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Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of

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Speaker 1: your hosts, Jana Kramer, and today is a very exciting

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Speaker 1: episode because we talk a lot about celebrities and what's

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Speaker 1: going on in their lives. But today I wanted to

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Speaker 1: bring in my own real life, regular divorced single friend

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Speaker 1: who's amazing and open to finding love. So everyone, welcome

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Speaker 1: Pamelin onto the podcast. Having So I'm just so excited

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Speaker 1: about this for a few reasons. One because I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I love I love doing the show when I'm able

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Speaker 1: to come on and interview people. But and this is

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Speaker 1: no offense, like to the Bachelorette people out there, the models,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we love Kelly Bensimone, we love her. I

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Speaker 1: mean she's a she's a beautiful, stunning model, and you

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Speaker 1: know she is going through her her journey of you know,

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Speaker 1: being divorced and finding love. And we've got Bachelorettes and

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Speaker 1: bachelorett you know, so it's like love all of them. Sure,

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Speaker 1: But I had this thought when we I mean, you're

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Speaker 1: my best friend, yes number one. Number two, We're walking

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Speaker 1: and I'm I've obviously been on this journey with you,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, why isn't Pamelin on I do part

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Speaker 1: two because this is again no offense to the to

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Speaker 1: the other amazing hosts that we've had on here, in

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Speaker 1: the celebrities that we've had on here. But you are

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Speaker 1: dealing with this not in you know, not like that

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Speaker 1: didn't you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to say, not.

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Speaker 3: In the public I am most real, normal person view

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Speaker 3: of you know, what's really happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it's for me I relate more

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Speaker 1: to people that are really going through it and not

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Speaker 1: in the public eye. Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that sometimes when you're in the public eye,

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Speaker 3: you do have a different experience because you may be

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Speaker 3: more accessible to more people, right because your story's out there, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean you.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to say it, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, more people maybe would have found me from

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Speaker 1: It's like I found my husband on Instagram because he

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Speaker 1: found you know so.

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Speaker 3: And at this point it it kind of comes down

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Speaker 3: to a numbers game.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of things are numbers games.

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Speaker 1: I had to date a lot of people. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: do find the right one, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And you start to you know, figure out what you

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Speaker 3: actually want instead of you know, just trying to have

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Speaker 3: somebody choose you, or you be the one that somebody likes, Like, no,

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Speaker 3: what exactly do I want?

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Speaker 1: Well, so we're obviously going to talk about dating because

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Speaker 1: that is one of our hot topics on our walks

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Speaker 1: around the neighborhood because we're also I don't want we're

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Speaker 1: best friends, but we're neighbors, and so we go on

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Speaker 1: walks and I'm hearing it all and we're going to

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Speaker 1: to talk about all that. But first I want to

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Speaker 1: back up because I know Pamelin and I am honored

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Speaker 1: to know you. But I want other people listening, and

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Speaker 1: I also want a potential suitor to be hearing this too,

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Speaker 1: to get a little piece into who you are, what

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Speaker 1: has been your journey thus far and before the dating world.

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Speaker 1: So let's back it up. I give us the where

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Speaker 1: are you from? Along remarried, let's do it?

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Speaker 2: Do it well.

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Speaker 3: I'm originally from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I'm very proud of that.

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Speaker 3: You also know the version of Pittsburgh Pam and she

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Speaker 3: comes out.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you about Pittsburgh Pam. She's a good

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Speaker 1: friend to have.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I have these kind of blue collared

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Speaker 3: roots and then I came here to Nashville from Los Angeles.

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Speaker 3: I lived there for eleven years and that's where I

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Speaker 3: met my ex husband and I had my two beautiful

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Speaker 3: daughters there and we moved here in twenty nineteen. I

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Speaker 3: was married for ten years.

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Speaker 1: And you had quite a dating history too, I mean,

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Speaker 1: with the fact that you didn't really.

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Speaker 2: Date a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: True. Yeah, I since as far as I can remember,

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Speaker 3: I've just been very intentional about dating or boyfriends. I

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Speaker 3: would have a boyfriend for three four years and then

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't date at all for three four years. It

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Speaker 3: was kind of like it was just something I would

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Speaker 3: feel an energy, and then I just knew that it

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Speaker 3: was going to be it. And if I didn't have

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Speaker 3: that feeling, I just didn't entertain. I didn't need to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, going on dates. I was building my career.

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Speaker 3: I had amazing friendships, and so it wasn't ever really

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Speaker 3: anything that I felt like I had to have if

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Speaker 3: it fell into my lap, and you know, it was

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Speaker 3: an amazing experience. I totally put forth all of my

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Speaker 3: effort into that, but it was never it was really

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Speaker 3: always always quality over quantity, for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I mean I really only had I don't know

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Speaker 3: because I know the hockey. There was a hockey guy.

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Speaker 3: There was a football right. I mean I had a

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Speaker 3: really I had a four and a half year relationship,

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Speaker 3: and he was financed, he was not exactly, but and

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Speaker 3: we lived together and we had a business together and

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Speaker 3: all the things. Yeah, when I thought about my future,

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Speaker 3: I just didn't think that he was going to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, the one to love me like I wanted

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 2: Loved, which is interesting in hindsight. In hindsight, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: I mean it was crazy. I lived together. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I loved his family, It was.

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Speaker 3: It was great in a lot of ways, which I

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Speaker 3: don't think he was capable of loving me enough.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that's a.

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Speaker 3: Big takeaway with a lot of people trying to like

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Speaker 3: navigate this whole world, is you can have beautiful relationships,

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Speaker 3: you can really really want that person in your life forever,

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Speaker 3: but if they are not capable of meeting we're meeting

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Speaker 3: you where you're at, then there's this just lost hope

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Speaker 3: and then we're wasting time and we're we're wanting somebody

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Speaker 3: to give us something that they cannot give us. And

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Speaker 3: you know, we have to get out of that cycle

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Speaker 3: and really understanding like what is, what are they capable of?

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Speaker 3: What can they do instead of just like romanticizing or

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Speaker 3: being excited about the potential.

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Speaker 2: Right of somebody.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that an interesting thought though, because that's the majority

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Speaker 1: of why we get divorced, is because they can't meet

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Speaker 1: our needs. Yeah, so really what we're wanting you realizing

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Speaker 1: the person that you pick didn't meet your needs. I

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Speaker 1: mean my ex husband didn't meet my needs obviously, sure,

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Speaker 1: And I.

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Speaker 3: Think you know, a lot of that does come down

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Speaker 3: to communication too. So if we are not properly communicating,

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Speaker 3: you know, to somebody what exactly we need, and especially

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Speaker 3: to men, we almost have to like lay it out

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Speaker 3: in bullet points, like on a silver platter and hand

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Speaker 3: it to them and say, you know, this is actually

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Speaker 3: what I need, and a lot of men will then

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Speaker 3: give it to you. I mean, if you're really laying

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Speaker 3: it out. I mean some you know, of course some

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Speaker 3: are not going to. But we cannot expect anybody to

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Speaker 3: read our minds and know what we want because we

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Speaker 3: all are so different. And so maybe in a past relationship,

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Speaker 3: a woman or a man needed X, Y and Z,

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Speaker 3: Well we're not the same person and so I think

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Speaker 3: that when it comes down to it, it's the communication

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Speaker 3: that is first lacking that then causes you know, the

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Speaker 3: needs aren't being met.

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Speaker 1: To back up to when you met your ex. And

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Speaker 1: again this I don't want this pod. This isn't about

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Speaker 1: him and y'all just divorce. This is about you and

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Speaker 1: your journey. But I'm just curious to see because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that listen are around that thirty to

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Speaker 1: forty age range, which if they don't have kids, they're

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Speaker 1: wanting to have kids. And I always kind of wonder.

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Speaker 1: And I've never asked you this, so you can pass

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Speaker 1: if you want, but for me, and I've spoken openly

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Speaker 1: about this, where I looked away from flags because I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a mom. You know, I still think

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Speaker 1: I probably would have ended up with my ex just

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Speaker 1: because I was so I didn't think I deserved certain things.

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Speaker 1: But I truly, at my core, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: need to be a mom, and this is my best

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Speaker 1: option that I have right here, as I you know,

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Speaker 1: as at thirty. And what's so sad is now I

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Speaker 1: look back, I'm like, man, thirty.

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Speaker 2: So young, Yeah, you know, so young.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, like you you and you don't realize

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Speaker 1: how fast things can change on a dime at thirty four,

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Speaker 1: thirty five years. So it's like but it was a

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Speaker 1: true like, well, I do want I want kids, and

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Speaker 1: I thought I'd already have kids because I come from

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Speaker 1: Michigan and all my friends have like five year olds

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Speaker 1: and six year old at this point now, And oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, So I'm just curious for you. Obviously there

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Speaker 1: was love for your ex. But when you step aside

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Speaker 1: from that, do you look at it and go, maybe

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Speaker 1: I looked away from certain things because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a mom because you have two beautiful children.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and you're an amazing mom. Thank you? Do you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean? Yeah? And you know, I I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure about that.

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Speaker 3: I was never the person that was so obsessed with

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Speaker 3: being a mom. I just trusted that, like my path

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Speaker 3: was going to kind kind of aligne for me. And

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Speaker 3: then I mean it is true. Mean I didn't meet

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Speaker 3: you know, my ex husband too. I was thirty three,

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Speaker 3: so I was you know, there's that subconscious time clock

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Speaker 3: that is going on in your head.

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Speaker 2: We also had a really.

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Speaker 3: Fast dating period before engagement in marriage, so that was

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Speaker 3: like really fast. We just kind of you know, really

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Speaker 3: fell for each other. We were both from Pennsylvania and

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Speaker 3: it was just like this awesome kind of we came

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Speaker 3: from the same mold connection and so, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if I thought like that. I think so

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Speaker 3: many of us when we find our you know, first husbands, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean at this age or got one or three.

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Speaker 3: So I don't think and I didn't. I don't think

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Speaker 3: we go into it. I mean I was going at

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Speaker 3: it as a whole pay sure, like this was amazing,

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Speaker 3: this was you know, my love, this was my this

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Speaker 3: was you know, going to be the father of my children,

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Speaker 3: like this was my forever. I don't recall going into it,

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Speaker 3: you know, hesitant about anything. And I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of people, right, we don't go into marriage thinking it's

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Speaker 3: going to be not the one. We don't go and

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Speaker 3: thinking it's going to be a divorce. I remember my

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Speaker 3: mom telling me that because my parents are divorced, and

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Speaker 3: she said, Pam, you know I didn't marry your dad

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Speaker 3: thinking I was going to divorce him.

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Speaker 2: Like I married him like this is the greatest man ever.

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Speaker 3: So so that's kind of you know, yeah, the plan

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Speaker 3: was clearly to never get divorced, but here we are.

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Speaker 1: Right, and looks you know. It's interesting too because we're

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Speaker 1: two obviously very different people when it comes to what

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Speaker 1: we share and what we don't share. And even when

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Speaker 1: I was married to my ex, when I would bring

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Speaker 1: up like, you didn't talk about your marriage Hardie at all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know there were any issues ever,

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Speaker 1: you know, which then leads me to shocked when and

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Speaker 1: nobody knows the story. So this is a am I

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Speaker 1: allowed to share. Sure, I had just met Alan and

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Speaker 1: I just met, but you know, we were dating, and

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Speaker 1: then I got pregnant, and I remember and are obviously

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Speaker 1: so close, but I remember there was this distance, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did I do something wrong? And I just

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Speaker 1: kept thinking, like, what did I do wrong? Pam's not

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Speaker 1: really talking to me. This is so weird and I

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Speaker 1: don't understand, and so I just kept thinking I did

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Speaker 1: something wrong. So I'm like, okay, but I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say anything, but should I? And then I'm also

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Speaker 1: like trying not to vomit every two seconds because I'm pregnant,

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Speaker 1: trying to like not tell everybody.

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Speaker 2: Obviously you knew, but and I yeah.

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Speaker 1: So then as the summer goes on, you came over

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Speaker 1: to our airbnb that we were at and uh, you

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Speaker 1: can't move into the new house, and You're like, I

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Speaker 1: have to talk to you, and I'm like, here it is,

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Speaker 1: she's breaking up with me. I don't know why or

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Speaker 1: what I did. And I'm like, I've at this. I

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Speaker 1: at this point, I feel looking at it, Huntse, I

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Speaker 1: feel so bad because I was I made so about

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Speaker 1: me and like what I did wrong? I should have looked,

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Speaker 1: you know, asked you, but you literally said are you

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Speaker 1: breaking up?

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Speaker 2: I didn't and sat down.

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Speaker 1: You're like, so I have to talk to you. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I don't know what I did, but

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Speaker 1: are we breaking up? Because and that's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: That's what I felt. And instead of why didn't I

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Speaker 1: come to you and ask you? Are you okay? But

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Speaker 1: you said, well, I think it took me like twenty minutes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is I'm like, does tell me you hate me? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I couldn't spit it out right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just said I still remember that, Like I

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Speaker 3: think you know, I just said three words, maybe two words,

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Speaker 3: I'm divorced, and you said like past tense.

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Speaker 2: I was like celerity D like I was shocked. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm divorced. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: What And then I then I felt terrible because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you went through this like you were, like you said,

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Speaker 1: nobody knew, you told nobody that's your therapist, only that.

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Speaker 1: And then I just felt awful because I'm like, man,

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Speaker 1: I should have asked if I have a question, if

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Speaker 1: I would have asked if you and your ex were okay,

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Speaker 1: Like do you think you would have said or no?

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Speaker 3: I don't know because this was this is my what

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Speaker 3: was happening in my brain at that time.

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Speaker 1: Talk to talk to us, so tell us a thought process.

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Speaker 1: And I am very aware that I am unique in

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Speaker 1: this way and it's not for everybody, but it works

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Speaker 1: for me. So this is how I roll. Okay.

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Speaker 3: I didn't talk to anybody about it because you know,

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Speaker 3: I needed to maintain joy in every other aspect of

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Speaker 3: my life life that I could, and I didn't want

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Speaker 3: people to know because then it would have been the

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Speaker 3: constant topic of conversation and everybody would have been asking me,

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Speaker 3: are you okay? What's going on now? I would be

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Speaker 3: walking to the bus stop, everybody's thinking, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: she's sad, she's going through a divorce, and so I

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Speaker 3: wanted to maintain some sense of normalcy in my life

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Speaker 3: and know that I can go and you know, hang

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Speaker 3: out with you and all of our friends and.

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Speaker 2: Just be normal.

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Speaker 3: And I've always been the type of person that I

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Speaker 3: trust my brain so much. I trust the thoughts in

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Speaker 3: my head more than not against anybody else, but more

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Speaker 3: than anybody can give me advice on. And so what

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Speaker 3: my friends, you know, didn't realize is they were supporting

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Speaker 3: me more than they ever could by just being normal,

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Speaker 3: just being you know, there for me.

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Speaker 2: And so that's just how I went through it.

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Speaker 3: And I mean maybe part of it was just it

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Speaker 3: was painful to talk about, you know, I didn't want

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Speaker 3: to talk about I mean, and that stuff's painful, and

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Speaker 3: so I just sat in my emotions and I just

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Speaker 3: sat in my feelings, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, just kind of.

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Speaker 3: I think it's helpful when you don't have other people

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Speaker 3: in their opinions and their voices constantly in your head.

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Speaker 3: I think you have to be alone in your in

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Speaker 3: your thoughts a lot of the time, and I think

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Speaker 3: that people don't take that time to do that, and

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Speaker 3: so I I know it was weird, but I'm proud

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Speaker 3: of myself for doing it like that.

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Speaker 1: I just think we all felt bad and I hear

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Speaker 1: what you're saying that we or did you without really

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Speaker 1: even knowing. But I also know how devastating divorces and

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Speaker 1: the like guttural tears and the sadness, And to know

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Speaker 1: that you went through that alone, that just makes me

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Speaker 1: sad as a friend that I couldn't like you laid

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Speaker 1: in bed with me while I would scream cry, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's like you were alone doing that, And that

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Speaker 1: still makes me sad to this day that you It

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Speaker 1: makes me sad knowing that you were alone through that.

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Speaker 3: I am a little bit sad for that version of myself,

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Speaker 3: like when I look back, but I think just at

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Speaker 3: that moment, it was just I was just doing the

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Speaker 3: best that I thought, you know, was good for like,

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Speaker 3: you know, my mental health, for my kids, for you know,

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Speaker 3: all that stuff, and just yeah, not involving anybody else there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So when she said that, obviously there was sadness that

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Speaker 1: I felt for you because a little relief that you

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Speaker 1: weren't breaking up with me, you broke up with someone else.

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Speaker 1: And then my third thing was is I was like,

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Speaker 1: damn it, Pam, why couldn't you do this when I

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Speaker 1: was getting divorced, we would have been on fire in

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Speaker 1: Miami together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were totally opposite trajectories. You were pregnant as

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Speaker 3: could be, and I was yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Was like, I need to do it.

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Speaker 1: But then I'm like, well, so we would have gotten

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Speaker 1: in too much trouble. But you know now that is

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Speaker 1: so okay. So to wrap that piece up looking back,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the Obviously you went through it

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Speaker 1: different than probably most did. Is there anything for women

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Speaker 1: that are going through a divorce that you found solace in?

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Speaker 3: I think I just kept trusting the Universe's plan for

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Speaker 3: me and knowing that I there's only two things I

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Speaker 3: can control in this world, and it is how I

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Speaker 3: treat myself and how I treat other people. And I

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Speaker 3: cannot control any other part of my surroundings, my environment,

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Speaker 3: and so I just put my head down. You guys,

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Speaker 3: I took care of myself. I built a company from

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Speaker 3: nothing while going through a divorce. I put my energy

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Speaker 3: into my children, and I just did not lose hope

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Speaker 3: in you know, like where I meant to be.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 3: Did I ever see this, you know, happening, or even

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Speaker 3: expect you know that I would be in that place, know,

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Speaker 3: but I just trust so much in this like beautiful

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Speaker 3: freaking world that I know that I am exactly where

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Speaker 3: I am supposed to be right now for what whatever

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Speaker 3: reason it is. And I don't even need to know

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Speaker 3: the reason. I just release all of that control. And

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it was was the craziest hardest

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Speaker 3: thing ever. But I think it did give me the

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Speaker 3: space and the almost the just determination to build this

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Speaker 3: freaking company. Now I'm scaling this company like all by myself,

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Speaker 3: you know, from nothing, And so I almost turned like

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Speaker 3: you know, a sad thing into as much of a powerful,

359
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Speaker 3: powerful finding my voice where I'm supposed to be type

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Speaker 3: of situation.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of women too, They always ask me,

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Speaker 1: when did you know? Was there a moment for you

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Speaker 1: where you were like either I don't want to spend

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Speaker 1: my life like this the rest of my or I

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Speaker 1: don't want.

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Speaker 2: What was it for?

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Speaker 1: Like I know that this is the right choice and

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Speaker 1: I'm making the right choice.

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Speaker 2: Was it a feeling? Was it a.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of women wrestle with that piece

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Speaker 1: of it, like how do you know, yeah that if

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Speaker 1: you're making the right decision or that this is.

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Speaker 2: Well I will say that I don't think that.

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Speaker 3: Many. I mean, I think there are a percentage, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think that many divorces.

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Speaker 2: Just just happen overnight.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I think a lot of the time it is

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Speaker 3: a slow burn, whether you want to admit it or not.

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Speaker 3: And I also think it's a situation where when you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it could be the littlest thing, it

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Speaker 3: could be the biggest thing, it could be you know,

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Speaker 3: a multitude of you know, kind of like again just

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Speaker 3: like you know, building up of things. Yeah, but was

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Speaker 3: there like some crazy pivotal moment.

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Speaker 2: Not really.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you say that, because that's that is so true.

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Speaker 1: There is this feeling when you just go and I'm

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Speaker 1: done and you and I always was wondering if I

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Speaker 1: would ever feel that, and then when you do, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that is what people always say. That feeling is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can't really explain it, and you can't go back

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Speaker 1: from it either. No, there's no take back button. It's

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Speaker 1: like or take back the feelings. You know that it's done,

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Speaker 1: and then you just gotta put your head down and

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Speaker 1: go through it.

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Speaker 3: Well, and you know, I mean, and it wasn't like,

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Speaker 3: oh it was just me saying I'm done. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there was a you know, a discussion, There was you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, a combination of both of us. So it

400
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Speaker 3: wasn't just like, you know, some type of situation like

401
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 3: that either. But yeah, I mean I think just maybe

402
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Speaker 3: two people realizing that maybe each other don't make the

403
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Speaker 3: other person, you know, as happy as they could as

404
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Speaker 3: they could be, and that everybody deserves to you know,

405
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Speaker 3: live in this rolled with an abundance of happiness and joy.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 1: That was you know, a bit of the backstory with

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Speaker 1: the divorce. But what I'm excited to talk about is

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Speaker 1: what's happening now. And I'm just loving this conversation. So

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Speaker 1: let's pause this one and let's do part two next week.