WEBVTT - Manner of Life 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:05.600 You live to try to defend your family, or you'd 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:09.440 live to try to defend people if you can. It's 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:11.760 not something I could put my finger on, but it's 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.120 just inside of us. I would wait into a hill 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.120 of bullets for somebody in my family to this day, 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.640 and I don't know why, but it would, and everybody 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.440 in my family would did the same. We just would. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.600 This is the Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:40.800 season three, episode eight, Manner of Life. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.360 a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.800 Jeff Shane. So far the season, we've heard a lot 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.320 about recent court proceedings between the Wagoners and the prosecution 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:56.320 that will shape upcoming trials. They've covered everything from where 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.800 the trials will be held, what evidence will be allowed 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:03.480 into testimony, and who might be charged with what. All 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.240 of this leads to what we hope will be some 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.560 small form of justice for the Roden, Gillie and Manly 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:12.679 families who lost the unthinkable. When the Maskaker initially happened 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.520 six years ago, a lot of the remaining family members 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:21.360 spoke publicly. Not so in recent years, however, we've made 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.080 contact with some people who want to share their memories 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.520 of their family. Here's Jeff speaking with a Roden family 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.520 member who reached out to us. They've asked us not 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.679 to use their name. I'm curious how you found us 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.720 and what made you contact us. Now, I drive a 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.200 lot on the road, and I listened to podcasts everywhere. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.880 I happened upon the pike in Masker, which you know, 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.200 is part of my extended family. So I wanted to 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.400 listen to it, and I was really impressed with the 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.320 respect that was given to the family, and so a 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.680 friend of mine and myself we eagerly wait every week 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.040 to hear it, and so I just commented on it, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.040 you know, thanking you all for being respectful to the family. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.440 What is that experience like losing loved ones but then 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.480 losing it in a way where other people are kind 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.280 of a part of your experience. It'd be a strange 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.079 thing to divine for you, because we would see each 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.679 other a few times a year at family unions and 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.160 what have you. So it was a giant shop. Man. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.160 I hate to say this, but it wasn't as hurting 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.399 to me as I know it was to a lot 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.640 of the very close family members, and it's hard to 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.239 describe a law such a loss of a large chunk 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:38.000 of a family. When you first heard the podcast, what 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.160 was your thought? Kind of got interested in yours because 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.200 you all would give the facts as they were, and 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.639 then you would talk about the possibilities of how that 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.040 would make people feel. So that was very interesting to me. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.360 These are not just people who were removed from this earth. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.800 They were people. They were real people. You actually going 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.280 after trying to bring real life people to this is 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.160 pretty exciting to me. I mean, not making them as 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.559 victims alone. You're making them as people and that's appreciated. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:09.679 Jeff asked what growing up as a member of the 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:13.640 Roden family was like he first spoke about Geneva Roden 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.240 as a reminder, Geneva is Chris Roden seniors and Kenneth's mother, 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.120 Frankie Hannah and little Chris's grandmother. Growing up, especially in 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.240 my younger years, we would go visit Geneva and her family, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.560 and the things I remember the most when you met Geneva, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.720 you were guaranteed a smile and always a hug, and 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.800 whatever they had, whether it be a watermelon or a 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:42.200 piece of cake or whatever it was was shared with you. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.880 When you got there, you just became one of the kids. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.320 Geneva just was always the sweetest thing ever was and 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.600 would just hug you to death. About three times a year, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.360 our family would get together and we would just pile 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.880 in a car and we would ride and see relatives, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.400 and Geneva lived close to other relatives, so we would 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.760 just kind of make a big round trip in two 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.280 Ohio and then back into Kentucky. We would spend two 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.840 or three days up there, just following up wherever we could. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.720 And our family was that way. If you went to 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.280 their house, they just made room for you. It didn't matter. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.960 You just had a great time and you go swimming 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.640 and you do this and that. We didn't have Facebook 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.680 or things like that in those days. It sounds like 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:25.919 you like a nice way to grow up. It was, 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:31.000 it really was. Immediately after the murders, Geneva spoke publicly 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.560 about the unimaginable loss she was facing. On April twenty second, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.640 twenty sixteen, in one single night, she lost her son's 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:45.280 Chris Roden Senior and Kenneth Roden, her grandchildren Frankie, Hannah 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:50.680 May and Little Chris Roden and her nephew Gary. Her 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.840 words were a stark juxtaposition to the idyllic life her 0:04:53.839 --> 0:05:04.720 family once lived. Love decided. I'm the mother Christopher Senior 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:14.400 and the mother of Kenneth, and from my mother's heart 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:22.440 had I hurt so bad inside from the day that 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:29.480 I flmed out. If there's someone out there that knows 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:40.280 anything about what happened with the pleased pleased coming forward, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:46.960 there has to be so one. It was all but 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:52.400 looks like the world had ended when I found out 0:05:53.440 --> 0:06:00.320 about the family that they took out my grandchildren, X 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:11.000 daughter at all, my nephew and my grandson, my girlfriend. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:18.679 There was eight members that they took that day, and 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:25.239 the hurt them blue way from a mother, I think 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.760 about a day night, I lose a lot of sleep 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:36.480 board and still what try to go on the rest 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.960 of my children is going to so much listen to 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:50.160 brothers the same day. I would have never dreamed that's 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:56.040 something that is would happen. Here are Stephanie and Jeff 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.760 speaking about Geneva Rodin. Geneva Rodin is nearly eighty years old, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:04.479 and it's impossible to imagine what she deals with every day. 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.720 Not only the court proceedings, but also being there for 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.920 her family because there's still many other family members who 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.640 rely on her and lean on her as the Rodan matriarch. 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.880 Several years ago, when we were first making the documentary 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.840 for Oxygen about the Rodent murders, Jeff and I actually 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.280 went to the nursing home that Geneva resided at. At 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.360 the time, we actually thought she was a distant cousin 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.120 to the Rodents, and we didn't realize until we got 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.680 there that she was actually Chris Senior's mother and that 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:39.600 she had lost her children and her grandchildren, And ultimately 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.240 she was uncomfortable speaking on camera, which we of course 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:46.400 completely understood. It was all just way too raw for 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.760 her and her level of grief was frankly unimaginable. Geneva 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.000 is really an example of a person who's frankly inspiring. 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.720 You know, We've said this many times since then. When 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:02.680 you meet another human being who has experienced such deep 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.120 pain and she can continue to push on and continue 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.520 to be there for her loved ones and show up 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:14.720 to court relentlessly and push through, then surely the rest 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.280 of us can push through whatever stressing us in our lives. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.640 And she's really offered us a lot of perspective. I 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.360 share this really simply to say the level of grief 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:30.720 that this family has experienced is incredibly far reaching. Geneva 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.320 Rodan and other members for her family, I would imagine 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.680 the catalysts for them wanting to speak out is to 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.560 bring attention to their family's case and not just how 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.800 to be about the accused Wagner family, and really remind 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.760 everyone that the victims, the Rodents in this case, were 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.480 real human beings who were not just what happened to 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.120 them in twenty sixteen. It's so true. And also, you know, 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:57.800 oftentimes when we talk about crime, the victims just become 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.680 a footnote. It's always about the manner of death and 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:05.280 less about the manner of life. And this is another 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.120 example that you know, Geneva is a living and breathing 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:13.719 woman who has had her entire family wiped out, and 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:19.840 whoever is responsible for that should pay. Jeff continued his 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.760 conversation with the Rodent family member. Where Chris Senior and 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.080 Gary and Kenneth were they around? Did you see them? 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.240 They were about probably eight or nine, maybe teen years younger. Man. 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.040 I remember Chris Junior and Kenneth and them they were 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.240 wandering around just doing what kids do. They played with us. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.280 Kids have always just played together. We really didn't keep 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.200 in contact after you know, outside of family unions. Every 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.480 life kept getting in a way for everyone. And that's 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.920 just a sad fact of the way it was. They 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.000 were just beating their way through this world, just like 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.280 everyone else. To believe, that's why this thing was more 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:04.640 shocking than one would think. It became clear that there 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.760 were obvious parallels between Chris Roden Senior's upbringing and how he, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.559 alongside his wife Dana, raised his own family. They were 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.120 just people, They were just good old Americans. She was 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.840 the daughter of a man named Tip who lost his 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.079 life in a little place called Jonesborough, Ohio. He was logging. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.600 An attractor come back on him and killed him. And 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.040 then not too long after that, she lost her mother. 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.360 That left Geneva with raising her own siblings. After losing 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:39.120 her mother and father, she got married and they had children, 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.520 And this happened at the same time, and that she 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.360 had this entire group of people, her siblings and her 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.640 own children that she was raising. So that takes an 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.840 immense amount of strength to do, giving the way the 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.600 world is in Geneva didn't have a whole lot to 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.719 get through this world, but she made it. She was 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.679 and she raised them, and she raised fine people. Geneva's 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.440 father was one of eight or ten brothers who grew 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.960 up down in Kentucky. They lived in poverty, but it's 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.920 not a poverty that most people would understand. During the wintertime, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.600 they didn't have shoes. They didn't even have leather to 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.160 put on their feet. They would rap rags or whatever 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.840 they could find around their feet just to get to school. 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.120 They went to school in a one room schoolhouse on 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.760 a little place called Grassy Creek. There was no way 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.559 to make a living for their father, James. That survival 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:42.080 instinct was passed down through through Geneva in most of 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.319 the family, and her dad was an amazing man, even 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.680 long before there were mechanics. He would find old cars 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.920 or tractors and make them run, and then he would 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.960 trade them for stuff that didn't run. Now, in that 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.920 trade he would get a little extra money which would 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.480 go to his family and they might be able to 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:07.040 buy a little something, a little bit of food. I've 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.080 heard with the Roden's being super resourceful with cars and 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.040 good with your hands, I've heard that about Chris Senior 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.959 being fiercely protective of one another and going to bath 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.839 for each other. It's the same stuff, and it's a 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.160 little easier for me then it would be for you, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.280 of course, because I know the family. But that is 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.280 very interesting that you can draw a line from the 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:31.120 early nineteen hundreds to her children and see similarities, like 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.480 Chris Junior would just jump under the hood of a 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.240 car and be able to fix it. I can see 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.680 those similarities and being able to defend each other. I 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:40.680 can see that going all the way back to that 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:43.000 side of the family. I just want to clarify by 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.240 Chris Junior, you mean Chris Roden sor yes, he's Chris 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:52.600 Junior to you, because there's another Chris. Yes. Jeff also 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.480 recently had a phone conversation with Talicia, Dana and Chris 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:01.800 Senior's niece and Hannah, Frankie and little Chris cousin. Well 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.400 gone more than six years now, the Rodents are present 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.360 with Talicia and live on with her young daughters. As 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.480 someone who has been working on this story for many years, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:14.160 I feel very touched by it, and I'm sure you 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.439 know obviously being related to everyone, it means a lot 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.000 to share her about and talk about it. Can you 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.240 hear me? Okay, yeah, I can hear you. I was 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.280 checking to see where the kids work. How many kids 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.600 do you have? I have foo? You have your hands fall? Yes, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.480 they're all girls. I actually have one named after aunt Dana, 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.640 and her name is Hannah Lynne. We gave her Hannah 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.800 after the two Hannah's and Lynne after Dana. That's beautiful. 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.400 So Dana was your great aunt and she was able 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.800 to meet your eldest daughter, Cherokee before everything happened. Dana 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.000 was my aunt. She was Cherokee's great aunt. So who 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:55.320 are your parents? My mother was Dana's sister, Kathie. She 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.040 has two sisters and a brother. Her brother's name is 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.960 James Manley. And then my other aunt Bobby Joe. As 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.920 a reminder, Talicia's aunt, Bobby Joe Manley is the one 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.960 who discovered the horrific crime scene and called nine one 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:21.000 one nine one yes, if yes, forty over? I need 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.680 who walked to the no ball? Okay, my brother halls dead? Okay, 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:36.840 what girl Davey has sat here? Forty seventy seventy forty 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:41.840 seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay fort zero seven seven 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:51.800 email correct, yes for you see man on yes, all 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.480 over the house. Okay, my brother Haws who says very look, 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:02.720 I'll beat the hell. Okay, we're gonna blood all hearts 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.720 the man. Can you coming the county? That's dad is down. 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:12.680 It's my county. H Okay, okay, I need to get 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:17.520 out of the house. They can drive over there. That's 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.560 a head running Christler and seen Garry Rod and Sank 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.640 and Gary Rod and start things ahead. Looks like the 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.440 dad take your vad. I think the great dads. I 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.640 don't speaker pop out of them. Okay. If there anybody 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:38.880 else in the house, I know. Okay, the door was lost, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.320 be good here, but on her friend team was and 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.440 I went in and hit her, landing on the floor 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.120 and went on house and I'm starting now. Okay, stay 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.280 out of the house the way anybody got her there? Okay, yeah, 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.600 all right, we don't get it. He's on my right. Okay, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:16:03.280 I thank you your mother. The trauma of that discovery 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.680 is long lasting. I used to hang out a lot 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.080 with Bobby Joe that like after everything happened, she just 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:17.160 like completely changed. Here again is Jeff as a reminder, 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.240 Bobby Joe Manly is Dana Roden's sister, and she discovered 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.360 the horrific crime scene at Chris Senior Roden and Frankie 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.360 Roden's house, and to just kind of put yourself in 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.280 her shoes, she found out that her loved ones were 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.160 heinously murdered, not by word of mouth, but actually by 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.880 discovering their bloody bodies. And an experience like that it 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.520 changes you forever, how could it not. And we did 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.160 a little research into severe trauma like the kind Bobby 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.920 Joe experienced, and only around seven percent of Americans report 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:51.160 experiencing an event like this. And obviously, even I would 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.360 say what Bobby Joe went through is probably worse than 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.520 what a lot of those seven percent report. It's just unimaginable, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.320 and I don't think anyone could ever understand what she's 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:09.359 dealt with. Here's steph again speaking with Telicia. To me 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:12.159 and Hannah were only like six months and four two 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.040 days apart. Wow, I just turned twenty four. I actually 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:17.680 have a picture of us on our baby and my 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.239 baby book in the Very Bad She was a year 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.440 and a half in this picture and I was five months. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.400 So you guys grew up together. The leat your rope 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.040 togeverybody was pretty close her and my little brother was 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.520 close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.400 Everybody used to ask me what I thought of Frankiella 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:39.520 was like, listen, me and Frankie and Hannah and Christopher 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.520 and Henry Junior, which is my brother, and Heath, which 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.400 is my other girl. I said, we was something else, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.880 especially around Fourth of July, because when four the July came, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.040 we wanted to try and have Roman candle fights and 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:56.119 everything else, so there'd be like big family celebrations on 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.600 these kind of days. Yeah, we're going to take a break. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:14.800 We'll be back in a moment. As they grow into teenagers, 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:17.800 like many girls, Talicia and Hannah May would do each 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.399 other's hair and makeup and have fun just driving around. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.320 Me and Hannah May like the long destination drives with 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.640 no idea where it was going. I'm just listening to music. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.560 What kind of music did she like? She was mainly 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.840 a country girl. Other than that she liked Brian Church 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.240 I think is his name. She did ay sity a 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.600 country girl. When she was in a jeep, she liked 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.440 to go out, and she liked to go money and 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:41.800 tell me about Dana. What kind of aunt was she? 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.240 She would take us all clothes, shopping for school and stuff. 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.720 When school time came around. Your kids are young, do 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:53.920 they know about your great aunt and what happened. I 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.600 actually have a book I made in memory of them. 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.920 It's like a photo album book. I figured why not 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.720 keep their memory alive with the children. When I was 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.200 pregnant with Cherokee, Hannah had actually done a like a 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.359 gender revealed with me. She done my pictures and then 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.760 right before I gave birth to Cherokee, she had also 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.240 done my maternity picture. Dana was one of the first 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.920 ones I told that I was pregnant with Cherokee. She 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.360 was so excited and she kept telling me, all you're 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:24.680 having a girl. I was like, hey day, and I 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.000 don't know yet. I had went into labor with Cherokee 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.200 on the eighth of March and then I didn't have 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:35.440 her until the nights, and Dana was there the whole time. 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.639 She pasted the floors and she was like, is she 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.639 ready to get hurt? And Hanname was there when Nana 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.440 first saw Cherokee. She started crying at first, and she 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.840 looked at me and she was like, she's so beautiful. 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.240 After we brought her home from the hospital, she would 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.159 always want Cherokee to come out and take naps with 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.600 her before she went to work, and she wanted to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.240 do pictures with Cherokee. I was born twenty fifteen, and 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.679 then Hannah was born, not even a month after they 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:09.800 were killed. When I went into labor with Hannah, I 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.880 looked at my mom and I said, I wish Auntina 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.280 was here, because you know, she was there for the 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.240 first baby, she would have wanted to be there for 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.000 the second. After I had delivered Hannah, I ended up 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:23.800 crying because I kept looking at her, and I've kept 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.920 telling Mama, was like, I want to be happy, but 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:27.879 I'm also kind of sad because you know, it's not 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.560 even been a month yet and we had lost family members. 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.520 How do you deal with that or reconcile with wanting 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.440 to remember but also wanting to live your life. When 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:41.680 I'm with the girls, I try to teach them stuff 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.960 that like Aunt Dana would have taught them as well. 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.320 Terry Key. She knows that if we go to the cemetery, 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.880 Aunt Dana's there and she'll ask, can we go see 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.400 Aunt Dana? Mommy and I will take her to see 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.640 the grave. We took her just a couple of weeks ago. 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.280 How do you think that the manly wrote in Jelly 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.240 families will be different now that all this has happened. 0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:06.280 When it first happened, like we was all really close 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.200 with each other, and after the year started going out, 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.080 the only other time we gather is like when we 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.200 want to do like a release or a candle fighting 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:20.320 for another year of them being dead. Jeff as Talicia 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.280 if there was anything she could learn from this terrible tragedy, 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.960 and she was reminded of advice that her cousin Hannah 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.960 Ma gave her. I don't go by words. I watched 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.439 their actions. Hannah would teach me where she was murdered. 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.040 She would tell me you can't trust their words because 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.960 their words can always be broken. She's like, trust their actions. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.600 What do you try to take away from Dana? As 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.720 you're a mom now she would take in the kids 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.600 that wasn't even hers. So everybody tells me that I'm 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.160 just like Aunt Dana Cherokee. She's she's usually a very 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.959 playful girl. She's like running around playing there was one day, 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.399 but was all sitting outside at night. We was around 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.640 a campfire, and she looked at us and she said, MoMA, 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.280 I missed Dana and I wish she was here. So 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.840 I liked that Cherokee and I pointed up at the stories. 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.720 I said, did you see that bright story there, the 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.440 brightest one in the sky. She said yeah, I said, 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:16.920 that's Dana watching over you. Well, clearly the Rodents enjoy 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.000 a strong sense of family. There are some dark things 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.560 that have happened to generations of the Rodents that can't 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:27.560 be ignored. I wonder about you. Hear the term generational trauma. 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.399 What is your take on generational trauma and how it 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.680 affects your family. The saddest part of this is that 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.160 only in the later years have we begun to even 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:42.399 to realize generational trauma. For people of that generation, it 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:48.639 was never considered trauma. It was just considered life. I 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.040 know that's a sad thing to say, but it was 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:56.320 just considered being able to live through, to fight through. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.000 In these days, we really do understand so much better. 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.320 But I have to believe that in those days, what 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:07.280 it really meant was as sad as it is to say, 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:10.600 I think that type of trauma, giving from that generational 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:15.119 one really makes people stronger in a way. The survival 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:20.760 instinct is just within this family. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.480 Generational trauma is trauma that isn't just experienced by one person, 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.800 but extends from one generation to the next. And now 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:31.960 everyone is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:35.320 populations that are more vulnerable due to their histories, and 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.960 two of those buckets are poverty and violence, which based 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.600 on what we've been told about the Rodent family history, 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:45.200 it seems that they would be susceptible to this type 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.040 of trauma. Based on our further research, dealing with generational 0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.440 trauma is best dealt with through counseling. I recently spoke 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.040 to a psychiatrist who said that the Rodents were really 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:58.280 emblematic of generational trauma and they shared a very famous 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:03.000 example of what that could and there was experiment conducted 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:07.320 by scientists on mice and a lab and the scientists 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:11.840 would basically spray perfume near mice and then shock the mice, 0:24:12.400 --> 0:24:14.520 and they would repeat that on a regular basis. They 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.280 would spray their perfume, shock the mice, spray their perfume, 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.640 shock the mice, and then sure enough, eventually, even without 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:25.200 shocking them, they would just spray the perfume and the 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.880 mouse would physically respond as though it had been shocked. 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:34.159 Perhaps even more interestingly, those mice eventually had babies of 0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:38.200 their own, and guess what when the scientists sprayed those 0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:41.800 mice with the perfume, they too would physically react like 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.040 they were being shocked, even though they weren't. This would 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:48.359 be an example of how trauma and sorrow can literally 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.919 be passed down generationally on a cellular level, as if 0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:58.520 it becomes part of our DNA. Let's stop here for 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:09.120 another break. Here again our anonymous Rodent family member talking 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:13.920 about Chris Senior's mother, Geneva. They will come through when 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.000 this is long gone and we're remembering back, and they 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.320 will come out on the other side with their chins up. 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:22.760 No matter what happens, no matter who's locked up for what, 0:25:23.160 --> 0:25:25.520 no matter who goes to prison, Geneva will walk with 0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:27.960 her head up, and she will still be smiling. She 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.720