WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: TechStuff Gets MegaUploaded 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.880 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:17.040 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 I Heart Radio and a lot of all things tech. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.439 And it is time for a classic episode. That means 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:28.120 it must be Friday. Let's celebrate, and then we're gonna 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.839 celebrate by getting mega uploaded. This episode originally aired on 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:37.280 November two thousand twelve. Chris Pallette and I talked about 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:42.120 the service mega upload, which right around that time was 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.080 getting shut down. So what's the story behind it? Well, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.479 let's find out. Today. We wanted to talk about a 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.880 controversial subject, a couple of different controversial subjects. There's a 0:00:54.920 --> 0:01:00.360 mega controversy, yes, mega upload, and uh, any of you 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.560 have probably heard about mega upload. Some of you may 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.680 have even used the service. Some of you may be 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.440 going to mega upload dot com right now and wondering 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.399 if you're in trouble because you see that there's a 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.080 big takedown notice where the site used to be. But 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.360 we wanted to talk about what it is, what the 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.000 controversy is around it, what the various legal issues are 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.560 surrounding it, and a lot about the Uh. I guess 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:29.840 flamboyant is an appropriate word, uh, head of mega upload 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:35.440 Kim dot com. Yes, um, yeah, So I guess we 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.240 can start off why not at the beginning, back in 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.520 two thousand five kim dot com. And when I say 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.080 at the beginning, I'll go back further than this. Later 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.800 on we talked about the legal issues. But he founded 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.960 a site uh turned out to be a family of sites, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.280 but we tend to just call it mega upload. And 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:01.320 the idea behind this was kind of like a very 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:07.360 specific implementation of cloud storage. So the idea was that 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.280 users could upload files to this service, mega upload, and 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:17.079 then allow other people to download those files and on 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:21.400 its own. If that's all we say, that's not there's 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:27.000 nothing controversial about that. That's just a method of distributing data. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.880 The problem comes in as to the nature of that 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:35.560 data and whether or not that data had any intellectual 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.720 property rights associated with it. That perhaps the user who 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.000 uploaded the file did not have access to our authorization 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:46.880 to uh to distribute that file, and that's the crux 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.360 of the problem. So mega upload is what we call 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.160 locker site. Yes, and you you create a locker where 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.799 you upload the files other people can download them and uh, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.919 and there are some interesting things about mega upload. For example, uh, 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.920 uploading a file didn't guarantee that that file was going 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:09.960 to be stored there forever. Uh. The the service would 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.680 actually delete files out of its storage if they were 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:17.840 not being downloaded enough. At least, that was sort of 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.480 the That was the allegation that the United States government 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.920 made against Mega upload when building its case. They said 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.760 that in order for a file to be hosted, it 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.800 had to be popular, it had to reach a certain 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.800 threshold of popularity, and if people stopped downloading it, the 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.160 file would no longer be hosted on mega upload. UM. 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:39.240 So that's kind of a way of to conserve space. 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.720 You know, the files that are really popular stay available. 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:45.680 Files no one seems to want go away, and you 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.280 don't have to worry about hosting a file forever. Because 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.160 of course, the more popular the site got, the larger 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:58.640 its um requirements were to for for hosting space because 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.240 I mean, these digital files are taking up hard drive 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.760 space somewhere on servers, so you have to be able to, 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.680 uh to meet that demand. And one way of doing 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.680 that is to phase out any files that are not 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:19.479 particularly sought after. Yeah, now, you might be saying, you know, well, 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:26.719 how is this different from something like dropbox or perhaps YouTube? Um? 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.919 And there are big differences, um, because some of the 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:36.120 charges that have been filed basically accused the people behind 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:39.040 mega upload. UM. Kim dot com is sort of the 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.120 face of mega upload, but the he had a handful 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:47.000 of partners who were closely were you know, working on 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.839 it with him, very closely. UM. So the people behind 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:55.400 mega upload have been charged with basically, um, not only 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.760 providing storage space, but knowing what was in that storage 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:06.560 space and encouraging people to upload popular content which may 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:10.839 or may not have been UM, you know, stuff that 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.920 violated copyright. And that's really that that's you know, the question. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.520 Those are the questions that you know, how how far 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.880 did it go? Right? The allegations. The allegations actually go 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.960 so far as to claim that the the owners of 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:29.560 mega upload paid out money to people in order to 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.640 encourage them to upload popular files. And by popular, we're 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.880 talking about stuff that violates intellectual property. Uh. When you 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.000 when you just say popular, that could be anything. But 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.919 in the case that was brought against mega upload and 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:48.320 its founders, they're specifically talking about things like movies or music. Really, 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.200 movies is the big one. But it's not just movies, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.240 it's television and music as well. Saying all right, well 0:05:54.880 --> 0:06:00.520 there are people uploading entire libraries of files to your site. Uh, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.880 they don't have the authorization to do that. People are 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:09.480 essentially using mega upload to perpetuate piracy. And so ultimately, 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.839 and when you look at this, you can figure out 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:17.599 there are certain industries that are very much pushing for 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.480 action against mega upload. It's it's pretty safe to say 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:26.840 that this was not just a government agency saying, oh, 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:28.600 here's a bad guy, we need to go after him. 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.960 This these are industries that are using political pressure to 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.359 go after a company that they see as a threat 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:40.680 to their business model. Then, in itself is not necessarily 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.799 a bad thing. You want to protect your business, you know, otherwise, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.800 if you don't protect your business, you go out of business. However, 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:53.239 there are some questions as to the execution of this 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.640 and whether or not it oversteps bounds. For example, a 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.360 mega upload we haven't mentioned this yet. It is a company. 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.839 It's a company that's based the company itself is based 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.839 out of Hong Kong. So that raises some questions because 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.400 it's the United States that's primarily going after Kim dot 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.960 com and the other people behind Mega upload, and the 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.400 United States does not have jurisdiction in Hong Kong. On 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.080 top of that, Kim dot com and the other people 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.960 who were rounded up we'll talk about the round up 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.520 in a second. They were all in New Zealand. Also, 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:37.720 last I checked, not within the jurisdiction of the United States. Um. 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.440 Pretty sure. I mean I could be wrong. It could 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.960 be that in the Hobbit, I'll see that, you know, 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:47.440 federal agents are knocking down the enemy's door and uh 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:53.600 and in Mirkwood spoiler alert, but it would surprise me. Um. However, 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.280 some of the company's servers were based here in the 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.280 United States. That that was one thing. Yeah, but that 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.560 was done on purpose. Us. Um, why was that done 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.760 on purpose? Well, remember when I mentioned YouTube a few 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.680 minutes ago. Um will YouTube? From time to time people 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:17.280 upload content to the site that infringes on someone's copyright. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.160 You know, they take and rip a movie and stick 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:24.920 it on YouTube, which is pretty much blatantly illegal. The 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:29.160 thing is, what the idea is that under current UH 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.920 United States law, the copyright owner can contact YouTube and 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.520 say hey, take that down, and YouTube is supposed to 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.440 take it down and and Kim Kim dot com has 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.080 said that Mega upload did that. Um. Now see there 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.640 there's there's what is called safe Haven, which was part 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.360 of the d m c A Digital Millennium right, and 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.160 basically it says, hey, look, you know you're providing the 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:58.280 storage space online. That doesn't make you necessarily wiable for 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.800 what people do with that space. If they put uh 0:09:02.080 --> 0:09:05.760 material up there that infringes upon someone's copyright. As long 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.480 as you take it down when you're asked to by 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.160 the copyright holder, that's not it's not your fault that 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.520 that people do that. What they're saying that Mega upload did, however, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.880 was um basically not only uh host that they didn't 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.360 necessarily take it down immediately upon being asked. They might 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.520 have been selective in what they took down, and they 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:31.960 were encouraging people to post popular content. So they're saying, no, 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.240 you guys don't qualify for safe Haven. This is completely different. 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.920 And they're being brought up on criminal charges yeum, which 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.920 is different than a simple lawsuit. Hey, we're suing you 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.600 because you did not take this down. Yeah. The the 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.680 d m c A is very uh it lays this 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.840 out in a very specific way that the ideas that 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.520 it will protect the service providers so that they are 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:01.160 not um shouldered with all the responsibility for providing what 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.760 is a valuable service to people who might use it 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.960 in ways for which it was not intended or in 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.040 illegal ways. Uh. So you can argue whether or not 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.320 Mega upload was intended for illegal use or not. That's 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:17.920 in fact the federal federal officials are very much making 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.280 that argument. But UH, for the d m c A 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.599 to apply for that safe haven to apply, the the 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:31.959 owners of the service cannot knowingly host illegal material. They 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.480 are told about the illegal material, they have to remove it. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.720 One of the allegations against Kim dot Com and Mega 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:41.000 upload is that when they were told about illegal material, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.079 what they would do is remove a link to that 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.160 illegal material, but they would not remove the file itself. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.800 So in other words, the file still exists on mega upload. 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.200 They just removed whatever link was reported. Well, the way 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.560 mega upload worked was that if you were to try 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:58.760 and upload a file, let's say that let's say Chris 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.000 and I have decide did to uh to throw caution 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.280 to the wind and embrace our darker natures and to 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:11.480 UH to dive headfirst into the world of illicit film 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.840 trading online. And so Chris and I both have the 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:18.400 same idea at the same time. We have both decided 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.400 that now is the time for us to upload a 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.559 copy of the Steven Spielberg Mega hit Howard the Duck. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.000 And so Chris uploads Howard the Duck before I do 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.600 because he has a better internet connection. So that Howard 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.680 the Duck file, that specific hash gets uploaded up to 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.480 mega upload, and then I do the same thing. Now, 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.880 the file that I'm using is based off the same 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.120 one that Chris made, so it's got the same data, 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.840 same everything. When I uploaded mega upload, looks and says, oh, 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.800 wait a minute, I've already got this file. So instead 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.720 of uploading this to your locker, why don't you would 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.280 you prefer it if we just um linked to it 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.079 and added another link to the already existing file because 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:03.679 it's the same information. This way, you don't have to 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.760 upload the whole thing. You just add the link. And 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.640 you say, because you don't want to have to come 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.559 up your internet connection all that time, or I say, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.280 in this case, because it's using my example, I said, sure, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.440 just put the link in. Well, the complaint. One of 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.600 the complaints that the FEDS made against Mega upload is 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.760 that if you were the content owner if you're the 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.080 intellectual property rights owner of Howard the Duck of the 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.240 film Howard the Duck, and you wanted to protect it, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.680 and you saw that there was a link to a 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.559 mega upload locker that contained that movie, you would send 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.720 that complaint to mega upload and then they would apparently 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:47.000 remove the link, the specific link you mentioned. However, I 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.280 also have a link to that content. It's a different link. 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.880 It's the same file, which means that because they did 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.000 not delete the file itself, there's still a pathway to 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.439 get to that file. All they did was close off path, 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.280 but they left another path open. That's the allegation. That's 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:08.079 what the federals, federal officers are saying. They're saying, well, yeah, 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.720 you would remove this link, but the file still existed 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.720 and there were still other links to that file, so 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.600 you didn't solve the problem. All you did was close 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.960 one door, but there were you know, however, other many 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.920 doors open, so people could still get to it and 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.160 the problem was not fixed. Um, so that's that's one 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:31.319 of the main arguments here. Now, the way this all 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.200 went down was way back on January twelve. Uh. Do 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.080 you remember January two thousand twelve, fact, when we were 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.120 wondering if Apple was going to have an iPad three 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.400 and no idea that they would also have an iPod 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:49.760 pot iPad four that same year. Um, that's just a 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.440 light dig. So on January nine, the Department of Justice 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.199 seized the UH mega upload dot com site and all 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.360 of its family of sites like mega video and things 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.280 like that, and they shut it down and they began 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:11.280 to pursue a criminal case against the owners and operators 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:16.880 of that site. On January two thousand twelve, Hong Kong 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:22.720 Customs ended up freezing assets belonging to the company and 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:28.640 on that On January twenty, in New Zealand, UH New 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:35.480 Zealand police, acting under the the direction of United States 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:41.280 federal officers, led a raid against a mansion that was 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:46.320 being leased by Kim dot com UM and had happened 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.600 to have several other mega upload people there at the 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.120 time because they were celebrating his birthday, so they timed 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:58.520 it out to raid on his birthday. Uh. They went in. 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:05.479 They seized around seventeen million dollars worth of assets, including vehicles, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:10.400 and art, so stuff that was not related directly to 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.960 the website. But the federal officers claim that these are 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.480 things that Kim dot Com bought through money laundering and 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:25.200 other means. Um specifically that that allegation that Mega upload 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:30.520 paid people to upload illegal material to their site. Um. 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:32.760 And if you're wondering how does Mega upload make money, 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.080 because we didn't really talk about that. There's two ways 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.760 you could be a subscriber, but that's really the kind 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.880 of a minor way that they generate revenue. They mostly 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.720 generate rate revenue through ads. Well, they serve up ads 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.360 over when when you're downloading, that's when the ads get 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.360 served to you. So if you download a file, that's 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.200 when you start seeing these ads. So there's an incentive 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.280 to provide as many downloads as possible because the more 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.640 downloads there are, the more ads Mega upload serves, the 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.680 more money it gets. So that's where a lot of 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.080 this cash came from. So uh that that all went 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:13.960 down on January and went pretty quickly, but dot com 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.880 and was not resting. He hired on some lawyers and 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.240 began to fight back against the actions taken against him 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.080 and against Mega Upload. So March five, two thousand twelve, 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.560 the United States files for an extradition request for in 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:32.920 New Zealand courts, saying we want to extradite him to 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.160 the US and try him there for crimes. Keeping in 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:40.000 mind again Hong Kong Company New Zealand resident actually New 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.400 Zealand citizen. He he I guess resident is the right word. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.480 He did apply for residency and was granted it. He's 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.520 actually German, German born. Yeah, what you could tell by 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:52.720 the dot com last name. Actually he changed that name. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.240 He changed that name partially because of his his childhood. Yeah, 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.200 he was. He was. His original name is Kim Schmitz. 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:04.960 And actually his his past is definitely one of the 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:09.040 reasons why there's so much interest in him and why 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.960 I think, uh, the United States government felt fairly confident 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.480 going after him because he he is not He doesn't 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:19.119 have a squeaky clean past. He was he was tried 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:25.080 for embezzlement. He was a teenage internet sensation in the 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.320 sense and like an investment sensation, and was was accused 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:35.879 of with charges of insider trading and get up, sorry, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.440 keep trying to interrupt. Go ahead, I shouldn't I apologize? 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.520 Please do um, there's a great article in Wired magazine 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.520 and on Wired dot Com about him that Charles Graber wrote, Um, 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:54.359 actually brought the dead Tree version with me to it. Um, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.520 But yeah, it's definitely it's a really did you read 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.359 this in your research? Um? I thought it was a 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:05.600 really good balanced article because it talks about some of 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.680 his more positive, you know, attempts to be more positive 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.159 and some of his past which has been you know, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:12.959 not always on the up and up. I mean he 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.920 in school, he wasn't really a dedicated student. He preferred 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.000 to uh apparently likes to sleep late, and he liked 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.199 to skip class and sleep in basically, but he got 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.640 an interested in computers when he was a teenager and 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.920 and really embraced it. He took off with it. Yeah. 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.640 He he hacked into some pretty uh pretty notable systems 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:39.200 like NASA. Yeah. Well, so he's he's definitely got h 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.240 He's definitely got a history of being somewhat of a 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.760 mischief maker. Um. But he got a good scare when 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.520 he was a kid too. He got in trouble with 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.879 the law and uh, basically I get the sense, or 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.440 at least the article paints him as somebody who, uh say, 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.320 you know, once he got done with that, said hey, 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.560 I I really don't want to mess with this again, 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.359 but the thing is too He also and this also 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.840 does not paint or did not did not help him 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:12.240 with this um recent arrest. And uh, he kind of 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.840 paints himself as a high roller gangster type. Yeah, he's 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:21.160 that seventeen million dollars with the art some of those 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.080 cars that they see, he's like some of the cars 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.479 were hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for an 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.840 individual car. One of his associates said, hey, you know, 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.200 we have a big car with a license plate that 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.560 says mafia on it. But we're we're fooling around. We're 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:40.640 not serious about that stuff, right, But the government it's 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.119 organized crime. They're doing it on purpose. They're thinking of 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.880 it as like giant toys. He also had a helicopter. 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.959 I mean, he had lots of stuff. We're gonna pause 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.800 this mega upload for a moment in order to take 0:19:52.960 --> 0:20:05.120 a word from our sponsor. On April thirty, two thousand twelve, UH, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:10.480 a New Zealand judge found that some of the assets 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:15.000 in that raid were improperly seized and that paperwork was 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.320 not correctly filed and as a result, they returned about 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.879 seven fifty thousand dollars worth of assets to um to 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.919 dot Com, who, by the way, was having some problems 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.560 getting bail for a while, not not having not coming 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.200 up with the money, but just getting the the option 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.399 of being able to post bail. Judge initially denied him that, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.199 saying that because he had a helicopter and because he 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.399 was a man of pretty uh substantial means that he 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.320 was a flight risk, and also citing his past as well, 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.520 uh where he had a little bit of a history 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.520 of hopping around a bit uh apparently to dodge authorities 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:03.760 and investigations. Uh. But and another judge found later they said, well, yeah, 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.200 but we seized all his assets. He's not going anywhere, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.400 so we're going to grant him the option to post Bailuh. 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.960 So that that did change well April three, when he 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.679 got about seven or fifty dollars worth of the assets returned, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.719 including several of the cars. So it's not like it 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:22.040 was just a big suitcase full of cash. H June 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:26.080 two thousand twelve, New Zealand judge ruled that the search 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.480 warrants were dot COM's property were not valid because they 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:34.160 were too general. Yeah, yeah. And in addition to that, 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.439 there has been a question over whether UM or not 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.000 the use of force that not not that you know, 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.760 they shot their way in, but they came in with 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:52.240 weapons and things that we're not supposedly allowed against UM 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:56.240 citizens of New Zealand. So there is some question as 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:00.640 to that that that not only were the warrants not 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.400 specific enough, but whether or not that the use of 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.840 the techniques that they used during the raid on his house, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.920 whether that was appropriate and and they kicked the door 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:14.960 down basically yeah. Well, and dot Com for his part, 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.880 retreated to a safe room inside his house and apparently 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:22.160 had a couple of firearms in there with him, which 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:26.720 made it made it look not good. He didn't he 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.720 apparently was not holding the weapons, but he would have 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.679 had access to them. And his response was that he 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.920 thought that, you know, he didn't know what to think 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.960 because all these people were trying to break into his home, 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.120 so he retreated to the safe room in his house. Uh. 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.520 The UM the officers say that he was trying trying 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:53.160 to escape and or delete incriminating evidence. Yea. They claimed 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:56.200 that he had a basically a panic button that would 0:22:56.240 --> 0:23:00.800 have erased all of MEGA uploads files and he hold 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:07.560 out will he hold out candy like button good times Well. 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:11.160 In July tenth, two thousand twelve, the extradition hearings were 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:16.520 deferred until March two thousand thirteen, and New Zealand judge 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:21.280 said the United States must prove that he was aware 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:25.000 of and supporting internet piracy to support an extradition claim, 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:29.919 and then on September two twelve, the Prime Minister of 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:33.320 New Zealand called for an investigation to determine if government 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.720 officials had been spying on dot Com and his associates illegally. 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:42.680 So it's a very thorny uh issue as far as 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.760 the laws concerned. In fact, it gets even more complicated. 0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:50.760 There are some who say uh, some being dot COM's 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.600 lawyer really, who say that the United States case against 0:23:54.640 --> 0:24:00.960 dot Com is attempting to use civil complaints as a 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.639 criminal charge, which that that's not how that works. Civil 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:06.960 courts and criminal courts in the United States. That's those 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.800 are two different things. But that at least some of 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:14.359 the case against dot Com is uh is based in 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:16.960 would be based in a civil court, not a criminal court, 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:21.000 and yet they're using it as a criminal charge against 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.320 him and other parts of the criminal charges would depend 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:27.720 wholly upon how that civil case played out, so they 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.359 can't If that's in fact true, they would not be 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:36.640 able to uh to to lay these charges against dot 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.480 Com until after the civil case was tried and there 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:44.440 was an outcome. UM. I think it's more complex from there. 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:48.800 So it's it's uh, it says, a messy, messy situation, 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.280 and as of the recording of this podcast, we can't 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:54.280 be sure what the outcome is going to be. UH. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:57.040 There have been there's been more fallout from this beyond 0:24:57.200 --> 0:25:03.200 just the press. UM. Anonymous decided to get involved UM, 0:25:03.240 --> 0:25:06.800 which is kind of hard to say because Anonymous is 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:10.400 such a vaguely defined group that it could be two 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:13.320 people and Anonymous who want to do something and then 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:17.760 the entire group gets uh UM pointed at as saying 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.520 they're the ones responsible. Now, it could very well be 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.960 that of Anonymous all was behind us, or even a 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:26.679 percent was behind it, but by the very nature of 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:31.399 the group, which is a decentralized activist group, you can't 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:36.399 be sure, which is part of what protects them. Well. Anyway, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:40.359 some people apparently belonging to Anonymous, at least according to 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.639 those who are looking into this, and it could be 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:46.920 that that's all not true as well. UM started to 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:51.639 launch attacks against websites UM, particularly websites belonging to the 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:54.399