WEBVTT - Can Black People Be Racist? | MiniPod

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<v Speaker 1>Native Land Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership

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<v Speaker 1>with Resent Choice Medium.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome home, y'all. It is another Native Lamppod Mini Pod.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Angela Raie. There's Tivity Cross and Andrew Gillim and

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<v Speaker 3>today we are going to ask an age old question,

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<v Speaker 3>can black people be racist? I'm gonna start with Andrew.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you don't.

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<v Speaker 3>He never wants to answer new question comet.

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<v Speaker 2>Only because you know how like I feel like social scientists,

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<v Speaker 2>black social scientists have like this construct of black people

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<v Speaker 2>cannot be racist against themselves because we are not in

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<v Speaker 2>a position of power, and racism is part of a

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<v Speaker 2>structure that is intended to produce a certain outcome, largely

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<v Speaker 2>one that does not include us as a part of

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<v Speaker 2>the beneficiary of Whatever the outcomes are, it should be positive.

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<v Speaker 2>So social scientists tell us one way. But I guess

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<v Speaker 2>if I were thinking about it in Layman's terms, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was just thinking, are there attitudes that black folks

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<v Speaker 2>can have that are negative toward one another based off

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<v Speaker 2>of some things the way they dress, where they're from,

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<v Speaker 2>what's side of the tracks they grew up on, what

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<v Speaker 2>schools they went to or didn't go to. If that

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<v Speaker 2>were the framing, I would say, yes, we can, we

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<v Speaker 2>can demonstrate classes and bigoted opinions. But I just I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I feel like I'm wrong for even saying

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<v Speaker 2>we could be racist, because I've read so many social

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<v Speaker 2>scientists who say it's impossible what you think? Can we

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<v Speaker 2>be racist? In the traditional construct? Or in the one

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<v Speaker 2>I just made up, which was basically the solitudes about.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a complicated answer, right, I don't think it's

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<v Speaker 1>yes or no. In the traditional construct, No, because there

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<v Speaker 1>is no construct in which black people went over to Europe,

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<v Speaker 1>kidnapped a bunch of people, raped them, beat the humanity

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<v Speaker 1>out of them, and created this global infrastructure to produce

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<v Speaker 1>their wealth and create a power structure where we would

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<v Speaker 1>have that kind of reach. So in the traditional sense, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I do, however, think yes, there are instances in which

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<v Speaker 1>black people can be racist in which they exercise are

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<v Speaker 1>we I should say, we exercise our power or authority

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<v Speaker 1>over other groups I And I've seen people say things

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<v Speaker 1>can have racist attitudes, prejudiced attitudes about other groups of people,

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<v Speaker 1>the Latino community, API community, indigenous community.

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<v Speaker 4>So the even the Arab community.

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<v Speaker 1>So yes, I don't know if it's racism, but I've

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<v Speaker 1>certainly seen and heard black people in engage in hateful language.

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<v Speaker 1>Not all, of course, you know, but pockets of Black

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<v Speaker 1>people have said and done certain things.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know. Is that racism or is that prejudice.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think it's racism, Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's there's the difference between bigotry and discrimination. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I think that that is the point. So I want

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<v Speaker 3>to read some definitions, if that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>So Mariam Webster says, the meaning of racism is a

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<v Speaker 3>belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits

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<v Speaker 3>and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority

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<v Speaker 3>of a particular race. I fundamentally disagree with that definition.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's what says.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe that race is a fundamental determinant of human

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<v Speaker 3>traits and capacities, and that racial differences produce an inherent

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<v Speaker 3>superiority of a particular race. That feels more supremacy than racism.

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<v Speaker 3>About Okay, This is what I want to go to

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<v Speaker 3>because I think that it is helpful for us sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>to step out of an American construct. This is from

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<v Speaker 3>the Australian Human Rights Commission. Racism is the process by

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<v Speaker 3>which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities

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<v Speaker 3>and outcomes for people based on race. To me, that

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<v Speaker 3>is racism. It is structural, it is systemic, and that

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<v Speaker 3>means Black people cannot be racist. I think that black

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<v Speaker 3>people can discriminate. I think that black people can be biggots.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that black people can engage, can even like facilitating,

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<v Speaker 3>engage in a hate crime. I don't believe that black

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<v Speaker 3>people can be racist. I'm rolling with Australian. Maybe that's

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<v Speaker 3>where I get my second citizenship. If this keeps going

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<v Speaker 3>away that I think is going to.

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<v Speaker 2>Average go aheadage, No, I agree, but that's why we

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<v Speaker 2>had to deconstruct it. I think all three of us

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<v Speaker 2>agree that in the traditional construct of racism, which is

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<v Speaker 2>to do with structures, powers, systems, in individual attitudes that

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<v Speaker 2>influence all of it, then no, because we're not at

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<v Speaker 2>the end where we can manipulate and shift those things.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So you know, given the fact that I think

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<v Speaker 3>that we're basically agreeing by the definition from the Australian

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<v Speaker 3>who got their nerve to I understand tip, I saw

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<v Speaker 3>you telling me no not to go to Australia. But

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<v Speaker 3>at least they have come to terms with the term right,

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<v Speaker 3>which is better than what we can say over here.

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<v Speaker 3>I think we regularly get in our social media feed

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<v Speaker 3>you racist, you race baiter when we hear those kinds

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<v Speaker 3>of terms, like what does it mean to be a

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<v Speaker 3>race baiter? How would you all respond to, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>either any one of us being called a race bator?

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<v Speaker 4>What does it mean?

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<v Speaker 3>And then what do you hear when when that's dropped

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<v Speaker 3>into your social media comments?

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<v Speaker 1>I get that so often. I gotta be honest. I

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<v Speaker 1>pay no attention. I have zero interests in white folks

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<v Speaker 1>telling me anything about my attitude on race, race relations anything.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just not what does it mean? Tif, I don't

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<v Speaker 4>even know what it means.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm being serious.

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<v Speaker 4>This is a genuine what does it mean to be

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<v Speaker 4>a ras?

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<v Speaker 2>I think what it means is they are hearing you

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<v Speaker 2>say something us say something largely about a inequality that

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<v Speaker 2>exists in the system that makes them uncomfortable, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>basically saying, I've had my trials and tribulations. True too,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't blame it on race. I blame it

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<v Speaker 2>on you know, a whole other thing before I get

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<v Speaker 2>to race. But you all just seem to when you

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<v Speaker 2>run up against your struggle, your hardship, your lack of

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<v Speaker 2>a promotion, that it happened because you're black.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and then here's so here's my question. Now, so

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<v Speaker 4>how does that square was?

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<v Speaker 3>Like you guys have seen the Department of Justice Office

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<v Speaker 3>Civil Rights has said that their new approach is going

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<v Speaker 3>to be focused on defending white Christian men. So if

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<v Speaker 3>race is not a factor, why would they need to

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<v Speaker 3>defend and protect white Christian men? I mean it is

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<v Speaker 3>that to me feels like if there was a race baiting.

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<v Speaker 3>That to me feels like the race bait because you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Trying to toddler crib actually to me, Yeah, why they

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<v Speaker 2>want to put they want to put They want to

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<v Speaker 2>put pads on their children from the earliest possible point

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<v Speaker 2>and a force field around them, so that anything that

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<v Speaker 2>could cause them to think more critically about the role

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<v Speaker 2>that their ancestors may have played and the world that

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<v Speaker 2>we get to live in today, if it offends them,

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<v Speaker 2>if it disrupts their sensibilities or makes them to reflect

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<v Speaker 2>poorly on themselves, or the choices of their ancestors. Then

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<v Speaker 2>that is not something that we want talk to them.

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<v Speaker 2>That is not something we want talk to anybody, because

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<v Speaker 2>why should they have to carry a burden for something

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<v Speaker 2>that they didn't do?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, hm, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm not a whisperer for white folks. I

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<v Speaker 2>just think a lot of times when I.

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<v Speaker 3>Sometimes it depends on the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not a whisperer, but I will tell you having

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<v Speaker 2>run for governor and a state, folks are eleven percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the population, and you've got to talk to a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of different people. They're what they really mean. The

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<v Speaker 2>direct speak can come out and often does in these

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<v Speaker 2>comfortable settings where it's just like, but why does everything

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<v Speaker 2>have to be about race? That's a good question. I

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<v Speaker 2>have the same same goddamn question.

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<v Speaker 4>That is a good question, Bran.

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<v Speaker 3>Do don't we feel based on even when TIF articulated

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<v Speaker 3>at the top of this around, like, we didn't go

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<v Speaker 3>to Europe and say, Okay, well you're gonna We're gonna

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<v Speaker 3>come and enslave you and take you over here because

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<v Speaker 3>we feel like, based on whatever bootleg ass research we've done,

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<v Speaker 3>that you would be better conditioned and more suitable to

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<v Speaker 3>be enslaved. We didn't do that, but they did. And

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<v Speaker 3>so from its very foundation, which we of course argue

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<v Speaker 3>sixteen and we should also talk about that sixteen nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>versus seven teen seventy six. The since sixteen nineteen, right,

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<v Speaker 3>that has been the posture that was absolutely about race

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<v Speaker 3>killing the quote unquote savages which are indigenous people people

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<v Speaker 3>from Indian country. That is absolutely based on race. So

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<v Speaker 3>how could they argue anything different or is it just

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<v Speaker 3>like now we're going to gaslight you in a racist history.

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<v Speaker 1>It's even beyond gas lighting. They have penetrated within our community.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember watching Stephen Jackson, a former NBA player at

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<v Speaker 1>the time that Maria Taylor, the whole ESPN debacle with

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<v Speaker 1>Maria Taylor over. I think her name is Rachel Lindsay

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<v Speaker 1>and Steven Jackson.

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<v Speaker 4>No, not Rachel Lindsay, Nichols.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it Rachel Nichols, Rachel Rachel's whoever?

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<v Speaker 3>Rachel was Rachel Nichols, Rachel and sports expert just got.

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<v Speaker 2>Still keep you going, I'm learning.

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<v Speaker 4>I got so much sports knowledge in here. Given all states,

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<v Speaker 4>it was crowding up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you, yes, President, Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Stephen Jackson came out and was capin for this white woman.

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<v Speaker 4>And he was like, y'all know, we don't like it

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<v Speaker 4>when it happens to us. And you know, Rachel basically

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<v Speaker 4>should have got this job.

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<v Speaker 1>And I watched with such a disgust because he was equate,

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<v Speaker 1>like these two women were the same. He was equating

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<v Speaker 1>it like something happened to her. And number one, why

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<v Speaker 1>do you feel like your black face and your black

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<v Speaker 1>voice needs to be the one to come out here

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<v Speaker 1>and defend this woman against a black woman?

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<v Speaker 4>The power structure was all wrong, so you up here

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<v Speaker 4>capin to protect white.

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<v Speaker 1>Women because black women were privileged in this situation, Like

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<v Speaker 1>not at all. I thought Steven Jackson looked like a clown.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when I hear things like that, that does

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<v Speaker 1>make me want to scream, like black people can't be racist.

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<v Speaker 1>But when I say black, when I started the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>was like, well, maybe black people can be racist. I'll

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<v Speaker 1>tell y'all, I was thinking about that episode of Insecure.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if y'all watch Insecure when Lisa Ray

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<v Speaker 1>do you okay? So Angela, you remember when Lisa was

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<v Speaker 1>volunteering at the or doing her program after school program

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<v Speaker 1>with the white girl and the principal was funneling only

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<v Speaker 1>black students to get all the extra help, and she

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<v Speaker 1>was basically like, Okay, well it's a win. But her

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<v Speaker 1>white colleague was like, yeah, but he's intentionally leaving out

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<v Speaker 1>the Latino students. And she's like, yeah, I get that,

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<v Speaker 1>but we need these numbers, we need a win. And

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<v Speaker 1>she was saying that's racist, and she was like, black

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<v Speaker 1>people can't be racist, and the white girl said, but

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<v Speaker 1>you're using a position of power to deny these Latino

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<v Speaker 1>students access to.

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<v Speaker 4>This, and I ain't gonna lie to me that was right.

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<v Speaker 4>It wasn't.

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<v Speaker 1>The principal was in a position of power in this

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<v Speaker 1>particular situation, as was Lisa, because she controlled the budget

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<v Speaker 1>for the program, and she was kind She wasn't promoting it,

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<v Speaker 1>but she was kind of okay with it the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the episode. I mean, I can give y'all spoilers

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<v Speaker 1>because it's been off air for a while, but the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the episode, she realized like, you know what, No,

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<v Speaker 1>I need to be more inclusive and I do need

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<v Speaker 1>to include Latino students. We had a whole different conversation

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<v Speaker 1>going on right now because right now people are like,

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<v Speaker 1>don't talk to me about nobody else but black people

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<v Speaker 1>because of what happened is past election. And I have

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<v Speaker 1>to say I struggle with that because I have always

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<v Speaker 1>had the Fred Hampton approach, bring along everybody, and we

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<v Speaker 1>are barely fourteen percent of the population. We can't make

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<v Speaker 1>it without allies. So I my harm reduction is how

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<v Speaker 1>can we protect our people black people? But also at

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<v Speaker 1>what point are we right? Because we could take a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>It's fine we pissed off in see election, But at

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<v Speaker 1>what point do we say, okay, now we need to

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<v Speaker 1>identify allies and lock arms and work together. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think we in the throes of figuring that out right now.

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<v Speaker 2>So your cape and comment, Tiffany, and it could be

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<v Speaker 2>applied to so many other examples, but it could it

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:53.320
<v Speaker 2>be argued that his position was arguing more about from

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<v Speaker 2>a perspective of power than one you know, Steve Jackson

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<v Speaker 2>from the Steve Jackson or give you so I have heard,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is my belief. I think racism runs the

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<v Speaker 2>day up until it runs up against power. And oftentimes

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.839
<v Speaker 2>they are and extrictly be connected anyway, at least here

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:19.560
<v Speaker 2>in these Americas. But I feel like people see power

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:24.199
<v Speaker 2>people who they see in power, they analyze what they

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<v Speaker 2>think the type of graph of that person is, and

0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.839
<v Speaker 2>when they are on their climb, they emulate that saying

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.319
<v Speaker 2>practice and behavior. You've ever been with a black law

0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:41.880
<v Speaker 2>enforcement officer with a badge, boys in the hood. You

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 2>can go to Maryland, the Maryland Moseby and the prosecution. Yeah,

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Freddy Gray. Absolutely. So. All I'm saying is is that

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<v Speaker 2>these are people. You can't say they don't like black people.

0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 2>They may not like black people, but but but essentially

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.680
<v Speaker 2>what is being carried out Wait, I am now in

0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:06.120
<v Speaker 2>a position of power. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, Maryland didn't prosecute Freddy Gray.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, I'm talking about I'm talking about the

0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:20.200
<v Speaker 2>officers who were prosecuted by by yes, the majority of them.

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I think we're black, yes, correct, of those law enforcement officers.

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<v Speaker 2>And what I'm saying is is I think that our

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 2>attitudes behaviors are much more symptomatic of an illustration of

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 2>power and what happens when people ascend to levels of

0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 2>power than it has to do with the race construct,

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 2>necessarily when the offender is largely US. I think there

0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.920
<v Speaker 2>are models of power that the closer you get to it,

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<v Speaker 2>and God knows if you get it, you start to

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>replicate what you believe were the conditions that had the

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 2>last guy in power. And it's through a Eurocentric model

0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.000
<v Speaker 2>which all of us have been taught to to talk

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.480
<v Speaker 2>through and to to your point around you can hate

0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 2>yourself like a black person can hate on other black

0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 2>There's no doubt about that. In fact, Cartigie Woodson talks

0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 2>about it in The Miseducation of the Negro. He says,

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<v Speaker 2>and you let him to the back door, you don't

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 2>have to send him. He will go because his education

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 2>makes it necessary. And that's the lasting that's the lasting

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 2>effect of racism is that it's been so successful that

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.920
<v Speaker 2>you get the people themselves to believe what you have

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 2>to say about them.

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<v Speaker 4>It is absolutely the truth.

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.680
<v Speaker 3>I would encourage people to read the Pedagogy of the

0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.720
<v Speaker 3>Old Press to hear more about this power structure and

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:39.800
<v Speaker 3>what happens when we get into it or when we

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 3>reclaim it ourselves. Of course, the biggest fear of white

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 3>folks in power is that one day, when we do

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<v Speaker 3>have the power, that we would do to them what

0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.640
<v Speaker 3>they've done to us. So with on that note, the

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.480
<v Speaker 3>resounding answer is no, we cannot be racist. Yes, we

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 3>can be hateful, and let us work very hard to

0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:00.520
<v Speaker 3>overcome hate, because we know that we can't drive sessful

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 3>policy and hate. We can only do that with love.

0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 4>So on that we.

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.520
<v Speaker 3>Welcome you all home into our family. Comment on this,

0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 3>let us know if you agree with us where we

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 3>got it wrong. Most of it was Andrew today, But

0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 3>we love y'all. God bless you.

0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Y'all will get to hear it. I'm sorry it's in

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the cut.

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 3>That's not true.

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 2>That's not true.

0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:21.480
<v Speaker 4>We don't do that.

0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 2>We don't do that. You're welcome home, y'all.

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Native Land Pod is the production of iHeart Radio and

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.200
<v Speaker 1>partnership with Resent Choice Media. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.520
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