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Speaker 1: I'm Steve Carrell, and I played Michael Scott on The Office. Well,

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Speaker 1: hello everyone, Yes it is time. It's the one you've

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Speaker 1: been waiting for. I'm sure. Well. First of all, welcome

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Speaker 1: to this week's episode of the Office Deep Dive. I

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Speaker 1: am your host, Brian Baumgartner. I got ahead of myself.

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Speaker 1: I could not be any more excited to present my

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Speaker 1: guest today, Mr Steve Carrell. Now, Steve was the star

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Speaker 1: of the two thousand seven comedy of an Almighty Alright, No,

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Speaker 1: but I mean talk about someone who truly needs no introduction,

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Speaker 1: which is probably a good thing, because there's literally no

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Speaker 1: way that I could put into words just how incredible

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Speaker 1: Steve is, even though it's like my job, my entire

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Speaker 1: job is just to put things into words, and I

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Speaker 1: clearly can't. Um, maybe this is the best way to

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Speaker 1: explain it. During this conversation, the one you're about to hear,

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Speaker 1: Steve basically said that it is so hard to talk

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Speaker 1: about The Office without hyperbole. That he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: be like it's the greatest or you know whatever, but honestly,

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Speaker 1: that is how I feel about Steve. It's really hard

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Speaker 1: to talk about Steve without hyperbole because He truly is

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Speaker 1: the absolute greatest. I could go on forever, and I

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Speaker 1: I kind of do in this conversation. So let me

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Speaker 1: just say this. I hope you enjoy this just as

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Speaker 1: much as I did. Here. He is the incomparable Steve

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Speaker 1: Correll bubble Qui, I love it bubble Quigan or bubble

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Speaker 1: and Squeaker cookie every month, lift over from the night before.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you that's so good? It's so good? God,

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Speaker 1: I know I was just saved your producer. Yes, where

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Speaker 1: do you you want me here? Oh my god? How

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Speaker 1: was life? I mean, sorry, I'm late. I know, I

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Speaker 1: literally just saw and I texted. I said, he's ten

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Speaker 1: minutes late. But that's now. So um, are you still

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Speaker 1: doing the thing where you because you bought the general store?

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Speaker 1: Right is that's that's still your? Okay? So I was

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Speaker 1: somewhere and New York or something and someone came up

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Speaker 1: and had something for me to sign somewhere. They knew

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Speaker 1: it clearly I was going to be and they had

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Speaker 1: this thing, and I said, oh, you got you got Steve?

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't. I don't normally see uh Steve,

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Speaker 1: And he said, once a year, you do a day?

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Speaker 1: Is this through your laughing. The year you do a

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Speaker 1: day where you sign at the general store, well they

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Speaker 1: every year this radio station does a little remote from

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Speaker 1: the porch of the general store and just to promote

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Speaker 1: the store, and my sister in law runs it, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a festive kick off of

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Speaker 1: summer thing. And I go and I do an interview

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Speaker 1: with them on the porch, and like ten fift people

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Speaker 1: would show up and watch it. And then if anyone,

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Speaker 1: you know, if anyone wanted an autographer a picture, R's

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Speaker 1: day and I do with that. So this guy claimed

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Speaker 1: he stayed for hours it this last year was because

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Speaker 1: there were a lot more people there, because I think

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Speaker 1: with the office, I think the fact that I'm and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you've talked a lot too many people about

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Speaker 1: exactly that. But boy, in the past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: that's changed, just that the tone of that has changed,

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Speaker 1: that that little get together. I mean, you're very, very

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Speaker 1: fancy movie star now, but much like how much is

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Speaker 1: it for you now? The office still oh most of it,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's right. Yeah. I um, I saw Creed

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Speaker 1: and on Space Force. I'm working with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: office and I think everyone feels that same sort of

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Speaker 1: It's just odd. It's odd that when we were doing

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Speaker 1: the show, and I'm sure you feel the same way,

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Speaker 1: we're sort of in a vacuum. To a certain extent.

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Speaker 1: I never got the sense that the show was a

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Speaker 1: hit by any means, or it was popular enough to

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Speaker 1: keep it on the air. But we didn't have people

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Speaker 1: hanging outside the sound stages. Very rarely, occasionally we'd have

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Speaker 1: a bogey stopped by, very very incredibly rare. Did that

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Speaker 1: ever happen? So um, and we around in the middle

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Speaker 1: of nowhere shooting the thing. So I think none of

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Speaker 1: us got a sense that, which was great because then

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Speaker 1: it was just about doing the show and having fun

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Speaker 1: and bonding and and doing good work. Everyone was so

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Speaker 1: committed to it. But yeah, these past couple of years,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you when I really noticed it was when

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Speaker 1: I was taking my daughter to her college. We we

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Speaker 1: did tours and and this was to two years ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was as popular on

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Speaker 1: college campuses that it seems to become. And it kind

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Speaker 1: of freaked my daughter out a little bit because it

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Speaker 1: became a bit of a thing. And you know, she

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Speaker 1: was fine, but I think that was the first I mean,

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Speaker 1: and that was just a couple of years ago, the

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Speaker 1: first sense that I got that it it had changed,

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Speaker 1: you know, that temperature had changed a bit. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, it's crazy because we were the

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Speaker 1: number one scripted show on NBC for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Were we were, but they had enough of any of it,

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Speaker 1: They had nothing, I guess. Yeah, but but it's so

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Speaker 1: much bigger now. Yeah, it's it's definitely changed and it's

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Speaker 1: you know, how can you not be happy about that

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Speaker 1: that people found it because I think when we were

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Speaker 1: doing it, we all felt it was special. We all

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Speaker 1: felt that there were there were elements of the show

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Speaker 1: that I feel like people have they see it um

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Speaker 1: more fully upon repeated viewing. Well, it was complex, and

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Speaker 1: I think more more so than I think people assumed

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Speaker 1: it was initially. I don't know. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: tout it too much because that's the other thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to sit back and say, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a classic, and it's this and that

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Speaker 1: and that's why people love it. I I'm I'm surprised

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Speaker 1: frankly that it had the second life that it seems

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Speaker 1: to have and people have. We've talked about it. I've

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Speaker 1: talked to Nancy about it, my wife about why, Well,

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Speaker 1: for starters, why was it able to stay on the

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Speaker 1: air in the first place, because it was a remake

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Speaker 1: of a very heralded show and it did not get

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Speaker 1: good reviews out of the block and everyone. I remember

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Speaker 1: before I auditioned, I was talking to Paul Rudd and

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Speaker 1: and I'd never seen the original one, and he asked

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Speaker 1: what I was up to. This was around I think

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Speaker 1: it was right after Anchor Man I was going to audition,

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Speaker 1: and I told him I was going to audition for

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Speaker 1: the American version of the Office, and he said, duc

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Speaker 1: don't do it bad Dad, move dude. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: never going to be as good like what everybody was saying.

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Speaker 1: So it's I think a miracle that it was that

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Speaker 1: it even lasted, you know, that first second season. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was like every we get two episodes, then

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Speaker 1: they'd move it up to six episodes, so the orders

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Speaker 1: weren't there was a lot of confidence in the show

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah. My favorite review, there's a

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Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of David bian Coolie. He wrote

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Speaker 1: the following This is after the pilot where Ricky Gervais

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Speaker 1: let the bosses insecurity shine through. Steve Carrell is all

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Speaker 1: noise and stupidity, like a sketch comedy character, not a

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Speaker 1: real person, not just foolish, but a fool. Yeah. He

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Speaker 1: was never I mean, he was never a fan of

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Speaker 1: the show. He never was. I know him. I don't

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Speaker 1: know him personally, but I know I've read other things

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Speaker 1: that he's written about the show, and it was I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know who he wrote for, but

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Speaker 1: that was It wasn't just him. I think it was

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Speaker 1: kind of that was pretty common. I think across the

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Speaker 1: board there was not a lot of critical love for

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Speaker 1: the show, which is interesting because I think we all

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Speaker 1: just disagreed. I think we felt like we were onto

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Speaker 1: something and it wasn't the British version, and it was

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Speaker 1: something unto itself. It was based on all of the

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Speaker 1: components that we're making it up. I think Greg daniels

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Speaker 1: Man one of I think his great talents is choosing people,

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Speaker 1: choosing people who have chemistry, both professionally and personally. Everybody

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Speaker 1: got along, I mean every people. We loved each other

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Speaker 1: on that show. I mean when I just walked in

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Speaker 1: a Zoe, I felt like crying. It's it's it was

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Speaker 1: such a special thing, I think to all of us,

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Speaker 1: and I think we're all very protective of it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, reviews, good, bad, it's it's okay totally. People

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Speaker 1: have their own opinions and they're entitled to them, and

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Speaker 1: I you can't take any of that too seriously. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, I think we all had confidence

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Speaker 1: that we were doing doing something good and doing something

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Speaker 1: of value. From Diversity Day, I remember sitting in that

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Speaker 1: conference room going, if people give this thing a shot,

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Speaker 1: this is funny, and it's doing something different. It's looking

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Speaker 1: at the world outside in an interesting and complex way. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you how do you feel like the show reflected

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Speaker 1: the outside world, you know, in terms of like Diversity

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Speaker 1: Day or gay witch Hunt or well. Starting with the

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Speaker 1: quality of our writing staff those first few seasons, especially

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Speaker 1: before everyone became big deals and went off to their

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Speaker 1: own shows, I mean, that's what happens. You get you

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Speaker 1: get these great people like Mindy Kaling and Mike Sure,

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Speaker 1: and we had a ton of them. We had a

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Speaker 1: really really deep bench of writers. And when you have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are that funny and that's smart. Um.

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Speaker 1: For me, the hardest part of it was servicing the script,

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Speaker 1: making sure I didn't because I get I get dialogue

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Speaker 1: every day and think, I, I can't screw this up

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Speaker 1: because it and it and I knew it had to

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Speaker 1: be delivered in in just the right way because or

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Speaker 1: otherwise you're not servicing this great writing. So I think

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Speaker 1: that I think and I think we all felt that

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Speaker 1: there was a responsibility to get it right because the

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Speaker 1: writer the writing was so consistent in terms of how

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Speaker 1: it reflected society, but to do it in a way

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Speaker 1: that wasn't too heavy handed and felt organic to what

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Speaker 1: we were doing his characters. And that was the other

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Speaker 1: great part of having Run. I mean, I was there

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Speaker 1: for seven years. You were there for nine too, to

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Speaker 1: be able to tracy evolution of a character and have

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Speaker 1: something in mind and be able to talk to the

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Speaker 1: writers and talk to Greg Daniels and say, what if

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Speaker 1: next season my character went in this direction, and and

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Speaker 1: then it happened. Um, And I think everyone trusted each

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Speaker 1: other to such a such a degree that you know,

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Speaker 1: that was pete that they were. They were willing to,

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Speaker 1: you know, not be too precious about anything. And I

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Speaker 1: think it became better because of that. Greg told me

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Speaker 1: something I did not know this, Maybe you knew this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously. One thing that he did that was

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Speaker 1: unique was he sort of tried to obliterate the barriers

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Speaker 1: between the writer's room and and the actors. And because

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Speaker 1: he said, for him, this show was about behavior, and

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Speaker 1: you can't right behavior. You can't write body posture, you

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Speaker 1: can't write a specific look on your face, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was so interesting. That's really smart. I know I

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Speaker 1: never heard that, but it completely makes sense. And the

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Speaker 1: fact that so many of the writers were actors on

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Speaker 1: the show, not just watching. Another thing I liked was

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Speaker 1: that when we were on set, it was pretty much

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Speaker 1: just us and the camera crew and the director all

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Speaker 1: the time, so it felt as close to what we

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Speaker 1: were supposed to be doing. Um, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: as close to doing a documentary without actually doing one

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Speaker 1: as it could feel. But yeah, having writers there and

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Speaker 1: seeing how the actor's work and maybe tweak a line

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Speaker 1: or improvise and find something, and to have you know,

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Speaker 1: to have Mindy, to have Paul, to have b j

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Speaker 1: all there not just as actors but as fuel and

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Speaker 1: and having incredible suggestions or ideas or or things to

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Speaker 1: throw in rewrites. I mean, I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: footage there is on the cutting room floor, but you

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Speaker 1: could edit an entire season for sure, of of stories,

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Speaker 1: whole storylines that were cut out that we're hilarious and

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Speaker 1: we're just cut for time. I mean, our scripts were long,

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Speaker 1: and our first cuts of things they had to be

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Speaker 1: what twenty minutes, and they'd have thirty five minute cuts,

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Speaker 1: their first cut, forty minute cuts. Sometimes they just split

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Speaker 1: them in half and we'd have two shows. That happened

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Speaker 1: a couple of times. Do you remember was there anything

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Speaker 1: for you that you recall that was cut? People ask like,

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Speaker 1: was there anything that was cut either a story or

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Speaker 1: I mean, I there, No, I'm I don't. I just don't. No.

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Speaker 1: I mean I would see things in there and think, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember we shot that. That's right, I know.

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Speaker 1: I recently we went back and watched the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Claire Scanlin told me the story, which I certainly did

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Speaker 1: not remember. But there was an episode where Jim and

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Speaker 1: Pam are fighting, and the episode came in and it

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Speaker 1: was really long, and someone had the idea, well, let's

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Speaker 1: just make it a silent fight and it's just going

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Speaker 1: to be about looks like we're not going to have them,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna cut any exchange between the two of them,

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Speaker 1: and the episode is just going to exist as a

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Speaker 1: silent fight throughout the whole thing. And at the very end,

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Speaker 1: just as they're walking out to their car, they hold

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Speaker 1: hands and it just like flips the whole thing, but

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Speaker 1: the entire story that had been written and was just gone.

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Speaker 1: That's such a great That's a great move though, and

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Speaker 1: probably so much more powerful than all the dialogue they

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Speaker 1: could have said, you know, because that that passive, aggressive,

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Speaker 1: that subtle silent between couples can speak volumes. Not that

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Speaker 1: I would have any personal knowledge of that. I'm just

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Speaker 1: saying as a writer an actor. Um, but yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a great move. And I think they did stuff like

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Speaker 1: that all the time. You know, those editors, We had

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Speaker 1: some great, great people, and so much of the story

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Speaker 1: obviously is told there, and I felt like our job

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Speaker 1: was just to supply them with as much fodder for

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Speaker 1: whatever it was going to become. But I didn't get

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Speaker 1: precious about anything, because I just knew again it's just

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Speaker 1: a matter of trust. I trusted Greg and Dave and

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Speaker 1: Claire and I trusted everyone in the cast and all

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Speaker 1: of those writers. That's such a great environment to work

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Speaker 1: in when you just know, do your job and they're

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Speaker 1: going to take it and crafted into something that works.

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Speaker 1: And I think everyone did that everyone. So the level

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Speaker 1: I don't think what people no necessarily is that as much,

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Speaker 1: if not more than anything I've ever worked on. The

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Speaker 1: universal level of commitment on that show, across the board, actors, writers, crew,

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Speaker 1: people were in and it's rare, but I think we

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Speaker 1: all sensed it, we all knew And it's not like

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Speaker 1: the show. We we were never a friends, we were

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Speaker 1: never We were always sort of the the outcast, you know,

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Speaker 1: the little engine for sure, and we got those kind

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Speaker 1: of reviews we never you know, there were never articles

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Speaker 1: written about the office back then. But I personally so

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Speaker 1: proud of the fact that, in spite of all of

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Speaker 1: the negativity that I think kind of surrounded it, at

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Speaker 1: least at first, that group was completely committed a hundred.

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Speaker 1: I I feel like we all sort of it was

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Speaker 1: like we came up together, which which helped us form

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Speaker 1: a very unique bond. I completely agree the relationships between

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Speaker 1: all of us um and again doing this other show

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Speaker 1: that I'm doing now. Just being able to work with

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Speaker 1: you know, five six, seven people that I had worked

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Speaker 1: with for seven years, what fifteen years ago? It just

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Speaker 1: try it just goes from one thing to the other

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Speaker 1: because there is there is that commonality, there is that

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Speaker 1: that sense of we we came up together. It's so

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Speaker 1: hard to talk about it without hyperbole, too, because I

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Speaker 1: find myself like, it's the great you know. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to I don't want to touted too much. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to put too much emphasis on how how

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Speaker 1: great we all think it was. But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: people can judge whatever the show is and how are

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Speaker 1: they like it, and they'll upon repeated viewings, they you know,

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Speaker 1: if they find all of this stuff in it, and

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Speaker 1: that is great. But from a personal perspective, having worked

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Speaker 1: on it was the joy like having these friendships and

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Speaker 1: that work experience. I knew when I was doing it

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Speaker 1: that this was going it. Nothing was going to be

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Speaker 1: better than this as a work experience. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: whether it would be the best thing I'd ever be

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Speaker 1: a part of, or I knew it would be hard

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Speaker 1: to top, certainly, But but just in terms of a

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Speaker 1: personal experience and the rewards from that, nothing will ever

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Speaker 1: come close to it. Yeah, And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: for me, certainly, I don't want to go into hyperbole either,

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Speaker 1: but I think trying to at least examine the question

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Speaker 1: of why, you know, we were so close. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: because we came up together. And to me, the the

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Speaker 1: other element was we had such a wide range of experience,

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Speaker 1: you know, like and myself, for example, we were like

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Speaker 1: doing check off the month before, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like that and improv and stand up and sort of

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Speaker 1: all of those experiences. Bill has told me the story.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know if you've ever heard this.

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Speaker 1: She got cast. She came in and she was watching

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Speaker 1: everybody improv and she said, I can't do that. So

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Speaker 1: the first season she went on her way home, drove

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Speaker 1: to the bookstore and bought books on improv, and we're

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Speaker 1: reading books she did. I never knew that. I'd never

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Speaker 1: do that either. That's shocking to me because I always

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Speaker 1: thought she was so pure, so good, like one of

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Speaker 1: the best improvisers of any of us, because it was

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Speaker 1: everything was completely honest, and she just listened and she

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Speaker 1: would just respond within character. That's what it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the crux of it. Wow that I I

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Speaker 1: think all those things you say are true. I think

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Speaker 1: the fact that Greg was able to cast people that

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Speaker 1: it's just the chemistry was there. People genuinely cared about

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Speaker 1: each other because there were there were times that people

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Speaker 1: would be in the background for hours and just be

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Speaker 1: seen like in profile, while other scenes were taking place

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Speaker 1: in the foreground. And I never ever heard one complaint

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Speaker 1: by anyone. You know, it was to me, it was

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Speaker 1: the true definition of an ensemble. More than anything. I

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Speaker 1: think that's why it worked is because there were no

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone wanted to stick out in any way.

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Speaker 1: I think everyone just felt a joy in being part

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Speaker 1: of that unit. When we come back, our executive producer

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Speaker 1: Ben Silverman joins our unit for a conversation about the

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Speaker 1: structure of the show and a little thing called the

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Speaker 1: director sandwich. I was talking to a couple of people

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Speaker 1: just about I had a French director I worked with

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Speaker 1: for a while that he taught me that the comedy

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Speaker 1: exists off the beat. It happens either quicker or it

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Speaker 1: takes longer that that pause. But did you never land

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Speaker 1: it right on the beat? I feel like our show

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Speaker 1: did really well on that. There was you know, for example,

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Speaker 1: a bad joke that then you get a reaction from Jim,

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Speaker 1: that then you get a reaction from somebody, and the

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Speaker 1: laugh could go sort of at any place. And there

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Speaker 1: was a lot going on between the lines there, and

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Speaker 1: the writers were aware of that. They were aware of

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Speaker 1: the pauses. They were aware of like at the end

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Speaker 1: of it it was Office Olympics. There's a scene We're

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Speaker 1: all getting our ten awards and the yogurt. The yogurt,

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Speaker 1: and I remember that turned into a really emotional moment

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Speaker 1: from Michael Scott because someone was giving him an award

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Speaker 1: and it was important in that moment, And I was

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Speaker 1: talking to Greg about this, and I don't think any

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Speaker 1: of us realized until we started doing it that that

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Speaker 1: scene was going to have that sort of emotional and

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Speaker 1: comedic residence because it wasn't scripted. It was just this

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Speaker 1: moment where Jim looks at Michael and realizes this is

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Speaker 1: a big deal, and Michael starts to cry out of

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Speaker 1: joy and pride, and it it turned into something very different.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of the for for my character,

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Speaker 1: part of the trick was to not let on where

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Speaker 1: the jokes were because Michael generally wouldn't He wouldn't know,

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't have an awareness that anything he was saying

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Speaker 1: was funny unless he was trying to be funny. So

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Speaker 1: to try to mask the absurdity of the line within

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Speaker 1: somebody just believing it and not commenting on it as

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Speaker 1: an actor while you say it, not not leaning into

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Speaker 1: the joke of the line. I think that was something

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Speaker 1: that was really tricky. Did the production style help you

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Speaker 1: do that? For sure? The way the way that that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't is the production style helped everything, um, because

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Speaker 1: there wasn't that. It wasn't intricate. The lighting took five

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Speaker 1: minutes and we all looked terrible all the time, so

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Speaker 1: there was no vanity involved me. That's why the networks

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Speaker 1: didn't like it. Probably we all looked like real people

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Speaker 1: and we were up. We came out of the bay

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Speaker 1: Watch age, you know, we were like we were born

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Speaker 1: of the last part. We were not. But to kind

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Speaker 1: of throw away all the vanity too was very you know,

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Speaker 1: that was great because no one was worried about getting

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Speaker 1: touched up all the time. We were just kind of

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Speaker 1: in our character is in doing our thing, and that

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Speaker 1: not what the show is predicated on, and so in

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Speaker 1: that sense, I think it felt more like a documentary

390
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Speaker 1: to Linda. Authenticity and reality and then the performance, I

391
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Speaker 1: mean the other level, just the camera as a character,

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Speaker 1: as an entirely other layer of comedy that doesn't exist

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Speaker 1: even if you're just playing out a scene. In other words,

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Speaker 1: your awareness as a character. You have your own behavior

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Speaker 1: and your intention with this character, but you also are

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Speaker 1: either playing to the camera or hiding from the camera.

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Speaker 1: It's been the bane of my existence since I've left

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Speaker 1: thee Yeah, I'm sure I revert to the other two

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Speaker 1: in everything I've done since the office. At least once,

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Speaker 1: I will inadvertently do a take to the camera and

401
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: I do it, and then I think, why did I

402
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Speaker 1: just do that? I do too. I mean, obviously we

403
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Speaker 1: can't use it because we're not doing it documentary here. Yeah,

404
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: you just break that walk. But it's such a weird

405
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Speaker 1: it's a havoc do you do with the family, and

406
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Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to break. I'm sure on Fox Catcher

407
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Speaker 1: I did a take to the camera, well, maybe not appropriated.

408
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Speaker 1: Did you say this or did Greg say this to you?

409
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Speaker 1: There was some discussion about the essence of Michael Scott

410
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Speaker 1: playing to the camera was Michael believing that if he

411
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Speaker 1: did a really good job, that maybe Jennifer Anniston would

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Speaker 1: go out with him. Do you remember that, I don't

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Speaker 1: don't actually remember. Sounds good. Somebody said that, like the

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Speaker 1: early one, I can't remember if it was beguiling the

415
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: camera gets discovered, but you think you're funny, you think

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Speaker 1: you're charming, you put your foot in it, but you

417
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Speaker 1: think that you're like, oh, wasn't that a good one? Subtext? Yeah, exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know who I think was the one of the

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Speaker 1: best right off the bat was Amy Adams. I remember

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Speaker 1: when she came in to do her first episode because

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Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a tricky thing that looked to

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00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: the camera and and how hard you play it or

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00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: how subtly you play it, but she had it down.

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Speaker 1: I remember that first episode. She because she was aware

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Speaker 1: of the camera, but she played it in a very

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Speaker 1: different way, like because she was an outsider. She didn't

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Speaker 1: do there like did you just record what I just said?

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Speaker 1: There's like I'd forgotten that you're there, and now I

429
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: know you're there, and there's like all this other stuff

430
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: going on. So the camera. Yeah, the camera really you

431
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: could always use it, you know, and it was for

432
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: Michael it was free reign, you know, because he could

433
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: always be on and when the camera was documenting things

434
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: that were more vulnerable that he didn't want the camera

435
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: to see. Uh, you know, you could show the fragility

436
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: of the character as well, and not wanting to be

437
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: captured or kind of assuming a different character to cover

438
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: the fragility that you know, was intrinsic to him. So

439
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: that camera as a character added I think a depth

440
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: to all of the characters. It's a reflection I think

441
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: of what you want the public to see as opposed

442
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: to what is the reality of the situation or the

443
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: reality of the person. The layering of of all of that. Also,

444
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: as you were talking, I was thinking one of the

445
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: things that's so arresting now when you go into our

446
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: show in the world digitally of a thousand shows, and

447
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: you just see we feel black and white, you know,

448
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: we feel almost spa and like analog, you know, and

449
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 1: all of that, and yet it has so much more

450
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: of an honesty and connectivity. But I think what that

451
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: does is it frames the performance and that kind of thing.

452
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: It lets the face and the performance and the pathos

453
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: and the comedy. I'll play through character because it's not

454
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: the bells and whistles and everything jumping around. So much

455
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: of that was just the ensemble nature of it too,

456
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: that it's like it's like a great it's like an orchestra,

457
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: you know, there to know when to fade back and

458
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: allow the brass section to go, you know, and it's

459
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: their soul, where it's the violins or it's it's such

460
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: a stupid analogy, but allowing everyone to shine and everyone

461
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: to have their moment. I didn't feel like there were

462
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: all these separate components bouncing off each other. It was

463
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: like this one group energy that moved through all of

464
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: those years together and and it morphed into different shapes,

465
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: but it was all We couldn't lose any components of

466
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: that because it morphed as a whole. It was a

467
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe that's getting too deep into it,

468
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: but but that's the way I felt about that ensemble,

469
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: is that everyone was so strong and so vital to

470
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: the life of the whole thing. The show could shift

471
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: on a dime based on one thing that one character introduces,

472
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: and it might be it might be a line that

473
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: was scripted. It might have been something improvised, but everyone

474
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: else would shift with it and you could feel it,

475
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: you know, well like being a good interviewer on the radio.

476
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: You can tell there's a give and take and allowing

477
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: for space, and it's a it's a real talent, it's

478
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: a real ability. And I think all of that cast

479
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: had that same ability to sense where it was all going,

480
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: where next? And it was that was so exciting. Yeah,

481
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: it's funny too because people talk, and which is all

482
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: true about the ensemble expanding as time went on and

483
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 1: we got into more stories of other characters, and other

484
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: characters were able to shine, that's true. And pretty much

485
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: everybody did something in Diverse any Day, which is the

486
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 1: second episode, and you know almost everybody has a joke

487
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 1: or a moment um. It was being built early and

488
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: I think Ken and Greg those guys, um, do you

489
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: remember the U thirty minutes of busy work, oh early on? Yeah,

490
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: that that's so his thing, right down to how he

491
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: starts to see. He doesn't say action. He says go

492
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: ahead in the most in the most calm inviting way,

493
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah, I will say, like to give him ship.

494
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: It becomes funny to me because he has the it's

495
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: not just to go ahead, it's the uh go ahead

496
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: like he like he always pretends as though he's about

497
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: to say something, and then what you know, after the time,

498
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: you go, man, you're not. You can't fool me anymore.

499
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: We ever talked about the director Sandwich? No, have you

500
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: ever heard of this? I don't know where I heard

501
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: this from, but it is like clockwork. It is the

502
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: experience I've had on every show with every director, and

503
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've had the same experience. Okay, director Sandwich, Sandwich,

504
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: the director Sandwich. The first layer of bread is the

505
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: first compliment. Director comes in, it's going great. We love it.

506
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: Everybody back there loves what you're doing. The meat or

507
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: the filling is the note. Maybe you could pick it

508
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: up and um and maybe a little more touch of energy.

509
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: And the last piece of bread is the second compliment.

510
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: But we love it. You're doing great. Just do what

511
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: you're doing and we're just have fun. Every director does

512
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: exactly this. Just I mean, as soon as that's in

513
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: your head, you will always be aware of that. Now

514
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: like oh okay, now, where where is this? What is

515
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: the meat here? What is the note? The producer, sandwich

516
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: is no meat? Great job you do? You do you? Ever?

517
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: This is sort of off topic, but it's now. It's

518
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: fascinating to me when you're in a scene and you

519
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: get the first layer of bread, Great job, really really

520
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: doing well, um, Dave, and then turns to the other guy, right,

521
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a part of you that's like,

522
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: wasn't me? Was everything I must be doing okay? And

523
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: then they give the meat to Dave and then there's

524
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: but you know, it's really it's really working well, and

525
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: then it's take two. Director comes back again. Great job, Dave, Right, Yes,

526
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. I've been Dave before. Sure,

527
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: I have been Dave. We all don't want to be Dave,

528
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: but we have all been Dad. But it's almost worse

529
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: when you're not Dave. But it's even worse than that

530
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: is when you are taking a scene and then you're

531
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: seeing partner, when you're trying to get it going again

532
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: and try to figure out how you're gonna save your

533
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: lousy performance. You're seen partner in a very gracious and

534
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: lovely way, says, is there anything I can do to help?

535
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: Anything I can do from my side? Like, oh no,

536
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: now now I'm really gave oh day, and they're just

537
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: being nice. Can I give you something to give you

538
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: something more than I'm giving so your performance is adequate

539
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: And we come back Steve and I kicked Ben out

540
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: of the studio to get into the true psyche of

541
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: Michael Scott. There there's a question I've never asked you.

542
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: This is my memory at least going back right. You

543
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: remember the differently and we would have a seven eight

544
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: page conference room scene and we would come into rehearse

545
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: and you would like kind of flip through your pages

546
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: and you weren't playing a part like the absent minded professor,

547
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: but my that this was like my right, It was

548
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: just like, oh wait, what are we here? How okay,

549
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm standing in the front of like the idea of

550
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: like you had no idea what was going on? And

551
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: we would do it once maybe and be like okay,

552
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: do we have it? Okay? Good, and you would go

553
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: away and it was like you would finish putting on

554
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: your suit and then we would start rolling and it

555
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: was all there was that intentional for you, was there? No?

556
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: I mean, but I mean, like, were you like in retrospect,

557
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: I started thinking, oh, as an improver, he wants it

558
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: to be as fresh as possible. Though at times and

559
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: also got annoying that you were attempting to bring the

560
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: group to a place where like you were trying to

561
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: make them laugh. It was that intentional. Was that sometimes

562
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: I think we all tried to make each other last.

563
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: Of course, um in turn, boy to me, there's nothing

564
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: more boring than listening to myself talk about process. But

565
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: but that's there. But I'm truly curious. I will tell well,

566
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: just based on the page count every day, and and

567
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: also on how quickly lines changed, we could have rewrites

568
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: the morning up. So I just didn't have time to

569
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: memorize stuff the night before because they'd be you go

570
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: home and after yeah, I go to bed and wake

571
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: up and and be in the next day and and

572
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: sort of get into that day's work. But I think

573
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: it became fairly easy to remember stuff because of the

574
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: right because I think they tuned into every character's voice,

575
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: and they really wrote the dialogue within those voices, and

576
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: it is infinitely easier to remember lines when they make

577
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: sense within your character. So sometimes I would just have

578
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: to look at these long, chunky scenes and I put

579
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: the blocks together in terms of Okay, where are you know,

580
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: where are kind of our joke beats, and where are

581
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: you know where our story beats? And and what's shoe leather?

582
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: And and just kind of trying to process that and

583
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: then then not think about it, just kind of trying

584
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: to lock in the structure of it and then just

585
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: play the scene. And that was the joy of of

586
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: how loose it all was when we got in there

587
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: to shoot, too, because we'd have two cameras covering everything.

588
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: If you got something well, once you got it from

589
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: two separate angles, you have cutting points. You know, an

590
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: editor's dream really, because everything was covered at least by

591
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: two cameras. There was never oh, so and so said

592
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: something funny, but it was you know, it was a

593
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: single on somebody else, and then to try to go

594
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: back and recreate whatever it happened. They were picking up

595
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and so when things things happen

596
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: in real time, generally they were able to get it

597
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: um So there's a comfort in that too, knowing that

598
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: it's not like you were going to have to generate

599
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: it many many times over, and you could make every

600
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: take different. You didn't have to necessarily match what you

601
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: did the first time you could play with it, and

602
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: as actors, we could all throw stuff in and and

603
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: try it different, you know, beat for the ending or

604
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 1: um try some you know, some different dialogue. But in

605
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: terms of yeah, those those long scenes, I just I

606
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: just didn't want to waste anybody's time either, because if

607
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: I had fumfered through all of those things, and I

608
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: tried to put enough pressure on myself to lock into it,

609
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, and try to not make everybody stay for

610
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: because I can't remember the big speech at the end

611
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: of the thing. Yeah, yeah, but that's part of it.

612
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: I mean, just just out of respect for everybody. Of course,

613
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: of course that was always just very impressive. That's it.

614
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not no, I'm not saying anything nice, um,

615
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: but but no, it was. I often wondered about that.

616
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: I mean, Rain Wilson, Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

617
00:39:52,000 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: The two of you together was so stupid, so so stupid,

618
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: but so funny. I recently went back and watched, I

619
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: went start to finish. I hadn't gone back at all

620
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: since they aired, And just the dynamic between the two

621
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: of you, it's like when you're in grade school and

622
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: there's the cool kids, right, the Ryan and Jim, and

623
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: you want to be friends with them, and then you've

624
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 1: got the kind of slightly more nerdy friend of yours

625
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: that wants to be when you're like, just call me

626
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: after school. You don't play with you later because I'm

627
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: trying to get in. I don't know. There was just

628
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: something about the dynamic between you two. He called you

629
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: a Picasso of improv. Oh my gosh, but I mean, well,

630
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: he you know, I remember auditioning with rain and we

631
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: instantly we're making each other laugh, like right from the start.

632
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: And I'll crack up as much as anyone, but I

633
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: try not to because I always feel like if I laugh,

634
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: it's going to ruin that whatever they're doing is so funny,

635
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: and if I crack up, it's unusable. But there there

636
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: are there are times that I'm sure you can watch

637
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: the show and just see tears welling in my eyes.

638
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: That was one of the hardest That was one of

639
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: the hardest things was to not you know, to not

640
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: lose it. Raindom. He's such an interesting, just an interesting

641
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: human being. He's he's such a kind, he's such a

642
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: dichotomy because he is he's an incredibly loving and kind

643
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: and gentle, like cares, truly, truly care, someone who cares

644
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 1: about the universe in a far reaching way, and a

645
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: much much better person than I am. But at the

646
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: same time the biggest mudgeon like crass, rude, rudinous, rude,

647
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: like unfiltered honesty, and yes, just gross sexual for no reason.

648
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: But gosh, he's He's a great guy. And there's a

649
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: scene towards the end when Dwight reads the letter of

650
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: reference from Michael Scott that just puts a pretty fine

651
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: point on their relationship after all of the stuff that

652
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 1: Michael has put Dwight through. At his core, he just

653
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: he he loves he loves him and appreciates him, and

654
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: understands how loyal he had been that entire time, and

655
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: had for the greater part of the series, had really

656
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: been his only advocate, and my iCal for sure understood

657
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: that he didn't make He might have resented it. He

658
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: White might have wanted more. You know, he could be

659
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: very petty and immature, but but at the same time,

660
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: in that moment, you know certainly acknowledges how important White

661
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: is to him. Do you, as an actor, do you

662
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: always search for the good and the character that you're portraying. Sure,

663
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: I think you have to because otherwise you're just demonizing

664
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: or judging the people that you're playing. And if you're

665
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: judging a character that you're playing, you're gonna play it differently.

666
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: You don't want to editorialize about a character plan I think.

667
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: I think Michael's a decent a decent dude with a

668
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: lot of heart. But he's so based on his childhood,

669
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: based on all sorts of things and things that he

670
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: had lacked growing up, things that he was I felt

671
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: he was deprived of. He was so hungry forks sceptence,

672
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: but I don't think he had the strongest templates in

673
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: the world to go by. But I think he also

674
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: learned and evolved and um became a better person along

675
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: the way. And he was just a bit a bit

676
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: myopic and became more aware once he sort of was

677
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: able to start stepping outside of himself and his own

678
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: little eccentricities, he could see a little bit more about

679
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: the world around him. I think one of the things

680
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: about Michael is he's actually this and in terms of

681
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: my interpretation of him, I feel like he would look

682
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 1: out at all the people who worked with him, and

683
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: it's like he would put his foot in his mouth

684
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: all the time. But in a lot of ways, I

685
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: don't think he ever valued one person or type of

686
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: person over any other. And in that way, I think

687
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: he was very pure character, because he's very dumb in

688
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: terms of political correctness and being appropriate in public. But

689
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't I just don't think

690
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: there was hardness in his heart towards anyone. He I

691
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: think a person with an enormously good, kind heart, who

692
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: lacked a great deal of information about the world around him,

693
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: and was as a sleep in a woke world as

694
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: you could be, but trying his best, trying his best.

695
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: And actually there's a difference between being intolerant and being ignorant,

696
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: and and sometimes intolerance and ignorance go hand in hand,

697
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: for sure they do. But I think he was a

698
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: decent human being. Really, he just didn't get it all

699
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: the time. Um, the show was happening my mom and dad,

700
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: they had friends and they would say, we can't watch

701
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: that show like that, Michael Scott. He key makes me

702
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: too uncomfortable. I can't watch that. And I always felt

703
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: that this was came from a place of deep insecurity

704
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 1: or like misogynistic or racist or homophobic feelings within themselves,

705
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: like that's why it was uncomfortable at times. And then

706
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: you came out thanks a lot for saying this. I

707
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 1: get asked about it all the time that the show

708
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: could never be made now. This was not exactly what

709
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: I said. Okay, well, that's great, because I have always

710
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: said that I thought that Steve was misquoted in this.

711
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it could be

712
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: made now. Maybe it could. I guess my point was

713
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: that I think what I was trying to say was

714
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: that that exact same show probably wouldn't be made today,

715
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: but with the same components, the same actors, the same writers.

716
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: If it were to come back, it would evolve into

717
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: the version of what we did back then. I mean,

718
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: I think the writing would be a bit different in

719
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: today's climate, but I don't think it would be any

720
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: less insightful. I don't think it would be any less

721
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: smart or any less funny. It would just be different,

722
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: that's all. And I do think it would be different,

723
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, Michael Scott would be much

724
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: more tuned into what it is to be woke. He

725
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: would not understand it necessarily, but he would be the

726
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: comedy would be coming from his struggle to understand and

727
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: fit into the world as we know it today, because

728
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 1: the world as we knew it fifteen years ago is

729
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: different than it is today. But you know, you take

730
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: that same character who is trying to speak the language

731
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: of modern times, that can be very funny, but it

732
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 1: would just be different. It would just be a different

733
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: set of rules for today. But I don't know, I um,

734
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think it's easy to say

735
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: that you can't be funny, you can't do comedy this

736
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: day and age. I think that's a bit of a

737
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: cop out because every you know, every time you turn around,

738
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: there is somebody coming up with something that is of

739
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: the time and inventive and doesn't shirk away from our

740
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: responsibility to look in the mirror. I think it just

741
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: I think it just takes a level of intelligence to

742
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: be able to do that. Yeah, here's my other theory,

743
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: just in terms of like why the show is so

744
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: popular today and especially with younger people and me going

745
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: back and watching it, and it doesn't feel dated. And

746
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: Greg was so adamant about the realistic elements of the

747
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: way people looked and that it felt lived in and

748
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: the way that it shot, I feel like it maybe

749
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: subconsciously people are they obviously no, it's not a documentary,

750
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: but that it's just about this time in this place. Well,

751
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: I think it's because of what you said before. It's

752
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: about behavior. It's about human behavior, and human behavior is

753
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,839
Speaker 1: pretty universal and doesn't change a whole lot. You know,

754
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: the question has gone around so often about why the

755
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 1: resurgence and popularity? Why is it? Why does it seem

756
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: to be more popular now than it was back then?

757
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: But beyond that, why do twelve and thirteen year olds

758
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: and ten year olds? Why do they like it? That

759
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 1: was always a shock to make. Shocker because when we

760
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: were making the show, I thought, well, people who have

761
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: worked in an office environment have a context. I can

762
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: get it. I you know, I think they'd have something

763
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: that they could find in here. But the fact that

764
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: not only I mean not even teenagers, but like like preteens.

765
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 1: Apparently Billie Eilish is a big fan and has been

766
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: for years, and I got a note from her and

767
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: we've corresponded a little bit, and it's shocking that you know,

768
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: the this gener at god, I sound like I'm eighty

769
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: years old, but these younger generations, and it almost seems

770
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: to have been passed down from their older siblings too.

771
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't, but you know, I try

772
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: not to even question it too much because it's a

773
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: miracle that the show still gets the kind of attention

774
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: that it does. I don't when is when are people

775
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 1: going to get sick of it? Like? When? When? When

776
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: does the shoe drop? And then it's just when does

777
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: the backlash start? That's my question is that when when

778
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 1: when this comes out? Probably actually know it's the week before,

779
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: the week before. It's just done, you know what. I

780
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: just we all were so lucky. I think that permeates

781
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: the whole vibe of the show too, because we knew

782
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 1: we were all hanging by a thread and we were

783
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: just going to enjoy it, and no one there was

784
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: no cockiness at all, no air against Everybody was just

785
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: happy to be employed and working with this group and

786
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 1: kind of clinging to each other because we also knew

787
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: that this is a once in a lifetime conglomeration of

788
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: people and let's enjoy it. I mean, as an actor,

789
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: to have an experience like that, you know, we're lucky

790
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 1: if we just get to work and and get paid

791
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: and make a living. Come on, that's like, that's all

792
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: any of us wanted. That's the other thing that I

793
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: think was baseline for everyone on that show. Really all

794
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: we wanted to do was make livings as actors. No,

795
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: I think no one aspired to anything beyond that, and

796
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 1: so there was complete contentment in in what we had there.

797
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: But I would add to that that that is what

798
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: people wanted, was to make a living as an actor.

799
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: And at the same time that we felt so lucky

800
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: that we were actually able to make a living on

801
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: something that was actually good that people cared about that

802
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: then took it to like completely agree. I, um, you

803
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,439
Speaker 1: you you haven't died. Okay, I'm just gonna say that.

804
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: And it's very difficult for me to be over overly nice,

805
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: but there is something that that I need you to

806
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: hear that. Um, when Michael left and you left, you

807
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: left at the same time, weird coincided. It was so bizarre.

808
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 1: It's like, where's Michael Steve left earlier today? But um,

809
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: it needs to be acknowledged that, you know, for us,

810
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: Michael Scott was an amazing creation, but you were equally special.

811
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: That's really nice of you to say, Um, well, it was.

812
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 1: It was a special group and to find that dynamic,

813
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: you know, actors, a TV show, you know, throwing all

814
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: of that aside, just to have a group of people

815
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: that you care so much about and and you can't

816
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 1: wait to see the next day. I tend to do

817
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: that though. Rear wise, I tend to leave. And I've

818
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: done this a few times. I left Second City when

819
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: it just was it was the best job in the world.

820
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine it being any better. I was having

821
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: the most fun of my life. I gotta go. I

822
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: gotta go because I don't want to get comfortable. And

823
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: I did the same thing on the Daily Show. I

824
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: was there for four years or so, and okay, this

825
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: is perfect. And Nancy, my wife, we're both correspondents, this

826
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 1: is fantastic, love it. We're having a ball, and we

827
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: both decided up, I gotta go, you know, we get

828
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: let's just keep it moving on. And and I sort

829
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: of did the same thing on the Office, like it

830
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: like you don't want it to and maybe it's maybe

831
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: it's out of fear. Maybe maybe it's like you don't

832
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: want it to turn a corner in any way. You

833
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: don't want it to be any in any way less

834
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: than it ever was. Um, So maybe that's maybe that's

835
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:57,919
Speaker 1: something about me that you know, I should examine, see

836
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: somebody about. But it's so so. Maybe it's a defense

837
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 1: mechanism that way. But I was just so proud to

838
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: be part of it, and it was very difficult for

839
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: me to leave, um because I loved everybody. Um. I

840
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: didn't start by asking this because it didn't occur to me.

841
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: And then people started talking, and I've been asking people

842
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 1: what was the greater loss? Was it Steve or was

843
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: it Michael Scott? And two stories have come up a

844
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 1: number of times. One I haven't heard. I want to

845
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 1: share this with you, Mike Sure. Um he said this.

846
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 1: There was a budgetary meeting and they were trying to

847
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 1: slash budget because they were always trying to slash the budget,

848
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 1: and one of the things on the table was reducing

849
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: the size of the cast. I can't remember who was there,

850
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 1: but there were executives in the room and Steve, who

851
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: was a producer at the time, said nope, nope, nope, no, no,

852
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: Like he said no eight times in a row, it's

853
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 1: not happening. That is not going to happen, and it

854
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: just shut it down, shut it down forever, and no

855
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: one ever brought it up again. And I think that

856
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 1: everybody felt that from you, that the ensemble was so

857
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: important to you. And I don't even hope there's a question.

858
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: I it was. It was a really it was a

859
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 1: very strong thing inside of me, that group, and I

860
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: felt very protective of everybody. But I think everyone felt

861
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: that way, you know, standing up too, like no one

862
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: was going to put any one of us down in

863
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: any way. But I got that sense from not just

864
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: the cast, but the crew and the writers and all

865
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: the producers. Is again, it sounds like such a crock

866
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: And you know, if I sound like I'm accepting, as

867
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: I said, you've died, and it's not. It's no, it's

868
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: not that, but it's and look, it's part of it

869
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: is that you said, like, no, these were the guys

870
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: who were here, this is our show. Can you imagine?

871
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine at that point? And I

872
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: wasn't a producer until a few years in we were

873
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: down the road that had to be like season four,

874
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: So I mean, no, there's no way, like what No,

875
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: it didn't make sense, um, unless people wanted to move on,

876
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: unless they're but for finance. That's the other thing, the budgetary.

877
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: Do you remember the product integration stuff that we had

878
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: to go through Shredder it was the staple shredder. It

879
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: was Chili's thing. Oh man, that was a thorn in

880
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: my side. I remember when one executive came in and said, Hey,

881
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: for budgetary reasons, we would like to partner up with

882
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: some of these companies and do some product integration. And

883
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: that is that. That's definitely the one time I feel

884
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: like I raised my hand and said we can't. I'm

885
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: very much against us because I think it it definitely

886
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: changes the show. If we are serving a corporate master,

887
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: There's no way the show will be the same. If

888
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: we're putting in any sort of products, it's going to

889
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: alter how we write the show, how we performed the show.

890
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: I was dead set against it. And they went ahead

891
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: and did a couple of things anyway, and and each

892
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: time they were disasters, they were they were terrible. I

893
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: wasn't even going to bring that up to you. But

894
00:58:54,440 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: what Greg talked about that, he called you um a

895
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 1: great improver of life. He told a story about Chili's

896
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: coming and saying, no, Pam can't be drunk, and he Greg,

897
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: he said, he was full blown panicking. Yeah, we were

898
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 1: like three days into the shoot. We're going to lose

899
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: the whole episode. Yeah, and you said no, well, and

900
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: you just that's what he was talking about, like a

901
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: life improperly, here's a situation, let me find let me,

902
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: let me find the yes and or whatever. Yeah, we

903
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: found a way out of it. Um, do you have

904
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 1: any specific memories that you want to share from from

905
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: your last day or a few days on set of

906
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: the last episode there? That was so well first starters.

907
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: Six months before, I talked to Greg about how I

908
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: wanted Michael to go out, like what I thought sort

909
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: of a final arc would be, and the idea that

910
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 1: I pitched was, you know, obviously he in Hollywood, be together.

911
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: But I said, specifically on his last day, I thought

912
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: that there should be a party being planned, but that

913
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: he should basically trick people into thinking he was leaving

914
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: the next day because I just thought that that would

915
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 1: be the most um elegant representation of his growth as

916
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: a human being that he Because Michael lives to be celebrated,

917
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: it's you think that's all he wants. He wants to

918
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: be the center of attention, and he he wants pats

919
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: on the back, he wants people to think he's funny

920
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: and charming and all of those things. But the fact

921
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: that he'd walk away from his big tribute, his big

922
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: send off, and be able to in a very personal

923
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: way say goodbye to each character, that to me felt

924
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: like it would resonate and it was almost more than

925
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: I bargained for, because that's what happened. I had scenes

926
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: with everyone in the cast, and it was it was.

927
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: It was emotional torture because imagine saying goodbye for a week.

928
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, see you later and your wave

929
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: and you're you're out. No, it was like just fraught

930
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: with emotion and and joy and sadness and nostalgia. But

931
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: it was also really beautiful, Like I Treasure. I'd like

932
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: treasure just doing that episode because it did allow me

933
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: to kind of have a finality with everybody and and

934
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: they were all different, like like I had one with

935
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: Toby that wasn't was it was it very nostalgic at all,

936
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: but very fitting of my but even in that certainly

937
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 1: not as a character to be nostalgic, but to kind

938
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: of have that final scene with Paul, you know, I

939
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 1: can't show the emotion that's actually waited behind it as

940
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: a human being. For just me and Paul. Uh So,

941
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: it was it was a dance. You know, it was tricky.

942
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 1: But um, I remember the last take and we were

943
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: shooting in the bullpen. We were shooting in the main set,

944
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: and I started to feel like, oh I I felt like,

945
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: I think they're more people in the vicinity because all

946
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: I could see were the cast. But then I just

947
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: got the set. You know, you just get a sense

948
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, something something, it's got, something's happening. Um.

949
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: And as soon as that last take, the room just

950
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: filled with people and you know, it was all the

951
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: writers and crew and and it it was well, I

952
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: mean you were there, it was. It was ridiculous. It

953
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: was ridiculously emotional. Um. Someone told me leading back up

954
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: to the finale of the series that why would Michael

955
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: come back? And you said, well, if do I got married?

956
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 1: Is that true? I had told Greg, I just don't

957
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: think it's a good idea because I felt like Michael's

958
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: story had definitely ended, and I was reticent about coming

959
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 1: back because I didn't want that ending to be at

960
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: all about Michael, because you guys had two more really

961
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: valuable seasons, and I just didn't feel like it was

962
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 1: right for Michael's return to take anything away from that.

963
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: That was everyone else's ending. Michael had already had his,

964
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: so I just didn't want to. But at the same time,

965
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:57,680
Speaker 1: I felt like I should, out of respect for all

966
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: of you guys, and out of my love for everybody,

967
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: to you know, to acknowledge the the ending of this thing.

968
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: Your kids watch that never now come on, They've never

969
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: watched it, and I completely get it, Like, why would

970
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: you That's just weird, you know, watch your dad do

971
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 1: that thing? Though, Okay, so my daughter's a freshman college

972
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: and you said you going that was became a thing

973
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: because everyone's watch He's totally cool with it. It's not,

974
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, over that weirdness, and nobody makes a big

975
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: deal of it at college. But taking a course in

976
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: communications and the subject matter was like the paradox of

977
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: comedy or something. Then this is like a big lecture,

978
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: like a huge man and they are studying an episode

979
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: of the Office, which she's never seen, and she she

980
01:04:54,920 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: texted us like that was really funny, liked, but she

981
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: said it's so weird. She said, I never thought I

982
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 1: would be studying something that you do that my father

983
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: was in, like for a course. I just I just

984
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: think that's hilarious how that has come around. Oh my gosh,

985
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: so funny. Um well, I thank you, thank you. That

986
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: was unceremonious, noble. Will you get out? Actually, I no, seriously,

987
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 1: I UM so good to see you. It's truly so good.

988
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: And weirdly, it doesn't feel like that much time's past.

989
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: I know it's such a cliche, but like I'll run

990
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: into then I'm like, oh, he's gonna look really different. Now.

991
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: By the way, what does this mean? Whenever anyone walks

992
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: in there, like, you look exactly the same. Everyone looks

993
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: exactly the same to me. But you know what, it's

994
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: all I have you ever been to a reunion, like

995
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,439
Speaker 1: a high school reunion and you've never gone to one?

996
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: Um no, I don't know what I have you. It's

997
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: it's an interesting phenomenon because you might see something. I

998
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: just went back to college for a reunion of my

999
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: improv group. Of all things, it's the fort It was

1000
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: at anniversary of the of the creation of this improv group.

1001
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: So I went back to celebrate that with them, and

1002
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: there were people I hadn't seen since college, and I

1003
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 1: graduated in eighty four, so it had been a long

1004
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:41,439
Speaker 1: long time. And some people like when you see them,

1005
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: there's that immediate oh my, like that is a very

1006
01:06:45,720 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: different looking person, and within fifteen seconds they look exactly

1007
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: like they did because they are who they were, and

1008
01:06:55,280 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: it's you immediately process back to you know, whoever they

1009
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 1: were at the time, although you do look exactly the same,

1010
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: you really do. It's amazing. Um, thank you so much,

1011
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, for coming in, Thanks for talking to me.

1012
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: I so appreciate it. And I we may not see

1013
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: each other very often, but I value your friendship and

1014
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm always so happy to watch you in anything that

1015
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,480
Speaker 1: you're doing really the same way. Yeah, it's so good

1016
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: to see you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks Nancy making friendI

1017
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: gip oh frip tonight. Please give her my best too.

1018
01:07:44,040 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: Good lord, oh man, I don't know about you, but

1019
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: I could just start that right back over from the top. Uh, Steve,

1020
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: my friend, thank you so much for sitting down with me.

1021
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you have anything better to do,

1022
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: or like a bunch of movies and TV shows to make,

1023
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: but still, thank you, and listeners, thank you for listening.

1024
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,839
Speaker 1: Let me know your thoughts on this episode in the reviews.

1025
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: It is so helpful for me and my team. And

1026
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed listening to Steve, well, keep an eye

1027
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: out or or in an ear out, because we will

1028
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: have him back on a future episode with a very

1029
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: special guest. Until then, we will have lots more interviews

1030
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: coming your way, so we will see you next week.

1031
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by

1032
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 1: me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our

1033
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 1: senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is Emily Carr,

1034
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man

1035
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble

1036
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and

1037
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: the episode was mixed by seth Olandsky.