Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy.
Speaker 2: Dose of friendship.
Speaker 1: T T. This lab is gonna be a fun one today.
Speaker 1: I already know it is because wine. It ties in
Speaker 1: a few of my favorite things.
Speaker 2: A few of your favorite things. Tell us?
Speaker 1: What are they? So the holiday season? I think it's
Speaker 1: just a nice time of year. You know, the radio
Speaker 1: stations are playing all the Christmas carols. Mariah Carey back
Speaker 1: on her bullshit and I love her for it. I
Speaker 1: think also there's just something about the holiday times, like
Speaker 1: throw your cares away. You know, everybody's working together so
Speaker 1: we can have some of that holiday magic, which I
Speaker 1: know is invisible labor by someone else, but it just
Speaker 1: helps us socialize and enjoy one another. And we've talked
Speaker 1: about like the art of celebration in a lab before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like temporal, so like based on time,
Speaker 1: it's like the people you have around you. It really
Speaker 1: just puts a lot of people in a very good mood. Well,
Speaker 1: we talk about tradition, particularly around the holidays. There is
Speaker 1: a holiday carols and there's what I consider to be
Speaker 1: like the backdrop of every holiday season for me, and
Speaker 1: that is a TV in the living room going with
Speaker 1: a Hallmark movie, okay, a Hallmark Christmas movie. Every year
Speaker 1: Hallmark drops about forty of these things. Absolutely, absolutely, I
Speaker 1: think Brandy is going to be in one with her
Speaker 1: daughter this Christmas. Yes, I'm pretty sure Kelly Rowland did one.
Speaker 1: It feels like you gotta do one at least once
Speaker 1: I'm ready to do. My Christmas movies are the new
Speaker 1: like Marvel or superhero movies, Like everybody had to have
Speaker 1: a superhero movie. Now everybody has to have a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, there has to be something
Speaker 1: to it right, and who's track these movies? And what
Speaker 1: are the best ones? We got to get into it,
Speaker 1: and so we say, hmm, we know somebody who was
Speaker 1: able to take some analytics and some feel good vibes
Speaker 1: and put it right with those Christmas movies. And so
Speaker 1: I talked to Jenna Golden about the Hallmark movies. Yes,
Speaker 1: and Jenna Golden is a woman of many talents, and
Speaker 1: so I was so sad I missed this episode, but
Speaker 1: I know you got all the goods from Jenna.
Speaker 3: I am Jenna Golden, and I don't really know why,
Speaker 3: but somehow I decided that I wanted to start watching
Speaker 3: all of the Hallmark Christmas movies every year and rating
Speaker 3: them on a scale of one to five, as well
Speaker 3: as providing a little bit of context and a review
Speaker 3: on social media channels. And I started doing it. I
Speaker 3: believe it was twenty twenty, which makes sense because we
Speaker 3: were all home and there wasn't a whole lot to do,
Speaker 3: and there also wasn't a lot of joy in the
Speaker 3: world at that time, and it just felt like there
Speaker 3: was time to engage on something like that. And I
Speaker 3: started watching them and found it slightly more entertaining than
Speaker 3: I thought I would actually liked some of them, which
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure was going to be the case. And
Speaker 3: now here we are, six years later, getting ready to
Speaker 3: start the new year and the new cycle of the
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five Hallmark Christmas movie season.
Speaker 1: Now I love that you've added a rating system, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, this may have to do with some of
Speaker 1: your other background.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that what happened was when I started
Speaker 3: watching the movies and then I started posting about them
Speaker 3: on Instagram and on Twitter. I was sort of shocked
Speaker 3: how many people secretly replied to me that I've actually
Speaker 3: been watching these for years, or I actually secretly really
Speaker 3: like these movies, and there's like this underground group of
Speaker 3: people who tend to love it. But most people do
Speaker 3: not have time to watch four Christmas movies every year,
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people realize that some
Speaker 3: of them are good and most of them are eh. Yes.
Speaker 3: So I kind of thought, well, if people are only
Speaker 3: going to watch two or three of these every season,
Speaker 3: if I could kind of create this ever evolving list
Speaker 3: that pushed the best ones to the top, then people
Speaker 3: could come back when they finally had that moment during
Speaker 3: the holidays with their family or free time on Sunday
Speaker 3: in front of the fire and say, Okay, if I'm
Speaker 3: going to watch one of these, which one is going
Speaker 3: to be the best one to watch? And so providing
Speaker 3: a rating system helps people to look through and sift
Speaker 3: through and figure out, all, right, which one's the best,
Speaker 3: so that I'm going to have the best experience when
Speaker 3: I decide to actually sit down and watch one of these.
Speaker 1: I like that it feels like you are simplifying the
Speaker 1: process of discovery when it comes to holiday movies, and
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that deters me
Speaker 1: when it comes to watching these kind of movies. Some
Speaker 1: of them are there's just a few good, and the
Speaker 1: rest of them just kind of fall on the uh
Speaker 1: iffy end right now. Do you feel like there are
Speaker 1: things that you can tell very early on, like are
Speaker 1: you able to kind of nail your rating early on
Speaker 1: when you first started watching a film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you've.
Speaker 3: Got a good sense for it pretty early on. There's
Speaker 3: a few things that I feel like you're always looking for.
Speaker 3: And let's be clear, like none of these are all
Speaker 3: that unique or creative or like totally outside of the box.
Speaker 3: So you pretty much know going in like it's probably
Speaker 3: going to get wrapped up in a nice neat boat,
Speaker 3: someone's gonna probably fall in love, there's gonna be a
Speaker 3: good kiss. So all things being equal, the things generally
Speaker 3: are looking for, or I'm looking for in the beginning
Speaker 3: that are going to let me like check them off
Speaker 3: the list. First is chemistry. Do you feel like the
Speaker 3: leads actually are into each other? A lot of times
Speaker 3: some of these movies, you honestly feel like they're brother
Speaker 3: and sister and you're a little bit like, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not feeling that vibe. That's not doing it for me.
Speaker 3: So there's chemistry for me, there's like the cozy feels
Speaker 3: and vibes. So am I seeing like cookie baking? Is
Speaker 3: there like a snowball fight?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Are we having cocoa? Are we decorating a tree? Are
Speaker 3: we sledding? All of these like typical things that make
Speaker 3: you feel like it's very seasonal. And then lastly, generally
Speaker 3: you're looking for something that isn't overly cheesy and isn't
Speaker 3: too silly that you're actually kind of buying it a
Speaker 3: little bit and jumping in.
Speaker 2: In that way.
Speaker 3: So oftentimes you can tell some of those things from
Speaker 3: the beginning. And I think also to your point that
Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier, in addition to their being so many,
Speaker 3: so Hallmark alone this year is actually making a change.
Speaker 2: So there's actually only.
Speaker 3: Twenty four new movies in twenty twenty five, which sounds
Speaker 3: like a lot, but there were forty one last year,
Speaker 3: and there were forty the year before, So that's just Tallmark,
Speaker 3: and I think that they are hopefully moving towards a
Speaker 3: quality verse quantity. But then there's Lifetime, then there's Netflix,
Speaker 3: there's ABC, So it's not just Hallmark themselves in terms
Speaker 3: of the amount that they have really spearheaded and they
Speaker 3: have kind of been king of the hill in this area.
Speaker 3: But all these new entrants into the space too have
Speaker 3: added additional holiday viewing, which sounds great but can be really.
Speaker 2: Overwhelming when you're trying to figure out what you want
Speaker 2: to watch.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: I was listening to you say like, I'm looking for
Speaker 1: the cozy factor, and immediately there's a little bit of psychology,
Speaker 1: you know, stirring around in my head, because I was like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: I think there are certain like sensory elements, Like I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about what's happening when we're watching these movies.
Speaker 2: If it's a holiday time, it's already chaotic.
Speaker 1: I am trying to figure out which holiday parties I'm
Speaker 1: going to how I'm going to tell my nephews that
Speaker 1: I'm not buying them gifts this year, you know. But
Speaker 1: I think there's often just all of this stuff that's
Speaker 1: happening in the background of our own lives, and that
Speaker 1: we sometimes are looking for things that feel soothing and calm.
Speaker 3: For me, It's like snow is on the ground, there's
Speaker 3: a fire lit somewhere inside, there's cookies in the oven.
Speaker 2: Like that just is the perfect winter time experience. So
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 3: That whole look and feel and it just kind of
Speaker 3: like takes you into the season and you don't have
Speaker 3: to even celebrate Christmas or be religious to appreciate that
Speaker 3: it's still this beautiful season filled with all these traditions
Speaker 3: and warmth.
Speaker 2: And I think also your question.
Speaker 3: About you know, or your point about the fact that
Speaker 3: like it's a hectic time of year, I mean that
Speaker 3: is why people are drawn to these movies. Yeah, no
Speaker 3: one's watching these movies for like the complex story lines, right,
Speaker 3: no one's expecting anything. Crazy people say over and over again,
Speaker 3: I can't believe you watch not just one of those movies,
Speaker 3: but forty of those movies. Aren't they all the same?
Speaker 3: And the answer is sort of. But honestly, the reason
Speaker 3: why people watch them is because they're light, they're easy,
Speaker 3: they're low stakes, they're totally uncomplicated, and also like the
Speaker 3: world's complicated, and so people just want easy for an
Speaker 3: hour and a half, and like Hallmark delivers that times
Speaker 3: a thousand.
Speaker 1: When you mentioned the snow scene, I was thinking back
Speaker 1: to a childhood Christmas classic for me was home Alone.
Speaker 2: I love It's a top five for me. Top five.
Speaker 1: First of all, there was snow on the ground, and
Speaker 1: that was so rare growing up in North Carolina. It
Speaker 1: was it was like, it's not snowy, you know. So
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I love that. Being home alone
Speaker 1: my dream as a kid, making mac.
Speaker 3: And cheese and just sitting by yourself at the table.
Speaker 3: Like he doesn't want to do that, right, Yes.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it was okay with the burglars
Speaker 1: trying to get in, but you know, as time has
Speaker 1: gone on, those things have shifted. And when I was
Speaker 1: just thinking, like, what's the kind of element that I
Speaker 1: really like in holiday movies, I think that it's everybody
Speaker 1: coming together for a big dinner or big meal, a
Speaker 1: scene that is set around the Christmas meal. It used
Speaker 1: to feel like Thanksgiving movies had that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: but I think the Christmas meal is very important and
Speaker 1: the chaos that goes on in the home around that.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I hear people
Speaker 1: talk about or I spy on people talking about on
Speaker 1: threads and on Instagram, and I think this may be shifting,
Speaker 1: like the big city character goes to small town, runs
Speaker 1: into someone from high school or whatever, and now there's romance.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 3: I think that the real truth is that those are
Speaker 3: all absolutely storylines period.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to lie to you.
Speaker 3: That is one hundred percent a very common trope that
Speaker 3: takes place in Christmas movies, not just Hallmark Christmas movies,
Speaker 3: but traditionally have been common in Hallmark Christmas movies.
Speaker 2: Very often.
Speaker 3: You've got big city girl, you know, boss lady goes
Speaker 3: to her hometown, meets old boyfriend who runs a Christmas
Speaker 3: tree mill with this family. The business is going to
Speaker 3: be sold. What are they going to do? Like that
Speaker 3: is the stakes of the situation. In the past, though,
Speaker 3: I would say it was almost ninety eight percent of
Speaker 3: the time that the big city business woman ends up
Speaker 3: leaving her career and leaving the city and moving and
Speaker 3: becoming a partner to the Christmas tree farm. Which listen,
Speaker 3: if that's your dream, have at it. Nobody is judging
Speaker 3: that choice. But I would say in the last five
Speaker 3: ish years that has changed, and so we're not always
Speaker 3: seeing the same outcome, even if we're seeing some of
Speaker 3: the same actions throughout it. Oftentimes more recently, the man
Speaker 3: moves to the city, or the woman decides to split
Speaker 3: her time, or they come up with like a more
Speaker 3: modern take on how this can look. And the real
Speaker 3: truth is that Hallmark itself, if you want to go
Speaker 3: there like, has gone through a massive shift in the
Speaker 3: last five to seven years in terms of leadership, in
Speaker 3: terms of diversity. And so I think when you talk
Speaker 3: to people at first and you say Hallmark Christmas movies,
Speaker 3: there is especially for people like me who live in
Speaker 3: a big city and you know, live on a coast,
Speaker 3: there is an assumption that these are very traditional, very conservative,
Speaker 3: very white movies. And it is one hundred percent true
Speaker 3: that for most of Hallmark's existence that was the case,
Speaker 3: and in the last five years that has changed a
Speaker 3: lot due to a massive shift in leadership. And so
Speaker 3: I would say to people who think of the old Hallmark,
Speaker 3: it's not that anymore. It is shifting and changing. There's
Speaker 3: still work to be done, but there is a lot
Speaker 3: moving there.
Speaker 1: So if you haven't seen a Hallmark movie since COVID,
Speaker 1: I would just say give it another try. Maybe there's
Speaker 1: something out there for you. Yeah, we've talked about the
Speaker 1: snow and kind of the scene setting what we typically
Speaker 1: think of for the holidays. I think so many of
Speaker 1: them have in the past led with like a romantic
Speaker 1: interest for these holiday movies. But we're also seeing the
Speaker 1: rise of a broadcast of characters very much where you're
Speaker 1: not leaning on just you know, two people. I'm curious,
Speaker 1: you know, when we look at all these elements, particularly
Speaker 1: as we see the shift from romance to the broadcast,
Speaker 1: you think that's positive. What's your take on that as
Speaker 1: a reviewer of so many of these films.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're exactly right. That has been a
Speaker 3: huge shift in the last few years. On Hallmark in particular,
Speaker 3: it was always a story of a man and a
Speaker 3: woman and waiting for the kiss at the end.
Speaker 2: And for those who have.
Speaker 3: Not watched older Hallmark movies, the kiss always happened in
Speaker 3: the last one minute of the movie until the last
Speaker 3: five to six years, so very chaste, waiting till the
Speaker 3: end and then you get the kiss and then credits
Speaker 3: roll and it is done. What we've seen in the
Speaker 3: last few years is so many stories that are around
Speaker 3: sisters as the main storyline of love, you know, through
Speaker 3: working through their familial relationships, best friends, large families that
Speaker 3: are dealing with multi generations, and so I would say
Speaker 3: Hallmark made a very large shift that maybe even twenty
Speaker 3: percent of the movies aren't just focused solely on this
Speaker 3: one romantic connection, and I think it's positive. I think
Speaker 3: that love is happens in many different ways, and romantic
Speaker 3: love is one way, but there's all other types of love,
Speaker 3: whether it's friendship or siblings or other different types of relationships,
Speaker 3: and I think that it gets boring watching the same
Speaker 3: exact relationship over and over.
Speaker 2: And over again.
Speaker 3: So I welcome the fact that we can explore all
Speaker 3: different types of relationships and enjoy them just as much
Speaker 3: as the others. And I also really love a love story,
Speaker 3: so you know, I like it all. But I think
Speaker 3: that always relying on the exact same formula, especially in
Speaker 3: today's age, where people live very different types of lives
Speaker 3: and there's so many different ways to live, I think
Speaker 3: it's nice to highlight different And then also to your point,
Speaker 3: there have been a lot of movies in the last
Speaker 3: few years that have been kind of like these gigantic casts.
Speaker 3: So twenty people and it's busy and crazy and everyone's
Speaker 3: running around, and fifteen people came in for the holiday
Speaker 3: and they all rented out a hotel or whatever that
Speaker 3: might be. And so it's like these ensemble casts of
Speaker 3: all these different stars together and that's also fun. It
Speaker 3: breaks up the monotony of the same story over and
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 1: You have helped us kind of think about some of
Speaker 1: the shifts. I think it's easy to rely on, you know,
Speaker 1: a first experience you had with Hallmark, like Hallmark and
Speaker 1: Lifetime movies being on in the background is something I
Speaker 1: am very familiar with and think about when I think
Speaker 1: about the holiday season. But I have to be honest,
Speaker 1: I haven't given them another shot. I see your reviews,
Speaker 1: but I haven't given them another shot. And so for
Speaker 1: someone who is saying, okay, Jenna, we hear you, we
Speaker 1: hear that there's some changes, we should give it another shot.
Speaker 1: What's on your mount Rushmore? Who's your list of you know,
Speaker 1: your list of movies you think people should check out.
Speaker 1: They can be Hallmark or if you want to bring
Speaker 1: in some of the competitors, if you have some Netflix, Lifetime,
Speaker 1: Hulu recommendations, We're open to those two.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, first of all, I would say, you know,
Speaker 3: all of these places, whether it's Hallmark or Hulu, or
Speaker 3: whatever have apps and descriptions and so like, definitely do
Speaker 3: a little bit of research beforehand, because again, what you
Speaker 3: don't want to happen is you decide to like cozy
Speaker 3: up for that first holiday movie of the year and
Speaker 3: it's like the only day that you have and you're
Speaker 3: so excited to like put on the pajamas and sit
Speaker 3: by the fire and do the thing. Yeah, and then
Speaker 3: you watch like the total dud and you're like, oh, wow.
Speaker 2: Did I even bother right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I would definitely, you know, do your best
Speaker 3: to kind of look around. For me, I would say
Speaker 3: there are also specific actors and actresses that I like
Speaker 3: regularly am super drawn to and do an amazing so
Speaker 3: on Hallmark. For me, Ashley Williams, they are some of
Speaker 3: the queens of Hallmark that have been there for years
Speaker 3: and years that really do a wonderful job of acting
Speaker 3: and they really pull you in and they could balance
Speaker 3: the emotional with the funny. So for me, I'm kind
Speaker 3: of gravitating towards some of them. I would say for
Speaker 3: Hallmark last year there was a really really fun new
Speaker 3: partnership that they did with the Kansas City Chiefs. So
Speaker 3: for those of you who like sports but also want
Speaker 3: to watch a Hallmark Christmas movie. They did this crossover.
Speaker 3: They're they're doing another one this year. Okay, so last
Speaker 3: year's was Holiday Touchdown, A Chief's Love Story, and this
Speaker 3: year is going to be a Holiday Touchdown a Bill's
Speaker 3: Love Story. And the one last year was just really fun.
Speaker 3: It was about a family that loved sports, loved football.
Speaker 3: It ran through all the generations, and there's a love story,
Speaker 3: but there's the family component, but there's the sports, and
Speaker 3: I think it was just like really different than anything
Speaker 3: they'd ever done, and I think it appeals to a
Speaker 3: very wide swath of people, not just females.
Speaker 2: Lots of people that might.
Speaker 3: Be interested if you're cooking or you're at home and
Speaker 3: people can kind of watch in the background. So I
Speaker 3: would recommend checking out one of those because they tend to.
Speaker 2: Be really appealing and fun.
Speaker 3: Another one that's been really popular in the last few
Speaker 3: years was there's now been I think three or four
Speaker 3: of them, but the first one, I believe was Three
Speaker 3: Wise Men and a Baby and they took like three
Speaker 3: of the Hallmark hunks that have been around for years
Speaker 3: that are brothers and they end up with a baby
Speaker 3: for a long weekend, and it's you know, the brothers,
Speaker 3: it's the family, it's the baby. It's funny, it's romantic,
Speaker 3: it's all the things. And it's obviously a riff on
Speaker 3: a movie from our childhood, which was Three Men and
Speaker 3: a Baby, So.
Speaker 2: That's a fun one.
Speaker 3: It is quite surprising how many secret Hallmark movie watchers
Speaker 3: are out there that you don't know that will slide
Speaker 3: into my dms. People like very sophisticated conservative men, like
Speaker 3: people you just would not expect.
Speaker 2: But there is something kind of universal.
Speaker 3: About that warm Christmas movie in the background that everybody
Speaker 3: just kind of craves when it gets cold out. And
Speaker 3: so people I think are becoming more and more comfortable
Speaker 3: with coming out with it because it's become cooler to
Speaker 3: like like this stuff. But I would say, also, there's
Speaker 3: so many people who will tell me, Okay, I don't
Speaker 3: necessarily love the movies, but like my mom and my
Speaker 3: grandma watched these when I was growing up, and like
Speaker 3: that's really special to me, and so I associate with that.
Speaker 3: So I think so many people have like a generational
Speaker 3: pull to it because so many moms, grandma's aunts spent
Speaker 3: a lot of time watching these movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, another holiday tradition. T T. I gotta make sure
Speaker 1: I watch the Hallmark movies this year because I think
Speaker 1: I had been sleeping on them. Yeah. I feel like
Speaker 1: lots of people sleep on them. And I am the
Speaker 1: type of person that, like, you know, I'm scrolling on
Speaker 1: TV and trying to find something to watch, and I'll
Speaker 1: see Hallmark has hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 2: Of movies just back to back.
Speaker 1: And it's not just Hallmark. Yeah, Brandy, she has a
Speaker 1: Lifetime movie that is coming out and it's a Christmas
Speaker 1: movie and it's called Christmas every Day. And I'm definitely
Speaker 1: gonna be watching that. So, you know, all these Christmas movies,
Speaker 1: they may feel a little cheesy, but you know, I
Speaker 1: think they're sweet and they're starting to change. So there's
Speaker 1: a little bit of something for everybody out there now,
Speaker 1: not just waiting for the build up to the single kiss.
Speaker 1: Tell us what you're watching this holiday season? Mm hm
Speaker 1: ooh you remember This Christmas? Yes, the one that had
Speaker 1: Chris Brown in it. My friend went to trivia and
Speaker 1: somebody said Chris Brown's version of This Christmas was better
Speaker 1: than Donnie Hathaway's version. Yeah, we have got to be
Speaker 1: more serious as a people. This is very unserious times
Speaker 1: and we have got to be more serious. I want
Speaker 1: to hear everybody's holiday fads, all your hot takes. What's
Speaker 1: your favorite holiday movie? Is a Hallmark? Is it not?
Speaker 1: Tell me why all of it? Yeah? My brother in
Speaker 1: law said Mariah Carey can't sing? Is he?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: Clearly no, he needs help. You can find us on
Speaker 1: X and Instagram at Dope Labs. Podcast ct is on
Speaker 1: X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Sho, and
Speaker 1: you can find Zakiya at Ze said so. Dope Labs
Speaker 1: is a production of Lemonada Media. Our supervising producer is
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Speaker 1: Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Dansinger.
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Speaker 1: is Alison Canter. Original music composed and produced by Taka
Speaker 1: Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey.
Speaker 1: Dope Labs is executive produced by us T T Show
Speaker 1: Dia and Zakiyah Watkia,