WEBVTT - What is ecoterrorism? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.079 learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:25.560 production of My Heart Radio, Hello, welcome back to the show. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.680 My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.080 me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.680 producer Paul Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.720 You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.360 don't want you to know. Earth Fire, Wind, Water, Heart, 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.680 Go Planet, although you're gonna make an Earth Wind and 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.400 Fire reference, but then you changed course midway and I 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.520 was on board again. I'm not on board with earth Fire, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.520 but I love me some Captain Planet right right. This 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:02.639 will be familiar to many many of our fellow listeners 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.479 who were based in the US. Captain Planet was an 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:10.920 animated series about these kids, these plucky young upstarts who 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.039 wanted to save the world with the help of their 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.800 superpowered friend, Captain Planet, the eponymous star of the show, 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.440 Uh Captain Plants gonna come up a couple of times 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.640 in today's episode. The topic of our show today has 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.600 been on our minds for a while because the facts 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.440 are written regardless of where you live, your country has 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:35.280 probably at some point been ground zero for a serious 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:42.200 environmental disaster. Oils bills, hurricanes, mass extinctions, forest fires, flooding, droughts, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.119 you name it, something has happened. And right now, at 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.280 the time of this recording, people across the planet have 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:53.120 tried to propose any number of solutions to these problems, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.360 and unfortunately, very few of these initiatives have met with 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.000 great success, and the world continues to degrade at an 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:05.880 unprecedented Paceum yeah, bummer. Indeed. I mean, you know, for 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.240 some people, maybe in the crowd today, this means that 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:15.040 drastic new tactics are needed. If you can't change the 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.320 system from within the system, then the system itself becomes 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.920 your enemy. So certain groups have decided to conspire to 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.680 act outside of the law in service of what they 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.799 see as a greater environmental good. And some folks will 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.880 call these people heroes. Other folks, as we'll find, will 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:39.680 call them terrorists. Here are the facts when before we 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:44.000 talk about the concept of so called eco terrorism, we 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.960 have to lay out some some depressing information. Uh, the 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.200 kind of thing that has made me actively subscribe to 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.400 the philosophy of optimistic nihilism. Uh, it doesn't matter who 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.720 you vote for, doesn't matter what kind of music you like, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.720 what kind of food you eat, what kind of clothes 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.360 you wear. The environment is screwed, I mean for all 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.120 in dens and purposes. And you don't have to be 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.800 like a super activists in this space, you know, some 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.480 kind of hippie living in its treehouse to agree with 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.440 that point. I mean, it's pretty clear, um that there 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.720 are some very very very serious and in many cases 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.320 irreversible problems with the environment. Well, yeah, we we learned. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.920 We did an episode not long ago, maybe actually it 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.880 was years ago now, but he was about specifically that 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.600 what the oil companies new when it came to climate 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.080 change and the effects that their companies were having on 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:42.160 that whole process. I mean, it's it's pretty much an 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:47.320 accepted fact that humans have at least pushed forward the 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.040 changing climate on Earth. Yeah. Absolutely, And a lot of 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:56.000 the arguments attempting to debunk studies about that were paid 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:00.640 by the corporations who were at least partially responsible. They knew, 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.920 they very much knew, and they just decided they're Q 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:08.440 four profits were you know, more important than their grandchildren 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.160 or the people who come after the current generation. Mammy, 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.920 climate change is accepted as a fact. Uh, the conspiracy 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.360 is that people tried to cover it up. So today 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.320 the real debates are the real like active debates in 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.240 this sphere, are the extent of the damage, like you're 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.360 alluding to, Matt, Like humans did something, how much did 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.440 they do? And then secondly, what is to be done 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.680 about this? And when do humans need to get off 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.880 their collective keysters and do something. I mean, you have 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.880 you know, international agreements and climate accords and you know, 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.000 um emission standards and things like that. But you're right, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.120 even stuff like that is super politicized and often you know, 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.559 a little bit toothless in terms of like how much 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.279 accountability the nations that are part of those agreements actually have. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.040 M And we're not you know, this is not necessarily 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.800 a hit piece on the authors of those declarations or 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:08.719 the proponents or signatories of those agreements. You're right. Well, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:13.680 for many, many years, the problem of environmental degradation was 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.480 a politically seen as a political opportunity. It was politicized. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.880 People who are out to make money. Consequences be damned 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:26.400 were quite successful leveraging the problems of human psychology. Right, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:31.000 and now, now the idea of your opinion about environmentalism 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.000 is inherently wrapped up in your concept of a tribe 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:39.800 and your membership in a tribe. But the thing is, like, okay, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.760 So people who are fighting for conservation, at least in 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.080 the US were often accused of being quote far left 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.960 radicals or the you know, the accusation was they were 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.400 unfairly attacking people who are just trying to earn a living, 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.920 put food on the dinner table, etcetera, etcetera, whatever kind 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:01.000 of political rhetoric was in vogue at the time. Dare 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.880 dare you say attacking a whole part of the country, right, 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.960 like Middle America, you know, it is under attack by 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.040 far left radicals because they're trying to get rid of 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.520 you know, um coal mining or you know, impose all 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.919 of these draconian standards on all of these stuff that 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:17.680 people just want to earn a living. I mean, And 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.960 of course at some level there's truth to that, like 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.000 in terms of people needing to earn a living, but 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:28.000 at what cost? Right? Also, economy is a religion. So 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.599 I'm just gonna keep saying that until somebody proves me wrong. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.400 But you guys are absolutely right. This this shift, this 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:40.880 politicization is very interesting if you are a student of history, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.080 because a great many conservation movements in the US and 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:50.080 abroad had fairly patrician, politically conservative roots, you know, like 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.960 the aristocracy would preserve land for their own purposes usually, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.960 or think of Teddy Roosevelt was a huge proponent of 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:03.240 conservation and vironmentalism, but he also liked to murder you 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.599 know things a lot. True, true, he did, he did, uh, 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:12.040 And right now a lot of large institutions are making 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.320 tons of profit because people are not aware of this 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.800 historical context. Right the conversation has evolved. Things weren't always 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.520 this way, sort of similar to how the Democrats and 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:30.120 Republicans so called of the like eighteen hundreds were way 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.760 different than the people you see calling themselves that today. 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.960 You have to look deeper into things to understand them. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:42.280 And regardless of where you find yourself on the political spectrum, 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:49.360 arguments that politicized climate change are usually either I'll say it, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.440 take a shot, cartoonishly ignorant, or they are made in 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:57.280 bad faith to mislead credulous people. You if you were 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.480 listening and you're human being, you need the same things 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.240 as all the people that you love or hate or 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:09.640 don't know across the planet. You know, you gotta breathe, right, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:12.000 that's one of the things. You want to eat food, 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.760 which means you need arable land or access to someone 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.040 who has that. You also need clean water. It's cool 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.400 to have shelter from the elements. These are like the base, 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.440 this is day one stuff. As they said at work, 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.600 allics and the and the problem is just too big 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.360 for any one single institution to solve it on its own. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.400 There are too many players involved. You could call them 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.959 stakeholders or whatever. But we're we're not just talking about 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:45.079 the almost eight billion people who rely on the ecosystem 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.120 to survive, which is you know, that's everyone. We're also 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:52.040 talking about the institutions that these people have formed throughout 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.559 history or will form in the future. Like um okay, 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.120 I I hate that we have to say this, but 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.240 we have to be fair, right, We talked about this 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:07.880 in the world without plastic, they're huge private industries that 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.920 you know, move billions and trillions of dollars depending on 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.360 how you slice it. And if you flip a switch 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.680 and you say, you know, like no more plastic more 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.840 CEO two emissions or something like that. They are going 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.200 to tank and they will drive millions of innocent people 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:29.000 with them into the ground. Too much change too soon 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:33.120 could be as dangerous has no change in the immediate future. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.320 If does that make sense? Oh? Absolutely, And we already 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.600 we alluded to that earlier in the episode, just when 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.600 talking about the whole problem in general of making one 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.040 massive change. And the other thing to take into account 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.480 here is that every country that exists has its own 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.040 kind of economy that functions based on the resources and 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.880 what's available within the land and sea that they own. Right, 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.240 And if you try and make a sweeping change on 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.319 every one of those countries and every one of those economies, 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.840 let alone the global economy, uh, you're gonna have major problems. 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.120 They're the same ones you just described, Ben, where one 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.679 one company goes down or an industry goes down in 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.360 a certain fishing you know area, let's say on the 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.720 northeast coast of the United States or you know of 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.520 North America. Um, you're gonna have major issues not only 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:27.000 in that area, but then that's gonna affect the rest 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.680 of the economy and the fishing economy anyway. It's a 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.440 bad example, but it's it's a major problem. Well, and 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.880 not only that, you have developing countries that are maybe 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.839 just now starting to become you know, um economic superpowers 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.600 are working their way up to it. And they're like, 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.720 what about all that time that you spent polluting, you know, 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.000 and getting to get up and running, and now you're 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.040 saying that we have to cut back because of all 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.079 the you know, greenhouse gases you put out, like over 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.720 the years, when we weren't like, that's not fair, that's 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.679 a that's a point I want to spend some time 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.040 on in a second, in every like we're on the 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.800 same page here, we might accidentally radicalize each other in 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.839 this episode, folks, which is fine. So you so we've 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.800 got the companies no matter if you love them, you 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.000 hate them, you think they're necessary evil. Uh, it would 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.520 be bad news if they all of a sudden had 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.880 to flip a switch and stop. The economic consequences would 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.720 be unprecedented. Those two almost two hundred un recognized countries, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.000 they've each got their own vibes, often contradictory goals. They're 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.680 not going to be super great at cooperating. And then 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.240 especially now to steal a line from Fox News. Now 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.480 more than ever, you have incredibly wealthy individuals, each of 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.640 whom also has their own agenda, and they are capable 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:51.400 of affecting these conversations at every single step along the way. 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.800 If you are listening to today's show, odds are you 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.160 can't do a thing to stop any of those three 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.680 um categories of ventity. You can try to make your 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:06.280 voice heard, but the traditional channels, it's gonna be tough. 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:10.160 Not everybody gets to be Greta Thunberg. You know, Uh, 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.640 there's a prisoner's dilemma here at play as well. No 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.280 one wants to get left behind. Logically, no one wants 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.200 to commit to a decision or a policy that will 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.840 leave them at a disadvantage. Very basically, why would you? 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.240 You know, Like I was trying to think of some 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.960 examples and I just came up with some hypothetical ones. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.120 So I was trying to think of like a really 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.440 big corporation, and I just pulled Uni Lever out of 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:40.080 Scullies cranium over there. And let's say you're let's say 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:45.360 you're Noelan Matt and you are the heads of Uni Lever, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.120 and you know that a lot of let's Let's say 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:51.480 you make a lot of stuff that uses palm oil, 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.120 and you know that the palm oil industry is very 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.440 damaging to the ecosystems in which it's harvested. But you 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.600 also know that if you decide to get some good 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.319 pr and say, okay, we're cutting out all palm oil 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.720 products and we're an international corporation, so we're gonna make 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.440 a splash with this, you know what's going to happen. 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.560 If you do that, You're gonna lose billions of dollars 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:19.679 pretty quickly, and worse, your competitors are going to move 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.360 into that space lickety split. So the problem is going 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.360 to continue and you just won't be making money off 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.600 of it. That is what will happen. Yeah, it's like 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.880 like Lego, for example, they're not going to stop using plastic, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.480 but they did make a gesture and saying they're gonna 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.800 phase out plastic bags in their packaging. So it's like 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.640 that's sort of the middle ground of pr opportunity there. 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.560 Because your Lego, it's such a hit to your supply, 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:45.920 you can't what are you gonna make it out of? 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.920 Like seashells, Like, you know, you've got to figure something out, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.160 and that's a much more long term problem to figure 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.040 out a material that they can actually integrate into their 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.680 supply chain to replace plastics and oil based products. So 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.040 instead they're like, well, we know that this problem, but 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.560 we're lego. We gotta have your legos. So let's just 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.880 you know, make the bags out of paper, you know. 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.400 Or I think McDonald's even is like they're happy meal 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.000 toys are not made of plastic anymore. They're made of paper, 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.600 but they're also gonna still have plastic straws. Right, Yeah, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.080 there's I mean, it's it's true. It really is a 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.880 pickle because these the folks are in charge of these 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:25.920 decisions are trying to mitigate damage, but they're trying to 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.480 mitigate it in a way that is sustainable for their enterprise, 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.240 if not sustainable for the planet and the scale of 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.040 time that that is one of the biggest complicating factors here. 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.120 Let's say, okay, let's say your Paul Mission controlled decond 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:46.880 you are the ruler of Let's give Paul Transylvania. It's like, okay, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.600 also love that he's the ruler. He's just the ruler 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.560 of it, you know, with a with a very tasteful 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:58.160 iron fist mission control rules Transylvania. And as the leader 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.360 of this country, he knows that his nation depends upon 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.600 certain industries that are damaging to the environment. Maybe it's mining, 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.640 maybe it's oil and rare earth minerals, whatever. Maybe it's 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.640 a mono agriculture in just exports one thing and that's 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.360 what most of the arable land is used for. So uh, 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.440 dear leader Paul Decans says, Okay, I could end these industries, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.480 and if I do, then Transylvania will play a role 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:32.120 in making the world arguably a better place decades from now. 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.720 I won't be around to see it. Instead, I will 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.840 be the scapegoat. I will be public enemy number one. 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.000 I'll be the guy who tanked to the economy and 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.440 put the population in the poorhouse and out of work. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.640 That also is the calculus that a lot of world 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.640 leaders use, and they're not wrong. Is the problem. So 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.400 they're still mine asbestos and parts of Russia, you know, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.240 because there's that What does that whole town asked us, 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.680 I believe something like that. That that is that's literally 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.840 they're they're one industry um and everyone that's they're doing 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.440 that job is okay with doing that job, so they 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.320 keep putting it out. What else are you gonna do? 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:17.280 You know? Uh, these are broad kind of aside from Russia, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.040 which is a real world example, these are broad hypothetical examples, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.800 but we guarantee you they are based in fact. And 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.040 so now the question becomes the same old question. Everybody 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.040 knows there's a problem, everybody knows something needs to be done. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.120 Can't we all just get along and agree on a solution? 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.360 Record scratch, no, actually no, we cannot. We will not. 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.240 As discussed earlier, many of the countries and entities that 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.720 are driving these conversations about environmentalism and preservation, they're coming 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.920 from a place of immense historical privilege. Like of course, 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.480 and this is not a thing on our British or 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.320 European friends in the audience today, but think about it. 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.800 Of course, the U K. And Western Europe can get 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:02.640 kind of high in my about the conversation around alternative 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.240 energy because they're still sitting pretty off untold trillions of 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.280 dollars of historical profits from the coal power of the 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:14.280 industrial age, to slavery to colonialism, all the other sins 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.520 of the past made them a lot of money and 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.840 gave them a lot of influence and they still have it. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.000 So of course, if you're an up and coming country, um, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.800 you'll sometimes hear them referred to as the brick countries. 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.760 It's a little bit of a misnomer, but it's an 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:31.280 acronym that stands for Brazil, Russia, India, and China countries 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.360 like on that level, of course, you're gonna be frustrated 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.159 if some if some grand puba from the U N 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.560 comes to you and says, Okay, yeah, I'll destroy the planet. 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.399 Was all fine and dandy for us, but you guys 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.600 are gonna need to find a different, more expensive route 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.280 to our level of success. Funny voice, take a drink. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.520 Was that a funny voice or was it my real voice? 0:17:54.920 --> 0:18:01.720 So it's it's tough, it's tough, and people here valid concerns. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.639 Big change rarely happens overnight, unless you're talking about like 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.560 POMPEII or another natural disaster. So, like you were talked 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.920 about earlier, Matt, things have to be phased in out 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:17.159 pretty slowly. This takes a huge level of commitment across administrations, 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:23.200 across governments, across continents, across generations, and it requires this 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.480 is even trickier thing. It requires everybody involved to imagine 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.280 a future that, for better or worse, does not yet exist. 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.760 We can just see the problems on the horizon. I 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.840 think I've got to I even have a note in 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.760 the outline, like, folks, we are past the tipping point. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.520 We are. I was talking with UM. We have a 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.200 good friend of the show, very old friend of Noel's, 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.840 named Matt Riddle, and Matt Riddle and I were talking 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:53.160 about this recently. Um, maybe the best analogy for where 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:57.680 human civilization and climate changes now is to say this 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.679 and freestyling a little. But let's say you're still, for 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:05.919 some reason driving that horrid Peugio Honda Odyssey hybrid we 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.160 made up earlier, and you have careened off the road. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.600 You were at the point in a car accident where 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.840 everything seems to slow down. You see the tree that 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.080 you're going to hit. You are going to hit the tree. Now, 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.640 it's just a question of how much time you have 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.399 to put your seatbelt on, whether you have time to 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.560 have an air bag or something like that. The car 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.000 crash is coming, and that's a scary thing for people 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:33.919 to think about. We don't want to think about it. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.200 But the statistics are all there. We've mentioned the multiple 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.120 times in past episodes. Uh, like parts of the world 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:45.360 are going to be uninhabitable without around the clock technology 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.240 creating a more hospitable environment. And it's just true. I 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.760 mean Tool predicted it in the song Anema, you know, 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:56.359 I mean what decades ago. California Bay, Yeah, Arizona Bay, Yeah, 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.000 Arizona Bay. But basically it's that whole, you know, pretty 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.600 accepted idea that parts of California are going to fall 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.960 into the ocean. And again this isn't fearmongering. I mean 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:12.359 you can find multiple, i mean innumerable resources that that 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.560 that show the stats heading in that direction. It's also 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.840 probably why California is like ground zero for so much concern, 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:23.399 you know, conservation environmentalist kind of activism, because they're like 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:28.119 really at risk. Yeah, and that that event is further 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.719 off in the future where California falls away because of 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:35.280 kind of strong tectonic movements. But the stuff we are 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:38.000 talking about is is very real, especially the ones where 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.479 places will be underwater. And uh, the drought situation and 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:47.120 desertification of places is going to continue pretty rapidly, very 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.879 very second. Yeah, and it's just gonna get worse as 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.000 time goes on. It's gonna happen in your lifetime if 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.440 you're listening now, But what you should be even more 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.479 concerned about will be your loved ones you continue after you. 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.840 Real estate is going to become a much more dicey proposition, 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.840 and countries like the Maldives, for instance, are probably going 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.440 to be underwater pretty soon. Climate refugees are going to 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.679 continue to flee from these sorts of these sorts of 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.600 large scale changes. Uh, we're talking millions of people, hundreds 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.520 of thousands, millions on the way to you. If you 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.240 live in a place that will still be habitable, things 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:31.040 are going to become increasingly expensive and then they're going 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:35.320 to become unavailable. And that's something that I would pose 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.760 it was a foreign concept to many people living in 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:45.639 the United States until COVID shortages hit, Like I don't 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:48.560 think a lot of folks in the US are aware 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.879 that in a lot of other places in the world, 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:57.200 you will run into situations where you stuff just isn't there. 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.639 The grocery store shelves are empty, even if you have money. 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.480 Not to mention resource wars, you know, on a larger 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.920 scale that's already a thing that happens. Like there were 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.520 water wars disputes, you know between I believe Georgia and 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.359 Tennessee if I'm not mistaken, um that you know, and 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.920 those are real problems in terms of like potable water 0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:20.520 and like who controls the resources, you know, I mean 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.119 not to get to doom and gloom, but like think 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:24.160 about how it was in mad Max Fury Road. That's 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.360 like the most extreme version of that. But I mean 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:29.800 water is it could be the most precious commodity of 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.760 them all. Yeah, and right now we're seeing legal battles, 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.040 you know, a lot of those situations, at least within 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.720 the United States, but those will quickly turn into more 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:43.840 intense situations, yes, hand to hand combat m h. And 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:45.359 if you want to if you want to look at 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:50.119 that going to the earlier idea of science fiction often 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:54.320 becoming fact nonfiction, do check out a great collection of 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.159 short stories called Pump six. One of those stories is 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.959 about is a pretty plot possible scenario about the future 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.800 of water and privatization. Or check out our episode on 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:09.719 World War three, our episode on water Wars, our YouTube 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:13.520 videos on it. The truth is out there, the facts 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.119 are in These are not these are not conspiracies. But 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:19.720 we're getting to the conspiracy. The big thing is conventional solutions, 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:23.800 as we've outlined, don't work. We can fill ours debating them, 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:27.280 their pros and cons They come in all sorts of forms. 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.880 You'll see the glossy pr pledges from insert company here, 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:34.920 Lego says this. McDonald says that you'll also see those 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:40.160 non binding resolutions from international organizations, you and committees. You'll 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.800 see any number of ted talks. You'll see sweeping declarations 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.280 from billionaires like Bill Gates says we need to fix 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.239 this or that or whatever. And to be clear, the 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.960 vast majority of those proposed solutions are made in good 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.840 faith and they're made by very intelligent people, but they 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.919 fall shorter their goals and they fade from the headlines. 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.240 It makes sense that they fade from the headlines because, 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:08.160 let's face it, the little conspiracy realist most people don't 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.880 like to think about the end of the world, especially 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.880 if they feel like they've got a pretty good right now. 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.560 They're also not sexy because they are long term solutions 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:20.920 that you know, people want instant gratification. So it's like, 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:23.639 you know, it's a lot to ask for people to 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:26.280