1 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: All right, welcome in It's the All Ball Podcast. I'm 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: Doug Gottlieb and Danny Tarkanian is our guest for a player, 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: uh now a politician also the lawyer for his late father, 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: tark the Shark gets a new book out and it's 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: really kind of trying to tell uh what he believes 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: are the truths about Jerry Tarkani in the Hall of 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: Fame coach, the National Championship coach at U n o 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: V and put to put the rest any of the 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: other people's narratives. So he'll join us upcoming in the 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: pot Um. I want to point this out about Jayson 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: Tatum who eviscerated the Utah Jazz after having what was 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: it forty two against the Lakers on Sunday. It's pretty impressive, 13 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: right Um. Some of it has helped out by not 14 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: having Kemba Walker more opportunities. Some of it is he's 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: coming into his own and he plays for a guy 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: and Brad Stevens, who it's funny Brad's teams were just 17 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: tough as hell when he played at Butler, but he 18 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: has found a way while coaching in the NBA to 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: really um make his superstars or his best player, feel 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: like a superstar. I mean, think about what he did 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: for Isaiah Thomas. Isaiah Thomas was a really good scoring 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, back up sometimes starting guard. You have twy 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: nine game playing with Brad, Like, if you can score, 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: you're gonna love playing for Brad because he gives you 25 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: freedom and he tries to create mismatches for you. So 26 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: some of it's playing for Brad, some of it's no Kemba, 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: some of it is Jason coming into his own. But golly, 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: has he been impressive? Huh? And it's funny, like think 29 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: of how they got him, how they got Jalen Brown, 30 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: you know how they got Kyrie even. You know, that's 31 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: all part of trading way the Big Three, and I remember, 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, trade deadline last year. There were people that say, like, 33 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: trade him for Anthony Davis along with the package of guys. 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: And they're like, um no, no, not even a little bit. 35 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: And if you want to question Danny Ainge, he's he's 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: made some mistakes. They all do, but one wasn't the 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: Draft day trade which they moved down from the number 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: one overall spot got another pick and got Jayson Tatum 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: at three. What what an unbelievable Draft day trade, really 40 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: really remarkable. I think the Celtics have a shot. You know, again, 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: they've gotta be fully healthy right now with no Kemba, 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: but I think they have a shot. I'm Toronto is 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: probably the best team doesn't have I don't think Pascal 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: Siakam is there yet? Is there yet? Um the Sixers, 45 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: it's just they have a great you know, first five 46 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: verse six, but the lack of health, the Simmons, the 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: lack of shooting with with Simmons, I'm not sure coaching 48 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: wise that they're completely all in on Brett Brown and 49 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: and it makes it honestly worse when Embiid has his 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: best night of the year when Sims doesn't play, because 51 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna need Simmons to win. Only can and bid 52 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: b and bead with Simmons. I'm not totally convinced Milwaukee 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: is perfect. You know, they win games by blowouts. Everything 54 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: is in transition and the postseason does usually become about 55 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: a half court game. And we're kidding ourselves that we 56 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: think that the Greek Freak is there as a shooter. Miami, now, Philly, 57 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: maybe Toronto. I think the Celtics have it is could 58 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: have shouted at anybody to make it out of the East. 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: Let's discuss one seeds here. One seeds in college basketball, 60 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: which I find to be fascinating and as much as 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: you could say, well it's I used to get when 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: I worked at CBS or at ESPN, people would say, 63 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: why do you guys talk about one seed so much? Well, 64 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: the reason is, with the exception of one game, excyption 65 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: one game, the one seed has always advanced to the 66 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: second round. The point being it's essentially a bye. It's 67 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: not a vibe, it's essentially a bye. I do think 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: that Kansas has worked themselves into ah almost locked status 69 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: as a one seed, right almost. They haven't lost since January, 70 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: thirteen games in a row, right, and beating Baylor at Baylor, 71 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: beating West Virginia at West Virginia. And I don't think 72 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: West Virginia is great. I don't think the Big twelve 73 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: is great, but the the consistency and level of consistent 74 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: dominance is super super impressive. UM. I assume they beat 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: k State at k State because they always have what 76 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: they've done all but one at three times or something 77 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: made four times. Um. Then they'll beat TCU at home 78 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens in Texas. Tech was supposed 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: to do that game on radio. Now I'm doing Stanford Oregon, 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: which also might be for a PAC twelve title. But 81 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: I think the Kansas is pretty well locked as a 82 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: one seed. So what's left Gonzaga. I think Gonzaga is 83 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: gonna be a one seed. They've dominated St. Mary's. I 84 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: know they lost by U and lost handily. Now they 85 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: have Sat. Mary's again at home, which, assume they win, 86 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: can only help them. If they were to lose one 87 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: more game in the West Coast Conference tournament, then obviously 88 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: you start getting sketch about and you're like, well, they 89 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: got beat by Michigan, they beat Oregon, and over time 90 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: there are other winds like North Carolina and Arizona and 91 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: Washington aren't as impressive. I still think Gonzaga ends up 92 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: getting a one seat. And that's where it kind of 93 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: gets really curious afterwards. Do you go with Dayton, do 94 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: you go with Baylor? Right? Does the Big twelve, which 95 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: is down, get to one seats? I think the answer 96 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: is possibly San Diego State has to win out let's do. 97 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: It's not their fault that the league has been down. 98 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: They have been playing it well. And I don't know 99 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: how many people know they've been playing without Nathan Mensa 100 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: for as long as they playing without Nathan Mensa. And 101 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: if they were to get Nathan Mensa back, well, then 102 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: that would that to me, would change how we look 103 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: at them, because he's that good. But I I think 104 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: it just comes down to who wins out, who wins 105 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: out between them and Um, I did think that for 106 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: there was a period of time. Um, there's a period time. 107 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: Nathan means, by the way, has an outside shot of 108 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: returning this season. If he comes back, you know, he's 109 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: got to play a game by my estimation before the 110 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: n c A Tournament, I think that that's their starting center. 111 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: If you don't think that helps them, you know, six 112 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: ft nine shop locker energy guy doesn't require a lot 113 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,559 Speaker 1: of I think Maryland has a has an outside shot 114 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: to be one seed as well. You're like Maryland, Yeah, 115 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: I know they lost to Ohio State in the road, 116 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: and they came from seventeen down to beat Minnesota. Look 117 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: at the rest of their schedule. If they can beat 118 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: Michigan State, Rutgers on the road, hard place to play, 119 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: and Michigan at home. If they did that. Remember, they've 120 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,559 Speaker 1: already beaten, uh beating Iowa once, lost to Iowa, lost 121 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: to Wisconsin. These are tough road games lost to Seaton Hall. 122 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: Seaton Hall should be in this conversation of one or 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: two seats, but recent falters have caused them to fall 124 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: off of that discussion. Um, but I think Maryland and 125 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: their consistency, with the exception obviously of the Ohio State 126 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: loss is a big reason why. And the road wins 127 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: over Indiana, the road win over Minute Soda, the road 128 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: win over Illinois, the road win at Michigan State, those 129 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: are just too big for Maryland to not be considered. 130 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: Florida State also in that discussion, right, Florida State did 131 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: lose the Duke on the road, I did lose the 132 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: Virginia on the road kind of similar, but they've swept 133 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: Louisville and they only have Notre Dame on the road 134 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: at Clemson and Boston College left. Florida State will be 135 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: right in that discussion. Like their first game of the year, 136 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: they lost to Pittsburgh. He almost crossed that thing out. 137 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: Why are you playing a league game November six? So dumb, 138 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: so dumb. But the lost Indian on the road hurts them. 139 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug 140 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific on 141 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio ah app 142 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: dnny Um, thanks so much for joining us. What made 143 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: you decide to write the book? Well, first of all, 144 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: it's great to join your Doug in a followed your 145 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: career and look how successful you've been. Uh. I wanted 146 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: to clarify and clear up some of the conceptions people 147 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: had about my father when he was co You know, 148 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: a lot of things that was written people that really 149 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,559 Speaker 1: have a chance to beat with him. And then also 150 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: with all the things that have been exposed with the 151 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: empty trade now and the people understanding better how the 152 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: organization works. I thought the timing was really good. The 153 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: biggest misconception about your dad is what well you know, 154 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: his battles with the n C tway and the way 155 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: they portrayed him. I went through the book. You know, 156 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: as I mentioned in the book, I was a big 157 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: part of his career in many guard regards from his 158 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: ball boy to former player, former assistant coach, from most importantly, 159 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: I was his attorney and a lot of the n 160 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: C trade issues and I went through all the documents 161 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: that I got from the trial and from the hearings 162 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: and uh their own internal documents and laid out exactly 163 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: you know what the NT trade claim my thought did 164 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: and and it was just completely different than the perception 165 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: that's been out there, you know, and all the investigations, 166 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: and you know how many of them has been and 167 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: how long it's done. It was sixteen full official investigations 168 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: on my dad's thirty one in your career. They never 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: charged or found a violation of giving large of money, 170 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: given a car of anything of those substantial value. There 171 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: were some academic issues which I went through and show 172 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: that they weren't true. The facts were completely against it. 173 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: But talking about just the biggest problem we have in 174 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: sports is buying players. And my father was a big 175 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: um advocate out there saying that that that those that 176 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: needs to stop. You need to have regulations that stop 177 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: paying players large sums of money and tight them to 178 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: come to the school. But at the same time you 179 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: need to have rules that allow coaches to treat place 180 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: you mainly allowed it to be um able to go 181 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: to school and with other classmates. Are there basically the 182 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: level of the same level economic standard that the other 183 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: kids are. You understand the n C Trade rule as 184 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: a kid um coming from the inner city that doesn't 185 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: have any money that many times giving part of their 186 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: scholarship checks back to their parents or mother to take 187 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: care of their kids. You know, they don't have money 188 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: to go out on a date. They don't have money 189 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: to buy new clothes to go to a movie. Um. 190 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, how do to even get 191 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: out from one part of the country to another? Uh 192 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: Jerry ten school? Um, the n C Trade doesn't allowed 193 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the school to pay for that. My father spoke out 194 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: about that. I thought it was unjust thought it was unfair. 195 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: These rules were by the n C Trade werebate in 196 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: the nineties sixties when the participants in sports were more 197 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: influenced families that can afford paying these types of things. 198 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: But from the sixties on it's been mostly the poorer 199 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: inner city African American kids who can't afford these things. 200 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: And my father felt felt those rules were in just. 201 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: He admitted he broke those rules and UH had a 202 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: long fight with the n C Trade and that they 203 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: portrayed him as being, you know, this big cheated that 204 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: had all these big payoffs and that just isn't the case. Well, 205 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that you know, some of 206 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: those things have changed right now, You've always been able 207 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: to get a pell grant um for for guys. But 208 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: but Doug, if you I didn't even realize this, and 209 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 1: I laid out of the book. Uh, in the early seventies, 210 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: whatever you apply your gods for a pell grant, the 211 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 1: n C Trade offset that with their scholarship check and 212 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: so a hundred percent offset. They the eight they offset 213 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: at seventy I think now they allowed them to keep 214 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: the full pell grand. But during a big portion of 215 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: my father's career they could even keep the pelgrand the offset, 216 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: and it took that money. Why would you do that 217 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: to the kids that needed at the most? I don't know, 218 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know the thinking at the time. 219 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: I do know that you add in now costs of 220 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: attendance and so many of the other benefits, and I 221 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: think many of the things that that that people like 222 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: your father, I know, Sam Gilbert also at u c 223 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: L as famous booster, kind of fought for right, which 224 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: is the hey, you bring a kid out from one 225 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: environment to the environment of a college campus. If you 226 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: won't really want them to succeed. You gotta, you know, 227 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: you gotta find a way to allow him to be 228 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: a real student, not just not not just an athlete. Um, 229 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: I would say the other part with you know, Lloyd 230 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: Daniels and maybe later on Chris Herron, those guys and 231 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: what befell them during and post their career playing for 232 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: your dad, I think that cast a negative light on 233 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: what there were so many other positive lights. Is that fair? Yeah, well, 234 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: certainly we're Rooyd Daniels and Lord Daniels. Still, I think 235 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: my father very clearly would regretted he had did um Looyd, 236 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: and we've known Roy now for even after he left 237 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: you and l V under the the arrest they when 238 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: who're trying to buy drugs. He's my dad had stayed 239 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: in contact with him, and Lloyd's unnaviill nice job in 240 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: his life. But but that was was not a good 241 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: move on my father's part, and I laid that out 242 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: of there in the book. But Chris harr And, I'm 243 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: not sure why you would say that wasn't that was 244 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: a bad thing on my father's part. Chris was a kid, 245 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: great kid, and actually right now he's sounding an incredible 246 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: turn around in his life. Yeah, and you know, and 247 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: he credits my father was helping him get to the 248 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: point that he did at least uh to get through 249 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: college and have the opportunities that he's had. Um And 250 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: there was no mc tory violations of Chris Harry him not. 251 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: Chris made mistakes off the court and it cost him 252 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: nearly in his life and maybe maybe then it's maybe 253 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: then it's a perception, right because he got caught with 254 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: he had it was coke at at at Boston College. 255 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: And look, I mean I wasn't drugs for me, but 256 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: I got in trouble that I would say. The difference, 257 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: and this is more perception, is that that your dad. Look, 258 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: your dad was about you know, did could you come 259 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: up and play? Right? Would you want to compete and play? 260 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: And you know, Chris had had a drug problem that 261 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: was was not addressed at the time. And you know, 262 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: go ahead, you know who else included lauryd Daniels besides 263 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: my father, Virtually every major call and including Learny Brown 264 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: of Kansas that got down to US and Kansas. When 265 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: you make an assumption that my father is included players 266 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: because how were they complained the court? Yes, every successful 267 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: major college coach is doing that. Some are, some are 268 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: in schools, Some are at schools that they can get 269 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: kids that are better students and that are half better upbringing, 270 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: and some of them they can't. No, No, I listened. 271 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: I think. Look, I was that's fair and honestly this 272 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: is like a friend of court. But I would say 273 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: I would say that that if we were fair, or 274 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: at least in terms of perception, is that that Um, 275 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I've I felt like your dad And 276 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: this is again more perception than maybe reality. It wasn't 277 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: that your dad was recruiting guys that anybody else wouldn't recruit. Right, 278 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: everybody wanted Lloyd Daniels. The issues was he had he 279 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: had issues and graduate from high school. Or everybody wanted 280 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: Chris Herron. It was when you get him, do you 281 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: have the do you have the checks and balances in 282 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: place for for you know, for for guys who can 283 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: be wayward souls and and obviously look trouble. Trouble can 284 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: find any trouble can find anybody anywhere on a college campus, 285 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: in any place in the country. But I do think 286 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: when you have you know, when you have some guys, 287 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: you know the Kenny Brunner and uh uh and Andre 288 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: Jones deal right right, Like you you bring some tough 289 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: dudes from from l A. Like, what is your monitoring 290 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: system or is it simply like, look, we don't want 291 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: to monitor these guys, want them to show up and 292 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: show us they can work at practice, you know, and 293 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: and do the things they got to do to stay eligible. 294 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: And you know that that's that's how we do it. 295 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: And that was more the perception of how they how 296 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: they ran it, maybe more at Fresno, uh than definitely 297 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: at Long Beach State that more Fresno and then some 298 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: at you and OLV. Well, that's that's the first time 299 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: I've heard my dad criticized the monitory the kids um 300 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: and when they got there or shown them enough guidance 301 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: and stuff. I've heard of the big problem, but been 302 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: taking those kids originally. And I'm glad that you agree 303 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: that virtually every other coach and the country that could 304 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: have got them would have would have taken those kids. 305 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: My dad taught me went further though with some of 306 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: the others. We can go to those names, but with 307 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: respect to guidance and what you're trying to do with them, 308 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: I coached with my father. I played with my father. 309 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: Nobody had more of a support staff of the kids 310 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: than my father did. Most of the coaches when my 311 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: one of my dad was at the beginning part of 312 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: his career, and now I had a relationship with the players. 313 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: They were like the general and they were the players 314 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: with the subordinates, and there was no person relationship. My 315 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: father was one of the first coaches. Uh I wrote 316 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: about the expenses in the book about his Philosopher coaches. 317 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: But now all their coaches are doing. When you create 318 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: a close relationship with your players, you help them through 319 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: the tough times they faced. And and then the book 320 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: I go to the list of you've mentioned some of 321 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: the people that hadn't done well, um that I played 322 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: for my father, but there's ten times as many, maybe more, 323 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: that was very, very successful that had all these problems 324 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: because my mother and father worked with those kids when 325 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: they got there. When there were problems, they can come 326 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: to my parents and they would both help out. And 327 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: then then I got uh you know, we we had 328 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: a great support support staff with m Tim Gurgerich and 329 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: some of our assistant coaches there. But some kids just 330 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: are too far gone. The Kenny Burned thing. He's really ironic. 331 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: You know, he went to Georgetown. Not one person complained 332 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: about about UM him going to Georgetown and he gets 333 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: in trouble, but it's it's a Fresno state where he 334 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: never even played. And he was sitting now And the 335 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: Kenny Burner story is a great story because he's committed 336 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: to us UH at uh Presnell before he went to Georgetown. 337 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: And I went and saw him playing the McDonald's game 338 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: in UM after his senior season. And afterwards he asked 339 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: and he said, Hey, Danny, I'm so excited about coming 340 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: up to a presnol playing. UH, can you help me 341 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: get a car? And I said, sure, Kenny went up 342 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: to get a car. Come up over the summer. We'll 343 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: get your job. You work at it. You could put 344 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: a down payment on one of them. And he didn't 345 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: say a thing to me afterwards. And after that meeting, 346 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: he d committed and went somewhere else. Uh. So I 347 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: know firsthand what we did, what we didn't do, and 348 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: the players were lost. Um uh that we could have 349 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: had if my father would have done some of the 350 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 1: things that he's as you call proceeded to have done. UM. 351 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: And he said that many more is getting back here 352 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: with the players many more successes. The book really outlines 353 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: all of them and talks about, you know, what happened 354 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: to them and how they've turned their careers on guys 355 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: that are doing so great that we don't even talk 356 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: about uh U in the to media because success it 357 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: is a pick a story at somebody who's felled. Yeah, 358 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: now that's fair. Danny Tarkanian joining us um. Okay, the 359 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 1: the part that does get lost is that everywhere he went, 360 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: he won, and they won playing great basketball, right like 361 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: that's and it it somehow gets from the Amiba defense 362 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: even going back to you know Sydney Green and and 363 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: then too you know two Banks and that crew that 364 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: went to the final four in New Orleans, where you 365 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 1: go back to Long Beach State, Like your dad was 366 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 1: a hillacious basketball coach. Um. The teams you mentioned being 367 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: kind of a heavier time. His teams did play hard. 368 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: They were unbelievable defensively. He also embraced the three point 369 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: shot before others did, uh and transition basketball maybe before 370 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: others others did in that in that era. Um, how 371 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: that that has to sit poorly with you and that 372 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: so much of the discussion about your dad is the 373 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: n c A and not Hey look at all the 374 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: success they had in the way they played exactly. And 375 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: that was another purpose for writing the book. And Uh, 376 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about two things you touched upon 377 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: there because I tried to explain that real well in 378 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: the book, because it was so important to my father's success. 379 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: He was able to get his players to play harder 380 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: than any team in the country, at least to certain 381 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: statements of his career. Um read all back came out 382 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: and watched one of our practices and made that comment 383 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: to my father, as did many others that watched his 384 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: practice and play. They coudn't believe how hard the team played. 385 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: And my father's philosopher was this And as I mentioned 386 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: when he first got into coaching, that the rule was 387 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: the coaches the boss. The players listened to you. There's 388 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: no relationship. My dad felt. For you to get the 389 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: best out of the players you want, you need to 390 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: have a close relationship with them. The players had to 391 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: trust you. That you had to be loyal to the players, 392 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and the players if they felt that they believed that 393 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: you entrusted you, they would uh, they would play as 394 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: hard as they could for you, and my I did 395 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: that with those players. Wait before anybody else there, and 396 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: I'll give a story of a kid named John Hugh 397 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: Trapp who played for my dad at Passaging the City College. Well, 398 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: when he got there, John and jail several times at well, 399 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: he's been in jail at least and he went to 400 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: several different colleges, and uh, my father met with him 401 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,959 Speaker 1: and he said, John, if you do what you're supposed 402 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: to do here, you could have a nice career, maybe 403 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: even played professionally. But if you screw up here, you're 404 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: gonna be back in the streets in Detroit and without 405 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: any future. And he goes, by the way, I'm going 406 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: to dinner with my wife, can you watch over our 407 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: three small children, the oldest spreing seven. And John said 408 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: it later on, he goes, I never trusted but by 409 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: person the point, they certainly never trusted me. And here's 410 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: this guy asking me the baby the kids. Well, John 411 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: end up being a regular babysitter. He ended up going 412 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: playing for my father, took him to the state championship, 413 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: and then he went to you and over before my 414 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: dad was there, I had a good career and was 415 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: in the closet to San Diego Clippers, and then he 416 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: came back to you and be with my dad graduate assistant. 417 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: You know, these are the stories my dad had of 418 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: taking his kids that I've had problems off the court, 419 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: but because he gave them that kind of a relationship, 420 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: they played harder than anybody in the country for him, 421 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: of other teams. And then the second thing when you 422 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: talk about his coaching ability, and I mentioned that in 423 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: the book because again it is lost and I appreciate 424 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: the fact that you mentioned it, but when he started 425 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: his career, he was one to zone defensive coach, so 426 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: acting the third year Long Beach when them Long Beach 427 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: was a Division two before he got there. In the 428 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: third year Long Beach they almost beat U C. L A, 429 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: lost by two and in the rest of the regional finals, 430 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: and Dog Wooden said after the game, I did one 431 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: of the guards his book, and I forget who the 432 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: other guard was, but that was the greatest zone defense 433 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: they've ever played against, and that Tart was a master 434 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: of the zone. And then he goes to um alb 435 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,479 Speaker 1: and he loses his big guy before the season starts, 436 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: can't play his zone anymore, so he meets with Normla 437 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: Burger from the Mexico is a greater teaching pressure man defense. 438 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: My dad takes a long gives and add some of 439 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: his own stuff and they become the best soul core 440 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: pressure man team in the country. You know, the teams 441 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: in the mid seventies average a hundred eight points a 442 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: game on a hundred ten points a game, went to 443 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: the Final four and lost to North Carolina by want 444 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: playing that kind of pressure defense, and then you know, 445 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: you get into the eighties. My dad didn't think you 446 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: could win continually with the folk core press, so he 447 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: went to a half court pressure man defense and played 448 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: that as well as anybody, and then he added in 449 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: the lead zone, which coach Ky said after theame that 450 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Tarcanian was the best defensive coach and college basketball. So 451 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: you've got guys who are the on the top of 452 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: the profession praise and my father like that. But the medium, 453 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: the perception doesn't um want to accept that. They want 454 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: to promote that, and that was one of the reasons 455 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: for this book. They've written what what the national champions 456 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: you mean, the wells everything you reached the pinnacle of that. 457 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: Every coach that has the desire to coach big time 458 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: wants to win a national championship. I know my father 459 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: was close and two other times and they had actually 460 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: they were favorites coming into those Tofronto fours and seventy 461 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: eighty seven and lost heartbreakers. So to finally get over 462 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: the top of the way they did, I know that 463 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: the world to my father. How long did it take 464 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 1: him to get over the loss the next year? I 465 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: don't know if you ever did. Uh. That loss was 466 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: more than just you know, living as one team in 467 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: one season. It was basically allowed, uh, the administration and 468 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: UNLB to make a move, them to get rid of 469 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: my father and ended his career un LB. As you 470 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: probably remember at that time period, un LEE was on 471 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 1: the virgin and in some of the greatest players in 472 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: the country on a consistent basis. Was my bad ever 473 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: had he had Ed O'Bannon and Sean Tarvat, Charles O'Bannon 474 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: was coming in, Jason Kidd at the South Moore committed. 475 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: But that loss to do UM allowed the university and 476 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,199 Speaker 1: to top every of my father. And you know, one 477 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: of the things that people have always asked, well, why 478 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: would the university do that? You know that if they 479 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: was that, you know, they want they wanted other motivation 480 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: behind And I think it's so simple and I don't 481 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: think there's any conspiracy things behind it. And you know, 482 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: quite honestly, I don't necessarily blame the guys who did it. 483 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: Is when my father came to un lb spacase as 484 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: the community was considered it's really bad place to live. 485 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: It you have mobsters and prostitute shouldn't gambling. And my 486 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: dad came in and he was fighting the nsc twy 487 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: and he had that renegade image. So they sort of 488 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: embraced each other and then at the city changed, Um 489 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: Steve went started building family because oriented sinos and they 490 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: got in the president and he said, you know they 491 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: could be the harbor of the West. Um, they didn't 492 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: like that image. And my father fighting the ANC and 493 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: tway and the nc twity was continually coming after him. 494 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: In fact, it was reaching the peak and the university 495 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: just said, we can't have this type of image represent 496 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: our university anymore. So they got ridden by that. M Um, 497 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: what do you want his legacy to be? Well, there's 498 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: things in there the book that I tried to point 499 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: out that the whole people understand one is the real 500 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: fact about how he ran his program in his battles 501 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: with the n C twig, but also the kind of 502 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: person he was. My dad wasn't a coach who would 503 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: yell and intimidate and and trying to motivate players that way. 504 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: He was a coach that uh The motivated players by 505 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: using sarcasm and wit, and he was very witty. You know, 506 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: one time we weren't playing hard in practice. He called 507 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: the team together and he said, you guys are all 508 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: a bunch of bandits next time you pick up your 509 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: scholarship check or a masket gun because of Robin the 510 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: university when you don't play hard. And you know, I 511 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: wasn't the players I was on the team that that. 512 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: I was sitting there wanted to laugh because it's so 513 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: darned funny, but scared to death the way he said it. 514 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: And there are numerous stories like that in the book 515 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: about how he got players to play that way. And 516 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: then the second thing about him is he had a 517 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: unique philocity and how he handled players. He uh he 518 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,479 Speaker 1: had to two things that he learned. One was from 519 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: Riverside to College is the president there uh told told 520 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: him a statement that he never forgotten carried on the 521 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: rest of his career and manage. Never put a kid 522 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: so far in the whole he can't dig his way 523 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: out of his stark player had gotten in a fight 524 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: and uh punch somebody, and my dad was going to 525 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: sustend him for the season, and the President said, no, 526 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: you going to put him too far at a hole. Anyways, 527 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: that kid end up being a first round draft picked 528 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: for the Seattle SuperSonics and had a great career. So 529 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: my father always had that in mind when players, as 530 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned, many have got in trouble and um the 531 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: media and many of the other politically correct people want 532 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: my father be more tough disciplinarian on him. My dad 533 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: never wanted to put a kid too far in ahole 534 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: he couldn't beg himself out of. And he got that 535 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: from the president with a side City college. And the 536 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: second thing is my dad always felt that being honest 537 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: with the players, units they might not agree with it, 538 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: when they the play is more endearing to you, and 539 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: play harder to you and listened to you. And this 540 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: is another example I put in the book Our year 541 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: in three we had some players that were complaining about 542 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: my all that the saving. Uh was savoring the two 543 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: big players, Sydney Green and Larry Anderson. So you know 544 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: most coaches WI tell the players, thought, oh, I don't 545 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: I treat everybody the same, And you know everybody knows 546 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: that's not the case. The star players are being taken 547 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: care of better than others. So my dad called the 548 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: team together and he said, I understand something. You think 549 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: I'm favoring sitting Larry, and he said, well, I am. 550 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: They're carrying us and about them. We went to where 551 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: we are if we want one. We're in a desert island, 552 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: and I had one kintino water. I keep sitting Larry 553 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: everything they need to drink. And because there anything left over, 554 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: I might share with the rescue. I think it to 555 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: myself too. I'm I'm his own son. He's gonna thirst 556 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: me out. Huh. Last thing, where'd the tower come from? 557 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: His first championship season was at Riverside Reads High School 558 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: and the game won and over time and during the 559 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: regulation he kept yelling at the player in his mouth 560 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 1: and getting drive, so we ran to the water fountain 561 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: to wed it. By the time over time happened, he said, 562 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to keep doing that, so what the 563 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: charity chomped on. It got his mouth west because elsemore, 564 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: they won the game, and because it is superstition, and 565 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: probably because everybody liked it so much. He continue to 566 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: do with the rest of his career. M amazing, amazing stuff. 567 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: Rebel with the Cause is available uh Amazon or wherever 568 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: you pick up books. Danny Tarkane, who was not only 569 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: the son former player but the lawyer for the late 570 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: great Jerry Tarkanian, Dannis is great. This is awesome catching up. 571 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. Sure, thanks that for 572 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: having on. I appreciate him. Thanks Danny. Be sure to 573 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays 574 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. All right, that's 575 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: it for all ball. My thanks to Danny Tarkanian for 576 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: joining me. My own thoughts on tarka Shark are these 577 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: I thought he was. I thought his teams played hard. 578 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: I thought his teams were tough. Um. I don't believe 579 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: that the difference between tark and for example, Eddie Sutton, 580 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: who's not in the Hall of Fame, I do think 581 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: belongs off. I mean doing national championship. Both had issues 582 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: with the n c A, the differences, And look, you 583 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: gotta read this book to understand that Tark's issues at 584 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: the n n c A date back to when he 585 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: was at Long Beach State. Um Tart did not believe 586 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: in the n c A rules. He didn't. He did 587 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: not believe the n c rules were fair two kids, 588 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: especially from lower socio economic backgrounds, and so he didn't, 589 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: you know, as much as Danny said, like, look, they 590 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: didn't pay guys whatever. I don't know. I have no 591 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: idea what went on. I'm not gonna sit here and 592 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: say they did or whatever. It's more just the idea 593 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: of what are you teaching your players. You're teaching your 594 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: players at the n c A rules don't make sense. 595 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: Why would they follow them? Doesn't mean that Tark had 596 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: anything to do with it, but simply looking the other way, 597 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: or in a place like Las Vegas where cash is king, 598 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: it's not that hard to imagine what could have taken place, 599 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: especially if the head coach has open disdain for the rules, 600 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: and he Setton did not have open disdain for the rules. 601 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: He did not. Now that doesn't mean that they didn't 602 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: break the rules when he was at Kentucky, but similarly, 603 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: when he was a Kentucky as you heard from Danny 604 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: like he wasn't mention in any of the findings. It wasn't, 605 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: but that that's the way those are. The head coaches 606 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: have always been smart. They put layers between themselves and 607 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: the bag man. And there are bagmen. But the difference 608 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: is that any Sutton believed in the rules, believed in 609 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: going to class and in getting your degree. Whereas I 610 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: felt like and I could be mistaken, I felt like 611 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: the narrative of Tark the Shark's Crew was always like, 612 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: we think the n c A rules are bunk. We 613 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: think that you do you know, like I don't know 614 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: if he was a stickler forgetting his getting degrees, but 615 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: I do think he wanted who wanted guys to be 616 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: better people and was invested in their lives. I think 617 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: he's in any way a bad human being, But I'm 618 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: not sure there was the push towards education like there 619 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: was with that he Sutton. And and he said never, 620 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: he never to me or to any way utter ever 621 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: said anything negative about the rules. He thought the rules 622 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: were the rules, and they were the right rules. The 623 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: only question is whether they broke the rules were in Kentucky. 624 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: That's not the case with Tark who had opened and 625 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: had they had open disdain for with the rules about 626 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: the ability to have kids have money in their pocket 627 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: while they were on scholarship at in college. That's the difference. 628 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: It was fun watching the running Rebels man I was 629 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: a kid. My dad coached Longreach State. The Revs would 630 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 1: come in and they would take over a building. They 631 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: played the Convention Center in Vegas. Was amazing. One of 632 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: the great experiences of my life was my dad and 633 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: I the second year after they won that championship, they 634 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: had a Desert Classic. They played Florida State one night 635 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: in Georgia Georgie Town. The next night and we drove 636 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: to the Desert. He got really sick in Baker. We 637 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: stayed the night, and then the next morning I actually 638 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: had to drive the last leg to Vegas. And I 639 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: was like fourteen years old. Alright's that really happened. I 640 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: feel like I was maybe anyone before I turned fifteen. Anyway, 641 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: we went to the Mad Greek and then we went 642 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: to Vegas and he coughed and sneezed, and we watched 643 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: both games and it was the first time I've ever 644 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 1: seen a fireworks display inside an Arena. So I remember 645 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: talked to Shark vividly. I thought their teams played hard 646 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: and played well. I would say there's a difference between 647 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: him and some of the other coaches that aren't even 648 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: in the the the Hall of Fame. And um, I 649 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not gonna sit here and judge a guy. 650 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: I you know, he it's a legendary member of the 651 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: coll of of college Basketball's you know, I think he's 652 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: on the Mount Rushmore. But that team certainly could have been. 653 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: It's an amazing team. And then of course they lose 654 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: to Duke. Remember and kind of three of the guys 655 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: are in the hot tub with Richard the fixer Perry 656 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: the guy's nickname is the Fixer. So who knows how 657 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: and why they lost the Duke. I'm sure those guys 658 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: will ultimately take that one to the grave. Maybe that 659 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: comes up in like thirty more years in another book. 660 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed it. UH our second podcast, the 661 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: Week More upcoming as we get ready for March Badness. 662 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: We can have some fun. You have some questions, tweet 663 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: me at Gottlieb Show. Listen to Doug Gotlieb Show Daily 664 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: three or six eastern twelve three Pacific on Fox Sport 665 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: Trader the I Heart Radio app you can download that 666 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: as well. I'm just gotta leave in This is all 667 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: Bolt