WEBVTT - Episode 6: Meet The Man Who Made Millions Trading Mules

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, it's Monday, four December. Welcome to another edition of

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<v Speaker 1>the Odd Lots Podcast. I'm Joe Wisn'tall, Managing editor of

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Markets, and I'm Tracy Alloway, Executive editor of Bloomberg Markets.

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<v Speaker 1>So today I'm really excited because we're gonna talk a

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<v Speaker 1>lot about the trading business and Tracy, you and I

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<v Speaker 1>we sit in front of the Bloomberg terminals all day,

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<v Speaker 1>basically staring at these streams of data and headlines and

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<v Speaker 1>economic information and charts, lots of numbers like tronic things. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think, like what people, including myself, think of

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<v Speaker 1>what a trader does. They imagine a similar environment, wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>you say? Yeah, I think they think of that, or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the New York Stock Exchange for even though

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<v Speaker 1>there's no one actually on it anymore. But basically, this

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<v Speaker 1>idea is that a trader looks at a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>numbers and spots things that they see it's undervalued and

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<v Speaker 1>things it's overvalued. Maybe they use a spreadsheet, maybe they

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<v Speaker 1>use algorithms, but it's just this very digital type of thing, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a very abstract set of numbers and an abstract kind

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<v Speaker 1>of activity. Yeah, but obviously trading hasn't always been like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and today we're going to be talking about a very

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<v Speaker 1>different style of trading. Here is an audio hint of

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<v Speaker 1>what we're gonna be talking about. Hey, dollar to biotic

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<v Speaker 1>to dollar dollar tims. I have painted dollar ladd to

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<v Speaker 1>day time time told Gotti Alla bail. So that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of sounds like auctioneering to me pretty much. That's almost

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right. So we're gonna be talking about mule trading,

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<v Speaker 1>and specifically a guy who made his fortune trading mules

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<v Speaker 1>in the early nineteen hundreds in Mississippi. Jo, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to tell me it was mule trading a big thing

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<v Speaker 1>back then, So I wouldn't have guessed this. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it makes sense, I guess because mules were horton for

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<v Speaker 1>farms and other activities and no one had cars. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>are a few people have cars? So yes, mules were

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<v Speaker 1>a big thing. A few years ago, I was visiting

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<v Speaker 1>my wife's grandmother down in northern Mississippi, and I walked

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<v Speaker 1>into a bookstore in Oxford, Mississippi, and I saw this

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<v Speaker 1>book on the shelf called Mule Trader, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even need to open it. I'm a very big believer

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<v Speaker 1>in judging a book by the title or the cover,

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<v Speaker 1>and that it was called Mule Trader. So I had

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<v Speaker 1>to buy no idea. You were so attracted to mules. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm attracted to mule trading, and uh, it's a fantastic

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<v Speaker 1>book by this guy, William Ferris. He's a professor currently

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<v Speaker 1>at the University of North Carolina, and it's about this

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<v Speaker 1>guy ray Lum. The full title is Mule Trader ray

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<v Speaker 1>Lum's Tales of Horses, Mules and Men. And the idea is,

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<v Speaker 1>there's this guy who grew up in northern Mississippi and

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<v Speaker 1>at the age of thirteen he did his first mule

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<v Speaker 1>trade and then he bought more mules, and he had

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<v Speaker 1>a really good sense for what mules were valued, and

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<v Speaker 1>he started trading all over the south of the Southwest,

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<v Speaker 1>in Texas and Tennessee and everywhere, and he became a

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<v Speaker 1>huge deal eventually, more than in just mules, but in cattle, horses,

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<v Speaker 1>livestock in general. Was he like the citadel of mule trading?

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<v Speaker 1>I think so. I think one of the things is

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<v Speaker 1>that there's a lot of interesting parallels and things that

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<v Speaker 1>we can learn about what he did and trading today.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, he engaged in interstate arbitrage, buying mules in

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<v Speaker 1>one stays selling them elsewhere. He also engaged in warehousing,

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<v Speaker 1>so he had these huge stables that he bought, and

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<v Speaker 1>then when other farmers needed a place to store their mules,

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<v Speaker 1>he made a lot of money for them. Well, this

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<v Speaker 1>sounds awesome. I'm really excited. Yeah. And one other thing,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know something we've been watching in the

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<v Speaker 1>markets all out lately, especially you, is sort of this

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<v Speaker 1>illiquidity in certain areas of the market. Are mules a

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<v Speaker 1>liquid very much so, and so to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>like there was very poor price discovery. Again, they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have mule Bloomberg's back then, so they you couldn't just

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<v Speaker 1>look up a price. You could sometimes buy a mule

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<v Speaker 1>and sell it for twice as much that very same day.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm very intrigued on that point. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to bring in the author of the book, William R. Ferris,

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<v Speaker 1>a history professor at the University of North Carolina. Bill,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>Who was Ray Lum and why was his story worth telling?

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<v Speaker 1>Was a legendary trader of horses, mules, livestock who was

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<v Speaker 1>equally famous for his storytelling ability, and he lived into

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<v Speaker 1>his eighties, long after horses and mules had ceased to

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<v Speaker 1>be a central part of the South and of America.

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<v Speaker 1>But he kept those worlds alive through his stories. And

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<v Speaker 1>I was lucky enough to be able to record many

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<v Speaker 1>hours of his nails. How big was the mule trade?

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<v Speaker 1>How big of a deal were mules? And how big

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<v Speaker 1>was this whole industry? The mules were the backbone of life,

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<v Speaker 1>not only in the South, but in our nation. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been said that America was built by the mule.

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<v Speaker 1>The first mule bread was bread about George Washington, and

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<v Speaker 1>it said that the father of our country was the

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<v Speaker 1>father of the mule. And the travel across the country,

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<v Speaker 1>the farming, the moving of heavy loads, everything that this

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<v Speaker 1>country did for several centuries was done on the back

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<v Speaker 1>of a mule. Why why mules? Why not just donkeys

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<v Speaker 1>or horses? What was the actual benefit of having this

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<v Speaker 1>crust hybrid? It's read, uh, with a cross between a

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<v Speaker 1>horse and a donkey, And it's stronger than either of

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<v Speaker 1>the parents, and it has much better judgment. A horse

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<v Speaker 1>will work itself to death. A mule if it's too

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<v Speaker 1>hot and tired will simply stop. So Bill, let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about Ray. How did he get his start? He made

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<v Speaker 1>his first mule trade at the age of thirteen, right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right. He really had trading in his d n A.

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<v Speaker 1>He was working for a merchant and just as a lark.

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<v Speaker 1>One day he bought a horse for something like ten

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<v Speaker 1>dollars and sold it for fifteen and he told his

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<v Speaker 1>boss what he had done. The boss said, Ray, I

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<v Speaker 1>think you can make more money trading horses and you

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<v Speaker 1>can working here in my grocery. And that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>he did. He made really millions of dollars over his

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<v Speaker 1>lifetime trading horses and mules. A few days later another

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<v Speaker 1>come up with the halts. I bought him and give

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen for him halters with cheap then the little halters

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<v Speaker 1>of sin. But he'd been young, so I gave him

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen dollars for him tied him at the point Mrs

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<v Speaker 1>Fish and Ray. He said, don't you think you could

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<v Speaker 1>make more money out of trading? And you could? Yea all?

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<v Speaker 1>I said, I don't know me to George, but I'll

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<v Speaker 1>try it. Well, I haven't been without a halt, said

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<v Speaker 1>do you think the way he interacted with people was

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<v Speaker 1>the key to his success as a trader. Or I

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<v Speaker 1>guess what I'm getting at is what made him so

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<v Speaker 1>good at trading? Well, I think he just loved the exchange.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like a card player in a poker game.

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<v Speaker 1>You never know what hand you'll be dealt. But he

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<v Speaker 1>learned to. I can say if a horse was blind

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<v Speaker 1>and he bought a horse or traded for a blind

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<v Speaker 1>or a lame horse, he learned how to take that

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<v Speaker 1>animal and trade it to the next person and and

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<v Speaker 1>stay afloat as a broker, so to speak. But he

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<v Speaker 1>made a big deal. In the book, he talks about

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<v Speaker 1>the importance of honesty, that he didn't want to lie

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<v Speaker 1>about the quality of his mules. How do you trade

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<v Speaker 1>a blind mule while also being honest with everyone. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>he was very clear that he never told a lie.

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<v Speaker 1>But when he traded with other traders, you're dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>people who are in the business as opposed to trading

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<v Speaker 1>with a child or someone who was not a trader.

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<v Speaker 1>So you would use special language. You would say he's

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<v Speaker 1>a little dim and the peeper's which meant to another trader,

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<v Speaker 1>he's blind. Or he would say he's only hitting on three,

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<v Speaker 1>which means only three of his legs are are good

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<v Speaker 1>and he's lame in the fourth. You have to tell

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<v Speaker 1>us how did mules actually trade back then, because I

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<v Speaker 1>imagine it wasn't on an electronic exchange or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Right now, this is pre internet. You had basically road traders.

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<v Speaker 1>Like when he began, he would take a string of

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<v Speaker 1>mules and horses on a rope and ride them up

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<v Speaker 1>into the Mississippi Delta and he would sell and trade

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<v Speaker 1>the animals to plantation owners who would then use them

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<v Speaker 1>to raise cotton. And so that's the first sort of trading.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he began to work with livestock auction barns,

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<v Speaker 1>where you would have thousands of animals that would pass

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<v Speaker 1>through in a day and be traded. So one thing

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<v Speaker 1>I find interesting about this is that in addition to

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<v Speaker 1>looking at an animal and sizing up its value and

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<v Speaker 1>what you might be able to sell it for, you

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<v Speaker 1>also have to take into account the costs of transporting

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<v Speaker 1>a living thing and warehousing it, I guess, and feeding

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<v Speaker 1>it and taking care of it. That's right on. One

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<v Speaker 1>of his biggest trades, he bought eighty thousand horses and

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<v Speaker 1>La Plant South Dakota, and and mules. And he gathered

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<v Speaker 1>them and shipped them by train to New Orleans, where

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<v Speaker 1>he sold them two Italian merchants. And as he said,

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<v Speaker 1>the horses were wild. They had never seen a human being,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Italians had never seen a horse. And after

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<v Speaker 1>he sold them, his ringman said, let's go get dinner.

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<v Speaker 1>And Mr. Lump said, I want to stay and see

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<v Speaker 1>the show. And he said what show? And he said,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to see how the people had bought these horses.

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<v Speaker 1>Are going to get them home. And that was quite

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<v Speaker 1>a drama. They had ropes on their feet of the horses,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were pulling him through the streets and some

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<v Speaker 1>of them got loose, and we're running in the streets

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<v Speaker 1>of New Orleans. It was a Faulknerian kind of scene.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned some of the lingo that he used to

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<v Speaker 1>describe a mule. What are some of the other terms.

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<v Speaker 1>I loved. One of the terms that in the book

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<v Speaker 1>is if he made one percent on the trade, that

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<v Speaker 1>was actually meant he made a hundred percent on the trade,

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<v Speaker 1>or a two percent gain actually meant two on the trade.

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<v Speaker 1>What were some of the other lingo the traders used

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<v Speaker 1>to talk back then. Well, he often would use language

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<v Speaker 1>associated with livestock for people. He would describe a person

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<v Speaker 1>by saying his bread is not done, which means he's

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<v Speaker 1>not fully there, or he's not as sharp as he

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<v Speaker 1>should be. And if he made if he bought a

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<v Speaker 1>horse for a hundred dollars and sold it for two hundred,

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<v Speaker 1>as you said, he would say, I made one one day.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to come along with a little halt, and

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<v Speaker 1>I bought it a little hall given to over the

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<v Speaker 1>hair point, tied him over that of the post. Well

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<v Speaker 1>before night came long tame, and I've told him to

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<v Speaker 1>him for twenty made one percent of the Dutchman says.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the ways that he made money he owned

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<v Speaker 1>some huge storage facilities, right um, And so there was

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<v Speaker 1>a part in the book that mentioned there was a

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<v Speaker 1>big flood, a lot of flooding, and some of the

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<v Speaker 1>local farmers had to store their mules and his facilities

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<v Speaker 1>and he made money on that. And it made me

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<v Speaker 1>think about sort of modern trading and how the people

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<v Speaker 1>who owned the storage facilities for various commodities often can

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<v Speaker 1>make money on a warehousing fees. That's right. It's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>the country really he was built on livestock and trading,

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<v Speaker 1>and as that passed out, the language horsepower for cars

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<v Speaker 1>and stock where it's stock originally referred to livestock, but

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<v Speaker 1>today it refers to commodities and trading stock in a

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<v Speaker 1>capitalist world in which you buy and sell stock, which

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<v Speaker 1>gives you partial ownership of a company. But the same

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<v Speaker 1>mindset of trading and buying your way into wealth applied

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<v Speaker 1>to both ray Lum's world and to the world's today.

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<v Speaker 1>And Ross Pierrot, in writing about his first trades, says

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<v Speaker 1>that they were horse trades. He would buy a horse

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning and sell it for a profit in

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<v Speaker 1>the afternoon, which he said they called in that time

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<v Speaker 1>a day trader. Well, that phrase continues today on the

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<v Speaker 1>New York Stock Exchange. Absolutely, and Ross Perot traded at

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<v Speaker 1>the famous fort Worth Stockyards, and ray Lum, a generation earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>was also a major player in the fort Worth Stockyards market.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that correct? That is absolutely correct. Mr Lum spent

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<v Speaker 1>many of his most productive years as a trader in Texas,

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<v Speaker 1>and he introduced what they called night sales because it

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<v Speaker 1>was cooler at night, and both the livestock and the

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<v Speaker 1>buyers were more comfortable and he would go uh. He

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<v Speaker 1>was based in fort Worth with the Owen brothers, but

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 1>he would go into the small communities and have livestock

0:14:54.440 --> 0:15:00.280
<v Speaker 1>auctions right at the doorstep of the farmers there. What

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.960
<v Speaker 1>was fort Worth like the lifestyle back in the day

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 1>was it sort of a lot of gambling and drinking?

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 1>What was what was it like? It was very much

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a frontier world and Mr Lum understood that the way

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 1>to a lot of the buyer's hearts was whiskey. And

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 1>he would before a big sale the next day with

0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>the corps of engineers, he would invite the colonels who

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:32.800
<v Speaker 1>were buying his mules to come by. He said, I've

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>got a case of tea in the car well. The

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 1>tea was bourbon, and they would order up stakes and

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>for out bourbon, and they had quite an evening. And

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:49.080
<v Speaker 1>the next day these military buyers would buy everything he

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 1>had with a smile. I can see a lot of

0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.800
<v Speaker 1>parallels with trading back then and trading as it's done today.

0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 1>We still use the term day trader. Obviously, brokers still

0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 1>take their client, so I go the expensive dinners right

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.120
<v Speaker 1>to get that to sell their products. You have like

0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 1>a mutual fun company, take out broker with a steak

0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.240
<v Speaker 1>and alcohol. But there's one thing where I think there

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 1>is a big difference, and that's in price transparency. The

0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.760
<v Speaker 1>idea that raylm was making a hundred or two markup,

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>I'd find that hard to believe in today's market. Well,

0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 1>those were the stories he told. He's certainly trades where

0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 1>he lost, you know, he simply, you know, kept going

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>and stayed afloat because he was a good trader. My

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.560
<v Speaker 1>father was a farmer and he traded with ray Lum,

0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.400
<v Speaker 1>and he told me the only way not to get

0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 1>beaten in a trade with ray Lum is not to

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.280
<v Speaker 1>trade with him. So why were you know everybody knew

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>who ray Lum was. He became this huge legendary figure.

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>If the only way to beat him was to not

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 1>trade with him, why did people continue to trade with him? Well,

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.679
<v Speaker 1>you didn't necessarily beat him, But if you needed if

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.160
<v Speaker 1>you had an old mule that was tired and unable

0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 1>to plow, and you needed a good young mule, you

0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.159
<v Speaker 1>would trade with him and he would give you the

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 1>younger mule, and you would pay the difference that was

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 1>called the tall you would you would pay you a

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>little money, and then you would be able to continue farming,

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 1>and you would leave with a smile because he would

0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 1>tell all the stories, and he had a kind of banter.

0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:41.360
<v Speaker 1>He would say, this horse is so slick, a fly

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.960
<v Speaker 1>of a light on him and slip off and break

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>his legs. He just had a way with words. Spill

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.920
<v Speaker 1>do you think do you think what Ray provided as

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>a trader was a service that was valuable to the

0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 1>rest of society? Absolutely? Uh. It's said that the trader

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>is the poet of capitalism. Uh. You've bought things with

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:13.360
<v Speaker 1>a smile, and he in the encounter and the exchange,

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.320
<v Speaker 1>it was as though you were hearing poetry. Trader has

0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.439
<v Speaker 1>a band of trades in everything, and a real trader

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.120
<v Speaker 1>don't never find nothing that he can't use. If he's

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 1>a trader, he'll trade for anything you've got. He can

0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 1>use it. If he gave use it, he'll find somebody

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:35.040
<v Speaker 1>else a ten. That's his business. A good trader have

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.680
<v Speaker 1>lots of people, and he makes the money for himself.

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.119
<v Speaker 1>I always considered that I was a very good trader.

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 1>The closest thing to that today is probably the used

0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 1>car salesman who when you have an old car that's

0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.879
<v Speaker 1>worn out and you want a new one or a

0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.960
<v Speaker 1>better one. Then you go in and you you make

0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.639
<v Speaker 1>a trade on the parking lot. And many of the

0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 1>old traders, when horses and mules were no longer being traded,

0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:11.600
<v Speaker 1>they instinctively moved to the automobile. And uh, many of

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the old livestock barns were used as automobile. Yeah, I

0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.960
<v Speaker 1>wanted to ask you that specifically. So obviously, Ray Loan

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.280
<v Speaker 1>was born in the nineties. He lived over eighty years,

0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 1>So tell us quickly how he dealt with the economic

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.640
<v Speaker 1>transition which was massive that he saw during his lifetime.

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Well as he as he said, he lived from the

0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 1>time when horses and mules were the most valuable things

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 1>there until they were finally sold for dog food, which

0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:50.480
<v Speaker 1>really broke his heart. But he was a survivor and

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.960
<v Speaker 1>he kept those those worlds alive through his stories. But

0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:00.560
<v Speaker 1>he also moved on and he began to u Instead

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>of selling horses and mudles to farmers who had tractors,

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.879
<v Speaker 1>he would focus on children and find a pony, uh

0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and sell a new saddle to people who enjoyed riding.

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 1>But he scaled back his operation and essentially had a

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 1>livestock barn that would handle buying and selling of cattle,

0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.240
<v Speaker 1>but it was on a far smaller scale than what

0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.040
<v Speaker 1>he had seen as a young man. Bill Ferris, thank

0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.200
<v Speaker 1>you so much for joining us. I love this, I

0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:34.680
<v Speaker 1>love the parallels to the modern day, and I really

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.920
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you talking to us about the life of Raylon Well.

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:43.000
<v Speaker 1>It's my pleasure and I appreciate your interest in all

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 1>of this. Thank you for having me go to Matches

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:50.679
<v Speaker 1>that I remember when it wasn't too many automobiles around.

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Talking was about a dollar a pound At that time,

0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.919
<v Speaker 1>money was easy to get. People love tald that they

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted talking about. I went to Memphis and I went

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:10.359
<v Speaker 1>to uh So, Tracy, what what did you learn? Uh?

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.719
<v Speaker 1>I learned a lot um. I think even more than

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.159
<v Speaker 1>what I learned, I really just enjoyed listening to that

0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 1>tale of a sort of bygone era that's full of

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.360
<v Speaker 1>nostalgia and the idea of you know, people taking horses

0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 1>on trains down to New Orleans and selling them to

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 1>Italian Yeah. I love I love like the salesmanship that

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>was involved. I love the idea that because he was

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.240
<v Speaker 1>a good storyteller, that really helped him. Although again It

0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of reminds me of today, where some of the

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:44.000
<v Speaker 1>most famous investors and fund managers also happened to be

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.399
<v Speaker 1>great stories and they can, you know, spin you a

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 1>great yarn about what they're investing in. Yeah, I mean,

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 1>I guess there are some pockets in investing in trading

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 1>nowadays where there is still a human element that's really important.

0:21:56.840 --> 0:21:59.639
<v Speaker 1>But the thing that all of this reminds me of,

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 1>as we were talking about earlier, is just how electronified

0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.800
<v Speaker 1>our markets are nowadays. And on the one hand, that

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.359
<v Speaker 1>can be kind of bad because we lose those sort

0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 1>of human emotional connections to trading. But on the other hand,

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 1>you could make a strong argument that markets are more efficient.

0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:19.720
<v Speaker 1>I doubt I don't think that's not a tough argument

0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 1>to make when someone could sell a mule for twice

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>what they bought it the same day, right, But then

0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, you know mules, I guess we're

0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:30.359
<v Speaker 1>such idiosyncratic things that really required a lot of expertise

0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to price. Again, maybe that was a big service to market.

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.240
<v Speaker 1>I love that point about service, the idea that you know,

0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 1>even though he was the better trader, and if you're

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 1>traded with him, his speculation, you're probably going to lose.

0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.840
<v Speaker 1>But if you're a farmer that needed a new mule

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.920
<v Speaker 1>or you know, trade in your old bum mule, that

0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.440
<v Speaker 1>essentially he was like sort of providing liquidity. There was

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:52.680
<v Speaker 1>nobody else who would give you anything for that mule.

0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Probably right, And I think the liquidity point is a

0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:58.159
<v Speaker 1>big one because, as you and I both know, one

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>of the main discussions in financial mark kits right now

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.159
<v Speaker 1>is about liquidity and whether or not investors need to

0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.440
<v Speaker 1>pay up for the service of liquidity, and you know,

0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 1>whether or not they should expect that liquidity to always

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.920
<v Speaker 1>be there. Again, there are no easy answers, but it's

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.440
<v Speaker 1>certainly interesting to look back at a bygone era and yeah,

0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.440
<v Speaker 1>and cool to think of a very clear example where

0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:22.560
<v Speaker 1>someone who can provide that liquidity is clearly providing a

0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:28.560
<v Speaker 1>service to people and it's compensated for it exactly. All right, Well,

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.560
<v Speaker 1>thank you very much for joining us on another edition

0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.280
<v Speaker 1>of Odd Lots. I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can find me

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.960
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at the Stalwart and I'm Tracy Alloway. I'm

0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.560
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at Tracy Alloway. Thanks for listening, and we'll

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:49.840
<v Speaker 1>be back here next week. Time changes all thing. It

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:55.399
<v Speaker 1>changes off the fast. We actually haven't changed. How did

0:23:55.440 --> 0:24:00.160
<v Speaker 1>it being that had happened? You look at it it out.

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I've tried to bard and think about things that will

0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 1>happen hdyear keep trying to look into the future and

0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:10.640
<v Speaker 1>think of what's going to happen. I'm trying to pick

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 1>up what's the borrow. Joe and I are very proud

0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>of our new podcast, Odd Lots, but we are also

0:24:22.040 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 1>very proud of Bloomberg's other growing suite of original podcast

0:24:26.119 --> 0:24:29.160
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0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:33.040
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0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.680
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0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Tory Stillwell and Aki Edo and informative jargon free look

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0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.639
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0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:59.120
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