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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left SEPs Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today his guitarist extraordinaire, the one and only

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Speaker 1: Mike Campbell. Mike, good to have you on the program.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, good morning. And uh is it true you

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Speaker 1: only started playing guitar at age sixteen? That is true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't afford one until then. Well, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: about a similar age. And I remember the Folks scene

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Speaker 1: and then the Beatles, everybody picking up guitars. Were you

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Speaker 1: anxious to play then? Was it really money? What inspired

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Speaker 1: you to finally pick up a guitar? Well, it was

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Speaker 1: the sixties, you know, and the Beatles, of course, Uh

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Speaker 1: had a huge impact on me. And that would have

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Speaker 1: been fourteen when they hit the Ed Sullivan Show, and

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Speaker 1: I got pretty excited then. Up until then, I was

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Speaker 1: just hearing my dad's records, which were Johnny Cash and

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Speaker 1: Elvis records, and I like the guitar. But when I saw,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Beatles, it was like, I gotta have

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Speaker 1: one of those. You know. It took a couple of

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Speaker 1: years to save up fifteen bucks to get a little

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Speaker 1: cheap guitar, but that's when the fire was lit. So

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Speaker 1: what was your first guitar? It was a Harmony acoustic

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Speaker 1: that my mom got me at a pawn shop and

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Speaker 1: we were pretty hard up for cash, but she had

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Speaker 1: fifteen dollars and it was unplayable, you know, the strings

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Speaker 1: were so far off the fret board. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: know any better. I thought that's just the way it was.

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Speaker 1: And I just remember thinking, boy, these guys are strong,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so I learned to play on that

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Speaker 1: thing until my fingers was bleed, actually, and uh, until

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Speaker 1: I saw a friend with the Gibson one day, and

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Speaker 1: then I realized, I'm my god, it's easy. Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: that was my personal harmony acoustic, f whole guitar. So

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Speaker 1: how long after that you get your second guitar? And

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Speaker 1: what was that? Well, my second guitar, my dad was

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Speaker 1: in the Air Force. He was over in Okinama, and

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Speaker 1: I kept begging him for an electric guitar, and he

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Speaker 1: got together sixty bucks and sent me an electric Goya tone.

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Speaker 1: I think it was called a Japanese thing. It looks

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Speaker 1: kind of like a strat a little bit, and I

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Speaker 1: learned to play on that, and I was playing on

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Speaker 1: that when I met Tom years A few years later okay,

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Speaker 1: So how did you teach yourself to play guitar? Did

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Speaker 1: you take lessons or what do you do? No, I

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Speaker 1: kind of I got a book that showed you how

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Speaker 1: to make the chords, mel Bay Chord Book, like oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I said, And uh, I would listen to the records

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Speaker 1: and just you know, look at the chords and taught

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Speaker 1: myself by ear. You know, back then all you had

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Speaker 1: was records. But if it was an album, you could

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Speaker 1: slow it down to sixteen. I p s to really

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Speaker 1: hear what the guitar was doing at half speed. And

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Speaker 1: I did that a little bit to figure out stuff.

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Speaker 1: But I was just obsessed, you know. I was possessed

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Speaker 1: to figure this thing out. And uh I did not

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Speaker 1: have any lessons. Although early in my life, when I

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Speaker 1: was in elementary school, I did take accordion lessons. My

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Speaker 1: parents forced me, so I excuse me. I had a

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Speaker 1: little bit of music basic theory, you know, in my

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Speaker 1: back pocket, you know, but the guitar was all self taught.

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Speaker 1: How long did you take the accordion lessons for? I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe until Little League season started about a

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Speaker 1: couple of months maybe, I don't know. Okay, so were

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Speaker 1: you good athlete. No, I loved it. I mean I

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Speaker 1: was a Sandlot sand Lot star. You know, I would

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Speaker 1: get out of school. I couldn't make the school teams.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't good enough. But I just love to get

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Speaker 1: together my buddies and play in the in the park,

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Speaker 1: at the in the neighborhood there and Uh, but once

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Speaker 1: I started playing guitar, that all just disappeared. I didn't

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Speaker 1: care about anything else. So did you find a team

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Speaker 1: easily or did you have to work really hard? Both? Uh,

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Speaker 1: A lot of it came easy. I had an instinct

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Speaker 1: for it, but I worked really hard. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm not making a joke. I would

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Speaker 1: play that thing and my fingers should start bleeding and

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Speaker 1: I had to stop, you know, until it's scapped over

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Speaker 1: and I'm done for the day. You know, there's blood,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I just wanted to learn so bad.

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Speaker 1: I think if you have a desire, you know, you'll

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Speaker 1: find a way to figure out what you want to do.

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Speaker 1: And at what point did you start to play with

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Speaker 1: other people? Well? Uh, a year or so into it,

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Speaker 1: I met a buddy who played acoustic guitar, and he

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Speaker 1: turned me on to Bob Dylan, and uh, he taught

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Speaker 1: me one of my first songs on the acoustic guitar,

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Speaker 1: which was off of Bob Dylan record. It was called

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Speaker 1: Baby let Me Follow You Down. He showed me that,

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Speaker 1: and then Uh, I had a couple of friends here

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Speaker 1: and there. We'd sit in the garage and play, but

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Speaker 1: nothing really uh crystallized until I got to Gainsville, Florida

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Speaker 1: and got in my own little band. Okay, so we're

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Speaker 1: exactly did you grow up Jacksonville, Orlando and Jacksonville and

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Speaker 1: your father was in the Air Force? Were your parents

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Speaker 1: still together? They were to other until I was fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and it was a pretty uh unhappy divorce and the

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Speaker 1: money was really tight. Uh, but that's when we moved

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Speaker 1: to Jacksonville. Cous my all, my my mom's folks lived there.

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Speaker 1: So after the divorce, she wanted to be near her family,

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Speaker 1: so we moved up there and I went to school

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Speaker 1: there and uh eventually ended up back in Gainesville, uh

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Speaker 1: for college. So what was it like being fifteen years

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Speaker 1: old and having your parents have an acrimonious divorce? You know,

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Speaker 1: I think it scarred me pretty good, but it made

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Speaker 1: me tough, you know. I mean, it was you don't

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Speaker 1: want to get deep into the psychology of it, but

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Speaker 1: it hurt bad, you know. You know, that was my

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Speaker 1: whole life. Like I kept thinking, like, can't you just

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Speaker 1: stick together for me? But you know, and I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: older now, I understand how things happen, but it it

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Speaker 1: did a number on me. And uh, I've worked on

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Speaker 1: that over my life to resolve those issues, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it kind of gave me an intention to

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Speaker 1: never do that to my children because it was pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty rough. You know, I kind of felt worthless. I

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Speaker 1: guess most kids that are from come from a divorce

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Speaker 1: get that feeling of like God, you know, and back then,

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Speaker 1: you know, being from a divorce family was kind of

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Speaker 1: a shameful thing to be kind of. You know, you

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Speaker 1: weren't anything you were proud of. Nowadays people probably don't

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Speaker 1: think about it that much, but it was kind of

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Speaker 1: a heavy traumatic thing back then. You're absolutely right. I

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Speaker 1: remember it was really rare in the mid and late sixties. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you say you worked to resolve the trauma. How did

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Speaker 1: you do that? Well? For a while, I went to

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Speaker 1: this therapist, this lady who was really great at helping

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Speaker 1: me work through some all kinds of stuff I was

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Speaker 1: going through, uh, you know, being in a rock and

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Speaker 1: roll band, in my marriage, and we eventually got into

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Speaker 1: my childhood and she helped me see it from a

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Speaker 1: different perspective and kind of mend those fences in my

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Speaker 1: head and make you a little more at peace with it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And of course my wife, you know, she's I've been

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Speaker 1: with my wife for forty six years, and she was

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Speaker 1: very supportive of helping me through whatever, you know, issues

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Speaker 1: I might be going through, and vice versa. So how

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Speaker 1: old were you when you got married? I was twenty six,

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Speaker 1: twenty and then our first child was born and when

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Speaker 1: I was twenty six And was that something you were

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Speaker 1: inspired to do or was your wife pregnant or you know,

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Speaker 1: you're a rock and roll musician. A lot of people

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Speaker 1: love to live the free and easy lifestyle. Well that's

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Speaker 1: a good question. Um. At that point in my life,

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Speaker 1: I was not looking to get married per se. But

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Speaker 1: I wasn't uh repelled by the idea like I had

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Speaker 1: been a few years earlier. I mean back in Florida,

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Speaker 1: I sold a lot of roots, you know, a young musician,

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Speaker 1: and by the time I got out and started making

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Speaker 1: you know, at the time I got married, she was

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Speaker 1: making more money than I was. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: on a deal with Shelter Records that wasn't really bringing

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Speaker 1: in much dough and she was a grocery checker, so

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Speaker 1: she was actually paying the bills. And um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we just kind of connected. Unfortunately, we connected before I

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Speaker 1: was a you know, celebrity or star or whatever. It

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Speaker 1: was just Mike and we have that that special bond

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Speaker 1: I don't think i'd ever find again, because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a different perspective of who and what I am now.

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Speaker 1: So that was that was really good for us and

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Speaker 1: for me. Um, I don't know if I answered your

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Speaker 1: question or not. Well, what inspired you actually did tie

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Speaker 1: the knot? Oh? Well, yeah, she she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess what I think we're gonna. I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be having a baby. And what was interesting is

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Speaker 1: that if I'd heard that two years prior, I probably

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Speaker 1: would have freaked out, Oh my god, nothing, no way,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I kind of sat with it and

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, I think I'm I think

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of okay with this at this point in

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Speaker 1: my life. My head is kind of open to that

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Speaker 1: idea and one thing just flowed into another. Of course,

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Speaker 1: the Spigs the question was not long thereafter Petty and

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Speaker 1: the Heartbreakers start to get traction did and there and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you have that fame that you

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Speaker 1: did not have previously. And what about all the temptations

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Speaker 1: of the road. Well, you know, that was really hard

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Speaker 1: on my wife. God bless her. H here's a new

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Speaker 1: baby shows up. And then I'm off on tour and

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Speaker 1: the band starts to happen and I become, you know, successful,

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Speaker 1: more than we had planned on that quickly, and it

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Speaker 1: was very fortunate. And uh, you know, we would try

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Speaker 1: to stay and sync with each other while I was

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Speaker 1: on the road, she was home with a baby, and

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Speaker 1: it was a struggle. You know, it was a struggle.

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Speaker 1: But I love her and I would always put her

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Speaker 1: in my family first, you know. And the other stuff,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the other party and young

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Speaker 1: guys stuff. I had already kind of gotten a lot

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Speaker 1: of it out of my system. Uh, And so it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that hard for me to to be a good guy.

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Speaker 1: So what's the key to having a forty six year

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Speaker 1: long marriage. Don't get divorced? Okay, I mean, I has

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Speaker 1: someone who's been divorced. I know exactly what you're talking about,

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Speaker 1: but that usually implies there's some heavy moments where the

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Speaker 1: road could go another way. Would you would get divorced?

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Speaker 1: Of course? Of course. Well I borrowed that line from

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Speaker 1: Olivia Harris and somebody asked her once like, how do

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Speaker 1: you how do you keep your marriage together? She goes,

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Speaker 1: don't don't get divorced, but as a as a you know,

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Speaker 1: a short little comment. But underneath that comment, you are

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Speaker 1: going to hit bumps in the road. It's inevitable, and

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Speaker 1: you can get divorced. You could split and go down

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Speaker 1: different paths, or you can sit in there and really

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Speaker 1: look at well, what do I what's really important here?

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Speaker 1: You know? Is this something we could work out together

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Speaker 1: or is it a deal breaker? You know? And of

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Speaker 1: course in my lifestyle and being separated uh on tour

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Speaker 1: and her at home with the babies and coming home

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Speaker 1: and happen to get to know each other again and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that, it was hard and it breaks most

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Speaker 1: urges up, you know, And I can see why, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just lucky that mine held together. And I think

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Speaker 1: the reason is because, first of all, she's very understanding

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Speaker 1: and very patient and was willing to accept her part

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Speaker 1: of the dynamic, you know, and I was willing to

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Speaker 1: meet her on at the table and go, well, you know, like,

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Speaker 1: this is what happened. How do you really feel about it?

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Speaker 1: You know, do you want to carry on together? Or

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Speaker 1: is this? Are we done? And every time we hit

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Speaker 1: a snag, it was always like, I think we can

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Speaker 1: get over this because the love is stronger than this.

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Speaker 1: So is she the product of divorce or her parents

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Speaker 1: stayed together? No, her parents stayed together. U um they

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Speaker 1: live into their nineties. Uh so No, she Uh, she's

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Speaker 1: a California girl, went to Fairfax High School, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I found my California girl. And no, she didn't

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Speaker 1: have that trauma. She had other you know, everybody has

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Speaker 1: her own personal issues with their parents. She had her

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Speaker 1: own issues, but basically they were relatively stable. You know,

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Speaker 1: they stayed together and they they put up with each other.

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Speaker 1: You know, they well we're always you know, I'll walk

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Speaker 1: in the park together. Either. But yeah, well, to keep

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Speaker 1: a marriage together, how much of it do you think

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Speaker 1: was her strength or your strength or both of you

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Speaker 1: were very strong wanting to keep it going. Both, but

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Speaker 1: I think especially her because I really, you know, when

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Speaker 1: I think back on it being home, if it had

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Speaker 1: been the other way around, if I'd have been home

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Speaker 1: taking care of her baby and she was out party

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Speaker 1: and being a rock star and having all this stuff happened,

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Speaker 1: and going to different cities and countries and all the

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Speaker 1: you know experiences that might be going she might be

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Speaker 1: having without me, it probably would have been really hard

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Speaker 1: on me. You know. I give her a lot of

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Speaker 1: credit for for being strong and uh standing by me,

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Speaker 1: you know, and um, and I give myself some credit

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Speaker 1: to for not getting you know, distracted by the the

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Speaker 1: the trappings of of rock star life. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's really pretty shallow, you know, if you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: down that road and be a partier and stuff, eventually,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's not very fulfilling. And how many

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Speaker 1: kids do you have? I have three, and I also

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Speaker 1: now have three grandchildren that are about almost the same age,

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Speaker 1: two twins, and my son has a son. And they're

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Speaker 1: the joy of our life. You know, they're beautiful. And

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Speaker 1: what are they up to? Well, they're almost five, so

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Speaker 1: they're not up to nothing much except you know, drawing

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Speaker 1: and playing and getting into trouble. But they're they're parents,

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Speaker 1: your three kids. Oh, they're well, my my daughter had

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Speaker 1: the twins, her husband's her husband's has a great job

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Speaker 1: as a contractor. My other daughter is living alone, um,

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Speaker 1: and she has a dog in her own place. And

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Speaker 1: my son is married and has a child, and he's

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Speaker 1: a dog trainer. He has a dog training business. So

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Speaker 1: they're all maintaining. And they say, basically pretty happy. So

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Speaker 1: you're from Florida and you met your wife before your

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Speaker 1: success in California. How did you meet her? That's a

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Speaker 1: great story. I don't know if you want to hear it.

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Speaker 1: Tell her. I love telling the story. We met on Halloween,

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Speaker 1: and uh, the story goes. Um. I was living in

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Speaker 1: a house. The band Mudcrutch was struggling with a record

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Speaker 1: deal and everything was falling apart. I was living in

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Speaker 1: a house with out in Canoga Park with a couple

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Speaker 1: of the other guys and they were going to go

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Speaker 1: to a party. I didn't want to go, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I was living in a bedroom with a mattress

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Speaker 1: on the Florida. I didn't have much work for me,

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Speaker 1: but I did have a little car. But they I'll

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Speaker 1: come on, there'll be some girls there, you know. So

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Speaker 1: they drugged me along. Of course we got there. There

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Speaker 1: was one girl and eight guys typical you know, all

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Speaker 1: not taking you know, uh kayludes or whatever. The day

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Speaker 1: party was. I'm sitting there and uh, Marcy, my wife,

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Speaker 1: shows up with her dog. And she was best friends

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Speaker 1: with the girl, Marcia, who was there, and so she

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Speaker 1: I saw her walk in. I was sitting in the

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Speaker 1: other room and and her dog came over to me

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Speaker 1: and connected with me. You know, I was just sitting

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Speaker 1: like this dog was just like we had a bond

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Speaker 1: going on. I was talking to the dog and petting

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Speaker 1: the dog. She walked by and said, is this your dog?

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Speaker 1: And then we started talking and had a great conversation

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Speaker 1: and kind of hit it off. And at the end

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Speaker 1: of the night, Uh, I split. I didn't ask her

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Speaker 1: for her number, she hadn't asked me for mine. I split,

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Speaker 1: and the uh the next day, I thought, God, you know,

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Speaker 1: that girl was really nice and I have no way

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Speaker 1: to get ahold of her. And I wonder if I

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Speaker 1: can find that apartment you know it was it was.

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Speaker 1: I had only been there in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: So I got in my car drove over to where

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Speaker 1: I thought it was it was on the second story,

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Speaker 1: I remembered, and somehow I found the apartment and then

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Speaker 1: knocked on the door and her friend Marcia opened the door.

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Speaker 1: She was on the phone, and I was about to say,

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Speaker 1: do you know how to get ahold of? And she

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Speaker 1: handed me the phone and Marcy was on the phone

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Speaker 1: to her asking her about me. You know, the guy

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Speaker 1: never even asked me for my number. I I don't

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Speaker 1: know who he is or how to go hold of him.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a serendipitous moment, you know.

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Speaker 1: And and so we and we we now. You know,

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Speaker 1: dogs are a major part of our lives. She had

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Speaker 1: a dog rescue business for a while, and we have

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Speaker 1: lots of dogs. So we were kind of brought together

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Speaker 1: by by the dog and and the rest is history.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, growing up, how many kids in the family?

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Speaker 1: And my family, I had a brother and his sister.

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Speaker 1: And where are you in the hierarchy? I'm the oldest,

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Speaker 1: So how many years between all of you? Five five

320
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Speaker 1: years apart, five years apart to the youngest. Yeah, well no, uh,

321
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Speaker 1: I was born, my sister was born five years later,

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Speaker 1: my son was born five years later. I mean my

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Speaker 1: brother was born five years later, so we're spread over time, right,

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Speaker 1: So you're growing up we kind of kid, are you

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Speaker 1: good student, bad student, loaner? Popular? I was introverted. I

326
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: was a pretty good student. I only had a couple

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Speaker 1: of friends, and uh, you know, I had friends, Like

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Speaker 1: I said, he used to play sand lot ball when

329
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Speaker 1: I was younger. But once I got the guitar, it

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Speaker 1: was me in the guitar, you know, and in the bedroom,

331
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Speaker 1: and that was pretty much my social life. And I

332
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 1: was really shy and really but I noticed as I

333
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Speaker 1: played the guitar and got a little bit good that

334
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 1: people were drawn to me, you know, like girls would

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Speaker 1: come up and talk to me, or guys would come up,

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Speaker 1: and they were And my dad told me once, if

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Speaker 1: you learned how to play an instrument, you'll always have friends.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't know what he meant, but he was right.

339
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 1: And so the guitar kind of brought people to me

340
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 1: and brought gave me confidence to be a little more talkative.

341
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Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I was, like, kind of quiet,

342
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Speaker 1: and uh you know, I kept to myself a lot.

343
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Speaker 1: So you go to Gainesville for college. How long do

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00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 1: you stay in college? Did you graduate? I did not graduate.

345
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 1: I went about a year and a half and then uh,

346
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: I jumped into Tom's band and let my tuition run

347
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: out and got a guitar and never look back. So unfortunately,

348
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 1: it was just a couple of nights before Tom passed.

349
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: But he was on stage in the Hollywood Bowl telling

350
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Speaker 1: a long story of how you actually met with a

351
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 1: lot of humor. Yeah, how did you? How did you

352
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 1: actually meet? That is true, That whole story is true.

353
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: You know. He he embellished it with the humor, but

354
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,440
Speaker 1: it is exactly true. I was in the back room

355
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Speaker 1: of this house I was renting with the Mudcrutch drummer,

356
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Speaker 1: and I had seen Tom play with this band. Mudcrutch

357
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 1: was kind of like a Burrito Brothers country rock group

358
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Speaker 1: at the college. I'd seen them and I thought, oh,

359
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: they're pretty good. It wasn't I was more into blues

360
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Speaker 1: and rock at the time. But I saw on the

361
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Speaker 1: bulletin board I saw they were looking for a drummer,

362
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 1: and so I told my friend. My roommate said, you know,

363
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: this band's looking for a drummer. You should call them.

364
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 1: The true story. They came out to the house to

365
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,080
Speaker 1: audition the drummer. They said, oh, our guitar player just quit.

366
00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 1: Do you know somebody? I was in the back room

367
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Speaker 1: with my little Japanese going a guitar and I came

368
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 1: out and they're just like, oh God, not this guy.

369
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: He can't be cool. I had short hair and cut

370
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Speaker 1: off in this shitty little Japanese guitar and you could

371
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,119
Speaker 1: just see the looks on their faces like, oh, how

372
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 1: do we get out of away from this guy? And

373
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: they said, Okay, where do we play? And I said, well,

374
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: I know Johnny be Good? So we played Johnny be Good.

375
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 1: That was it. Their their faces changed completely. That's just

376
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 1: like Tom tells a story. It was like as soon

377
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,399
Speaker 1: as they heard me play, like, you're gonna be in

378
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 1: my band forever. And I was yeah, that's how he

379
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: told the story. So just to go back prior to

380
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,280
Speaker 1: meeting Tom, to what degree were you playing with other

381
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: people and did you play out for money? I didn't

382
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: play for much money, but I did have a little group,

383
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,640
Speaker 1: a three piece group, and we would play for free

384
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 1: at the college and it was mostly blues and improvisation

385
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: type playing and jamming, and so I was getting really

386
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 1: in love with being the feeling of being in a

387
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 1: band and playing in front of people. UM, and then

388
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 1: Tom and and Mudcrutch. We we started getting little gigs

389
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,959
Speaker 1: like at the Topless Bar, the Women's club or at

390
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: the college. You know, we pay you know, a hundred

391
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 1: and fifty bucks or whatever for the whole band. And Um,

392
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: then we got a gig at Dubs topless Bar, which

393
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: happened to be just up the street from my farmhouse.

394
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: I could actually walk there. So we we played there

395
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: for a couple of months, like you know, four sets

396
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: of night and we got like a hundred bucks apiece

397
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,600
Speaker 1: a week, which was like a fortune for us. And

398
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 1: that's when I really assumedly really became a band and

399
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: learned how to play live, you know, hours and hours

400
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: at this topless bar, and uh, pitch grew from there.

401
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,640
Speaker 1: So you say you were more into blues and rock

402
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: this is the late sixties, what kind of acts? What

403
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: were you into? Well, I was really enthralled. Of course,

404
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 1: I loved the Beatles and Stones as much as anybody.

405
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: But I wasn't into the California country rock scene so

406
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: much as Tom was. But I learned to appreciate that.

407
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,000
Speaker 1: But I was listening to like Paul Butterfield and Mike Bloomfield, records,

408
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: and uh, at the time, I like Jerry Garcia quite

409
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: a bit. Um, but I like the English guys a lot,

410
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, George Harrison, Keith Richards and the Kinks, Animals.

411
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: There were so many great bands with good guitar players,

412
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: and I was in thrall with all that stuff. But

413
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 1: when I when I was playing my first band I

414
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: got together, I wasn't really singing much at all, and

415
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: we didn't know any songs, so we would just start start,

416
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: you know, of twelve bar and then it would just

417
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 1: go on for five, five, six minutes, you know, So

418
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 1: we were just kind of jamming mostly. But Tom it

419
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: was cool about his band as they were doing songs

420
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: with harmonies, like three minutes songs with the chorus and verses,

421
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: and I like that. I was drawn to that, like,

422
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: guess that's what I'd really like to do. And I

423
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 1: hadn't really explored that part of being in a band

424
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: until then. So let's just stop for a second. In

425
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: your opinion, and it's obviously an opinion, who's the best

426
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: rock guitarist? Boy, that's a loaded question. Uh wow, Well,

427
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: the best, the most original and out of this world

428
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,399
Speaker 1: would be Jimmy Hendrix. Uh, does that make him the best?

429
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: I don't know. I really like Mike Bloomfield's playing. I

430
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,359
Speaker 1: like Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck. I mean, you know,

431
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,280
Speaker 1: it's hard to pick one. There were so many greats

432
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: back then, but Jimmy Hendrix kind of it was head

433
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: and shoulders, unique above everybody else. He was taken to

434
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 1: guitar places, but he was still good. You know, he

435
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,479
Speaker 1: wasn't just crazy, but he was able to really go

436
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: into places to get sounds and and feelings out of

437
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 1: the guitar that weren't your standard guitar approach, you know.

438
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: And he really was pretty untouchable. So let's go back

439
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: to the band. When you join Mud Crutch, is Tom

440
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 1: already writing original material? Yeah, that's what kind of bonded

441
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: us is. Uh. After we had, you know, played a

442
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: little bit, we said and started talking and uh, I

443
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: think he had showed us one song that he was writing,

444
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: and he, I said, I'm righting, I'm trying to write

445
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: some songs too. He said really, and he said yeah.

446
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I got this. Damn. I didn't have

447
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: any many words, but it was I said, just kind

448
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: of like a Roger mcgwen type song, and he goes, oh,

449
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 1: I like Roger mcgwin, And so we immediately picked up

450
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: that each other was trying to to compose our own music.

451
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: And he was a little bit more advanced than I

452
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: was at that time. He'd already been writing songs, completed songs.

453
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: I was still putting like little pieces together. But we

454
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 1: had that bond right away, you know, writing our own stuff.

455
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 1: And you drop out of college. You ever have a

456
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: street gig? No? I mean in high school I worked

457
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 1: at a burger joint, you know, um greasy spoon, mopping

458
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 1: the floor. Mostly at the university, I got a temporary

459
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: job like shelving books, old dusty books that were in

460
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 1: the room. It was really a boring job. But no,

461
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: I never really had a proper job to speak of. No,

462
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: that's great. So, okay, you're playing the topless bar. What's

463
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: the next step after that? Well, the next step out

464
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: of that is to get away from the perverts and

465
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: try to play a little more nicer places. Like at

466
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: the university. You could get gigs playing in the park

467
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: and you know, a bunch of hippies would show up

468
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 1: with frisbees and you could play. They put up a

469
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: stage or you could play the women's clubs. You could

470
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: play the women's club for a couple of hundred bucks. Uh,

471
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, some bars here and there, and sometimes we

472
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: drive to Tampa or Orlando and play you know, like

473
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: like a youth center or something, just stuff like that,

474
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: anything to get away from the CD bars. And then

475
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: we began to realize that, you know, because also the

476
00:24:58,359 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: thing with those gigs you can play your own so

477
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: songs and the bars. She kind of had to play

478
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: the top forty stuff. But in our on the other gigs,

479
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: we could explore our own writing, you know, And so

480
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,880
Speaker 1: we liked that approach, and we just realized pretty soon

481
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: that you know, this is the direction to go, and

482
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to you know, make a tape and

483
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: get to try to get a record deal and move

484
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: somewhere else where the records are happening. And over time

485
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: we ended up in l A. You know, so how

486
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: long between the time you meet Tom and you end

487
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 1: up in l A, uh, three two or three years?

488
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: And at that point, how often is the band rehearsing?

489
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: How often is the band playing? Oh, we used to

490
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: play all the time in rehearsal, all the time in

491
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: my bedroom or whatever. In Gainesville. We you know, we

492
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: just play and as soon as we got a gig,

493
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: we tote the stuff out and towed it back. We

494
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: didn't have roadies, uh, but you know, we were playing

495
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: as much as we could, you know, and if we

496
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: didn't have a gig, we just get together and rehearse

497
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: and and try to learn new songs or just play

498
00:25:54,840 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: for fun. And at what point do you replace the goya? Well, um,

499
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: that's an interesting story. I wanted and we had gone up.

500
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: We got a gig in Birmingham, Alabama for some reason,

501
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: opening for Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels, if you

502
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: can believe that. So we drive up there and we

503
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: went to a pawn shop and uh, we said, do

504
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: you have any guitars and she said, well, there's one,

505
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: but you wouldn't want it. So immediately the light bulbs

506
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: go on. Yeah, you know, she brings out this Gibson Firebird,

507
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: red Firebird, and it was a hundred and twenty bucks.

508
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: You know, now it would be worth you know, forty grand.

509
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: But I got that and that was my guitar for

510
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: quite a while. And then later on I had seen

511
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: a stratocaster at the music store which was two hundred

512
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: bucks sixty four strat if you could believe that, And Uh,

513
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: I didn't have the money. But a friend of a

514
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: friend had just had an insurance UH automobile settlement and

515
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: she had some cash. She said, well, here, I'll I'll

516
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: loan you the money you can buy the Strato caster.

517
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: So then I had to Gibson into the Strat And

518
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 1: those are my two guitars for quite a wow. And

519
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: what about a namp? I had a Fender. I got

520
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: together enough to get a Fender twin. And back then

521
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 1: you can get these things called electro voice speakers and

522
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: put them in and they had a lifetime guarantee. If

523
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: you blew it up, you can just take it to

524
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: the store and they'd put a new one in for you.

525
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: So that's the one I had. How often did you

526
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: blow it up? Oh, every couple of months, I know,

527
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: three or four months, and one of them would go

528
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: on the fritz and just take it in and haven't

529
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: pop a new one in. Pretty cool, Okay. So how

530
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: many guitars going today? It's sick too many, but I

531
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: love them all. I think I's just sold about a

532
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: hundred of them for an auction. And uh, I've now

533
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,479
Speaker 1: got my guitars and a nice display where I can

534
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: see them all and I can get to them. I've

535
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: got a lot of my stuff is on this just

536
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: carousel that I built in my rehearsal room. It goes

537
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: up electronically and it's got hooks and there's all my

538
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: nicest guitars up there. I push a button, it goes,

539
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: it comes down, and I could pick what I want.

540
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: But I've got a lot. You know, I've been collecting

541
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: forever and I love them, and I used every one

542
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: of them, you know, every one of them has been

543
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: on the road or and on a record. I've kind

544
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: of stopped buying now because I kind of got one

545
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: of everything I wanted. And uh, which is funny because

546
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: back in the day, when I couldn't afford one, I'd

547
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: see the who and I'd get so piste off. You know,

548
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: don't don't break that. Send it to me. You know,

549
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: it's a good, good dog. You're just gonna break the

550
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: neck off of it. Used to used to kill me,

551
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: but you know now I I treasure my instruments and

552
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: they they're good investments. So it worked out. How did

553
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: you decide to part with a hundred, and how hard

554
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: was that? It wasn't hard at all. I had too many,

555
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: and I couldn't remember keep track of them all, and

556
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: they were all in cases and stored away, and so

557
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: I finally just got them all out, and I just

558
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: picked the ones that I don't didn't use all the time,

559
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: and auctioned them ount and got quite a bit of

560
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: money for them all. But I still have plenty left,

561
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, I don't over a hundred. But they're all

562
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: a vantage, choice, choice instruments. So if you could only

563
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: save two, what would they be. Well, one would be

564
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: my broadcaster Fender Broadcaster, which I used on the first album,

565
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: And I guess my other one would be the fifty

566
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: nine less Paul of which I only got about ten

567
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: years ago and I used in the last several Heartbreakers records.

568
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: Those two are kind of irreplaceable. Okay, broadcaster has one pickup.

569
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: Telecaster has too. No broadcaster has two pickups. The esquare

570
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: has one that Oh, you're right, that's what I'm saying,

571
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 1: I'm screwing up. Of course I'm right. I'm a guitar

572
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: play right, Well, I thought, I you know, you know,

573
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: my brain didn't go back enough time to absolutely, So

574
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: tell me about moving to California. How does that all

575
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: go down? Well, it said, we made a movie about it.

576
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: I runed down a dream. It went down that. We

577
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: made a demo tape and sent it around, got mostly rejected,

578
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: and got a little bit of interest from this company

579
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: called Shelter Records, which was Leon Russell and Denny Cordo's label.

580
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: So we piled everything and pulled all our money and

581
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: got been Much's parents station wagon and we rented a

582
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: truck and piled everything in and drove out like the

583
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: Beverly Hill Police, you know, and wound up in Hollywood

584
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: like you know, rednecks from space. We were totally out

585
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: of out of sink with everything, but we had to learn,

586
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: you know. We just buckled down and you know, stumbled

587
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: around the studio for a while the crutch dissolved, and

588
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: then slowly we met up and there the guys just

589
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: formed the Heartbreakers, made our first record, and then things

590
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: started to get better a little bit slower though. Didn't

591
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: you go back to Florida? Well there was a first,

592
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: the first foray or say whatever the word is, out

593
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: to California. Tom went went out with the Roady I

594
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: stayed home. I gave him my fifty bucks, was all

595
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: I had, and they went out and knocked on doors,

596
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: and then they came back. And then we started getting

597
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: the rejection letters, and then we got one that sounded

598
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: interesting from Denny Cordell, and uh, then we all got

599
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: together and headed out, hoping that he would save our lives,

600
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: you know, and he did. So what was the magic

601
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: of Danny Cordell. Denny Cordell? First of all, he believed

602
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: in us, and he saw something that we didn't even see,

603
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: that we had a chemistry and that we were unique,

604
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: and that we had us, you know, some songwriting that

605
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: was better than most people. He picked up on the

606
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: songwriting and on Tom's charisma and on the chemistry of

607
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: the band, you know, and he believed in us, and

608
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: he gave us confidence. And he was really good at

609
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 1: because we were so especially in the studio, we were

610
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: so green. We didn't know what we were doing. Had

611
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: to get a good sound or how to you know,

612
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: play it right, or this and that, and he was

613
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: good was saying, well, you know that's out of these

614
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: three songs. Those two were crap, but this one's good.

615
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: Write some more songs like this, one in that vein,

616
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of directing us like a gurro

617
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: down the path towards our pure self. And that was

618
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: his his main contribution is giving us confidence and believing

619
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: in us and the right advice that we needed. So,

620
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: how long after you start figuring out the studio the

621
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: zero in and you're making a record or you essentially

622
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: making a record the whole time, Well, you're always trying

623
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: to make a record, you know. You go and each

624
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: time you're gonna record something, you think, well, maybe this

625
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: will be on a record, But of course most of

626
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: the time it was just you know, you have to

627
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: throw it out and start over. But you just, yeah,

628
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: we're always thinking of this is going to be a record,

629
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, until it's not okay. And so how long

630
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: after you start playing around as the record done. Well,

631
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: once we got the lineup of the Heartbreakers and Tom

632
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: brought in at the same time, that happened. He brought

633
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 1: in these great songs. It all just kind of happened

634
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: at the same time. It didn't take us that much,

635
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of months to record the first record,

636
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: which we recorded at the office at Shelter Records. They

637
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: had put a makeshift studio in there, and we called

638
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: it the Brown Room, and and uh we got in

639
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: there and just you know, one one or good time

640
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: until we had you know, ten or twelve songs, and

641
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: he brought in like American Girl Breakdown. All these great

642
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: songs just came out of the air. He came in

643
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: with those, and that we had the band, so it

644
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: all started to gel. So what are you living on

645
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: at this point in time? Well, I'm living on my

646
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: wife's meager salary as a grocery checker. I was on

647
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: a retainer I think for I don't know, a hundred

648
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: bucks maybe a week. Sheolter Records was you know, not

649
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: rolling in the dough, so they were kind of keeping

650
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: us alive. I looked back, I don't know how we lived.

651
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: I don't know how we paid her rent and got groceries.

652
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: But for me personally, uh, my wife was at a

653
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: steady job and she was you know, covering the bases

654
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: until the music started bringing in money. And then she

655
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, had a baby and was able to quit

656
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: her job. But we just I don't know we survived.

657
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: You know. It was like kind of when I think

658
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: back on it, I don't know how we did it.

659
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: We we got through somehow. So the album comes out,

660
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: certainly gets some mink that people know know that it's out,

661
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: but nothing really happens in the US. How do you

662
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: end up going to the UK? Well, we got a

663
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: meager airplay in San Francisco, in Boston, but basically nothing happening.

664
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: And somehow, um through the record company and the promoters,

665
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: they got us onto a tour with Nose Loft Gran

666
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: in England. I don't know how they did that, but

667
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: we all went to England to open for Nose Left

668
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: Grin and around around the country there, and uh, the

669
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: press over there for some reason really loved us, you know,

670
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: and so we started to get a buzz over there

671
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: and positive press and that kind of snowballs when we

672
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: gave us a little momentum. When we came back, we

673
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: had a little you know, energy underneath us from that

674
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: tour and we started to get a little more airplay.

675
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: And it was a slow process, you know. We it

676
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: took us a while. We paid some dutes for sure. Well,

677
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: I certainly remember in Los Angeles he started to play

678
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: a live version of Breakdown, and you know, I remember

679
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: it was a slow burn. I remember seeing you guys

680
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: at the Whiskey in the summer of seventy seven. It

681
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: was really starting to Oh that was a great game

682
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: as it was. Uh So, in any event, at what

683
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 1: point do you side, Okay, we gotta make a second record? Well, um,

684
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 1: we always thought we were going to make a second record.

685
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: It was a matter of, I guess this one's done,

686
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: all that's gonna do, Let's make another one, you know.

687
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: And back then the industry was way different than it

688
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: is now, you know, And back then you could put

689
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: out a record or two that maybe don't set the

690
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: world on fire. But if you go out and tour

691
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: and start to build up a fan base over time,

692
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: by the third or fourth record, if things go well,

693
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: your records will start selling because you've built up, you know,

694
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: a fan based on the road. Nowadays it's different, but

695
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: that's what we did, you know. We just go out

696
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: and get whatever. We opened a lot of shows like

697
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: for Ja Giles and Bob Seeger or whoever would have us,

698
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: and we would play, you know, our own shows and

699
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: the smaller clubs like I kind of like what I'm

700
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: doing now with my band and um, and then in

701
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 1: between that we would go in and try to work

702
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: on the you know, songs for the second record, and

703
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: when it was done, we put it out and kept going,

704
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, books and more gigs. At what point do

705
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: you hook up with Tony demitriotus? He was around uh

706
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: early on. Uh. There was a couple of managers that

707
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: were snipping around us in the early days, and he

708
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: was the one that seemed the most honest and trustworthy,

709
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: and so he was. He was there for pretty early on.

710
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: So you make the second album, I mean, the first

711
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: album I absolutely love with Luna, the Wall, One Forever, etcetera.

712
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: The second album comes out, it gets more attention. I

713
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: do not like it as much as the first. That's

714
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: not saying that I don't like it, but it doesn't

715
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: quite break through with the expectations. What was your perspective

716
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: being on the inside? I agree with you. I like that.

717
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: I still think the first record is one of my

718
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: favorite records of all our records. The second record was good,

719
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: had I Need to Know and uh listen to Her Heart.

720
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: You know, it had some good songs on there. Um,

721
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: but we're still kind of learning, and so it's just

722
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: a matter of, you know, more of the same. We

723
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: got a record, you know, a couple of songs are

724
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: getting a little bit of airplay, and we'll go out

725
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: and get some gigs and maybe try to build up

726
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,959
Speaker 1: some momentum and make another record someday, you know. Of course,

727
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: by the time we got to the third record, we realized,

728
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, we got to make a really good record

729
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: now because this is you know, we can't go on

730
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: like this. We need something that's going to break through.

731
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: And that was for the third album was finally we

732
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: we hit bigger. And are you still living on a

733
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: subsistence level or have you ever seen him? Yeah? Yeah,

734
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: we're still getting by on you know, month to month,

735
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: you know, paying her rent. So how do you find groceries?

736
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 1: How do you end up poking up up with me iving? Well,

737
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: it was Cordell actually, uh and his uh great wisdom. Uh.

738
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: He said, you know what you guys need to to

739
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: make a record that's more mainstream friendly. And he said,

740
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 1: I don't think I know how to produce that type

741
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: of record, but I should step aside. We should get

742
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: you a producer that makes records that sound great on

743
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: the radio. And so we said, well, like what and

744
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: he played his so Patti Smith's song because the night

745
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 1: which Jimmy had produced and it had this huge drum

746
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: sound and it just sounded great on the radio. So

747
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: we said, well, can we get that guy? And so

748
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: he came in and we started working with him, going

749
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: for the big sound. This is also the point where

750
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: you get into the war with m c A. What

751
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: was your perspective on that, Well, you know, we're just

752
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: scuffling poor boys, you know. The record company kind of

753
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: shuffled us over to a read other record company. We're

754
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: not making any money and and uh that you know,

755
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: we're not going to give them another record because there

756
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: they don't deserve it. So we just won't record. We'll

757
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: go out and play and we did a lawsuit tour.

758
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: We refused to record for the new which I went

759
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: from Shelter to M to ABC and then m c A.

760
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: And they just shuffled us around and asked us, you know,

761
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: said okay, well we're not gonna give you a record,

762
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: we'll just play live, you know. And then eventually things

763
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: came around and they renegotiated the deal and we got

764
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: Jimmy to produce and uh get over at m c A.

765
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: And it was it was just a I don't know

766
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: as bad as it might sound. Uh, I'm in l A,

767
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: I'm playing in the band. We have records out. I

768
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: was already successful in my mind, you know, I had

769
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: no idea what we were gonna do. But even though

770
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: we were struggling and scuffling and getting by, I still

771
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: felt coming from Gainesville, Florida, that was still pretty high

772
00:39:54,160 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: end stuff for me. Okay, you work with Jimmy and

773
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: obviously Damn the Torpedoes is the huge breakthrough. What is

774
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: his influence? Well, Jimmy. First of all, he brought his

775
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: engineer who got that great sound, Shelley Akis, And it

776
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: was really hard work. Uh, I mean almost totally miserable,

777
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: trying to get a sound, not really knowing what we're

778
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: doing and learning and and you know, they would work

779
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: on the snare drum for three days, you know, and

780
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: then okay, we got the snare drum sound, let's work

781
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: on the base, you know, and two weeks go by. Okay,

782
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 1: now play this song. Well, I don't even feel like

783
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: playing the song now. I'm sick of hearing the snare drum.

784
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: So we had to learn how to get the sound

785
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: in her head from the room into what we were

786
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: hearing that back on the speakers, and Jimmy was good

787
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: at that. He knew what he was going for and um,

788
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: he was driven to make the best sounding record ever made.

789
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 1: That was you know, jim he had and Tom too,

790
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: this vision of you know, we're going for greatness. You know,

791
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: we're not gonna settle for anything that's not better than

792
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: everything else out there. And Jimmy had that drive in

793
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: that overview. Um, and he pushed his hard, you know.

794
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 1: But that record came out and it did really well.

795
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: So there you go. So we're all those songs written

796
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: before you got into the studio with Jimmy, Uh, we're

797
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: songs rejected. How did you end up with those songs? Well,

798
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: we had a handful of songs. We had Refugee and

799
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: here comes to My Girl, which I had written with Tom. Okay,

800
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 1: you just stayed stopped there for a second. That change

801
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: and here comes my Girl where it goes down and

802
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: goes watch her walk? How did that come? How did

803
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: that come together? That's something it's indelible. I tingled what

804
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: I think about it. They called it a bridge, and

805
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: it's very you know, it's just a matter of the

806
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: two chords just going along, you know, and then go

807
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: where do I go from there? Well, how about take

808
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: it to another mood for a second and back. It

809
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 1: was just a little interlude to give those chords a break,

810
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: and that's what a good bridge should do. That should

811
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: just like bridge you from that course into the next

812
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: verse without distracting from the flow. It was just a

813
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: chord really, It went down from A to F sharp

814
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: and it's just something I came up with on my demo.

815
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: So anyway, we had those two songs and some other songs. Uh,

816
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: don't do me like that was in there, but we

817
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: were we'd already tried that a few times with their

818
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: first two albums and we're off of it, and maybe

819
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: a Louis the Enter Reign, we might have had that song.

820
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: But Jimmy Ivan he heard Refugee and Here Comes from

821
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: a Girl and said, I don't care what else you

822
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: guys do. That's the h We've got a record those

823
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: two songs. I don't even want to hear the rest

824
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: of you do whatever you want. We're gonna make a

825
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: hit out of those two songs. And he goes, I

826
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: never listened to side too of any record my whole lot. Yeah,

827
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 1: that's the kind of guy Jimmy was, you know, he

828
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: wanted to business. He wanted it now, and he heard

829
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: the business and those two songs, Okay, we're gonna make

830
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 1: those that you guys make the rest of the record

831
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: whatever you want, you know, which is really kind of hilarious.

832
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: But don't do me like that. We did pull out

833
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: at the last second. We had cut it and put

834
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: it away, and then we heard it. So one that

835
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: was pretty good. We should finish it. And so that

836
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: came out on that record as well, and we usually

837
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: enter reigning a few other rockers and but really it

838
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: was the refugee and here comes to my girl kind

839
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: of carried the weight on that one. So how did you?

840
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: And Tom Right and even the losers even, how did you?

841
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: That's my wife. That's my wife at the beginning, it's

842
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,720
Speaker 1: just a normal noise. Really, okay, that's my wife, Marcy. Uh.

843
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: When I did the demo at my house and my

844
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: four tracks, she was in the other room and the

845
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 1: washing machine was going to took a ticker tick out?

846
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: What is that? She goes, It's just the normal noises

847
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: in here, and so I was it bled into my demo.

848
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: So when Tom heard, he says, we have to use

849
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: that that bit, and Jimmy thought he was nice. He said,

850
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: what's that got to do with the record? Said no,

851
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: but we need it because the two songs were in

852
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: the same key, so that kind of distracted your mind

853
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: from what key you were in, and so she became

854
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: on the record. It was funny, that is. I never

855
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: knew a little aside. I never knew that story. So

856
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: how do you write refugee, which is really the big

857
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: monster breakthrough, you know, how do you write it? I

858
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: don't know, man, it's it's it's it's magic and luck

859
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: and work, you know. I was just I had my

860
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: four track, which, once again, my wife talked me into

861
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: buying the four track. We could it was a t

862
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: ac you know, we couldn't afford it, but she said, no,

863
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: you should buy that. You know it'll pay off. And

864
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: she was right. God bless her. She always believed in me.

865
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: But anyway, I had my four track and I was

866
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: playing around with it, you know, and trying to think it. Well,

867
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: let me put it some chords on here so I

868
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: could play lead guitar along with it and practice my leads.

869
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: It was those chords that I borrowed from Albert Kane

870
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 1: song and changed around a little bit, and I just

871
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: threw a little demo together, uh not mostly for an

872
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 1: excuse to practice lead guitar. And uh then Tom heard it,

873
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: and of course he hit that that lyric and you know,

874
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,760
Speaker 1: forget about it. You know, he made it like eighteen

875
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: times better, and uh it became this iconic song. I mean,

876
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: it's just luck, man, you know, I think about that

877
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: all the time. Where do these songs come from? Hawaii?

878
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: Where did it? You know? How can I why can

879
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: I just conjure it up every day? I don't know.

880
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: It's magic, it's luck, it's spiritual, it's just I think,

881
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: And it's just a lot of just keeping your head,

882
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 1: your nose to the nose to the grindstone, just work

883
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: and work and working and hoping that some miracle will

884
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: happen in the middle of it all. You know. So

885
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: when you wrote with Tom, is that generally the way

886
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: it would go down. You would do something independently delivered

887
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: to him, he'd write the lyrics. Yeah. Always we never

888
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 1: sat down eyeball to eyeball. It seems always seem so intimidating,

889
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: like what do you got? What you got? You know?

890
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: So I would just come in, but well, here's an idea.

891
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: I'd play the tape you know, how about this? You know?

892
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: And he would if he liked it, he would just start,

893
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: you know, I guess, singing along in his He go,

894
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: I'll take it off to his house and come back

895
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: to me and see, I think I got some words

896
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: for that music. And that's the way it always worked.

897
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: It was a great relationship. Did you ever add words?

898
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 1: Did he ever change the music? Occasionally, like those two

899
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: songs Refugee and Her christ m Girl. Most of the

900
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: songs the music was intact. Occasionally he would come in

901
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: and go, you know, I've got this this lyric going,

902
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: and I need a different chord here to to carry

903
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: through with what you've already got. He might add a chord,

904
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: very rarely what I suggest a lyric maybe later on.

905
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: I had a few lyrics suggestions, but I almost always

906
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: left the lyrics up to him. And I would say,

907
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: like a five percent of the time the demos were

908
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 1: exactly the way I handed him to him. Okay, this

909
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: begs the question of publishing. These are gigantic songs. How

910
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: much of the publishing did you own? Then? Do you own? Now?

911
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: We always split everything fifty. Okay, so we had fifty,

912
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: you add five d and you owned it together, or

913
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: there was another party that had another fifty. Now we

914
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: owned it together, I mean until late recently. Uh, I

915
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: don't know what his his stage is done with his publishing.

916
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: But nowadays you can sell your publishing to a third

917
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: party if you want to get all the cash that

918
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna end make over the next few years up front,

919
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: if you want it. But we never did that. He

920
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: had gone Gator Music. I had Wild Gator Music, and

921
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: we kept our our publishing. You know, we didn't want

922
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: to sell it. So it was just a you know,

923
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: a two way partnership. Okay. But from the very first record,

924
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: you and Tom owned the Hunter Present. Yeah that's kind

925
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: of rare. And yeah, well well we learned. See, we

926
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: had learned the hardway. On those first two records, we

927
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: got shuffle around by the company. That's what that lawsuit

928
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,959
Speaker 1: was all about. It's like, you know, you're not gonna

929
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: take our music, You're not gonna take our publishing. Like

930
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: even Cordell and our first deal, he wrote in a

931
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: piece of the publishing for himself, which we didn't know

932
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: any better. But by the third record, we were smart,

933
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: you know. Now we're keeping our songs, you know, and

934
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: you can have the artists, you know, a piece of

935
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: the artist record royalties, but the songs belong to us,

936
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: and that's mostly Tom. Tom was very astute businessman. And

937
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: did you ever get the pieces back from the first

938
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: two records? We did? We did eventually buy them back.

939
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: I forget, probably twenty years ago or something. It became

940
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: available when we bought them back, so we owned it

941
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 1: all now. And what what about you selling it to

942
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: hypnosis or primary wave or something. Well, I'll have to

943
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: be really hard up for cash to do that. Um.

944
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: I think I recently did it. My wife is the

945
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: businesswoman in the partnership. I think we did a temporary

946
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: deal where we wanted to buy some property and we

947
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: did like, okay, well you give us an advance for

948
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 1: you know, I think it was four years or something,

949
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: and then after the four years we get all the

950
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: publishing back, a little temporary cash jump thing. But I

951
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: don't want to give up my songs, you know, I

952
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: really don't. Unless I'm really destitute or the kids need

953
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 1: medical treatment or something, I would never sell The songs

954
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: are my part of them. Okay. The record is done.

955
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: Do you think it's gonna be make a successful Do

956
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: you think refugees and instant hit? What's your perspective? We

957
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: had no idea. I mean, Jimmy thought it was. And

958
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: see the thing that Jimmy did more than just producing.

959
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: He went out and promoted the record when it was done.

960
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 1: You know, he would take the tapes and fly to

961
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: New York and go to the radio station said, but

962
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: let's play this, play this, this is the best thing

963
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: ever done. He was a real promoter, you know, he

964
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: went out and pushed that record and got it played

965
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot. But did what do we know? I mean,

966
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: we made another record, you know, hopefully it'll do well.

967
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's pretty good. But you know,

968
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: until people start buying it and and then you begin

969
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: to realize like, wow, this connected with some people, but

970
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: you don't really know. We didn't. Well, certainly Los Angeles

971
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: refugee hits the radio instantly. So at what point did

972
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: you realize, holy fuck, this is really happening. Well, yeah,

973
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: there was. There was kind of a moment there. Uh,

974
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: when the first publishing check in. I remember looking at

975
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: and going like with my wife, going like, honey, I

976
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 1: think our ship just came in, you know, let's go

977
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 1: by Mercedes. Then I went to the accountant and had

978
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: the meeting. Yeah, that was your gross and then he

979
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: pushed me a piece here, here's your money after taxes,

980
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, this can't be true. I

981
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: finally made it and you're taking or than have him

982
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: it back. There was, you know, a lesson in life.

983
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: So what was the whole damn the Torpedoes experience, Like

984
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: being at the pinnacle of the music business, well you

985
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: know where it's like, uh, it's like the first time. Yeah,

986
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: we were right now. It's it's so heavy and your

987
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: dream it all starts to happen. It's like it's so

988
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: intense and wonderful and spiritual that you can hardly. Um.

989
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: The only way we could deal with it's just like, Okay,

990
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,280
Speaker 1: that's good, that's happening. Wow, it's gonna happen, and everything's

991
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: gonna let's focus, you know, stay focused on on one

992
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: work because otherwise you just get lost and and the

993
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: glory of your success. You know, it was pretty heavy,

994
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: and uh it was um, you know, it's like the

995
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: first time, like the first time you ever have sex.

996
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's never quite as good as that first time,

997
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: and then we've had hit records system. But when when

998
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: you first breakthrough, it's like, Wow, we did it. We're

999
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: gonna be We're gonna this is gonna be big. Imagine that.

1000
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: How did that happen? And it's like, you never you

1001
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: only get that feeling once and we were fortunate enough

1002
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: to have that happen on that record. So what opportunities

1003
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: came your way? I'm not talking financial, but now you're

1004
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: sitting a top the charts, you suddenly start meeting your heroes.

1005
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: How does your life change? Yeah? Slowly, over time, you

1006
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: start to cross paths with, you know, people that you've

1007
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: looked up to because of your success in the in

1008
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: the the circles that you're you know, walking in. All

1009
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: of a sudden, um, that just starts to happen organically.

1010
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't like all of a sudden, all

1011
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: these people showed up at our door, but you know,

1012
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: you bump into this guy at the studio or that

1013
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: guy you know, or at a gig, somebody's backstage and

1014
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: they say hi, and then uh, it was just you know,

1015
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm still blown away that the people I've met the

1016
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: heroes of mine that I've met that actually liked me

1017
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: and wanted to work with me. And I could never

1018
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: have dreamed that, you know, my life would unfold that way.

1019
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: When I was in Jacksonville, it was just like, it's

1020
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 1: beyond my wildest dreams. It really is. Okay, so that

1021
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: record runs its course. How much pressure do you feel

1022
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 1: doing hard promises? Well, I didn't think about it that much.

1023
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: We'll just make another record, you know, now we're now

1024
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: they they like us, so we don't have to break

1025
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: through and prove that we're They already think we're good.

1026
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: So now we we have that under our belt. But

1027
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: you want to you know that from then on, every

1028
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: record you're trying to make better than that one. Now,

1029
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: even to the last record we may, you're always trying

1030
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: to make the best record you ever. May you're not

1031
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: going to do that, nobody does, but you strive to

1032
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: do that. But we didn't struggle with pressure. You know,

1033
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: we were pretty confident that, you know, this may not

1034
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: be as good as Torpedoes, but it's good and it's

1035
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: just this chapter and maybe we'll make another record after

1036
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: see what happens there. But we didn't, you know, we

1037
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: didn't agonize over it. My favorite song on that album.

1038
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: One of my favorite Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers songs

1039
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 1: is a woman in love It's not Me? Can you

1040
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: tell me the story of that? I wrote the music

1041
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: and I had a demo and gave it to Time.

1042
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: He wrote the words, and I liked that song a

1043
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: lot too. It's it's it's a really interesting character in

1044
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: that song. And Duck Dunn was in the studio that

1045
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: week and he came in and played based on it

1046
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: and really made it grew really nicely, and uh, well,

1047
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, I like that song too. It's just

1048
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 1: another demo I gave Tom and he was inspired to

1049
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: write a song to it. You know, So you go

1050
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: on tour. I remember seeing you with you were opening

1051
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: for Joe Walsh, which seemed a little strange, but uh,

1052
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: in any event, that album is not as commercially successful

1053
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: you make long. I don't remember opening for Joe Walsh ever.

1054
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: I mean after Torpedoes, we didn't open for anybody. Then

1055
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: maybe Joe Walsh opened for you. Yeah, we never opened

1056
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 1: for Joe Walsh, but espec seriously, after actually before the

1057
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: third album, we made a decision. You know, we're not

1058
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 1: gonna open for anybody. Anymore. I'd rather play a smaller

1059
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: place where they all came to see us, and by torpedoes,

1060
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: we were certainly on our headliner all the time. Well

1061
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: then I must remember that upside down. So yeah, So

1062
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: in any event, long after Dark comes out and for me,

1063
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 1: of the initial run, that is the least satisfying record

1064
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: and not that commercially successful. Was that something you guys felt?

1065
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: Are you just making another record? Well? Um, by that point, Uh,

1066
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: It's funny when you get a producer and you it

1067
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: into a role and you make a few records. Sometimes

1068
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: by the third or fourth record, it starts to get

1069
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 1: a little less fresh, the energy between you and you

1070
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: get a little stale creatively. And I think by that

1071
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: record maybe Jimmy was being pulled in different directions and

1072
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: maybe we were kind of uh, a little too familiar

1073
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: with our routine and so the record. But you know,

1074
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: that's one thing. But the other thing is, like you

1075
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: asked me before, where do these songs come from? Those

1076
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: are the songs that came up that year, you know,

1077
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: and as a refugee or here comes my Girl or

1078
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 1: woman in Love. No, there's still quality, uh songs, but

1079
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: the bar is really high now and I agree with you.

1080
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: It's not one of my favorite records, although I like

1081
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: it and there's some high points in there, but it's

1082
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: not as good as those other records you mentioned. Um,

1083
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: but that's the way a career is. You know, every

1084
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: record it makes not going to be better than the

1085
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: last one. I don't care who you are, you know.

1086
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: In fact, usually they get worse with a lot of artists.

1087
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: But we felt that, you know, this one's not as

1088
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: but we're okay because we have a fan base and

1089
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: it's still doing pretty good. Maybe the next one will

1090
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: break through a big again, you know, just keep pushing forward. Well,

1091
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: Southern Accents ends up becoming huge based primarily I don't

1092
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 1: come around here no more. In the video on MTV.

1093
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are the opposite of what's normally

1094
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: being played at MTV at that particular point, which is

1095
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot of English new wave. The song is different

1096
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: from anything anybody's ever heard before. Do you think that

1097
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: track is gonna go? Well, uh, you hope it will,

1098
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: but you never really know until it goes, you know,

1099
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: keep your fingers crossed. You know, hit records that have

1100
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 1: a lot to do with timing to the climate of

1101
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: the culture and what other records are out at the

1102
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: same time that you're competing with. So we thought it

1103
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: was atty catchy. Um, but you know, you never really know.

1104
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: I think the song's southern accents. Um. That song is

1105
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: one of the best songs he ever wrote, just as

1106
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: a song. Um, you know, don't come around here no more.

1107
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of bells and whistles on that record

1108
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: and the video, and back then it was the MTV

1109
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: was was an issue. You know, you had to make

1110
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: a cool video, and so it had that going for it. Um.

1111
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 1: And it was good to have Dave Stewart around for

1112
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: a little while as some new energy, break us out

1113
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: of our routine a little bit. And the following album,

1114
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: the opening song is Jamming Me, which is certainly something

1115
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: became a staple. Oh, certainly live. Bob Telling was one

1116
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: of the cold writers. How does that? Yeah? I know,

1117
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: how lucky am I I wasn't even there, you know.

1118
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: I had the music, gave it to Tom and he

1119
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: had gone to see Bob at a hotel, local hotel

1120
00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: for some reason or other, and he had my demo.

1121
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: He played it for Bob and they sat together and

1122
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 1: wrote the words. I wasn't even there, and he goes

1123
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: me up and he goes I think you know, Bob,

1124
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: and I wrote some words to your track. Oh great,

1125
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, let let me hear it. You know it

1126
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: was jamming me. So there I am. I'm the luckiest

1127
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: guy in the world. How do you feel at the

1128
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 1: time about Tomson he wants to cut a solo record. Well,

1129
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: I think it made sense because the band was a

1130
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: little stale and we were kind of following into a

1131
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: boring energy with We were bored with each other, we

1132
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: were bored with our way of making records, and I

1133
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: think it was healthy for everybody. Whether the band liked

1134
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: it at the time or not. It never it didn't

1135
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: mean it didn't affect me that much because he asked

1136
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: me to produce it with him anyway, So I was

1137
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 1: there just the same as usual. It's just the band

1138
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,120
Speaker 1: wasn't there. But it might have been hard on them

1139
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I think in the long run

1140
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: it worked out good for everybody. Let's go back to

1141
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: the great great songs, right, Let's go back to the

1142
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 1: very beginning. It's Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, not the Heartbreakers.

1143
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: How did you feel, How did it end? Up having

1144
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: his name at top, and how did the rest of

1145
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: the band feel about that. Well, I can only speak

1146
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: for myself, but I've talked to them all and they

1147
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: all kind of agree. Up until that point, it was

1148
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: all for one and one for all from Florida, you know,

1149
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: we were all on the same pay grade and sharing

1150
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: everything because we didn't have much to share, you know.

1151
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 1: And then as it became obvious that Tom was leading

1152
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: the group, writing most of the songs, seeing the songs

1153
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: um and it became obvious that the best way to

1154
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: present this this uh act is Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers,

1155
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: because it really was, That's what it was. And it

1156
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: was a little bit of an adjustment at first, like, Okay,

1157
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: well he's gonna put his name on there, but you know,

1158
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: does he deserve it? Yeah? Are we all gonna do

1159
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: well anyway? Yeah, So we didn't spend much time I'm

1160
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 1: worrying about it. Just seemed like a natural progression. And

1161
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: I think the band, like I said, they probably agree

1162
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: with me. You have to ask them. But my ego

1163
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: was not so strong that I felt threatened by it.

1164
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: You know. I thought, well, I'm just happy to be

1165
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: in this band, you know. I get to play guitarget

1166
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: to write songs. I don't really care whose names up there,

1167
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: as long as I get to do what I want

1168
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 1: to do, you know. So I never I didn't have

1169
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: a competitive thing about it. I felt, you know, it

1170
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: works if we're all still working together, we're still you know,

1171
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: having success together. I'm fine with it. And looking back

1172
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: on it, I think he deserved it. You know, he was.

1173
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 1: He was carrying a lot of the weight. He was

1174
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: making a lot of the decisions, management decisions as well.

1175
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: He was leading the group and he had to drive

1176
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: um of leadership that I think he deserved to have

1177
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: his name in on there. And when you played live,

1178
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,440
Speaker 1: was it an even split? Uh? It was not. It

1179
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: was half and half half of Tom half of the band,

1180
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: and I think that was fair. And at what point

1181
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: did that starter? From the very beginning around Torpedoes. I

1182
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: think it was Elliott Roberts was our co manager of

1183
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: the time, and he came and said, look, guys, we

1184
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: need to make this fair. It's not fair to Tom.

1185
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 1: You know, he's carrying it. So here's how I think

1186
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: we should go forward. And everybody went, okay, fine, you know,

1187
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: book some gigs, let's all make some money. So I

1188
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: have you ended up working with Don Henley? Well, I've

1189
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: told that story many times. It was a demo I

1190
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: had uh music and I played it for Tom and

1191
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 1: Jimmy as we were working on whatever record we were

1192
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 1: working on at the time, and it didn't really fit

1193
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: that album, and so Tom said, no, I don't I

1194
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: don't know if I hear anything. I said, okay, fine,

1195
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: I got other stuff. And then Jimmy called me and said,

1196
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: you know that track he played me, Uh, Don Henley's

1197
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: looking for a song for his solo record, And I said, well,

1198
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,120
Speaker 1: was he looking for ballot or a rocker? And he

1199
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: says an image maker? Okay, well if he if you

1200
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: think that track is good. So he set up the meeting.

1201
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: I took it over and played it for Dawn, my

1202
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: little cassette, and he sat there like this, that's with

1203
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: your head down. He listened to the whole thing. He

1204
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: didn't tap his foot, getting not his head. Got to

1205
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: the end of the song and he goes, okay, thanks,

1206
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you later. I'll let you know. And

1207
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm driving home and the phone rings and he goes, hey,

1208
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: it's done, because he said, I've just written the best

1209
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: song I've written in the last twenty years to your music.

1210
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: Oh great, okay, let me hear it, you know. So

1211
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: that's how it went. Okay, so you have the demo,

1212
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: how do you make the ultimate recording? Well, that was

1213
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: hard because the demo was so good, you know, my

1214
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: demos are good, and it was on a four track

1215
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: and he wanted to change the key. So we had

1216
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: to go into studio and recreate the demo, which is

1217
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: always just really hard if you have a demo that's

1218
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,120
Speaker 1: gout survivee and it's just loosen off the cuff and

1219
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: you have to go back and try to recreate that

1220
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: magic that made it great in the first place. That

1221
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: was one of those It was really hard, but we

1222
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,560
Speaker 1: did finally get it. That took a lot of work.

1223
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: And that stinging the guitar was that also on the demo? Yeah,

1224
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 1: that I had to relearn that because I had on

1225
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: the demo I had put the guitar on your low

1226
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: dad this year about that there, did you know? Off

1227
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: the off the top of my head, and then of

1228
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: course Don fell in love with those bits, so I

1229
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: had to go back in and relearn what I had done.

1230
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: It was really hard. For me because okay, I guess

1231
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: comes on one, two, three and dat dada. You know,

1232
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: I had to go back and learn all those little bits, um,

1233
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: which I did get it, but it took some you know,

1234
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: it was some brain work. And in terms of working

1235
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: with other people. Is the phone just ringing? Is it's

1236
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: something that happens occasionally at the time or all of

1237
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: a sudden you have a couple of hits and people

1238
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: ringing your phone off. No, it was occasional, um. You know.

1239
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: I would get a note sometimes through the office. So

1240
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: and so was interested and if somebody liked to say okay,

1241
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: if not, I'd go never mind, I'm busy. Not as

1242
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: much as you might think, you know. It wasn't ringing

1243
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: off the hook, but occasionally i'd get an interesting call

1244
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 1: here and there. The other song, of course, it's legendary

1245
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: with Henley is heard of the Matter? What's the story there?

1246
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: Heart of the Matter? I got up when Marning I

1247
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: was half asleep, and I just went and that's all

1248
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: I had, out of a dream or something, and I thought, well,

1249
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 1: maybe I'll make a demo out of that, you know,

1250
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: and threw it together. It's very simple music, really, it's

1251
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: so magical. They just come that was a little thing,

1252
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: little out of that grew into that he heard it,

1253
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:57,320
Speaker 1: he took it into another level. And I remember going

1254
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: to the Forum years later to see Don Lee solo

1255
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: and they did that song. I'm sitting out in the audience.

1256
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: They did that song and he had a full on

1257
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: chorus singing the backgrounds and it was like a religious experience.

1258
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: It's like God smiled on me, you know. And Uh,

1259
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. I almost hate to talk about the

1260
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: mystery or songwriting because I don't want to jinx it.

1261
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: But I think it is a lot of it's just

1262
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: luck and timing and turning your brain off enough to

1263
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 1: let that little light china for a second. I don't know, man,

1264
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: you tell me and we'll both know. No, I feel

1265
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: the same way, but in my work. But in any event, Uh,

1266
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: do you play the guitar every day? I do a lot.

1267
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: I mean, are you just leaving the uh you know,

1268
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: recording all the time or you waiting for those bolts

1269
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: of inspiration? How does it go down? You're holding up

1270
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: one of you a portable digital recorder. Yeah. I I

1271
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: am so addicted to writing and I'm so of like,

1272
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: um sensitive to the little the little fairy dust that

1273
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 1: might come and might slip away that I have. Little

1274
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 1: recorders are handy, so if I do get a little

1275
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: piece of something, immediately record it so I don't forget it.

1276
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: It's funny and I don't really agree with what Roy

1277
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: Orbison said, but I asked him once, uh, and there's

1278
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: some something beautiful about what he said. I said, when

1279
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 1: you're writing songs, do you record the rough ideas so

1280
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,880
Speaker 1: you don't forget them? He gaes, oh no, I never

1281
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: do that, and he goes, because I figured if I

1282
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 1: can't remember it, nobody else would have ever remembered it either.

1283
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 1: But I don't really agree with that, because I found

1284
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: little bits and pieces that I did forget about that

1285
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 1: we're good. And do you a good judge of your

1286
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,480
Speaker 1: own material? Yeah? I mean not always In the moment

1287
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: and the moment you go with the muse and you

1288
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 1: just hope that it will shine on you with something great,

1289
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: and you've always feel like it's the best thing I

1290
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: ever did. And the next day you come back and

1291
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: listen to it and go, U, it's okay, you know,

1292
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: or or else you go, oh no, it's a kink song.

1293
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice it, you know. Yeah, but uh,

1294
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, once I sit back and listen, I'm I'm

1295
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: a pretty good editor of bullshit. Yeah, my own book.

1296
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: And so now now you're working with Jeff Lynn. To

1297
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: what degree? What do you learn from Jeff Lynn that

1298
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: you don't know already? Oh so much, especially recording technique,

1299
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: um and uh, just so much, says I can't even

1300
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: hardly explain it. The way he records it is very

1301
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: fast and very um um efficient. You know. We come

1302
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: up with a song, uh on the guitar, like they

1303
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: had this song. Uh, that's all there was to it.

1304
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: And Jeff took that and built this whole record out

1305
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: of those two chords, you know, and he did it

1306
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: with background vocals. I learned so much about background vocals.

1307
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: I learned so much about arrangement. And he plays a

1308
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 1: lot of the bass himself. He's really good on the

1309
01:08:08,240 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 1: base at making the track move just right, and uh,

1310
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,400
Speaker 1: he always has an idea And I learned quickly on

1311
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 1: the Full Moon Fever record with Jeff around one day

1312
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 1: he came in and we had started a track the

1313
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: afternoon before, and he came in because a lot of

1314
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 1: times with the guitars. I'll make it up on the moment,

1315
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: you know, I'll say, okay, we'll run the track and

1316
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: I'll find something. Jeff doesn't work like that. Jeff works

1317
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 1: apart out in his head before he gets to the studio.

1318
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 1: So he came in. He goes, so, Mike, do you

1319
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: have any guitar ideas for this track? And I said,

1320
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: well no, I said, well I do, and he and

1321
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: so he said how about this? And it was this

1322
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: great part. You know. So the next time he asked me,

1323
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: I said, oh, yeah, I've got some ideas. You're not

1324
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: gonna do that to me again, you know, you gotta so,

1325
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, he was like that. He was just so

1326
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:57,880
Speaker 1: full of great ideas and he made it fun. He

1327
01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: it was so, you know, we cut those records like

1328
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: free phone. He started at noon. By five o'clock is done,

1329
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: background vocals, guitar parts finished. Because he knew how to

1330
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,599
Speaker 1: get things done really quickly and had to put everything

1331
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: in rhythm and grooving and the sounds and the microphone

1332
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 1: placements and the parts. And he would coach Tom and

1333
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,759
Speaker 1: how to sing certain lines, and then his background vocal

1334
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: trip is just a whole other thing. I won't get

1335
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 1: into it, but well, don't get it, get into what

1336
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: is it? Well, at the time. Nowadays you can do

1337
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: it digitally, but at the time, you know Jeff Lynn

1338
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 1: if you listen to his records, he has a lot

1339
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: of these big background parts that sound amazing, and he

1340
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,680
Speaker 1: shows us how to do it. And of course even

1341
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:41,960
Speaker 1: if I tell you how to do it, you won't

1342
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: be able to do it, because it's the way he

1343
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: does it. But basically, at the time, we were on analog,

1344
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: we didn't have digital, and we had a twenty four

1345
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: track machine and then a little mixed down tape machine

1346
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: and said we'd start this song and he hears all

1347
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: the background parts. So say we've got out of twenty

1348
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:02,679
Speaker 1: four tracks, we've got five or six of the acoustic

1349
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: guitars and a drum ba or whatever the basic format

1350
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: and live lead vocal. Okay, we'll go to the background parts.

1351
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: So he would find one note in the harmony and

1352
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,759
Speaker 1: he and Tom would go out and sing it together

1353
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: in unison. Okay, double that, Okay, triple that. So you've

1354
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 1: got three tracks, six voices singing the one note. Okay,

1355
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: now we're gonna do the next note in the chords.

1356
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: Same thing. So by the time you've got a you know, three,

1357
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: three or four note chorus, it's really like twenty voices

1358
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 1: coming in sounding rich as hell, but it's all sped

1359
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 1: across the twenty four tracks. So there's no more room

1360
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: for the music. So what you do, I should take

1361
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,640
Speaker 1: all those voices only blend them, because he knew how

1362
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: to blend them that they would end up right. Copy

1363
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 1: that down to the two track. It's stereo, okay, Then

1364
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 1: go back to your master track and bring up two

1365
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: tracks and put the two track and play and push

1366
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,519
Speaker 1: the multi track and record and try to time it right.

1367
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: Boom right there the chorus comes in all so then

1368
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 1: and be cause it's on It's cause it's on a metronome.

1369
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: Every chorus is going to be on beat. So you

1370
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: went up to the next course drop these twenty voices.

1371
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: So each time the chorus come by on stereo tracks,

1372
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: you've got, you know, twenty voices in perfect tune and

1373
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 1: perfectly blended. So all of a sudden, you're a little

1374
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: twenty four tracks sounds huge. You know, that was one trick,

1375
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: but there's and there's just so many more. I mean,

1376
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,880
Speaker 1: just he was just Brilliant's like going to college working

1377
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: with that guy. I really love and respect him so much.

1378
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: So that record is cut, the Full Moon Fever record

1379
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,080
Speaker 1: long before it comes out. So what's it like when

1380
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: you have something like that and it's sitting in the kids,

1381
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: you detach or you just eager, wait, wait, wait till

1382
01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: this record comes out. Well, you know, it's like you

1383
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: were asking before, do you ever know if it's a hit.

1384
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: You know, we had I Won't Back Down, Love is

1385
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: a Long Road, free Fallen, and whatever else is on

1386
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: that record. Lots of hits on there, and we thought

1387
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: it was pretty good, you know, because we the three

1388
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 1: of us said, just the three of us basically did

1389
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 1: it in my bedroom and then we took it over

1390
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: to m c A And played it for him. And

1391
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: well they went over and play it for him, and

1392
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: they came back. They were all depressed to go man,

1393
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 1: they didn't like it. They don't think there's any hits

1394
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: on here. They said, go back and cut a hit

1395
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 1: and then come play it for us. And we were demoralized, like, wow,

1396
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: I guess we're just we don't reclueless. We don't know

1397
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 1: what a hit is, you know, So okay, they want

1398
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: to hit so we'll do a bird's song that was

1399
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 1: a hit, feel a whole lot better, So we'll do

1400
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 1: a hit. You know, they want to hit. We don't

1401
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 1: know what a hit is. Obviously, we put that on there,

1402
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: and then in the meantime there was some Wilbery's action

1403
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: and the A and R department and m c A

1404
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 1: completely turned over. Everybody had left. There was a new

1405
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: group in there. So then we went back in with

1406
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 1: the same record and play it for him. This this

1407
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: record is six six, six hits deep, you know, and

1408
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 1: it's like a whole different gang, and they totally got it.

1409
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,600
Speaker 1: So we're just sitting back, Well, what the fund do

1410
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: we know? You know? Good? I hope, I hope it's

1411
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 1: a hit, you know, And of course it was. But

1412
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the movie business. I know. From inside

1413
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 1: that building, they hoped that record never came out because

1414
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 1: the deal was so rich, and then ultimately came out

1415
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a gigantic hit, which was a

1416
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: surprise to them. Now one thing that really blows my

1417
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: that blows my mind, both my mind is stan Lynch

1418
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,639
Speaker 1: gets excise from the band, but he ends up working

1419
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: with Henley and then you're working with Henley. You know

1420
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 1: do your cross paths? You know, how does that all

1421
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: go down? It's just incestuous. I don't know, it's just

1422
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 1: you know, paths cross and I've since recently, I was

1423
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: doing a tour with my band, The Dirty Knobs, and

1424
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,360
Speaker 1: my drummer had a commitment and I had Stan come

1425
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,720
Speaker 1: back in and do a month's worth of days with

1426
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,679
Speaker 1: me and we reconnected. It was beautiful. I really missed

1427
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: playing with him, but yeah, he ended up working with Don.

1428
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: I worked with Don and Da Da Da. I don't know,

1429
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,639
Speaker 1: it's just l a music scene. He know, you crossed

1430
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: paths and somebody says you want to do this, Okay,

1431
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 1: let's try it, and the next thing you know, you're

1432
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,599
Speaker 1: into it. You know. So the Greatest Hits album comes out?

1433
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 1: Whose idea is it to do something in the air.

1434
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: It had to be Tom because we did Mary James

1435
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:24,000
Speaker 1: Last Dance, which is a new song. We did discuss like,

1436
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 1: if we're gonna play out the greatest Hits, let's at

1437
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 1: least put a new song that might be a hit,

1438
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 1: a new hit, so we're not just read regurgitating the

1439
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: old stuff. And Tom wrote that great song. You know,

1440
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 1: Mary James Last Dance, and then we needed another one

1441
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 1: for the B side, and he just I think it

1442
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: was him, He said, let's just try that Thurner clap

1443
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 1: new one song, excuse me, and we we recorded those

1444
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: two songs for that album, and Lo and behold, Mary

1445
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: james Last Dance is one of our biggest songs. That's

1446
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:58,520
Speaker 1: Lucky again. He's phenomenal. I mean, the song is phenomenal.

1447
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: How much is the guitar part yours or how much

1448
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: was that in the original demo he brought on Mary

1449
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,919
Speaker 1: Jay's Last Dance. It's kind of both of us, uh

1450
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:13,400
Speaker 1: Dann down down. We both played that together. I think

1451
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: he had the first idea for it, and then I

1452
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: did my uh arrangement of it, and I think at

1453
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,679
Speaker 1: the end, let Tom play a little Chuck Barriers solo

1454
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: on it. I played the middle solo. It was a

1455
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: I think he had the original idea of the riff,

1456
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 1: but it was kind of a group effort to make

1457
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: it say on the way that it did. And Stan

1458
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: played on that record. That was the last thing we

1459
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 1: did with him, I guess. So how did you feel

1460
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: when the centuries changed? Napster comes along? Suddenly rock is

1461
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 1: no longer the dominant format. What was that Your perspective

1462
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 1: on all that, Well, it's the same as is now.

1463
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,639
Speaker 1: Who the funk knows? You know, it's a crazy business,

1464
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: you know. I remember when the uh, during the empty

1465
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: V days, there's a point there where video games became

1466
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: real popular, and like, video games are gonna take over.

1467
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: There'll be no more rock and roll music. It's all

1468
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 1: about video games. That's when we did that. You got

1469
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: Lucky video, He beats the video the game Shane to

1470
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 1: death because we were making a statement against all that. So,

1471
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:22,280
Speaker 1: I don't know. Throughout the decades, the business just mismorphed,

1472
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 1: you know. It's like and now it's streaming and vinyls

1473
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: coming back a little bit. Cassettes are coming back a

1474
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: little bit, but CDs are hanging in there, but they're streaming,

1475
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: and who knows how you don't really get paid as

1476
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: you should on streaming. I'm not really deep into it,

1477
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:45,760
Speaker 1: but I know that it's always changing, you know, and uh,

1478
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: I have no control over it. I'm just gonna make

1479
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,560
Speaker 1: the music and hope that somebody will pay me for eventually.

1480
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: So you accept these changes because a lot of people

1481
01:16:55,240 --> 01:17:00,360
Speaker 1: of our age you were successful, resisted these changes. Well,

1482
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 1: what good does it do you to resist that? You know,

1483
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: you can't stop it. The genies out of the bottle,

1484
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 1: you know. I just look at it like that's gonna

1485
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,120
Speaker 1: be what it's gonna be. Ill probably changed, you know,

1486
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: eight times more before I die. But I'm just gonna

1487
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: make the music, you know, and somebody will find a

1488
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: way to to put it out and I can always

1489
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,640
Speaker 1: play live. But there's no point agonizing over it. I mean,

1490
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 1: just it's a little weird at first when it seemed like, well,

1491
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: nobody's buying records anymore, nobody's buying CDs anymore, and it's

1492
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: all free on the internet, and that was like, it's

1493
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: kind of weird. But what can you do, you know,

1494
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: it's the wild West. You just, you know, keep making

1495
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: your music and hope that the powers that be will

1496
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 1: find it a channel for it. You know. Playing the

1497
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 1: Super Bowl good or bad experience. It was a great experience.

1498
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 1: It was. It was bad for me because I I

1499
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 1: had a mishap with my back. I was in so

1500
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: much pain. I pulled my lower back. I had to

1501
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,880
Speaker 1: take like six ad bill to get through the show.

1502
01:17:55,960 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 1: But it was very stressful, but it was great. And

1503
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: what was great about for me too, is it was

1504
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:04,400
Speaker 1: on my birthday, as it turned out, and my all

1505
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: my kids were there. So dad was playing at the

1506
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 1: Super Bowl. You know, I'm up there with my ad like, well,

1507
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 1: I can get through here. But I was proud because

1508
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:16,200
Speaker 1: my my family was there cheering for me. And it's

1509
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: you know, the NFL. I mean that's a big that's

1510
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 1: a big monster, and there was a lot of people.

1511
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: But it was exciting. I actually enjoyed it. A lot

1512
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 1: of preparation, a lot of work. What was the preparation, Well,

1513
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 1: we had to learn the songs and uh, figure out

1514
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:36,600
Speaker 1: the staging and this and that, and uh, you know,

1515
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,839
Speaker 1: be at our best and just you know, the NFL,

1516
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 1: they're just they're just you know, slave drivers. You know,

1517
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 1: they had their rules we had to follow and this

1518
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: and that. I don't want to get into it, but

1519
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: it was a lot of work, but it paid off

1520
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 1: and it's over. You know, you do like weeks of

1521
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,360
Speaker 1: work to get it to try to be this one

1522
01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 1: moment you get ninety million people around the world, six

1523
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 1: minutes is over. Okay, Well there it was, but I

1524
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: think did as well. It raised our profile a little bit.

1525
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 1: You know, so you have the final tour with Tom.

1526
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of stuff written in retrospect.

1527
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 1: He was in pain. He was doing it for everybody else.

1528
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 1: Did you have any foreshadowing or this was just another

1529
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: tour in your particular mind. He was not doing it

1530
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: for everybody else. He was doing it for himself. He

1531
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: told me, you know, straight to my face, Look, you know,

1532
01:19:25,479 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 1: I've got some issues, a little bit of pain. But

1533
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, throughout his whole career he had this kind

1534
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: of pain or that kind of pain. And so I

1535
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 1: just thought, well, yeah, he said, just dealing with some stuff.

1536
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 1: You're getting older. And he said, he said, but I'm

1537
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: gonna do this tour if I have to sit in

1538
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: a wheelchair, because I want to do it, you know.

1539
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: And so it's like, okay, if you're that gung ho,

1540
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 1: I'm not going to question You'll be there for you,

1541
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, ste it. And so he wanted it, and

1542
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,559
Speaker 1: he wasn't doing it for anybody else but himself. And

1543
01:19:50,840 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 1: did he have a foreshadowing? I don't think. So it

1544
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 1: was a mishap. I just to sit. We had talked

1545
01:19:55,680 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 1: about what we're gonna do next. We're gonna do with

1546
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: some more gigs, make another record, put out the film

1547
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,320
Speaker 1: We're Live, and just keep on going like we always did. Uh.

1548
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 1: So there was no foreshadowing that this was going to

1549
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:10,840
Speaker 1: be the last time we ever play. And the paint thing,

1550
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 1: I knew he was, you know, dealing with it, and

1551
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,799
Speaker 1: he had to take some paint colors. But he'd always

1552
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: had stuff throughout all the years, you know, his voice

1553
01:20:18,520 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 1: would go out and he had to take a steroid

1554
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: shot for the gig or this, or his hip was

1555
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 1: bothering and his knee was bothering. So to me, it

1556
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 1: was just like, oh, well, it's just another aches and

1557
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: pains along the way, you know. That's the way that

1558
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: we all looked at it. How did you find out

1559
01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:36,600
Speaker 1: that he was rushed to the hospital. I got the

1560
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:39,360
Speaker 1: phone call from his daughter like four in the morning,

1561
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: and uh, I was shocked, you know, and stunned, it's

1562
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 1: the best word I can think of. I rushed down there,

1563
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: but he was already kind of on life support at

1564
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: that point. But I had a moment to just sit

1565
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 1: and talk to him. I don't know if he heard

1566
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: me or not. I think he probably did, but he

1567
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: didn't respond. It was just horrible. He should still be

1568
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: here except for a mishap, um misjudgment of this this

1569
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:09,559
Speaker 1: this medication or that medication that was a cloudy decision

1570
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 1: at some point that uh worked against him, or else

1571
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: he'd still be here. So this all goes down shockingly,

1572
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 1: And are you stunned and can't play guitar or you

1573
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 1: go back to your routine? How do you metabolize this

1574
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: terrible event? No, the music is always a place to

1575
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: go in good times were bad times that it's a

1576
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 1: safe place. I can pick up the guitar and I

1577
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 1: can ease my pain or I can celebrate my joy,

1578
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: you know. So I certainly never stopped playing guitar, and

1579
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:46,640
Speaker 1: never even once a question that I wouldn't keep on

1580
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: making music. But you know, it's something like that, I'm

1581
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,799
Speaker 1: still greeting. I'll be greeting the rest of my life,

1582
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, that's how big it was. But I

1583
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 1: can't just quit, you know, I've got to have my music.

1584
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 1: I gotta carry on. And I think probably what he

1585
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:08,200
Speaker 1: would do it was the other way around. So no,

1586
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, I had a couple of days of cloudiness,

1587
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: but then I just pick up the guitar and soothe

1588
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: my soul, you know, like I always do. So how

1589
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: did the Fleetwood Mac thing come together? Out of the blue? Uh?

1590
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: I was planning on just getting ready to record my

1591
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:34,680
Speaker 1: album with the Dirty Knobs, and we were going to

1592
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 1: record it and you know, do what we're doing now.

1593
01:22:37,720 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 1: And I got a phone call. I think it was

1594
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 1: on my birthday again, and Mick called me and said, uh,

1595
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: that Lindsay's left the band and would you like to join,

1596
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:51,639
Speaker 1: you know, And Uh, I said, give me twenty four

1597
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:53,719
Speaker 1: hours to think about it, because it was a big decision.

1598
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 1: I thought they wanted to make a record and you know,

1599
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:59,520
Speaker 1: but it turns out they had a bunch of tour requirements,

1600
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: which so I signed on for that. I thought it

1601
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 1: over and I have nothing but the greatest respect for Lindsay.

1602
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,920
Speaker 1: And it was a little awkward for me to learn

1603
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:12,919
Speaker 1: someone else's guitar parts, but those songs really do require

1604
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 1: those parts that need to be played. I did the

1605
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 1: best I could, and I think I honored them well.

1606
01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 1: And of course I'm not here, and I did it

1607
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: my own way, but I did it as close to

1608
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: the songs I thought I could get it. And it

1609
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:28,840
Speaker 1: was a great tour and uh, my wife went with me.

1610
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:30,719
Speaker 1: We saw the world in a year and a half,

1611
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,799
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the Knobs waited for me. They were curacious

1612
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:37,200
Speaker 1: enough to let me have this moment and it was

1613
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: you know, the Fleetwood Mac treated me really good, you know,

1614
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 1: in always and it was a lot of fun. And uh,

1615
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:47,720
Speaker 1: now it's over. You know, it's like, I guess that's

1616
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:50,400
Speaker 1: something that happened in the past. So weird, how time

1617
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 1: does that. So when Mick gets ahold of you, was

1618
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:58,479
Speaker 1: deal Finn already in No, No, they were, we were,

1619
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 1: they asked me, and then we were throwing We were

1620
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 1: having sessions to talk about who could we get, you know,

1621
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,960
Speaker 1: and who would be a good singer. And uh, it

1622
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,800
Speaker 1: turns out Mick new Neil and I was in Hawaii

1623
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: rehearsing with them, and so we called him in and

1624
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: he came up from New Zealand and he and I

1625
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 1: got along great and he was a great fill in.

1626
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: You know, he did a great job. It was a

1627
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 1: tough spot to stand there and sing those songs, harder

1628
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:26,799
Speaker 1: than me for to have to play the guitar parts,

1629
01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 1: but he did great and I love the guy. So

1630
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 1: what was the difference, if any, being on the stage

1631
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: with Fleetwood Mac as opposed to Petty, well, I wasn't

1632
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:40,840
Speaker 1: playing my own songs. That was awkward for me to

1633
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: not play songs I wrote or that I'm involved with

1634
01:24:43,520 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: the records. It was new, uh to me to be

1635
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:49,680
Speaker 1: up there and playing you know, their songs, although they

1636
01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 1: did let me do uh oh, well, I got to

1637
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: sing that one, which is really fun. I got to

1638
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: sing in the arena for the first time. Not much

1639
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 1: singing on that song, but still I got to do it.

1640
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,679
Speaker 1: And uh, aside from that, it was, you know, business

1641
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: as usual, you know, they they travel first class, was

1642
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:08,640
Speaker 1: we had the private plane as the Heartbreakers did, and

1643
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 1: all the nice hotels and big gigs and you know,

1644
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,960
Speaker 1: a great crew, and it was just kind of like

1645
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 1: walking off the stage under that stage, except I'm playing

1646
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 1: their songs instead of mine, you know, and the audience

1647
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:25,320
Speaker 1: is similar or more passive, more enthusiastics. No, they're pretty similar.

1648
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean, they love Stevie. Every time she would walk out,

1649
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,960
Speaker 1: they would go crazy, you know. Uh, you know, a

1650
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,559
Speaker 1: big crowd like that. It's just such a big mob

1651
01:25:35,640 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 1: of noise, you know it all. I never thought about

1652
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: it being different. It just seemed like they're they're digging it,

1653
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 1: they're Loud, same as usual. So how did you end

1654
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: up working with Stevie to begin with? On Bella Donna

1655
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: was at an irving connection. Yeah, yeah, well, Ivan had

1656
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 1: We had two song stop Dragging My Heart Around, which

1657
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:58,120
Speaker 1: I had written with Tom that for some reason, Jimmy's

1658
01:25:58,160 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 1: heard it as uh a duet, which I think he

1659
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 1: was right. It's a great duet song, and he was

1660
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 1: doing Stevie's records, so he convinced Tom to let her

1661
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,040
Speaker 1: have that song without asking me. I thought I would

1662
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:15,160
Speaker 1: have agreed with it, you know, but uh, and you know,

1663
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: and so I get to know her through that and

1664
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,759
Speaker 1: we you know, over the years we've written some songs

1665
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: and we have a great relationship. I love her and

1666
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 1: so the tour end. Do you ever hear from Mick

1667
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,600
Speaker 1: or any of those people again? Yeah, I I occasionally

1668
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 1: we talk now and then I'm not lately in a while.

1669
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: I haven't talked to Neil in a long time. But

1670
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:37,200
Speaker 1: occasionally I'll get a text, you know, here and there

1671
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,520
Speaker 1: from Mix and hey, how you doing. I'm in Hawaii

1672
01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:43,599
Speaker 1: and you know, but I don't really know. I mean,

1673
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:46,439
Speaker 1: we left the Fleetwood Mac project. We had a meeting

1674
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: and decided that we would take a quite a long

1675
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: break to rest because it was a long tour and

1676
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: you know, it was a little hard on Christine and John,

1677
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 1: who were having a little minor medical issues to do

1678
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 1: all that traveling. So the idea was, you know, I

1679
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,400
Speaker 1: didn't break up officially, but it was like, let's just

1680
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 1: take a hiatus and everybody rest, and if Stevie wanted

1681
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to do her own tour and get for a couple

1682
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,720
Speaker 1: of years to do that, and everybody take a couple

1683
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 1: of years. By then we're all a lot older even,

1684
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:15,680
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of how it's left. I kind

1685
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: of doubt that that that'll if it does stir up,

1686
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 1: that it will include me. But it might have been,

1687
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 1: might be a shift that's already sailed. I don't know.

1688
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 1: It's not up to me, Okay. So that brings us

1689
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: to the dirty knobs. So to what degree were you

1690
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:36,600
Speaker 1: inspired to record make records because Tom had passed or

1691
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:41,320
Speaker 1: would you have done that anywhere? Well? I think I

1692
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 1: would have done it anyway, because it's a it's a

1693
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,040
Speaker 1: way for your musician to grow. You know, if you

1694
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:49,400
Speaker 1: always play with the same five guys, it can get

1695
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:51,840
Speaker 1: stale and no matter how good they are, and Uh,

1696
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,960
Speaker 1: I started recording in the studio with these guys for fun,

1697
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: and then we liked it. So we went out and

1698
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: started playing a few bars us to try out new songs,

1699
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and I found I really liked it. I like being

1700
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: in front of the band and Ian. I like doing

1701
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: my own songs. And I realized that Tom there's no

1702
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:10,840
Speaker 1: way Tom was going to be able to write to

1703
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: all of them because I write so too much and

1704
01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: he was overwhelmed with it, you know. So I figured,

1705
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 1: if unless I did these songs, you're just gonna end

1706
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:20,400
Speaker 1: up in a on a shelf somewhere. So I might

1707
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 1: as well just do them and see what I can

1708
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:23,640
Speaker 1: do with them. And so I started to enjoy doing that.

1709
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 1: And then when Tom passed, I figured, well, this is

1710
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,600
Speaker 1: what I want to do, my own songs with my

1711
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,320
Speaker 1: own band, and start over at the bottom and wip

1712
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: my way up as far as I can. So how

1713
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 1: did you collect the members of the Dirty Knobs? Well?

1714
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: I just met them. I didn't I didn't search for

1715
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,679
Speaker 1: a band. They were just guys that knew friends of mine.

1716
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: It would come over to the studio and we'd record

1717
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: for fun, and it just sort of evolved into we

1718
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:54,400
Speaker 1: like playing together and it became a band very organically.

1719
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:56,559
Speaker 1: It was not an audition or a search. It just

1720
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,800
Speaker 1: they just appeared. And do you have a studio with

1721
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 1: out to the house. I do. I'm in it right now.

1722
01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:06,000
Speaker 1: We're I record records here and I've done a lot

1723
01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,679
Speaker 1: of heartbreaker stuff here over the years. It's a great

1724
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:11,760
Speaker 1: studio and I love it's my man cave. How extensive

1725
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:15,080
Speaker 1: is it, well, it's It's just big enough for a

1726
01:29:15,120 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 1: four piece band. There's a control room with you know,

1727
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: state of the art gear. There's a drum room. There's

1728
01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:23,639
Speaker 1: a medium sized drum room, and then there's a lounge

1729
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 1: where I'm in now, which is a piano room for

1730
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:29,000
Speaker 1: guitar amps. And the great thing about my studio is

1731
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: because I've learned over the years had to get a

1732
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: good sound. My sound is all up. It's tredy to go.

1733
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:35,679
Speaker 1: I gotta do is push a button and the drums

1734
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: are on. Push your button, the bases on. I don't

1735
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: have to move mics around or try this room or

1736
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:43,759
Speaker 1: that room, and so I don't have to worry about

1737
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:45,519
Speaker 1: the sounds. I know that they sound good and I

1738
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 1: could just go in and start and work on the music,

1739
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's really nice. Does anybody else

1740
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 1: work there other than you? Uh? Well, no, I suppostly

1741
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:57,839
Speaker 1: just for me. I've done. I did a Marty Stewart

1742
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:01,760
Speaker 1: record here. Occasionally I'll have someone over and I'll work

1743
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 1: with them, but mostly it's my own songs in my

1744
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 1: own band, and it's all pro tools. I do have

1745
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,360
Speaker 1: pro tools as well as analog, but the analog has

1746
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 1: become so cumbersome that I mostly work on the pro tools. Now,

1747
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:17,720
Speaker 1: the pro tools has advanced to the point. You know,

1748
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 1: when I convinced myself that I was okay with pro

1749
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:23,920
Speaker 1: Tools is when Jeff Lynn signed off on it. Because

1750
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:25,719
Speaker 1: when it first came out, it was a little dodgy

1751
01:30:25,760 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: sounding and you could put it. You can definitely hear analog.

1752
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:30,600
Speaker 1: Put them side by side, and you can definitely hear it.

1753
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:34,360
Speaker 1: Now they've got the converter is really good, and it's

1754
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:36,559
Speaker 1: like Jeff was saying, you can blindfold me. I could

1755
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 1: probably tell, but it would be really, really hard, So

1756
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:41,040
Speaker 1: I don't think he even bothers with the tape anymore.

1757
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 1: And tape is hard to get now, and it's just

1758
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 1: like I said, it's cumbersome. And the pro Tools is

1759
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:49,640
Speaker 1: instant recall, and so yeah, I work on that. Occasionally

1760
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:51,799
Speaker 1: we'll mix on the analog just to get some glue,

1761
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 1: but even that's kind of redundant nowadays. And are you

1762
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: computer savvy? You can run all this stuff pretty well yourself. No,

1763
01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 1: I'm not computer savvy, but I know enough. I treat

1764
01:31:04,360 --> 01:31:07,000
Speaker 1: my pro Tools like a tape machine, you know, And

1765
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,120
Speaker 1: I have my need console, and I know where all

1766
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,800
Speaker 1: the inputs are, not got the sounds up, and I

1767
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,559
Speaker 1: don't If the pro Tools breaks, I'm lost, you know.

1768
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 1: I know just enough to hit record and play and

1769
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 1: solo a track or move this over there, you know. Um.

1770
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 1: But I try to look at like a tape recorder,

1771
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:25,760
Speaker 1: you know. That's sorry. I just like I would if

1772
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 1: it was an analog machine. I kind of visualize it

1773
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: that way, and that's how I use it. But I

1774
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:32,559
Speaker 1: don't get into the bells and whistles or details. I'm

1775
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:36,000
Speaker 1: not that savvy. So how many times did the Dirty

1776
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: Knobs play out live before this latest push? Well, we

1777
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:43,640
Speaker 1: used to play quite a lot. I mean on the

1778
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 1: breaks of the Heartbreakers, you know, we'd play, you know,

1779
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 1: for a couple of months. You might play four or

1780
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,600
Speaker 1: five six gigs here and there, and then I do

1781
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 1: a tour with the band, I come back and then

1782
01:31:54,080 --> 01:31:56,720
Speaker 1: we throw a few gigs together, you know, quite a

1783
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,800
Speaker 1: bit over. You know, we've been about twenty years or

1784
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,880
Speaker 1: so really that we've known each other, so we're pretty

1785
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: we're pretty much a seasoned band. It isn't like a

1786
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:10,840
Speaker 1: thrown together new thing. And how did Klaus Warman end

1787
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:15,320
Speaker 1: up doing the cover of the first album. Well, uh,

1788
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 1: my wife's assistant is a German lady. Her name is

1789
01:32:18,560 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 1: Alex and she used to work for him over in

1790
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: Germany and she we were doing the cover and she said, well,

1791
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 1: you should check with Klaus. I said, as he still

1792
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 1: around and he still works. He said yeah, So on

1793
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 1: her recommendation we contacted him. I never spoke to him personally,

1794
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:35,200
Speaker 1: but the office. I told him I wanted to train,

1795
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, and with a with a cross bars and

1796
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 1: a guy on with a hat blowing off his head

1797
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 1: or whatever. And he did the whole thing himself. But

1798
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 1: I was tickled to have Klaus Warman's name on there,

1799
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 1: and he did a good job. And how did you

1800
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: end up working with George Droculius. Well, i'd worked with

1801
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,839
Speaker 1: George through Rick Rubin on some of the Heartbreakers records,

1802
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:03,120
Speaker 1: and he always just impressed me with his energy and

1803
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 1: it's nohow but and he such a great vibe and

1804
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:09,799
Speaker 1: he was my first choice. I knew I needed a producer.

1805
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 1: I didn't want to produce it myself. I needed a

1806
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 1: perspective and George was a perfect guy to bounce things

1807
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: off of. So that was George's main role, to be

1808
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 1: a sounding board or what else did George had? Well,

1809
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: he did everything mostly he put everybody in a good

1810
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:26,719
Speaker 1: mood and made everybody play to their best of their ability.

1811
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: But he was also helpful with arrangements. And he was

1812
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,439
Speaker 1: really helpful with me because I had too many songs,

1813
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 1: and he helped me zero in and well, you know this,

1814
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 1: these these fifteen songs sound like you know, the band

1815
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 1: would be all on one record would be these you

1816
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 1: could use later or something. They're in a different vibe.

1817
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: So he helped me zero in on what would make

1818
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 1: a good band record, you know, where everything fit together

1819
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: as a package. And uh, he's really good with getting

1820
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 1: the tracks done quick. We didn't spend much time tracking.

1821
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:01,040
Speaker 1: He puts everybody in a great mood and he's like

1822
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,679
Speaker 1: a cheerleader. But he's really smart too. If something's off,

1823
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 1: he'll zero and go we gotta fix that, you know.

1824
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 1: But he's invaluable. I wouldn't want to make a record

1825
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 1: without him. So you make the first record and then covidiots.

1826
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:17,240
Speaker 1: So how did that? How did that mess up your

1827
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 1: plans completely? Like everybody else in the world. Yeah, we

1828
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,720
Speaker 1: were all set to go, and then we had to

1829
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 1: just pull back and held the record back, you know,

1830
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 1: as long as we could. And everybody had to rethink

1831
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:33,360
Speaker 1: their lives, you know, and we kind of I stayed

1832
01:34:33,720 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 1: off the road and I stayed home for the first year.

1833
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go outside at all. But I

1834
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: use that time to write and uh this and that,

1835
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 1: and you know, things are starting to open up a

1836
01:34:45,439 --> 01:34:48,639
Speaker 1: little bit. It was scary though, and plus at the beginning,

1837
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 1: everybody was dying. You know, It's like it's a death sentence.

1838
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:53,920
Speaker 1: And once we got the vaccine and you could at

1839
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:55,760
Speaker 1: least figure out if I get it, at least I

1840
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:57,559
Speaker 1: can get over it. You know, I'm not gonna be

1841
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:02,120
Speaker 1: in a corpse. But it was scary for everybody, you know,

1842
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:05,440
Speaker 1: but we got through it. We just waited, you know, patiently,

1843
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:09,120
Speaker 1: and put it out and we could. I have a

1844
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 1: great record company, BMG. They were very good with just

1845
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 1: waiting and being supportive and sticking with us through all that.

1846
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:19,439
Speaker 1: And have you gotten COVID? I did. I got it.

1847
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:23,080
Speaker 1: My wife and I got it about five months ago now,

1848
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 1: and uh, I had the vaccine. It was not bad

1849
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:28,720
Speaker 1: for me at all. I mean, some people have had it,

1850
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:31,240
Speaker 1: you know. I felt like I had a cold or

1851
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:33,719
Speaker 1: maybe a mild flu. I've had flues that were worse.

1852
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 1: It lasted about a day and a half and then

1853
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 1: my nose a little clogged up, and then I got

1854
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:39,519
Speaker 1: over it. You know, it was it was kind of

1855
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:41,040
Speaker 1: great to get over it. It It was like, Okay, I

1856
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:43,360
Speaker 1: don't have to worry about that I might getting I

1857
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:45,400
Speaker 1: might get it again, but I've already had it, so

1858
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 1: it's not that fear. You know, you know how you

1859
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 1: got it? I don't know. I have no idea it

1860
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 1: could have been from try to think. I remember. I

1861
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:01,599
Speaker 1: know we were hanging out with the grandkids who had

1862
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:03,760
Speaker 1: been going to school, but they didn't get it at

1863
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,160
Speaker 1: that time. They could have passed it on to us.

1864
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:09,600
Speaker 1: But although we were wearing masks and being careful, I

1865
01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:11,640
Speaker 1: really don't know. It's just I think it was just

1866
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 1: in the air. A lot of people get it and

1867
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 1: they don't know where they got it. You know, it's

1868
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: just swimming around out there, so watch out. And now

1869
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:24,439
Speaker 1: it's monkey pops. Don't get the monkey pops. So you

1870
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: make the first record, COVID comes along. How do you

1871
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 1: decide to make a second record before you've even been

1872
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:33,599
Speaker 1: out really to promote the first record? Because I had

1873
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: the songs and I love recording. You know, I've got

1874
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:39,280
Speaker 1: enough songs for two more albums. I can't wait. I'm

1875
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:43,160
Speaker 1: just December. I'm gonna record another album. You know, when

1876
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:44,760
Speaker 1: your songs are there, you want to put them on

1877
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:47,040
Speaker 1: tape and then as soon as it's a record. You know,

1878
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:49,160
Speaker 1: if if the record company could find a window to

1879
01:36:49,240 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 1: stick you in there, there you go. But I'll make

1880
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:53,720
Speaker 1: them whether they put them out or not. You know,

1881
01:36:53,760 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 1: I just love it. I love the process. Okay, So

1882
01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:02,240
Speaker 1: if one listens to your records, they are great rock

1883
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: records in a world where rock does not have that

1884
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:12,479
Speaker 1: much presence. How do you feel about that? I kind

1885
01:37:12,479 --> 01:37:14,200
Speaker 1: of wear that as a badge of honor, you know

1886
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:18,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. All through my career, you know, there's

1887
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:22,040
Speaker 1: been like you know, uh, you know, all the boy

1888
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:24,720
Speaker 1: bands that come along or the hip hop and all

1889
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:26,920
Speaker 1: that stuff, and rock is dad, it's over. It's all

1890
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,519
Speaker 1: about you know, rap or whatever, and then that would

1891
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:32,519
Speaker 1: die out and rock is just always kind of still

1892
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:37,560
Speaker 1: kind of bubbling under the surface. And I wear it

1893
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:39,439
Speaker 1: as a badge of honor that we're a rock and

1894
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 1: roll bands and a boogie boogie rock and roll band

1895
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:45,200
Speaker 1: with good songs, and that's what I grew up on,

1896
01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 1: and I think at this age I can represent that

1897
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:53,280
Speaker 1: music really truthfully. You know. I hear a lot of

1898
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 1: young bands trying to play rock and roll and it's

1899
01:37:55,720 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 1: just it's not They don't they don't understand the feel

1900
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 1: I do. You listen to the record to hear that immediately, Well,

1901
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:07,120
Speaker 1: that's that's why we're offering, you know. If that's what

1902
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: you like, that's what we are. If you don't like it,

1903
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:11,840
Speaker 1: then you can go listen to Harry Styles. I love

1904
01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:14,599
Speaker 1: Harry Styles, but it's got nothing to do with with

1905
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 1: my my music in my direction. But I'm honest to

1906
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:20,479
Speaker 1: what I am, you know, and I know if I

1907
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 1: know from being on tour, the a lot of people

1908
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 1: out there still love that kind of music, and they

1909
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:26,840
Speaker 1: love to hear it from I think I'm pretty close

1910
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 1: to the true source of say Chuck Berry or whatever,

1911
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:33,400
Speaker 1: or Muddy Waters or whoever, or even the sixties bands.

1912
01:38:33,479 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 1: I can get inside that because I was there as

1913
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: part of my d n A and so I feel

1914
01:38:38,240 --> 01:38:40,400
Speaker 1: I can. I can share this with people. If that's

1915
01:38:40,400 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: what they want to hear, come to me. I'll give

1916
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:45,320
Speaker 1: you the real thing, you know. And do you listen

1917
01:38:45,479 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: to new music or just try? I try, you know,

1918
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: but I always get I'm I don't know, man. You know.

1919
01:38:55,920 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 1: It's I grew up the Beach Boys, the Beatles and

1920
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 1: Stones and Zombies, the Kinks, animals, you know, Jeff Beck,

1921
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: Eric Clapton, Michael Bloomfield. I grew up around all that music,

1922
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:12,640
Speaker 1: you know. And so I hear a new band. I

1923
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:14,839
Speaker 1: might be on the on the in the car driving

1924
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:17,280
Speaker 1: and hearing that's kind of catchy. I like that, you know.

1925
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,559
Speaker 1: And then I'll get home and I'll tell me, oh,

1926
01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: I heard this, this this cool song, but and she goes,

1927
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:25,680
Speaker 1: how did it go? And I go, H, well, it

1928
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 1: had a good drum sound back in the day, Back

1929
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 1: in the day. If I'm driving home and I hear

1930
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:34,840
Speaker 1: you really got me or satisfaction. By the time I

1931
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:37,040
Speaker 1: get home, I can sing it to you, you know

1932
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: the song. I mean, it's just because I'm old and

1933
01:39:39,479 --> 01:39:43,040
Speaker 1: I'm an old geezer, but those songs to me are better.

1934
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:46,280
Speaker 1: They're memorable you hear them one time. Nowadays it's all

1935
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: production and sounds and and grooves, and you know, I

1936
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:54,080
Speaker 1: don't know just I can't grab onto it. I try.

1937
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:57,240
Speaker 1: I keep trying to find a new band, but none

1938
01:39:57,280 --> 01:39:59,200
Speaker 1: of them. I always go back. I'd rather I'd rather

1939
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:01,759
Speaker 1: hear the animals. You know, there are the yard person.

1940
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: That's the stuff that I like to, you know better,

1941
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 1: So I go back and listen to old records. I

1942
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:10,040
Speaker 1: guess I'm just doomed that way. Okay, And you know

1943
01:40:10,120 --> 01:40:14,240
Speaker 1: we have this whole COVID interruption. But as you've gotten older,

1944
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,559
Speaker 1: do you find you stay home or do you still

1945
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 1: go out? I'm talking to not when you're working, when

1946
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:22,000
Speaker 1: you're home, and right, No, we've opened up a little bit.

1947
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:23,599
Speaker 1: And we went out to a restaurant the other day.

1948
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:25,639
Speaker 1: You know, I wear my mask and took it off.

1949
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:29,000
Speaker 1: I was eating and uh, I don't go to concerts

1950
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:32,080
Speaker 1: or clubs but I don't. I don't think i'd go

1951
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 1: anyway unless there's somebody I really wanted to see, which

1952
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 1: there usually isn't. I don't, uh, I don't know. I'm

1953
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 1: kind of a homebody anyway. So in a lot of ways,

1954
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 1: the COVID wasn't that hard for me, because I still

1955
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 1: I gotta stay home and work in my studio and

1956
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:48,320
Speaker 1: play with my dogs. Okay, I'm fine with that. You know,

1957
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:50,680
Speaker 1: I don't need the roar of the crowd to to

1958
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,599
Speaker 1: feel good inside. So but I'm not afraid to go

1959
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 1: out to a store or to the restaurant or you know,

1960
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,200
Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of it anymore like I used to be.

1961
01:41:02,280 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 1: But I'm cautious, you know, I want to be. I

1962
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 1: got I have gigs to do. I don't want to

1963
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 1: screw up my gigs, so i'd be careful. So what

1964
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 1: are the preparations and rules you use on the gigs

1965
01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:16,880
Speaker 1: so that people don't get infected? Well? I leave that

1966
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:18,719
Speaker 1: A lot of that up to the to the clubs

1967
01:41:18,720 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 1: and the promoters. They have their own protocols for the audience.

1968
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 1: You know, at some places require a test, some places

1969
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:31,920
Speaker 1: suggest a mask. Are our crew at this point of all, uh,

1970
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,600
Speaker 1: pretty well had it and are over it. But we

1971
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:40,160
Speaker 1: still wear masks and but we're not you know, hardcore.

1972
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 1: You don't come near me unless you show me your test.

1973
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:45,240
Speaker 1: You know. We kind of it's kind of on a

1974
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 1: honor system around my band and according to the you know,

1975
01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:54,120
Speaker 1: the promoters rules. Like with Price Stapleton when we were

1976
01:41:54,160 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 1: upening for him, he had a protocol every Thursday, everybody

1977
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 1: gets a test, you know, which is fine. We did

1978
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 1: that and then he ended up getting it, so God

1979
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:09,360
Speaker 1: bless him. He got over it. But it's awkward because

1980
01:42:09,400 --> 01:42:14,240
Speaker 1: nobody really knows. Are these this is really keeping me safe?

1981
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 1: This is mask really keeping me? Would I get it anyway?

1982
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 1: I'll take my chances and wear it just to be safe.

1983
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't really know, you know. So

1984
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 1: that's the way I look at it. Honor system and

1985
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:29,599
Speaker 1: just common sense and uh, I keep in mind all

1986
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,840
Speaker 1: the time. But on touring, like you know, I've got

1987
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:33,559
Speaker 1: a lot of gigs book and I've got these gigs

1988
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:36,160
Speaker 1: coming up opening for the Who, and I don't want

1989
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:37,960
Speaker 1: to screw that up, you know, So I'm gonna be

1990
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:41,280
Speaker 1: real careful so that I'm healthy and my band is healthy.

1991
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 1: So that we don't have to cancel the gig. You know,

1992
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: how did you get the gig opening for The Who?

1993
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 1: And do you know those guys? I don't know them.

1994
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 1: It's it's my it's my luck, man, I don't know

1995
01:42:53,240 --> 01:42:58,400
Speaker 1: like Fleetwood Mac the Who stuff is pot Tom these songs,

1996
01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:01,439
Speaker 1: I feel sometimes I feel like I the most blessed

1997
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 1: guy on the universe. It dropped in our lap. We

1998
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 1: started this tour. We're playing little bars, and we're moving

1999
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:08,639
Speaker 1: up to theaters, like we're moved up to the film

2000
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:11,760
Speaker 1: where we could play there now headline and maybe the

2001
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,320
Speaker 1: will turn here. So we're starting to get a little

2002
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:17,559
Speaker 1: bit up above the CD bars into theaters. And then

2003
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:19,840
Speaker 1: one day I just got the call like there's an

2004
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:21,960
Speaker 1: opening slot here. Are you interested? I said, and I

2005
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:25,720
Speaker 1: addressed sign me up, man. I want to stand on

2006
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:27,759
Speaker 1: this side of the stage and watch Pete Townsend play.

2007
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely, we'll play on before them, and it's

2008
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:33,080
Speaker 1: we're the only other band, so we're second on the

2009
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 1: bill and they're being really nice to us. I don't

2010
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 1: know how we got that gig, just you know, a

2011
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 1: gift from God. I don't know, man, And how do

2012
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:46,200
Speaker 1: you know Stapleton uh. He called me. I had uh

2013
01:43:46,720 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 1: uh scene. I had met him briefly once when the

2014
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:51,680
Speaker 1: Heartbreakers are playing rigley Field and he was opening, and

2015
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 1: he walked by and said, hi, Mike. And so, as

2016
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:56,759
Speaker 1: it turns out, now I'm gonna be playing rigley Field

2017
01:43:56,760 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 1: opening for him. That's fine. But he called me up

2018
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:02,679
Speaker 1: on a break and said he was writing some songs.

2019
01:44:02,720 --> 01:44:04,040
Speaker 1: Would you like to try and write? And I don't

2020
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:07,000
Speaker 1: usually do that because I'm right alone. And he came

2021
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:08,559
Speaker 1: over and we spent a couple of days and we

2022
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:11,680
Speaker 1: wrote some songs together and we became friends. And so

2023
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 1: he he was so cute. He goes like, well, and

2024
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 1: he knew I was putting out a record. I had

2025
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:18,680
Speaker 1: got him just singing on one song, and he's a

2026
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 1: big fan of mine. Uh and uh, he says, you know,

2027
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:24,439
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't mean any disrespect, but I've

2028
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 1: got some some gigs coming up, and if you want

2029
01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 1: to be on the bill, I could put you on

2030
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 1: the tour opening. I said, sure, I'll take it. So

2031
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:34,400
Speaker 1: you know, he was really kind to give me those slots.

2032
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:38,719
Speaker 1: And you know, Stapleton is like the great White Hope

2033
01:44:38,720 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: in Nashville, which is certainly pretty white. Have you uh

2034
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: been invested or checked out the Nashville scene or not?

2035
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,720
Speaker 1: And he takes on what's going on there. Well. I

2036
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 1: think he is the cream of the crop. Him and

2037
01:44:51,640 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 1: Memago Price, who I've also gotten to know. I love

2038
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:58,360
Speaker 1: both of them. I think Chris is we got one

2039
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 1: of those Roy Orbison type boy is where it's just

2040
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,880
Speaker 1: a gift. And I've you know, playing these gigs with him.

2041
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:06,799
Speaker 1: I watch him. He just stands there. He doesn't run around,

2042
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't wave his arms. He just opens up his

2043
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,880
Speaker 1: mouth and people are enthralled. He's got a gift of

2044
01:45:12,920 --> 01:45:15,519
Speaker 1: a voice and a good soul. He comes from a

2045
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 1: very soulful, believable personality, and so does Margot I'm aware

2046
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 1: of through them. I where it's a little bit of

2047
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:28,439
Speaker 1: the country stuff. I don't like modern country, rock and roll,

2048
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,920
Speaker 1: poppy country. You know. Once again, if I want to

2049
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,360
Speaker 1: hear country music, I'm gonna go listen to George Jones

2050
01:45:34,439 --> 01:45:38,719
Speaker 1: or Tammy Whine or Patsy Klein. You know, Margot Price,

2051
01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 1: I would put her in there. But I don't know

2052
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:46,240
Speaker 1: if any other new artists that that impressed me as

2053
01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: much as Chris. I think he's heading shoulders above most

2054
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:51,960
Speaker 1: of them. But I don't listen that much, you know.

2055
01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,759
Speaker 1: I have I have Serious Radio, I have Tom Petty Radio,

2056
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:58,559
Speaker 1: and I have Deep Tracted and I have Outlaw Country.

2057
01:45:59,640 --> 01:46:01,240
Speaker 1: So I I checked those from time to time and

2058
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:04,600
Speaker 1: if somebody looks interesting, I'll click on it. But I

2059
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:07,679
Speaker 1: don't follow country music per se, but I do prefer

2060
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:12,040
Speaker 1: the older stuff. Okay, what's it like, It's Todd Rundgan putted,

2061
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 1: going back to the bars. Well, it's it's wonderful. It

2062
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:22,760
Speaker 1: is an ego check for me. Um. You know, I'm

2063
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:25,439
Speaker 1: flying on commercial flights in the airports. I'm not on

2064
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,519
Speaker 1: the private plane. You know, I'm driving in a van.

2065
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't have a limo, I don't have all those

2066
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:36,240
Speaker 1: the trappings. But I love the small rooms musically, I

2067
01:46:36,320 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 1: just and I love seeing the people and I drive

2068
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 1: up and it's it's my name, my band on there,

2069
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm really proud. And I'm really proud

2070
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:51,679
Speaker 1: too that it's growing. You know. We're playing some smaller

2071
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:55,240
Speaker 1: places this year, but we're already getting offers for some

2072
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:57,679
Speaker 1: festivals coming up later. And like I said, the Filmore

2073
01:46:57,720 --> 01:47:00,800
Speaker 1: and the Wiltern and some theaters. So my, my goal

2074
01:47:00,920 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 1: is to get move up through the bars to the

2075
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:06,720
Speaker 1: theaters and I could see who's going to happen in

2076
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 1: the meantime. Uh, I love it. You know, the music

2077
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:15,400
Speaker 1: is so much better in a room of four hundred

2078
01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:18,360
Speaker 1: to eight hundred people. Everybody's in on it. I can

2079
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:20,920
Speaker 1: see their faces and I'm can interact with the crowd.

2080
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:22,800
Speaker 1: When you get into the big thing, it's like this

2081
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:26,120
Speaker 1: big sea of of there's a crowd out there. It's

2082
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:30,360
Speaker 1: just a big sea of you know, uh, collage of

2083
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:32,640
Speaker 1: people when you're in the club there right there, and

2084
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:34,400
Speaker 1: you can really, you know, tune in with them and

2085
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:36,439
Speaker 1: they could feel the music, you can feel them back.

2086
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:41,120
Speaker 1: So going back to the bars is really fun, you know,

2087
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:42,799
Speaker 1: as long as I know I'm not gonna be stuck

2088
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:44,760
Speaker 1: there the rest of my life because I am a

2089
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:48,000
Speaker 1: little spoiled, you know, and I want the guys. I

2090
01:47:48,040 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: want the guys to to take to move up and

2091
01:47:50,280 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 1: get a taste of it. You know, it makes some money,

2092
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:53,639
Speaker 1: which would be nice and make me happy to see

2093
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:56,880
Speaker 1: them make some money. And to what degree are you

2094
01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 1: finding that these audiences know them at two real or

2095
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: just coming because you're Mike Campbell A lot I see

2096
01:48:04,120 --> 01:48:06,640
Speaker 1: a lot of people singing along to uh, you know

2097
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: some of the tracks on the album that I wouldn't

2098
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:11,240
Speaker 1: think that they would know those words, but you know,

2099
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:13,160
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of people that know who I

2100
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:15,960
Speaker 1: am from the Heartbreakers, and I do occasionally do a

2101
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,000
Speaker 1: Heartbreaker song here and there, and especially when I had

2102
01:48:19,080 --> 01:48:21,760
Speaker 1: stand on the drums, we did some Heartbreakers songs here

2103
01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:23,840
Speaker 1: and there. It was really emotional and people loved it.

2104
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:26,639
Speaker 1: But they love our music too, you know, they sing

2105
01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:31,120
Speaker 1: along and there there is it's I'm so grateful that

2106
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 1: they they they're so excited, you know, and their their

2107
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:36,680
Speaker 1: eyes are so full of joy, and I feel like,

2108
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, I have the best job in the world. Okay.

2109
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:45,000
Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories is I'm in Minneapolis and

2110
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:49,759
Speaker 1: def Leopard and Brian Adams run a baseball tour baseball

2111
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:53,479
Speaker 1: stadium toward minor league parks, and they switch openers. In

2112
01:48:53,479 --> 01:48:56,559
Speaker 1: this particular day, Brian Adams is the opener, so he's

2113
01:48:56,640 --> 01:49:00,599
Speaker 1: playing when it's when there's still sunlight out and he's

2114
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 1: playing along. I'm on the side of the stage and

2115
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:05,719
Speaker 1: he turns around to the rest of the band, holds

2116
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:09,160
Speaker 1: up the set list, rips it in half. And then

2117
01:49:09,320 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 1: I see him literally win over the audience and the

2118
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 1: time that's left to what degree do you feel that

2119
01:49:16,600 --> 01:49:19,240
Speaker 1: need into what degree? I mean, when you're top any

2120
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 1: of the Heartbreakers, the audience is already convinced, right right right.

2121
01:49:23,360 --> 01:49:25,840
Speaker 1: I like the challenge. And uh, it's interesting you had

2122
01:49:25,880 --> 01:49:28,639
Speaker 1: mentioned that because on some of these gigs with Chris

2123
01:49:28,640 --> 01:49:32,160
Speaker 1: Stapleton and some of the the sheds where they have

2124
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: the lawn and the seats. Uh I I remember when

2125
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:38,800
Speaker 1: the Heartbreaker used to play those. I used to feel

2126
01:49:38,840 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 1: so sorry for the opening ask because there'd be nobody

2127
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 1: there and I go, oh, I feel so so bad

2128
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 1: for them, you know. And I was ready for that

2129
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:49,160
Speaker 1: when we started doing these opening shows. But you know,

2130
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:52,280
Speaker 1: I believing or not, a lot of people showed up early,

2131
01:49:52,920 --> 01:49:54,519
Speaker 1: and I don't know who. I maybe as a country

2132
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:58,280
Speaker 1: artistist artists bring people in earlier. I don't know where

2133
01:49:58,280 --> 01:49:59,880
Speaker 1: they came to see me. Some of them I don't know.

2134
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:02,840
Speaker 1: But we were blessed with pretty good audiences. But I

2135
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:09,360
Speaker 1: love the challenge of winning them over. Um and uh,

2136
01:50:09,479 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 1: I call attention to the fact, you know, a lot

2137
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:13,680
Speaker 1: of those shows. I'll start with running down a Dream,

2138
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 1: I'll go I might camera with the Dirty nil as

2139
01:50:15,520 --> 01:50:17,559
Speaker 1: we said, I'm like this, here's an old song, and

2140
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,040
Speaker 1: so I think I can see them kind of going, oh,

2141
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:22,439
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I think that's the guys in that band.

2142
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 1: I think that's the guy that does that song. You know,

2143
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:26,920
Speaker 1: he's doing it now. And then we do some of

2144
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:30,320
Speaker 1: our songs, and then uh, we have I have a

2145
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 1: version of refugee that I do this like a waltz

2146
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:37,280
Speaker 1: that's a Irish waltz field for the words are real

2147
01:50:37,479 --> 01:50:41,320
Speaker 1: upfront and powerful, and I get and the audience sings along,

2148
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:44,479
Speaker 1: you know, and I end a song go and I

2149
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:47,120
Speaker 1: start saying, don't have to live like a refugee, and

2150
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,120
Speaker 1: I walk away from the mic and they keep singing

2151
01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:51,400
Speaker 1: and I end with them singing the last line all

2152
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:54,800
Speaker 1: by themselves and I say good night. And I love

2153
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:57,160
Speaker 1: winning them over, you know. And it's a challenge, but

2154
01:50:57,479 --> 01:50:59,280
Speaker 1: I found I can do it. You know. I'm really

2155
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:03,200
Speaker 1: kind of learning how to tune into them and pull

2156
01:51:03,280 --> 01:51:05,400
Speaker 1: them in with saying the right things at the right

2157
01:51:05,439 --> 01:51:08,760
Speaker 1: time and the right song at the right time. And confidence.

2158
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:10,679
Speaker 1: You know, I've got my confidence now that I could

2159
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:13,320
Speaker 1: walk out to a crowd that some of them may

2160
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:16,160
Speaker 1: not know who I am and convince them to like me,

2161
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 1: you know, and to what degree to the set list change? Well,

2162
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:24,519
Speaker 1: if it's a dirty knob some of the places we

2163
01:51:24,560 --> 01:51:27,360
Speaker 1: play our gigs, and I change it quite a bit,

2164
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 1: you know, on the Chris Staples and stuff, especially when

2165
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:33,880
Speaker 1: Margaret Prices out. She would come out in the middle

2166
01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:36,920
Speaker 1: of our set and do the song state of mind,

2167
01:51:36,960 --> 01:51:39,479
Speaker 1: what she's saying on our record with us. So I've

2168
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:41,639
Speaker 1: only got five songs, so I kind of keep it,

2169
01:51:42,520 --> 01:51:44,280
Speaker 1: and I changed one or two songs here and there,

2170
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,360
Speaker 1: but I kind of keep it to what works because

2171
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:47,880
Speaker 1: I'm the opening act, you know, I don't want to

2172
01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:49,720
Speaker 1: just go start going deep track. I'm trying to win

2173
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,280
Speaker 1: these people over, you know, in five songs. So I

2174
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:54,320
Speaker 1: give them a heartbreaker song and some of ours and

2175
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:57,240
Speaker 1: then closed with a heartbreaker song. So I keep that

2176
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:00,760
Speaker 1: pretty well set. But with my band, we always change

2177
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:02,599
Speaker 1: the setup. We got a lot of songs and lots

2178
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:05,600
Speaker 1: of covers, and you know, I have a you know,

2179
01:52:05,680 --> 01:52:07,680
Speaker 1: a handful of heart baker songs I can throw in

2180
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 1: now and then for fun, and I love doing those,

2181
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:12,519
Speaker 1: most of them ones that I wrote, you know, and

2182
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:16,840
Speaker 1: so um it's interesting I found that our dirty Knobs

2183
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:20,600
Speaker 1: songs hold up really well in these gigs alongside the

2184
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:26,360
Speaker 1: big songs, so that's encouraging. And uh yeah. And one

2185
01:52:26,439 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 1: of the criticisms of my head of the Heartbreakers is

2186
01:52:28,680 --> 01:52:32,439
Speaker 1: we get our show not very that much. But I

2187
01:52:32,720 --> 01:52:34,280
Speaker 1: so I'd like to change the set, you know. I

2188
01:52:34,280 --> 01:52:36,040
Speaker 1: like to surprise the band so they don't know what

2189
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:39,040
Speaker 1: song is coming next. Or sometimes I'll just call an audible,

2190
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:41,720
Speaker 1: I go forget that song on the list, We're gonna

2191
01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: play this one, and they'll go like, but then you've

2192
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:46,040
Speaker 1: got them, you know, you got them tuned in. You know,

2193
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 1: how how hard are you willing to work? How hard

2194
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:52,439
Speaker 1: am I willing to work? Like? You know, the old

2195
01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:54,280
Speaker 1: days you start out, you played two It in fifty

2196
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:56,360
Speaker 1: dates a year. I'm sure you don't want to play

2197
01:52:56,360 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 1: Twitter in fifty dates. No, I'm down. I'm working. I'm

2198
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:02,080
Speaker 1: out there. I told you book a gig, I'll be there.

2199
01:53:02,160 --> 01:53:03,720
Speaker 1: You know. I want to I want these records to

2200
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:05,679
Speaker 1: get hurt. I want people to know that we're here

2201
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: and I'm still young enough to do it, you know, barely,

2202
01:53:09,640 --> 01:53:11,240
Speaker 1: But I want to work, you know. I think we

2203
01:53:11,320 --> 01:53:13,679
Speaker 1: might go to Europe. Next year and I'm I'm I'm down.

2204
01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:16,439
Speaker 1: And my wife and I now travel together so that's easier,

2205
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:19,280
Speaker 1: and she's into it, and we want to go out,

2206
01:53:19,520 --> 01:53:22,759
Speaker 1: and uh, I really enjoy this part of our life,

2207
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, and I want to work hard, you know,

2208
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,240
Speaker 1: I have I know this guy who has led Zeppelin's

2209
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:32,439
Speaker 1: photographer back in the film Days, and he said, I've

2210
01:53:32,479 --> 01:53:35,320
Speaker 1: been around the world multiple times and I've seen nothing.

2211
01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:38,679
Speaker 1: Are you the type of guy who takes advantage or

2212
01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:43,120
Speaker 1: you're just going from the hotel room to the hall. Well, Um,

2213
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:44,960
Speaker 1: it depends on how much time. If that I got

2214
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:46,759
Speaker 1: a day off, we try to find something to do.

2215
01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:50,120
Speaker 1: The great thing about the Fleetwood Mac tour is there

2216
01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 1: several days off and you might be in Belgium, or

2217
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:56,479
Speaker 1: you might be in Sydney, or you might be in Dublin,

2218
01:53:57,000 --> 01:53:58,559
Speaker 1: and you got a day or two off, you know,

2219
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:01,600
Speaker 1: and we would go out and do stuff. You know,

2220
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 1: you would go to museums or go, uh take a

2221
01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:07,520
Speaker 1: train ride and go shopping, or go out to different restaurants,

2222
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:11,200
Speaker 1: or go out and see the you know, architecture. Um.

2223
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 1: I like to get out if there's time, and I

2224
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:15,200
Speaker 1: had as long as I get enough rest and get

2225
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:18,000
Speaker 1: out and and take it all in, you know. But

2226
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 1: I know what he means. A lot of heart packers tours.

2227
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 1: You know. We went through the city and I didn't

2228
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:24,200
Speaker 1: even see anything, you know, I saw the hotel in

2229
01:54:24,200 --> 01:54:27,360
Speaker 1: the in the car in the state. But now I

2230
01:54:27,400 --> 01:54:29,360
Speaker 1: like to I like to take up the culture of

2231
01:54:29,400 --> 01:54:33,080
Speaker 1: wherever I am. We just played the Knobs played up

2232
01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 1: in Napa Valley at this beautiful old theater called Uptown

2233
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:42,680
Speaker 1: Theater as great old Pricenium Hall, and we were driving

2234
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:44,360
Speaker 1: through the town. I was wishing we'd have had more

2235
01:54:44,440 --> 01:54:47,760
Speaker 1: days off because it was a beautiful little town, you know,

2236
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:52,200
Speaker 1: really parks and lakes and cool buildings and shopping. But

2237
01:54:52,280 --> 01:54:55,080
Speaker 1: we didn't have time to take it all in. But generally, yeah,

2238
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:59,280
Speaker 1: we wanna, we wanna, you know, experience everything. Okay, you've

2239
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:02,520
Speaker 1: done a great description of the live act and enticing

2240
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 1: people to go. If for those people who are gonna

2241
01:55:05,240 --> 01:55:08,120
Speaker 1: start with the records, tell them how they should get started,

2242
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 1: well by them and listen to them. I don't I

2243
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 1: don't know what you mean. I mean, there's too well,

2244
01:55:16,480 --> 01:55:18,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's two albums. We live in an era

2245
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: where people have streaming and there's you know, you can

2246
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:26,280
Speaker 1: pick and choose the tracks. Certainly Spotify will tell you

2247
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:28,520
Speaker 1: what's most played, and then they have the albums or

2248
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,920
Speaker 1: they're one or two songs. People say start here. No,

2249
01:55:33,560 --> 01:55:35,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do that. I would just say just just

2250
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:38,320
Speaker 1: dig in and and if you like it, listen to it.

2251
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:39,760
Speaker 1: You know, if you don't like it, skipped to the

2252
01:55:39,760 --> 01:55:41,840
Speaker 1: next one. I don't know, that's up to them. But

2253
01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:43,920
Speaker 1: I think all the stuff, all all the songs and

2254
01:55:43,960 --> 01:55:46,839
Speaker 1: all the albums are indicative of the of the dirty knobs,

2255
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:49,960
Speaker 1: and they're you know, they're all good in their own way,

2256
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:53,480
Speaker 1: you know. And Ian Hunters on one of the tracks,

2257
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:55,640
Speaker 1: how did that do? You can start with that one?

2258
01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:59,320
Speaker 1: It's a dirty job. That's a good one. Uh. That

2259
01:55:59,440 --> 01:56:02,320
Speaker 1: was that was another thing fell on my lap. I've

2260
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 1: never met the guy, but he was gracious enough to

2261
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,240
Speaker 1: just sing. He sent me a couple of tracks that

2262
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:09,080
Speaker 1: he was working on, which are great. By the way,

2263
01:56:09,120 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 1: up start at the very beginning. How did you make contact?

2264
01:56:13,520 --> 01:56:17,520
Speaker 1: He called the office and asked if I would be

2265
01:56:17,600 --> 01:56:22,040
Speaker 1: interested and overdubbing some guitar and some new songs, and

2266
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:24,160
Speaker 1: of course I said yes. I'm a huge fan of

2267
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 1: Matt the Hoople and that he they sent the in

2268
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:28,920
Speaker 1: the mail, came over these tracks and might put him

2269
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 1: up in my session, put my guitars on and sent

2270
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:34,760
Speaker 1: him back to him and he loved it. Well, actually

2271
01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:36,320
Speaker 1: he sent one. He liked it so much he sent

2272
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:38,880
Speaker 1: me another song. And then I was getting a little

2273
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:41,800
Speaker 1: brave and said, well, would you consider maybe singing one

2274
01:56:41,880 --> 01:56:43,600
Speaker 1: of our songs? I didn't think he would, but he

2275
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:46,480
Speaker 1: said sure. So I sent him over the song dirty Job,

2276
01:56:46,520 --> 01:56:48,840
Speaker 1: and he'd sing a verse and put some piano on it.

2277
01:56:49,600 --> 01:56:51,200
Speaker 1: And I can't wait to meet him and thank him

2278
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:54,600
Speaker 1: in person. But yeah, that's a good place to start.

2279
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:56,520
Speaker 1: If you like Matt the Hoople, go for that song.

2280
01:56:57,800 --> 01:57:00,960
Speaker 1: And when you're on stage, it's a friend perception that

2281
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:03,920
Speaker 1: when you're in the audience and you know when you're great,

2282
01:57:04,200 --> 01:57:06,480
Speaker 1: and you know when you're off a little bit, even

2283
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:09,440
Speaker 1: though the audience may still enjoy it. What are one

2284
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:13,400
Speaker 1: or two gigs that you've played, whether it be the Knobs,

2285
01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:16,240
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac or Tom Petty Go that really stand out

2286
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:22,880
Speaker 1: in your brain? Well, Um, Madison Square Garden with the

2287
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:25,840
Speaker 1: Heartbreakers a couple of times there. I was very spiritual.

2288
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:29,360
Speaker 1: Royal Albert Hall I've always loved playing there. It just

2289
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:33,000
Speaker 1: has an ambiance to it, the Hollywood Bowl. You know,

2290
01:57:33,080 --> 01:57:36,000
Speaker 1: it's ironic about the Hollywood Bowls. That's the last show

2291
01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:39,440
Speaker 1: I played with Tom, and I remember leaving thinking I'll

2292
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:42,240
Speaker 1: never be back here again. And I'm going back to

2293
01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 1: open for the Who at the Hollywood Bolts, our last

2294
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:50,560
Speaker 1: show together. So that's a great place to play. Uh.

2295
01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:54,920
Speaker 1: Those are the first ones that popped to my mind. Yeah,

2296
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:57,480
Speaker 1: and how about the opposite? A couple of gigs that

2297
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:07,600
Speaker 1: you've been to that that I liked other bands you? Oh? Uh? Well,

2298
01:58:07,680 --> 01:58:10,520
Speaker 1: I saw it led Zeppelin back in the Atlanta Pop

2299
01:58:10,560 --> 01:58:17,600
Speaker 1: Festival and whenever that was when? Uh, that was impressive.

2300
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 1: I've seen the Beach Boys back in the day a

2301
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:24,680
Speaker 1: few times and they always blew me away. Um. Neil Young,

2302
01:58:24,720 --> 01:58:26,720
Speaker 1: I've seen him a couple of times out here in

2303
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:32,040
Speaker 1: l A from time to time. He's always great. Um,

2304
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:35,920
Speaker 1: those are the first thing that popped in my mind. Well, Mike,

2305
01:58:35,960 --> 01:58:37,880
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking the time. This

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01:58:37,960 --> 01:58:40,640
Speaker 1: has just been riveting. I could talk to you for days.

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01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:45,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for being so forthcoming. Thank you. I'm I'm a

2308
01:58:45,600 --> 01:58:47,560
Speaker 1: very grateful person and I have a right to be,

2309
01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, but thank you for your time. You asked

2310
01:58:50,960 --> 01:58:53,240
Speaker 1: the good questions and I hope I didn't go off

2311
01:58:53,240 --> 01:58:55,880
Speaker 1: on too many tangents, but I think it was good. No,

2312
01:58:56,280 --> 01:58:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, digression is a spice of life, and I

2313
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:02,360
Speaker 1: feel lucky that I've been able to have this conversation

2314
01:59:02,480 --> 01:59:05,880
Speaker 1: with you. Until next time, This is Bob leff sett

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Speaker 1: h