WEBVTT - The Quest for the Perfect Avocado 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:24.156 Pushkin. My family is really into fruit. On my kitchen 0:00:24.196 --> 0:00:28.556 counter right now is a bowl with apples, pears, bananas, 0:00:28.596 --> 0:00:32.756 and a mango, also an avocado technically a fruit. The 0:00:32.836 --> 0:00:35.436 avocado and the pears are hard. They're not right yet, 0:00:35.676 --> 0:00:37.516 and I'm afraid that if I look away for like 0:00:37.836 --> 0:00:41.316 five minutes, they're going to jump straight from hard to rotten. 0:00:41.676 --> 0:00:45.036 The bananas are turning brown but still totally edible. And 0:00:45.116 --> 0:00:48.276 the apples and the mango they are just right. But 0:00:48.476 --> 0:00:52.796 somebody probably better eat that mango today. It's not gonna last. Now. 0:00:53.036 --> 0:00:55.956 There is a reason that I'm talking way too much 0:00:55.996 --> 0:00:59.116 about my fruit bowl, and that is because it is 0:00:59.196 --> 0:01:02.196 really hard to get fruit right. This is not just 0:01:02.236 --> 0:01:04.836 a me problem. It is a massive problem for the 0:01:04.836 --> 0:01:07.396 whole supply chain, all the way from the time the 0:01:07.436 --> 0:01:09.916 fruit gets picked to the time winds up in a 0:01:09.956 --> 0:01:14.596 bowl on my counter. It's a huge, multibillion dollar problem. 0:01:16.636 --> 0:01:19.556 I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is What's Your Problem, the 0:01:19.596 --> 0:01:22.636 show where entrepreneurs and engineers explain how they're going to 0:01:22.716 --> 0:01:26.316 change the world once they solve a few problems. My 0:01:26.436 --> 0:01:29.436 guest today is Katherine Sizza. She is the founder and 0:01:29.516 --> 0:01:33.276 CEO of Strella Biotech, and the problem Katherine is trying 0:01:33.276 --> 0:01:36.436 to solve is this a huge share of the fruit 0:01:36.476 --> 0:01:39.636 grown in America goes bad before it even gets to 0:01:39.676 --> 0:01:42.636 the consumer. She learned this spect four years ago when 0:01:42.636 --> 0:01:45.676 she was a junior at the University of Pennsylvania, and 0:01:45.756 --> 0:01:48.516 by the time she graduated in twenty nineteen, she had 0:01:48.516 --> 0:01:51.836 both invented a device to detect when fruit is ripening 0:01:52.156 --> 0:01:55.956 and started a company to bring that device to market. Today, 0:01:56.076 --> 0:01:59.236 her customers include some of the biggest apple and pair 0:01:59.316 --> 0:02:02.796 packers in America. To start, can you just sort of 0:02:02.836 --> 0:02:06.636 tell me, tell me how you came to start this company. Yeah. 0:02:06.716 --> 0:02:09.716 I read a paper that said, of all food is 0:02:09.716 --> 0:02:12.516 wasted before it's consumed, which I thought was the most 0:02:12.596 --> 0:02:14.796 ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my entire life. 0:02:16.236 --> 0:02:19.196 And then that was quickly followed by guilt because I 0:02:19.276 --> 0:02:21.156 was like, I don't even know where the food in 0:02:21.196 --> 0:02:25.196 my grocery store comes from. So just after reading that paper, 0:02:25.236 --> 0:02:28.716 walk to the grocery store and went up to the 0:02:28.716 --> 0:02:32.516 produce manager and said, Hey, where did those peaches come from? 0:02:33.276 --> 0:02:36.996 And what did they say? She said, I don't really know. 0:02:37.156 --> 0:02:41.876 You should probably talk to the growers and I was like, uh, okay, 0:02:41.916 --> 0:02:44.916 I'll go and do that. Realized peaches don't really grow 0:02:45.156 --> 0:02:49.076 in Pennsylvania, but what does grow in Pennsylvania is apples. 0:02:49.196 --> 0:02:52.076 So went to the apple growers and you're in college 0:02:52.076 --> 0:02:55.076 at this point, yep, I was in college. I guess, 0:02:55.196 --> 0:02:58.076 uh yeah, I started, you know, taking the train to Lancaster, 0:02:58.196 --> 0:03:02.276 Pennsylvania and stuff instead of going to class at some point, 0:03:03.556 --> 0:03:06.116 and do you what do you learn? Well? I learned 0:03:06.196 --> 0:03:08.196 that an apple at a grocery store can be over 0:03:08.276 --> 0:03:10.436 a year old by the time I eat it, like 0:03:10.476 --> 0:03:13.116 a year since it's come off the tree. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:13.116 --> 0:03:16.636 how does that work? Apples are put into these rooms 0:03:16.676 --> 0:03:20.116 that kind of are like outer space where they're deoxygenate 0:03:20.276 --> 0:03:23.276 kept very very cold, and in those types of conditions, 0:03:23.556 --> 0:03:27.396 the apples can actually survive for that long. And so 0:03:27.596 --> 0:03:31.636 why does that become relevant for what you end up doing? Yeah? 0:03:31.636 --> 0:03:34.756 So sometimes these rooms are kind of a black box 0:03:34.796 --> 0:03:38.356 because they're deoxygenated. A person who stores them, which is 0:03:38.396 --> 0:03:42.396 called a packer, they have dozens of these rooms. They're massive, 0:03:42.476 --> 0:03:45.116 they're filled with millions of pieces of fruit, and they're 0:03:45.196 --> 0:03:46.916 kind of playing a little bit of a guessing game 0:03:46.956 --> 0:03:50.236 of behind which door is the most ripe fruit. So 0:03:50.356 --> 0:03:53.156 you'll have a room filled with five million apples. That's 0:03:53.196 --> 0:03:56.636 a huge, huge room. And then sometimes they'll crack open 0:03:56.716 --> 0:03:59.916 that door and all the apples apple sauce. And that's 0:03:59.956 --> 0:04:02.956 like a million dollars for that operation in one really 0:04:02.956 --> 0:04:05.396 bad day, and that happens. That happens just because they 0:04:05.396 --> 0:04:07.436 don't know. They don't know that inside that sealed room 0:04:07.436 --> 0:04:10.076 the apples are going bad. Yeah, so you learn all this, 0:04:10.476 --> 0:04:13.436 what do you do? So? Uh, you know, my backgrounds 0:04:13.436 --> 0:04:16.036 in molecular biology, and I was thinking, well, these are 0:04:16.036 --> 0:04:19.116 biological organisms. Maybe we should kind of treat them as such. 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:21.916 Maybe we should listen to them, see what they're telling us, 0:04:22.156 --> 0:04:24.356 Like what does that actually mean? As you're learning about this, 0:04:24.476 --> 0:04:26.996 like how do you listen to an apple? All the 0:04:27.076 --> 0:04:30.316 fruit on a tree ripens at the same time, there's 0:04:30.316 --> 0:04:33.516 some sort of evolutionary advantage to this happening. And the 0:04:33.556 --> 0:04:36.836 way that produce do this is by communicating with each other. 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:39.676 If you've heard the saying one bad apple spoils the bunch, 0:04:39.916 --> 0:04:42.876 it's totally true, and it's because it's telling everybody else, 0:04:42.916 --> 0:04:45.356 Hey I'm ripening, Hey I'm going bad, and the way 0:04:45.396 --> 0:04:49.596 that they communicate with each other is through gas emissions. Okay, 0:04:50.796 --> 0:04:55.396 ethylene right in particular, this gas ethylene, that's right in particular, 0:04:55.396 --> 0:04:59.156 athlete ethylene is what just like carbon and hydrogen. It's 0:04:59.196 --> 0:05:02.876 just like some boring gas. Yeah, it's uh yeah, I 0:05:02.916 --> 0:05:05.716 guess it's kind of boring, but I don't know it's 0:05:05.756 --> 0:05:09.036 a big deal, sad word. How would you characterize ethylene? 0:05:09.236 --> 0:05:13.996 What's ethylene? Like? Symmetrical? Symmetrical? Very good? Okay, So basically 0:05:14.036 --> 0:05:17.396 ethylene is a signal that a ripe apple puts out, 0:05:17.956 --> 0:05:20.956 and all of the other apples understand that signal to mean, 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:24.596 oh I better get ripe now too. Yeah. And actually 0:05:24.636 --> 0:05:29.156 it's a cross fruit communication as well. So I don't 0:05:29.156 --> 0:05:32.396 know if your grandma ever put you know, a tomato 0:05:32.676 --> 0:05:34.916 and a banana and a paper bag together to ripen 0:05:35.116 --> 0:05:37.876 one of them faster. That's the way to do. Is 0:05:38.236 --> 0:05:40.636 they communicate with each other using athlene and they ripe 0:05:40.636 --> 0:05:43.156 and faster. Can you just list off the fruits that 0:05:43.796 --> 0:05:47.956 communicate using ethylene? Yeah, so some of them are avocados, 0:05:47.996 --> 0:05:56.716 apples obviously, bananas, Kiwi's pears getting more exotic, per simmons, tomatoes, Yeah, 0:05:56.836 --> 0:05:59.276 a lot of tropical fruits. So you learn all this, 0:05:59.396 --> 0:06:04.476 you're reading papers about fruit communication. What do you do? So, 0:06:04.556 --> 0:06:08.036 thinking about fruits as a biological organism, let's listen to them, 0:06:08.076 --> 0:06:11.596 Let's hear what they're saying through measuring ethylene gas, and 0:06:11.596 --> 0:06:13.836 then figure out how ripe they are. I mean, when 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:15.876 you put it that way, it seems kind of obvious, right, 0:06:15.916 --> 0:06:18.036 It seems like weird that some college student who got 0:06:18.076 --> 0:06:20.756 interested in it would do a thing that nobody had 0:06:20.756 --> 0:06:23.276 done before. Had somebody done this before? Why wasn't this 0:06:23.316 --> 0:06:26.236 already happening? If not? Yeah? Absolutely, Ethylene has been known 0:06:26.276 --> 0:06:28.636 about since the seventies actually, and there are a ton 0:06:28.676 --> 0:06:31.636 of awesome universities that have published a lot of studies 0:06:31.676 --> 0:06:36.076 on it. It comes down to the technology. So apples 0:06:36.116 --> 0:06:38.756 and produce aren't a really messy environment, if you will. 0:06:38.876 --> 0:06:42.396 There's a lot of pesticides, treatments, all sorts of things 0:06:42.916 --> 0:06:45.636 in that environment, and so it's very hard for a 0:06:45.676 --> 0:06:49.676 typical sensor to pick up just that tiny signal that 0:06:49.916 --> 0:06:53.116 produce is emitting. So it's hard to measure it. It's 0:06:53.116 --> 0:06:55.556 hard to actually do at some level. Yep. But you 0:06:55.596 --> 0:06:57.276 set out to do it. You were like, well, maybe 0:06:57.276 --> 0:07:00.356 I can figure it out. Yeah, well, I mean coming back, 0:07:00.436 --> 0:07:03.156 I only know molecular bio at the end of the day. 0:07:03.196 --> 0:07:05.516 So it was like, okay, you know what fruits have 0:07:05.596 --> 0:07:08.596 been sensing and signaling athylene for millions of years. Why 0:07:08.636 --> 0:07:12.436 don't we is that mechanism that they use? And so 0:07:13.116 --> 0:07:14.476 at the end of the day, what we did was 0:07:14.596 --> 0:07:18.956 essentially hack a fruit, if you will, and digitize its output, 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:21.756 and then we just convert that into a digital signal 0:07:21.876 --> 0:07:24.836 that we can use to predict the ethylene concentration. So 0:07:24.916 --> 0:07:29.116 the key idea that you had that maybe nobody had 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:32.156 had before was let's use the same protein that fruit 0:07:32.316 --> 0:07:36.556 uses to perceive ethylene in our sensor to pick up ethylene. 0:07:36.676 --> 0:07:40.476 Totally evolutionists smarter than we are. Like, is there a 0:07:40.476 --> 0:07:42.596 moment there if you figuring it out? Was it easy? 0:07:42.796 --> 0:07:45.996 Was it hard? You know? I wish there were kind 0:07:45.996 --> 0:07:47.796 of light bulb moments. I think a lot of the 0:07:47.876 --> 0:07:51.956 times it's the lightbulb moment is taken over by some 0:07:52.076 --> 0:07:54.716 big failure that you have to then co and solve. 0:07:55.276 --> 0:07:57.676 And then also when things work, you're like okay, and 0:07:57.756 --> 0:07:59.716 you don't realize that. You go eat a burrito or 0:07:59.756 --> 0:08:02.596 whatever and don't realize that this was a big moment. Yeah, 0:08:03.876 --> 0:08:06.036 were there any eating a burrito moments that you didn't 0:08:06.036 --> 0:08:08.396 realize that the time, we're big moments, but that looking back, 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:11.316 you're like, oh, that was actually a big moment. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:08:11.316 --> 0:08:14.636 it was. So the first year that we put sensors 0:08:14.636 --> 0:08:18.116 in the real world just to see what happened. We 0:08:18.116 --> 0:08:20.756 were getting really nice data and I had kind of 0:08:20.756 --> 0:08:22.756 downloaded it and put it in Excel and looked at 0:08:22.756 --> 0:08:25.916 it and saw like really nice ethylene curve. I was like, 0:08:26.116 --> 0:08:27.836 that looks great, and then I went to go eat 0:08:27.836 --> 0:08:33.156 a burrito. And then a couple of weeks later, the 0:08:33.276 --> 0:08:36.196 person whose room we had put the censor and said, 0:08:36.556 --> 0:08:39.436 you know what, you saved me six hundred thousand dollars 0:08:39.436 --> 0:08:41.916 this year. I would have totally opened that room way 0:08:41.996 --> 0:08:44.636 late and had apple sauce apple. So it's like like 0:08:44.716 --> 0:08:47.676 six hundred thousand dollars worth of apples would have gone bad, 0:08:47.756 --> 0:08:50.796 would have spoiled. Yeah, that's right. This is around the 0:08:50.796 --> 0:08:54.116 time you started the company. You started the company before 0:08:54.276 --> 0:08:57.556 your senior year of college, and then did you finish 0:08:57.556 --> 0:09:00.796 school as you were building the company. I did finish school, 0:09:01.236 --> 0:09:05.116 namely because the school I went to had an entrepreneurial 0:09:05.156 --> 0:09:08.236 prize that if I was still a senior I could 0:09:08.276 --> 0:09:11.076 apply for and get money. So basically, you stayed in 0:09:11.116 --> 0:09:13.956 school in order to fund your business. That's right. I 0:09:13.956 --> 0:09:15.596 mean I was paying a lot of tuition. Got to 0:09:15.636 --> 0:09:18.476 make them money back somehow, And did it work? Yeah? 0:09:18.476 --> 0:09:22.156 It did. By the time I graduated, we had received 0:09:22.276 --> 0:09:26.076 over half a million dollars of just money through pitch 0:09:26.116 --> 0:09:28.396 competitions and things like that. Well, if you got half 0:09:28.396 --> 0:09:30.316 a million, I mean, I know tuition is expensive, but 0:09:30.356 --> 0:09:31.876 I feel like you must have made a profit on 0:09:31.916 --> 0:09:34.996 college if you got five hundred thousand. Yeah, I think so, 0:09:35.156 --> 0:09:40.316 I hope, So, I hope. So Okay, So this isn't 0:09:40.316 --> 0:09:42.076 that long ago. This is like a few years ago, 0:09:42.356 --> 0:09:45.396 Like where are you today? Tell me about the company today. 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:49.636 So today we are fifteen folks, fifteen the smartest people 0:09:49.636 --> 0:09:53.036 I've ever met. We work with seventy two percent of 0:09:53.076 --> 0:09:55.516 all the Apple and Pair folks. And now we're expanding 0:09:55.556 --> 0:09:58.956 into other parts of the market, whether that's different commodities 0:09:59.036 --> 0:10:02.476 or different parts of the supply chain like retail and imports. 0:10:02.596 --> 0:10:04.716 And how does it work as a business, Like do 0:10:04.796 --> 0:10:07.356 you sell them your devices? Or is it like a 0:10:07.876 --> 0:10:10.916 subscription and like more or less how much do they pay? 0:10:11.836 --> 0:10:14.796 Frankly speaking, our customers are way too busy to worry 0:10:14.796 --> 0:10:17.556 about something like ethylene, and they certainly don't have time 0:10:17.556 --> 0:10:20.796 to interpret a sensor or a reading. So the most 0:10:20.836 --> 0:10:23.036 important thing for us is the decision that we help 0:10:23.116 --> 0:10:25.516 them make, which is which room to open first? So 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:28.676 our business model reflects that. So we just charge a 0:10:28.716 --> 0:10:32.596 subscription service where you get access to Stralla monitoring per 0:10:32.676 --> 0:10:36.116 room per year. Also in this industry, usually instead of 0:10:36.116 --> 0:10:39.156 looking at a dashboard and making a decision, our customers 0:10:39.196 --> 0:10:40.956 call us and say, hey, I'm about to open a 0:10:41.036 --> 0:10:43.276 room full of galas, which one should I do? That 0:10:43.476 --> 0:10:46.476 is old school. They call you like on your cell yeah, 0:10:46.516 --> 0:10:48.836 and like more or less? How big is your business now? 0:10:48.956 --> 0:10:51.996 Just like order of magnitude? How much revenue do you have? 0:10:53.516 --> 0:10:56.316 Can I not say? Yeah? You can not say that? Like, 0:10:56.396 --> 0:10:58.796 what's another way of talking about it? Yeah? So we 0:10:58.916 --> 0:11:02.116 charge five thousand dollars per room per year, and today 0:11:02.156 --> 0:11:06.916 we've monitored over two billion pieces of fruit, more than 0:11:06.996 --> 0:11:12.316 two billion pieces of fruit, mostly apples and papers. After 0:11:12.356 --> 0:11:16.836 the break the next frontier avocados, I'm gonna be honest, 0:11:16.956 --> 0:11:18.836 I got a lot of skin in the avocado game. 0:11:19.116 --> 0:11:29.396 Steaks are very high from me on this one. That's 0:11:29.436 --> 0:11:31.436 the end of the ads. Now we're going back to 0:11:31.436 --> 0:11:34.196 the show. The place where you started is apples and 0:11:34.276 --> 0:11:37.196 pears when they're in this kind of long term storage 0:11:37.196 --> 0:11:39.076 in a sealed room, right, Like, that's the sort of 0:11:39.316 --> 0:11:42.476 problem you have solved so far. What is the next 0:11:42.476 --> 0:11:45.916 problem you're trying to solve? So the next problem is 0:11:45.956 --> 0:11:48.116 the further you go down the chain, the less information 0:11:48.196 --> 0:11:50.916 you have. So by the time you get to our retailer, 0:11:50.996 --> 0:11:53.956 they're not experts in apples or keyways or pairs. And 0:11:54.036 --> 0:11:56.476 that's the most kind of saddest part of it, right, 0:11:56.556 --> 0:12:00.676 All this time, money, resources were spent to get this 0:12:00.796 --> 0:12:02.956 piece of fruit to the shelf and then it goes 0:12:02.996 --> 0:12:05.836 bad there. That's like the worst part. Almost made it. 0:12:05.956 --> 0:12:09.556 We went so far totally, And obviously that's a huge 0:12:09.556 --> 0:12:12.116 business impact too, right, because the retailer is spending a 0:12:12.196 --> 0:12:14.196 huge amount of money getting this stuff there and then 0:12:14.196 --> 0:12:17.236 it's going bad right at the last minute. Yeah, So 0:12:17.876 --> 0:12:20.036 how do you solve that? It's super hard. I mean 0:12:20.076 --> 0:12:21.996 there's a lot of there's a lot of things we're 0:12:21.996 --> 0:12:26.636 still working on like implementation. So for example, we've sat 0:12:26.716 --> 0:12:29.636 with apples for six to eight months sometimes before they 0:12:29.676 --> 0:12:31.796 got to the retailer, and so we can use that 0:12:31.836 --> 0:12:34.556 same data that we collected using that sensor to inform 0:12:34.596 --> 0:12:37.636 the retailer. But the question is, you know, is a 0:12:37.676 --> 0:12:41.116 supplier cool with that? What if you know what's in it? Like, 0:12:41.196 --> 0:12:44.116 how do we integrate into a retailer? Right, We're working 0:12:44.196 --> 0:12:49.276 with huge, massive dinosaur systems that are sometimes not really 0:12:49.316 --> 0:12:53.036 conducive to adding information. So you're saying the problem in 0:12:53.316 --> 0:12:55.556 sort of moving your business to different parts of the 0:12:55.596 --> 0:12:58.636 supply chain is not the technical problem, like not sensing 0:12:58.636 --> 0:13:00.596 ethylene when it's not a sealed room or whatever. It's 0:13:00.596 --> 0:13:03.796 just dealing with like the supplier's relationship with the retailer 0:13:03.836 --> 0:13:06.716 and the retailer software. It's like the non technical piece 0:13:06.756 --> 0:13:09.916 that's actually the problem. Oh, technical pieces problems too, Right. 0:13:09.956 --> 0:13:12.316 You know, we're going from environments that are literally called 0:13:12.436 --> 0:13:15.156 controlled atmosphere. You know, that's the best place to put 0:13:15.156 --> 0:13:18.116 a piece of technology, right because because the sealed room 0:13:18.156 --> 0:13:22.276 is so controlled, like, it's really easy, relatively speaking, to 0:13:22.396 --> 0:13:24.956 perceive a change in the level of ethylene. Right, It's 0:13:24.996 --> 0:13:27.116 like the perfect place to do it, and then you're 0:13:27.116 --> 0:13:28.716 out in the real world and there's weird things happening 0:13:28.716 --> 0:13:30.476 and there's different kinds of fruits and they're opening the 0:13:30.476 --> 0:13:32.876 box and they're closing the box and whatever, and like 0:13:33.436 --> 0:13:36.756 does that mess up your sensing system? Yeah? Absolutely, I 0:13:36.796 --> 0:13:39.556 mean we have to put a lot more math behind it. 0:13:39.596 --> 0:13:41.676 We have to have way bigger data sets that we 0:13:41.756 --> 0:13:44.396 collect to make sure that we're actually making the right decision. 0:13:45.116 --> 0:13:47.356 And is that something you haven't quite cracked yet, the 0:13:47.476 --> 0:13:50.116 sort of beyond the sealed room piece of it. So 0:13:50.156 --> 0:13:53.876 we're working in Kiwi's right now, So we're cracking Kiwis 0:13:53.996 --> 0:13:57.476 and then we're looking right now into bananas and avocados. 0:13:57.676 --> 0:14:01.916 Let's talk about avocados. I feel like avocados are perhaps 0:14:01.996 --> 0:14:05.036 unique in the fruit world in the amount of frustration 0:14:05.156 --> 0:14:08.836 they generate for consumers. So I think if you could 0:14:08.876 --> 0:14:12.356 crack avocados, that would be that would be a huge 0:14:12.396 --> 0:14:15.436 breakthrough for me. I spend a lot on avocados, and 0:14:15.956 --> 0:14:18.796 often they're not good even if I get them under ripe. 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:22.596 Somehow I miss the magic moment when they are ripe, 0:14:22.796 --> 0:14:25.796 Like they go from hard to black on the inside, 0:14:25.796 --> 0:14:29.116 and I never even knew. So tell me where you 0:14:29.156 --> 0:14:33.796 are on avocados, Like, what's happening with your business and avocados. Yeah, 0:14:33.836 --> 0:14:36.276 So what we're doing in avocados is they have a 0:14:36.316 --> 0:14:39.036 little bit of a different supply chain than apples. So 0:14:39.076 --> 0:14:42.396 apples are picked basically ready from the tree. Avocados are 0:14:42.436 --> 0:14:45.716 picked underripe from a tree, and then they're shipped into 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:49.236 the US, for example, and they're artificially ripened actually using 0:14:49.276 --> 0:14:51.876 that ethylene gas. So you put a bunch of underripe 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:54.676 avocados into a room and then you dose them with ethylene. 0:14:54.756 --> 0:14:58.596 So similar to where the apples are stored, avocados are ripened. 0:14:58.876 --> 0:15:01.196 And so what we do is we put our technology 0:15:01.196 --> 0:15:04.196 inside these ripening rooms and we're able to better control 0:15:04.236 --> 0:15:09.076 that ripening process. So the fruit is dosed awakened with ethylene, 0:15:09.156 --> 0:15:11.316 if you will, and then it starts producing athlene on 0:15:11.356 --> 0:15:13.396 its own. And so we capture those signals and we're 0:15:13.396 --> 0:15:16.036 able to tell, hey, this guy is ready to go. 0:15:16.236 --> 0:15:17.996 You know, it's time to send them down the chain. 0:15:18.196 --> 0:15:20.036 But this one isn't quite there yet. Maybe we do 0:15:20.076 --> 0:15:22.356 another treatment. Maybe we expose it to a little bit 0:15:22.356 --> 0:15:25.876 of heat or temperature to get that ripening process going 0:15:26.356 --> 0:15:28.516 and that way create a more consistent product at the 0:15:28.596 --> 0:15:30.076 end of the day. Is that like the dream or 0:15:30.116 --> 0:15:32.556 is that what you can already do? No, that's the dream. 0:15:32.596 --> 0:15:36.316 That's what we're working on right now. Tell me why 0:15:36.316 --> 0:15:40.396 it's hard. So avocados they ripen a lot faster. So 0:15:40.436 --> 0:15:43.516 we're sitting with apples and pairs for a very long 0:15:43.516 --> 0:15:46.636 time months, but avocados ripen in a matter of days. 0:15:46.756 --> 0:15:48.596 And so that's kind of a really big challenge that 0:15:48.636 --> 0:15:51.036 we're working on addressing right now, is having a sensor 0:15:51.036 --> 0:15:54.236 that reacts super quickly to those gas emissions and is 0:15:54.276 --> 0:15:58.956 able to quickly predict out what's going on. And so 0:15:59.036 --> 0:16:03.796 it's basically you have to make predictions with less data, 0:16:03.956 --> 0:16:07.756 which is hard for kind of obvious statistical reasons. Yeah, 0:16:07.796 --> 0:16:10.836 and also, our whole sensor technology is designed around like 0:16:10.836 --> 0:16:13.436 a slow, long process and now we're going into a 0:16:13.516 --> 0:16:15.836 quick opening process. Like what part of it do you 0:16:15.836 --> 0:16:19.876 have to improve to solve avocados. One of the problems 0:16:19.956 --> 0:16:24.796 is sensitivity, so upping our sensitivity and the algorithms as well. 0:16:24.996 --> 0:16:27.876 So in our storage rooms we collect once an hour, 0:16:27.996 --> 0:16:30.876 for example, and we have to absolutely increase the amount 0:16:30.916 --> 0:16:33.716 of data that we're ingesting in order to be able 0:16:33.716 --> 0:16:35.756 to make a prediction in such a short period of time. 0:16:35.876 --> 0:16:38.196 So in control the atmosphere, rooms is kind of sitting 0:16:38.196 --> 0:16:41.276 there and be only measuring things. And that's cool when 0:16:41.316 --> 0:16:43.956 you have months, but when you're dealing with a really 0:16:44.036 --> 0:16:46.956 quick turn avocado, you have to kind of change that 0:16:47.036 --> 0:16:50.116 process going from months to day's basically is it basically 0:16:50.316 --> 0:16:56.276 exactly like you're almost there. I think the targets are 0:16:56.276 --> 0:16:58.476 always moving, right, Like you get one thing done and 0:16:58.516 --> 0:17:00.556 then a customer is like, well, let's make it do 0:17:00.636 --> 0:17:04.196 this other thing. So it's moving goalposts, which I think 0:17:04.236 --> 0:17:06.156 is always the hardest thing because sometimes you feel like 0:17:06.156 --> 0:17:08.036 you've never gotten anywhere. I mean, let me ask you 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:10.276 a different way. Is most most of your business now 0:17:10.316 --> 0:17:13.156 apples and pairs, like most of your revenue. Yep, most 0:17:13.196 --> 0:17:16.236 of our revenues and apples and pairs, But our customer 0:17:16.276 --> 0:17:18.756 segments are different. So we've got the packers who we 0:17:18.796 --> 0:17:23.196 work with in storage rooms, We've got importers who's shipping 0:17:23.236 --> 0:17:26.356 containers we monitor, and then we've got retailers so we 0:17:26.436 --> 0:17:29.476 help them organize their inventory and always send the best 0:17:29.556 --> 0:17:31.996 quality stuff to the shelf. Is there ever going to 0:17:32.076 --> 0:17:36.436 be a day when you'll sell me your service. Basically, 0:17:36.476 --> 0:17:39.316 I'll buy some little mini brick and put it in 0:17:39.396 --> 0:17:42.396 my bowl of avocados and get a text on my 0:17:42.436 --> 0:17:45.716 cell phone when it's time to eat an avocado. That's 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:48.396 a great question. I think the future could look like 0:17:48.476 --> 0:17:51.596 your fridge, for example, telling you that something's going bad 0:17:51.636 --> 0:17:55.036 in there. But you know, the further you go down 0:17:55.316 --> 0:17:58.476 the chain, the cheaper. It's got to be more developed. 0:17:58.476 --> 0:18:00.916 The technology has to be which is why we started 0:18:00.956 --> 0:18:04.436 upstream right, because if you're monitoring millions of pieces of fruit, 0:18:04.956 --> 0:18:06.516 you have the ability to have an R and D 0:18:06.636 --> 0:18:09.796 budget included in your margin if you will right, you 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:11.556 have to be able to make something for like a 0:18:11.676 --> 0:18:14.876 dollar that can perceive four avocados, which is way harder 0:18:14.876 --> 0:18:17.916 than making something for what hundreds of dollars built to 0:18:17.956 --> 0:18:22.436 perceive a million avocados exactly. So you think you'll get there? 0:18:22.756 --> 0:18:27.076 I think so, yeah. I got time. A started earlier 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.956 in a minute the Lightning Round, including Catherine's tips for 0:18:33.996 --> 0:18:46.676 solving hard problems and a discussion of underrated fruit. Okay, 0:18:46.756 --> 0:18:48.916 let's get back to the show. We're gonna close with 0:18:48.956 --> 0:18:51.036 the Lightning Round. How do you feel about doing just 0:18:51.156 --> 0:18:56.516 a bunch of quick fun questions? Sounds good. What's one 0:18:56.556 --> 0:18:58.596 piece of advice you'd give to someone trying to solve 0:18:58.596 --> 0:19:02.556 a hard problem? Take the risk, just do it small steps. 0:19:02.956 --> 0:19:05.356 Just figure out how to take that huge problem and 0:19:05.436 --> 0:19:09.116 break it down into something that you can do today. 0:19:09.116 --> 0:19:12.076 It's really about just every single day. What is a 0:19:12.076 --> 0:19:16.116 difficult problem you're working on today? Then? How do I 0:19:16.156 --> 0:19:22.436 get a retailer to pay me? Okay, good one? How 0:19:22.476 --> 0:19:24.316 do you get a retailer to pay you? You could 0:19:24.396 --> 0:19:25.996 change them on my podcast? Do you want to say 0:19:26.036 --> 0:19:29.876 the name of the retailer that's not paying you? Oh? No, no, no, no, 0:19:29.876 --> 0:19:34.196 no no no no, I can't. I'm not there yet. 0:19:34.236 --> 0:19:36.356 Maybe like when I'm Elon Musk, I can like talk 0:19:36.396 --> 0:19:40.756 shit about like big companies. So you started this company 0:19:40.796 --> 0:19:43.436 when you were still in college, and you've grown it 0:19:43.476 --> 0:19:46.356 and it's a real company now. One is one tip 0:19:46.436 --> 0:19:49.596 you would give to other young women trying to start 0:19:49.676 --> 0:19:51.556 companies or just trying to get people to listen to 0:19:51.556 --> 0:19:56.556 their ideas. Oh that's a good question. So take whatever 0:19:56.556 --> 0:19:58.676 attention you get and use it to pitch your product. 0:19:58.756 --> 0:20:01.196 You know sometimes Eddie, you know, whatever, attention you get 0:20:01.236 --> 0:20:03.076 if you're sticking out in a room. Use it to 0:20:03.076 --> 0:20:07.076 your advantage and get people to buy into your technology 0:20:07.236 --> 0:20:11.076 and you're offering and understand how you're impacting their business 0:20:11.076 --> 0:20:15.396 in a good way. What is the most underrated fruit? Mangoes? 0:20:15.676 --> 0:20:18.876 Mangoes are the best? Agree? Do they talk to each 0:20:18.916 --> 0:20:20.916 other with ethylene? They do talk to each other with 0:20:20.956 --> 0:20:23.956 ethylene and mangoes kind of like the hot girl on 0:20:23.996 --> 0:20:26.996 the block right now, So expect more mangoes in the future. 0:20:27.196 --> 0:20:30.756 Tell me more. It's the new it fruit. Yes, So 0:20:30.796 --> 0:20:34.956 they're trying to actually ripen them similarly to avocados, and 0:20:34.996 --> 0:20:38.556 so they're looking at it as a really big, you know, 0:20:38.676 --> 0:20:40.876 commodity that's going to grow in the future. We love 0:20:40.956 --> 0:20:46.316 mangoes in my house. What's the most overrated fruit? Banana? 0:20:46.396 --> 0:20:50.236 There are way better varieties of bananas that we could 0:20:50.236 --> 0:20:53.676 be eating. The one that we are used to is 0:20:53.956 --> 0:20:56.356 definitely not the best one out there. Why aren't we 0:20:56.396 --> 0:20:59.316 eating better bananas? Then that's a really good question. Why 0:20:59.356 --> 0:21:02.796 are we still eating red delicious apples? We're just going 0:21:02.836 --> 0:21:05.396 to ask you about red delicious apples? Why are we 0:21:05.396 --> 0:21:07.716 still eating red delicious apples? They are so gross. When 0:21:07.716 --> 0:21:09.556 I was a kid, that was like all you could get, 0:21:09.556 --> 0:21:11.796 and now we have this whole wonderful world of apples. Well, 0:21:11.836 --> 0:21:14.956 like what happened, Red Delicious apples are a supply chain product. 0:21:15.036 --> 0:21:17.916 Those things can sit on your shelf for decades and 0:21:17.996 --> 0:21:19.796 they can do the same thing in the supply chain. 0:21:19.876 --> 0:21:23.236 So Red Delicious is a good example of we have 0:21:23.436 --> 0:21:25.956 a lot of problems in our supply chain, and so 0:21:25.996 --> 0:21:28.076 we're going to solve that with a really hardy variety 0:21:28.156 --> 0:21:30.596 that might not necessarily be the best to eat, but 0:21:30.676 --> 0:21:36.756 something we can transport pie or crumble pie. What about 0:21:36.756 --> 0:21:40.916 you if I'm cooking crumble because like, I don't want 0:21:40.956 --> 0:21:45.076 to deal with making a crust if I'm eating piem 0:21:45.636 --> 0:21:47.996 that makes sense. It's hard to make a crust. I'm 0:21:47.996 --> 0:21:50.676 intimidated by making a crust. It's so hard to make 0:21:50.716 --> 0:21:53.836