1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,836 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,436 --> 00:00:21,876 Speaker 2: Hey, it's Jake. Before we get into this episode, I 3 00:00:21,916 --> 00:00:24,076 Speaker 2: want to let you know that you can hear more 4 00:00:24,196 --> 00:00:28,116 Speaker 2: ad free episodes from Snowball before the release to the 5 00:00:28,116 --> 00:00:32,236 Speaker 2: public by signing up for Pushkin Plus. In addition to 6 00:00:32,236 --> 00:00:37,596 Speaker 2: supporting narrative storytelling, you'll also get bonus episodes, full audio books, 7 00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:41,716 Speaker 2: and binge's from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Fine 8 00:00:41,796 --> 00:00:44,916 Speaker 2: Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover show page on Apple 9 00:00:44,956 --> 00:00:50,436 Speaker 2: Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm, slash Plus. Let's get 10 00:00:50,436 --> 00:00:50,836 Speaker 2: into it. 11 00:00:53,196 --> 00:00:57,596 Speaker 3: This episode contains occasional course language, and we've used some 12 00:00:57,756 --> 00:01:02,996 Speaker 3: voice actors to bring emails to life. The last time 13 00:01:03,036 --> 00:01:07,196 Speaker 3: my brother saw Leslie Minouchian, she was getting on a plane. 14 00:01:07,956 --> 00:01:10,076 Speaker 3: He thought she was just taking a holiday to see 15 00:01:10,076 --> 00:01:13,836 Speaker 3: her family in the US. But just before Leslie turned 16 00:01:13,836 --> 00:01:17,476 Speaker 3: to go through the gate, she said those words, the 17 00:01:17,596 --> 00:01:19,836 Speaker 3: snowball was about to hit you. 18 00:01:20,916 --> 00:01:23,116 Speaker 4: And Greg was so shell shocked. 19 00:01:23,356 --> 00:01:27,156 Speaker 5: We didn't really know what that meant. No, well, how 20 00:01:27,316 --> 00:01:32,676 Speaker 5: would manifest itself? What snowball? 21 00:01:32,756 --> 00:01:35,236 Speaker 3: Within a couple of months, my parents had lost more 22 00:01:35,276 --> 00:01:40,396 Speaker 3: than a million dollars, their home and their retirement, and 23 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:46,116 Speaker 3: Greg was heartbroken. As paperwork surfaced from the failed Dragonfly Cafa. 24 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:49,756 Speaker 3: Dad started to find some hectic stuff that didn't make sense. 25 00:01:50,956 --> 00:01:53,556 Speaker 3: Leslie Minuchi and had left behind a trail of clues 26 00:01:53,596 --> 00:01:56,676 Speaker 3: about what she had done, and the more my Dad discovered, 27 00:01:57,036 --> 00:02:01,236 Speaker 3: the more obsessed he got about investigating. Dad even sort 28 00:02:01,276 --> 00:02:04,236 Speaker 3: of turned himself into a sixty something year old hacker, 29 00:02:05,156 --> 00:02:08,716 Speaker 3: and he eventually uncovered a web of deception so strange 30 00:02:09,196 --> 00:02:13,916 Speaker 3: that it's kind of funny. Welcome to Unravel season four. 31 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:17,196 Speaker 3: I'm Molly Wards and this is Snowball. 32 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:21,756 Speaker 6: I need to clear this up. 33 00:02:21,916 --> 00:02:23,556 Speaker 3: Don't call yourself Houdini. 34 00:02:23,676 --> 00:02:26,756 Speaker 5: Held it up to the light and everything merged. 35 00:02:27,076 --> 00:02:29,276 Speaker 7: That person has a border placed on it. 36 00:02:29,596 --> 00:02:31,316 Speaker 8: It's just like a finger and it it's a big 37 00:02:31,356 --> 00:02:33,076 Speaker 8: metal phone. 38 00:02:41,716 --> 00:02:47,076 Speaker 3: It's so weird. That is weird. It is weird. 39 00:02:50,876 --> 00:02:55,956 Speaker 9: Oh my fucking gosh, are you serious? We pointed that out? 40 00:02:59,836 --> 00:03:04,596 Speaker 5: What buck God. 41 00:03:13,076 --> 00:03:16,836 Speaker 3: When Leslie left Forever the Dragonfly Cafa had only been 42 00:03:16,876 --> 00:03:20,636 Speaker 3: open for five months, Dad and Greg could finally look 43 00:03:20,636 --> 00:03:21,196 Speaker 3: at the books. 44 00:03:22,316 --> 00:03:24,036 Speaker 10: Felt like it was a bit of a relief that 45 00:03:24,116 --> 00:03:26,796 Speaker 10: she was out of the way so we could start 46 00:03:26,836 --> 00:03:28,556 Speaker 10: trying to work out what the fuck was going on. 47 00:03:29,316 --> 00:03:33,156 Speaker 3: What Greg and Dad found wasn't pretty. The Dragonfly was 48 00:03:33,156 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 3: in serious debt. If the business didn't get turned around quickly, 49 00:03:36,996 --> 00:03:40,996 Speaker 3: the whole thing would collapse. My family pulled together to 50 00:03:41,076 --> 00:03:44,876 Speaker 3: save the Dragonfly. Mum worked as a waitress, my dad 51 00:03:44,916 --> 00:03:47,876 Speaker 3: behind the counter. My brother Simon and his chef mates 52 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:48,996 Speaker 3: were in the kitchen. 53 00:03:49,676 --> 00:03:51,996 Speaker 8: When Mum and Dad came up. I just remember it 54 00:03:52,116 --> 00:03:55,956 Speaker 8: being like whoa, and then whoa, but and then after 55 00:03:55,996 --> 00:03:59,076 Speaker 8: like two or three woes. As the woes went keep 56 00:03:59,116 --> 00:04:01,556 Speaker 8: on getting worse. Even though they were getting worse, it 57 00:04:01,596 --> 00:04:03,556 Speaker 8: wasn't really a surprise. You're like, I wonder what the 58 00:04:03,556 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 8: next woe is going to be. 59 00:04:05,356 --> 00:04:07,916 Speaker 3: They tried their best to turn things around, but the 60 00:04:07,956 --> 00:04:12,556 Speaker 3: business debts weren't getting paid down fast enough. Mum, dad 61 00:04:12,556 --> 00:04:14,756 Speaker 3: and Greg were worried and they didn't want to do 62 00:04:14,796 --> 00:04:18,236 Speaker 3: anything wrong, so they voluntarily handed control of the business 63 00:04:18,276 --> 00:04:21,596 Speaker 3: to administrators, some suits from Auckland, whould do whatever they 64 00:04:21,636 --> 00:04:24,236 Speaker 3: needed to for the debts to be repaid. It was 65 00:04:24,276 --> 00:04:28,356 Speaker 3: the administrators who ended up pulling the pin. The cafe, 66 00:04:28,476 --> 00:04:31,756 Speaker 3: gift shop, and the house were all sold. The bank 67 00:04:31,956 --> 00:04:36,676 Speaker 3: also got my family home, the house I grew up in. 68 00:04:39,716 --> 00:04:41,676 Speaker 3: The day Mum and Dad were told it was all over, 69 00:04:42,236 --> 00:04:43,716 Speaker 3: they went for a walk along the beach. 70 00:04:48,076 --> 00:04:51,476 Speaker 5: That was a terrible time. And we were walking along 71 00:04:51,516 --> 00:04:55,156 Speaker 5: the beach looking at this pew de cauetward tree and 72 00:04:55,236 --> 00:04:59,356 Speaker 5: in a way sort of jokingly saying, there's a lot 73 00:04:59,396 --> 00:05:03,316 Speaker 5: of foliage up there. It will be sort of where 74 00:05:03,356 --> 00:05:07,956 Speaker 5: the proof we could live under this tree. We sat 75 00:05:08,036 --> 00:05:10,556 Speaker 5: down on the wharf walkworth and had a little cry 76 00:05:10,676 --> 00:05:11,156 Speaker 5: about it. 77 00:05:13,836 --> 00:05:17,156 Speaker 4: We both sunk to our knees and sat on the wolf. 78 00:05:18,156 --> 00:05:28,156 Speaker 4: We cried. We just were destroyed. We went angry. We 79 00:05:28,156 --> 00:05:30,236 Speaker 4: were just destroyed. 80 00:05:35,956 --> 00:05:39,356 Speaker 3: To make things worse, the global economy was going into meltdown. 81 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:42,476 Speaker 10: It was a parallel with the world economy at that 82 00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:45,076 Speaker 10: time as well in the United States. 83 00:05:45,116 --> 00:05:47,956 Speaker 4: Housing market has spread across the international. 84 00:05:47,436 --> 00:05:51,636 Speaker 5: Stock markets around the world, embracing for a potential melt or. 85 00:05:51,636 --> 00:05:53,996 Speaker 3: It just has a sharp his average and not just 86 00:05:54,036 --> 00:05:58,156 Speaker 3: down the road, but right now. The Dragonfly wasn't worth 87 00:05:58,196 --> 00:06:00,476 Speaker 3: what Leslie had bought it for just a few months ago. 88 00:06:01,196 --> 00:06:04,396 Speaker 3: Selling it all, even including our house, didn't cover the 89 00:06:04,476 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 3: more than one point five million dollar alone. The debt 90 00:06:08,036 --> 00:06:10,396 Speaker 3: to kiwibank was short, about one hundred and fifty grand 91 00:06:11,956 --> 00:06:15,636 Speaker 3: My parents had less than nothing. My Auntie Robin and 92 00:06:15,716 --> 00:06:18,676 Speaker 3: Uncle Merv renovated their basement so my parents could move in. 93 00:06:19,836 --> 00:06:24,196 Speaker 4: If we hadn't had the backing of families, our families, 94 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:27,436 Speaker 4: I don't know where we would have ended up. 95 00:06:28,236 --> 00:06:30,236 Speaker 3: Mum and Dad even went to ask if they were 96 00:06:30,276 --> 00:06:32,716 Speaker 3: eligible for any welfare payments. 97 00:06:32,996 --> 00:06:36,796 Speaker 4: At one stage we went to see if we could 98 00:06:37,196 --> 00:06:40,716 Speaker 4: get a flat to live in and work an Incomebrihige 99 00:06:40,796 --> 00:06:46,476 Speaker 4: is so hard to deal with. We had a young 100 00:06:46,556 --> 00:06:51,196 Speaker 4: lady of about twenty one. I'm only guessing it twenty 101 00:06:52,516 --> 00:06:54,876 Speaker 4: She said to us, said what are we going to do? 102 00:06:54,996 --> 00:06:56,716 Speaker 4: And she said, I don't know. 103 00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:58,276 Speaker 3: You just got to sort it. 104 00:07:01,156 --> 00:07:04,076 Speaker 4: And we've lived with that saying ever since, it's been 105 00:07:04,156 --> 00:07:04,596 Speaker 4: quite good. 106 00:07:04,676 --> 00:07:07,356 Speaker 3: If you don't know, you just saw that. If this 107 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:09,756 Speaker 3: was a hard time for my parents, it was even 108 00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:12,476 Speaker 3: harder for Greg. He had to watch Mum and Dad 109 00:07:12,516 --> 00:07:14,316 Speaker 3: get turfed out of our family home. 110 00:07:14,916 --> 00:07:17,676 Speaker 10: The house that you know we all sort of spent 111 00:07:18,236 --> 00:07:23,196 Speaker 10: twenty odd years as a family was well in the past. 112 00:07:24,116 --> 00:07:27,436 Speaker 10: Everyone was split. I was off. I don't know where 113 00:07:27,476 --> 00:07:29,476 Speaker 10: I was. I think I was flanning in Mount Eden. 114 00:07:30,396 --> 00:07:35,076 Speaker 10: Simon had gone his way. Mum and Dad were living 115 00:07:35,636 --> 00:07:37,356 Speaker 10: at someone else's house as well. 116 00:07:37,356 --> 00:07:39,396 Speaker 3: And while all this was happening, he was coming to 117 00:07:39,516 --> 00:07:43,356 Speaker 3: terms with the fact that his marriage was over. Did 118 00:07:43,356 --> 00:07:45,796 Speaker 3: you miss her? I mean, like, you know, yeah I did. 119 00:07:46,636 --> 00:07:49,756 Speaker 10: I sort of thought that maybe we things could be 120 00:07:49,836 --> 00:07:54,356 Speaker 10: worked out and she had come back down, But then 121 00:07:54,676 --> 00:08:00,396 Speaker 10: each week it got more and more out of the 122 00:08:00,436 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 10: realms of possibilities. 123 00:08:01,796 --> 00:08:03,876 Speaker 3: And does she know about everything that happened? I mean, 124 00:08:03,916 --> 00:08:05,556 Speaker 3: I don't even know if she knows that the house 125 00:08:05,596 --> 00:08:07,676 Speaker 3: got sold and everything. 126 00:08:07,916 --> 00:08:09,756 Speaker 10: I think I probably yelled at who went on the 127 00:08:09,756 --> 00:08:12,556 Speaker 10: phone and said a few things like. 128 00:08:12,516 --> 00:08:13,676 Speaker 3: That, and. 129 00:08:14,956 --> 00:08:21,316 Speaker 10: Yeah, yep, but obviously not the whole She didn't live it, 130 00:08:21,396 --> 00:08:22,916 Speaker 10: did she, So she wouldn't know. 131 00:08:31,036 --> 00:08:33,116 Speaker 3: But would it even be fair to say it was 132 00:08:33,196 --> 00:08:37,516 Speaker 3: all Leslie's fault anyway? After all, my parents kicked in 133 00:08:37,596 --> 00:08:40,836 Speaker 3: money to a business venture that failed. Like Dad said, 134 00:08:40,956 --> 00:08:44,156 Speaker 3: they stuck their neck out, it didn't pay off. They 135 00:08:44,156 --> 00:08:47,476 Speaker 3: weren't forced to back Leslie's loan. It would be fair 136 00:08:47,556 --> 00:08:50,316 Speaker 3: to say that my parents and Greg were naive to 137 00:08:50,356 --> 00:08:53,556 Speaker 3: put so much into the deal just on trust. They 138 00:08:53,596 --> 00:08:56,276 Speaker 3: made a bad call investing in the Dragonfly, and in 139 00:08:56,276 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, people all over the world were 140 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:02,716 Speaker 3: going bankrupt. But as my dad found out, This was 141 00:09:02,836 --> 00:09:07,436 Speaker 3: no ordinary business failure. After everything that could be sold 142 00:09:07,516 --> 00:09:10,276 Speaker 3: was gone, KII Bank sent Dad a bunch of all 143 00:09:10,316 --> 00:09:14,516 Speaker 3: the documents. While this was happening, I was still living overseas. 144 00:09:15,316 --> 00:09:17,836 Speaker 3: But now that I'm back and end zed, I've finally 145 00:09:17,876 --> 00:09:21,836 Speaker 3: heard the crazy story about what happened when Dad started 146 00:09:21,916 --> 00:09:27,356 Speaker 3: digging through that box of documents. When Kiwibank loaned one 147 00:09:27,396 --> 00:09:31,076 Speaker 3: point five million dollars to Leslie, one of their conditions 148 00:09:31,156 --> 00:09:33,396 Speaker 3: was Leslie had to prove she rarely had that big 149 00:09:33,436 --> 00:09:36,716 Speaker 3: trust fund she always talked about. Because she was an 150 00:09:36,716 --> 00:09:40,796 Speaker 3: equal partner, a guaranteur of the loan along with Greg 151 00:09:40,836 --> 00:09:43,316 Speaker 3: and my parents, she was supposed to be taking on 152 00:09:43,436 --> 00:09:46,596 Speaker 3: the risk of the investment alongside them. In the box 153 00:09:46,636 --> 00:09:49,396 Speaker 3: of stuff from Kiwibank, there was a document Leslie had 154 00:09:49,396 --> 00:09:52,236 Speaker 3: given them showing her trust fund had more than five 155 00:09:52,396 --> 00:09:55,156 Speaker 3: million US dollars locked up in it. It was a 156 00:09:55,156 --> 00:09:56,876 Speaker 3: statement from Bank of America. 157 00:09:57,156 --> 00:10:01,676 Speaker 5: The Bank of America's statement was crucial to the bank 158 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:06,876 Speaker 5: recognizing that Leslie had funds to be able to sustain 159 00:10:06,996 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 5: the business. 160 00:10:08,476 --> 00:10:11,196 Speaker 3: Dad hadn't seen any of this when the deal was done. 161 00:10:11,356 --> 00:10:14,596 Speaker 3: Leslie had her own dealings with Kiwibank, but as soon 162 00:10:14,636 --> 00:10:17,396 Speaker 3: as he found this Bank of America's statement, he could 163 00:10:17,436 --> 00:10:21,876 Speaker 3: tell it looked dodgy. Looking at the statement now, it's 164 00:10:21,956 --> 00:10:25,196 Speaker 3: pretty sketchy. The numbers on the closing balance of more 165 00:10:25,236 --> 00:10:28,556 Speaker 3: than five million sort of trail off on a slight angle. 166 00:10:29,476 --> 00:10:31,916 Speaker 3: The ins and outs of the transactions don't even add 167 00:10:31,996 --> 00:10:35,956 Speaker 3: up properly. The closing balance is wrong by six hundred 168 00:10:35,956 --> 00:10:39,516 Speaker 3: and sixteen dollars. There's heaps of empty lines. It looks 169 00:10:39,676 --> 00:10:42,356 Speaker 3: like a photocopy. It's not signed or stamped by anyone. 170 00:10:42,916 --> 00:10:46,556 Speaker 3: But for Dad, things didn't raally fall into place until 171 00:10:46,596 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 3: he stumbled on something else Leslie had left behind. When 172 00:10:55,636 --> 00:10:57,756 Speaker 3: Mom and Dad moved out of our house and closed 173 00:10:57,836 --> 00:11:00,756 Speaker 3: up the Dragonfly, my aunties and uncles helped pack up 174 00:11:00,796 --> 00:11:04,516 Speaker 3: everything they could keep, furniture, mum's china plates that we 175 00:11:04,596 --> 00:11:07,796 Speaker 3: never used. It was all squashed into a small suburban 176 00:11:07,836 --> 00:11:11,756 Speaker 3: storage unit, tight square tin walls like a shed, with 177 00:11:11,876 --> 00:11:13,076 Speaker 3: boxes backed to the roof. 178 00:11:13,836 --> 00:11:16,516 Speaker 5: Sometimes I'd go to the store and sort of reminisce 179 00:11:16,556 --> 00:11:19,476 Speaker 5: about how it was with my own stuff around me, 180 00:11:21,076 --> 00:11:24,636 Speaker 5: and I was just kort of sitting in this little 181 00:11:24,636 --> 00:11:29,036 Speaker 5: storeroom with all of our household goods. Everything was there 182 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:32,196 Speaker 5: totally packed in and for some reason, I was just 183 00:11:32,236 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 5: going through the drawers of this chest of draws and 184 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:41,276 Speaker 5: I found a Barclay Bank statement, and then I found 185 00:11:41,276 --> 00:11:45,996 Speaker 5: a copy of the America Bank of America statement, and 186 00:11:46,036 --> 00:11:50,556 Speaker 5: they looked similar. I put one on top of the 187 00:11:50,596 --> 00:11:55,556 Speaker 5: other and held it up to the light and everything merged. 188 00:11:57,676 --> 00:12:01,916 Speaker 5: The wording was the same, same font, same size, the 189 00:12:01,996 --> 00:12:05,796 Speaker 5: barcode on it was the same, and that sort of 190 00:12:06,396 --> 00:12:11,276 Speaker 5: locked it in. She had actually produced the Bank of 191 00:12:11,316 --> 00:12:15,356 Speaker 5: America's statement by modifying the Barclay Bank statement. 192 00:12:18,196 --> 00:12:20,476 Speaker 3: This might not have been the first time Leslie had 193 00:12:20,516 --> 00:12:23,596 Speaker 3: made good use of a photocopier. Last episode, we heard 194 00:12:23,676 --> 00:12:27,316 Speaker 3: someone say that Leslie had admitted to twinking out, photocopying 195 00:12:27,396 --> 00:12:30,196 Speaker 3: and faking up her driving record, but this took it 196 00:12:30,276 --> 00:12:33,196 Speaker 3: to another level. It looked like she had faked up 197 00:12:33,236 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 3: a bank statement showing the balance of her trust fund. 198 00:12:36,916 --> 00:12:41,236 Speaker 5: That was a fundamental wow moment for me. That was 199 00:12:41,436 --> 00:12:46,076 Speaker 5: the ultimate and fraudulent activity when you present that to 200 00:12:46,156 --> 00:12:50,796 Speaker 5: a bank and they accept it. I was sitting there 201 00:12:50,956 --> 00:12:54,876 Speaker 5: on the stall just looking at the stuff, and it 202 00:12:55,036 --> 00:13:00,316 Speaker 5: was a moment where suddenly everything seemed to fall into place. 203 00:13:02,076 --> 00:13:04,596 Speaker 5: We had been done. 204 00:13:05,636 --> 00:13:08,196 Speaker 3: Dad couldn't believe this hadn't been picked up, and honestly 205 00:13:08,316 --> 00:13:11,916 Speaker 3: I can't either. Some people have suggested to me that 206 00:13:11,996 --> 00:13:15,636 Speaker 3: Leslie would distract people with flirting, but I wondered if 207 00:13:15,636 --> 00:13:17,916 Speaker 3: it was really possible. With all these professionals like at 208 00:13:17,916 --> 00:13:21,436 Speaker 3: the bank, could they be influenced by that kind of thing? 209 00:13:21,996 --> 00:13:23,476 Speaker 3: I asked Dad what he thought. 210 00:13:25,156 --> 00:13:28,996 Speaker 5: Well, I think she certainly pursued that line with a 211 00:13:28,996 --> 00:13:33,476 Speaker 5: lot of people, including the bank people. One of them, Mike, 212 00:13:33,596 --> 00:13:37,196 Speaker 5: is quite astounded to see her give him a big 213 00:13:37,236 --> 00:13:40,756 Speaker 5: gobby kiss. What do you mean at gobby mouth to 214 00:13:40,796 --> 00:13:44,836 Speaker 5: mouth job? As we were leaving a meeting. 215 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:50,036 Speaker 3: Gobby means something different in Australia. Anyway, when my parents 216 00:13:50,076 --> 00:13:51,956 Speaker 3: figured all this out, they knew that it was time 217 00:13:51,996 --> 00:13:53,796 Speaker 3: to go to the bank and show them the fake 218 00:13:53,876 --> 00:13:56,396 Speaker 3: documents that had been under their noses the whole time. 219 00:13:57,396 --> 00:13:59,596 Speaker 3: Mom and Dad went to Kiwibank's head office in Wellington. 220 00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:02,436 Speaker 4: So this guy said, look, you said, I know it's 221 00:14:02,556 --> 00:14:06,076 Speaker 4: bad news, but you got to go home and live 222 00:14:06,116 --> 00:14:10,676 Speaker 4: with it. And I got so angry. I said to him, 223 00:14:10,676 --> 00:14:13,636 Speaker 4: you are talking about a family that have no home, 224 00:14:14,596 --> 00:14:17,356 Speaker 4: and you're telling us to walk out of here. And 225 00:14:17,396 --> 00:14:23,516 Speaker 4: by this stage David had presented the form showing the 226 00:14:23,676 --> 00:14:27,876 Speaker 4: fraud and how easy it was to pick up, and 227 00:14:27,956 --> 00:14:33,556 Speaker 4: he actually said to these manage men, he said, look 228 00:14:33,556 --> 00:14:36,916 Speaker 4: at it. He said, I found it. He said, your 229 00:14:37,036 --> 00:14:41,356 Speaker 4: janitors should have found it. Why didn't you find it? 230 00:14:41,516 --> 00:14:45,156 Speaker 3: And what did they say? Oh? 231 00:14:45,236 --> 00:14:47,236 Speaker 4: Ah? 232 00:14:47,316 --> 00:14:51,276 Speaker 5: They were totally embarrassed, very very embarrassed about this. And 233 00:14:51,356 --> 00:14:54,276 Speaker 5: I suddenly realized that I was in command here, and 234 00:14:54,316 --> 00:14:58,716 Speaker 5: I can remember saying, now, we'll go home now, but 235 00:14:58,836 --> 00:15:03,196 Speaker 5: we'll reconvene the meeting tomorrow. All right, tomorrow afternoon, I'll 236 00:15:03,236 --> 00:15:07,916 Speaker 5: present you with my claim and we'll see where we 237 00:15:07,916 --> 00:15:10,396 Speaker 5: go from there, right, And he said okay, So off 238 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:13,836 Speaker 5: we went, and we went off to pub and had 239 00:15:13,876 --> 00:15:16,996 Speaker 5: a rub and coke and a lot of laughter because 240 00:15:17,036 --> 00:15:22,316 Speaker 5: we thought, ah, fastards, we've got them. Well, it didn't 241 00:15:22,436 --> 00:15:23,996 Speaker 5: quite turn out that way. 242 00:15:24,876 --> 00:15:27,716 Speaker 3: Kii Bank did initially offer some compensation to Mum and Dad, 243 00:15:27,956 --> 00:15:31,196 Speaker 3: but later the offer was retracted. The bank's lawyers had 244 00:15:31,196 --> 00:15:34,716 Speaker 3: decided that they didn't owe Mum and Dad anything. Mum 245 00:15:34,716 --> 00:15:36,316 Speaker 3: and Dad had been relying on the bank to make 246 00:15:36,316 --> 00:15:39,676 Speaker 3: sure Leslie's finances were sound, but the bank basically said 247 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:42,196 Speaker 3: that they should have been doing their own checks. I 248 00:15:42,236 --> 00:15:45,036 Speaker 3: wanted to talk to Kii Bank about all this, but 249 00:15:45,116 --> 00:15:48,236 Speaker 3: they just said we do not comment publicly on specific 250 00:15:48,276 --> 00:15:50,996 Speaker 3: consumer issues and won't be doing so in this circumstance. 251 00:15:57,996 --> 00:15:59,916 Speaker 3: The person my mum and dad would usually get to 252 00:15:59,956 --> 00:16:02,236 Speaker 3: help with this kind of thing was their lawyer of 253 00:16:02,316 --> 00:16:05,316 Speaker 3: twenty five years. This lawyer had helped them to buy 254 00:16:05,356 --> 00:16:08,196 Speaker 3: their house and help Dad set up as party higher business. 255 00:16:08,676 --> 00:16:11,436 Speaker 3: But they could talk to him because back when Leslie 256 00:16:11,476 --> 00:16:14,476 Speaker 3: was still in New Zealand, before this fraud had been discovered, 257 00:16:14,876 --> 00:16:16,076 Speaker 3: the lawyer dumped Dad. 258 00:16:16,876 --> 00:16:20,956 Speaker 5: My lawyer rang and told me he had a conflict 259 00:16:20,996 --> 00:16:24,916 Speaker 5: of interest situation. He was dealing with Leslie and he 260 00:16:24,956 --> 00:16:29,116 Speaker 5: was dealing with us, and he saw the two starting 261 00:16:29,156 --> 00:16:30,036 Speaker 5: to split apart. 262 00:16:30,796 --> 00:16:35,516 Speaker 3: Did you find that ominous? You're the longest client in 263 00:16:35,556 --> 00:16:36,956 Speaker 3: the scenario. Why are you going? 264 00:16:38,076 --> 00:16:38,276 Speaker 7: Yes? 265 00:16:38,436 --> 00:16:40,556 Speaker 5: I did think that was a bit odd. Then I 266 00:16:40,756 --> 00:16:46,156 Speaker 5: thought he was obviously armored with Leslie. She was the future. 267 00:16:46,796 --> 00:16:49,356 Speaker 5: We were the present, but not so much the future. 268 00:16:54,036 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 269 00:16:56,476 --> 00:16:58,716 Speaker 3: Not knowing where else to turn, Mum and Dad took 270 00:16:58,716 --> 00:17:01,156 Speaker 3: all the documents to their local member of parliament, a 271 00:17:01,196 --> 00:17:04,196 Speaker 3: guy called Rodney Hyde, and it just so happened that 272 00:17:04,276 --> 00:17:07,196 Speaker 3: Rodney Hyde had quite a profile. He was the leader 273 00:17:07,196 --> 00:17:10,436 Speaker 3: of a political party called Act. And he didn't just act, 274 00:17:11,156 --> 00:17:17,236 Speaker 3: he also danced. The Honorable Rodney Hyde was a surprisingly 275 00:17:17,276 --> 00:17:20,676 Speaker 3: popular contestant on New Zealand's Dancing with the Stars. 276 00:17:21,156 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 4: Up next Rodney Hyde And after that first fox trot, 277 00:17:24,716 --> 00:17:27,556 Speaker 4: the question is has he got a little cheeky chut 278 00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:28,716 Speaker 4: chacha left in. 279 00:17:28,716 --> 00:17:32,716 Speaker 5: Him dancing the chut cha? Or Rodney Hyde and Crystal 280 00:17:32,796 --> 00:17:34,636 Speaker 5: Stewart please take to the floor. 281 00:17:35,716 --> 00:17:38,116 Speaker 3: Mum and Dad felt like they were finally getting somewhere 282 00:17:38,356 --> 00:17:40,636 Speaker 3: because Rodney Hyde took a keen interest in their case. 283 00:17:45,716 --> 00:17:48,796 Speaker 3: Rodney wrote a strongly worded letter to the bank suggesting 284 00:17:48,876 --> 00:17:51,996 Speaker 3: that their lax checking of Leslie's documents was negligent and 285 00:17:52,076 --> 00:17:55,796 Speaker 3: asked them to reverse their position, but the bank didn't budge. 286 00:18:00,516 --> 00:18:02,516 Speaker 3: The only other thing my parents could do was report 287 00:18:02,516 --> 00:18:04,796 Speaker 3: the whole thing to the police. 288 00:18:08,396 --> 00:18:11,276 Speaker 7: You have reached the New Zealand Police non emergency line. 289 00:18:11,556 --> 00:18:14,076 Speaker 3: Dad had a couple of meetings with Auckland's top fraud cop, 290 00:18:14,476 --> 00:18:15,076 Speaker 3: a Welshman. 291 00:18:15,476 --> 00:18:18,156 Speaker 7: So I'm Mahal Jones, I'm a detective respect at the 292 00:18:18,196 --> 00:18:22,356 Speaker 7: moment at the time when this file came in. I 293 00:18:22,676 --> 00:18:27,316 Speaker 7: was the acting detective senior sergeant in charge of Auckland 294 00:18:27,356 --> 00:18:30,876 Speaker 7: City Fraud Squad as it was then. Certainly, if the 295 00:18:30,916 --> 00:18:33,676 Speaker 7: suspect we were in New Zealand, it would be something 296 00:18:33,716 --> 00:18:36,756 Speaker 7: that we would have allocated and looked at. Unfortunately, with 297 00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:40,516 Speaker 7: her already having left the country ex standard practice at 298 00:18:40,556 --> 00:18:43,316 Speaker 7: that point that we wouldn't take it any further. It's 299 00:18:43,396 --> 00:18:46,916 Speaker 7: unfortunate that by the time this fraud, you know, or 300 00:18:46,916 --> 00:18:49,916 Speaker 7: the likely forward was realized, she was already well gone. 301 00:18:50,596 --> 00:18:53,236 Speaker 7: But what we did do is ensure that that person 302 00:18:53,516 --> 00:18:55,716 Speaker 7: has a border that placed on them, so if they 303 00:18:55,756 --> 00:18:57,636 Speaker 7: were to re enter the country, I would get a 304 00:18:57,636 --> 00:18:59,636 Speaker 7: notification and at that point we would look at the 305 00:18:59,636 --> 00:19:00,156 Speaker 7: filer game. 306 00:19:00,796 --> 00:19:03,316 Speaker 3: Unless Leslie came back to New Zealand, the cops wouldn't 307 00:19:03,356 --> 00:19:06,716 Speaker 3: do anything. By skipping the country, Leslie could leave it 308 00:19:06,756 --> 00:19:09,556 Speaker 3: all behind. Is it any part of the practice as 309 00:19:09,556 --> 00:19:12,316 Speaker 3: well to sort of let the US authorities know that 310 00:19:12,356 --> 00:19:13,796 Speaker 3: they've done something like that. 311 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:17,076 Speaker 7: I'd only do that if I really expecting to transfer 312 00:19:17,316 --> 00:19:20,916 Speaker 7: a file that had sufficient evidence on it to warrant 313 00:19:20,916 --> 00:19:24,396 Speaker 7: an investigation. In America, a lot of fraud files is 314 00:19:24,636 --> 00:19:26,436 Speaker 7: to get to that level you actually need to speak 315 00:19:26,476 --> 00:19:29,836 Speaker 7: to the suspect. Because you're looking at bank accounts, a 316 00:19:29,876 --> 00:19:33,476 Speaker 7: handwriting samples to get to that point. It's quite a 317 00:19:33,516 --> 00:19:33,956 Speaker 7: long road. 318 00:19:34,756 --> 00:19:38,276 Speaker 3: It seems like kind of a loop. With Leslie gone, 319 00:19:38,356 --> 00:19:42,636 Speaker 3: they couldn't investigate her, but without an investigation in New Zealand, 320 00:19:42,796 --> 00:19:46,476 Speaker 3: they couldn't tell the US. Therefore, no one was going 321 00:19:46,516 --> 00:19:50,436 Speaker 3: to investigate. But what all this meant was pretty simple. 322 00:19:51,036 --> 00:19:54,996 Speaker 3: Even if Leslie had committed blatant fraud, she was gonna 323 00:19:55,036 --> 00:20:04,956 Speaker 3: get away with it. As Dad and the administrators kept 324 00:20:04,996 --> 00:20:09,076 Speaker 3: investigating what happened at the Dragonfly, they found more shady surprises. 325 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:13,196 Speaker 3: One of the administrators somehow found out that Leslie had 326 00:20:13,196 --> 00:20:16,716 Speaker 3: been hit with charges relating to check fraud in the US, 327 00:20:17,356 --> 00:20:21,076 Speaker 3: and she had a conviction. Dad also found records showing 328 00:20:21,156 --> 00:20:24,636 Speaker 3: something really dodgy. Not long after he had put an 329 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:28,036 Speaker 3: eye watering seventy five grand in an account for Leslie 330 00:20:28,036 --> 00:20:31,676 Speaker 3: to set up the Dragonfly, she sent over twenty grand 331 00:20:31,876 --> 00:20:35,356 Speaker 3: to her parents in the US, and that was before 332 00:20:35,396 --> 00:20:42,316 Speaker 3: the business had even opened. Greg tried to confront Leslie 333 00:20:42,356 --> 00:20:45,796 Speaker 3: about all this, but according to Greg, she continued to 334 00:20:45,796 --> 00:20:48,676 Speaker 3: blame the failure of the Dragonfly on Mum and dad 335 00:20:48,836 --> 00:20:52,956 Speaker 3: and Greg meddling in the business. Mum and dad wanted 336 00:20:52,996 --> 00:20:58,636 Speaker 3: answers from Leslie's parents. They tried calling, and then Leslie's dad, 337 00:20:58,636 --> 00:21:02,916 Speaker 3: Andrew replied by email, this isn't his real voice. 338 00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:05,796 Speaker 11: I felt it would be better to respond to you 339 00:21:05,876 --> 00:21:08,516 Speaker 11: via email as I have difficulty most of the time 340 00:21:08,596 --> 00:21:11,756 Speaker 11: understanding the key we accent, and I apologize for that. 341 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:15,876 Speaker 11: We are extremely sorry for the situation everyone is in. 342 00:21:16,636 --> 00:21:19,276 Speaker 11: Betty has been praying for a turnaround of the situation, 343 00:21:19,956 --> 00:21:22,996 Speaker 11: and we all do care about your welfare and success. 344 00:21:23,716 --> 00:21:25,916 Speaker 3: But he goes on to say stuff like the cafe 345 00:21:25,916 --> 00:21:27,596 Speaker 3: should never have been sold. 346 00:21:28,316 --> 00:21:30,556 Speaker 11: We feel that you should have received advice from at 347 00:21:30,636 --> 00:21:34,516 Speaker 11: least three or four different experts. There are many brokers 348 00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:36,196 Speaker 11: out there that at least would have given you the 349 00:21:36,236 --> 00:21:40,516 Speaker 11: option to refinance. Your main concern seems to be that 350 00:21:40,596 --> 00:21:43,636 Speaker 11: Leslie was not properly regretful of her contributions to the 351 00:21:43,676 --> 00:21:47,196 Speaker 11: failure of the business. However, I am not sure what 352 00:21:47,316 --> 00:21:51,436 Speaker 11: gave you this impression. As far as our empathy for you, 353 00:21:51,996 --> 00:21:53,996 Speaker 11: it is more than you realize. 354 00:21:55,196 --> 00:21:57,996 Speaker 3: He sees they don't appreciate my mom and dad blaming 355 00:21:57,996 --> 00:22:00,116 Speaker 3: the loss of their home on Lesley. 356 00:22:00,236 --> 00:22:02,676 Speaker 11: You are an adult who has had your own businesses 357 00:22:02,716 --> 00:22:04,996 Speaker 11: in the past, and you must have known the risk 358 00:22:05,076 --> 00:22:06,596 Speaker 11: involved in this type of business. 359 00:22:07,236 --> 00:22:10,036 Speaker 3: Fear enough, Dead new the risks. But based on Leslie 360 00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:12,436 Speaker 3: saying she had her trust fund to back everything up, 361 00:22:14,156 --> 00:22:17,236 Speaker 3: here's the strange thing. It seems like Betty and Andrew 362 00:22:17,276 --> 00:22:20,676 Speaker 3: think Leslie's trust fund is real, or at least they're 363 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:22,676 Speaker 3: trying to convince my parents it's real. 364 00:22:24,356 --> 00:22:27,356 Speaker 11: Unfortunately, she does not have the freedom to access her 365 00:22:27,396 --> 00:22:29,956 Speaker 11: trust fund for any amounts to help the Dragonfly with 366 00:22:29,996 --> 00:22:33,756 Speaker 11: the financial distress it was in. Leslie does not have 367 00:22:33,836 --> 00:22:37,676 Speaker 11: control of this trust fund, nor do we. I want 368 00:22:37,676 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 11: to reiterate that we do not want to be involved 369 00:22:40,156 --> 00:22:43,356 Speaker 11: in any way whatsoever and would appreciate being left out 370 00:22:43,396 --> 00:22:47,636 Speaker 11: of this situation. Sincerely, Andrew. 371 00:22:48,516 --> 00:22:51,516 Speaker 3: Despite the evidence that shows Leslie sending money to Andrew, 372 00:22:51,796 --> 00:22:54,076 Speaker 3: when my dad reached out to them, it was pretty 373 00:22:54,076 --> 00:22:56,436 Speaker 3: clear they didn't want a bar of the whole situation. 374 00:22:57,556 --> 00:23:01,436 Speaker 3: Leslie warned Greg not to send the documents to her parents, 375 00:23:01,876 --> 00:23:06,076 Speaker 3: but then Mum and dad did exactly that. They emailed 376 00:23:06,076 --> 00:23:10,436 Speaker 3: Betty and Andrew with attachments showing evidence of fraudulent documents 377 00:23:10,916 --> 00:23:14,076 Speaker 3: and money transfers to them in the US. 378 00:23:14,596 --> 00:23:18,956 Speaker 5: Andrew and Betty some facts. Shortly after the bank loan 379 00:23:18,996 --> 00:23:23,716 Speaker 5: for the business and startup funding was obtained, Leslie transferred 380 00:23:23,836 --> 00:23:27,516 Speaker 5: US twelve five hundred dollars to you on the twenty 381 00:23:27,516 --> 00:23:31,436 Speaker 5: fifth of September. Our conclusion is that you both had 382 00:23:31,556 --> 00:23:34,476 Speaker 5: knowledge of what was happening, and we're a party to 383 00:23:34,556 --> 00:23:35,116 Speaker 5: the deceit. 384 00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:43,076 Speaker 3: Not long after my dad sent that email, Leslie wrote 385 00:23:43,076 --> 00:23:47,596 Speaker 3: to Greg asking for a divorce. She said it was 386 00:23:47,636 --> 00:23:52,356 Speaker 3: the last straw. I read some of what Leslie said 387 00:23:52,396 --> 00:23:55,836 Speaker 3: to Greg. He hadn't seen this divorce letter in over 388 00:23:55,876 --> 00:23:58,636 Speaker 3: a decade, Like I just want to read some of 389 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:04,156 Speaker 3: this letter to you. It says, dere Greg, I'm filing 390 00:24:04,196 --> 00:24:06,876 Speaker 3: for dissolution of our marriage and would appreciate your signature 391 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:09,516 Speaker 3: as soon as possible. I am sorry that things have 392 00:24:09,636 --> 00:24:10,516 Speaker 3: ended this way. 393 00:24:11,956 --> 00:24:12,796 Speaker 10: It's just all crap. 394 00:24:15,276 --> 00:24:20,196 Speaker 3: There's one particular paragraph here, which is I am sorry 395 00:24:20,196 --> 00:24:22,476 Speaker 3: that now you will never really know what was real 396 00:24:22,556 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 3: or not? Oh, what was real or not? But I 397 00:24:24,756 --> 00:24:26,876 Speaker 3: kept asking and pleading not to push and allow me 398 00:24:26,956 --> 00:24:28,596 Speaker 3: to do things on my terms. 399 00:24:28,516 --> 00:24:31,116 Speaker 12: And allow me to do things on my terms, but 400 00:24:31,716 --> 00:24:34,516 Speaker 12: you just didn't trust me enough to let me finish 401 00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:35,356 Speaker 12: what I started. 402 00:24:37,916 --> 00:24:39,236 Speaker 2: I didn't run from the mask. 403 00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 12: I laughed because I was not going to set back 404 00:24:42,276 --> 00:24:46,196 Speaker 12: and be told what to do by your family. I 405 00:24:46,276 --> 00:24:50,876 Speaker 12: did not work with people up in my face making demands. 406 00:24:54,476 --> 00:24:58,436 Speaker 10: She's a sociopath. She's trying to kill the lily, blame 407 00:24:58,476 --> 00:25:02,916 Speaker 10: other people, manipulation. So what I make of that is 408 00:25:04,036 --> 00:25:04,796 Speaker 10: just total crap. 409 00:25:04,916 --> 00:25:06,796 Speaker 3: To be honest, what do you think she meant by 410 00:25:07,996 --> 00:25:10,436 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, you will never really know what was real 411 00:25:10,556 --> 00:25:10,756 Speaker 3: or not. 412 00:25:11,556 --> 00:25:16,076 Speaker 10: Yeah, so that's the I guess. When you marry someone 413 00:25:16,116 --> 00:25:19,116 Speaker 10: you want to you feel like you really know them. 414 00:25:20,276 --> 00:25:24,396 Speaker 10: So to have her say that was quite tough because 415 00:25:25,556 --> 00:25:28,916 Speaker 10: it actually shows that she was holding out. She said, 416 00:25:29,276 --> 00:25:32,276 Speaker 10: you know you don't really know me. Well, she was 417 00:25:32,316 --> 00:25:36,516 Speaker 10: the one preventing me from knowing. And when I think, 418 00:25:36,556 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 10: I recall when I read that, I thought of Hawaii 419 00:25:41,476 --> 00:25:45,516 Speaker 10: and all of the stories from there, and I thought 420 00:25:45,516 --> 00:25:49,956 Speaker 10: to myself, I've just become the new Hawaii. Hawaii was 421 00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:53,156 Speaker 10: a mystery. Now in New Zealand's a mystery, and now 422 00:25:53,196 --> 00:25:54,836 Speaker 10: the storm's gone somewhere else. 423 00:26:01,276 --> 00:26:04,996 Speaker 3: My dad still had heaps of questions, like was Leslie's 424 00:26:04,996 --> 00:26:07,716 Speaker 3: trust fund real? She seemed to have faked the proof 425 00:26:07,796 --> 00:26:10,316 Speaker 3: she gave to the bank. But the weird thing was 426 00:26:10,836 --> 00:26:14,756 Speaker 3: Kiwebek also had other documents and even people who seem 427 00:26:14,796 --> 00:26:16,956 Speaker 3: to have vouched for the existence of this trust fund. 428 00:26:17,956 --> 00:26:23,476 Speaker 3: Some attuney called Eric t. Weiss Esquire head written to 429 00:26:23,476 --> 00:26:24,396 Speaker 3: the bank saying. 430 00:26:24,556 --> 00:26:28,356 Speaker 13: This letter is confirmation that Leslie R. Minooki and receives 431 00:26:28,396 --> 00:26:31,876 Speaker 13: five thousand US dollars per month allowance for the rest 432 00:26:31,916 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 13: of her life from a trust fund set up by 433 00:26:34,316 --> 00:26:35,116 Speaker 13: her grandfather. 434 00:26:35,716 --> 00:26:39,796 Speaker 3: So who is this guy, Eric t weiss Esquire. Well, 435 00:26:39,796 --> 00:26:42,196 Speaker 3: according to his letterhead, he worked at a place called 436 00:26:42,196 --> 00:26:45,556 Speaker 3: the Colonial Trust Company in Newport Beach, California. 437 00:26:46,476 --> 00:26:48,876 Speaker 14: No, I do not know an Eric t. Weiss and 438 00:26:49,356 --> 00:26:54,156 Speaker 14: my name is Walter Barr. I'm chairman of Colonial Trust Company, 439 00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:59,396 Speaker 14: which is a South Carolina State chartered trust company. We 440 00:26:59,476 --> 00:27:03,876 Speaker 14: have offices in Spartanburg, Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston, South Carolina. 441 00:27:04,356 --> 00:27:07,516 Speaker 14: We have no branches outside of South Carolina. And that 442 00:27:07,756 --> 00:27:11,036 Speaker 14: was confusing to be carl Trust or on the Bank 443 00:27:11,076 --> 00:27:16,996 Speaker 14: America statement. That old statement looks wrong to me. We 444 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:21,876 Speaker 14: certainly are a Colonial Trust company. Have had no dealings 445 00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:26,116 Speaker 14: with either the wife's individual or the Moniquin, and I 446 00:27:26,156 --> 00:27:28,316 Speaker 14: don't think these were anything we would have had anything 447 00:27:28,356 --> 00:27:28,716 Speaker 14: to do with. 448 00:27:29,316 --> 00:27:31,396 Speaker 3: So the only company of that name that was open 449 00:27:31,476 --> 00:27:36,156 Speaker 3: then has never heard of Leslie or Eric t Weiss esquire, 450 00:27:37,196 --> 00:27:40,836 Speaker 3: so who is he? Dad went looking for him, and 451 00:27:40,876 --> 00:27:43,396 Speaker 3: he did find an American lawyer named Eric t Weiss. 452 00:27:43,676 --> 00:27:47,236 Speaker 3: He sent him a fax. They still love fax machines 453 00:27:47,236 --> 00:27:49,916 Speaker 3: in the US. Dad was pretty worked up about what 454 00:27:49,956 --> 00:27:52,076 Speaker 3: had happened, so this facsy scent was intense. 455 00:27:53,836 --> 00:27:56,796 Speaker 5: Sir, you may wonder who it is that is writing 456 00:27:56,836 --> 00:27:59,836 Speaker 5: to you. The fact is you probably know much much 457 00:27:59,996 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 5: much more about me than I know about you. I 458 00:28:03,396 --> 00:28:06,796 Speaker 5: wish to address this imbalance, so I think it is 459 00:28:06,876 --> 00:28:08,956 Speaker 5: time to lay some cards on the table. 460 00:28:09,956 --> 00:28:15,716 Speaker 6: Well, you know, the language is somewhat accusatory, and I 461 00:28:15,756 --> 00:28:18,436 Speaker 6: guess in reading the letter, the first thing that comes 462 00:28:18,476 --> 00:28:23,316 Speaker 6: to my mind is that somebody has been wronged using 463 00:28:23,356 --> 00:28:27,076 Speaker 6: my name and rightfully believes that the person who wronged 464 00:28:27,116 --> 00:28:30,316 Speaker 6: them is me. My name is Eric t Weiss. I'm 465 00:28:30,356 --> 00:28:34,276 Speaker 6: a practicing attorney in the state of Michigan. One thing 466 00:28:34,316 --> 00:28:36,996 Speaker 6: I've learned since, you know, when I was a very 467 00:28:37,036 --> 00:28:40,716 Speaker 6: young child, is that your reputation is perhaps the most 468 00:28:40,756 --> 00:28:44,756 Speaker 6: important thing to you, and so just trying to put 469 00:28:44,756 --> 00:28:48,996 Speaker 6: pieces together, realizing that I need to clear this up 470 00:28:49,756 --> 00:28:53,116 Speaker 6: as soon as possible and that help this person essentially, 471 00:28:53,236 --> 00:28:54,676 Speaker 6: rather than going to become. 472 00:28:54,476 --> 00:28:59,116 Speaker 3: An adversary, Sir, this Eric t Weiss joined my dad's hunt. 473 00:29:00,316 --> 00:29:04,076 Speaker 3: Now they were all looking for Eric t Weiss esquire. 474 00:29:06,196 --> 00:29:07,996 Speaker 6: Being an attorney. As long as I've been an attorney, 475 00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:10,996 Speaker 6: there are there are ways to find out names of 476 00:29:11,036 --> 00:29:13,276 Speaker 6: attorneys where they practiced throughout. 477 00:29:13,036 --> 00:29:13,876 Speaker 14: The United States. 478 00:29:14,436 --> 00:29:17,956 Speaker 6: There is an Eric L. Wise in Atlanta, Eric Georgia 479 00:29:18,076 --> 00:29:22,116 Speaker 6: Wise in Eric Jersey City, Eric in Iwis, and Eric. 480 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:24,916 Speaker 3: But there just wasn't any sign of another era Eric T. 481 00:29:25,156 --> 00:29:27,916 Speaker 3: Wise anyway Lavinia, and an Eric G. 482 00:29:28,116 --> 00:29:31,956 Speaker 6: Wise in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Much to my surprise, I am 483 00:29:32,076 --> 00:29:34,476 Speaker 6: the only Eric Tys practicing law in the United States. 484 00:29:35,396 --> 00:29:37,716 Speaker 3: It's strange because can We Bank told Dad they had 485 00:29:37,796 --> 00:29:41,876 Speaker 3: spoken to Eric t Weiss. He had given his phone 486 00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 3: number and seed to Cole if the bank needed anything else. 487 00:29:44,836 --> 00:29:48,556 Speaker 3: Apparently they did. Cole Eric T Wess verified the existence 488 00:29:48,596 --> 00:29:51,796 Speaker 3: of this trust fund. So who was on the other 489 00:29:51,876 --> 00:29:52,756 Speaker 3: end of that phone call? 490 00:29:53,676 --> 00:29:56,356 Speaker 6: There was a phone number that I was able to 491 00:29:56,396 --> 00:30:00,636 Speaker 6: do a reverse check of the number online and was 492 00:30:00,676 --> 00:30:04,836 Speaker 6: able to contermine that it came out of California. The 493 00:30:04,956 --> 00:30:10,996 Speaker 6: number is the home number for Andrew R. And Betty R. 494 00:30:11,556 --> 00:30:16,236 Speaker 6: Minukian of California. And then I concluded that perhaps Eric 495 00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:20,476 Speaker 6: t wise to fake Eric t Weiss was really Andrew R. Minukian. 496 00:30:22,836 --> 00:30:26,716 Speaker 3: The phone number for Eric t Weiss's esquire given to 497 00:30:26,796 --> 00:30:31,276 Speaker 3: Kiwi Bank was actually just the phone number for Leslie's parents' house. 498 00:30:35,036 --> 00:30:39,236 Speaker 3: And that wasn't all. Eric had another illusion to reveal. 499 00:30:40,476 --> 00:30:43,836 Speaker 3: Eric knew he shared a name with someone famous. He 500 00:30:43,956 --> 00:30:48,476 Speaker 3: sort of casually mentioned to Dad that Eric Weiss was 501 00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:54,076 Speaker 3: also the real name of the great escape artist, Harry Houdini. 502 00:30:55,076 --> 00:31:09,956 Speaker 9: Lady and gentleman, Oh my fucking god, are you serious? 503 00:31:10,356 --> 00:31:11,396 Speaker 14: Who pointed that out? 504 00:31:12,276 --> 00:31:14,476 Speaker 3: Back when Dad was learning all of this stuff, He 505 00:31:14,516 --> 00:31:17,116 Speaker 3: didn't share it with my brothers. So I told Simon 506 00:31:17,156 --> 00:31:19,396 Speaker 3: about Eric t Weiss and the Great Houdini. 507 00:31:19,956 --> 00:31:22,676 Speaker 9: Okay, so that's that's bizarre. 508 00:31:24,596 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 3: If you don't call yourself Houdini, you know when you're 509 00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 3: doing your fraud. 510 00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:32,396 Speaker 8: Well, no, it's it's it's beautiful. She's just taking the 511 00:31:32,396 --> 00:31:36,196 Speaker 8: fucking pass, mate. So that makes me a lot more angrier. Well, 512 00:31:36,236 --> 00:31:40,916 Speaker 8: I didn't know that. Yeah, that totally changed the game 513 00:31:40,956 --> 00:31:44,996 Speaker 8: for me. Really, yeah, that's quite calculated, and like, I 514 00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:47,876 Speaker 8: don't know, It's just like a finger, isn't it. It's 515 00:31:47,876 --> 00:31:50,916 Speaker 8: a big It's a big metal finger that's fucking out there. 516 00:31:52,636 --> 00:31:57,476 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 517 00:32:00,676 --> 00:32:04,036 Speaker 5: I was just gobsmacked as too. What's going on here? 518 00:32:04,316 --> 00:32:08,116 Speaker 5: How could this be? It was just one of those 519 00:32:08,236 --> 00:32:11,756 Speaker 5: moments where I can't figure it out, and I actually 520 00:32:11,836 --> 00:32:12,476 Speaker 5: still can't. 521 00:32:13,156 --> 00:32:15,796 Speaker 3: This whole Eric t Weiss thing added a new layer 522 00:32:15,796 --> 00:32:18,036 Speaker 3: to the mystery. Dad was keen to get to the 523 00:32:18,076 --> 00:32:20,636 Speaker 3: bottom of who was in on the scam, who wasn't, 524 00:32:20,996 --> 00:32:24,716 Speaker 3: and how it all worked. More clues turned up leaving 525 00:32:24,756 --> 00:32:26,836 Speaker 3: in a hurry and under the pretense that she'd be back. 526 00:32:27,236 --> 00:32:29,156 Speaker 3: Leslie had left a lot of stuff around the house 527 00:32:29,156 --> 00:32:32,876 Speaker 3: at the Dragonfly, nothing valuable, mostly clothes, but there was 528 00:32:32,916 --> 00:32:36,796 Speaker 3: a diary and a few documents, and this one piece 529 00:32:36,836 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 3: of paper that had a word clearly scrawled on it. 530 00:32:40,836 --> 00:32:44,116 Speaker 3: When Dad saw it, he had an idea. He knew 531 00:32:44,116 --> 00:32:47,076 Speaker 3: that Leslie had been using his laptop to access her email, 532 00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:49,516 Speaker 3: and it kept prompting him to put in a password, 533 00:32:50,116 --> 00:32:55,636 Speaker 3: so he thought, maybe I'll just try this, and incredibly 534 00:32:56,156 --> 00:33:00,356 Speaker 3: it worked. All of a sudden, he had access to 535 00:33:00,396 --> 00:33:02,836 Speaker 3: the inner workings of Leslie's world. 536 00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:06,956 Speaker 5: Being able to look at her emails, I can tell 537 00:33:06,996 --> 00:33:08,996 Speaker 5: you there was an awful lot of stuff going on. 538 00:33:11,956 --> 00:33:16,476 Speaker 5: I have to say that there were thousands of emails. 539 00:33:18,356 --> 00:33:23,116 Speaker 5: It wasn't any fraudulentcy on my part. I acquired a 540 00:33:23,196 --> 00:33:28,356 Speaker 5: past word, and while I didn't tell her I was 541 00:33:28,396 --> 00:33:35,756 Speaker 5: looking at them, it did give me an awful lot 542 00:33:35,756 --> 00:33:36,356 Speaker 5: of information. 543 00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:42,156 Speaker 3: So did you save her emails? 544 00:33:43,596 --> 00:33:46,836 Speaker 5: I have saved some of them, the ones that were interesting. 545 00:33:48,996 --> 00:33:53,676 Speaker 3: How often would you go in there and look at 546 00:33:53,756 --> 00:34:02,236 Speaker 3: least once a week? So weird? It is weird. It 547 00:34:02,316 --> 00:34:13,396 Speaker 3: is weird. Why how many do you have? Oh? 548 00:34:13,956 --> 00:34:16,076 Speaker 5: I only kept the ones that have great interest, and 549 00:34:16,156 --> 00:34:20,556 Speaker 5: I did little sort of excerpts from them. 550 00:34:20,756 --> 00:34:23,076 Speaker 3: Dad tells me that for about a year he was 551 00:34:23,116 --> 00:34:26,556 Speaker 3: copy pasting the interesting stuff into word documents until the 552 00:34:26,596 --> 00:34:30,036 Speaker 3: past word got changed. I can totally understand why Dad 553 00:34:30,076 --> 00:34:32,956 Speaker 3: did this. The walls had fallen in around him. The 554 00:34:32,996 --> 00:34:34,756 Speaker 3: bank didn't seem to want to act on any of 555 00:34:34,756 --> 00:34:37,636 Speaker 3: this stuff, and neither did the police. He had no 556 00:34:37,836 --> 00:34:41,196 Speaker 3: other way of getting more definitive answers about the extent 557 00:34:41,276 --> 00:34:44,476 Speaker 3: of Leslie's fraud and at this point, neither do I. 558 00:34:45,956 --> 00:34:48,036 Speaker 3: All of the emails Dad saved are in the box 559 00:34:48,076 --> 00:34:51,516 Speaker 3: of documents he's given me. I do feel kind of 560 00:34:51,556 --> 00:34:54,836 Speaker 3: conflicted about this. I could have just left the emails 561 00:34:54,836 --> 00:34:57,516 Speaker 3: in the box and cracked on working things out without them. 562 00:34:57,956 --> 00:35:00,196 Speaker 3: But leaving them in the box would have meant not 563 00:35:00,436 --> 00:35:06,276 Speaker 3: truly understanding what happened, so I decided to read them. 564 00:35:06,556 --> 00:35:11,196 Speaker 3: That means getting a real insight into Leslie's world, as 565 00:35:11,236 --> 00:35:14,716 Speaker 3: we can hear directly from her. This is a bio 566 00:35:14,796 --> 00:35:18,276 Speaker 3: she wrote about herself in an email. I think it's 567 00:35:18,316 --> 00:35:21,556 Speaker 3: for a course application. We've got an actor to read 568 00:35:21,636 --> 00:35:22,596 Speaker 3: Leslie's emails. 569 00:35:23,996 --> 00:35:28,156 Speaker 12: I have always been fascinated with fast things. My closest 570 00:35:28,156 --> 00:35:31,396 Speaker 12: friends would tell you that adrenaline is my best friend. 571 00:35:32,236 --> 00:35:35,476 Speaker 12: I'm always looking for the most extreme high through HELLI 572 00:35:35,516 --> 00:35:40,036 Speaker 12: morning offal desk, kayaking with the glaciers, hiking the backside 573 00:35:40,076 --> 00:35:43,196 Speaker 12: of Half Dell, to scuba diving with the hammerheads of 574 00:35:43,236 --> 00:35:48,236 Speaker 12: the Cocus Islands. I am sad to have a glowing personality, 575 00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 12: and at times I believe this is true because of 576 00:35:51,796 --> 00:35:54,876 Speaker 12: all the great friends that I have. But I see 577 00:35:54,916 --> 00:36:00,396 Speaker 12: myself as shy and guarded as a bartender. The fun, 578 00:36:00,636 --> 00:36:04,036 Speaker 12: crazy people and rushes of mad crowds give me the 579 00:36:04,196 --> 00:36:08,316 Speaker 12: ultimate natural high. I traveled for seven years through fifty 580 00:36:08,356 --> 00:36:12,356 Speaker 12: two countries, mostly alone, meeting people along the way. The 581 00:36:12,476 --> 00:36:15,636 Speaker 12: experience taught me that I am a go getter who's 582 00:36:15,676 --> 00:36:19,956 Speaker 12: a hard working and confident woman. But mostly I am 583 00:36:20,116 --> 00:36:20,956 Speaker 12: a survivor. 584 00:36:24,636 --> 00:36:25,556 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. 585 00:36:26,996 --> 00:36:29,116 Speaker 3: Those last few words are in capital letters. By the way, 586 00:36:29,876 --> 00:36:33,756 Speaker 3: I am a survivor. She'll often emphasize the line in capitals. 587 00:36:34,356 --> 00:36:37,716 Speaker 3: Looking through Leslie's other emails, there's more that sticks out 588 00:36:37,756 --> 00:36:40,796 Speaker 3: to me. There's insight into her relationship with her parents, 589 00:36:41,276 --> 00:36:43,836 Speaker 3: mainly Betty, Leslie's mum. She seems to do most of 590 00:36:43,876 --> 00:36:46,716 Speaker 3: the emailing a lot of the time. Betty seems nice. 591 00:36:47,076 --> 00:36:50,636 Speaker 3: She even asks after my parents, how is everything there? 592 00:36:51,196 --> 00:36:51,396 Speaker 6: Oh? 593 00:36:51,516 --> 00:36:53,476 Speaker 3: How are Julie and Dave? 594 00:36:54,316 --> 00:36:57,836 Speaker 1: Please tell them hello for me, love Mom. 595 00:36:59,116 --> 00:37:02,316 Speaker 3: This makes me think maybe they don't know about Leslie's 596 00:37:02,356 --> 00:37:07,876 Speaker 3: tricks in some ways, could they be victims too? Firstly, 597 00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:10,956 Speaker 3: there's just so much admin going on of Leslie trying 598 00:37:10,996 --> 00:37:14,516 Speaker 3: to send money to her mum. It's a constant dance 599 00:37:14,756 --> 00:37:18,516 Speaker 3: of her explaining holdups and sending cash back to her parents. 600 00:37:18,956 --> 00:37:21,716 Speaker 12: I can send you money Western Union. I'm going to 601 00:37:21,796 --> 00:37:24,956 Speaker 12: try to send you a little money first from Greg's account. 602 00:37:25,756 --> 00:37:28,636 Speaker 12: Greg was using my computer the other night while waiting 603 00:37:28,676 --> 00:37:30,596 Speaker 12: for me to call him for a ride, and the 604 00:37:30,676 --> 00:37:33,756 Speaker 12: rabbit ate my computer cord again. 605 00:37:37,796 --> 00:37:41,396 Speaker 3: It seems like while Leslie was spending the Dragonfly startup money, 606 00:37:41,716 --> 00:37:44,796 Speaker 3: she was also keeping up appearances and n zed with 607 00:37:44,916 --> 00:37:48,716 Speaker 3: her mum's credit card. Here's an email from Leslie's mum, Betty. 608 00:37:49,036 --> 00:37:52,116 Speaker 1: Leslie, this is the last time you're going to use 609 00:37:52,156 --> 00:37:55,836 Speaker 1: our credit card. I know you are short of money, 610 00:37:55,916 --> 00:37:58,796 Speaker 1: and that's why I'm giving this to you. But you 611 00:37:58,836 --> 00:38:02,116 Speaker 1: are a grown woman with a husband and a business, 612 00:38:02,556 --> 00:38:05,156 Speaker 1: and we are your poor parents who are in deep 613 00:38:05,276 --> 00:38:06,076 Speaker 1: shit debt. 614 00:38:07,276 --> 00:38:10,636 Speaker 3: So maybe Betty suffers from Leslie's creative approach to money 615 00:38:10,676 --> 00:38:16,076 Speaker 3: management too. But what about Andrew. The phone number provided 616 00:38:16,156 --> 00:38:19,516 Speaker 3: by Eric t Weiss to Kiwibank was their home number, 617 00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:22,516 Speaker 3: but the bank manager reckoned. He called the number and 618 00:38:22,556 --> 00:38:26,796 Speaker 3: spoke to Eric. Could that have been Leslie's dad, Andrew 619 00:38:27,236 --> 00:38:34,636 Speaker 3: playing the role of Eric t Weiss. If things weren't 620 00:38:34,636 --> 00:38:38,636 Speaker 3: strange already. They get a bit sideways from here, because 621 00:38:38,916 --> 00:38:42,436 Speaker 3: for a guy who doesn't seem real Eric t Weiss 622 00:38:42,476 --> 00:38:45,996 Speaker 3: sends a lot of emails, and a lot of them 623 00:38:45,996 --> 00:38:47,156 Speaker 3: are to Leslie's parents. 624 00:38:47,596 --> 00:38:51,676 Speaker 13: Good morning, Andy and Mattie. Hope this email finds you well. 625 00:38:52,036 --> 00:38:55,036 Speaker 13: I have had several lengthy conversations with a banker friend 626 00:38:55,076 --> 00:38:57,516 Speaker 13: of mine, and the paperwork on the trust money that 627 00:38:57,596 --> 00:39:01,276 Speaker 13: Leslie received on your behalf is a very tricky situation. 628 00:39:03,716 --> 00:39:06,396 Speaker 3: I can see these emails from Eric to Lesley's parents 629 00:39:06,476 --> 00:39:09,436 Speaker 3: because they seem to show up in Leslie's account. She's 630 00:39:09,556 --> 00:39:14,516 Speaker 3: c seed or they've been forwarded. Eric writes a lot 631 00:39:14,596 --> 00:39:17,836 Speaker 3: like Leslie. He puts random words in capitals, and he's 632 00:39:17,876 --> 00:39:20,956 Speaker 3: often explaining delays and money transfers to her parents. 633 00:39:21,396 --> 00:39:23,836 Speaker 13: Sarah from the accounting office of Sony did leave a 634 00:39:23,876 --> 00:39:26,316 Speaker 13: message with my assistant letting us know that the money 635 00:39:26,356 --> 00:39:29,836 Speaker 13: will be available on Wednesday. They will fed extra cashier's 636 00:39:29,876 --> 00:39:31,676 Speaker 13: check to you to receive by a Thursday. 637 00:39:32,196 --> 00:39:35,636 Speaker 3: Eric also passes on advice to Leslie's parents about what 638 00:39:35,796 --> 00:39:39,916 Speaker 3: to do in some situations, like here, Eric suggests what 639 00:39:40,036 --> 00:39:42,196 Speaker 3: to say to my mom and dad. 640 00:39:42,356 --> 00:39:47,036 Speaker 13: If he starts whining about his present financial situation. Apologize 641 00:39:47,076 --> 00:39:49,356 Speaker 13: for his loss, but state you feel that he should 642 00:39:49,396 --> 00:39:51,796 Speaker 13: have had at least three or four different opinions before 643 00:39:51,836 --> 00:39:53,316 Speaker 13: making this final decision. 644 00:39:58,236 --> 00:40:03,156 Speaker 3: Reading through these emails, something seemed strangely familiar. I started 645 00:40:03,196 --> 00:40:07,076 Speaker 3: to recognize some of the words in this email. Eric 646 00:40:07,156 --> 00:40:10,116 Speaker 3: is talking about how the administrators were called into the Dragonfly, 647 00:40:10,556 --> 00:40:12,916 Speaker 3: and he's saying that my family shouldn't have placed the 648 00:40:12,956 --> 00:40:18,356 Speaker 3: business into voluntary administration. I realized, I've heard that somewhere before. 649 00:40:19,356 --> 00:40:21,636 Speaker 11: We feel that you should have received advice from at 650 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:23,396 Speaker 11: least three or four different experts. 651 00:40:23,956 --> 00:40:27,156 Speaker 3: Leslie's dad said all the same stuff to my parents 652 00:40:27,196 --> 00:40:28,396 Speaker 3: when he wrote to them. 653 00:40:28,636 --> 00:40:30,716 Speaker 11: There are many brokers out there that at least would 654 00:40:30,716 --> 00:40:32,516 Speaker 11: have given you the option to refinance. 655 00:40:33,196 --> 00:40:36,476 Speaker 3: It seems like he's just rehashing what Eric said to say. 656 00:40:36,956 --> 00:40:39,516 Speaker 13: Just say, there are many brokers out there who would 657 00:40:39,556 --> 00:40:42,516 Speaker 13: have bailed you out for at least six months. Yes, 658 00:40:42,676 --> 00:40:45,156 Speaker 13: maybe had a higher interest rate, but at least they 659 00:40:45,196 --> 00:40:47,276 Speaker 13: would have made it through the winter, so could have 660 00:40:47,276 --> 00:40:49,356 Speaker 13: put the property up for a salement. 661 00:40:50,876 --> 00:40:53,796 Speaker 3: Ugh. I feel like I'm playing a game of pickup sticks, 662 00:40:54,436 --> 00:40:59,516 Speaker 3: just where every stick is actually a thick piece of bullshit. Okay, 663 00:40:59,596 --> 00:41:03,516 Speaker 3: So Eric t Weiss sends advice to Leslie, who forwards 664 00:41:03,516 --> 00:41:07,996 Speaker 3: it to her dad, Andrew. Andrew follows instructions and sends 665 00:41:08,036 --> 00:41:11,436 Speaker 3: all of this bullshit my dad. So it seems like 666 00:41:11,556 --> 00:41:14,836 Speaker 3: Leslie could be using this fake persona Eric t Weiss, 667 00:41:15,316 --> 00:41:18,676 Speaker 3: to get her parents to say whatever she wants them 668 00:41:18,676 --> 00:41:24,636 Speaker 3: to say. If Eric t Weiss is just a character 669 00:41:24,716 --> 00:41:28,756 Speaker 3: Leslie invented, she's at least made him three dimensional. Because 670 00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:31,476 Speaker 3: Eric writes to Leslie like he's updating a friend. 671 00:41:32,036 --> 00:41:35,556 Speaker 13: Hi, Leslie, hope this email finds you well At the moment, 672 00:41:35,636 --> 00:41:40,716 Speaker 13: I'm back in Bangkok, still dealing with legal issues, Leslie. 673 00:41:40,876 --> 00:41:42,676 Speaker 13: I was happy to hear that you made it back 674 00:41:42,676 --> 00:41:45,636 Speaker 13: to the States. I am sorry that things have not 675 00:41:45,756 --> 00:41:46,996 Speaker 13: gone so well for you. 676 00:41:47,636 --> 00:41:52,516 Speaker 3: So is Leslie emailing herself as Eric. What is going on? 677 00:41:53,956 --> 00:41:56,996 Speaker 13: It will be worth it one day, Leslie, Leslie, do not. 678 00:41:57,036 --> 00:41:57,796 Speaker 12: I was happy to. 679 00:41:57,716 --> 00:42:00,876 Speaker 13: Hear that you made it actually secure for life by 680 00:42:00,916 --> 00:42:03,396 Speaker 13: your dad. That hummer you keep talking about. 681 00:42:04,876 --> 00:42:08,156 Speaker 3: If only Leslie used this much imagination running the Dragonfly, 682 00:42:09,116 --> 00:42:12,116 Speaker 3: and if she can pull off such complicated lies, Leslie 683 00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:15,596 Speaker 3: must have had practice. There must be other people that 684 00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:18,916 Speaker 3: have been conned. I need to find them, and I 685 00:42:18,996 --> 00:42:22,676 Speaker 3: know where I have to start. Before Leslie met Greg, 686 00:42:23,156 --> 00:42:25,916 Speaker 3: she was in Hawaii. I have to find out what 687 00:42:25,996 --> 00:42:31,956 Speaker 3: happened there. Luckily Greg's given me a head start. Greg 688 00:42:32,036 --> 00:42:34,356 Speaker 3: knew now that Leslie's story of being run out of 689 00:42:34,396 --> 00:42:39,156 Speaker 3: Hawaii by murderous local mobsters probably wasn't true, So while 690 00:42:39,236 --> 00:42:43,036 Speaker 3: Dad was skulking around in Leslie's emails, Greg was writing 691 00:42:43,076 --> 00:42:44,476 Speaker 3: to the Hawaiian State Police. 692 00:42:45,556 --> 00:42:49,116 Speaker 10: This is obviously not an ordinary crime or set of circumstance, 693 00:42:50,156 --> 00:42:53,476 Speaker 10: but from the normal successful life my family once led, 694 00:42:54,156 --> 00:42:57,276 Speaker 10: I find myself in a murky world of con artists 695 00:42:57,276 --> 00:43:01,276 Speaker 10: and swindlers. We are battling them and I will find 696 00:43:01,276 --> 00:43:06,956 Speaker 10: out the truth. Any information, advice may be a point 697 00:43:06,956 --> 00:43:09,116 Speaker 10: in the right direction, would be invaluable. 698 00:43:11,516 --> 00:43:14,276 Speaker 3: And before long Greg got a reply. 699 00:43:16,036 --> 00:43:23,876 Speaker 10: Checked the letterbox and an interesting looking Manila folder type envelope, 700 00:43:24,156 --> 00:43:28,156 Speaker 10: quite chunky in the letter box and had some US 701 00:43:28,236 --> 00:43:31,636 Speaker 10: postal marks on it, and I thought, wow, this is 702 00:43:31,996 --> 00:43:33,436 Speaker 10: this is going to be interesting. 703 00:43:33,796 --> 00:43:37,036 Speaker 3: So interesting that it's going to help me discover what 704 00:43:37,196 --> 00:43:41,516 Speaker 3: really happened in Hawaii. 705 00:43:41,956 --> 00:43:42,436 Speaker 14: Going to help you. 706 00:43:42,676 --> 00:43:46,076 Speaker 3: Yes, hi, chi phone, it's Ollie Ward's here. The ABC 707 00:43:46,236 --> 00:43:49,036 Speaker 3: journalispits this town is very small. 708 00:43:49,076 --> 00:43:51,236 Speaker 13: We can't cooking it wireless, so everyone talks to everyone 709 00:43:51,276 --> 00:43:51,836 Speaker 13: about everything. 710 00:43:52,236 --> 00:43:54,796 Speaker 3: Does the name Leslie Minoukian mean anything to you? 711 00:43:55,156 --> 00:43:57,236 Speaker 4: Oh, you've bet never forget her. 712 00:43:57,516 --> 00:43:59,276 Speaker 2: I was to the point where I wanted to. 713 00:44:00,676 --> 00:44:03,596 Speaker 14: She had all these fantastic ideas of what was going 714 00:44:03,676 --> 00:44:06,796 Speaker 14: to happen and was all sung together by dreams. 715 00:44:06,836 --> 00:44:10,156 Speaker 8: Really, I don't care whether you're in Hawaii, you're in California, 716 00:44:10,196 --> 00:44:11,716 Speaker 8: you're in New Zealand, or wherever. 717 00:44:12,236 --> 00:44:15,516 Speaker 6: You get what you give the scammer. And she's lucky 718 00:44:15,636 --> 00:44:16,036 Speaker 6: she left. 719 00:44:16,396 --> 00:44:18,476 Speaker 3: That's next time on Snowball.