1 00:00:16,897 --> 00:00:28,017 Speaker 1: Pushkin Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus. 2 00:00:28,537 --> 00:00:33,177 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts. 3 00:00:33,737 --> 00:00:37,177 Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my 4 00:00:37,257 --> 00:00:39,937 Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a 5 00:00:39,937 --> 00:00:42,337 Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week. 6 00:00:42,977 --> 00:00:46,697 Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts 7 00:00:47,017 --> 00:00:51,897 Speaker 1: like Revisionist History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign 8 00:00:51,977 --> 00:01:06,737 Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus and Apple podcast subscriptions. I think 9 00:01:06,817 --> 00:01:11,777 Speaker 1: the hardest thing about writing a memoir in any form, 10 00:01:11,897 --> 00:01:16,457 Speaker 1: any length is stepping forward. It's just like the act 11 00:01:16,497 --> 00:01:18,857 Speaker 1: of stepping forward. So I want you to understand that 12 00:01:18,897 --> 00:01:25,817 Speaker 1: what you're doing is also an active resistance. Ninjin Lee 13 00:01:25,857 --> 00:01:31,137 Speaker 1: knows a lot about resistance. As a writer, professor, and advocate. 14 00:01:31,417 --> 00:01:35,097 Speaker 1: She has spent her career pushing back against the patriarchy 15 00:01:35,497 --> 00:01:39,457 Speaker 1: racism in her community and encouraging a new generation of 16 00:01:39,537 --> 00:01:44,257 Speaker 1: readers to do the same. In her writing, Men reminds 17 00:01:44,297 --> 00:01:47,177 Speaker 1: us not to let the choices we've made for ourselves 18 00:01:47,377 --> 00:01:51,697 Speaker 1: to be our only story. In her activism, Men give 19 00:01:51,777 --> 00:01:55,417 Speaker 1: space to emerging writers, knowing that the path to creating 20 00:01:55,457 --> 00:01:59,817 Speaker 1: work is filled with roadblocks, especially for women. Of color. 21 00:02:01,457 --> 00:02:04,417 Speaker 1: Her career has given us a model to follow where 22 00:02:04,497 --> 00:02:07,857 Speaker 1: being your complete self is its own act of resistance. 23 00:02:25,257 --> 00:02:28,737 Speaker 1: Welcome to well Bred Black Girl, the literary kickback you 24 00:02:28,777 --> 00:02:33,097 Speaker 1: didn't know you need it. I'm your host, Glory Adam. 25 00:02:33,137 --> 00:02:36,257 Speaker 1: Each week, I'll speak with my favorite authors, makers, and 26 00:02:36,417 --> 00:02:40,297 Speaker 1: thinkers about how they found their voice, hone their craft, 27 00:02:40,817 --> 00:02:46,057 Speaker 1: navigated publishing, and showed up in the world. After the Break, 28 00:02:46,297 --> 00:02:49,537 Speaker 1: author Minjin Lee and I will talk about her early career, 29 00:02:49,897 --> 00:02:52,697 Speaker 1: how she advocates for young authors, and what she has 30 00:02:52,777 --> 00:03:09,537 Speaker 1: learned about being an immigrant writer. Menjin Lee was a 31 00:03:09,577 --> 00:03:13,417 Speaker 1: student of bellehook not just in the classroom, but in life, 32 00:03:14,377 --> 00:03:17,177 Speaker 1: immigrating to the US when she was seven years old. 33 00:03:17,417 --> 00:03:20,177 Speaker 1: Growing up in Queens, New York, Lee was a young 34 00:03:20,297 --> 00:03:24,817 Speaker 1: lawyer before she left to follow her calling becoming a writer. 35 00:03:26,217 --> 00:03:29,137 Speaker 1: In college, she learned from the one and only Belle 36 00:03:29,217 --> 00:03:33,577 Speaker 1: Hooks that community and the power of her ethics define 37 00:03:33,777 --> 00:03:37,817 Speaker 1: how she moves through the world. Like Belle Hooks, men 38 00:03:37,897 --> 00:03:41,817 Speaker 1: Jin Lee is encouraging young writers and mentoring emerging artists 39 00:03:41,817 --> 00:03:45,697 Speaker 1: of color in an industry not built for them. In 40 00:03:45,697 --> 00:03:49,537 Speaker 1: her acclaimed novels, but Chinko and Free Food for millionaires. 41 00:03:49,537 --> 00:03:53,417 Speaker 1: She speaks to the immigrant experience. In her upcoming memoir, 42 00:03:53,777 --> 00:03:56,497 Speaker 1: she will open the door to her personal journey of 43 00:03:56,577 --> 00:03:59,777 Speaker 1: self discovery and how creating the world you wish to 44 00:03:59,817 --> 00:04:04,257 Speaker 1: live in is within reach. I spoke to Men a 45 00:04:04,297 --> 00:04:07,617 Speaker 1: few weeks before bell Hooks is passing, so there won't 46 00:04:07,617 --> 00:04:10,977 Speaker 1: be any mention of that in our conversation. You can 47 00:04:11,097 --> 00:04:15,017 Speaker 1: hear the joy, the sheer joy, in Men's voice whenever 48 00:04:15,097 --> 00:04:26,137 Speaker 1: she speaks of her teacher. I remember the first time 49 00:04:26,177 --> 00:04:30,937 Speaker 1: meeting you. We were no, no, this was actually at 50 00:04:31,017 --> 00:04:35,177 Speaker 1: book expo. Oh, yes, we were ever years ago, I know, 51 00:04:35,377 --> 00:04:38,217 Speaker 1: And I remember this was like the very beginning of 52 00:04:38,337 --> 00:04:40,497 Speaker 1: Well Read Black Girl, and I was like so nervous. 53 00:04:40,537 --> 00:04:42,337 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I'm gonna have lunch with men, 54 00:04:42,617 --> 00:04:44,537 Speaker 1: Like what do I do? Like should I bring something? 55 00:04:44,577 --> 00:04:48,137 Speaker 1: And you were just so kind and so generous because 56 00:04:48,137 --> 00:04:50,617 Speaker 1: I was struggling, like I don't belong people aren't going 57 00:04:50,657 --> 00:04:53,217 Speaker 1: to take me seriously, and you were just like, stop it. 58 00:04:53,897 --> 00:04:56,897 Speaker 1: You're here, You're enough, and you belong here. And this 59 00:04:56,937 --> 00:05:01,057 Speaker 1: was in the first five minutes of us meeting each other. Oh. Well, 60 00:05:01,137 --> 00:05:06,257 Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because whenever I see young folks 61 00:05:07,177 --> 00:05:09,657 Speaker 1: going author and doing things they want to do. I 62 00:05:09,697 --> 00:05:12,857 Speaker 1: just feel like, what and I do to build some 63 00:05:12,977 --> 00:05:17,057 Speaker 1: part of your scaffolding because I didn't have so much 64 00:05:17,057 --> 00:05:21,097 Speaker 1: to that in my publishing career. I think that is 65 00:05:21,137 --> 00:05:25,017 Speaker 1: what keeps you at the forefronts creatively and otherwise, because 66 00:05:25,177 --> 00:05:27,977 Speaker 1: you're thinking in a way that's progressive. It's moving us forward. 67 00:05:28,057 --> 00:05:30,737 Speaker 1: Oh thank you. It's so interesting because you're not only 68 00:05:31,337 --> 00:05:34,017 Speaker 1: a phenomenal writer, you're also an incredible lawyer as well, 69 00:05:34,017 --> 00:05:38,897 Speaker 1: and your trajectory has just had so many unconventional turns weird. 70 00:05:39,577 --> 00:05:41,537 Speaker 1: But can we start at the beginning on how you 71 00:05:41,657 --> 00:05:45,257 Speaker 1: even decided to write this story? How you even change 72 00:05:45,297 --> 00:05:48,937 Speaker 1: from becoming a lawyer to being a writer? Oh gosh, 73 00:05:48,937 --> 00:05:52,737 Speaker 1: I was. I was twenty five when I was really 74 00:05:52,817 --> 00:05:55,297 Speaker 1: unhappy as a lawyer, and then twenty six I was 75 00:05:55,337 --> 00:05:58,737 Speaker 1: still working really hard as a lawyer. And then one 76 00:05:58,777 --> 00:06:01,497 Speaker 1: day I got a really super hard assignment after finishing 77 00:06:01,497 --> 00:06:04,537 Speaker 1: another super hard assignment, and I'd build three hundred hours 78 00:06:04,657 --> 00:06:08,817 Speaker 1: in the office in a month, and I thought, I 79 00:06:08,897 --> 00:06:11,777 Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. I can't do this anymore. And 80 00:06:11,817 --> 00:06:16,537 Speaker 1: then I wrote my first novel, which God rejected everywhere. 81 00:06:16,577 --> 00:06:19,137 Speaker 1: I wrote a second novel which was a precursor to Pachinko. 82 00:06:19,217 --> 00:06:21,417 Speaker 1: And then I wrote another novel which became Free Food 83 00:06:21,417 --> 00:06:24,537 Speaker 1: for Millionaires, which I published in two thousand and seven, 84 00:06:25,097 --> 00:06:28,577 Speaker 1: So I quit in nineteen ninety five, and then I 85 00:06:28,617 --> 00:06:31,137 Speaker 1: published in two thousand and seven, which means it took 86 00:06:31,177 --> 00:06:34,697 Speaker 1: twelve years to publish a book. So when I seem 87 00:06:34,817 --> 00:06:39,217 Speaker 1: grateful to have published two books, it comes out of 88 00:06:39,217 --> 00:06:44,497 Speaker 1: this space of it takes longer for us. Yeah, it 89 00:06:44,497 --> 00:06:46,977 Speaker 1: just takes longer for us. It takes longer for women. 90 00:06:46,977 --> 00:06:49,457 Speaker 1: It takes longer for women of color. It takes longer 91 00:06:49,497 --> 00:06:52,617 Speaker 1: for people of color. It takes longer if you don't 92 00:06:52,617 --> 00:06:59,697 Speaker 1: have connections, if you don't have powerful friends, And it's fine, 93 00:07:00,097 --> 00:07:02,577 Speaker 1: you just keep going, You just keep going. But it 94 00:07:02,657 --> 00:07:04,977 Speaker 1: motivated me to write Pachinko, which is my second book, 95 00:07:05,177 --> 00:07:06,817 Speaker 1: was a story that I heard in college, and I 96 00:07:06,857 --> 00:07:11,297 Speaker 1: carried that with me. Yeah, I love the first line 97 00:07:11,297 --> 00:07:15,297 Speaker 1: of Pinchingko. History has failed us, but no matter. And 98 00:07:15,537 --> 00:07:18,577 Speaker 1: I'm thinking so much of the present moment and the 99 00:07:18,617 --> 00:07:23,457 Speaker 1: work that you do, as I mean, would you call 100 00:07:23,537 --> 00:07:28,537 Speaker 1: yourself a historian? Oh golly, you know that's a real 101 00:07:28,657 --> 00:07:33,497 Speaker 1: honorific for me, because I have so much respect for 102 00:07:33,617 --> 00:07:37,337 Speaker 1: history and for historians. I try to approach it like 103 00:07:37,377 --> 00:07:42,177 Speaker 1: a journalist, historians, sociologist, anthropologist, and a little bit like 104 00:07:42,217 --> 00:07:47,817 Speaker 1: a legal person because I'm so pissed about everything, Like 105 00:07:47,857 --> 00:07:52,577 Speaker 1: I'm so angry about everything around the world, because I'm 106 00:07:52,577 --> 00:07:56,017 Speaker 1: so disappointed. People don't think I'm an angry person when 107 00:07:56,057 --> 00:07:59,097 Speaker 1: they meet me, but inside I'm pissed. I just want 108 00:07:59,137 --> 00:08:01,337 Speaker 1: you to know that behind a smile, I'm really angry 109 00:08:01,457 --> 00:08:04,457 Speaker 1: because I think things are so unfair. I think things 110 00:08:04,497 --> 00:08:06,377 Speaker 1: are so unfair, and I think it's because I'm so 111 00:08:06,457 --> 00:08:10,897 Speaker 1: attached to fairness for the world, for everybody, and trying 112 00:08:10,937 --> 00:08:12,857 Speaker 1: to figure out, well, how does my work as a 113 00:08:12,897 --> 00:08:16,897 Speaker 1: writer approach that, what can I do to sort of 114 00:08:16,897 --> 00:08:20,897 Speaker 1: create change? And somewhere along the line, I've decided that somehow, 115 00:08:20,977 --> 00:08:25,657 Speaker 1: telling stories, either in fiction or in nonfiction, we can 116 00:08:25,897 --> 00:08:30,017 Speaker 1: approach a new reality. So even though I'm writing history 117 00:08:30,537 --> 00:08:33,177 Speaker 1: for my second book, in a way, I'm actually creating 118 00:08:33,177 --> 00:08:36,377 Speaker 1: a new version of the world that I want. Yes, yes, 119 00:08:36,657 --> 00:08:40,537 Speaker 1: I'm listening. Way, I really believe in moving towards things 120 00:08:40,577 --> 00:08:43,337 Speaker 1: that will, you know, impact our life for the good, 121 00:08:43,657 --> 00:08:47,097 Speaker 1: because I think that, like there's something to be said 122 00:08:47,217 --> 00:08:52,097 Speaker 1: about this responsibility of telling stories when it comes to 123 00:08:52,177 --> 00:08:54,697 Speaker 1: being a person of color, being a black woman, and 124 00:08:54,737 --> 00:08:57,337 Speaker 1: to tell them accurately. Right, let's make sure we're like 125 00:08:57,377 --> 00:09:00,617 Speaker 1: represented in a right way, because we know what it's 126 00:09:00,657 --> 00:09:03,377 Speaker 1: like to have our history forgotten and a raised and 127 00:09:03,497 --> 00:09:05,937 Speaker 1: to be not cited. So in a lot of ways, 128 00:09:05,977 --> 00:09:09,537 Speaker 1: we are like using our writing to correct their storical record. 129 00:09:10,217 --> 00:09:14,297 Speaker 1: You know, we're thinking of our collective communities, and we're 130 00:09:14,377 --> 00:09:17,577 Speaker 1: using terms like writer of color, you know, Asian American, 131 00:09:17,657 --> 00:09:22,137 Speaker 1: African American. Can you talk about what it's meant for 132 00:09:22,217 --> 00:09:25,577 Speaker 1: you to really, you know, interact with those terms, whether 133 00:09:25,617 --> 00:09:28,617 Speaker 1: it's writer of color or Asian American, And to what 134 00:09:28,777 --> 00:09:32,777 Speaker 1: extent those have been, you know, identity markers for you 135 00:09:32,937 --> 00:09:35,217 Speaker 1: or even like shaped have you how you see yourself 136 00:09:35,217 --> 00:09:40,017 Speaker 1: and how you share your work with the world. I 137 00:09:40,057 --> 00:09:44,337 Speaker 1: think there are many, many, many writers in my respective 138 00:09:44,337 --> 00:09:49,897 Speaker 1: community who really hate those terms. Hatea Yeah, they'll say, 139 00:09:50,017 --> 00:09:51,857 Speaker 1: don't call me an immigrant writer, don't call me an 140 00:09:51,857 --> 00:09:54,177 Speaker 1: Asian American writer, don't call me a feminist, don't call 141 00:09:54,257 --> 00:09:58,057 Speaker 1: me this. And I understand that, I totally understand that. 142 00:09:58,737 --> 00:10:04,657 Speaker 1: But I am an immigrant writer. I am a daughter 143 00:10:04,697 --> 00:10:08,097 Speaker 1: of refugee. I lean into it. I lean into it 144 00:10:08,137 --> 00:10:12,777 Speaker 1: because I like being Korean a lot. I'm not saying 145 00:10:12,817 --> 00:10:16,457 Speaker 1: they don't. I'm not leaving it at the door. Like 146 00:10:16,497 --> 00:10:19,057 Speaker 1: I'm a Presbyterian. It's like a really weird thing in 147 00:10:19,097 --> 00:10:23,017 Speaker 1: my community that I go to church, but it is 148 00:10:23,057 --> 00:10:24,857 Speaker 1: who I am. It is the way I think about 149 00:10:24,897 --> 00:10:29,697 Speaker 1: the world, and I have just decided that that's just 150 00:10:29,737 --> 00:10:33,417 Speaker 1: the way I work, and I like it. I write 151 00:10:33,417 --> 00:10:35,617 Speaker 1: about Korean people, and yes, there are people too, but 152 00:10:35,657 --> 00:10:38,937 Speaker 1: they're also Korean people. It's a very specific thing, you know. 153 00:10:39,817 --> 00:10:43,497 Speaker 1: I think the way we're understood is something that we 154 00:10:43,617 --> 00:10:47,977 Speaker 1: can control somewhat, but not one hundred percent. But I 155 00:10:48,057 --> 00:10:51,537 Speaker 1: feel a very strong sense of getting things right I do. 156 00:10:51,857 --> 00:10:53,737 Speaker 1: I am going to share a quote with you, one 157 00:10:53,737 --> 00:10:57,497 Speaker 1: of my favorite quotes. Sometimes people try to destroy you 158 00:10:57,657 --> 00:11:01,017 Speaker 1: precisely because they recognize your power, not because they don't 159 00:11:01,057 --> 00:11:03,177 Speaker 1: see it, but because they see it and they don't 160 00:11:03,177 --> 00:11:06,297 Speaker 1: want it to exist. And that is from the one 161 00:11:06,337 --> 00:11:09,617 Speaker 1: and only Bellehooks, who is your professor at one point 162 00:11:09,697 --> 00:11:13,697 Speaker 1: and one of the writers that influences you. Oh my gosh, 163 00:11:13,697 --> 00:11:18,417 Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Well, just so much respect for Bell Hooks. 164 00:11:18,417 --> 00:11:26,017 Speaker 1: What a pioneer of thinking, what a pioneer of intellectual magnitude, 165 00:11:26,457 --> 00:11:28,577 Speaker 1: And I feel like she really doesn't get the kind 166 00:11:28,617 --> 00:11:31,137 Speaker 1: of credit that she deserves. Do you have like a 167 00:11:31,177 --> 00:11:34,297 Speaker 1: memory of being and Belle Hooks's class or anything that 168 00:11:34,337 --> 00:11:36,577 Speaker 1: you'd like to share with us. Oh, I've took two 169 00:11:36,617 --> 00:11:40,657 Speaker 1: of her classes, So I remember being a young person 170 00:11:41,257 --> 00:11:45,297 Speaker 1: thinking my life is changing, My life is changing because 171 00:11:47,337 --> 00:11:53,297 Speaker 1: I value my thoughts as a thinker. Now that may 172 00:11:53,377 --> 00:11:56,097 Speaker 1: seem like a dumb thing for other people, but for me, 173 00:11:56,177 --> 00:12:01,137 Speaker 1: I didn't see myself as an intellectual. Like witnessing Belle Hooks, 174 00:12:01,257 --> 00:12:06,737 Speaker 1: Gloria Watkins honoring our thoughts collectively and individually and thinking 175 00:12:06,737 --> 00:12:11,257 Speaker 1: about what we said really seriously, you start to wonder, oh, 176 00:12:11,297 --> 00:12:14,097 Speaker 1: maybe I matter, Like maybe the things that I say matter. 177 00:12:14,337 --> 00:12:16,737 Speaker 1: And it wasn't like when I was a child or 178 00:12:16,817 --> 00:12:19,137 Speaker 1: even a young person people walked around and saying like, Oh, 179 00:12:19,177 --> 00:12:23,057 Speaker 1: tell me, what do you think? They were waiting for 180 00:12:23,177 --> 00:12:26,657 Speaker 1: my great thoughts or my great words. So in a way, 181 00:12:27,297 --> 00:12:29,817 Speaker 1: to be in the presence of such a great mind, 182 00:12:31,137 --> 00:12:34,897 Speaker 1: it's really quite an honor. And she was so clear 183 00:12:35,257 --> 00:12:40,057 Speaker 1: about the brilliance of the literature created by black women 184 00:12:40,137 --> 00:12:43,937 Speaker 1: in this country, and and she made us see the 185 00:12:44,017 --> 00:12:47,697 Speaker 1: books not just for what they are beautiful artworks, but 186 00:12:47,777 --> 00:12:52,297 Speaker 1: also contextually. And I think that really changed me. It 187 00:12:52,497 --> 00:12:54,657 Speaker 1: really really changed me. And I didn't even know I 188 00:12:54,697 --> 00:12:57,097 Speaker 1: was being changed in that moment. And that's the power 189 00:12:57,457 --> 00:13:00,777 Speaker 1: that you have as a great person, I think, Yeah, 190 00:13:00,977 --> 00:13:04,297 Speaker 1: that was the same reaction for me encountering Bellhooks. It 191 00:13:04,377 --> 00:13:07,537 Speaker 1: was just like a media belonging. And then she also 192 00:13:07,577 --> 00:13:10,177 Speaker 1: allows you to question the things that you don't understand. 193 00:13:10,297 --> 00:13:12,857 Speaker 1: She is like encouraging you to question your own position 194 00:13:12,897 --> 00:13:15,057 Speaker 1: and your own power. And I don't think I had 195 00:13:15,097 --> 00:13:18,937 Speaker 1: done that before encountering her work. Yeah. And the other 196 00:13:18,937 --> 00:13:21,297 Speaker 1: person who really changed me, and I never had a 197 00:13:21,377 --> 00:13:23,537 Speaker 1: chance to meet her as Audrey Lord. I read her 198 00:13:23,497 --> 00:13:26,057 Speaker 1: at the same time. Yes, there's something to be said 199 00:13:26,097 --> 00:13:29,737 Speaker 1: about reading something and being completely and instantly ragalized, Like 200 00:13:29,777 --> 00:13:32,737 Speaker 1: you're just like, my life is changing through reading this 201 00:13:32,857 --> 00:13:36,537 Speaker 1: because I can see another way and recalling those moments 202 00:13:36,537 --> 00:13:41,817 Speaker 1: as first encountering Audrey Lord and Belle Hooks. As a teacher, 203 00:13:42,337 --> 00:13:45,577 Speaker 1: how do you then share that information with your students? 204 00:13:45,737 --> 00:13:48,257 Speaker 1: That what a great question, Glory, what a great question. 205 00:13:48,697 --> 00:13:54,177 Speaker 1: Instant radicalization right that scares people and I'm like, no, no, no, no, 206 00:13:54,457 --> 00:13:56,537 Speaker 1: you need this like you need water and air. And 207 00:13:56,617 --> 00:14:01,257 Speaker 1: it's not radicalization of the way people think of something scary. 208 00:14:02,417 --> 00:14:07,497 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful, powerful thing. Yeah. And I want to 209 00:14:07,537 --> 00:14:11,337 Speaker 1: talk about the importance of Audrey Lord's work and Belle 210 00:14:11,337 --> 00:14:13,737 Speaker 1: Hoax's work and the other persons can really crunch on 211 00:14:13,777 --> 00:14:17,057 Speaker 1: the word just a one word, intersectionality. Yes, just that 212 00:14:17,177 --> 00:14:21,177 Speaker 1: one word. If you understand that one word, you can 213 00:14:22,177 --> 00:14:30,297 Speaker 1: understand why your life is complicated and how your identities 214 00:14:30,337 --> 00:14:33,777 Speaker 1: are so complicated. And it's a good thing, not a 215 00:14:33,817 --> 00:14:35,777 Speaker 1: bad thing. And I can't leave part of it at 216 00:14:35,817 --> 00:14:38,697 Speaker 1: the door whenever you just want me to. Yes, I 217 00:14:38,777 --> 00:14:41,137 Speaker 1: got to bring it in. And I think the way 218 00:14:41,137 --> 00:14:45,057 Speaker 1: they have advanced philosophy and thought in the world is 219 00:14:45,097 --> 00:14:48,737 Speaker 1: not being acknowledged. So to go back to your question, 220 00:14:48,777 --> 00:14:51,097 Speaker 1: how do I share this enthusiasm with my students, I 221 00:14:51,137 --> 00:14:52,777 Speaker 1: say exactly what I just said to you right now, 222 00:14:52,817 --> 00:14:57,977 Speaker 1: which is, please don't be scared. Please don't politicize it 223 00:14:58,137 --> 00:15:01,257 Speaker 1: in a negative way just because you don't understand it. 224 00:15:01,297 --> 00:15:05,817 Speaker 1: And also because white supremacy prohibits us from thinking about 225 00:15:05,897 --> 00:15:12,577 Speaker 1: women of color and bipoc women as philosophers as intellectual 226 00:15:12,617 --> 00:15:16,017 Speaker 1: thought leaders. That's going to prevent you from getting your 227 00:15:16,057 --> 00:15:19,297 Speaker 1: superpowers because I'm always saying, hey, you want knowledge, you 228 00:15:19,337 --> 00:15:21,697 Speaker 1: want knowledge from everywhere, and then you want to give 229 00:15:21,697 --> 00:15:25,777 Speaker 1: it credit around the globe, not just in a little 230 00:15:25,817 --> 00:15:41,897 Speaker 1: tiny shelf in a bookstore. I'm Glory Adam, and this 231 00:15:42,017 --> 00:15:44,897 Speaker 1: is well read, black girl. I'm speaking with men gin Lee. 232 00:15:45,377 --> 00:15:47,977 Speaker 1: This conversation reminds me of a picture you shared on 233 00:15:48,017 --> 00:15:51,177 Speaker 1: social media a while ago. It's this beautiful black and 234 00:15:51,217 --> 00:15:53,377 Speaker 1: white photo of you reading on the D train in 235 00:15:53,457 --> 00:15:56,097 Speaker 1: New York. There's Grapeitia all over the train and you 236 00:15:56,137 --> 00:15:58,417 Speaker 1: look so cheek. I'm like, she's fifteen in this picture. 237 00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:02,297 Speaker 1: She looks like a model, so amazing. But what would 238 00:16:02,337 --> 00:16:05,617 Speaker 1: you tell, like young fifteen year old men about the 239 00:16:05,657 --> 00:16:08,777 Speaker 1: woman you've become, the experiences you've had. What would be 240 00:16:08,817 --> 00:16:13,577 Speaker 1: the advice to her? Oh? I love that photograph. It 241 00:16:13,657 --> 00:16:17,857 Speaker 1: was taken because Smithsonian Magazine did a feature on my 242 00:16:17,937 --> 00:16:20,337 Speaker 1: high school, the Bronx High School of Science, and I 243 00:16:20,417 --> 00:16:23,017 Speaker 1: was one of the kids, so they profiled and I 244 00:16:23,097 --> 00:16:27,257 Speaker 1: didn't know about that photograph until much later. But in 245 00:16:27,377 --> 00:16:30,137 Speaker 1: that photograph, and I mentioned this because I think that 246 00:16:30,177 --> 00:16:34,537 Speaker 1: your listeners might understand I'm wearing a thrift store coat, 247 00:16:35,737 --> 00:16:37,897 Speaker 1: like I paid fifteen dollars that coat, and I was 248 00:16:37,897 --> 00:16:40,057 Speaker 1: wearing my little Mickey mouse pin because a friend of 249 00:16:40,057 --> 00:16:41,937 Speaker 1: mine gave it to me, and I thought I looked 250 00:16:41,977 --> 00:16:47,857 Speaker 1: so cool. And then years later I read an essay 251 00:16:48,377 --> 00:16:50,937 Speaker 1: by Bell Hooks about it was like really like one 252 00:16:50,977 --> 00:16:53,257 Speaker 1: of these like seven hundred word essays or something about 253 00:16:53,257 --> 00:16:57,297 Speaker 1: how she had gone to a country in Africa and 254 00:16:57,337 --> 00:17:00,057 Speaker 1: she had gone into a tiny hut and it was 255 00:17:00,137 --> 00:17:03,657 Speaker 1: really spare and clean and beautifully swept, and she said 256 00:17:03,697 --> 00:17:07,937 Speaker 1: it was like a monk's cell, and there was so 257 00:17:08,017 --> 00:17:10,377 Speaker 1: much beauty in it. And then she made this argument 258 00:17:10,777 --> 00:17:13,857 Speaker 1: that being poor doesn't mean that you don't understand aesthetics 259 00:17:13,937 --> 00:17:17,857 Speaker 1: or beauty. Right. So this is the thing that I 260 00:17:17,897 --> 00:17:21,257 Speaker 1: wanted to say about that image and about being a 261 00:17:21,337 --> 00:17:28,697 Speaker 1: young person, is I didn't have much, but I felt 262 00:17:29,137 --> 00:17:32,177 Speaker 1: good about myself and I thought I could create beauty 263 00:17:32,217 --> 00:17:35,497 Speaker 1: even from a thrift store. I thought that I could 264 00:17:35,497 --> 00:17:39,817 Speaker 1: be cool with my little broken down knapsack, my fifteen 265 00:17:39,817 --> 00:17:42,977 Speaker 1: dollars a coat, because in my mind I was powerful 266 00:17:43,017 --> 00:17:48,217 Speaker 1: as a reader. I was reading a book in Spanish, 267 00:17:48,257 --> 00:17:54,617 Speaker 1: like how cool am I I was reading Borhees in Spanish, 268 00:17:54,657 --> 00:17:56,137 Speaker 1: and you know, it was a free book. It wasn't 269 00:17:56,177 --> 00:18:00,737 Speaker 1: even my book. It was a book from school. And 270 00:18:01,137 --> 00:18:05,017 Speaker 1: I'm wearing my dorky glasses. But in my little mind, 271 00:18:05,057 --> 00:18:07,937 Speaker 1: in my kind of fantasy mind, I was creating me 272 00:18:08,857 --> 00:18:13,977 Speaker 1: and I thought, even though nobody knew, I thought that 273 00:18:14,017 --> 00:18:16,857 Speaker 1: I could do it. And that's the thing I really 274 00:18:16,897 --> 00:18:20,137 Speaker 1: want young people to keep. I love em, I love 275 00:18:20,217 --> 00:18:23,617 Speaker 1: you more. I do want to talk to you about 276 00:18:23,697 --> 00:18:27,497 Speaker 1: your memoir. I know you're working on name Recognition and 277 00:18:28,097 --> 00:18:32,457 Speaker 1: the memoir of Visibility and Voice, And what is that 278 00:18:32,497 --> 00:18:35,657 Speaker 1: experience for you right now writing that and reflecting on 279 00:18:35,777 --> 00:18:38,497 Speaker 1: your life. Are there moments that you're really honing in on. 280 00:18:38,697 --> 00:18:41,577 Speaker 1: Is it something that feels at a fine I'm working 281 00:18:41,577 --> 00:18:43,577 Speaker 1: on a memoir right now and it feels terrified. So 282 00:18:43,617 --> 00:18:46,657 Speaker 1: I'm very curious about how this experience for you after 283 00:18:46,697 --> 00:18:48,777 Speaker 1: writing these two incredible novels. What is it like to 284 00:18:48,817 --> 00:18:55,617 Speaker 1: tell your own story? Oh, it's really scary. It's really scary. 285 00:18:55,657 --> 00:18:57,937 Speaker 1: But I write a lot of essays and some people 286 00:18:58,017 --> 00:19:00,537 Speaker 1: say they're really easy to write. They're so hard for 287 00:19:00,577 --> 00:19:03,337 Speaker 1: me to write. They're hard for me to write because 288 00:19:03,457 --> 00:19:06,177 Speaker 1: if you're really honest, you realize that you're going to 289 00:19:06,257 --> 00:19:09,537 Speaker 1: walk out there naked. So when you look at the 290 00:19:09,577 --> 00:19:12,977 Speaker 1: cellulait of your life and you're thinking, well, are people 291 00:19:13,097 --> 00:19:15,457 Speaker 1: going to judge me? And you're like, yeah, some people 292 00:19:15,497 --> 00:19:17,817 Speaker 1: are going to judge you, but how else will they 293 00:19:17,817 --> 00:19:23,257 Speaker 1: know you? And I think working on name recognition is 294 00:19:23,297 --> 00:19:27,417 Speaker 1: all about how do we as PIPOC women feel about 295 00:19:27,457 --> 00:19:31,617 Speaker 1: being known? Right? And I really wonder what you think 296 00:19:31,657 --> 00:19:34,457 Speaker 1: about this glory It's yeah, what it is like you 297 00:19:34,537 --> 00:19:37,377 Speaker 1: have to really like strip down to your core and 298 00:19:37,417 --> 00:19:38,777 Speaker 1: you have to be like you said, you have to 299 00:19:38,777 --> 00:19:41,857 Speaker 1: be messy, and you have to be unafraid of being vulnerable. 300 00:19:42,137 --> 00:19:44,417 Speaker 1: Like it requires you to put your full self out 301 00:19:44,417 --> 00:19:48,097 Speaker 1: there because when you share the you know, the story 302 00:19:48,177 --> 00:19:50,937 Speaker 1: of messing up or failing or taking a risk like 303 00:19:50,977 --> 00:19:53,777 Speaker 1: that is what brings people closer. But I've been trying 304 00:19:53,817 --> 00:19:56,137 Speaker 1: my hardest to really put it all out there in 305 00:19:56,137 --> 00:19:58,617 Speaker 1: the memoir, like because I've been thinking of it as 306 00:19:58,657 --> 00:20:01,537 Speaker 1: a legacy piece too, like this is my family story, 307 00:20:01,617 --> 00:20:03,817 Speaker 1: this is the story my son's gonna read. And I 308 00:20:03,857 --> 00:20:06,457 Speaker 1: guess like the messiest part of my story is definitely 309 00:20:06,537 --> 00:20:09,417 Speaker 1: like you know, how I experience my mom's depression and 310 00:20:09,497 --> 00:20:11,897 Speaker 1: how that impact in my life life and how I 311 00:20:12,057 --> 00:20:14,657 Speaker 1: essentially turned to books as a sense of like healing 312 00:20:14,697 --> 00:20:18,017 Speaker 1: and therapy. But that's very scary to talk about, you know, 313 00:20:18,097 --> 00:20:20,137 Speaker 1: But I also recognize how that can help so many 314 00:20:20,137 --> 00:20:22,937 Speaker 1: people who have been in similar situations or you know, 315 00:20:23,017 --> 00:20:27,377 Speaker 1: being like first generation, being the oldest daughter, like all 316 00:20:27,457 --> 00:20:31,137 Speaker 1: these things. If I'm brave enough to share it can 317 00:20:31,177 --> 00:20:34,017 Speaker 1: really help other people. But it is a challenge for 318 00:20:34,097 --> 00:20:37,137 Speaker 1: shore men because it's like it's your life. You know. 319 00:20:37,777 --> 00:20:41,497 Speaker 1: What you're talking about right now is really an active service. 320 00:20:42,817 --> 00:20:45,577 Speaker 1: And I've thought about this a lot, because if you 321 00:20:45,697 --> 00:20:48,537 Speaker 1: have a love ethic and you have a service ethic, 322 00:20:49,097 --> 00:20:54,977 Speaker 1: and BIPAC women are essentially trained for service. That's true. However, 323 00:20:56,457 --> 00:21:00,137 Speaker 1: if you took that idea and allegorized it in terms 324 00:21:00,137 --> 00:21:03,617 Speaker 1: of our intellectual work as well, in honor and in 325 00:21:03,697 --> 00:21:08,057 Speaker 1: service to our mothers and our grandmothers, our aunts who 326 00:21:08,097 --> 00:21:11,497 Speaker 1: didn't get this opportunity, because why did we get this education, 327 00:21:11,657 --> 00:21:14,817 Speaker 1: why did we get people in our lives and our communities? 328 00:21:14,817 --> 00:21:16,897 Speaker 1: How do we create a sense of service of telling 329 00:21:17,457 --> 00:21:20,977 Speaker 1: the truth about how difficult it was? Yeah, because what 330 00:21:21,017 --> 00:21:26,857 Speaker 1: does depression mean for BIPOC women's lives, especially if you 331 00:21:26,937 --> 00:21:30,537 Speaker 1: are working so hard but telling that story glory, it's 332 00:21:30,537 --> 00:21:35,057 Speaker 1: so important to recognize it's also a story of service 333 00:21:35,057 --> 00:21:39,217 Speaker 1: plus love for your mom. Like we keep thinking about posterity. 334 00:21:39,337 --> 00:21:42,217 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, this is the record that we leave behind. Yes, 335 00:21:42,297 --> 00:21:44,937 Speaker 1: that's true, but perhaps that is the record that you 336 00:21:44,977 --> 00:21:47,137 Speaker 1: need to create in order for you to move ahead. 337 00:21:49,377 --> 00:21:52,657 Speaker 1: You're going to make me cry because it is so true. 338 00:21:52,697 --> 00:21:56,737 Speaker 1: It feels like it's something that I want to not 339 00:21:56,777 --> 00:22:00,057 Speaker 1: only acknowledge for my son and for my mother, but 340 00:22:00,097 --> 00:22:03,537 Speaker 1: for myself too, you know, to like write down my 341 00:22:03,657 --> 00:22:06,657 Speaker 1: complete journey and acknowledge it and move forward from it 342 00:22:06,737 --> 00:22:10,057 Speaker 1: telling a new story. So it has taken a lot 343 00:22:10,097 --> 00:22:12,737 Speaker 1: of time energy to really even get to that place 344 00:22:12,777 --> 00:22:14,737 Speaker 1: of Okay, I can say this, and I can say 345 00:22:14,737 --> 00:22:17,137 Speaker 1: this without being afraid. I have a question for you. 346 00:22:17,177 --> 00:22:19,457 Speaker 1: Am I allowed to ask you a question? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 347 00:22:19,497 --> 00:22:21,977 Speaker 1: go ahead. How did your mom feel about you writing 348 00:22:22,057 --> 00:22:25,497 Speaker 1: your book? Oh? Man, it's been like in the beginning, 349 00:22:25,577 --> 00:22:27,377 Speaker 1: because it's been like three years now, but in the 350 00:22:27,377 --> 00:22:30,097 Speaker 1: beginning she was very like we were doing interviews and 351 00:22:30,177 --> 00:22:33,457 Speaker 1: we were going back and forth, and as it's gotten longer, 352 00:22:33,497 --> 00:22:35,657 Speaker 1: I think she's just like more skeptical. She's like, what 353 00:22:35,737 --> 00:22:38,377 Speaker 1: are you writing? Why is it thinking so long? You know, 354 00:22:39,497 --> 00:22:42,177 Speaker 1: well you just had a baby. Yeah, yeah, that too. 355 00:22:42,577 --> 00:22:46,257 Speaker 1: But she's very supportive, but I think she is curious 356 00:22:46,337 --> 00:22:51,297 Speaker 1: about like what the story fully will be and she 357 00:22:51,377 --> 00:22:54,017 Speaker 1: always reminds me, like, you know, make sure you were 358 00:22:54,057 --> 00:22:56,657 Speaker 1: telling it from your perspective, and it brought us closer 359 00:22:56,657 --> 00:22:59,017 Speaker 1: to it definitely has brought us a lot closer. I 360 00:22:59,097 --> 00:23:03,577 Speaker 1: love that. I think the hardest thing about writing a 361 00:23:03,697 --> 00:23:08,577 Speaker 1: memoir in any form, any length is stepping forward. It's 362 00:23:08,617 --> 00:23:11,617 Speaker 1: just like the act of stopping forward. So I want 363 00:23:11,617 --> 00:23:13,257 Speaker 1: you to understand that what you're doing is also an 364 00:23:13,257 --> 00:23:18,097 Speaker 1: active resistance. Thank you, Thank you man, Thank you for 365 00:23:18,177 --> 00:23:21,417 Speaker 1: just encouragement and just like the clarity of your voice, 366 00:23:21,537 --> 00:23:26,817 Speaker 1: because even having your friendship is also so valuable and 367 00:23:26,897 --> 00:23:28,817 Speaker 1: it gives me like this, I'm like, I can do it. 368 00:23:28,857 --> 00:23:31,177 Speaker 1: I can do this, and I can't. I can't be 369 00:23:31,217 --> 00:23:33,657 Speaker 1: afraid of it. And even when I am afraid, I'm 370 00:23:33,697 --> 00:23:40,297 Speaker 1: going to do it anyway. I'm mentioned Lee and you're 371 00:23:40,377 --> 00:23:49,017 Speaker 1: listening to well read Black Girl. Oh we're gonna do 372 00:23:49,097 --> 00:23:53,577 Speaker 1: rapid fire questions. Oh that's what we're gonna do. We're 373 00:23:53,577 --> 00:23:56,417 Speaker 1: gonna do some fun questions that are gonna be said. 374 00:23:56,457 --> 00:24:01,657 Speaker 1: Boom boom boom. Okay, first thing, name three things on 375 00:24:01,697 --> 00:24:06,217 Speaker 1: your desk, teapot um, your plugs, and my bible? Awesome. 376 00:24:06,857 --> 00:24:10,177 Speaker 1: What are your top three favorite pieces of candy? I 377 00:24:10,297 --> 00:24:14,737 Speaker 1: love Snickers, good one. I also like Mary Jane. That's 378 00:24:14,737 --> 00:24:18,737 Speaker 1: a very old school candy. And I also liked Toots 379 00:24:18,817 --> 00:24:21,937 Speaker 1: year Olds. Oh yeah, that's another class of candy. I 380 00:24:21,977 --> 00:24:25,377 Speaker 1: used to love the City Pops, Oh delicious. Okay. What 381 00:24:25,457 --> 00:24:29,417 Speaker 1: was the last movie you watched? Oh, Eternals. It's directed 382 00:24:29,457 --> 00:24:32,217 Speaker 1: by Chloe Joe and I was so amazed that she 383 00:24:32,297 --> 00:24:36,457 Speaker 1: made a Marvel movie. You know, it's quite something. I 384 00:24:36,457 --> 00:24:39,337 Speaker 1: have to see that. I love Marvel movies. Okay. Last one. 385 00:24:39,737 --> 00:24:48,337 Speaker 1: Favorite birthday traditions. I buy myself a present. Is it 386 00:24:48,417 --> 00:24:50,257 Speaker 1: like something lavish or is it just like something like 387 00:24:50,297 --> 00:24:52,457 Speaker 1: you're like, I have to get myself a present every year. 388 00:24:52,857 --> 00:24:56,177 Speaker 1: I'll buy something really nice. I will, And I think 389 00:24:56,217 --> 00:24:59,337 Speaker 1: it's because I grew up without having any birthday parties 390 00:24:59,777 --> 00:25:02,057 Speaker 1: and hardly any presents, like just because my parents are 391 00:25:02,057 --> 00:25:04,537 Speaker 1: always working and we need have money. And now that 392 00:25:04,617 --> 00:25:07,457 Speaker 1: I'm older, like I'll just go out and get myself 393 00:25:07,497 --> 00:25:09,497 Speaker 1: what I like. And I think it's maybe it's just 394 00:25:09,657 --> 00:25:12,897 Speaker 1: stave off being disappointed. It's a little bit of that. 395 00:25:13,217 --> 00:25:15,297 Speaker 1: I'm really worried that I'll be disappointed. I'll be like, 396 00:25:15,537 --> 00:25:20,297 Speaker 1: I'm going to take care of this by myself. I'm 397 00:25:20,337 --> 00:25:24,457 Speaker 1: sorry if that sounds unexpectant and probably not terribly optimistic, 398 00:25:24,537 --> 00:25:27,017 Speaker 1: but no, I'm it's so funny. Maybe it's like the 399 00:25:27,057 --> 00:25:29,457 Speaker 1: scorpion you because I do something similar where I give 400 00:25:29,977 --> 00:25:32,497 Speaker 1: my Like our family we do in exchange and we 401 00:25:32,537 --> 00:25:34,937 Speaker 1: basically give a list of three things, or like, these 402 00:25:34,977 --> 00:25:37,697 Speaker 1: are the three things that I like, and to surprise me, 403 00:25:37,897 --> 00:25:41,577 Speaker 1: you pick one of the three things. I'm going to 404 00:25:41,617 --> 00:25:45,777 Speaker 1: control my surprise menu, right right, So I'm still surprised, 405 00:25:45,817 --> 00:25:47,497 Speaker 1: but these are the three things. So we do that 406 00:25:47,537 --> 00:25:49,777 Speaker 1: every year. That's like how we do our holiday gifts. 407 00:25:50,217 --> 00:25:52,017 Speaker 1: We have to do our goodbyes, but I want to 408 00:25:52,177 --> 00:25:55,497 Speaker 1: I don't want to say goodbye. I know, I literally 409 00:25:55,617 --> 00:25:58,617 Speaker 1: I wish I could telepoort into your living room. I 410 00:25:58,737 --> 00:26:01,257 Speaker 1: love you so much. I'm so grateful. I'll make your 411 00:26:01,297 --> 00:26:04,897 Speaker 1: breakfast glory. But also I'm so proud of you glory. 412 00:26:04,977 --> 00:26:06,937 Speaker 1: I'm really proud of you. I think that you're doing 413 00:26:07,057 --> 00:26:10,337 Speaker 1: such a good thing for all people of color. Yeah, 414 00:26:10,377 --> 00:26:13,497 Speaker 1: I don't actually think it's just for our community. Our presence, 415 00:26:13,537 --> 00:26:20,537 Speaker 1: our visibility, our work makes a difference for everybody. Whenever 416 00:26:20,777 --> 00:26:23,817 Speaker 1: men and I speak, I come away learning so much 417 00:26:23,857 --> 00:26:29,897 Speaker 1: about writing and to be honest myself. Men's love, ethic 418 00:26:30,057 --> 00:26:34,097 Speaker 1: and her care for students, her readers, her community are 419 00:26:34,217 --> 00:26:38,857 Speaker 1: so inspiring. When I first read Patchenko, I was awe 420 00:26:38,857 --> 00:26:41,177 Speaker 1: struck by some of the themes she took on, like 421 00:26:41,337 --> 00:26:45,537 Speaker 1: motherhood and finding your home. Her writing has continue to 422 00:26:45,657 --> 00:26:49,777 Speaker 1: encourage writers and readers around the world. But what I 423 00:26:49,897 --> 00:26:53,897 Speaker 1: really aspire to is her honesty. She wants us to 424 00:26:53,937 --> 00:26:58,417 Speaker 1: get angry, fight the injustices in the world, and she 425 00:26:58,497 --> 00:27:02,977 Speaker 1: supports us in our convictions. Her writing is her superpower, 426 00:27:03,497 --> 00:27:10,017 Speaker 1: and we should all aspire to her strength. We'll be 427 00:27:10,137 --> 00:27:12,457 Speaker 1: right back with one of our Well Read Black Girl 428 00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:35,137 Speaker 1: book club members. We love our community. It's what makes 429 00:27:35,217 --> 00:27:38,097 Speaker 1: Well Red Black Girl such a warm, safe space for 430 00:27:38,177 --> 00:27:40,897 Speaker 1: so many readers. Right now, we're going to check in 431 00:27:40,977 --> 00:27:44,377 Speaker 1: with one of our book club members, Patrushka Basin Larson 432 00:27:44,497 --> 00:27:47,817 Speaker 1: in Harlem. She's a woman of many talents. She's a 433 00:27:47,817 --> 00:27:50,617 Speaker 1: member of the Well Read Black Girl community, a professor 434 00:27:50,697 --> 00:27:53,817 Speaker 1: at City University of New York, and a business coach. 435 00:27:54,177 --> 00:27:57,617 Speaker 1: Most importantly, she is the co founder of sugar Hill Creamery, 436 00:27:57,897 --> 00:28:02,097 Speaker 1: one of my favorite ice cream shops. Welcome, Patricia, Hi Glory. 437 00:28:02,137 --> 00:28:04,697 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. 438 00:28:05,537 --> 00:28:08,177 Speaker 1: Tell me about your experience in the Well Read Black 439 00:28:08,217 --> 00:28:10,817 Speaker 1: Girl book Club and how is it different from other 440 00:28:10,857 --> 00:28:12,657 Speaker 1: book clubs you've been a part of in the past. 441 00:28:13,297 --> 00:28:15,857 Speaker 1: As a person who likes to read and who has 442 00:28:16,017 --> 00:28:18,097 Speaker 1: organized her own book clubs as well as been a 443 00:28:18,097 --> 00:28:20,297 Speaker 1: part of others, what has been so amazing about the 444 00:28:20,297 --> 00:28:24,057 Speaker 1: Waldweed Black Girl community has just been the representation, the 445 00:28:24,177 --> 00:28:27,377 Speaker 1: quality of books, and the conversations that happen as a result. 446 00:28:27,497 --> 00:28:31,017 Speaker 1: I am always here for a sister circle with people 447 00:28:31,017 --> 00:28:33,897 Speaker 1: that I know and don't know. And that is exactly 448 00:28:34,177 --> 00:28:37,257 Speaker 1: the vibe that I have always gotten when being in 449 00:28:37,417 --> 00:28:40,857 Speaker 1: amidst other Waldwere Black Girl book club members, when they're 450 00:28:40,857 --> 00:28:43,497 Speaker 1: sitting around the table talking about a text that we've 451 00:28:43,497 --> 00:28:46,617 Speaker 1: all read. I love that. It makes me think of 452 00:28:46,977 --> 00:28:49,777 Speaker 1: Paul Marshall and this idea of sitting around the kitchen 453 00:28:49,817 --> 00:28:52,217 Speaker 1: table together. That is like the space and the energy 454 00:28:52,217 --> 00:28:56,057 Speaker 1: we're always trying to cultivate. We want to be in community, 455 00:28:56,097 --> 00:28:59,257 Speaker 1: but we also want to be in solidarity because you 456 00:28:59,257 --> 00:29:03,377 Speaker 1: are a mother and you are such a wonderful community advocate. 457 00:29:03,777 --> 00:29:06,857 Speaker 1: How do we get more young people, more young women, 458 00:29:06,977 --> 00:29:09,617 Speaker 1: more students, just how do we get them interested in 459 00:29:09,697 --> 00:29:12,777 Speaker 1: reading the way that we teach us by doing, We 460 00:29:12,817 --> 00:29:16,937 Speaker 1: don't teach by saying, And so how do we get 461 00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:22,617 Speaker 1: more young people reading? Well? Well read black girl right 462 00:29:22,817 --> 00:29:27,097 Speaker 1: like having spaces of community around the written word such 463 00:29:27,137 --> 00:29:31,617 Speaker 1: that it's represented. So just continuing to do what you do, 464 00:29:31,657 --> 00:29:35,857 Speaker 1: glory and inspiring others to do the same. Thank you 465 00:29:35,897 --> 00:29:39,257 Speaker 1: for Jushka. For more of our conversation, be sure to 466 00:29:39,377 --> 00:29:50,737 Speaker 1: check out our bookmark series on pushkin Plus. Thank you 467 00:29:50,817 --> 00:29:54,137 Speaker 1: so much for joining me speaking with men gen Lee 468 00:29:54,257 --> 00:29:58,377 Speaker 1: about being vulnerable, about telling our own stories and in 469 00:29:58,417 --> 00:30:02,657 Speaker 1: the process, discovering your own inter stringth it's actually a gift. 470 00:30:03,777 --> 00:30:06,937 Speaker 1: In the episodes ahead, I'll be speaking with Anita Hill, 471 00:30:07,377 --> 00:30:13,177 Speaker 1: Jacqueline Woodson, and Gabrielle Union in honor of the incomparable 472 00:30:13,297 --> 00:30:16,857 Speaker 1: Bell Hooks, whom we lost in twenty twenty one. I 473 00:30:16,897 --> 00:30:21,377 Speaker 1: would leave you with these words from her, when we 474 00:30:21,497 --> 00:30:24,737 Speaker 1: dare to speak in a liberatory voice when we threaten 475 00:30:24,857 --> 00:30:28,017 Speaker 1: even those who may initially claim to want our words. 476 00:30:28,857 --> 00:30:32,137 Speaker 1: In the act of overcoming our fear of speech, of 477 00:30:32,217 --> 00:30:35,737 Speaker 1: being seen as threatening, and the process of learning to 478 00:30:35,857 --> 00:30:40,217 Speaker 1: speak as subjects, we participate in the global struggle to 479 00:30:40,497 --> 00:30:45,577 Speaker 1: end domination when we end our silence. When we speak 480 00:30:45,657 --> 00:30:49,577 Speaker 1: in a liberated voice, our words connect us with anyone 481 00:30:50,017 --> 00:31:05,017 Speaker 1: anywhere who lives in silence. Well Read black Girl is 482 00:31:05,017 --> 00:31:09,057 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. It is written and hosted 483 00:31:09,097 --> 00:31:13,177 Speaker 1: by me Glory Eta and produced by Scher Vincent and 484 00:31:13,297 --> 00:31:19,097 Speaker 1: Brittany Brown. Our associate editor is Keishell Williams, Our engineer 485 00:31:19,337 --> 00:31:23,857 Speaker 1: is Amanda ka Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias. 486 00:31:23,857 --> 00:31:29,137 Speaker 1: Special thanks this week to Vicki Merrick. Our executive producers 487 00:31:29,217 --> 00:31:33,857 Speaker 1: are Mia Lobell and Leet Hall Molad. At Pushkin, thanks 488 00:31:33,857 --> 00:31:39,497 Speaker 1: to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori, Julia Barton, John Schnars, and 489 00:31:39,737 --> 00:31:44,057 Speaker 1: Jacob Wiseberg. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram 490 00:31:44,057 --> 00:31:47,017 Speaker 1: at Well Read black Girl. You can find Pushkin and 491 00:31:47,137 --> 00:31:50,537 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Pushkin Pods, and you can 492 00:31:50,577 --> 00:31:54,337 Speaker 1: sign up for our newsletter at pushkin dot Fm. If 493 00:31:54,377 --> 00:31:57,857 Speaker 1: you love this show and others from Pushkin industry, consider 494 00:31:58,017 --> 00:32:02,257 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 495 00:32:02,377 --> 00:32:06,337 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening for four ninety 496 00:32:06,377 --> 00:32:10,537 Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, 497 00:32:11,097 --> 00:32:13,937 Speaker 1: and if you're already a subscriber, make sure to check 498 00:32:13,977 --> 00:32:17,697 Speaker 1: out my exclusive Bookmark series on Pushkin Plus. Starting on 499 00:32:17,737 --> 00:32:21,897 Speaker 1: February eighteenth. You'll hear extended interviews with book club members, 500 00:32:21,977 --> 00:32:25,617 Speaker 1: bookstore owners, and more. And do you get to hear 501 00:32:25,657 --> 00:32:28,937 Speaker 1: What's on my mind, What's on my radar, and of 502 00:32:28,977 --> 00:32:32,977 Speaker 1: course what's on my reading list each week. To find 503 00:32:33,057 --> 00:32:38,017 Speaker 1: more pushkin podcasts, listen on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, or 504 00:32:38,017 --> 00:32:39,577 Speaker 1: wherever you like to listen