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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Yo, Elizabeth Dutton,

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Speaker 1: Dave Kusten.

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Speaker 2: You know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 1: I do, I do? Okay? Do you like whiskey?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: In the jar or not in the jar? Sure?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Do you like peanut butter? Of course I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: to you what I do Tom. On one side, you

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Speaker 1: have good old Whiskey, a bold, loud and strong partnering

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Speaker 1: crime who exudes confidence. I don't know who wrote this,

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Speaker 1: but godspeed. On the other we have peanut butter is. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's part of the Perry Mason series, a rich, smooth

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Speaker 1: and irresistible spread that's as dependable as they come for

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Speaker 1: all your late night cravings. And you know kindergarten lunches.

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Speaker 1: Little did you know these two blend together quite phenomenally.

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Speaker 1: In fact, they go together so well they make peebe

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Speaker 1: and Jay jellis. It's nearly impossible to just have one

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Speaker 1: of this delicious treat so encouraging alcoholism. But we have

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Speaker 1: to warn you a night with screwball s k R

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Speaker 1: E W B l L is bound to get a

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Speaker 1: little nutty cringing. Screwball is the original peanut butter whiskey.

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Speaker 1: I think it has to be the original that embraces

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Speaker 1: everybody's nutty side. Screwball's iconic mix of both sweet and

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Speaker 1: savory flavors definitely pushes boundaries, but that's exactly what makes

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Speaker 1: it uniquely appropriate for any occasion.

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Speaker 2: What wrote this?

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Speaker 1: Like, I don't know, but like first communion, poor me

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Speaker 1: out's up. So yeah, Screwball peanut butter whiskey. How does

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Speaker 1: it push bound Well, the boundaries of decency. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Is like, is jelly like the steady and the whiskey

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Speaker 2: like the peanut butter stepping out?

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Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, yeah, it's the side, it's the A

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Speaker 1: little strange. This came from Emmy. Emily. I think she

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Speaker 1: goes by Emmy. Someone read the emails that we get

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Speaker 1: and passed it along. That never happens. They're kept in

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Speaker 1: a dark, dank vault and no one but this one

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Speaker 1: made its way to the top bubbled up. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks Emmy.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, thank you, Emmy. That definitely is ridiculous. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: oh I got one for you and for Emmy.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: How about a guy who robs five banks in the

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Speaker 2: same region in a span of less than a year.

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Speaker 2: That is some that's some criminal density. That's ambitious, but

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Speaker 2: that's not all. He then makes one of the more

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Speaker 2: remarkable career shifts you'll see from a member of the

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Speaker 2: Five Timers Club. After twelve years of hard time, he

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Speaker 2: comes out of the joint with a running start on

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Speaker 2: his best life. This is not normal, No, This is

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Speaker 2: Ridiculous Crime a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers. Heis

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Speaker 2: and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free and

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent ridiculous. Elizabeth Dave, have you ever been

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Speaker 2: so bored that you decided to do criminal or criminal

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Speaker 2: adjacent things just to chase the dread away?

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Speaker 1: I've dreamt of criminal adjacent or criminal things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how about like mildly mischievous things?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, totally. We I used to work in

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Speaker 1: a copy mat on campus, the copy play the printing shop,

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Speaker 1: and we would be really slow during the summer. We'd

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Speaker 1: like print up a bunch of stuff and they just

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Speaker 1: kind of sit around, and we used to come up

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Speaker 1: with how could we builk this operation out of money?

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Speaker 1: We didn't do it, but you know, we would contemplate

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Speaker 1: it and make lists of all the ways you could

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Speaker 1: steal money. From the copy mat from.

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Speaker 2: The I guess, I guess that's technically conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, and we could if we had carried

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Speaker 1: it out. I'm sure that you know. First of all,

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Speaker 1: it would have gone on our permanent records.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, have been busted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So well, this guy, so the story I'm about to

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Speaker 2: tell you. This guy got a case of the little

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Speaker 2: town blues, right, you know how he decided to melt

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Speaker 2: them away with a number of bank jobs.

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Speaker 1: Hey, that's spicy. That'll do it, pretty.

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Speaker 2: Big league stuff. His name is Sean Hopwood, but it's

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Speaker 2: spelled s h O n oh, so like the same

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Speaker 2: Sean Sean. It's like, I think of it as like

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Speaker 2: the sound of a sword coming out of the sheath Sean,

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Speaker 2: or like cutting a slice of chocolate cake Sean.

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Speaker 1: If he went to a first grader and he said,

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Speaker 1: his friend's name is Sean, how do you spell it

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Speaker 1: as h O N?

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Speaker 2: Take out a big crayon exactly h if Zaron, we're here,

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Speaker 2: God bless Yeah. Point, I'm pointing to the ceiling for

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Speaker 2: no reason.

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Speaker 1: I'm pouring my water out down on the or of

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Speaker 1: the studio here. But if he was fine, by the way,

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Speaker 1: everyone he's fine, we hope. Yeah. No, he's just out.

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Speaker 1: He's off traveling the world and giving speeches because he's,

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Speaker 1: you know, important.

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Speaker 2: If Zaren were here, he this guy would qualify for

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Speaker 2: my man status. I'm pretty okay, okay, So let me

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Speaker 2: tell you a little more about where he come from.

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Speaker 2: Sean hails from the small town of David City, Nebraska.

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Speaker 2: I wish I came from there. It would be like

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Speaker 2: the right place.

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Speaker 1: I know, right, this is like the origin story. He

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Speaker 1: just rose up out of the ground.

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Speaker 2: David City is about an hour and a half west

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Speaker 2: of Omaha, or forty five minutes northwest of Lincoln. Lincoln's

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Speaker 2: kind of like the biggish small town, you know, biggish

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Speaker 2: small city college town, because that's where the Huskers are,

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Speaker 2: right exactly. But David City is pretty flat, nothing but

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Speaker 2: corn and cattle, lots of grain, silos, old brick, and

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Speaker 2: everyone's all up in each other's business. Of course, Sean

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Speaker 2: quickly outgrew that town. He craved a life that felt

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Speaker 2: bigger and more meaningful. He thought he deserved better. He

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Speaker 2: wanted to dance Elizabeth.

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Speaker 1: He just wanted He just wanted to let his body

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Speaker 1: express itself.

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Speaker 2: The freak flag needed to fly. So let me tell

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Speaker 2: you a little more about his upbringing. He had loving parents,

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Speaker 2: Robert and Rebecca. His dad was a member of the

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Speaker 2: Nebraska Cattlemen Association. Robert he worked labor intensive jobs in

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Speaker 2: the cattle industry, and he ran a local youth basketball league,

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Speaker 2: which Sean eventually would participate in.

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Speaker 1: Do you think his dad loved the cattle more than

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Speaker 1: he loved his son.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I mean, he being a part

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Speaker 2: of the Nebraska Cattlemen Association is as I think, a

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Speaker 2: big efforts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's high steaks stuff.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Sean, unlike the cattle, had his share

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Speaker 2: of successes. I think the cattle just hang out.

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Speaker 1: So m m.

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Speaker 2: Sean made the local paper. In elementary school along with

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Speaker 2: his buddy Tom, who will hear more about later. They

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Speaker 2: won some kind of financial literacy competition, like they had

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Speaker 2: to budget out meals for a week and YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But then in high school he was

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Speaker 2: a bona fide basketball star. He took his team to

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Speaker 2: the state champs. They took home the trophy and Tom too.

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Speaker 2: Tom was a part of that crew. Go Pride, Go

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Speaker 2: aquinas Pride. Oh wow, Okay, So from what I could tell,

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Speaker 2: he and his friend Tom, they're living that Larry Bird

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Speaker 2: life right Like, they're practicing basketball endlessly, They're.

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Speaker 1: Using shorts short short shorts.

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Speaker 2: Using glu stick to keep their cow licks down. They're

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Speaker 2: working on their trash time.

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Speaker 1: Wait what year is this?

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Speaker 2: This is actually so he's he's my age, so I

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Speaker 2: think it was like he so he would have gone

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Speaker 2: to high school in like the early early nineties. Like yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you know, watching the basket College like.

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Speaker 1: When you're talking about gluing down Cawlyx, I like, was

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Speaker 1: this in the fifties? Is no?

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Speaker 2: I mean I just imagine, like, how else is Larry

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Speaker 2: Bird going to keep that cow lick down?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? These kids are probably using that gel that La Palmer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looks there you go.

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Speaker 2: And you know, so they're doing all that and they're

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Speaker 2: dreaming about doing something vaguely impressive with their lives.

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Speaker 1: That's good.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, things started to go south for Sean around college time.

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Speaker 2: So in the fall of ninety three, he enrolls at

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Speaker 2: Midland Lutheran University with a basketball scholarship.

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Speaker 1: Good job, Sean, Yeah, hooray.

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Speaker 2: He flunks out after five months. Oh boo, did you

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Speaker 2: ever go from being really good at something to realizing

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Speaker 2: you're just okay at it? People way better than God.

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Speaker 1: Yes. I junior high I tried to play basketball, couldn't

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Speaker 1: do it. To save my life. Coach pulled me aside.

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Speaker 1: This is like seventh grade, pulls me aside, is like,

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Speaker 1: this is not for you. Oh man, I mean come,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, must give me a break, dude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I was horrible. And then also then so I

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Speaker 1: go from high school where I'm like overachiever, top of

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Speaker 1: my class, blah blah blah, go to college, can't pass calculus,

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Speaker 1: can't pass chemistry, wind up on probate, academic probation, and

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Speaker 1: I got taken down a notch. Like girls, I'm a

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Speaker 1: class of sixty. Wasn't hard to be super good. And

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Speaker 1: then you go to a college with like thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: people in it. It was reckoning, David, You.

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Speaker 2: Never forget that first d or fduh.

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Speaker 1: God it brought me lou and then I got Then

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Speaker 1: I went and did it again. I got another F

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Speaker 1: in calculus when I tried to retake it.

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Speaker 2: Lesson learned, let's learned, don't take calculus.

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Speaker 1: I was humble. Yeah, oh yeah, me and math don't mix.

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Speaker 2: So this is what happened to Sean. He's got like

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Speaker 2: the ghost of Ricky Bobby Future on one shoulder, saying,

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Speaker 2: if you ain't first, you last, right, And he's got

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Speaker 2: the dad from searching for Bobby Fisher on the other shoulder,

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Speaker 2: who's like, Joshua, there are no losers in this family.

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Speaker 2: You must always win. I mean, you give yourself a break, brother, right.

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Speaker 2: You know that anxiety dream where you dream you've never

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Speaker 2: been to class.

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Speaker 1: I have those all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, Oh yeah, me too, Like where like

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Speaker 2: the last day you're coming in to take the exam

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Speaker 2: and you've never been there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you find out that you've been registered for a

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Speaker 1: class this whole time, and it's for me, it's always

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Speaker 1: a math class exactly.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's what he did, basically. Yeah, he

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Speaker 2: just never showed up for class. So he flunks out

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Speaker 2: of school, packs up his CD disc man, his Tivas,

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Speaker 2: his tapestry, remaining cases of clearly Canadian, his reservoir dogs poster.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about this. He deflates his basketball, puts it

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Speaker 2: in the briefcase, and his buddy Tom drives him back

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Speaker 2: home to David City. There he gets a tiny apartment

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Speaker 2: and jobs a riveter in a trailer factory, which sounds

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Speaker 2: kind of dismal, kind of cool, but.

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Speaker 1: Kind of does kind of yeah, like it could go

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Speaker 1: either way.

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Speaker 2: He quickly burns through his money. His dad is going

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Speaker 2: to bail him out, but only if he joins the Navy.

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Speaker 2: Tough love. Yeah, Sean figures it at least get him

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Speaker 2: out of David City for a while. And that's like

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Speaker 2: his whole m right now is like I hate this city.

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Speaker 2: I heard this town. I hate this town. So he's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll go in the Navy. So now we're in June

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Speaker 2: ninety four. He goes through boot camp, he gets an

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Speaker 2: advanced Stinger missile certification shipped out to Bahrain. Oh and

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Speaker 2: he's quickly promoted. Now he's supporting a bunch of Stinger

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Speaker 2: missile operators in the Persian Gulf, which is a big

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Speaker 2: deal in nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And way better than shoveling manure in David City.

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Speaker 1: Right yeah, or riveting trailers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, riveting trailer parts.

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Speaker 1: Now, when you fight people in like the street or

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Speaker 1: in bars, do you tell him like, I'm gonna take

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Speaker 1: you downtown in David City.

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Speaker 2: There's there's trouble in David Cities, and it's in city

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Speaker 2: and it starts with it starts with his fist. But

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Speaker 2: again it wasn't enough. He gets that itch like he did,

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Speaker 2: you know in college, where he was like I really

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Speaker 2: wanted to do basketball, but I'd suck at basketball and

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. He must have been

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Speaker 2: pretty insufferable to the dudes around him, you know. He

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Speaker 2: gets a military promotion and is like I am better

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Speaker 2: than this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he's under twenty one in a strange place, living

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Speaker 2: with a bunch of other enlisted dudes where it's legal

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Speaker 2: to consume alcohol at eighteen. What do board soldiers do

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Speaker 2: you under those circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth, Oh, I don't want to know. What I do

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Speaker 1: want to know?

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Speaker 2: Actually they play Tetris no lots and lots of booze.

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Speaker 2: He drinks so much booze that he comes down with

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Speaker 2: a cute pancreatitus and nearly dies.

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Speaker 1: Like at the under twenty one a cute Oh goodness,

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Speaker 1: that's a lot he's drinking that that rot good.

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Speaker 2: He's got like a seventy year old liver. Uh So,

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Speaker 2: after a week at the Bahrainy Hospital, they ship him

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Speaker 2: back to Bethesda to finish off his term, and then

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Speaker 2: when the enlistment is done, he ends up in Lincoln, Nebraska,

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Speaker 2: and then back in David City, which you know is

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Speaker 2: thrilling for him. This time he takes up residence in

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Speaker 2: the glamorous shapeer Mayor his parents' basement. Okay, I made

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Speaker 2: that up myself.

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Speaker 1: I like this. That was really good. That's totally good.

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Speaker 1: So he's just sitting in the basement all jaundiced.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets a job in the cattle industry, actually

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Speaker 2: shoveling manure this time. Oh, cleaning out barns and dealing

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Speaker 2: with that side of the business, which you know fair

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Speaker 2: enough does suck.

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Speaker 1: So he's got to do it. Yeah, someone's got to

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Speaker 1: do it. Might as well be the kid with pink creatatus.

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Speaker 1: He again creatitis.

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Speaker 2: He runs into money problems again. Mister financial genius you know,

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Speaker 2: fifth grader or whatever, runs into money problems. It seems

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Speaker 2: he was either passing bad checks or very bad at

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Speaker 2: personal bookkeeping. Either way, Johnny Law catches up with him

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Speaker 2: his dad again, this time very sternly bails him out

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Speaker 2: of any immediate danger. After the bad Checks incident, he

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Speaker 2: goes back to what he knows, tries to reenlist in

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Speaker 2: the Navy. The Navy says no, thank you. They look

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Speaker 2: at his record, they're like yeah, yeah. So now he's

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Speaker 2: spending a lot of time with his friend Tom, both

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Speaker 2: of them trying to chase their depression away with hard

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Speaker 2: living and jobs they hate. Around this time, he and

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Speaker 2: Tom have an absolute epic throw down in the snow.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of a dumb story, so I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to tell you the whole thing, but basically it's like

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Speaker 2: drunk driving one off spinship throwing haymakers, petty insults and

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Speaker 2: as you know, Elizabeth hurt. People tend to wound those around.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so it's gruesome Toosome. They're just going around, like

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Speaker 1: just living the worst life in David City.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you know, they're working, you know, sixty hour

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Speaker 2: weeks at work and then they're boozing and they're like,

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00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 2: you know, looking for looking for college girls and Lincoln

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00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 2: the whole thing and visible all the time. After you know,

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Speaker 2: about a week after the fight, they end up in

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Speaker 2: a bar after exchanging awkward apologies like bros, de like, oh, dude,

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Speaker 2: I'm so oh my god, dude, I am so sorry,

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Speaker 2: like I was from. Then they have the kind of

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Speaker 2: conversation that those of us in the hindsight business call

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Speaker 2: a huge mistake. Oh no. It starts with Tom saying,

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Speaker 2: so what do you think about us robbing a bank?

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Speaker 1: Oh? That is like the worsd especially coming out of

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Speaker 1: Oh boy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was it though, that was it. They found

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Speaker 2: their cure for their terminal small town boredom and suffocating

301
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Speaker 2: small lives. Here's what Sean says, Here's how he remembers it.

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Speaker 2: Most people would have laughed that off. But to me,

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Speaker 2: the world was newly framed in that instant, Everything once

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Speaker 2: bleak was now interesting and new. The beauty of the

305
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,360
Speaker 2: idea was that we would either go down like Butch

306
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 2: and Sundance, or we would have the money to really live.

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Speaker 2: Either way it would be a big improvement. For the

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Speaker 2: first time in a long time, we were excited about

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Speaker 2: the future.

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Speaker 1: They were just following their spirit.

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Speaker 2: Well hot damn. Needless to say, Sean said, that sounds

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Speaker 2: like an absolutely capital idea. My good man. So Sean

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Speaker 2: gets home, he opens up Microsoft word Clippy pops up. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it looks like you're about to rob a bank? Can

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00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,400
Speaker 2: I offer some suggestions? First, you should figure out which

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Speaker 2: bank you will rob. Click more for more ideas, And.

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Speaker 1: He clicked word art and wrote bank robbery across the

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Speaker 1: top and wavy script like it was thinking totally.

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Speaker 2: So they get into Tom's car and they go north

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Speaker 2: to go bank shopping. Tom's father owned a small property

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Speaker 2: in that direction. Their plan gets a little bit confusing,

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Speaker 2: but let me tell you really quick, this is like

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Speaker 2: the thing they put the most thought into. They're gonna

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Speaker 2: stash their actual getaway car at Tom's dad's farm before

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Speaker 2: the robbery. That's location one. Okay, they pick out an

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Speaker 2: abandoned cornfield somewhere and stash an old grain truck there.

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Speaker 2: That's location two. Then they're going to drive a disposable

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Speaker 2: stolen car to the bank and drive it back to

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Speaker 2: location two, ditch it, grab the grain truck as car

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Speaker 2: number two to get them back to location one, then

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Speaker 2: pick up their real car for the actual getaway. You'll

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Speaker 2: double switch through. Yeah right, I mean, I guess it's fine,

333
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Speaker 2: Like it seems like over engineered.

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Speaker 1: But what's a vehicular shell game?

335
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Speaker 2: So they find their target, they decide to hold up

336
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 2: Petersburg State Bank. They case it three times. Tom wears

337
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 2: a baseball cap and a wig and probably put on

338
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,520
Speaker 2: a missus doubt fire accent, and he asks for a

339
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 2: tour of the safety deposit area. Oh really, really obvious.

340
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: Sean goes in twice and asks for a roll of

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Speaker 2: quarters each time.

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Speaker 1: It was playing it low. There.

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Speaker 2: They made hand drawings what they found. You know, they

344
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,960
Speaker 2: tried to let some time pass in order to remember

345
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,439
Speaker 2: the weirdos obviously casing the joint right now, Remember that

346
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,359
Speaker 2: whole passing bad checks issue. Yeah, Sean blew off his

347
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,720
Speaker 2: court appearance for that, So now he's got a bench

348
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,080
Speaker 2: warrant on top of it. Oh my god, call it

349
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Speaker 2: a sporting handicap.

350
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Speaker 1: I wonder why he wasn't able to follow through with call.

351
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,320
Speaker 2: So Sean and Tom are now back in David City.

352
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Speaker 2: Now they'll need to steal a car and also locate

353
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Speaker 2: some heaters because it gets cold in Nebraska. No, I

354
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Speaker 2: mean guns.

355
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Speaker 1: They're have to locate some gus the blower, Yeah.

356
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 2: A couple blowers. So Sean goes back to Clippy, who says,

357
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Speaker 2: you'll need something to put the money in, and then

358
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,640
Speaker 2: waves at the screen and minimizes. Sean grabs his dad's

359
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 2: old toolbox and puts some canvas bags in there. He

360
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 2: pulls together a duffel bag full of criming supplies and

361
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,439
Speaker 2: back to Clippy. You'll need to get away car. And

362
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: then Clippy blows a kiss over its shoulder.

363
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:52,679
Speaker 1: That's weird.

364
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 2: They find a car a few towns away in a

365
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,680
Speaker 2: church parking lot with the keys still in it, a

366
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 2: nice Chrysler New Yorker.

367
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,560
Speaker 1: God, God bless a Chrysler New.

368
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 2: York good old American leiaha car. Yes, uh so they

369
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: stashed the car in the grain truck where they need

370
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 2: them to be. They check into a CD motel using

371
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 2: Tom's real name.

372
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Speaker 1: Oh dumb?

373
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Speaker 2: Smart?

374
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,919
Speaker 1: Okay, is it so dumb? It's smart?

375
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,679
Speaker 2: It might be what will say? In fact, you know

376
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,640
Speaker 2: their room isn't ready yet. So let's take a.

377
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 1: Break, okay, and I'll wait in the car.

378
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 2: I'd like you to find things to do in Petersburg,

379
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,560
Speaker 2: Nebraska for a few hours while we take in some

380
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 2: lovely advertisements.

381
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: Easy enough, all right.

382
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,919
Speaker 2: Elizabeth, Elizabeth, wake up. You fell asleep on the nasty

383
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 2: couch of the motel lobby, reading hemphlets about ghost tours

384
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 2: and corn mazes.

385
00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 1: Where am I? Did you?

386
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,719
Speaker 2: Did you even hear any of those top shelf ads?

387
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 1: I feel like they like it was by osmosis, something

388
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 1: about LifeLock.

389
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't. Should we go back? Should we?

390
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah?

391
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 2: Run?

392
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:12,640
Speaker 1: Okay it again?

393
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: Well we'll spare you. It's Monday morning, August eighteenth, nineteen

394
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 2: ninety seven, and it's go time.

395
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: Mm.

396
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,479
Speaker 2: The boys wake up, shake off the bed bugs. They

397
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 2: drive the Ford Tempo to the grain truck, the grain

398
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 2: truck to the Chrysler. They're about to set sail towards

399
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 2: the bank in the stolen Chrysler. As they entered the

400
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 2: town of Petersburg, they see a cop car parked about

401
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 2: half a block away from the bank.

402
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: Woolf oh no.

403
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 2: They tool around outside of town a while and keep

404
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 2: making passes around the bank, but the cop core is

405
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:53,479
Speaker 2: still there. Think Rooseph's think, Elizabeth, Yeah, close your eyes.

406
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: My eyes are closed.

407
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 2: I would like you to picture it. You're a large

408
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 2: quadrupedal cree chewing on some delicious acorns by the side

409
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 2: of the road. You see, Elizabeth, Your highly active salivary

410
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,120
Speaker 2: glands produce enzymes that help deactivate secondary plant compounds such

411
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,160
Speaker 2: as tannins that disrupt digestion, so convenient. You're a white

412
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,359
Speaker 2: tailed deer and you've got no particular place to be.

413
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: You're standing outside your for now home, the remnants of

414
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 2: an old barn. Part of the roof fell in five

415
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: years ago, but it gives you decent protection from the

416
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 2: elements and lots of snacks. Plus it's got good bones

417
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,480
Speaker 2: and abundance of natural light. You're thinking of putting up

418
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 2: ship lap next fall. Your vision is, of course terrible,

419
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 2: given that you're a deer, but you look up instinctively

420
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 2: hearing the cheap roar of a Chrysler New Yorker pass.

421
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: I have great hearing.

422
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 2: Your great hearing picks up, squealing as the Chrysler flips

423
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 2: a you bone and comes to rest just outside of

424
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,360
Speaker 2: the barn structure. What is this? The boys hop out

425
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 2: and head for the barn, but by then you've spotted

426
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 2: some discarded okra. You're chowing down goons. Be damned, you

427
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 2: don't care. But the next thing you know, you smell something. No,

428
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 2: your friend, the rabbit doesn't have the winds. That's a

429
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 2: fart joke. Uh, that's burning hay that you smell.

430
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: Uh.

431
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: Oh, the boys have started a fire in the barn.

432
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:15,959
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do?

433
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: Wait, they start, Oh dough.

434
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 2: You panic, and then you do the only thing you

435
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: know how. You run real fast in the middle road

436
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: and just stand.

437
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 1: There and then get hit by a truck. Pretty much,

438
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: well that's pretty much all they know how to do.

439
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: There's an ellipses here, so we don't know what.

440
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: I filled in for you.

441
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 2: You see, the boys, we're hoping to lure the patrolman

442
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: away with this fire. Oh in their car, yeah right,

443
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: they get back in their car, they thoughtfully avoid you,

444
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: and they park up on a hill to watch. Nothing happens.

445
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 2: It's like an entire sleepy town rubbed its collective eyes,

446
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: looked at the weak plumes of smoke and said, who knows,

447
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 2: who cares?

448
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: They probably thought it was someone just burn and brush.

449
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently it was a It was a really like,

450
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,640
Speaker 2: it was more of a campfire than a raging barn fire.

451
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 2: It didn't work. Undeterred and driven by Shawn's need for

452
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 2: money to pay his lawyer for that bad checks thing,

453
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 2: and despite that stubborn patrol car's continuing presence, the bros

454
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 2: pressed on. They're locked in Elizabeth, Are you ready for

455
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 2: the terminally bored, thrill seeking gen X twenty somethings big

456
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 2: bank heist.

457
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 1: Oh you have no idea? Yes, okay, so.

458
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 2: Now it's Tuesday. They suit up Sean, who they agree

459
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 2: to call mister Red. They've seen reservoir.

460
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: Oh oh no.

461
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: Shawn is dressed as a construction worker with boots, coveralls,

462
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 2: a hard hat, and a big mask with eye holes.

463
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: Wait, a mask with like a I guess.

464
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: Scarecrow looking thing? Yeah?

465
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: Probably, Oh that's not suspicious. Was the other one dressed

466
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: as an Indian?

467
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 2: Just wait? He's carrying his dad's metal toolbox with the

468
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 2: canvas bags inside of it. Okay, you know he keeps

469
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: that thing on him.

470
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: And also he's got his daddy's toolbags.

471
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 2: And he's strapped. Also, patrol car is still there. But

472
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: screw it, we've gone this far. So he walks in.

473
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: First thing he does, he drops the toolbox, bang, gets

474
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: everyone's attention. He unzips his pant leg and pulls out

475
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: his ruffle, which is kind of the coolest scene. Wow,

476
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: he shouts, you.

477
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 1: Know, his pant leg he's got like a.

478
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 2: Zip up like those Adidas track suits.

479
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I was kind of hoping he just unzipped

480
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: his fly and.

481
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 2: Just dropped trout. He pulls out his heater.

482
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: Or he has like this the snap that like rip

483
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: away warm up pants.

484
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 2: This is a family show.

485
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: And then there's just him and his skid marked on pants.

486
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: I've just got a whole other mental picture right now.

487
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: He pulls up his cover all zip. Yeah, he's got

488
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: his uh, he's got his long gun. He shouts, this

489
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: is a robbery. A people are kind of smiling uncomfortably

490
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: and sweating profusely. There were lots of fibers in the

491
00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: late nineties.

492
00:23:59,240 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally.

493
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: So. Now Tom, who they agree to call mister Black,

494
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: comes in. So they've got mister red, mister Black. A

495
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: teller asks if this is some kind of joke. Sean

496
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: yells again, everybody get down. Now. People start to move

497
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: a little more alacrity. They hit the floor. Those bodies,

498
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 2: they allow them to hit the floor.

499
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: But they let the bodies hit the floor. Come on.

500
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: Tom grabs the canvas bags and pulls all the cash

501
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: into the teller drawers. Tom is getting nervous. He wants

502
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 2: to know what's going on outside, and in a moment

503
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: of unprofessionalism, Tom yells check the windows Hopwood instead of

504
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 2: check the windows, mister Red.

505
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, oops, always bet on black.

506
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: Now, all that's left to do is secure the bags

507
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: and lock the would be hostages away so they can

508
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 2: execute a quick getaway. Sean's checking his watch, seeing they're

509
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: already three minutes in. He's panicking a little. But they

510
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 2: managed to get everyone in the bank vault, lock him in.

511
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: They mosey on out of there and into the chrysler.

512
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's as big as a whale, so there's

513
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,360
Speaker 2: plenty of room for all those canvas bags that cant

514
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: They can.

515
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: Just set sail exactly. Wait, now, is he still wearing

516
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: the scare crow mass? That is terrifying. If I'm in

517
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: the bank and I work there and this dude's sweat

518
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: like limps in because he's got one leg as a

519
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: rifle and he's wearing a construction hard hat and then

520
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: like a potato sack with holes cut. Yeah, God, I

521
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: would just I would just I would just collapse if

522
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: I saw that.

523
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's it's funny you should say that.

524
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: Because there were a lot of articles in the paper,

525
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: local paper. He gets the banner press about what trauma

526
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: these people went through. And like I'll tell you disclaimer.

527
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: All these five bank robberies, no one shot, no one's

528
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: pistol whipped, Like, no violence happens. Yeah, and yet there

529
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: are all these like articles about the trauma these people

530
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: who live with forever. And granted it's tough to be

531
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: in a bank robbery, but oh yeah, yeah that's your point,

532
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it scarred them.

533
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: It's like it's a bank robbery and he's dressed like

534
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: nightmare fuel. Get out of here, yeah, like come.

535
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 2: On, uh so where are they? They high tail it

536
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: down the highway to the abandoned farm. They stashed the

537
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: Chrysler deep in the woods and pull their jukebox money

538
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: out of it. They switch their clothes from construction worker

539
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: to farm hand. Now they hop in the grain truck

540
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,160
Speaker 2: and they head towards the location one. As they get

541
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: on their way, the portable scanners go nuts. The police

542
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: had gotten there already and removed everyone from the vault.

543
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: They had already had really good descriptions of Sewan and Tom,

544
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: although not the faces obviously. They both kind of slump

545
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: a little lower in their seats in the grain truck. Next,

546
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: they hear the tone on the scanner change cops are

547
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: yelling that they have the vehicle in their sights and

548
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,479
Speaker 2: they're going to take it down. They look around terrified.

549
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, they're on to us, like we are hoes.

550
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: This is it. Yeah, they're still in the truck bed

551
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: or Sean's in the truck bed. He holds tighter to

552
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 2: his rifle and he braces. He expects to see the

553
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: blue and reds any minute now. Two minutes pass. Nothing, huh.

554
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: Then the scanner lights up again. We got them, say

555
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 2: the cops. No sign of weapons or money. Turns out

556
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: they nabbed two twin eighteen year old boys who had

557
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 2: done absolutely nothing wrong.

558
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: Oops, small wearing construction clothes.

559
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're roughly the shape of humans, five foot something

560
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: and you have two arms. So, Elizabeth, they done did it.

561
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: They got away with about fifty dollars fifty grand.

562
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: That's a lot, because most of these stick ups they

563
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: seemed to only come away with like, you know, several thousand.

564
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: At the moment. They were kind of smart about it,

565
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: Like they picked a bank that had had an ATM,

566
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 2: that seemed like it was in a big enough town

567
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: that would have some commerce, but not big enough they

568
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 2: would actually have a police station, which is part of

569
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 2: why they were surprised there was a cop there. Yeah,

570
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: let me tell you about how they split it. Tom

571
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: took the bulk of his earnings in rolls of quarters.

572
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: He had taken everything from the tills, including the quarters.

573
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: He had said before the robbery he wanted to change

574
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: so that quote he would never have to scrange quarters

575
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: for the coin opp laundry again.

576
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: Oh my god, little pinball wizard, how heavy is that

577
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: twenty five grand in quarters?

578
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean maybe it was like five grand. I

579
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: don't know, Like, yeah, blessed.

580
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: And so you said they got fifty Yeah they did.

581
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: But oh but he took the bulk.

582
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: Of it each Yeah, or like he took a section

583
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: of it.

584
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 2: Okay, I got it, and it's you know, it's Sean's recollection.

585
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, dude, buy a washer and dry that's right,

586
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: your head on, Dan Sears. Get a warranty.

587
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, get an apartment that has a washer dryer.

588
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: How about that.

589
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: There are a lot of options.

590
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 2: Tom, you know, as you can tell, is thinking about

591
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: other things. He decides he's going to get off the

592
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: fast moving bank robbery train and uses money to go

593
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: to college. Oh, which is a smart move. Sean, who

594
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 2: remember needed the money for his previous legal entanglement, does

595
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: no one to quit. He's going to press his luck.

596
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: Maybe he's finally found his special purpose in life. Perhaps,

597
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: and it's in this time. So we're around October. This

598
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: happened in August. A couple months after this job. Sean

599
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 2: also gets popped for procuring alcohol for his brother, who

600
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: is a miner. So he sent it to a five

601
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: hundred dollars fine and spend sixty days in county jail.

602
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: Wait, so he robs a bank but doesn't get caught

603
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: by his alcohol for a miner gets caught.

604
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like, oh my god, Keystone cops.

605
00:28:59,400 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: Right.

606
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: So after all that he gets out, he's thinking about

607
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: his next job, his next bank job. He moves to Lincoln.

608
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: He finds an apartment with a bunch of college dudes.

609
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: This guy Craig, a friend from high school and fellow traveler,

610
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: shows up. Craig had a much tougher start to life

611
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: than Sean, and then he'd gone through a remarkably similar

612
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 2: patch as Sean had, kind of like you know, getting

613
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: kicked out of armed forces for one reason or another.

614
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: But now Sean, now Craig is living in a car.

615
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: Sean is a really nice guy, and he's like, I'd

616
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: like to help this guy out. So he asked the

617
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: other dudes if this guy can crash with him for

618
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: a while. These dudes, you know, they shrug in between

619
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 2: bites of hot dog and buns soaked in lemonade and

620
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, sure, dude, whatever, they're what they're warming

621
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: up for every.

622
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: Course they're getting gus I guess.

623
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: So now it's about five months on. Sean's money is

624
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: running dry because we've established he cannot handle money, so

625
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: he's prepping for his next bank job. He offers to

626
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: cut Craig in and see if you'll come along. Craig's like, sure,

627
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: doesn't batter not. Now, we've talked on the show about

628
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: a lot of ridiculous criminals who loved us at the details,

629
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: right mm hmmm, where like the whole heist becomes kind

630
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: of an extended Martha Stewart craft project.

631
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: Oh totally, and I love them.

632
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: This is very much not Sean. No sew Sean. A

633
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: lot less planning goes on into the second one, and

634
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: Sean himself admits that as time goes on, his heist

635
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: get more and more half assed. He goes from elaborate

636
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: multi car slide of hand and costume changes to more

637
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: of a brute force and prey kind of thing. And

638
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: as much as he manages to slog through five of

639
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: these things, you don't get the sense that he loved

640
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: the criming life.

641
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: No, No, it doesn't sound like it.

642
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: So like is falling out of college after the scholarship,

643
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: and like he's drinking his way out of the Navy,

644
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: and like his small score of a free happy meal

645
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: in McDonald's monopoly game, Elizabeth, he got a taste of

646
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 2: something bigger and didn't really care for it all that much. No,

647
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like it, So okay. The second arm robbery.

648
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: This time they target a bank near Lincoln, which is

649
00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: a little riskier because it's like, you know, a bigger,

650
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: bigger place, more like county stuff, state stuff. We're now

651
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: in December nineteen ninety seven. This is a saline state

652
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: bank of Hallam. Hallum's a tiny town, but it's on

653
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 2: the outskirts of Lincoln. This time they get in and

654
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 2: out in three minutes, and they don't lock the onlookers

655
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: in the vault. This time they could hear police choppers

656
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 2: on their way out. But it was a real foggy

657
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 2: day and that seems to have given them the cover

658
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: they needed. Okay, the hall this time around twelve grand.

659
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: Eh, bigger city, and they didn't get more money.

660
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they just you know, they didn't. They didn't case

661
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 2: the place.

662
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: They lucked out that first one.

663
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: I think so too. But by this time Sean had

664
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: rung up a big tab with that lawyer representing him

665
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: on the bad checks. Most of his six grand goes

666
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: to the attorney fees a Hopwood always pays his debts.

667
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: Yep.

668
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: He hands the lawyer a paper grocery bag full of cash,

669
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: mostly ones, and tells him they are tips from a

670
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: restaurant job. Who would you have told him?

671
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'd say, like, you know, I run a

672
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: coin op laundry.

673
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: I'm a dancer, I think is what I would have

674
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: gone with, Like it's your second job.

675
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: No, well, I mean it's sloths. People don't tip in dollars.

676
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: They've tip in twenties.

677
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: The acorns or.

678
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: Corn cobs. I don't know what do like leaves? I

679
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: guess I don't know, something like low calorie because they

680
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: don't expend any energy. So yeah, they're like fiscal. That's

681
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: for Koala is down the block.

682
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 2: David, you got you gotta wait, like your home growing

683
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: your look at this tree until it's like there's leaves again, and.

684
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: They just come and they like squeeze hot chocolate into

685
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: our mouths. Way there, you.

686
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: Just dropped the g O, I know. So that's it

687
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: for the second bank. Craig gets his cut. Sean's descriptions

688
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: of these robberies get shorter and shorter in his book.

689
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: Maybe he's too grosseddad about all his own behavior, or

690
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: maybe they're just all a blur.

691
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you say book?

692
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: Yes, so this is not a spoiler. He did not

693
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 2: his his like amazing second career is not.

694
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: Author just okay, okay, I like that.

695
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: That wouldn't be fair. No, so let's see. So they're

696
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: now a duo though, Craig and Sean the magnificent pair.

697
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: The next the next rob York State Banking, Gresham. A

698
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: few months later, we're now March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety eight.

699
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 2: They get about sixteen grand and now we're at the

700
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 2: fourth Bank, Bank of Peru. Sean artfully goes in disguised

701
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: as quote a dirty homeless guy and started screaming like

702
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: the characters in pulp fiction who robbed the Diner. Oh no,

703
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: you just can't escape movie references.

704
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: And in the nineties you can't get away from Tarantino references.

705
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: No, I mean, yeah, but it is just.

706
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: That cinematic draw for them.

707
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: For yeah, I wish he had done the be cool.

708
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: That probably would have been a yeah move.

709
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: That's true.

710
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 2: Total take on this one is about twenty five grand, Okay,

711
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: but this time they are a hair's breadth away from

712
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: getting caught, like a dog's hair away from getting.

713
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: Adent hair away.

714
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you get it. After the Caper, Sean gets pulled

715
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: over in a speed trap, just after dropping Craig off Creigor's.

716
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: McGregor.

717
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: He's got a handgun and fifteen grand in the trunk

718
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: and he's pulled over in a speed trap. That's a

719
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: good look, and you know they look him up. Beep,

720
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: Seawan's warrant from the bad checks come up. When the

721
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: cops do their search, they get so excited about having

722
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: him dead to rights for the warrant that they forget

723
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: to search his car.

724
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: No way, well, I mean on a speed ticket. I mean,

725
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: even if he didn't have the warrants, I don't think

726
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: they would have searched it for a speedy ticket.

727
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 2: So he gets picked up in jailed friend coming.

728
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: Made a warrant for that.

729
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the gun and the cash are all still there

730
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 2: in the trunk when he picks up the car. No way,

731
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: he's like he's blessed, like absolutely hashtag blessed. So now

732
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: there have been four armed robberies the Greater Lincoln area

733
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: in a pretty short period of time, right from the

734
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 2: first one in August ninety seven, this fourth one was

735
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 2: in May ninety eight.

736
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: Oh wow, he's really cram him in there.

737
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: Nine months by now. The FBI is looking over local

738
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: law enforcement's shoulder and scouring for patterns, and the local

739
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: cops have a reasonable sketch of Sean now with the face.

740
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: His dad actually sees this on local TV and like

741
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: lock himself in the office and starts crying, so his

742
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: dad knows what's up. Yeah, yeah, Sean could sense that

743
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: the walls were closing in. Though that's such a podcast cliche.

744
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: I'm really embarrassed that I put it in this. There

745
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: should be like a jar, I have to drop a fiver.

746
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: Into something exactly well, head head down to sloths five.

747
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like we're take your cares away.

748
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: If you tip, if you tip a dancer at sloths

749
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: five bucks, she'll just roll over on the stage, pull

750
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: the blanket further up.

751
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: Is that wow? Okay? Is that good or bad? You

752
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: want to Victorian?

753
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: It's very Victorian. Show a little bit of ankle.

754
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: Getting I'm getting heated. So let's take another break. When

755
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: we come back, I will take you through the final

756
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: ill advised bank job and how Sean's life gets flipped

757
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 2: turns upside down Elizabeth Dave after the Four Capers. Now

758
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: Sean has a reputation among his friends and family. It's

759
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: like he sent out an email and he was like, hey, everybody,

760
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 2: it's like twenty percent off.

761
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: His Christmas letter. He sends herund well, this year robbed

762
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: a couple banks.

763
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: But they all know. And he's got siblings, his brother Brooke.

764
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: He's got another brother, Brett, who thought it was really cool.

765
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: Like I said, his dad knew. There's this other guy

766
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: named Tyler who is like a medium level weed dealer

767
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: and gun supplier who also hooked him up with stolen cars.

768
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: And Sean was spending a lot of time with Tyler,

769
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: a far cry from his old Larry Bird lifestyle. Seawan

770
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 2: is now, you know, taking bong hits, playing video games

771
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 2: and watching reruns of Cheers in the Cosby Show.

772
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: Do we know that's so different from the Larry Bird lifestyle. Well,

773
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: that's who's to say. I don't know. I don't know

774
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: how he lives now. His brother is named Brooke.

775
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: He's got to Brooke and Brett.

776
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: Do you think Brooke's name is spelled b are uk?

777
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: I wish? Yeah, he's got the double o's.

778
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, No, no, I'm telling you his brother's name

779
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: is belled b are you seeing?

780
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: Well, how about how about we compromise. He's got the

781
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: double o's, but that becomes his nickname. Everyone calls him

782
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: double oh.

783
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: Oh. Okay, that's perfect. That's how this happens.

784
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 2: Okay. The big problem for Sean, though, is not with

785
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: Double Oh. It comes when he finds out his brother Brett, Craig,

786
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 2: Craig's little brother Cody, and their friend Harley, bunch of

787
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 2: seventeen year olds are all themselves now planning a bank job.

788
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: He had captured, Yes, he had captured the hearts and

789
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 2: minds of a generation.

790
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

791
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: So Shan tries to play the big brother card on

792
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 2: Brett and order him not to and you know, give

793
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: him noogies and rope burns and all this, like, hey,

794
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: don't rob the bank, come on the But at that point,

795
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 2: what credibility does Sean have.

796
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: Right, Who are you going to tell me what to

797
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: do from watching you, Sean?

798
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: If you don't let me do this, there's never gonna

799
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: be a bank left for me to rob, exactly. But

800
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: you know, Brett wasn't about to let Sean have all

801
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 2: the fun for himself. So they make a deal. The

802
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: David City U twenty two's as I call them, which

803
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: in soccer that's what they call the under twenty two

804
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 2: professional leagues.

805
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 1: M huh.

806
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: They could help out Sean on Sean's next and final

807
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 2: big bank job, and Sean would allow them to what

808
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: their beaks in case you.

809
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: Were worried, right, a little apprenticeship, Yeah, but under.

810
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: No circumstances could they go inside the bank with him.

811
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 2: And after that they all agree, We're going to retire

812
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 2: from the game, like this is our last score, which

813
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: always works in the movies.

814
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: And we've heard that on this show so many times

815
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: as one last score, and then I'm retiring.

816
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 2: So Sean reflects, bringing in Brett is the moment of

817
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: my past for which I have the least patience or understanding.

818
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: It's not that he has a regret, he has the

819
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: least patience or understanding of what he was.

820
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: He was out of his mind. Yeah yeah, I mean,

821
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: well that is the thing, like we don't know of

822
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: any any drug activity going on here other than you know,

823
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: just like a little yeah, yeah, a little too. But

824
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: but it's not later on like like there's an allegation.

825
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: It's not clear anyway. Uh s. Shawn and Craig at

826
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 2: this point had already selected their fifth and final target,

827
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 2: which is going to be Farmer's National Bank in Pilger

828
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: or Pilger p I L G E R.

829
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: You can say it both ways. I mean, who knows

830
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: from Nebraska, but I'll say on authority you can. You

831
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: can say it how.

832
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: Oh I see, Okay, Yes, it's both a different eras

833
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 2: in time it was owned by different.

834
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: If you're on the left side of town, you say

835
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: it one way and on the right side, and it's

836
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: not northwest you no, it's left or right side.

837
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: I'm there when it was French occupied and it was

838
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: called perfect Okay. So the U twenty two's Bretton Harley

839
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: steal the car for the getaway use. This time, that's

840
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: like their big job, but they do a half assed job,

841
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: like a seventeen year old is gonna do. They stashed

842
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: it in a nearby abandoned farm, which seems like a

843
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 2: theme mysteriously like the next day it's back where it was,

844
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 2: So they picked a not so abandoned farm.

845
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: Is basically yeah. Yeah.

846
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: So they find another car, but it runs out of gas.

847
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: Now they all walk up to a farmhouse to borrow

848
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: some gas, which again seems like a dumb ass move. Yeah,

849
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: and those old folks charm the pants out of this

850
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 2: robbery crew. Sean's there. Sean gets so warmed up he

851
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: even tells them they're all from David City. Oh no,

852
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 2: but they have no gas. So then the robbery crew

853
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,919
Speaker 2: to a gas station. They all turn their pockets out

854
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: like empty promises from a monopoly and realize they have

855
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: no way to pay, so they fuel up, but then

856
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: tore ass out of there, leaving one of the bigger

857
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 2: criminal footprints you can leave before a crime has ever

858
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: been committed. Right, dummy, dumb, dumb. So then the sad

859
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,240
Speaker 2: sacks the transmission goes on the way to the bank,

860
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 2: like drops the tranny, like.

861
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: They say on a stolen car, on a stolen car,

862
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: Oh my god, so it's out of gas. Transmission is

863
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: on its last legs. Yeah, gives out when they have it.

864
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: They finally dump that one. They find a third car

865
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: and that one sticks, so finally, And I think I'm

866
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: actually getting sick of bank robberies and describing them at

867
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: this point like yeah, yeah, YadA YadA, stick it, I

868
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 2: get it, I get it. Sean does all the dirty

869
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: work right, so he doesn't have much of a plan.

870
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: He's running out of patience too. He walks into the

871
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: bank brandishing a handgun and screaming blah blah blah. He

872
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 2: walks to the registers. It said he like used the

873
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: gun to scoop the cash out of this tills. But

874
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: I don't really see that.

875
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: Well let's say he did. Let's say that the gun,

876
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: like the handle at the bottom he had welded like

877
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: a large serving spoon on it, I like, or like

878
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: a soup ladle.

879
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 2: Or what about one of those grabbers from the Straight Story?

880
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: Perfect, perfect good. He's like, Look, if you're going to

881
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 1: modify a weapon, do it in a utilitarian way.

882
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: I love it. And some people like a bump stock.

883
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: I like, you know, a grab like a grabber. Yeah.

884
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 2: Uh so okay, so he's got that.

885
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: He gets all the grabbers.

886
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got the grabber gun. Uh he uh. He

887
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 2: goes into the vault, he gets the stuff out, maneuvers

888
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 2: into a bag. Customers and staff not okay. People are

889
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 2: running out of the back screaming. I'm picturing like they've

890
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: waving their hands around like the But Sean manages to

891
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: get done. He gets out. Craig's little brother Cody is

892
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: there waiting in the getaway car, like leaning against it.

893
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: They know how to do this this time. Sean gets

894
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: away with between one hundred and fifteen and a hundred

895
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: more than thirty thousand dollars, get out way way more

896
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: than he expected. Oh yeah, they It turns out they

897
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: had just received a shipment of ATM cash, which he

898
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: had no way of knowing. It just all worked out,

899
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: dumb luck.

900
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

901
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 2: So they're also like those crisp bills that smell real good.

902
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: I like my dead president's crisy.

903
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: So Sean heads to Omaha. He buys a fancy our

904
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: money suit for an upcoming wedding he checks into the

905
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: Double Tree for some of them free cookies. I love

906
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: those free cookies. At this point, the FBI had all

907
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: but made Sean and much of the crew. The first

908
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: one to go down is little Harley, one of the

909
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,479
Speaker 2: U twenty two's Harley. Well, Harley gets popped for something

910
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 2: minor but had way too much cash on him.

911
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: As you know, I'm going to pretend in my head

912
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: that Harley's eight years old.

913
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: Continue, so all the mistakes start adding up on Sean.

914
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: I've got some details. I think you're gonna have to

915
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: skip them. One that I'll give you is there's just,

916
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 2: like you know, a comedy of details. Sure, the couple

917
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: they tried to get the gas from.

918
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: The ones that supplied them with baked goods befriended them though.

919
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, last couple they talked to the people at the

920
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: gas station who they had stiffed, and then they all

921
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 2: go to the cops together like I think of a clue.

922
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's detectives.

923
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: So that last job is on June twenty sixth, nineteen

924
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: ninety eight. The FBI arrest Sewn at the Double Tree

925
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: in Omaha. On the thirtieth of June, like four days later,

926
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 2: they also grabbed Cody Bach. That's Craig's brother, little brother.

927
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 2: So I have Sean, Harley and Cody, two of whom

928
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: are under eighteen. Oh boy, so that's it. This is

929
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 2: all just for the part, for that one bank job.

930
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: But the connections start being seen. The case gets transferred

931
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 2: to federal court July eighth, nineteen ninety eight, which you know,

932
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: everyone's sweating, and I won't go into all the details

933
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 2: on how they tied them all together. Broke the case

934
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: wide open. Most of it just like went through the

935
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: U twenty two's and their friend's big mouse and kind

936
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: of amateur hour. Right now, Remember Shawn's friend Tom, who

937
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: called it quits after the first bank job and decided

938
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 2: to move on with his life.

939
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he used his Yeah, he exactly used it

940
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: to pay for college.

941
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: Well, a year and a half later, the Feds nabbed

942
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 2: Tom right on his college campus. They are no, yeah,

943
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,320
Speaker 2: they're waiting outside of his classroom. He's taking a test.

944
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: They put the cuffs on just as he finishes up

945
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: and walks out.

946
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: Well, he's now the coolest guy on campus.

947
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was also in a criminal justice degree program.

948
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: Oh stop it. Yeah, oh my god.

949
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: He pleads guilty. He gets four years, nine months in prison,

950
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 2: then supervised release, and forty eight k in restitution. I

951
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 2: don't know how that's like half the job plus some

952
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:31,439
Speaker 2: maybe damage or something.

953
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, probably.

954
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: Younger brother, Brett Hopwood not double O. He's a senior

955
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: in high school, but they try him as an adult ouch.

956
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: He pleads guilty. He gets twelve to thirty months. They

957
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: do let him finish off his extracurriculars since technically the

958
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: robbery happened while school was not in session, so you know,

959
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 2: he can play his baseball playoffs or whatever.

960
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, like before he asked to report for jail. Yeah,

961
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's incredible.

962
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: Among the other U twenty two's, Harley gets one to

963
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: three years minus time served. Corey gets two to four

964
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 2: years minus time served. His brother Craig Big Daddy, he

965
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: gets thirteen years thirteen Yeah.

966
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean that's like four bank corrupting minors. Yeah.

967
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So now we get to Sean. Sean starts off

968
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: pleading not guilty, but changes his plea because each of

969
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: the five robberies carried a max of twenty years in

970
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: federal penn each, he becomes a cooperating witness against Tyler,

971
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: who I think has the government named Glenn Woodard. I

972
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: wasn't positive, but it seemed like they must be the

973
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: same dude, or else he's two or separate. Yeah, Glenn

974
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: the creator, Yeah, Glenn, Glenn the Creator. He attests to

975
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: Glenn the Creator providing the guns and stolen cars and drugs.

976
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 2: So Glenn gets six counts of aiding in a bedding. Okay,

977
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: that's ten years in federal which you know, remember, as

978
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 2: we know from the show, you don't get any parole

979
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: in federal prison. Sean from that is able to plea

980
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 2: down to twelve years and three months in federal prison.

981
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: He also has to make one hundred and thirty four

982
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: thousand restitution like immediately.

983
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: Oh wow, good luck.

984
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: And the judge, this guy's name is Judge Kopp says

985
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: this is a tragedy. It sickens me to have to

986
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: sentence this young man. By all accounts, Sean came across

987
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: as like a pretty even keeled person in court. He

988
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: was smart, he was attentive, he told the truth. He's

989
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: a former basketball star who everybody knew, like people in

990
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: the courthouse knew. One of the dispatchers from one of

991
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,760
Speaker 2: these crimes who had called it in she was marrying

992
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: his point guard from the basketball team. Like it is

993
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: a small town.

994
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: Small town, Yeah, it's David's city.

995
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, like it just didn't make a lot of sense.

996
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 2: And the judge was just like, I hate that all

997
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: has happened. I don't know why it happened. And the

998
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: thing that I was going to say is, like Sean

999
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 2: in his what is it called, like his declaration, there's

1000
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 2: a word for that.

1001
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: Declamation, no allocution.

1002
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: Allocution, that's right in Sean's what's another funny word for that? Yeah,

1003
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: and Sean's cuticle, he says husness. Yeah. He says that

1004
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: he did it to get money for drugs, and I

1005
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't see that anywhere, Like you don't need

1006
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 2: that much for weed, And he didn't say he was dealing,

1007
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: and like it's just not in the narrative. So I

1008
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 2: don't know if he just like weird fludged that one

1009
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: because he didn't have another answer.

1010
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: But well, maybe what he was getting the money for

1011
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: was so embarrassing that it would be better just to

1012
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: say it was for drugs.

1013
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe it was. And when it came to

1014
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: book time, like he didn't want to talk about that,

1015
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 2: which is fair, you know, maybe yeah, I don't know,

1016
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: but anyway, he does say, it's sentencing. Quote. Through this

1017
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 2: whole thing, I have become a better person. Unlike most

1018
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: people in the system. I had a good, loving family

1019
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 2: that raised me the right way. I have no excuse,

1020
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 2: which is mobile of him, right, Yeah, that is Judge.

1021
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 2: Kopp replies, we'll know in about thirteen years if you

1022
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: meant what you said. Oh yeah. As it turns out,

1023
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: Sean does mean what he says. From the time he's

1024
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: in federal custody all the way until he finishes his

1025
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: sentence in two thousand and nine, he's growing into a

1026
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 2: better person. And I'm got to tell you about it. Yeah,

1027
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: your face is like on the floor.

1028
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm shocked, right, Like, this doesn't happen, right, It

1029
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: never works out this way.

1030
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: So he does his time at FCI Peakin in Illinois, Pekin.

1031
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: Or Pekin it goes any way, you like, Oh okay.

1032
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: But Paul, and you know, federal prison is extremely difficult,

1033
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 2: but he figures out how to navigate the system over time.

1034
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,479
Speaker 2: Most of his book, which is called it's called law

1035
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 2: Man Memoirs of a jailhouse. Hmmm, I'll tell you later.

1036
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 2: Most of this book is really about that time in

1037
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: his life, so if you're interested, I highly recommend picking

1038
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: it up. Okay, But what's important is that while he's

1039
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 2: in prison, a job opens up in the prison library

1040
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: and Sean takes it. He has to share it with

1041
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: some of the gangs who are dealing weed in the back,

1042
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: but he figures all that how to work around that.

1043
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: Over time in the library, he teaches himself how to

1044
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: research cases for the guys around him and provide like

1045
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 2: basic procedural law advice. He quickly becomes a trusted jailhouse

1046
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: legal assistant, and more so than any of the other

1047
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: short term successes he has earlier in life, he's really

1048
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 2: into it, Like he's like, I found it, I found

1049
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 2: my special purpose.

1050
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: This is it. Yeah.

1051
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And remember he walked in doing absolutely nothing about

1052
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: the law and like five months of college.

1053
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1054
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: So in two thousand and two he has a major breakthrough.

1055
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 2: He uses the library typewriter to bang out a a

1056
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,760
Speaker 2: cert petition for his fellow inmate, John Fellers. A cert

1057
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 2: is basically an appeal to the Supreme Court. This is

1058
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 2: a crapshoot kind of fireling. Like every inmate fills one out,

1059
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 2: nobody expects to get it right, and even the best

1060
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: lawyers in the country they're like, yeah, this probably isn't

1061
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: gonna work. Well, it works. Shawn's petition is one of

1062
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 2: seven that are chosen amongst seven two hundred that are submitted.

1063
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: No way, and.

1064
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 2: Next it lands on the desk of the US Solicitor

1065
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: General at the time, Seth Waxman, who said it was

1066
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: one of the best he had ever seen.

1067
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 1: You're kidding, wow, And this is for another inmate.

1068
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 2: It's not for himself, right, this is for this guy,

1069
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 2: John Feller's another inmate who is serving time with him.

1070
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 2: Waxman likes it so much he's like, you know what,

1071
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: I'll hop on. He takes the case on with John Hopwood.

1072
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 2: They win a nine zero unanimous decision in the Supreme Court.

1073
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: You're kidding.

1074
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: His fellow inmates sentence is knocked down by four years.

1075
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: Wow.

1076
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: At this point, if you're not rooting for the guy

1077
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 2: out in rude, dude, Land, I don't know, go fly

1078
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: kite exactly.

1079
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: He's now David City's finest.

1080
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. So then in two thousand and five he does

1081
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: it again. He lands another Supreme Court appeal hearing for

1082
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 2: an inmate getting his decision vacated and sent back to

1083
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 2: a lower court. Oh wow, he does that. He helps

1084
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: other guys get sentence productions from three years to ten years, right,

1085
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 2: like his best one. Incredible, I'm not kidding.

1086
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1087
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: While he's in prison, he also reconnected with the girl

1088
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 2: he had a huge crush on in high school and

1089
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: Marie Metzner. Is she a CEO from a little David City. No,

1090
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 2: she's like coming to visit him. Here's what happens. Shawn's

1091
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: mom was working for Anne Marie's dad at a pet

1092
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: medicine supplier back in David City. Anne Marie asks Shawn's

1093
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: mom about him, like, hey, how's that guy doing, writes

1094
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: to him in prison, and she visits and they hit

1095
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 2: it off. And what he says is she was wearing

1096
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 2: an engagement ring the first time she comes in to visit.

1097
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: The next time she comes in to visit, she's not

1098
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: wearing an engagement.

1099
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 1: Oh dang, but she's just cheeking him some gaba penin.

1100
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: I didn't know that was the thing. So they discover

1101
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: they both had crushes on each other in high school.

1102
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: And when he gets out in August of nine, they

1103
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: get married and they've been together ever since. They have

1104
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 2: two kids.

1105
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: Wow, happily. Ever after, what does he do now that

1106
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:49,839
Speaker 1: he's out?

1107
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 2: So his meteoric rise in law circles continued once he

1108
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 2: got out, right, he tracks down a job opening first

1109
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 2: thing at Cockle Law Brief Printing Company, which is a

1110
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: great name that they're only one of five firms in

1111
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 2: the country that helps lawyers prep filings for the Supreme Court.

1112
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: Kind of perfect for that, right, Yeah, but he's worried about,

1113
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 2: you know, having the record, he's a felon and everything.

1114
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: So his buddy Fellers, who had helped get out four

1115
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: years earlier, he's now running a car dealership. He gives

1116
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: him a vintage Mercedes with like, you know, like it

1117
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 2: looks really nice. It's old, but he's like, here, thank

1118
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: you for getting me out. So that helps, and he

1119
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: calls in a fave from Seth Waxman, now formercial listener

1120
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 2: general who picks up the horn personally and calls this,

1121
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 2: you know, RinkyDink Law Publishing Company and is like, hey,

1122
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: can you give my due to break and they do

1123
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: so that gets it done. So then he he had

1124
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: been taking law courses while at FCI Pekin, and then

1125
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 2: he enrolls at University of Washington Law School in twenty eleven.

1126
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 2: Next he interns for a federal District Court judge in Seattle.

1127
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: Then he works in the Federal Public Defender's office. He

1128
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: keeps climbing. Now he's got a gig clerking for Judge

1129
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: Janice Rogers Brown of the US Court Appeals of the

1130
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: d C Circuit in twenty fourteen.

1131
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: Whoa so.

1132
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: Twenty fifteen, he lands a highly competitive teaching fellowship at

1133
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 2: Georgetown's Litigation Clinic. Oh you're kidding, like yeah, And he

1134
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 2: does so well with that they then give him a

1135
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 2: professorship at Georgetown Law School. And that's what he's doing.

1136
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: Now what Yeah, this is amazing.

1137
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 2: Dude has made it.

1138
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1139
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: But that's not all, Elizabeth. Oh, the most most satisfying

1140
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 2: of all these things, he gets a Maya kulpa in

1141
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 2: writing from the federal judge who sentenced him.

1142
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: You're kidding as perfect?

1143
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: You remember blogs?

1144
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do remember blog Okay.

1145
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: So in twenty thirteen that Judge Richard G. Kopp, He

1146
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 2: wrote an entry in his personal public blog which.

1147
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,919
Speaker 1: Was called blogging it Out blogging it out.

1148
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 2: It was called Hercules and the Empire. This was the

1149
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 2: era when like everybody who was anybody had a blog.

1150
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: Everybody had a blog.

1151
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: This this blog is now defunct, but you can still

1152
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 2: see it in the Internet archives.

1153
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, way back.

1154
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,480
Speaker 2: Nice support the Internet archive, by the way, you know,

1155
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 2: like such good work.

1156
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: It's incredible.

1157
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,280
Speaker 2: So his post is reflecting on an article all about

1158
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: Shawn hopwoods accomplishments to date. In the body of the post,

1159
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 2: Judge cop Frights. These are like bullet points. One. Hopwood

1160
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 2: deserves all the credit in the world. I hope he

1161
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,800
Speaker 2: makes the best of an astounding opportunity. Two. Hopwood proves

1162
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 2: that my sentencing instincts suck. When I set him to prison,

1163
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 2: I would have bet the farm and all the animals

1164
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: that Hopwood would fail miserably as a productive citizen when

1165
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: he finally got out of prison. My gut told me

1166
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: that Hopwood was a punk, all mouthed very little else.

1167
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 2: My viscera was wrong.

1168
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: Can you imagine, But he his sentencing. I don't think

1169
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: his sentencing was wrong. I think that he Sean would

1170
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: not have done this were he not put in the

1171
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: position of being confined and being forced to do this,

1172
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: you know.

1173
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: Well, let's see what Sean says back.

1174
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, let's see what Sean says because.

1175
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: You've got this like in the comments. The comments go

1176
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 2: on and on and on, and you've got like, you know,

1177
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,319
Speaker 2: wife guys and reply guys in there, but like eventually

1178
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: Sewn shows up. Yeah, this is just the first paragraph,

1179
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: do you judge Kopf. I wouldn't say that your sentencing

1180
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 2: instincts suck. While I meant what I said at sentencing,

1181
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 2: I was hardly the person that could back it up.

1182
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 2: I was a reckless and selfish young man back then.

1183
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 2: I changed. I think most of us changed from the

1184
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: age of twenty two to thirty eight, and many, like me,

1185
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: outgrow the irresponsibility and foolishness. I can't tell you how

1186
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: many law enforcement officers, including prosecutors, have come up to

1187
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,800
Speaker 2: me and said something similar to this tears in their eyes, sir, sir. Yeah,

1188
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: I know your story, and I too committed some crimes

1189
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 2: when I was young, although not in the category of

1190
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: bank robberies, and I was lucky enough to not get caught.

1191
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: They changed and channeled their energies and became responsible professionals.

1192
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: I did too.

1193
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, is not that amazing. I think the thing is

1194
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: is that we act like everyone that education is one

1195
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: size fits all and that when you're eighteen you go

1196
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: right to college and that's the time for you to

1197
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: do it. And if not, then you know, you go

1198
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: into the workforce. But not everyone neat can do that.

1199
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: And obviously for Sean his I mean, it's not good

1200
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: to rob banks in the meantime, but his development was

1201
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,239
Speaker 1: later on, like his you know, figuring out what he

1202
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 1: wanted to do, where, why he was supposed to be here.

1203
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: And it sucks that he had to do it in prison,

1204
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: in a federal facility, but you know, better less than

1205
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: some of the state facilities.

1206
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 2: Did I just hear a ridiculous takeaway?

1207
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: I think you just heard a ridiculous takeaway. Well, my

1208
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: other takeaway is it please tell me that when like that,

1209
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: you often say to your wife like, hey, welcome to

1210
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: David's city, and then she just rolls her eyes at you.

1211
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Yeah, no I haven't, but I'm using that.

1212
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: I think you should. I think you should.

1213
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. The other thing about Sean is so he's now

1214
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 2: obviously like a huge advocate for criminal justice reform. It's

1215
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 2: kind of what he does and one of the things,

1216
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 2: the other thing he's said on this blog is that

1217
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 2: he has a firm belief that it should be five

1218
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: years and that's it. Nobody should be in prison for

1219
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: longer than five years.

1220
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting.

1221
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 2: It's going to do whatever it can do in that time,

1222
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: and the rest is just absolute garbage.

1223
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1224
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: I think that's a yeah, a really remarkable way of looking.

1225
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,479
Speaker 1: At that is that's a really interesting, interesting way.

1226
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 2: My ridiculous takeaway is, Yeah, the flip side of yours

1227
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: is like, welcome to David City for one thing, but

1228
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: for the other thing. You know, criming is not for everybody, no, no,

1229
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: and some of our criminals really get into it and

1230
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: it's like it becomes their special purpose. I think Sean

1231
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 2: like did a crime and he was like, all right,

1232
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 2: that was okay, but I didn't get any spark from it, like, yeah,

1233
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: it's not really me.

1234
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 1: He wasn't taking the boxes for him.

1235
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and you know, in a very gen x

1236
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: sort of way, he had to wear a lot of

1237
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: hats before he figured out what his thing is.

1238
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:40,919
Speaker 1: Ain't that the truth? Yep?

1239
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, bless him, God bless job, blessed, and God

1240
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: bless you rude dudes.

1241
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: Yes, thanks to the story, Dave. That is a good one.

1242
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: You're so welcome. That is what we have for today.

1243
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 2: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com,

1244
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: where we have you know, dancing gifts, dancing girls, merch,

1245
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: bad typography. You can also find us on Twitter and

1246
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 2: Instagram at at ridiculous Crime. You can send us an

1247
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 2: electronic mail at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. We

1248
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 2: probably won't read it. Or you can use the iHeart

1249
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: app and send us a thirty second audio message called

1250
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 2: a talkback. Go to the app, go to the episode.

1251
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 2: You'll see a little microphone. Hit that and you know,

1252
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,919
Speaker 2: talk for thirty seconds or more, but it'll only catch

1253
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 2: thirty seconds. That's all from here. Keep your feet on

1254
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 2: the ground, keep preaching for the stars. Ridiculous Crime is

1255
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 2: hosted by Zarren Burnett and Elizabeth Dutton and sometimes Dave Houston.

1256
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 2: It's produced and edited by the epithet list Dave Houston.

1257
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,160
Speaker 2: Research is by Marissa. Two sources confirm that this is

1258
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: a robbery. Brown and Andrea put all of your money

1259
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 2: into the footnotes song Sharpened Tear. The theme song is

1260
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: by Thomas KAPPAPLEI Lee and Travis five year Max Dott.

1261
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: Executive producers are Ben Beef It's What's for Dinner Bowlin

1262
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: and Noel Pork the other white Meat brown.

1263
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: Well, why say it one more time? Ludiquious Crime Ridiculous

1264
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from iHeartRadio.

1265
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,680
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1266
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:12,720
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