WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - March 22nd, 2024 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:08.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:13.360 This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.120 editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.079 gloom O Business Finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:26.280 Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.080 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. Yes, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.519 we had a FED meeting this week, signaling three rate 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.920 cuts likely this year. Despite the FED lifting the forecast 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.839 for core inflation, stocks ralling on the news, sending the 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.800 SMP to a record close about fifty two hundred for 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.319 the first time, folks. You can read more about it 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.320 and what the FED is up to at Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.280 Tech talks outperforming right after that FED decision, and the 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.040 world of technology is where we are focusing this hour, 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.680 including talks about Apple and Google getting more deeply involved 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.840 with one another, this time on our artificial intelligence. And 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.959 you know her for her podcasts and chronicling of the 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.000 individuals and companies that have dominated the tech landscape for 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.720 the past thirty years. Kara Swisher on her new book 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.679 It's called burn Book, a Tech love story All of. 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.640 That to coll and we begin with the doubling down 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.840 on a relationship that's already existed for years between two 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.120 very well known giants in the tech space. We are 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:23.880 talking about Apple and Alphabet. 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.520 The story by Bloomberg's chief technology reporter Mark German caught 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.959 the attention of investors, sending both stocks hire. Earlier this week, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.160 Mark joined us along with bloomberg new Senior executive editor 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.800 for Global Technology, Tom Giles, giving us all the details 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:38.440 Apple and. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.080 Google are and talks for Apple to license Gemini, that's 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:45.319 Google's top generator of AI, large language model for integration 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.520 into the iPhone and iOS eighteen and the iPad later 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.360 this year. Apple has its own homegrown AI, including some 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.920 Jenai that will be based into the device. Those will 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.200 be models that run on the phone themselves, but with 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.200 a lot of consume. Are clamoring for our Gemini Microsoft 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.800 Copilot Chat GBT the ability to type in a short 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.240 prompt and get an essay, a letter, or an image 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.880 or what not created for you that's very reliant on 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.840 the cloud. It's a very expensive endeavor obviously that comes 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.240 with a lot of challenges in scrutiny as well, and 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.720 so Apple felt like going with a partner at least 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.640 this year, isn't its best interest. It has talked to 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.000 open AI and it has talked to Google. The open 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.040 AI talks happened recently, but the Google talks are active, 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.480 and it appears both Google and Apple are keen on 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.600 getting something done by June. Obviously this could still fall apart, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.919 but this is what's happening right now, the two being 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:42.600 in discussions. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:45.280 Hey, Mark, does it also tell us a story? Does 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:47.880 it tell you a story about where Apple is when 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.600 it comes to its progress on AI right now or 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.840 lack there? Yeah, and that's the real question. 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:56.480 It tells us that Apple has not made as much 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.799 progress as it would need to on the generative AI 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.320 and cloud based generator of AI front specifically. I do 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:06.240 think they have made a lot of progress on on 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.160 device AI in day to day usability, but either it 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.320 has not made progress or it doesn't feel like it 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.000 needs to make progress on cloud based GENETAI specifically based 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.760 on short prompts. I would imagine it does come down 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:20.200 to the fact that they need They know they need 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.800 to get this out this year. They know Google's the 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.040 best why not expand that search deal, maybe make some 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.880 money off of it too, while having far less liability 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.800 than they would if they went in house. 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:32.440 Yeah, I do feel like the pressure is on all 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:34.240 of the big tech names to kind of really move 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.120 forward when it comes to AI. Tom Giles come on 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:37.960 in on this, because I feel like when you hear 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.320 Apple and Google get together on anything, I feel like 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.400 exponentially the impact And I think about regulators just being like, wait, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.680 what are you two doing now again. 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.120 As we saw this story coming together, the wheels in 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.640 my head started turning. Immediately. My thinking is, DOJ and 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.400 FTC are going to look at this this agreement should 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.560 it come together with great interest? As we all know, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:07.040 DJ is already looking into that relationship between Apple and 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:11.560 Google that gives Apple, that gives Google added prominence on 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.080 the iPhone. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.720 When it comes to search right, when it comes. 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:15.280 To search right. 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.800 But so if you see something that deepens the relationship 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.320 between two of the most powerful companies in the world, 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:25.799 you're gonna want to make sure that that's not something 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:29.800 that's gonna thwart competition or in any way hurt the 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:36.680 consumer somehow keep competitors from getting into this space. So 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.839 there's lots of questions that they have that they're going 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.159 to ask and already the FTC is looking at the 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.279 relationship when it comes to AI between Microsoft and open Ai. 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.760 So these kinds of things they're gonna. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.880 They're gonna be why whiteboard, I'm assuming you guys had 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:50.599 this massive white. 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.159 We're gonna want to look at the find at the details, 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:54.160 the fine print. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.760 So Mark, it's funny when you when you talk about 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:02.159 Apple and Alphabet, you know they're certainly competitors to the 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.640 extent that Alphabet has the Android operating system, which you know, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:09.880 is the biggest operating system in competition with Apple's iOS. 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.800 But at the same time they are partners and Apple 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.000 has had partnerships with once rivals in the past. I 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.200 think back to this event in twenty fifteen, when I 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.280 think it was an iPhone event or maybe an iPad event, 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.599 where a Microsoft executive was on stage, and it was 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.279 such a big deal that like a Microsoft executive was 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.719 actually on stage at this event. If this partnership comes 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.080 to fruition, is it that big of a deal or 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.200 is it not that big of a deal because Apple 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:34.919 and Google have had a partnership in the past. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.480 I certainly remember that iPad pro announcement that was in 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.360 September twenty fifteen, and Microsoft at the time, under their 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.480 new CEO, sought in Nadela. At the time, their goal 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.640 was to get their software and services everywhere. Apple's goal 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:52.719 at the time was to make the iPad more of 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.840 an office device, and so there was some mutual benefit there. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.760 Getting Office on the iPad would be good for both parties. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.680 In this case, getting Gemini built into the iPhone would 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:03.080 also be. 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:04.000 Good for both parties. 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.360 Apple would be able to push new AI features that 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.920 everyone's claiming for to its two billion users, and Gemini 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.000 would be gaining many more users and a stronghold on 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:19.160 one of the most popular devices of our lifetimes. Right, 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:20.440 and I want one more thing. 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:20.920 I want to add. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.440 Tom's point is excellent about the FTC and the doj 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.320 our thinking on this is that in order to combat 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.600 those concerns, Apple probably will have to have an API 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.520 or some sort of short or feature for other generative 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.120 AI providers, maybe open Ai, maybe Anthropic, maybe someone else 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.840 to be able to integrate themselves into iOS as an alternative. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.839 And better yet, Apple probably would have to let users 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.080 choose when you boot up the phone for the first time, 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.240 who you want your generative AI provider to be or 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.680 as Tom said, the DOJ and FTC are going to 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.680 be smelling around pretty quickly. 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.320 I also do wonder about Gemini Apple Google, who gets 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.120 I mean, who benefits more. You just said mark Gemini 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.520 into the iPhone. It's good for both parties. Did one 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:08.280 of them need to do this more than the other? 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:10.200 Was the pressure on Apple? 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:11.080 You know you move in? 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.160 Yeah, you know, I would say the easy answer is 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.000 the pressure is more so on Apple. But I think 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:18.080 there's pressure on both companies. 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.160 Right Google. 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.000 You know, Search obviously is down. Google is looking for, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.040 you know, new areas of growth and getting its you know, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.960 next big thing on the world's biggest or second biggest platform. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.280 You know, it's a big deal for them. They're already 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:35.840 owning their own in house platform, they'll own number one, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.160 and now they could own number two on AI as well. 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.119 So I think the pressure is probably equal on both, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.880 maybe more so on Google, because I think if Apple 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.160 didn't do anything this year on the A front, if 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.280 they didn't do this, it would be a bad look. 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.560 We'd certainly criticize them heavily for it. But would their 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:57.240 revenue drop significantly? Would people stop buying iPhones, probably not so. Certainly, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.840 maybe the pressure is more on Google, but certainly on both. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.200 From the investor point of view, you have to look 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.520 at the perception that there are some players that are 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.680 far further ahead when it comes to generative AI. A 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.400 lot of people are giving a lot of props to 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.840 Sachi Nadella and Microsoft for getting in on that relationship 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.560 with open Ai at an early stage, making a big investment, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.160 and being seen as leaders. There's a lot of criticism 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.440 about Google, on the other hand, as being something of 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.960 a lagorty. They should have been way ahead of the 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.160 game when it comes to AI. They've got deep mind, 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.880 they had their own AI team at work. Sometimes those 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.040 two teams worked at loggerheads with each other. They're getting 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.760 that better, but they are seen as being behind Microsoft 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:46.200 and its relationship with open Ai. You see Meta coming 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:49.559 from out of left field with its lms. It's open 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.040 sourcing them. There's a lot of momentum behind that, and 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.400 Zuck is putting a big push behind that, and Apple 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.199 of those big players. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.920 You really would like to see see Apple. 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.480 Being in that conversation. It's not in those conversations. It's 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.600 not being mentioned in the same breath Microsoft, Open AI, 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:08.440 and even Google. 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.719 It does feel like today's news has kind of changed that, right, 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.240 like all of a sudden the conversation maybe, all right, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:15.280 I don't know that Apple all of a sudden, we're 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:16.520 looking at differently a little bit. 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.080 Potential that it that it has a strong relationship with 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.560 Google and it's going to capitalize on that and weave 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.720 more of those open those AI features into the iPhone, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.080 providing a huge platform and a huge validation for what 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.959 Google has been doing. Both have the potential to benefit 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:35.320 tremendously from this, And. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.079 Tim, I think about how much we've talked about Google, 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.920 right and the criticism of Gemini specifically in terms of 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.400 some of the biased concerns. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.200 Yeah, so talk a little bit about that, Mark, because 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:44.520 it was just a couple of weeks ago that we 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.520 were talking about all the challenges that Alphabet was facing 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.520 in its AI ambitions and the CEO of the company 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.280 had to essentially come out and say, well, you know, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.559 wait a second, this is not acceptable to us, and 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:56.959 we're working on this to try to make it better. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:01.720 Yeah, and over those familiar with some controversy on Twitter 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.840 and other social media about you know, which races were 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:10.040 portrayed in an historical context. This is my understanding. My 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:14.160 understanding is that Google would provide the Gemini underlying model 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.800 to Apple right, which apparently did not have the issue. 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.520 And this particular issue that soon Darbar Chai, as you said, 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.240 commented on and was at the center of the controversy 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.520 was related to the end user interface of the Google chatbot. 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.760 So it's apparent that, or apparently from what I'm told, 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.720 this issue wouldn't have been replicated on the iPhone integration. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.400 You know, it's really interesting, Tim and I are both 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.520 reading Caris Switscher's book that kind of takes you through 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.000 so much in the technology world. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:43.160 Now. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.439 I know our own team has really just chronicled it 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.400 so well over the last couple of decades or the 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.400 last decade and a half. But I just think about, how, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.200 you know, Tom, there are companies that were so much 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.880 seemingly at the forefront that all of a sudden they weren't. 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.200 And I do feel like you see this jocking among 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.760 especially some of the establishment, of like we got to 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:03.960 be on this because this is what we all think 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:04.720 is the next wave. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:06.760 Well, I'm really struck by if you look at the 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.959 share price of these companies. I mean, Apple rocketed ahead, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.880 became the world's most valuable company, but at stock has 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.600 kind of, you know, taken a turn for the worst. 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.640 By contrast, I'm fascinated by you. Look at the share 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.920 price for Meta on the other hand. A couple of 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.480 years ago, Meta was on the ropes. We were talking 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.320 about the existential threat posed by companies like TikTok, for example. 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.679 We were talking about the things that Apple has done, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:36.280 sort of changing and making it harder for you to 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.680 monetize advertising on the iPhone, and that really hurt Facebook. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.920 A couple of years ago, their stock was tanking as 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.960 a result of all these things. Now look at how 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.000 Meta's performing visa the Apple. The story has changed dramatically. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.920 Well, Tom, I'm curious about this idea of a landgrab 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.360 or AI going on right now, because each of these 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.640 big megacap companies has their own identity, right Facebook, Meta 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.320 owns social networking, Apple owns the iPhone and the mobile 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.960 operating system, at least at the high end. Right, you 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.040 have Alphabet that owns search. You have Microsoft, which would 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:10.800 say that it owns productivity, but it plays in a 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.600 lot of different areas. And now they're all going after 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:16.160 what is essentially the same thing. Is there any sort 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.720 of historical corollary for this when you have so many 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.680 companies that are known for their own thing kind of 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.200 going after a new thing. 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:25.000 Yeah, and some of them do better than others. I 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.439 mean the Internet, some of them you know, built themselves 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.840 on that, and others got left behind. Microsoft comes to mind, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.160 for example, when it comes to mobile telephony. You know, 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.319 Apple sprinted ahead and really has owned that space. Google 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.760 came in and with Android has done very very well. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.800 But if you look at dominance of the hardware and 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.440 of the US market, Apple is kind of really run 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.840 away with that. Microsoft went nowhere. 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.360 So Mark come back in on because I think about 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:56.920 just the last is it week or so or two 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.160 weeks or so? Apple give it up on the car 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.400 after ten years and now this potential deal. It looks 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.319 like with Google moving kind of all in pretty aggressively. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.720 It feels like with artificial intelligence, how are you kind 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.520 of looking at Apple holistically right now on this news? 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:16.360 The presence of new artificial intelligence software and capabilities doesn't 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.520 change the underlying idea that Apple's a hardware company that 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.040 makes seventy five percent to eighty percent of their annual 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.640 revenue from hardware. So even if they fix this underlying 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.640 problem with the lack of artificial intelligence, or even when 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.920 they do as I should say, doesn't fix the underlying 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.559 notion that they don't necessarily have a next generation hardware 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.360 product to make money off of. Now here's where those 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.840 two things come together. AI could enable all sorts of 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:45.600 new hardware products in the future. 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:46.600 What do you mean very. 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:47.120 Core of that? 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.360 Well, the car was an AI product right at self 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.200 driving cars AI hardware, and now that AI hardware is 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.199 no longer happening. So they're going to have to figure 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.319 out some sort of new hardware category, whether it's based 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:04.120 on AI, probably or not, to really move the needle 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.080 revenue wise. The iPhone has completely plateaued, the iPad has 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.400 been sinking, the Mac has plateaued. Some of their other 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.640 products AirPods, Apple Watch, et cetera. Those are growing, right, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.560 but those are not meaningful contributors to the bottom line. 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.040 The jury is still out on the vision pro. There 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.440 are some other future categories that they're working on, so 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.080 I'll mention now and some I won't, including AirPods with cameras, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:32.080 augmented reality glasses. But those don't really change the fundamental story. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.240 The question is what is the next big thing that 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.160 could bring as much revenue and interest in as a 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.520 car And I think even for Apple right now, it's 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:39.280 a little unclear. 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.800 Hey, Mark, and I've got a question for you in 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.680 the last few seconds. Can you talk about where and 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.440 how Apple might use this for Vision Pro. 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:49.840 And real quick? Mark about there? 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.800 Ye know, that's yeah, yeah, sure, that's a great question. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.360 So there is some AI in the Vision Pro, but 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.520 nothing like you've seen from what Meta has been able 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.480 to do with their headsets integrating AI. There is a 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:04.280 future I see where the vision pro cameras could tap 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.840 into this new generative AI that they're getting for Google 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.360 and their in house to unite those two things. You 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.280 could be walking around a grocery store. The artificial intelligence 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.960 compare with those cameras tell you more about a food 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.000 item you're looking at, or you look at a player 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.680 at an NBA game. The AI combined with those cameras 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.360 can tell you their stats or what their three point percentages, 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.160 depending on where they're standing behind the r. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.320 All right now, I totally kind of get it, all right, 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.320 We so appreciate it. Markerman, Bloomberg News Chief Technology Report 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.440 and of course, Bloomberg News Senior Executive editor for Global Technology, 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.560 Tom Giles joining us in studio. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.880 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.160 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.360 on Apple, card Play and the Bright Auto with a 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.120 Bloomberg Business at or watch us live on YouTube. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.840 It is Bloomberg BusinessWeek. That's Carol Master. I'm Tim Staneveek, 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.920 and you all know our next guests from the podcast 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.480 on with Kara Swish and Pivot. You see her on CNN, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.880 where she's a contributor. She's also a former contributing opinion 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.720 writer for The New York Times. She co founded the 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.760 tech news site Recode, and then, earlier in her career, 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.320 she was also a reporter for The Wall Street Journal, 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.240 where she founded the tech news site All Things D 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.800 and she was a reporter at the Washington Post. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.960 All right, everybody. Her new book is burn Book, a 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.480 Tech love Story. It details her more than thirty years 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.600 covering the tech industry. We are delighted to have with 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:28.600 US journalist and author Kara Swisher joining us now from Chicago. Hello, Hello, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.520 to say that we love the book. As an understatement, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.320 I think Tim and I both listened to it as 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.640 audio books, so it was fun to hear you narrate it. 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:40.200 We want to get into the book you, but we'd 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.880 be You're welcome, we'd be remiss not to kind of 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.240 ask you about kind of the broader I don't know, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.440 tech outlook if you will, and some of the stories, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.360 whether it's the redded ipo, whether it's TikTok banning in 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.600 the US, whether it's Apple and Google getting together on AI. 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.000 What is it that you kind of find really really 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.040 interesting right now and that you think investors in like 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.720 a Bloomberg audience or the audience at large, should really 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:02.520 be paying attention to. 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.200 Sure, Interestingly, i'd have to tell you something about that book. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.639 The audio version is selling the double the amount of 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.200 the print version. Wow, he's the bestseller list. So it's 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.080 really interesting. So that to me, since my last book, 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.840 which was twenty five years ago, is a really interesting trend. Obviously, 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.080 I do podcasts, so people like listening to me. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.120 So did you narrate your other books though, Caro, I did. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.320 I did, but nobody was listening. So I wonder if 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:28.880 if I wonder if it is there is no iPhone. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:29.600 Just remember this. 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:31.760 You know it's funny. So I listened to it on Spotify, 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.080 which you can now listen to. So you can listen 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:34.840 to it for free on Spotify if you're a subscriber. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:38.280 Carol bought it on a different service. Does it matter 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.479 to you how someone listens to it? 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.680 I get paid, no matter what paid. 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:43.600 That's all we care about. 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.160 Okay, yeah, that's all I care about my content, which 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.840 is why I'm kind of a media entrepreneur. But the 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.919 bigger picture, I mean all the above that you were 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.760 talking about, whether it's a I interviewed Steve Hoffman this 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.679 morning for a rather long interview which we're not going 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:02.400 to publish all after the company goes publiics for obvious reasons. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.399 And you know, I've been following a reddit for nineteen years. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.880 I just realized I've known him for nineteen years when 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:12.600 he was a kid. Actually, and so or Steve sam Altman, 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.040 who I recently had on stage in San Francisco, also 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:17.879 someone I met when he was nineteen years old. But 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.240 you know, I'm everything Ald is new again in a 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.639 weird way. But I'm paying a lot of attention to 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.320 climate change tech, to AI obviously and where it's going 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.840 and the bit there's a lot of machinations around that 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.960 and lots of different permutations. I'm spending a lot of 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.600 time thinking about healthcare tech and the impact of AI 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.840 on that, and obviously the big companies and what's going 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.080 to happen to them in media everybody you know at 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:43.879 the end of media as we know what kind of 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.240 the story. This has been going on for three decades. 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.640 Now, Okay, so let's get to some of those things. 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.399 I do want to start with with Reddit, and you 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.800 know your conversation with Steve today, not notwithstanding, does does 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.960 Reddit have what it takes to compete with the meta platforms? 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.719 The alphabets? Yeah, the amazons? Now when it comes to 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.160 tour I mean this is how it makes its money. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.040 Yeah, no, yeahs it does. Okay, I mean I think 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.520 they're just toy but I get so confused when they 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.520 try these things. They're not profitable in a traditional sense, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.679 but they I think they have cash flow, which I 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.840 think is what you need. They're remind me more of Snapchat, 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:18.520 but a different service, a very different kind of service. 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:21.920 I mean, their business is small, five hundred I guess 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.680 five hundred million, users seventy six million daily users. I 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.600 think that's the one they want to push people towards. 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.480 I think it was eight hundred million dollars in advertising. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:31.080