1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier, 6 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for? 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. All right, 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: we got some new numbers about just what a dramatic 14 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: increase we have seen in terms of grassroots labor organizing. 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: This is for Stephen Greenhouses. Is based on some new 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: government numbers. Let's go ahead and put this up on 17 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: the screen. So the NLRB, the National Labor Relations Board 18 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: that governs union elections, they announced this morning that during 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: the first nine months of federal fiscal year twenty twenty two, 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: so that's October one through June thirtieth, petitions for union 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: ELI elections jumped fifty six percent. They were up to 22 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: one thy nine hundred and thirty five the comparison from 23 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: the previous year. The previous amount of time was one thousand, 24 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty. He goes on to point out 25 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: that this increase comes during an absolute funding crisis for 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: the NLRB, something that the folks that are leading that 27 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 1: agency have been pointing to, and also staffing shortages. They've 28 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: received the same appropriation two hundred and seventy four million 29 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 1: dollars from Congress for nine straight years, so obviously every 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: year inflation is eating into that. By adjusting for inflation, 31 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: you actually come to find that the NLRB's budget over 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: that time period since twenty ten has decreased twenty five percent, 33 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: even as obviously the work that they have to do 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: is far far more. There's some more numbers here that 35 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: we can point to as well. Let's go ahead and 36 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: put this next piece up. So, in addition to union 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: elections being way up, unfair labor practices charges are up 38 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: to fourteen point five percent, from eleven thousand, four and 39 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: fifty one to thirteen one hundred and six. Now you 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: would kind of expect those metrics to go hand and glove, 41 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: because there's a lot of union illegal union busting that 42 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: goes on during union elections. But you know, it's also 43 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: you have basically one person in the entire Biden administration 44 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: who was really governing and doing an effective job, and 45 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: that person is at the National Labor Relations Board in 46 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: a key position, uh, pushing back on these captive meeting 47 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: captive meetings that are a routine part of union busting techniques, 48 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: captive audience meetings, pushing back on the modern idea that 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: it's not just enough to get a majority of workers 50 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: to sign cards, you have to go through with the election. 51 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: It used to be that the onus was on corporations 52 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: to prove that that wasn't a reflection of the majority 53 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: will of the bargaining unit. So she's pushing back on 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: that as well. But you know, it really does show 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: you that even as inflation is hurting workers, because you 56 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: have this labor market with low unemployment, you have a 57 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: lot more power in this world led movement. And I 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: think also that Sanders' campaign and the emphasis that he 59 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: put on labor for a younger generation has made a 60 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: big difference it's very interesting. I think my greatest worry 61 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: is that a lot of this is just reminiscent of 62 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one and that come recession, bargaining power 63 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: just disappears and the boss class, I mean, who rules 64 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: in the time of recession, it's the bosses. And the 65 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: bosses get to keep their jobs, they get to juice 66 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: the stock. You know, labor really only has power whenever thing. 67 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: They can get jobs elsewhere. But if the FAED increasingly 68 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: wants to hike on employment, what are you going to do. 69 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: There's just going to be a lot of not even scabs, 70 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: like just normal people. And you know, people can also 71 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: justify a lot of union retaliation could be justified as 72 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: cracking down or as responding to the A lot of 73 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: union retaliation can be justified as saying, oh bad at 74 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: market conditions, which we've seen before. I mean, it just 75 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: puts workers in a more desperate situation. Yeah, exactly. So. 76 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: Right now, the landscape is such that people aren't really 77 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: afraid so much of losing the job, so you can 78 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: afford to take the risk and vote for the union 79 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: election even as I mean Starbucks as one example, they've 80 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: closed a few stores that voted to unionize. Of course, 81 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: they say, has nothing to do with that. Oh yeah, okay, 82 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: And workers can take that risk because they know there's 83 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: another job at that similar pay structure that they can get. 84 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: The problem is not getting a job, it's getting a 85 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: good job. So workers see that landscape and they're like, 86 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: all right, we're going to take the risk. We're going 87 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: to try to organize here to make this job that 88 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: I have right now a better job. But you know, 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: this is part of what happened Bessemer, Alabama is a 90 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: perfect example with the Amazon warehouse there. You don't have 91 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: a lot of other employment in that area, certainly not 92 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: at that level, at that pay scale, and so it 93 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: made it much harder to organize there because workers didn't 94 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: feel that they had the luxury of taking the risk 95 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: to buck the boss class. So yeah, that is the 96 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: FED policy is a direct threat to this new labor organizing, 97 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: which I continue to view as the most hopeful thing 98 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: happening the entire country. I mean, we can't look to 99 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: the political class to solve our problems. I think that 100 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: is abundantly clear. Not that you should disengage from electoral 101 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: politics or any of that, but if you have what 102 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: happened in the thirties and how we ended up in 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: the New Deal era was in large part because you 104 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: had this very strong, very large, very embold and very 105 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: militant labor movement that basically forced the hand of the 106 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: politicians to get them to cut the working class in 107 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: on the deal. This is the only thing we have 108 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: going that could potentially create a similar situation. Let's just 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: hope it's not crushed in the cradle by the fence policy. 110 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: CNN's got a new strategy. They fired their terrible president. 111 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: They've said that they're going to be less partisan. They're 112 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: going after the middle of the road. They've got the 113 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: new boss. They're trying to tamper down all of the 114 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: crazy stuff in their chirons. Not overuse the breaking news banner, 115 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: but inside CNN employees are quote freaking out over bad ratings. 116 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. It's especially hilarious. 117 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: They say that they're freaking out because the ratings are 118 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: absolutely tanking. They blame actually the new strategy of trying 119 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: to appeal to Republicans, and in a way, you know, 120 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: I think they may not be wrong, which is that 121 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: because they're terrible ratings which did exist. We're so reliant 122 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: on bashing Republicans and on trying to play to mainstream 123 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: Democrats all the time. By ditching that, they've already had 124 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: a situation where Republicans don't trust them and are never 125 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: coming back, and then they're also going to lose and 126 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: betray their core audience. So they really are between a 127 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: rock and a hard place. I don't see how they 128 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: could possibly come back, like, there's no way that strategy 129 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: is going to work. It's impossible. The trust is gone. 130 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: This is what I've said from the beginning is I 131 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: have seen how this played out before. At I'MSNBC, they 132 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: had the same idea of we're going to bring in 133 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: the NBC news people, it's going to be neutral journalism, 134 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: which again I don't have an issue with partisan or 135 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: ideological journalism. I have an issue with dishonesty and lying 136 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: and carrying water for the powerful. That's the problem. I 137 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: have a sly inn IMSMEBC and Fox News, and one 138 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: of the sources who I guess talked to New York 139 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: Post said, in terms of their concerns over the strategy, 140 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: the problem is we're not a neutral country. The ratings 141 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: are getting worse because they are taking out all the 142 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: bells and whistles. That's very telling, isn't it. CNN's ratings 143 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: are as bad as local news ratings. They say new 144 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: management is not freaking out, but everyone else at CNN is. 145 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: They want to fix the shows first, but they don't 146 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: realize the shows and ratings are connected. And this was 147 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: all in response to ratings for the network hit a 148 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: low not scene since the year two thousand, just a 149 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: few weeks ago. So yeah, that's what's going to happen. 150 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: The ratings are gonna tank because they're not giving this 151 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: like feeding the infotainment beast in the way that they were. 152 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: Trump is gonna come back on the scene like imminently. 153 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: I mean he's gonna be back in presidential contention here 154 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: in mere weeks, days, months, very very soon. And the 155 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: people who lean the most into the previous model are 156 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: the ones who once again are going to get the 157 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: highest ratings. And they're going to look at the writing 158 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: and the numbers on the wall, and that's the direction 159 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: they're going to go in. I think there's inevitable that 160 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: they cave, that they go in this direction. Just the 161 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: current strategy is not going to work whoever these guys 162 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: are who are like, oh, you know, it's all fake 163 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: because the Biden administration is currently there. When they have 164 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: their villain, the audience will come back, at least, even 165 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: though it's small, like it will come back and they'll 166 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: make enough money and they'll get caught up in the 167 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: mailstrom and they'll be right back to square one. But 168 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: luckily this show will still be here, so we'll be okay. 169 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: All right, Hey, guys, this is Ken Klippenstein, investigative reporter 170 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: with the Intercept with Jonathan Geyer, senior foreign policy writer 171 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: for Vox. He had a very insightful story on the 172 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: robust lobbying presence that Ukraine has here in Washington that 173 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: I think is evident to folks in this town, but 174 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: is invisible to a lot of people outside of it. 175 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about what you found. 176 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Ken. So I've been in Washington 177 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: throughout this really heinous assault on Ukraine that Vladimir Putin 178 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: has launched, and there is just an unprecedented lobbying campaign 179 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: from the Ukrainians. Now totally understandable. They want to get 180 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: the right weapons in the hands of Ukrainians, but by 181 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: my count there are twenty four registered lobbyists for Ukraine 182 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: at the moment, or Ukrainian entities a twenty fifth actually 183 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: in response to my reporting now, so they've sent parliamentarians, 184 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: human rights activists, corruption activists are part of me anti 185 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: corruption activists to meet with all the kind of influencers 186 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: in Washington to really shape the narrative about Ukraine. The 187 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: weapons they need, and the requests are incredibly specific. They 188 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: want drones, they want to have sixteen. So part of 189 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: my reporting was just looking at what is Ukraine asking 190 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: for and who's asking. The most interesting or kind of 191 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: quirky thing is most recently, Ukraine sent two fighter jet 192 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: pilots to Washington to meet with reporters, to meet with 193 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: Sean Penn to go on TV and I don't know, 194 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: I mean, we are the country that made top Gun twice. 195 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, so fighter jet pilots. It's a 196 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: color narrative. And I think the notion was, you know, 197 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: bluinstters of Washington, we're getting bored of hearing from politicians 198 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: from Ukraine. They wanted to hear from jet fighters on 199 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: the front line. So I had the pleasure of having 200 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: dinner with two of these fighter pilots. But what was 201 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: a little murky was the pr agency that was hosting 202 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: them was not officially registered to lobby for Ukraine. We 203 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: have something called FARAH, the Foreign Agent Registration Act. You 204 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: have to register, and what FARAH experts have told me 205 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: is that in the lead up to the war this fall, 206 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: there were about ten thousand contacts made between Ukrainian lobbyists 207 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: and folks in Washington and the ED And just to 208 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: give folks a sense of proportion here, that is greater 209 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: than the lobbying you see from states like Saudi Arabia, 210 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: which you know itself has an extremely robust life. And 211 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: you guys at the Intercept have done a huge amount 212 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: of reporting on this. It's super interesting. And we won't 213 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: get the new numbers about since the February and that's 214 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: what's fascinating to me about that story. So when you 215 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: say ten thousand contacts with journalists, members of Congress, think tanks, 216 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: that's prior to the invasion, correct exact. So even know 217 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: what it is yet because it hasn't been reported yet 218 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: what the figures are now exactly. And one of the 219 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: really interesting things is we have about two thousand foreign 220 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: agents registered to lobby on behalf of foreign countries, foreign entities. 221 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: In the US, I spoke with Department of Justice officials. 222 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: There's just over a dozen Department of Justice officials monitoring 223 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: this whole area, which all foreign lobbying. It comes down 224 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: to twelve guys and a couple interns. That's what it 225 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: makes me that you were able to get that on 226 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: record from the Justice Department, the figures, because I had 227 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: always assumed they didn't have, you know, the resources they needed, 228 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: as the Justice Department doesn't in many respects, but twelve 229 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: for a country like hours where you know, it's probably 230 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: gonna be one the most intensely lobbied government on the earth. 231 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: And I would say, like, look, none of this is 232 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: I legal If you're registered, right, Farah doesn't regulate free speech, 233 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: speech is still free. We're the United States and we're 234 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: a powerful country. We're giving, you know, this staggering amount 235 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: of military aid to Ukraine. And what my reporting was 236 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: trying to do is just shed light on what are 237 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: the sources of influence part of this Ukrainian campaign? What 238 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: are the levers being pulled? And I don't think we 239 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: yet have the complete picture. So in your story, you 240 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: describe attending this fancy dinner where these two jet pilots 241 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: who you know, are go buy their call signs to 242 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: Juice and Moonfish. Juice and Moonfish, very romantic. Yeah, And 243 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: so what ends up happening after you look up this 244 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: organization that organized this fancy dinner that a bunch of 245 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: other journalists attended, and you see if they registered under Pharaoh. 246 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: So they haven't registered as far as I could tell. 247 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: So I called up their their founder, their CEO. I 248 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: asked them if if if they were going to register 249 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: for working on Ukraine. The founder says, hold on, let 250 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: me call you right back. And you know, as I 251 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: say in the story, at advice of her counsel, she 252 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: decided to register. I haven't seen that filing yet, but 253 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's due every day any day now. So 254 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: that number changed by one the whatever. So yeah, exactly. 255 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: That's incredible, And that kind of speaks to how informally 256 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: this loss or of works in my experience, like how 257 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: much discretion. That's another interesting quote that you managed to 258 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: get in this story was the Justice Department just openly saying, 259 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: you know, if the country that individual is lobbying or 260 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: a group is lobbying on behalf of is an adversary 261 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: nation or a national security concern, We're going to bring 262 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: more resources or more concerned to bear in terms of 263 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: getting them to register and being concerned. And that's kind 264 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: of interesting to me because on the one hand, you know, 265 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: that kind of makes sense. You know, the Chinese, the 266 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: Russians are going to have, you know, potentially more malevolent 267 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: interests in terms of what's going on in the United States. 268 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, that discretion is concerning to 269 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: me just because to give you an example, I know 270 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: an army officer that was advising a group, a political 271 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: group in Lebanon, advising them on how to pursue diplomatic 272 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: channels to try to This was like years ago, I 273 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: remember exactly what the conflict was. And he told me 274 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: that his lawyer advised him, he says, you should really 275 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: register under Pharah. And he said, well, why I'm not 276 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: taking direction from them and telling them like how you 277 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: try to, you know, go through the international system to 278 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: try to pursue a diplomatic solution to whatever the problems 279 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: at the time. And he said, well, you know, this 280 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: party in Lebanon is not liked by the United States, 281 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: and so there's gonna be more risk that they're gonna, 282 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, come after you and say, hey, you have 283 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: to reisure or you know, find you or something. And 284 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: so that discretion, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean I mean, 285 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, if you're defending something horrible, it's one thing. 286 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: But I would imagine there are cases where you could 287 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: be pursuing something that's not necessarily malevolent. And then you know, 288 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: if it's just one of these countries that the US 289 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: is not on good terms with, that, you know you're 290 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: gonna be you know, you're gonna be more anxious about Well, 291 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: this law, I mean, yes, it requires the affirmative kind 292 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: of reporting of foreign lobbying agents, but it's also maybe 293 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: just not really suited for twenty twenty two. This is 294 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: a nineteen thirty eight law. It doesn't really work for 295 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: tweets or Facebook posts or all the other forms of 296 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: media that didn't exist when this was meant to kind 297 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: of identify Nazi or Soviet propaganda, right, and this is 298 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: what nineteen nineteen thirty six, nineteen thirty eight, Yeah, exactly. 299 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: And by the way, there were only about seven prosecutions 300 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: under this law until the mid two thousands, So over 301 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: fifty years, about seventy people got in trouble for violating parah. 302 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: Then in the Trump era, all these people from his 303 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: inner circle are working, you know, Michael Flynn working for 304 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: the Turks, Manafort working for pro Russian interests in Ukraine, 305 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: all this stuff unregistered, getting into huge trouble. So now 306 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: it's a headline making law on issue, but really it's 307 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: pretty obscure, and I was just glad to give it 308 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more intention. Yeah. Well, so after the 309 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: case of Manifort, who I believe was prosecuted in relation 310 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: to parah, was it did you find that has there 311 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: been a change in terms of compliance? Because my understanding 312 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: is a farah has always been something that there's not 313 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: been very much compliance with. People are definitely thinking about 314 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: it more, and I guess the lawyers I spoke to 315 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: would say that's probably a good thing. I think the 316 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: funniest dynamic here, I don't know if it's so funny, haha, 317 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: but groups that were lobbing for Russian interests that got sanctioned. 318 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: So some of the major PR shops in Washington, we're 319 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: lobbying for a Russian bank to evade sanctions or stuff 320 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: like that. Then after the invasion February, all the sanctions 321 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: get thrown on Russia. It's really different, difficult to work 322 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: for Russian entities. And then what happens. A lot of 323 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: these groups are now doing pro bono work for Ukrainian 324 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: entities as a way to kind of shore up their 325 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: public image. Interesting, you saw that after the Kashogi murder 326 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: a number of prominent lobby shops dropped him. They ended 327 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: up many of them going back to working on behalf 328 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: of the Kingdom of Saturabia, but at the time they 329 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: dropped him. So it's interesting that you see the sort 330 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: of response to the political environment and how that comes 331 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: through to the conduct of these lobbying shops. Yeah, I mean, 332 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: I love reading through these pharophilings. You get them a 333 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: little bit of a lag, but you can see every 334 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: journalist they've called these foreign agents. You know, my name 335 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: appears on there because I'm seeking comment from various foreign 336 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: agents at various times any briefing they hold. And I 337 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: just think that there needs to be a lot more 338 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: transparency about this and a lot more clarity because look, 339 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: we are giving this as the United States, a tremendous 340 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: amount of money to Ukraine a tremendous amount of weapons. 341 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: They have corruption problems. We have corruption problems. It would 342 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: be great for there to be a lot more transparency 343 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: about who's lobbying for what and when and how that's 344 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: influencing US policy. Yeah, and talking to people that work 345 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: in that space, attorneys and former DOJ officials. I'm sort 346 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: of sympathetic to the challenges of what because the laws 347 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: you say is so vague implementation. Part of the problem 348 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: is lack of resources, as it always is. But another 349 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: part is, like you said, this was a nineteen thirty 350 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: eight law and something that you know, most of the 351 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: cases brought against people. I think we're during the Cold War. 352 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,239 Speaker 1: You know, we've got a different media landscape since then. 353 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 1: We've got something called the Internet, we have cable TV. 354 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: Things are a little different now. And oh yeah, there's 355 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: this hilarious thing where you're supposed to have a conspicuous 356 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: statement if you're a foreign lobbyist, so you know so 357 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: and so is lobbying on behalf of the presidency of Ukraine. 358 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: It's about a three sentence statement. How are you going 359 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: to add that onto a tweet or a post or 360 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 1: a you know, doesn't really make sense in our you know, 361 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty character world exactly. Okay, well, we're 362 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: going to leave it there. Jonathan, Where can people find 363 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: your work vox dot com. Look out for my name, 364 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: Jonathan Gyer. I'm writing about Biden in the world. All right, 365 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: Thanks very much for joining us for this edition of 366 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:25,959 Speaker 1: Breaking Points Intercept edition. Hey there, my name is James Leae. 367 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to another segment of fifty one forty nine on 368 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: Breaking Points. Today, I want to take a moment to 369 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: reflect about why all of our major institutions are in shambles. 370 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: To help set the stage for today's conversation, let's examine 371 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: a recent Gallup poll measuring American's confidence in major US 372 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: institutions from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty two. Taking 373 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: a look at this graphic, the only two institutions with 374 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: a majority of respondents answering a great deal or quite 375 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: a lot of confidence are small businesses and the military. 376 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: Everything else is underwater. The medical system thirty eight percent confidence, 377 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: Big Tech twenty six percent, the Supreme Court twenty five percent, 378 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: a big drop. There are no surprise based on recent events, 379 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: The presidency twenty three percent. TV News eleven percent Congress 380 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: seven percent. Wow. Now, today, I want to explore one 381 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I think this is the case. 382 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,959 Speaker 1: Institutions have shown signs of decay for decades, and I 383 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: don't mean to keep relitigating the topic of COVID nineteen, 384 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: but I do think the coronavirus pandemic really stressed our 385 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: institutions to the breaking point. The analogy I like to 386 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 1: use is that it's kind of like a piece of 387 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: metal that's been damaged, a support beam or something like that, 388 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: that's been fatiguing for years and years, and finally it 389 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: buckles under a prolonged trauma. I'll give you a specific example. 390 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: Last month, former COVID nineteen coordinator doctor Deborah Burks appeared 391 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: before a select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis to testify 392 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: on former President Donald Trump's response to the pandemic, and 393 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 1: she said something pretty revealing. When the government told us 394 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: that the vaccinated couldn't transmit it, was that a lie 395 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: or was that a guess? I think it was hope 396 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: that the vaccine would work in that way. And that's 397 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: why I think scientists and public health leaders always have 398 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: to be at the table being very clear what we 399 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: know and what we do this is this is important 400 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: for the country to know. So when I asked the 401 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: question when the government told us that the vaccinated couldn't 402 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: get it, and I asked you if it was a 403 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: guest or a lie, you said you don't know. You 404 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: said you think it was hope. So what we do 405 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: know is it wasn't the truth. So they were either guessing, lying, 406 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: or hoping and communicating that information to the citizens of 407 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: this country. We knew early on in January of twenty 408 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: twenty one, in late December of twenty twenty that reinfection 409 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: was occurring after natural infection. Once you see that, and 410 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: I want to make it clear to you all and 411 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: to anyone that it's listening. This is not measles, mumps, 412 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: and rebella. Those vaccines produce long term immunity and can 413 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: create herd immunity. So I just want to interrupt for 414 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: a second, Doctor Burciall, you said something important. You said 415 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: in early twenty twenty one, January twenty twenty one, you 416 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: knew that people who had been vaccinated could be reinfected. 417 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: All I know is there was evidence from the global 418 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: pandemic that natural reinfection was occurring, and since the vaccine 419 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: was based on natural immunity, you cannot make the conclusion 420 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: that the vaccine will do better than natural infection. So 421 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: I'll come back to the hope versus a gas versus 422 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: a lie issue in just a second. But the fact is, 423 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: although they knew that COVID nineteen reinfection was occurring even 424 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: before the mass rollout of the vaccine, that's obviously not 425 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: the information they chose to convey to the American public. 426 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: And here are a couple of clips from President Biden 427 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: and Dot Profauccy to remind you of the messaging they 428 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: chose instead throughout much of twenty twenty one. So this 429 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: is a pandemic of the unvaccinated, the unvaccinated, not the 430 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: vaccinated the unvaccinated. That's the problem. And so everybody talks 431 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: about freedom and not to have a to have a 432 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: shot or have a test, Well, guess what, And so 433 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: how about patriotism, How about making sure that you're vaccinated 434 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: so you do not spread the disease to anybody else. 435 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: The fact is, this is one of the encouraging aspects 436 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: about the efficacy of the vaccine. It'll need to protect 437 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: you completely against infection, if you do get infected, the 438 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: chances are that you're going to be without symptoms, and 439 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: the chances are very likely that you'll not be able 440 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: to transmit it to other people. Pandemic of the unvaccinated. 441 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: If you're vaccinated, you won't transmit the virus. These are 442 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: all things we were told by our government and the 443 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: legacy media throughout all of twenty twenty one. And yes, 444 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 1: I understand that the official guide and establishment sanctioned narrative 445 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: have since changed, maybe because it became impossible to deny 446 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: that vaccines cannot stop the spread of COVID nineteen. But 447 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: what doctor Burks's testimony confirmed was that the official guidance 448 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: was not based on any kind of science. It was 449 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: not necessarily even new information that resulted in a shift 450 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: of the official guidance in narrative. It was actually information 451 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: they knew all along but chose to suppress. For what reason? 452 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: Was it hope, a guess, a deliberate lie. We don't 453 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: really know, And to me, it doesn't necessarily even matter, 454 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: because that's only half of the story here in terms 455 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: of why Americans have no confidence in any of our 456 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: major institutions. Quoting a Reuter's article, from July of last year, 457 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: Facebook is not doing enough to stop the spread of 458 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: false claims about COVID nineteen and vaccines, white House Press 459 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: Secretary Jensaki said at the time, part of a new 460 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: administration pushback on misinformation in the United States. Now, I 461 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: know that big tech platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and Google 462 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: are all independent theoretically in the White House obviously can't 463 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: enforce certain censorship policies onto these companies, but it's hard 464 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: not to argue that the Biden administration is closely tied 465 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: to a lot of these social media companies. Taking a 466 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: look at Facebook's content guidelines, quote under our community standards, 467 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: we remove misinformation during public health emergencies when public health 468 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: authorities conclude that the information is false. Twitter their misinformation 469 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: policy states that the platform will flag quote false or 470 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: misleading information that misrepresent the protective effect of vaccines and 471 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: to make claims contrary to health authorities. YouTube's vaccine misinformation 472 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: policy states that they will remove videos that quote contradicts 473 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: local health authorities or the who's guidance on vaccine safety, 474 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: efficacy and ingredients. I just want to point out the 475 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,199 Speaker 1: common thread, which is when public health authorities conclude the 476 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: information is false or claims contrary to health authorities, videos 477 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: that contradict health authorities guidelines. So basically, none of the 478 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: most popular social media platforms allowed for conversations, discussions, or 479 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: opinions about vaccines that contradicted or deviated from whatever guidance 480 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: that was explicitly endorsed by public health authorities. They were 481 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: essentially given carte blanche over deciding what is and what 482 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: isn't misinformation. If they concluded the information to be false, 483 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: then it must be false. Never mind doctor Faugi's many, 484 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: quote unquote noble lies in the past two years about 485 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: mask wearing, what constitutes herd immunity, and whether or not 486 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: the US funded gain and function research in China. I 487 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: understand that this is a sensitive issue and that there 488 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: were a lot of people making nefarious claims about COVID 489 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: nineteen and the vaccine, and I do think that social 490 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: media certainly makes things worse than those cases by amplifying 491 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: their voices. But I also think that there were a 492 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: lot of other people searching for the truth so they 493 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: can make an educated decision. And in the past, social 494 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: media has democratized the distribution of media or information that 495 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: would have otherwise been unavailable, but this time around we 496 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: weren't allowed to have that discussion on public forms, which 497 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: I think could actually have the unintended consequence of further 498 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: weakening are already ailing institutions. NYU professor Jonathan Height spoke 499 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: to this point in a recent interview with Radio New Zealand, saying, quote, 500 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: when critics go silent, the institution gets stupid. Now he's 501 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: found in an organization called the Heterodox Academy, which aims 502 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: to foster free institutional debate. He continues by saying that 503 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: quote were scientists and social scientists, and we know how 504 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: hard it is to find the truth. When you have 505 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of people with PhDs and expertise in an 506 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 1: area trying to study something, especially complex social policy. Half 507 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: the time we're going to get it wrong. And it's 508 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: really hard to find the truth. And if people are 509 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: afraid to dissent, then you're guaranteed to not find it 510 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: and you're going to be wrong about almost everything. Now, 511 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: this ethos is specifically aimed towards debates within academia, but 512 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: I think it rings true for institutions throughout American life. 513 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: My takeaway is that our institutions are struggling not because 514 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: of nefarious online actors, Russian bots and the like seeking 515 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: to cause chaos, although admittedly those situations definitely do exist, 516 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: but rather, I think our institutions are rotting from the 517 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: inside out because of a pattern of deliberate decisions made 518 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: to affuscate the truth from the public and then suppressing 519 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: discussions for the main for the sake of maintaining control 520 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: over the narrative. The reason why this is so damaging 521 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: is because when the public inevitably finds out the truth, 522 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: this type of repeated behavior condition us to question the 523 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: very institutions the government, the media, the public health system, etc. 524 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: The institutions that are fundamental to maintaining our democracy and 525 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: holding our country together. The problem that I've laid out 526 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: here today with regards to COVID began actually much earlier, 527 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: going all the way back to Vietnam. The Pentagon papers 528 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: probably seem like ancient history at this point, but they 529 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: do reveal deep institutional lives that were designed not only 530 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: to deceive the American public but also control media narratives. Then, 531 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: when you have events like Watergate, Iran Contra, the two 532 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: thousand election, IRAQ WMDs, the two thousand and eight recession, 533 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: along with so many promises being broken along the way. 534 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: I think distrust then becomes the norm. And besides these 535 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: defining institutional scandals of the past, they are also quite 536 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: later reasons why distrust has collapsed. I think on a 537 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: daily level, the corruption, the fraud, coercion, deception, and stagnation 538 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: within US institutions prevents them from upholding their bargain with 539 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: the American people. In societies dictated by social contracts between 540 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: institutions formed to write the rules and run society. Legitimacy 541 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: stems from those institutions delivering when asked to function for 542 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: the American people. When those social contracts break down across politics, economics, culture, media, etc. 543 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: Distrust comes pretty naturally from there. I think the example 544 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: from the COVID nineteen pandemic that we discussed today was 545 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: just a glaring example that removed any and all doubts. 546 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed 547 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: today's discussion about the unfortunate state of our crumbling institutions 548 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: and found it to be helpful. If you want more 549 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: videos like this, please check out my channel fifty one 550 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: fourt nine with James Lee where I released weekly videos 551 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: relating to the intersection of business, politics and society. The 552 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: link will be in the description below, and of course 553 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: subscribe to Breaking Points and thank you so much for 554 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: your time today.