Speaker 1: Wording. Today's episode contains spoilers for episode four, season two
Speaker 1: of the Last of Us.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 3: Hey, it is Jason Catepcio and I'm Rosie Night and.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to x Ray video of the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive the to your Babe shows, movies, comments, and
Speaker 1: pop culture. Coming to you from My Art podcast, where
Speaker 1: we're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: Thursday plus news.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, we're talking about It.
Speaker 4: It's the fourth episode of the Last of Us season two.
Speaker 4: We are now officially over halfway through the Last of
Speaker 4: Us season two, and it's making me and Jason feel
Speaker 4: some things. I think the Internet is feeling some things too,
Speaker 4: So we're going to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it. We open on a flashback twenty
Speaker 1: eighteen the Seattle quarantine Zone. We're in a Federa van
Speaker 1: and the Federa dudes are assholes. They're talking shit about
Speaker 1: the residents of the quarantine zone, who they call voters.
Speaker 3: Because they're no longer allowed to vote yes.
Speaker 1: And they're talking about like a particularly brutal Federra commander
Speaker 1: who is also very stupid, who is beating these residents
Speaker 1: ruthlessly because they're handing out pamphlets, which we later find
Speaker 1: out are like proto Serahphyte pamphlets, and all these federal
Speaker 1: soldiers are laughing about how brutal this dummy is. And
Speaker 1: then one of them, Isaac answers one of the younger
Speaker 1: feder you know, why do we call them voters? And
Speaker 1: to as you said, Rosie, it's because, as Isaac says,
Speaker 1: we took away their ability to vote, and now we
Speaker 1: jokingly call them voters. Their patrol vehicle stops because there's
Speaker 1: a bus that's been pulled across this like suburban street,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, oh, what does this mean? Could
Speaker 1: it be the WLF, could it be somebody else? And
Speaker 1: Sergeant's like, I'm going to go out. I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk peacefully to them. Okay, So everybody's stay in the van.
Speaker 1: You new guy, come with me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like you who asked about the voters, who
Speaker 2: seems to have not necessarily found the right you haven't.
Speaker 1: Been molded by the brutality yet. Come with me. And
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of civilians in the street. They're unarmed,
Speaker 1: but they seem very you know, prepared for a confrontation,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that they're unarmed. Their leader is Hanrahan
Speaker 1: Alana Youbach, the wonderful usually comedic.
Speaker 2: Yes, shocking to see, just a little bit of just
Speaker 2: a little.
Speaker 3: Bit of sad face acting.
Speaker 2: And she really like sucked me in, Like you can
Speaker 2: tell she's tired.
Speaker 1: She's tired and is shit. She she has been waiting
Speaker 1: for Isaac, and apparently they've been, you know, expecting each other.
Speaker 1: So Isaac is like, you Handrahan. She's like, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like you Isaac. Yes. They shake hands and then Isaac
Speaker 1: turns back towards his patrol vehicle, pops two grenades out
Speaker 1: of his vest, throws them in the van, shuts the
Speaker 1: van door, blows up all the guys inside, Wow, kills
Speaker 1: the driver as he tumbles out, and then turns to
Speaker 1: the new guy and is like, okay, I make your choice.
Speaker 1: What do you want to do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, tricky, And he makes this really interesting comment where
Speaker 2: he kind of says he throws in the grenades and
Speaker 2: then he shuts the door, and he's like, it's.
Speaker 3: Because you're all that guy.
Speaker 2: You're all that same guy who will smash someone's face
Speaker 2: against a wall and laugh about it.
Speaker 3: And laugh about it.
Speaker 2: Also absolutely hilarious to see Drake from Drake and Josh
Speaker 2: theare that was, whichever one it was. I was like,
Speaker 2: great character casting.
Speaker 3: Like I love to see this. This throws me back.
Speaker 2: Also kind of terrifying to see a kid actor and
Speaker 2: someone that you kind of grew up with as just
Speaker 2: like the worst person you could ever know in and.
Speaker 3: Apocolypch feels very real. But yeah, he does have that.
Speaker 1: He does have that like punchable popular kid face exactly.
Speaker 2: And I thought this was just such a fantastic cold
Speaker 2: open and definitely, like, I think it's probably the strongest
Speaker 2: part of the episode because it really establishes just how
Speaker 2: much okay, yeah, how much of a kind of crazy
Speaker 2: space Seattle was back then in twenty eighteen, and why
Speaker 2: it is no longer under feder Come on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we go to the present. Dina and Ellie
Speaker 1: are scouting. They see a w WLF. Oh wait, I've
Speaker 1: fast forward. Sorry, we flashed back to the present. It's
Speaker 1: now eleven years later. Dina and Ellie are scavenging around
Speaker 1: buildings very much like the video game. Dina finds something
Speaker 1: which we will later find out what it is because
Speaker 1: she's in like a drug store or prescription drugs. They
Speaker 1: then ride into the Capitol District and this it. They're
Speaker 1: surprised at how intact it is because it was supposedly
Speaker 1: bombed out. There's gay pride symbols and flags everywhere, but
Speaker 1: the girls don't know what that means. They think. Ellie
Speaker 1: wonders if it means that they were just like happy
Speaker 1: and optimistic. There are skeletons of feder soldiers everywhere and
Speaker 1: tank but burned out tanks that have been overgrown with moss.
Speaker 1: Clearly there is a battle here. Ellie investigates the tank,
Speaker 1: doesn't find anything but makes a loud noise. Luckily, No,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you any quick slap, like you have
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: The one in control here. You are the Joel in
Speaker 2: this situation. She's very much Ah, you are not, but
Speaker 2: you need to be for Dina. I'm for you to
Speaker 2: survive like that was such a I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: Would I also do that in the apocalypse, Yes, but
Speaker 2: that's why I would die like five years ago, I
Speaker 2: have nice I'm no understanding, I'm no misunderstanding.
Speaker 3: I would die. I can't run, I'm not quiet, I'm clumsy.
Speaker 2: But Ellie like, come on, I know you're immune, but please, babe,
Speaker 2: do not make the ringing fucking like gong.
Speaker 3: Noise to let people know where you are.
Speaker 1: They spot a tower on a hill that has a
Speaker 1: WLF marker on one of its no longer operational satellite dishes,
Speaker 1: and Ellie's like, great, let's go, let's run in again.
Speaker 1: Kind of a weird characterization of Ellie is like the
Speaker 1: tumble into kind of reckless. Yeah. Dina is like, wait
Speaker 1: a second. They're on an elevated position, they're in a tower.
Speaker 1: They'll see us coming. We're going to ride up on
Speaker 1: a horse. Two people like, let's wait until dark. So
Speaker 1: they go and find a place to hold up until dark.
Speaker 1: It's a record store. They are looking around. There's guitars
Speaker 1: and stuff. Upstairs. Ellie finds an acoustic guitar that is
Speaker 1: in unrealistically good.
Speaker 2: That shit would be warped as well, because this room
Speaker 2: had to be so humid for all those plants.
Speaker 1: This is the Pacific, this is a Pacific Northwest, Like, it's.
Speaker 3: Very what it would be warped.
Speaker 2: And we get it, like, you know, we get it,
Speaker 2: and you get some beautiful shots of the guitar, but
Speaker 2: come on, I'm saying is this is something I will
Speaker 2: bring up throughout our discussion. This is the first episode
Speaker 2: of the Last of Us where I kind of got
Speaker 2: a little pushed out of the logic of the show
Speaker 2: in a way that kind of this usually just immerses
Speaker 2: me emotionally and vibes wise, and this was the first
Speaker 2: one where there was a few different things that kind
Speaker 2: of took me out. Now, this it took me out
Speaker 2: a little bit, but I'm willing to accept it because
Speaker 2: I know the importance of the guitar. But the next
Speaker 2: choice they make.
Speaker 1: I just want to say before I continue the recap,
Speaker 1: but I think that this is I think what we're
Speaker 1: both reacting. Certainly, what my thoughts watching this was this
Speaker 1: is the most explicitly video game loyal episode that we've
Speaker 1: seen for me, and I think that's kind of what
Speaker 1: pushes you out of the reality of it is some
Speaker 1: of these video game moments that butt up against the
Speaker 1: reality that has been established in the show version of
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 3: I think that's a great way of putting it.
Speaker 1: So Ellie plays take on Me by Aha. But like
Speaker 1: the whole song, the entire thing, it's only seven episodes, guys,
Speaker 1: can we anyway Dina comes upstairs and sees this and
Speaker 1: hears this and is like, oh, ship, now I'm already.
Speaker 1: Now I'm really falling in love. And you know, Ellie
Speaker 1: is like, there was Joel. Joel taught me how to
Speaker 1: play guitar, and you know they're they're both in that
Speaker 1: moment very thankful for their past relationships with Joel. Elsewhere,
Speaker 1: Isaac now the leader of the wolf, or a leader,
Speaker 1: we should say, it's it's unclear what the same hierarchy is.
Speaker 3: He's at least that he's allowed to torture people, you know.
Speaker 1: So he lights a stove and he's giving this monologue
Speaker 1: about how in the past, you know, when he was
Speaker 1: wooing a woman, he would lean on his culinary skills,
Speaker 1: and how back then he always wanted this specific brand
Speaker 1: of French cook wear that was very expensive, but now
Speaker 1: that like le apocalypse has happened, he can just have
Speaker 1: it because it's free.
Speaker 3: That would be like me with Lacrousete.
Speaker 2: I'll be living in the Lacrosse life before I get
Speaker 2: hit by his zombie. I have a cook at least
Speaker 2: at least once stew and at lacrase, I have.
Speaker 1: A couple of pieces of Lacrousette and I do love them.
Speaker 1: And you know, he's heating this beautiful bronze pan copper
Speaker 1: pan on a gas stove, and it turns out that
Speaker 1: he's interrogating a naked and chained Seraphyte who has been
Speaker 1: beaten brutally. And this Seraphyite is a fanatic, and Isaac
Speaker 1: is burning him with the pan, saying like, where are
Speaker 1: you going to attack next? What's happening? They get into
Speaker 1: this kind of brief argument about like who broke the
Speaker 1: there's a truce apparently, so who broke the truth? Did
Speaker 1: this Serifices break the truce by killing a child, the
Speaker 1: WLF child with an arrow? Or did the WLF break
Speaker 1: the truce by killing various members of the scars in
Speaker 1: other ways? And they go back and forth about this,
Speaker 1: and I Wasac's like, I don't care about that, Like,
Speaker 1: just tell me where you guys are attacking next. And
Speaker 1: then it becomes very clear that this serified is not
Speaker 1: going to talk. Offers his other hand even offers up
Speaker 1: like go ahead, burn the other hands. So then Isaac,
Speaker 1: finally fed up, shoots this guy.
Speaker 2: I found this really hard to watch, which I do
Speaker 2: think is meant to be the point, but again when
Speaker 2: it comes with the logic of the show, and also
Speaker 2: like the choices they've made, for example, like the way
Speaker 2: they chose to show Joel's death compared to how we
Speaker 2: get it in the game.
Speaker 3: I thought that was a really.
Speaker 2: Thoughtful, evocative, scary, leaves up to your imagination kind of moment,
Speaker 2: even though we did see the moment of death. This
Speaker 2: to me felt almost like in the torture porn realm.
Speaker 2: And I understand and that it is leaning into what
Speaker 2: we can evocative of real things we've seen in war,
Speaker 2: but it didn't work for me in the context of
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 3: It was too much.
Speaker 1: I think the show has been is cognizant of that,
Speaker 1: and they always add in scenes like this. They'll have
Speaker 1: like the younger member of the WLF, Like they have
Speaker 1: that scene the torture is going on outside and there's
Speaker 1: a guy, there's a younger guy outside and he's like,
Speaker 1: this is really fucked up. This is really fucked up.
Speaker 1: The other guy is like, Isaac knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1: This is great. It was Francois Truffaux, I think I
Speaker 1: believe who said, you know, there's no such thing as
Speaker 1: an anti war movie, and I think that's true. I
Speaker 1: think that I think that's how the scene made me
Speaker 1: feel like that there's no even though we're meant to
Speaker 1: understand the brutality, the horror of the inhumanity of this scene,
Speaker 1: it left me wondering, are we not elevating it anyway?
Speaker 2: You know, you're not still having Jeffrey Wright do it
Speaker 2: while giving a full monologue about, you know, the life
Speaker 2: he led before.
Speaker 3: I'm also very interested.
Speaker 2: This is more of a conversation I want on discord
Speaker 2: to have and i want to see what the Internet thinks.
Speaker 2: I'm very interested in the difference in representation of the
Speaker 2: Serophytes and the WLF and the way that they're kind
Speaker 2: of representing them here compared to the game. I do
Speaker 2: think there is an added complexity to the to the wh.
Speaker 1: No, for sure, I think both sides, even the Seraphytes,
Speaker 1: like this. The Seraphytes says something to the effect of,
Speaker 1: you really get the feeling of how deeply they're they
Speaker 1: really believe their religious feeling for this for this profit
Speaker 1: is very deep. And this person who's being tortured says,
Speaker 1: you know, every day you're going to lose because every
Speaker 1: day we get stronger and every day you get weaker
Speaker 1: despite the fact that you have tanks.
Speaker 2: And the irony is seeing him torture this guy, Like
Speaker 2: this kind of proves that in its own way, right.
Speaker 1: It made me feel a lot of the way I
Speaker 1: felt about playing the game, which is like I'm getting
Speaker 1: worn out by this violence.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this bleakness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I did feel a little bit like that
Speaker 1: with this.
Speaker 3: I think it's I.
Speaker 2: Think it's the nudity, the skinniness of the actor. It's
Speaker 2: very evocative of people in war camps, things we've sin
Speaker 2: in real life. Things are going on right now. So
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, it was a bit too much for me,
Speaker 2: and I think you're right. This is the first time
Speaker 2: where I got that same I had that same feeling
Speaker 2: with the game of like the bleakness. But I think
Speaker 2: that actually might be something this episode is struggling with
Speaker 2: because you know what in the game, and this is
Speaker 2: bleak because your action in the game it's killing people.
Speaker 2: Like by the time in the game you get here,
Speaker 2: you've killed so many people. But like there is that
Speaker 2: in part of the game that actually engages your brain
Speaker 2: and is like, now you.
Speaker 3: Have to go and do this. Here's an activity.
Speaker 2: Here's the little bit of dopamine that you get from
Speaker 2: playing this game. You don't necessarily get that in the
Speaker 2: same way as you do in a video game.
Speaker 3: Here, because you're just now, you're just watching.
Speaker 1: Ellie and Dina at night sneak up to the tower.
Speaker 1: Dina funds sees the way in. There's a broken window
Speaker 1: and you can get in there. But what do they do?
Speaker 1: Dina says, if we encounter other wolves, like wolves who
Speaker 1: weren't responsible for Jackson and for Joel's death, what do
Speaker 1: we do if we find them? And Ellie just like
Speaker 1: gives her a look like obviously we fucking murder these people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like we're gonna kill him. Don't you have a guard?
Speaker 1: We're gonna kill them, right and uh And Dina's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I get it, Like yeah for sure. So
Speaker 1: inside they go in and immediately in a hallway they
Speaker 1: find one of the w lf riddled with arrows, and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, this is those people on the trail
Speaker 1: who are responsible. This is who did this. And then
Speaker 1: they go in to like a larger room kind of
Speaker 1: like like.
Speaker 5: Theater or a kind of like way I think it
Speaker 5: was as it was a news studio I think like
Speaker 5: a so like a you know, a broadcast studio, and
Speaker 5: there's several WLF bodies mutilated in Hannibal Lecter style.
Speaker 2: There hung up, the guts are falling. Now, it's very dramatic.
Speaker 2: I feel like the Seraphites have too much time on
Speaker 2: their hands. I'm not gonna lie when you've got to
Speaker 2: make a ritual to you know, for your dead profit. Sure, okay,
Speaker 2: I get it.
Speaker 1: So they look around, Ellie finds the radio and they realize,
Speaker 1: oh shit, the backup is the wolf. Backup must be coming.
Speaker 1: So they hide and now it becomes the video game,
Speaker 1: right They have to escape from the wolf. They get
Speaker 1: separated for a brief period of time, but then Ellie
Speaker 1: goes to choke out one of these wolf guys in
Speaker 1: one of the most explicitly like video game action sequences.
Speaker 1: She sneaks up, she jumps on his back, just like.
Speaker 3: I loved how hard they made it look.
Speaker 2: I have to say that bit really brought me back
Speaker 2: into the game again, and also into the reality of
Speaker 2: the world, which is Ellie as a teenager and leverage
Speaker 2: is great. And while real naked choke holds are great
Speaker 2: and she is, it's still an adult man.
Speaker 3: You know, so I thought they did a good job
Speaker 3: of making that fight look real. Do you know she's
Speaker 3: just out killing people now too.
Speaker 1: She killed Love, she kills another, and they escape into
Speaker 1: what we learn is one of these walled off tunnels
Speaker 1: that lead underground. The wolves follow them down there, and
Speaker 1: they're throwing flares all around so they can see around,
Speaker 1: and these trigger the cordy steps tendrils, and next thing
Speaker 1: you know, there's a fucking horde in here and it's
Speaker 1: real mad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like in some basically in a metro
Speaker 2: train kind of yeah, and yeah, but it's bad times.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 2: There's so many of them and it's not looking good
Speaker 2: for for any of them. And this is where I
Speaker 2: will say again, a little bit of a little bit
Speaker 2: of plot armor is coming in there for Stick in
Speaker 2: this episode without Joel, you do start to question, mostly,
Speaker 2: I think because to me, they are trying to balance
Speaker 2: this kind of light hearted Ellie with Dina, which I'm
Speaker 2: really happy.
Speaker 3: I want her to be happy.
Speaker 2: That's our girl, but like I don't feel like she
Speaker 2: is making the kind of serious decisions that make you
Speaker 2: think in the game, well, okay, she's actually going to
Speaker 2: be able to survive this here, it's a lot, there's.
Speaker 3: A silliness to it.
Speaker 2: There's kind of like a recklessness that really have me thinking,
Speaker 2: like these two are dying, Like there's no way they
Speaker 2: don't die.
Speaker 3: If this is a real situation.
Speaker 1: There's a reality that has been established over one season
Speaker 1: of this show, plus these epis, plus the episodes preceding this,
Speaker 1: that I think has been heightened certainly, like noticeably heightened
Speaker 1: for this episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Ellie and Dina are fleeing. They flee into a
Speaker 1: train out of a train, on the top of a train.
Speaker 1: They run. There's so many up the stairs out of
Speaker 1: the train tunnel. They get kind of hung up on
Speaker 1: this turnstile as they're trying to get through. Ellie gets through,
Speaker 1: and then Dina's trying to get through and she's kind
Speaker 1: of trapped in there for a second, and one of
Speaker 1: the infected runs up and is about to bite her,
Speaker 1: so Ellie puts her arm out unless the infected bite it,
Speaker 1: and crazy Dina is shocked by this, but there's no
Speaker 1: time to really think. They escape. They get to the theater,
Speaker 1: which is one of the famous havens from the Last
Speaker 1: of Us Too, and when they're in the lobby of
Speaker 1: the theater. Ellie is thinking nothing really that dramatic, other
Speaker 1: than their escape has happened. But when she turns around,
Speaker 1: Dina has her gun out and she's about to blow
Speaker 1: Ellie's brains out.
Speaker 3: Why didn't Ellie tell her this before?
Speaker 2: I will say, big, big mistake, Ellie, You're silly, gun.
Speaker 1: Says, somewhat unrealistic. I think that Dina wouldn't just blow
Speaker 1: her head.
Speaker 3: I know that's what I think too. I think Dina.
Speaker 2: Probably would have shown her in the head from the
Speaker 2: back so she didn't have to look at her.
Speaker 3: But this is I don't think you would get this
Speaker 3: kind of emotional I think you would have been.
Speaker 2: She's so clearly been trained by Joel, so easy to
Speaker 2: shoot someone down. I did find this to be a
Speaker 2: little a kind of little again plot or coming out.
Speaker 2: We know Ellie is not going to die in this moment,
Speaker 2: but I do think that there was different discussions that
Speaker 2: could have been had also, And I think we'll talk
Speaker 2: about this more.
Speaker 3: But when you are a teenage.
Speaker 2: Girl, or when you in real life, or when you're
Speaker 2: reading teenage girls in a Ya novel or something, guess
Speaker 2: what teenage girls always do.
Speaker 3: They always tell their best friends their secrets.
Speaker 2: There's no fucking way that Ellie lived there for five
Speaker 2: years being friends with Dina and Jesse and didn't fucking
Speaker 2: tell them she's immune. I that just doesn't make sense,
Speaker 2: and it would have made this make more sense.
Speaker 3: But I get it. They want a little dramatic moment.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you guys can guess that she does
Speaker 2: not shoot Ellie.
Speaker 3: That would be crazy, though, that would be a crazy twist.
Speaker 1: So Ellie is like, oh, this little thing, this bite,
Speaker 1: did I never tell you about the immunity thing? So listen,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. I'm immune. I understand that you don't
Speaker 1: believe me right now, but I'm gonna go over here,
Speaker 1: bandage this up, and fall asleep. And you're just like,
Speaker 1: keep your gun on me and watch me. If I turn,
Speaker 1: you shoot me. But I won't. So when Ellie wakes up,
Speaker 1: she's like, ha ha, look at this. I am immune.
Speaker 1: Look I unbandaged my arm and the and the bite
Speaker 1: looks nasty but it's not clearly not forceps infected. And
Speaker 1: Dina's like, this is fucking amazing. And since we're sharing secrets,
Speaker 1: I am pregnant Jesse's baby okay, and and Ellie's like, well,
Speaker 1: how do you know, Like that's a really old and
Speaker 1: that was what she found in the pregnant bodego was
Speaker 1: a pregnancy test. She's like, well that was a really old,
Speaker 1: like at least twenty year old pregnancy test. How do
Speaker 1: you know? And then I.
Speaker 3: Was like she was she was paying for a long
Speaker 3: time and.
Speaker 1: That shows you a lot of people. They then make
Speaker 1: out and you know, all this vulnerability, this newfound vulnerability
Speaker 1: with each other has like leveled up their relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also the hawniness that Dina's being pregnant from
Speaker 2: the hormones. Suddenly they having sex and I love that
Speaker 2: for them, Good for them.
Speaker 3: I support this relationship.
Speaker 1: Also, I feel like maybe this is my own like
Speaker 1: fear of viruses.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I was gonna say the same thing.
Speaker 1: But for me, I'm like, listen, I want to make
Speaker 1: out with you, obviously have I'm falling in love with you,
Speaker 1: but let's give it another dick. Can we just let
Speaker 1: it go.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not a couple.
Speaker 2: They might be inside of you still likes type situation.
Speaker 3: You're spitting in my mouth. I'm turning into a fucking cortersps.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know what's going on, Like, come on,
Speaker 2: I know it that again that teenage girls. But I
Speaker 2: think I think in this episode, and we're kind of
Speaker 2: talking about this a little bit before, like I think
Speaker 2: in this episode, I am lacking I'm lacking a little
Speaker 2: bit of teenage girl noess. I actually think this is
Speaker 2: both kind of weirdly acting like that they're kind of
Speaker 2: sillier than teenage girls would be in this city situation,
Speaker 2: but while also kind of not giving them a lot
Speaker 2: of the complexy in depth that we could have seen.
Speaker 2: We've seen a lot of YA stories, We've read a
Speaker 2: lot of YA stories. Those are the stories that have
Speaker 2: really pushed forward blockbuster movies for the last twenty five
Speaker 2: years pre MCU. You know, Hunger Games, Twilight, Maize Runner,
Speaker 2: and now you know, there is this wave of really incredible, thoughtful,
Speaker 2: deep YA from all different kinds of writers that has
Speaker 2: kind of exploded onto the scene. So I think here
Speaker 2: I was just feeling a little of like the shallowness
Speaker 2: of this representation of two teenage girls. But again, and
Speaker 2: this is both a problem and a excuse or an answer,
Speaker 2: is there's only seven episodes. This season, and I feel
Speaker 2: like a lot of the time that was taken up.
Speaker 3: This episode didn't feel as urgent to me as some
Speaker 3: of the other episodes we've seen.
Speaker 1: I will I will acknowledge that I think that Listen,
Speaker 1: I thought this episode was fine.
Speaker 3: But that's the first time we've used the word fine
Speaker 3: for this show. We are usually great.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's bad by any means, but I
Speaker 1: will acknowledge that I think my looking ahead towards seven
Speaker 1: episodes is does partially is hanging over my perception a
Speaker 1: great episode anyway. They talk about Adina talks about why
Speaker 1: she and Jesse broke up, and it's typically complicated.
Speaker 2: She also reveals that she had been like she was bisexual,
Speaker 2: but her mom had told her, you can't like girls,
Speaker 2: you can only like guys, and it sounds like with
Speaker 2: Jesse she did like him, but she was also kind
Speaker 2: of trying to make herself like him because he was
Speaker 2: a good guy and he was someone that.
Speaker 3: Would keep her safe.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I thought that was an interesting a little
Speaker 2: bit more of that depth that I was hoping. I
Speaker 2: honestly could have probably watched a whole episode with just
Speaker 2: Ellie and Dina in the theater kind of trying to
Speaker 2: navigate out this relationship and give us a little bit
Speaker 2: more about what this relationship means to them, because the
Speaker 2: show has definitely given us a little bit more than
Speaker 2: the game where you're kind of just thrown into it.
Speaker 2: But I also think that because you're not just thrown
Speaker 2: into it, it also is giving us a little bit
Speaker 2: more to question, like how.
Speaker 3: Deep is this? Like how close are they? You know?
Speaker 3: Again time issues.
Speaker 1: The radio that they took from the Wolves comes to
Speaker 1: life and they realize the Wolves are close by and
Speaker 1: they're calling out patrol points, which Dina, because she has
Speaker 1: a map and stuff, is like, oh, I think I
Speaker 1: recognize where that is. Let's go to the roof and
Speaker 1: go check it out. So they go up there and
Speaker 1: they look across town and there's basically like a war
Speaker 1: going on. Like I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 3: I was like, like, who's dropping a bomb over?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 3: Isn't Like that's got some problems, guys.
Speaker 1: There's like full on artillery explosions, like obvious machine gun fire,
Speaker 1: like parts of buildings like exploding. I guess they're shooting
Speaker 1: at the seraphytes, but with such an amount of hardware
Speaker 1: and artillery for like what is essentially like a and
Speaker 1: of cult members who have bows and arrows that it
Speaker 1: kind of doesn't make sense that you use.
Speaker 2: This stuff, like uh, they still just robin hooding it
Speaker 2: out here, because otherwise it seems kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: Because it's you see, I mean ten twelve artillery shells
Speaker 1: go off as there as they're watching, which, like, if
Speaker 1: you do the math is like how many how much
Speaker 1: artillery do they have? Like using two hundred shells a day.
Speaker 1: That's kind of to get the sorrow fights, I know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: so Dina points out, She's like, Okay, see that building
Speaker 1: like across that maybe war that's going on, that's where
Speaker 1: we need to go. And they look at this and
Speaker 1: it looks really scary and it's a mirror of when
Speaker 1: Abby and her group were looking at Jackson and seeing
Speaker 1: how built up it was. And Ellie's like, Dina, you
Speaker 1: don't need to go, like this is actually I'm sorry
Speaker 1: I brought you here. This is actually insane, like you're pregnant,
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, Like you stay, I'll go, But of course
Speaker 1: Dina's like, no, I'm.
Speaker 3: Going, as if that was never gonna act.
Speaker 1: Come, So let's talk about it. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: a I think it's fine, but this is the episode
Speaker 1: where it's the there. It's so heavily built on the
Speaker 1: video game style action sequences that it begins to feel
Speaker 1: like something of a shift from the more character driven
Speaker 1: stuff that we had seen previously, and which is why
Speaker 1: I'm like lukewarm on this episode. It it feels a
Speaker 1: little bit like to me because like action is it's
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I don't love I love action, love action,
Speaker 1: but it feels a little bit like filler, and.
Speaker 2: That's what I felt like, And I feel like you
Speaker 2: can't have filler in a seven episode show, Like I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: you just you just can't. Even if it was ten episodes,
Speaker 2: maybe one filler. I also think obviously incredibly hard to
Speaker 2: come back after a show where like the Last of
Speaker 2: Us Season one, that was essentially seen and acclaimed as
Speaker 2: like a perfect show that elevated your game, that questioned
Speaker 2: choices your game made.
Speaker 3: I think it's very hard to come back.
Speaker 2: I think it's really hard when you obviously have to
Speaker 2: kill your one of your leads.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, two.
Speaker 2: Episodes, there's always gonna be there's always gonna it's gonna
Speaker 2: be balancing. I just don't currently I would have loved.
Speaker 2: I felt like last episode they did a great job
Speaker 2: of kind of upending my expectations where I expected that
Speaker 2: bleakness to immediately just be back and that kind of
Speaker 2: unrelenting depression, but instead we got to see how Jackson
Speaker 2: functions as a town, and that was that kind of
Speaker 2: brilliant world building that we got from episode three of
Speaker 2: season one with Bill and Frank, And I think like
Speaker 2: this to me just felt like it kind of stalled
Speaker 2: the flow of the show.
Speaker 3: I didn't really get a lot from it.
Speaker 2: I felt like things like the really big things like
Speaker 2: the pregnancy and Ellie revealing that she's immune, they felt
Speaker 2: kind of like they just happened at the end. So
Speaker 2: I just for me, this was the first one where
Speaker 2: I was kind of like, oh, yeah, it's fine, which
Speaker 2: is fine. Every show is allowed to have a fine episode.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's a shame because I think
Speaker 2: there's another.
Speaker 3: World where this episode, with.
Speaker 2: The final gay kind of the real acknowledgment of Ellie
Speaker 2: and Dina and that romance, like the kind of sex
Speaker 2: scene in the theater and everything, I feel like there's
Speaker 2: another world where that would have been one of those
Speaker 2: big beautiful moments and this kind of like this kind
Speaker 2: of beacon of hope or but I felt like it
Speaker 2: just kind of again, it just kind of happened, and
Speaker 2: we move on to the next thing.
Speaker 1: I think for there is a I think one of
Speaker 1: the things that I'm reacting to also is we get this,
Speaker 1: you know, this really nice scene of vulnerability between these
Speaker 1: two characters where Ellie is admitting her immunity and then
Speaker 1: Dina just spills out with you know, that she's pregnant
Speaker 1: and her relationship with Jesse and all these other things,
Speaker 1: and and I it doesn't quite ring true to me
Speaker 1: that Dina, who has been digging, digging, digging for information
Speaker 1: from Ellie this ride out here, wouldn't then be like,
Speaker 1: tell me more about this immunity thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they just drop it, and and so I feel
Speaker 6: like I feel like my first question would be, like,
Speaker 6: is that what happened in Salt Lake?
Speaker 2: Like you all know that they just randomly came back
Speaker 2: and then suddenly we're.
Speaker 1: There, you know, Like, yeah, I just think they just
Speaker 1: drop in and I get I think I understand from
Speaker 1: a production standpoint that, like, you don't want to retread
Speaker 1: on overground that the audience already knows. But it feels
Speaker 1: to me like a wasted opportunity to not find out
Speaker 1: more about what Ellie thinks about it, because like, we
Speaker 1: actually have that very little idea about what Ellie thinks
Speaker 1: about her immunity, if she has any survivors guilt about this,
Speaker 1: what she feels about the things to your point, Salt
Speaker 1: Lake and the things that she's been through because of
Speaker 1: this immunity, And it feels like a real miss And
Speaker 1: it feels like something would have happened in season one.
Speaker 1: They would have explored that emotional.
Speaker 3: Landscape, that moment.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I think a lot about another absolutely stunning episode from
Speaker 2: season one where they meet the brothers and they get
Speaker 2: to spend that time with them, and you have this
Speaker 2: moment where Joel is kind of breaking through and imagine
Speaker 2: a world where he could help other people. He's talking
Speaker 2: about motorbikes, he's you know, and obviously it gets thrown
Speaker 2: up in the air and it has this really tragic ending.
Speaker 2: But I feel like this Ellie and Dina deserve the
Speaker 2: moment like that They deserved the night making coffee like
Speaker 2: shitty coffee over a fire, talking about what happened in
Speaker 2: Salt Lake, talking about Dina's relationship with Jesse, talking about
Speaker 2: the fact Yea that her mum was homophobic, talking about
Speaker 2: the fact of Ellie being immune, what does that mean
Speaker 2: to her? Also, first question is that why you were
Speaker 2: with Joel, Like what is that?
Speaker 1: What? Like?
Speaker 3: We I want to know more about the fucking immunity.
Speaker 2: And also, let's be real, someone like who has lived
Speaker 2: in somewhere like Jackson, like Dina, I feel like there's
Speaker 2: a chance that the first thing she would have said is,
Speaker 2: oh my god, we have to go back and tell
Speaker 2: the council we.
Speaker 3: Could change everything.
Speaker 2: Why are you out here fighting like you could be
Speaker 2: the cure. I think that would be most people's response.
Speaker 2: I just feel like Ellie and Dina are little bit
Speaker 2: underwritten here. I think hopefully, you know, looking for silver linings.
Speaker 2: I hope that Game lovers who have been feeling like
Speaker 2: that's the show is not as focused on the game.
Speaker 2: I hope they love this. I hope it gives them
Speaker 2: that feeling again. I hope it gets them ramped up.
Speaker 2: I think you pulled up a great thing. I think
Speaker 2: it's to do with This episode struggles with the juxtaposition
Speaker 2: of being really true to the mechanics of the game
Speaker 2: and staying within the reality that the show has established
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: So I think that's that's what you touched on that
Speaker 3: was really great.
Speaker 1: And tomorrow's episode of X ray Vision re recapping the
Speaker 1: next batch of and Or episodes which are fantastic, and
Speaker 1: then we'll be gathering the Joy Council for another roundtable
Speaker 1: on Friday. For this episode, Thanks for listening, goodbye. X
Speaker 1: ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Knight
Speaker 1: and is a production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wack.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kauffman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 2: Heidi our discord moderator.