Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask, so one of the people on
Speaker 2: the court is Emmett. Emmett had helped build some other shelters.
Speaker 2: You may not know are most There are three camps,
Speaker 2: maybe David schattis with you, similar to the one that
Speaker 2: you were in. There were three in different locations. Some
Speaker 2: of them are even colder than the one that you
Speaker 2: stayed in. And volunteers including myself included. Emmett had built shelters. Emmet,
Speaker 2: perhaps you could describe like how you sort of decided
Speaker 2: to do that and came up with the shelter design
Speaker 2: that you came up with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, And I just just want to say I'm
Speaker 3: processing also amost is also hearing your story and appreciating,
Speaker 3: like for all of us coming to build shelters, it's
Speaker 3: it's realizing there's all these stories that weird are not knowing,
Speaker 3: and you know, all of us are these lives that
Speaker 3: are so independent individual and showing up and meeting folks
Speaker 3: who have been through whatever they have been and uh, it.
Speaker 4: Like does it does stuff to us? All? You know?
Speaker 4: And I think I'm hearing you right now.
Speaker 3: I'm just really processing kind of what you're saying, and
Speaker 3: I hope many people here how you're framing all this.
Speaker 3: Guys really appreciate how you're framing the story and how
Speaker 3: you're sharing both your perspective but also what it means
Speaker 3: to just be confused, to think for some for for me,
Speaker 3: like I've I felt so even after many years of
Speaker 3: working in this space, just so confused by how or
Speaker 3: by how CVP is treating people in.
Speaker 4: The in the oas at least in this desert right now.
Speaker 3: But uh, basically it's winter time now in in California,
Speaker 3: and for the last several months people have been kept
Speaker 3: overnight in the desert on in the borderlands, which has
Speaker 3: been brutal, and it has been terrible, and and and
Speaker 3: any humane.
Speaker 4: Have for cped to keep people of the desert.
Speaker 3: But as it became winter, it became deadly and the
Speaker 3: risk of extreme hypothermia events for for hundreds of people
Speaker 3: became so severe that a lot of.
Speaker 4: A lot of our you know, day in day out, UH.
Speaker 3: Work to making sure people will had food and if
Speaker 3: there were babies that they were taking care of as needed,
Speaker 3: or if if folks had specific health issues that we
Speaker 3: could show it for them. But but the thought of
Speaker 3: just doing that and hope, you know, bringing as many
Speaker 3: blankets as we could. Uh, We're bringing up blankets and
Speaker 3: tents and tarps things keep people off the ground, you know,
Speaker 3: basically looking in our basements and asking all of our
Speaker 3: friends like, hey, we're looking behind every gas station for
Speaker 3: for for for boxes of cardboard or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: But that just didn't seem enough. It didn't. It seemed
Speaker 3: like we were actually doing a harm to be to
Speaker 3: be the ones who had seen this and something we
Speaker 3: deal with israelizing. There's so many folks who just don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on. So for us to be a
Speaker 3: community seeing this and not not taking to the next
Speaker 3: the next level and still I feel this way.
Speaker 4: But it felt like we were not doing or we
Speaker 4: were doing a harm by not by.
Speaker 3: Not kind of addressing the winter as it was happening.
Speaker 3: So the idea of building shelters was was to try
Speaker 3: to basically do do something more than just bringing out
Speaker 3: supplies and letting people you know, vent for themselves, but
Speaker 3: creating something that might actually create more of a long
Speaker 3: term safety. And then again, I mean this is this
Speaker 3: is these are detention sites. We are we are working
Speaker 3: as volunteers inside of a basically informal detention site that
Speaker 3: CBP is operating. So it's a very confusing for us
Speaker 3: to know, you know, we're here trying to be with
Speaker 3: people directly, trying to see what people are wanting and
Speaker 3: needing and what is their their needs, but we're also
Speaker 3: kind of navigating around this very erratic system that is
Speaker 3: sometimes denying us entry to these sites, sometimes trying to
Speaker 3: have us do things for them, and other times kind
Speaker 3: of allowing us to be there and you know, you know,
Speaker 3: bringing food because it serves them, serves VP for us
Speaker 3: to keep people alive. But that's a really confusing process.
Speaker 3: So anyways, there was a lot of talk going on
Speaker 3: about making shelters, and people have been assembling palts, and
Speaker 3: one day I was just talking with some of the
Speaker 3: other organizers and they're thinking, well, let's do this.
Speaker 4: I'll come back tomorrow and we will start.
Speaker 3: And so with with some volunteers from the Dollar Lunch
Speaker 3: Club from U SEE San Diego, we set out and
Speaker 3: to the campsite we call Tower one seven seven and
Speaker 3: started building this and immediately kind of as you're saying,
Speaker 3: also Amost, we had about a team of ten people
Speaker 3: from Columbia and Kyrghyzstan helping us build this this shelter
Speaker 3: from from palettes, cardboard, plastic, sheeting, tarts and James and
Speaker 3: myself and some other folks had been talking the night
Speaker 3: before what are the different shelters and using all of
Speaker 3: our outdoor experience, worlderness experience and kind of putting it
Speaker 3: all together and having kind of a roundtable discussion like well,
Speaker 3: I've seen this work before, I've I've done this before.
Speaker 3: I mean, this might work, it might be, this might
Speaker 3: be a nice way of using these palettes, trying to
Speaker 3: find something that I'll be stable to, uh, you know
Speaker 3: withstand wind conditions.
Speaker 4: It being kind of you know, resource smart, making.
Speaker 3: Sure we're not over using whatever would we have, and
Speaker 3: some sort of super intricate design, and also something that
Speaker 3: we could we could assemble quite quickly and would be versatile,
Speaker 3: so some thing we could do in different different settings,
Speaker 3: and also building something and building a design that wouldn't
Speaker 3: wouldn't be super hard for people to use. So yeah,
Speaker 3: so it just felt like we were kind of just
Speaker 3: like kind of putting putting herds together, and that's what
Speaker 3: we came up with was basically this super shelter that
Speaker 3: was has basically a backbone of six palettes and maybe
Speaker 3: I don't know, James, it's possible to like some some
Speaker 3: photos or whatnot, but putting together basically great, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: some sort of ur like structure that can be kind
Speaker 3: of designed or can be changed as it wouldn't be
Speaker 3: and especially something that anybody who's using it gets to
Speaker 3: actually have mimic their own their own home, their own setup.
Speaker 3: So it's not something that we're kind of dictating how
Speaker 3: it needs to be used. But yeah, we've got had
Speaker 3: a really positive experience and a lot of expertise from
Speaker 3: folks from from Kyrgyzstan to kind of lead the way.
Speaker 3: So we brought tools and other folks who were you
Speaker 3: going to use it basically created them Google shelter.
Speaker 4: Themselves.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was that was that was our first
Speaker 3: experience and yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Most his point was really a good one and it's
Speaker 2: one i'd consider too, like it it's quite Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't want to compare the difficulties we encounter as volunteers
Speaker 2: to the difficulties almost has just encountered, has just kind
Speaker 2: of shared with us in his journey, because they're not
Speaker 2: the same, but like it can be quite different. I
Speaker 2: speak quite a few languages, but still with alge groups
Speaker 2: of people who you can't speak to, and do you
Speaker 2: want to connect? You want to be like, what's happening
Speaker 2: to you is it's it's disgusting and disgraceful, and it's
Speaker 2: not me. I'm I don't want it to happen, and
Speaker 2: it shouldn't be. And I want to be in community
Speaker 2: with you as much as I can. And so when
Speaker 2: we don't have that language, the way that we can connect,
Speaker 2: one of the ways that we can connect is to
Speaker 2: grab a hammer or it screwdriver or something and start
Speaker 2: building something.
Speaker 5: I love it. I love it.
Speaker 6: You're so right. You're so right, James, you are so uppointed. No,
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Just seeing that that real Bi drill was like heaven
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I swear not to give you know,
Speaker 1: any brands or whatever. I'm just saying, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not it's not my favorite brand for sure, But but
Speaker 1: but you really really, I mean truly like you guys say,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a universal sort of language.
Speaker 5: Like as men and.
Speaker 1: As women and as people, we want to build, we
Speaker 1: want to protect, we want we want to I mean
Speaker 1: I'm taking this journey to come to my kids and
Speaker 1: show them support and safety and protect and it's happening,
Speaker 1: you know right now I'm talking. I was talking to
Speaker 1: them earlier, and you know, they're excited to see their
Speaker 1: dad soon.
Speaker 5: And you know, it's just that that feeling of warmth.
Speaker 5: And I mean, this is what we do, what we do.
Speaker 1: And then if you want to narrow it down and
Speaker 1: break it down to the basics, it's just what it is.
Speaker 5: It's the human level, it's the human condition.
Speaker 1: I mean really, so these guys are going to go
Speaker 1: through this pain for what I mean, clearly they're going
Speaker 1: through you know, worse, worser things.
Speaker 5: And then that's the whole point. That's what they're trying
Speaker 5: to do.
Speaker 1: So and then, uh, before I forget and then I
Speaker 1: don't hope, I hope my phone doesn't, you know, die
Speaker 1: on me. Let me just give you the detention. If
Speaker 1: you guys have a minute, let me give you yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so before I you know, so basically on I think
Speaker 1: it was Monday. We we we uh get rounded up
Speaker 1: to what is can easily be compared to the cattle
Speaker 1: I wrench cattle kind of process where you know, here
Speaker 1: take off your your your belt and everything that's familiar,
Speaker 1: but you know there's a little extra. The bus driver
Speaker 1: is cussing at you like it's nobody's business and and
Speaker 1: and you know, gratuitous humiliation.
Speaker 5: And you know, maybe you have one of them.
Speaker 1: Is nice, but the rest are just you know, absolutely
Speaker 1: want to just tear you down as much as they can.
Speaker 1: And anyhow, so we're lined up, we're onto this bus
Speaker 1: that's behind the camp closer.
Speaker 5: To Highway eighty I believe Highway eighty, yes, yeah, and
Speaker 5: uh uh.
Speaker 1: And basically we're lined up, we're tagged, we're uh, basically
Speaker 1: stripped of everything that could be quote unquote dangerous. We're
Speaker 1: left with only one shirt in the middle of that
Speaker 1: cold morning and uh doesn't matter. A man, doesn't matter, man, women,
Speaker 1: everybody is treated as saying I appreciate their their quality
Speaker 1: on that issue.
Speaker 5: Uh So, and then we are on a bus journey.
Speaker 1: That's about an hour and a half, maybe two hours
Speaker 1: any more to the uh send.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to remember this very well because it's just,
Speaker 5: you know, it's important. I guess San Diego.
Speaker 1: Uh the San Diego Sorting Facility, San Diego District.
Speaker 5: Sorting Facility, a K A M c U. That's what
Speaker 5: we call it. And basically, uh, you know.
Speaker 1: Your your stuff is sorted and anything that needs to
Speaker 1: be thrown with a thrown away. And you're given you
Speaker 1: become a Let me be clear, you become a subject.
Speaker 1: You're a subject. Now, you're not an alien. You're a subject. James,
Speaker 1: make sure you understand this. You're a subject, sir. Let's
Speaker 1: be clear about the naming structure. You are a subject.
Speaker 5: All right. So I'm given a subject number and yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't believe in this day and age,
Speaker 1: I got used to the whole alien thing, you know,
Speaker 1: alien number, but now it's a subject number. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: so we're done. We're going through that.
Speaker 5: And then you you know, you just look at people and.
Speaker 1: The daisiness and confusion and confusion elders, women, babies.
Speaker 5: This is heart taking.
Speaker 1: And again you have a couple of military border performance
Speaker 1: toll and acting like they're in the Marine Corps. They're
Speaker 1: just shouting up the right and they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: treating people that they were disposable.
Speaker 5: So that's right there.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 1: Anyhow, so that's the they call it the intake. So
Speaker 1: you're you're doing the intake, and you're lined up and
Speaker 1: you're being stripped, not striptured, searched. You're searched, and then
Speaker 1: your your backpack is taking away. You open it up
Speaker 1: in front of them as if you were at the airport,
Speaker 1: and then they throw away stuff.
Speaker 5: That's that, even though they're not what's crazy is there.
Speaker 1: The backpack is going to be zipped and they're gonna
Speaker 1: be tagged and put away. So I'm not sure why
Speaker 1: thrown away food from the backpack is going to add
Speaker 1: anything or you.
Speaker 5: Know, some things don't make sense, but I guess that's
Speaker 5: what it is. So then you're you're you're done with
Speaker 5: the intake.
Speaker 1: You sit down inside the central area and you're waiting
Speaker 1: to be processed.
Speaker 5: Processing means fingerprints, picture.
Speaker 1: And then you're right down they take a copy of
Speaker 1: your passport and in there you write down the address
Speaker 1: in which you will be.
Speaker 5: Quote unquote released later on.
Speaker 1: So that's that, and then basically a couple of hours later,
Speaker 1: you're assigned a detention cell. It's not it's a big
Speaker 1: place and it's not a cell like a small cell.
Speaker 1: It's probably I don't know, twenty by I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm bad with that business. But any of the point
Speaker 1: is we're there, we're taking to this place. I don't know, James,
Speaker 1: so I don't know what you think of this. So
Speaker 1: so they don't put handcuffs on us, but they tell
Speaker 1: you to put your hands behind your back as you're walking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very strange.
Speaker 1: I don't understand what's the point of that. Like they
Speaker 1: insist of putting your hands as if they were handcuffed
Speaker 1: behind your back as you walk. It as as you're walking.
Speaker 1: That is a big rule. And if you don't do it,
Speaker 1: they get pissed at you. And I'm not gonna at you.
Speaker 1: I'm always testing the water, and I pissed them off
Speaker 1: a number of times.
Speaker 5: I did put my hands forward because I'm like, what
Speaker 5: what are you trying to get to? You know? Anyhow,
Speaker 5: so you get into your cell.
Speaker 1: Mine was two A right, two A yeah.
Speaker 5: Pod. I'm sorry, it's called they called pods pods. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: because you.
Speaker 1: Know we're we're into share what is it work share
Speaker 1: spaces Basically, pods.
Speaker 5: Said, yeah, we work here, we go, we work. So
Speaker 5: we were there, you're.
Speaker 1: Giving gym mats gym mats and then you know when
Speaker 1: we when when we all put our gym mats on
Speaker 1: the floor. Imagine there is zero space in between, Like
Speaker 1: the whole pod is covered with gym mass. Now you
Speaker 1: have to walk on gym mats basically anywhere you go.
Speaker 1: All right, So that's that's the fact. And then you're
Speaker 1: giving these what do you call them. There's the not thermos,
Speaker 1: the alloy foil blankets, whatever.
Speaker 2: We have blankets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, those guys, and they do
Speaker 1: kind of work. But for me, they're too small. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a tall guy. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So either your foots are sticking out or your head
Speaker 1: is sticking out or whatever.
Speaker 5: And I'm not the only one. That's a lot of
Speaker 5: people like that.
Speaker 1: So and then AC is blasting full speed twenty four
Speaker 1: to seven light, full bright light twenty four seven and yeah,
Speaker 1: and then a lot of you know, again they teach
Speaker 1: this in school and psychology want to want so light
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, AC freezing a c we're only
Speaker 1: allow of the shirt one shirt, one shirt.
Speaker 5: And then I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking about probably they have it on fifty five sixty,
Speaker 1: sixty sixty, no more than sixty degrees for sure, all right,
Speaker 1: and then you have people cold and getting sick.
Speaker 5: And then they cleaned.
Speaker 1: Three times a day to their credits where we all
Speaker 1: have to get out so the cleaning crew can come in.
Speaker 5: But here's the key.
Speaker 1: They clean at eight in the morning, at five in
Speaker 1: the at five in the afternoon, and at midnight.
Speaker 2: You can't sleep.
Speaker 5: Come on, dude, really seriously.
Speaker 1: And God forbid you ask. God forbid you ask, because
Speaker 1: that's just not allowed, you know. So midnight, exactly midnight sharp,
Speaker 1: get out people.
Speaker 5: Everybody sleep, everybody sleep, get up, get up, get up,
Speaker 5: get out, and there's no again. It's it's it's you know,
Speaker 5: we know these tactics. We read about these This is like,
Speaker 5: you know, torture in a way. You know. I bet
Speaker 5: you somewhere in the Geneva convention there's something about this.
Speaker 5: I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so, you know, I didn't want to create too
Speaker 1: much drama the first day, James. The second day I
Speaker 1: started testing the water. I'm like, you know, I'm being
Speaker 1: nice to everybody. Nobody speaks English, so I have to
Speaker 1: kind of speak up for people. You know, some people
Speaker 1: need to go medicine, I mean, you know, medicine or whatever.
Speaker 5: I speak for them whatever.
Speaker 1: And then some people are just don't understand when their
Speaker 1: name is called for it because it's misspelled.
Speaker 5: So I'll help for.
Speaker 1: That, you know, in general, like you know, I literally
Speaker 1: would walk around and ask for extra blankets and things
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 5: It's all of being doing.
Speaker 1: I hope the video will come out that we're doing
Speaker 1: a few Freedom of Information Act requests, so hopefully we can
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, hopefully we'll share that with you. I mean
Speaker 5: it takes.
Speaker 1: I mean they're gonna fight at tooth and nay, they're gonna.
Speaker 5: Fight at tooth and nail.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, thank you, thank you exactly. Sonyhow So, Yeah,
Speaker 1: after the second day.
Speaker 5: Again, they give you food, I mean food, I guess food. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they give you food.
Speaker 1: The second day, I started asking the question, Okay, when
Speaker 1: am I going to get my phone call? The first
Speaker 1: person said, oh, I'll pass on to your request. By
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I've asked like three four
Speaker 1: times to three four different people. So the pods area
Speaker 1: is manned supervised by DSS police, and then the processing
Speaker 1: in the central area is done by VP and BP
Speaker 1: and Customs and DSS hate each other. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just clear. They told me that to my face. They
Speaker 1: don't get along all right.
Speaker 5: Right, So.
Speaker 1: When you were talking to DSS police, because they're the
Speaker 1: one kind of the prison guards, they just don't then
Speaker 1: talk to VP, they don't convey the information that you're
Speaker 1: as a prisoner there.
Speaker 5: So that's been difficult.
Speaker 1: So you would want to ask to go to the
Speaker 1: nurse or something, so on the way you can try
Speaker 1: to pass on in flne sony know, so I kind
Speaker 1: of located it to it. And then on the second day,
Speaker 1: I asked three times I need my phone call.
Speaker 5: They came out and told me, you're crazy. We don't
Speaker 5: do phone calls. Stop asking.
Speaker 1: So you're telling me I'm a us soil I you know,
Speaker 1: I don't get to see the outdoor twenty four to seven,
Speaker 1: and you don't let me make a call to my
Speaker 1: lawyer or family.
Speaker 5: And that's when I just lost my my ship. So
Speaker 5: that by the end of the second.
Speaker 1: Day, I entered into a hunger strike. Wow, my body
Speaker 1: shut yeah, my body shut down completely. My body shut
Speaker 1: down completely. People were that that known me to be
Speaker 1: constantly active. I do I do yoga, I do I
Speaker 1: did yoga.
Speaker 5: Did you know?
Speaker 1: People will started following me doing activities and trying to
Speaker 1: be sharp. Uh you know, stay sharp. They saw me
Speaker 1: shut down completely. I didn't I didn't eat or drink anything.
Speaker 1: I mean completely, I shut down everything, all systems of board.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 1: So so right away my eyes are closed. The next
Speaker 1: day they start freaking out.
Speaker 5: They're bringing the wheelchair.
Speaker 1: But before they you know, just to let you know,
Speaker 1: before they put me on the wheelchair with a baton,
Speaker 1: they're just hammering me to make sure this is real,
Speaker 1: their hammer.
Speaker 5: I still have bruises, I still have like a red
Speaker 5: dot on my chest, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 5: so yeah, I mean, you know, the kindness of their heart. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Again, they're very hateful because of where they are and
Speaker 1: what's going on. So yeah, so uh yeah, So I'm
Speaker 1: taking to the nurse. The nurse tells me what's going on.
Speaker 1: I thought her, Look, my body has shut down. My
Speaker 1: wife and kids don't know where I'm at. They don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm live or death or dead, and I
Speaker 1: just can't eat or drink or anything. Listen, sir, it's
Speaker 1: okay if you don't want to eat, but you have
Speaker 1: to drink well at least water, or we're gonna put
Speaker 1: the IV. We can give you IV or medical or untie,
Speaker 1: the presence or anti anxiety medicine. Listen, lady, I've never
Speaker 1: had them time at the present, or medication. I rarely
Speaker 1: take medication. I would not have medication. That is not
Speaker 1: an option. I don't want the IVY. I don't want
Speaker 1: you to touch my body.
Speaker 5: Period.
Speaker 1: I am this is me fully where what the consequences are?
Speaker 5: And unless I get a hold of my Laura or
Speaker 5: call my.
Speaker 1: Family and tell them that I'm alive or where I'm at,
Speaker 1: this is gonna go. Last time I did this, I
Speaker 1: did it for four or five days, no problem. So
Speaker 1: they started freaking out. James there really they called the
Speaker 1: big guns.
Speaker 5: I think he was a lieutenant or whatever the ranking is.
Speaker 5: He came in, listen, what's going on? What are you doing?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 1: They can't be doing this in my house again, my house.
Speaker 1: The guy owns the place, all right. So I'm like, listen, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm done. If you don't give me my call, expect
Speaker 1: me to do this for the I'll go to the end.
Speaker 1: I've done this against corrupt governments and when I was
Speaker 1: arrested in Tunisia or whatever.
Speaker 5: I can do this all day long, man, all day long.
Speaker 5: So he's like you can't do this. This is ridiculous.
Speaker 1: I have eighteen hundred people here. You're going to start
Speaker 1: a problem. I don't want problems here. So he takes
Speaker 1: me straight up to the central area, put me in
Speaker 1: front of phone. Give me the phone number. I give
Speaker 1: him the phone number. He does my wife bam, bam, shazam.
Speaker 5: I call her. They were still asleep at seven in
Speaker 5: the morning. They have school at a thirty. So I
Speaker 5: live her a voicemail.
Speaker 1: I later found out that she did get the voicemail,
Speaker 1: thank god, and then she felt really good when she
Speaker 1: heard my voice and she knew what got you?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Tell you man, you know, it's just a no man's
Speaker 1: land and it's just and dude. When when I got
Speaker 1: to talk to the supervisor, when I escalated because they
Speaker 1: took my DNA, like what I told him, Look, what's
Speaker 1: going on?
Speaker 5: Why are you taking people's DNA? Like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: I told him, like, what are you accusing us for?
Speaker 1: Like what is the accusation exactly? He said, You're not
Speaker 1: accused of anything, and what am I guilty of? You're
Speaker 1: not guilty of anything, So why are you taking my DNA?
Speaker 1: And then when he's just because this is the guy,
Speaker 1: the main guy, this is the guy that I saw
Speaker 1: coming in in the intake and then laid on an outcake.
Speaker 1: He's got like twenty screens in front of him, he's
Speaker 1: manning the border. He's like, you know, it's the main guy.
Speaker 1: Like I said, it's him.
Speaker 5: So I told him, do you have your DNA? Your
Speaker 5: own DNA? Taking? He said yes, I did. Okay, I
Speaker 5: told him if your DNA was taken and you can
Speaker 5: take mine, that's fine.
Speaker 1: So they're taking people's DNA to put it in the database,
Speaker 1: and if you don't sign, they don't let you.
Speaker 5: They don't let you out. So you can stay there
Speaker 5: indefinitely until you do your DNA. How is this okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And you're not guilty of anything, James. You're not gilty
Speaker 5: of anything. That's the key. So you're not guilty of anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand if you're arrested for a misdemeanor
Speaker 1: or a felony.
Speaker 5: And you know, you know in states they take the DNA,
Speaker 5: I get it.
Speaker 1: But if you're there's no accusation, there's no guilty, And
Speaker 1: yet you're taking my DNA for what for what?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: So so it was really rough. It was really rough,
Speaker 1: and they were very very nasty. I mean, one lady,
Speaker 1: miss Diaz, I will never forget her, Officer DEAs. I mean,
Speaker 1: she was cussing left and right, left and right, left
Speaker 1: and right, and then I lost it, man, when I
Speaker 1: when when she had me for I think they had
Speaker 1: me do.
Speaker 5: Sign papers again? All right?
Speaker 1: So I was simply asking, why am I saying signing
Speaker 1: the same papers again?
Speaker 5: Do you want to leave? What do you want to leave?
Speaker 5: Do you want to leave? What you want to leave?
Speaker 1: And then on the same time, James, as she talks
Speaker 1: to me, she pauses, she looks at her colleagues, and
Speaker 1: she's smiling to them, and she's talking to them so nice.
Speaker 5: I simply told he, look, why are you talking nicely
Speaker 5: to your friends and you're so mean to us that?
Speaker 5: Why why are you doing this? Like?
Speaker 1: What is what is the problem? Did I did I?
Speaker 1: Did I call your names? Did I say something bad?
Speaker 5: No? But you're not my friend. Yeah. But even if
Speaker 5: I'm not your friend, why are you cussing at me?
Speaker 5: Why are you saying these bad things? That shuts her down?
Speaker 5: That totally shut out down, James. I mean, it was a.
Speaker 1: Completely different person after that, because it was in front
Speaker 1: of her boss.
Speaker 5: It was in front of her boss.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling you, man, they're just this is
Speaker 1: what happens when you have zero accountability zero. I mean, anybody,
Speaker 1: this is basic fruit in understanding of psychology one O
Speaker 1: one that if you give someone ultimate power, they're going
Speaker 1: to take advantage.
Speaker 5: And you know, I don't know what to tell you, man.
Speaker 5: I feel bad for the people in that attention because
Speaker 5: you know, I'm.
Speaker 1: Not saying they're being tortured, but it's just a you know,
Speaker 1: the little drops of water on your head, Yeah.
Speaker 5: You know, the little you know, after a while, you
Speaker 5: can turns out. So there's one guy from Russia that
Speaker 5: was there for three weeks, wow, three weeks.
Speaker 1: There's one guy from Brazil that was there for a week.
Speaker 1: Come on, man, I mean seriously, like that's too much.
Speaker 5: Yes, too much.
Speaker 2: So that's crazy.
Speaker 5: You know, that was horrific.
Speaker 1: And then when I was leaving, uh, I found out
Speaker 1: that they put the wrong address on my release form.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know if you know anything
Speaker 1: about the US immigration bureaucracy, James, it is horrific. It
Speaker 1: is horrific. All it takes is the one the wrong
Speaker 1: digit in the address, they send the paperwork to the
Speaker 1: wrong address.
Speaker 5: Oh, we did it, we sent it. We don't care.
Speaker 5: We don't care, you know what I mean. And then
Speaker 5: you're basically waiting all your life. And then that's pretty
Speaker 5: much what happened to me before when I was in
Speaker 5: the United States.
Speaker 1: And then you know, they don't care always to take
Speaker 1: it up with the with the US Postal Postal Service.
Speaker 5: Are you serious? Like you know he was going to
Speaker 5: put someone in jail and because he sent them the
Speaker 5: wrong address.
Speaker 1: Anyhow so, anyhow so I came back from the bus,
Speaker 1: the buses loaded, we're leaving. I came back to look,
Speaker 1: you got you know, you got the wrong address here, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on?
Speaker 5: Do you want to leave? What do you want to stay?
Speaker 5: Do you want to leave?
Speaker 1: That's all that's all they talk about. It's like a
Speaker 1: favor she's doing. It's not like a law thing. It's
Speaker 1: not the pro due process. No, no, I'll be more
Speaker 1: than happy to stick you in there because you complain
Speaker 1: about it. That a mistake that we made on your form.
Speaker 2: It's just yeah, the whole thing, it's it's just just
Speaker 2: don't need to make it as cruel and as hard
Speaker 2: and people of people have died in the outdoor attention
Speaker 2: in another site, not the place where you were in
Speaker 2: San Diego, right like, And it's a tragedy and it
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to happen, and it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be disandignified. And yeah, I didn't. I think maybe people
Speaker 2: will have disagreements about the immigration, the different immigration laws,
Speaker 2: and they might feel differently to the way I do
Speaker 2: what you do, David do, But I don't think anyone
Speaker 2: in their right mind would really justify the way you've
Speaker 2: been treated. And you can multiply that by thousands, right,
Speaker 2: and you're fortunate enough to be in relatively good health
Speaker 2: and not too young or not too old or not
Speaker 2: sick for this to be a deadly trip or right.
Speaker 2: And still it's obviously had a massive effect on you.
Speaker 2: And I can understand why, I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm having a little bit of nightmares againest with you,
Speaker 1: because what bugs me the most is those kids.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then on top of it, it's overwhelming because I
Speaker 1: was thrust in a position where sadly, I mean, I
Speaker 1: had to pick up for a lot of people. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, it's my family tragedy, I mean is
Speaker 1: an issue. But I mean, you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk too much about what I did in Tunisia,
Speaker 1: but I was standing up against corruption and against bribery
Speaker 1: and things like that, and it costed me a lot
Speaker 1: of problems. And it cost me, I mean, being in
Speaker 1: a blacklist in a government that's ever going negatively.
Speaker 5: You know, I'm jailing activists and jailing for speech.
Speaker 1: It said that that Tunisia, the home of the Arab
Speaker 1: spring now is turning into another dictator ship sadly, so
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't want to use that as a reason,
Speaker 1: but I mean it is what ruined my personal life
Speaker 1: because I was constantly being you know, harassed and pushed
Speaker 1: and shopped by Dunesian you know, ay holes.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then here I am to find myself and you know,
Speaker 1: like with a Dejah who kind of feeling with these
Speaker 1: gratuities themselves for nothing, So that that kind of triggered
Speaker 1: me a lot big time.
Speaker 5: James and uh uh. And then I felt like, you know,
Speaker 5: what is life worth? I mean, I know I'm coming
Speaker 5: from my kids near the love of my.
Speaker 1: Life and and then my wife as well, but you know,
Speaker 1: I want them to remember their dad as someone.
Speaker 5: Who sticks up for fathers and you know the.
Speaker 1: You know, James, the the most difficult part were was
Speaker 1: David mentioned the Persian.
Speaker 5: Guys running guys.
Speaker 1: You know, I got annoyed a little bit, James, because
Speaker 1: they were really lining up behind me and holding my hand,
Speaker 1: begging me to help them get out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and because I'm the only one that.
Speaker 1: Spoke the language, and it felt like, you know, they
Speaker 1: didn't have any recourse and the detention center.
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna let you, James. That was very difficult.
Speaker 5: It was very difficult.
Speaker 1: That was very I felt like when I was leaving,
Speaker 1: I was leaving friends, brothers, brothers behind, and.
Speaker 5: That stuck with me. Dude.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a few people specifically that really really,
Speaker 1: really really was.
Speaker 5: Stuck on me. And uh, it's just, uh, what is
Speaker 5: this world before? What are we doing all this poor?
Speaker 5: It was a genuine decent human being. This country needs
Speaker 5: as many workers and as many new citizens as possible.
Speaker 5: Instead of just shoving these people with hatred, just align them,
Speaker 5: just give them a chance, just rehab, just kind of
Speaker 5: make sure they know the langualges they do all this
Speaker 5: and be good. They all want to work, they all
Speaker 5: want to be good. Nobody that I met there is
Speaker 5: into drugs or anything. You know. It's just it sucks
Speaker 5: because it's not you. It's not shooting you yourself on
Speaker 5: the foot. It doesn't make sense. And I really felt
Speaker 5: really sad and on a.
Speaker 1: On a lighter note, getting into eventually released and getting
Speaker 1: on the bus and going to the Central uh the
Speaker 1: Central Elementary.
Speaker 5: I believe its call.
Speaker 1: And I just got out of the bus and I
Speaker 1: can hear the voices.
Speaker 5: Everybody is calling. I'm like, it's getting dark and I
Speaker 5: can't see. I can't see the people.
Speaker 1: But I found like at least twenty or eighteen people
Speaker 1: that I that were with me there and they were
Speaker 1: like they were crying and they were like thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, and uh, you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was. It was really hard woman. It really was
Speaker 1: really hard woman. And I appreciate that the that they
Speaker 1: recognized what we did. We tried to do a bunch
Speaker 1: of more Italians, Colombians, Mexicans, Ecuadorians, Uh, I mean, you
Speaker 1: name it. It was just a Turkish, uh An older gentleman, Iranian,
Speaker 1: the Iranians, the same Iranians that that that that I
Speaker 1: helped get onto the bus from from Willow the same guys.
Speaker 1: Eventually all I found them Central and it was really
Speaker 1: nice to see them and for them to just literally
Speaker 1: jump on me most and tell me thank you in
Speaker 1: so many languages.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that. So I just hope all this, this.
Speaker 1: This, this kind of get somewhere where they understand that
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be this way. It really doesn't.
Speaker 1: And we're not asking. I'm not asking either get more
Speaker 1: people or do this. I'm just saying there is little
Speaker 1: tweaks that are not meant to increase the integration or
Speaker 1: or make it impossible or anything.
Speaker 5: It's just little tweaks to, you know, to get this
Speaker 5: system a little better, that's all. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, make it a little kinder. And I think like
Speaker 2: it's always that way, right, Like it's people helping each
Speaker 2: other even when the government doesn't help them, and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah we just got use. I was there yesterday that
Speaker 2: that all the shelters at one of the sites were
Speaker 2: torn down, so like it's we'll have to go back
Speaker 2: and build them again. But yeah, yeah, people will pick
Speaker 2: because I think we all at least, or let's hear,
Speaker 2: I think people should be treated with dignity and that
Speaker 2: they deserve a little better than their being given currently.
Speaker 2: And have you been able to reunite with your your
Speaker 2: children yet or is that so in your future?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's it's uh technically on Thursday, I suppose you're
Speaker 1: not with them. I am getting there on steps. I'm
Speaker 1: financially not viable right now. I'm relying on some friends
Speaker 1: to who got me up to Los Angeles right now,
Speaker 1: and then we're collecting money for gas and uh my
Speaker 1: wife Lauren will be coming down on Thursday with the kids,
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna go to her mom's in Lancaster
Speaker 1: for a Christmas party that she does, and then from
Speaker 1: there we'll make it back up to Pisonal. And in
Speaker 1: this move, my wife was sheltering in uh at her sisters.
Speaker 1: But the house is overcrowded and there's no way I
Speaker 1: can stay there. I'll be That's something that I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out and where to stay. And I don't
Speaker 1: have friends up there and don't have anything. Uh, So
Speaker 1: that's uh, it's a problem that I'm having to deal with.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, I was given April twelve
Speaker 1: as a court date uh and by Nis and I
Speaker 1: have to.
Speaker 5: Deal with a lawyer to contact the lawyers, and they're expensive.
Speaker 1: The pro bono lawyers uh that we called, uh, they
Speaker 1: don't take they're not taking new cases.
Speaker 5: So it's.
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be difficult, but when
Speaker 1: you're in it and it's uh, you think that will
Speaker 1: be kind of a little better. But it's definitely not
Speaker 1: looking good. But you know, it'll be close to my
Speaker 1: kids somehow, and that's what matters to me. But it's
Speaker 1: just a struggle. I was a Congressmanship of Plase. I mean,
Speaker 1: what kind of resources you have for immigrants. I just
Speaker 1: need a little bit of a you know, start so
Speaker 1: I can get back on my feet. And they kept
Speaker 1: them in touch since I was in Africa through the trip.
Speaker 1: They're the only congress office that at least interacted with us,
Speaker 1: me and my wife. But you know, she looked at
Speaker 1: me from from behind the glass door and she said
Speaker 1: good luck. She sent me the county Immigrant Affairs office, uh,
Speaker 1: you know linked.
Speaker 5: And she told me good luck and then uh and
Speaker 5: said bye bye, and that's all that she did.
Speaker 1: So it's uh, it's tiring and not giving up, of course,
Speaker 1: but it's just it's very difficult change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's yeah, it shouldn't be this hard. It's complicated,
Speaker 2: or this taxing, especially in your family here already.
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to be I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, my wife is on welfare and they keep
Speaker 1: cutting her welfare smaller and smaller, just you.
Speaker 5: Know, two kids.
Speaker 1: I just need a chance to get up the back
Speaker 1: on my feet and be a good father to work.
Speaker 5: And I can't work right now. I'm not allowed to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have to find money, money for the lawyer.
Speaker 5: I have to find money for me and my kids.
Speaker 1: It's really quite a humbling experience. And I know I
Speaker 1: don't want to rely on anybody, but I mean.
Speaker 5: It's just it's just it's hard. It's hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no it is. And like I don't know how
Speaker 2: people are expected to pay for their legal representation when
Speaker 2: they're also expected not to work. It's just it's a
Speaker 2: system that seems to design to be as cruel and
Speaker 2: complicated as possible.
Speaker 1: Yet you know, the jobs are available, The jobs are available, James.
Speaker 1: I mean I contacted about four or five places. My
Speaker 1: previous work experience in LA and California was logistics and
Speaker 1: parental and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: I told my previous bosses.
Speaker 1: They all told me, come more work, you know, get
Speaker 1: your steps up figured out and come over.
Speaker 5: We'll find a job. So we have plenty of vacancies basically,
Speaker 5: I mean you know so uh but you know here,
Speaker 5: you are here, you are there, you are Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then like it's it's I've heard so many of these stories.
Speaker 2: But and then stop upsetting me. And I'm glad in
Speaker 2: a way because you know they're bad and they shouldn't.
Speaker 2: They should be upsetting to everyone who is and I'm
Speaker 2: sure everyone who is this will want to do whatever
Speaker 2: they can to make this a little easier. And then,
Speaker 2: like any orgs or nonprofits that have been helping you
Speaker 2: since you've got in the US, so you think.
Speaker 5: People should oh man, nothing nothing. I mean it's been
Speaker 5: you know those who call.
Speaker 1: Very Shan trick as far as Asian, very Kens or
Speaker 1: this or that is very specific.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the time of everyone, it's I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: no joke.
Speaker 1: And if you're a father trying to make it to
Speaker 1: your kids and trying to you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: do right by your kids.
Speaker 5: Doesn't mean anything, nothing, absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1: So that's terrible.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first Christmas. This is the first
Speaker 1: Christmas for the kids outside of their where they grew up.
Speaker 1: I really wanted to make it as family friendly and
Speaker 1: happy as possible, but I don't even have the capacity
Speaker 1: to give them gifts or anything, or or or even.
Speaker 5: I don't know. This is gonna be.
Speaker 4: Hard, Yeah man, it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah man. Sorry, that's that's okay.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just I'm just a drop in an
Speaker 1: ocean of of of the spare when it comes to immigrants,
Speaker 1: and I'm getting messages from some of them in New York,
Speaker 1: some of them in UH North Carolina, some of them
Speaker 1: in UH and in Illinois, a couple in California. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're they're still desperate for help, and especially with language
Speaker 1: and all that. So you know, I'm grinding and they're
Speaker 1: doing the best I can. But you know, it's a
Speaker 1: reality check. It's a reality check joke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's it's really. I mean, it's sickening
Speaker 2: how quickly you can be like kind and nothing when
Speaker 2: the state doesn't care about you. But I want to
Speaker 2: thank you so much for giving us your story and
Speaker 2: your time and being so open with us, because I
Speaker 2: think that's the only way that this stuff changes is
Speaker 2: that people here like number numbers are great and and
Speaker 2: your story is one of tens of thousands, but I
Speaker 2: think sometimes we need to hear individual stories to understand true,
Speaker 2: the human impact.
Speaker 5: Of this true, true, true, And like we'll stay in touch.
Speaker 2: You have my phone number. Anything you need, anything we
Speaker 2: can do for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can't. I can't wait to come
Speaker 1: down to the border. I'm not giving up on the border, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I want to bring at some point my
Speaker 1: kids to see the price, and then I want to contribute.
Speaker 5: I want to find a way to give back. I
Speaker 5: want to. I know I can't do it right now,
Speaker 5: but I send my.
Speaker 1: Mom in my mind, and I know I'm not going
Speaker 1: to give up on that, on that on that dream
Speaker 1: of coming back there and continue to help with the volunteers.
Speaker 2: That's very kind of Yeah, well when you come down
Speaker 2: that me know, bring some ray tools and we can
Speaker 2: we can build some sounds.
Speaker 5: Good sounds, good fun.
Speaker 4: I mean, so I'm just like I'm just for processing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: me too, for processing this.
Speaker 3: And like hearing Amos say all this is like fuck,
Speaker 3: like that's that's the conversation right, just with what he's
Speaker 3: saying in his accountability is human nature. Like something in
Speaker 3: the way that he was saying that, I was like
Speaker 3: taking a piles on everything that I want to just
Speaker 3: share because I really like it hit to the core
Speaker 3: of like my own frustration with our response is it's
Speaker 3: not getting to the point that like what he was
Speaker 3: what he was saying other words right now to say
Speaker 3: that my mind is now totally much.
Speaker 2: Well ended there. I do want to give both of
Speaker 2: you a chance to plug any and all organizations so
Speaker 2: you think can help, and because the people will get
Speaker 2: to listen to this will break up to two parks.
Speaker 2: People will want to alleviate the suffering, and there are people,
Speaker 2: including yourselves and myself, trying to do that. So if
Speaker 2: there's an organization that you'd like to plug, fundraiser you'd
Speaker 2: like to plug, please do well.
Speaker 7: Just the way the conversation ended, the thing that I
Speaker 7: was thinking is you know, just a you know, anybody
Speaker 7: listening to the to what Amos has said, just one
Speaker 7: one very small but perhaps a meaningful thing would be
Speaker 7: to do something to enable him to buy some presents
Speaker 7: for his kids.
Speaker 4: I think that would be pretty cool.
Speaker 6: M m m m m m