1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, 2 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for tuning in. 3 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: Let's hear, let's hear some some boo and some kashi. 4 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, bosh, you know, I remember ally 5 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: g he'd say. 6 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: I'd love to introduce our super producer, mister Max Williams. 7 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 3: Fresh off on Magnificent Recovery. I am just between these episodes, 8 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 3: gotten from sick to completely healthy. 9 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: He bounced back like some sort of whiffle ball or 10 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: a tether ball, perhaps still having the audition. 11 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: Wish you the best, Max. Please Ridiculous Historians, allow me 12 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: to reintroduce myself. My name is Ben. He joined by 13 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: as always the number one, the myth, the man, the legend, 14 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: mister Noel. 15 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 4: Brown aka nove. Yeah. 16 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: We are coming to you live and direct as we record. 17 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: It is Tuesday, November fifth, here in the just another 18 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: day here in the United States of America, a bold, 19 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: if imperfect experiment. We as you're hearing this, a couple 20 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: of other things may have changed. We we don't know 21 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: how everything's gonna work out, and we are not, you know, 22 00:01:53,640 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: a polemical show. No We are, however, very interested in 23 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: ridiculous things. And I gotta say, I don't know how 24 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: this will age you guys, but uh, politics is. 25 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 2: Kind of a sport, oh boy, is it? Ever it's 26 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: a love sports. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I actually 27 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: saw I can't remember who posted this. It was a tweeter. 28 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: Maybe it was even a tweet referencing something that somebody said, 29 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: but no, anywal it was. It was my buddy, Jason Pargin. 30 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: I don't actually know, but I really love his content 31 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: a lot. Yeah, writer John dies in the end, Yeah, exactly. 32 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: Regular guests on Daily Zeitgeist, as are yourself, as is yourself? Then, 33 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: but he said something to the effect of, like politics 34 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: has gotten this point where it's not even about actually 35 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: being informed. It's just another kind of reality show ask 36 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: sort of like pissing contest in a way of being 37 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: the quote unquote winner. And you know, I've certainly been 38 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 2: looking in the last few days for intensely non political 39 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: things to listen to. So we would like to be 40 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: that thing for you today, for sure. But I'm with 41 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: you one hundred percent. 42 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 4: Then. 43 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 5: Yeah. 44 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: The reason we're making that sports comparison in the first 45 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: place is because this, this episode, folks, started as a 46 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: an artifact of curiosity, right, and we thought it would 47 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: be a one part, one and done, you know, to 48 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: quote our friend Dan Harmon from Rick and Morty, we 49 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: thought it would be like a classic in and out, 50 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, not affecting the mythos. But we got in 51 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: a bit over our heads when we started looking at 52 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: the world's weirdest sports. We struck a chord with one 53 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: another and hopefully with you. We spent the entire first 54 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: episode just talking about buzkashi, which, by the way, I'm 55 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: still super bullish on those. 56 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 4: So are you the goat? Are you goated? 57 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 2: If you are the best at snatching the goat? 58 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: I learned so much more to just going into this 59 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: like I. So we cut a lot of the philosophical 60 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: and geopolitical implications of buzkashi, the national sport of Afghanistan. 61 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: We cut a lot of it because we thought we 62 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: were gonna have a one and done episode. And then 63 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: I think we reached the point together as a triumvirate 64 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: where we said hang on and hang on a tick, 65 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: I go on a tck. We did have some good 66 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: cartoonish British accents in there, too. 67 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 4: Oh, of course that's the best part of the show. 68 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: And just as by way of a quick reminder of 69 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: muskashi being the national sport of Afghanistan, we're in individuals 70 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 2: a top horseback by quite aggressively for a goat skin, 71 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: a goat sort of carcass type floppy thing in more 72 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 2: recent years has been replaced by maybe a more vegan alternative. 73 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a giant sort of fish bowl thing 74 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: in the middle, I guess, more of like a dog bowl, 75 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 2: and that is the goal and people are often throwing 76 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: themselves into it along with the goat skin, and it's 77 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 2: pretty wild. 78 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you made the excellent comparison to polo. You 79 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: also you also noted something I was listening back to 80 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: and I loved this you you noted, Hey, in US 81 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: football people throw around a pig skin. 82 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 4: Right. 83 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: So one of the notes that we landed on in 84 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: our previous exploration concerned the idea of perspective, the importance 85 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: of having empathy, having the ability to realize that something 86 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: may seem odd or even disturbing to an outside observer. 87 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: It might seem weird, like cough cough going to a 88 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: cricket game and not knowing what's going on. 89 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 4: Cough cough. 90 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: But but all right, all right, it's illegal for you 91 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: to ask me that. It is not illegal to ask 92 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: me that because I told you I'm a rule breaker. Yeah. Man. Also, 93 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: I have no idea what's going off with cricket. I 94 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: watch it and I clap like the distant relative adder reunion. 95 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: There's a wicket and a bowler, a sticky wicket. 96 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's different, and that's sort of like a conundrum, 97 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: which is what many of us might find ourselves in today. 98 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 2: But yeah, the wicket is the bat is the flat 99 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: bat also probably good for the people down The thing 100 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: that get the bat is what you use to hit 101 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 2: the wicket. 102 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 4: Oh, the wicket is like the t ball stand. 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: The wickets like the croquet goal. 104 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 4: Got it. 105 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: For all these years thought that the wicket would the 106 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: bat the beasts the beat, and the bowler is like 107 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: the pitcher. 108 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 4: Right, okay, okay, one thing. 109 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: You nailed it, guys. Also, cricket is tremendously popular and 110 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: may seem confusing to people unfamiliar. Also, to be honest, 111 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: baseball is probably confusing to people who are not from 112 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: the West or Japan. 113 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 4: I agree. 114 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: I will say, though, as a non sporto, I do. 115 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: Maybe it's just because it was the sport that my 116 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: mom really enjoyed. I have always found it to be 117 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: a little more understandable than football as many times, and 118 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 2: I do understand football, but it just isn't as intuitive 119 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: to me. Baseball, I think is probably partly why it's 120 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: so popular. Is a little bit more simple, you know. 121 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: I mean, once again, the stats, that's different, but the 122 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,559 Speaker 2: actual rules not too hard to wrap your head around. 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: You hit the ball, you run the basis, you try 124 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: to get all around the bases. Football there's a lot 125 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: of minutia, minutia, intricacies, pedantics, trench warfare. 126 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: You've got to be a real head to get into 127 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 4: the weeds. 128 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 3: Do you get into the trenches with the newest of 129 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: like the big sports in America, Like, it's a pretty 130 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: recent invention, late eighteen hundreds, so it's. 131 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: Been great for commercials. And yeah, you really have to 132 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: get your head in the game and hote traumatic brain injuries, 133 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: get a concussion. 134 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 4: Yeah. 135 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: And so we will not say we are judging weird sports, 136 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: will say instead that we acknowledge things can look different 137 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: from the outside and some of these endeavors that people 138 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: participate in may seem odd because you have not played 139 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: the game right, just just like any other recreational endeavor. 140 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and also anytime we kind of dig through the 141 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: annals of history and look at you know, cultural differences 142 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 2: and things that may not have aged well over time, 143 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: and maybe you're no longer you know, practiced, it's important 144 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: not to judge, you know, something too harshly for the 145 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: era that it was taking place in, and also for 146 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: you know, the part of the world, the way that 147 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: it was separated from maybe other cultures, and the way 148 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: things kind of develop in a vacuum sometimes, especially in 149 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: the in the distant past. 150 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, brother, let's go to meso America. Back in 151 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: the day, we proudly present to you a different sort 152 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: of ballgame loosely called the ball game. 153 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 2: I know it well, I mean we talked to I 154 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 2: can't remember it was it stuff that I want you 155 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: to know. It must have been recently where we were 156 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: talking about just how intuitive it is for a human 157 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 2: to see a stick on the ground and a round 158 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 2: object and just be like, how can I make this 159 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 2: into a competition, Because when we look at it now 160 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: and see sports as this Titanic industry, generating gazillions of dollars. 161 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: It's easy to lose sight of the fact that most 162 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: of it is based on very simple kind of parallel 163 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: thinking act of human beings, where it's like, I see 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: that thing, and I see that thing. Let's put them 165 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 2: together and figure out a way that we can play. 166 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: Shout out by the way to everyone who is listening 167 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: to this. On a walk and just saw a good stick. 168 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: That's a stick right there, man, that's a good stick 169 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: right there. You've got to pick it up, all right, 170 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: do the Gandalf thing? Oh man. This game, loosely called 171 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: the ballgame, was played by every Mesoamerican civilization as far 172 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: as we can tell. It was invented sometime in like 173 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: twenty five hundred to one hundred BCE, So this game 174 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: predates the story of Jesus Christ. 175 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 4: It's crazy. 176 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 2: I also, I think it's one of those things where, again, 177 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: because of the parallel thinking, those numbers may vary. There's 178 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: a really great article on Alice Obscura that dates it 179 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: back to the Olmec around fifteen hundred BC in the 180 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: central Gulf coast of. 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: Mexico, right, yeah, And the so it's tricky to understand 182 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: how BC works. The lower number on BC is closer 183 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: to the modern day, so twenty five hundred to the 184 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: Olmec period to one our BCE still very very old. 185 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: This was so popular. This was like the on the 186 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: level of soccer today or football for the rest of 187 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: the world. We don't know a ton about it, but 188 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: we do know people were super into it and it 189 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: was super disturbing. The rules of the game are still 190 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: something scholars will argue about, but it was probably kind 191 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: of like racquetball, like you had to keep the ball 192 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: in play. We do know, to your point, Noal, that 193 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: these courts where this game was played, whatever it was called, 194 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: they became similar to stadiums that you would see in 195 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: major US cities today. They were a feature of the 196 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: urban landscape. And if we look at how people tried 197 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: to play the game, then we have to look at 198 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: the descendant of the game, something called ulama. We do 199 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: know these players would strike the ball with their hips, 200 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: they may have used four arms. Occasionally, they might have bats, 201 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: and they were always trying to get the ball, whatever 202 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: it was, through a stone circle placed on either side 203 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: of the court. Pretty difficult, but I think it'll remind 204 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: a lot of us of basketball if you died when 205 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: you lost, or. 206 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: Quidditch, if you're Harry Potter, I believe they weren't they 207 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: tossing those things through like a square, circlegular kind of 208 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: goal target. 209 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: What's what's the thing you have to get in quidditch? 210 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 2: The snitch, the golden snitch it yeah, it is, Yeah, 211 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: that's the the sneach. I think it's the snitch. It's 212 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 2: like a weird little bug thing that they release and 213 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 2: that's part of the game. But then you also have 214 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: like a ball, it's more like a rugby ball that 215 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: they did, you know, on the broom top to these 216 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 2: circular goals. 217 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: In the ballgame throughout ancient meso America or early meso America. Uh, 218 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: the ball was solid rubber and could weigh as much 219 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: as nine pounds. Yeah, so people are beefy four arms 220 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: for them, yeah, or broken four arms people are people 221 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: are fighting. The The only real thing, the only real 222 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: consistent rule we know is that the two teams had 223 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: to fight each other to get the ball through one 224 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: of the rings on the court. And if someone got 225 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 1: an a goal broken, if someone you know, knocked their 226 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: forearm or got hit in the head, didn't matter. 227 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 4: I mean, you might argue that was a feature, not 228 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: a bug, you know. 229 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 2: I mean, this really is tantamount to the kind of 230 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: blood sport we see with gladiator battles. Not to mention 231 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: the religious implications of this band. You found some really 232 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: cool stuff about how this was part of lore, like 233 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: the idea of this sport being played between members of 234 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 2: you know, the human race and like lords of the underworld. 235 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: Ah, yes, this is true. In Mesoamerican mythology, the ballgame 236 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: functioned as an important socio religious ritual. Like you were saying, Noel, 237 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: it's the story of the hero twins Hondapuh and vocal 238 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: on the pull. The part of my pronunciation, guy is 239 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: my key chase pretty loose these days. This is a 240 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: pair of awesome dudes who super pissed off Shibbalba, which 241 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: is the underworld and the god thereof. 242 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: This is in Mayan culture, to my understanding, and it 243 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: comes for you can read a lot of this if 244 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: you want to go a little deeper. I think you 245 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: can find this sort of creation myth in a tome 246 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 2: called the popol Vu, which is also a really interesting 247 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: kind of gothy post punk band. I always really liked 248 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: this name and did not know where it came from. 249 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 2: And it is a band called popole Vu. 250 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: Way No Way. I got to tell you man. You know, 251 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: I had a life before the podcasting stuff, and I 252 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: lived in Central America for a time, and the culture, 253 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: the ancient culture there still persist. I have never watched 254 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: the game in person. But as as you note, there 255 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: is religious significance to this. Uh, there is social significance 256 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: to this if you if you follow the mythology. These 257 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: two brothers, Haun and the club who were you know 258 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: again heroes. Uh, they were tricked into descending toward the 259 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: underworld and then they had to play this game. And 260 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: because one of the hero twins lost the game, he 261 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: had his head cut off. 262 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 4: The ultimate penalty. 263 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Oh. 264 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 4: It is to backtrack really quickly to a previous tangent. 265 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 4: Popol Vu. 266 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: The band is actually more of like an electronic German 267 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: kraft rock band, which is not a term of derision. 268 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: It is a genre and the folks in that part 269 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: of the world were it proudly bands like Craftwork and 270 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: NOI so do check out popol Vu. I actually am 271 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 2: going to make a note to myself. This is one 272 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: that I'm not super very well versed in. 273 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: Also, while we're at it, everybody look forward to our 274 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: future two part episode on women in electronic. 275 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 4: Thanks Ben, Yeah, I'm working on that one. 276 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: It's a very near and dear topic to me, so 277 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 2: we should have that one out in a week or two. 278 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: But sorry, Ben, decapitation. We're bearing the lead here, or 279 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: maybe we're not. I just derailed the lead. But this 280 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: was a common penalty for being the loser. And then 281 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: I got to follow up question, was this a team sport? 282 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 2: Were there entire teams that were executed as the results 283 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: of losing? 284 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: Yes, there were teams. They were not always consenting participants. 285 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 4: Ah, because like the Gladiator connection. 286 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: So imagine if you're playing racquetball with a team, right, 287 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: and you have to you have to try to get 288 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: this heavy rubber ball through this stone goal, and you 289 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: know that if you don't accomplish the win, you might 290 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: be sacrificed. In at least a few instances, the ballgame 291 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: was a proxy for war, like warring kingdoms would say, hey, 292 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: let's settle this on the court. 293 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: That could be in issues of succession, It could be 294 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: issues of territory, you know, disputes over territory and oftentimes 295 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: to your point about non consensual, you know, participation in 296 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: this game really serious connection to the gladiator thing, because 297 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: oftentimes slaves or captives, prisoners of war were forced to 298 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 2: fight for their lives in this competitive sport. 299 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: Yes, and shout out to everybody who just immediately thought 300 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: of Apocalypto. Do you remember that film? I think you know. 301 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 2: I never saw it because I think Mel Gibson's an asshole. 302 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 2: But I heard it's really good and that it actually 303 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 2: is pretty interesting, and I don't know is it problematic. 304 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 4: I don't remember hearing that aspect about it. 305 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 2: I know he's done some problematic things in terms of 306 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: his depictions of indigenous people. 307 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 4: But did you enjoy the film? 308 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: I did. There is no instance of the ballgame in it, 309 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: but there is an instance of like will we see 310 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: a depiction of trafficking, of human kidnapping and the gamification 311 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: of prisoners of war and refugees, So there is. I 312 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: don't think this will spoil it. There is a scene 313 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: wherein some prisoners are cut free and they're allowed to 314 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: run for their freedom while the guys who captured them 315 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: sort of gamble on whether or not they can shoot 316 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: them in the back. Oh yeah, brutal stuff. Yeah. 317 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: And moving to a little bit of a different culture, 318 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: we have the Aztecs as well, who carried on this 319 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 2: tradition very very very similarly. There are reports and there 320 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: is historical evidence that they would actually sometimes use the 321 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: decapitated heads of the losers of certain of these bouts 322 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: as stand ins for a ball instead ballgame. 323 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 324 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: Just imagine, right, the ballgame is at its height of popularity, 325 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: you get captured by some enemy force and they say, hey, 326 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: we're not going to kill you just yet, but if 327 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: you want to stay alive, you have to play this game, 328 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: and then they toss you a decapitated. 329 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: And the article that I referenced earlier by Monica Petriz 330 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: from Atlas Obscura does mention that the main historical evidence 331 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 2: we have this or in like etchings and imagery on 332 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 2: vases and different pieces of pottery like that. So you know, 333 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 2: it's kind of it leaves a bit up to the 334 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: imagination whether these were meant to be like metaphorical depictions 335 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: or whatever creative liberties were being taken, but it's not 336 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: out of the question that this actually did happen. And 337 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: Spanish conquerors or Spanish. I guess explorers have reported watching 338 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 2: this game being played and at the very least described 339 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: absolutely brutal injuries, including just just decimated bones that have 340 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: to be injuries that have to be lanced, and some 341 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: people that didn't even survive. 342 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, you're fighting for your life. I 343 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: don't know if we want to I don't know if 344 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: we want to queue up that that al Pacino's speech 345 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: from any given Sunday. Do you remember that one? Gosh, 346 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: what was the what's the big? 347 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 4: The big? The tagle? 348 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: It's like how you have to fight for every inch? 349 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, it's a good movie. I like that Oliver 350 00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 4: Stone movie. 351 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: I'm not even really big sports movie fan, but was 352 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: a big Oliver Stone fan back in the day. He 353 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: sort of had some stinkers in there, but he's got 354 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: some good ones too. 355 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: Wait what stinkers did he f? 356 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 4: You know he had uh. 357 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: Oh Kona the Barbarian. 358 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 2: Well, I think he was a producer on that. I 359 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 2: don't think he directed that, he routed. 360 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 4: He did, He did have something to do with writing it. 361 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: He was more of like a kind of a schlocky, 362 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: you know, Hollywood scribe. 363 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 4: But you know, a lot of people really hate natural 364 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 4: born killers. I like it a lot. 365 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: I guess what I'm thinking of stinkers. I was thinking 366 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 2: of maybe I don't know Nixon. And then some of it, 367 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: like w you know, World Trade Center he did that 368 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: was a little distasteful. The sequel to Wall Street Money 369 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 2: Never Sleeps not regarded particularly highly. And also Savages I 370 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 2: remember being not great, but man some of his early stuff. 371 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: I think Platoon is up there for me with some 372 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: of the best boar films ever, although some people rank it. 373 00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 4: A little lower. 374 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: Well canonical very much as also would love to see Oliver, 375 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: if you're listening, would love to see your depiction of 376 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: the ballgame courts. So the ballgame courts were part of 377 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: a city's holy precinct. This is what This is our 378 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: number one clue indicating that this game was more than 379 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: a game for the people involved at the time. I 380 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: want to correct one of the things we said earlier. 381 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: Each of the walls had a large vertical stone ring, 382 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: and it was set high up enough that you couldn't 383 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: touch it with your hand right, You'd have to you'd 384 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: have to jump. And we know that the court itself 385 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: was kind of in the shape of a capital letter 386 00:23:54,920 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: I English. So if you picture that, it's like with 387 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: like sort of walls barriers on each side and then 388 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: a long kind of I guess field of play connecting 389 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: those two like a yeah, my old school stuff makes 390 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: me think of it as a kill space, like I 391 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: would not want to be in. You you never want 392 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: to be in that part of the capital. 393 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 2: I I'm sure you don't, and I bet you. There 394 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: was plenty of blood on the on the sand or 395 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 2: on the turf or whatever. And by the way, the 396 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: most famous Oliver Stone stinker was Alexander Fortune. Favors The 397 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 2: Bold starring Val Kilmer and what's his face, Colin Farrell. 398 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: I haven't seen it, but it is it is universally 399 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: despised by even by the. 400 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 4: People that were in it. So that's the one I 401 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 4: was thinking. 402 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: Colin Ferrell's been doing some pretty impressive stuff right now. 403 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: I love this. 404 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 2: Oh it's so good. And I just I really, I 405 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 2: really liked that show Sugar that he was in. It's 406 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: sort of some people didn't care for it, but he 407 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 2: plays sort of like a hard boiled. 408 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 4: Kind of Raymond Chandler type of tech with a secret. 409 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 2: I enjoyed him on Apple TV check out if you 410 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: haven't seen it didn't really get much love, Like a 411 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: lot of those Apple TV shows, kind of seemed. 412 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 4: To not be promoted at all. I don't understand it. 413 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 2: Like slow horses, y'all, don't sleep on slow horses. That's 414 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: at least fabulous. 415 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Did you know Gary Oldman is in that? 416 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks This is one of the rare Gary 417 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: Oldmans where he pretty much looks like Gary Oldman, but 418 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: he looks like he looks like gutter old Men in 419 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 2: this one. 420 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: That's true, But we we digress. We want you to know, uh, 421 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: there was immense religious and social significance to the idea 422 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: of the ball game. If you look at Maya sites 423 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 1: in particular, you will see some researchers arguing that to 424 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: the audience, the ball was symbolically the sun, and the 425 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: court itself was the underworld. So can we save daylight 426 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: from the dark. That's a very powerful thing for an audience. 427 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: It's the ultimate battle, you know, the battle between light 428 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: and dark, good and evil. And we always talk about 429 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: in those days, how much sense it makes that there 430 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: was all of this worship of deities in the hopes 431 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 2: that they would, you know, turn the sun on again 432 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: the next day. 433 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 4: You know, it would be cool if you guys could 434 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 4: maybe do that. 435 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: But there were also back to the Olmecs, massive stone 436 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: sculptures of various versions of depictions of the game. 437 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 4: But some of the ones that I think are the 438 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 4: most interesting are. 439 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 2: These heads that are found oftentimes near the homes of 440 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 2: the chiefs. 441 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 4: You know, because this was like a massive cultural thing. 442 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: Check me on this. I don't know the Olmec stuff. Well, 443 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: I believe in Maya it would be a hatcha a 444 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: representation of the human head. 445 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: I think that's right. 446 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, particular an Omec head as found in a parquet 447 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 2: Musso la Venta in Mexico, and it depicts this person 448 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: with really dope stretched lobes, but also with something resembling 449 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 2: what we would think of as a helmet, like like 450 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: one of the you're going to be what is it 451 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: leathernecks about like old school football, And they used to 452 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 2: have those literal kind of leather little caps on, very 453 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 2: much looking like that, but probably didn't save them too 454 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: much from like having their bones splintered into powder. 455 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they got their role rocked. As we used 456 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: to say. Another question we might have if we are 457 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: playing the ballgame, or if we have to participate in 458 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: it is not just what happens if I lose, it's 459 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: what happens if I win. You don't just save your life. 460 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: You apparently receive trophies. One of those trophies would be, 461 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: like we were talking about just a second ago, nol 462 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: a hotch a representation of a human head with a 463 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: handle on it, and you could use it. Is it cool? 464 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 4: I mean, is it cool? What do you mean? 465 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: Like? 466 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: It's that you carry it around as a flex like 467 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 2: a like a handbag. 468 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 4: Sees it seems a little unwieldy, isn't it. 469 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 5: So? 470 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: Imagine you were kidnapped by some aggressive, bellicose civilization. You 471 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: are a prisoner of war, a refugee. They throw you 472 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: into this court with people you don't know from a 473 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: can of paint, and they say you have to play 474 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: this game or we will kill you. And they give 475 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: you a human. 476 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 4: Head to play with. 477 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: Right and then, because you didn't die, right as your 478 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: shins are broken and you're laying there on the ground, 479 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: they say, you won, and we got you a treat. 480 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: And here it is. It's a carved version of a 481 00:28:59,040 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: human head. 482 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 2: See you're saying it might be a little triggering to 483 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: the people who've been freshly traumatized. 484 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: I think it wouldn't be the best day. 485 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 4: I guess maybe not, but I don't know. 486 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: But you got to imagine too, that they would have 487 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 2: kind of ringers, you know, like the top players, you know, 488 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: who were known, and they would make sure just like 489 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 2: in the gladiator battles, you would have your you know, 490 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: like decked out mad Max looking fellows that would absolutely 491 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: obliterate the lesser armed, you know, slaves or captives who 492 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: were thrown into the ring. I just have to imagine 493 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: that there maybe was a culture of like, you know, 494 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: top players the way we think of celebrity athletes here 495 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 2: in the United States or around the world. 496 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: And so we find ourselves, yet again on a continuing journey. 497 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: The ball game as we know it is not currently 498 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: practiced officially today currently and officially or doing a lot 499 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: of work in that sentence. 500 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 2: But in Meso America, you know, in this part of 501 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: the world, soccer is king of course, yes, huge, I 502 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 2: mean it's absolutely you know, a huge, hugely influential and 503 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: popular sports. So I mean, in my mind, I always 504 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: pictured this game from the little I knew about it 505 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 2: before doing this episode as resembling soccer more closely. So 506 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 2: it's interesting to see that, you know, when when you're 507 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: talking about using your hips or your elbows, I'm also 508 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 2: picturing the way soccer players can like pass a ball 509 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 2: between their feet, you know, or juggle a ball kind 510 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: of or your head do move with their heads. So 511 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: maybe there were some things that it had in common 512 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 2: with soccer. 513 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: You also have to be very careful with your lower 514 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: limbs considering the weight and the speed of that rubber 515 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: ball we would rubber. 516 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 2: Interestingly, by the way, I don't think we mentioned that 517 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: this part of the world is where rubber plants. A 518 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: lot of rubber imports come from things like latex, you know, 519 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: from naturally occurring trees, So they would have had access 520 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 2: to this raw material and used it to make these 521 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: balls that would, you know, kind of have a little 522 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: bit of give you when you kicked him around or 523 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 2: batted him around. 524 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: And then later Henry Ford got so pissed off about 525 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: pay for rubber Cat's right he started his own ill 526 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: fated town in Brazil called ford Landia. 527 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Ben I do remember this vaguely either 528 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: from an episode of this podcast or our sister podcast 529 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: stuff that. 530 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 4: I want you to know, But can you kind of 531 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 4: remind us how that all went down. 532 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: It's a true story, and perhaps not one the Jedi 533 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: will tell you. Ford ford Landia was to be confused 534 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: with Portlandia, not to be confused. Yeah, and that's a 535 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: great note. Ford Landia was created in nineteen twenty eight 536 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: by Henry Ford, wherein he tried to make a Norman 537 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: Rockwell painting come to life and spoiler he failed. 538 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 4: I mean, you can't win them all, Henry four. 539 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, town is still around if you want to visit there. 540 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: It's not super big. There are like three thousand people 541 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: there as of twenty eighteen or so. 542 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 4: Got it? 543 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: Okay, maybe we should schedule a ridiculous field trip. 544 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 4: One of these days. I would love to check it out. 545 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 2: Seems like it might be a little Sultan Sea esque, 546 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 2: maybe a little like an abandoned ghost kind of vibes. 547 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I did. 548 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: I did want to maybe wrap with just one more 549 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: interesting legend. A famous bout of ballgame took place at 550 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: the Aztec Capitol and I'm gonna do my best here 551 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 2: of Tanaktatslam. I think that's right between the Aztec king. 552 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 2: Here's where I'm going to feel miserably march Chozoma, Motechkozoma, 553 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: Zukoosko yeah x o c O y o t z 554 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 2: and against the King of Text Coco, the King of 555 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: text Coco had predicted. We mentioned this, but another use of. 556 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 4: This was as a way of predicting the future. 557 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 2: The King of text Toto had predicted that motuck Zoma's 558 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 2: kingdom would fall, and the game was essentially a way 559 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: of testing him on his prophecy. Kind of interesting, sort 560 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: of makes it a self fulfilling prophecy in. 561 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: A way, right, Yeah, it's like trial by ordeal, yes, 562 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: in parts of that try combat of course combat. 563 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you mean my champion, then if I was, if 564 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 2: I was called to trial by combat, thanks, Bud, I 565 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: do the same for you. And it is recorded here. 566 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 2: It's part of the official record. So you can't know 567 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 2: take these back seats. Are you in a situation now yet? 568 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 4: Ben? 569 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: But you never know, You never know what could happen, 570 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 2: especially given you know, potential changes in regime. 571 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 4: Oh geez. 572 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. As ever, we also we also have to acknowledge 573 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: this proves a larger This proves a larger philosophical point 574 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: about the nature of sports even today in many sporting areas. God, 575 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: I sound like the old uncle at the reunion. 576 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: Come children enjoined us in the sporting area for a 577 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 2: friendly for a friendly contest. 578 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 5: Hello, fellow children. I understand there is a pig skin, 579 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 5: which is a matter of debate. Yes, yeah, So what 580 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 5: we see though, is that the nature of sport, the 581 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 5: nature of play, and I love the word you mentioned 582 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 5: in our previous episode, the nature of sportso is really 583 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 5: more than just messing around. 584 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: It is meant to carry certain sociological or cultural mores, 585 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: Like we're talking about religion, we're talking about divination, we're 586 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 1: talking about human death. Also, even now, any sports fan 587 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: can tell you supporting your favorite team becomes a lot 588 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: like having a religion. 589 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 4: Right. 590 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 2: Do you know the comedian Kyle Oh geez, what the 591 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 2: heck is his last name? He was the weird SNL 592 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: guy Moony. Kyle Mooney has this incredible sketch from his 593 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 2: early YouTube days where he's just this dude wearing a 594 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 2: jacket that has all of the different types of sports 595 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: balls on it and he's just. 596 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 6: Talking about it's my team, we gotta support our team, 597 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 6: and the guy his roommate's like, what are you talking 598 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 6: What team are you talking about which, and then he's 599 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 6: describing these very amorphous rules and he's just talking about Bengels. 600 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 4: It was a bad call, Bengels. You gotta win the game. 601 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 4: They call the points anyway, It's very fun. 602 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: Let's also point this out speaking of points. Look, a 603 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: lot of the stuff we understand about the ballgame now 604 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: comes from the Spaniards who encroached into the area. 605 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 2: They're the ones who described some of the horrific injuries 606 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 2: that could take place. 607 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: And indeed attempted to vilify and dehumanize the civilizations that 608 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: they encountered. So we have to remember that. To our 609 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,839 Speaker 1: earlier point, we also wanted to give you a dope 610 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: beat the step two. There are more weird sports or 611 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: ridiculous sports that we will explore together in future episodes. 612 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: One that I thought would be super fun for us 613 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: to try is fishermen jousting. But that's it was. It 614 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 1: was a real thing in the Nile in ancient Egypt. Dude, 615 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, uh, you would have. 616 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 2: And I think you're in denial about the existence of 617 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 2: this sport. 618 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:26,720 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh so, uh, these two teams of boatmen 619 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: would squeaar off. They would have their hands and feet 620 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: in play. The idea was you knocked the other team 621 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: off balance. Two boats going together and you're pushing each other, 622 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: you're smacking each other. The issue was, you know that 623 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: hippos and crocodiles are in the nile, so if you 624 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: if your boat got pushed, you might get at no 625 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: way at by a croc Yes way to. 626 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 4: Sound like fine, I'll take a pass on that one. 627 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: So I think just more, I think we can agree 628 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: that sports in general historically are a little more violent 629 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: than the sports we see today. 630 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, well yeah, I mean, like you know, we. 631 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 2: Talked about gramatic brain injuries and issues. You know, of 632 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 2: course there's some brutal sports like boxing and UFC fighting 633 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 2: and all of that that are kind of holdovers in 634 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 2: a way or remnants, but they're still, by the standards 635 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: that we're talking about, pretty sanitized. These boats, by the way, 636 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: Ben and Fisherman and jousting, were they made of like 637 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 2: papyrus as it seemed like the best of material to 638 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 2: build a seafaring vessel out of. 639 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, make it interesting, I guess, so sort of like. 640 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: The pot was it the pumpkin giant pumpkin kayaking. 641 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, how long is that. 642 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 2: Thing gonna flow? That is I mean, that's the one 643 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 2: more charming, probably not as violent. 644 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: But a little less dangerous, fewer hippopotamus involved. 645 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 4: But can we end on a really silly one? 646 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: I just just the name alone, for some reason makes 647 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: me think of futurama. I don't know why the idea 648 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,239 Speaker 2: of worm charming like this, It seems so low stakes. 649 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: I love it very much. It's competitive worm charming possible. 650 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 2: I love that you mentioned this because it's it's like dowsing, 651 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 2: but for worms. So instead of finding water, worm charming 652 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 2: is the method of somehow summoning earthworms from the ground 653 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 2: and then. 654 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 4: A hypnotizing them correct. 655 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,800 Speaker 1: Maybe like steak charming. Okay, okay, you know it's also 656 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: called worm grunting or worm fifth lanes. 657 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: You've heard I've heard of wormunt. I have heard of 658 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 2: worm grunt, yes, sir, I certainly have. That is actually 659 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 2: what I heard it referred to as initially. But it 660 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 2: is very popular in the UK. I think it started 661 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,839 Speaker 2: pretty recently nineteen eighty in Williston, Cheshire, and the world 662 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,439 Speaker 2: record I believe, as in the hand of a woman 663 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 2: named Sophie Smith, a ten year old, a young woman. 664 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 2: How many worms did she charm? 665 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 3: Yeah? 666 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: Also why did she make it competitive, folks? Just for funzies. 667 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 1: There is some science though to worm charming. It evolves 668 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: a vibration of the soil. Oh, okay, and I'll answer 669 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: my own question. 670 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 2: It was five hundred and sixty seven worms that young 671 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 2: Sophie Smith. 672 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: That's at summons. 673 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 2: That's a lot of worms to summon from the earth. 674 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 2: I'm impressed, young Sophie Smith. A job, Sophie. Indeed, we 675 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 2: talked about hobbyhorsing already last time, which was a delight. 676 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, Ben, I think I think we're probably at 677 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 2: the end of our second part on History's Oddest Sports. 678 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: Yes, and we continue our exploration, folks. Thanks so much 679 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,240 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Big thanks to our super producer mister 680 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: Max Williams. If you are wondering why are you guys 681 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: not taking about more Western sports in the modern day, 682 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: Well get thee to your podcast platform of choice. Subscribe. 683 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh what am I supposed to say? Like from the 684 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: YouTube days, Smash that like button and subscribe because we 685 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,800 Speaker 1: have an amazing episode coming up for you, all about 686 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,280 Speaker 1: weird stuff that happened on baseball fields. 687 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and some major malfunctions involving retractable roofs. Tune in, 688 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,760 Speaker 2: folks in the meantime. Huge thanks to super producer Max 689 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 2: Williams and Alex Williams who composed this theme. 690 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our number one commissioner of the 691 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,720 Speaker 1: Mesoamerican Ballgame, Jonathan Strickland aka the Quist. Big big thanks 692 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: to aj Bahamas Jacobs, who is just gosh, just the 693 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: coolest cucumber, you know what I mean. 694 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 4: Indeed, that's why he's like a Bahama breeze. There it 695 00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 4: is there. 696 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 2: Take sure him in a hammock at all times. 697 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 4: I think he mentioned that as well. 698 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: Gabe Luzier, Christopher hasiotis Eve's Jeff Coates here in spirit? 699 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:08,839 Speaker 1: Who else? 700 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 4: Who else? 701 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: Who? 702 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:10,280 Speaker 4: Jeez? 703 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 2: I sure love to thank you, Ben, my warm charmer 704 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 2: whatever that means. 705 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 4: Do with that, wis you will? 706 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: I'd call it dhr Man. 707 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 4: We'll see you next time, folks. 708 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 709 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.