WEBVTT - Mike Campbell 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.280 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left SEPs Podcast. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:17.240 My guest today his guitarist extraordinaire, the one and only 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.840 Mike Campbell. Mike, good to have you on the program. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.240 Thank you, good morning. And uh is it true you 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.280 only started playing guitar at age sixteen? That is true. Yeah, 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:33.120 I couldn't afford one until then. Well, you know, we're 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.240 about a similar age. And I remember the Folks scene 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.800 and then the Beatles, everybody picking up guitars. Were you 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.239 anxious to play then? Was it really money? What inspired 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.839 you to finally pick up a guitar? Well, it was 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.959 the sixties, you know, and the Beatles, of course, Uh 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.840 had a huge impact on me. And that would have 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.520 been fourteen when they hit the Ed Sullivan Show, and 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.560 I got pretty excited then. Up until then, I was 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.080 just hearing my dad's records, which were Johnny Cash and 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.520 Elvis records, and I like the guitar. But when I saw, 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.360 you know, the Beatles, it was like, I gotta have 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.040 one of those. You know. It took a couple of 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.440 years to save up fifteen bucks to get a little 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.440 cheap guitar, but that's when the fire was lit. So 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.000 what was your first guitar? It was a Harmony acoustic 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:22.280 that my mom got me at a pawn shop and 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.360 we were pretty hard up for cash, but she had 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.800 fifteen dollars and it was unplayable, you know, the strings 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.000 were so far off the fret board. But I didn't 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.880 know any better. I thought that's just the way it was. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.000 And I just remember thinking, boy, these guys are strong, 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.520 you know. And so I learned to play on that 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.960 thing until my fingers was bleed, actually, and uh, until 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:43.679 I saw a friend with the Gibson one day, and 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:48.120 then I realized, I'm my god, it's easy. Yeah, But 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.080 that was my personal harmony acoustic, f whole guitar. So 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.240 how long after that you get your second guitar? And 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.840 what was that? Well, my second guitar, my dad was 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.080 in the Air Force. He was over in Okinama, and 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:02.200 I kept begging him for an electric guitar, and he 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:06.720 got together sixty bucks and sent me an electric Goya tone. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.680 I think it was called a Japanese thing. It looks 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.160 kind of like a strat a little bit, and I 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.040 learned to play on that, and I was playing on 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:18.079 that when I met Tom years A few years later okay, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.720 So how did you teach yourself to play guitar? Did 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.560 you take lessons or what do you do? No, I 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:26.560 kind of I got a book that showed you how 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.480 to make the chords, mel Bay Chord Book, like oh yeah, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.399 I said, And uh, I would listen to the records 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.680 and just you know, look at the chords and taught 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:39.560 myself by ear. You know, back then all you had 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:41.960 was records. But if it was an album, you could 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.240 slow it down to sixteen. I p s to really 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.680 hear what the guitar was doing at half speed. And 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:49.760 I did that a little bit to figure out stuff. 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:52.880 But I was just obsessed, you know. I was possessed 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.040 to figure this thing out. And uh I did not 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.160 have any lessons. Although early in my life, when I 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.280 was in elementary school, I did take accordion lessons. My 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.400 parents forced me, so I excuse me. I had a 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.040 little bit of music basic theory, you know, in my 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.400 back pocket, you know, but the guitar was all self taught. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.720 How long did you take the accordion lessons for? I 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.760 don't know, maybe until Little League season started about a 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.120 couple of months maybe, I don't know. Okay, so were 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.480 you good athlete. No, I loved it. I mean I 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.280 was a Sandlot sand Lot star. You know, I would 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.160 get out of school. I couldn't make the school teams. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.200 I wasn't good enough. But I just love to get 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.160 together my buddies and play in the in the park, 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.960 at the in the neighborhood there and Uh, but once 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.320 I started playing guitar, that all just disappeared. I didn't 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:46.400 care about anything else. So did you find a team 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:51.640 easily or did you have to work really hard? Both? Uh, 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.160 A lot of it came easy. I had an instinct 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.320 for it, but I worked really hard. Like I said, 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.200 you know, I'm I'm not making a joke. I would 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:00.760 play that thing and my fingers should start bleeding and 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:02.920 I had to stop, you know, until it's scapped over 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:04.800 and I'm done for the day. You know, there's blood, 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.080 you know. But I just wanted to learn so bad. 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:10.640 I think if you have a desire, you know, you'll 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.920 find a way to figure out what you want to do. 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:16.440 And at what point did you start to play with 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:21.440 other people? Well? Uh, a year or so into it, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.920 I met a buddy who played acoustic guitar, and he 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:27.240 turned me on to Bob Dylan, and uh, he taught 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.440 me one of my first songs on the acoustic guitar, 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.920 which was off of Bob Dylan record. It was called 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.880 Baby let Me Follow You Down. He showed me that, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.440 and then Uh, I had a couple of friends here 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.000 and there. We'd sit in the garage and play, but 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:46.120 nothing really uh crystallized until I got to Gainsville, Florida 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.960 and got in my own little band. Okay, so we're 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:55.760 exactly did you grow up Jacksonville, Orlando and Jacksonville and 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.200 your father was in the Air Force? Were your parents 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.680 still together? They were to other until I was fifteen, 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:05.560 and it was a pretty uh unhappy divorce and the 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:10.640 money was really tight. Uh, but that's when we moved 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.120 to Jacksonville. Cous my all, my my mom's folks lived there. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:16.640 So after the divorce, she wanted to be near her family, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.240 so we moved up there and I went to school 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.400 there and uh eventually ended up back in Gainesville, uh 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:28.359 for college. So what was it like being fifteen years 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.520 old and having your parents have an acrimonious divorce? You know, 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.200 I think it scarred me pretty good, but it made 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:36.760 me tough, you know. I mean, it was you don't 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.839 want to get deep into the psychology of it, but 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.400 it hurt bad, you know. You know, that was my 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.560 whole life. Like I kept thinking, like, can't you just 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.760 stick together for me? But you know, and I'm I'm 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.120 older now, I understand how things happen, but it it 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.320 did a number on me. And uh, I've worked on 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:58.840 that over my life to resolve those issues, and uh, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.080 I think it kind of gave me an intention to 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.880 never do that to my children because it was pretty 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.560 pretty rough. You know, I kind of felt worthless. I 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:09.440 guess most kids that are from come from a divorce 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.479 get that feeling of like God, you know, and back then, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.760 you know, being from a divorce family was kind of 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.200 a shameful thing to be kind of. You know, you 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.560 weren't anything you were proud of. Nowadays people probably don't 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.000 think about it that much, but it was kind of 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.080 a heavy traumatic thing back then. You're absolutely right. I 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:33.800 remember it was really rare in the mid and late sixties. So, uh, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.680 you say you worked to resolve the trauma. How did 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:41.320 you do that? Well? For a while, I went to 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.320 this therapist, this lady who was really great at helping 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.279 me work through some all kinds of stuff I was 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.160 going through, uh, you know, being in a rock and 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.640 roll band, in my marriage, and we eventually got into 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:55.760 my childhood and she helped me see it from a 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.240 different perspective and kind of mend those fences in my 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.120 head and make you a little more at peace with it. Uh. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.160 And of course my wife, you know, she's I've been 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:06.960 with my wife for forty six years, and she was 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:10.680 very supportive of helping me through whatever, you know, issues 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.840 I might be going through, and vice versa. So how 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.520 old were you when you got married? I was twenty six, 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.800 twenty and then our first child was born and when 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:28.400 I was twenty six And was that something you were 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:33.280 inspired to do or was your wife pregnant or you know, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.320 you're a rock and roll musician. A lot of people 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.720 love to live the free and easy lifestyle. Well that's 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.360 a good question. Um. At that point in my life, 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.840 I was not looking to get married per se. But 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:50.080 I wasn't uh repelled by the idea like I had 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.480 been a few years earlier. I mean back in Florida, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.680 I sold a lot of roots, you know, a young musician, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.720 and by the time I got out and started making 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.600 you know, at the time I got married, she was 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:01.240 making more money than I was. You know, we were 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.679 on a deal with Shelter Records that wasn't really bringing 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.760 in much dough and she was a grocery checker, so 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:09.840 she was actually paying the bills. And um, you know, 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.200 we just kind of connected. Unfortunately, we connected before I 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.960 was a you know, celebrity or star or whatever. It 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.400 was just Mike and we have that that special bond 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:22.400 I don't think i'd ever find again, because you know, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.880 there's a different perspective of who and what I am now. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.760 So that was that was really good for us and 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.480 for me. Um, I don't know if I answered your 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.800 question or not. Well, what inspired you actually did tie 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.599 the knot? Oh? Well, yeah, she she said, you know, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.440 I guess what I think we're gonna. I think we're 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.160 gonna be having a baby. And what was interesting is 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.079 that if I'd heard that two years prior, I probably 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:47.200 would have freaked out, Oh my god, nothing, no way, 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.040 you know. But I kind of sat with it and 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.959 I thought, you know what, I think I'm I think 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:52.640 I'm kind of okay with this at this point in 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.000 my life. My head is kind of open to that 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.800 idea and one thing just flowed into another. Of course, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.080 the Spigs the question was not long thereafter Petty and 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.160 the Heartbreakers start to get traction did and there and 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.199 all of a sudden, you have that fame that you 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.760 did not have previously. And what about all the temptations 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.080 of the road. Well, you know, that was really hard 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.280 on my wife. God bless her. H here's a new 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.480 baby shows up. And then I'm off on tour and 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.240 the band starts to happen and I become, you know, successful, 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.320 more than we had planned on that quickly, and it 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.000 was very fortunate. And uh, you know, we would try 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.040 to stay and sync with each other while I was 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.760 on the road, she was home with a baby, and 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.320 it was a struggle. You know, it was a struggle. 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:47.079 But I love her and I would always put her 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.880 in my family first, you know. And the other stuff, 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.679 I think a lot of the other party and young 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.520 guys stuff. I had already kind of gotten a lot 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.199 of it out of my system. Uh, And so it 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.080 wasn't that hard for me to to be a good guy. 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.560 So what's the key to having a forty six year 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:11.120 long marriage. Don't get divorced? Okay, I mean, I has 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.360 someone who's been divorced. I know exactly what you're talking about, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:19.280 but that usually implies there's some heavy moments where the 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.480 road could go another way. Would you would get divorced? 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.640 Of course? Of course. Well I borrowed that line from 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.000 Olivia Harris and somebody asked her once like, how do 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.360 you how do you keep your marriage together? She goes, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.160 don't don't get divorced, but as a as a you know, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.120 a short little comment. But underneath that comment, you are 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:37.280 going to hit bumps in the road. It's inevitable, and 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.560 you can get divorced. You could split and go down 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:41.439 different paths, or you can sit in there and really 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:43.880 look at well, what do I what's really important here? 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.720 You know? Is this something we could work out together 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.000 or is it a deal breaker? You know? And of 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:53.360 course in my lifestyle and being separated uh on tour 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.600 and her at home with the babies and coming home 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:57.560 and happen to get to know each other again and 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.920 stuff like that, it was hard and it breaks most 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.520 urges up, you know, And I can see why, and 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.080 I'm just lucky that mine held together. And I think 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.280 the reason is because, first of all, she's very understanding 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:14.880 and very patient and was willing to accept her part 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.000 of the dynamic, you know, and I was willing to 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.160 meet her on at the table and go, well, you know, like, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:22.960 this is what happened. How do you really feel about it? 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:24.719 You know, do you want to carry on together? Or 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.360 is this? Are we done? And every time we hit 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.319 a snag, it was always like, I think we can 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.520 get over this because the love is stronger than this. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.679 So is she the product of divorce or her parents 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.679 stayed together? No, her parents stayed together. U um they 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:45.960 live into their nineties. Uh so No, she Uh, she's 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.760 a California girl, went to Fairfax High School, you know, 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:54.120 and I found my California girl. And no, she didn't 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.720 have that trauma. She had other you know, everybody has 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.640 her own personal issues with their parents. She had her 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:02.080 own issues, but basically they were relatively stable. You know, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.120 they stayed together and they they put up with each other. 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.720 You know, they well we're always you know, I'll walk 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:12.640 in the park together. Either. But yeah, well, to keep 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.480 a marriage together, how much of it do you think 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.800 was her strength or your strength or both of you 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:22.080 were very strong wanting to keep it going. Both, but 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:26.360 I think especially her because I really, you know, when 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.560 I think back on it being home, if it had 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:30.040 been the other way around, if I'd have been home 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:31.920 taking care of her baby and she was out party 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.760 and being a rock star and having all this stuff happened, 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:37.960 and going to different cities and countries and all the 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:43.000 you know experiences that might be going she might be 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.480 having without me, it probably would have been really hard 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:47.200 on me. You know. I give her a lot of 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:52.360 credit for for being strong and uh standing by me, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.800 you know, and um, and I give myself some credit 0:12:55.840 --> 0:13:02.160 to for not getting you know, distracted by the the 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.280 the trappings of of rock star life. You know, it's 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.200 it's really pretty shallow, you know, if you're gonna go 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.880 down that road and be a partier and stuff, eventually, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.680 you know, it's it's not very fulfilling. And how many 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.559 kids do you have? I have three, and I also 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.480 now have three grandchildren that are about almost the same age, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:26.080 two twins, and my son has a son. And they're 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.560 the joy of our life. You know, they're beautiful. And 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.840 what are they up to? Well, they're almost five, so 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.280 they're not up to nothing much except you know, drawing 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:39.760 and playing and getting into trouble. But they're they're parents, 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.040 your three kids. Oh, they're well, my my daughter had 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.719 the twins, her husband's her husband's has a great job 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.800 as a contractor. My other daughter is living alone, um, 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.840 and she has a dog in her own place. And 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.680 my son is married and has a child, and he's 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.600 a dog trainer. He has a dog training business. So 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:03.280 they're all maintaining. And they say, basically pretty happy. So 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.959 you're from Florida and you met your wife before your 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.880 success in California. How did you meet her? That's a 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:12.520 great story. I don't know if you want to hear it. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:17.000 Tell her. I love telling the story. We met on Halloween, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.760 and uh, the story goes. Um. I was living in 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.760 a house. The band Mudcrutch was struggling with a record 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.960 deal and everything was falling apart. I was living in 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.160 a house with out in Canoga Park with a couple 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:30.520 of the other guys and they were going to go 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.160 to a party. I didn't want to go, you know, 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.680 And I was living in a bedroom with a mattress 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.560 on the Florida. I didn't have much work for me, 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.920 but I did have a little car. But they I'll 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.200 come on, there'll be some girls there, you know. So 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.600 they drugged me along. Of course we got there. There 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:50.360 was one girl and eight guys typical you know, all 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.600 not taking you know, uh kayludes or whatever. The day 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.280 party was. I'm sitting there and uh, Marcy, my wife, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.400 shows up with her dog. And she was best friends 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.880 with the girl, Marcia, who was there, and so she 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:07.520 I saw her walk in. I was sitting in the 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.360 other room and and her dog came over to me 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.920 and connected with me. You know, I was just sitting 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.240 like this dog was just like we had a bond 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.600 going on. I was talking to the dog and petting 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.000 the dog. She walked by and said, is this your dog? 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.200 And then we started talking and had a great conversation 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.320 and kind of hit it off. And at the end 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.560 of the night, Uh, I split. I didn't ask her 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:30.840 for her number, she hadn't asked me for mine. I split, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.200 and the uh the next day, I thought, God, you know, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:35.840 that girl was really nice and I have no way 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.240 to get ahold of her. And I wonder if I 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.560 can find that apartment you know it was it was. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.480 I had only been there in the middle of the night. 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.000 So I got in my car drove over to where 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.000 I thought it was it was on the second story, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.960 I remembered, and somehow I found the apartment and then 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.960 knocked on the door and her friend Marcia opened the door. 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.680 She was on the phone, and I was about to say, 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.320 do you know how to get ahold of? And she 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.720 handed me the phone and Marcy was on the phone 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.960 to her asking her about me. You know, the guy 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:06.840 never even asked me for my number. I I don't 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.160 know who he is or how to go hold of him. 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.640 So it's kind of like a serendipitous moment, you know. 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.920 And and so we and we we now. You know, 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:16.640 dogs are a major part of our lives. She had 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.160 a dog rescue business for a while, and we have 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.560 lots of dogs. So we were kind of brought together 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:25.560 by by the dog and and the rest is history. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.720 And Okay, growing up, how many kids in the family? 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:35.120 And my family, I had a brother and his sister. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.240 And where are you in the hierarchy? I'm the oldest, 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.920 So how many years between all of you? Five five 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:47.800 years apart, five years apart to the youngest. Yeah, well no, uh, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.080 I was born, my sister was born five years later, 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.080 my son was born five years later. I mean my 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:56.400 brother was born five years later, so we're spread over time, right, 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.720 So you're growing up we kind of kid, are you 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.359 good student, bad student, loaner? Popular? I was introverted. I 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.040 was a pretty good student. I only had a couple 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:12.760 of friends, and uh, you know, I had friends, Like 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.680 I said, he used to play sand lot ball when 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.439 I was younger. But once I got the guitar, it 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.760 was me in the guitar, you know, and in the bedroom, 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.520 and that was pretty much my social life. And I 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.800 was really shy and really but I noticed as I 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:25.960 played the guitar and got a little bit good that 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.720 people were drawn to me, you know, like girls would 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.399 come up and talk to me, or guys would come up, 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.919 and they were And my dad told me once, if 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.360 you learned how to play an instrument, you'll always have friends. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.240 And I didn't know what he meant, but he was right. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.520 And so the guitar kind of brought people to me 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.160 and brought gave me confidence to be a little more talkative. 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.000 And that's kind of what I was, like, kind of quiet, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.560 and uh you know, I kept to myself a lot. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.879 So you go to Gainesville for college. How long do 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.840 you stay in college? Did you graduate? I did not graduate. 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.600 I went about a year and a half and then uh, 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.480 I jumped into Tom's band and let my tuition run 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:07.960 out and got a guitar and never look back. So unfortunately, 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.600 it was just a couple of nights before Tom passed. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.280 But he was on stage in the Hollywood Bowl telling 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.159 a long story of how you actually met with a 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.000 lot of humor. Yeah, how did you? How did you 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.600 actually meet? That is true, That whole story is true. 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.000 You know. He he embellished it with the humor, but 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.440 it is exactly true. I was in the back room 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:30.880 of this house I was renting with the Mudcrutch drummer, 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.600 and I had seen Tom play with this band. Mudcrutch 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.920 was kind of like a Burrito Brothers country rock group 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:39.960 at the college. I'd seen them and I thought, oh, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.680 they're pretty good. It wasn't I was more into blues 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.480 and rock at the time. But I saw on the 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.320 bulletin board I saw they were looking for a drummer, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.840 and so I told my friend. My roommate said, you know, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.080 this band's looking for a drummer. You should call them. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.080 The true story. They came out to the house to 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.080 audition the drummer. They said, oh, our guitar player just quit. 0:18:58.119 --> 0:18:59.680 Do you know somebody? I was in the back room 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.760 with my little Japanese going a guitar and I came 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.840 out and they're just like, oh God, not this guy. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.040 He can't be cool. I had short hair and cut 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.640 off in this shitty little Japanese guitar and you could 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.119 just see the looks on their faces like, oh, how 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:15.520 do we get out of away from this guy? And 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.639 they said, Okay, where do we play? And I said, well, 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.960 I know Johnny be Good? So we played Johnny be Good. 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.399 That was it. Their their faces changed completely. That's just 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.040 like Tom tells a story. It was like as soon 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.399 as they heard me play, like, you're gonna be in 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.359 my band forever. And I was yeah, that's how he 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.280 told the story. So just to go back prior to 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.280 meeting Tom, to what degree were you playing with other 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.560 people and did you play out for money? I didn't 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.280 play for much money, but I did have a little group, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.640 a three piece group, and we would play for free 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.080 at the college and it was mostly blues and improvisation 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:54.840 type playing and jamming, and so I was getting really 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.560 in love with being the feeling of being in a 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:01.600 band and playing in front of people. UM, and then 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.199 Tom and and Mudcrutch. We we started getting little gigs 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.959 like at the Topless Bar, the Women's club or at 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:10.760 the college. You know, we pay you know, a hundred 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.480 and fifty bucks or whatever for the whole band. And Um, 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.520 then we got a gig at Dubs topless Bar, which 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.040 happened to be just up the street from my farmhouse. 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.080 I could actually walk there. So we we played there 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.000 for a couple of months, like you know, four sets 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:28.600 of night and we got like a hundred bucks apiece 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.600 a week, which was like a fortune for us. And 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.200 that's when I really assumedly really became a band and 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.560 learned how to play live, you know, hours and hours 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:41.720 at this topless bar, and uh, pitch grew from there. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.640 So you say you were more into blues and rock 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.440 this is the late sixties, what kind of acts? What 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.280 were you into? Well, I was really enthralled. Of course, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.879 I loved the Beatles and Stones as much as anybody. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.280 But I wasn't into the California country rock scene so 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.399 much as Tom was. But I learned to appreciate that. 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.000 But I was listening to like Paul Butterfield and Mike Bloomfield, records, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:15.320 and uh, at the time, I like Jerry Garcia quite 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.680 a bit. Um, but I like the English guys a lot, 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:22.200 you know, George Harrison, Keith Richards and the Kinks, Animals. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.000 There were so many great bands with good guitar players, 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:27.720 and I was in thrall with all that stuff. But 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.199 when I when I was playing my first band I 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.280 got together, I wasn't really singing much at all, and 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.760 we didn't know any songs, so we would just start start, 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.919 you know, of twelve bar and then it would just 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:41.679 go on for five, five, six minutes, you know, So 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.280 we were just kind of jamming mostly. But Tom it 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.200 was cool about his band as they were doing songs 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.200 with harmonies, like three minutes songs with the chorus and verses, 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:51.879 and I like that. I was drawn to that, like, 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.000 guess that's what I'd really like to do. And I 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.639 hadn't really explored that part of being in a band 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:01.879 until then. So let's just stop for a second. In 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.520 your opinion, and it's obviously an opinion, who's the best 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:12.600 rock guitarist? Boy, that's a loaded question. Uh wow, Well, 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:18.600 the best, the most original and out of this world 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:22.399 would be Jimmy Hendrix. Uh, does that make him the best? 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.639 I don't know. I really like Mike Bloomfield's playing. I 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.359 like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck. I mean, you know, 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:30.280 it's hard to pick one. There were so many greats 0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:33.280 back then, but Jimmy Hendrix kind of it was head 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.560 and shoulders, unique above everybody else. He was taken to 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.479 guitar places, but he was still good. You know, he 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:42.479 wasn't just crazy, but he was able to really go 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.720 into places to get sounds and and feelings out of 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.080 the guitar that weren't your standard guitar approach, you know. 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:54.160 And he really was pretty untouchable. So let's go back 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.200 to the band. When you join Mud Crutch, is Tom 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:02.200 already writing original material? Yeah, that's what kind of bonded 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.080 us is. Uh. After we had, you know, played a 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:08.040 little bit, we said and started talking and uh, I 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.199 think he had showed us one song that he was writing, 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:11.840 and he, I said, I'm righting, I'm trying to write 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.600 some songs too. He said really, and he said yeah. 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:16.600 I said, yeah, I got this. Damn. I didn't have 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.040 any many words, but it was I said, just kind 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:21.639 of like a Roger mcgwen type song, and he goes, oh, 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:25.360 I like Roger mcgwin, And so we immediately picked up 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.760 that each other was trying to to compose our own music. 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.919 And he was a little bit more advanced than I 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.960 was at that time. He'd already been writing songs, completed songs. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.320 I was still putting like little pieces together. But we 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:42.040 had that bond right away, you know, writing our own stuff. 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.199 And you drop out of college. You ever have a 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:51.480 street gig? No? I mean in high school I worked 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:56.040 at a burger joint, you know, um greasy spoon, mopping 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.960 the floor. Mostly at the university, I got a temporary 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:03.800 job like shelving books, old dusty books that were in 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.640 the room. It was really a boring job. But no, 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:12.800 I never really had a proper job to speak of. No, 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.640 that's great. So, okay, you're playing the topless bar. What's 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:19.360 the next step after that? Well, the next step out 0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:23.919 of that is to get away from the perverts and 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.320 try to play a little more nicer places. Like at 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.760 the university. You could get gigs playing in the park 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:31.560 and you know, a bunch of hippies would show up 0:24:31.600 --> 0:24:33.479 with frisbees and you could play. They put up a 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.200 stage or you could play the women's clubs. You could 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.760 play the women's club for a couple of hundred bucks. Uh, 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.840 you know, some bars here and there, and sometimes we 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:48.600 drive to Tampa or Orlando and play you know, like 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.600 like a youth center or something, just stuff like that, 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:54.960 anything to get away from the CD bars. And then 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:58.280 we began to realize that, you know, because also the 0:24:58.359 --> 0:24:59.840 thing with those gigs you can play your own so 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:01.800 songs and the bars. She kind of had to play 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.080 the top forty stuff. But in our on the other gigs, 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.080 we could explore our own writing, you know, And so 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.880 we liked that approach, and we just realized pretty soon 0:25:10.960 --> 0:25:12.520 that you know, this is the direction to go, and 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.399 we're gonna have to you know, make a tape and 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:16.960 get to try to get a record deal and move 0:25:17.000 --> 0:25:20.359 somewhere else where the records are happening. And over time 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:22.120 we ended up in l A. You know, so how 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.760 long between the time you meet Tom and you end 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.639 up in l A, uh, three two or three years? 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.000 And at that point, how often is the band rehearsing? 0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:35.159 How often is the band playing? Oh, we used to 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:36.960 play all the time in rehearsal, all the time in 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:40.080 my bedroom or whatever. In Gainesville. We you know, we 0:25:40.200 --> 0:25:42.240 just play and as soon as we got a gig, 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.520 we tote the stuff out and towed it back. We 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.800 didn't have roadies, uh, but you know, we were playing 0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:50.639 as much as we could, you know, and if we 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:52.560 didn't have a gig, we just get together and rehearse 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:54.760 and and try to learn new songs or just play 0:25:54.840 --> 0:26:02.800 for fun. And at what point do you replace the goya? Well, um, 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.560 that's an interesting story. I wanted and we had gone up. 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:08.720 We got a gig in Birmingham, Alabama for some reason, 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.000 opening for Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels, if you 0:26:11.000 --> 0:26:14.000 can believe that. So we drive up there and we 0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:17.679 went to a pawn shop and uh, we said, do 0:26:17.720 --> 0:26:20.240 you have any guitars and she said, well, there's one, 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:22.919 but you wouldn't want it. So immediately the light bulbs 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:26.440 go on. Yeah, you know, she brings out this Gibson Firebird, 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:30.119 red Firebird, and it was a hundred and twenty bucks. 0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:32.320 You know, now it would be worth you know, forty grand. 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:34.879 But I got that and that was my guitar for 0:26:35.000 --> 0:26:37.480 quite a while. And then later on I had seen 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:40.160 a stratocaster at the music store which was two hundred 0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:44.240 bucks sixty four strat if you could believe that, And Uh, 0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:45.879 I didn't have the money. But a friend of a 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:50.600 friend had just had an insurance UH automobile settlement and 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.800 she had some cash. She said, well, here, I'll I'll 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:54.800 loan you the money you can buy the Strato caster. 0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:57.960 So then I had to Gibson into the Strat And 0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:00.679 those are my two guitars for quite a wow. And 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.679 what about a namp? I had a Fender. I got 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:08.600 together enough to get a Fender twin. And back then 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.399 you can get these things called electro voice speakers and 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:14.520 put them in and they had a lifetime guarantee. If 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:15.840 you blew it up, you can just take it to 0:27:15.840 --> 0:27:17.440 the store and they'd put a new one in for you. 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:20.560 So that's the one I had. How often did you 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:24.879 blow it up? Oh, every couple of months, I know, 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:26.679 three or four months, and one of them would go 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.240 on the fritz and just take it in and haven't 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:32.120 pop a new one in. Pretty cool, Okay. So how 0:27:32.119 --> 0:27:38.159 many guitars going today? It's sick too many, but I 0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.000 love them all. I think I's just sold about a 0:27:40.040 --> 0:27:43.560 hundred of them for an auction. And uh, I've now 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:47.479 got my guitars and a nice display where I can 0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:48.760 see them all and I can get to them. I've 0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:50.280 got a lot of my stuff is on this just 0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:53.480 carousel that I built in my rehearsal room. It goes 0:27:53.600 --> 0:27:56.480 up electronically and it's got hooks and there's all my 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.480 nicest guitars up there. I push a button, it goes, 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.720 it comes down, and I could pick what I want. 0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:03.280 But I've got a lot. You know, I've been collecting 0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:05.000 forever and I love them, and I used every one 0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:06.280 of them, you know, every one of them has been 0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.240 on the road or and on a record. I've kind 0:28:09.240 --> 0:28:11.080 of stopped buying now because I kind of got one 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:15.160 of everything I wanted. And uh, which is funny because 0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.000 back in the day, when I couldn't afford one, I'd 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.199 see the who and I'd get so piste off. You know, 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:22.200 don't don't break that. Send it to me. You know, 0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:24.840 it's a good, good dog. You're just gonna break the 0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:27.480 neck off of it. Used to used to kill me, 0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:31.680 but you know now I I treasure my instruments and 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:35.439 they they're good investments. So it worked out. How did 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:37.480 you decide to part with a hundred, and how hard 0:28:37.600 --> 0:28:40.640 was that? It wasn't hard at all. I had too many, 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:44.040 and I couldn't remember keep track of them all, and 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:46.120 they were all in cases and stored away, and so 0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:48.400 I finally just got them all out, and I just 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:50.800 picked the ones that I don't didn't use all the time, 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:53.520 and auctioned them ount and got quite a bit of 0:28:53.520 --> 0:28:56.120 money for them all. But I still have plenty left, 0:28:56.160 --> 0:28:59.280 you know, I don't over a hundred. But they're all 0:28:59.280 --> 0:29:02.400 a vantage, choice, choice instruments. So if you could only 0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:06.080 save two, what would they be. Well, one would be 0:29:06.080 --> 0:29:10.720 my broadcaster Fender Broadcaster, which I used on the first album, 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:12.960 And I guess my other one would be the fifty 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:14.880 nine less Paul of which I only got about ten 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:18.840 years ago and I used in the last several Heartbreakers records. 0:29:18.840 --> 0:29:24.600 Those two are kind of irreplaceable. Okay, broadcaster has one pickup. 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:29.240 Telecaster has too. No broadcaster has two pickups. The esquare 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:31.080 has one that Oh, you're right, that's what I'm saying, 0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:33.080 I'm screwing up. Of course I'm right. I'm a guitar 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:35.040 play right, Well, I thought, I you know, you know, 0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:40.640 my brain didn't go back enough time to absolutely, So 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:44.320 tell me about moving to California. How does that all 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:48.040 go down? Well, it said, we made a movie about it. 0:29:48.120 --> 0:29:50.000 I runed down a dream. It went down that. We 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.840 made a demo tape and sent it around, got mostly rejected, 0:29:52.840 --> 0:29:55.360 and got a little bit of interest from this company 0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:58.760 called Shelter Records, which was Leon Russell and Denny Cordo's label. 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:02.160 So we piled everything and pulled all our money and 0:30:02.360 --> 0:30:05.280 got been Much's parents station wagon and we rented a 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.680 truck and piled everything in and drove out like the 0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:12.880 Beverly Hill Police, you know, and wound up in Hollywood 0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:15.440 like you know, rednecks from space. We were totally out 0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:18.600 of out of sink with everything, but we had to learn, 0:30:18.720 --> 0:30:23.080 you know. We just buckled down and you know, stumbled 0:30:23.080 --> 0:30:25.760 around the studio for a while the crutch dissolved, and 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:28.800 then slowly we met up and there the guys just 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:31.440 formed the Heartbreakers, made our first record, and then things 0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:34.040 started to get better a little bit slower though. Didn't 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.920 you go back to Florida? Well there was a first, 0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.640 the first foray or say whatever the word is, out 0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.880 to California. Tom went went out with the Roady I 0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:48.200 stayed home. I gave him my fifty bucks, was all 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:50.600 I had, and they went out and knocked on doors, 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:52.680 and then they came back. And then we started getting 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:56.280 the rejection letters, and then we got one that sounded 0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.480 interesting from Denny Cordell, and uh, then we all got 0:30:59.520 --> 0:31:02.240 together and headed out, hoping that he would save our lives, 0:31:02.280 --> 0:31:06.240 you know, and he did. So what was the magic 0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:10.880 of Danny Cordell. Denny Cordell? First of all, he believed 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:14.200 in us, and he saw something that we didn't even see, 0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:16.600 that we had a chemistry and that we were unique, 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:20.040 and that we had us, you know, some songwriting that 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.680 was better than most people. He picked up on the 0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:27.840 songwriting and on Tom's charisma and on the chemistry of 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.960 the band, you know, and he believed in us, and 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:34.000 he gave us confidence. And he was really good at 0:31:34.440 --> 0:31:36.959 because we were so especially in the studio, we were 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:38.520 so green. We didn't know what we were doing. Had 0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:40.600 to get a good sound or how to you know, 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.720 play it right, or this and that, and he was 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:46.080 good was saying, well, you know that's out of these 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:49.040 three songs. Those two were crap, but this one's good. 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:51.440 Write some more songs like this, one in that vein, 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:53.800 you know, it kind of directing us like a gurro 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:57.520 down the path towards our pure self. And that was 0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:02.760 his his main contribution is giving us confidence and believing 0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:06.240 in us and the right advice that we needed. So, 0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:11.600 how long after you start figuring out the studio the 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:14.000 zero in and you're making a record or you essentially 0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:17.760 making a record the whole time, Well, you're always trying 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:19.560 to make a record, you know. You go and each 0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:21.400 time you're gonna record something, you think, well, maybe this 0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:23.720 will be on a record, But of course most of 0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:25.280 the time it was just you know, you have to 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.320 throw it out and start over. But you just, yeah, 0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:30.600 we're always thinking of this is going to be a record, 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:35.480 you know, until it's not okay. And so how long 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:39.000 after you start playing around as the record done. Well, 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.440 once we got the lineup of the Heartbreakers and Tom 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:45.600 brought in at the same time, that happened. He brought 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:47.600 in these great songs. It all just kind of happened 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:50.680 at the same time. It didn't take us that much, 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:52.920 you know, a couple of months to record the first record, 0:32:53.640 --> 0:32:56.000 which we recorded at the office at Shelter Records. They 0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:57.840 had put a makeshift studio in there, and we called 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:01.080 it the Brown Room, and and uh we got in 0:33:01.120 --> 0:33:03.160 there and just you know, one one or good time 0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:06.160 until we had you know, ten or twelve songs, and 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:08.920 he brought in like American Girl Breakdown. All these great 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:10.960 songs just came out of the air. He came in 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:12.760 with those, and that we had the band, so it 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:17.360 all started to gel. So what are you living on 0:33:17.680 --> 0:33:20.040 at this point in time? Well, I'm living on my 0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:23.360 wife's meager salary as a grocery checker. I was on 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:26.400 a retainer I think for I don't know, a hundred 0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:30.280 bucks maybe a week. Sheolter Records was you know, not 0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:32.240 rolling in the dough, so they were kind of keeping 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:35.200 us alive. I looked back, I don't know how we lived. 0:33:35.200 --> 0:33:37.040 I don't know how we paid her rent and got groceries. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.760 But for me personally, uh, my wife was at a 0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:44.120 steady job and she was you know, covering the bases 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:47.120 until the music started bringing in money. And then she 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:49.200 you know, had a baby and was able to quit 0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:52.280 her job. But we just I don't know we survived. 0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:55.400 You know. It was like kind of when I think 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.040 back on it, I don't know how we did it. 0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:02.760 We we got through somehow. So the album comes out, 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:06.240 certainly gets some mink that people know know that it's out, 0:34:06.920 --> 0:34:09.239 but nothing really happens in the US. How do you 0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:13.000 end up going to the UK? Well, we got a 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:17.360 meager airplay in San Francisco, in Boston, but basically nothing happening. 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:24.040 And somehow, um through the record company and the promoters, 0:34:24.080 --> 0:34:27.000 they got us onto a tour with Nose Loft Gran 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:29.640 in England. I don't know how they did that, but 0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:31.799 we all went to England to open for Nose Left 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:35.960 Grin and around around the country there, and uh, the 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.319 press over there for some reason really loved us, you know, 0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:41.319 and so we started to get a buzz over there 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:47.720 and positive press and that kind of snowballs when we 0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:49.560 gave us a little momentum. When we came back, we 0:34:49.640 --> 0:34:52.440 had a little you know, energy underneath us from that 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:54.480 tour and we started to get a little more airplay. 0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:58.239 And it was a slow process, you know. We it 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:01.440 took us a while. We paid some dutes for sure. Well, 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:03.719 I certainly remember in Los Angeles he started to play 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:08.000 a live version of Breakdown, and you know, I remember 0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:11.400 it was a slow burn. I remember seeing you guys 0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:13.640 at the Whiskey in the summer of seventy seven. It 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:17.799 was really starting to Oh that was a great game 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:22.719 as it was. Uh So, in any event, at what 0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:29.720 point do you side, Okay, we gotta make a second record? Well, um, 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:31.760 we always thought we were going to make a second record. 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:34.040 It was a matter of, I guess this one's done, 0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:36.120 all that's gonna do, Let's make another one, you know. 0:35:36.680 --> 0:35:38.840 And back then the industry was way different than it 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:42.319 is now, you know, And back then you could put 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:44.120 out a record or two that maybe don't set the 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.200 world on fire. But if you go out and tour 0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:48.879 and start to build up a fan base over time, 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:51.399 by the third or fourth record, if things go well, 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:54.400 your records will start selling because you've built up, you know, 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:57.680 a fan based on the road. Nowadays it's different, but 0:35:57.760 --> 0:35:59.879 that's what we did, you know. We just go out 0:35:59.880 --> 0:36:02.719 and get whatever. We opened a lot of shows like 0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.799 for Ja Giles and Bob Seeger or whoever would have us, 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:09.080 and we would play, you know, our own shows and 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.239 the smaller clubs like I kind of like what I'm 0:36:11.280 --> 0:36:14.560 doing now with my band and um, and then in 0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:16.399 between that we would go in and try to work 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:19.480 on the you know, songs for the second record, and 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:21.680 when it was done, we put it out and kept going, 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:24.040 you know, books and more gigs. At what point do 0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:28.960 you hook up with Tony demitriotus? He was around uh 0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:32.640 early on. Uh. There was a couple of managers that 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:35.520 were snipping around us in the early days, and he 0:36:35.560 --> 0:36:39.279 was the one that seemed the most honest and trustworthy, 0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:42.560 and so he was. He was there for pretty early on. 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.400 So you make the second album, I mean, the first 0:36:46.400 --> 0:36:51.120 album I absolutely love with Luna, the Wall, One Forever, etcetera. 0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:55.440 The second album comes out, it gets more attention. I 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:57.759 do not like it as much as the first. That's 0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:01.000 not saying that I don't like it, but it doesn't 0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:06.400 quite break through with the expectations. What was your perspective 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:09.200 being on the inside? I agree with you. I like that. 0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:11.080 I still think the first record is one of my 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:14.439 favorite records of all our records. The second record was good, 0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:17.680 had I Need to Know and uh listen to Her Heart. 0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.960 You know, it had some good songs on there. Um, 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:23.880 but we're still kind of learning, and so it's just 0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:26.480 a matter of, you know, more of the same. We 0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:28.799 got a record, you know, a couple of songs are 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:30.319 getting a little bit of airplay, and we'll go out 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:32.160 and get some gigs and maybe try to build up 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:35.959 some momentum and make another record someday, you know. Of course, 0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:37.920 by the time we got to the third record, we realized, 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:39.600 you know, we got to make a really good record 0:37:39.640 --> 0:37:42.480 now because this is you know, we can't go on 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:44.439 like this. We need something that's going to break through. 0:37:44.480 --> 0:37:46.560 And that was for the third album was finally we 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:48.920 we hit bigger. And are you still living on a 0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:51.800 subsistence level or have you ever seen him? Yeah? Yeah, 0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:54.760 we're still getting by on you know, month to month, 0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.239 you know, paying her rent. So how do you find groceries? 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:02.760 How do you end up poking up up with me iving? Well, 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:08.560 it was Cordell actually, uh and his uh great wisdom. Uh. 0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:10.880 He said, you know what you guys need to to 0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:14.799 make a record that's more mainstream friendly. And he said, 0:38:14.840 --> 0:38:16.439 I don't think I know how to produce that type 0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:19.239 of record, but I should step aside. We should get 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:21.960 you a producer that makes records that sound great on 0:38:22.000 --> 0:38:24.840 the radio. And so we said, well, like what and 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.200 he played his so Patti Smith's song because the night 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.720 which Jimmy had produced and it had this huge drum 0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:34.239 sound and it just sounded great on the radio. So 0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.640 we said, well, can we get that guy? And so 0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:39.759 he came in and we started working with him, going 0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:42.759 for the big sound. This is also the point where 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:46.600 you get into the war with m c A. What 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:52.920 was your perspective on that, Well, you know, we're just 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:56.040 scuffling poor boys, you know. The record company kind of 0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:58.160 shuffled us over to a read other record company. We're 0:38:58.160 --> 0:39:03.000 not making any money and and uh that you know, 0:39:04.239 --> 0:39:06.640 we're not going to give them another record because there 0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.040 they don't deserve it. So we just won't record. We'll 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:10.759 go out and play and we did a lawsuit tour. 0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:15.080 We refused to record for the new which I went 0:39:15.120 --> 0:39:18.160 from Shelter to M to ABC and then m c A. 0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:20.960 And they just shuffled us around and asked us, you know, 0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:22.840 said okay, well we're not gonna give you a record, 0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:26.680 we'll just play live, you know. And then eventually things 0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:29.040 came around and they renegotiated the deal and we got 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:31.600 Jimmy to produce and uh get over at m c A. 0:39:31.719 --> 0:39:35.440 And it was it was just a I don't know 0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:39.640 as bad as it might sound. Uh, I'm in l A, 0:39:40.520 --> 0:39:43.400 I'm playing in the band. We have records out. I 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:45.560 was already successful in my mind, you know, I had 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:48.719 no idea what we were gonna do. But even though 0:39:48.719 --> 0:39:51.120 we were struggling and scuffling and getting by, I still 0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:54.080 felt coming from Gainesville, Florida, that was still pretty high 0:39:54.160 --> 0:40:05.279 end stuff for me. Okay, you work with Jimmy and 0:40:05.320 --> 0:40:09.480 obviously Damn the Torpedoes is the huge breakthrough. What is 0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:17.520 his influence? Well, Jimmy. First of all, he brought his 0:40:17.600 --> 0:40:21.440 engineer who got that great sound, Shelley Akis, And it 0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:26.960 was really hard work. Uh, I mean almost totally miserable, 0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:29.439 trying to get a sound, not really knowing what we're 0:40:29.480 --> 0:40:33.239 doing and learning and and you know, they would work 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:35.880 on the snare drum for three days, you know, and 0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:37.839 then okay, we got the snare drum sound, let's work 0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:40.200 on the base, you know, and two weeks go by. Okay, 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:42.800 now play this song. Well, I don't even feel like 0:40:42.800 --> 0:40:45.680 playing the song now. I'm sick of hearing the snare drum. 0:40:45.719 --> 0:40:49.120 So we had to learn how to get the sound 0:40:49.160 --> 0:40:51.279 in her head from the room into what we were 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:53.160 hearing that back on the speakers, and Jimmy was good 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:56.040 at that. He knew what he was going for and um, 0:40:56.320 --> 0:40:59.000 he was driven to make the best sounding record ever made. 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.439 That was you know, jim he had and Tom too, 0:41:02.160 --> 0:41:04.920 this vision of you know, we're going for greatness. You know, 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:07.560 we're not gonna settle for anything that's not better than 0:41:07.600 --> 0:41:11.359 everything else out there. And Jimmy had that drive in 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:15.600 that overview. Um, and he pushed his hard, you know. 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:17.879 But that record came out and it did really well. 0:41:17.920 --> 0:41:22.320 So there you go. So we're all those songs written 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:26.239 before you got into the studio with Jimmy, Uh, we're 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:30.040 songs rejected. How did you end up with those songs? Well, 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.520 we had a handful of songs. We had Refugee and 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:35.560 here comes to My Girl, which I had written with Tom. Okay, 0:41:35.600 --> 0:41:38.720 you just stayed stopped there for a second. That change 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:40.880 and here comes my Girl where it goes down and 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:43.680 goes watch her walk? How did that come? How did 0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:47.520 that come together? That's something it's indelible. I tingled what 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:52.600 I think about it. They called it a bridge, and 0:41:52.680 --> 0:41:57.640 it's very you know, it's just a matter of the 0:41:57.800 --> 0:42:00.080 two chords just going along, you know, and then go 0:42:00.160 --> 0:42:04.919 where do I go from there? Well, how about take 0:42:04.960 --> 0:42:09.400 it to another mood for a second and back. It 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:13.280 was just a little interlude to give those chords a break, 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:15.560 and that's what a good bridge should do. That should 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:19.000 just like bridge you from that course into the next 0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:22.120 verse without distracting from the flow. It was just a 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:24.200 chord really, It went down from A to F sharp 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.960 and it's just something I came up with on my demo. 0:42:27.320 --> 0:42:32.320 So anyway, we had those two songs and some other songs. Uh, 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:35.000 don't do me like that was in there, but we 0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:37.040 were we'd already tried that a few times with their 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:40.480 first two albums and we're off of it, and maybe 0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:42.399 a Louis the Enter Reign, we might have had that song. 0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.799 But Jimmy Ivan he heard Refugee and Here Comes from 0:42:44.800 --> 0:42:46.560 a Girl and said, I don't care what else you 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:49.080 guys do. That's the h We've got a record those 0:42:49.120 --> 0:42:50.520 two songs. I don't even want to hear the rest 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:51.759 of you do whatever you want. We're gonna make a 0:42:51.800 --> 0:42:53.600 hit out of those two songs. And he goes, I 0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:57.680 never listened to side too of any record my whole lot. Yeah, 0:42:57.719 --> 0:42:59.320 that's the kind of guy Jimmy was, you know, he 0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:01.600 wanted to business. He wanted it now, and he heard 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:03.799 the business and those two songs, Okay, we're gonna make 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:05.399 those that you guys make the rest of the record 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:08.880 whatever you want, you know, which is really kind of hilarious. 0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:11.279 But don't do me like that. We did pull out 0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:12.799 at the last second. We had cut it and put 0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:14.719 it away, and then we heard it. So one that 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:17.040 was pretty good. We should finish it. And so that 0:43:17.200 --> 0:43:19.200 came out on that record as well, and we usually 0:43:19.280 --> 0:43:23.120 enter reigning a few other rockers and but really it 0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:25.080 was the refugee and here comes to my girl kind 0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:27.080 of carried the weight on that one. So how did you? 0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:31.239 And Tom Right and even the losers even, how did you? 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:33.799 That's my wife. That's my wife at the beginning, it's 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:37.720 just a normal noise. Really, okay, that's my wife, Marcy. Uh. 0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:39.799 When I did the demo at my house and my 0:43:39.840 --> 0:43:42.440 four tracks, she was in the other room and the 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:44.359 washing machine was going to took a ticker tick out? 0:43:44.480 --> 0:43:46.720 What is that? She goes, It's just the normal noises 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:49.880 in here, and so I was it bled into my demo. 0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:51.680 So when Tom heard, he says, we have to use 0:43:51.719 --> 0:43:54.160 that that bit, and Jimmy thought he was nice. He said, 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:55.840 what's that got to do with the record? Said no, 0:43:55.920 --> 0:43:57.920 but we need it because the two songs were in 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.919 the same key, so that kind of distracted your mind 0:44:00.960 --> 0:44:03.600 from what key you were in, and so she became 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:06.279 on the record. It was funny, that is. I never 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:09.200 knew a little aside. I never knew that story. So 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.560 how do you write refugee, which is really the big 0:44:12.640 --> 0:44:16.400 monster breakthrough, you know, how do you write it? I 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:20.000 don't know, man, it's it's it's it's magic and luck 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:23.960 and work, you know. I was just I had my 0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:26.799 four track, which, once again, my wife talked me into 0:44:26.800 --> 0:44:28.160 buying the four track. We could it was a t 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:31.080 ac you know, we couldn't afford it, but she said, no, 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:33.640 you should buy that. You know it'll pay off. And 0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:36.480 she was right. God bless her. She always believed in me. 0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:38.759 But anyway, I had my four track and I was 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:41.120 playing around with it, you know, and trying to think it. Well, 0:44:41.160 --> 0:44:42.640 let me put it some chords on here so I 0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:45.080 could play lead guitar along with it and practice my leads. 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:48.600 It was those chords that I borrowed from Albert Kane 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:52.520 song and changed around a little bit, and I just 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:56.040 threw a little demo together, uh not mostly for an 0:44:56.120 --> 0:45:00.840 excuse to practice lead guitar. And uh then Tom heard it, 0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:04.480 and of course he hit that that lyric and you know, 0:45:04.680 --> 0:45:06.760 forget about it. You know, he made it like eighteen 0:45:06.760 --> 0:45:11.799 times better, and uh it became this iconic song. I mean, 0:45:11.800 --> 0:45:13.600 it's just luck, man, you know, I think about that 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:16.239 all the time. Where do these songs come from? Hawaii? 0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:17.759 Where did it? You know? How can I why can 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:19.680 I just conjure it up every day? I don't know. 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:25.080 It's magic, it's luck, it's spiritual, it's just I think, 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:26.799 And it's just a lot of just keeping your head, 0:45:26.880 --> 0:45:29.919 your nose to the nose to the grindstone, just work 0:45:29.960 --> 0:45:32.480 and work and working and hoping that some miracle will 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:34.480 happen in the middle of it all. You know. So 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:37.759 when you wrote with Tom, is that generally the way 0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:41.120 it would go down. You would do something independently delivered 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:45.680 to him, he'd write the lyrics. Yeah. Always we never 0:45:45.719 --> 0:45:48.839 sat down eyeball to eyeball. It seems always seem so intimidating, 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:51.040 like what do you got? What you got? You know? 0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:53.239 So I would just come in, but well, here's an idea. 0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:55.040 I'd play the tape you know, how about this? You know? 0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:57.560 And he would if he liked it, he would just start, 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:00.120 you know, I guess, singing along in his He go, 0:46:00.160 --> 0:46:01.759 I'll take it off to his house and come back 0:46:01.760 --> 0:46:03.080 to me and see, I think I got some words 0:46:03.080 --> 0:46:05.560 for that music. And that's the way it always worked. 0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:08.960 It was a great relationship. Did you ever add words? 0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:13.879 Did he ever change the music? Occasionally, like those two 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:17.000 songs Refugee and Her christ m Girl. Most of the 0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:20.040 songs the music was intact. Occasionally he would come in 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:23.640 and go, you know, I've got this this lyric going, 0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:26.440 and I need a different chord here to to carry 0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:28.600 through with what you've already got. He might add a chord, 0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:32.520 very rarely what I suggest a lyric maybe later on. 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:35.400 I had a few lyrics suggestions, but I almost always 0:46:35.480 --> 0:46:38.160 left the lyrics up to him. And I would say, 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.520 like a five percent of the time the demos were 0:46:40.560 --> 0:46:45.319 exactly the way I handed him to him. Okay, this 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:50.399 begs the question of publishing. These are gigantic songs. How 0:46:50.480 --> 0:46:53.560 much of the publishing did you own? Then? Do you own? Now? 0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:58.960 We always split everything fifty. Okay, so we had fifty, 0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:01.840 you add five d and you owned it together, or 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:04.200 there was another party that had another fifty. Now we 0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:08.840 owned it together, I mean until late recently. Uh, I 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:10.840 don't know what his his stage is done with his publishing. 0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.200 But nowadays you can sell your publishing to a third 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.480 party if you want to get all the cash that 0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:18.000 you're gonna end make over the next few years up front, 0:47:18.040 --> 0:47:21.319 if you want it. But we never did that. He 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:24.640 had gone Gator Music. I had Wild Gator Music, and 0:47:24.680 --> 0:47:26.880 we kept our our publishing. You know, we didn't want 0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:28.880 to sell it. So it was just a you know, 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:32.000 a two way partnership. Okay. But from the very first record, 0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:35.560 you and Tom owned the Hunter Present. Yeah that's kind 0:47:35.560 --> 0:47:38.400 of rare. And yeah, well well we learned. See, we 0:47:38.440 --> 0:47:40.480 had learned the hardway. On those first two records, we 0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:43.200 got shuffle around by the company. That's what that lawsuit 0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:44.959 was all about. It's like, you know, you're not gonna 0:47:45.040 --> 0:47:47.960 take our music, You're not gonna take our publishing. Like 0:47:48.000 --> 0:47:50.799 even Cordell and our first deal, he wrote in a 0:47:50.800 --> 0:47:52.880 piece of the publishing for himself, which we didn't know 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:55.680 any better. But by the third record, we were smart, 0:47:55.760 --> 0:47:58.759 you know. Now we're keeping our songs, you know, and 0:47:58.840 --> 0:48:00.600 you can have the artists, you know, a piece of 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.719 the artist record royalties, but the songs belong to us, 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:07.520 and that's mostly Tom. Tom was very astute businessman. And 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:10.040 did you ever get the pieces back from the first 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:13.040 two records? We did? We did eventually buy them back. 0:48:13.840 --> 0:48:16.319 I forget, probably twenty years ago or something. It became 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:18.080 available when we bought them back, so we owned it 0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:21.360 all now. And what what about you selling it to 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:26.160 hypnosis or primary wave or something. Well, I'll have to 0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:29.360 be really hard up for cash to do that. Um. 0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:32.160 I think I recently did it. My wife is the 0:48:32.160 --> 0:48:36.520 businesswoman in the partnership. I think we did a temporary 0:48:36.560 --> 0:48:39.600 deal where we wanted to buy some property and we 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:43.000 did like, okay, well you give us an advance for 0:48:43.160 --> 0:48:44.839 you know, I think it was four years or something, 0:48:44.840 --> 0:48:46.400 and then after the four years we get all the 0:48:46.400 --> 0:48:51.800 publishing back, a little temporary cash jump thing. But I 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:53.759 don't want to give up my songs, you know, I 0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:56.640 really don't. Unless I'm really destitute or the kids need 0:48:56.719 --> 0:48:59.320 medical treatment or something, I would never sell The songs 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:02.120 are my part of them. Okay. The record is done. 0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:06.279 Do you think it's gonna be make a successful Do 0:49:06.320 --> 0:49:10.279 you think refugees and instant hit? What's your perspective? We 0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:12.480 had no idea. I mean, Jimmy thought it was. And 0:49:12.560 --> 0:49:15.800 see the thing that Jimmy did more than just producing. 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:18.280 He went out and promoted the record when it was done. 0:49:18.800 --> 0:49:20.239 You know, he would take the tapes and fly to 0:49:20.280 --> 0:49:21.880 New York and go to the radio station said, but 0:49:22.040 --> 0:49:23.640 let's play this, play this, this is the best thing 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.080 ever done. He was a real promoter, you know, he 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:27.839 went out and pushed that record and got it played 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.200 a lot. But did what do we know? I mean, 0:49:30.520 --> 0:49:33.239 we made another record, you know, hopefully it'll do well. 0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:34.840 I mean I think it's pretty good. But you know, 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:38.600 until people start buying it and and then you begin 0:49:38.680 --> 0:49:40.799 to realize like, wow, this connected with some people, but 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:44.799 you don't really know. We didn't. Well, certainly Los Angeles 0:49:44.840 --> 0:49:48.600 refugee hits the radio instantly. So at what point did 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:52.839 you realize, holy fuck, this is really happening. Well, yeah, 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.160 there was. There was kind of a moment there. Uh, 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:59.200 when the first publishing check in. I remember looking at 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.000 and going like with my wife, going like, honey, I 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:03.799 think our ship just came in, you know, let's go 0:50:03.840 --> 0:50:06.920 by Mercedes. Then I went to the accountant and had 0:50:06.960 --> 0:50:11.000 the meeting. Yeah, that was your gross and then he 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:13.080 pushed me a piece here, here's your money after taxes, 0:50:13.120 --> 0:50:16.759 and I was like, no, this can't be true. I 0:50:16.800 --> 0:50:18.880 finally made it and you're taking or than have him 0:50:18.880 --> 0:50:22.360 it back. There was, you know, a lesson in life. 0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:26.759 So what was the whole damn the Torpedoes experience, Like 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:32.080 being at the pinnacle of the music business, well you 0:50:32.120 --> 0:50:38.400 know where it's like, uh, it's like the first time. Yeah, 0:50:38.760 --> 0:50:41.759 we were right now. It's it's so heavy and your 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.279 dream it all starts to happen. It's like it's so 0:50:45.400 --> 0:50:50.960 intense and wonderful and spiritual that you can hardly. Um. 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:53.120 The only way we could deal with it's just like, Okay, 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:55.280 that's good, that's happening. Wow, it's gonna happen, and everything's 0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:57.960 gonna let's focus, you know, stay focused on on one 0:50:58.040 --> 0:51:00.799 work because otherwise you just get lost and and the 0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:04.120 glory of your success. You know, it was pretty heavy, 0:51:04.360 --> 0:51:09.680 and uh it was um, you know, it's like the 0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:11.640 first time, like the first time you ever have sex. 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:14.080 You know, it's never quite as good as that first time, 0:51:14.719 --> 0:51:16.799 and then we've had hit records system. But when when 0:51:16.840 --> 0:51:20.520 you first breakthrough, it's like, Wow, we did it. We're 0:51:20.520 --> 0:51:25.120 gonna be We're gonna this is gonna be big. Imagine that. 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:28.239 How did that happen? And it's like, you never you 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:30.480 only get that feeling once and we were fortunate enough 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:35.120 to have that happen on that record. So what opportunities 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:39.279 came your way? I'm not talking financial, but now you're 0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:42.480 sitting a top the charts, you suddenly start meeting your heroes. 0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:46.600 How does your life change? Yeah? Slowly, over time, you 0:51:46.640 --> 0:51:49.239 start to cross paths with, you know, people that you've 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:51.640 looked up to because of your success in the in 0:51:51.680 --> 0:51:56.000 the the circles that you're you know, walking in. All 0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.560 of a sudden, um, that just starts to happen organically. 0:51:59.640 --> 0:52:01.200 I mean, it wasn't like all of a sudden, all 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:02.920 these people showed up at our door, but you know, 0:52:02.960 --> 0:52:04.839 you bump into this guy at the studio or that 0:52:04.880 --> 0:52:08.440 guy you know, or at a gig, somebody's backstage and 0:52:08.440 --> 0:52:12.640 they say hi, and then uh, it was just you know, 0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:15.400 I'm still blown away that the people I've met the 0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:17.839 heroes of mine that I've met that actually liked me 0:52:17.880 --> 0:52:20.600 and wanted to work with me. And I could never 0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:23.920 have dreamed that, you know, my life would unfold that way. 0:52:23.960 --> 0:52:27.200 When I was in Jacksonville, it was just like, it's 0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:30.839 beyond my wildest dreams. It really is. Okay, so that 0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:33.640 record runs its course. How much pressure do you feel 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:39.000 doing hard promises? Well, I didn't think about it that much. 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:40.680 We'll just make another record, you know, now we're now 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:43.880 they they like us, so we don't have to break 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.520 through and prove that we're They already think we're good. 0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:48.600 So now we we have that under our belt. But 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:50.880 you want to you know that from then on, every 0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:53.600 record you're trying to make better than that one. Now, 0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:55.440 even to the last record we may, you're always trying 0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:57.239 to make the best record you ever. May you're not 0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:00.120 going to do that, nobody does, but you strive to 0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:03.759 do that. But we didn't struggle with pressure. You know, 0:53:03.840 --> 0:53:05.640 we were pretty confident that, you know, this may not 0:53:05.760 --> 0:53:08.279 be as good as Torpedoes, but it's good and it's 0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:10.520 just this chapter and maybe we'll make another record after 0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:13.080 see what happens there. But we didn't, you know, we 0:53:13.080 --> 0:53:17.040 didn't agonize over it. My favorite song on that album. 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:20.520 One of my favorite Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers songs 0:53:21.000 --> 0:53:23.200 is a woman in love It's not Me? Can you 0:53:23.239 --> 0:53:26.640 tell me the story of that? I wrote the music 0:53:27.360 --> 0:53:31.120 and I had a demo and gave it to Time. 0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:34.239 He wrote the words, and I liked that song a 0:53:34.239 --> 0:53:38.120 lot too. It's it's it's a really interesting character in 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:41.520 that song. And Duck Dunn was in the studio that 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:43.920 week and he came in and played based on it 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:49.960 and really made it grew really nicely, and uh, well, 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:52.040 thank you. Yeah, I like that song too. It's just 0:53:52.080 --> 0:53:54.680 another demo I gave Tom and he was inspired to 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:57.120 write a song to it. You know, So you go 0:53:57.160 --> 0:53:59.600 on tour. I remember seeing you with you were opening 0:53:59.600 --> 0:54:04.400 for Joe Walsh, which seemed a little strange, but uh, 0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:08.520 in any event, that album is not as commercially successful 0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:12.160 you make long. I don't remember opening for Joe Walsh ever. 0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:14.880 I mean after Torpedoes, we didn't open for anybody. Then 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:18.480 maybe Joe Walsh opened for you. Yeah, we never opened 0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:21.799 for Joe Walsh, but espec seriously, after actually before the 0:54:21.840 --> 0:54:24.320 third album, we made a decision. You know, we're not 0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:26.800 gonna open for anybody. Anymore. I'd rather play a smaller 0:54:26.840 --> 0:54:29.359 place where they all came to see us, and by torpedoes, 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:32.640 we were certainly on our headliner all the time. Well 0:54:32.640 --> 0:54:35.680 then I must remember that upside down. So yeah, So 0:54:35.719 --> 0:54:40.880 in any event, long after Dark comes out and for me, 0:54:41.320 --> 0:54:45.240 of the initial run, that is the least satisfying record 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:49.680 and not that commercially successful. Was that something you guys felt? 0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:57.640 Are you just making another record? Well? Um, by that point, Uh, 0:54:57.800 --> 0:55:00.080 It's funny when you get a producer and you it 0:55:00.120 --> 0:55:03.400 into a role and you make a few records. Sometimes 0:55:03.400 --> 0:55:05.279 by the third or fourth record, it starts to get 0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:08.640 a little less fresh, the energy between you and you 0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:11.520 get a little stale creatively. And I think by that 0:55:11.600 --> 0:55:14.600 record maybe Jimmy was being pulled in different directions and 0:55:14.640 --> 0:55:21.400 maybe we were kind of uh, a little too familiar 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:24.520 with our routine and so the record. But you know, 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.200 that's one thing. But the other thing is, like you 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:29.520 asked me before, where do these songs come from? Those 0:55:29.560 --> 0:55:31.640 are the songs that came up that year, you know, 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:34.160 and as a refugee or here comes my Girl or 0:55:34.200 --> 0:55:39.719 woman in Love. No, there's still quality, uh songs, but 0:55:40.000 --> 0:55:42.680 the bar is really high now and I agree with you. 0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:44.560 It's not one of my favorite records, although I like 0:55:44.680 --> 0:55:47.879 it and there's some high points in there, but it's 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:51.000 not as good as those other records you mentioned. Um, 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:53.040 but that's the way a career is. You know, every 0:55:53.080 --> 0:55:54.920 record it makes not going to be better than the 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:57.160 last one. I don't care who you are, you know. 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:00.000 In fact, usually they get worse with a lot of artists. 0:56:00.840 --> 0:56:04.160 But we felt that, you know, this one's not as 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:07.200 but we're okay because we have a fan base and 0:56:07.520 --> 0:56:09.680 it's still doing pretty good. Maybe the next one will 0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:12.879 break through a big again, you know, just keep pushing forward. Well, 0:56:12.880 --> 0:56:18.359 Southern Accents ends up becoming huge based primarily I don't 0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:21.280 come around here no more. In the video on MTV. 0:56:22.040 --> 0:56:25.240 I mean, you guys are the opposite of what's normally 0:56:25.239 --> 0:56:27.960 being played at MTV at that particular point, which is 0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:31.560 a lot of English new wave. The song is different 0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:35.920 from anything anybody's ever heard before. Do you think that 0:56:36.000 --> 0:56:42.680 track is gonna go? Well, uh, you hope it will, 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:46.759 but you never really know until it goes, you know, 0:56:47.160 --> 0:56:50.360 keep your fingers crossed. You know, hit records that have 0:56:50.400 --> 0:56:54.719 a lot to do with timing to the climate of 0:56:54.760 --> 0:56:56.520 the culture and what other records are out at the 0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:59.640 same time that you're competing with. So we thought it 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:04.000 was atty catchy. Um, but you know, you never really know. 0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:08.040 I think the song's southern accents. Um. That song is 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.920 one of the best songs he ever wrote, just as 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:14.560 a song. Um, you know, don't come around here no more. 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:16.560 There's a lot of bells and whistles on that record 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:18.800 and the video, and back then it was the MTV 0:57:19.080 --> 0:57:20.800 was was an issue. You know, you had to make 0:57:20.800 --> 0:57:26.600 a cool video, and so it had that going for it. Um. 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:28.480 And it was good to have Dave Stewart around for 0:57:28.480 --> 0:57:31.160 a little while as some new energy, break us out 0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:36.360 of our routine a little bit. And the following album, 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.080 the opening song is Jamming Me, which is certainly something 0:57:39.080 --> 0:57:43.960 became a staple. Oh, certainly live. Bob Telling was one 0:57:44.000 --> 0:57:47.360 of the cold writers. How does that? Yeah? I know, 0:57:47.440 --> 0:57:49.360 how lucky am I I wasn't even there, you know. 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:54.080 I had the music, gave it to Tom and he 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:57.320 had gone to see Bob at a hotel, local hotel 0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:59.800 for some reason or other, and he had my demo. 0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:02.200 He played it for Bob and they sat together and 0:58:02.200 --> 0:58:05.280 wrote the words. I wasn't even there, and he goes 0:58:05.360 --> 0:58:06.520 me up and he goes I think you know, Bob, 0:58:06.560 --> 0:58:08.680 and I wrote some words to your track. Oh great, 0:58:08.760 --> 0:58:10.120 you know, let let me hear it. You know it 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:13.720 was jamming me. So there I am. I'm the luckiest 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:17.280 guy in the world. How do you feel at the 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:22.439 time about Tomson he wants to cut a solo record. Well, 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:24.920 I think it made sense because the band was a 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:29.240 little stale and we were kind of following into a 0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:32.960 boring energy with We were bored with each other, we 0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:37.400 were bored with our way of making records, and I 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:40.680 think it was healthy for everybody. Whether the band liked 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:44.760 it at the time or not. It never it didn't 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:47.040 mean it didn't affect me that much because he asked 0:58:47.040 --> 0:58:48.960 me to produce it with him anyway, So I was 0:58:49.040 --> 0:58:50.959 there just the same as usual. It's just the band 0:58:51.040 --> 0:58:54.120 wasn't there. But it might have been hard on them 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:55.800 a little bit, but I think in the long run 0:58:55.840 --> 0:58:58.480 it worked out good for everybody. Let's go back to 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.480 the great great songs, right, Let's go back to the 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:05.560 very beginning. It's Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, not the Heartbreakers. 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:08.240 How did you feel, How did it end? Up having 0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:10.000 his name at top, and how did the rest of 0:59:10.040 --> 0:59:13.880 the band feel about that. Well, I can only speak 0:59:13.920 --> 0:59:16.000 for myself, but I've talked to them all and they 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:19.120 all kind of agree. Up until that point, it was 0:59:19.160 --> 0:59:21.160 all for one and one for all from Florida, you know, 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:25.080 we were all on the same pay grade and sharing 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:27.040 everything because we didn't have much to share, you know. 0:59:27.680 --> 0:59:32.440 And then as it became obvious that Tom was leading 0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:35.960 the group, writing most of the songs, seeing the songs 0:59:37.400 --> 0:59:40.800 um and it became obvious that the best way to 0:59:40.840 --> 0:59:46.800 present this this uh act is Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, 0:59:46.800 --> 0:59:49.520 because it really was, That's what it was. And it 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:51.680 was a little bit of an adjustment at first, like, Okay, 0:59:51.720 --> 0:59:54.320 well he's gonna put his name on there, but you know, 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:57.280 does he deserve it? Yeah? Are we all gonna do 0:59:57.320 --> 1:00:00.320 well anyway? Yeah, So we didn't spend much time I'm 1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:03.920 worrying about it. Just seemed like a natural progression. And 1:00:04.000 --> 1:00:07.800 I think the band, like I said, they probably agree 1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:10.400 with me. You have to ask them. But my ego 1:00:11.040 --> 1:00:13.640 was not so strong that I felt threatened by it. 1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:15.200 You know. I thought, well, I'm just happy to be 1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:16.880 in this band, you know. I get to play guitarget 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:20.320 to write songs. I don't really care whose names up there, 1:00:20.360 --> 1:00:21.560 as long as I get to do what I want 1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:24.880 to do, you know. So I never I didn't have 1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:28.040 a competitive thing about it. I felt, you know, it 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:30.600 works if we're all still working together, we're still you know, 1:00:30.680 --> 1:00:34.400 having success together. I'm fine with it. And looking back 1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:36.360 on it, I think he deserved it. You know, he was. 1:00:36.480 --> 1:00:38.600 He was carrying a lot of the weight. He was 1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:41.880 making a lot of the decisions, management decisions as well. 1:00:42.000 --> 1:00:43.920 He was leading the group and he had to drive 1:00:44.800 --> 1:00:47.640 um of leadership that I think he deserved to have 1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:50.800 his name in on there. And when you played live, 1:00:51.000 --> 1:00:55.440 was it an even split? Uh? It was not. It 1:00:55.600 --> 1:00:58.280 was half and half half of Tom half of the band, 1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:01.720 and I think that was fair. And at what point 1:01:01.800 --> 1:01:05.560 did that starter? From the very beginning around Torpedoes. I 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:08.720 think it was Elliott Roberts was our co manager of 1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:10.000 the time, and he came and said, look, guys, we 1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:11.840 need to make this fair. It's not fair to Tom. 1:01:12.000 --> 1:01:14.440 You know, he's carrying it. So here's how I think 1:01:14.440 --> 1:01:16.880 we should go forward. And everybody went, okay, fine, you know, 1:01:17.560 --> 1:01:28.760 book some gigs, let's all make some money. So I 1:01:28.760 --> 1:01:32.120 have you ended up working with Don Henley? Well, I've 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:34.080 told that story many times. It was a demo I 1:01:34.160 --> 1:01:38.160 had uh music and I played it for Tom and 1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:41.280 Jimmy as we were working on whatever record we were 1:01:41.280 --> 1:01:43.920 working on at the time, and it didn't really fit 1:01:44.440 --> 1:01:46.400 that album, and so Tom said, no, I don't I 1:01:46.440 --> 1:01:48.120 don't know if I hear anything. I said, okay, fine, 1:01:48.160 --> 1:01:50.800 I got other stuff. And then Jimmy called me and said, 1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:53.880 you know that track he played me, Uh, Don Henley's 1:01:53.920 --> 1:01:59.200 looking for a song for his solo record, And I said, well, 1:01:59.320 --> 1:02:01.120 was he looking for ballot or a rocker? And he 1:02:01.160 --> 1:02:06.960 says an image maker? Okay, well if he if you 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:09.200 think that track is good. So he set up the meeting. 1:02:09.240 --> 1:02:11.960 I took it over and played it for Dawn, my 1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:15.320 little cassette, and he sat there like this, that's with 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:17.640 your head down. He listened to the whole thing. He 1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:20.280 didn't tap his foot, getting not his head. Got to 1:02:20.280 --> 1:02:23.760 the end of the song and he goes, okay, thanks, 1:02:23.880 --> 1:02:25.840 I'll talk to you later. I'll let you know. And 1:02:25.880 --> 1:02:28.160 I'm driving home and the phone rings and he goes, hey, 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:30.160 it's done, because he said, I've just written the best 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:32.520 song I've written in the last twenty years to your music. 1:02:32.960 --> 1:02:35.640 Oh great, okay, let me hear it, you know. So 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:39.520 that's how it went. Okay, so you have the demo, 1:02:40.480 --> 1:02:44.000 how do you make the ultimate recording? Well, that was 1:02:44.040 --> 1:02:46.440 hard because the demo was so good, you know, my 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:48.800 demos are good, and it was on a four track 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:51.640 and he wanted to change the key. So we had 1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:54.160 to go into studio and recreate the demo, which is 1:02:54.200 --> 1:02:56.680 always just really hard if you have a demo that's 1:02:56.680 --> 1:03:00.120 gout survivee and it's just loosen off the cuff and 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:02.520 you have to go back and try to recreate that 1:03:02.680 --> 1:03:05.880 magic that made it great in the first place. That 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:07.600 was one of those It was really hard, but we 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:10.560 did finally get it. That took a lot of work. 1:03:11.360 --> 1:03:16.920 And that stinging the guitar was that also on the demo? Yeah, 1:03:17.160 --> 1:03:19.200 that I had to relearn that because I had on 1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:21.880 the demo I had put the guitar on your low 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:25.520 dad this year about that there, did you know? Off 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:28.000 the off the top of my head, and then of 1:03:28.000 --> 1:03:30.600 course Don fell in love with those bits, so I 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:33.240 had to go back in and relearn what I had done. 1:03:33.320 --> 1:03:35.120 It was really hard. For me because okay, I guess 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:38.080 comes on one, two, three and dat dada. You know, 1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:42.840 I had to go back and learn all those little bits, um, 1:03:42.960 --> 1:03:45.120 which I did get it, but it took some you know, 1:03:45.120 --> 1:03:48.600 it was some brain work. And in terms of working 1:03:48.680 --> 1:03:53.120 with other people. Is the phone just ringing? Is it's 1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:56.280 something that happens occasionally at the time or all of 1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:57.840 a sudden you have a couple of hits and people 1:03:57.960 --> 1:04:02.320 ringing your phone off. No, it was occasional, um. You know. 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:04.840 I would get a note sometimes through the office. So 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:08.400 and so was interested and if somebody liked to say okay, 1:04:08.440 --> 1:04:11.840 if not, I'd go never mind, I'm busy. Not as 1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:14.280 much as you might think, you know. It wasn't ringing 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:16.760 off the hook, but occasionally i'd get an interesting call 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:20.160 here and there. The other song, of course, it's legendary 1:04:20.280 --> 1:04:24.160 with Henley is heard of the Matter? What's the story there? 1:04:26.080 --> 1:04:29.480 Heart of the Matter? I got up when Marning I 1:04:29.520 --> 1:04:36.200 was half asleep, and I just went and that's all 1:04:36.240 --> 1:04:41.680 I had, out of a dream or something, and I thought, well, 1:04:41.680 --> 1:04:43.280 maybe I'll make a demo out of that, you know, 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:46.880 and threw it together. It's very simple music, really, it's 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:51.000 so magical. They just come that was a little thing, 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:54.120 little out of that grew into that he heard it, 1:04:54.200 --> 1:04:57.320 he took it into another level. And I remember going 1:04:57.320 --> 1:05:01.760 to the Forum years later to see Don Lee solo 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:05.120 and they did that song. I'm sitting out in the audience. 1:05:05.160 --> 1:05:06.840 They did that song and he had a full on 1:05:07.000 --> 1:05:11.720 chorus singing the backgrounds and it was like a religious experience. 1:05:11.760 --> 1:05:15.080 It's like God smiled on me, you know. And Uh, 1:05:15.200 --> 1:05:17.240 I don't know. I almost hate to talk about the 1:05:17.320 --> 1:05:20.320 mystery or songwriting because I don't want to jinx it. 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:22.920 But I think it is a lot of it's just 1:05:23.040 --> 1:05:27.080 luck and timing and turning your brain off enough to 1:05:27.200 --> 1:05:30.240 let that little light china for a second. I don't know, man, 1:05:30.520 --> 1:05:33.880 you tell me and we'll both know. No, I feel 1:05:33.880 --> 1:05:37.120 the same way, but in my work. But in any event, Uh, 1:05:37.280 --> 1:05:41.520 do you play the guitar every day? I do a lot. 1:05:41.720 --> 1:05:46.000 I mean, are you just leaving the uh you know, 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:49.160 recording all the time or you waiting for those bolts 1:05:49.160 --> 1:05:53.120 of inspiration? How does it go down? You're holding up 1:05:53.160 --> 1:05:57.720 one of you a portable digital recorder. Yeah. I I 1:05:57.760 --> 1:06:00.280 am so addicted to writing and I'm so of like, 1:06:01.160 --> 1:06:04.320 um sensitive to the little the little fairy dust that 1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:07.960 might come and might slip away that I have. Little 1:06:07.960 --> 1:06:10.760 recorders are handy, so if I do get a little 1:06:10.760 --> 1:06:15.400 piece of something, immediately record it so I don't forget it. 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:17.600 It's funny and I don't really agree with what Roy 1:06:17.680 --> 1:06:20.880 Orbison said, but I asked him once, uh, and there's 1:06:20.880 --> 1:06:22.840 some something beautiful about what he said. I said, when 1:06:22.880 --> 1:06:26.440 you're writing songs, do you record the rough ideas so 1:06:26.480 --> 1:06:28.880 you don't forget them? He gaes, oh no, I never 1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:31.640 do that, and he goes, because I figured if I 1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:34.560 can't remember it, nobody else would have ever remembered it either. 1:06:35.480 --> 1:06:37.440 But I don't really agree with that, because I found 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:39.680 little bits and pieces that I did forget about that 1:06:39.760 --> 1:06:43.880 we're good. And do you a good judge of your 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:48.480 own material? Yeah? I mean not always In the moment 1:06:48.560 --> 1:06:50.760 and the moment you go with the muse and you 1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:53.720 just hope that it will shine on you with something great, 1:06:54.120 --> 1:06:56.000 and you've always feel like it's the best thing I 1:06:56.040 --> 1:06:58.200 ever did. And the next day you come back and 1:06:58.240 --> 1:07:01.680 listen to it and go, U, it's okay, you know, 1:07:02.200 --> 1:07:04.520 or or else you go, oh no, it's a kink song. 1:07:04.560 --> 1:07:09.120 I didn't even notice it, you know. Yeah, but uh, 1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:12.120 but yeah, once I sit back and listen, I'm I'm 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:15.480 a pretty good editor of bullshit. Yeah, my own book. 1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:18.840 And so now now you're working with Jeff Lynn. To 1:07:19.000 --> 1:07:21.280 what degree? What do you learn from Jeff Lynn that 1:07:21.360 --> 1:07:27.800 you don't know already? Oh so much, especially recording technique, 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:32.360 um and uh, just so much, says I can't even 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:35.040 hardly explain it. The way he records it is very 1:07:35.120 --> 1:07:40.960 fast and very um um efficient. You know. We come 1:07:41.000 --> 1:07:44.840 up with a song, uh on the guitar, like they 1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:52.480 had this song. Uh, that's all there was to it. 1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:56.560 And Jeff took that and built this whole record out 1:07:56.600 --> 1:07:59.240 of those two chords, you know, and he did it 1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:02.240 with background vocals. I learned so much about background vocals. 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:06.360 I learned so much about arrangement. And he plays a 1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:08.200 lot of the bass himself. He's really good on the 1:08:08.240 --> 1:08:12.880 base at making the track move just right, and uh, 1:08:13.320 --> 1:08:16.400 he always has an idea And I learned quickly on 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:18.920 the Full Moon Fever record with Jeff around one day 1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:21.519 he came in and we had started a track the 1:08:21.560 --> 1:08:24.559 afternoon before, and he came in because a lot of 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:26.639 times with the guitars. I'll make it up on the moment, 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:28.240 you know, I'll say, okay, we'll run the track and 1:08:28.240 --> 1:08:33.120 I'll find something. Jeff doesn't work like that. Jeff works 1:08:33.120 --> 1:08:35.240 apart out in his head before he gets to the studio. 1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:37.120 So he came in. He goes, so, Mike, do you 1:08:37.120 --> 1:08:40.320 have any guitar ideas for this track? And I said, 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:43.760 well no, I said, well I do, and he and 1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:45.160 so he said how about this? And it was this 1:08:45.600 --> 1:08:48.120 great part. You know. So the next time he asked me, 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:50.840 I said, oh, yeah, I've got some ideas. You're not 1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.439 gonna do that to me again, you know, you gotta so, 1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:54.920 you know, he was like that. He was just so 1:08:55.080 --> 1:08:57.880 full of great ideas and he made it fun. He 1:08:58.000 --> 1:08:59.960 it was so, you know, we cut those records like 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:03.559 free phone. He started at noon. By five o'clock is done, 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:09.040 background vocals, guitar parts finished. Because he knew how to 1:09:09.080 --> 1:09:11.599 get things done really quickly and had to put everything 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:14.840 in rhythm and grooving and the sounds and the microphone 1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:18.040 placements and the parts. And he would coach Tom and 1:09:18.040 --> 1:09:21.759 how to sing certain lines, and then his background vocal 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:24.120 trip is just a whole other thing. I won't get 1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:26.080 into it, but well, don't get it, get into what 1:09:26.200 --> 1:09:30.280 is it? Well, at the time. Nowadays you can do 1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:32.360 it digitally, but at the time, you know Jeff Lynn 1:09:32.400 --> 1:09:33.680 if you listen to his records, he has a lot 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:37.840 of these big background parts that sound amazing, and he 1:09:37.880 --> 1:09:40.680 shows us how to do it. And of course even 1:09:40.720 --> 1:09:41.960 if I tell you how to do it, you won't 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:43.800 be able to do it, because it's the way he 1:09:44.040 --> 1:09:47.160 does it. But basically, at the time, we were on analog, 1:09:47.240 --> 1:09:50.000 we didn't have digital, and we had a twenty four 1:09:50.040 --> 1:09:53.479 track machine and then a little mixed down tape machine 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:56.479 and said we'd start this song and he hears all 1:09:56.640 --> 1:10:00.320 the background parts. So say we've got out of twenty 1:10:00.360 --> 1:10:02.679 four tracks, we've got five or six of the acoustic 1:10:02.720 --> 1:10:05.240 guitars and a drum ba or whatever the basic format 1:10:05.680 --> 1:10:09.040 and live lead vocal. Okay, we'll go to the background parts. 1:10:09.080 --> 1:10:11.479 So he would find one note in the harmony and 1:10:11.479 --> 1:10:13.759 he and Tom would go out and sing it together 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:18.040 in unison. Okay, double that, Okay, triple that. So you've 1:10:18.080 --> 1:10:22.040 got three tracks, six voices singing the one note. Okay, 1:10:22.040 --> 1:10:23.639 now we're gonna do the next note in the chords. 1:10:23.720 --> 1:10:26.800 Same thing. So by the time you've got a you know, three, 1:10:27.040 --> 1:10:31.960 three or four note chorus, it's really like twenty voices 1:10:32.040 --> 1:10:35.559 coming in sounding rich as hell, but it's all sped 1:10:35.560 --> 1:10:37.559 across the twenty four tracks. So there's no more room 1:10:37.600 --> 1:10:40.280 for the music. So what you do, I should take 1:10:40.320 --> 1:10:43.640 all those voices only blend them, because he knew how 1:10:43.640 --> 1:10:46.040 to blend them that they would end up right. Copy 1:10:46.120 --> 1:10:50.280 that down to the two track. It's stereo, okay, Then 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:54.120 go back to your master track and bring up two 1:10:54.160 --> 1:10:57.800 tracks and put the two track and play and push 1:10:57.880 --> 1:11:00.519 the multi track and record and try to time it right. 1:11:00.640 --> 1:11:03.840 Boom right there the chorus comes in all so then 1:11:04.320 --> 1:11:06.800 and be cause it's on It's cause it's on a metronome. 1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:09.840 Every chorus is going to be on beat. So you 1:11:09.840 --> 1:11:12.040 went up to the next course drop these twenty voices. 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:15.080 So each time the chorus come by on stereo tracks, 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:18.559 you've got, you know, twenty voices in perfect tune and 1:11:18.600 --> 1:11:21.080 perfectly blended. So all of a sudden, you're a little 1:11:21.080 --> 1:11:24.960 twenty four tracks sounds huge. You know, that was one trick, 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:27.800 but there's and there's just so many more. I mean, 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:29.880 just he was just Brilliant's like going to college working 1:11:29.880 --> 1:11:32.519 with that guy. I really love and respect him so much. 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:37.000 So that record is cut, the Full Moon Fever record 1:11:37.080 --> 1:11:40.080 long before it comes out. So what's it like when 1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:42.920 you have something like that and it's sitting in the kids, 1:11:42.960 --> 1:11:45.360 you detach or you just eager, wait, wait, wait till 1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:48.439 this record comes out. Well, you know, it's like you 1:11:48.479 --> 1:11:50.519 were asking before, do you ever know if it's a hit. 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:52.840 You know, we had I Won't Back Down, Love is 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:56.280 a Long Road, free Fallen, and whatever else is on 1:11:56.320 --> 1:11:59.479 that record. Lots of hits on there, and we thought 1:11:59.479 --> 1:12:01.320 it was pretty good, you know, because we the three 1:12:01.360 --> 1:12:02.960 of us said, just the three of us basically did 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:05.120 it in my bedroom and then we took it over 1:12:05.120 --> 1:12:08.080 to m c A And played it for him. And 1:12:08.640 --> 1:12:10.080 well they went over and play it for him, and 1:12:10.120 --> 1:12:11.920 they came back. They were all depressed to go man, 1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:13.679 they didn't like it. They don't think there's any hits 1:12:13.680 --> 1:12:15.280 on here. They said, go back and cut a hit 1:12:15.360 --> 1:12:19.479 and then come play it for us. And we were demoralized, like, wow, 1:12:19.479 --> 1:12:21.880 I guess we're just we don't reclueless. We don't know 1:12:21.920 --> 1:12:24.439 what a hit is, you know, So okay, they want 1:12:24.439 --> 1:12:26.080 to hit so we'll do a bird's song that was 1:12:26.120 --> 1:12:28.120 a hit, feel a whole lot better, So we'll do 1:12:28.160 --> 1:12:29.800 a hit. You know, they want to hit. We don't 1:12:29.800 --> 1:12:32.559 know what a hit is. Obviously, we put that on there, 1:12:32.680 --> 1:12:36.360 and then in the meantime there was some Wilbery's action 1:12:36.600 --> 1:12:39.200 and the A and R department and m c A 1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:41.800 completely turned over. Everybody had left. There was a new 1:12:41.840 --> 1:12:44.880 group in there. So then we went back in with 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:48.160 the same record and play it for him. This this 1:12:48.240 --> 1:12:50.960 record is six six, six hits deep, you know, and 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:53.200 it's like a whole different gang, and they totally got it. 1:12:53.960 --> 1:12:55.600 So we're just sitting back, Well, what the fund do 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:57.320 we know? You know? Good? I hope, I hope it's 1:12:57.320 --> 1:13:00.120 a hit, you know, And of course it was. But 1:13:00.160 --> 1:13:03.680 that's that's that's the movie business. I know. From inside 1:13:03.680 --> 1:13:07.679 that building, they hoped that record never came out because 1:13:07.720 --> 1:13:12.240 the deal was so rich, and then ultimately came out 1:13:12.320 --> 1:13:14.120 it was, you know, a gigantic hit, which was a 1:13:14.160 --> 1:13:17.479 surprise to them. Now one thing that really blows my 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:22.080 that blows my mind, both my mind is stan Lynch 1:13:22.160 --> 1:13:25.639 gets excise from the band, but he ends up working 1:13:25.680 --> 1:13:29.240 with Henley and then you're working with Henley. You know 1:13:30.160 --> 1:13:32.720 do your cross paths? You know, how does that all 1:13:32.760 --> 1:13:37.120 go down? It's just incestuous. I don't know, it's just 1:13:37.280 --> 1:13:40.280 you know, paths cross and I've since recently, I was 1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:42.640 doing a tour with my band, The Dirty Knobs, and 1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:45.360 my drummer had a commitment and I had Stan come 1:13:45.360 --> 1:13:47.720 back in and do a month's worth of days with 1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:50.679 me and we reconnected. It was beautiful. I really missed 1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:54.880 playing with him, but yeah, he ended up working with Don. 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:57.320 I worked with Don and Da Da Da. I don't know, 1:13:58.240 --> 1:14:00.639 it's just l a music scene. He know, you crossed 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:03.760 paths and somebody says you want to do this, Okay, 1:14:03.840 --> 1:14:05.400 let's try it, and the next thing you know, you're 1:14:05.439 --> 1:14:08.599 into it. You know. So the Greatest Hits album comes out? 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:12.160 Whose idea is it to do something in the air. 1:14:16.320 --> 1:14:21.040 It had to be Tom because we did Mary James 1:14:21.080 --> 1:14:24.000 Last Dance, which is a new song. We did discuss like, 1:14:24.000 --> 1:14:25.800 if we're gonna play out the greatest Hits, let's at 1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:28.040 least put a new song that might be a hit, 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:31.479 a new hit, so we're not just read regurgitating the 1:14:31.479 --> 1:14:34.760 old stuff. And Tom wrote that great song. You know, 1:14:34.800 --> 1:14:37.080 Mary James Last Dance, and then we needed another one 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:39.800 for the B side, and he just I think it 1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:41.960 was him, He said, let's just try that Thurner clap 1:14:42.040 --> 1:14:46.599 new one song, excuse me, and we we recorded those 1:14:46.640 --> 1:14:51.000 two songs for that album, and Lo and behold, Mary 1:14:51.080 --> 1:14:54.240 james Last Dance is one of our biggest songs. That's 1:14:54.320 --> 1:14:58.520 Lucky again. He's phenomenal. I mean, the song is phenomenal. 1:14:58.600 --> 1:15:01.320 How much is the guitar part yours or how much 1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:05.080 was that in the original demo he brought on Mary 1:15:05.160 --> 1:15:08.919 Jay's Last Dance. It's kind of both of us, uh 1:15:09.160 --> 1:15:13.400 Dann down down. We both played that together. I think 1:15:13.400 --> 1:15:15.280 he had the first idea for it, and then I 1:15:15.320 --> 1:15:20.280 did my uh arrangement of it, and I think at 1:15:20.320 --> 1:15:23.679 the end, let Tom play a little Chuck Barriers solo 1:15:23.760 --> 1:15:26.240 on it. I played the middle solo. It was a 1:15:26.920 --> 1:15:29.000 I think he had the original idea of the riff, 1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:30.680 but it was kind of a group effort to make 1:15:30.720 --> 1:15:32.960 it say on the way that it did. And Stan 1:15:33.040 --> 1:15:34.760 played on that record. That was the last thing we 1:15:34.800 --> 1:15:39.080 did with him, I guess. So how did you feel 1:15:39.200 --> 1:15:45.519 when the centuries changed? Napster comes along? Suddenly rock is 1:15:45.600 --> 1:15:48.880 no longer the dominant format. What was that Your perspective 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:53.599 on all that, Well, it's the same as is now. 1:15:54.479 --> 1:15:57.639 Who the funk knows? You know, it's a crazy business, 1:15:57.680 --> 1:15:59.920 you know. I remember when the uh, during the empty 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:02.479 V days, there's a point there where video games became 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:05.240 real popular, and like, video games are gonna take over. 1:16:05.280 --> 1:16:06.840 There'll be no more rock and roll music. It's all 1:16:06.840 --> 1:16:09.800 about video games. That's when we did that. You got 1:16:09.880 --> 1:16:15.760 Lucky video, He beats the video the game Shane to 1:16:15.800 --> 1:16:18.160 death because we were making a statement against all that. So, 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:22.280 I don't know. Throughout the decades, the business just mismorphed, 1:16:22.320 --> 1:16:26.320 you know. It's like and now it's streaming and vinyls 1:16:26.360 --> 1:16:29.320 coming back a little bit. Cassettes are coming back a 1:16:29.360 --> 1:16:35.160 little bit, but CDs are hanging in there, but they're streaming, 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:37.559 and who knows how you don't really get paid as 1:16:37.600 --> 1:16:40.120 you should on streaming. I'm not really deep into it, 1:16:41.240 --> 1:16:45.760 but I know that it's always changing, you know, and uh, 1:16:45.960 --> 1:16:48.000 I have no control over it. I'm just gonna make 1:16:48.040 --> 1:16:51.560 the music and hope that somebody will pay me for eventually. 1:16:52.040 --> 1:16:55.120 So you accept these changes because a lot of people 1:16:55.240 --> 1:17:00.360 of our age you were successful, resisted these changes. Well, 1:17:00.400 --> 1:17:02.320 what good does it do you to resist that? You know, 1:17:02.400 --> 1:17:04.679 you can't stop it. The genies out of the bottle, 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:07.840 you know. I just look at it like that's gonna 1:17:07.880 --> 1:17:10.120 be what it's gonna be. Ill probably changed, you know, 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:13.320 eight times more before I die. But I'm just gonna 1:17:13.360 --> 1:17:15.880 make the music, you know, and somebody will find a 1:17:15.920 --> 1:17:18.200 way to to put it out and I can always 1:17:18.240 --> 1:17:21.640 play live. But there's no point agonizing over it. I mean, 1:17:21.680 --> 1:17:24.080 just it's a little weird at first when it seemed like, well, 1:17:24.120 --> 1:17:27.120 nobody's buying records anymore, nobody's buying CDs anymore, and it's 1:17:27.120 --> 1:17:30.080 all free on the internet, and that was like, it's 1:17:30.120 --> 1:17:32.800 kind of weird. But what can you do, you know, 1:17:32.800 --> 1:17:34.960 it's the wild West. You just, you know, keep making 1:17:35.000 --> 1:17:37.960 your music and hope that the powers that be will 1:17:37.960 --> 1:17:40.880 find it a channel for it. You know. Playing the 1:17:40.920 --> 1:17:45.720 Super Bowl good or bad experience. It was a great experience. 1:17:45.760 --> 1:17:48.680 It was. It was bad for me because I I 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:51.240 had a mishap with my back. I was in so 1:17:51.320 --> 1:17:53.160 much pain. I pulled my lower back. I had to 1:17:53.200 --> 1:17:55.880 take like six ad bill to get through the show. 1:17:55.960 --> 1:18:00.160 But it was very stressful, but it was great. And 1:18:00.400 --> 1:18:02.040 what was great about for me too, is it was 1:18:02.080 --> 1:18:04.400 on my birthday, as it turned out, and my all 1:18:04.439 --> 1:18:07.160 my kids were there. So dad was playing at the 1:18:07.200 --> 1:18:09.639 Super Bowl. You know, I'm up there with my ad like, well, 1:18:09.680 --> 1:18:11.840 I can get through here. But I was proud because 1:18:11.920 --> 1:18:16.200 my my family was there cheering for me. And it's 1:18:16.240 --> 1:18:18.040 you know, the NFL. I mean that's a big that's 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.840 a big monster, and there was a lot of people. 1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:24.040 But it was exciting. I actually enjoyed it. A lot 1:18:24.120 --> 1:18:29.080 of preparation, a lot of work. What was the preparation, Well, 1:18:30.120 --> 1:18:32.800 we had to learn the songs and uh, figure out 1:18:32.880 --> 1:18:36.600 the staging and this and that, and uh, you know, 1:18:36.720 --> 1:18:40.839 be at our best and just you know, the NFL, 1:18:40.920 --> 1:18:42.840 they're just they're just you know, slave drivers. You know, 1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:44.400 they had their rules we had to follow and this 1:18:44.479 --> 1:18:45.960 and that. I don't want to get into it, but 1:18:46.560 --> 1:18:48.559 it was a lot of work, but it paid off 1:18:48.560 --> 1:18:50.320 and it's over. You know, you do like weeks of 1:18:50.360 --> 1:18:52.360 work to get it to try to be this one 1:18:52.439 --> 1:18:55.120 moment you get ninety million people around the world, six 1:18:55.120 --> 1:18:59.760 minutes is over. Okay, Well there it was, but I 1:18:59.760 --> 1:19:02.320 think did as well. It raised our profile a little bit. 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:05.639 You know, so you have the final tour with Tom. 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:08.040 You know, there's a lot of stuff written in retrospect. 1:19:08.160 --> 1:19:10.880 He was in pain. He was doing it for everybody else. 1:19:11.680 --> 1:19:14.599 Did you have any foreshadowing or this was just another 1:19:14.680 --> 1:19:19.360 tour in your particular mind. He was not doing it 1:19:19.400 --> 1:19:22.840 for everybody else. He was doing it for himself. He 1:19:22.960 --> 1:19:25.360 told me, you know, straight to my face, Look, you know, 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:27.880 I've got some issues, a little bit of pain. But 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:29.920 you know, throughout his whole career he had this kind 1:19:29.920 --> 1:19:31.840 of pain or that kind of pain. And so I 1:19:31.880 --> 1:19:33.840 just thought, well, yeah, he said, just dealing with some stuff. 1:19:33.920 --> 1:19:35.800 You're getting older. And he said, he said, but I'm 1:19:35.800 --> 1:19:37.240 gonna do this tour if I have to sit in 1:19:37.280 --> 1:19:39.840 a wheelchair, because I want to do it, you know. 1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:42.439 And so it's like, okay, if you're that gung ho, 1:19:42.920 --> 1:19:44.800 I'm not going to question You'll be there for you, 1:19:44.800 --> 1:19:47.400 you know, ste it. And so he wanted it, and 1:19:47.439 --> 1:19:50.559 he wasn't doing it for anybody else but himself. And 1:19:50.840 --> 1:19:53.120 did he have a foreshadowing? I don't think. So it 1:19:53.200 --> 1:19:55.679 was a mishap. I just to sit. We had talked 1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:58.160 about what we're gonna do next. We're gonna do with 1:19:58.160 --> 1:20:00.760 some more gigs, make another record, put out the film 1:20:00.760 --> 1:20:04.320 We're Live, and just keep on going like we always did. Uh. 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.600 So there was no foreshadowing that this was going to 1:20:06.720 --> 1:20:10.840 be the last time we ever play. And the paint thing, 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:12.640 I knew he was, you know, dealing with it, and 1:20:12.720 --> 1:20:15.799 he had to take some paint colors. But he'd always 1:20:15.800 --> 1:20:18.479 had stuff throughout all the years, you know, his voice 1:20:18.520 --> 1:20:20.120 would go out and he had to take a steroid 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:22.920 shot for the gig or this, or his hip was 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:25.519 bothering and his knee was bothering. So to me, it 1:20:25.560 --> 1:20:27.120 was just like, oh, well, it's just another aches and 1:20:27.120 --> 1:20:29.280 pains along the way, you know. That's the way that 1:20:29.479 --> 1:20:32.200 we all looked at it. How did you find out 1:20:32.880 --> 1:20:36.600 that he was rushed to the hospital. I got the 1:20:36.640 --> 1:20:39.360 phone call from his daughter like four in the morning, 1:20:40.439 --> 1:20:45.559 and uh, I was shocked, you know, and stunned, it's 1:20:45.600 --> 1:20:48.439 the best word I can think of. I rushed down there, 1:20:48.479 --> 1:20:50.439 but he was already kind of on life support at 1:20:50.439 --> 1:20:52.360 that point. But I had a moment to just sit 1:20:52.400 --> 1:20:53.679 and talk to him. I don't know if he heard 1:20:53.680 --> 1:20:56.519 me or not. I think he probably did, but he 1:20:56.560 --> 1:21:00.880 didn't respond. It was just horrible. He should still be 1:21:00.920 --> 1:21:05.439 here except for a mishap, um misjudgment of this this 1:21:05.439 --> 1:21:09.559 this medication or that medication that was a cloudy decision 1:21:09.800 --> 1:21:14.040 at some point that uh worked against him, or else 1:21:14.120 --> 1:21:18.400 he'd still be here. So this all goes down shockingly, 1:21:19.360 --> 1:21:22.640 And are you stunned and can't play guitar or you 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:27.040 go back to your routine? How do you metabolize this 1:21:27.240 --> 1:21:32.400 terrible event? No, the music is always a place to 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:36.280 go in good times were bad times that it's a 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:38.280 safe place. I can pick up the guitar and I 1:21:38.320 --> 1:21:41.639 can ease my pain or I can celebrate my joy, 1:21:41.760 --> 1:21:44.479 you know. So I certainly never stopped playing guitar, and 1:21:44.520 --> 1:21:46.640 never even once a question that I wouldn't keep on 1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:52.400 making music. But you know, it's something like that, I'm 1:21:52.400 --> 1:21:54.799 still greeting. I'll be greeting the rest of my life, 1:21:54.840 --> 1:21:59.680 you know. Uh, that's how big it was. But I 1:21:59.760 --> 1:22:01.960 can't just quit, you know, I've got to have my music. 1:22:02.000 --> 1:22:04.280 I gotta carry on. And I think probably what he 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:08.200 would do it was the other way around. So no, 1:22:09.320 --> 1:22:11.720 you know, I had a couple of days of cloudiness, 1:22:11.720 --> 1:22:13.439 but then I just pick up the guitar and soothe 1:22:13.439 --> 1:22:23.080 my soul, you know, like I always do. So how 1:22:23.080 --> 1:22:28.439 did the Fleetwood Mac thing come together? Out of the blue? Uh? 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:32.479 I was planning on just getting ready to record my 1:22:32.640 --> 1:22:34.680 album with the Dirty Knobs, and we were going to 1:22:34.800 --> 1:22:36.920 record it and you know, do what we're doing now. 1:22:37.720 --> 1:22:39.720 And I got a phone call. I think it was 1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:43.000 on my birthday again, and Mick called me and said, uh, 1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:47.240 that Lindsay's left the band and would you like to join, 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:51.639 you know, And Uh, I said, give me twenty four 1:22:51.680 --> 1:22:53.719 hours to think about it, because it was a big decision. 1:22:54.520 --> 1:22:56.240 I thought they wanted to make a record and you know, 1:22:56.520 --> 1:22:59.520 but it turns out they had a bunch of tour requirements, 1:23:00.560 --> 1:23:02.439 which so I signed on for that. I thought it 1:23:02.520 --> 1:23:05.400 over and I have nothing but the greatest respect for Lindsay. 1:23:05.439 --> 1:23:08.920 And it was a little awkward for me to learn 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:12.919 someone else's guitar parts, but those songs really do require 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:15.200 those parts that need to be played. I did the 1:23:15.240 --> 1:23:17.559 best I could, and I think I honored them well. 1:23:18.640 --> 1:23:20.240 And of course I'm not here, and I did it 1:23:20.280 --> 1:23:22.280 my own way, but I did it as close to 1:23:22.360 --> 1:23:25.120 the songs I thought I could get it. And it 1:23:25.200 --> 1:23:28.840 was a great tour and uh, my wife went with me. 1:23:28.960 --> 1:23:30.719 We saw the world in a year and a half, 1:23:30.760 --> 1:23:34.799 and unfortunately the Knobs waited for me. They were curacious 1:23:34.920 --> 1:23:37.200 enough to let me have this moment and it was 1:23:37.400 --> 1:23:40.519 you know, the Fleetwood Mac treated me really good, you know, 1:23:40.560 --> 1:23:45.960 in always and it was a lot of fun. And uh, 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:47.720 now it's over. You know, it's like, I guess that's 1:23:47.720 --> 1:23:50.400 something that happened in the past. So weird, how time 1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:53.040 does that. So when Mick gets ahold of you, was 1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:58.479 deal Finn already in No, No, they were, we were, 1:23:59.000 --> 1:24:02.559 they asked me, and then we were throwing We were 1:24:02.600 --> 1:24:05.400 having sessions to talk about who could we get, you know, 1:24:05.479 --> 1:24:08.960 and who would be a good singer. And uh, it 1:24:09.000 --> 1:24:11.800 turns out Mick new Neil and I was in Hawaii 1:24:11.880 --> 1:24:14.240 rehearsing with them, and so we called him in and 1:24:14.400 --> 1:24:17.360 he came up from New Zealand and he and I 1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:20.680 got along great and he was a great fill in. 1:24:20.800 --> 1:24:22.120 You know, he did a great job. It was a 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:24.880 tough spot to stand there and sing those songs, harder 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:26.799 than me for to have to play the guitar parts, 1:24:27.840 --> 1:24:31.559 but he did great and I love the guy. So 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:33.920 what was the difference, if any, being on the stage 1:24:33.920 --> 1:24:38.479 with Fleetwood Mac as opposed to Petty, well, I wasn't 1:24:38.479 --> 1:24:40.840 playing my own songs. That was awkward for me to 1:24:40.880 --> 1:24:43.479 not play songs I wrote or that I'm involved with 1:24:43.520 --> 1:24:47.080 the records. It was new, uh to me to be 1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:49.680 up there and playing you know, their songs, although they 1:24:49.720 --> 1:24:51.840 did let me do uh oh, well, I got to 1:24:51.840 --> 1:24:54.080 sing that one, which is really fun. I got to 1:24:54.080 --> 1:24:56.920 sing in the arena for the first time. Not much 1:24:56.920 --> 1:24:59.360 singing on that song, but still I got to do it. 1:25:00.240 --> 1:25:03.679 And uh, aside from that, it was, you know, business 1:25:03.720 --> 1:25:06.160 as usual, you know, they they travel first class, was 1:25:06.320 --> 1:25:08.640 we had the private plane as the Heartbreakers did, and 1:25:08.720 --> 1:25:12.519 all the nice hotels and big gigs and you know, 1:25:12.520 --> 1:25:14.960 a great crew, and it was just kind of like 1:25:15.000 --> 1:25:17.880 walking off the stage under that stage, except I'm playing 1:25:17.920 --> 1:25:20.760 their songs instead of mine, you know, and the audience 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:25.320 is similar or more passive, more enthusiastics. No, they're pretty similar. 1:25:25.400 --> 1:25:29.320 I mean, they love Stevie. Every time she would walk out, 1:25:29.360 --> 1:25:32.960 they would go crazy, you know. Uh, you know, a 1:25:33.000 --> 1:25:35.559 big crowd like that. It's just such a big mob 1:25:35.640 --> 1:25:38.080 of noise, you know it all. I never thought about 1:25:38.120 --> 1:25:40.240 it being different. It just seemed like they're they're digging it, 1:25:40.280 --> 1:25:44.360 they're Loud, same as usual. So how did you end 1:25:44.439 --> 1:25:47.200 up working with Stevie to begin with? On Bella Donna 1:25:47.360 --> 1:25:51.000 was at an irving connection. Yeah, yeah, well, Ivan had 1:25:51.040 --> 1:25:53.280 We had two song stop Dragging My Heart Around, which 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:58.120 I had written with Tom that for some reason, Jimmy's 1:25:58.160 --> 1:26:01.120 heard it as uh a duet, which I think he 1:26:01.200 --> 1:26:03.200 was right. It's a great duet song, and he was 1:26:03.280 --> 1:26:07.760 doing Stevie's records, so he convinced Tom to let her 1:26:07.840 --> 1:26:11.040 have that song without asking me. I thought I would 1:26:11.040 --> 1:26:15.160 have agreed with it, you know, but uh, and you know, 1:26:15.280 --> 1:26:17.519 and so I get to know her through that and 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:19.759 we you know, over the years we've written some songs 1:26:19.840 --> 1:26:23.680 and we have a great relationship. I love her and 1:26:23.760 --> 1:26:25.599 so the tour end. Do you ever hear from Mick 1:26:25.680 --> 1:26:28.600 or any of those people again? Yeah, I I occasionally 1:26:28.760 --> 1:26:32.479 we talk now and then I'm not lately in a while. 1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:35.160 I haven't talked to Neil in a long time. But 1:26:35.240 --> 1:26:37.200 occasionally I'll get a text, you know, here and there 1:26:37.240 --> 1:26:39.520 from Mix and hey, how you doing. I'm in Hawaii 1:26:39.560 --> 1:26:43.599 and you know, but I don't really know. I mean, 1:26:43.880 --> 1:26:46.439 we left the Fleetwood Mac project. We had a meeting 1:26:46.520 --> 1:26:49.960 and decided that we would take a quite a long 1:26:50.040 --> 1:26:52.120 break to rest because it was a long tour and 1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:54.519 you know, it was a little hard on Christine and John, 1:26:54.640 --> 1:26:57.519 who were having a little minor medical issues to do 1:26:57.560 --> 1:27:00.400 all that traveling. So the idea was, you know, I 1:27:00.439 --> 1:27:03.400 didn't break up officially, but it was like, let's just 1:27:03.400 --> 1:27:06.320 take a hiatus and everybody rest, and if Stevie wanted 1:27:06.360 --> 1:27:08.760 to do her own tour and get for a couple 1:27:08.760 --> 1:27:10.720 of years to do that, and everybody take a couple 1:27:10.760 --> 1:27:12.960 of years. By then we're all a lot older even, 1:27:13.920 --> 1:27:15.680 and so that's kind of how it's left. I kind 1:27:15.680 --> 1:27:19.280 of doubt that that that'll if it does stir up, 1:27:19.320 --> 1:27:21.680 that it will include me. But it might have been, 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:23.840 might be a shift that's already sailed. I don't know. 1:27:24.760 --> 1:27:28.200 It's not up to me, Okay. So that brings us 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:31.880 to the dirty knobs. So to what degree were you 1:27:32.040 --> 1:27:36.600 inspired to record make records because Tom had passed or 1:27:36.600 --> 1:27:41.320 would you have done that anywhere? Well? I think I 1:27:41.320 --> 1:27:44.760 would have done it anyway, because it's a it's a 1:27:44.760 --> 1:27:47.040 way for your musician to grow. You know, if you 1:27:47.040 --> 1:27:49.400 always play with the same five guys, it can get 1:27:49.439 --> 1:27:51.840 stale and no matter how good they are, and Uh, 1:27:52.640 --> 1:27:55.960 I started recording in the studio with these guys for fun, 1:27:56.960 --> 1:27:58.880 and then we liked it. So we went out and 1:27:58.880 --> 1:28:01.120 started playing a few bars us to try out new songs, 1:28:01.120 --> 1:28:02.720 and I found I really liked it. I like being 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:07.280 in front of the band and Ian. I like doing 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:09.400 my own songs. And I realized that Tom there's no 1:28:09.439 --> 1:28:10.840 way Tom was going to be able to write to 1:28:10.920 --> 1:28:13.439 all of them because I write so too much and 1:28:13.520 --> 1:28:16.080 he was overwhelmed with it, you know. So I figured, 1:28:16.120 --> 1:28:18.280 if unless I did these songs, you're just gonna end 1:28:18.320 --> 1:28:20.400 up in a on a shelf somewhere. So I might 1:28:20.400 --> 1:28:21.680 as well just do them and see what I can 1:28:21.680 --> 1:28:23.640 do with them. And so I started to enjoy doing that. 1:28:25.040 --> 1:28:27.240 And then when Tom passed, I figured, well, this is 1:28:27.280 --> 1:28:29.600 what I want to do, my own songs with my 1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:32.320 own band, and start over at the bottom and wip 1:28:32.400 --> 1:28:35.439 my way up as far as I can. So how 1:28:35.439 --> 1:28:39.840 did you collect the members of the Dirty Knobs? Well? 1:28:39.880 --> 1:28:43.240 I just met them. I didn't I didn't search for 1:28:43.280 --> 1:28:45.679 a band. They were just guys that knew friends of mine. 1:28:45.680 --> 1:28:47.559 It would come over to the studio and we'd record 1:28:47.600 --> 1:28:50.840 for fun, and it just sort of evolved into we 1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:54.400 like playing together and it became a band very organically. 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:56.559 It was not an audition or a search. It just 1:28:56.600 --> 1:28:59.800 they just appeared. And do you have a studio with 1:29:00.000 --> 1:29:02.760 out to the house. I do. I'm in it right now. 1:29:03.400 --> 1:29:06.000 We're I record records here and I've done a lot 1:29:06.040 --> 1:29:08.679 of heartbreaker stuff here over the years. It's a great 1:29:08.720 --> 1:29:11.760 studio and I love it's my man cave. How extensive 1:29:11.880 --> 1:29:15.080 is it, well, it's It's just big enough for a 1:29:15.120 --> 1:29:17.360 four piece band. There's a control room with you know, 1:29:17.479 --> 1:29:21.160 state of the art gear. There's a drum room. There's 1:29:21.160 --> 1:29:23.639 a medium sized drum room, and then there's a lounge 1:29:23.680 --> 1:29:25.720 where I'm in now, which is a piano room for 1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:29.000 guitar amps. And the great thing about my studio is 1:29:29.040 --> 1:29:30.760 because I've learned over the years had to get a 1:29:30.760 --> 1:29:34.000 good sound. My sound is all up. It's tredy to go. 1:29:34.040 --> 1:29:35.679 I gotta do is push a button and the drums 1:29:35.680 --> 1:29:37.800 are on. Push your button, the bases on. I don't 1:29:37.800 --> 1:29:40.400 have to move mics around or try this room or 1:29:40.439 --> 1:29:43.759 that room, and so I don't have to worry about 1:29:43.800 --> 1:29:45.519 the sounds. I know that they sound good and I 1:29:45.520 --> 1:29:47.080 could just go in and start and work on the music, 1:29:48.040 --> 1:29:51.080 you know, and so it's really nice. Does anybody else 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:55.599 work there other than you? Uh? Well, no, I suppostly 1:29:55.640 --> 1:29:57.839 just for me. I've done. I did a Marty Stewart 1:29:58.560 --> 1:30:01.760 record here. Occasionally I'll have someone over and I'll work 1:30:01.800 --> 1:30:04.200 with them, but mostly it's my own songs in my 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:08.479 own band, and it's all pro tools. I do have 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:11.360 pro tools as well as analog, but the analog has 1:30:11.439 --> 1:30:14.439 become so cumbersome that I mostly work on the pro tools. Now, 1:30:14.920 --> 1:30:17.720 the pro tools has advanced to the point. You know, 1:30:17.800 --> 1:30:19.960 when I convinced myself that I was okay with pro 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:23.920 Tools is when Jeff Lynn signed off on it. Because 1:30:23.960 --> 1:30:25.719 when it first came out, it was a little dodgy 1:30:25.760 --> 1:30:28.240 sounding and you could put it. You can definitely hear analog. 1:30:28.360 --> 1:30:30.600 Put them side by side, and you can definitely hear it. 1:30:31.160 --> 1:30:34.360 Now they've got the converter is really good, and it's 1:30:34.400 --> 1:30:36.559 like Jeff was saying, you can blindfold me. I could 1:30:36.600 --> 1:30:38.599 probably tell, but it would be really, really hard, So 1:30:38.920 --> 1:30:41.040 I don't think he even bothers with the tape anymore. 1:30:41.640 --> 1:30:43.200 And tape is hard to get now, and it's just 1:30:43.240 --> 1:30:45.400 like I said, it's cumbersome. And the pro Tools is 1:30:45.760 --> 1:30:49.640 instant recall, and so yeah, I work on that. Occasionally 1:30:49.640 --> 1:30:51.799 we'll mix on the analog just to get some glue, 1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:56.040 but even that's kind of redundant nowadays. And are you 1:30:56.120 --> 1:30:59.439 computer savvy? You can run all this stuff pretty well yourself. No, 1:31:00.479 --> 1:31:04.320 I'm not computer savvy, but I know enough. I treat 1:31:04.360 --> 1:31:07.000 my pro Tools like a tape machine, you know, And 1:31:07.040 --> 1:31:09.120 I have my need console, and I know where all 1:31:09.120 --> 1:31:11.800 the inputs are, not got the sounds up, and I 1:31:11.840 --> 1:31:14.559 don't If the pro Tools breaks, I'm lost, you know. 1:31:14.640 --> 1:31:17.400 I know just enough to hit record and play and 1:31:17.479 --> 1:31:21.120 solo a track or move this over there, you know. Um. 1:31:21.120 --> 1:31:23.000 But I try to look at like a tape recorder, 1:31:23.240 --> 1:31:25.760 you know. That's sorry. I just like I would if 1:31:25.760 --> 1:31:27.960 it was an analog machine. I kind of visualize it 1:31:28.040 --> 1:31:30.160 that way, and that's how I use it. But I 1:31:30.160 --> 1:31:32.559 don't get into the bells and whistles or details. I'm 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:36.000 not that savvy. So how many times did the Dirty 1:31:36.080 --> 1:31:42.080 Knobs play out live before this latest push? Well, we 1:31:42.160 --> 1:31:43.640 used to play quite a lot. I mean on the 1:31:43.680 --> 1:31:46.680 breaks of the Heartbreakers, you know, we'd play, you know, 1:31:46.880 --> 1:31:48.519 for a couple of months. You might play four or 1:31:48.520 --> 1:31:51.600 five six gigs here and there, and then I do 1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:54.080 a tour with the band, I come back and then 1:31:54.080 --> 1:31:56.720 we throw a few gigs together, you know, quite a 1:31:56.720 --> 1:31:59.800 bit over. You know, we've been about twenty years or 1:31:59.800 --> 1:32:02.880 so really that we've known each other, so we're pretty 1:32:02.920 --> 1:32:06.439 we're pretty much a seasoned band. It isn't like a 1:32:06.479 --> 1:32:10.840 thrown together new thing. And how did Klaus Warman end 1:32:10.920 --> 1:32:15.320 up doing the cover of the first album. Well, uh, 1:32:15.400 --> 1:32:18.519 my wife's assistant is a German lady. Her name is 1:32:18.560 --> 1:32:21.559 Alex and she used to work for him over in 1:32:21.600 --> 1:32:24.519 Germany and she we were doing the cover and she said, well, 1:32:24.520 --> 1:32:26.320 you should check with Klaus. I said, as he still 1:32:26.320 --> 1:32:29.080 around and he still works. He said yeah, So on 1:32:29.160 --> 1:32:32.360 her recommendation we contacted him. I never spoke to him personally, 1:32:32.400 --> 1:32:35.200 but the office. I told him I wanted to train, 1:32:35.880 --> 1:32:38.880 you know, and with a with a cross bars and 1:32:39.479 --> 1:32:41.240 a guy on with a hat blowing off his head 1:32:41.320 --> 1:32:44.080 or whatever. And he did the whole thing himself. But 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:46.559 I was tickled to have Klaus Warman's name on there, 1:32:47.439 --> 1:32:50.320 and he did a good job. And how did you 1:32:50.400 --> 1:32:53.840 end up working with George Droculius. Well, i'd worked with 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:57.839 George through Rick Rubin on some of the Heartbreakers records, 1:32:57.840 --> 1:33:03.120 and he always just impressed me with his energy and 1:33:03.200 --> 1:33:06.880 it's nohow but and he such a great vibe and 1:33:06.960 --> 1:33:09.799 he was my first choice. I knew I needed a producer. 1:33:09.840 --> 1:33:11.720 I didn't want to produce it myself. I needed a 1:33:11.760 --> 1:33:14.760 perspective and George was a perfect guy to bounce things 1:33:14.840 --> 1:33:18.680 off of. So that was George's main role, to be 1:33:18.720 --> 1:33:21.559 a sounding board or what else did George had? Well, 1:33:21.600 --> 1:33:23.920 he did everything mostly he put everybody in a good 1:33:23.920 --> 1:33:26.719 mood and made everybody play to their best of their ability. 1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:30.200 But he was also helpful with arrangements. And he was 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:33.439 really helpful with me because I had too many songs, 1:33:34.200 --> 1:33:36.280 and he helped me zero in and well, you know this, 1:33:36.439 --> 1:33:39.960 these these fifteen songs sound like you know, the band 1:33:40.280 --> 1:33:42.200 would be all on one record would be these you 1:33:42.240 --> 1:33:44.639 could use later or something. They're in a different vibe. 1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:47.040 So he helped me zero in on what would make 1:33:47.040 --> 1:33:49.920 a good band record, you know, where everything fit together 1:33:50.160 --> 1:33:55.880 as a package. And uh, he's really good with getting 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:58.519 the tracks done quick. We didn't spend much time tracking. 1:33:58.520 --> 1:34:01.040 He puts everybody in a great mood and he's like 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:03.679 a cheerleader. But he's really smart too. If something's off, 1:34:03.720 --> 1:34:05.800 he'll zero and go we gotta fix that, you know. 1:34:05.880 --> 1:34:09.160 But he's invaluable. I wouldn't want to make a record 1:34:09.160 --> 1:34:13.360 without him. So you make the first record and then covidiots. 1:34:14.960 --> 1:34:17.240 So how did that? How did that mess up your 1:34:17.280 --> 1:34:22.120 plans completely? Like everybody else in the world. Yeah, we 1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:24.720 were all set to go, and then we had to 1:34:24.800 --> 1:34:28.000 just pull back and held the record back, you know, 1:34:28.040 --> 1:34:31.400 as long as we could. And everybody had to rethink 1:34:31.439 --> 1:34:33.360 their lives, you know, and we kind of I stayed 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:37.080 off the road and I stayed home for the first year. 1:34:37.400 --> 1:34:40.360 I didn't want to go outside at all. But I 1:34:40.439 --> 1:34:43.280 use that time to write and uh this and that, 1:34:43.920 --> 1:34:45.400 and you know, things are starting to open up a 1:34:45.439 --> 1:34:48.639 little bit. It was scary though, and plus at the beginning, 1:34:48.680 --> 1:34:51.439 everybody was dying. You know, It's like it's a death sentence. 1:34:51.920 --> 1:34:53.920 And once we got the vaccine and you could at 1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:55.760 least figure out if I get it, at least I 1:34:55.760 --> 1:34:57.559 can get over it. You know, I'm not gonna be 1:34:57.600 --> 1:35:02.120 in a corpse. But it was scary for everybody, you know, 1:35:03.000 --> 1:35:05.440 but we got through it. We just waited, you know, patiently, 1:35:05.600 --> 1:35:09.120 and put it out and we could. I have a 1:35:09.120 --> 1:35:11.880 great record company, BMG. They were very good with just 1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:15.200 waiting and being supportive and sticking with us through all that. 1:35:16.240 --> 1:35:19.439 And have you gotten COVID? I did. I got it. 1:35:19.520 --> 1:35:23.080 My wife and I got it about five months ago now, 1:35:24.240 --> 1:35:26.960 and uh, I had the vaccine. It was not bad 1:35:27.000 --> 1:35:28.720 for me at all. I mean, some people have had it, 1:35:28.880 --> 1:35:31.240 you know. I felt like I had a cold or 1:35:31.240 --> 1:35:33.719 maybe a mild flu. I've had flues that were worse. 1:35:33.760 --> 1:35:35.599 It lasted about a day and a half and then 1:35:36.280 --> 1:35:38.080 my nose a little clogged up, and then I got 1:35:38.080 --> 1:35:39.519 over it. You know, it was it was kind of 1:35:39.560 --> 1:35:41.040 great to get over it. It It was like, Okay, I 1:35:41.040 --> 1:35:43.360 don't have to worry about that I might getting I 1:35:43.479 --> 1:35:45.400 might get it again, but I've already had it, so 1:35:45.439 --> 1:35:48.000 it's not that fear. You know, you know how you 1:35:48.080 --> 1:35:52.960 got it? I don't know. I have no idea it 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:59.280 could have been from try to think. I remember. I 1:35:59.320 --> 1:36:01.599 know we were hanging out with the grandkids who had 1:36:01.600 --> 1:36:03.760 been going to school, but they didn't get it at 1:36:03.800 --> 1:36:06.160 that time. They could have passed it on to us. 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:09.600 But although we were wearing masks and being careful, I 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:11.640 really don't know. It's just I think it was just 1:36:11.720 --> 1:36:13.280 in the air. A lot of people get it and 1:36:13.280 --> 1:36:15.400 they don't know where they got it. You know, it's 1:36:15.439 --> 1:36:19.960 just swimming around out there, so watch out. And now 1:36:20.000 --> 1:36:24.439 it's monkey pops. Don't get the monkey pops. So you 1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:27.000 make the first record, COVID comes along. How do you 1:36:27.040 --> 1:36:30.240 decide to make a second record before you've even been 1:36:30.240 --> 1:36:33.599 out really to promote the first record? Because I had 1:36:33.600 --> 1:36:37.240 the songs and I love recording. You know, I've got 1:36:37.360 --> 1:36:39.280 enough songs for two more albums. I can't wait. I'm 1:36:39.280 --> 1:36:43.160 just December. I'm gonna record another album. You know, when 1:36:43.200 --> 1:36:44.760 your songs are there, you want to put them on 1:36:44.800 --> 1:36:47.040 tape and then as soon as it's a record. You know, 1:36:47.080 --> 1:36:49.160 if if the record company could find a window to 1:36:49.240 --> 1:36:52.200 stick you in there, there you go. But I'll make 1:36:52.240 --> 1:36:53.720 them whether they put them out or not. You know, 1:36:53.760 --> 1:36:57.559 I just love it. I love the process. Okay, So 1:36:57.760 --> 1:37:02.240 if one listens to your records, they are great rock 1:37:02.600 --> 1:37:08.040 records in a world where rock does not have that 1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:12.479 much presence. How do you feel about that? I kind 1:37:12.479 --> 1:37:14.200 of wear that as a badge of honor, you know 1:37:14.200 --> 1:37:18.400 what I mean. All through my career, you know, there's 1:37:18.439 --> 1:37:22.040 been like you know, uh, you know, all the boy 1:37:22.120 --> 1:37:24.720 bands that come along or the hip hop and all 1:37:24.760 --> 1:37:26.920 that stuff, and rock is dad, it's over. It's all 1:37:26.960 --> 1:37:30.519 about you know, rap or whatever, and then that would 1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:32.519 die out and rock is just always kind of still 1:37:32.600 --> 1:37:37.560 kind of bubbling under the surface. And I wear it 1:37:37.600 --> 1:37:39.439 as a badge of honor that we're a rock and 1:37:39.520 --> 1:37:42.040 roll bands and a boogie boogie rock and roll band 1:37:42.040 --> 1:37:45.200 with good songs, and that's what I grew up on, 1:37:45.600 --> 1:37:49.360 and I think at this age I can represent that 1:37:49.479 --> 1:37:53.280 music really truthfully. You know. I hear a lot of 1:37:53.320 --> 1:37:55.679 young bands trying to play rock and roll and it's 1:37:55.720 --> 1:37:59.280 just it's not They don't they don't understand the feel 1:37:59.800 --> 1:38:04.559 I do. You listen to the record to hear that immediately, Well, 1:38:04.600 --> 1:38:07.120 that's that's why we're offering, you know. If that's what 1:38:07.400 --> 1:38:09.840 you like, that's what we are. If you don't like it, 1:38:09.920 --> 1:38:11.840 then you can go listen to Harry Styles. I love 1:38:11.840 --> 1:38:14.599 Harry Styles, but it's got nothing to do with with 1:38:14.720 --> 1:38:17.960 my my music in my direction. But I'm honest to 1:38:18.000 --> 1:38:20.479 what I am, you know, and I know if I 1:38:20.600 --> 1:38:22.160 know from being on tour, the a lot of people 1:38:22.160 --> 1:38:24.400 out there still love that kind of music, and they 1:38:24.479 --> 1:38:26.840 love to hear it from I think I'm pretty close 1:38:27.840 --> 1:38:30.320 to the true source of say Chuck Berry or whatever, 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:33.400 or Muddy Waters or whoever, or even the sixties bands. 1:38:33.479 --> 1:38:35.960 I can get inside that because I was there as 1:38:36.000 --> 1:38:38.200 part of my d n A and so I feel 1:38:38.240 --> 1:38:40.400 I can. I can share this with people. If that's 1:38:40.400 --> 1:38:42.479 what they want to hear, come to me. I'll give 1:38:42.479 --> 1:38:45.320 you the real thing, you know. And do you listen 1:38:45.479 --> 1:38:50.320 to new music or just try? I try, you know, 1:38:51.400 --> 1:38:55.760 but I always get I'm I don't know, man. You know. 1:38:55.920 --> 1:39:00.519 It's I grew up the Beach Boys, the Beatles and 1:39:00.600 --> 1:39:05.000 Stones and Zombies, the Kinks, animals, you know, Jeff Beck, 1:39:05.200 --> 1:39:09.559 Eric Clapton, Michael Bloomfield. I grew up around all that music, 1:39:10.120 --> 1:39:12.640 you know. And so I hear a new band. I 1:39:12.720 --> 1:39:14.839 might be on the on the in the car driving 1:39:14.840 --> 1:39:17.280 and hearing that's kind of catchy. I like that, you know. 1:39:17.360 --> 1:39:19.559 And then I'll get home and I'll tell me, oh, 1:39:19.600 --> 1:39:21.880 I heard this, this this cool song, but and she goes, 1:39:22.000 --> 1:39:25.680 how did it go? And I go, H, well, it 1:39:25.800 --> 1:39:29.519 had a good drum sound back in the day, Back 1:39:29.560 --> 1:39:31.400 in the day. If I'm driving home and I hear 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:34.840 you really got me or satisfaction. By the time I 1:39:34.880 --> 1:39:37.040 get home, I can sing it to you, you know 1:39:37.479 --> 1:39:39.479 the song. I mean, it's just because I'm old and 1:39:39.479 --> 1:39:43.040 I'm an old geezer, but those songs to me are better. 1:39:43.520 --> 1:39:46.280 They're memorable you hear them one time. Nowadays it's all 1:39:46.320 --> 1:39:51.160 production and sounds and and grooves, and you know, I 1:39:51.200 --> 1:39:54.080 don't know just I can't grab onto it. I try. 1:39:54.200 --> 1:39:57.240 I keep trying to find a new band, but none 1:39:57.280 --> 1:39:59.200 of them. I always go back. I'd rather I'd rather 1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:01.759 hear the animals. You know, there are the yard person. 1:40:02.400 --> 1:40:04.320 That's the stuff that I like to, you know better, 1:40:04.360 --> 1:40:06.240 So I go back and listen to old records. I 1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:10.040 guess I'm just doomed that way. Okay, And you know 1:40:10.120 --> 1:40:14.240 we have this whole COVID interruption. But as you've gotten older, 1:40:14.240 --> 1:40:16.559 do you find you stay home or do you still 1:40:16.600 --> 1:40:18.920 go out? I'm talking to not when you're working, when 1:40:18.960 --> 1:40:22.000 you're home, and right, No, we've opened up a little bit. 1:40:22.000 --> 1:40:23.599 And we went out to a restaurant the other day. 1:40:23.600 --> 1:40:25.639 You know, I wear my mask and took it off. 1:40:25.800 --> 1:40:29.000 I was eating and uh, I don't go to concerts 1:40:29.080 --> 1:40:32.080 or clubs but I don't. I don't think i'd go 1:40:32.120 --> 1:40:34.519 anyway unless there's somebody I really wanted to see, which 1:40:34.560 --> 1:40:38.280 there usually isn't. I don't, uh, I don't know. I'm 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:40.479 kind of a homebody anyway. So in a lot of ways, 1:40:40.920 --> 1:40:42.920 the COVID wasn't that hard for me, because I still 1:40:43.080 --> 1:40:45.320 I gotta stay home and work in my studio and 1:40:45.360 --> 1:40:48.320 play with my dogs. Okay, I'm fine with that. You know, 1:40:48.880 --> 1:40:50.680 I don't need the roar of the crowd to to 1:40:50.760 --> 1:40:54.599 feel good inside. So but I'm not afraid to go 1:40:54.640 --> 1:40:59.240 out to a store or to the restaurant or you know, 1:41:00.040 --> 1:41:02.200 I'm not afraid of it anymore like I used to be. 1:41:02.280 --> 1:41:04.000 But I'm cautious, you know, I want to be. I 1:41:04.040 --> 1:41:05.559 got I have gigs to do. I don't want to 1:41:05.560 --> 1:41:08.920 screw up my gigs, so i'd be careful. So what 1:41:09.040 --> 1:41:13.240 are the preparations and rules you use on the gigs 1:41:13.240 --> 1:41:16.880 so that people don't get infected? Well? I leave that 1:41:16.880 --> 1:41:18.719 A lot of that up to the to the clubs 1:41:18.720 --> 1:41:22.000 and the promoters. They have their own protocols for the audience. 1:41:22.040 --> 1:41:25.720 You know, at some places require a test, some places 1:41:26.200 --> 1:41:31.920 suggest a mask. Are our crew at this point of all, uh, 1:41:32.120 --> 1:41:34.600 pretty well had it and are over it. But we 1:41:34.680 --> 1:41:40.160 still wear masks and but we're not you know, hardcore. 1:41:40.360 --> 1:41:43.280 You don't come near me unless you show me your test. 1:41:43.920 --> 1:41:45.240 You know. We kind of it's kind of on a 1:41:47.320 --> 1:41:51.320 honor system around my band and according to the you know, 1:41:51.360 --> 1:41:54.120 the promoters rules. Like with Price Stapleton when we were 1:41:54.160 --> 1:41:58.559 upening for him, he had a protocol every Thursday, everybody 1:41:58.600 --> 1:42:00.960 gets a test, you know, which is fine. We did 1:42:01.000 --> 1:42:05.559 that and then he ended up getting it, so God 1:42:05.600 --> 1:42:09.360 bless him. He got over it. But it's awkward because 1:42:09.400 --> 1:42:14.240 nobody really knows. Are these this is really keeping me safe? 1:42:14.240 --> 1:42:16.960 This is mask really keeping me? Would I get it anyway? 1:42:17.040 --> 1:42:19.439 I'll take my chances and wear it just to be safe. 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:23.120 But you know, I don't really know, you know. So 1:42:23.160 --> 1:42:25.200 that's the way I look at it. Honor system and 1:42:25.240 --> 1:42:29.599 just common sense and uh, I keep in mind all 1:42:29.640 --> 1:42:31.840 the time. But on touring, like you know, I've got 1:42:31.840 --> 1:42:33.559 a lot of gigs book and I've got these gigs 1:42:33.560 --> 1:42:36.160 coming up opening for the Who, and I don't want 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:37.960 to screw that up, you know, So I'm gonna be 1:42:38.040 --> 1:42:41.280 real careful so that I'm healthy and my band is healthy. 1:42:41.320 --> 1:42:43.360 So that we don't have to cancel the gig. You know, 1:42:44.200 --> 1:42:45.960 how did you get the gig opening for The Who? 1:42:46.000 --> 1:42:49.240 And do you know those guys? I don't know them. 1:42:49.320 --> 1:42:52.920 It's it's my it's my luck, man, I don't know 1:42:53.240 --> 1:42:58.400 like Fleetwood Mac the Who stuff is pot Tom these songs, 1:42:58.840 --> 1:43:01.439 I feel sometimes I feel like I the most blessed 1:43:01.439 --> 1:43:04.320 guy on the universe. It dropped in our lap. We 1:43:04.400 --> 1:43:06.880 started this tour. We're playing little bars, and we're moving 1:43:06.960 --> 1:43:08.639 up to theaters, like we're moved up to the film 1:43:08.640 --> 1:43:11.760 where we could play there now headline and maybe the 1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:14.320 will turn here. So we're starting to get a little 1:43:14.320 --> 1:43:17.559 bit up above the CD bars into theaters. And then 1:43:17.600 --> 1:43:19.840 one day I just got the call like there's an 1:43:19.880 --> 1:43:21.960 opening slot here. Are you interested? I said, and I 1:43:22.000 --> 1:43:25.720 addressed sign me up, man. I want to stand on 1:43:25.800 --> 1:43:27.759 this side of the stage and watch Pete Townsend play. 1:43:28.320 --> 1:43:31.240 You know, absolutely, we'll play on before them, and it's 1:43:31.240 --> 1:43:33.080 we're the only other band, so we're second on the 1:43:33.120 --> 1:43:35.479 bill and they're being really nice to us. I don't 1:43:35.479 --> 1:43:38.519 know how we got that gig, just you know, a 1:43:38.520 --> 1:43:40.960 gift from God. I don't know, man, And how do 1:43:41.000 --> 1:43:46.200 you know Stapleton uh. He called me. I had uh 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:49.320 uh scene. I had met him briefly once when the 1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:51.680 Heartbreakers are playing rigley Field and he was opening, and 1:43:51.680 --> 1:43:54.720 he walked by and said, hi, Mike. And so, as 1:43:54.760 --> 1:43:56.759 it turns out, now I'm gonna be playing rigley Field 1:43:56.760 --> 1:44:00.800 opening for him. That's fine. But he called me up 1:44:00.840 --> 1:44:02.679 on a break and said he was writing some songs. 1:44:02.720 --> 1:44:04.040 Would you like to try and write? And I don't 1:44:04.120 --> 1:44:07.000 usually do that because I'm right alone. And he came 1:44:07.040 --> 1:44:08.559 over and we spent a couple of days and we 1:44:08.600 --> 1:44:11.680 wrote some songs together and we became friends. And so 1:44:11.760 --> 1:44:14.280 he he was so cute. He goes like, well, and 1:44:14.320 --> 1:44:15.840 he knew I was putting out a record. I had 1:44:16.000 --> 1:44:18.680 got him just singing on one song, and he's a 1:44:18.680 --> 1:44:22.320 big fan of mine. Uh and uh, he says, you know, 1:44:22.360 --> 1:44:24.439 I don't want I don't mean any disrespect, but I've 1:44:24.439 --> 1:44:26.880 got some some gigs coming up, and if you want 1:44:26.880 --> 1:44:28.360 to be on the bill, I could put you on 1:44:28.400 --> 1:44:32.040 the tour opening. I said, sure, I'll take it. So 1:44:32.160 --> 1:44:34.400 you know, he was really kind to give me those slots. 1:44:35.800 --> 1:44:38.719 And you know, Stapleton is like the great White Hope 1:44:38.720 --> 1:44:42.880 in Nashville, which is certainly pretty white. Have you uh 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:46.360 been invested or checked out the Nashville scene or not? 1:44:46.560 --> 1:44:49.720 And he takes on what's going on there. Well. I 1:44:49.760 --> 1:44:51.439 think he is the cream of the crop. Him and 1:44:51.640 --> 1:44:54.479 Memago Price, who I've also gotten to know. I love 1:44:54.560 --> 1:44:58.360 both of them. I think Chris is we got one 1:44:58.400 --> 1:45:00.840 of those Roy Orbison type boy is where it's just 1:45:00.920 --> 1:45:03.880 a gift. And I've you know, playing these gigs with him. 1:45:03.880 --> 1:45:06.799 I watch him. He just stands there. He doesn't run around, 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:09.040 he doesn't wave his arms. He just opens up his 1:45:09.120 --> 1:45:12.880 mouth and people are enthralled. He's got a gift of 1:45:12.920 --> 1:45:15.519 a voice and a good soul. He comes from a 1:45:15.640 --> 1:45:21.439 very soulful, believable personality, and so does Margot I'm aware 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:25.200 of through them. I where it's a little bit of 1:45:25.240 --> 1:45:28.439 the country stuff. I don't like modern country, rock and roll, 1:45:28.520 --> 1:45:31.920 poppy country. You know. Once again, if I want to 1:45:31.960 --> 1:45:34.360 hear country music, I'm gonna go listen to George Jones 1:45:34.439 --> 1:45:38.719 or Tammy Whine or Patsy Klein. You know, Margot Price, 1:45:38.920 --> 1:45:42.599 I would put her in there. But I don't know 1:45:42.840 --> 1:45:46.240 if any other new artists that that impressed me as 1:45:46.280 --> 1:45:49.840 much as Chris. I think he's heading shoulders above most 1:45:49.880 --> 1:45:51.960 of them. But I don't listen that much, you know. 1:45:52.080 --> 1:45:54.759 I have I have Serious Radio, I have Tom Petty Radio, 1:45:55.280 --> 1:45:58.559 and I have Deep Tracted and I have Outlaw Country. 1:45:59.640 --> 1:46:01.240 So I I checked those from time to time and 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:04.600 if somebody looks interesting, I'll click on it. But I 1:46:04.600 --> 1:46:07.679 don't follow country music per se, but I do prefer 1:46:07.760 --> 1:46:12.040 the older stuff. Okay, what's it like, It's Todd Rundgan putted, 1:46:12.120 --> 1:46:18.840 going back to the bars. Well, it's it's wonderful. It 1:46:18.920 --> 1:46:22.760 is an ego check for me. Um. You know, I'm 1:46:22.800 --> 1:46:25.439 flying on commercial flights in the airports. I'm not on 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:28.519 the private plane. You know, I'm driving in a van. 1:46:28.600 --> 1:46:30.400 I don't have a limo, I don't have all those 1:46:30.439 --> 1:46:36.240 the trappings. But I love the small rooms musically, I 1:46:36.320 --> 1:46:38.840 just and I love seeing the people and I drive 1:46:38.920 --> 1:46:41.840 up and it's it's my name, my band on there, 1:46:42.360 --> 1:46:46.719 you know, and I'm really proud. And I'm really proud 1:46:46.800 --> 1:46:51.679 too that it's growing. You know. We're playing some smaller 1:46:51.720 --> 1:46:55.240 places this year, but we're already getting offers for some 1:46:55.320 --> 1:46:57.679 festivals coming up later. And like I said, the Filmore 1:46:57.720 --> 1:47:00.800 and the Wiltern and some theaters. So my, my goal 1:47:00.920 --> 1:47:04.080 is to get move up through the bars to the 1:47:04.080 --> 1:47:06.720 theaters and I could see who's going to happen in 1:47:06.720 --> 1:47:12.960 the meantime. Uh, I love it. You know, the music 1:47:13.120 --> 1:47:15.400 is so much better in a room of four hundred 1:47:15.439 --> 1:47:18.360 to eight hundred people. Everybody's in on it. I can 1:47:18.400 --> 1:47:20.920 see their faces and I'm can interact with the crowd. 1:47:21.360 --> 1:47:22.800 When you get into the big thing, it's like this 1:47:22.960 --> 1:47:26.120 big sea of of there's a crowd out there. It's 1:47:26.120 --> 1:47:30.360 just a big sea of you know, uh, collage of 1:47:30.479 --> 1:47:32.640 people when you're in the club there right there, and 1:47:32.640 --> 1:47:34.400 you can really, you know, tune in with them and 1:47:34.439 --> 1:47:36.439 they could feel the music, you can feel them back. 1:47:38.160 --> 1:47:41.120 So going back to the bars is really fun, you know, 1:47:41.200 --> 1:47:42.799 as long as I know I'm not gonna be stuck 1:47:42.840 --> 1:47:44.760 there the rest of my life because I am a 1:47:44.760 --> 1:47:48.000 little spoiled, you know, and I want the guys. I 1:47:48.040 --> 1:47:50.000 want the guys to to take to move up and 1:47:50.280 --> 1:47:51.920 get a taste of it. You know, it makes some money, 1:47:51.960 --> 1:47:53.639 which would be nice and make me happy to see 1:47:53.680 --> 1:47:56.880 them make some money. And to what degree are you 1:47:57.040 --> 1:48:00.519 finding that these audiences know them at two real or 1:48:00.560 --> 1:48:04.120 just coming because you're Mike Campbell A lot I see 1:48:04.120 --> 1:48:06.640 a lot of people singing along to uh, you know 1:48:06.680 --> 1:48:08.360 some of the tracks on the album that I wouldn't 1:48:08.360 --> 1:48:11.240 think that they would know those words, but you know, 1:48:11.320 --> 1:48:13.160 and there's a lot of people that know who I 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:15.960 am from the Heartbreakers, and I do occasionally do a 1:48:16.000 --> 1:48:19.000 Heartbreaker song here and there, and especially when I had 1:48:19.080 --> 1:48:21.760 stand on the drums, we did some Heartbreakers songs here 1:48:21.760 --> 1:48:23.840 and there. It was really emotional and people loved it. 1:48:24.640 --> 1:48:26.639 But they love our music too, you know, they sing 1:48:26.680 --> 1:48:31.120 along and there there is it's I'm so grateful that 1:48:31.160 --> 1:48:33.920 they they they're so excited, you know, and their their 1:48:33.960 --> 1:48:36.680 eyes are so full of joy, and I feel like, 1:48:36.720 --> 1:48:41.040 you know, I have the best job in the world. Okay. 1:48:41.600 --> 1:48:45.000 One of my favorite stories is I'm in Minneapolis and 1:48:45.160 --> 1:48:49.759 def Leopard and Brian Adams run a baseball tour baseball 1:48:49.800 --> 1:48:53.479 stadium toward minor league parks, and they switch openers. In 1:48:53.479 --> 1:48:56.559 this particular day, Brian Adams is the opener, so he's 1:48:56.640 --> 1:49:00.599 playing when it's when there's still sunlight out and he's 1:49:00.680 --> 1:49:03.080 playing along. I'm on the side of the stage and 1:49:03.160 --> 1:49:05.719 he turns around to the rest of the band, holds 1:49:05.800 --> 1:49:09.160 up the set list, rips it in half. And then 1:49:09.320 --> 1:49:12.479 I see him literally win over the audience and the 1:49:12.560 --> 1:49:16.400 time that's left to what degree do you feel that 1:49:16.600 --> 1:49:19.240 need into what degree? I mean, when you're top any 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:23.120 of the Heartbreakers, the audience is already convinced, right right right. 1:49:23.360 --> 1:49:25.840 I like the challenge. And uh, it's interesting you had 1:49:25.880 --> 1:49:28.639 mentioned that because on some of these gigs with Chris 1:49:28.640 --> 1:49:32.160 Stapleton and some of the the sheds where they have 1:49:32.240 --> 1:49:36.800 the lawn and the seats. Uh I I remember when 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:38.800 the Heartbreaker used to play those. I used to feel 1:49:38.840 --> 1:49:41.160 so sorry for the opening ask because there'd be nobody 1:49:41.200 --> 1:49:44.000 there and I go, oh, I feel so so bad 1:49:44.080 --> 1:49:46.479 for them, you know. And I was ready for that 1:49:46.720 --> 1:49:49.160 when we started doing these opening shows. But you know, 1:49:49.240 --> 1:49:52.280 I believing or not, a lot of people showed up early, 1:49:52.920 --> 1:49:54.519 and I don't know who. I maybe as a country 1:49:54.600 --> 1:49:58.280 artistist artists bring people in earlier. I don't know where 1:49:58.280 --> 1:49:59.880 they came to see me. Some of them I don't know. 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:02.840 But we were blessed with pretty good audiences. But I 1:50:02.920 --> 1:50:09.360 love the challenge of winning them over. Um and uh, 1:50:09.479 --> 1:50:11.920 I call attention to the fact, you know, a lot 1:50:11.920 --> 1:50:13.680 of those shows. I'll start with running down a Dream, 1:50:13.720 --> 1:50:15.479 I'll go I might camera with the Dirty nil as 1:50:15.520 --> 1:50:17.559 we said, I'm like this, here's an old song, and 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:19.040 so I think I can see them kind of going, oh, 1:50:19.040 --> 1:50:22.439 wait a minute, I think that's the guys in that band. 1:50:22.800 --> 1:50:24.920 I think that's the guy that does that song. You know, 1:50:24.960 --> 1:50:26.920 he's doing it now. And then we do some of 1:50:26.960 --> 1:50:30.320 our songs, and then uh, we have I have a 1:50:30.400 --> 1:50:33.000 version of refugee that I do this like a waltz 1:50:34.240 --> 1:50:37.280 that's a Irish waltz field for the words are real 1:50:37.479 --> 1:50:41.320 upfront and powerful, and I get and the audience sings along, 1:50:42.000 --> 1:50:44.479 you know, and I end a song go and I 1:50:44.560 --> 1:50:47.120 start saying, don't have to live like a refugee, and 1:50:47.160 --> 1:50:49.120 I walk away from the mic and they keep singing 1:50:49.400 --> 1:50:51.400 and I end with them singing the last line all 1:50:51.400 --> 1:50:54.800 by themselves and I say good night. And I love 1:50:54.880 --> 1:50:57.160 winning them over, you know. And it's a challenge, but 1:50:57.479 --> 1:50:59.280 I found I can do it. You know. I'm really 1:50:59.320 --> 1:51:03.200 kind of learning how to tune into them and pull 1:51:03.280 --> 1:51:05.400 them in with saying the right things at the right 1:51:05.439 --> 1:51:08.760 time and the right song at the right time. And confidence. 1:51:08.800 --> 1:51:10.679 You know, I've got my confidence now that I could 1:51:10.720 --> 1:51:13.320 walk out to a crowd that some of them may 1:51:13.320 --> 1:51:16.160 not know who I am and convince them to like me, 1:51:16.200 --> 1:51:22.000 you know, and to what degree to the set list change? Well, 1:51:22.320 --> 1:51:24.519 if it's a dirty knob some of the places we 1:51:24.560 --> 1:51:27.360 play our gigs, and I change it quite a bit, 1:51:27.520 --> 1:51:32.000 you know, on the Chris Staples and stuff, especially when 1:51:32.000 --> 1:51:33.880 Margaret Prices out. She would come out in the middle 1:51:33.880 --> 1:51:36.920 of our set and do the song state of mind, 1:51:36.960 --> 1:51:39.479 what she's saying on our record with us. So I've 1:51:39.520 --> 1:51:41.639 only got five songs, so I kind of keep it, 1:51:42.520 --> 1:51:44.280 and I changed one or two songs here and there, 1:51:44.320 --> 1:51:46.360 but I kind of keep it to what works because 1:51:46.360 --> 1:51:47.880 I'm the opening act, you know, I don't want to 1:51:47.920 --> 1:51:49.720 just go start going deep track. I'm trying to win 1:51:49.760 --> 1:51:52.280 these people over, you know, in five songs. So I 1:51:52.280 --> 1:51:54.320 give them a heartbreaker song and some of ours and 1:51:54.320 --> 1:51:57.240 then closed with a heartbreaker song. So I keep that 1:51:57.280 --> 1:52:00.760 pretty well set. But with my band, we always change 1:52:00.760 --> 1:52:02.599 the setup. We got a lot of songs and lots 1:52:02.600 --> 1:52:05.600 of covers, and you know, I have a you know, 1:52:05.680 --> 1:52:07.680 a handful of heart baker songs I can throw in 1:52:07.680 --> 1:52:09.479 now and then for fun, and I love doing those, 1:52:09.840 --> 1:52:12.519 most of them ones that I wrote, you know, and 1:52:12.640 --> 1:52:16.840 so um it's interesting I found that our dirty Knobs 1:52:16.840 --> 1:52:20.600 songs hold up really well in these gigs alongside the 1:52:21.120 --> 1:52:26.360 big songs, so that's encouraging. And uh yeah. And one 1:52:26.439 --> 1:52:28.519 of the criticisms of my head of the Heartbreakers is 1:52:28.680 --> 1:52:32.439 we get our show not very that much. But I 1:52:32.720 --> 1:52:34.280 so I'd like to change the set, you know. I 1:52:34.280 --> 1:52:36.040 like to surprise the band so they don't know what 1:52:36.080 --> 1:52:39.040 song is coming next. Or sometimes I'll just call an audible, 1:52:39.040 --> 1:52:41.720 I go forget that song on the list, We're gonna 1:52:41.760 --> 1:52:44.160 play this one, and they'll go like, but then you've 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:46.040 got them, you know, you got them tuned in. You know, 1:52:47.360 --> 1:52:50.680 how how hard are you willing to work? How hard 1:52:50.720 --> 1:52:52.439 am I willing to work? Like? You know, the old 1:52:52.520 --> 1:52:54.280 days you start out, you played two It in fifty 1:52:54.360 --> 1:52:56.360 dates a year. I'm sure you don't want to play 1:52:56.360 --> 1:52:59.840 Twitter in fifty dates. No, I'm down. I'm working. I'm 1:53:00.000 --> 1:53:02.080 out there. I told you book a gig, I'll be there. 1:53:02.160 --> 1:53:03.720 You know. I want to I want these records to 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:05.679 get hurt. I want people to know that we're here 1:53:06.479 --> 1:53:09.160 and I'm still young enough to do it, you know, barely, 1:53:09.640 --> 1:53:11.240 But I want to work, you know. I think we 1:53:11.320 --> 1:53:13.679 might go to Europe. Next year and I'm I'm I'm down. 1:53:13.720 --> 1:53:16.439 And my wife and I now travel together so that's easier, 1:53:17.120 --> 1:53:19.280 and she's into it, and we want to go out, 1:53:19.520 --> 1:53:22.759 and uh, I really enjoy this part of our life, 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:25.920 you know, and I want to work hard, you know, 1:53:26.000 --> 1:53:28.240 I have I know this guy who has led Zeppelin's 1:53:28.240 --> 1:53:32.439 photographer back in the film Days, and he said, I've 1:53:32.479 --> 1:53:35.320 been around the world multiple times and I've seen nothing. 1:53:36.040 --> 1:53:38.679 Are you the type of guy who takes advantage or 1:53:39.040 --> 1:53:43.120 you're just going from the hotel room to the hall. Well, Um, 1:53:43.200 --> 1:53:44.960 it depends on how much time. If that I got 1:53:45.000 --> 1:53:46.759 a day off, we try to find something to do. 1:53:47.280 --> 1:53:50.120 The great thing about the Fleetwood Mac tour is there 1:53:50.160 --> 1:53:52.800 several days off and you might be in Belgium, or 1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:56.479 you might be in Sydney, or you might be in Dublin, 1:53:57.000 --> 1:53:58.559 and you got a day or two off, you know, 1:53:59.400 --> 1:54:01.600 and we would go out and do stuff. You know, 1:54:01.640 --> 1:54:04.280 you would go to museums or go, uh take a 1:54:04.320 --> 1:54:07.520 train ride and go shopping, or go out to different restaurants, 1:54:07.600 --> 1:54:11.200 or go out and see the you know, architecture. Um. 1:54:11.240 --> 1:54:13.400 I like to get out if there's time, and I 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:15.200 had as long as I get enough rest and get 1:54:15.200 --> 1:54:18.000 out and and take it all in, you know. But 1:54:18.080 --> 1:54:20.040 I know what he means. A lot of heart packers tours. 1:54:20.720 --> 1:54:22.280 You know. We went through the city and I didn't 1:54:22.280 --> 1:54:24.200 even see anything, you know, I saw the hotel in 1:54:24.200 --> 1:54:27.360 the in the car in the state. But now I 1:54:27.400 --> 1:54:29.360 like to I like to take up the culture of 1:54:29.400 --> 1:54:33.080 wherever I am. We just played the Knobs played up 1:54:33.080 --> 1:54:38.640 in Napa Valley at this beautiful old theater called Uptown 1:54:38.680 --> 1:54:42.680 Theater as great old Pricenium Hall, and we were driving 1:54:42.680 --> 1:54:44.360 through the town. I was wishing we'd have had more 1:54:44.440 --> 1:54:47.760 days off because it was a beautiful little town, you know, 1:54:47.800 --> 1:54:52.200 really parks and lakes and cool buildings and shopping. But 1:54:52.280 --> 1:54:55.080 we didn't have time to take it all in. But generally, yeah, 1:54:55.120 --> 1:54:59.280 we wanna, we wanna, you know, experience everything. Okay, you've 1:54:59.680 --> 1:55:02.520 done a great description of the live act and enticing 1:55:02.560 --> 1:55:05.240 people to go. If for those people who are gonna 1:55:05.240 --> 1:55:08.120 start with the records, tell them how they should get started, 1:55:09.600 --> 1:55:14.640 well by them and listen to them. I don't I 1:55:14.680 --> 1:55:16.440 don't know what you mean. I mean, there's too well, 1:55:16.480 --> 1:55:18.760 you know, there's two albums. We live in an era 1:55:18.800 --> 1:55:22.160 where people have streaming and there's you know, you can 1:55:22.200 --> 1:55:26.280 pick and choose the tracks. Certainly Spotify will tell you 1:55:26.320 --> 1:55:28.520 what's most played, and then they have the albums or 1:55:28.560 --> 1:55:32.920 they're one or two songs. People say start here. No, 1:55:33.560 --> 1:55:35.840 I wouldn't do that. I would just say just just 1:55:35.960 --> 1:55:38.320 dig in and and if you like it, listen to it. 1:55:38.400 --> 1:55:39.760 You know, if you don't like it, skipped to the 1:55:39.760 --> 1:55:41.840 next one. I don't know, that's up to them. But 1:55:41.880 --> 1:55:43.920 I think all the stuff, all all the songs and 1:55:43.960 --> 1:55:46.839 all the albums are indicative of the of the dirty knobs, 1:55:46.880 --> 1:55:49.960 and they're you know, they're all good in their own way, 1:55:50.520 --> 1:55:53.480 you know. And Ian Hunters on one of the tracks, 1:55:53.480 --> 1:55:55.640 how did that do? You can start with that one? 1:55:55.680 --> 1:55:59.320 It's a dirty job. That's a good one. Uh. That 1:55:59.440 --> 1:56:02.320 was that was another thing fell on my lap. I've 1:56:02.320 --> 1:56:05.440 never met the guy, but he was gracious enough to 1:56:05.440 --> 1:56:07.240 just sing. He sent me a couple of tracks that 1:56:07.320 --> 1:56:09.080 he was working on, which are great. By the way, 1:56:09.120 --> 1:56:12.800 up start at the very beginning. How did you make contact? 1:56:13.520 --> 1:56:17.520 He called the office and asked if I would be 1:56:17.600 --> 1:56:22.040 interested and overdubbing some guitar and some new songs, and 1:56:22.080 --> 1:56:24.160 of course I said yes. I'm a huge fan of 1:56:24.200 --> 1:56:26.720 Matt the Hoople and that he they sent the in 1:56:26.800 --> 1:56:28.920 the mail, came over these tracks and might put him 1:56:28.960 --> 1:56:31.440 up in my session, put my guitars on and sent 1:56:31.520 --> 1:56:34.760 him back to him and he loved it. Well, actually 1:56:34.760 --> 1:56:36.320 he sent one. He liked it so much he sent 1:56:36.400 --> 1:56:38.880 me another song. And then I was getting a little 1:56:38.880 --> 1:56:41.800 brave and said, well, would you consider maybe singing one 1:56:41.880 --> 1:56:43.600 of our songs? I didn't think he would, but he 1:56:43.600 --> 1:56:46.480 said sure. So I sent him over the song dirty Job, 1:56:46.520 --> 1:56:48.840 and he'd sing a verse and put some piano on it. 1:56:49.600 --> 1:56:51.200 And I can't wait to meet him and thank him 1:56:51.200 --> 1:56:54.600 in person. But yeah, that's a good place to start. 1:56:54.640 --> 1:56:56.520 If you like Matt the Hoople, go for that song. 1:56:57.800 --> 1:57:00.960 And when you're on stage, it's a friend perception that 1:57:01.000 --> 1:57:03.920 when you're in the audience and you know when you're great, 1:57:04.200 --> 1:57:06.480 and you know when you're off a little bit, even 1:57:06.520 --> 1:57:09.440 though the audience may still enjoy it. What are one 1:57:09.520 --> 1:57:13.400 or two gigs that you've played, whether it be the Knobs, 1:57:13.440 --> 1:57:16.240 Fleetwood Mac or Tom Petty Go that really stand out 1:57:16.240 --> 1:57:22.880 in your brain? Well, Um, Madison Square Garden with the 1:57:22.880 --> 1:57:25.840 Heartbreakers a couple of times there. I was very spiritual. 1:57:26.600 --> 1:57:29.360 Royal Albert Hall I've always loved playing there. It just 1:57:29.440 --> 1:57:33.000 has an ambiance to it, the Hollywood Bowl. You know, 1:57:33.080 --> 1:57:36.000 it's ironic about the Hollywood Bowls. That's the last show 1:57:36.040 --> 1:57:39.440 I played with Tom, and I remember leaving thinking I'll 1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:42.240 never be back here again. And I'm going back to 1:57:42.240 --> 1:57:44.760 open for the Who at the Hollywood Bolts, our last 1:57:44.760 --> 1:57:50.560 show together. So that's a great place to play. Uh. 1:57:50.960 --> 1:57:54.920 Those are the first ones that popped to my mind. Yeah, 1:57:55.200 --> 1:57:57.480 and how about the opposite? A couple of gigs that 1:57:57.600 --> 1:58:07.600 you've been to that that I liked other bands you? Oh? Uh? Well, 1:58:07.680 --> 1:58:10.520 I saw it led Zeppelin back in the Atlanta Pop 1:58:10.560 --> 1:58:17.600 Festival and whenever that was when? Uh, that was impressive. 1:58:17.640 --> 1:58:19.240 I've seen the Beach Boys back in the day a 1:58:19.320 --> 1:58:24.680 few times and they always blew me away. Um. Neil Young, 1:58:24.720 --> 1:58:26.720 I've seen him a couple of times out here in 1:58:26.880 --> 1:58:32.040 l A from time to time. He's always great. Um, 1:58:32.240 --> 1:58:35.920 those are the first thing that popped in my mind. Well, Mike, 1:58:35.960 --> 1:58:37.880 I want to thank you for taking the time. This 1:58:37.960 --> 1:58:40.640 has just been riveting. I could talk to you for days. 1:58:41.160 --> 1:58:45.520 Thanks for being so forthcoming. Thank you. I'm I'm a 1:58:45.600 --> 1:58:47.560 very grateful person and I have a right to be, 1:58:47.720 --> 1:58:50.960 you know, but thank you for your time. You asked 1:58:50.960 --> 1:58:53.240 the good questions and I hope I didn't go off 1:58:53.240 --> 1:58:55.880 on too many tangents, but I think it was good. No, 1:58:56.280 --> 1:58:59.560 you know, digression is a spice of life, and I 1:58:59.600 --> 1:59:02.360 feel lucky that I've been able to have this conversation 1:59:02.480 --> 1:59:05.880 with you. Until next time, This is Bob leff sett 1:59:28.200 --> 1:59:28.240 h