Speaker 1: Welcome back to the fire Drill. I will tell a
Speaker 1: funny story about my producer here at the end of this.
Speaker 1: But as far as UM are well, first of all,
Speaker 1: welcome back. Happy New Year? Did we do one already?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It might be Happy New Year again?
Speaker 1: And there's a Larry David bit about how I'm not
Speaker 1: supposed to say Happy New Year. But anyway, UM, Tournament
Speaker 1: of Champions. Allen was out there, so he had a
Speaker 1: lot of good stuff from the ground obviously. We talked
Speaker 1: about UH, John's Rom's comeback, UH and Collin's collapses and
Speaker 1: whether this is a thing you know he did it
Speaker 1: at the Hero, he did it here and UM, you
Speaker 1: know whether it gets into his head. Um. We talked
Speaker 1: about a press conference that Jay had. Allen was there
Speaker 1: with him for a little over an hour. UH, talked
Speaker 1: to Live as always, UM, talked about Allen's book, UH,
Speaker 1: and just was a really good conversation as always. Michael Bamberger,
Speaker 1: Alan Schipnik, and myself. UM, I do want to tell
Speaker 1: a quick story about my producer. Who's looking at me,
Speaker 1: Jake Huge Parker's fan. Right now, currently the Packers and
Speaker 1: the Lines are playing. Jake paused all like turned off
Speaker 1: his cell phone, paused the TV when we recorded, and
Speaker 1: was going to watch it as if it was live.
Speaker 1: And I forgot that, And at the end of the
Speaker 1: podcast told the score and and Jake just went hammerund
Speaker 1: me that I wish it was recorded, but I could
Speaker 1: not stop laughing. Jake, I'm so sorry. Let's get to
Speaker 1: our sponsors. Uh, part points, go make par great scoring,
Speaker 1: A great way to make scoring. I know it's hard
Speaker 1: to change the way you score golf, but this is
Speaker 1: a great way to do it. Go to part points
Speaker 1: downloaded on your phone, Go make par Uh and then
Speaker 1: Dormy Workshop Artisanal have to say it every week. Uh
Speaker 1: Uh club covers, Putter covers awesome supporters of us and
Speaker 1: uh A big fan of them. So without further ado,
Speaker 1: here's the three of us talking golf. That gott can't
Speaker 1: you j nothing? Well, what I'm thinking about? Can't get
Speaker 1: him that nothing? Think? Well, I'm thinking about I'm not
Speaker 1: so how much. You guys saw the turd of it today,
Speaker 1: but it was spectacular in its Uh. You know, you
Speaker 1: had called more acclif like he was gonna absolutely dominate
Speaker 1: and you led to death here in Paradise and John
Speaker 1: rom played absolutely beautiful round. Uh so what makes sports compelling?
Speaker 1: Like people were just we're just saying it was over
Speaker 1: after after three rounds, but ain't over till it's over.
Speaker 1: So what what did you guys make of the day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't watch a single shot, but mostly in protest
Speaker 1: because you know, this is not my kind of tournament.
Speaker 1: But um, I saw a lot of it on Twitter obviously, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know clips and stuff. I mean, Colin has now
Speaker 1: blown a five shot lead to the hero and a
Speaker 1: seven shot lead at the at the Tournament of Champions,
Speaker 1: and from the highlights I saw, it was like a
Speaker 1: full kind of melt down there, like chunk shots and
Speaker 1: making bogies on holes that are pretty easy. It's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's pretty wild. I mean, what a crazy sport. I
Speaker 1: mean he literally dominated for whatever, seventy sixty six holes
Speaker 1: sixties holes without and then just like imploded. I mean
Speaker 1: it's metaphysical, right, like you're you're playing that well, and
Speaker 1: uh you did look quite as comfortable there too, But
Speaker 1: again that's more about the emotional of the physical, and uh,
Speaker 1: it's what makes tournament golf such a great theater. Feel
Speaker 1: sorry for the guy at the human level, but man,
Speaker 1: it was. It was fascinating. What was the heat and
Speaker 1: humidity like out there? Because Colin Marcar was wearing those
Speaker 1: polyster shirts they usually know. I mean, he's so slender
Speaker 1: and fit, and he was perspiring like crazy, which you
Speaker 1: very seldom see in Hawaii. What was going on? It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been hot, you know. Wednesday and Thursday was kind
Speaker 1: of overcast and off and on truly, but the last
Speaker 1: three days have been scorcher was like I saw one
Speaker 1: the mometer here in Maui was ninety degrees, so that's unusual. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, And this is a very difficult golf course
Speaker 1: to walk. It's funny the guys in practice around the
Speaker 1: zip round of golf carts and they like it looks
Speaker 1: like the nowe five hundred out there. I mean, these
Speaker 1: dudes are racing for me to be to see that.
Speaker 1: They practice rounds of nineteen minutes and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's almost a disservice because they
Speaker 1: don't really you know, all the hanging out having the
Speaker 1: mindy ties whatever, and then you can get to Thursday,
Speaker 1: you have to walk the golf course. I feel like like,
Speaker 1: you know, that was maybe what happened to Mark how
Speaker 1: he's asked out there. So that's a good observation, Michael.
Speaker 1: It was hotter than usual, it was. It wasn't much breeze.
Speaker 1: They also made the golf course a lot trickier, bouncier,
Speaker 1: you know, I asked, I asked Ron afterwards. Its like,
Speaker 1: you know, last year you had Shuffler gets the number one,
Speaker 1: camp Smith to get the number one, Grey get number one,
Speaker 1: Like feel all left out, man, like hurt your pride?
Speaker 1: And he kind of puffed up and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm the best golf in the world.
Speaker 1: And you know, it was definitely a statement victory. So
Speaker 1: it's cool to see him do it. Well, I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'll tell me more of Ron, but just to go
Speaker 1: back to Colin here for a second. I mean what
Speaker 1: you just saut on fitness should be his stock in trade.
Speaker 1: I mean, just to look at this guy. He's he's young,
Speaker 1: he's slender, he's strong as an ox for his weight.
Speaker 1: You'd think he's going nine year holes with anybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you just get married, you know. So he maybe
Speaker 1: have done a little too much partying and honeymooning and
Speaker 1: other things, and he doesn't doesn't hasn't so as much
Speaker 1: time with the Jim or what ever. But yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's funny because you know, wrong is he's got like
Speaker 1: like because he's obviously the way his body moves, he's
Speaker 1: an athlete. It doesn't look like an athlete, right. I
Speaker 1: was old, Chunky's thick and uh, but he looked fresh man.
Speaker 1: He looked like he could play another eighteen goal. So
Speaker 1: it's amazing what adrenaline will do an emotion because his
Speaker 1: rom was like in that that chasing boy had that
Speaker 1: he had the scent and there was so much pep
Speaker 1: in his step and Mark Cow's hang dog and shoulder
Speaker 1: slums and muttering to himself and then you're playing like that,
Speaker 1: it's like all the life force drains out of it.
Speaker 1: Was it was really interesting to see. It's interesting to
Speaker 1: hear you said that about Ram because he's a big,
Speaker 1: big boy in every way. But you know, when he
Speaker 1: threw one of these fist pumps from making a put,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, late on Sunday, he really looked like
Speaker 1: some of these great boxers in there a lot of years,
Speaker 1: even like Ali. You know, Ali was was not slender
Speaker 1: at the end when he was still good. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: not the best example performing and and and various others.
Speaker 1: He looks strong as an I mean, he looked like
Speaker 1: he could go with anybody in any sport. He just
Speaker 1: looked big, strong, mean, tough, the whole athletic package. So
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, if you just saw him being, know,
Speaker 1: sitting in asana, you'd say this guy's lead athlete. But
Speaker 1: then if you see him in action, and then the
Speaker 1: swinging speaks for itself, and you can't swing that fast
Speaker 1: back in down without being absolutely superb athlete. Look, you
Speaker 1: were seen in the soccer ball. He's he could. He's
Speaker 1: got great feet. It's kind of like you know, Chimolajua
Speaker 1: on the Basketball player group played playing soccer and that's
Speaker 1: why he was so good. In the post, he was
Speaker 1: like he was dancing in there, and I think there's
Speaker 1: something to do that with wrong. He's just he's just
Speaker 1: he's got incredible motor patterns and uh, you know he's
Speaker 1: he's what you do with your hands and the golf
Speaker 1: swing is very different what you do with the soccer
Speaker 1: ball your feet, you could do both, So uh, don't
Speaker 1: be fooled by the package. It's like Carl Peterson He's
Speaker 1: like one of my all time favorite pet golfers because
Speaker 1: he looked absolutely dumpy and anyone like five times and
Speaker 1: just you know, obviously the wall or is to go
Speaker 1: down the list. Bob Bob Murphy was like that in
Speaker 1: the seventies. Yeah, big Big, the young Big Jack. I mean,
Speaker 1: these guys don't look like quote unquote athletes with their
Speaker 1: hand eye coordination, their explosiveness, that's the ability to you know,
Speaker 1: swing a club a onter two miles an hour and
Speaker 1: hit a little dime size spot over and over. Incredible,
Speaker 1: they can do it. Uh, And let us not forget
Speaker 1: to make our obligatory but totally authentic nod to John
Speaker 1: Rom's spic tacul or use of the English language. I mean,
Speaker 1: he just expresses himself so well in good times and bad.
Speaker 1: He expresses himself with his face and he's got a
Speaker 1: great emotional face, but the actual words that come out
Speaker 1: of his mouth always blows me away how well spoken
Speaker 1: this guy is. And Sergio was the name, and a
Speaker 1: off the ball was the same, but he especially, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, there's like this old world like courtliness. It's
Speaker 1: almost a little formal his language, and I love it,
Speaker 1: and so I just as is my wan. I just
Speaker 1: sneaked into this thing upstairs at the capital of the clubhouse.
Speaker 1: It's a centuries the the tournament sponsor, and so traditionally
Speaker 1: Jamnahan always as a Q and A with the champion,
Speaker 1: and it's just for the century of V I P. S.
Speaker 1: But I went to the back door and they have
Speaker 1: this incredible spread of sushi. So I got this huge
Speaker 1: plate and I stur on the balcony, facing away from
Speaker 1: the stage and the crowd and just stuffed my face
Speaker 1: and no one to recognize me. And then as soon
Speaker 1: as I started talking, I turned around and started paying attention.
Speaker 1: And but you know in that that's a little more
Speaker 1: informal setting. The mark Rolfing is, you know, the patriarch.
Speaker 1: He saw me, He texts me, please don't quote this.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get in trouble whatever thing. But
Speaker 1: do you think you're sneaking around days? You're gonna be
Speaker 1: harder now post the phil Exclamation working book. Uh, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, you got you gotta blend in.
Speaker 1: So if I'm standing there taking notes, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I take my credential off and you get that, you
Speaker 1: get you know, two pounds worth of good nagiri and
Speaker 1: they're stoked. No one's no one really. I wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: ask what's what's the best place you've snuck into as
Speaker 1: a but we all know how that ended. Yeah, public
Speaker 1: having but anyway to go back to my rom and
Speaker 1: that atmosphere, were still relaxed. He's drinking in Tina Colada
Speaker 1: and um Monahan's not a great interviewer. Every sentence begin
Speaker 1: to talk about, talk about, talk about you know, it's
Speaker 1: like just ask a question, Jay, not to make a statement.
Speaker 1: This is like interviewing one on one. But anyway, and Jay,
Speaker 1: we don't use the command form at the elite levels
Speaker 1: of the game. They're human beings, they're not robots. Anyway,
Speaker 1: in that setting, ram will still relaxed. And yeah, he
Speaker 1: spoke so beautifully about the feeling he has here in
Speaker 1: the Islands, and him and his wife and the two sons.
Speaker 1: They come over on December twenty seven and they put
Speaker 1: the phone in the drawers, he said, and they just
Speaker 1: relaxed and they just live like uh, like true vacationers
Speaker 1: and it kind of eases them into the week. And
Speaker 1: then last year it whatever did win because camp it
Speaker 1: was absolutely nuts but um, you know, it's obviously found
Speaker 1: the right formula. But it was just it was sweet
Speaker 1: to hear he was. He was so eloquent and at
Speaker 1: some point, you know, he stopped speaking in Monahan was
Speaker 1: just he just said, how good is that to the crowd,
Speaker 1: like there's nothing to say. It was just so it
Speaker 1: was like speaking the whole lovely paragraphs. So yeah, and
Speaker 1: I was like, he didn't win by he didn't win
Speaker 1: by one. He went by two, and he was he
Speaker 1: made a bogey on one and he was nine shots
Speaker 1: back on the second hole. As much as we want
Speaker 1: to talk about John Raum and obviously a great round,
Speaker 1: but I mean a couple more like one more big
Speaker 1: lead lost by Colin. I mean, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a five shot lead and a seven shot lead is
Speaker 1: pretty tough to like that. That's tough to swallow. It's
Speaker 1: gotta be in your head a little bit. The next
Speaker 1: time he gets way ahead. Oh no, he's in the
Speaker 1: danger zone for sure. And and don't forget he's at
Speaker 1: the Tournament of Champions and he's not even a champion.
Speaker 1: He hasn't one since two thousand twenty one. He got
Speaker 1: in with this new criteria Trophy, the new criteria of
Speaker 1: let's pay our best players. Everybody's invited. Everybody, Yeah, every
Speaker 1: every elite informally elite golfer is still in the league
Speaker 1: golfer on the PGA Tour. So true. I related. I related.
Speaker 1: I saw on Twitter, uh Collins j J. Collins Caddy
Speaker 1: j J. There was a clip of him like putting
Speaker 1: his arm around Colin and like trying to pump him up,
Speaker 1: and it took me back. Obviously not comparison, but Uh,
Speaker 1: I was kidding for Mark Baldwin in a corn ferry
Speaker 1: event in Chicago and we were like four off the
Speaker 1: cut line, not even dreaming about the cut because like
Speaker 1: a couple more birdies were in contention, and uh it was.
Speaker 1: It was Friday and Mark starts made one bogey and
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, it's fine, man, no problem, more good,
Speaker 1: and then it makes another bogey and then you're like
Speaker 1: you you can say something like all right, dude, let's
Speaker 1: you know, start fresh here, and then you make another bogie.
Speaker 1: There's nothing really to say, you know anymore. You're just
Speaker 1: like putting your arm around him and you're like okay,
Speaker 1: And then the fourth bogie when you missed the cut
Speaker 1: and you're like there's nothing to say. You're just like
Speaker 1: out of luck, you know, and JJ did all of those.
Speaker 1: I saw a couple of clips, you like try to
Speaker 1: encourage him and then try to give him the old
Speaker 1: hand pat and then there's just sometimes that there's nothing
Speaker 1: to just say. You just sit there and watch your
Speaker 1: player blow it. Yeah, how agonizing is that? Ryan? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's It's the most helpless feeling I've had in golf.
Speaker 1: Is like, uh, you know, I mean you're watching a
Speaker 1: guy just like Mark. It was in a different circumstance,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter. It's the same feeling. I would assume, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Mark needed to make cuts to move up
Speaker 1: the money list, and it's like just helpless. You're watching
Speaker 1: the guy make bogey after boge and you're just like
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can do. You can only there's only
Speaker 1: so many pep talks you can make, and before the
Speaker 1: guys like get out of my face, you know, and
Speaker 1: just like you gotta leave him alone at some point. Well, right,
Speaker 1: that's that's golf. Golf, you know, like college basketball and
Speaker 1: a lot of other sports, it is really really really
Speaker 1: hard to change momentum and golf um and of course
Speaker 1: it goes to John Rom too, though. You know, bogie
Speaker 1: on one when you're look like you're helplessly out of
Speaker 1: it and then turn around, that's hard. Although we've talked
Speaker 1: about bogies on one before sometimes or Jeff Ogilvie has
Speaker 1: sold us Alan about bogie on one how that can
Speaker 1: sort of turning around sometimes, but not in this setting. Uh,
Speaker 1: bogion one is a total I give him credit, Michael
Speaker 1: at Cappela when he's already you know, money is obviously
Speaker 1: not a thing like you can easily you make a
Speaker 1: bogie on one and you can easily pack it in.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a it's a no cut event. Everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna get rich no matter where are you finished, So
Speaker 1: you're kind of like to dig down and actually go
Speaker 1: after in an event, like in any event, obviously, but
Speaker 1: like even an event like this, which is that has
Speaker 1: a tone of hit and giggle for sure, maybe not
Speaker 1: as the lead on Sunday, but it's not like a
Speaker 1: huge grind fest out there. Rom's a little different man.
Speaker 1: He runs so hot. I was talking to his wife
Speaker 1: afterwards and I said, you know, was he grumpy last year?
Speaker 1: That guy saw thirty three under work can you do?
Speaker 1: And she's like, he was extremely grumpy. Anytime he doesn't win,
Speaker 1: he's grumpy. It's like even when he wins, he sometimes
Speaker 1: grump because he thinks they could done something better. Like he's, um,
Speaker 1: he wants it. You know, It's one thing I like
Speaker 1: about it's palpable that desire you look at. You know,
Speaker 1: Cam Smith, You're not sure how deep the ambition runs,
Speaker 1: you know, but like wrong man, he's he's hungry and
Speaker 1: he's not one three of his last four starts worldwide,
Speaker 1: and he's very prideful. He's told me he wants to
Speaker 1: get back to number one. He wants to win more majors,
Speaker 1: like he's he's a guy who thinks about his legacy
Speaker 1: in the game. And I love that because he's obviously
Speaker 1: it's attactive talent and he's chasing it hard. And that's
Speaker 1: that's all you can want from a great player, you know,
Speaker 1: Like they don't always anything or see But it's frustrating
Speaker 1: when you see a talent and they're they're not really
Speaker 1: that into it and they have an okay career, but
Speaker 1: they're never what you think. I don't know, NA mean
Speaker 1: name is Fred Couples, but it's like it's it's more
Speaker 1: satisfying when guys go after that. And now to to
Speaker 1: your point, you know, when we hear John Rum talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, the world ranking points said it's a joke
Speaker 1: that lives on getting world ranking points, you know, which
Speaker 1: is basically what he has said. It's got to be
Speaker 1: rooted in the fact that he wants to beat the
Speaker 1: best in the world, no matter where they're playing. Uh So,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're going to give him, you know,
Speaker 1: but not a hundred percent of the world's best players
Speaker 1: at Major's and the Players Championship especially, um, it means
Speaker 1: him actually, uh he came to United States to take
Speaker 1: on the world. He plays in Europe to take on
Speaker 1: the world. And uh, uh so I think what you
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of truth. There is a
Speaker 1: lot of truth to what to what you just said.
Speaker 1: And and uh and and Rum has put his his
Speaker 1: words in for for what he believes. Hey, I don't
Speaker 1: this this has nothing to do with Colin or but
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to do with the century in the
Speaker 1: PGA tour. No one has said it. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's even legitimate. But Xander withdrew because of a
Speaker 1: bad bag. Is there any rumblings Allen that you're hearing
Speaker 1: on the ground of Like would he have played normally,
Speaker 1: he probably would have just taken the week off, right,
Speaker 1: but like he didn't want it to He didn't want
Speaker 1: to burn his one out of these elevated events. And
Speaker 1: then he comes here and he gets hurt worse or
Speaker 1: maybe not worse, but he just like aggravates his injury
Speaker 1: right Like I would guess if this was a normal
Speaker 1: century Tournament of Champions, he would have just not played.
Speaker 1: So this is interesting. Um. Every every year Monaghan Jamonahan,
Speaker 1: the commission with PGA Tour has had a little informal
Speaker 1: Q and A with reporters here. There's usually very few
Speaker 1: of them. Last year because of Covid was only Doug Fergus.
Speaker 1: He's literally the only guy, um. But it's a nice
Speaker 1: turnout this year because it's a start's whole new europe
Speaker 1: On tour. They'll BEGA events and everything else. And so
Speaker 1: uh I was one of about a dozen guys went
Speaker 1: to this little windowless conference room this morning right after
Speaker 1: Markow it teed off and j J took questions for
Speaker 1: about an hour and it was big for me because
Speaker 1: I've been trying to get audience with him all of
Speaker 1: last year, and he was ducking me, and his colms
Speaker 1: people were ducking me, and they were run interferes. I
Speaker 1: was texted j he wasn't answering, And I finally got
Speaker 1: him at cornered him at the Door Championship and looked
Speaker 1: me in the eyes and said, okay, I'll talk to you.
Speaker 1: And and he's still duck in me. And so I
Speaker 1: finally I finally got him, even though I hate to
Speaker 1: have to share with everybody else, but I like this
Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm gonna keep bird dogging him, but uh,
Speaker 1: and so it was. It was a very productive session.
Speaker 1: I got to ask some super granular questions that no
Speaker 1: one else in the world will care about, but are
Speaker 1: very important to me as I've written this book about
Speaker 1: the future, let just live and all that stuff. But
Speaker 1: one thing that came out of this conversation is that
Speaker 1: um Monahan admitted that he has the ultimate discretion on
Speaker 1: the pit. And then even if you don't, if you
Speaker 1: don't play twelve out of thirteen events, you can still
Speaker 1: dole out what you would have gone. But you could
Speaker 1: call the tiger rule. This tiger is only gonna play
Speaker 1: two out of thirt you know or whatever, like this
Speaker 1: is bad news for the Travelers. This is very bad,
Speaker 1: he said, situational. I'll have to weigh the situation. But
Speaker 1: you know, so uh yeah, if guys just want to
Speaker 1: go on a vacation, but yeah, you may there may
Speaker 1: be some quote unquote stiff backs during some of these
Speaker 1: lesser elevated events. And Monahan is gonna what's he gonna do?
Speaker 1: Not give Rory his fifteen million dollars of Roy skips
Speaker 1: a couple more like, you know, Royce saved the tour, Like,
Speaker 1: let's wahn do He's not going to give tigers and
Speaker 1: money Tigers the de facto commissioners so and and Mike
Speaker 1: and Michael brought this up last week. Is like Rory
Speaker 1: plays all over the world, so it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy doesn't want to play the Travelers.
Speaker 1: He wants to take the week off. Frory and Rom
Speaker 1: and a few other guys. They also have to play
Speaker 1: turn into the European Tour to keep their membership there,
Speaker 1: and so that goes into this whole scheduling matrix. That's
Speaker 1: why Roy did not come to this event that he's
Speaker 1: been trying to pick off European Tour start, you know,
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks, and it was just too much
Speaker 1: to make it all fit. But yeah, so not to me,
Speaker 1: was it was an interesting revelation. I mean, I've been
Speaker 1: calling the pit money a slush fund since the beginning,
Speaker 1: but here's the ultimate example. You know, first you gotta play,
Speaker 1: you gotta play all thirteen events, you don't get any money,
Speaker 1: and then okay, sorry we jumped the gun. We'll say
Speaker 1: you gotta play toll out of thirteen. Okay, fine, just
Speaker 1: try your best boys and then we'll see how it
Speaker 1: takes out at the end. Like so that that was
Speaker 1: that was That was a little nugget that came from
Speaker 1: this Q. And was that the session where because I
Speaker 1: read Doug story where there was a quote that said
Speaker 1: it's product versus product, now live versus p Was that
Speaker 1: your session that you were in? That was it? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I thought that was a good quote. I mean, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: there weren't any big revelations to come out of this conversation.
Speaker 1: It's really Monahan's first time meeting the Press Tour Championships.
Speaker 1: That's a long time and the way things are moving quickly, Uh,
Speaker 1: in the geopolitics and professional golf. So um. You know,
Speaker 1: we did confirm that tour members who ask for releases
Speaker 1: to play the Saudi or National are gonna be granted
Speaker 1: those releases. It's not a live event, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a co sanctioned by the Asian Tour. There's a precedent
Speaker 1: for letting guys go over there and play. It's still
Speaker 1: a bad look to the tour because they're all gonna
Speaker 1: be in England with you know, golf. Saudi basically funds
Speaker 1: Live and they also fund this tournament. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: all this cross pall nations with the live guys, leadership
Speaker 1: and tour players, and it's gonna be some troubling optics
Speaker 1: and will surely, you know, set off a whole round
Speaker 1: of rumors that that's what doesn't want to deal with.
Speaker 1: But uh, they're not in a position right now addicting anything.
Speaker 1: And as they face this antitrust lawsuit from Live, the
Speaker 1: last thing they're gona do is prevent their independent contractors
Speaker 1: from going and all this money. So um that that
Speaker 1: was a little nugget that came out of it. You
Speaker 1: still haven't decided on field size for the future elevated events,
Speaker 1: so they're going to be cuts. And I was kind
Speaker 1: of pressed them on that point, like, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: the biggest thing the tour has different to differentiate itself
Speaker 1: from live. There's a competitive aspect. Semi two holes we've cut.
Speaker 1: And I said, look, you go for the Tour Championship
Speaker 1: to the Hero to Maui. Tiny fields, no cut, big money,
Speaker 1: World ranking points. I was like, this is kind of
Speaker 1: fishy man like He's like, yeah, we're gonna look at
Speaker 1: everything going forward and there may be some structural changes
Speaker 1: to every event on our schedule. So um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: product product against product is definitely because the mantra of
Speaker 1: the tour and I talked to a lot of guys
Speaker 1: this we've got a lot of different things related to
Speaker 1: this whole you know, uh battle between warring tribes, and um,
Speaker 1: I sensed that the tour guys are settled in their
Speaker 1: position now, like we've done the best we can do.
Speaker 1: We've made this as attractive as we can. We've got
Speaker 1: the guys who want to be here totally bought in
Speaker 1: and now we're just gonna go play golf and not
Speaker 1: worry about it. So it was interesting. There's a peacefulness
Speaker 1: around the PGA tour that hadn't existed I think previously.
Speaker 1: Did did he go down that Norman must go road that,
Speaker 1: which I think is nutty at all. I asked him,
Speaker 1: I said, hey, big Norman called you tomorrow. Would you
Speaker 1: take the call? And it's like, do you have a
Speaker 1: fiduciary duty to answer the phone? And he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: he didn't be like I gotta like to play hypothetical.
Speaker 1: It was like, literally just said five minutes ago that
Speaker 1: your whole job is looking into the future and game
Speaker 1: planning for future threats and predicting the future and all
Speaker 1: these different models. It's like you live in the world
Speaker 1: of hypotheticals. But when reporters presentive, he doesn't want to
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to answer. Alan, you didn't answer that.
Speaker 1: You didn't ask the question right away. You should have
Speaker 1: had the palling talk about what you would do when
Speaker 1: Norman my bad, Yeah, he didn't. He didn't want to
Speaker 1: touch anything happened to do. And that was that question
Speaker 1: I think touched off atill. So will it be about
Speaker 1: product against product? And we just like we are who
Speaker 1: we are, this is the best product we can present.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have all these players coming together. Uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's you know. Wheels out tourists earlier said hey, man,
Speaker 1: if you don't like what we're offering, then watch something else,
Speaker 1: Like this is the best we can do. To be fair,
Speaker 1: a lot of less people watched the product, and this
Speaker 1: will bring up a bigger discussion. I think Ryan Blanche
Speaker 1: like tweeted out that a lot of less people have
Speaker 1: watched every day the thing. Then last year supposedly a
Speaker 1: better field. I mean it is a better field than
Speaker 1: last year. I think it brings up like people are
Speaker 1: sick of pro golf. I mean, I think they're they're
Speaker 1: like tired of all the politics. I hope, for everybody's
Speaker 1: sake that all of this crap just calms down. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's possible, but I think people are just
Speaker 1: growing tired of the constant. And it's like the article
Speaker 1: I sent you guys about cart and I r L
Speaker 1: is like people just got tired of listening to the
Speaker 1: battle and eventually they got turned off of everyone live
Speaker 1: the PGA tour. They just got hired of you know,
Speaker 1: rich in their eyes, rich babies winding about more money.
Speaker 1: It's a great point. Uh, that is a real that
Speaker 1: is a real danger for professional golf everywhere. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we had John rom versus Colin Morikawa, everybody,
Speaker 1: every name brand, Like I think Brendan Prath tweeted at
Speaker 1: one time there was a screenshot of the of the
Speaker 1: um the leaderboard and every player in the top ten
Speaker 1: was a writer cover And I mean we had that.
Speaker 1: It was a dream leaderboard and people weren't watching. Now
Speaker 1: again where we like, was there more shutdowns last year
Speaker 1: so more people were in their house and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of factors. I'm not saying that's the
Speaker 1: only factor, but I just think less people watching a
Speaker 1: better field tournament with more money might not be the
Speaker 1: might not be the way forward. You know. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: just one off, no problem, over and over and over again.
Speaker 1: It's concerning that people are just tired of golf. That's
Speaker 1: a good point. It's such a pleasing telecast with all
Speaker 1: the scenery and all the crazy shots, Like, we're not
Speaker 1: enjoying this telecast that I don't know if to tell you.
Speaker 1: But just to Ryan's point about people being turned off
Speaker 1: by this whole by the rhetoric, uh, and and the bitchiness.
Speaker 1: I was talking to some live folks last week because
Speaker 1: I'm still trying to get another audience from Greg Norman's,
Speaker 1: and they said, well, we're kind of shutting Norman down
Speaker 1: because he always takes the bait. You know, he just
Speaker 1: can't help himself. But every interview tries to wind him
Speaker 1: up and then he says something inflammatory and then it
Speaker 1: just goes around the world and then there's live executives
Speaker 1: that it doesn't it doesn't serve us. Well, like we're
Speaker 1: afraid of turning off fans, we're afraid of overshadowing that
Speaker 1: we're trying to do here, and so there is so
Speaker 1: it's your there is some awareness amongst the stakeholders that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was fun and juicy for a long time,
Speaker 1: and of course we talked about it, wrote about and
Speaker 1: it gave us. As I've said before, it was a
Speaker 1: gift from the content gods. But I think, yeah, there
Speaker 1: may be a weariness they're saying Ryan and I had
Speaker 1: to gooth sides of the wise to be aware of that,
Speaker 1: you know, when Ryan tweeted, When Ryan tweeted that about
Speaker 1: the viewership being down, you know, I think the rhetoric
Speaker 1: on on Twitter has cooled. Alan I don't know if
Speaker 1: you feel that, but like I used to tweet like
Speaker 1: camp Smith was the better, you know, the best player
Speaker 1: in the world, and he'd be like, oh, you just
Speaker 1: love Live, right, and like he'd you know, screw him,
Speaker 1: he left or whatever. And there's just not that much
Speaker 1: of that anymore. And and I and I don't take
Speaker 1: it as people like or dislike Live any less. It's
Speaker 1: they're worn out. They're like worn out of all of it.
Speaker 1: They're tired. I mean, we were all tired of it
Speaker 1: on Twitter, right, like again, uh when I said it
Speaker 1: on the podcast Lesson and then I went and read
Speaker 1: that article that I sent you guys. I mean, people
Speaker 1: just get tired of it. A bunch of millionaires and
Speaker 1: billionaires fighting over more millions and more billions gets exhausting
Speaker 1: after a while, and one wants to watch it. And
Speaker 1: IndyCar never recovered, and I'm concerned that's where golf is
Speaker 1: headed and then implied and everything you're saying, Ryan, I think,
Speaker 1: is this fundamental fact that Live will never fix. No
Speaker 1: one will ever fix it. It's just the nature of golf, slow,
Speaker 1: contemplative game. So you gotta you know, you have a
Speaker 1: young audience that can watch college basketball or the NFL
Speaker 1: or golf. You had to say with this broadcast for
Speaker 1: three plus hours to get to anything remotely resembling adanument.
Speaker 1: Basketball and football are total NonStop fix. I know in
Speaker 1: college football or the NFL, they're not using whatever you've
Speaker 1: done them, won't it's a little friends for you, Ryan, Okay, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's um. I know the downside to Tiger Woods
Speaker 1: arrival and to talk about we're gonna open a golf
Speaker 1: course a day and golf can become the part of
Speaker 1: the Big Four. Like golf has always been a boutique sport.
Speaker 1: It's always going to be, and I think the game
Speaker 1: runs into problems when it tries to do something that
Speaker 1: it's not. And it's you just have to you have
Speaker 1: to keep the hardcore fans happy that the casual fans
Speaker 1: will tune in for the Masters in the US Open Tiger.
Speaker 1: But you know the real question for when you look
Speaker 1: at the ratings is it's not why community, why can
Speaker 1: golf not compete with football? It's why why I have
Speaker 1: some of the hardcore fans turned away from the town
Speaker 1: like cats, Like that's where the soul SURGECT should be
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a small number, it's a small tribe,
Speaker 1: but it is important. Um. You know again, there was
Speaker 1: like with this tournament started on on on Thursday. It
Speaker 1: wasn't on TV. You know, you had traditional TV. You
Speaker 1: had to you had to go to ESPN Plus for
Speaker 1: the streaming and even then they only had um future
Speaker 1: groups in certain holes. It's like all this anticipation, it's
Speaker 1: opening day and it was like you had a lot
Speaker 1: of people had to have the app to have to
Speaker 1: sign up for the street trial, had to like he
Speaker 1: was like, you know, if you're a bar, they're never
Speaker 1: gonna be able to turn it on for you. It's
Speaker 1: just like, oh, man, like why does golf always do
Speaker 1: this to itself? It's just be especially somewhere beautiful like this,
Speaker 1: but it looks great on TV and you might might
Speaker 1: snag some casual fans, like in prime time, in prime
Speaker 1: prime time. What was it what was like to be
Speaker 1: for you to be back in the saddle. It's been
Speaker 1: a while since you've been to a PGA Tour event.
Speaker 1: I don't know when when. The last one would have
Speaker 1: been maybe at the British Open, which is not even
Speaker 1: ordinary PG Tour event by any means, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a tour championship. And but even that one,
Speaker 1: I was, I was, I was there. I didn't stayed
Speaker 1: for the finish. I was ere a kount for the
Speaker 1: early week announcements and and did interviews and the features,
Speaker 1: and um, so I haven't, I haven't, I haven't. This
Speaker 1: is the hardest I've grounded out in a tournament a
Speaker 1: long time. It's been fun, you know. I did a
Speaker 1: big piece on Thursday kind of what it all means,
Speaker 1: big picture for the parting like the dot com uh.
Speaker 1: And then on Friday wrote about George Speth and Tom
Speaker 1: Kim this budding friendship and mentorship, which that was really
Speaker 1: keypes to. I really enjoyed that one. I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: a big Amonahan thing that will drop here in an
Speaker 1: hour two and then I'll write, am My, some really
Speaker 1: fun reporting from my markcow at rom Peace and you know,
Speaker 1: probably right now and playing right home tonight and you know,
Speaker 1: done some videos now we're doing we're doing this this podcast.
Speaker 1: So I enjoyed it. I mean, it's a great week
Speaker 1: for the reporters. The average fans aren't always tuned into
Speaker 1: like if you go to if you go to lambeau
Speaker 1: Field like that, it's very defined where you do interviews,
Speaker 1: where it's it's immutable. Nothing ever changed for Cheesu season,
Speaker 1: but every week, every different venue, where the locker room is,
Speaker 1: the practice facilities, how the players moved from point at
Speaker 1: a point B. Some weeks it's really easy to get guys,
Speaker 1: and some weeks it's really difficult. But this is this
Speaker 1: is a great week because it's intimate, there's very few fans.
Speaker 1: The way everything's configured, there's always little spaces where you
Speaker 1: can guys aside and get them one on one. And
Speaker 1: so I had an ex greamely productive week, not just
Speaker 1: in what the content I'm pumping out already, but banking
Speaker 1: for fature stories and for this book. So it was
Speaker 1: it was great fun. I had had a fun week,
Speaker 1: and there was a media party on Friday night. You
Speaker 1: can eat and drink and you should skip those kind
Speaker 1: of things. But here is I don't know. I was
Speaker 1: in spirit, so a little smoothing and see people in
Speaker 1: the pool the elevator. Did you hear anybody mentioned the
Speaker 1: name Bryson deshambo Um? No it you know, Actually I
Speaker 1: was I was talking to Mark Rowl thinking, of course
Speaker 1: is the patriarch of Capalua, and he had a whole
Speaker 1: riff about all the guys he he misses because he
Speaker 1: really afforded personal relationship with them, like he loved Dustin.
Speaker 1: He told me something really funny Dustin partying in New
Speaker 1: Year's um tales, including the time that Dustin borrowed Mark
Speaker 1: Ralfin's pickup truck and abound up abandoning it at the
Speaker 1: wrong hotel. They couldn't find it for days, like classic
Speaker 1: dust and uh. And he had a he had a
Speaker 1: picture he called up in his phone. He was talking
Speaker 1: to Phil Nicholson right by the eight team green because
Speaker 1: you know Phil, last year came he'd wanted his a
Speaker 1: PG championship unexpectedly right at h fifty one. I felt
Speaker 1: like your respect of all the live stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: who knows. I felt like he brought like twenty people.
Speaker 1: It was like everybody'd ever met in his life. It
Speaker 1: was just they blew it out and so no Phil,
Speaker 1: you know cam Smith locker. It was interesting that he
Speaker 1: had a nameplate and an empty locker. I don't know
Speaker 1: why they did that. Um and it was kind of poignant,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like just crammed in with all
Speaker 1: the other guys, and there's Cam's empty empty locker, you know,
Speaker 1: defending Champs um So. And you know, Rali said, Man,
Speaker 1: I'm sad because I I think I think Cam Smith
Speaker 1: could be the next Tom Watson, and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: we'll ever find out how good he could really be
Speaker 1: played on with. And so he was like, he's the
Speaker 1: guy who could have come back from the year after year.
Speaker 1: He could have made his mark on this tournament, on
Speaker 1: this golf course and proof we're all gone. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: Ralfie more than anybody know. He's kind of the heart
Speaker 1: people this whole place. So uh he he misses the players.
Speaker 1: Everyone else, you know, we've moved on, screw those guys,
Speaker 1: but he was a little more honest about it. It
Speaker 1: is wild too, And I know we've brought this up
Speaker 1: probably everyone, but it is wild. Like Brason de Shamba
Speaker 1: was the best player in the world not very long ago,
Speaker 1: and he is just like Brooks too. And you know,
Speaker 1: Dustin to some extent, maybe Dustin is a little more
Speaker 1: prominent in all of our thought process, but man, it's wild.
Speaker 1: It is wild. And those guys, as we talked about
Speaker 1: last week, desperately needed good finish at some of these
Speaker 1: majors this year to just be relevant. Yeah, I mean none.
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us were playing. We're paying
Speaker 1: close attention to the day and day stuff on on
Speaker 1: the Live Tour, but Dustin was playing at the entire level.
Speaker 1: He's contending week after week. He won. He was a
Speaker 1: season long champion and his team was won the championship. Like,
Speaker 1: if you play well enough there, you will be in
Speaker 1: some headlines and you will get some coverage. So Dustin
Speaker 1: helped make himself relevant. He contended to British Open and
Speaker 1: this and that. So, um, I mean, you're right, it's
Speaker 1: a guy like like Bryce and he struggled all year
Speaker 1: on Live like he's just he doesn't existing. It's wild. Um,
Speaker 1: what was Mark like? And to defeat very classy, signed
Speaker 1: every autograph, was super gracious, every volunteer, you know, yeah
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, at one point uh yeah, two point seven
Speaker 1: of the winner. But it was but you know how,
Speaker 1: you know how we do it, Michael, like you and
Speaker 1: I with the observational reporting. It's like at the end
Speaker 1: of it, I kind of waited for Colin to come
Speaker 1: out of the locker room and the facade had kind
Speaker 1: of melted away. Shoot was untouched. He's wearing flip flaws.
Speaker 1: They had given him a leg to where coming off
Speaker 1: the eighteenth creed long gone discarded, and he looked pretty beaten,
Speaker 1: like he's definitely in the danger zone. I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: flying start to his career, two major championship. He's still
Speaker 1: only twenty five. I mean, he's got all the time
Speaker 1: in the world to get back to where he was,
Speaker 1: but struggling with his swing a little bit. Um didn't
Speaker 1: hasn't one in a year and a half, had a
Speaker 1: two way misgoing for part to last year, which no
Speaker 1: pro really wants to have, and now in the last
Speaker 1: month he's got his teeth kicked in twice on Sunday. Um,
Speaker 1: there's some scar tissue there. And you know when guys
Speaker 1: are candid, like you know, uh, you know, and Phil
Speaker 1: is really candida about what Wingfut did to him. You know,
Speaker 1: he said two years to recover from that. This is
Speaker 1: in the US Open. Colin does not have the annual
Speaker 1: psychodrama like philmed but nevertheless, like he's these things leave
Speaker 1: scar tissue, and uh, to do it twice and back
Speaker 1: to back in such proximity, it's uh, it's it's tough man.
Speaker 1: He's gonna have to rebuild himself. When he laid the
Speaker 1: side over on fourteen fifteen whatever, that one was like,
Speaker 1: well that was that was like, I mean, you can
Speaker 1: make bogis as a pro. And I think all of us,
Speaker 1: Johnny Miller obviously overuse the word like you know, nerves
Speaker 1: and pressure and all that kind of stuff, like sometimes
Speaker 1: you just don't play great golf. But there was like
Speaker 1: the few highlights I saw on Twitter, We're like, whoa
Speaker 1: this guy that looked like the pressure got to him
Speaker 1: or he just didn't trust his swinging off or whatever
Speaker 1: not the pressure got to him. But like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're holding on pros, no, like you're holding out of
Speaker 1: these swing changes. I think I read it like Peter
Speaker 1: Costas said, like a real test of whether a swing
Speaker 1: change is working is when it's under pressure and rom
Speaker 1: got close and the swing change didn't work. You know,
Speaker 1: not that it's not gonna work long term, just in
Speaker 1: this instant it's not gonna well. In which was a
Speaker 1: very easily drive ablepar four, you know more account missed
Speaker 1: in the bunker, which with the pin was as a
Speaker 1: tough bunker shot, but then brained it over the green
Speaker 1: like everyone was making out worst of three there and
Speaker 1: he made a five like that was brutal. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: they left that ship and just it was And then
Speaker 1: of course you think about what happened to Hero that
Speaker 1: that snipe into the into the bushes that really cost
Speaker 1: of and he also chunk to chip there, like it
Speaker 1: wasn't just it wasn't just one thing to heard him like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just had a bad day with the driver, and
Speaker 1: I could the tight course, I couldn't get around, like
Speaker 1: this is super wide golf course, like it's very playable,
Speaker 1: and but all parts of his game were leaky, you know.
Speaker 1: It was there's a lot of mistakes, well swings. It
Speaker 1: was short game and he's missing five, six, eight flours.
Speaker 1: He had to make like a total breakdown. So if
Speaker 1: it was just one swing the motor pattern here, like okay,
Speaker 1: I just need more reps, but it we went deeper
Speaker 1: than that. So that's that's the troublesome thing. Like he's
Speaker 1: got a few he's got to tighten up a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff. Orkay, can I ask you guys a question
Speaker 1: on a on a semi related sevenect Gordon's sergeant a
Speaker 1: year old. I think sophomore at Vanderbilt got an invitation
Speaker 1: to the Masters. Um. It's not something that happens every day.
Speaker 1: It's totally actually out of the ordinary for the for
Speaker 1: the for the modern Masters. Back in the day, it
Speaker 1: would not have been maybe s ordinary when they were
Speaker 1: giving out more invitations to more aminent golfers. But how
Speaker 1: do you guys read that that invitation? What do you
Speaker 1: think is actually going on there? The PGA Tour called
Speaker 1: and said, hey, can you get this guy one? And
Speaker 1: we'd like to keep our young players please, and we'd
Speaker 1: like to show them how great the PGA Tour is.
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the end of the story, because
Speaker 1: there's just no way that it's not like like I
Speaker 1: would guess that the Green Jackets are pro PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: They're obviously smart enough to not kind of play it
Speaker 1: down the line, and uh, you know, Sergeant is by
Speaker 1: far and away. It seems like one of the best
Speaker 1: young players coming up and they want to keep the
Speaker 1: end of story. To me, Yeah, that that has the
Speaker 1: ring of truth. I mean, there has been a movement
Speaker 1: for a while to include the double a champion among
Speaker 1: AUTOMATICUM invites to the Masters, and as uh, you know,
Speaker 1: fred Ridley, who was the last US Amateur champion not
Speaker 1: to turn pro. He's the answer to the trivir question.
Speaker 1: He certainly venerates the amateur game and he's been involved
Speaker 1: in his whole life. And so I could see that
Speaker 1: and something this was being discussed. That's something he wanted.
Speaker 1: He wasn't st pull the trigger. And then yeah, a
Speaker 1: few phone calls from Jay and Tiger and Rory maybe
Speaker 1: nudge in one direction. But um, I think I think
Speaker 1: it's the right call. I mean, the amateurs always add
Speaker 1: had a nice touch. There's only eighty guys in the field.
Speaker 1: He's the eightieth player in the master's field. I mean
Speaker 1: it's really small. There's been some years where they've gotten
Speaker 1: it up up into the into the nineties and approached
Speaker 1: a hundred I mean eight players at a major like
Speaker 1: and you know a bunch of them are are past
Speaker 1: champs or let's say past their prime. Like it's a
Speaker 1: time you feel they who they would be. It might
Speaker 1: behoove them to invite some other guys and just just
Speaker 1: to get more depth. I mean, to be wild if
Speaker 1: if winning the Master's got to fewer world ranking points
Speaker 1: than winning you know, l I opened but it could happen,
Speaker 1: you know now that the changes are stacked towards bigger fields.
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that really the Green Jackets care about that,
Speaker 1: but it's really where the games headed. Like it's acceptance
Speaker 1: that bigger the field, the harder is to win. That's
Speaker 1: baked in the world ranking out and so I have
Speaker 1: only eighty guys in them after that, um, I think
Speaker 1: that they think they looked around and said, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: expand this a little bit, so we'll see if any
Speaker 1: any others come down the line. Though, that's an interesting
Speaker 1: subtext in this era where again no major has to
Speaker 1: use the world ranking because it's as it's criteria for
Speaker 1: filling out the field. That's just been the recent tradition.
Speaker 1: It used to be the money list, it used to
Speaker 1: be other things like so maybe maybe this is also
Speaker 1: the Green Jackets set a way of the emphasizing the
Speaker 1: world ranking and saying, you know what we recognize as
Speaker 1: flawed right now, and we're just we're an invitational or
Speaker 1: we're going to really lean into that so we don't
Speaker 1: bite ten more guys. And I think I think that'd
Speaker 1: be cool. Why not when you think about a player
Speaker 1: like Wills Altars who grew up playing a lot of
Speaker 1: golf with Lanny Watkins and Lanny's sons, and uh played
Speaker 1: a lot of golf with Lee Trubino. Um, there's a
Speaker 1: golfer who's in this system of the pathway to the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. Cam Smith is not in that system, and
Speaker 1: even Brooks, Cupcambryson, Dish and Bow and Dustin Johnson are
Speaker 1: not really in that system. Um, but uh, young Gordon
Speaker 1: Sergeant could be and you if you're the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: you would want him to be. And guys of course
Speaker 1: returning pro younger and younger right now. Uh So with
Speaker 1: all that in mind, I think it's smart, right I mean,
Speaker 1: ire Michael, I think it's smart too. And the changes
Speaker 1: with p G A two or you, um, you know,
Speaker 1: make it easier. He used to be towards seniors. Now
Speaker 1: you can earn points enough that basically, you know, Gordon Sargent,
Speaker 1: assuming he can meet some milestones, can walk right onto
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour whatever year he wants to turn pro.
Speaker 1: So I mean there's we have said many times on
Speaker 1: this podcast that to me, the PGA Tour losing older
Speaker 1: guys at seven doesn't really mean much but they start
Speaker 1: losing and see a champions or US Amateur champions and
Speaker 1: they have already. Uh that that's the core problem of
Speaker 1: of what the future is, assuming that live is playing
Speaker 1: the long game, right. You want the dream machine to
Speaker 1: be for any American kid. Of course it's a great,
Speaker 1: big world out there, but let's just speak for for
Speaker 1: a minute for American kids. And of course America does
Speaker 1: produce a tremendous amount of golf talent. You want the
Speaker 1: dream machine to be play really good college golf for
Speaker 1: a year or two or three or four and play
Speaker 1: your way onto the PHA Tour because that's what has
Speaker 1: worked forever. And if that stops working, then the PA
Speaker 1: Tour really has a problem. I talked to Tom Kimn
Speaker 1: this week most have ever spent time with them, and
Speaker 1: it was it was cute. He said, I've only ever
Speaker 1: dreamed about playing the PJA Tour. That's what I grew up.
Speaker 1: That's that's dream has never left me and I can't
Speaker 1: wrap my head around any other dream. And uh, it
Speaker 1: was just kind of a throwback, like there's something powerful
Speaker 1: about about that. It's what you watched, it's what it's
Speaker 1: what was that was your target and he's young enough,
Speaker 1: I guess to still be it an idealist. So I
Speaker 1: think there's some that's probably the strongest thing that tour has.
Speaker 1: I mean, product against product is definitely better than Live.
Speaker 1: I think they'll do that, but it's probably the baked
Speaker 1: in nostalgia and the years and years of of Uh.
Speaker 1: He was aspirational and it's hard to let go of that,
Speaker 1: especially for these young guys. You know, when you go
Speaker 1: to these court own dramas and like, you know what,
Speaker 1: the prosecutor makes his argument, You're like, yeah, that's really good,
Speaker 1: and then the defense gets up there, Yeah that's really good.
Speaker 1: Like you don't know where which way to go. So
Speaker 1: now that you've been sort of going back and forth
Speaker 1: between Live and the PGA Tour, do you find yourself
Speaker 1: sort of how are you handling the whiplash of it all? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That that's it's a good question because what I'm always
Speaker 1: talking to people on both sides and they're they're all
Speaker 1: very passionate, and it does like it does sway you
Speaker 1: nudges you, um, you know I And it's been interesting,
Speaker 1: Like I got my hands on this hundred and sixteen
Speaker 1: page Perspectives from the World Golf series, which is what
Speaker 1: became the PGL, which is what basically Live people stole.
Speaker 1: And when you when you read through this document, which
Speaker 1: is really well thought out and really well written by
Speaker 1: this guy, Andy Gardeners' obsessive golf fan and successful corporate
Speaker 1: attorney type in the UK. Everything it's like this great
Speaker 1: pieces and it makes sense and you get fired up, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. In practice it hasn't looked out quite as well,
Speaker 1: but I think all of all the golf was right
Speaker 1: for change. Like like you said, I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 1: appeal to a lot of sports fans. This is too slow,
Speaker 1: it's too boring. It's not the world we're living anymore.
Speaker 1: But it's also it's charmed. So Live represents this jazz
Speaker 1: year new way of packaging it. The tour represents, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of the old virtues of the game. I see,
Speaker 1: I see the merit and both sides, and I think's
Speaker 1: gonna run for office, Unlike just like play that right
Speaker 1: down the middle. I mean it's just like yet Ryan, also, Alan,
Speaker 1: you can run that. You can run with this Switzerland
Speaker 1: thing for a while. Yeah words of Switzerland. I know
Speaker 1: you can't and you won't. That's part of my things.
Speaker 1: I haven't finished the books, so I don't want people
Speaker 1: to know my true feelings because then drop after readers. Right,
Speaker 1: But I mean like, I don't even that's like asking
Speaker 1: a question about social security and we ended up on
Speaker 1: like the border. You know, what the hell did you
Speaker 1: just say? Like? Oh, and this I me talking to
Speaker 1: like we were on the PGL The man just asked
Speaker 1: you whether you like to live or the PGA tour.
Speaker 1: We're talking about a sixteen hundred sixteen page document. What
Speaker 1: the fun did you just say? Let the record show
Speaker 1: Ryan's first f momb of this broadcast tssib me the
Speaker 1: first of the new year. That's valid, Ryan, I'll take something.
Speaker 1: But I've said this before. My idea of neutrality is
Speaker 1: being critical on both sides. I think that's going to
Speaker 1: be the tone of my book, and I think that
Speaker 1: reflects my innermost feelings. Well, I see the merrit what
Speaker 1: both sides have done. They both have screwed things up
Speaker 1: left and right. It's fun to get into that super
Speaker 1: super super nerdy question. What pg L did they ever
Speaker 1: have Saudi backing or the promise of Saudi backing? Even yes,
Speaker 1: so this is He's all gonna be in chapter five, Michael.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the um, I'm already bored on, so just
Speaker 1: give me the answering reflected general public. Yes, so they
Speaker 1: they needed more money. The Saudies were not part of it.
Speaker 1: It was basically all European and some Australian money. But
Speaker 1: as things progressed and you know, the tour and European
Speaker 1: Tour through the Strategic Alliance in two thousand twenty, and
Speaker 1: it became clear that they were gonna need more of
Speaker 1: a war chest and if the players were gonna jump,
Speaker 1: they needed upfront guaranteed money. They didn't have that. They
Speaker 1: went to the Saudis to help finance it. On the
Speaker 1: saudiastl Andy Andy Gardner people went to the SU and
Speaker 1: the studies like, wow, this is a cool idea. Thanks,
Speaker 1: We're gonna in every word of this hundred sixty page
Speaker 1: document and we're gonna call it live golf. And that's
Speaker 1: more or less what they did. And I totally expect
Speaker 1: this will get litigated in various jurisdictions because when you
Speaker 1: read this PGL document, I mean it is the live
Speaker 1: golf to a t. Maybe they had the nickname the
Speaker 1: Niblicks for one of the Jeams. No, but do you
Speaker 1: have a list of a proved names And it's like
Speaker 1: the Wholfhounds, the Samurai. You could see them for being
Speaker 1: stupid if they did. Was Norman ever associated with PGF No, No,
Speaker 1: not to my knowledge, he he was. He was associated
Speaker 1: with the Saudis and they had this first Shaudy Golf summow.
Speaker 1: He was a paid speaker. And so this is actually,
Speaker 1: I think what's gonna be interesting in this book to
Speaker 1: a lot of people is the cloak and dag or
Speaker 1: courtroom knock out, boardroom drama, and the backstabbing and the
Speaker 1: betrayal because to the top executive from the PGL went
Speaker 1: over to Live Golf and that was like, you know,
Speaker 1: we talk about the hat feels in the McCoys and
Speaker 1: so it's just it's fascinating how this idea worked its
Speaker 1: way through this whole ecosystem. All the people who touched
Speaker 1: it were affected by it. And that was actually something
Speaker 1: I asked Monahanton because I've been trying to what did
Speaker 1: Jay know and when did he know? They actually say
Speaker 1: that about Nixon and water Gate, And I finally got
Speaker 1: Monahan on record that he had heard about this World
Speaker 1: Golf series which was the three cursor of the PGL
Speaker 1: in two thousand seventeen, and so that was an interesting
Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle to me. I got join Speed,
Speaker 1: who was a player director back then, to amplify some
Speaker 1: of that. And like, this has been kicking around for
Speaker 1: a long time. Different iteration. I'm sure remember when when
Speaker 1: Davis told us, uh that, he said to Jay, you're
Speaker 1: you're freaking out here? What are you so nervous about? Basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot. There's a lot to be nervous about. A
Speaker 1: lot of smart people didn't really see a threat coming
Speaker 1: or downplayed it or didn't know how to react or
Speaker 1: got got caught, you know, sleep at the wheel and
Speaker 1: picked your metaphor. But um, it's fastening to tease it
Speaker 1: all out. And that's that's where I am in the book.
Speaker 1: And so it's had reporting in real time. This week
Speaker 1: has been cool. We had a pandemic going on. I
Speaker 1: mean I remember talking to Norman in this period early
Speaker 1: two first let's say, three months of the pandemic and
Speaker 1: Norman's working on this thing every day and like, I'm stunned.
Speaker 1: Here's this impetuous man who's like, yeah, we'll wait it out.
Speaker 1: Waited out, we've never had this pandemic before. How are
Speaker 1: you gonna be a who's gonna be alive at the
Speaker 1: end of this thing? Well, it's all part of it.
Speaker 1: Because the pandemic. European Tour is getting killed and they're
Speaker 1: playing they're playing events with you know, the person like
Speaker 1: twenty bucks, and that became an opening for the PGL.
Speaker 1: They tried to partner for the European Tour that got
Speaker 1: Monahan's antenna. Of all of a sudden, you know, the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour swooped in with the strategic alliance that was
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't care about the Europeans or what
Speaker 1: they cared about was rebuffing these outside influences and so
Speaker 1: and and then at some point that the European Tour
Speaker 1: then they had given up their leverage and so they've
Speaker 1: been easily cast aside because they're like it is fascinating
Speaker 1: as a as as a cloak and dagger business story.
Speaker 1: It's it's so much fun to piece it all together,
Speaker 1: like and there's a lot of people don't know, and
Speaker 1: there's a ton that I've learned along in the way
Speaker 1: and getting all these you know, uh, big time corporate
Speaker 1: dudes and and financiers, lawyers to talk to me. That's
Speaker 1: been a fun challenge. And so I'm getting more and
Speaker 1: more excited about this book because I get deeper into it,
Speaker 1: because I'm feeling back all these mysteries, and people are
Speaker 1: starting to give it up and start starting to get
Speaker 1: a deeper understanding of how we got to this moment.
Speaker 1: I need the broad strips, of course, but it runs
Speaker 1: really deep and it's a cool story. Can we let
Speaker 1: our poor producer, Jake, who's probably just I mean, I
Speaker 1: would love to have a cam on. So for those
Speaker 1: that don't know, Jake Muldoonney is our producer, A die
Speaker 1: hard Packers fan. I'm a Lions fan. But the Lions
Speaker 1: lost so today or the Seahawks one today, so the
Speaker 1: Lions don't have a chance. But the Lions and the
Speaker 1: Packers are currently playing for the last playoff spot. The
Speaker 1: Packers need to win to get in. It's sixteen to
Speaker 1: thirteen currently, and Jake usually like slams chairs and like
Speaker 1: goes insane during the game. So I can only imagine
Speaker 1: what this poor guy is going through as we'd like
Speaker 1: talking about the golf, and it's almost the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: It is the start of the fourth quarter. Currently, can
Speaker 1: we just let this guy go so he can go
Speaker 1: and sane quietly forget, forget the listener. Let's let's end
Speaker 1: this podcastah and have to home tonight. But let's make
Speaker 1: a nod to our corporate sponsors, Century and FedEx. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you gents and ladies and gentlemen of Centry and FedEx.
Speaker 1: Um to use the phrase, Allen's you help us keep
Speaker 1: the lights on and keep this whole thing going. And
Speaker 1: we're just glad to have you in our corner. I
Speaker 1: know this is not a customary role for me, but
Speaker 1: I just feel moved to say that I only wish
Speaker 1: Mr Smith from FedEx were with us right now so
Speaker 1: we might chut him up. One of them can have
Speaker 1: a little little interview about it terrible and I believe
Speaker 1: you met Mr Smith with Echo Shoe Soul. I would
Speaker 1: they are. Luckily we don't do a CEO interview here
Speaker 1: on the Fire Drill podcast. It's only myself, Alan, Michael
Speaker 1: Bamberger and Ryan French. We appreciate you listening, Um. The
Speaker 1: start of a new year. We'll be come at you
Speaker 1: guys every Sunday more or less in perpetuity. Um. But
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to this one. I'm gonna go catch
Speaker 1: a sense at your Maui and Michael, Philadelphia, Brian and
Speaker 1: Mr Get Jake and San Diego h thanks for listening,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here. Happy New Year, and we'll do
Speaker 1: it again soon. That's yet bigly to win a fortune
Speaker 1: with my ship game. I ran the table and thought
Speaker 1: all then win, hit me, lack a cannon, the ball,
Speaker 1: and now shake losing the street. Every road I take
Speaker 1: is a dead end street. I got thoughts in my head,
Speaker 1: can't get him out, trying not to think what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about. I got thoughts in my head, I can't
Speaker 1: get him out, and trying not to think what I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about