1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and a lot of all things tech. 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: And it is time for a classic episode. That means 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: it must be Friday. Let's celebrate, and then we're gonna 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: celebrate by getting mega uploaded. This episode originally aired on 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: November two thousand twelve. Chris Pallette and I talked about 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: the service mega upload, which right around that time was 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: getting shut down. So what's the story behind it? Well, 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: let's find out. Today. We wanted to talk about a 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: controversial subject, a couple of different controversial subjects. There's a 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: mega controversy, yes, mega upload, and uh, any of you 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: have probably heard about mega upload. Some of you may 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: have even used the service. Some of you may be 16 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: going to mega upload dot com right now and wondering 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: if you're in trouble because you see that there's a 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: big takedown notice where the site used to be. But 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about what it is, what the 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: controversy is around it, what the various legal issues are 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: surrounding it, and a lot about the Uh. I guess 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: flamboyant is an appropriate word, uh, head of mega upload 23 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Kim dot com. Yes, um, yeah, So I guess we 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: can start off why not at the beginning, back in 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: two thousand five kim dot com. And when I say 26 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: at the beginning, I'll go back further than this. Later 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: on we talked about the legal issues. But he founded 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: a site uh turned out to be a family of sites, 29 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: but we tend to just call it mega upload. And 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: the idea behind this was kind of like a very 31 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: specific implementation of cloud storage. So the idea was that 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: users could upload files to this service, mega upload, and 33 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: then allow other people to download those files and on 34 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: its own. If that's all we say, that's not there's 35 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: nothing controversial about that. That's just a method of distributing data. 36 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: The problem comes in as to the nature of that 37 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: data and whether or not that data had any intellectual 38 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: property rights associated with it. That perhaps the user who 39 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: uploaded the file did not have access to our authorization 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: to uh to distribute that file, and that's the crux 41 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: of the problem. So mega upload is what we call 42 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: locker site. Yes, and you you create a locker where 43 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: you upload the files other people can download them and uh, 44 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: and there are some interesting things about mega upload. For example, uh, 45 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: uploading a file didn't guarantee that that file was going 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: to be stored there forever. Uh. The the service would 47 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: actually delete files out of its storage if they were 48 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: not being downloaded enough. At least, that was sort of 49 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: the That was the allegation that the United States government 50 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: made against Mega upload when building its case. They said 51 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: that in order for a file to be hosted, it 52 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: had to be popular, it had to reach a certain 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: threshold of popularity, and if people stopped downloading it, the 54 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: file would no longer be hosted on mega upload. UM. 55 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: So that's kind of a way of to conserve space. 56 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: You know, the files that are really popular stay available. 57 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: Files no one seems to want go away, and you 58 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about hosting a file forever. Because 59 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: of course, the more popular the site got, the larger 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: its um requirements were to for for hosting space because 61 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: I mean, these digital files are taking up hard drive 62 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: space somewhere on servers, so you have to be able to, 63 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: uh to meet that demand. And one way of doing 64 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: that is to phase out any files that are not 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: particularly sought after. Yeah, now, you might be saying, you know, well, 66 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: how is this different from something like dropbox or perhaps YouTube? Um? 67 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: And there are big differences, um, because some of the 68 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: charges that have been filed basically accused the people behind 69 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: mega upload. UM. Kim dot com is sort of the 70 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: face of mega upload, but the he had a handful 71 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: of partners who were closely were you know, working on 72 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: it with him, very closely. UM. So the people behind 73 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: mega upload have been charged with basically, um, not only 74 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: providing storage space, but knowing what was in that storage 75 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: space and encouraging people to upload popular content which may 76 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: or may not have been UM, you know, stuff that 77 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: violated copyright. And that's really that that's you know, the question. 78 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: Those are the questions that you know, how how far 79 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: did it go? Right? The allegations. The allegations actually go 80 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: so far as to claim that the the owners of 81 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: mega upload paid out money to people in order to 82 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: encourage them to upload popular files. And by popular, we're 83 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: talking about stuff that violates intellectual property. Uh. When you 84 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: when you just say popular, that could be anything. But 85 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: in the case that was brought against mega upload and 86 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: its founders, they're specifically talking about things like movies or music. Really, 87 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: movies is the big one. But it's not just movies, 88 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: it's television and music as well. Saying all right, well 89 00:05:54,880 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: there are people uploading entire libraries of files to your site. Uh, 90 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: they don't have the authorization to do that. People are 91 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: essentially using mega upload to perpetuate piracy. And so ultimately, 92 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: and when you look at this, you can figure out 93 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: there are certain industries that are very much pushing for 94 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: action against mega upload. It's it's pretty safe to say 95 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: that this was not just a government agency saying, oh, 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: here's a bad guy, we need to go after him. 97 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: This these are industries that are using political pressure to 98 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: go after a company that they see as a threat 99 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: to their business model. Then, in itself is not necessarily 100 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 1: a bad thing. You want to protect your business, you know, otherwise, 101 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: if you don't protect your business, you go out of business. However, 102 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:53,239 Speaker 1: there are some questions as to the execution of this 103 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: and whether or not it oversteps bounds. For example, a 104 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: mega upload we haven't mentioned this yet. It is a company. 105 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: It's a company that's based the company itself is based 106 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: out of Hong Kong. So that raises some questions because 107 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: it's the United States that's primarily going after Kim dot 108 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: com and the other people behind Mega upload, and the 109 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: United States does not have jurisdiction in Hong Kong. On 110 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: top of that, Kim dot com and the other people 111 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: who were rounded up we'll talk about the round up 112 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: in a second. They were all in New Zealand. Also, 113 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: last I checked, not within the jurisdiction of the United States. Um. 114 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: Pretty sure. I mean I could be wrong. It could 115 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: be that in the Hobbit, I'll see that, you know, 116 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: federal agents are knocking down the enemy's door and uh 117 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: and in Mirkwood spoiler alert, but it would surprise me. Um. However, 118 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: some of the company's servers were based here in the 119 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: United States. That that was one thing. Yeah, but that 120 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: was done on purpose. Us. Um, why was that done 121 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: on purpose? Well, remember when I mentioned YouTube a few 122 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: minutes ago. Um will YouTube? From time to time people 123 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: upload content to the site that infringes on someone's copyright. 124 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: You know, they take and rip a movie and stick 125 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: it on YouTube, which is pretty much blatantly illegal. The 126 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: thing is, what the idea is that under current UH 127 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: United States law, the copyright owner can contact YouTube and 128 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: say hey, take that down, and YouTube is supposed to 129 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: take it down and and Kim Kim dot com has 130 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: said that Mega upload did that. Um. Now see there 131 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: there's there's what is called safe Haven, which was part 132 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: of the d m c A Digital Millennium right, and 133 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: basically it says, hey, look, you know you're providing the 134 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: storage space online. That doesn't make you necessarily wiable for 135 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: what people do with that space. If they put uh 136 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: material up there that infringes upon someone's copyright. As long 137 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: as you take it down when you're asked to by 138 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: the copyright holder, that's not it's not your fault that 139 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: that people do that. What they're saying that Mega upload did, however, 140 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: was um basically not only uh host that they didn't 141 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: necessarily take it down immediately upon being asked. They might 142 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: have been selective in what they took down, and they 143 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: were encouraging people to post popular content. So they're saying, no, 144 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: you guys don't qualify for safe Haven. This is completely different. 145 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: And they're being brought up on criminal charges yeum, which 146 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: is different than a simple lawsuit. Hey, we're suing you 147 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: because you did not take this down. Yeah. The the 148 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: d m c A is very uh it lays this 149 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: out in a very specific way that the ideas that 150 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: it will protect the service providers so that they are 151 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: not um shouldered with all the responsibility for providing what 152 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: is a valuable service to people who might use it 153 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: in ways for which it was not intended or in 154 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: illegal ways. Uh. So you can argue whether or not 155 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: Mega upload was intended for illegal use or not. That's 156 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: in fact the federal federal officials are very much making 157 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: that argument. But UH, for the d m c A 158 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,599 Speaker 1: to apply for that safe haven to apply, the the 159 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: owners of the service cannot knowingly host illegal material. They 160 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: are told about the illegal material, they have to remove it. 161 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: One of the allegations against Kim dot Com and Mega 162 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: upload is that when they were told about illegal material, 163 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: what they would do is remove a link to that 164 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: illegal material, but they would not remove the file itself. 165 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: So in other words, the file still exists on mega upload. 166 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: They just removed whatever link was reported. Well, the way 167 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: mega upload worked was that if you were to try 168 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: and upload a file, let's say that let's say Chris 169 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: and I have decide did to uh to throw caution 170 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: to the wind and embrace our darker natures and to 171 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: UH to dive headfirst into the world of illicit film 172 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: trading online. And so Chris and I both have the 173 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: same idea at the same time. We have both decided 174 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: that now is the time for us to upload a 175 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: copy of the Steven Spielberg Mega hit Howard the Duck. 176 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: And so Chris uploads Howard the Duck before I do 177 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: because he has a better internet connection. So that Howard 178 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: the Duck file, that specific hash gets uploaded up to 179 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: mega upload, and then I do the same thing. Now, 180 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: the file that I'm using is based off the same 181 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: one that Chris made, so it's got the same data, 182 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: same everything. When I uploaded mega upload, looks and says, oh, 183 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I've already got this file. So instead 184 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: of uploading this to your locker, why don't you would 185 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: you prefer it if we just um linked to it 186 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: and added another link to the already existing file because 187 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: it's the same information. This way, you don't have to 188 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: upload the whole thing. You just add the link. And 189 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: you say, because you don't want to have to come 190 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: up your internet connection all that time, or I say, 191 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: in this case, because it's using my example, I said, sure, 192 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: just put the link in. Well, the complaint. One of 193 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: the complaints that the FEDS made against Mega upload is 194 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: that if you were the content owner if you're the 195 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: intellectual property rights owner of Howard the Duck of the 196 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: film Howard the Duck, and you wanted to protect it, 197 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: and you saw that there was a link to a 198 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: mega upload locker that contained that movie, you would send 199 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: that complaint to mega upload and then they would apparently 200 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: remove the link, the specific link you mentioned. However, I 201 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: also have a link to that content. It's a different link. 202 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: It's the same file, which means that because they did 203 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: not delete the file itself, there's still a pathway to 204 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: get to that file. All they did was close off path, 205 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: but they left another path open. That's the allegation. That's 206 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,079 Speaker 1: what the federals, federal officers are saying. They're saying, well, yeah, 207 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: you would remove this link, but the file still existed 208 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: and there were still other links to that file, so 209 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: you didn't solve the problem. All you did was close 210 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: one door, but there were you know, however, other many 211 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: doors open, so people could still get to it and 212 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: the problem was not fixed. Um, so that's that's one 213 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: of the main arguments here. Now, the way this all 214 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: went down was way back on January twelve. Uh. Do 215 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: you remember January two thousand twelve, fact, when we were 216 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: wondering if Apple was going to have an iPad three 217 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: and no idea that they would also have an iPod 218 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: pot iPad four that same year. Um, that's just a 219 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: light dig. So on January nine, the Department of Justice 220 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: seized the UH mega upload dot com site and all 221 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: of its family of sites like mega video and things 222 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: like that, and they shut it down and they began 223 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: to pursue a criminal case against the owners and operators 224 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: of that site. On January two thousand twelve, Hong Kong 225 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: Customs ended up freezing assets belonging to the company and 226 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: on that On January twenty, in New Zealand, UH New 227 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: Zealand police, acting under the the direction of United States 228 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: federal officers, led a raid against a mansion that was 229 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: being leased by Kim dot com UM and had happened 230 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: to have several other mega upload people there at the 231 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: time because they were celebrating his birthday, so they timed 232 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: it out to raid on his birthday. Uh. They went in. 233 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:05,479 Speaker 1: They seized around seventeen million dollars worth of assets, including vehicles, 234 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: and art, so stuff that was not related directly to 235 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: the website. But the federal officers claim that these are 236 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 1: things that Kim dot Com bought through money laundering and 237 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: other means. Um specifically that that allegation that Mega upload 238 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: paid people to upload illegal material to their site. Um. 239 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: And if you're wondering how does Mega upload make money, 240 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: because we didn't really talk about that. There's two ways 241 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: you could be a subscriber, but that's really the kind 242 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: of a minor way that they generate revenue. They mostly 243 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: generate rate revenue through ads. Well, they serve up ads 244 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: over when when you're downloading, that's when the ads get 245 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: served to you. So if you download a file, that's 246 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: when you start seeing these ads. So there's an incentive 247 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: to provide as many downloads as possible because the more 248 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: downloads there are, the more ads Mega upload serves, the 249 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: more money it gets. So that's where a lot of 250 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: this cash came from. So uh that that all went 251 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: down on January and went pretty quickly, but dot com 252 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: and was not resting. He hired on some lawyers and 253 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: began to fight back against the actions taken against him 254 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: and against Mega Upload. So March five, two thousand twelve, 255 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: the United States files for an extradition request for in 256 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: New Zealand courts, saying we want to extradite him to 257 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the US and try him there for crimes. Keeping in 258 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: mind again Hong Kong Company New Zealand resident actually New 259 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: Zealand citizen. He he I guess resident is the right word. 260 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: He did apply for residency and was granted it. He's 261 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: actually German, German born. Yeah, what you could tell by 262 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: the dot com last name. Actually he changed that name. 263 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: He changed that name partially because of his his childhood. Yeah, 264 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: he was. He was. His original name is Kim Schmitz. 265 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: And actually his his past is definitely one of the 266 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: reasons why there's so much interest in him and why 267 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: I think, uh, the United States government felt fairly confident 268 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: going after him because he he is not He doesn't 269 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: have a squeaky clean past. He was he was tried 270 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: for embezzlement. He was a teenage internet sensation in the 271 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: sense and like an investment sensation, and was was accused 272 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: of with charges of insider trading and get up, sorry, 273 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: keep trying to interrupt. Go ahead, I shouldn't I apologize? 274 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: Please do um, there's a great article in Wired magazine 275 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: and on Wired dot Com about him that Charles Graber wrote, Um, 276 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: actually brought the dead Tree version with me to it. Um, 277 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's definitely it's a really did you read 278 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: this in your research? Um? I thought it was a 279 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: really good balanced article because it talks about some of 280 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: his more positive, you know, attempts to be more positive 281 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: and some of his past which has been you know, 282 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: not always on the up and up. I mean he 283 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: in school, he wasn't really a dedicated student. He preferred 284 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: to uh apparently likes to sleep late, and he liked 285 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: to skip class and sleep in basically, but he got 286 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: an interested in computers when he was a teenager and 287 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: and really embraced it. He took off with it. Yeah. 288 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: He he hacked into some pretty uh pretty notable systems 289 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: like NASA. Yeah. Well, so he's he's definitely got h 290 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: He's definitely got a history of being somewhat of a 291 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: mischief maker. Um. But he got a good scare when 292 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: he was a kid too. He got in trouble with 293 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: the law and uh, basically I get the sense, or 294 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: at least the article paints him as somebody who, uh say, 295 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, once he got done with that, said hey, 296 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: I I really don't want to mess with this again, 297 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: but the thing is too He also and this also 298 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: does not paint or did not did not help him 299 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: with this um recent arrest. And uh, he kind of 300 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: paints himself as a high roller gangster type. Yeah, he's 301 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: that seventeen million dollars with the art some of those 302 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: cars that they see, he's like some of the cars 303 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: were hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for an 304 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: individual car. One of his associates said, hey, you know, 305 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: we have a big car with a license plate that 306 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: says mafia on it. But we're we're fooling around. We're 307 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: not serious about that stuff, right, But the government it's 308 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: organized crime. They're doing it on purpose. They're thinking of 309 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: it as like giant toys. He also had a helicopter. 310 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 1: I mean, he had lots of stuff. We're gonna pause 311 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: this mega upload for a moment in order to take 312 00:19:52,960 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. On April thirty, two thousand twelve, UH, 313 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: a New Zealand judge found that some of the assets 314 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: in that raid were improperly seized and that paperwork was 315 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: not correctly filed and as a result, they returned about 316 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: seven fifty thousand dollars worth of assets to um to 317 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: dot Com, who, by the way, was having some problems 318 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: getting bail for a while, not not having not coming 319 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: up with the money, but just getting the the option 320 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: of being able to post bail. Judge initially denied him that, 321 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: saying that because he had a helicopter and because he 322 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: was a man of pretty uh substantial means that he 323 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: was a flight risk, and also citing his past as well, 324 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: uh where he had a little bit of a history 325 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: of hopping around a bit uh apparently to dodge authorities 326 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: and investigations. Uh. But and another judge found later they said, well, yeah, 327 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: but we seized all his assets. He's not going anywhere, 328 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: so we're going to grant him the option to post Bailuh. 329 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: So that that did change well April three, when he 330 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: got about seven or fifty dollars worth of the assets returned, 331 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,719 Speaker 1: including several of the cars. So it's not like it 332 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: was just a big suitcase full of cash. H June 333 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, New Zealand judge ruled that the search 334 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: warrants were dot COM's property were not valid because they 335 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 1: were too general. Yeah, yeah. And in addition to that, 336 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: there has been a question over whether UM or not 337 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: the use of force that not not that you know, 338 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: they shot their way in, but they came in with 339 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: weapons and things that we're not supposedly allowed against UM 340 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: citizens of New Zealand. So there is some question as 341 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: to that that that not only were the warrants not 342 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: specific enough, but whether or not that the use of 343 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: the techniques that they used during the raid on his house, 344 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 1: whether that was appropriate and and they kicked the door 345 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: down basically yeah. Well, and dot Com for his part, 346 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: retreated to a safe room inside his house and apparently 347 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: had a couple of firearms in there with him, which 348 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: made it made it look not good. He didn't he 349 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: apparently was not holding the weapons, but he would have 350 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: had access to them. And his response was that he 351 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: thought that, you know, he didn't know what to think 352 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: because all these people were trying to break into his home, 353 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: so he retreated to the safe room in his house. Uh. 354 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: The UM the officers say that he was trying trying 355 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: to escape and or delete incriminating evidence. Yea. They claimed 356 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: that he had a basically a panic button that would 357 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: have erased all of MEGA uploads files and he hold 358 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: out will he hold out candy like button good times Well. 359 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: In July tenth, two thousand twelve, the extradition hearings were 360 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: deferred until March two thousand thirteen, and New Zealand judge 361 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: said the United States must prove that he was aware 362 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: of and supporting internet piracy to support an extradition claim, 363 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: and then on September two twelve, the Prime Minister of 364 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: New Zealand called for an investigation to determine if government 365 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: officials had been spying on dot Com and his associates illegally. 366 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: So it's a very thorny uh issue as far as 367 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: the laws concerned. In fact, it gets even more complicated. 368 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: There are some who say uh, some being dot COM's 369 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: lawyer really, who say that the United States case against 370 00:23:54,640 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: dot Com is attempting to use civil complaints as a 371 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: criminal charge, which that that's not how that works. Civil 372 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: courts and criminal courts in the United States. That's those 373 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: are two different things. But that at least some of 374 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: the case against dot Com is uh is based in 375 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: would be based in a civil court, not a criminal court, 376 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: and yet they're using it as a criminal charge against 377 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: him and other parts of the criminal charges would depend 378 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: wholly upon how that civil case played out, so they 379 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: can't If that's in fact true, they would not be 380 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: able to uh to to lay these charges against dot 381 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: Com until after the civil case was tried and there 382 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: was an outcome. UM. I think it's more complex from there. 383 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: So it's it's uh, it says, a messy, messy situation, 384 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: and as of the recording of this podcast, we can't 385 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: be sure what the outcome is going to be. UH. 386 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: There have been there's been more fallout from this beyond 387 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: just the press. UM. Anonymous decided to get involved UM, 388 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: which is kind of hard to say because Anonymous is 389 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: such a vaguely defined group that it could be two 390 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: people and Anonymous who want to do something and then 391 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: the entire group gets uh UM pointed at as saying 392 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: they're the ones responsible. Now, it could very well be 393 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: that of Anonymous all was behind us, or even a 394 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: percent was behind it, but by the very nature of 395 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: the group, which is a decentralized activist group, you can't 396 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: be sure, which is part of what protects them. Well. Anyway, 397 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: some people apparently belonging to Anonymous, at least according to 398 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: those who are looking into this, and it could be 399 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: that that's all not true as well. UM started to 400 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: launch attacks against websites UM, particularly websites belonging to the 401 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: Department of Justice, the United States Department of Justice, in 402 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: retaliation for the raids that were and and the shutdown 403 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: of Mega upload. So you had a distributed denial of 404 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: service attacks going out across the Internet, fired from the 405 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: canon of h of activists who may or may not 406 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: belong to anonymous UM as another another salvo in this 407 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: battle between well multiple parties at this point. Yeah, yeah, 408 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: and UM. To complicate matters. Now that you know Kim 409 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: dot com is out on his own, he's also and 410 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 1: again this is fairly recent um as at the time 411 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: we're recording this, that he's created a new service just 412 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: Mega In fact, it's m E dot g A, which 413 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: is using the gabon H. Is that how you pronounce 414 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: it UM anyway, Yes, they're using their country code, so 415 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: it's emmy dot g A and that's on launching one 416 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: on one year to the day of his arrest January. 417 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: The new service is supposed to go online. And uh, 418 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 1: from what I've read about the new service, it's supposed 419 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: to you circumvent the quote unquote problems. You'll see why 420 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: I said that, Uh put in the fake scare quotes 421 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: um for uh for this because they won't be able 422 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: to see what's inside these lockers. Yeah. Everything gets encrypted 423 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: when you upload a file. Uh, it gets encrypted within 424 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: your browser. Yeah, and it so in other words, the 425 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: owners of Mega would never be able to see what 426 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: content was stored on their service at all. It would 427 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: all just be meaningless encrypted uh information. Right. So they 428 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: so even if you were an intellectual property rights holder 429 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: and you went to Mega and said, um, this file 430 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: is violating our intellectual property, they'd say, well, we can't 431 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: tell that because for us, it's just meaningless jumble of symbols. 432 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't there's no file here as far as we 433 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: can see. Yeah. Also, there will be no servers in 434 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: the United States jurisdiction. Go into what I've read that 435 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: would would that would protect them on those counts, or 436 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: at least would come closer to protecting them, right. Yeah. 437 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: The way you would access one of these files, of course, 438 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: that you would get if you were to upload a 439 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: file like let's say I upload a file of Howard 440 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: the Duck and it's encrypted into Mega. I would want 441 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: part of that transaction would be I would get a 442 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: key that I could share with other people that would 443 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: allow them to decrypt whatever the file was. Yes, so 444 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: I could send the key to Chris and say, saved 445 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: you the trouble, big guy, here's the movie, and he 446 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: could go and download it because he has the key. 447 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: Anyone who does not have the key would not be 448 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: able to see what the heck that file was. Yes, 449 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: when that would prevent the problem of needing D duplication, UM, 450 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: you know the same file taking a filespace now would 451 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: basically know that the same UH information was up there, 452 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: but it wouldn't say what that information was specifically, So 453 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: so they would have a better chance of pleading UH 454 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: safe harbor in it's mostly too obviously protect the owner 455 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: and UH caretakers of mega Chris and I will talk 456 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: a little bit more about Mega uploaded just a second, 457 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: but I want to interrupt for these important messages. All 458 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: this being said, you know, we've talked a lot about 459 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: the piracy, and we've talked a lot about the allegations 460 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: against mega upload UM and I probably should have said 461 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: this much earlier in the podcast, but there are very 462 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: legitimate ways to use these services that have nothing to 463 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: do with violating intellectual property, property or piracy or anything 464 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: like that. Like if I have content that belongs to 465 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: me and I want to be able to distribute it 466 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: to all wide network and I cannot host it myself, 467 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: something like one of these sites could be very useful. 468 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: You know, I may not have any other distribution platform 469 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: that I can use to get my content out there. 470 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: So there are plenty of use cases where there's nothing 471 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: wrong with using a site like mega upload to either 472 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: distribute or to get access to material. It's only in 473 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: the case where that is unauthorized use of intellectual property 474 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: that is the problem. Now that raises a question of well, 475 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: what percentage of activity on mega upload uh revolved around 476 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: intellectual property theft and whether and if it was a lot, 477 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: were the founders aware of it or even complicit in it. 478 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: Those are the points that need to be hashed out 479 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: in court. I've also seen at least one judge in 480 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: the United States say that he doubts this will ever 481 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: go to court in the US. He thinks that there 482 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: are enough problematic factors involved in the whole raid and 483 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: seizing of the property that will prevent it from ever 484 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: having its stay in court. In the US, So we'll see. 485 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: It's very possible. It does look like it was not 486 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: the um not the smoothest raid I've ever seen, at 487 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: least from a paperwork standpoint. So yeah, we'll have to 488 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: wait and see if that if that's how it plays out. 489 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting case, and it is somewhat worrisome 490 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: because even if you were to say that the founder 491 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: and owners of mega upload, we're all actively encouraging piracy, 492 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: that reflects poorly on other file sharing services that may 493 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: be very much dedicated to fighting piracy on their own service, 494 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: but now they are brought into question because they just 495 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: happen to have the same distribution model more or less 496 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: as Mecca Mega upload, and uh, that hurts everybody. So 497 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: it's not you know, even if you think, oh, well, 498 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: I never pirate stuff and I would never upload those 499 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: kind of files to a service, it can still affect 500 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: you it because it might mean that some other service 501 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: that you use and you trust ends up getting caught 502 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: in this blast and uh ends up not being able 503 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: to continue its services. It also raises another question. I 504 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of people who had 505 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: stuff up on Mega upload and now they don't have 506 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: access to it, So there are people are saying, wait 507 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: a minute, I owned the content that I put up 508 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: on mega upload that belongs to me, and now I 509 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: can't get to it. Yeah. And and it's funny because 510 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: the article in Wired ends with, um, the judge wanting 511 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: to release information about the case to the media but 512 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,239 Speaker 1: wants all the media outlets to have that access at 513 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: exactly the same time, and saying, Wow, if we just 514 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: had a way to do that, and that would be 515 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: something obviously that that's sort of an allusion to, Yes, 516 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: you could do at was something like mega upload and um, yeah, 517 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: I mean the it seems like the the apparently the 518 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: service had been used by a great many people to 519 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: distribute content that they owned that it was perfectly legal 520 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: to use the way they were using it. Um, so yeah, 521 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,719 Speaker 1: I think, Um, it's interesting to see. I think the 522 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 1: article sort of makes it sound like or or at 523 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: least gives me the impression that this situation is sort 524 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: of something of their own making because they made themselves 525 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: appear to be up to something because it was fun 526 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: to play that way that there may not there may 527 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: not have been any attempt at anything impro improper, but 528 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: people were using it improperly, and there wasn't you know, 529 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: as much to discourage improper use as there could have 530 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: been perhaps, Um, So it's yeah, I think I think 531 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: they they contributed to their own problems. Um. And its 532 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: cases like this that give rise to propose pieces of 533 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: legislation like the Stop Online Piracy Act that are both 534 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: related to this. Yeah, so you've got, I mean, you've 535 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: got these are other things that can affect all of 536 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: us in a negative way. Uh, And we need to 537 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: really think about it before, you know, allowing pro intellectual 538 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: property owners to just run rampant over the legal system. 539 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: Now that being said, I still think that they deserve 540 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: some sort of support system to protect their intellectual property. 541 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: You know, I don't. I don't think it should be 542 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: uh open season and that you can grab anything you want, 543 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: anytime you want, with no care about, you know, purchasing it. 544 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: Because if we were to all live that way, a 545 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: lot of people would stop making content because there would 546 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: be no reason to do it, you know. I mean, 547 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: some people would make content because they love to create 548 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: things and they love to share it. But a lot 549 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: of the content that we love, the stuff that everyone 550 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: wants to get their hands on, would not exist. Because 551 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: no one would make it because there's no money in it. 552 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: So you know, there's there's definitely a complex issue here, 553 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: but uh, it's it's one of those things. Why the 554 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: reason why I'm paying attention to the mega upload case 555 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,399 Speaker 1: is because I know this is the sort of thing 556 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: that inspires various lobbies to petition, uh legislators to create 557 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: laws that often go well beyond what the original intention 558 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: of that law was meant to do. You know, it 559 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: might the intention might be we need to protect these 560 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: people or these companies because their property is getting stolen, 561 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: but the actual implications go so far beyond it as 562 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: to well potentially cripple the Internet. So it's uh, you know, 563 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: it's an interesting story. Um, we'll definitely keep our eyes 564 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: on it and see how it develops and maybe, uh 565 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: maybe mega will become an even bigger story than Mega 566 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: upload ever was. Yeah, that's true. It's possible, especially with 567 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: the encryption. So he's also gonna he's planning on a 568 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: music streaming service as well. Yeah, so, I mean they 569 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: had a music storage service already, so that doesn't really 570 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: surprise me. And they even had a video streaming service, 571 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: so it's kind of a considering the popularity of music 572 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: streaming over the last two years. That doesn't really surprise me. 573 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: So we'll see how that all comes out and whether 574 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: or not dot Com gets out of this one um 575 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: or you know, maybe he ends up courting even more 576 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: trouble in the future. He seems like the kind of 577 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: personality who sort of thrives on this sort of thing 578 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: to a point. I mean, no one thrives in having 579 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: seventeen million dollars worth of stuff taken from them. No, 580 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: but he does like attention. Um. It seems like he 581 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: would like attention for uh being a role model of sorts. Um. 582 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I don't know that he wants 583 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: to be seen as a uh I ruled breaker, maybe 584 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: a real bender. And that's the story on mega upload, 585 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: A controversial story if there ever was one. I hope 586 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: you guys enjoyed this classic episode of tech Stuff. 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