1 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a 5 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to 6 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at 7 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for 11 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: joining me for Session three sixteen of the Therapy from 12 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after 13 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Twenty twenty three marks the 14 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of hip hop, a genre that has transcended time, age, 15 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: and language barriers. As we celebrate some of our favorite artists, 16 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: from the Laurens to the Missy's to the Cortis, we 17 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: also want to spend some time highlighting the black women 18 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: executives who work behind the scenes, changing the game one 19 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: move at a time. Joining us for today's conversation is 20 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: Tracy Waples a former senior music executive who has architected 21 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: the sale of over one hundred million albums and the 22 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: success of a host of major stores. Her resume includes 23 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: names like Rihanna, jay Z, Mariah Carey, method Man, and Moore. 24 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, she found the music consulting firm DNA 25 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: Creative and continues to mentor young women in music. In 26 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: our conversation, Tracy and I discussed how she kicked off 27 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: and navigated her career in the music industry, reconciling with 28 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: hip hop's complicated relationship to sexism and misogyny, and the 29 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: importance of including women's stories and contributions in the history 30 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: of hip hop. If something resonates with you while enjoying 31 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: our conversation, please share it with us on social media 32 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: using the hashtag TVG in session, or join us over 33 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: in the sister circles Let's talk more about the episode. 34 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls 35 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: dot com. Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for 36 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: joining me today, Tracy, Thank. 37 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 2: You for having me. Doctor Jod is an absolute pleasure 38 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: to be on this Therapy for Black Girls podcast. 39 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm very excited to chat with you as we 40 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: sawlebrate fifty years of hip hop and you have definitely 41 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: been a force in the industry. So I'm very excited 42 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: we can celebrate this with you. 43 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: Thank you. It is definitely a milestone. And I turned 44 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 2: fifty last year, so it's like I'm growing up with 45 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: hip hop in that respect for sure. 46 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. So you have worked 47 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: with some incredibly big names. You've worked with jay Z, 48 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: Kanye Wes, Rihanna, But I want us to go back 49 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: to young Tracy mean tap into her for a little bit. 50 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: So you had dropped out of Hostra. How did your 51 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: entertainment career actually begin? 52 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: So I dropped out of Hostra because I couldn't afford 53 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 2: it anymore. Actually, I was putting myself through school and 54 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: pretty much learned early on the sort of personality type 55 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: I was going to be, which was fully committed to 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: one thing and not really feeling confident that I'd be 57 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: able to like split the difference and give two things, 58 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: meaning having to work and pursue an education the same 59 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: level frankly of commitment. And so I had reached out 60 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: to a good friend, a dear friend would become a 61 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: family friend, of ours, Andre Herrel, who was definitely my 62 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: music business mentor, again such a close friend to me 63 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: and my family. And when I met him when I 64 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: was even younger than college years, he was like, you 65 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: should be in the record business, and I was like, 66 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: what are you crazy? Like I have to pursue my 67 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 2: education like my parents aren't having it. And fast forward 68 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 2: to I ended up calling him and saying, remember what 69 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 2: you said to me when I was in my teenage years. 70 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: I was like, well, I'm calling to cash in on 71 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: that because I explained to him what my family was 72 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: going through and what I was going through and finance wise, 73 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: and he understood. He adored me, he adored my family, 74 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 2: and so I think there was a sense of urgency 75 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: in him to help find a solution for me. And 76 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: I also think he was happy to know that I 77 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: was ready to do it, even though I, honestly, Doctor Jorge, 78 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 2: I didn't give it much thought. It was just a 79 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 2: job to me. To be honest with. 80 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: You, What do you think he saw on you, Ben. 81 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: I think fearlessness and being bold. Even the way I 82 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: met him, I was really underage in a nightclub that 83 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 2: I know business being in, and I saw him holding court, 84 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: if you will, and I just belined over there to 85 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: ask him, like I literally said, what is your name 86 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: and what do you do? And he was tickled by it. 87 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: You know, he wasn't offended. I was fifteen, j justhy 88 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: my sixteenth birthday and I'm sure I looked all of twelve. 89 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: And he was like, what is your name and what 90 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: do you do? And how did you get here? And 91 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: how are you getting home? And I think again, he 92 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 2: wasn't offended. I think he saw something in me which 93 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: was youth, fearlessness, and interestingly enough, he also saw something 94 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: that should be protected right even as a young person 95 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: meeting for the first time, because he asked me how 96 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,119 Speaker 2: I got there and I said, oh, my dad dropped 97 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: me off in the city to meet up with friends. 98 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 2: And he said, well, how are you going to get home? 99 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 2: And I said, I'm going to call my dad and 100 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: He's like, I'm going to bring you home and he did, 101 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: and he met my parents that night, like in the 102 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 2: wee hours of the morning. And I think the second 103 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: part of what he saw in me was the stability 104 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: of family life. My parents and my siblings. We were 105 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: living in the suburbs, and I think Andre took a 106 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: liking to the level of structure, and also he got 107 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: to talking with my dad and started to see what 108 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: he perceived I think as this upper middle class family 109 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: that had grounding and rearing and Andre was super educated. 110 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: My dad was super educated. I think he appreciated that, 111 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 2: and from that day forward he really became like a 112 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: fixture in our family. 113 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: So once you started working in the entertainment business, what 114 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: do you think your early goals were once you figured 115 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: out like, okay, this is something that I could do, 116 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: What were some of your early goals and motivation? 117 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 2: Well, for starters, not to mess it up, right. I 118 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 2: was very aware, very quickly on what sort of opportunity 119 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: that this was, because again, upon meeting Andre, we didn't 120 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: know sort of what level of fame or prestige he 121 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: had in the business. He was just like a good 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: man first getting somebody's daughter home, right, But it became 123 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: very apparent of how serious he was in the music 124 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: business as a fixture and as an executive. And so 125 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 2: knowing that one he believed in me enough to recommend 126 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: me and get me an opportunity, so I didn't want 127 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: to mess that up, And two I didn't want to 128 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: mess up the opportunity to be able to start making 129 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: money to help offset some of the financial hardships my 130 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 2: family was going through. 131 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: Got it. So what do you feel like has sustained 132 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: your career in the business. 133 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: I think that same sort of fearless attitude, dude. I 134 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: think the committing to something. I think going all in, 135 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: And most importantly, once I sort of got the rhythm 136 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: of what I was called to do, I think that 137 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: I took on that mantle as a responsibility of other 138 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: people's lives. Like even though the artists that I worked with, 139 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 2: we were peers essentially, right, young black starting out on 140 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: these new endeavors. Again, I was nineteen, so that's still teenager, 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: and so were the artists that I was being entrusted 142 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: to work with. And I took that really seriously. I 143 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: think those are the three things that were motivating me, Like, 144 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: you can't mess this up, Like the opportunity because Andre 145 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: put you in place. Your family isn't a place where 146 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: they need help, and other people are like entrusting you 147 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: with their children, so you have to man up and 148 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: grow up and try to be as mature as one 149 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: could be at that age. 150 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: So you worked with both Rihanna and Methimn very early 151 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: in their career is can you tell us how you 152 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: were introduced to them and what role you played in 153 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: their careers in very early days. 154 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 2: Yes, so method Man, which came before Rihanna. I had 155 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: found out about him, because interestingly enough, I was on 156 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: a tour bus with three or four actually def jam acts, 157 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: three of which we broke that year Onyx, Redman and 158 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: Boss and Nikki d was on there too, and we 159 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: were on the Chronic tour. So we were on a 160 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: tour bus. And I say that because contrary to I 161 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: think this belief that there was always this immense amount 162 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: of beef and static between the East Coast and the 163 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: West Coast, we were extended family in the early nineties 164 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: in very many ways, and doctor Dre even inviting us 165 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 2: to go on tour with them is an example of that. 166 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 2: And one night, everybody on the bus was pretty much 167 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: sleeping except myself, frederal Star from Onyx, and the bus 168 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: driver pretty much. And I was sitting closer to the 169 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: bus driver in the front and Freddie was in the 170 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: back and he had a light on and I don't 171 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: know if it came from a phone or maybe it's 172 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 2: a little overhead flashlight, but he had this light on 173 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: so I could spot him in the back. But what 174 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: caught my attention was what he was listening to. I 175 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: could hear it over and over and over again on repeat, 176 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: and it was just an instrumental with no lyrics, and 177 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 2: it was so infectious that it got me up out 178 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: of my seat and I walked back there and I 179 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 2: was like, what are you listening to? What is that? 180 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 2: Who made that? What is that? And he was tickled 181 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 2: by just how excited I was, and he was like, Oh, 182 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 2: it's my man's in them. And they're this hip hop 183 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: group out of Staten Island called wool Tang Clan. And 184 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 2: I was like, what are they Chinese? Are they Asian? 185 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 2: And he's like no, no, and he's like it's so 186 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: many of them, they're my dudes. And I was like 187 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 2: Staten Island, huh and he was like, yea stat n Island. 188 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: And at that moment, Doctor Joy I made it about 189 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: face and walked back to my seat, and all I 190 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 2: could think about was how was I going to get 191 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: back to New York first thing smoking in the morning, 192 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, we have an emergency travel phone. 193 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: Number for deaf jam. I'm going to call them get 194 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: a flight because I have to get to Staten Island. 195 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: Wow, so you sought them out. 196 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 2: I did. I did just off of an instrumental. I 197 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: didn't even hear any raps. I just was like, I 198 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: have to get back to New York to start really 199 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: doing better due diligence than I could being disconnected on 200 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: the road. Because again, unlike today, we just didn't have 201 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: the luxury of like tapping into laptops and dialing up 202 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: social media to see if anybody's posting about these Wu 203 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: Tang people. It was literally an analog life, doctor Joy. 204 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: It was like, you know, hitting out the mud and 205 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: the grit and grinding and having the like physically scout 206 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 2: artists and that was a huge part of what an 207 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 2: R was. Back then. It was artist and repertoire, but 208 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: you were like scouting for talent. I got myself together 209 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: and made a couple of calls. I literally left on 210 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: a flight I think at six in the morning. I 211 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: think by the time they came down and did lobby call, 212 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: I wasn't part of the role call. They were like, 213 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: where's Tracy. You know, I was already back in the 214 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: City trying to figure out how to get access to 215 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 2: the guys into the group, and then with Rihanna it 216 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 2: was very different and unique in the situation. So my 217 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: method Man experience was what I call my deaf Jam 218 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: one point zero experience, and my Rianna experience is what 219 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: I call my def Jam two point oho experience, which 220 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: was easily a gap of probably like fifteen years even 221 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: more maybe. And so at this particular time, I had 222 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: went over to deaf Jam two point zero with a 223 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 2: small group that was centered around Jay Z becoming president, 224 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: and la Reid was already there as the chairman, and 225 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: so bringing over J meant bringing over a few other 226 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: executives that had been working with J my self included. 227 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: And now I'm not doing A and R anymore, so 228 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: I guess I should say that for the record. Also 229 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 2: now I'm being brought in to head up the marketing 230 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: department at def Jam two point zero. And I think 231 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: Jay Brown was connected to Rihanna's then lawyer, a gentleman 232 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: named Scott Felcher, who as an A and R person 233 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 2: I had also known in that capacity from my history 234 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 2: in the music business. So I think Scott had good 235 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: prowess and felt like, this is a solid team to 236 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: introduce an artist, of which obviously everybody in her camp 237 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: believed in a great deal. But also there's that youth 238 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: factor again, right like she was literally fifteen about to 239 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: turn sixteen, and so they brought her into the office. 240 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: Scott did, along with the manager at the time who 241 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 2: I'd known from Columbia named Mark, and they had done 242 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 2: a showcase with the guys that I wasn't in Jay's 243 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: office for and then jay Z said to Jay Brown, 244 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: my nickname was Wop back then, and he was like, 245 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: somebody go get Wop, somebody go get Wap, bring Wop 246 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 2: in here. And so she ended up pretty much having 247 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: to perform all over again from the top. And Doctor 248 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: Joy not only did it not phase her, I think 249 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: it phased me. Her performance was so intense and her 250 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 2: commitment to what she was doing was so intense. I 251 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: don't think I'd ever seen an artist that young like that. 252 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: And prior to Rihanna, the only other female artist that 253 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: I had worked that had that same sort of intensity 254 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: to how much they were committed was Mariah Carey, and 255 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: I knew immediately she was gonna be big like thatiately 256 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: it didn't looked like a superstar at all. She was 257 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: naturally stunning. I mean, she was tall and lanky, and 258 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: she had these piercing green eyes, but she hadn't been 259 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: through any sort of tuning and retooling in terms of 260 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: image and stuff like that. So you're seeing someone at 261 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: sort of their most raws moments when they can be 262 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: pretty vulnerable. But she was tiger focused and strong and smart. 263 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 2: Smart in the sense that she had just obviously had 264 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: to showcase for everyone else in the room. She was 265 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: smart enough to realize that if I was brought into 266 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: this room and she has to redo this for me, 267 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: then she knew she had to sell me. She did 268 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: not take her eyes off of me. There was very 269 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: many other people in the room. She was so locked in, 270 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, this is it. We can't 271 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: let her leave. And they ended up doing the deal. 272 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 2: Kept everyone in the office who was centered around this deal, 273 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: the lawyers till four o'clock in the morning to get 274 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: it done. Wow, like you just knew it when you 275 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: saw it. And again, it's interesting when it comes to 276 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 2: I think superstar talent and just signing artists or any 277 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: superstar talent of any kind, even in sports now with 278 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: metrics and analytics and all of these things, I think 279 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: people sometimes stray away from, like those gut tests. It's 280 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: like the eye test, the gut tests. There are certain 281 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: sort of intangibles and nuanced things and things that computers 282 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: they can't spit that information out to you. You have 283 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: to be in there in those moments. It's an energy 284 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 2: and it's palpable, like you know, you just you can't 285 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: avoid how intense it is. And again for someone to 286 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: be as young as she was and have that, it 287 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 2: was like it was a no brainer for our group 288 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: to be honest with you. 289 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so La La Anthony actually portrayed your character or 290 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: you were portrayed on Wu Tang, an American saga show. 291 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: How authentic do you feel like that portrayal was? 292 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: To be quite honest with you, it was really authentic. 293 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: I give Lala a great deal of credit because we 294 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: hadn't really talked that much before she did it, but 295 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 2: we knew each other. We knew each other from her 296 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: days as a VJ at MTV for TROL and so 297 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: she would see me in my work mode and just 298 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 2: being busy and orchestrating and wrangling and doing those sorts 299 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: of things or communicating with producers in a certain way. 300 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: So she knew me and had seen me in real 301 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: time in that way, but not a great deal. So 302 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,360 Speaker 2: for her to have delivered on those things so incredibly, 303 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: I was like, oh girl, you really did that. That's amazing. 304 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: I think the only thing that they didn't get with 305 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 2: too much accuracy is the fact that back then I 306 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 2: wasn't corporatized yet, Like I was still super young, living 307 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 2: the culture every day, dressing that same way, which I 308 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: think was a lot of my appeal to the artists 309 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 2: that we were interested in signing and working with because 310 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 2: it was more relatable. And even though I had to 311 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 2: be the business person in the room, I think that 312 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: people knew that I cared about their lives and their livelihoods, 313 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 2: being one of them in that way. And so that 314 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: was the only thing that they didn't nail too much, 315 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: because I definitely wasn't wearing like blazers or anything like that. 316 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: So what was it like for you to see your 317 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: career portrayed on TV in that way? 318 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: I mean it was super super super humbling, very surprising, 319 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 2: if I'm being one hundred percent honest, because there's so 320 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: many instances where a plethora of women, myself included, like 321 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 2: our story don't get told. We aren't really recognized for 322 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 2: our contributions like that. And it's interesting because it's never 323 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: bothered me. For me, it started to bother me as 324 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: hip hop is turning fifty. For all the droves of 325 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 2: other women that I've worked with, I always say, I 326 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: really believe that I belonged to this unsung group of 327 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 2: sheroes and that we were like our own sort of 328 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: sorority in a way. And hopefully, God willing, some of 329 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 2: the things that I am embarking on right now will 330 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: help turn the spotlight around on that. 331 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: Can you tell us who some of those other people are? 332 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 2: Oh? My god? Yes. So. One of the very first 333 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: women that I connected with in the music business is 334 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: a woman named Kim Lumpkin, who is a very dear 335 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: sister friend of mine to this day. We work together 336 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: in Eddief's basement. This is back in the Heavy d 337 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 2: and the Boys days and the Pete Rock and Cel 338 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: Smooth days, and he had a house in New Jersey 339 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: and that was the first job that Andre put me in. Actually, 340 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: and Kim is an incredible woman and we're still very 341 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: close to this day, she manages a series of great 342 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 2: producers from Rodney Jerkins to q Tip to salam Remi. 343 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 2: And there was a woman named Angela Thomas who was 344 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: an executive at Columbia actually, and in my early days 345 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 2: at Deaf Jam, walking into her office and she was 346 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 2: responsible for our Deaf Jam as a label, because a 347 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 2: lot of times labels at our boutique have joint ventures 348 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: with bigger corporations and at the time, it wasn't even 349 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: Sony back then, it was CBS. And I just remember 350 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 2: like walking into her office and just seeing how busy 351 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: she was and just all of the things that she 352 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: was doing and had her hands in. And I owe 353 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: a great debt of gratitude to her because when I 354 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 2: was working at Eddiev's house before I even made it 355 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 2: to Deaf Jam, she allowed me to come to her 356 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 2: apartment and literally I asked her so many questions. She 357 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: answered everything, and she was like giving me marketing plans 358 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: and things that I could review. And I talked to 359 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 2: her so much to the point where I sat on 360 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: the end of her bed till she got in her 361 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 2: pajamas and fell asleep, and she just engaged me the 362 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: entire time. I had never worked in the business before, 363 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 2: and you know, she was an exemplary executive throughout her 364 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: tenure in the business. And then fast forward to the 365 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: other companies that I worked at. Whether it was Bad Boy, 366 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: which was also a boutique company, and though it was 367 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: Puffy's company, the truth is the majority of the company 368 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 2: was being run by women. Kim Lumpkin ended up being 369 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: at Bad Boy with me again. My dear friend Ronda Cowan, 370 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 2: who was a first friend that I made at def 371 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 2: Jam one point zero, ended up being with me a 372 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 2: Bad Boy again. Gwen Niles Bad Boy, Francesca Spiro, God 373 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: rest her soul. She's passed on. But there's so many 374 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 2: women that were running things. And then you had the 375 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: hip hop scene in Atlanta and Falana Williams and I 376 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: ended up being able to work together, and there's just 377 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 2: so many Lisa Cambridge, I mean, I could go on, 378 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 2: and Maria Davis, who is just an exemplary woman who 379 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: was around in our early days in hip hop and 380 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: was really like the first big club promoter that gave 381 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 2: jay Z his breakout start at Mad Wednesdays, which was 382 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 2: a club night she was promoting in New York City 383 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: and she went on and she's an AIDS advocate now 384 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: and I recently did a panel with her on spirituality 385 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 2: and hip hop for Martin Luther King Junior Weekend in Charlotte, 386 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: and I was so pleased to be reunited with her. 387 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: And Denise Brown, who's an incredible attorney, lives right across 388 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: the street for me now, and she started a prayer 389 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: line on Sundays every first Sunday of the month, so 390 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: we do that now. And it's just such a blessing 391 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: to still have the relationships with these women and have 392 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: really thirty years in some cases thirty plus year friendships, 393 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: and to have matured with each other and gone through things. 394 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 2: And even if you don't go through things by working 395 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 2: at the same companies, you're going through things as the 396 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 2: business of hip hop is evolving, right, because what started 397 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: out is something in street corners and parks and neighborhoods 398 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 2: is a multi billion dollar business. 399 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: And so many of you were on the ground floor 400 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: a bit. 401 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and women, we were the engine and still are 402 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 2: in very many ways, because again, you know, there's a 403 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: music side to it, and then there's a humanity and 404 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: a human side to it. So your level of support 405 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 2: and pouring into these young black men whether they're going 406 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: to become mature black business owners, and understanding what sort 407 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: of feet is in front of you in order to 408 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: do that, because we're all starting out sort of in 409 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: these white corporate structures and not really being prepared for 410 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: all those twists and turns. You know, you end up 411 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 2: really relying on women pouring into you and building you 412 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: up when the world is trying to tear you down. 413 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: So it's a lot of wear and tear, I think 414 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: personally and being committed to that. It takes valiant efforts 415 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 2: to do that, and I think that's every black woman's story. 416 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: I don't think that's specific to the music business. 417 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, so we've already 418 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: talked about hip hop celebrating fifty years this year. What 419 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: is one of the most profound ways you've seen the 420 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: genre grow during this time. 421 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 2: I think just all of the touch points. I don't 422 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: think there's anything that exists in any crevice of the 423 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: entire world that hip hop hasn't touched. I mean, it's 424 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: one of those things where and I say this in 425 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 2: my book which I'm writing right now, that for me, 426 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 2: hip hop was like big tech before big tech. Right, 427 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: it's a communication tool, it's a language tool. It reaches 428 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 2: everybody from eight to eighty. It's like there are definitely 429 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: Apple products, and hip hop was its own technology in 430 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: that way, it crossed language barriers, ethnicities. I mean, there 431 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: are people that don't even speak good English that could 432 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 2: wrap a jay Z verse in Saudi Arabia today, Sometimes 433 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: I turn on the news or I have done this 434 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 2: before and seen the local meteorologists rapping Biggie lyrics while 435 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 2: he's delivering the weather report. What else is doing that? 436 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: I don't know. I can't think of anything you. 437 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: Talked about already being at some just very defining labels 438 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: like def jam and bad boy. How do you feel 439 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: like those experiences have shaped you? 440 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: That's a good question. Well, I think they've amplified something 441 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: that was already innate to me, which is that black 442 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 2: people are important to me. Black people having success and 443 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: not being perceived as dead or in jail by the 444 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: time you're thirty, particularly black men. I think I've always 445 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 2: been motivated to defy those sorts of statements that have 446 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 2: been societal norms, if you will, which are horrible, but 447 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: we have to live with our reality, and I think 448 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,719 Speaker 2: working at those companies and being able to nurture and 449 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: foster something that was for us by us a very 450 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 2: foobu approach, if you will. I don't think there's been 451 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: anything more meaningful to me other than obviously my brother 452 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 2: and sister in law having children and stuff like that. 453 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 2: But that has never sort of fallen soft on me, 454 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: knowing that one it's a privilege too, it's a responsibility. 455 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: And three I think I was just always mission oriented 456 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: and working at labels like that just amplified those sort 457 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: of virtues, if you will. One because the leadership right 458 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: puff is young, he's black, jay Z young Black LA 459 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 2: started when he was younger and black and knowing that 460 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: there are opportunities for us to bring other young black 461 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 2: people along and into this frame and not just on 462 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 2: the mic or in front of the camera, but for 463 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: me personally, it was the whole I think language and 464 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 2: love language for me of being an executive and being 465 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: respected even though we're not paid and respected the same 466 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,439 Speaker 2: way as our peers. We're in the rooms and you 467 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: have to deal with us, and we're not ignorant, and 468 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: we do have business acumen and decorum, and there's nothing 469 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: that we can't do. 470 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: So you talked a lot about how women really were 471 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: the engine in many of these labels, but you know, 472 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: you've also shared how many of their stories have not 473 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: gotten the same shine as men. And when you think 474 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: about hip hop, I think, even still today, it feels 475 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: like a very male dominated genre. Talk to me a 476 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: little bit about what that was like working as a 477 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: black woman in the entertainment industry and maybe how you've 478 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: seen women kind of grow in the genre of hip hop. 479 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: I think it's so weird because I say this statement, 480 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 2: and really I've never really worked in any other industry, 481 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: but I've certainly have had access to other industries and 482 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 2: access to other Black women in them. I think our 483 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: plight is our plight, and it's sad. It's a universal 484 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 2: sort of plight that goes beyond the borders of vocation 485 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 2: or industry. And I hate that I'm even doubling down 486 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 2: on this statement, but it's true. It's like we are 487 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: always thought about last, and I don't think that working 488 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: in hip hop and committing yourself and pouring into black 489 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 2: men to help them become the best that they can 490 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: be at what they're doing, and knowing that you're playing 491 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: an important role on that journey. Is probably equally as 492 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: similar to me watching like my mom and my aunt 493 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 2: and my grandmother sort of rally around my dad. And 494 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 2: I think there's this innate thing with black women where 495 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: we are nurturers and we almost find that it's our 496 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: role to support these black men in their endeavors and 497 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: to make sure that they don't fall victim to these 498 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: stigmas that are always put on them. And as a 499 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 2: result of that, I think we get lost in the shuffle. 500 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: I think we kind of allow ourselves to take the 501 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 2: back seat for that reason and work really hard at 502 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 2: sort of propping them up in that way. And I 503 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: think it's awful that once they are empowered in a 504 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: certain way, I think I'd like to see more of 505 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: the generosity of that come back to women's stories being told. 506 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: Right If we're still sort of knocking on those doors 507 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 2: and they're not opening for us, then at least a 508 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: lot of the men that we helped power or be 509 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: the engine behind at these smaller companies back in the 510 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: day would leverage and use their power bases to open 511 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 2: that up a little bit more so women's stories can 512 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: be told and to make sure of that. I think 513 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: it's great when people acknowledge people, even like with what 514 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,479 Speaker 2: Riza did for me, huge, right, huge, to even not 515 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: write me out of the story and incorporate me into 516 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 2: the story. And so now I don't have to maybe 517 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: wait around for a guy to do the next step. 518 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: Hopefully I can leverage that in a way to do 519 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 2: some things and open some doors and bring some other 520 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: women with me. I mean, I'm certainly going to do that. 521 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 2: And I think that the more and more we stay unified, 522 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 2: because there's power in numbers, right. I think sometimes we 523 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: get caught up waiting a little bit like hoping and 524 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 2: expecting these guys to do for us what we did 525 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: for them, and then that doesn't come about, and it 526 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: leaves some people bitter and understand that, but you got 527 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 2: to kind of let go of that and know that 528 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 2: you know our work was not in vain. God certainly 529 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: knows what we did for his male children. And I 530 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: think our rewards are in us not letting go of 531 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: that same sort of fearless, bold spirit and not taking 532 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: no for an answer when we were supporting them for ourselves. 533 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 2: And it's hard, doctor Joy. Sometimes it's just hard to 534 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: be your own warrior, your own shier princess. You know, 535 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: you have to remember you still have those inate qualities 536 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: and to do them for yourselves and for some of 537 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: your fellow sisters. 538 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear what it has been like with 539 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: some of the lyrics. It feels like there's a very 540 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: complicated history, you know, with hip hop and some of 541 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: the sexism and misogyny. What was it like for you 542 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: as a black woman executive who's also a fan of 543 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: the genre, but also you know, understanding like, okay, what 544 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: kinds of things are selling? How did you navigate that? 545 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: That's a great question and probably hard for people to tackle. 546 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is that I wasn't 547 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: as mature clearly as I am today. So how I 548 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: view those things today is certainly different than how I 549 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: viewed them then. I mean, I was all the way 550 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: in it, so I was reciting them right along with it. 551 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: They were hitting me in ways that were mind blowing 552 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 2: and fascinating and all of those other things. And I 553 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: think I, like probably many other women, had the same mindset, 554 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: which is like, well, they're not calling me a B 555 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 2: word or I don't carry myself like that, So that 556 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: doesn't apply to me, and so you sort of like 557 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 2: distance yourself or remove yourself from it in that way. 558 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: And then I think you double down on the distancing 559 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: and removing yourself with it by saying, I know some 560 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 2: chicks like that too, And I think that was probably 561 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 2: the rationale back then, and that was I would say, 562 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: as much of a framework or scope that would even 563 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 2: have been considered right. It was so selfish, it was 564 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: so self involved. Nobody was really thinking about, oh, this 565 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: could impact our community negatively because we were just young 566 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: and rebellious, and I don't think we saw the potential 567 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 2: damage or potential harm in it. And again because your 568 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 2: scope at that point is I know some girls that 569 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 2: act just like that, you know what I mean. And 570 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 2: that's a very myopic and immature way to look at things. 571 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 2: I think now that I'm older, and now that there 572 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 2: are younger children in my family, two of which are 573 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 2: young ladies, it's like, oh my God, like I don't 574 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 2: want them rapping along with this craziness and YadA, YadA, YadA. 575 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: But I can't be hypocritical in that way, and not 576 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: because I was involved in executiving and promoting and being 577 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 2: behind some of it. But because I was their age 578 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 2: and I was singing it too, and I enjoyed it 579 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: while I was singing along with it. And so if anything, 580 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 2: I think for me now at this particular age, I'm 581 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: always there to be wisdom for someone who's gone through 582 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 2: some things. But I won't sit in a seat of 583 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: scorn or judgment. I just won't do it. And I 584 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: guess if I had to look back on my life, 585 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,879 Speaker 2: then I don't have regrets about it at all. I'm 586 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 2: definitely like girl, you was a piece of work. 587 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break. Unfortunately, we've seen 588 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: it feels like a disproportionate number of stars we've lost 589 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: from the hip hop community. So going back to like 590 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: Biggie and Pack, but even more recently with people like 591 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: Nipsey Hustle and Pop Smoke, I'm curious if you can 592 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: share how people behind the scenes, like the executives and 593 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: people in the offices that we don't see in the 594 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: videos and stuff, how are they impacted when losses like 595 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: this happened in the industry. 596 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: It's extremely devastating. I mean, there are many of us, 597 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 2: myself included, we never really got over Biggie and Pak 598 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: we're reminded of it all the time, and I think 599 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: fast forward to what we've seen now. It really bothers 600 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: me so much because we can't turn a blind eye 601 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: to knowing that our era, the nineties era, we ushered 602 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: a lot of this in now we didn't necessarily want 603 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: it to take up the kind of residency that it did, 604 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 2: But I don't know if we ever did a good 605 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 2: enough job of curtailing it from getting out of control 606 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,919 Speaker 2: the way we see it now. And I think again, 607 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 2: it's that fine line you have to walk because be 608 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: a hypocrite. Right, Like what I would have thought and 609 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 2: hoped would have happened is once people saw the level 610 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 2: of danger, you don't want to perpetuate the stereotype, and 611 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 2: you certainly don't want to become the stereotype. And I 612 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: think there's always been a very fine line with that. 613 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: But it's also you don't want to censor people who 614 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: are living through this all the time. And I think 615 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: what needs to happen is that there needs to be 616 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 2: a better degree of balance. There has to be some 617 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 2: way where people are letting people know that I don't 618 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: live this though. I like go home to a nice 619 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 2: home and I'm looking to change my life and my 620 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 2: lifestyle to evolve away from that, and I think there 621 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: needs to really be real dialogue about that. I think 622 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: ignoring it is not going to do anything but allow 623 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 2: us to continue to see these things. And I think 624 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 2: people need to be mindful also now that we're older 625 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 2: in sort of what things are going on in the country, 626 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 2: in the world. Right now, we are really in a 627 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:22,959 Speaker 2: state of inflation and impoverished situations that we haven't really 628 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 2: seen since the eighties. Right It really feels like that 629 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways. So I think rather than 630 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 2: sitting in our ivory towers where life is good now, 631 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: there has to be some sort of communication. And back 632 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 2: in those days we did see things like that. Sadly, 633 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 2: not too long before the East Coast West Coast situation happened, 634 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: Quincy Jones and Clarence Avon they did bring us into 635 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 2: a huge meeting at the Peninsula Hotel in New York 636 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 2: and everybody was there. Shat Him and Latifa were there 637 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: representing Flavor Unit. Puff was in there representing early stage 638 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 2: bad Boy sug was there, Death Row I was there 639 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: as an executive. April Walker was there. Who's another woman 640 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: that I adore who I came up with in the 641 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: hip hop business, who is a female designer of men's 642 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 2: street wear. And you need governance around some of these things, 643 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 2: and sometimes you do need elder statesman leadership. And I 644 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 2: would love to see our generation do a better job 645 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 2: of becoming that for this generation and bridging that gap 646 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: by having some of these tough conversations again and just 647 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 2: have real talk, right, because you can't come off like 648 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 2: you're a get off my lawn or sitting in judgment 649 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 2: because we lived it too, and look what happened to us. 650 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,280 Speaker 2: Now we've seen this to your point, doctor Joy happen 651 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 2: at a rate that's even more expedient and a vast 652 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 2: more amount of young people being killed like this. And 653 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: then you have to have like conversations with the managers. 654 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 2: And that's what Quincy in them did. There were managers 655 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 2: in the room, there were label heads in the room, 656 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 2: there were producers in the room, there are artists in 657 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: the room. Because the community can only heal the community itself. 658 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 2: It has to be from the inside out, not any 659 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 2: other way around. And sometimes you need leadership and guardrails 660 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 2: and experience is the best teacher. I think knowing that 661 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 2: we went through it and we didn't get it all 662 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: the way right. And I think starting the conversation for 663 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 2: hitting that note out the gate, I think that can 664 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 2: neutralize that energy of a boy here come to old 665 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 2: heads trying to tell us what to do and they 666 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 2: didn't even do it. No, we owe you an apology. 667 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 2: We owe you an apology. 668 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: What has self care looked like for you as you 669 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: have been in the industry, and how has that evolved 670 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: during your time? 671 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: Well, really staying on social media, Like I was so 672 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 2: committed and lived so much of my life at a 673 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 2: j traveling studios Da da Da, Da da, that I 674 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 2: think on the other side of the zeitgeist of my career, 675 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 2: self care was really about just detaching, taking time to breathe, read, 676 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 2: walk Where I live. I live on the water, and 677 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 2: I lived down here for so long, but I was 678 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 2: always traveling, never home, always driving to appointments in and 679 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 2: out of the city, flying all around. And God's beauty 680 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: of nature has been sitting in my backyard for all 681 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 2: these years, and I just finally started like enjoying it 682 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: and going for runs and walks and just being reminded 683 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 2: that one we're not as important as we think we 684 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: are because we can't do any of this. We can't 685 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 2: create an ocean, we can't create a sky, And I 686 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 2: think just getting back to a very granular level of 687 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 2: appreciating the most remarkable things that we just take for 688 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,240 Speaker 2: granted so much, and forgiving my younger self for making 689 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 2: the mistakes that I made. You hold yourself to such 690 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 2: high standards, and when you fall short, you don't realize 691 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 2: that everybody falls short, right, and that being able to 692 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 2: free yourself from that. I think people would agree that 693 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 2: they probably felt like I was hard on them at 694 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 2: many times, just wanting the best for them, one of 695 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 2: the best for myself, one of the best for our people, 696 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: and it's okay, you're gonna make mistakes and you're not 697 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 2: gonna get everything right, and if God gives you grace 698 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 2: to come back from mistakes, then you have to be 699 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 2: able to give yourself the grace. 700 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: So you've already kind of started talking about this a lot. 701 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: But we've seen some new stories being told from women 702 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: in hip hop right. So we had the on the 703 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: Record documentary with Drew Dixon detailing, you know, her experiences 704 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: with sexual assault, and then we saw rap Caviar Presents 705 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: talking all about the city girls and like their kind 706 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: of experiences in the field. What stories of women in 707 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: the industry have not been told yet. 708 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 2: I think that the stories that you know I had 709 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 2: mentioned beforehand, which is like the executive prowess of a 710 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 2: lot of the women in the music industry, and really 711 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 2: the stories of business women. Right there are so many 712 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: things that business women or women sorry in the business 713 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 2: that have done to upgrade things about the business for 714 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 2: hip hop artists. I mean, my good friend Ronda that 715 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, I remember MTV like would it play 716 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 2: a jay Z video? And what it meant for her 717 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 2: to have to go over there and convince them otherwise, 718 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 2: because I mean, again, this is a network that didn't 719 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 2: originally play a Michael Jackson video either, So that dialogue 720 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 2: continued as it related to hip hop, and I think 721 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,879 Speaker 2: just breaking down a lot of those barriers and being 722 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 2: able to have seats at tables and leverage things and 723 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 2: and create a bigger footprint for hip hop as a 724 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,360 Speaker 2: business had a lot to do with conversations that women 725 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 2: were having, because what happens a lot of times at 726 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 2: these organizations is that there is a female counterpart that 727 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 2: does what you do that is probably a white woman, 728 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 2: but she's a woman nonetheless, And I think that there's 729 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 2: something to be said about fostering and nurturing those relationships 730 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 2: because then you can have someone who might not be 731 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 2: a person of color like you, but being a woman 732 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 2: and you're a woman. There's an appreciation, I think of 733 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,839 Speaker 2: what it is that you're up against and what it 734 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 2: is that you're trying to do. So it's great to 735 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,720 Speaker 2: have an advocate within these scenarios. And I think those 736 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 2: sorts of stories need to be highlighted because I think 737 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 2: people are oftentimes really surprised when they hear about a 738 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 2: woman being behind a signing method, man or engineering a 739 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 2: hip hop record that went on to be a classic, 740 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 2: or managing the producers that produced these classic beats of 741 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 2: these classic albums. I think there is so many amazing 742 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 2: stories like that, and I think it would encourage women 743 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 2: in the business that are maybe looking to get into 744 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,919 Speaker 2: it and start out, encourage them and create a little 745 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 2: bit of a road mapping and a blueprint, because one 746 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 2: thing I learned very long ago from doing A and 747 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,680 Speaker 2: R was that everybody is not intended to grab a 748 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 2: mic or be on a video or sing or rap 749 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 2: or dance, and there's a whole gene pool and community 750 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,080 Speaker 2: of opportunities for women behind the scenes, in and around 751 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 2: the scenes, and I think there needs to be an 752 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 2: elevated discussion around that, more access and more storytelling, for sure. 753 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: Can we expect some of that in your book? 754 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. One hundred percent. 755 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: We'll be on the lookout for when comes out. So 756 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: I want to wrap up with some rapid fire questions 757 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: from you because I feel like these will be such 758 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,839 Speaker 1: great answers. So this is called what are you listening to? 759 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: Hip hop? Addition, which nineties are two thousands female hip 760 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: hop artists? Would you like to see release an album 761 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,399 Speaker 1: this year or next year? 762 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 2: What nineties? 763 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: Lauren Hill Ooh, okay, that's a good one. That's a 764 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: good one. What's a song that brightens up your day? 765 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 2: Sounds of Blackness Optimistic? 766 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 1: Oh, that's one of my favorites too. Do you like 767 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: the remake with Brandy and I think some other people? Yeah, 768 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: but the original is a good one too. What's a 769 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 1: project that you worked on that you describe as foundational 770 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: to your career? 771 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,959 Speaker 2: Hmmm, I would say Rihanna's first project, Music of the Sun. 772 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So what do you feel like makes a 773 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: hip hop album culturally and artistically significant? And based on 774 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: your answer to that, what is the greatest hip hop 775 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,720 Speaker 1: album of all time? 776 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 2: Okay? The authenticity of it? I think the authenticity of 777 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 2: the narrator or the author of said story, and the 778 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:14,959 Speaker 2: ability to tell the story and connect with people who 779 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,799 Speaker 2: have similar stories or similar things that they're experiencing. So 780 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 2: it's authenticity and storytelling. 781 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 1: So based on those qualities, then what would be your 782 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,080 Speaker 1: choice for greatest hip hop album of all time? 783 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,800 Speaker 2: See Doctor Joy? We done hit a cog in the wheel. 784 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,799 Speaker 2: I can't It's such a difficult thing for me to do. Like, 785 00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 2: there's so many. 786 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,840 Speaker 1: Okay, top three, Doctor Joy, you can't choose. It's like 787 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: choosing a favorite. 788 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,840 Speaker 2: Child that you already know that if you have three kids, 789 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 2: you're already out the game trying to figure out, you know, 790 00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,839 Speaker 2: narrowing it down. I will say that albums hip hop 791 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 2: albums that impacted me. I mean, obviously I'm gonna echo 792 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 2: my very first answer of wanting Laurence Hill to do 793 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 2: another album. But the Miseducation of Laurence Hill was everything, everything, everything. 794 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,160 Speaker 2: I don't think there's any girl that grew up hip 795 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 2: hop in the nineties, that would argue that Tripo Quest, 796 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 2: the low End Theory, Wu Tang, thirty six Chambers, the 797 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 2: Great Adventures of Slickeric. There's so many monumental giant hip 798 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,320 Speaker 2: hop albums. Speaker Box and A Love Below a Quemini, 799 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 2: I mean, both of Outcasts albums are just so signature 800 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 2: and so rich. The Far Side had a Dope album. 801 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 2: I mean, there's so, so, so, so, so many, and 802 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 2: that is the beauty that is hip hop, right because 803 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 2: sonically and dynamically they're all very, very different and very nuanced, 804 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 2: because they're true to each and every artist who made 805 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 2: them and where they came from, whatever sector of the 806 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 2: globe that they came from, and you feel that. And 807 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 2: even if you didn't grow up in that era in Atlanta, 808 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 2: you could listen to those albums and have that experience. 809 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, Okay, so that was a beautiful list. That 810 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: was a great list. So who is an artist in 811 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: the bad Boy family you'd love to work with? Again? 812 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 2: Ooh, that is a good question. I adored working with 813 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 2: Faith Evans. I love me some Dune Away, got it. 814 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,360 Speaker 1: That's a good choice. And then a bit of a 815 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,479 Speaker 1: throwback to Love Jones, When did you fall in love 816 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: with hip hop? 817 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,399 Speaker 2: Honestly, as a youngster, I think I must have been 818 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 2: maybe eleven or twelve years old, because I grew up 819 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,359 Speaker 2: in Teaneck, New Jersey, and a neighboring town for us 820 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 2: was a town called Angle with New Jersey and the 821 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 2: sugar Hill Gang and the sugar Hill Records and the 822 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 2: family were neighbors and became family friends of ours. So 823 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 2: I remember, I think, going to their studio on West 824 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 2: Street in Englewood with my dad, who was going to 825 00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 2: see mister Robinson. And I remember seeing missus Robinson in 826 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 2: a studio room sitting behind a console. And it's not 827 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 2: like I was like, Oh, I want to be like 828 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 2: her one day. Immediately, I think I was fascinated by 829 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,560 Speaker 2: seeing this office, this studio local to me in New 830 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 2: Jersey in the suburbs, that was behind like Rapper's Delight 831 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 2: and the message. And I think what it did say 832 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 2: to me is if I wanted to do this, I 833 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 2: could do this one day because of her. 834 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,360 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Thank you for that, Tracy. 835 00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,880 Speaker 1: This has been such an incredible conversation. I know people 836 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 1: are going to want to stay connected with you and 837 00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: like pick up their copy of the book once it 838 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,800 Speaker 1: comes out. Where can we find you online? What is 839 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: your website? As well as any social media handles you 840 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 1: want to share. 841 00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,320 Speaker 2: So it's interesting. I'm not like personally on social media 842 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 2: by choice. But what I did do is I started 843 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 2: an Instagram page called Face the Music. So it's face 844 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 2: face the thche music mus dot ic right the music, 845 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 2: get it, Muse, we're music. They might not tell you 846 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,000 Speaker 2: that we are, but we are. And that actually is 847 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 2: the title of my memoir. It's called face to Music. 848 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 2: So I'm trying, doctor Joy. 849 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 1: Yes, you got to give the people somewhere to go. 850 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 2: The marketer in me is like, all right, girl, now 851 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,600 Speaker 2: you know you're gonna have to get with the times 852 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,359 Speaker 2: for that aspect of it. But yeah, I just got 853 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 2: real low, doctor Joy, after committing almost thirty years to 854 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,320 Speaker 2: that business, I got real low. But I am very 855 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 2: excited about the things that we're doing on our page. 856 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,320 Speaker 2: And it's a community page, which is amazing because again 857 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 2: the best thing about being in hip hop is being 858 00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 2: a part of the hip hop community. 859 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: We would be sure to include that in the show notes. 860 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Tracy. 861 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 2: It is my absolute pleasure. I love what it is 862 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:13,000 Speaker 2: you're doing. I think there's nothing more important than therapeutics 863 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 2: mental wellness, psychological and emotional health, and strength and stability, 864 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 2: and it has to get destigmatized in and around hip 865 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,840 Speaker 2: hop and music, and there needs to be more people 866 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 2: that are incorporating that almost as a prerequisite to staffing 867 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,000 Speaker 2: and personnel within these labels. These are human beings, they 868 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,720 Speaker 2: have human frailties, They come with their own traumas, sometimes 869 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,840 Speaker 2: from childhood, and it cannot be ignored anymore. 870 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that, Tracy. I really appreciate it. 871 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Joy. This has been absolutely one of 872 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 2: the highlights for me ever. I love what you're doing 873 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:51,760 Speaker 2: so much. 874 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for spending some time with us. 875 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,120 Speaker 1: I want to thank Tracy once again for joining us 876 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,880 Speaker 1: for this episode. To learn more about her and the 877 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,680 Speaker 1: work she's doing. Be sure to visit the show notes 878 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:08,240 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session three sixteen, 879 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: and be sure to text two of your girls right 880 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: now and encourage them to check out the episode. If 881 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, check out 882 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. 883 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,200 Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic 884 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,440 Speaker 1: or just be in community with other sisters, come on 885 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our 886 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,920 Speaker 1: cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women. 887 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,520 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot Therapy for Blackgirls 888 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 1: dot com. This episode was produced by Frida Lucas, Elise Ellis, 889 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: and Zaria Taylor. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank 890 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I 891 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,720 Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. 892 00:52:55,320 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 1: Take good care. But what