WEBVTT - Snowball - Episode 2: The Great Houdini 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:15.836 Pushkin. 0:00:18.436 --> 0:00:21.876 Hey, it's Jake. Before we get into this episode, I 0:00:21.916 --> 0:00:24.076 want to let you know that you can hear more 0:00:24.196 --> 0:00:28.116 ad free episodes from Snowball before the release to the 0:00:28.116 --> 0:00:32.236 public by signing up for Pushkin Plus. In addition to 0:00:32.236 --> 0:00:37.596 supporting narrative storytelling, you'll also get bonus episodes, full audio books, 0:00:37.836 --> 0:00:41.716 and binge's from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Fine 0:00:41.796 --> 0:00:44.916 Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover show page on Apple 0:00:44.956 --> 0:00:50.436 Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm, slash Plus. Let's get 0:00:50.436 --> 0:00:50.836 into it. 0:00:53.196 --> 0:00:57.596 This episode contains occasional course language, and we've used some 0:00:57.756 --> 0:01:02.996 voice actors to bring emails to life. The last time 0:01:03.036 --> 0:01:07.196 my brother saw Leslie Minouchian, she was getting on a plane. 0:01:07.956 --> 0:01:10.076 He thought she was just taking a holiday to see 0:01:10.076 --> 0:01:13.836 her family in the US. But just before Leslie turned 0:01:13.836 --> 0:01:17.476 to go through the gate, she said those words, the 0:01:17.596 --> 0:01:19.836 snowball was about to hit you. 0:01:20.916 --> 0:01:23.116 And Greg was so shell shocked. 0:01:23.356 --> 0:01:27.156 We didn't really know what that meant. No, well, how 0:01:27.316 --> 0:01:32.676 would manifest itself? What snowball? 0:01:32.756 --> 0:01:35.236 Within a couple of months, my parents had lost more 0:01:35.276 --> 0:01:40.396 than a million dollars, their home and their retirement, and 0:01:40.476 --> 0:01:46.116 Greg was heartbroken. As paperwork surfaced from the failed Dragonfly Cafa. 0:01:46.276 --> 0:01:49.756 Dad started to find some hectic stuff that didn't make sense. 0:01:50.956 --> 0:01:53.556 Leslie Minuchi and had left behind a trail of clues 0:01:53.596 --> 0:01:56.676 about what she had done, and the more my Dad discovered, 0:01:57.036 --> 0:02:01.236 the more obsessed he got about investigating. Dad even sort 0:02:01.276 --> 0:02:04.236 of turned himself into a sixty something year old hacker, 0:02:05.156 --> 0:02:08.716 and he eventually uncovered a web of deception so strange 0:02:09.196 --> 0:02:13.916 that it's kind of funny. Welcome to Unravel season four. 0:02:14.476 --> 0:02:17.196 I'm Molly Wards and this is Snowball. 0:02:19.716 --> 0:02:21.756 I need to clear this up. 0:02:21.916 --> 0:02:23.556 Don't call yourself Houdini. 0:02:23.676 --> 0:02:26.756 Held it up to the light and everything merged. 0:02:27.076 --> 0:02:29.276 That person has a border placed on it. 0:02:29.596 --> 0:02:31.316 It's just like a finger and it it's a big 0:02:31.356 --> 0:02:33.076 metal phone. 0:02:41.716 --> 0:02:47.076 It's so weird. That is weird. It is weird. 0:02:50.876 --> 0:02:55.956 Oh my fucking gosh, are you serious? We pointed that out? 0:02:59.836 --> 0:03:04.596 What buck God. 0:03:13.076 --> 0:03:16.836 When Leslie left Forever the Dragonfly Cafa had only been 0:03:16.876 --> 0:03:20.636 open for five months, Dad and Greg could finally look 0:03:20.636 --> 0:03:21.196 at the books. 0:03:22.316 --> 0:03:24.036 Felt like it was a bit of a relief that 0:03:24.116 --> 0:03:26.796 she was out of the way so we could start 0:03:26.836 --> 0:03:28.556 trying to work out what the fuck was going on. 0:03:29.316 --> 0:03:33.156 What Greg and Dad found wasn't pretty. The Dragonfly was 0:03:33.156 --> 0:03:36.796 in serious debt. If the business didn't get turned around quickly, 0:03:36.996 --> 0:03:40.996 the whole thing would collapse. My family pulled together to 0:03:41.076 --> 0:03:44.876 save the Dragonfly. Mum worked as a waitress, my dad 0:03:44.916 --> 0:03:47.876 behind the counter. My brother Simon and his chef mates 0:03:47.916 --> 0:03:48.996 were in the kitchen. 0:03:49.676 --> 0:03:51.996 When Mum and Dad came up. I just remember it 0:03:52.116 --> 0:03:55.956 being like whoa, and then whoa, but and then after 0:03:55.996 --> 0:03:59.076 like two or three woes. As the woes went keep 0:03:59.116 --> 0:04:01.556 on getting worse. Even though they were getting worse, it 0:04:01.596 --> 0:04:03.556 wasn't really a surprise. You're like, I wonder what the 0:04:03.556 --> 0:04:04.436 next woe is going to be. 0:04:05.356 --> 0:04:07.916 They tried their best to turn things around, but the 0:04:07.956 --> 0:04:12.556 business debts weren't getting paid down fast enough. Mum, dad 0:04:12.556 --> 0:04:14.756 and Greg were worried and they didn't want to do 0:04:14.796 --> 0:04:18.236 anything wrong, so they voluntarily handed control of the business 0:04:18.276 --> 0:04:21.596 to administrators, some suits from Auckland, whould do whatever they 0:04:21.636 --> 0:04:24.236 needed to for the debts to be repaid. It was 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:28.356 the administrators who ended up pulling the pin. The cafe, 0:04:28.476 --> 0:04:31.756 gift shop, and the house were all sold. The bank 0:04:31.956 --> 0:04:36.676 also got my family home, the house I grew up in. 0:04:39.716 --> 0:04:41.676 The day Mum and Dad were told it was all over, 0:04:42.236 --> 0:04:43.716 they went for a walk along the beach. 0:04:48.076 --> 0:04:51.476 That was a terrible time. And we were walking along 0:04:51.516 --> 0:04:55.156 the beach looking at this pew de cauetward tree and 0:04:55.236 --> 0:04:59.356 in a way sort of jokingly saying, there's a lot 0:04:59.396 --> 0:05:03.316 of foliage up there. It will be sort of where 0:05:03.356 --> 0:05:07.956 the proof we could live under this tree. We sat 0:05:08.036 --> 0:05:10.556 down on the wharf walkworth and had a little cry 0:05:10.676 --> 0:05:11.156 about it. 0:05:13.836 --> 0:05:17.156 We both sunk to our knees and sat on the wolf. 0:05:18.156 --> 0:05:28.156 We cried. We just were destroyed. We went angry. We 0:05:28.156 --> 0:05:30.236 were just destroyed. 0:05:35.956 --> 0:05:39.356 To make things worse, the global economy was going into meltdown. 0:05:40.156 --> 0:05:42.476 It was a parallel with the world economy at that 0:05:42.476 --> 0:05:45.076 time as well in the United States. 0:05:45.116 --> 0:05:47.956 Housing market has spread across the international. 0:05:47.436 --> 0:05:51.636 Stock markets around the world, embracing for a potential melt or. 0:05:51.636 --> 0:05:53.996 It just has a sharp his average and not just 0:05:54.036 --> 0:05:58.156 down the road, but right now. The Dragonfly wasn't worth 0:05:58.196 --> 0:06:00.476 what Leslie had bought it for just a few months ago. 0:06:01.196 --> 0:06:04.396 Selling it all, even including our house, didn't cover the 0:06:04.476 --> 0:06:07.996 more than one point five million dollar alone. The debt 0:06:08.036 --> 0:06:10.396 to kiwibank was short, about one hundred and fifty grand 0:06:11.956 --> 0:06:15.636 My parents had less than nothing. My Auntie Robin and 0:06:15.716 --> 0:06:18.676 Uncle Merv renovated their basement so my parents could move in. 0:06:19.836 --> 0:06:24.196 If we hadn't had the backing of families, our families, 0:06:25.796 --> 0:06:27.436 I don't know where we would have ended up. 0:06:28.236 --> 0:06:30.236 Mum and Dad even went to ask if they were 0:06:30.276 --> 0:06:32.716 eligible for any welfare payments. 0:06:32.996 --> 0:06:36.796 At one stage we went to see if we could 0:06:37.196 --> 0:06:40.716 get a flat to live in and work an Incomebrihige 0:06:40.796 --> 0:06:46.476 is so hard to deal with. We had a young 0:06:46.556 --> 0:06:51.196 lady of about twenty one. I'm only guessing it twenty 0:06:52.516 --> 0:06:54.876 She said to us, said what are we going to do? 0:06:54.996 --> 0:06:56.716 And she said, I don't know. 0:06:57.036 --> 0:06:58.276 You just got to sort it. 0:07:01.156 --> 0:07:04.076 And we've lived with that saying ever since, it's been 0:07:04.156 --> 0:07:04.596 quite good. 0:07:04.676 --> 0:07:07.356 If you don't know, you just saw that. If this 0:07:07.516 --> 0:07:09.756 was a hard time for my parents, it was even 0:07:09.876 --> 0:07:12.476 harder for Greg. He had to watch Mum and Dad 0:07:12.516 --> 0:07:14.316 get turfed out of our family home. 0:07:14.916 --> 0:07:17.676 The house that you know we all sort of spent 0:07:18.236 --> 0:07:23.196 twenty odd years as a family was well in the past. 0:07:24.116 --> 0:07:27.436 Everyone was split. I was off. I don't know where 0:07:27.476 --> 0:07:29.476 I was. I think I was flanning in Mount Eden. 0:07:30.396 --> 0:07:35.076 Simon had gone his way. Mum and Dad were living 0:07:35.636 --> 0:07:37.356 at someone else's house as well. 0:07:37.356 --> 0:07:39.396 And while all this was happening, he was coming to 0:07:39.516 --> 0:07:43.356 terms with the fact that his marriage was over. Did 0:07:43.356 --> 0:07:45.796 you miss her? I mean, like, you know, yeah I did. 0:07:46.636 --> 0:07:49.756 I sort of thought that maybe we things could be 0:07:49.836 --> 0:07:54.356 worked out and she had come back down, But then 0:07:54.676 --> 0:08:00.396 each week it got more and more out of the 0:08:00.436 --> 0:08:01.636 realms of possibilities. 0:08:01.796 --> 0:08:03.876 And does she know about everything that happened? I mean, 0:08:03.916 --> 0:08:05.556 I don't even know if she knows that the house 0:08:05.596 --> 0:08:07.676 got sold and everything. 0:08:07.916 --> 0:08:09.756 I think I probably yelled at who went on the 0:08:09.756 --> 0:08:12.556 phone and said a few things like. 0:08:12.516 --> 0:08:13.676 That, and. 0:08:14.956 --> 0:08:21.316 Yeah, yep, but obviously not the whole She didn't live it, 0:08:21.396 --> 0:08:22.916 did she, So she wouldn't know. 0:08:31.036 --> 0:08:33.116 But would it even be fair to say it was 0:08:33.196 --> 0:08:37.516 all Leslie's fault anyway? After all, my parents kicked in 0:08:37.596 --> 0:08:40.836 money to a business venture that failed. Like Dad said, 0:08:40.956 --> 0:08:44.156 they stuck their neck out, it didn't pay off. They 0:08:44.156 --> 0:08:47.476 weren't forced to back Leslie's loan. It would be fair 0:08:47.556 --> 0:08:50.316 to say that my parents and Greg were naive to 0:08:50.356 --> 0:08:53.556 put so much into the deal just on trust. They 0:08:53.596 --> 0:08:56.276 made a bad call investing in the Dragonfly, and in 0:08:56.276 --> 0:08:59.036 two thousand and eight, people all over the world were 0:08:59.036 --> 0:09:02.716 going bankrupt. But as my dad found out, This was 0:09:02.836 --> 0:09:07.436 no ordinary business failure. After everything that could be sold 0:09:07.516 --> 0:09:10.276 was gone, KII Bank sent Dad a bunch of all 0:09:10.316 --> 0:09:14.516 the documents. While this was happening, I was still living overseas. 0:09:15.316 --> 0:09:17.836 But now that I'm back and end zed, I've finally 0:09:17.876 --> 0:09:21.836 heard the crazy story about what happened when Dad started 0:09:21.916 --> 0:09:27.356 digging through that box of documents. When Kiwibank loaned one 0:09:27.396 --> 0:09:31.076 point five million dollars to Leslie, one of their conditions 0:09:31.156 --> 0:09:33.396 was Leslie had to prove she rarely had that big 0:09:33.436 --> 0:09:36.716 trust fund she always talked about. Because she was an 0:09:36.716 --> 0:09:40.796 equal partner, a guaranteur of the loan along with Greg 0:09:40.836 --> 0:09:43.316 and my parents, she was supposed to be taking on 0:09:43.436 --> 0:09:46.596 the risk of the investment alongside them. In the box 0:09:46.636 --> 0:09:49.396 of stuff from Kiwibank, there was a document Leslie had 0:09:49.396 --> 0:09:52.236 given them showing her trust fund had more than five 0:09:52.396 --> 0:09:55.156 million US dollars locked up in it. It was a 0:09:55.156 --> 0:09:56.876 statement from Bank of America. 0:09:57.156 --> 0:10:01.676 The Bank of America's statement was crucial to the bank 0:10:02.436 --> 0:10:06.876 recognizing that Leslie had funds to be able to sustain 0:10:06.996 --> 0:10:07.596 the business. 0:10:08.476 --> 0:10:11.196 Dad hadn't seen any of this when the deal was done. 0:10:11.356 --> 0:10:14.596 Leslie had her own dealings with Kiwibank, but as soon 0:10:14.636 --> 0:10:17.396 as he found this Bank of America's statement, he could 0:10:17.436 --> 0:10:21.876 tell it looked dodgy. Looking at the statement now, it's 0:10:21.956 --> 0:10:25.196 pretty sketchy. The numbers on the closing balance of more 0:10:25.236 --> 0:10:28.556 than five million sort of trail off on a slight angle. 0:10:29.476 --> 0:10:31.916 The ins and outs of the transactions don't even add 0:10:31.996 --> 0:10:35.956 up properly. The closing balance is wrong by six hundred 0:10:35.956 --> 0:10:39.516 and sixteen dollars. There's heaps of empty lines. It looks 0:10:39.676 --> 0:10:42.356 like a photocopy. It's not signed or stamped by anyone. 0:10:42.916 --> 0:10:46.556 But for Dad, things didn't raally fall into place until 0:10:46.596 --> 0:10:55.596 he stumbled on something else Leslie had left behind. When 0:10:55.636 --> 0:10:57.756 Mom and Dad moved out of our house and closed 0:10:57.836 --> 0:11:00.756 up the Dragonfly, my aunties and uncles helped pack up 0:11:00.796 --> 0:11:04.516 everything they could keep, furniture, mum's china plates that we 0:11:04.596 --> 0:11:07.796 never used. It was all squashed into a small suburban 0:11:07.836 --> 0:11:11.756 storage unit, tight square tin walls like a shed, with 0:11:11.876 --> 0:11:13.076 boxes backed to the roof. 0:11:13.836 --> 0:11:16.516 Sometimes I'd go to the store and sort of reminisce 0:11:16.556 --> 0:11:19.476 about how it was with my own stuff around me, 0:11:21.076 --> 0:11:24.636 and I was just kort of sitting in this little 0:11:24.636 --> 0:11:29.036 storeroom with all of our household goods. Everything was there 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:32.196 totally packed in and for some reason, I was just 0:11:32.236 --> 0:11:35.316 going through the drawers of this chest of draws and 0:11:35.396 --> 0:11:41.276 I found a Barclay Bank statement, and then I found 0:11:41.276 --> 0:11:45.996 a copy of the America Bank of America statement, and 0:11:46.036 --> 0:11:50.556 they looked similar. I put one on top of the 0:11:50.596 --> 0:11:55.556 other and held it up to the light and everything merged. 0:11:57.676 --> 0:12:01.916 The wording was the same, same font, same size, the 0:12:01.996 --> 0:12:05.796 barcode on it was the same, and that sort of 0:12:06.396 --> 0:12:11.276 locked it in. She had actually produced the Bank of 0:12:11.316 --> 0:12:15.356 America's statement by modifying the Barclay Bank statement. 0:12:18.196 --> 0:12:20.476 This might not have been the first time Leslie had 0:12:20.516 --> 0:12:23.596 made good use of a photocopier. Last episode, we heard 0:12:23.676 --> 0:12:27.316 someone say that Leslie had admitted to twinking out, photocopying 0:12:27.396 --> 0:12:30.196 and faking up her driving record, but this took it 0:12:30.276 --> 0:12:33.196 to another level. It looked like she had faked up 0:12:33.236 --> 0:12:36.276 a bank statement showing the balance of her trust fund. 0:12:36.916 --> 0:12:41.236 That was a fundamental wow moment for me. That was 0:12:41.436 --> 0:12:46.076 the ultimate and fraudulent activity when you present that to 0:12:46.156 --> 0:12:50.796 a bank and they accept it. I was sitting there 0:12:50.956 --> 0:12:54.876 on the stall just looking at the stuff, and it 0:12:55.036 --> 0:13:00.316 was a moment where suddenly everything seemed to fall into place. 0:13:02.076 --> 0:13:04.596 We had been done. 0:13:05.636 --> 0:13:08.196 Dad couldn't believe this hadn't been picked up, and honestly 0:13:08.316 --> 0:13:11.916 I can't either. Some people have suggested to me that 0:13:11.996 --> 0:13:15.636 Leslie would distract people with flirting, but I wondered if 0:13:15.636 --> 0:13:17.916 it was really possible. With all these professionals like at 0:13:17.916 --> 0:13:21.436 the bank, could they be influenced by that kind of thing? 0:13:21.996 --> 0:13:23.476 I asked Dad what he thought. 0:13:25.156 --> 0:13:28.996 Well, I think she certainly pursued that line with a 0:13:28.996 --> 0:13:33.476 lot of people, including the bank people. One of them, Mike, 0:13:33.596 --> 0:13:37.196 is quite astounded to see her give him a big 0:13:37.236 --> 0:13:40.756 gobby kiss. What do you mean at gobby mouth to 0:13:40.796 --> 0:13:44.836 mouth job? As we were leaving a meeting. 0:13:45.316 --> 0:13:50.036 Gobby means something different in Australia. Anyway, when my parents 0:13:50.076 --> 0:13:51.956 figured all this out, they knew that it was time 0:13:51.996 --> 0:13:53.796 to go to the bank and show them the fake 0:13:53.876 --> 0:13:56.396 documents that had been under their noses the whole time. 0:13:57.396 --> 0:13:59.596 Mom and Dad went to Kiwibank's head office in Wellington. 0:14:00.236 --> 0:14:02.436 So this guy said, look, you said, I know it's 0:14:02.556 --> 0:14:06.076 bad news, but you got to go home and live 0:14:06.116 --> 0:14:10.676 with it. And I got so angry. I said to him, 0:14:10.676 --> 0:14:13.636 you are talking about a family that have no home, 0:14:14.596 --> 0:14:17.356 and you're telling us to walk out of here. And 0:14:17.396 --> 0:14:23.516 by this stage David had presented the form showing the 0:14:23.676 --> 0:14:27.876 fraud and how easy it was to pick up, and 0:14:27.956 --> 0:14:33.556 he actually said to these manage men, he said, look 0:14:33.556 --> 0:14:36.916 at it. He said, I found it. He said, your 0:14:37.036 --> 0:14:41.356 janitors should have found it. Why didn't you find it? 0:14:41.516 --> 0:14:45.156 And what did they say? Oh? 0:14:45.236 --> 0:14:47.236 Ah? 0:14:47.316 --> 0:14:51.276 They were totally embarrassed, very very embarrassed about this. And 0:14:51.356 --> 0:14:54.276 I suddenly realized that I was in command here, and 0:14:54.316 --> 0:14:58.716 I can remember saying, now, we'll go home now, but 0:14:58.836 --> 0:15:03.196 we'll reconvene the meeting tomorrow. All right, tomorrow afternoon, I'll 0:15:03.236 --> 0:15:07.916 present you with my claim and we'll see where we 0:15:07.916 --> 0:15:10.396 go from there, right, And he said okay, So off 0:15:10.396 --> 0:15:13.836 we went, and we went off to pub and had 0:15:13.876 --> 0:15:16.996 a rub and coke and a lot of laughter because 0:15:17.036 --> 0:15:22.316 we thought, ah, fastards, we've got them. Well, it didn't 0:15:22.436 --> 0:15:23.996 quite turn out that way. 0:15:24.876 --> 0:15:27.716 Kii Bank did initially offer some compensation to Mum and Dad, 0:15:27.956 --> 0:15:31.196 but later the offer was retracted. The bank's lawyers had 0:15:31.196 --> 0:15:34.716 decided that they didn't owe Mum and Dad anything. Mum 0:15:34.716 --> 0:15:36.316 and Dad had been relying on the bank to make 0:15:36.316 --> 0:15:39.676 sure Leslie's finances were sound, but the bank basically said 0:15:39.716 --> 0:15:42.196 that they should have been doing their own checks. I 0:15:42.236 --> 0:15:45.036 wanted to talk to Kii Bank about all this, but 0:15:45.116 --> 0:15:48.236 they just said we do not comment publicly on specific 0:15:48.276 --> 0:15:50.996 consumer issues and won't be doing so in this circumstance. 0:15:57.996 --> 0:15:59.916 The person my mum and dad would usually get to 0:15:59.956 --> 0:16:02.236 help with this kind of thing was their lawyer of 0:16:02.316 --> 0:16:05.316 twenty five years. This lawyer had helped them to buy 0:16:05.356 --> 0:16:08.196 their house and help Dad set up as party higher business. 0:16:08.676 --> 0:16:11.436 But they could talk to him because back when Leslie 0:16:11.476 --> 0:16:14.476 was still in New Zealand, before this fraud had been discovered, 0:16:14.876 --> 0:16:16.076 the lawyer dumped Dad. 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:20.956 My lawyer rang and told me he had a conflict 0:16:20.996 --> 0:16:24.916 of interest situation. He was dealing with Leslie and he 0:16:24.956 --> 0:16:29.116 was dealing with us, and he saw the two starting 0:16:29.156 --> 0:16:30.036 to split apart. 0:16:30.796 --> 0:16:35.516 Did you find that ominous? You're the longest client in 0:16:35.556 --> 0:16:36.956 the scenario. Why are you going? 0:16:38.076 --> 0:16:38.276 Yes? 0:16:38.436 --> 0:16:40.556 I did think that was a bit odd. Then I 0:16:40.756 --> 0:16:46.156 thought he was obviously armored with Leslie. She was the future. 0:16:46.796 --> 0:16:49.356 We were the present, but not so much the future. 0:16:54.036 --> 0:16:54.956 We'll be right back. 0:16:56.476 --> 0:16:58.716 Not knowing where else to turn, Mum and Dad took 0:16:58.716 --> 0:17:01.156 all the documents to their local member of parliament, a 0:17:01.196 --> 0:17:04.196 guy called Rodney Hyde, and it just so happened that 0:17:04.276 --> 0:17:07.196 Rodney Hyde had quite a profile. He was the leader 0:17:07.196 --> 0:17:10.436 of a political party called Act. And he didn't just act, 0:17:11.156 --> 0:17:17.236 he also danced. The Honorable Rodney Hyde was a surprisingly 0:17:17.276 --> 0:17:20.676 popular contestant on New Zealand's Dancing with the Stars. 0:17:21.156 --> 0:17:24.636 Up next Rodney Hyde And after that first fox trot, 0:17:24.716 --> 0:17:27.556 the question is has he got a little cheeky chut 0:17:27.636 --> 0:17:28.716 chacha left in. 0:17:28.716 --> 0:17:32.716 Him dancing the chut cha? Or Rodney Hyde and Crystal 0:17:32.796 --> 0:17:34.636 Stewart please take to the floor. 0:17:35.716 --> 0:17:38.116 Mum and Dad felt like they were finally getting somewhere 0:17:38.356 --> 0:17:40.636 because Rodney Hyde took a keen interest in their case. 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:48.796 Rodney wrote a strongly worded letter to the bank suggesting 0:17:48.876 --> 0:17:51.996 that their lax checking of Leslie's documents was negligent and 0:17:52.076 --> 0:17:55.796 asked them to reverse their position, but the bank didn't budge. 0:18:00.516 --> 0:18:02.516 The only other thing my parents could do was report 0:18:02.516 --> 0:18:04.796 the whole thing to the police. 0:18:08.396 --> 0:18:11.276 You have reached the New Zealand Police non emergency line. 0:18:11.556 --> 0:18:14.076 Dad had a couple of meetings with Auckland's top fraud cop, 0:18:14.476 --> 0:18:15.076 a Welshman. 0:18:15.476 --> 0:18:18.156 So I'm Mahal Jones, I'm a detective respect at the 0:18:18.196 --> 0:18:22.356 moment at the time when this file came in. I 0:18:22.676 --> 0:18:27.316 was the acting detective senior sergeant in charge of Auckland 0:18:27.356 --> 0:18:30.876 City Fraud Squad as it was then. Certainly, if the 0:18:30.916 --> 0:18:33.676 suspect we were in New Zealand, it would be something 0:18:33.716 --> 0:18:36.756 that we would have allocated and looked at. Unfortunately, with 0:18:36.916 --> 0:18:40.516 her already having left the country ex standard practice at 0:18:40.556 --> 0:18:43.316 that point that we wouldn't take it any further. It's 0:18:43.396 --> 0:18:46.916 unfortunate that by the time this fraud, you know, or 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:49.916 the likely forward was realized, she was already well gone. 0:18:50.596 --> 0:18:53.236 But what we did do is ensure that that person 0:18:53.516 --> 0:18:55.716 has a border that placed on them, so if they 0:18:55.756 --> 0:18:57.636 were to re enter the country, I would get a 0:18:57.636 --> 0:18:59.636 notification and at that point we would look at the 0:18:59.636 --> 0:19:00.156 filer game. 0:19:00.796 --> 0:19:03.316 Unless Leslie came back to New Zealand, the cops wouldn't 0:19:03.356 --> 0:19:06.716 do anything. By skipping the country, Leslie could leave it 0:19:06.756 --> 0:19:09.556 all behind. Is it any part of the practice as 0:19:09.556 --> 0:19:12.316 well to sort of let the US authorities know that 0:19:12.356 --> 0:19:13.796 they've done something like that. 0:19:14.316 --> 0:19:17.076 I'd only do that if I really expecting to transfer 0:19:17.316 --> 0:19:20.916 a file that had sufficient evidence on it to warrant 0:19:20.916 --> 0:19:24.396 an investigation. In America, a lot of fraud files is 0:19:24.636 --> 0:19:26.436 to get to that level you actually need to speak 0:19:26.476 --> 0:19:29.836 to the suspect. Because you're looking at bank accounts, a 0:19:29.876 --> 0:19:33.476 handwriting samples to get to that point. It's quite a 0:19:33.516 --> 0:19:33.956 long road. 0:19:34.756 --> 0:19:38.276 It seems like kind of a loop. With Leslie gone, 0:19:38.356 --> 0:19:42.636 they couldn't investigate her, but without an investigation in New Zealand, 0:19:42.796 --> 0:19:46.476 they couldn't tell the US. Therefore, no one was going 0:19:46.516 --> 0:19:50.436 to investigate. But what all this meant was pretty simple. 0:19:51.036 --> 0:19:54.996 Even if Leslie had committed blatant fraud, she was gonna 0:19:55.036 --> 0:20:04.956 get away with it. As Dad and the administrators kept 0:20:04.996 --> 0:20:09.076 investigating what happened at the Dragonfly, they found more shady surprises. 0:20:09.836 --> 0:20:13.196 One of the administrators somehow found out that Leslie had 0:20:13.196 --> 0:20:16.716 been hit with charges relating to check fraud in the US, 0:20:17.356 --> 0:20:21.076 and she had a conviction. Dad also found records showing 0:20:21.156 --> 0:20:24.636 something really dodgy. Not long after he had put an 0:20:24.756 --> 0:20:28.036 eye watering seventy five grand in an account for Leslie 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:31.676 to set up the Dragonfly, she sent over twenty grand 0:20:31.876 --> 0:20:35.356 to her parents in the US, and that was before 0:20:35.396 --> 0:20:42.316 the business had even opened. Greg tried to confront Leslie 0:20:42.356 --> 0:20:45.796 about all this, but according to Greg, she continued to 0:20:45.796 --> 0:20:48.676 blame the failure of the Dragonfly on Mum and dad 0:20:48.836 --> 0:20:52.956 and Greg meddling in the business. Mum and dad wanted 0:20:52.996 --> 0:20:58.636 answers from Leslie's parents. They tried calling, and then Leslie's dad, 0:20:58.636 --> 0:21:02.916 Andrew replied by email, this isn't his real voice. 0:21:03.876 --> 0:21:05.796 I felt it would be better to respond to you 0:21:05.876 --> 0:21:08.516 via email as I have difficulty most of the time 0:21:08.596 --> 0:21:11.756 understanding the key we accent, and I apologize for that. 0:21:12.876 --> 0:21:15.876 We are extremely sorry for the situation everyone is in. 0:21:16.636 --> 0:21:19.276 Betty has been praying for a turnaround of the situation, 0:21:19.956 --> 0:21:22.996 and we all do care about your welfare and success. 0:21:23.716 --> 0:21:25.916 But he goes on to say stuff like the cafe 0:21:25.916 --> 0:21:27.596 should never have been sold. 0:21:28.316 --> 0:21:30.556 We feel that you should have received advice from at 0:21:30.636 --> 0:21:34.516 least three or four different experts. There are many brokers 0:21:34.556 --> 0:21:36.196 out there that at least would have given you the 0:21:36.236 --> 0:21:40.516 option to refinance. Your main concern seems to be that 0:21:40.596 --> 0:21:43.636 Leslie was not properly regretful of her contributions to the 0:21:43.676 --> 0:21:47.196 failure of the business. However, I am not sure what 0:21:47.316 --> 0:21:51.436 gave you this impression. As far as our empathy for you, 0:21:51.996 --> 0:21:53.996 it is more than you realize. 0:21:55.196 --> 0:21:57.996 He sees they don't appreciate my mom and dad blaming 0:21:57.996 --> 0:22:00.116 the loss of their home on Lesley. 0:22:00.236 --> 0:22:02.676 You are an adult who has had your own businesses 0:22:02.716 --> 0:22:04.996 in the past, and you must have known the risk 0:22:05.076 --> 0:22:06.596 involved in this type of business. 0:22:07.236 --> 0:22:10.036 Fear enough, Dead new the risks. But based on Leslie 0:22:10.076 --> 0:22:12.436 saying she had her trust fund to back everything up, 0:22:14.156 --> 0:22:17.236 here's the strange thing. It seems like Betty and Andrew 0:22:17.276 --> 0:22:20.676 think Leslie's trust fund is real, or at least they're 0:22:20.716 --> 0:22:22.676 trying to convince my parents it's real. 0:22:24.356 --> 0:22:27.356 Unfortunately, she does not have the freedom to access her 0:22:27.396 --> 0:22:29.956 trust fund for any amounts to help the Dragonfly with 0:22:29.996 --> 0:22:33.756 the financial distress it was in. Leslie does not have 0:22:33.836 --> 0:22:37.676 control of this trust fund, nor do we. I want 0:22:37.676 --> 0:22:40.156 to reiterate that we do not want to be involved 0:22:40.156 --> 0:22:43.356 in any way whatsoever and would appreciate being left out 0:22:43.396 --> 0:22:47.636 of this situation. Sincerely, Andrew. 0:22:48.516 --> 0:22:51.516 Despite the evidence that shows Leslie sending money to Andrew, 0:22:51.796 --> 0:22:54.076 when my dad reached out to them, it was pretty 0:22:54.076 --> 0:22:56.436 clear they didn't want a bar of the whole situation. 0:22:57.556 --> 0:23:01.436 Leslie warned Greg not to send the documents to her parents, 0:23:01.876 --> 0:23:06.076 but then Mum and dad did exactly that. They emailed 0:23:06.076 --> 0:23:10.436 Betty and Andrew with attachments showing evidence of fraudulent documents 0:23:10.916 --> 0:23:14.076 and money transfers to them in the US. 0:23:14.596 --> 0:23:18.956 Andrew and Betty some facts. Shortly after the bank loan 0:23:18.996 --> 0:23:23.716 for the business and startup funding was obtained, Leslie transferred 0:23:23.836 --> 0:23:27.516 US twelve five hundred dollars to you on the twenty 0:23:27.516 --> 0:23:31.436 fifth of September. Our conclusion is that you both had 0:23:31.556 --> 0:23:34.476 knowledge of what was happening, and we're a party to 0:23:34.556 --> 0:23:35.116 the deceit. 0:23:39.836 --> 0:23:43.076 Not long after my dad sent that email, Leslie wrote 0:23:43.076 --> 0:23:47.596 to Greg asking for a divorce. She said it was 0:23:47.636 --> 0:23:52.356 the last straw. I read some of what Leslie said 0:23:52.396 --> 0:23:55.836 to Greg. He hadn't seen this divorce letter in over 0:23:55.876 --> 0:23:58.636 a decade, Like I just want to read some of 0:23:58.636 --> 0:24:04.156 this letter to you. It says, dere Greg, I'm filing 0:24:04.196 --> 0:24:06.876 for dissolution of our marriage and would appreciate your signature 0:24:06.916 --> 0:24:09.516 as soon as possible. I am sorry that things have 0:24:09.636 --> 0:24:10.516 ended this way. 0:24:11.956 --> 0:24:12.796 It's just all crap. 0:24:15.276 --> 0:24:20.196 There's one particular paragraph here, which is I am sorry 0:24:20.196 --> 0:24:22.476 that now you will never really know what was real 0:24:22.556 --> 0:24:24.676 or not? Oh, what was real or not? But I 0:24:24.756 --> 0:24:26.876 kept asking and pleading not to push and allow me 0:24:26.956 --> 0:24:28.596 to do things on my terms. 0:24:28.516 --> 0:24:31.116 And allow me to do things on my terms, but 0:24:31.716 --> 0:24:34.516 you just didn't trust me enough to let me finish 0:24:34.516 --> 0:24:35.356