WEBVTT - Younger Generations Rethinking Work 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business Weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.880 Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.240 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. Well, the earliest studies in 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.680 amicron are giving cause for cautious optimism. We've certainly seen 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.400 that play out in the financial market trade, the equity 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:41.520 trade in particular. Well, vaccines may be less powerful against 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:44.000 the new variant. Protection can be fortified with boosters, and 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.040 that's certainly something we're hearing from the company's fist in BioNTech, 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.360 saying initial lab studies showed a third dose of their 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:54.280 COVID nineteen vaccine neutralizes amicron, results that will accelerate global 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.600 booster drives in the U S. I've certainly seen it 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.760 as you try to sign up that it's now you've 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:00.520 got to wait a couple of weeks to get that boostered. 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.639 It's it's really step a lot of momentum. I've heard 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.399 that from colleagues. I got mine on Monday. Um, but 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.480 I know, talk about a catalyst to get you know, 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.520 thoughts over to shots. People are noticing it in a 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.520 big way. Well back with us to talk about the 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.280 latest day's headlines when it comes to the pandemic. Dr 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.160 Anthony Harris work Care's Chief Innovation Officer and associated or 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.760 an associate medical director of the onside clinical operations for 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.120 the company. Work here. If you're not familiar, there are 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.840 a physician directed occupational health services company. Dr Harris also 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.760 leads the company's COVID nineteam clinical response team. He is 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.800 back with us UH from Chicago where they're based. Dr Harris, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.040 nice to have you back with Tim and myself. How 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.080 are you How are things in Chicago when it comes 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.400 to the pandemic. Well, thank you Carol, thank you Tim 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.360 for having me back. And things are Things are okay. 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.840 When I say okay, you know people aren't running around 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.280 with their hair on fire here. Um, but certainly we're 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.000 seeing the effects of this amicron scare, you know, recently, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:59.920 and so we're seeing more masks compliance potentially, and certainly 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.120 we're talking about going to shows and whatnot. We're seeing 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.600 more requirements that you have to be vaccinated to get in. 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.560 How much does that actually help people? Like, what is 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.320 the thing that actually prompts people to get shots the 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.160 people who are sitting on the sidelines right now? Is 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.640 it something like what Carol was talking about with people 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:16.720 going to get boosters because the amicron? What's me at 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:22.799 somebody get the first shot? Sure? Yeah, yeah. We saw 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.480 early on right the early movers, kind of the third 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.960 of the population roughly that had been fully vaccinated go 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.840 ahead and sign up to get their boosters. And if 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.160 you look at the statistics now in the US we're 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.799 looking at I'm just thirty percent though as of two 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:40.600 weeks ago received their booth boosters, and we saw an 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.720 acceleration of that just last week with the scare of armoricrons. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:47.639 I mean, we had one of the highest boostered days 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.640 on record. I believe it was two point seven million 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.360 boosters administered in one twenty four hour periods, which again 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.160 points back towards what motivates people to get boosters. Certainly 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:00.880 fear is one of them, right, It's like a logically Unfortunately, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.919 we know fear only last roughly about two weeks as 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.880 a motivating factor. So um, the other factors, I believe 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:12.480 to a minor extent are gaining access to different venues. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.119 So we'll see how it continues to play out. I 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:19.400 think mandates, right, we've seen put in place, uh increase 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.960 booster participation, but I think we've already kind of topped 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.840 out the effectiveness of that approach at this point. Okay, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.240 I am curious since the pandemic has started, and I 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.640 think we're about you know, twenty months or so in 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.880 since the pandemic took hold in the US, depending on 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.440 how you count it, but roughly, so, how is your 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.320 thinking and strategy evolved in terms of managing pandemic up 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.520 and managing the pandemic? Dr Harris? Sure it really is, 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:52.000 you know, going with classic um public health approaches right 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.440 and by far in the way, the biggest approach is education, right, 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.680 and educating the public in today's time dreft stically different 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.680 than educating the public back in smallpox time. Right, Um, 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:08.480 where And I'm just speaking anecdotally as a physician. Uh 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.280 here in the US. You know, when when I started 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.560 my career a decade ago, um, you know, I would 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:17.600 approach my patients and begin to educate, and I would 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.320 have some good dialogue around what the best approaches. But 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.120 certainly today it's more of hey, doc, here's what I've 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.800 researched on my own, guide me towards and navigate me 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.919 towards the data so that I can make my best 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.320 informed decision, whereas days of antiquity was more so Hey doc, 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.680 you're the expert. I'm gonna do what you recommend. So 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.679 I think that dynamically see playing out from a public 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.440 health education standpoint, not a bad thing, right. We want 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.760 people to be accountable for their own health and wellness. Um. 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.359 But with today's information and the prevalence of misinformation, it 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.320 is perhaps becoming more difficult to do. Hey, Dr Harris, 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.160 help us understand what expectations should be as far as 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.120 booster shots go. Uh, as we do, you know, get 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:01.320 to the other side. I use the term get to 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:02.919 the other side of this pandemic. But it just seems 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:04.640 like every few months there's a new variant that's not 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:07.160 getting us to the other side. So wondering is there 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.000 is it realistic for us to think that we're gonna 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:13.920 have to get a booster every six months or so? Unfortunately, Uh, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.760 the estimate is yes, right, we see wane of the 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.440 booster after about six months even now, right, I know 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:26.120 anecdotally again position partners of mine that are planning to 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.159 get their fourth shop. Right, so they've been fully vacid 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.719 to receive a booster, and they're already planning to get 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.320 their next booster come early next year to keep their 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.839 immunity level high. And the science behind that is straightforward. 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.640 You have a building of immune UH, antibodies and immune cells. 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:47.000 These are called plasma cells that remember what the virus is, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:49.680 what it looks like, right Uh, And those we know 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.320 diminish over time both antibodies and B sales B cells 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.120 to a lesser extent um. But when we're talking about 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.040 new variants, even if you have a decent level of 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.720 antibodies against one type of virus, doesn't necessarily mean it's 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.040 going to bind well to the new virus. I e. 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.039 Amicron that has thirty mutations over thirty mutations in the 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:15.000 binding site for our antibody. So the the basic sciences. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.159 The more antibodies you have in your system, the better 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.599 off you are are going to be in terms of 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:24.920 varying against historic variants as well as new variants. Unfortunately, 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:28.839 we know clearly antibody levels diminished over time. Dr Harris, 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:30.880 twenty seconds left. How are you advising your team in 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.200 terms of maybe where we will be in a year's time? 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.120 Just quickly, please, I always say, plain and simple, you know, 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.800 follow the finances and the pharmacy. We are very estimating 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.960 to ramp up their production, both Feiser and mcdania murth 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.200 uh in all through tween twenty two. So in a 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:47.760 year's time we're gonna still be in listica phones. All right, 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:52.080 good to know, I guess. Dr Anthony Harris, chief Innovation 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:54.800 Officer at work Care, on the phone from Chicago. You're 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.760 listening to Bloomberg Business Week. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:02.120 Week with Carol mat Sir and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:06.480 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. It's Bloomberg Big Take. It's among 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:08.880 our most read on the Bloomberg Today. It's all spelled 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.680 out in the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg Business Week. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.320 Got tomorrow on newsstands at business Week Dot comment on 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.000 the Bloomberg the story one of the great rethings. I 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.480 think it's safe to say of this time, the great resignation. 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:22.640 Why are workers saying but by two jobs? Tens of 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.360 millions of people around the number alone just kind of 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.680 blue with their jobs. Twenty four million between April and 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.880 September this year. That's the US. That's US. That's crazy. 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.960 That is an absolutely wild number. Hey, let's talk about 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.960 this with Joel Webber, editor at Bloomberg business Week. He's 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.239 with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio. Also joining 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.120 us is the economics editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Christina 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.800 Lynn Blad. Hey, Joel, Um, we're talking about this. We 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.560 talked about this a lot from the U. S. Perspective, 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:51.440 But what is so great about this story as it 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.680 brings together a really really global perspective by talking about 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.120 what's happening in the U S. And China and even 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.960 other places as well. Yeah, So, I think the Great 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.400 Resignation here in the US. We can throw around that 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.640 twenty four million number if we want. It's been a thing. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.400 But what's interesting about this is that there's like other 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.720 forces and other things that aren't called the great resignation 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.320 in the life flat being really uh, the embodiment of this. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.720 So it has created this sort of global thing that's 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:23.320 happening of people basically just opting out of work. And 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.080 for those for those of us who haven't done that, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.080 it's like a great mystery about like what what're you 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:33.439 doing here? And like how are you? Um? But yet 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:38.800 there are massive implications for this, not only from um economics, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.400 but um also just like what a labor force starts 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.360 to look like when you lose this many workers. But Christina, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.800 what's what's behind it all? What's happening? And what is 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.360 if you haven't heard of life flat yet, what where 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.080 did it all come from? Life Flat in China came 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:59.600 from a social media post in which um, this young 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.720 guy I admitted that it was almost kind of embarrassed 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.200 the beginning. It's like I haven't worked for a couple 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.160 of years. He used to be a factory worker and 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.439 and basically he said, this is like a philosophical choice 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:17.240 that I'm making. Um, and uh, it became it went 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:21.480 viral and uh and and to to just get a 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.560 feeling for how big it was, she Shaane Ping and 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.400 other members of China's leadership responded to that language directly 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:34.360 saying you should not lie flat. And you know, I 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.240 think the thread that runs through all these countries is 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.600 that people are responding to the feeling that they're working 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.080 really hard, but they don't feel like they're getting ahead. 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.320 And one of the reasons is if they're living in 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:49.280 big cities, all these other prices are going up faster 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.679 than their than their wages, their salaries, right, so they 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.440 feel like their incomes are actually stagnant. And I think 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:57.400 I thought that was a really interesting thing that made 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.880 it different from behind, you know, other sort of burnout 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.559 moments that like we've captured in culture. I do think 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.400 about what you all said to like the great implications. 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.280 We were just talking about, um a Goldman Sack story 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.040 that's saying young U S workers are plotting early retirements, 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:12.200 and I'm like, well, how the heck are they going 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.360 to do it? Because probably a lot of folks are 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.920 not like my dad who got pensions, right, and so 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:20.240 those were young people in that survey. I now tend 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:25.679 to think that we need personal finance courses in school miscalculation. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.880 I think about the economic implications, like so if people 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.560 are not going back to work, they're not having babies. Like, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.480 how like, what does this mean globally? Well, and we 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.320 have there are some case studies out there, like Japan 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.840 comes up in the story because there's a statory generation, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.240 right Christina, Like, there's other places that we can kind 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.959 of look to how this has played out before happening. Well, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:52.480 I mean it definitely in Japan. It's almost like the 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.640 statory generation emerged after the country was already in decline. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.760 It was almost a response to this the the economic 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.440 things that have already happened. I mean in China, what there, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.080 what leadership is concerned is that if enough people sort 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.120 of change their thinking that way, because you know, in 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:09.480 order to live that way, you really have to pare 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.400 down your lifestyle, which can be found this one guy 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:16.240 it's like four shirts for shirts, eight long sleeve. I 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:21.000 was like, oh man, that's like four four T shirts. Yeah. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.360 I was like post working from home, you know, that's 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:31.319 exactly sweatpants money. But right, no, it I mean, if 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.760 if it really took off worldwide, it would definitely have 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:39.320 economic implications, you know, or as President gian to something 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.080 in terms of this whole idea, we all talk about 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.600 this wealth gap and if workers get to feel like 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.200 they're making more money, able to live in cities more easily, 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.480 get to share in the wealth, could that put an 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.520 end to some of this or is it more than that? Well, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.840 I mean I think that it could. You know, the 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.160 pandemic lies on top of all of this is sort 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.679 of this extra kind of anxiety that people are feeling. 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:05.600 I think that maybe like what China is doing or 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.760 what employers on their own can do, can sap some 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.680 of the energy from this these movements by addressing these concerns. 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.199 But one of the issues though, is that um, young 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.079 people haven't truly verbalized their demands about what they want, 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.600 you know, from from It's not like they're saying to 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.000 their bosses, do this for me and I will stay, 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:29.280 you know. They're just kind of like saying no, I can't. Yeah. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:33.040 I mean, I guess I have so much to This 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:34.959 brought up so much plus the Goldman Sack story that 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.160 we saw earlier today, and it just had me thinking 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.400 about where we are as a society globally and how 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.160 much this has to do with the pandemic versus how 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.080 much it has to do with the idea that you know, 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.360 maybe for the last thirty or forty years in China 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.400 and the idea of worked and they don't need that 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.520 anymore because China has grown so quickly, and you know, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.000 the rise of leisure here in the United States. It's 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.320 really some product of the twentieth century and the idea 0:12:58.360 --> 0:12:59.960 of the five day work week, like the idea of 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.000 pulling back or we at that point in history where 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.200 productivity is has gotten to a place where we can 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.960 we can step back a little bit. Well, and another 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:09.840 thing we haven't talked about here is just the role 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:13.480 of techness of being able to maybe have a gig 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.360 job where you just work a little bit when you 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.600 want to. And you know, there's a quote in the 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.120 story of like I play three days and then I 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.840 work one day, you know, and and that idea, you know, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.199 we just in the hit when you think about how 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.160 the week is structured, you work five days, you take 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.640 two days off. That was also that we could basically 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:34.840 like make factories work suddenly when you throw in variables, 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.679 like we're beginning to see and compensate people differently, incentivize 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.840 them differently. Maybe that looks like a radically new world, 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.480 and that's sort of what this starts to glimp what 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.800 this starts to glimpse? Right, And I think about some 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.679 of the like I just remember doing a story and 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.920 Pixar like years ago, and they just if people wanted 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.600 to work in the morning, they wanted to work a lot, 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.680 like a full day, and they maybe take some time off. 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.120 Nobody cared as long as things got done. And I 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.040 do wonder are we are we getting closer that we 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.280 just got about thirty sex. I think that um for 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.600 creative types, especially this kind of flexible arrangements, you know 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.199 may work, but you know, like you're staying business week 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:14.160 to bed with that work. We're on the clock right now, 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:19.000 no lying flat of business. It's a big story. We 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.080 have David Rubinstein coming up of the Carlisle Group, and 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.640 it's something we want to talk about with him and 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.200 how he's how he's thinking about that as well. I 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.120 want to know too. Yeah, right, did he get it? 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.880 I don't know, is he is? He? Like no, he's 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:35.680 working all the time. Incredible story, incredible reporting. Christina Linblad, 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.480 thank you so much, Economics editor, Bloomberg business Week. It's 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.200 in the upcoming issue of the magazine. Chill Weber editor 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.040 of Bloomberg Business Week. Um, no lying flat for us, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:54.080 not yet. You're listening to Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.080 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.880 Tim Stinovik on Bloomber Radio. So in his latest episode 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.000 of the upcoming Peer to Peer Conversations on Bloomberg the 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:09.120 Carlisle Group co founder and co chairman David Rubinstein catching 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.840 up the presidency of Hilton Worldwide, Christmas said, a David, 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:13.720 of course, the author of a series How to Lead 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.520 on Leadership, The American Story, those conversations he's had with 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.360 so many of his storians, and his third in that 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.280 series about the arc of the U. S as a 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.760 young country as it invented and really reinvented itself. That book, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.760 The American Experiment, Dialogues on a Dream. David Rubinstein back 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.920 with us on the phone in New York City. David, 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.600 how are you all right? How are you doing okay? 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.520 Doing okay? Um? Christmas Satti loved talking with him. You 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.200 had a really deep dive of a conversation with him. Um, 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.560 what stands out from you in that conversation and how 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:47.040 the hotel industry Hilton specifically is doing. The hotel industry 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.720 suffered probably as much as any industry, perhaps with the 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.400 sole exception of the cruise industry, which pretty much shut 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:59.200 down completely. The hotel industry dramatically UH saw occupancy go down. However, 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.360 occupy and see is now coming back mostly from travel 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.680 and leisure, not as much from business, though business is 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:09.520 coming back a bit. They stocks though of the travel 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.640 lodging companies are done quite well. I mean right now 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.080 Hilton is an all time high. I think Marriott US 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.320 near an all time high as well. So the market 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.960 is anticipating future growth and the real challenge that they 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.720 the hotel companies have, in Christens said, I talked about 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.360 this is where do you get employees? UM, A lot 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.440 of employees went away and now they got to hire 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.720 them back and probably higher wages, and as a result, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.840 you're probably going to have some increases in in UH 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.240 in the cost of rooms. In addition, should you provide 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.600 all the services that you were providing before? People are 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.600 used to having daily towel service and daily makeup service 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.520 and their beds. Do you have to do that? Do 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.360 you have to get free breakfasts every morning to some 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.040 of your patrons to some of these things are going 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.680 to be looked at by companies like Hilton and others. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.800 So what do you think, David about the potential permanent 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.320 shifts that we see on the other side of the 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:01.320 pandemic when we when we do get to the other 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.560 side of the pandemic when it comes to travel, leisure, 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.959 in hospitality. Well, I know from the business community, from 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.240 my point of view, if I had to fly across 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.520 the country for one hour meeting, I used to do it. 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:14.320 Now I'm happy to do a Zoom, So I'm not 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.640 traveling quite as much as I used to. I suspect 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.000 it will come back at some point. But in the 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.320 in the know, pre pandemic, I would go to the 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:23.879 Middle East or go to the Far East UH for 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.720 a day or two and now come back. And now 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.879 I just I'm a little more reluctant do because you 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.119 can do so many things on on zoom. Obviously you 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:31.919 can't do everything on zoom, and you have to have 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.480 personal contact at some point. But I do think that 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.480 business and business travel will will slower, be much more 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.640 slow to come back, much slower to come back. Hey, David, 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.440 did Christ say anything about well, you know, because we 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.680 talk a lot more about more automation coming in robotics. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.720 There's a lot more things we can do online with 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.359 a hotel industry that we couldn't before. Does he say 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.720 that they're making investments or helping you know, at some 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.120 of their team members by really introducing automation that maybe 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.920 sticks with us going forward, Well, sure they are doing 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.560 that right now. For example, rarely do people uh you know, 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.160 need to check in anymore. You can just get your 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.320 ticket online more or less work. Now they're going to 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.320 use face identification to some extent to check in. So 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.160 I think technology is going to dramatically change the industry. 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.359 And and clearly the industry, uh you know, is a 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.200 global industry. I mean, Hilton is all over the world 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.040 and they have thousands of hotels and and they have 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.280 in different categories. That's a big change in the last 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.040 twenty or thirty years. Used to be there was Hilton, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.040 there was Marriott. Now Hilton has about fifteen different brands. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.920 Mary has probably something similar. So you can have something 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.760 for every different price point that you want. Hey, one 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.600 thing we were dying to ask you, David Rubinstein, and 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.000 it has to do the couple of stories that are 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:42.800 among the most red on the Bloomberg. One has to 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.320 do with Goldman talking about young U S workers are 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:49.160 plotting early retirements. They're, you know, thinking about getting out 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.439 a lot earlier. And then we've got another one on 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.200 the Bloomberg Big Tickets about the great resignation, about how 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.320 we've had more than twenty four million from Aple to 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.400 September here in the US alone witting their jobs. We're 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.760 seeing it. There was a global phenomenon, and in some 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.680 countries we've already seen it happening, even pre pandemic. What's 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.760 going on? Why is everybody quitting? Why are younger folks 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.639 saying I've had it? Are we missing something? What do 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.040 you make of this trend? Well, my generation basically you 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.280 after college or graduate school, you went to work, and 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.040 you worked until you're sixty or seventy, and maybe some 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.280 cases even longer than that. Younger people are saying, well, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:26.760 I can work out of my home a bit, Why 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.159 do I need to work in the traditional way? And secondly, 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:30.840 maybe I don't need to work quite as long. I 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.280 can make a fair amount of money if I do 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.920 well and retire at fifty five or sixty or even fifty. 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.440 So the world is changing. The world always changes. I'm 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.440 not surprised the pandemic has really changed the way people 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:43.800 look at the world. I know my own generation has 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.840 looked at the world much differently because we're worried more 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.200 about getting the COVID and getting UM to the point 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.600 where we can survive this because of the age group, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.359 and more and more people who are older than me, 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.360 even uh there are in my early seventies are saying 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.199 they don't want to work anymore either because they just 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.520 want to retire and and recognize that life might be 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.800 easier if they just retired. Are there concerns though about productivity? 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.960 If we see this, well, productivity it generally increases because 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:16.280 of technology. So technology tends to make productivity get much better, 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.520 some countries better than others. Yeah, product productivity is always 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.160 a challenge, but as a general rule of thumb, productivity 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:25.520 does increase even when you have fewer employees. Well, what 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.000 about them an economic or market rethink? David, Like I do, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.520