1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 2: I'm Olivia Rudgaard, a reporter for Bloomberg Green. I'm currently 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 2: working on a piece about climate anxiety, and I have 4 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: request for zero listeners. Climate change can cause stress, both 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: of people directly affected by it and for those concerned 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: about its effects on others and their future. If you're 7 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 2: okay to share your experience of this, we would love 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 2: to hear from you. Tell us what makes you worry, 9 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: how your worries affect your life, and what helps you 10 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: feel better. Take our short survey. There's a link in 11 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: the show notes. 12 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: Thank you, Welcome to Zero. I'm Aaron Rutcoff, executive editor 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Green. Some of you listening to this podcast are, 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: not doubt, among the seventy thousand people traveling to do 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: Buy next week for the UN's Annual Climate Summit COP 16 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: twenty eight. It's a huge event and a lot of 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: the focus and the lead up has been on one character, 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: Sultan all Jobber. He's COP twenty eighth President. He's charged 19 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: with bringing everyone together and settling the Climate Summit's ambitions. 20 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: He is also the head of the United Arabor Emirates 21 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: State Oil Company ADNAC. This was to say the least 22 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: a controversial placement. Earlier this year, Zero's regular host akshat 23 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: Rothi wrote a profile of Sultan al Jobber. I came 24 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: on the podcast to talk to Acshot about it and 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: ask him basically what someone like al Jobber's leadership would 26 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: mean for an institution like COP. If you'd like to 27 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: listen to that episode, we've linked to it in the 28 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: show notes. Today we're giving an update about everything that's 29 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: happened over the past six months before Oxshot and the 30 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: rest of the Green team goes to COP next week. Oxshot, 31 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. 32 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 3: Hey, good to be here. 33 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: All right, let's be honest, Doc Shot. Last time we 34 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: talked about Sultan al Jobber, you just finish chased them 35 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: around the world. We published your profile. That was probably 36 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: the moment of peak Sultan panic in the climate world. 37 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: You were having lots of conversations after the profile came 38 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: out with diplomats and the types of climate people who 39 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: turn up at COP every year, and many of those 40 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: people were saying, you know, maybe quietly, maybe not on 41 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: the record exactly, that they thought COP twenty eight being 42 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: run by an oil ceo inside one of the world's 43 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: biggest oil Nations was going to be somewhere between disappointment 44 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: and a disaster. But you know, we've got here now, 45 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: like six months later, on the eve of COP twenty eight, 46 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like we're really facing down the 47 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: worst case scenario that some of those people were worried about. 48 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: To me, it feels more or less like we're seeing 49 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: the normal kind of disputes and battle lines that happened 50 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: basically before every single cop. 51 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: What do you think you're right for the months after 52 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: the profile came out, that panic had turned into frustration, 53 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 3: sort of bubbling frustration that little progress is being made 54 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 3: on clearing up what the agenda at COPP will be, 55 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: because it's a very important thing to start nailing that 56 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: down early. There are just so many issues and so 57 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: many people who care about those issues that to be 58 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 3: able to come to a consensus, you have to start 59 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 3: to create what are called in COP language landing zones, 60 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 3: where you get many countries agreeing on certain things and 61 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 3: then hash out the details so that everybody can on 62 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 3: some of those things. And that just wasn't happening. And 63 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: when I was in the UAE, I got told a 64 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 3: couple of times, look over here, things happen at the 65 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 3: last minute, and it does feel like things have happened 66 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: in the last minute. There are now some real clear 67 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: landing zones emerging a week before COP twenty eight that 68 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 3: it feels like there will be an agreement. Now, we 69 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 3: know by nature of COPS that agreement is never going 70 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: to be enough, but comparing ourselves to February when I 71 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: was doing the profile, there's certainly been plenty of progress. 72 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: One of the signs of the larger potential for agreement 73 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: now is the fact that we're seeing some initial two 74 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: way consensus happening between the US and China, and that's 75 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: usually like the key piece that has to precede anything 76 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that happens in the bigger COP environment. Can you kind 77 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: of walk us through what we're seeing from those two 78 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: countries right now? 79 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, we have two real good examples of this. The 80 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 3: Paris Agreement happened because there was a US and China 81 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 3: agreement going into Paris said we are going to try 82 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 3: and do something on climate, and so it boards well 83 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: for an agreement going into COP twenty eight that US 84 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: and China have agreed on having language around tripling renewable 85 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: energy into the final agreement. 86 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: So let's look at that goal, triple renewables by twenty thirty. 87 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: You know that sounds good, It sounds it sounds really good. 88 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: I think there's something like sixty countries that have already 89 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: signaled there on board with this. You got to get 90 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: up to like almost two hundred, but sixty is a 91 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: really good start. But if I'm being really honest, this 92 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: goal also sounds like something that maybe would come to 93 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: pass almost no matter what. This year twenty twenty three, 94 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: even with inflation and high interest rates. In a couple 95 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: of wars, there's been just an absolutely mind boggling amount 96 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: of solar built around the world, and especially in China. 97 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: So is tripling renewables too easy? Should should the goal 98 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: at copy something harder, like producing fossil fuels? 99 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: So just a little bit of context. The reason why 100 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 3: we are talking about tripling renewable energy is because this 101 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: cop is where a technical thing happen, which is called 102 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: the Global stock take, is the first taking of where 103 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: things stand after the Paris Agreement was signed, and we 104 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 3: knew going into the technical process that clearly, given that 105 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: emissions are going to hit another new record this year, 106 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 3: that we are not on the right path and so 107 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: it was incumbent upon the Presidency to come up with 108 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: the response, a political response from all countries to show 109 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: that they are willing to try and fill that gap. 110 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: And so tripling renewable energy is important because it allows 111 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 3: for supply of clean energy to increase. The other thing 112 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: that is likely going to be agreed upon is doubling 113 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: energy efficiency. Another great thing, because you can use less 114 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: energy to do the same thing. But you're absolutely right, 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: just because you're increasing clean energy supply does not mean 116 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 3: it will lead to reduction in emissions. And that's why 117 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 3: phasing out fossil fuels is going to be a big 118 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: talking point going into COP twenty Even though the Presidency 119 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 3: hasn't yet committed to having that on the agenda, we 120 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 3: know that the European Union is pushing for that language. 121 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: There are some tweaks being made to it, as happens 122 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: with these UN negotiations. The most recent one I heard 123 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 3: was let's call it an orderly phase down off unabated 124 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 3: fossil fuels. And maybe that is one place where many 125 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 3: many countries will agree. But it's a fight that we 126 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: are going to track as we're going to COP twenty eight. 127 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: So our colleague Jendaluis who covers the US Climate Envoy 128 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: John Kerry, and like you, runs around comple like crazy 129 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: for a couple weeks. She's told us that she thinks 130 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: the odds are good for finding that phrase that you 131 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: just said in orderly phase down of unabated fossil fuels, 132 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: that she thinks there's a pretty solid odds we're going 133 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: to see that in the final document that has to 134 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: be produced back insensus. At the very end that final 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: communicate is likely where doctor Sultan, as the president, has 136 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: the most amount of leverage. So first I wanted you 137 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: to give us a breakdown of the jargon that you 138 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: just used. We got phase down as opposed to phase out, 139 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: and then there's this word unabated that seems like it's 140 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: a code for something. 141 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets jogony so quickly because it's what countries 142 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 3: need to agree on. They don't really care if the 143 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: man on the street understands that language, but it's absolutely 144 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 3: crucial to understand that language. We've met with businesses who 145 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: then take a cop document and read through line by 146 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: line to see if any of what is being said 147 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: by these countries could become policy, could affect their business. 148 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: So unabated is code for carbon capture technologies. This is 149 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: something we've covered on the podcast previously. We've had two 150 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 3: guests looking at carbon capture technologies both from smokestacks and 151 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: from the air, and we know these technologies are important 152 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: and will be crucial, but how much do we deploy 153 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 3: them is a question up for grabs. We know that 154 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 3: Sultan al Jabber as the president of COP twenty eight, 155 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: but the CEO of an oil company wants oil and 156 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: gas companies to show up at COP with solutions and 157 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 3: carbon capture is their favorite solution, and so GENS reporting 158 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: shows that there may be agreement around unabated because carbon 159 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: capture technologies are something that many of the players coming 160 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: into COP will be pushing for. And then orderly is 161 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 3: also code for slow, to make sure that if there 162 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 3: are panicky situations like a spike in prices or a 163 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: supply crunch or disaster like COVID, that would be latitude 164 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: given for making sure that fossil fuels still are in 165 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 3: the mix for a little bit longer than perhaps the 166 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: science says. 167 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: And that's kind of actually what we've seen over the 168 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: last year or so following Russia's invasion of Ukraine and 169 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: the European effort to get off of Russian gas. We've 170 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: seen that need for an orderly transition to be a 171 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: justification for building new gas infrastructure in the US and 172 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: elsewhere around the world. 173 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 3: Right we have, and that means there's going to be 174 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: additional lock in of emissions because these assets one s 175 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 3: built will have to be paid for through their use 176 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: in the future. But we have also seen a faster 177 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: transition in other places. So even as Europe was struggling 178 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: for fossil fuels and building new infrastructure such as liquified 179 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 3: natural gas terminals that would import natural gas rather than 180 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: getting it piped from Russia, countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh 181 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 3: suffered from not having access to gas, and so they 182 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: are now rethinking whether they should rely on gas as 183 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: much when they have access to cheap solar power. 184 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: So I want to also ask you to kind of 185 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: sketch out what these big endgame moments are like. You know, 186 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: I think at the beginning of cop there's hundreds of 187 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: leaders from around the world usually present, and that'll be 188 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: the case this year. Then there's like ten or twelve 189 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: days of kind of the diplomats and the activists and 190 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: everybody else kind of buckling down to business and it's 191 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,719 Speaker 1: a little less flashy. Then there's a moment at the 192 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: very end where we get the high drama and everyone 193 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: kind of tunes back in to see whether or not 194 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: there's going to be a final We've seen in the 195 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: past two years that we've been covering these things together, 196 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: there's been tiers on stage at the very end. There 197 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: have been angry walkouts or almost walkouts. You've spent this 198 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: year trying to understand sultanal job or how he works, 199 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: how he wields power. So how do you think this 200 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: year's endgame is going to play out with him sort 201 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: of at the podium bringing this all to a close. 202 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's quite intense because you've been working for this 203 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: two week period of intense work. You're putting in ten 204 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: twelve fourteen hour days. By the end, people are running 205 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: on very little sleep, and so you do get a 206 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 3: lot of emotions coming out during the final negotiations. And 207 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 3: the tears you mentioned were at COP twenty six where 208 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 3: there was a last minute change that India and China 209 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: and the US requested around the word phase out being 210 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: turned into phase down and island nations were furious, but 211 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 3: they let it go and Alok Sharma, who is the 212 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 3: president in the UK, car up broke down. And if 213 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 3: you're speaking plainly, there isn't very much difference between face 214 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: down and phase out. But if it goes in a 215 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 3: document that's agreed by two hundred countries, there is a difference. 216 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: One says you will eventually not use fossil fuels. The 217 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 3: other says you'll just keep using less and less fossil fuels. 218 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: So it was a fight. May I don't know if 219 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: it was worth having, but there you go. We face 220 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 3: those situations as we go into the negotiations. Now, Sultan 221 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 3: al Jabber as President has a pedigree of running big organizations. 222 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: He built a clean energy company called Mastar and is 223 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 3: now chairman of it. He now runs at Not one 224 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 3: of the world's largest oil companies, and he has been 225 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: empowered by the President of UE to be a minister 226 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: in the government and commit to duties as a minister. 227 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 3: But the role he is sitting in now is a 228 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 3: very unique role. You have to bring two hundred countries 229 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 3: to a consensus. It requires lots of delicate conversations, lots 230 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 3: of give and take, and these are things that, at 231 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: least from our reporting, are not things that Sultan al 232 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 3: Jabber has done in the past. He's been a climate diplomat, 233 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: but he hasn't been the leader who runs and who 234 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: decides which is the place that there will be most 235 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: agreement on. So that's probably the final test for Sultan 236 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 3: al Jabber. Now that he has an agenda that seems 237 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 3: to move the ball a little bit, will he actually 238 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 3: be able to get all those countries to agree. 239 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: So let's talk about money, because that's certainly one of 240 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: the levers that are very wealthy country like the UAE 241 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: has to pull here. It's always been one of the 242 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: core central frustrations and disputes between rich and poor countries 243 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: at cop where is the climate money going to come from? 244 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: Just now, before we sat down to talk, there was 245 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: a headline that ran that for the first time, after 246 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: a decade of failing to reach one hundred billion dollars, 247 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: the rich countries in the world, the Europeans, the United States, 248 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: have finally met the goal of honeying up one hundred 249 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: billion dollars in a year to help finance the climate 250 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: needs of poorer countries. So I'm wondering with that as 251 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: a sort of really positive sign coming into a week 252 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: before COP. Do you think there's a deal to be 253 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: had between rich countries and the global south on climate finance? 254 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: What role can Sultan ol Jaber and the UAE play 255 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: and kind of bringing together leap forward in one of 256 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: the places where the world's always lag behind. 257 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 3: So climate finance becomes a very complex issue very quickly. 258 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 3: And earlier this year we had avinash Parsod, who's an 259 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: economist in Barbados, come up on the podcast and really 260 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 3: explain it in detail, and we'll link to that episode 261 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: in the show notes. But the simplest way he put 262 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: it was to think about it in three buckets. The 263 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: biggest bucket is money that would go to word projects 264 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 3: that would reduce emissions. Second biggest bucket is money that 265 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 3: would go to deal with the impacts so adapt to 266 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: the warming. And then the third biggest bucket would be 267 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 3: to compensate for the damages that would be caused by 268 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: climate impacts going into COP. The one hundred billion dollar 269 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: figure is for the first two buckets that was agreed 270 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 3: on in two thousand and nine and was supposed to 271 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: be met by twenty twenty. That slowly developed countries would 272 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 3: start giving more and more money every year, and buy 273 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 3: twenty twenty they will give one hundred billion dollars every 274 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: year until twenty twenty five, and then there will be 275 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: more money coming. But that's for another COP. Finally, it 276 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: seems according to our reporting that twenty twenty two is 277 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 3: the year they finally met it. But for context, the 278 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: total energy transition money that we need is four and 279 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: a half trillion dollars, so it's kind of small money. 280 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: We're already now looking at the third bucket, the loss 281 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: and damage bucket, the bucket that caught some agreement at 282 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 3: COP twenty seven that there would be a fund created, 283 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 3: and we know now that at COP twenty eight there 284 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: is an outline for what that fund would look like, 285 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: and those details will be hashed out in the negotiations. 286 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: This is where as you say, UAE as a rich country, 287 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: could make a real difference. 288 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: And damage the third bucket. I mean, this is something 289 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: that gets called, you know, with some dispute behind it, 290 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: climate reparations. Right, let's just explain how if this lost 291 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: and damage fund existed, how it would work, who would 292 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: get to drawn and where the money might come from. 293 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, those are very live conversations and that's what's going 294 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: to be negotiated on the outline we've got so far 295 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: is that in the interim, the World Bank is likely 296 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 3: to host the fund. That fund will have to have 297 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 3: contributions and very specifically voluntary contributions from all kinds of people, 298 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: not just countries. Maybe philanthropies will put money, maybe corporations 299 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: will put money in it. We don't know what the sum, 300 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 3: what the total sum of that fund would be. We 301 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: also don't yet have rules on how money will be 302 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: drawn out from that fund or who will be eligible 303 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: to draw that money out. 304 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: We'll be back right after the break. If one of 305 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: the big ongoing themes of UN climate summits is you 306 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: know where is the money? You know, one of the 307 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: answers is the UAE is extremely wealthy financial center. What 308 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: can we expect to see the UA do to kind 309 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: of bridge one of these constant gaps? 310 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: So a good faith contribution coming to the Lost and 311 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 3: Damage Fund from developed countries and the UA would be 312 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: very very welcome by developing countries, and we're talking about 313 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 3: it in billions of dollars. We know that the European 314 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: Union has already said it will put in quotes substantial 315 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 3: amount of money towards the fund. We also heard from 316 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 3: John Kerry, the Special Climate on y for the US, 317 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 3: who said the US will put several million dollars and 318 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 3: that coused a ton of outrage among green groups. The UA, 319 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: we understand, has a desire to contribute billions of dollars, 320 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: but I think it's going to try and bring as 321 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: many people to the table to contribute money towards this 322 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 3: fund so that the fund can be substantial, and that 323 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: would go a long way in making sure developing countries 324 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 3: sign off on some of the major commitments at COP. 325 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: So once this starts for the next two weeks, what 326 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: is sultanel Jober doing during cop And I know we 327 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: are talking about it like it's just one man, but 328 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: there's obviously a large staff behind him. But what does 329 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: exerting the role of president or leader look like in 330 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: a diplomatic circus like this? 331 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 3: It is a lot of listening to different groups on 332 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: what are the sticking points, what are the big barriers 333 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 3: for agreement, and then coming to a place where the 334 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: president is able to figure out what could be compromises 335 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 3: that one country group could make with another country. Group, 336 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: so there could be agreement between them, and he left 337 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 3: to do this again and again and again for the 338 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: many things that are there on the agenda. So it's 339 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: an exhausting process. Already. He's been doing that all through 340 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 3: the year, the listening tour that he talks about, where 341 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: he's gone around the world trying to understand what is 342 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: it that countries want. But now in these two concentrated weeks, 343 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: all that work is going to either pay off or backfire. 344 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: Why did the United airb Memorates want to play host here? 345 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: What's in it for a country bringing this really difficult 346 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: challenge to their doorstep. 347 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: This would be the biggest diplomatic exercise that the UE 348 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 3: has committed to in history. We expect many, many were 349 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: leaders showing up in one country. And yes, it's a 350 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 3: big oil economy, it's rich, but it's never hosted anything 351 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 3: of this heft before. So the UE is very clear 352 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 3: it wants to show itself as the place in geopolitics 353 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 3: where it can speak to the US and to Russia, 354 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 3: it can speak to China and to the EU that 355 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 3: it can be a champion of small island countries and 356 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 3: get more from developed countries. It's a big ask and 357 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 3: if Sultan al Jabber can pull that off, that's going 358 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 3: to bring plenty of kudos to the UAE, something that 359 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 3: they would like to have. But if it goes south, 360 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 3: it's also going to risk making true all the criticisms 361 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 3: that have been laid on it as an oil economy 362 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: trying to host a climate conference. 363 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: So there are two hot wars underway at the moment 364 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: right Russia's still invading Ukraine and Israel is in the 365 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: middle of an invasion of Gaza that followed the attack 366 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: by Hamas inside of Israel. It's a really bad vibe 367 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: for a global climate summit that's all about cooperation. So 368 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: give me your sense. Does that sort of hostile backdrop 369 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: actually affect the proceedings when you're in Dubai? Does it 370 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: shape the outcome in anyway? 371 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 3: Well, we can look at what happened when it was 372 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: just Russia invading Ukraine, which had happened early in twenty 373 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 3: twenty two, and going into COP twenty seven, we could 374 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: already see lots of talk about energy cit security, about 375 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 3: quote unquote orderly transition, and perhaps that did lead to 376 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 3: not as ambitious an outcome from COP twenty seven as 377 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: you would have expected. The Israel Hamas conflict has less 378 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 3: impact on the energy world has not yet had a 379 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 3: huge impact on prices of fossil fuels, so there isn't 380 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: a clear outcome yet. But again it's a live situation. 381 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: Things could go south very quickly. That said, though, there 382 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 3: are some tailwinds that we should recognize to the fact 383 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 3: that US and China are talking. That Joe Biden and 384 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 3: Chi Jinping met at a conference in the US is 385 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 3: a tailwind for an agreement at COP. So geopolitics has 386 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 3: always complicated. Bringing two hundred countries to one consensus is 387 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 3: never easy. None of what's happening in the world right 388 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 3: now makes it any easier. 389 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: There's one geopolitical wrinkle that I want to ask you about. 390 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: This is we're about to go into COP twenty eight. 391 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: We don't know where COP twenty nine is going to be, 392 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: and that's because of geopolitics. Can you explain why we 393 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: don't know where we would be a year from now? 394 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: So cops rotate between different regions of the world. COP 395 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 3: twenty nine was supposed to happen in Eastern Europe, and 396 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 3: Russia is blocking any of its allied countries in Eastern 397 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 3: Europe from hosting COP. So we are in that place 398 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 3: where even if countries do want to host COP, Russia 399 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: is going to veto their decision, and so by UNF 400 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 3: Triple C rules which are still quite hard to understand, 401 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 3: but the best we could make sense of it is 402 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: that if no country hosts COP, then the UA continues 403 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 3: to hold the presidency and the default location for COP 404 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: becomes born in Germany, which is the headquarters of the 405 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 3: UNF Triple C, the climate body that runs the COP meeting. 406 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: All right, So you know, looking back at your time 407 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: at Bloombergreen going to COP, I like to think about 408 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: your leisure activities. You know you deserve a break too. 409 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: I don't remember what you did for fun when you 410 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: were in Scotland at COP twenty six, but last year 411 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: at COP twenty seven in Egypt on the Red Sea, 412 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: I definitely remember you haggling over the price of a 413 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: snorkel and then spending your off hours checking out this 414 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: amazing coral reef. So what does a climate nerd like 415 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: you look forward to doing for fun in the glam 416 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: oil city of Dubai. 417 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 3: Oh, it is such a good question. I have been 418 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 3: to the UE before, but never to the Bay, and 419 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 3: I've been told it's a crazy metropolis that one has 420 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 3: to see because nothing like it exists anywhere else. So 421 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 3: I might actually go out and be a tourist and 422 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: see the Bai, maybe go up the burges Al Khalifa, 423 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,239 Speaker 3: the tallest building there is. 424 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: It's a good answer. I want to also bring this 425 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: to a close by talking about your book Climate Capitalism. 426 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: It's great, highly recommend it. It definitely has this climate 427 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: positive point of view about what is capable based on 428 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: human ingenuity and cooperation and effort in terms of bending 429 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: the needle in the climate fight. It's kind of like 430 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: a counterpoint to how everything seems to be getting hotter 431 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: and worse all the time. So now like kind of 432 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: channel the climate positive vibe that you take in the 433 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: book towards COP twenty eight and give me like four 434 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: or five things that would be signs things went surprisingly 435 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: well at this COP. 436 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,719 Speaker 3: That's an interesting point. Look, I mean, the book was 437 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 3: meant to be a book about solutions, and so it's 438 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: kind of positive and optimistic from the get go. We 439 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 3: as journalists write about all kinds of things. We write 440 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 3: about all the problems, we do investigations, calling out power, 441 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 3: but I think we should also give solutions some space 442 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: to me. One solution that I think we underplay of COP, 443 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 3: which is kind of seen as meaningless, is what happens 444 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 3: outside the negotiating rooms. They're all these side events that happen. 445 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 3: They're going to be seventy thousand people coming. The core 446 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 3: work is done by a few thousand people. All the 447 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 3: others are either coming for a trade show for networking, 448 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 3: but also many many announcements we've heard over the years. 449 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 3: Ten countries coming together to sign an agreement on deforestation, 450 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 3: thirty countries coming together signing an agreement on methane, and 451 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 3: there is very little follow up, and so people rightly 452 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 3: feel like these are meaningless things that happen on the 453 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 3: side of COP. But recently I came across one example 454 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: where actually these side things can be quite meaningful. So, 455 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: in COP twenty six, the Global Methane Pledge was signed. 456 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 3: It said a bunch of countries voluntarily will come together 457 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: and reduce methane emissions by thirty percent by twenty thirty. 458 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 3: It was a small group of countries. That number has grown, 459 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 3: and what we have seen is the oil and gas 460 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: industry specifically took that to heart and has actually been 461 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: investing in both methane emissions tracking and methane emissions reduction. 462 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: It is something that we at Bloomergreen have been following 463 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 3: and finally we are seeing numbers around investments that are 464 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 3: actually leading to some deployment of solutions. So you know, 465 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 3: these side shows can sometimes produce meaningful impact, but there 466 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 3: will be a lot of dud ones too, all. 467 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: Right, So that's one place to look kind of outside 468 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: of the main event for signs of progress. But what 469 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: would be the boxes that have to get checked to 470 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: say this was like a very successful cop. 471 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 3: So in the core negotiations, we already know that tripling 472 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 3: renewable energy, doubling energy efficiency are kind of in there 473 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 3: will get agreed on. If we get any type of 474 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 3: language on fossil fuels with all those caveats attached to it, 475 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 3: that will also be seen as a sign of real progress. 476 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 3: If we get an agreement on how the Loss and 477 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 3: Damage Fund is going to operate, who's going to put 478 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 3: money in it, and who will get money from it, 479 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 3: that would be a real success point. If we get 480 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 3: money commitment already in the tens of billions of dollars 481 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 3: into that fund. That would be huge success, and if 482 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 3: we get an agreement on who's hosting COP twenty nine, 483 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: that would be progress. 484 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: We should just remind people that if they don't already 485 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: get the Green Daily newsletter, we put out two editions 486 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: a day throughout all COP and we have this really 487 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: fun checklist that goes over sort of the wins and 488 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: losses and other weird events that happen. We use emojis 489 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: and it's actually fun. So sign up for the newsletter 490 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: to find out whether we meet any of the goals 491 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: acshot just outlined. 492 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 3: We also dropped the payball on Bloombergreen during those two weeks, 493 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 3: and so you can go and read not just all 494 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 3: our COP coverage, but all the archive that's been built 495 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: over the past four years that Bloomberg Green has been around. 496 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Well, Akshat, I'm really excited to watch you work at 497 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: Dubai and I hope you managed to get some sleep 498 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: at some point during the two weeks while you're out there. 499 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 3: Well, thank you. Sleep is always a good wish to 500 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 3: give to a Copcore. 501 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Zero. If you enjoyed this episode, 502 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review the show 503 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts or Spotify. You can email us at 504 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Zero's producer is Oscar 505 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: Boyd and the senior producer is Christine driscoll. Our theme 506 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: music is composed by Wonderly Special Thanks this week to 507 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: Stacey Wong and Kira Bindram for their help on this episode. 508 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: We've put a link to the article The Oil Shakes 509 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: Climate Fixer in the show notes. Zero will be back 510 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: on Thursday.