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Speaker 1: Also media, WHOA welcome back.

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Speaker 2: It's Bastards Pod behind Cam.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Robert. This is a podcast about bad people. It's

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Speaker 2: part two of our episodes about Littrill, the medicine that

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Speaker 2: invented the weird right wing fake medicine industrial complex that

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Speaker 2: is now helping to run our government. So you know,

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Speaker 2: we're all learning that story today and with me to

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Speaker 2: continue to be unhappy Miles Gray.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Hey, hey, how you doing. Thanks for having me back.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for coming back, Miles. I know we ended on

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Speaker 2: a cliffhanger last time because obviously you know they've been banned.

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Speaker 3: Now, Trill has been defeated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Littrill has been defeated forever. Well, no, what was

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Speaker 2: defeated was the Krebs is being able to produce or

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Speaker 2: sell Littrill. Right, Oh, unfortunately, somehow Littrill has returned in

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Speaker 2: part two. Oh god, So as I ended the last

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Speaker 2: episode saying, well, yeah, no, the FDA charged Crabs and

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Speaker 2: the John Beard Memorial Foundation banned them from selling the

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Speaker 2: trill or making it. But Crebs reached out to his

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Speaker 2: physician friends and they started a letter writing campaign. They

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Speaker 2: got a bunch of their patients writing in to be

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Speaker 2: like I need this medicine I needed. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: you can't know how much it's helped me and the judge.

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Speaker 2: You know, letter writing campaigns. This is still kind of

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Speaker 2: new as a concept that you would do this, especially

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Speaker 2: to a judge. And this judge suddenly receives hundreds of

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Speaker 2: letters like he's never gotten before and is like, oh God,

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Speaker 2: I guess i'd better I need to I guess I'd

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Speaker 2: better give them some way to keep getting this stuff. Right,

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Speaker 2: So he tells the Crebs as, look, you can sell

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Speaker 2: off the remaining stockpile that you have, but you got

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Speaker 2: to sell it to this this unrelated guy McNaughton, who

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Speaker 2: definitely isn't your friend and in business with you, right,

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Speaker 2: this Canadian gun runner. You got to sell your stuff

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Speaker 2: to him. He'll take care of it. He'll make sure

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Speaker 2: it gets to the right people. So that nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: one settlement marks kind of the end of the first era,

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Speaker 2: or it's the beginning of the end for the first

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Speaker 2: era of the Krebs family's anti cancer medications, right. And

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Speaker 2: you know, in the early days, the goal had been

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Speaker 2: we're going to make a scientific case for the new medicine.

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Speaker 2: We'll get acceptance from professional doctors, right and by kind

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Speaker 2: of the sixties, it's starting to become clear throughout the decade,

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Speaker 2: this isn't going to be the way forward in the future,

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Speaker 2: so people start, you know. Over in California, the Cancer

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Speaker 2: Advisory Council has begun to developed a serious interest in Latrill,

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Speaker 2: which they had first learned about after being sent questions

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Speaker 2: from journalists around the country about the alleged miracle cancer

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Speaker 2: cure that California doctors were using. One of Krebs's physician

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Speaker 2: customers had talked to a reporter and given them a

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Speaker 2: list of his patients, saying, Hey, just ask these people

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Speaker 2: how well the treatment worked, because boy, howdy, hippo laws

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Speaker 2: were did not exist back then.

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Speaker 3: Oh you need names and numbers.

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Speaker 2: He's just like, no, here's all my patients and what

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Speaker 2: they've been given.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, go on, just go right through them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, here's their home addresses. I don't give a shit.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah. Betty Boop was one of one

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Speaker 3: of my best patients. Act you should definitely call her.

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Speaker 2: So brief investigation by this, the California Cancer Advisory Council

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Speaker 2: made it clear to them that Ernest Krebbs Junior was

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Speaker 2: actively working to sell more and more physicians and more

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Speaker 2: states on this investigational drug. But even though this was

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Speaker 2: an investigational drug, no one seemed to be publishing any

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Speaker 2: research about it. Right, where are the investigations? It's just

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Speaker 2: being used on people and nobody's documenting shit. They also

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Speaker 2: become aware that he's selling literal overseas, even after the

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Speaker 2: injunction against selling it. But the FDA can't stop him

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Speaker 2: from doing stuff overseas, right, Like the fact that there's

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Speaker 2: like a British subsidiary selling stuff. They can't really get

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Speaker 2: involved with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a whole other thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 3: Look.

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Speaker 2: Now, during this period of time, doctor Krebs Junior fake

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Speaker 2: doctor Krebs Junior is writing letters to pharmaceutical entrepreneurs like

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Speaker 2: this quote, the field of cancer chemotherapy is a law

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Speaker 2: to itself. This jungle offers the greatest opportunity anywhere in

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Speaker 2: commerce at this moment, But there are snakes in every bush.

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Speaker 2: I believe it's best to push hard, sell, don't be

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Speaker 2: backward about disaffecting a few, and established the trill right

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Speaker 2: from the start is something precious that not even hospitals

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Speaker 2: get for nothing. So in his private writing, he's like, look,

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Speaker 2: we got to make this stuff expensive. You got to

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Speaker 2: charge out the ass for it, right, Like this is

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Speaker 2: precious stuff. We won't even sell it to the dying

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Speaker 2: for free, you know. Like that is the private doctor

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Speaker 2: Krebs Junior, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, right exactly. He's like, oh my god, we got

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Speaker 3: a winner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's also the fact that he says cancer chemotherapy

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Speaker 2: is alaw to himself. He is calling Latrill a kind

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Speaker 2: of chemo therapy, right, because that is chemo is new

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Speaker 2: and exciting at this point in like the late fifties,

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Speaker 2: early sixties, the idea that like, well, finally there's something

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Speaker 2: that works, right, So he is trying to tell people

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Speaker 2: this is the same thing, right, It's just you know,

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Speaker 2: a better guide to chemo that's less harsh on your body.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Like, but that's basically how they're arguing this works.

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Speaker 3: It's fucking way better chemo basically is what I call it.

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Speaker 2: It's super chemo pretty much. Yeah, yeah, yeahh So, from

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty to sixty two, the Cancer Advisory Council sent

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Speaker 2: ten doctors and five research scientists to the task of

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Speaker 2: investigating Latrill. This included evaluating more than one hundred case

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Speaker 2: studies by different Latrill advocates. Despite this mountain of so

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Speaker 2: called proof, the Council found no compelling evidence that Latrill

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Speaker 2: had helped anyone fight cancer. In fact, although Krebbs Junior

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Speaker 2: constantly claimed to have documented dozens of cured patients, he

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Speaker 2: would repeatedly fail to furnish this information when asked. So

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Speaker 2: the California Medical Association had to go digging, and I

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Speaker 2: want to quote from an article on the website patient Worthy. Here,

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Speaker 2: the Association pressed Krebs Junior for his clinical data and

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Speaker 2: proof of controlled studies. Krebbs Junior claimed he had performed

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Speaker 2: the studies but destroyed any related files. While conducting background

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Speaker 2: checks on his former patients, the CMA found that nineteen

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Speaker 2: of the forty four patients Krebs Junior had referred them

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Speaker 2: to had died within two years of receiving their treatment.

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Speaker 2: Some even seemed doing the exhibiting symptoms of cyanide poisoning.

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Speaker 2: The agency quickly condemned Littrill, as did the California State

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Speaker 2: Department of Public Health. So when they're finally able to

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Speaker 2: get some data where he's like, yeah, here's forty four

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Speaker 2: people who like came to my clinic. They're like, fucking

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Speaker 2: half these people are dead, and it looks like a

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Speaker 2: lot of them died from cyanide poisoning.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they were into that shit. I don't know, Maybe

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Speaker 3: to ask them what they were doing with that shit.

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Speaker 2: Have you considered maybe it was recreational cyanide poisoning, you know?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, people are fucking weird with that shit.

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Speaker 2: People love cyanide. Oh my god, you walk into a

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Speaker 2: preschool and give the kids a big violes cyanide, they'll

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Speaker 2: have a good time with it.

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Speaker 3: They love it. All the rock stars they're doing it.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's they knew it.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's doing cyanide.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the night.

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Speaker 2: So, after further work, including running tests on latrill and

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Speaker 2: a new synthetic litrill that Krebs Junior had invented, the

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Speaker 2: Council determined the substance had no value for treating, minimizing

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Speaker 2: the symptoms of, or outright curing cancer. This prompted the

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Speaker 2: state to regulate latrill for the first time. In nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty five, a new regulation was issued in California that

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Speaker 2: banned la trill and all substantially similar agents for being

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Speaker 2: sold as a cancer treatment. So Krebs Senior and his

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Speaker 2: boy took this in stride. They kept moving latrill on

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Speaker 2: the side, of course, but they had to pretend to

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Speaker 2: stay on the straight and narrow now that the man

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Speaker 2: was watching them. Even so, they repeatedly round up in court.

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Speaker 2: Krebs Junior was actually convicted in nineteen sixty five over

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Speaker 2: a contempt charge because he refused to stop selling latrill.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty six, he was convicted again for contempt

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Speaker 2: again because he was caught shipping the trill in violation

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Speaker 2: of the injunction. His story at this point becomes one

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Speaker 2: we've seen all too often. A rich con man breaks

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Speaker 2: the law repeatedly but only gets a slap on the

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Speaker 2: wrist each time. He was sentenced to a year in prison,

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Speaker 2: and then the sentence was immediately suspended. So he kept

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Speaker 2: doing it, and he brought in his brother, Byron, the osteopath,

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Speaker 2: to help sell and market the stuff. In nineteen seventy four,

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Speaker 2: Byron and Krebs Junior are both charged and both pled

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Speaker 2: guilty to violating the Californian law. Yet again, they were

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Speaker 2: given six month suspended sentences. The only one who actually

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Speaker 2: suffered a real penalty was Byron who had an actual

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Speaker 2: osteopath's license and had it revoked for incompetence.

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Speaker 3: It was the only one who saw consequences was Byron

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Speaker 3: because they thought he was black when they saw that name.

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Speaker 2: He was a doctor.

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Speaker 3: At least he was white. It's crazy just not dealing

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Speaker 3: with these people's fucking.

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Speaker 2: Crimes because they're always the case people. Guy run the

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Speaker 2: country right now, so yeah, I just let him get

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Speaker 2: away with it forever.

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Speaker 3: It's like a little fucking snowball and now we have

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Speaker 3: shit mountain that we're snowboarding down.

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Speaker 2: They're just selling cyanide as a cancer cure. It's not

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Speaker 2: like they're selling I don't know, cocaine, you know, or

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Speaker 2: heroin or marijuana.

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Speaker 4: God forbid, hold on, I'm not selling cyanide. Their bodies

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Speaker 4: are turning down. That's what their bodies are choosing to

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Speaker 4: do with it. Okay, some of the people, it doesn't.

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Speaker 4: It cures them.

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Speaker 2: It's not like they shoplifted, right, you know. They're just

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Speaker 2: poisoning people with cyanide. What do you want me to say? Man,

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Speaker 2: it's not even called sin stuff. It's not even cyanid

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Speaker 2: quite yet until you eat it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So an unfair that you would say that. Oh

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Speaker 3: my god.

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Speaker 2: So seventy four, Byron loses his osteopath's license and the

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Speaker 2: quaquatraticle I found just noted that after this quote, Byron

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Speaker 2: died shortly thereafter, and I was like, what happened?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: I wanted to look into it, so I found a

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Speaker 2: slightly more detailed reference to Byron in a family obituary

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Speaker 2: when Krebs Junior died in nineteen sixty six. This's Iskrebs

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Speaker 2: Junior's fucking obituary was he died in sixty six, nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety six, oh ninety six. Yeah, Byron Krebs died in

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four, And the line in the obituary just reads,

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Speaker 2: Byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion. I really there's

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Speaker 2: there's there's more story there than we have and.

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Speaker 3: I wow, did he what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Wow?

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Speaker 2: My assumption is that he was trying to find another

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Speaker 2: hack cancer remedy that, like you know, would get around

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Speaker 2: the California law, and it just blew up in his face,

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Speaker 2: very literally, because none of the Krebs family are good scientists.

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Speaker 4: You think he was using like nitroglycerin or something, maybe

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Speaker 4: dynamite kars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if mustard, gas, cris cancer, dynamite, mud, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean radiation, the atomic bomb.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying all the bombs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, these are just bomb ask cures that I'm working on.

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Speaker 2: You ever try vaping hexagen? It it fixes you right

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Speaker 2: the fuck up?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, man, what the fuck died in a laboratory.

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Speaker 2: I just give me the explosion, not fire explosion.

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Speaker 3: Can you just give me the sentence before that? Just

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Speaker 3: like the flow of this sentence.

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Speaker 2: Oh God, I guess I can pull up my sources one.

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Speaker 3: Sec just because I think that's just the funniest line

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Speaker 3: in an ob It's like, yeah, brother, anyway.

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Speaker 2: I'm pulling up my my source for the obituary.

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Speaker 3: That This is how you guys know this shit is thorough. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: just off the cuff. I'm having to inconvenience Robert.

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Speaker 2: He's got two obituaries. One is like the news obituary

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Speaker 2: that talks about, you know, the real stuff that he

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Speaker 2: did is the family one. So yeah, okay. Ertz Senior

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Speaker 2: died in nineteen seventy at age ninety three. Mister Krebs

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Speaker 2: was convicted in seventy three of practicing medicine without a

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Speaker 2: license as well as falsely representing Latrill as a cancer

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Speaker 2: cure and dispensing it. He and his brother, a physician

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Speaker 2: who has found guilty of prescribing the substance, were fined.

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Speaker 2: Byron Krebs died in a laboratory explosion in nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 3: I love the way that shit reads it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very funny. So With Byron Krebs gone and

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Speaker 2: Creb's senior in his nineties, McNaughton took an increasingly active

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Speaker 2: role in selling Latrill. After failing to get respected cancer

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Speaker 2: charities to support Latrill's studies, he managed to help convince

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Speaker 2: The American Weekly, a prominent magazine, to publish two puff

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Speaker 2: articles about Latrill next per quack Watch. They were followed

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Speaker 2: shortly by a paperback book from which they had been

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Speaker 2: taken Latrill Control for Cancer the most Important medical News

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Speaker 2: of our time. The cover promised the first major breakthrough

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Speaker 2: in the cancer mystery. The day is near when no

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Speaker 2: one will need to die from cancer. Latrill, the revolutionary

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Speaker 2: new anti cancer drug, will be to cancer what insulin

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Speaker 2: is to diabetes, written by Clin D. Kittler, who earlier

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Speaker 2: had acclaimed to Greb's junior as Nobel prize material. The

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Speaker 2: book presented a highly dramatic version of Latrill's discovery and

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Speaker 2: a most optimistic rendering of krebs sponsored clinical experience with

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Speaker 2: the drug. To use the term cures for cancer, Kitler

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Speaker 2: considered inaccurate, but he added, the idea of a cancer control,

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Speaker 2: on the other hand, is perfectly plausible in the minds

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Speaker 2: of an increasing number of leading scientists. The best control

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Speaker 2: now available is La Trill, the book concluded by quoting

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Speaker 2: Andrew McNaughton to the same effect. McNaughton contributed also to

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Speaker 2: the books forward, to which he appended his foundation's Montreal address.

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Speaker 2: Letters of inquiry sent to the foundation received replies saying

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Speaker 2: the Trill might soon be available. So again, he's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, they got in trouble for calling this a cure.

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Speaker 2: It's not a cure. It's a control. It's like a

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Speaker 2: brake pedal for cancer. You know that book. We put

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Speaker 2: a governor on this bad boy exactly.

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Speaker 3: Man, just fucking unless you get to unless you're at

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Speaker 3: a racetrack, it knows with the GPS, then the chip

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Speaker 3: turns off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so funny. Now, this would not be the

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Speaker 2: first time a fake miracle cure had been pushed by

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Speaker 2: a book, but previously it was mostly stuff like dianetics, right,

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Speaker 2: or the power of positive thinking, where you're you're making claims,

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Speaker 2: sometimes even medical ones about like we cure the psychiatric

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Speaker 2: illness or whatever, but it's usually like the thing you're

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Speaker 2: saying is like and it's a way of meditating or

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Speaker 2: a way of thinking, or a rule of the universe.

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Speaker 2: You don't know. This is one of the first times,

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Speaker 2: if not the first time, that there's like a major

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Speaker 2: book published to get people to take a fake drug

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Speaker 2: as a cancer cure in like the modern era, right. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, the book itself did not sell as well

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Speaker 2: as the publisher had hopes, but it sells pretty well.

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Speaker 2: It's just that they buy like five times as many

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Speaker 2: copies as it possibly could have sold. So it's it like,

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Speaker 2: fucks up the publisher, But a lot of people do

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Speaker 2: get copies of this book. It is influential, right, and

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Speaker 2: it sells well enough to bring thousands of new customers

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Speaker 2: to the fantasy world being crafted by the crebs is

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Speaker 2: in McNaughton. As Latrill spread around the world, it was

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Speaker 2: banned first in California, then Canada and several other US states.

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Speaker 2: McNaughton lost a major lawsuit in the mid sixties, and

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Speaker 2: Ernst Krebb's senior was permanently enjoined against ever selling another

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Speaker 2: dose of Latrill, which he continued prescribing for the remainder

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Speaker 2: of his life, which ended in nineteen seventy when he

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Speaker 2: fell down the stairs. Either ninety three or ninety four.

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Speaker 2: I've seen both. I'm not going to exploding. He's too old, right, Yeah,

296
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Speaker 2: the lab explosion threw him down the stairs. Fuck now.

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Speaker 2: Ernst Krebs Junior, the fake Doctor, was the only Krebs

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Speaker 2: left alive or in the business now, which was largely

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Speaker 2: being operated by Andrew McNaughton, as he had both the

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Speaker 2: corporate structure and money for the legal muscle necessary to

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Speaker 2: keep fighting the fight. Whenever one of his corporate entities

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Speaker 2: would attract too much heat, McNaughton would create a new

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00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,479
Speaker 2: one and continue manufacturing and shipping lttrill from eventually Saucelito.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy, he again begged the FDA to approve

305
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Speaker 2: Litrill for experimental use on humans. To do this, he

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Speaker 2: had to craft an investigational New Drug Application, or ID,

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00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,280
Speaker 2: which is if you think you've got a medicine that

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Speaker 2: you need to test. You make that and you send

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Speaker 2: it to the government and they're like, yeah, this seems

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Speaker 2: like it's probably worth testing on people and safe to

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Speaker 2: test on people or something else. Let's try it right now.

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Speaker 2: This is not a good application and it's never going

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Speaker 2: to get accepted. But the application, which makes the trill

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Speaker 2: sound wonderful starts getting shared around it like you know,

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Speaker 2: today it'd be on fucking Twitter, but like it's just

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00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 2: being passed. Copies of it are being passed around to

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Speaker 2: descrolling network of latrill activists that have started forming in

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Speaker 2: the sixties, and they've started seeing themselves as activists because

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Speaker 2: they're convinced this is going to save them or that

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Speaker 2: it did save them. And there's a lot of these

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Speaker 2: people are folks who had a cancer and they took

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Speaker 2: latrill and a traditional therapy and they got better, but

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Speaker 2: they keep taking the trill because they're convinced it'll keep

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Speaker 2: them from getting the cancer again. And it's again there's

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Speaker 2: this like trauma of the cancer was so scary. Maybe

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Speaker 2: if I just never stopped taking this stuff, I won't

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Speaker 2: get it again, right, Because that's one of the things

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Speaker 2: that the krebs is claiming is that, actually, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: can just take it for maintenance and it'll keep your

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Speaker 2: body inhospitable to cancer. You know, fuck it, why not,

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Speaker 2: right Jesus. So the central mover of this kind of

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Speaker 2: shift from you've got some patients and whatnot who are

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Speaker 2: like angry and they got convinced to do a letter

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Speaker 2: writing campaign to there is like a network of activists

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Speaker 2: who are working together in organizations in order to fight

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Speaker 2: for their right to this fake medicine. The person who

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Speaker 2: causes that shift most directly is a teacher from southern

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Speaker 2: California named Cecile Hoffman. She had been diagnosed with breast

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Speaker 2: cancer in nineteen fifty nine and endured a horrible misectomy

340
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Speaker 2: to deal with it. Right, this is fifty nine medicine

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00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,200
Speaker 2: for miss sectomy. Number one is just a nightmarish procedure.

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Speaker 2: It's extremely painful. She doesn't heal well, and number two,

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Speaker 2: they don't do a good job at it, so her

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Speaker 2: cancer doesn't go away entirely, and a couple of years

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Speaker 2: later she finds out that it's spread. And again, this

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Speaker 2: is the stage of it where you do have to

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Speaker 2: have a lot of sympathy for these people. She's being

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Speaker 2: told well, we need to do chemo, right, we need

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Speaker 2: to do another medical intervention. She's had one and it

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Speaker 2: was horrible, and then Latrill activists, Well, to be more accurate,

351
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Speaker 2: she starts doing her own research and she finds the

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Speaker 2: book I just talked about and she reads McNaughton's forward

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Speaker 2: and she's like, well, fuck this, I'm going to take

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Speaker 2: Littrill right, Like, that's clearly the best option. And you

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Speaker 2: have to have again some sympathy for this woman, but

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Speaker 2: her impact is going to be disastrous. So at first

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Speaker 2: she's she's she lives in like La, She's like or

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Speaker 2: she lives in San Diego. I think she starts traveling

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00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 2: to Montreal to get because it's she can't get in California,

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00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 2: and she takes it in Montreal for a while, but

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Speaker 2: then Littrill gets restricted in Montreal, and so she becomes

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00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 2: the very first person to take to Mexico to get

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Speaker 2: her Litrill fixed. Right. She is patient zero from Mexican Latrill,

364
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Speaker 2: and she finds a doctor down in Tijuana named Ernesto

365
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,760
Speaker 2: Contreras who is happy to prescribe this stuff despite not

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Speaker 2: knowing the first thing about it. And Contreras's is important

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00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 2: because he is one of our very first He's very

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Speaker 2: good at marketing himself. He's at this point just a

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Speaker 2: small family doctor, but he's going to immediately latch onto

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Speaker 2: this grift and he's one of the first vibes only mds.

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00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 2: He calls himself like holistic doctor and shit. But he's

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Speaker 2: basically like, you know, what's most important A lot of

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Speaker 2: the time, it's not even the medicine. You know, I

374
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 2: don't always know why the medicine works. It's about how

375
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,240
Speaker 2: good you make him feel. It's about chilling him out.

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Speaker 2: It's about keeping people positive, right, you know that that'll

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00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 2: do a lot, right, That does most of what we

378
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 2: need to do. So they just come in and I

379
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 2: just tell him whatever they want to hear. They say

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00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,960
Speaker 2: they think they need latreill Ill tell him, yeah, I'll

381
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,400
Speaker 2: definitely gear ya here have it, you know. And he's

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00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 2: like really a nice guy, not like I mean a

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Speaker 2: nice guy in the sense that like people like him,

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Speaker 2: not that he's a good person. Those things a related.

385
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 2: He's a bad person, but he's extremely charming. People really

386
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 2: really feel comforty. He's got great bedside manner, right, and

387
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 2: he'll just say yes to whatever insane thing people want.

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00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 2: Prescribed as long as they're paying. In nineteen sixty three,

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00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 2: Cecile founds the International Association of Cancer Victims and Friends,

390
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 2: and once she met doctor Contrera, she starts telling all

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00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,879
Speaker 2: of her friends and fellow sufferers in this international association

392
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: about him, and she's like, look, if you're sick, this

393
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,879
Speaker 2: is where this is the only good doctor. This is

394
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 2: the guy who knows it a cure cancer. You could

395
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: trust him. He'll get you your meds. He doesn't care

396
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 2: about you know these little things like has Latrell helped anybody?

397
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 2: Is it just cyanide? Right, come to his Tijuana clinic

398
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,440
Speaker 2: and he will cure you.

399
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:29,720
Speaker 1: Right.

400
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: So she starts this trend both of organizing these patients

401
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 2: together and of being like, that's all head to Tijuana

402
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,239
Speaker 2: for good medicine. In other words, cecil Hoffman is an

403
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,840
Speaker 2: r figure in the Annals of Patient Alternative Medicine Advocates.

404
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 3: Right, she is.

405
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 2: She is the precursor to uh, what's her name, Jenny McCarthy, Right,

406
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,880
Speaker 2: like very much what we're talking about with Cecile.

407
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 3: So she's going to host a dating show called Hello.

408
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: Bad news about that. But before we get to that,

409
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 2: let me read a quote about her from doctor Ben Wilson,

410
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 2: persuaded that Litrill had saved her life. Angry that this

411
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 2: treatment was not legally available in the United States, Missus

412
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: Hoffman established her International Association through print meetings and personal evangelism.

413
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 2: The association castigated out of date, outmoded so called orthodox

414
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 2: treatment and vigorously espoused what missus Hoffman termed non toxic

415
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: beneficial therapies, especially Latrill. Krebs Junior contrerasts and in time

416
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 2: Dean Burke addressed the International Association assemblies. The organization provided

417
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 2: cancer sufferers with information on how to get to Tijuana.

418
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 2: So it's not yet they're not yet smuggling people, but

419
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: they're telling them here's how to get here, here's what

420
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 2: to do, and they're spreading this around by like word

421
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,119
Speaker 2: of mouth. So by the end of the sixties, Krebs Junior, McNaughton,

422
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 2: doctor Contreras, and Cecil have set up Latrill for a

423
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: booming nineteen seventies. Right, all the ingredients are there, right,

424
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: Like we've we've figured out how to market and sell

425
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 2: this stuff. We're starting to organize patients to provide you know,

426
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: pressure to judges and eventual to legislators. And we've got

427
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 2: these we've got this like word of mouth networks set

428
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: up with like an advocate organization, and we've got a

429
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: clinic in Mexico that we're sending them to right everything

430
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 2: everything you need for this to really explode in the seventies. Tragically,

431
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 2: Cecil will not live to see that decade. Despite more

432
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 2: than six years of literal treatment. She died in nineteen

433
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,959
Speaker 2: sixty nine of metastatic cancer because instead of treating her cancer,

434
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: she did nothing. And that's what happens with that, right,

435
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 2: But she took latrill, Yeah, and it killed her. She

436
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: dies a horrible death. No one in her organization seems

437
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: to have questioned what this might mean about the validity

438
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 2: of literrill as a medicine. Yeah, you know what else,

439
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: No one questions I've even questioned it. You certainly shouldn't.

440
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: What the products and services that support this podcast, Oh,

441
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:58,199
Speaker 2: love them, don't question them, don't ask shit. Oh my gosh,

442
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: we're back and we're talking lid trill so Hoffman, who

443
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 2: is dead now. But you know, as the seventies starts,

444
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: her chief innovation will outlive her. And the primary thing

445
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: that she does that's relevant to us today is that she's,

446
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, the first person who

447
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: brings the catchphrase freedom of choice to the debate about

448
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 2: what kind of stuff you should be able to sell

449
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: as medicine. Oh wow, right, she is the one who

450
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: is like, it's a freedom a choice thing, you know,

451
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 2: as to what medicine is. You know, who's to say

452
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 2: what's not medicine? It's my I have a right as

453
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: an American, a First Amendment right to say what medicine is.

454
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: My medicine is right. Actually, now, her organization works really

455
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: well alongside a slightly older group. She's not her group.

456
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 2: This foundation is not the first group that starts pushing this.

457
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,719
Speaker 2: And well they hadn't used that exact language. They had

458
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 2: been doing a version of like it's a freedom thing, right.

459
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 2: And this older organization is the National Health Foundation, which

460
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 2: had been established, I think in nineteen fifty five by

461
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: a different con man who was marketing fake health devices

462
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 2: that kept getting banned, and the foundation. Again, these guys

463
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: are early advocates for what they're saying. We can't sell

464
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 2: just any old crap fuck that, you know, and they

465
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 2: reach out aggressively to every new little organization that bumps

466
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: up in the seventies focused on unorthodox medical and health treatments,

467
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 2: like if you think meditation has taught you Venusian health magic,

468
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 2: or if you think the trill is a wonder drug.

469
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 2: They will fight for your right, you know, like your

470
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: sacred right to die unnecessarily taking nonsense.

471
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: Who's to fucking tell you, yes, science is scientists.

472
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: It's so frustrating because all of these arguments. If you

473
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: replace fake medicine with real illegal drugs, I'm like, yeah,

474
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 2: legalize it. It's everyone's choice. If you want to fucking

475
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 2: get addicted to heroin, that's your that's your choice, I believe.

476
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: But you know what heroin is. You should be informed

477
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: of it, right, be told that, Like, yeah, it kills

478
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 2: people all the time. It's super dangerous. What gets horribly addict.

479
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: First one is gonna be a fucking wild one.

480
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: You're gonna feel great, and then it's going to destroy

481
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: your life.

482
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: Right then you're gonna chase the dragon as it will.

483
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 2: I'm okay with like cocaine market, it is as like

484
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 2: this is horrible for you and will make you a

485
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 2: worse person, right, Like, you could just be honest about

486
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: all of this stuff. Let people you will fart a

487
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: pot pot. You're not nearly as interesting as you think

488
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 2: you are.

489
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 3: But go ahead, asshole, share bucket.

490
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: This is not keying you on the secrets of the universe, actually,

491
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: and it may not even be relaxing you as much

492
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: as you think it is.

493
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: Your ideas aren't getting better when you're writing a song.

494
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: These are. It's fine, well, with the exception of exactly

495
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: one and a half beers. You know, maybe a little

496
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 2: bit of acid there you go, some mushrooms.

497
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: These are good as.

498
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: Some adderall that you grind up and shoot, okay, whatever.

499
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 2: So in nineteen seventy, Ernst Krebst Junior would usher in

500
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: his last major innovation for Littrill. And this is the

501
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: second Latroll era. So the first era is everybody loves chemicals, right.

502
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: Latrill is basically chemo. It's another weird chemical that we

503
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: found that'll save you.

504
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 3: Right.

505
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: By nineteen seventy, people are kind of over weird chemicals.

506
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: They're starting to be like, what if I want to

507
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: be natural and healthy and you know, diet and exercise

508
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. Right, And so he reads the

509
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: tea leaves and he's like, Okay, people don't want to

510
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: random chemical to shoot in themselves or to take his pills.

511
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 2: This is like the health era, right, So hmm, let

512
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: me think people have started to learn that chemo's pretty

513
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: unpleasant to experience, even though it works. What if I'm

514
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: like chemo. The reason it's unpleasant is it's unnatural, right,

515
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: And what I've got. What I've got is a natural

516
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: drug for a new and health conscious era. See Latrill.

517
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't work like chemotherapy. It's not a chemical. It's

518
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 2: a vitamin. And cancer is obviously caused by a vitamin deficiency.

519
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: And I found the new vitamin that no one knew

520
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 2: about before that you're all deficient in. And that's what

521
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: latrill is. I want to quote now from an article

522
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: in the Cancer Journal for Clinicians. In nineteen seventy, Ernst

523
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: Cribbs Junior announced that he had discovered the ideology of

524
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 2: all forms of cancer. Cancer, he concluded, was a vitamin

525
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: deficiency disease everybit as much as it is pernicious. According

526
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: to Krebs Junior, the missing vitamin and cancer was littrill,

527
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 2: which he called a vitamin B seventeen. Oh my god,

528
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: it's B seventeen, You know B twelve? This is five

529
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: numbers better than B twelve.

530
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: Dude, he waitsill I dropped B fifty two. Bro, Yeah,

531
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: that's just gonna fucking crack your mind fucking nuts.

532
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 2: So this is not a new scheme for his family,

533
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 2: like faking that you've you've got a fucking new vitamin.

534
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: If you remember, in the last episode, he and his

535
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: dad got in trouble for selling pangamic acid, which also

536
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: came from the kernels of sholled apricot seeds. They had

537
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: a real apricot thing, and in nineteen forty five, Krebs

538
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: Senior had claimed this is a systemic detoxicant which can

539
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: cure all allergies. So both first off, he's like a

540
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: pioneer and saying that like this is there's toxins. We

541
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: got a detox yet gets them out, gets them right out. Yeah,

542
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 2: and he's like, also it cure's arthritis. For some reason,

543
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: he marketed it as allergenase and described it as vitamin

544
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: B fifteen, even though again it's not a vitamin. So

545
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: his son is like, yeah, the trill, it's really vitamin

546
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: B seventeen. And you can't ban the sale of vitamins, right.

547
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: M you can't.

548
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: Now, the surprising number of kooks and cranks who liked

549
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: this stuff had been isolated before, but in the seventies

550
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 2: they also increasingly come together and at you know, Cecil

551
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 2: Hoffman was a big part of that, and they started

552
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 2: bombarding lawmakers with letters and professional grade lobbying campaigns. The

553
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: Federation's journal compared its members to Abraham Lincoln, reminding them

554
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: that he too fought for liberty against great auts. Wow,

555
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: you know, you know slavery. That's the same as me

556
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 2: not being able to poison you with this.

557
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: Shit, exactly. Dude, I don't want you to tell me

558
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: I can't cyanide myself.

559
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And you won't have the right to take cyanide.

560
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 2: What right do you have?

561
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: None?

562
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: None, that's my opinion.

563
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: What did what did our forefathers fight for?

564
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, definitely Cyanidely Now, at this stage, the unorthodox

565
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 2: medical movement or the bullshit medical movement was not right

566
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: or left wing right. A good number of people who

567
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: are drawn into this are drawn in again for an

568
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: understandable reason. It's no longer we just don't know much

569
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: about medicine, and there's no real way to treat what

570
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: I have, So I'm desperate. But a lot of people

571
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 2: are now like, well, the government says this stuff is bad,

572
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: and the government says, listen to this guy about what's good.

573
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: But the government also said that, like, you know, they

574
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 2: didn't murder Fred Hampton, or that they didn't weren't tracking

575
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Junior. And we know that's a lie.

576
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: And the government said that like the Vietnam War was

577
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: absolutely necessary. We know that's a lie. Yeah yeah whatever, right,

578
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: Like there's this understanding said.

579
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 3: We beat the Nazis too, yeah yeah.

580
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: Uh So there's this degree of like people are really

581
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: starting to realize, oh, the American government can't be trusted,

582
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: which is true, but they're unfortunately extrapolating fucking I can't

583
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: trust LBJ about Vietnam to like, why would I trust

584
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: a doctor about what cure's cancer, you know, except for

585
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: this doctor who's not a doctor.

586
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 3: Yep. That's that's how it all starts. You just need

587
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: one thing to kind of be true and then just

588
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: like and I'll apply it to everything.

589
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: And unfortunately there's not like a One of the things

590
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: I hate about this story is there's not a lot

591
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: of there's not a simple lesson here. I would love

592
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: it if the simple lesson was when somebody does something

593
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: like this, you got to come after them like the

594
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 2: hammer of God and really just nuke the person for

595
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: trying to like feed people fake medicine. But one important

596
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: part of the story here is that the aggression with

597
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: which the government goes after these guys, not personally because

598
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: they're never really personally going after these guys, but the

599
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: aggression with which they go after people smuggling littrill and

600
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: possession latrill is part of what fuels this backlash where

601
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: and it all get swept up and like, well, the

602
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: anti war movement, all this other anti government stuff that's

603
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: going on right now, and so it's getting in and

604
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: increasingly it's got inroads to like both kind of sides

605
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: of the political spectrum who don't trust the government and

606
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: who see this crack down the or like well, they

607
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 2: must be hiding something, right. California really really doubles down

608
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: on arresting and intercepting people who are bringing in latrill shipments.

609
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: One woman named Mary Welchell had helped establish what she

610
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: called the underground rail Road of Latrill, smuggling cancer patients

611
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: from the US to doctor Contreras's clinic, which had gone

612
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: from he used to run it out of his home,

613
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: and now it's a whole compound with like bungalows for

614
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: long term patient care. So Welchel starts smuggling people there

615
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: and gets caught and convicted in nineteen seventy one of

616
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: delivering an a legal compound for treating cancer as and

617
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: fined and basically you won't have to go to jail

618
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: if you don't take anyone in Mexico for two years,

619
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: although her conviction is set aside. So it's this mix

620
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: of they're publicly going after these people who seem sympathetic,

621
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: but then they're not actually punishing them. I think it's

622
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: that poisonous hybrid where it's like they both look like

623
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: the evil nineteen eighty four government, but also there's no

624
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: real incentive to stop for the people making money, because

625
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: you know you're not going to really get in trouble.

626
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 3: The underground railroad. I love that. I love that.

627
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: I'm like the Harriet Tubman of convincing children to take cyanide.

628
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 3: I'm the Harriet bathtub Gin of poisoning herself.

629
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: I wish if scientists ever invent the only ethical use

630
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: for a time machine would be to go back in

631
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 2: time to people like Harriet Tubman and tell them all

632
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: the fucked up ways their name is used in the future,

633
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: and just like, all right, Martin Luther King, here's a

634
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 2: list of like quotes people have printed out pretending to

635
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: agree with you. Yeah, and here's a hammer. Do you

636
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: just want to like take take care of business?

637
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: You want to come with me in a time machine, man,

638
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: we can fox.

639
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: Some people up like you're owed, oh Man. Through the

640
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: early seventies, McNaughton continued to act as the godfather of Littrill,

641
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: but then a Canadian judge convicted him of fraud, not

642
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 2: for the medical stuff, but for manipulating stock prices. So

643
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 2: he has to flee Canada, and he's like, well, the

644
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: US is obviously no safer for me, So he starts

645
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: living in Tijuana and reorganizes his business around both advertising

646
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: Mexican latroll clinics, and he's cut in on that business

647
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 2: and overseeing the smuggling of littrill into the US from Mexico.

648
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 2: He's like a reverse drug coyote. So the second period

649
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: of Litrill history is generally considered to have ended sometime

650
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: in the early nineteen seventies, right as the need to

651
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: justify a latrial scientifically faded away entirely. You know, they

652
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: start with like it's like chemo, and then they're like,

653
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: it's a vitamin, and they keep saying it's a vitamin

654
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 2: like up until kind of the end of latrill as

655
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: a medicine. But that becomes less and less meaningful. That

656
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: justification for how it works because the state starts arresting

657
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: doctors in the early seventies. They're arresting people, they're charging them,

658
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: and this massively increases the sense of victimhood that creates

659
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: this self reinforcing subculture that is now not into latrill

660
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: because it's a cure entirely, but because they're ethically and

661
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: ideologically invested in it. Right, the political ideology they've built

662
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: this has to work, so you don't have to convince

663
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: any state or medical organization to back the drug. Now

664
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: people are no longer waiting for evidence. They are ideologically

665
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 2: convinced that this stuff is necessary and that the government

666
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 2: is evil, right, and so they will go to war

667
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: on behalf of the people selling this poison. Now, that's

668
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: the third era of literal and a major catalyst for

669
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 2: the birth of this era is doctor John A. Richardson,

670
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: a right wing crank and medical doctor who was arrested

671
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two in Albany, California for violating the

672
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: state anti quackery law. For reasons beyond me, authorities film

673
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: the arrest and it looks bad because it just looks

674
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: like armed thugs taking a doctor into custody at gunpoint,

675
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: which is like what it is. But he's a bad doctor.

676
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: It's like, here's like, no, that's just going to make

677
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 2: a look like a victim, you dipshits.

678
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, why'd you point the gun at his head Richardson?

679
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: Because they're cops. Richardson was convicted of gross negligence and incompetence,

680
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: and he was in fact guilty, But he looks like

681
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: Jesus to the kind of patient advocates who just got

682
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: in the hang of organizing. Now here's where things really

683
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: get dark. Because I said he was a right wing crank.

684
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 2: I wasn't just insulting him. This is critical to the

685
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: story because doctor Richardson is a member of a political

686
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: organization that we have covered on this show, that John

687
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: Birch Society.

688
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: Oh and that.

689
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: John Birch Society gets in board at this point.

690
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 3: Fuck me, Wow, that's wild.

691
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: They are crucial to the third stage of littrill. Now.

692
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: I want to quote now from an article called Littrill

693
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: Lesson in Cancer Quackery for the Cancer Journal for Clinicians. Quote.

694
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: The phenomenon was largely confined to the West Coast in

695
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: Mexico until the nineteen seventy two full scale entry into

696
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: the controversy of John Birch. Members in support of Birch

697
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: activist doctor John Richardson. Using the arguments and sophisticated political

698
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: machinery of the far right, and aided by the manpower

699
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: of a large group of Americans caught up in a

700
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: new religion of extreme food fatism, the promotion rapidly swept

701
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: across the country. And yeah, it's bleak. I'm gonna like

702
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: this sounds very similar to what's going on now, because

703
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: this is where.

704
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 3: It starts, right, Yeah, exactly.

705
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: While doctor Richardson gets the ball rolling on bringing in

706
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: the far right, the actual hard work of tying this

707
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: to conservatism, to this fascist right wing cause was done

708
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: by a more influential Bircher, a man named Robert W.

709
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 2: Bradford from Los Altos, California. He and a handful of

710
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 2: far right activists founded a new organization to push Littrill

711
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: and defend doctor Richardson for doctor Williams's article. Bradford was

712
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: a nuclear technician on the Stanford University staff working on

713
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: building a linear accelerator for research in subatomic physics. Poised

714
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: articulate skillded organization, Bradford, aided by equally dedicated associates, quickly

715
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: made a success of the new Committee for Freedom of

716
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: Choice and Cancer Therapy. In nineteen seventy five, he gave

717
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 2: up his Stanford job to devote full time to the

718
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: Committee and to lay trill ties with the nation's already

719
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: existing conservative network. Surely helped immensely in the speed with

720
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: which the Committee established local branches. By nineteen seventy seven,

721
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: Bradford claimed five hundred chapters with some thirty five thousand members.

722
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: And of course it's an engineer. Great engineers are some

723
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: of the easiest, Like they're overrepresented as like terrorists extremist groups,

724
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: because you get very good at something very hard, and

725
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: you also convince yourself that everything works the way that

726
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: does right, and like yeah, and then yeah.

727
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 3: Then that makes you even more susceptible to like some

728
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 3: kind of cult type thing where you're like well, I

729
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: know fucking better than everybody else.

730
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,479
Speaker 2: And he's also just genuinely a skilled organizer, right, going

731
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: in the space of a few years to five hundred

732
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: chapters with thirty five thousand members. That's no mean feat.

733
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 2: That's someone who is very intelligent at what they're doing.

734
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: Right.

735
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 2: Alas, and there you have it, folks, that is where

736
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: this all began. Baby. We are now staring at the

737
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 2: very start of the road that led us to RFK

738
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: Junior killing the concept of medical research in the United States.

739
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 3: Right.

740
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: Obviously there were some precursors we can talk about early

741
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: and we have on the show, the early anti VACS movement.

742
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: But in terms of this is where the that there's

743
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 2: a direct line between this political movement and the one

744
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 2: and trump Ism, right, a very direct line of descent

745
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: that you know, is more broken up the further back

746
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 2: you go. And here is where it's just a straight

747
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: thing line. Right, This is the start of it, you know,

748
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: this is the inciting incident that led in twenty twenty

749
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: to people marching around with guns threatening doctors and nurses

750
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 2: for begging them to take safety precautions during a plague. Right,

751
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: we're at ground zero here, Yeah, And you know what

752
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: I love about ground zero? The view, the view, Oh

753
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: my god, the great, perfect view of ground zero.

754
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: You know.

755
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 2: But anyway, here's ads and we're we're somewhere who knows

756
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: where we are.

757
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: We're back.

758
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 2: We're back, that's for sure. Not that we ever left.

759
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 2: We didn't. I just told you another story that would

760
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 2: have blown the audience's minds.

761
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't do that.

762
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: You're not going to hear it. You're never going to

763
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 2: hear it, you know.

764
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I'll give you guys a little hint. It

765
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 3: was a cure for cancer. It was a cure for

766
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: mindswer is blown.

767
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 2: And look, if you venmo me, let's say a couple

768
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: of million dollars, you know, just working in the last

769
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 2: I don't want a couple of million dollars for myself.

770
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: Like Miles and I put a lot of money into

771
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: our lab. You know, we're just trying to We got

772
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 2: to be whole, you know, can we be whole?

773
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah? I got to get back to zero or there. No,

774
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: this deal isn't good for me. Yeah.

775
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 2: So, the John Birch Society's entrance to the literal movement

776
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: does a couple of things. First off, it makes medical

777
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: freedom a core conservative voting issue, and it connects that

778
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 2: issue and the people advocating it to the Republican political establishment,

779
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: who are going to be hugely helpful in pushing for

780
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: exceptions over things like supplements in the years to come.

781
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: This is where you get all these laws about like, oh, no,

782
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: you can't sell this as a cure, but you can

783
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: say maybe it helps with this disease. If you're not

784
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: saying it's a cure and it's a supplement, then we

785
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: can't regulate it. Right, all of Joe Rogan's business, you know,

786
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: Alex Jones. This is the groundwork for why all of

787
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: that is the case, right, because it becomes a thing

788
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: where like, well, if you're in an extremely conservative area

789
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: and you really want to like throw some bones to

790
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 2: the far right, just loosen the laws or and what

791
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: kind of shit they can put in their body and

792
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: call it a cure. Fuck it, you know.

793
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

794
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 2: Now, the other thing that John Birch Society does here

795
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: is they bring an expertise in what far right conspiracists

796
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: are best at, which is making people homicidally angry. While

797
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 2: the krub's strategy had been to convince patients and doctors

798
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: this stuff works and kind of brute force exceptions for

799
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: human experiments to do with run around on the drug

800
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: approval process while seeming to follow it. In this new

801
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 2: Bircher era, the focus was much more on making people angry.

802
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: Just blame the federal government for poisoning them and hiding

803
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: real medicine, and then you don't have to do anything else, right.

804
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: The movement around around the trill evolved from a few

805
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: patients in their families to a crusade of activists fighting

806
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 2: medical nineteen eighty four, right, like, we're literally this is

807
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: big brother that we're fighting by taking cyanide pills. Now,

808
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: increasingly these people started finding other people who'd been diagnosed

809
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: with various cancers and proactively being like, wait, you're about

810
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: to go in for quem no no, no, no no,

811
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: take latrill, take La trail.

812
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: Whoa, whoa, yeah, whoa? You know this is like chemo. No,

813
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 3: it's a vite. Well it's USU. Do just take it.

814
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,360
Speaker 2: It's a chemo vitamin supplement, you know.

815
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

816
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 2: Money flows to guys like Bradford, who again is increasingly

817
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: becoming like our verse coyote for families trying to smuggle

818
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: themselves into Mexico. Or smuggle literill out. In nineteen seventy seven,

819
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 2: he was finally tried alongside doctor Richardson and convicted of conspiracy. Now,

820
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: something else happened in nineteen seventy seven. On June eighth

821
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 2: of that year, an eleven year old girl named Elizabeth

822
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 2: Hanken of Attica, New York, got into her father's medicine cabinet. Now,

823
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 2: her dad had been diagnosed with cancer and he'd been

824
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 2: convinced to take Latrill. I don't know if he was

825
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: also taking real medicine, if this was the only thing

826
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,720
Speaker 2: he was doing, but he's got littrell in the house,

827
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: and Elizabeth, being an eleven month old, eats five tablets,

828
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: which is about two and a half grams of his medication.

829
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: And most people who take latrill orally just pass it.

830
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: Some people's bodies, for whatever reason, have more of that

831
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 2: enzyme that turns into cyanide, and I don't know why,

832
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: but Elizabeth is one of them. She goes into a

833
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: coma and she dies three days later due to cyanide

834
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: poisoning caused by the ingestion of a MA DLNN. Per

835
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 2: her coroner's report. Her father dies the next year because

836
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: this is not a treatment for anything. Not the first

837
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: kid to die from this stuff, not the last, but

838
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: one of the most well documented ones, right, And part

839
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: of it I said that, like, maybe she just said

840
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: more of this enzyme, and also maybe the latrill. Different

841
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: people are making latrill, and it's not at all consistent,

842
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 2: Like when the FDA is trying to test this, they

843
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 2: keep finding different formulations. So maybe it was just latrill

844
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: that was inherently more dangerous, right, we don't really know.

845
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 2: Earlier that same year, a seventeen year old girl in

846
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: Los Angeles drank three ampuels of latrill about ten point

847
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: five grams, and within ten minutes entered a coma due

848
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: to cyanide poisoning. She died a day later. Now, again,

849
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 2: these happened a month away from each other. These and

850
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: stories like them start percolating out to the medical press.

851
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: The regular press, however, is still often more interested in

852
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 2: reading testimonies of people who'd been miraculously cured. I found

853
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 2: a Time article that was written around this period that

854
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 2: was just titled debate over latrill and here's how again

855
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: great journalism. Here here's how this opens in a motel

856
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: room in Imperial Beach, California. The thin Man from Arizona

857
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 2: puffed nervously on a cigarette as he told his story.

858
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: Suffering from cancer of the lung. He was told last

859
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: fall that he had only months to live. Two weeks

860
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: ago he came to Imperial Beach, and since then he

861
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 2: has regularly driven across the border to Tijuana, Mexico, and

862
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 2: visited a clinic where he receives a shot of Latrill,

863
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: a controversial drug that has been outlawed in the US

864
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: since nineteen sixty three. Already he claims to be better,

865
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: says he, I feel now like I'm not going to die.

866
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 3: Oh God.

867
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 2: I love that he's still smoking and he's got lung cancer.

868
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: He's smoking. Like, no, I feel good now, I'm definitely living.

869
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: I love the Latrill. This that trill man, we all

870
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 2: love that trill baby made a deep Space nine reference there.

871
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 2: But I'm not going to do that. No, no, I'm

872
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: not giving you people that you don't deserve it. So

873
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: this audience summarized some of the dangers and a small

874
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 2: part of the case against Latrill, but it basically came

875
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: away arguing, Hey, why in the government just do human

876
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: studies and put these claims to rest. You know, why

877
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 2: don't they just end the debate right and like again,

878
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: it's just like a journalist sticking his mouth where he shouldn't,

879
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: like or you should, but you should talk to a scientist,

880
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 2: because a doctor would have told you, well, we can't

881
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: test this on people ethically because it's cyanide, because it

882
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 2: kills them.

883
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 3: Mm.

884
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 2: So what are you saying, like, we can't just do

885
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: a test of the cyanide pill. Oh, let me break

886
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 2: this down very simply for you journalists.

887
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 3: Man, Okay, go ahead, I'm listening.

888
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: You can't just poison people to death to see if

889
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: that kills them anymore?

890
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: How do we know?

891
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it works.

892
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: That's the thing. That's what you guys are just hating.

893
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: You might think that a total lack of evidence that

894
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: your cancer cure helps people, in a preponderance of evidence

895
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: that it kills children in particular, would have convinced a

896
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 2: man like Ernst Krebs Junior to back off, But he had,

897
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: by the late seventies adapted to the new tactic of

898
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: crying oppression and just pretending that the people who were

899
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 2: dying weren't dying. He portrayed himself as a victim set

900
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: upon by a sinister big brother style regime. And I

901
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 2: want to quote, I'm going to read you a quote.

902
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: This is like him delivering a speech. He would give

903
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: variations of this often when he would give his public appearances.

904
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: After presenting a rather effective lecture on cancer, the windshield

905
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: was shot out of my car on the road back

906
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: to San Francisco. The next night, the glass window in

907
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,879
Speaker 2: the tailgate was shot out, three hundred miles removed from

908
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: the first shooting. The police said, maybe someone is trying

909
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 2: to tell you something. The late Arthur Harris, MD was

910
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 2: threatened by two men with assassination if he continued to

911
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: use Latrill. Since that time, we have decentralized the work

912
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: so that if any two of us are shot out

913
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 2: of the saddle, it will only have a slight negative

914
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 2: effect on the program. Oh my god, where arguing that, like, yeah,

915
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 2: we're doing what they do with like the fucking PEPSI,

916
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 2: the KFC ingredient. You always have to for the president

917
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 2: and the vice president.

918
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 3: We need a loan survivor protocol.

919
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah for this Latrill.

920
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: Bullshit, fucking Jesus Christ.

921
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: Now, the takest thing about this story is how well

922
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 2: his tactics worked the same year those kids died. In

923
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, a Federal District Court judge and of

924
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: course Oklahoma, ruled that Latrill was exempt from the Food

925
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: and Drug Act because of a grandfather clause, which stated

926
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: that terminal cancer patients had a right to privacy for

927
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: their personal supplies of an experimental drug. This right was

928
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: affirmed by the US Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit,

929
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: who ruled that the Food and Drug Act didn't apply

930
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 2: to terminal patients period. And it's like there is a

931
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 2: degree to which like, well, if this had stayed the law,

932
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: maybe at least medical marijuana would have been less of

933
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: a fight or something. But this does not continue along

934
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 2: these lines and probably unbalanced. Good given what's happening right now,

935
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 2: what's happening with Latrill. But the chain of court victories

936
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: is halted and reversed ultimately by the US Supreme Court

937
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: who are like, nah, bro, dying of cancer doesn't mean

938
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 2: you don't deserve consumer protection, right, And that's what the

939
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: concern over Latrill is. It doesn't work, and it kills people,

940
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: and you don't have a right to poison people just

941
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: because their cancer serious. It was established that the FDA

942
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 2: ban on the trill did not infringe on any constitutional

943
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: rights now that the federal battle was over nineteen eighty Also,

944
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 2: Krebs Junior briefly goes to actual prison for a little while,

945
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: like he gets a brief sentence from his seventy three convictions,

946
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: so he has a little bit of time now that

947
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 2: the federal battle is over. Latrill advocates pivoted and embraced

948
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: a strategy that would be modified not long after by

949
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: the medical marijuana movement. I didn't bring that up for nothing.

950
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: Per that article in the Cancer Journal for Clinicians, supporters

951
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 2: developed an end run approach by promoting legalizing statutes within

952
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 2: the states, utilizing the lobbying machinery of the right wing

953
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 2: political apparatus, and frequently being opposed only by a poorly

954
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: organized and ill informed medical establishment. This movement scored a

955
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: number of quick and impressive victories. State legislators appeared singularly

956
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: unimpressed by testimonies about scientific data and responsible drug testing procedures,

957
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 2: and decisively moved by the highly emotional testimonials and packed

958
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: galleries of the Latrill faithful. After Alaska's lead in the

959
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six seventy seven sessions. Thirteen additional states voted

960
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 2: to legalize latrill in nineteen seventy seven and seventy eight,

961
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: and seven more followed a year later. The practical impact

962
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: of these acts was minor because the drug was already

963
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: widely available. The emotional impact, however, was considerable. Statewide legislation

964
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: of latrill, regardless of restrictions about the user manufacture, implied

965
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 2: that the drug did have some value and clearly tended

966
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: to establish a precedence circumventing the standards of the Food

967
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 2: and Drug Act as they painstakingly evolved over seventy five years. Jesus,

968
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: So basically, you have this Food and Drug Act, it

969
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: gets stronger and stronger for a while, it really makes

970
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 2: some massive changes, saves a ton of lives, and then

971
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: the right wing, when they lose in court against it

972
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 2: at the federal level, figures out, well, let's just cut

973
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: the ground out from underneath it. If we can convince

974
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,839
Speaker 2: all these state legislators who are only concerned about getting reelection, well,

975
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: we were able to fill the gallery with all of

976
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: these sick people in their families, and all the other

977
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 2: side has is some doctors saying this is bad. Then

978
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: you'll legalize it locally, and eventually people at higher levels

979
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: legislators will realize like, oh shit, opposing this is dangerous

980
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: and that's how we do an inrun around the actual

981
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: doctors and the responsible judges right like fuck them, we

982
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:08,720
Speaker 2: have a better way.

983
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, it just show up in numbers and

984
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 3: that'll it's like the letter writing, you know what I mean.

985
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 3: It's like they'll just see a massive people and that's

986
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 3: what we need.

987
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: And the John Birch Society had been doing stuff like

988
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 2: this for a while, but it's the same shit you

989
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 2: see with a lot of like book banning stuff right today.

990
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 2: This is like a lot of this being worked out

991
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: right specifically in the medical sphere, and this is what's

992
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: brought us to our present position of doom, probably more

993
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: than any other single chain of events. The good news

994
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: I have is that local cases did not always go

995
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: the way of the literal advocates. But this was cut

996
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: by the reality that even when sanity won in court,

997
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: people kept dying. And one of those people was a

998
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 2: five year old named Chad Green. Per an article in

999
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: Boston Local Chad developed a cystic leukemia at age two

1000
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: and began chemotherapy treatment at the University of Nebraska Medical

1001
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: Center in Omaha, where the family originally lived. Chad's condition

1002
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: was improving and is in leukemia was in remission, but

1003
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 2: when doctors recommended radiation, the Greens decided to move to Massachusetts,

1004
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 2: where Chad was placed in the care of doctor John Truman,

1005
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: a pediatric cancer specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital. So, so far,

1006
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: so good, you know, they move but to a real hospital.

1007
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 2: But by this point, by the time they get to Massachusetts,

1008
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 2: the Greens have been reached by the Latrill advocates, who

1009
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: we're telling them, like, isn't that chemo hard on your kid?

1010
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 2: He didn't like it? Right, you want to spare him

1011
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: some suffering. This is also a cure for cancer, but

1012
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 2: there's no side effects, right, So they start giving their

1013
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: kid Latrill and doctor Truman is like, okay, guys, you're

1014
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: ready to continue a chemo And they're like, no, we're

1015
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: actually not doing that. We got our own thing going on.

1016
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 3: Oh what.

1017
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 2: So he goes to the courts, this doctor and he

1018
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: gets he basically is like, I think the parents need

1019
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: to be stopped, and the state of Massachusetts agrees. They

1020
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 2: ordered Chad to be made a ward of the court.

1021
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 2: And they send an order to his parents that you

1022
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 2: have to take him to the hospital to start chemo. Now,

1023
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: now the Greens are like, okay, well, can we do

1024
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: that and keep giving him latrill. But part of what

1025
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 2: had tipped off this doctor is that he had early

1026
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: symptoms of cyanide poisoning. And so the doctor's like, no,

1027
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 2: they're just giving him cyanide. Don't let them keep doing that.

1028
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: And so the judge'es like, no, you can't continue to

1029
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 2: poison this child. So the Greens are like, the fuck,

1030
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: we can't, and they flee to Mexico, where they start

1031
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: staying at doctor Esto Contreras's clinic. Now, legal threats continue

1032
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 2: to flow from across the border, but per time quote,

1033
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: they were getting financial support from the National Health Federation,

1034
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: that's that group founded by Bradford, this like group, which also,

1035
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: by the way, was starting to oppose the fluoridation of water,

1036
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 2: and from private citizens who contend that the state has

1037
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: no business telling parents how to care for their children.

1038
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 2: With these contributions, the Greens hope to get by while

1039
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: they are in Mexico. There is such a loving atmosphere

1040
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 2: here at the clinic, says Gerald Green. The doctor after

1041
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: giving us the test results, tells us, we'll be praying

1042
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: with you. You just don't find that in the States, And God,

1043
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 2: that says so much about the psychology here of Like,

1044
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: I don't care as much if my kid lives as

1045
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 2: well as whether or not the doctor prayed with us.

1046
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 2: You know that makes me feel better about it than

1047
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: some doctor who was saving his life actively. Yeah, he

1048
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 2: didn't pray with us, just now.

1049
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 3: He was just too clinical.

1050
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, too clinical and a clinic. Can you believe it?

1051
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: Unbelievable.

1052
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,959
Speaker 2: Several months after this, Chad dies, possibly from leukemia which

1053
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 2: was untreated now, but also some of the evidence suggests

1054
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: that he dies of cyanide poisoning, which, given the cyanide,

1055
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 2: not a huge stretch for his part. When doctor Contraras

1056
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 2: is like, hey, so this kid died, is this maybe

1057
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: evidence that you fucked up, corn Teris is like, no, no, No,

1058
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 2: Chad's death is proof that latroll works. It didn't save him,

1059
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: but he died a really pleasant You guys didn't see it,

1060
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: but he died like a really good death. Oh, he

1061
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,560
Speaker 2: was super chill thanks to Latrill. You know, he would

1062
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: have died a much worse death if it weren't for

1063
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 2: Latrill and like he.

1064
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: Search YouTube right now, chill death compilation.

1065
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got like a bunch of them all over here.

1066
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 2: I take a video every time now. And even his

1067
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: family didn't agree with this because, like all they would

1068
00:51:58,239 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: tell the news is that at the end, he was

1069
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 2: so sad to be away from his grandparents and his

1070
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 2: friends and his home, like he was just lonely in

1071
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: a foreign Not only did he die unnecessarily, but he

1072
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: died unnecessarily lonely in a strange foreign country.

1073
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1074
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: It's fucking bleak. And there's a lot of other horror

1075
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: stories of Latrill miles, many of them hinge around this

1076
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 2: growing idea embraced by right wing activists that parents should

1077
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 2: be the only ones with the power to decide what

1078
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: happens to their kids. Right, this is the root of

1079
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 2: all of the whole fascist movement in this country. Honestly,

1080
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned, is the core current, like

1081
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 2: at least cornerstone of it is the idea that, like,

1082
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: as a parent, you own your child and anything you

1083
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 2: say is right right. In Chad's case, the courts ruled

1084
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: consistently that parental rights did not extend to denying a

1085
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 2: child life saving treatment, but the other courts made different decisions.

1086
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 2: Per Quack Watch, Joseph Hoffbauer was a nine year old

1087
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: with Hodgkin's disease. Unlike Chad Green's parents, Joseph's parents never

1088
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 2: allowed him to receive appropriate treatment, but insisted that he

1089
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 2: received Latrill and metabolic theory. When New York State authorities

1090
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: attempted to place him in protective custody, his parents filed

1091
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: suit and convinced Family Court Judge Lauren Brown to let

1092
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 2: the parents make the treatment decision. Brown stated, this court

1093
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 2: also finds that metabolic therapy has a place in our society,

1094
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 2: and hopefully its proponents are on the first rung of

1095
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: a ladder that will rid us of all forms of cancer.

1096
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,240
Speaker 2: It's just another quack treatment. The parents rejected standard treatment,

1097
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 2: and Joseph died of his disease two years later. Acute

1098
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: lymphocytic leukemia and Hodgkins disease both have ninety five percent

1099
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 2: five year survival rates with appropriate chemotherapy. These are not

1100
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 2: kids who are going to die any way. These are

1101
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 2: kids who had very good odds until the trill came

1102
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: into the picture. Now, perhaps the most famous Latrill death,

1103
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: which comes in nineteen eighty is Steve McQueen, one of

1104
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 2: the great movie stars of his day. He'd been diagnosed

1105
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: with mesothelioma in nineteen seventy nine, and like all these

1106
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 2: other people, he traveled to Mexico to take Latrill.

1107
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 3: Now.

1108
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 2: His doctor was not contrarasts. It was William Kelly, who

1109
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 2: was a dentist who'd had his license revoked in Texas.

1110
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,040
Speaker 3: Perfect, perfect transition.

1111
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 2: Being a dentist in Texas. Guess all cure cancer in Mexico.

1112
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't do mouth stuff anymore when I moved

1113
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: to Mexico now and I'm an oncologist.

1114
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the best doctor. Steve McQueen coet apparently afford.

1115
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 2: Like most Latrill patients, McQueen praised the efficacy of his

1116
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 2: treatment as a life saver, and then died several months

1117
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: later in nineteen eighty. Yeah, and eventually Latrell fever faded,

1118
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: in part because its most zealous advocates died off. Despite

1119
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: the fact that more than seventy thousands Americans had tried it,

1120
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 2: only ninety three case studies were ever submitted to the

1121
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: government to be evaluated. Twenty six of these weren't documented

1122
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: well enough to be useful. The remaining cases were ultimately

1123
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: sent to an expert panel after being blinded and compared

1124
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 2: to sixty eight random chemotherapy patients, and the panel showed

1125
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: that there were two cases of treated cases where people

1126
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 2: went into full remission and four where people went into

1127
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: partial remission, and in the remaining sixty two cases, nothing

1128
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 2: at all happened. And also even the fact that there's like, well,

1129
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: there's six people who seem to see some benefit, but

1130
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: there was actually no attempt to verify that any of

1131
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: these patients existed. So this is just like a list

1132
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: that someone gave them saying these were people. So they

1133
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: couldn't even these six people who apparently got better, we

1134
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,280
Speaker 2: couldn't verify as real people.

1135
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 3: Right.

1136
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: The reviewers concluded that they could make quote no definite

1137
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: conclusions supporting the anti cancer activity of latrill.

1138
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: Cool.

1139
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's more studies after this. There's another one

1140
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: where like two hundred twenty physicians submit data on like

1141
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 2: a thousand patients and there's no evidence that any of

1142
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: them benefited from taking latrill. There's you know a couple

1143
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 2: of different studies, all of which show the same thing, right,

1144
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: which is that no one has been cured or stabilized

1145
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,959
Speaker 2: by Latrill. The median survival rate is less than five

1146
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: months after the start of therapy. For the people who

1147
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 2: lived longer than that, their tumors had gotten larger. Basically,

1148
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 2: it did the same thing at best as no treatment

1149
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 2: and a number of patients side effects of cyanide toxicity.

1150
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, Eventually there's a bunch of these stories and

1151
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 2: demand falls. You know, there's a lot of lawsuits against

1152
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 2: the companies making it against Bradford. Most of these are

1153
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: thrown out of court, but it does damage to the brand,

1154
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 2: and today Latrill is still that you can find. Mexican

1155
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: cancer clinics are still selling the trill as vitamin B seventeen.

1156
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 2: It's not completely gone, but it's like, you know, it's

1157
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: not top dog in the fake cancer cures anymore. And

1158
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 2: that's the story. Miles.

1159
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: Oh well, my brother said of a patient asked him

1160
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 1: about B seventeen recently. Oh good, great, my brother an oncologist.

1161
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 3: Just doing doing your own research is how you get there.

1162
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,919
Speaker 1: Currently, he said, he gets asked about ivermectin like every

1163
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: day as like a cure for cancer.

1164
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 5: So well, that's right, sounds very frustrating.

1165
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 3: If it's freedom of choice, man, freedom of choice, freedom

1166
00:56:55,520 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 3: of poisons, freedom of poisons, freedom to be God to

1167
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 3: your children, and that's yeah, great, Well I feel better.

1168
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 3: You know, I was just saying how much of a bummer.

1169
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: I was just going through some shit, man.

1170
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: But now with everything everything's fixed, I feel hippy pivity,

1171
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 1: bobbity bastards.

1172
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 2: Pippity boppity bastards. Well, hey, you know what, Miles. Don't

1173
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: you tell people something that will cure their cancer?

1174
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 3: Well, I don't have a cure for cancer, but I

1175
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 3: do have a pill. It's a two for one. It

1176
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 3: cures male powterern baldness and impotence. It's called bone hair,

1177
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 3: and it's just once a day you take it. And

1178
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 3: I mean some people it works. I am pretty I

1179
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 3: think it works. I think it works. You know, the

1180
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 3: Coroner's office is doing some lab work and they're going

1181
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 3: to get back to me on some couple of people

1182
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 3: who I think they were. I think they went od

1183
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 3: with it or od'd on it. I don't know. Anyway,

1184
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: forget that. If you like podcasts, you can also listen

1185
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 3: to me on the Daily ye Geist or for Twenty

1186
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 3: Day Fiance find me there.

1187
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, find Miles there and find my exciting new cancer treatment,

1188
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 2: which is just do nothing and send me tens of

1189
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars, you know, and through the power of

1190
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: my own positive thinking, I'll fix your shit.

1191
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 3: Wow.

1192
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, I got it baby.

1193
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1194
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 5: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1195
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 5: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1196
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1197
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes

1198
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot

1199
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: com slash at Behind the Bastards