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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, and we're back with America's greatest mind reader.

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Speaker 1: Joe Diamond is with us. Joe, I'll let you finish

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Speaker 1: up your thoughts on the difference between the paranormal and

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Speaker 1: the magic, the fight between Urie Geller and James Randy

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Speaker 1: And you're right. Geller had told us that the skeptics

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Speaker 1: made his career absolutely, absolutely and like the other aspect

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Speaker 1: of it too, is so much of I mean again,

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Speaker 1: what those what those men in Eurie's cases, He's still

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Speaker 1: with us, you know, still uh, you know. Symbolize is

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Speaker 1: you know, on both sides, is how much someone can

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Speaker 1: accomplish when they set their mind to it. I mean uh.

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Speaker 1: And they both had a very clear vision of themselves.

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Speaker 1: They both had a very clear vision of what they believed,

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Speaker 1: and they you know, communicated it and you and though

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Speaker 1: they were at odds with each other, they were very

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Speaker 1: much cut from the same class. Absolutely. Let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your Ouiji board experience. What happened there?

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Speaker 1: Oh so, yeah, So I did a college college paper

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Speaker 1: on the Ouiji board, which started off as just the

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Speaker 1: science behind it, which we'll get to in a moment.

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Speaker 1: But I ended up having so much information I was

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Speaker 1: able to use it for one of my business classes

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Speaker 1: as well. Because America's first patent battle was actually over

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Speaker 1: the Ouiji board. It exists almost entirely because of the

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Speaker 1: US patent system, And originally it was a it was

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Speaker 1: a planchett had a piece of lead in it for

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Speaker 1: automatic writing, and someone else had had a patent for that,

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Speaker 1: and then Elijah Bond and William Fold had a patent

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Speaker 1: for the planchette and the board, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: think they want to chord over it. And I find

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Speaker 1: it hilarious because you know the you know, people see

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Speaker 1: just you know, the alphabet on a board and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the evil thing one in reality that the oracle

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Speaker 1: is just the plan set. I mean, I do a

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Speaker 1: show where I take a Wuiji board out at the

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Speaker 1: very end. It's been on display in my studio at

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Speaker 1: the Dole Mansion, and at the end of my show Mystic,

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Speaker 1: I use it to read someone's mind. I say, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to use it to communicate with a spirit.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to use it to communicate with you.

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Speaker 1: I blindfold myself. They put their hands on my shoulders

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Speaker 1: and the board spells out of the dead celebrity that

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Speaker 1: they're thinking of. And that's a combination of intuition. Anyone

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Speaker 1: who who's looked at anything like contact mind reading hellstrmism,

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Speaker 1: looked at a previous you know mentalists and mind readers

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Speaker 1: in the past, know that, you know, contact mind reading

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Speaker 1: is a genuine technique. It is a skill. Intuition definitely

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Speaker 1: helps with it and everything. Uh that it's not a trick,

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Speaker 1: but there is a trick a knack to it, definitely.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, back to back to the board itself. Uh, whatever,

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Speaker 1: I pick it up off the off the shelf, you know,

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Speaker 1: I pick up the plan set. No one reacts until

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Speaker 1: I pick up the board, and the board is just

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Speaker 1: you know, the alphabet, the true oracle is just the

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Speaker 1: the plan set, the indicator. Um. I think that's because

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Speaker 1: of the movie The Exorcist, because that you know, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until that movie happened that people really started you know,

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Speaker 1: associating the board with you know, demons and that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. It was on the It was a Norman

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Speaker 1: Rackwell painting. It was you know, a slurty couple with

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Speaker 1: the board on their knees between them, and uh, it's

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Speaker 1: still the best selling board game of all time. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's unparalleled with every you know, clewe all

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Speaker 1: of it outsoes every board game sales, did you mind

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Speaker 1: the sales of every board game, Wager would still win,

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Speaker 1: you know, by a mile. So there's a big aspect

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Speaker 1: of that. So when even better than Monopoly, right, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely definitely definitely well. And then on top of it,

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Speaker 1: you look at all the you know, merchandising, and next time,

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Speaker 1: next time Halloween rolls around, go into the local you know,

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Speaker 1: spirit Halloween stores. You'll know if they have Wigi branded

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Speaker 1: materials there, you know, everything from coffee cups to baking goods,

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Speaker 1: you know, how to make Wigi board cookies or floor

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Speaker 1: mats or whatever. And ask them. They'll say that sells

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Speaker 1: out before everything else. That's the stuff they have to

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Speaker 1: stock the most, more than even like the Nightmare before

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Speaker 1: Christmas merchandising, which is pretty amazing. But when I went

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Speaker 1: to Modern Rogue World headquarters, which as I mentioned, is

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Speaker 1: on you know, in Austin, Texas, and we made a

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Speaker 1: video and it's on YouTube. If you type in my

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Speaker 1: you know, my name, Joe Diamond Wigia that the video

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Speaker 1: will will show up. But we basically, uh flack, we're

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Speaker 1: better term debunked it. There's still now. I want to

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Speaker 1: be very clear about this too. I don't think ah

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Speaker 1: for me, debunking doesn't take any of the mystery out

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Speaker 1: of anything. It also doesn't mean I think I know

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Speaker 1: everything about it. I've still and we'll get into them

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Speaker 1: in a moment. I've still been surprised by the board.

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Speaker 1: I've still had things happen to me that I can't explain.

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Speaker 1: That said, for most of the stories I hear, and

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Speaker 1: most of the phenomenon you see people talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: can't be them moving it. But of course you know

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Speaker 1: there's energies. There's an idiomotor response, just like a pendulum

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Speaker 1: and the way we But if you believe Joe that

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Speaker 1: it's a portal for the other side, will it will

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Speaker 1: it work that way? I think it's it's like good,

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Speaker 1: you know, without getting too h without getting too political

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Speaker 1: or controversial here, but like, oh, go ahead. A gun

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Speaker 1: or a gun or a weapon can be used in

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Speaker 1: a bad way. It can be used in a good way.

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Speaker 1: It can be used to protect yourself. It can be

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Speaker 1: used to use your family. It can be used to

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Speaker 1: you know, do a lot of good. It can also

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Speaker 1: be used to do a lot of bad. Like like

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Speaker 1: it's just about anything. Um, I hit my belief and

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Speaker 1: from where I'm at right now with all the tests

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Speaker 1: we did, and again in the video, it shows that

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Speaker 1: it is coming from the people. It's not an outside force.

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Speaker 1: That's like, you know, like the image we have, like

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Speaker 1: our fingers are just on it and then a ghost

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Speaker 1: is reaching over and moving it. No, it's it's coming

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Speaker 1: from us. Now, whether you believe that's our you know,

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Speaker 1: our energy, our unconscious body movements. Either way, it's still amazing.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, it shows how amazing and incredible you know,

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Speaker 1: we are as human beings. I am of the belief

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Speaker 1: that you know, it's only gonna it's only going to

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Speaker 1: bring evil to an evil doer. So if you're if

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Speaker 1: you're a good person, you got nothing to worry about

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Speaker 1: you when you use a board. Same way, if you're

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Speaker 1: a good person, you have nothing to worry about when

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Speaker 1: you use a weapon of any kind. John Zappas is

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Speaker 1: an expert in haunted objects. Have you ever come across

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Speaker 1: anything like that? Oh? Definitely, Oh all the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean houses are basically haunted objects I've gotten. So

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Speaker 1: I have an item that's a doll and her name

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Speaker 1: is Flora. Now I'm going to be very explicit about this.

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Speaker 1: She was made by an artist. However, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: cheapy stuff hasn't happened with her. Let me explain. So

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Speaker 1: the Dull Mansion where I do my shows out of,

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Speaker 1: is an arts park. There's painters, musicians, there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of psychics. Now a good friend, Lauren, does a wonderful

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Speaker 1: medium work and psychic work out of there as well.

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Speaker 1: There's a massage therapist. There's lots of artists there, and

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Speaker 1: they have different arts events every every month. And in

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Speaker 1: October one year, they had an artist who brought in

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Speaker 1: over a hundred refurbished antique dolls and made them into

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Speaker 1: like little creepy dolls, and they were all over the house,

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Speaker 1: and there was this one doll that just kind of

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Speaker 1: called to me when they all came with names. And

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Speaker 1: the dollars are creepy too. Oh yeah, yeah, the dollars

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Speaker 1: are creepy, creepy on purpose. And uh, you know, the

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Speaker 1: dollar called me was Flora, and I bought her on

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Speaker 1: the spot. Um. I bought her on the spot and

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Speaker 1: I went home. It was around October and I went

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Speaker 1: home and I showed the photo to my to my wife.

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Speaker 1: We were we were just engaged at the time, we

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Speaker 1: weren't married, and she was like, Oh, she's cute, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I left her on display at the mansion because it

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Speaker 1: was for this art show, and I wanted to leave

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Speaker 1: her on display throughout the art events. But I bought

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Speaker 1: her and she claimed her it was mine. So my

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Speaker 1: wife and I decide to watch a horror movie that

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Speaker 1: night since it was close to Halloween, and I gave

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Speaker 1: my wife a couple options and she picked the movie

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Speaker 1: The Innocence, which is based on The Turning of the Screw,

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Speaker 1: which the Netflix series The Haunting of Why Manner was

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Speaker 1: based on. And the name of the little girl in

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Speaker 1: that movie is Flora. You can talk it up to

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Speaker 1: a coincidence. I mean, it was the creepy time of year, right,

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Speaker 1: you know all that stuff. But here's the uncanny part.

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Speaker 1: My wife goes to bed and I have all the

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Speaker 1: original you know, horror Universal movies on DVD. You know

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Speaker 1: Dracula the Wolf, You've got the whole right, Yeah, yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I don't think I need to point

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Speaker 1: this out to you or any of your listeners, but

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Speaker 1: they're all similar in length. They're all about seventy minutes.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna pick one at random.

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Speaker 1: So I closed my eyes, mixed them up, and I

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Speaker 1: pick one at random. Turns out it was Invisible Man.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you remember this, George, but

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Speaker 1: the name of the love interest in that movie is

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Speaker 1: Flora Laura. So synchronicities, I say, I don't believe in coincidences, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I think things happen for a reason. Oh, absolutely absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think I mean, well, and this comes back

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Speaker 1: to what you were saying. Most you know, hauntings or

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Speaker 1: haunted objects, the things that happen around them. Many people

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Speaker 1: can brush it off as just a coincidence, and I

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Speaker 1: try to point out that that's more disturbing. The idea

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Speaker 1: that no one or nothing is pulling the strings to

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Speaker 1: make this happen is ultimately more mysterious. So whether or

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Speaker 1: not do I think, like you know, a spirit is

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Speaker 1: trapped in the doll that is Flora? No, But do

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Speaker 1: I believe that you know an interesting string of synchronicities

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Speaker 1: has happened through her because of the house I met

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Speaker 1: quote unquote met her in Absolutely. I can't tell you

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Speaker 1: how many times people run into each other at events

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Speaker 1: there who haven't seen each other in years. There are

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Speaker 1: endless endless synchronicity is what some would call coincidences that

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Speaker 1: happen in uh in a place like that, I have,

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Speaker 1: you know, and people have given me, you know, items

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Speaker 1: over the years. I was shipped Wuiji boards for a

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Speaker 1: couple of years. People just didn't want them in their homes,

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Speaker 1: and they found me online and they decided, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is the guy I need to give them. Give the

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Speaker 1: Bligi board Tom. You know. So, I do believe that

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Speaker 1: you know, objects we you know, consider haunted or curse

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Speaker 1: they have that power or lucky, you know, like in

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Speaker 1: the case of my grandfather's pocket knife that I'll be

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Speaker 1: using on the stage. I believe that they're only powerful

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Speaker 1: if we give them power. And just like before, you

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Speaker 1: can use that for good or you can use it negatively.

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Speaker 1: I think you can, you know, absolutely use it negatively

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Speaker 1: or negatively, and you can use it positively. I work

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Speaker 1: very hard to make sure everything I use in those

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Speaker 1: situations are are for positive psychometry is ESP? Explain how

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Speaker 1: it works? What do you think the form of ESP?

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Speaker 1: It literally means soul measuring, psycho you know the mind

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Speaker 1: or soul and metry you know metrics, you know measuring.

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Speaker 1: It's the idea and it kind of ties into what

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Speaker 1: you were talking about before. The idea that objects would

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Speaker 1: carry with us, can absorb a part of our personalities

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Speaker 1: and maybe even a part of our souls, and the

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Speaker 1: ability to read those is psychometry. That's when you hold

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Speaker 1: on to an object in your hands. I mean you've

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Speaker 1: you've been there. I can prove to use psychometry exists

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Speaker 1: because people spend hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, if

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Speaker 1: not millions of dollars to have the actual original object

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Speaker 1: of something and not a reproduction. Right, you know, why

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Speaker 1: why should it matter unless that object has some kind

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Speaker 1: of emotional or spiritual charge to it. There's a reason

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Speaker 1: why you you know, collectors want the original, you know,

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Speaker 1: Babe Ruth mit or you know this specific signed object,

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Speaker 1: I mean signature is our whole other thing. I mean

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Speaker 1: talk about you know, giving something power, putting you know,

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Speaker 1: your part of your soul into something. I think, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: objects it can just be you know, Yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: have some coins in your pockets that happen to be

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Speaker 1: you know, pocket change. But if you have a lucky

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Speaker 1: coin that you always carry with you, you know, if

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Speaker 1: someone who's well versed in psychometry will be able to

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Speaker 1: hold that and not filter and go. And I do

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Speaker 1: that a lot in my work. So much my work

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Speaker 1: is holding onto an object or just holding someone's hand

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Speaker 1: and just not filtering, just going with what comes to me.

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Speaker 1: And I have so many people who say like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, how many times have you thought

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Speaker 1: of something and thought, oh, I should have gone with

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Speaker 1: my initial gut, I shouldn't have changed my mind. That's

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Speaker 1: what psychometry is, That's what intuition is. You just don't

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Speaker 1: change your mind in the first place. You just stick

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Speaker 1: with what comes to you naturally. What is that little

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Speaker 1: voice that when you hear in our heads, Joe, is

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Speaker 1: it our conscience? Is our subconscious mind? What is it

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Speaker 1: a guardian angel? That little voice that tells us right

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Speaker 1: and wrong? Oh? I think it's it's any of those things.

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Speaker 1: It's all of those things. I mean, my intuition, maybe

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Speaker 1: your guardian angel and vice versa. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say someone else's. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to speak for anyone else in this regards. I believe,

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I think so often we just don't

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Speaker 1: We don't listen to whatever that voice is. We don't

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Speaker 1: pay attention to other people, we don't pay attention to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And I think a big part of you know, just

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Speaker 1: learning is to just learning to listen what happens when

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Speaker 1: when you open your mind and really pay attention to

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Speaker 1: others and pay attention to yourselves. I think there's definitely

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Speaker 1: been moments in my life and other peoples that were

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Speaker 1: definitely guardian angels. And I'm sure there were other times

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Speaker 1: where the person just you know, intuitively processed everything so

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Speaker 1: quickly and their their brain just made an instant you know,

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Speaker 1: computation like a computer and instantly allowed them to serve

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Speaker 1: the car at just that exact moment. I think, um, both,

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Speaker 1: if one is possible, then both are possible in my opinion.

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Speaker 1: The San Francisco Examiner calls you the a cult deficionado.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? She saw a show and in

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Speaker 1: Chicago I was doing and the reporter used that term

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Speaker 1: a cult aficionado. And I find that fascinating because you know,

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Speaker 1: a cult secrets or hidden, and aficionado means expert or

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Speaker 1: no worth, so it literally means secret, no word, which

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Speaker 1: I think is really really cool. It looks cool on

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Speaker 1: a business card, but then people expect that you're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing like you know, sacrifices in the woods

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Speaker 1: and stuff. So I have I have neglected to put

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Speaker 1: it on business cards yet, but it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: really fun title. And again I love the idea of

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Speaker 1: you know, getting secrets and things that are hidden and

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Speaker 1: you know knowing those things. But I mean, we all are.

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Speaker 1: It's twice. That's why you do this show. That's why

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Speaker 1: we're all here right now. Listen to more Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more