1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. It's it could happen here a podcast 2 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: where I didn't come up with an intro, So you're 3 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: getting this one. I'm your host, Bia Wong. This is 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: this is the podcast where actually this is the part 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: of the podcast where after things have fallen apart, you 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: put them back together again. And yeah, the thing that's 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: being put back together here. You know, I really I 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: really should have planned this intro more, but this is 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: this is what happened. This is what happens when we 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: get in night recordings. But yeah, the thing, the thing 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 1: we're putting together today is a union at a really 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: interesting kind of very very interesting kind of coffee shop. 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: So with with me to talk about this is Alex 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: Rocky and Madeline from Blue Bottle Independent Union. And yeah, 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: thank you all for joining me. 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for having us. 17 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to talk with you all. And so 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: I guess the first thing that I want to start 19 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: with is can you talk a bit about what Blue 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: Bottle is, because this is a really weird story that 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: I think kind of reveals a lot about the way 22 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, the it is sort of lofty terms, 23 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: is like the direction that capital has been moving in 24 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: the past like ten years. Absolutely. 25 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 26 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 4: So Blue Bottle is a specialty coffee chain founded by 27 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 4: James Freeman in Oakland, California, like two thousand and two. 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 4: Like most specialty shops, starts off as like this small 29 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 4: little cart where you know, one guy is doing all 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 4: the parts of production, roasting, serving the coffee and all that. 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: And then. 32 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 4: Throughout you know, the early aughts twenty tens, they do 33 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 4: lots of rounds of venture capital financing with like Fidelity 34 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: and other firms until twenty seventeen, when Nesley purchased a 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 4: sixty eight percent majority ownership in Blue Bottle at I 36 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 4: think a seven hundred million dollar evaluation. And since then, no, no, no, 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 4: the it was a seven hundred million dollar evaluation. They 38 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 4: paid four hundred million dollars too. Yeah, isn't this great? 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 4: And since then they've expanded from you know, the tiny 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 4: little location in California to seventy stores in the US 41 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 4: and then over one hundred globally, including in China, Japan, 42 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 4: Hong Kong, South Korea, and am I forgetting anywhere else. 43 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: I think that's I think that's it. 44 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a fun time to be a 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 4: coffee worker. 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: I guess, Yeah, it's interesting to me the extent to 47 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: which this it has. I mean, okay, so like a 48 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: hundred shops is like a lot of shops, but it's 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: not seven hundred million dollars of shops. Like it really 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: seems like this company has like it really has like 51 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: tech valuation, which is alarming. 52 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mean it's not uncommon for specialty right now, 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 4: which is also concerning. Like, as far as I understand, 54 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 4: Intelligentsia and La Cologne are also owned in part by 55 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 4: venture capital firms, and this is really confusing, especially because 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 4: for anybody that knows anything about like the economics of 57 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 4: coffee shops, the margins are terrible. Yeah, and really, as 58 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 4: far as I can tell, the only value that Blue 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,399 Speaker 4: Bottle offers to Nesley is brand and like the ability 60 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 4: to eventually grow to the point where at some point 61 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 4: in the future they'll be able to make a little 62 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 4: bit of money. 63 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: Off of it all, which is a deeply weird business strategy. Yeah, 64 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: and so I guess I wanted to start here because 65 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: it feels like a very different organizing terrain than a 66 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: lot of like, you know that a lot of the 67 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: shops that we've been that we talked to on this show, 68 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: because it's like the value this company is only kind 69 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: of tangentially, you know, all like honest, a macro level, 70 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: the value of the company is like kind of tenuously 71 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: connected to your labor. But on the other hand, like 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: at the individual shop level, you're still dealing with all 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: of the same sort of like you know, like hyper 74 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: exploitation and trying to like ring every cent out of stuff. 75 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: So so I guess I wanted to start by kind 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: of asking, like how how did that the weirdness of 77 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: what of what Blue Bottle is influenced? Like how this 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: campaign started to. 79 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: Be pretty frank about our campaign, Like there was a 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: crop of organizers before Gonzo myself, who I would say 81 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 2: at this point are kind of the longest running organizers 82 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 2: on this campaign. Look, there was a crop before us, 83 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: so we joined. We did not start the campaign here 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: at Blue Bottle, but I think, I mean it was 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: difficult in the very beginning, Like you know, blue bottle 86 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: it pays now, like I think starting wage for bristas 87 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 2: like eighteen an hour. You know, we just got to 88 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: pave up in April. So it's like I, you know, 89 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: I do make more than minimum wage. It's it can 90 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: be a tough sell for people to be like, oh, 91 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: but you know it's like marginally better, Like, oh, I'm 92 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: working at this like fancy coffee shop, don't they treat 93 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: us a little better? Like? But when you look at 94 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: like also, the coffee industry has a whole on like 95 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: on a global scale, incredibly exploitative industry that like we 96 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: are both we play into as people like in the 97 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: US who make incredibly expensive specialty coffee, but also like 98 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 2: as workers who are exploited ourselves. Like, this is something 99 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: that I think we have to think about often as 100 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: like how I don't know, how can our union affect 101 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: this industry as a whole, How can we affect you know, 102 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: Nestle as this conglomerate as a whole, But also how 103 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: can I afford my rent next month? 104 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 5: Yeah? 105 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: And so you know, having those kinds of discussions with workers, 106 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: like putting our day to day labor into this kind 107 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: of larger context both of the company and of the industry. 108 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I think this campaign, you know, we didn't 109 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: we didn't start it out independent. We had a little 110 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: bit of shopping around almost of different unions. I think 111 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: we were also largely spouted here in Boston specifically, like 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: it is kind of a hotbed for coffee organizing. A 113 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: lot of shops around here organized. There've been some incredibly 114 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: like militant shops out here, Like I think Gonda and 115 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 2: I first got introduced to the Bluebell campaign from the 116 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: Starbucks eight seven four picket line and they were out 117 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 2: there for like two months, and I think that that, 118 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 2: you know, those kinds of things have really influenced campaign 119 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: and really influenced our organizing as we go into this 120 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: like really kind of corporate bougee coffee shops that is 121 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: hard to hard to reconcile with, like, hey, I am 122 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: also an exploited laborer. I you know, I am forced 123 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: to make coffee all day for customers who are frankly 124 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: quite rude, and having to have those conversations with your 125 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 2: coworkers of like, hey, we deserve better. It might be 126 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: marginally better than some other place, we still deserve better 127 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: and we can fight for so much more. So I 128 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 2: feel like I went on for a little bit there, 129 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: but I hope that is. 130 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 4: One thing to kind of add on to that is 131 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 4: when organizing in the stores, part of the fact that 132 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 4: we're owned by NESTLEI makes it actually much easier because 133 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 4: people aren't like easily fooled. We understand that Neslie is 134 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 4: putting a lot of money into this company with the 135 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 4: hope of future returns you know, in the shortter, medium term. 136 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: And also people implicitly understand that the current model that 137 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 4: the cafes operate on is kind of reckless, Like because 138 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: we're owned basically as a venture capital scheme, this means that, 139 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 4: you know, we're constantly trying to cut costs that shouldn't 140 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 4: be cut. Like even today, Madeline and I ran out 141 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 4: of decaf. 142 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: Coffy beans because they. 143 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 4: Hadn't placed in order for them, Oh my god. Yeah. 144 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: And you know, we've run out of you know, milks 145 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 4: fairly frequently. We've run out of things like cups and 146 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 4: lids and very basic things that you need to run 147 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 4: a coffee shop as far as I can tell, only 148 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 4: because they need to keep operating costs comically low so 149 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 4: that way they can appease their nesty overlords. 150 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: Which is pretty funny because the math doesn't make any 151 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: sense on that right, because it's like, okay, you need 152 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: to find a way to make like four hundred million dollars. 153 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: Your solution to this is We're going to delay ordering 154 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 1: more coffee beads? Like, is there anyone who like, No, 155 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: you don't like. This isn't even an accountant situation. This 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: is a like, is there anyone here who understands what 157 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: an order of magnitude is? What are we doing here? 158 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 4: Wait till you hear about the saffron latte. 159 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: Oh god, what a disaster. 160 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so they don't have enough money to pay 161 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 4: us a living wage. But from January until April of 162 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 4: this year, we were serving a saffron alatte with and 163 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 4: I kid you, not real saffron, both in a syrup 164 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 4: and also and a powdered Yeah, no, no kidding. It 165 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 4: tasted like Plato. I kind of like that, but not 166 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 4: everybody does. 167 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: Apparently, you know the first time, This is the first 168 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: time I've ever said this in my entire life. But 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: I sincerely hope that they were buying the fucking cheap 170 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: fake stuff they were real saffron. Oh god, Well, to 171 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: be fair, to be fair, a lot of something people 172 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: think is real saffron probably is fake. So maybe maybe 173 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: the scammers were getting something out of this. But dear God, 174 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't make them look good. 175 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 4: But yeah, no, real, somebody who's good with the economy 176 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 4: helped me out here. You know, three thousand dollars a 177 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 4: week for Saffron and eighteen dollars an hour for Bereiza's. 178 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: God, that's gonna like haunt me in my dreams. So 179 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: what order are gonna add? How much should that lost? 180 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: Eight Jesus Christ yep, oh no, but not enough money 181 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: to pay us a living wage. No, that's I don't 182 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: know that is that is that is jeny wily disgusting. 183 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: Like how you know, when you think about it, we 184 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 3: can like buy a little over two of them every 185 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 3: hour we work, so like that's all we need. 186 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's also got to be like a kind 187 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: of radicalizing moment of oh my god, yeah, and our 188 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: time is worth so little to these people. 189 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: This is actually one of the biggest conversations I would 190 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: have with my cochers that I had to stop having 191 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: so it'd make them incredibly upset. Was I would break 192 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 2: down the mouth of them. I'd be like, you can 193 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: make a latte in about a minute, two minutes, Like, 194 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 2: and those lattes are seven dollars you make seventeen an 195 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: hour make three lattes and that's more than your hourly wage, 196 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: and you're making what one hundred of those an hour 197 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: in a rush. Like people would get really upset when 198 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 2: you're confronted with like the oh wow, the money coming 199 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: in and then the money that I'm receiving. It'll drive 200 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: you crazy. 201 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, I don't know. That's one of 202 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: these things where I think in a lot of industries 203 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of that kind of value thing is abstracted 204 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 1: because like I don't know, like you're like I just 205 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: talked about it like an accountant earlier, right, Like you're 206 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: an accountant. You have no idea how much of well, 207 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: I guess maybe an accountant would know exactly about a value, Okay, 208 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. You work in like you work in 209 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: a factory that produces an auto part, right, like one 210 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: thing that goes into an assembly of an auto parts, 211 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: Like you have no like there's no good way for 212 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: you to like actually understand the sort of value things. 213 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: You can get kind of close, but I think it's 214 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: less visceral than just yeah, this is an item of 215 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: food that I'm watching all of these people like consume 216 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: that I'm making, and it's like, yeah, sure, obviously there's 217 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: like you know, like back down the value chained is 218 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: also probably like Nessley doing like slave labor, like child 219 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: slave labor to get chocolate or something. Right, But I 220 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: don't know, there's this there's something really kind of just 221 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: viscerally horrifying about like I've produced eight hundred dollars of 222 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: coffee and they're paying me eighteen dollars. Yeah, so speaking 223 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: of eight hundred dollars of coffee this show. Actually, I 224 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: don't think we've ever gotten the coffee ad, which is 225 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,599 Speaker 1: sort of remarkable. You'd think at some point. 226 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't dream really funny, you know, 227 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 4: if if on the ad that we're about to go 228 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 4: to it's you know, like the Black Rifle Coffee Company 229 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 4: or some shit. 230 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: Oh god, wait no, I think I think one of 231 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 1: the I think one of the insane. It might have 232 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: been the other one. So there's like Black Rifle Coffee, 233 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: which is the right wing coffee thing. But then they 234 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: they condemned Kyle Rittenhouse murdering all those people, and so 235 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: then there became a second, even more anti wokee coffee 236 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: shop that was even shittier. I think those people might 237 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: legitimately have tried to sell it add to our show. 238 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: At one point we were like, no, what the fuck's 239 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: there's We had so many insane ads we had the 240 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: famously the Washington Highway Patrol put one on here. So 241 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: all right, let's let's hope you have a reasonable ad 242 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: instead of that, and we are back. Luckily this is 243 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: podcasting are not regulated like radio, so I could just 244 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: fucking say, shit, it's great. We love we love, we 245 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: love to be we love to be in podcasting. So yeah, 246 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: this this brings us in no particular bye by by 247 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: no particularly rhymer reason. This brings us to a neoxt 248 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to sort of talk about, which is 249 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: about the decision to go independent and about independent unions 250 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: versus sort of the traditional business unions that have been 251 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: trying to run a lot of these campaigns. So yeah, 252 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 1: I guess wherever you want to start in that whole 253 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: sort of thickets of issues. 254 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, the decision to go independent was maybe eight months 255 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 2: into our campaign. We did pivot to go independent. We were, 256 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: you know, kind of we had not affiliated with anyone. 257 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: We some weird stuff it had happened with some previous 258 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: business unions and so we were kind of a nice 259 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: shopping around phase, and I like good friend of the 260 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 2: union and someone who has helped us incredibly throughout the campaign, 261 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: said hey, can I pitch you guys on going independent? 262 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: Like and at that time, I mean I can't speak 263 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: for the other folks, Like I did not know anything 264 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: about independent unions. This campaign has also been an incredible 265 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: like learning process for me. And so you know, we 266 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: talked about a little bit of like, hey, unions, everything 267 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: that a union does, workers can do and really like 268 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: trying to like instill this like we can do it ourselves. 269 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: I think that like for me, like the dream of 270 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: independent unionism is like the having autonomy and control of 271 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: our lives both in the workplace and in our unions 272 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: at like ads workers and so you know this idea 273 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: of like oh yeah, this the union just takes care 274 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: of it. Oh, you pay dues and this stafford does 275 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: all these things for you. But when you know, when 276 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: we filed our petition, you know I filled that out, 277 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: it's not that hard. 278 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: You know. 279 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 2: There are so many things where it's like oh, yeah, 280 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: the union will take care of it, or oh this 281 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: is what dues pay for, Like oh, we can have 282 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: a lawyer look at it. At no part of this 283 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: process was there really anything that workers could not have done. 284 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: Did we seek legal advice? Absolutely? Did we have people 285 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: help us out who maybe knew more than I did. Yes, 286 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: But that isn't to say that we were not learning 287 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: the entire time. So to me, that's like the big 288 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: ethos of independent unionism of like learning it, doing it, 289 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: teaching others. I think it has been an incredible opportunity. 290 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: I think also like we really are committed to like 291 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: rank and file democracy and so having workers have they 292 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: say in all major decisions, especially like now that we 293 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: have had our election, we're moving into bargaining hopefully soon, 294 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: like being able to have workers submit proposals, have workers 295 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: look and do open bargaining, have them look at every 296 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 2: at the contract at every step of the way, and 297 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: things like this, having people participate in their unions. I mean, 298 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: I think that we are in a time of like 299 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: the revitalization of the labor movement, and I don't want 300 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 2: workers to get left behind in that. Like I think 301 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 2: that we, you know, like we are the labor and 302 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: so being able to control our unions and lead them 303 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: in the ways that we want to as democratically as 304 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: we can. To me, it's been what it's all about. 305 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: Did that mean that it was an easy campaign. No, 306 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: it was a lot of work. It was a lot 307 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: of work that maybe a paid staff or would have done, 308 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: but we did it ourselves and it took longer, and 309 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: it took a lot of education as well of explaining 310 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: to my coworkers of like, hey, we want to form 311 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: a union and it's not just this thing that kind 312 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: of happens to you, Like, actually, you have to make 313 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: it happen now if you want to do it. So 314 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: I think that for us the choice to go independent 315 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 2: independent has like only reaped benefits so far, it's been 316 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: this wonderful thing. I think that we are all much 317 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 2: better for it and much closer like as co workers. 318 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 2: I think that people are more excited about their union. 319 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: But it certainly, you know, it took a lot of work, 320 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: It took a lot of time, It took a lot 321 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: of trust from our coworkers as well. 322 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean one of the most formative experiences that 323 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 4: has stuck with me, and I think I might have 324 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 4: mentioned this in the interview before the interview was when 325 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 4: we were shopping around with business unions Rocky and I 326 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 4: had sat down with somebody from a fairly large one, 327 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 4: and we're trying to ask all of these questions about, 328 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 4: you know, would we be able to have rank and 329 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 4: file control of our own campaign, would we be able 330 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 4: to you know, legitimately examine unconventional tactics for launching or 331 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 4: sustain our campaign, you know, what is the actual process 332 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 4: for requesting finances from the larger affiliate if we needed it, 333 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 4: And more or less, what we were told by the 334 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 4: staffer was that none of this would be in the 335 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 4: hands of rank and file, and it would either be 336 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 4: determined by what this particular staffer thought was best or 337 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 4: you know, they would have to get approval from you know, 338 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 4: whoever was above them, which, despite the fact that this 339 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 4: person was within the reform caucus of their union, did 340 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 4: not strike them as being anti democratic at all. 341 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 5: Yeah. 342 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, And at that point, I mean, you know, we'd 343 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 4: been talking to our co workers for months at that point, 344 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 4: you know, hanging out with them, becoming building community, and 345 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 4: it didn't seem like there was really anything that you know, 346 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 4: a larger business union would have had to offer to 347 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 4: begin with. In fact, in my own experience, the idea 348 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 4: of affiliation has more or less come across as an 349 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 4: implicit threat of how else you're going to take on 350 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 4: Nesley without all of the money and resources that we 351 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 4: have but won't let you use anyways. 352 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like not a thing. I don't know, 353 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: if you've gotten to the point where your union is 354 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: threatening you, and this is something that like happens more 355 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: than you'd think, Like, you know, but listeners of this 356 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: show may or may not have listened to some previous 357 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: episodes talking to some of the reformed nurses slates that 358 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: we've had on the show where that's happened. But if 359 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: your union is threatening to you, something has gone very 360 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: badly wrong, and you're probably you're in a position where 361 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: you're probably going to be having to fight yourself out 362 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 1: of a deep hole. And one way you can avoid 363 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: getting in there in the first place is by not 364 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: digging the hole and building something yourself. Yeah, exactly. 365 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 4: And I mean, you know, one of the things that 366 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 4: we heard a lot about at Labor Notes two weeks 367 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 4: ago at this point was people within larger unions talking 368 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 4: about how to fight off staffers or bureaucrats. And I'm 369 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 4: personally very glad that we are not in that fight 370 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 4: ourselves because we have Nestlie to take care of. 371 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: Now. 372 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 373 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, the the sort of two way fight between you 374 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: your boss and then also your union staffers is not 375 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: a thing that usually goes well for you. It's a 376 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: bad situation to be it. I would recommend of waiting it. 377 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 378 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess the next thing that I'm sort 379 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: of interested in is, you know, so you talked a 380 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: bit about how sort of being an independent union like 381 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: made the union closer. How else did that influence how 382 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: the campaign went? And how is like how how has 383 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: it been going in the past, Like, I know, I 384 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: know you won your election remembering there, right, Yeah, it 385 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: was an election with Sorry it has been. This has 386 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 1: been the most chaotic two weeks I've had in several years. 387 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 4: So, I mean, it's just like Lennin said, there are 388 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 4: years where you fuck around and weeks where you find out. 389 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 4: All Right, I'm gonna get so much shit for that 390 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 4: comment now. Anyways, cool Zobia is not endorsed. Letting yes, 391 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 4: two good lines. 392 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: I promise I only said it for the joke. Yeah. 393 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 4: Our campaign started April third. There are six stores in 394 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 4: the Greater Boston area with roughly sixty seven sixty five 395 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 4: workers across all of them. On April third, fifty workers 396 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 4: from five of those stores handed cards like union authorization 397 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 4: cards to management, announcing our campaign, our union, and asking 398 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 4: for voluntary recognition by noon on April eighth. Management accepted 399 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 4: the cards, but then did not recognize the union voluntarily 400 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 4: by newon April eight, and instead they put up a 401 00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 4: flyer in the back of the house of all the 402 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 4: cafes saying that they would respect the outcome of an election, 403 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 4: at which point, no, yeah, they didn't even publicly acknowledge us. 404 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 4: So at that point, across five of the six stores, 405 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 4: we had to walk out on the eighth, and then 406 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 4: that same day went downtown to file for an election 407 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 4: with the NLRB, which despite the fact that we called 408 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 4: them a week in advance to be like, is it 409 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 4: okay if a lot of people show up kind of 410 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 4: spontaneously to file for an election, and despite the fact 411 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 4: that the person in the office said, yeah, it's fine, 412 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 4: so long as like less than one hundred and you 413 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 4: don't have like a sound stage or anything you got 414 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: to set up and if you do get a permit. 415 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 4: Once we walked up to the office at least four 416 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 4: DHS cop cars like s in front of us, and 417 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 4: they would only let Rocky go into the office to 418 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 4: file for our election while being escorted by a DFS 419 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 4: agent the entire time. 420 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you get just these This is something 421 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: that's been happening, so like, I have no idea when 422 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: this episode is going to go. This is being recorded 423 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: the middle of the protest. Like literally today, seventy year 424 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: old professors are getting dragged out of like protests by cops, 425 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: And like, this is one of these moments where when 426 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: when when things actually happen, these really visceral demonstrations of 427 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: like what the society you actually live in is. And 428 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: I don't think there's like a more perfect demonstration of 429 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Board sometimes will help you, but 430 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: also also is very clearly a bureaucratic mechanism of a 431 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: police state. Then the cops show up and only one 432 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: of you could go talk to the NLRP person escorted 433 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: by police. That is wild. 434 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 435 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 4: It was also the same day as the solar eclipse. 436 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 4: Oh my god, it was a very magic day. Yeah, 437 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 4: nothing was more enchanting than the fact that we got 438 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 4: to watch the eclipse. When we otherwise would have had 439 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 4: to have been at work that rules. 440 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I get I guess. I guess that's another 441 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: way to get to get turned out for a walkout. 442 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: It's like, hey, look we're gonna go a walk and 443 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: also you could go see the eclipse instead of serving 444 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 1: rich people coffee. 445 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 4: And it worked. 446 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: Hell yeah. 447 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. But all that is to say is I think 448 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 2: being independent, let's us do fun and creative things. 449 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 450 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you for remembering what the actual question was. 451 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: Like, I think we're allowed to be a little silly 452 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 2: with it, and we're allowed to have fun, and we're 453 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 2: allowed to come up with ideas that maybe other like 454 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 2: haters would shoot down. But when me and my coch 455 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: are saying, yeah, that would be cool and fun, we 456 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: just get to do it and there's like joy and 457 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 2: creativity and all of it. 458 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 5: Yeah. 459 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess you know, do you have anything 460 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: else that you want to make sure we get you 461 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: before we sort of wrap things up. Yeah. 462 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 2: So. 463 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 4: I mean, as much as we've talked about a lot 464 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 4: of the benefits of independent unionism, one of the downsides 465 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 4: is that we have no money, and if people would 466 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,160 Speaker 4: be so gracious as to give us some of their money. 467 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 4: You can go to link t r dot ee slash 468 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 4: Blue Bottle Union, so link Tree slash Blue Bottle Union, 469 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 4: where there'll be a link to our GoFundMe. I'll also 470 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 4: say that since we don't have staffers, our overhead is 471 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 4: incredibly low and this will once again allows us to 472 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 4: you know, actually do cool and fun things like we 473 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 4: were able to pay everybody that did the walkout because 474 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 4: we were able to raise enough money in the in 475 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 4: between from April third to eighth, which was incredible. 476 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: I have like some personal stuff when it comes to 477 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: like filing independent and talking with a lot of people 478 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: that I know, I feel like it actually helped the 479 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 3: fact that we were independent because you know, there was 480 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 3: none of that background oh unions. You know that there's 481 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 3: a big influence when it comes to like unions and 482 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 3: like big scary unions taking all your money through union 483 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 3: dues and YadA YadA. But you know, with filing independent, 484 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 3: you know we can just be like, actually we don't 485 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 3: have to worry about anything like that. We set union 486 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 3: dues democratically and like, and so it's just been like 487 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,959 Speaker 3: really helpful for when we were getting organized and everything. 488 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 3: Just relaying that idea to coworkers to family, friends and 489 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 3: everyone just kind of like helps them be like, oh 490 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 3: that makes sense. 491 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 492 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 4: I mean the old like you know, anti union talking 493 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 4: point of like you know, there being an outside organization, Yeah, 494 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 4: really falls flat with an independent union because it literally 495 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 4: is just you and all of your friends. And then 496 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 4: on top of that, it also means that management hasn't 497 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 4: known how to respond to us, because in the week 498 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 4: leading up to our election, which we won thirty eight 499 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 4: to four this past Friday, May third, Yeah, they put 500 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 4: out like three or four different flyers, one talking about 501 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 4: business unions that have signed management's rights clauses in the 502 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 4: most fucking like I'm not owned, I'm not owned. I'm 503 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 4: still going to get my mensments rights claus. 504 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: Like ever. 505 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 4: And then also another flyer about union dues and examples 506 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 4: of business unions that you know, to anybody that doesn't 507 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 4: know anything about unism, would seem high. 508 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 509 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 4: They also, in a letter that they sent out to 510 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 4: all of us the night before our election talked complained 511 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 4: about us seeking external assistance, and all of this just 512 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 4: completely falls flat because you know, it's literally we've done 513 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: those mostly by like having pot luckx together to talk 514 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 4: about all of our issues at work and or like 515 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 4: movie nights or some shit, and it's much tougher to 516 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 4: convince people to vote against the person that they're on 517 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 4: the floor with eight hours a day. 518 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, the overall like way that these papers were received 519 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: is has been like met with kind of like a 520 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 3: lot of skull emojis in group chats and like just 521 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: kind of like generally making fun of the whole thing. 522 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: And I think that like that's been really good for 523 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 3: morale as well, because like, you know, it's just not 524 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 3: getting to us. It's goofy and like just doesn't work. 525 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: So and also the way that they've been handing these 526 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 3: flyers out, I don't know about like other cafes, but 527 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 3: at mine specifically, it's been kind of awkward, like haha, 528 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: cover my eyes, here's this flyer that I have to 529 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: hand you kind of thing, and it's just like okay, yeah. 530 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really seems like it is something, you know, 531 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: okay different. I'm not I'm not going to do my 532 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: tangent about the infiltration of political parties here. 533 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, really, political cults within the Greater 534 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 4: Boston area continuously subvert and undermine Union elections are not 535 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 4: just elections, but campaigns as well. I won't name examples 536 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 4: because these same cults are also incredibly vindictive and they 537 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 4: will try to dox me. But this is also the 538 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 4: implicit threat that you know, like if you know, they 539 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 4: can't turn a union into their own stupid vanguard, then 540 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 4: they will try and push through something that rank and 541 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 4: file don't want and try and undermine or tank the campaign. 542 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's something I think like to take 543 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: to Okay, so to take a little step back. So, yeah, 544 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: one of the things that's very common in union in 545 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: sort of like local union spaces is there will be 546 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: like there'll be like a local of a union or 547 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: like maybe sometimes its own union that's just run by 548 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: a cult, and these sort of like these sort of 549 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: like I don't know, sometimes you're Stalins and under Trotskyites sometimes, 550 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: like it depends, the ideology changes to some extent. But 551 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: because because of like the you know, the because because 552 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: you can run like a staff union with like five people, right, 553 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: this is this is a pretty good way for them 554 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: to sort of like like you know, gain something that 555 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: looks like political power, and like it's a way for 556 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: them to bring other people who don't know what's going 557 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: on into like the influencers of their organization, and they 558 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: this can get really bad and really dangerous, at least 559 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 1: to the stuff you're talking about, where yeah, they start 560 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: trying to sabotage campaigns because they're not you know, like 561 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: these groups aren't actually in this for you know, like 562 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: they're not they're not in this for class struggles by 563 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: whatever they you know, will say about it. They're they're 564 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: in this specifically to expand the influence of their own party. 565 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: And you know, when you try to like actually do 566 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: your own thing, this stuff happens. 567 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. It's uh, also really telling that 568 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 4: despite the fact that you know, some of these groups 569 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 4: are like known for undermining campaigns in this way or 570 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 4: for harassing staffers that you know, don't play ball with 571 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 4: them or whatever, that they continue to do the entriest thing. 572 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 5: Yeah. 573 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't have any good ideas for how to 574 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 4: subvert that, but I'm sure dear listeners will send me 575 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 4: many of them. 576 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think also at some point we're going to 577 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: do the micro We're gonna do the micro sect episode. 578 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: In Microsect episode to the to like introduce people to 579 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: the basics of like, hey, you are like the range 580 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: of tiny political parties in the US that are actually 581 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: cults that show up at protests all the time. So yeah, 582 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: maybe maybe maybe that will help too, because I think 583 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: a lot of it is people just you know, they're 584 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: you run into like the World Workers Party, and like, 585 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: you don't know that this party is a weird cult, right, 586 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: They're just sort of talking about workers stuff. Yeah, so 587 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: I think education will help with it too, but the 588 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: bureaucratic maneuvering stuff is like the only thing they're good 589 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: at because they're all these like weird micro party formations. 590 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 4: So I don't know, yeah, one hundred percent. I only 591 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 4: way that I think might help is you know, horizontalizing 592 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 4: the structure somewhat, but then you still run into like 593 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,239 Speaker 4: the issue of like social capital within that structure. So 594 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 4: if you know, somebody is savvy enough, they can still 595 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 4: indoctrinate people into a silly cult. 596 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, that's that's just something 597 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: that you're gonna have to I mean, and we should 598 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: also mention too, like these thing these groups like they 599 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: work with larger unions too sometimes, Like so one of 600 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: the most famous examples of this is Pride at Work 601 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: which is a really big afl CIO thing, but it's 602 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: also jointly run with the Party of Socialism Liberation, which 603 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: is another one of these cults because of a bunch 604 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: of like long running actions, even though like a bunch 605 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: of their really senior staffers unbelief to be transphobic, and 606 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's a whole thing there. But yeah, 607 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: this is something that is not just a problem with 608 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: independent unions and not just a problem with sort of 609 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: like random locals. It can and does get into actual 610 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: like national unions. On the other hand, one way to 611 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: avoid this is to in fact organize your own union 612 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: and don't let them be. 613 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 4: So this is actually something that we've thought consciously about 614 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 4: with our own union is that on the we sent 615 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 4: out a community support forum for people that wanted to 616 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 4: show up the data, we announced our campaign, and on 617 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 4: the form specifically, we made people tick a box saying 618 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 4: that they wouldn't endorse or try to fly, or for 619 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 4: or otherwise promote any group that they might have affiliation with, 620 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 4: including political parties or you know, otherwise organizations that are 621 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 4: not you know, our specific union. And so far that's worked. 622 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: Hell yeah. 623 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 2: I would also say, like in our constitution by laws. 624 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 2: I don't know if that if it's in the current ones. 625 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: We're revising them soon anyways. But the conversation that we've 626 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 2: had before also like people in like eyboard positions, what, yeah, 627 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: what kind of affiliations can they have to outside political parties? 628 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 2: Like where where are we drawing the line on that? 629 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 2: Like that's something that I think we also considered very 630 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: early on as well for people in the union. 631 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think there's another aspect there too, which 632 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: is like another thing that can happen to your union 633 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: is that it gets eaten by the Democratic Party machine. 634 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: And that's happened to I mean, like this is this 635 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: is a lot of how like these giant business unions 636 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: became business unions, is they became basically these like lobbying 637 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: firms on behalf of like whatever random like local democratic 638 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: machine is running, Like this happens to Chicago, Like all 639 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: the time you get these like just like the most 640 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: important machine like candidates you've ever seen come out of 641 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party who are like guys who are like 642 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: so comically corrupt that like you know, you're they're like 643 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,759 Speaker 1: walking down the street and like like bundles of cash 644 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: are falling out of the suit cases and they're getting 645 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: endorsed by like the team stars, and it's like, well, 646 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, okay, I wonder what happened there legally legally 647 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: legally conjecture, but you. 648 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 4: Know, who's to say, really, yeah, you know, it just 649 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 4: so happens that they have these large briefcases full of cash. 650 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 4: Nobody can really say where the cash materialized. 651 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but amazingly, I was actually going to go on 652 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 1: a different rancho political parties, So I'm going to circle 653 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: back to there to close this out. Which is one 654 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: of the nice things about independent unions is that, you know, 655 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: it's something that all three of you were sort of 656 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: getting at, which is that, like employers have been fighting 657 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: these sort of large corporate unions business unions for like 658 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: one hundred years now, right. They know how they operate, 659 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: they know how their campaigns work, they know what levers 660 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: to push against them. On the other hand, they have 661 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: not been fighting you, specifically, random listener of this show, 662 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: and you, specifically, random listener of this show, and your 663 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: coworkers can do things to surprise them and can do 664 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: things in ways that they don't understand. And you know, 665 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: you have we have a moment, like right now, Like 666 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: in like five years, they'll probably have worked out a 667 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff aboutw to break independent unions. But right now, 668 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: like literally right now, we have a we have a 669 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: master strategic advantage because their playbook wasn't written to deal 670 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: with people who are running these sort of like very 671 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,919 Speaker 1: low to the ground, very agile, very nimble, very sort 672 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: of like you know, these spontaneous and creative campaigns, and 673 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: you can use that to beat the crap out of 674 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: your boss and get more money from them. So this 675 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: is the BA endorsement of doing doing fun things with 676 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: unions that your bosses don't expect. Hell yeah, yeah, So 677 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: I think unless there's anything else where where else can 678 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: people find you, we'll have a link to your link 679 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: tree in the description. Is there anywhere else like social 680 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: media stuff where people can find the union? 681 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Our social media for Twitter and Instagram is bb 682 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: I Union and then on TikTok, I believe it is 683 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 2: BBIU sixteen. Cool. 684 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: We will have that in the description too. Yeah, and 685 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: thank you all so much for coming on. And yeah, 686 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: make make Nestlie bleed for us. 687 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having us. We can't say 688 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 4: how much we appreciate it. 689 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thank you of course, and yeah, this has 690 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: been naked happened here. You can find us in the 691 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: usual places, and yeah, you too can also go start 692 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: your own union and make your bosses suffer from It 693 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 694 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 695 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the 696 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 697 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 698 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,760 Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. 699 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening.