Speaker 1: Worrying. Today's episode contains spoilers for Superman currently in theaters. Hello,
Speaker 1: my name is Jason Concepcion and I'm rosday Night, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to x Ravay of the podcast where we
Speaker 1: dive the bit to your favorite shows, movies, comments, and
Speaker 1: pop culture company Over my our podcast Where Were We You?
Speaker 1: Episodes every Tuesday and Thursday, plus highlighting the summer's biggest
Speaker 1: movies every Friday, and news on Saturday.
Speaker 2: In today's episode, we have gathered the Justice Gang and Planetwatch.
Speaker 2: Depends who's on which side we will see, we'll see
Speaker 2: it's Superman and the Justice Gang talking Superman and will
Speaker 2: we talking about why we think the DC universe could
Speaker 2: head next Well, our super producers thought of the movie
Speaker 2: and guys, no episode on Thursday, but we will be
Speaker 2: back on Friday for our newest popcorn pop out, talking
Speaker 2: about probably the phenomenon of the summer so far K
Speaker 2: Pop Demon Hunters on Netflix. And then we'll be bringing
Speaker 2: you some fun and fresh updates from Comic Con and
Speaker 2: I can't believe it's almost here, guys. But first.
Speaker 1: Our Superan Roundtable. Let's welcome in the roundtable participants, our
Speaker 1: super producer crew Joel, how are you.
Speaker 3: I'm here for Justice Gang, but I would like us
Speaker 3: to have a new name.
Speaker 2: He said, It's not the Justice Gang. Babe.
Speaker 3: Carmen, good morning.
Speaker 4: How are you doing well? Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Aaron, Aaron, how you do him?
Speaker 5: I'm so excited to talk about that little men in
Speaker 5: Black alien guy who was working in the jail in
Speaker 5: the zero dimension. I can't wait for all of our
Speaker 5: theories on that character.
Speaker 2: Bro't don't gus tempt it. You're gonna close.
Speaker 1: Okay, First, let's Superman. First of all, is a huge hit,
Speaker 1: a massive hit. We should recognize that.
Speaker 2: Good job.
Speaker 1: Good job Superman, Good job, Warner Brothers. Congratulations, David Zaslav,
Speaker 1: you did it, my guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good job. Guys. We like you did it. You
Speaker 2: did a good job.
Speaker 1: Look what are our quick headline reactions to this film?
Speaker 1: Let's start with you Erin.
Speaker 5: I thought it was really good. I think I wound
Speaker 5: up probably like a seven or eight out of ten.
Speaker 5: I think that this is a really fun movie. I
Speaker 5: had a great time the whole time. I had some
Speaker 5: issues with it, small things, but like I walked in
Speaker 5: not sure what to expect. I was not sold on
Speaker 5: corn sweat before and I walked out of it saying, like,
Speaker 5: the casting of this movie incredible and everyone overperformed. Everyone overperformed.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I thought it was very good, seven or
Speaker 5: eight out of ten.
Speaker 4: Carmen, Yeah, I think the casting was amazing. To Aaron's point,
Speaker 4: but the first thing I said when the movie was over,
Speaker 4: and I did Texas to the group chat as well,
Speaker 4: but I said that I was very proud that Bimbo's
Speaker 4: had saved the day. And there are some you know,
Speaker 4: we do have some criticisms on that later, but it
Speaker 4: gave me somebody relate to relate to, and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: I gave it a nine out of ten, and that's
Speaker 4: because I think largely like my cinema experience played a
Speaker 4: big part in that. I was in the third row.
Speaker 4: I was literally looking up at the screen. There were
Speaker 4: kids in the rows behind me, like every time Crypto
Speaker 4: was on screen. It was such a cute moment in
Speaker 4: the theater. So love that. I'm saying it again tonight
Speaker 4: and we'll see a Leicester last.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've seen it twice. At the third time, I've
Speaker 3: seen it twice, I've got tickets to see it at
Speaker 3: the third time. I love this movie. I believe a
Speaker 3: man can fly, and I believe superhero movies are gonna
Speaker 3: keep being around for decades to come. Y'all, we are
Speaker 3: not going anywhere. There's so much to say about this movie,
Speaker 3: but for the quickest behind the scenes Warner Brothers has said,
Speaker 3: sinners f one companion this movie. It all the way
Speaker 3: to the Bay after after the loss of Joker too,
Speaker 3: which was people wondering if Warner Bros. Could ever recover
Speaker 3: as a studio afterwards. To go from that to this
Speaker 3: a space that gives us a really hopeful feature for
Speaker 3: DC comic books on screen. I think it's it's a
Speaker 3: fantastic turn around. I guess as zero points. Congratulations to
Speaker 3: all the producers and creatives who made this happen.
Speaker 2: Also, I mean, let's be seriously, they released Minecraft this
Speaker 2: year like the biggest hits, like this is the thing, money, money, money,
Speaker 2: and this is also everywhere making money. And I'm I'm
Speaker 2: happy because I feel like we didn't one hundred percent
Speaker 2: know where this one was gonna land. It's the most
Speaker 2: profitable solo Superman movie opening weekend.
Speaker 1: We should also not f one a co pro between
Speaker 1: Apple Studios and Warner Brothers Warner is distributing Apple Producers,
Speaker 1: so yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: What, Warner is good at those deals because Warner also
Speaker 2: makes Abbot Elementary that's right, and then we know ABC
Speaker 2: distros it, so they've done a good job with those
Speaker 2: kind of deals. But yeah, I'm I love that you
Speaker 2: guys all enjoyed this movie. Obviously, if you listen to
Speaker 2: Mine and Jason talking about the movie, we also really
Speaker 2: enjoyed it. Let's talk about one thing that you guys
Speaker 2: loved and one thing that like didn't walk. Let's go
Speaker 2: the other way around, Joelle, what was your one thing
Speaker 2: that you really loved and one thing that maybe could
Speaker 2: have been better?
Speaker 3: I love that Superman and Lois Fuck.
Speaker 4: I love.
Speaker 1: A cheesy bathtub.
Speaker 3: Superman. That scene. I was like, the hell is happy?
Speaker 2: He lifted her up with one mom.
Speaker 3: Like they do it in that tiny kitchen, and I
Speaker 3: was like, who can't relate to this young love? This
Speaker 3: is great. I also love that Lois is like canonically
Speaker 3: older than Superman. It reads really well on the screen.
Speaker 3: It's like hyper cute. I love she.
Speaker 1: Makes it clear in their in their early part of
Speaker 1: their scenes together that like unsure what the emotions are,
Speaker 1: but this is primarily about we fucking yeah.
Speaker 2: I also like that she just tells everyone. Everyone will
Speaker 2: be like, how's that guy? She just seeing him? Just
Speaker 2: see we know what that babe? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Field, or he only dates people he meets at work.
Speaker 3: For the internet, these fragile feelings. I don't think that
Speaker 3: he can barely be on Twitter.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's He's met and he met her
Speaker 2: three months ago, and he like casually tells her he
Speaker 2: loves her, and it's like, I should have told you
Speaker 2: that a long time ago. He's like, like, what do
Speaker 2: you mean? He's a sweet I met you.
Speaker 3: I was ready to commit amazing uh. Like Coutique, I
Speaker 3: I feel like the Engineer is such an interesting character
Speaker 3: that got to do nothing on screen, and it really
Speaker 3: bugs me. It was just like I gave him my
Speaker 3: humanity for this, and like, I would love to have
Speaker 3: seen it, Babe, would love to have seen you a
Speaker 3: make this choice and be what that sacrifice meant for you?
Speaker 3: And really I can extend that to almost all of
Speaker 3: Luther's Like I really I love a good villain and
Speaker 3: this is an excellent villain, and a good villain with
Speaker 3: good henches is even better. And I really feel like
Speaker 3: We had a good cast of characters here who didn't
Speaker 3: get enough time to shine in the positions they were
Speaker 3: in for us to understand, like the dynamics between Luther
Speaker 3: and these people because when not to get too far head,
Speaker 3: but somebody gets injured and Luther's like seems to be
Speaker 3: very affected by this. I'm like, I needed more of
Speaker 3: why so I would I would like to see more
Speaker 3: of it in the future, But overall really filled with.
Speaker 2: This movie common how about you So.
Speaker 4: Something that really worked for me, which at first I
Speaker 4: was nervous about, was Crypto the super Dog. I was
Speaker 4: nervous at first and excited when I saw the trailers
Speaker 4: because it kind of reminded me of the Scooby Doo movies. Basically,
Speaker 4: how's it going to be having, you know, a cgi
Speaker 4: dog on screen? But they pulled it off, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: really really well, and he was used just enough to
Speaker 4: keep things I think exciting and chaotic, but he was
Speaker 4: not used so much that he just kind of you
Speaker 4: got tired of seeing him there. Every time he came
Speaker 4: on screen. It was a moment in the theater, like
Speaker 4: I said before, and he was probably one of my
Speaker 4: favorite parts of the movie. I'm like, that was my
Speaker 4: I was watching it and thinking, that's my dog. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love that he's like a cheeky, badly behaved all.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things that's most fun
Speaker 2: about it, and that really gets people going in the cinema,
Speaker 2: Like when he's injured at the beginning and Crypto is
Speaker 2: just like jumping on him, and then when you kind
Speaker 2: of get the payoff of seeing why that is at
Speaker 2: the end is really fun. What didn't work for you common.
Speaker 4: Well, I think we're all going to have similar criticisms here.
Speaker 4: But again, for me to kind of piggyback off of
Speaker 4: what Joelle said, I also thought that the Hinchman Lexus Henchman, Ultraman,
Speaker 4: and the Engineer were a little flat. I would have
Speaker 4: loved I loved that they didn't, like do an origin story.
Speaker 4: I love that they just threw us right into the
Speaker 4: story because we all know Superman's origin story at this point,
Speaker 4: you know. But I would have loved a little bit
Speaker 4: just to kind of make us more emotionally invested in
Speaker 4: maybe Ultraman and the Engineer because they were interesting. Villains
Speaker 4: are always some of the most interesting like parts of
Speaker 4: a movie to me. And I wanted to know more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they ended up in a problem where
Speaker 2: like Lex was such a fantastic villain, and then the
Speaker 2: idea of the video game kind of players who were
Speaker 2: helping him was such a smart tool. The outside of that,
Speaker 2: you were kind of like, well, why would rather just
Speaker 2: be back with them? We weren't given enough and obviously
Speaker 2: the ultraman thing is meant to be like it's a
Speaker 2: twist and it's but then that also feels like maybe
Speaker 2: something where originally it was meant to be something different.
Speaker 2: I do we do have some more insight into maybe
Speaker 2: why that happened with some quotes that Saffron and Gun
Speaker 2: recently gave about the authority and how it's kind of
Speaker 2: actually being like held back because it's not working. It
Speaker 2: was meant to be a much bigger part of the
Speaker 2: movie originally. But Aaron, what was your thing that you
Speaker 2: loved and thing that didn't work for you?
Speaker 5: Like I said, the casting I think was incredible. Everyone
Speaker 5: was better than I expected, from Nathan Fillion to Bet Bennett.
Speaker 5: I mean, everyone played their.
Speaker 4: Parts of really really well.
Speaker 5: I also thought, like I think Lex was incredible and
Speaker 5: a really great depiction of him. I almost wish we
Speaker 5: just had him piloting faceless raptor soldiers the whole time,
Speaker 5: because then we would just feel like he's the true villain,
Speaker 5: and I would not have been disappointed, I think by Ultraman.
Speaker 5: I think that in a lot of ways, it kind
Speaker 5: of felt like it was just hitting comic book movie
Speaker 5: greatest hits. We get a scene where the character is
Speaker 5: grappled by enemies, and so they fly up really high
Speaker 5: into the sky and then plummet down. We get a
Speaker 5: scene where it turns out your greatest enemy is a
Speaker 5: clone or just like a carbon copy of you kind
Speaker 5: of thing, And like, as much as the Superman is
Speaker 5: a human and he wants to exist among humanity is
Speaker 5: a new take. I think Superman wise, every single x
Speaker 5: Men movie is that same kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, also like every Spider Man movie, like there's an
Speaker 2: evil version of you, and you now people. Also, let's
Speaker 2: be realistic. The whole movie is about cultural kind of
Speaker 2: feelings about Superman and how to turn Superman into a
Speaker 2: weapon or a villain or something that people won't trust.
Speaker 2: You had a clone of Superman, you could have just
Speaker 2: had him out there doing evil things. That's a classics setup.
Speaker 2: So I liked that they did it a little bit different,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think I think it's interestingly. I think
Speaker 2: the ultraman stuff is more gonna set up kind of
Speaker 2: either a bizarro world type situation or maybe like a
Speaker 2: crime syndicate that's just gonna be a three. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I can understand how. I think that as well. Was
Speaker 2: a bit of a moment where we were all like,
Speaker 2: oh when he took the.
Speaker 5: Helmet, Yeah, and then a Boo and I saw it
Speaker 5: together and we both walked out and we were kind
Speaker 5: of I think both of us a little like. The
Speaker 5: second act kind of dragged a little bit. I think
Speaker 5: the whole scene with like the river to the black
Speaker 5: hole where he's holding the baby out of the water.
Speaker 2: The anti proton river was a little cig crazy that
Speaker 2: took a little too long.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I couldn't tell what was happening with the
Speaker 5: fight in there, but it led to some fun stuff.
Speaker 5: I loved seeing Crypto, like, again, those are some cool
Speaker 5: things in there. It just felt like it got a
Speaker 5: little too a little too convoluted in that particular moment.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about you, Rosie, what is a thing that
Speaker 1: worked for you and a thing that didn't.
Speaker 2: Work, I love again. I think you guys have bought
Speaker 2: up tons of great stuff about this movie. I think,
Speaker 2: like the character interactions. The one thing we haven't bought up,
Speaker 2: but I know we talked about it a lot, is
Speaker 2: like I thought mister Terrific was just so good, Like
Speaker 2: everyone was so good, but I think mister Terrific was
Speaker 2: so good. Like if I was making that movie and
Speaker 2: I'd been planning to have a version of the Authority
Speaker 2: working for Lex Luthor, and that was meant to be
Speaker 2: like a big kind of moment, and it was meant
Speaker 2: to be this big like WHOA, I would probably be like, Hey,
Speaker 2: what about this other team that works for Maxwell Lord,
Speaker 2: who we've just cast like a fantastic Shakespearean level actor
Speaker 2: with who is bringing this kind of complicated like it's thespian,
Speaker 2: But it's also in that James Gunn kind of exploitation
Speaker 2: black exploitation mold that he likes to play with. But
Speaker 2: they actually got a really great actor to be that character,
Speaker 2: and he's such a fun leader. Like I definitely think
Speaker 2: mister Terrific is what I want to see next. And
Speaker 2: I'm glad I saw them say they were thinking about
Speaker 2: doing TV you know TV shows and stuff. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: I think mister Terrific needs to be in the movies.
Speaker 2: That is a big screen man. He's proved his way.
Speaker 2: Something that didn't work for me, you know what, just
Speaker 2: uh not everything tonally landed for me, like the kind
Speaker 2: of hope punk against the billionaire Kryptonite kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I love the concept of it, I love the idea
Speaker 2: of it, but I was definitely in that Aaron like
Speaker 2: this was like a solid, like seven out of ten
Speaker 2: movie for me. But I think it's like also like
Speaker 2: a fantastic movie, and I love how much people are
Speaker 2: enjoying it. I just think like there's always going to
Speaker 2: be some things that don't necessarily gel and I think
Speaker 2: that was for me like less than one thing, because
Speaker 2: I really think all the disparate parts of this movie
Speaker 2: are pretty great. That was just one thing where I
Speaker 2: was like, I feel like there's a different version of
Speaker 2: this movie where I would have been like weeping the
Speaker 2: whole time. Though I will say when I saw it
Speaker 2: the second time, I actually found it to be incredibly emotional.
Speaker 2: And I think once the pressure of like what does
Speaker 2: this movie mean for this industry, for this show, for DC, Like,
Speaker 2: there's so much weighing on this, We've been thinking about
Speaker 2: it for years, the world has. I think my first
Speaker 2: viewing was kind of way down a little bit by
Speaker 2: that and just sort of like is it going to
Speaker 2: do that? But then the second viewing, when I went
Speaker 2: with the kid and I was just like enjoying my
Speaker 2: time at the movie, was like way more. I was
Speaker 2: way more hit by kind of the score and the
Speaker 2: way they used music. And so I think the more
Speaker 2: I watch it, it's definitely going to become like a
Speaker 2: really fun rewatchable for me, which is a big part
Speaker 2: of the movie becoming a comfort movie. Jason, how about you?
Speaker 2: Is there a big win, big lose or is it
Speaker 2: kind of in the middle.
Speaker 1: I think the big win for me is DC's more
Speaker 1: fictional universe with fictional countries, and I think that that
Speaker 1: kind of more distanced comic book metaphor works in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, as evidenced by the most recent Captain America film,
Speaker 1: Stepping on a Thousand Rakes. You know, every which way
Speaker 1: it turned to try and figure out how do we
Speaker 1: keep an idf character in here? How do we yeah,
Speaker 1: because the president make the president, who's like turning into
Speaker 1: an orange skinned like beast, not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean even like also, I would say
Speaker 2: that we've seen like me and Jason talked about this momentarily,
Speaker 2: but we've seen these kind of cut clips that they
Speaker 2: cut from Brave New World that would have added so
Speaker 2: much gravitas, added so much more impact. But there is
Speaker 2: like that fear because I think of the real world countries,
Speaker 2: the real world characters. Whereas obviously we have seen with Superman,
Speaker 2: James Gunn was able to use that to make analogies
Speaker 2: that now people are reading into in a like very
Speaker 2: powerful way and having conversations about. But was able to
Speaker 2: do that because it is a fictional right.
Speaker 1: And listen, the worst people in the world are still
Speaker 1: teeing off on this movie, Ben Shapiro, et cetera. But
Speaker 1: at least this approach doesn't make it easy for them.
Speaker 1: And this approach doesn't make it so when your corporate
Speaker 1: backers flip out, you then have to like scramble scramble
Speaker 1: scramble and figure something out.
Speaker 2: It's plausible deniability. You don't have to do the cots,
Speaker 2: you know, and it still hits just as hard.
Speaker 1: You know, the the all the kind of allegories that
Speaker 1: are integral to Superman and his mission on Earth are there,
Speaker 1: and they make sense in a world that we live in,
Speaker 1: but they're not things with like easily grasped handles that
Speaker 1: let the again the worst intention to people like in
Speaker 1: the world create like clubs out of them to like
Speaker 1: beat people over the head with. And we talked about
Speaker 1: this when we talked about the movie. But I do
Speaker 1: wonder if this, if DC's approach isn't ascendant right now,
Speaker 1: if I walked away from this movie thinking, wow, that
Speaker 1: was kind of like the superhero movie that I needed
Speaker 1: right now, and it didn't tho any of the punches
Speaker 1: thematically message wise, and it presented them in a way
Speaker 1: that is true to DC and feels like exactly the
Speaker 1: thing we need right now. What I did, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess I agree with basically what everybody has said.
Speaker 1: I could have used. Gosh, you know, I think in
Speaker 1: any movie that has this many characters that have you know,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna feel like somebody is left on the
Speaker 1: cutting room floor always.
Speaker 3: I think the.
Speaker 1: Engineer is obviously the big one. I think there are
Speaker 1: some others, but I think at times it just felt
Speaker 1: a little overstuffed. But you know, credit to Gunn for
Speaker 1: figuring all that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's a fair critique because it's
Speaker 2: one of those things where he wanted to put us
Speaker 2: into a world where we feel like we're jumping into
Speaker 2: a comic book, and that has been very much the
Speaker 2: feeling we got from it and the feeling of reading
Speaker 2: that is often that sometimes it's over stuffed. You know.
Speaker 2: I do think it's funny because I think that's an
Speaker 2: interesting thing to try to evoke, because you are going
Speaker 2: to go in and be in a situation where certain
Speaker 2: people are gonna not necessarily feel like they understand everything.
Speaker 2: But on a as a general gambit, I think it
Speaker 2: worked so much better than doing an origin or doing
Speaker 2: something slow, and we did end up with this incredible
Speaker 2: ensemble cast who I think, Actually, let's talk about the
Speaker 2: ensemble cast when we come back from a brain when
Speaker 2: we're back to talk about that ensemble cost, Joel lead
Speaker 2: us Off, Let's talk about this cost and its strengths
Speaker 2: and what it says about James Gunn's filmmaking. Like, let's
Speaker 2: see how it goes.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you have to take everything you get at
Speaker 3: a press Junkeet with a grain of salt because people
Speaker 3: are here to sell movie tickets and so there. But
Speaker 3: what I found un to day Rosie and I were
Speaker 3: at the junket at the same time we're tigh and
Speaker 3: they had everybody sort of group, so it was like,
Speaker 3: your villains are here, and then here's like the Daily
Speaker 3: Planet folks. When I was talking to the folks of
Speaker 3: the Daily Planet, I was like, really struck by how
Speaker 3: close they were as a group. Now, granted they've been
Speaker 3: doing press to her for a long time, but they
Speaker 3: say this like started in Georgia when they were shooting
Speaker 3: at a wrestling match, which I was delighted by. And
Speaker 3: I think when you talk here James guns Like, folks
Speaker 3: talk about like working with him, it's always like it's
Speaker 3: so fun and he's very encouraging it. And I just
Speaker 3: I think that the casting for this is so great
Speaker 3: that even the characters we don't get a lot of
Speaker 3: time with, the like newspaper editor played by Wendell Pierce.
Speaker 3: It's someone I went to have minded spending more time
Speaker 3: with understanding James Gunn's layout for the DC universe, which
Speaker 3: is to say, all these characters are going to reappear.
Speaker 3: We've already talked to cast members about how much they're
Speaker 3: going to reappear. I think using people strategically, how much
Speaker 3: time did Window Pierce really have to spend on set?
Speaker 3: Maybe three weeks maybe becausn't a lot of time to
Speaker 3: go off and do all of the many other projects
Speaker 3: he has, you know, cooking. It makes him want to
Speaker 3: come back as an actor because he knows the time's
Speaker 3: not going to be wasted, and also gives us enough
Speaker 3: insight to know like, oh, these people are coming back
Speaker 3: in a big way, and we trust these actors. That
Speaker 3: makes me really excited. I also think, you know, we
Speaker 3: had talked a little bit before about the prices, the
Speaker 3: rates the different actors were being paid on the news
Speaker 3: last Like if you heard Jason and I mentioned, you know,
Speaker 3: Nicholas got paid a lot more more than David and
Speaker 3: Rachel reportedly. I'm cool with this, and I again, I
Speaker 3: think there's just a lot of strategy here, Like how
Speaker 3: in one of these people, I bet we don't see
Speaker 3: Nick for a while. That's okay. We don't need Lex
Speaker 3: to come back for a minute. He gave us so
Speaker 3: much to work with and he.
Speaker 2: Can be Jim Belle reeve he can be in planning
Speaker 2: to make the Injustice gangway.
Speaker 3: And he gave us so much to work with in
Speaker 3: this film that was so so enjoyable that you're like,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm fed, I'm satiated, and there's enough characters here.
Speaker 3: I want to spend more time with Hawkgirl. I want
Speaker 3: to spend more time with mister Terrific easily the runway
Speaker 3: of the show, so I think the ensemble was incredible,
Speaker 3: delighted in spending time with him, and I want to
Speaker 3: spend more time with all these folks in New Properties
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how do you feel about something I know?
Speaker 2: Where was one of my reads the first time I
Speaker 2: saw it. I feel kind of differently about it now,
Speaker 2: especially because I love Common's bimbo read. But let's talk
Speaker 2: about the women of James gun Let's talk about that
Speaker 2: Common because we get you know, Lois, she's a badass,
Speaker 2: she's tenacious, she's gonna this happen, she's wearing a little vest,
Speaker 2: you know, and she's very much in that mold of
Speaker 2: your kind of James Gunn strong, powerful, badass, angry woman.
Speaker 2: And then the other women in the movie with Kat Grunt,
Speaker 2: with Eve, we kind of get this more like bimbo
Speaker 2: kind of thing, but the bimbos here are also you know,
Speaker 2: Eve arguably saves the day. Yeah, So, how did you
Speaker 2: read the kind of women in this movie, because there
Speaker 2: were also a lot of them for a superhero movie.
Speaker 2: That's another funny thing about this movie.
Speaker 4: There were yes, Yes, I loved that. We basically we got,
Speaker 4: as you said, those two different archetypes. We get the strong,
Speaker 4: like ambitious reporter, a journalist who is going to break
Speaker 4: this case. And then we get the unseemingly like genius
Speaker 4: bimbo type who has been this whole time, like since
Speaker 4: the opening of the movie. We the whole theater erupts
Speaker 4: with laughter when you know the fight is happening. Uh,
Speaker 4: and she's just there like taking selfies the whole time.
Speaker 4: We find out she's been taking selfies of like war
Speaker 4: plans and all of this, And I thought.
Speaker 2: That was like such a fun, good twist and both
Speaker 2: sat in the movie. I really enjoyed how it was
Speaker 2: very clear at the beginning that it was a lot
Speaker 2: of men laughing at her, like you would always hear
Speaker 2: it when she was in the background, and as a
Speaker 2: kind of reality of what she is doing is revealed,
Speaker 2: they suddenly find that like a lot less funny, which.
Speaker 3: I pause here really quick because I've talked to a
Speaker 3: lot of people who view this differently. Now I'm with you, ladies.
Speaker 3: I was like, Eve is strategically taking photos of herself
Speaker 3: in front of materials that she can leave your set.
Speaker 3: But some folks were like, that was completely coincidental that
Speaker 3: Eve had just been like that had.
Speaker 1: Maybe three times, but not like.
Speaker 3: That. She said, this is an intelligent woman, maybe it's
Speaker 3: not like a genius, which I think is okay, Like
Speaker 3: she's like she.
Speaker 4: Has emotional and social intelligence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't have to be a genius. Also as well,
Speaker 2: like she's smart enough to know that the men in
Speaker 2: the room do not take her seriously enough. Yet she
Speaker 2: can use her phone, her private phone takes the relationship
Speaker 2: with Jimmy.
Speaker 3: That's causing people to have like trouble because she's chasing
Speaker 3: after Jimmy, who I think, if we think in like
Speaker 3: cinematical language, is not someone that is often pictured is
Speaker 3: like desirable, right, and so like they're confused that somebody
Speaker 3: who's quote hot would go after somebody who doesn't think
Speaker 3: much of her. She must I'm telling.
Speaker 4: You something I relate to Eve a lot, because I
Speaker 4: know exactly what she saw in Jimmy.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I know exactly. I actually have to say though,
Speaker 2: I actually think so. I did speak to the wonderful
Speaker 2: Sarah Sampio, who played Eve, and I asked her and
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I felt because she was with
Speaker 2: like Joel said, she was with the engineer actress Maria
Speaker 2: and she they kind of put them there as the villains.
Speaker 2: And I asked her and I said, well, I think
Speaker 2: that you guys pretty complex characters. I said, what do
Speaker 2: you think drives Eve? And she said, well, it's just
Speaker 2: all about security. Like so Lex was security. Lex was
Speaker 2: a rich guy, a nice life, clothes security. But Lex
Speaker 2: then also was a narcissistic guy who puts his women
Speaker 2: in a pocket universe prison his eyes. And also what
Speaker 2: I really loved is the moment he threw something at Eve, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, in the first screening that me and
Speaker 2: Joel went to, a man laughed when he threw the pennin.
Speaker 2: Somebody laughed. I was like, cannot, I'm fighting. I love that.
Speaker 2: Eve was like no, I'm not doing that. And then
Speaker 2: it's really funny because to me, it's extremely clear that
Speaker 2: Jimmy represents a different kind of security, which is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: well he has a day to day job. He is
Speaker 2: not like an insane billionaette. He is the safety of
Speaker 2: the normal. I think that what James Gunn did that's
Speaker 2: really funny. Is this kind of play of like Jimmy
Speaker 2: Olsen as the unexpectedly hot guy that everybody has a
Speaker 2: crush on. I think that's a fun game because Sky
Speaker 2: is also charming.
Speaker 3: Can I just put such a sweetheart?
Speaker 5: I don't think Jimmy treats her well.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no no. In her mind compel no, no, no,
Speaker 2: no no.
Speaker 3: I did say in my interview that she what she
Speaker 3: found attractive in Jimmy is the fact that he told
Speaker 3: her no, and she often doesn't get told no. And
Speaker 3: here's here's my point. Carmen earlier, like, listen, this is
Speaker 3: a person of intelligence who is smart enough to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'll play on your misunderstanding of who I am as
Speaker 3: a person to get information to protect myself. And she
Speaker 3: also is going for a guy who has zero interested
Speaker 3: in her. And both things can be true, and both
Speaker 3: can make her for a really interesting character. And I
Speaker 3: love Eve. I would dive for Eve. I think she's
Speaker 3: perfect me too.
Speaker 2: And I also think it's like I think the reason
Speaker 2: that people don't like it is they don't like the
Speaker 2: idea that there are different types of intelligence emotional intelligence.
Speaker 2: They don't they basically don't want to say what they
Speaker 2: think about Eve is like she is a self serving character,
Speaker 2: but it's actually okay to be self serving to protect
Speaker 2: yourself in that situation. And I also think it's an interesting,
Speaker 2: funny kind of play on what we expect from women
Speaker 2: in superho movies, because there were moments where I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: is he like is this too obvious? Like she's bending
Speaker 2: over in front of the Fortress of Solitude and her
Speaker 2: butts in her little tight leggings and I'm like yeah,
Speaker 2: And I was like I was, But then I was like, actually,
Speaker 2: this is what it is like to read a comic book.
Speaker 2: Is like you find those brilliant, cool women who are
Speaker 2: also drawn super cheesecakey and like living in these really
Speaker 2: complicated different situations. So I think in that way, I
Speaker 2: I did really enjoy it. I need to know. I
Speaker 2: need to know what Cat Grant has been working on.
Speaker 2: I think this like funny Cat Grant. I want to
Speaker 2: see her more. I want to see what she can do.
Speaker 2: Let's let her be more active in the next one,
Speaker 2: because again, like that is a character in the comics
Speaker 2: who has always done so much. She's owned her own
Speaker 2: media empire and the TV shows she like. I want
Speaker 2: to see Kat using her boob shaking for good. I
Speaker 2: believe she has a promotion.
Speaker 3: For Supergirl is what I'm seeing. I'm hoping we see
Speaker 3: her really step up in.
Speaker 2: The Oh, that's a great call at she didn't consider that.
Speaker 1: What's interesting to me about Miss Tesmaker the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: five version is less like that. I think she's obviously
Speaker 1: quite smart. I think she obviously was taking those pictures
Speaker 1: purposefully to have a chip just in case things went
Speaker 1: bad with Lex and she had some bargaining power to
Speaker 1: get out of there and potentially take revenge. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the thing Like I I think Eve is clearly
Speaker 1: very smart. She clearly was being very strategic with the
Speaker 1: evidence she was gathering. I think to me, like the
Speaker 1: the debate about whether she was doing it on purpose
Speaker 1: is like, for me, it misses the point. I think
Speaker 1: what's interesting about Eve is she is this kind of
Speaker 1: character that you know you need in a story like
Speaker 1: this often, and it's the person who has like the
Speaker 1: it's not even like a a crisis of ethics or morals.
Speaker 2: She clearly knows what's loyalties.
Speaker 1: She she knows what's happening is wrong, but she's not
Speaker 1: really gonna do anything about it unless it's bad for
Speaker 1: her exactly, And I think that's interesting and that's interesting, right,
Speaker 1: Like she's waiting until like it's bad for her and
Speaker 1: then she's ready to jump ship. That to me is
Speaker 1: like if you want to criticize even for anything, you
Speaker 1: can criticize her for that, which is basically she's almost
Speaker 1: entirely self serving about her decision to be good, which
Speaker 1: is again like kind of interesting to me. That's there's
Speaker 1: everybody out of everybody else in that control room like
Speaker 1: controlling Ultraman, controlling the Hammer of Borovia, helping Lex do
Speaker 1: like the worst fucking shit imprison dozens. It's not a
Speaker 1: hundreds of people in like extra judicial pocket universes where
Speaker 1: they are tortured like fucking forever and executed by Lex himself,
Speaker 1: like like none of them really is like this is
Speaker 1: fucked up, maybe a little bit, but certainly not enough
Speaker 1: to like do anything about it, and so she's the
Speaker 1: only one who's like, Okay, this is fucked up. I'm
Speaker 1: getting great stuff out of it, and right now it's
Speaker 1: pretty good, but I could see how it could turn
Speaker 1: into a bad situation. So let me just like just
Speaker 1: in case, like gather all this stuff. I think that's
Speaker 1: really to me, that's really interesting, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think that there's a world in which, you know, she's
Speaker 1: all about safety. I think there's a world in which
Speaker 1: you could say that she's probably does she care about
Speaker 1: Jimmy or is she looking for a safe landing spot
Speaker 1: to get out of here? I think either reading is
Speaker 1: interesting to me, you know. And so she's a I
Speaker 1: think she's a much more intentional character than the kind
Speaker 1: of surface level is she dumb or not? Like conversation
Speaker 1: gives her credit for and then the conversation and then
Speaker 1: the things that happened that follow after that once you
Speaker 1: accept that, are are much more interesting because again I
Speaker 1: don't is she a she saves the day, but I
Speaker 1: would argue she does it for like almost entirely selfish reasons,
Speaker 1: which is interesting.
Speaker 2: I think that's also like great because that's how real
Speaker 2: decisions are made at all times, and Lex is the
Speaker 2: opposite end of that, where he is doing all of this,
Speaker 2: like he admits to engineering an international crisis just so
Speaker 2: he can kill Superman. So in her own way, her
Speaker 2: saving the day just so she can escape Lex is
Speaker 2: actually like really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that is one of the surprise, breakout interesting
Speaker 2: conversations and characters from this movie. And I really really
Speaker 2: hope that we do get the world that is promised.
Speaker 2: And I just think it's funny. Like the second time
Speaker 2: I watched the movie, they have the girls in the
Speaker 2: office be like he's so hot, and you think they're
Speaker 2: talking about Clark, but they're talking about Jimmy And you
Speaker 2: know what. I sometimes there are just weird guys like
Speaker 2: that who every girl finds hot, Like it's just true.
Speaker 3: You know what, boy, Summer guys, what happened?
Speaker 1: You know what it is? It's like kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: Pete Davidson is also tall and funny, so a bit
Speaker 1: of other guys like like the Count and Crows guy.
Speaker 1: What needs to happen is the first hot I don't
Speaker 1: know about woman to break the seal that he hates.
Speaker 1: This air of mystery around the weird guy for the
Speaker 1: rest of them, where everybody else is like, well, I
Speaker 1: wonder what it is. I mean, starts the mistique.
Speaker 2: We know that we know Eve like is one of
Speaker 2: only many girls and Jimmy Olson's phone like, and you.
Speaker 1: Know the other thing is Jimmy. We say that he
Speaker 1: doesn't treat her well. I would slightly push back and
Speaker 1: say that I actually think Jimmy is being pretty upfront
Speaker 1: about his feelings with her. He's making them, He's making
Speaker 1: them as obvious as he can be without being rude
Speaker 1: about it. Right, And whenever, you know, I live in
Speaker 1: a Bravo household, I love I love, I love all
Speaker 1: the blow decks. I'm watching them all the time. And
Speaker 1: when ever there's like some sort of romance happening, like
Speaker 1: on below Deeck of one of these shows below Deck,
Speaker 1: primarily I'll be like, you know what this and you
Speaker 1: can see that the that the the lady involved is
Speaker 1: kind of like losing interest. I would always I'll always
Speaker 1: say to Christina, my wife, I'll be like, you know
Speaker 1: what he needs to do right now is just cut
Speaker 1: it off, is just get interested in somebody else, And
Speaker 1: that okay, And that's kind of that's part of Jimmy's
Speaker 1: things day it's not like he's not chasing her. He's
Speaker 1: not like he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Even see her. Hot is like your girlfriend, and he
Speaker 2: was like she's hot. Okay, I'm like.
Speaker 3: Wuk out of here, Jimmy gay guys. Something I've bend
Speaker 3: really interesting about the conversation we're having right now, and
Speaker 3: something I've noticed as I'm watching other folks have their
Speaker 3: conversations around Superman. It's like, as much as Korinsman does
Speaker 3: the job that he needs to do, and he's great
Speaker 3: for this movie, and we really like Superman, I feel
Speaker 3: like so much the conversation is about everything that happens
Speaker 3: around Superman. And some folks have even said that, you know,
Speaker 3: his fight isn't the like he doesn't get the big fight,
Speaker 3: like the best fight for some folks is mister Terrific.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sure, I think you know.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 3: I don't want to do too much Marvel to DC comparison,
Speaker 3: but I'm really intrigued by this idea of Marvel starts
Speaker 3: their universe with Iron Man, and for all intented purposes,
Speaker 3: RDJ becomes like this cemented grounding force for Marvel going
Speaker 3: forward by starting with korans with Superman nailing the character
Speaker 3: us all loving him, but giving us so much of
Speaker 3: the rest of the world, and understanding that there's a
Speaker 3: long history of supers before we dive into this world.
Speaker 3: I think DC has done something really interesting in that
Speaker 3: we could sort of get under all of these characters
Speaker 3: and invested in them in a way that propels I
Speaker 3: think perhaps a longer arc of their universe then what
Speaker 3: Marvel has struggled with, which is like once the main
Speaker 3: you know, when Koren's at least, I feel like DC
Speaker 3: is going to be okay. We have so many other
Speaker 3: people to fall back on, you know, without RDJ, and
Speaker 3: without the person was poster replace RDJ our Black Panther.
Speaker 3: You know, I do wonder like it's the setup. Does
Speaker 3: it work better for you guys REDC or if not better,
Speaker 3: then do you see this as a sustainable way forward
Speaker 3: for them?
Speaker 2: I think it's a natural response and a smart response
Speaker 2: because it's basically reverse engineering what MCU did. So instead
Speaker 2: of like doomsday, we're like, oh, it's gonna be every cameo.
Speaker 2: How long are they gonna be in it? And there's
Speaker 2: gonna be thirty five cast members. James Gun instead was like, hey, well,
Speaker 2: if you have your thirty five cast members. Here your
Speaker 2: world has already exploded, then we don't get into our
Speaker 2: Avengers replication situation. And then from here, if the movie
Speaker 2: does well, then great. We actually have a ton of
Speaker 2: different people we can follow. And I'm gonna say something,
Speaker 2: I don't think this is the first time James Gunn
Speaker 2: did this. I think the first time James dun did
Speaker 2: this was with The Suicide Squad. But the movie did
Speaker 2: not make enough money for that world to kind of
Speaker 2: build out and explode it the way he wanted, so
Speaker 2: he changed tax he bought the characters he wanted to
Speaker 2: into this world with, like the Frank Rios continuation of
Speaker 2: the Rick Flagg Junior storyline. Oh, Frank rio I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna lie. I love the original so Sid Squad movie,
Speaker 2: so I'm very excited to see Rick Flagg Senior hunting
Speaker 2: down Peacemaker, who I believe should be dead for killing
Speaker 2: Rick the Flag Junior. So and I thought his representation
Speaker 2: of this kind of tired cynical, like he knows that
Speaker 2: arresting Superman is a bad idea, but he's also like,
Speaker 2: that's just what we have to do as the government,
Speaker 2: which is something I also feel like is very relevant
Speaker 2: and real right now. And I think that that version
Speaker 2: of this world where it's world built out, we already
Speaker 2: know James Gun can make a TV show that was
Speaker 2: a hit, Peacemaker, Creature Commando's unexpectedly great. I think that
Speaker 2: he is setting up a ripe playground to take from
Speaker 2: in both both movies and TV, with a platform like
Speaker 2: HBO that actually has a massive audience for fantastic TV.
Speaker 2: I think that DC is in a better situation than
Speaker 2: Marvel is when it comes to balancing the TV and
Speaker 2: movies of it all. Aaron, what character if you were
Speaker 2: gonna go from here, would you be most excited to
Speaker 2: see carried On in a different story Superman? Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: But I love that because that's not, after our conversation,
Speaker 2: not necessarily what you would think, but that I think
Speaker 2: is the strength of what Corn Sweat did here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, I think Gun does an incredible job with an
Speaker 5: ensemble cast. He's done it through all the Guardians. He's
Speaker 5: introduced more people to the Guardians. He got to a
Speaker 5: point where at the end of Guardians three, I was like,
Speaker 5: I want to watch this new set of Guardians with
Speaker 5: the little Kid and Big Groot and everything yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5: As much as I love all the cast of characters
Speaker 5: in this and I think there's I do think mister
Speaker 5: Shrift as the most exciting fight scene, even if it
Speaker 5: might be a little bit of recycled assets from yon
Speaker 5: DU's Arrow, you know, going in there like but you know,
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 2: And the kids that I saw it with loved that
Speaker 2: and they thought it was Oh I loved it, but
Speaker 2: also that was like, to them, felt like an intentional homage,
Speaker 2: and they're almost getting that feeling, you know, being eleven,
Speaker 2: but they're going, oh, that's like Yondu's Arrow and then
Speaker 2: and it feels really similar. And they're kind of getting
Speaker 2: to have that critical reading of cinema that we all
Speaker 2: love to have as kids, and they're getting to put
Speaker 2: that on there, which I think is another thing that's
Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. But yeah, you're right, Like.
Speaker 5: I do think we'll talk about this more with the
Speaker 5: future of DC and where the movies will go. I'm
Speaker 5: not sure if anything from this movie jumped out at
Speaker 5: me of like I cannot wait for a movie starring
Speaker 5: this person, but I'm excited to see this group. I'm
Speaker 5: excited to see the Justice Gang now with Metamorpho, go
Speaker 5: tackle something. But I don't want a Metamorpho solo movie.
Speaker 5: I don't want a Metamorpho TV show. I don't want,
Speaker 5: you know, like I don't want to play my cards
Speaker 5: too early here. But the fact that they're talking about
Speaker 5: a Jimmy Olsen TV series to me is very concerning.
Speaker 5: But we can talk about that later.
Speaker 3: Daily Planet, how it's spent so much time in there.
Speaker 3: I will love see Lois do an investigation, love that
Speaker 3: whole cast.
Speaker 2: Let's go to a quick break and then talk about
Speaker 2: exactly that, because I do think I will make the
Speaker 2: argument for why I think a Jimmy Olsen's show is good.
Speaker 2: But yes, let's go, and then let's come back.
Speaker 1: And we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back, and we're back.
Speaker 3: I want to wait.
Speaker 1: I want to quickly say something about like the Superman,
Speaker 1: I think that DC and Marvel in their movie properties
Speaker 1: are there's an important structural difference we mentioned like starting
Speaker 1: with Iron Man and launching it from there, there are
Speaker 1: I think by launching with characters that air quotes nobody
Speaker 1: really cared about, which is true like on the larger
Speaker 1: cultural sense rights, Yeah, Marvel created this framework that allowed
Speaker 1: for their tremendous success and was based in the success
Speaker 1: of those individual characters and Marvel's ability to present them
Speaker 1: in exciting and winning such situations like the Guardians of
Speaker 1: the Galaxy, another team that nobody gives it about.
Speaker 2: Definitely not DC.
Speaker 1: It's different like Superman. We talked about Superman kind of
Speaker 1: being like, you don't notice how great he is and
Speaker 1: all these other things pop out and he doesn't get
Speaker 1: the best fight. That's because to me, Superman is like
Speaker 1: you know, it's like Miles McClue in the medium is
Speaker 1: the message. Superman is the medium. He's the world in
Speaker 1: which these characters operate.
Speaker 2: Every if you talk relative to him.
Speaker 1: If you if you're talking about DC, it's no disrespect
Speaker 1: to the incredible stable of characters in DC. It's Superman, Batman,
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, and then you can kind of like I
Speaker 1: guess Green Lantern.
Speaker 2: And it depends on ye and when it is it
Speaker 2: really depends. Long time it was Halloquinn was the fourth PID.
Speaker 1: It's those three, and if you nail those three, it
Speaker 1: allows all these other interesting characters to work. And if
Speaker 1: you nail those three kind of by design, you lose
Speaker 1: sight of like how important of a Lynchpin. Those three
Speaker 1: are to their worlds like Superman. You just once in
Speaker 1: the first five minutes of the movie, once I bought that, Like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Corn Sweat fucking nailed it. He's Superman, He's Clark k Comby.
Speaker 1: Now I'm paying attention to all this other stuff because
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, huge relief, Corn Sweat is Superman.
Speaker 1: I don't need to worry about it anymore. And now
Speaker 1: I'm going to pay attention to every thing else. And
Speaker 1: I think that's different from the way that Marvel is
Speaker 1: set up. And maybe and maybe it's you know it
Speaker 1: was if they keep nailing these characterizations as they did
Speaker 1: with Superman, it really might be DC's turn to rule.
Speaker 3: So then the follow up question is if Corn Sweat
Speaker 3: is a great Superman and Robinson is a great Batman, oh,
Speaker 3: do we say a world where these two couldna beat
Speaker 3: each other? Superman and Batman can get it.
Speaker 2: Wal I think because of how stylized and colorful and
Speaker 2: influenced by the comics this world was, I think that
Speaker 2: there is a world where I absolutely would believe that
Speaker 2: this is Metropolis and that dark, ass depressing world the
Speaker 2: Patson in is that same Gotham like in the same
Speaker 2: world I think it was. I think there's gonna have
Speaker 2: to be massive stylistic differences. They're gonna have Guy Gardner
Speaker 2: Green Lantern played by Nathan Fillyon, and I love the
Speaker 2: representation of the character. They're going to have him in
Speaker 2: that true detective Dark Dreary, HBO Max, you know, serious
Speaker 2: prestige TV show, And that doesn't seem like right now,
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense, But I don't have
Speaker 2: any worry that they're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: pull that off.
Speaker 1: You hear this a lot, Like I've heard a lot
Speaker 1: of people say, well, I don't know how you would
Speaker 1: do it. I don't think you could have that Batman
Speaker 1: in this Superman world. And I agree that, like the
Speaker 1: contrast would be immense, but I kind of think that's
Speaker 1: what would make it interesting.
Speaker 2: So cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like, obviously it would not be easy,
Speaker 1: but Superman wasn't easy, and.
Speaker 2: James it was the hoddest movie he ever made in
Speaker 2: his life.
Speaker 1: It's only the masterful way that they pulled it off
Speaker 1: that makes it look easy. And so I think that
Speaker 1: there's absolutely a world in which Robert Pattinson's Batman that
Speaker 1: tone can exist in the same movie as Corn sweat
Speaker 1: Superman with that tone, I think there's absolutely a world
Speaker 1: where that could help.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you what the lynchpin is. It's Pattinson.
Speaker 3: He's got the range. He understands he understands comedy so well,
Speaker 3: but he also understands drama so well, and we've seen
Speaker 3: him flip back and forth within different space. I mean,
Speaker 3: you look at Batman specifically, and while we're not getting
Speaker 3: the sort of like golly gee of it all, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter because Batman is never gonna hit a golly
Speaker 3: g Yeah. Ever, like the whole point is that they're
Speaker 3: complete opposites of one another. I think it works really
Speaker 3: really well potentially.
Speaker 2: I kind of love the idea that the map of
Speaker 2: James Gun's DC world is like the map of the
Speaker 2: comics where you're trying to work out, like really where
Speaker 2: they are, so like they say Metropolis is actually Delaware
Speaker 2: and that Gotham is actually New Jersey, like if you
Speaker 2: put them on a map, And it's really funny because
Speaker 2: we all know culturally those are not the connotations we make.
Speaker 2: But I kind of love the idea. It's like, why
Speaker 2: didn't Batman come and help Superman? With this. Have you
Speaker 2: watched The Batman? That man is just fighting NonStop serial
Speaker 2: killers and it flooded. But also like and we can't see,
Speaker 2: we can see why Superman is too busy to go
Speaker 2: to that world. I think it would work, and I
Speaker 2: think eventually I've heard that, you know, Matt Reeves he
Speaker 2: finished that script. I think all those interviews with James
Speaker 2: Gunn being like Matt Reeves is slow as probably exactly
Speaker 2: the if somebody called me slow in a Rolling Stone interview,
Speaker 2: I would also probably quickly send them a draft and
Speaker 2: be like, I've finished. Definitely was going to send you
Speaker 2: this anyway. But like, I think it's a timing thing.
Speaker 2: I think it would make sense, And I also think
Speaker 2: the best thing is like we have time to see
Speaker 2: where this is gonna go. I mean, they're doing a
Speaker 2: clay Face movie that's written by Mike Flanagan that my
Speaker 2: understanding is probably not even gonna be set at the
Speaker 2: same timeline in the same like time era as this.
Speaker 2: We have three hundred years of history. There's so many
Speaker 2: different ways that they could do it, and I just
Speaker 2: really hope that they keep taking big, ambitious swings, because
Speaker 2: I think that is the thing where even to me
Speaker 2: on like a Rosi's you know, I never I don't
Speaker 2: really grade stuff on a curve because I think Parasite
Speaker 2: is a five star movie. But I also think, like
Speaker 2: you know, some lifetime movie I watch as a five
Speaker 2: style movie. Like I don't grade things relatively because I
Speaker 2: find that really impossible. But like I do believe that
Speaker 2: even though this is like a movie that maybe I
Speaker 2: thought was like a seven out of ten, objectively, I
Speaker 2: think it is so intricate and interesting and full of
Speaker 2: so many interesting ideas that it is a launchpad for
Speaker 2: something that is really exciting and something else. Guys, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you the people, the humans, they are excited to
Speaker 2: see the Superman, Like this is not having the you know,
Speaker 2: when Batman came out, which by the way, made tons
Speaker 2: of money, let's just remember that, and also had a
Speaker 2: fantastic romance at the center, which I think is very
Speaker 2: interesting compara with this, because it's a romance that's based
Speaker 2: on a lack of honesty and like a kind of
Speaker 2: deception and a need to hide who they are. But
Speaker 2: obviously Lewis and Clark is all about honesty, and I
Speaker 2: think that's really interesting. But also, like that movie, so
Speaker 2: much of the conversation was like can a kid watched this?
Speaker 2: Like it's too scary? There's murders, like does where does
Speaker 2: this fit in? Superman doesn't have any of those questions
Speaker 2: around it. Everyone's just like cool, Yeah, James, James Gunn's
Speaker 2: made this like it was almost I almost feel like
Speaker 2: he said it was the hardest movie he's ever made.
Speaker 2: But in a way it's it's also like a really
Speaker 2: simple It seems simple as a launch pad, like hey,
Speaker 2: here's a story about Superman just punching his way through
Speaker 2: a fight, but it has these threads. I mean, dude,
Speaker 2: when I interviewed Wendell Pisse, who is you know, plays
Speaker 2: Perry White, who is an icon, he was giving me
Speaker 2: the deepest answers about like journalism and the things he
Speaker 2: learned on the wire, about that he brought to Perry
Speaker 2: and that he's going to get to explore as Perry.
Speaker 2: You don't lie to Wendle Pierce about that, you know,
Speaker 2: James Gun's not there hyping him up, going like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're going to be able to do it. No, even
Speaker 2: though we've learned that with Eddie. He was treated like
Speaker 2: that by Fox when they were making the X Men
Speaker 2: movies and was basically told, don't worry, Darwin's gonna come back.
Speaker 2: You're going to get to do it. I don't feel
Speaker 2: like James Gun's done that here. I feel like he's
Speaker 2: built a community and a cinematic kind of experience that
Speaker 2: is getting people excited. And now hopefully we will get
Speaker 2: to see that kind of spread out and get wider
Speaker 2: and encompass more storytelling, encompass different kinds of people, different
Speaker 2: kinds of stories. And I just I feel like, unless
Speaker 2: something really surprising happens, I feel like Superman maybe is
Speaker 2: going to be the bigger hit than Fantastic For. And
Speaker 2: that's kind of the crazy thing to me.
Speaker 5: Oh, I think it is setting itself up for sure
Speaker 5: to be bigger than Fantastic For.
Speaker 2: I know, but that seems crazy. It's a crazy It's
Speaker 2: really just yeah, dude, You've got to understand. Superman movies,
Speaker 2: when you actually look back at them, have not really
Speaker 2: been that financially successful, especially over the last like twenty
Speaker 2: five years. Superman is a cultural icon and a cultural symbol,
Speaker 2: but not necessarily a big seller in comic shops, not
Speaker 2: always like making like think about Superman returns from two
Speaker 2: thousand and six. Everything from then on has been very
Speaker 2: controversial in the Superman landscape, whereas Fantastic Four, those movies
Speaker 2: made a lot of money the original tim Story movies,
Speaker 2: but not just that, they have gained a nostalgia around them.
Speaker 2: And another one of the things about the Fantastic Four
Speaker 2: is this is a project that people have been waiting
Speaker 2: for the MCU to adapt for like twenty years, Like
Speaker 2: since they first started. They have said when will they
Speaker 2: get those rights back? So the fact that a Superman
Speaker 2: movie is potentially going to upend the Fantastic Four with
Speaker 2: a cast like that, with the MCU putting Matt Schackman
Speaker 2: on it, who did One Division, which was one of
Speaker 2: their biggest successes, with it coming at a time when
Speaker 2: the MCU basically needs to reset, I think it will
Speaker 2: be an upset if Superman ends up making more money
Speaker 2: than the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I don't know. I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: Let's go to a quick.
Speaker 1: And we're back.
Speaker 2: We're back. Let's talk about what it means for the
Speaker 2: future of DC. Jason, what are you most excited to
Speaker 2: kind of see coming out of this. We haven't even
Speaker 2: talked about the teas of Supergirl. Supergirl is our next
Speaker 2: movie coming out in less than a year. Now, got
Speaker 2: clay Face coming out next year. Allegedly. Two Peacemaker is
Speaker 2: confirmed for this year. Then we've got Lantern's next year.
Speaker 2: Other than that those four projects, nothing else is confirmed though,
Speaker 2: which I think is an interesting space to be in.
Speaker 2: But I guess you're most excited.
Speaker 1: The Brave and the Bowl and whatever that is actually
Speaker 1: going to be because because that's the big that's the
Speaker 1: second part of the trinity that must appear, right, Batman
Speaker 1: must appear at some point. Is it going to be
Speaker 1: a Brave in the Bold story with Batman and Robin?
Speaker 1: Is it going to be starring Robert Pattinson or another actor?
Speaker 1: I think all of those things are on the table,
Speaker 1: and to me, that is hugely consequential. Like that, it's massive.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what that movie is and
Speaker 1: if it is as previously reported.
Speaker 2: Joelle, how about you.
Speaker 3: There's a movie called Dynamic Duo coming up animated.
Speaker 2: It looks so good. It looks like.
Speaker 3: Yeah and animation. So they're mixing both. They're stop animations
Speaker 3: and it's interesting because it's it's puppetry, but it's like
Speaker 3: a mechanic puppetry, so like the they're like running, like, wait,
Speaker 3: what's happening? Uh. You could see some of the teasers
Speaker 3: they've dropped online for that. That looks really good. And
Speaker 3: that's a Dick Grayson and Robin Damian Wayne story I believe,
Speaker 3: which is really it's a Jason Todter is a Damian
Speaker 3: Let me sure, sorry, it's Jason Todd. Yeah. So it's
Speaker 3: Jason Todd and Dick Grayson, which is one of my
Speaker 3: favorite combos, uh for those heroes. And I just think
Speaker 3: it looks really good. It's fun. I think it's really
Speaker 3: important that they get animation right, especially if we consider
Speaker 3: what Sony's doing with the Spider Verse and how influential
Speaker 3: those movies have been. And Sony's on a continue run
Speaker 3: with the K Pop Demon Hunters. I think they're teaming inja.
Speaker 3: Turtles movie is one of the best animated films I've seen.
Speaker 3: Yeah years, I love it. Uh, And so it's and
Speaker 3: Warner Bros. Used to be the king of like animated
Speaker 3: superhero stuff, like they couldn't miss for years, and then
Speaker 3: it's took a sharp, horrific turn left and I can't
Speaker 3: even watch most of their animated films now.
Speaker 2: And this is going to be a cinema released too,
Speaker 2: rather than a straight.
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I think is a part So
Speaker 3: I'm really hyped for that. But if we're talking live action,
Speaker 3: bring me those Lantern court right now. Rosie and I
Speaker 3: have already been contemplating if you are a fan of
Speaker 3: the Justice League animated series like we are, Hawt Girl
Speaker 3: has a relationship with John j Yeah, John Stewart screen
Speaker 3: lantern and it's so hot and so fun and.
Speaker 2: Setting up with having Aaron Pierre and obviously Isabella calm on.
Speaker 2: What are you most excited about?
Speaker 4: Well, this movie had a lot of hints to punk
Speaker 4: rock in it, and I was really excited about the
Speaker 4: the hints throughout and then of course the reveal at
Speaker 4: the end that Crypto is in fact super uh Supergirls
Speaker 4: Dog and I'm excited to see where that goes because
Speaker 4: I think that'll be e and more punk rock and
Speaker 4: even more just like amping it up in that direction.
Speaker 4: And I want more Crypto because that was really fun
Speaker 4: and cute, So more.
Speaker 2: Of that big Crypto fan. Aaron, how about you, what
Speaker 2: do you come out of this looking for?
Speaker 4: All?
Speaker 5: Right? Maybe looking forward to is the wrong word.
Speaker 2: But I'm most curious about Clayface.
Speaker 5: Yea interesting, but I'm curious about it because James Gunn
Speaker 5: has so far released Creature Commandos, Peacemaker, He's working on
Speaker 5: Peacemaker season two. He did Superman and then he's gonna
Speaker 5: do Supergirl. Clayface, is he fucking around too much? Like he?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, no no. Do you mean like character wise?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 5: I just mean like in general for the universe, like
Speaker 5: as Jason is saying, you have the three Pillars of PC, Superman, Batman,
Speaker 5: and Wonder Woman. I know he's got the Paradise Lost
Speaker 5: TV show, but that is in development.
Speaker 2: In production right struggles.
Speaker 5: So like, are we really just go I loved Guardians
Speaker 5: of the Galaxy. He also didn't establish anyone necessarily beyond
Speaker 5: the Guardians within Marvel Cannon. So the fact that he,
Speaker 5: you know, has the authority swamp thing clay Face, like,
Speaker 5: are we too obtuse with our.
Speaker 2: Choices early on?
Speaker 4: Here?
Speaker 5: Is what I worry about that.
Speaker 3: And I think it's a.
Speaker 2: Good I think it's a good question. But I also
Speaker 2: would say I think, like the Snyder era proved that
Speaker 2: you can have three, you can have the trinity. But
Speaker 2: if you don't people don't connect with them. That won't
Speaker 2: bring people. So I think that you know, corn sweats
Speaker 2: so good. I think you could do something like you
Speaker 2: know super Girl, who at times they've tried to bring
Speaker 2: into a kind of new trinity, right, so you have
Speaker 2: that next year, do something weird like Clayface, and then
Speaker 2: I would hope you're starting to think about braving the
Speaker 2: bold Batman. Wonder Woman I think is going to be
Speaker 2: a longer, more complicated process. But we did get reporting
Speaker 2: recently that Gun and Saffran did kill off a third
Speaker 2: Galgado Wonder Woman film, so there's definitely movie those children.
Speaker 2: I think I am like most excited. Something I loved
Speaker 2: about the something I loved about The Suicide Squad, which
Speaker 2: really made me re visit James Gun's movies, was just
Speaker 2: I thought the kind of anti imperialists like politics the
Speaker 2: seventies thriller vibes where he wasn't afraid to question the US.
Speaker 2: And I am seeing this movie and I'm not seeing
Speaker 2: any real American tanks in it, which means they probably
Speaker 2: did not have to pay the military.
Speaker 3: To make the police officers either a police.
Speaker 2: Officers either lots of firemen. I I think that this
Speaker 2: movie again is James Gunn saying, Hey, maybe the US
Speaker 2: is the bad guys. Maybe we should consider what we're
Speaker 2: doing in a really way that feels incredible, timely and important.
Speaker 2: And I am excited that we might be in a
Speaker 2: superhero world where the politics of the heroes may align
Speaker 2: more with like the politics of the audience, rather than
Speaker 2: the Ultimate inspired MCU world that was always very heavily
Speaker 2: built in military tech, built on the idea of in
Speaker 2: the background of the post nine to eleven world, the
Speaker 2: Iraq war, Tony Stark. You know, I am interested to
Speaker 2: see Superman and see a hero who's like I am
Speaker 2: just representing myself doing good. But I also love that
Speaker 2: he has people around him making him have the hard conversations,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think I was very moved by
Speaker 2: the Suicide Squad, and I on my second watch, I
Speaker 2: was very moved by this movie. And I'm excited to
Speaker 2: see that spread because Mike Flanagan incredibly emotionally intelligent, interesting person.
Speaker 2: Anna Nagero, who's writing the Supergirl movie, really interesting credits,
Speaker 2: really interesting take. Also that Supergirl movie. The comic is
Speaker 2: very bleak but very beautifully illustrated by Bill quis everly, So,
Speaker 2: I think there's just so many tonally interesting and politically
Speaker 2: resonant things that we can get back to that we
Speaker 2: haven't necessarily had in the superho movies of both the
Speaker 2: DC or MCU honestly in general. So that's kind of
Speaker 2: I think what I'm what I'm most looking forward to.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, folks, thanks for joining us. I'm eager one
Speaker 1: of these days, in one of these upcoming roundtables, to
Speaker 1: talk about our favorite double dipping actors. Who are the
Speaker 1: actors who have played characters in both universes?
Speaker 2: I want to know, Let's do it. Let's do it
Speaker 2: in DC also as well, that's what we've got to do.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the double dippers. Let's also talk about
Speaker 2: who has been the most superhero Character's almost comment. There's
Speaker 2: also because there's also triple dippers.
Speaker 1: There's triple divers if we count Star Wars, and quadruple
Speaker 1: dippers if we count Star Trek.
Speaker 2: So let's just red we're going to do about that.
Speaker 1: Coming up on X Rayvision, We're diving into more summer movies,
Speaker 1: more news, and of course the Fantastic for that's not
Speaker 1: for this episode. Thanks everyone, Bye bye x ray Vision
Speaker 1: is hosted by Jason Scepcion and Rosie Knight and is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wack.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Speaker 2: Heidi Our disc called Moderate Them