1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: You live to try to defend your family, or you'd 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: live to try to defend people if you can. It's 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: not something I could put my finger on, but it's 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: just inside of us. I would wait into a hill 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 1: of bullets for somebody in my family to this day, 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: and I don't know why, but it would, and everybody 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: in my family would did the same. We just would. 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: This is the Piked and Massacre returned to Pike County 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: season three, episode eight, Manner of Life. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. So far the season, we've heard a lot 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: about recent court proceedings between the Wagoners and the prosecution 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: that will shape upcoming trials. They've covered everything from where 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: the trials will be held, what evidence will be allowed 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: into testimony, and who might be charged with what. All 16 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: of this leads to what we hope will be some 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: small form of justice for the Roden, Gillie and Manly 18 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: families who lost the unthinkable. When the Maskaker initially happened 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: six years ago, a lot of the remaining family members 20 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: spoke publicly. Not so in recent years, however, we've made 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: contact with some people who want to share their memories 22 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: of their family. Here's Jeff speaking with a Roden family 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: member who reached out to us. They've asked us not 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: to use their name. I'm curious how you found us 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: and what made you contact us. Now, I drive a 26 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: lot on the road, and I listened to podcasts everywhere. 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: I happened upon the pike in Masker, which you know, 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: is part of my extended family. So I wanted to 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: listen to it, and I was really impressed with the 30 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: respect that was given to the family, and so a 31 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: friend of mine and myself we eagerly wait every week 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: to hear it, and so I just commented on it, 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, thanking you all for being respectful to the family. 34 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: What is that experience like losing loved ones but then 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: losing it in a way where other people are kind 36 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: of a part of your experience. It'd be a strange 37 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: thing to divine for you, because we would see each 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,679 Speaker 1: other a few times a year at family unions and 39 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: what have you. So it was a giant shop. Man. 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but it wasn't as hurting 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 1: to me as I know it was to a lot 42 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: of the very close family members, and it's hard to 43 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: describe a law such a loss of a large chunk 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: of a family. When you first heard the podcast, what 45 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: was your thought? Kind of got interested in yours because 46 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: you all would give the facts as they were, and 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: then you would talk about the possibilities of how that 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: would make people feel. So that was very interesting to me. 49 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: These are not just people who were removed from this earth. 50 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: They were people. They were real people. You actually going 51 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: after trying to bring real life people to this is 52 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: pretty exciting to me. I mean, not making them as 53 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,559 Speaker 1: victims alone. You're making them as people and that's appreciated. 54 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 1: Jeff asked what growing up as a member of the 55 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: Roden family was like he first spoke about Geneva Roden 56 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: as a reminder, Geneva is Chris Roden seniors and Kenneth's mother, 57 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: Frankie Hannah and little Chris's grandmother. Growing up, especially in 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: my younger years, we would go visit Geneva and her family, 59 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: and the things I remember the most when you met Geneva, 60 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: you were guaranteed a smile and always a hug, and 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: whatever they had, whether it be a watermelon or a 62 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: piece of cake or whatever it was was shared with you. 63 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: When you got there, you just became one of the kids. 64 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: Geneva just was always the sweetest thing ever was and 65 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: would just hug you to death. About three times a year, 66 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: our family would get together and we would just pile 67 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: in a car and we would ride and see relatives, 68 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: and Geneva lived close to other relatives, so we would 69 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: just kind of make a big round trip in two 70 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: Ohio and then back into Kentucky. We would spend two 71 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: or three days up there, just following up wherever we could. 72 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: And our family was that way. If you went to 73 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 1: their house, they just made room for you. It didn't matter. 74 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: You just had a great time and you go swimming 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: and you do this and that. We didn't have Facebook 76 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: or things like that in those days. It sounds like 77 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: you like a nice way to grow up. It was, 78 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: it really was. Immediately after the murders, Geneva spoke publicly 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: about the unimaginable loss she was facing. On April twenty second, 80 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, in one single night, she lost her son's 81 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior and Kenneth Roden, her grandchildren Frankie, Hannah 82 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: May and Little Chris Roden and her nephew Gary. Her 83 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 1: words were a stark juxtaposition to the idyllic life her 84 00:04:53,839 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: family once lived. Love decided. I'm the mother Christopher Senior 85 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: and the mother of Kenneth, and from my mother's heart 86 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: had I hurt so bad inside from the day that 87 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: I flmed out. If there's someone out there that knows 88 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: anything about what happened with the pleased pleased coming forward, 89 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: there has to be so one. It was all but 90 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: looks like the world had ended when I found out 91 00:05:53,440 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: about the family that they took out my grandchildren, X 92 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: daughter at all, my nephew and my grandson, my girlfriend. 93 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: There was eight members that they took that day, and 94 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: the hurt them blue way from a mother, I think 95 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: about a day night, I lose a lot of sleep 96 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: board and still what try to go on the rest 97 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: of my children is going to so much listen to 98 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: brothers the same day. I would have never dreamed that's 99 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: something that is would happen. Here are Stephanie and Jeff 100 00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: speaking about Geneva Rodin. Geneva Rodin is nearly eighty years old, 101 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: and it's impossible to imagine what she deals with every day. 102 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: Not only the court proceedings, but also being there for 103 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: her family because there's still many other family members who 104 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: rely on her and lean on her as the Rodan matriarch. 105 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: Several years ago, when we were first making the documentary 106 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: for Oxygen about the Rodent murders, Jeff and I actually 107 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: went to the nursing home that Geneva resided at. At 108 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: the time, we actually thought she was a distant cousin 109 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: to the Rodents, and we didn't realize until we got 110 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: there that she was actually Chris Senior's mother and that 111 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: she had lost her children and her grandchildren, And ultimately 112 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: she was uncomfortable speaking on camera, which we of course 113 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: completely understood. It was all just way too raw for 114 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: her and her level of grief was frankly unimaginable. Geneva 115 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: is really an example of a person who's frankly inspiring. 116 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: You know, We've said this many times since then. When 117 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: you meet another human being who has experienced such deep 118 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: pain and she can continue to push on and continue 119 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: to be there for her loved ones and show up 120 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: to court relentlessly and push through, then surely the rest 121 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: of us can push through whatever stressing us in our lives. 122 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: And she's really offered us a lot of perspective. I 123 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: share this really simply to say the level of grief 124 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: that this family has experienced is incredibly far reaching. Geneva 125 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: Rodan and other members for her family, I would imagine 126 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: the catalysts for them wanting to speak out is to 127 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: bring attention to their family's case and not just how 128 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: to be about the accused Wagner family, and really remind 129 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: everyone that the victims, the Rodents in this case, were 130 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: real human beings who were not just what happened to 131 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: them in twenty sixteen. It's so true. And also, you know, 132 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: oftentimes when we talk about crime, the victims just become 133 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: a footnote. It's always about the manner of death and 134 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: less about the manner of life. And this is another 135 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: example that you know, Geneva is a living and breathing 136 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: woman who has had her entire family wiped out, and 137 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: whoever is responsible for that should pay. Jeff continued his 138 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: conversation with the Rodent family member. Where Chris Senior and 139 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: Gary and Kenneth were they around? Did you see them? 140 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: They were about probably eight or nine, maybe teen years younger. Man. 141 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: I remember Chris Junior and Kenneth and them they were 142 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: wandering around just doing what kids do. They played with us. 143 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: Kids have always just played together. We really didn't keep 144 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: in contact after you know, outside of family unions. Every 145 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: life kept getting in a way for everyone. And that's 146 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: just a sad fact of the way it was. They 147 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: were just beating their way through this world, just like 148 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: everyone else. To believe, that's why this thing was more 149 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: shocking than one would think. It became clear that there 150 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: were obvious parallels between Chris Roden Senior's upbringing and how he, 151 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: alongside his wife Dana, raised his own family. They were 152 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: just people, They were just good old Americans. She was 153 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: the daughter of a man named Tip who lost his 154 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: life in a little place called Jonesborough, Ohio. He was logging. 155 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: An attractor come back on him and killed him. And 156 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: then not too long after that, she lost her mother. 157 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: That left Geneva with raising her own siblings. After losing 158 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: her mother and father, she got married and they had children, 159 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: And this happened at the same time, and that she 160 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: had this entire group of people, her siblings and her 161 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: own children that she was raising. So that takes an 162 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: immense amount of strength to do, giving the way the 163 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: world is in Geneva didn't have a whole lot to 164 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: get through this world, but she made it. She was 165 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: and she raised them, and she raised fine people. Geneva's 166 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: father was one of eight or ten brothers who grew 167 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: up down in Kentucky. They lived in poverty, but it's 168 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: not a poverty that most people would understand. During the wintertime, 169 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: they didn't have shoes. They didn't even have leather to 170 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: put on their feet. They would rap rags or whatever 171 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: they could find around their feet just to get to school. 172 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: They went to school in a one room schoolhouse on 173 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: a little place called Grassy Creek. There was no way 174 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 1: to make a living for their father, James. That survival 175 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: instinct was passed down through through Geneva in most of 176 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: the family, and her dad was an amazing man, even 177 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: long before there were mechanics. He would find old cars 178 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: or tractors and make them run, and then he would 179 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: trade them for stuff that didn't run. Now, in that 180 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: trade he would get a little extra money which would 181 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: go to his family and they might be able to 182 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: buy a little something, a little bit of food. I've 183 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: heard with the Roden's being super resourceful with cars and 184 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: good with your hands, I've heard that about Chris Senior 185 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: being fiercely protective of one another and going to bath 186 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: for each other. It's the same stuff, and it's a 187 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: little easier for me then it would be for you, 188 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: of course, because I know the family. But that is 189 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: very interesting that you can draw a line from the 190 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds to her children and see similarities, like 191 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: Chris Junior would just jump under the hood of a 192 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: car and be able to fix it. I can see 193 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: those similarities and being able to defend each other. I 194 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: can see that going all the way back to that 195 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: side of the family. I just want to clarify by 196 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: Chris Junior, you mean Chris Roden sor yes, he's Chris 197 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: Junior to you, because there's another Chris. Yes. Jeff also 198 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: recently had a phone conversation with Talicia, Dana and Chris 199 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: Senior's niece and Hannah, Frankie and little Chris cousin. Well 200 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: gone more than six years now, the Rodents are present 201 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: with Talicia and live on with her young daughters. As 202 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: someone who has been working on this story for many years, 203 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: I feel very touched by it, and I'm sure you 204 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: know obviously being related to everyone, it means a lot 205 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: to share her about and talk about it. Can you 206 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: hear me? Okay, yeah, I can hear you. I was 207 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: checking to see where the kids work. How many kids 208 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: do you have? I have foo? You have your hands fall? Yes, 209 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: they're all girls. I actually have one named after aunt Dana, 210 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: and her name is Hannah Lynne. We gave her Hannah 211 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: after the two Hannah's and Lynne after Dana. That's beautiful. 212 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: So Dana was your great aunt and she was able 213 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: to meet your eldest daughter, Cherokee before everything happened. Dana 214 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: was my aunt. She was Cherokee's great aunt. So who 215 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: are your parents? My mother was Dana's sister, Kathie. She 216 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: has two sisters and a brother. Her brother's name is 217 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: James Manley. And then my other aunt Bobby Joe. As 218 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: a reminder, Talicia's aunt, Bobby Joe Manley is the one 219 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: who discovered the horrific crime scene and called nine one 220 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: one nine one yes, if yes, forty over? I need 221 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: who walked to the no ball? Okay, my brother halls dead? Okay, 222 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: what girl Davey has sat here? Forty seventy seventy forty 223 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: seventy seven, forty seventy seven. Okay fort zero seven seven 224 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: email correct, yes for you see man on yes, all 225 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: over the house. Okay, my brother Haws who says very look, 226 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: I'll beat the hell. Okay, we're gonna blood all hearts 227 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: the man. Can you coming the county? That's dad is down. 228 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: It's my county. H Okay, okay, I need to get 229 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: out of the house. They can drive over there. That's 230 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: a head running Christler and seen Garry Rod and Sank 231 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: and Gary Rod and start things ahead. Looks like the 232 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: dad take your vad. I think the great dads. I 233 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: don't speaker pop out of them. Okay. If there anybody 234 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: else in the house, I know. Okay, the door was lost, 235 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: be good here, but on her friend team was and 236 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: I went in and hit her, landing on the floor 237 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: and went on house and I'm starting now. Okay, stay 238 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: out of the house the way anybody got her there? Okay, yeah, 239 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: all right, we don't get it. He's on my right. Okay, 240 00:15:52,960 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: I thank you your mother. The trauma of that discovery 241 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: is long lasting. I used to hang out a lot 242 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: with Bobby Joe that like after everything happened, she just 243 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: like completely changed. Here again is Jeff as a reminder, 244 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Manly is Dana Roden's sister, and she discovered 245 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: the horrific crime scene at Chris Senior Roden and Frankie 246 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: Roden's house, and to just kind of put yourself in 247 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: her shoes, she found out that her loved ones were 248 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: heinously murdered, not by word of mouth, but actually by 249 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: discovering their bloody bodies. And an experience like that it 250 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: changes you forever, how could it not. And we did 251 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: a little research into severe trauma like the kind Bobby 252 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: Joe experienced, and only around seven percent of Americans report 253 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: experiencing an event like this. And obviously, even I would 254 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: say what Bobby Joe went through is probably worse than 255 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: what a lot of those seven percent report. It's just unimaginable, 256 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: and I don't think anyone could ever understand what she's 257 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: dealt with. Here's steph again speaking with Telicia. To me 258 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: and Hannah were only like six months and four two 259 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: days apart. Wow, I just turned twenty four. I actually 260 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: have a picture of us on our baby and my 261 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,239 Speaker 1: baby book in the Very Bad She was a year 262 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: and a half in this picture and I was five months. 263 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: So you guys grew up together. The leat your rope 264 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: togeverybody was pretty close her and my little brother was 265 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: close to him, and Christopher wasn't very far apart either. 266 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: Everybody used to ask me what I thought of Frankiella 267 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: was like, listen, me and Frankie and Hannah and Christopher 268 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: and Henry Junior, which is my brother, and Heath, which 269 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: is my other girl. I said, we was something else, 270 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: especially around Fourth of July, because when four the July came, 271 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: we wanted to try and have Roman candle fights and 272 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: everything else, so there'd be like big family celebrations on 273 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: these kind of days. Yeah, we're going to take a break. 274 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. As they grow into teenagers, 275 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: like many girls, Talicia and Hannah May would do each 276 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: other's hair and makeup and have fun just driving around. 277 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: Me and Hannah May like the long destination drives with 278 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: no idea where it was going. I'm just listening to music. 279 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: What kind of music did she like? She was mainly 280 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: a country girl. Other than that she liked Brian Church 281 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: I think is his name. She did ay sity a 282 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: country girl. When she was in a jeep, she liked 283 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: to go out, and she liked to go money and 284 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: tell me about Dana. What kind of aunt was she? 285 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: She would take us all clothes, shopping for school and stuff. 286 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: When school time came around. Your kids are young, do 287 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: they know about your great aunt and what happened. I 288 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: actually have a book I made in memory of them. 289 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: It's like a photo album book. I figured why not 290 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: keep their memory alive with the children. When I was 291 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: pregnant with Cherokee, Hannah had actually done a like a 292 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: gender revealed with me. She done my pictures and then 293 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: right before I gave birth to Cherokee, she had also 294 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: done my maternity picture. Dana was one of the first 295 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: ones I told that I was pregnant with Cherokee. She 296 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: was so excited and she kept telling me, all you're 297 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: having a girl. I was like, hey day, and I 298 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: don't know yet. I had went into labor with Cherokee 299 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: on the eighth of March and then I didn't have 300 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: her until the nights, and Dana was there the whole time. 301 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: She pasted the floors and she was like, is she 302 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: ready to get hurt? And Hanname was there when Nana 303 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: first saw Cherokee. She started crying at first, and she 304 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: looked at me and she was like, she's so beautiful. 305 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: After we brought her home from the hospital, she would 306 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: always want Cherokee to come out and take naps with 307 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: her before she went to work, and she wanted to 308 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: do pictures with Cherokee. I was born twenty fifteen, and 309 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: then Hannah was born, not even a month after they 310 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: were killed. When I went into labor with Hannah, I 311 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: looked at my mom and I said, I wish Auntina 312 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: was here, because you know, she was there for the 313 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: first baby, she would have wanted to be there for 314 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: the second. After I had delivered Hannah, I ended up 315 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: crying because I kept looking at her, and I've kept 316 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: telling Mama, was like, I want to be happy, but 317 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: I'm also kind of sad because you know, it's not 318 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: even been a month yet and we had lost family members. 319 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: How do you deal with that or reconcile with wanting 320 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: to remember but also wanting to live your life. When 321 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: I'm with the girls, I try to teach them stuff 322 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: that like Aunt Dana would have taught them as well. 323 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: Terry Key. She knows that if we go to the cemetery, 324 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: Aunt Dana's there and she'll ask, can we go see 325 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: Aunt Dana? Mommy and I will take her to see 326 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: the grave. We took her just a couple of weeks ago. 327 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: How do you think that the manly wrote in Jelly 328 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: families will be different now that all this has happened. 329 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: When it first happened, like we was all really close 330 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: with each other, and after the year started going out, 331 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: the only other time we gather is like when we 332 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: want to do like a release or a candle fighting 333 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: for another year of them being dead. Jeff as Talicia 334 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: if there was anything she could learn from this terrible tragedy, 335 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: and she was reminded of advice that her cousin Hannah 336 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 1: Ma gave her. I don't go by words. I watched 337 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: their actions. Hannah would teach me where she was murdered. 338 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: She would tell me you can't trust their words because 339 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: their words can always be broken. She's like, trust their actions. 340 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: What do you try to take away from Dana? As 341 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: you're a mom now she would take in the kids 342 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: that wasn't even hers. So everybody tells me that I'm 343 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: just like Aunt Dana Cherokee. She's she's usually a very 344 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 1: playful girl. She's like running around playing there was one day, 345 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: but was all sitting outside at night. We was around 346 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: a campfire, and she looked at us and she said, MoMA, 347 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: I missed Dana and I wish she was here. So 348 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I liked that Cherokee and I pointed up at the stories. 349 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: I said, did you see that bright story there, the 350 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: brightest one in the sky. She said yeah, I said, 351 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: that's Dana watching over you. Well, clearly the Rodents enjoy 352 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: a strong sense of family. There are some dark things 353 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: that have happened to generations of the Rodents that can't 354 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: be ignored. I wonder about you. Hear the term generational trauma. 355 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: What is your take on generational trauma and how it 356 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: affects your family. The saddest part of this is that 357 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: only in the later years have we begun to even 358 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: to realize generational trauma. For people of that generation, it 359 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: was never considered trauma. It was just considered life. I 360 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: know that's a sad thing to say, but it was 361 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: just considered being able to live through, to fight through. 362 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: In these days, we really do understand so much better. 363 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: But I have to believe that in those days, what 364 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: it really meant was as sad as it is to say, 365 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: I think that type of trauma, giving from that generational 366 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: one really makes people stronger in a way. The survival 367 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: instinct is just within this family. Here again, Stephanie and Jeff. 368 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: Generational trauma is trauma that isn't just experienced by one person, 369 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: but extends from one generation to the next. And now 370 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: everyone is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific 371 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: populations that are more vulnerable due to their histories, and 372 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: two of those buckets are poverty and violence, which based 373 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: on what we've been told about the Rodent family history, 374 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: it seems that they would be susceptible to this type 375 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: of trauma. Based on our further research, dealing with generational 376 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: trauma is best dealt with through counseling. I recently spoke 377 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: to a psychiatrist who said that the Rodents were really 378 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: emblematic of generational trauma and they shared a very famous 379 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: example of what that could and there was experiment conducted 380 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: by scientists on mice and a lab and the scientists 381 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: would basically spray perfume near mice and then shock the mice, 382 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: and they would repeat that on a regular basis. They 383 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: would spray their perfume, shock the mice, spray their perfume, 384 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: shock the mice, and then sure enough, eventually, even without 385 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: shocking them, they would just spray the perfume and the 386 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: mouse would physically respond as though it had been shocked. 387 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: Perhaps even more interestingly, those mice eventually had babies of 388 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: their own, and guess what when the scientists sprayed those 389 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: mice with the perfume, they too would physically react like 390 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: they were being shocked, even though they weren't. This would 391 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: be an example of how trauma and sorrow can literally 392 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: be passed down generationally on a cellular level, as if 393 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: it becomes part of our DNA. Let's stop here for 394 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: another break. Here again our anonymous Rodent family member talking 395 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: about Chris Senior's mother, Geneva. They will come through when 396 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: this is long gone and we're remembering back, and they 397 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: will come out on the other side with their chins up. 398 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: No matter what happens, no matter who's locked up for what, 399 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: no matter who goes to prison, Geneva will walk with 400 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: her head up, and she will still be smiling. She 401 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: will smile. And I can only imagine the pain and 402 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: the tolls took on her, you know, with what happened. 403 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: But she will survive. That's just in her bloodline. She 404 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: will come through this. I don't think there's anything that 405 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: any of us could learn from this. It's just an awful, 406 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: terrible thing. How would you want your family to be remembered? 407 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: What's the legacy you being remembered a certain way probably 408 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: isn't as high on the list for my family or 409 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: my cousin. We would just like to know that we 410 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: did the best we could while we were here, and 411 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: if that means some type of legacy was left, then fantastic. 412 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: But if it doesn't, it still doesn't matter. We carved 413 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: our place out of this world. We know within ourselves 414 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: that you know, we are survivors and for lack of 415 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: a better term, we are fighters. You know, we will 416 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: fight for what we believe, and that is in family. 417 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: In current times, the only thing, and this is sad 418 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: to say that the world even knows the name wrote 419 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: and would be because of a terrible tragedy. I can 420 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: say absolutely that we don't want to know him for 421 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: just then, have you been following the court cases or 422 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: the legal proceedings, and if so, what's your take on 423 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: the My take on it is that this family was 424 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: just a strange and terrible, small cult like family. This 425 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: is just me, my own personal opinion, and no matter what, 426 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: I feel like they were guided by one in the family. 427 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: Now I'm not saying this person made them do it. 428 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying they were guided by that person then would 429 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: do absolutely anything for this person, and somehow it went 430 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: from not killing people to killing people. And I don't 431 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: know what happened during that. I know that during the 432 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: plea when two of them played out, one claiming that 433 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: he didn't shoot anyone and the other one I'm not 434 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: even sure what he's claiming. It's going to be pretty 435 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: interesting of what happens there. But I just believe it 436 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: was a small cult family that just got ideas flowing 437 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: in the kitchen with baskets on the wall, and these 438 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: ideas just kept going and going and going until there 439 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: was no turning back. Do you think Angela Wagner was 440 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of the one at the humble all us. I 441 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 1: feel like that, and I could absolutely be wrong, but 442 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: I feel like she was that type that she would 443 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: be the one to just kind of corner them in 444 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: and you know, here's what we're doing, guys, and this 445 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: is what we need to do. Guys, and then you know, 446 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: and that comes from what I've read and just the 447 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: evidence that I've seen. I'm sure that there's mountains of 448 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: evidence that I haven't seen or heard from it, as 449 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: I shouldn't because that's you know, that should be in court. 450 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: But that's where I am right now with it, which 451 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 1: it could change the next day. But I feel like 452 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: that she kind of kept the strong arm on these 453 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: boys for all these years, and it became so normal 454 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: to them that if mom says X, then X it 455 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: is right. That does seem to be what we're caring. 456 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: And do you feel a justice is going to be served? 457 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as justice in this situation? 458 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: I am a great believer in justice, I really am. 459 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: I absolutely feel that justice will be served, and I 460 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: believe wholeheartedly in our justice system. I'm not hoping for 461 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: anything one way or the other. I'm not hoping for 462 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: this sentence or that sentence. I have faith in our 463 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: justice system, and I believe in the end the powers 464 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: to be we'll see that justice is done. And this 465 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: was a family and they had every right to walk 466 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: on this earth with the rest of us, and someone 467 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: took that from them. And everyone needs to know that 468 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: these people lived, and these people had lives, and they 469 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: loved and they worked, and they are so much more 470 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: than what we're going to see and the years to come, 471 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: and it can't be helped. I know that the trial 472 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: and the people on trial would be in the limelight, 473 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: and that just is as it has to be. But 474 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: it is very important to me that the world knows 475 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: that they were alive, and they were living, and they 476 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: were loved, and they hadn't children. I just don't want 477 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: it forgotten that these were people. More on that next time. 478 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying The Pikes and Massacre, listen to our 479 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: other hit series, Crazy and Love. New episodes there every 480 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and 481 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 482 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: The Pikes and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 483 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: Chris Greaves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 484 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by 485 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of 486 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 487 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 488 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.