1 00:00:16,271 --> 00:00:32,311 Speaker 1: Pushkin. On Thursday, November thirteenth, nineteen eighty six, Ronald Reagan 2 00:00:32,351 --> 00:00:35,271 Speaker 1: opened his maroon leather bound diary and jotted down a 3 00:00:35,271 --> 00:00:38,151 Speaker 1: few thoughts about his day. He was in the middle 4 00:00:38,191 --> 00:00:41,511 Speaker 1: of a firestorm, he wrote, caused by the ridiculous falsehoods 5 00:00:41,551 --> 00:00:45,751 Speaker 1: the media has been spawning. The firestorm had been ignited 6 00:00:45,830 --> 00:00:50,951 Speaker 1: by two separate scandals. First, there was Eugene Hasenfuss, the 7 00:00:50,991 --> 00:00:54,071 Speaker 1: former marine whose plane had been shot down over Nicaragua 8 00:00:54,071 --> 00:00:55,271 Speaker 1: by a Sandinista soldier. 9 00:00:55,511 --> 00:00:57,751 Speaker 2: It has all the makings of a major new uproar. 10 00:00:57,911 --> 00:01:00,590 Speaker 3: The US may have violated a ban on a to 11 00:01:00,631 --> 00:01:01,231 Speaker 3: the Contras. 12 00:01:01,351 --> 00:01:04,511 Speaker 1: The Hasenfuss crash seemed to confirm that the Reagan administration 13 00:01:04,831 --> 00:01:07,751 Speaker 1: was yet again evading the law that prohibited the US 14 00:01:07,831 --> 00:01:09,751 Speaker 1: government from funding the Contra rebels. 15 00:01:10,151 --> 00:01:12,791 Speaker 3: The White House has had full knowledge of this Contra 16 00:01:12,911 --> 00:01:15,071 Speaker 3: cargo plane operation for more than a year. 17 00:01:16,471 --> 00:01:19,071 Speaker 1: Then, about a month later, the White House was hit 18 00:01:19,151 --> 00:01:22,031 Speaker 1: with a seemingly unrelated story about arms trafficking in a 19 00:01:22,071 --> 00:01:26,431 Speaker 1: different foreign country. According to an article in a Lebanese magazine, 20 00:01:26,551 --> 00:01:30,831 Speaker 1: the US was selling missiles to Iran. Subsequent reports alleged 21 00:01:30,831 --> 00:01:33,511 Speaker 1: that the arrangement was part of an arms for hostages swamp. 22 00:01:33,751 --> 00:01:37,311 Speaker 4: Iran has helped the United States free hostage from Lebanon, 23 00:01:37,591 --> 00:01:40,871 Speaker 4: and the US is helping Iran in its war with Iraq. 24 00:01:41,031 --> 00:01:44,271 Speaker 1: In his diary, Reagan referred to the controversy as the 25 00:01:44,311 --> 00:01:48,031 Speaker 1: Iran incident that was a lot more innocuous than what 26 00:01:48,111 --> 00:01:50,111 Speaker 1: people outside the administration were, calling. 27 00:01:49,951 --> 00:01:53,351 Speaker 5: It a very dangerous precedent negotiating with terrorists. 28 00:01:52,951 --> 00:01:55,431 Speaker 3: Escapades, and I think that is the word is simply 29 00:01:55,471 --> 00:01:58,951 Speaker 3: a misreading of Iranian political realities, and therefore it's dumb. 30 00:02:01,871 --> 00:02:06,431 Speaker 1: The Iran news instantly eclipsed Eugene Hasenfuss and Nicaragua. It 31 00:02:06,511 --> 00:02:09,111 Speaker 1: just wasn't that surprising that Reagan still wanted to support 32 00:02:09,151 --> 00:02:12,591 Speaker 1: the contras. The arms for hostages story, on the other hand, 33 00:02:12,871 --> 00:02:16,150 Speaker 1: seemed to come out of nowhere, and it flatly contradicted 34 00:02:16,151 --> 00:02:20,071 Speaker 1: Reagan's stated policies of not negotiating with terrorists and opposing 35 00:02:20,151 --> 00:02:23,791 Speaker 1: the sale of weapons to Iran. The outcry was unlike 36 00:02:23,831 --> 00:02:25,951 Speaker 1: anything the Reagan White House had ever faced. 37 00:02:26,431 --> 00:02:29,711 Speaker 6: For six years round Reagan was the Teflon president. 38 00:02:30,231 --> 00:02:33,631 Speaker 1: That's Peter Wallson. In nineteen eighty six, he was serving 39 00:02:33,671 --> 00:02:36,791 Speaker 1: as White House counsel, a job that involved advising the 40 00:02:36,831 --> 00:02:40,391 Speaker 1: president on what was and wasn't legal. Wallison says that 41 00:02:40,471 --> 00:02:42,671 Speaker 1: scandals just didn't seem to stick to Reagan through most 42 00:02:42,711 --> 00:02:45,791 Speaker 1: of his presidency, but the Iran story was different. 43 00:02:46,551 --> 00:02:49,871 Speaker 6: There was so little official information coming out, only leaks 44 00:02:50,311 --> 00:02:53,951 Speaker 6: from various places and people who had some knowledge of it, 45 00:02:54,271 --> 00:02:57,351 Speaker 6: either abroad or in the United States. So it was 46 00:02:57,431 --> 00:03:00,271 Speaker 6: an enormous media firestorm. 47 00:03:00,431 --> 00:03:03,911 Speaker 1: Initially, Reagan tried to just ride it out, even as 48 00:03:03,951 --> 00:03:08,151 Speaker 1: advisers urged him to publicly address the controversy. Finally, a 49 00:03:08,191 --> 00:03:11,231 Speaker 1: week after American media picked up the arms for hostages story, 50 00:03:11,751 --> 00:03:15,871 Speaker 1: Reagan agreed to deliver a televised speech. First order of business, 51 00:03:15,911 --> 00:03:18,071 Speaker 1: he wrote in his diary, I will go on TV 52 00:03:18,231 --> 00:03:19,351 Speaker 1: at eight pm tonight. 53 00:03:20,431 --> 00:03:23,471 Speaker 5: President Reagan is addressing the nation this evening to set 54 00:03:23,511 --> 00:03:26,031 Speaker 5: the record straight as the White House put it on 55 00:03:26,111 --> 00:03:29,271 Speaker 5: relations where they ran, and efforts to free you as hostages. 56 00:03:29,631 --> 00:03:32,511 Speaker 1: Peter Wallason is one of the White House staffers responsible 57 00:03:32,511 --> 00:03:33,391 Speaker 1: for writing the speech. 58 00:03:33,991 --> 00:03:37,151 Speaker 6: We were supposed to explain what all these newspaper reports 59 00:03:37,191 --> 00:03:41,271 Speaker 6: were about, all this media coverage. But the idea was 60 00:03:41,391 --> 00:03:46,551 Speaker 6: to try to explain, I suppose what it was that 61 00:03:46,711 --> 00:03:49,311 Speaker 6: happened in a way that showed that it was innocent. 62 00:03:54,591 --> 00:03:57,951 Speaker 1: But as Wallason and the other speechwriters discovered, the facts 63 00:03:57,991 --> 00:04:00,391 Speaker 1: of the arm shipments were not easy to nail down. 64 00:04:01,471 --> 00:04:04,271 Speaker 1: Here's Jane Mayer, a reporter at The New Yorker and 65 00:04:04,311 --> 00:04:05,991 Speaker 1: co author of the book Landslide. 66 00:04:06,711 --> 00:04:11,871 Speaker 7: What becomes clear is that the as that are most 67 00:04:11,911 --> 00:04:17,630 Speaker 7: involved in this scandal are conspiring with each other to 68 00:04:17,711 --> 00:04:20,510 Speaker 7: come up with cover stories that will get themselves off 69 00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:24,951 Speaker 7: the hook. But in order to do that, they need 70 00:04:24,950 --> 00:04:27,190 Speaker 7: to kind of get the President to lie for them. 71 00:04:27,751 --> 00:04:30,791 Speaker 8: Some sources within the administration tell us somewhat different story 72 00:04:30,831 --> 00:04:33,630 Speaker 8: than the one the president will tell tonight. One such source, 73 00:04:33,671 --> 00:04:37,031 Speaker 8: familiar with the president's speech, said, we are now engaged 74 00:04:37,071 --> 00:04:38,231 Speaker 8: in rewriting history. 75 00:04:38,711 --> 00:04:42,791 Speaker 7: This is all putting the president in great peril, and 76 00:04:43,071 --> 00:04:47,271 Speaker 7: it rings a familiar bell to at least a couple people. 77 00:04:47,831 --> 00:04:49,911 Speaker 7: They remember Watergate. 78 00:04:50,431 --> 00:04:51,751 Speaker 1: Here's Peter Wallason again. 79 00:04:52,751 --> 00:04:58,111 Speaker 6: After Watergate, we all understood that the cover up could 80 00:04:58,151 --> 00:05:01,551 Speaker 6: be worse than the crime itself. 81 00:05:02,631 --> 00:05:05,111 Speaker 1: Reagan's speech was going to be an opportunity to send 82 00:05:05,191 --> 00:05:08,751 Speaker 1: a clear signal he was not trying to cover anything up. 83 00:05:10,751 --> 00:05:14,431 Speaker 9: NBC's regular Thursday night schedule beginning with the Cosby Show 84 00:05:14,831 --> 00:05:17,991 Speaker 9: will be seen immediately following President Reagan's address on most 85 00:05:17,991 --> 00:05:19,351 Speaker 9: of these stations. 86 00:05:19,951 --> 00:05:23,471 Speaker 1: At eight p m. On November thirteenth, Reagan sat down 87 00:05:23,471 --> 00:05:26,391 Speaker 1: at his desk in the Oval Office, looked into the camera, 88 00:05:26,951 --> 00:05:28,951 Speaker 1: and tried to explain himself. 89 00:05:29,751 --> 00:05:30,311 Speaker 10: Good evening. 90 00:05:31,831 --> 00:05:33,791 Speaker 11: I wanted this time to talk with you about an 91 00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:38,151 Speaker 11: extremely sensitive and profoundly important matter of foreign policy. For 92 00:05:38,191 --> 00:05:41,351 Speaker 11: eighteen months now, we have had underway a secret diplomatic 93 00:05:41,391 --> 00:05:45,391 Speaker 11: initiative to Iran. That initiative was undertaken for the simplest 94 00:05:45,391 --> 00:05:48,391 Speaker 11: and best of reasons, to renew a relationship with the 95 00:05:48,511 --> 00:05:51,271 Speaker 11: nation of Iran, to bring an honorable end of the 96 00:05:51,271 --> 00:05:54,991 Speaker 11: bloody six year war between Iran and Iraq, to eliminate 97 00:05:55,031 --> 00:05:59,071 Speaker 11: state sponsored terrorism and subversion, and to effect the safe 98 00:05:59,071 --> 00:06:00,471 Speaker 11: return of all hostages. 99 00:06:01,631 --> 00:06:04,831 Speaker 1: There it was confirmation of the arm sales to Iran 100 00:06:04,951 --> 00:06:08,751 Speaker 1: to effect the safe return of all the hostages. Except 101 00:06:08,991 --> 00:06:11,911 Speaker 1: a minute later, Reagan also said this. 102 00:06:12,431 --> 00:06:14,671 Speaker 11: The charge has been made that the United States has 103 00:06:14,711 --> 00:06:18,111 Speaker 11: shipped weapons to Iran as ransom payment for the release 104 00:06:18,151 --> 00:06:22,551 Speaker 11: of American hostages in Lebanon. Those charges are utterly false. 105 00:06:23,511 --> 00:06:24,791 Speaker 11: The United States has not. 106 00:06:24,911 --> 00:06:26,950 Speaker 1: The speech did not play well with viewers. 107 00:06:27,231 --> 00:06:29,711 Speaker 4: It is a new experience for the president. He goes 108 00:06:29,751 --> 00:06:31,791 Speaker 4: on television to tell the nation he has never sent 109 00:06:31,831 --> 00:06:35,111 Speaker 4: any arms to Iran in exchange for American hostages, and 110 00:06:35,231 --> 00:06:38,231 Speaker 4: twenty four hours later, the country is far from convinced. 111 00:06:38,391 --> 00:06:41,071 Speaker 1: An ABC News poll found that fifty six percent of 112 00:06:41,111 --> 00:06:43,591 Speaker 1: Americans thought the President was lying when he said there 113 00:06:43,591 --> 00:06:47,431 Speaker 1: had not been in arms for hostages deal. Suddenly, Reagan 114 00:06:47,471 --> 00:06:52,791 Speaker 1: was in an unfamiliar position. People just didn't trust him. 115 00:06:52,911 --> 00:06:56,711 Speaker 5: There was criticism of the President's explanations from both Republicans 116 00:06:56,711 --> 00:06:58,151 Speaker 5: and Democrats in Congress. 117 00:06:58,311 --> 00:06:59,591 Speaker 12: Is the President lying? 118 00:06:59,951 --> 00:07:02,711 Speaker 13: They may think there was no quid pro quoll. I 119 00:07:02,751 --> 00:07:05,271 Speaker 13: can't believe that the Iranians didn't think there was any 120 00:07:05,311 --> 00:07:06,070 Speaker 13: quid pro quoll. 121 00:07:07,071 --> 00:07:09,951 Speaker 1: This was not how people usually talked about Ronald Reagan. 122 00:07:10,511 --> 00:07:12,711 Speaker 1: It cut against everything that was appealing about him as 123 00:07:12,711 --> 00:07:13,351 Speaker 1: a politician. 124 00:07:13,871 --> 00:07:18,551 Speaker 7: In Watergate, Nixon was always seen as a schemer. You know, 125 00:07:18,631 --> 00:07:24,311 Speaker 7: his nickname was tricky Dick. Reagan was the opposite. He 126 00:07:24,351 --> 00:07:27,111 Speaker 7: was sort of sunny, and he didn't seem like the 127 00:07:27,151 --> 00:07:30,471 Speaker 7: type would be able to come up with this incredibly 128 00:07:30,591 --> 00:07:33,351 Speaker 7: complicated scheme and lie to the American public. 129 00:07:36,551 --> 00:07:39,791 Speaker 1: In the wake of Reagan's speech. White House communications director 130 00:07:39,871 --> 00:07:44,111 Speaker 1: Pat Buchanan Yes that. Pat Buchanan decided to reach out 131 00:07:44,111 --> 00:07:46,911 Speaker 1: to a former colleague he thought might have some advice. 132 00:07:47,151 --> 00:07:51,111 Speaker 7: And he called up Nixon himself and asked Nixon for 133 00:07:51,151 --> 00:07:52,431 Speaker 7: his advice. What should they do? 134 00:07:53,071 --> 00:07:54,191 Speaker 1: Yes that Nixon. 135 00:07:54,631 --> 00:07:58,951 Speaker 7: Nixon said, don't do the cover up. Get out the 136 00:07:59,031 --> 00:08:01,991 Speaker 7: facts as much as you can, and say you've made 137 00:08:02,031 --> 00:08:05,071 Speaker 7: a mistake, and the public will accept that. 138 00:08:06,111 --> 00:08:09,591 Speaker 1: Buchanan brought Nixon's advice to the White House, but Reagan 139 00:08:09,711 --> 00:08:11,951 Speaker 1: was not prepared to admit that he had made a mistake. 140 00:08:13,151 --> 00:08:16,871 Speaker 1: There wasn't anything to apologize for. He insisted he hadn't 141 00:08:16,871 --> 00:08:22,911 Speaker 1: done anything wrong. I'm leon Nyfok from Prologue Projects and 142 00:08:22,991 --> 00:08:26,711 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. This is fiasco, Iran Contra. 143 00:08:27,111 --> 00:08:29,511 Speaker 4: The country is being asked to believe some things that 144 00:08:29,551 --> 00:08:30,471 Speaker 4: are hard to swallow. 145 00:08:30,551 --> 00:08:34,311 Speaker 6: Something's happening here that looks a lot like Watergate, that being. 146 00:08:34,191 --> 00:08:36,031 Speaker 14: A complete orgy of shredding. 147 00:08:36,351 --> 00:08:38,711 Speaker 7: I realized that I'd missed the whole story. 148 00:08:38,790 --> 00:08:40,751 Speaker 11: I directed the Attorney General, who wanted to take a 149 00:08:40,831 --> 00:08:41,710 Speaker 11: review of this matter. 150 00:08:41,831 --> 00:08:45,030 Speaker 13: The President knew nothing about it until I reported it 151 00:08:45,070 --> 00:08:47,071 Speaker 13: to him. I alerted him yesterday morning Boo. 152 00:08:46,950 --> 00:08:49,711 Speaker 5: In the administration knew what was going on, and when. 153 00:08:52,830 --> 00:08:57,350 Speaker 1: Episode five all out how the Reagan White House tried 154 00:08:57,391 --> 00:09:00,830 Speaker 1: to stop their Iran problem from becoming a second Watergate. 155 00:09:06,190 --> 00:09:14,071 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after the President's speech from the 156 00:09:14,070 --> 00:09:16,830 Speaker 1: Oval Office, the White House schedule the follow up press 157 00:09:16,830 --> 00:09:20,151 Speaker 1: conference about the Iran issue. Maybe his first speech had 158 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:21,111 Speaker 1: just been too confusing. 159 00:09:21,550 --> 00:09:24,670 Speaker 4: It is argued to this very political city that President 160 00:09:24,670 --> 00:09:27,391 Speaker 4: Reagan's televised news conference tonight in the midst of the 161 00:09:27,471 --> 00:09:30,871 Speaker 4: Iran affair, will be the most important of his presidency. 162 00:09:31,310 --> 00:09:34,551 Speaker 4: There are many unanswered questions about the most visibly difficult 163 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:35,310 Speaker 4: problem since. 164 00:09:35,111 --> 00:09:38,790 Speaker 1: He was elected once again, Reagan's aides were divided over 165 00:09:38,830 --> 00:09:41,350 Speaker 1: how he should present the facts within the next Should 166 00:09:41,391 --> 00:09:43,711 Speaker 1: he say as little as possible and keep insisting that 167 00:09:43,751 --> 00:09:46,831 Speaker 1: everything had been above board, or should he admit that 168 00:09:46,871 --> 00:09:48,951 Speaker 1: the missile sales were part of an arms for hostages 169 00:09:48,991 --> 00:09:53,230 Speaker 1: deal and apologize. One of the people advocating for the 170 00:09:53,271 --> 00:09:56,990 Speaker 1: come clean approach was Reagan's Secretary of State, George Schultz. 171 00:09:57,391 --> 00:09:59,511 Speaker 10: Get it all out, as I said, Morts and all, 172 00:10:00,430 --> 00:10:02,750 Speaker 10: and then they'll graduate get behind you. 173 00:10:03,391 --> 00:10:05,910 Speaker 1: Schultz died in twenty twenty one at the age of 174 00:10:05,950 --> 00:10:09,151 Speaker 1: one hundred. When I interviewed him, he was ninety eight 175 00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:12,910 Speaker 1: and living in californ And though he served under Nixon, 176 00:10:13,511 --> 00:10:16,271 Speaker 1: he insisted to me that his advice to Reagan wasn't 177 00:10:16,351 --> 00:10:18,511 Speaker 1: informed by his experience of Watergate. 178 00:10:19,550 --> 00:10:23,910 Speaker 10: No, I wasn't really thinking about Watergate. President Reagan's standing 179 00:10:24,111 --> 00:10:28,991 Speaker 10: was totally different from Richard Nixon's. People loved Reagan and 180 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:31,271 Speaker 10: respected him a great deal, and they knew he was 181 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:32,231 Speaker 10: a man of principle. 182 00:10:32,910 --> 00:10:36,511 Speaker 1: As Secretary of State, Schultz had strongly opposed the idea 183 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:39,991 Speaker 1: of selling missiles to Iran. He had advocated against it 184 00:10:40,070 --> 00:10:41,670 Speaker 1: during multiple meetings with the President. 185 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:45,670 Speaker 10: I was opposed to it from the beginning, and I 186 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:49,750 Speaker 10: always felt somehow it would wind up leaking out. My 187 00:10:49,871 --> 00:10:52,151 Speaker 10: fear was that we were selling arms to Iran and 188 00:10:52,231 --> 00:10:54,790 Speaker 10: Iran was up to no good. It was a mistake. 189 00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:01,071 Speaker 1: Clearly, pushing back against the arms deals in private had 190 00:11:01,111 --> 00:11:04,910 Speaker 1: not worked. Now that the story was out, Schultz was 191 00:11:04,991 --> 00:11:07,631 Speaker 1: surprisingly willing to push back in public too. 192 00:11:07,991 --> 00:11:11,751 Speaker 3: Secretary of State Schultz continued distancing himself from the trading 193 00:11:11,751 --> 00:11:13,030 Speaker 3: of weapons or hostages. 194 00:11:13,271 --> 00:11:16,710 Speaker 5: Shultz said he thought that not negotiating with terrorists is 195 00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:20,271 Speaker 5: the right policy asked about official silence on the reports 196 00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:23,591 Speaker 5: of dealings where Iran. Schultz later said, I don't particularly 197 00:11:23,710 --> 00:11:25,550 Speaker 5: enjoy it. I like to say what I think. 198 00:11:25,991 --> 00:11:29,910 Speaker 1: As the scandal intensified, Schultz went unfaced the nation. In 199 00:11:29,950 --> 00:11:32,750 Speaker 1: an interview with Leslie Stall, he made clear that he 200 00:11:32,871 --> 00:11:34,991 Speaker 1: was out of sync with other members of the administration. 201 00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:38,470 Speaker 15: Will there be any more arm shipments to Iran, either 202 00:11:38,511 --> 00:11:41,391 Speaker 15: directly by the United States or through any third parties? 203 00:11:42,190 --> 00:11:46,111 Speaker 16: Under the circumstances if Iran's were with Iraq, its pursuit 204 00:11:46,190 --> 00:11:50,070 Speaker 16: of terrorism, its association with those holding our hostages, I 205 00:11:50,151 --> 00:11:52,951 Speaker 16: would certainly say, as far as I am concerned, No. 206 00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:57,350 Speaker 15: Do you have the authority to speak for the entire administration? 207 00:11:58,511 --> 00:11:58,591 Speaker 14: No. 208 00:11:59,830 --> 00:12:03,751 Speaker 1: Schultz's interview enraged his colleagues in the administration and set 209 00:12:03,790 --> 00:12:06,950 Speaker 1: off another round of speculation about chaos in the White House. 210 00:12:07,471 --> 00:12:08,831 Speaker 1: You're not going to resign, are you? 211 00:12:09,151 --> 00:12:11,551 Speaker 3: For the State Department? They're saying the Secretary wants a 212 00:12:11,550 --> 00:12:14,391 Speaker 3: firm commitment no more arms will be sent to Iran, 213 00:12:14,631 --> 00:12:18,471 Speaker 3: and shows will be included in future deliberations. 214 00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:22,790 Speaker 1: Now, Reagan wouldn't just have to clear the air about 215 00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:25,830 Speaker 1: arm shipments. When he gave his press conference, he would 216 00:12:25,871 --> 00:12:28,831 Speaker 1: likely face questions about whether his administration was coming apart 217 00:12:28,910 --> 00:12:32,511 Speaker 1: under the weight of the scandal. To prepare, the President 218 00:12:32,590 --> 00:12:35,550 Speaker 1: enlisted the help of some of his top aides, including 219 00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:37,710 Speaker 1: National Security Advisor John Poindexter. 220 00:12:38,751 --> 00:12:40,910 Speaker 17: We knew from the beginning it would be difficult to 221 00:12:40,991 --> 00:12:48,550 Speaker 17: explain to the American people the detailed rationale. The problem, 222 00:12:48,830 --> 00:12:54,230 Speaker 17: in my mind, was associating the arms with the hostages. 223 00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:58,271 Speaker 1: Poindexter wanted the President to explain that the missiles weren't 224 00:12:58,351 --> 00:13:01,551 Speaker 1: really a ransom payment for the hostages. They were part 225 00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:06,271 Speaker 1: of something bigger. As you'll remember for Episode four, Poindexter 226 00:13:06,351 --> 00:13:08,790 Speaker 1: believed that the ultimate goal of the initiative was to 227 00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:12,631 Speaker 1: make inroads with moderates in the Iranian government. The point 228 00:13:12,631 --> 00:13:14,631 Speaker 1: of the missiles was to show the Iranians that the 229 00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:17,631 Speaker 1: US was operating in good faith. The release of the 230 00:13:17,631 --> 00:13:20,231 Speaker 1: hostages was supposed to show the US that the Iranians 231 00:13:20,231 --> 00:13:20,671 Speaker 1: were too. 232 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:27,271 Speaker 17: Our sale of arms to Iran was an indication, we thought, 233 00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:31,511 Speaker 17: to Iran that the President was serious about this, and 234 00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:37,071 Speaker 17: there causing the release of hostis by proxy was an 235 00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:40,631 Speaker 17: indication of honesty and earnestness on their part. 236 00:13:41,310 --> 00:13:44,591 Speaker 1: One problem with Poindexter's explanation was that Reagan cared a 237 00:13:44,631 --> 00:13:46,951 Speaker 1: lot more about the hostages than he did about the 238 00:13:46,991 --> 00:13:51,351 Speaker 1: broader geopolitical strategy. Another problem was that the president didn't 239 00:13:51,430 --> 00:13:53,470 Speaker 1: seem to have a firm grasp on what had happened 240 00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:56,230 Speaker 1: or what he had personally approved. 241 00:13:56,790 --> 00:14:02,830 Speaker 17: Before the president's press conference, what we called a murder 242 00:14:02,871 --> 00:14:06,030 Speaker 17: board in the White House theater. 243 00:14:06,590 --> 00:14:09,351 Speaker 1: The murder board was essentially a rehearsal for the press. 244 00:14:09,151 --> 00:14:14,111 Speaker 17: Conference, and at one of these murder boards, the president 245 00:14:14,111 --> 00:14:17,710 Speaker 17: would be on the podium, the Press Secretary would play 246 00:14:17,710 --> 00:14:20,031 Speaker 17: the role of the media, asking questions. 247 00:14:20,511 --> 00:14:25,151 Speaker 1: As Poindexter watched Reagan practice his answers, he became very concerned. 248 00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:30,711 Speaker 17: That was when I first noticed that the President's memory 249 00:14:30,791 --> 00:14:35,911 Speaker 17: was failing, because the President would give an answer and 250 00:14:36,031 --> 00:14:41,071 Speaker 17: he would not have remembered the details of what had transpired. 251 00:14:41,631 --> 00:14:44,591 Speaker 17: So I would correct the president, tell him, this is 252 00:14:44,590 --> 00:14:46,951 Speaker 17: what I think you ought to say, and the President 253 00:14:46,951 --> 00:14:49,031 Speaker 17: would say right, and then he would come back to 254 00:14:49,071 --> 00:14:53,471 Speaker 17: the first question, and the President would not remember what 255 00:14:53,551 --> 00:14:56,871 Speaker 17: I had suggested to him to say. So at that 256 00:14:56,991 --> 00:14:59,231 Speaker 17: point I knew it was going to be difficult. 257 00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:12,191 Speaker 11: What do you mean, I have a few words here 258 00:15:12,351 --> 00:15:15,590 Speaker 11: before I take your questions some brief remarks. 259 00:15:16,151 --> 00:15:19,511 Speaker 1: At eight pm on November nineteenth, the President walked out 260 00:15:19,511 --> 00:15:21,431 Speaker 1: to a podium in the East Room of the White House. 261 00:15:22,071 --> 00:15:24,871 Speaker 1: He delivered a brief statement in which he echoed Poindexter's 262 00:15:24,871 --> 00:15:28,231 Speaker 1: talking points about the diplomatic opening to Iran. Then he 263 00:15:28,311 --> 00:15:31,271 Speaker 1: opened the floor to questions from the press. 264 00:15:31,351 --> 00:15:33,671 Speaker 12: If I can call up, if your armed shipments had 265 00:15:33,751 --> 00:15:37,191 Speaker 12: no effect on the release of the hostages, then how 266 00:15:37,231 --> 00:15:40,231 Speaker 12: do you explain the release of the hostages at the 267 00:15:40,231 --> 00:15:41,830 Speaker 12: same time that the shipments were coming out? 268 00:15:42,111 --> 00:15:45,031 Speaker 11: Now, I said that at the time, I said to 269 00:15:45,071 --> 00:15:48,071 Speaker 11: them that there was something they could do to show 270 00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:52,511 Speaker 11: their sincerity, and if they really meant it that they 271 00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:57,391 Speaker 11: were not in favor of backing terrorists, they could begin 272 00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:59,631 Speaker 11: by releasing our hostages. 273 00:16:00,271 --> 00:16:03,271 Speaker 1: Even as he pushed Poindexter's high minded rationale for the 274 00:16:03,351 --> 00:16:06,791 Speaker 1: arm sales, Reagan struggled to explain how the hostages fit 275 00:16:06,830 --> 00:16:09,511 Speaker 1: into it, and who exactly the US had been dealing 276 00:16:09,511 --> 00:16:09,911 Speaker 1: with in a. 277 00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:13,831 Speaker 13: How did you know that you were reaching the moderates 278 00:16:13,871 --> 00:16:16,191 Speaker 13: and how do you define a moderate in that kind 279 00:16:16,231 --> 00:16:16,871 Speaker 13: of a government. 280 00:16:17,191 --> 00:16:22,151 Speaker 11: Well, again, you're asking questions that I cannot get into. 281 00:16:22,191 --> 00:16:24,311 Speaker 11: With regard of the answers, but believe me, we had 282 00:16:24,351 --> 00:16:27,990 Speaker 11: information that led us to believe that there are factions 283 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:31,551 Speaker 11: within Iran, and many of them with an eye toward 284 00:16:31,631 --> 00:16:33,991 Speaker 11: the fact that they think sooner rather than later, there 285 00:16:34,071 --> 00:16:36,350 Speaker 11: is going to be a change in the government there, 286 00:16:36,391 --> 00:16:38,551 Speaker 11: and there is great dissatisfaction among the people. 287 00:16:39,551 --> 00:16:43,590 Speaker 1: Something else happened during the press conference, too. Reagan repeatedly 288 00:16:43,631 --> 00:16:46,711 Speaker 1: denied any US involvement in the two arms shipments that 289 00:16:46,751 --> 00:16:50,830 Speaker 1: took place in nineteen eighty five. These were the shipments 290 00:16:50,871 --> 00:16:53,591 Speaker 1: that had started at all, the ones in which Israel 291 00:16:53,631 --> 00:16:58,271 Speaker 1: had served as the middleman. George Schultz, the Secretary of State, 292 00:16:58,671 --> 00:17:02,711 Speaker 1: knew the president's remarks have contained inaccuracies. The next day, 293 00:17:02,830 --> 00:17:04,830 Speaker 1: he confronted Reagan about it face to face. 294 00:17:05,391 --> 00:17:08,351 Speaker 10: I always had a pattern with him, whenever he gave 295 00:17:08,391 --> 00:17:12,191 Speaker 10: a speech or a pres we'd have a talk afterwards, 296 00:17:12,191 --> 00:17:15,350 Speaker 10: and I'd give him my reactions. And my reaction was, 297 00:17:15,471 --> 00:17:17,470 Speaker 10: you told a lot of things that weren't true. You 298 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:20,830 Speaker 10: think they're true, and they've been fed to you by 299 00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:24,950 Speaker 10: your staff, and they're not true. And if you would like, 300 00:17:24,991 --> 00:17:26,791 Speaker 10: I will come over to the White House and go 301 00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:29,231 Speaker 10: through them with you. And he invited more. 302 00:17:29,031 --> 00:17:32,831 Speaker 1: Over Schultz met with Reagan in the White House residence. 303 00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:36,551 Speaker 10: And I went through specific things that he said and 304 00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:40,791 Speaker 10: then pointed out why they weren't right. And he was 305 00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:44,150 Speaker 10: baffled because he thought his staff had given me his 306 00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:47,791 Speaker 10: factual information and he assumed they were right, which it 307 00:17:47,951 --> 00:17:51,110 Speaker 10: wasn't true. I never thought I'd talk to a President 308 00:17:51,150 --> 00:17:52,191 Speaker 10: of the United States that way. 309 00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:59,031 Speaker 1: While the President tried to contain the scandal in public, 310 00:17:59,791 --> 00:18:02,670 Speaker 1: his administration was trying to take control of it behind 311 00:18:02,711 --> 00:18:06,750 Speaker 1: the scenes. The effort was led by Reagan's Attorney General, 312 00:18:07,431 --> 00:18:11,631 Speaker 1: ed mess. Mee was a longtime member of the president's 313 00:18:11,671 --> 00:18:14,511 Speaker 1: inner circle. He had been at Reagan's side back in 314 00:18:14,551 --> 00:18:17,751 Speaker 1: the sixties when Reagan was the governor of California, and 315 00:18:17,791 --> 00:18:20,151 Speaker 1: he'd followed him to the White House in nineteen eighty one. 316 00:18:21,431 --> 00:18:24,830 Speaker 1: Mess's decades of experience as a Reagan whisperer made him 317 00:18:24,830 --> 00:18:28,190 Speaker 1: a uniquely powerful adviser Reagan's alter ego. 318 00:18:28,431 --> 00:18:31,271 Speaker 9: It is true that first and foremost he's loyal to 319 00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:32,071 Speaker 9: Ronald Reagan. 320 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:36,151 Speaker 11: Ed Mees, whether by instinct or by design, is Ronald 321 00:18:36,191 --> 00:18:36,991 Speaker 11: Reagan's man. 322 00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:38,791 Speaker 1: Here's journalist Jane Mayer again. 323 00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:41,590 Speaker 7: He was kind of the keeper of the flame. Of 324 00:18:41,671 --> 00:18:46,590 Speaker 7: the kind of conservative values that Reagan served and supported. 325 00:18:46,830 --> 00:18:48,671 Speaker 7: He was a loyalist extraordinaire. 326 00:18:49,991 --> 00:18:53,071 Speaker 1: Toward the end of Reagan's first term, he nominated Mees 327 00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:57,190 Speaker 1: to be Attorney General. It was a controversial choice, what 328 00:18:57,271 --> 00:18:59,350 Speaker 1: if mess ended up having to investigate his friend. 329 00:18:59,870 --> 00:19:02,551 Speaker 15: Meies came under sharp questioning from members of the Senate 330 00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:05,910 Speaker 15: Judiciary Committee, concerned whether he would be the president's or 331 00:19:05,991 --> 00:19:07,110 Speaker 15: the people's lawyer. 332 00:19:07,271 --> 00:19:09,590 Speaker 9: We have learned the evil lesson of Watergate. 333 00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:12,991 Speaker 5: Drshowitz, Professor of Criminal law at Harvard University. 334 00:19:13,031 --> 00:19:16,390 Speaker 9: When you have a political operative in the position of 335 00:19:16,431 --> 00:19:20,151 Speaker 9: Attorney general, it creates an inherent conflict of interest. 336 00:19:20,551 --> 00:19:22,830 Speaker 1: After more than a year of questions about that and 337 00:19:22,911 --> 00:19:26,470 Speaker 1: other controversies, Meis was confirmed by the Senate, and the 338 00:19:26,511 --> 00:19:29,150 Speaker 1: closest vote for an Attorney general in sixty years. 339 00:19:29,551 --> 00:19:32,031 Speaker 15: Edwin mess was finally sworn in today as the new 340 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:35,150 Speaker 15: U s Attorney General. The Senate voted sixty three to 341 00:19:35,231 --> 00:19:38,391 Speaker 15: thirty one to confirm MEAs on Saturday. The vote came 342 00:19:38,431 --> 00:19:39,430 Speaker 15: after a filibuster. 343 00:19:42,511 --> 00:19:45,791 Speaker 1: In January of nineteen eighty six, shortly after the first 344 00:19:45,791 --> 00:19:49,190 Speaker 1: two weapons shipments to Iran, Meis was asked to provide 345 00:19:49,231 --> 00:19:52,830 Speaker 1: a legal opinion about the initiative. Some of the president's 346 00:19:52,830 --> 00:19:55,751 Speaker 1: advisors have been preparing a so called finding for the 347 00:19:55,751 --> 00:19:59,271 Speaker 1: president to sign. A finding was a kind of document 348 00:19:59,311 --> 00:20:03,350 Speaker 1: that formally authorized covert actions, in this case, the secret 349 00:20:03,431 --> 00:20:07,430 Speaker 1: arm sales. According to law, the White House had to 350 00:20:07,471 --> 00:20:11,151 Speaker 1: notify Congress whenever the President signed a co overt action finding, 351 00:20:11,711 --> 00:20:14,071 Speaker 1: and they had to do it in a quote timely fashion. 352 00:20:14,711 --> 00:20:17,031 Speaker 1: But Meis concluded it was fine to hold off on 353 00:20:17,071 --> 00:20:20,231 Speaker 1: telling Congress about the arm sales until after the hostages 354 00:20:20,231 --> 00:20:24,110 Speaker 1: were released. Nearly a year later, Congress still had not 355 00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:28,230 Speaker 1: been informed. Two days after Reagan's press conference in the 356 00:20:28,231 --> 00:20:32,151 Speaker 1: East Room, mess undertook an internal investigation to figure out 357 00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:35,671 Speaker 1: the facts. The president could not afford to keep making 358 00:20:35,751 --> 00:20:39,710 Speaker 1: public statements based on incomplete information. It would be Miss's 359 00:20:39,791 --> 00:20:43,110 Speaker 1: job to cross reference everyone's stories and brief Reagan on 360 00:20:43,150 --> 00:20:46,911 Speaker 1: what he learned. Meeces would later testify that he conducted 361 00:20:46,911 --> 00:20:51,230 Speaker 1: the investigation on an informal basis as Reagan's counselor and friend, 362 00:20:51,551 --> 00:20:55,350 Speaker 1: rather than as the attorney general. Nevertheless, he staffed the 363 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:59,111 Speaker 1: project with officials from the Department of Justice that included 364 00:20:59,231 --> 00:21:02,471 Speaker 1: Charles Cooper, a thirty four year old attorney who oversaw 365 00:21:02,511 --> 00:21:03,670 Speaker 1: the Office of Legal Counsel. 366 00:21:04,511 --> 00:21:08,590 Speaker 18: It was not a publicly known or announced investigation. It 367 00:21:08,630 --> 00:21:12,311 Speaker 18: was in fact, very much in keeping with the fact 368 00:21:12,311 --> 00:21:17,831 Speaker 18: that the material of the investigation, that is, the essential facts, 369 00:21:17,951 --> 00:21:24,111 Speaker 18: the transactions, the subject matter of the investigation, remained classified. 370 00:21:25,071 --> 00:21:28,750 Speaker 1: It came to be called the Weekend Investigation. The idea 371 00:21:28,911 --> 00:21:31,271 Speaker 1: was that Meice and Cooper would do some digging and 372 00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:33,350 Speaker 1: be ready to present the facts to the President the 373 00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:34,471 Speaker 1: following Monday. 374 00:21:34,231 --> 00:21:38,191 Speaker 18: And the mission was to just get the facts, get 375 00:21:38,231 --> 00:21:41,631 Speaker 18: the truth. The worst thing that the administration could do 376 00:21:42,431 --> 00:21:48,230 Speaker 18: was advance a false narrative about all this. Once the 377 00:21:48,311 --> 00:21:53,350 Speaker 18: truth did come out, it would be exponentially worse politically 378 00:21:53,390 --> 00:21:56,431 Speaker 18: and otherwise legally for the President. 379 00:21:56,511 --> 00:22:00,751 Speaker 1: For his administration, the plan was to interview the people 380 00:22:00,751 --> 00:22:03,511 Speaker 1: most intimately involved in the arm sales and look through 381 00:22:03,551 --> 00:22:05,991 Speaker 1: memos and other documents that could shed light on how 382 00:22:05,991 --> 00:22:10,830 Speaker 1: the initiative had evolved. Meanwhile, two of the people closest 383 00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:14,430 Speaker 1: to the Iran weapons program, John Poindexter and Oliver North, 384 00:22:14,951 --> 00:22:20,431 Speaker 1: set about getting their affairs in order. Poindexter was concerned 385 00:22:20,431 --> 00:22:23,710 Speaker 1: about the earliest covert action finding that Reagan had signed 386 00:22:23,791 --> 00:22:27,150 Speaker 1: to cover the arm sales. The document had plainly stated 387 00:22:27,191 --> 00:22:31,551 Speaker 1: that the purpose of the initiative was to rescue American hostages. Later, 388 00:22:31,791 --> 00:22:34,430 Speaker 1: Reagan would sign other findings that listed other reasons for 389 00:22:34,471 --> 00:22:36,950 Speaker 1: the ARM sales, reasons that were more in line with 390 00:22:36,991 --> 00:22:41,791 Speaker 1: Poindexter's talking points about improving US relations with Iran. But 391 00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:45,430 Speaker 1: Poindexter still had the first version, and he was worried 392 00:22:45,471 --> 00:22:47,271 Speaker 1: that it would become a political liability. 393 00:22:47,870 --> 00:22:52,191 Speaker 17: I decided that the first version of the finding, which 394 00:22:52,311 --> 00:22:56,110 Speaker 17: was not a complete explanation of what we were doing, 395 00:22:56,951 --> 00:22:59,630 Speaker 17: was not important, and so I personally destroyed it. 396 00:23:00,150 --> 00:23:01,391 Speaker 19: How did you destroy it? 397 00:23:01,431 --> 00:23:05,430 Speaker 1: Earned it outside out in the back, like a coffee 398 00:23:05,471 --> 00:23:05,991 Speaker 1: can or something. 399 00:23:06,350 --> 00:23:12,951 Speaker 17: Essentially it was a coffee can. Did that feel momentus momeatish? No, 400 00:23:13,071 --> 00:23:18,191 Speaker 17: not really. I hadn't liked that version of the finding 401 00:23:18,271 --> 00:23:20,151 Speaker 17: to begin with, and it was good riddance. 402 00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:24,991 Speaker 1: Oliver North had similar instincts. He had been informed that 403 00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:28,350 Speaker 1: DOJ officials working with Edmeice and Charles Cooper were planning 404 00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:30,191 Speaker 1: to come to his office to look through his files. 405 00:23:30,751 --> 00:23:32,071 Speaker 1: Here again is Jane Mayer. 406 00:23:32,590 --> 00:23:36,630 Speaker 7: Mees didn't just rush in and seize their files as 407 00:23:36,671 --> 00:23:40,071 Speaker 7: the FBI might have, which gave them notice that if 408 00:23:40,071 --> 00:23:42,230 Speaker 7: there was anything in there, maybe they better take care 409 00:23:42,271 --> 00:23:42,510 Speaker 7: of it. 410 00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:45,830 Speaker 1: North would later testify that his priority during this time 411 00:23:45,991 --> 00:23:49,590 Speaker 1: was to protect government secrets. One of those secrets was 412 00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:52,031 Speaker 1: the diversion of profits from the Iran arm sales to 413 00:23:52,071 --> 00:23:55,150 Speaker 1: the Contras. As part of his effort to conceal some 414 00:23:55,231 --> 00:23:59,110 Speaker 1: of his activities, North asked his secretary, Vaughn Hall, to 415 00:23:59,191 --> 00:24:03,471 Speaker 1: help him alter documents, like retype them with entire sentences deleted. 416 00:24:04,311 --> 00:24:07,151 Speaker 1: But some documents were apparently beyond redemption. 417 00:24:08,311 --> 00:24:12,271 Speaker 7: They fed so many into the shredder that was in 418 00:24:12,350 --> 00:24:16,430 Speaker 7: the NSC that it jammed. It was just, you know, 419 00:24:16,991 --> 00:24:20,551 Speaker 7: just a complete obstruction of evidence party taking place as 420 00:24:20,590 --> 00:24:22,231 Speaker 7: they shredded everything in sight. 421 00:24:30,791 --> 00:24:34,511 Speaker 1: The next day, two DOJ staffers working on Edmes's weekend 422 00:24:34,551 --> 00:24:39,231 Speaker 1: investigation came to North's office. North himself wasn't in yet 423 00:24:39,271 --> 00:24:42,670 Speaker 1: when the staffers, Brad Reynolds and John Richardson arrived and 424 00:24:42,711 --> 00:24:46,391 Speaker 1: started going through a stack of folders. Here's Ann Roe, 425 00:24:46,711 --> 00:24:49,751 Speaker 1: an editor at The Economist and author of Lives Lies 426 00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:51,150 Speaker 1: and the Iran Contra Affair. 427 00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:55,110 Speaker 14: They're trying to be very quiet. Actually, they imbibed this 428 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:58,350 Speaker 14: air of sort of high secrecy that goes around North 429 00:24:58,390 --> 00:25:01,471 Speaker 14: I mean they're behaving a bit like secret agents themselves, 430 00:25:01,551 --> 00:25:04,390 Speaker 14: these two officials that they're writing notes to each other, 431 00:25:04,471 --> 00:25:06,751 Speaker 14: they're not actually speaking to each other or just whispering. 432 00:25:07,271 --> 00:25:09,590 Speaker 1: Reynolds and Richardson planned to go through the folders and 433 00:25:09,630 --> 00:25:13,151 Speaker 1: North thought flagging important documents. They wanted a photocopy as 434 00:25:13,150 --> 00:25:13,471 Speaker 1: they went. 435 00:25:13,791 --> 00:25:16,031 Speaker 14: So they're looking through the folders and they're about three 436 00:25:16,071 --> 00:25:20,431 Speaker 14: folders in and they've suddenly come upon this Manila folder 437 00:25:20,671 --> 00:25:23,791 Speaker 14: with wh written on it. It's quite a thin folder, 438 00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:28,231 Speaker 14: not much in it and a close type document, no spacing, 439 00:25:28,551 --> 00:25:30,631 Speaker 14: and they have a look at it. 440 00:25:31,031 --> 00:25:34,071 Speaker 1: The document was a five page memo titled Release of 441 00:25:34,110 --> 00:25:35,870 Speaker 1: American Hostages in Beirut. 442 00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:40,791 Speaker 14: There's a paragraph in there that says residual funds allocated 443 00:25:40,830 --> 00:25:45,150 Speaker 14: as follows twelve point two million dollars to supply the 444 00:25:45,191 --> 00:25:47,271 Speaker 14: Democratic Nicaraguan resistance. 445 00:25:49,551 --> 00:25:52,150 Speaker 1: The document would come to be known simply as the 446 00:25:52,231 --> 00:25:56,391 Speaker 1: Diversion Memo. It laid out how millions of dollars generated 447 00:25:56,431 --> 00:25:59,230 Speaker 1: by the arm shipments to Iran could be diverted to 448 00:25:59,271 --> 00:26:03,430 Speaker 1: the contras in Nicaragua. Reynolds and Richardson were taken aback. 449 00:26:04,271 --> 00:26:07,271 Speaker 14: They both had the same reaction to this, that it's 450 00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:10,751 Speaker 14: too spectacular, that it's too extraordinary to think it ever happened. 451 00:26:11,751 --> 00:26:13,870 Speaker 1: Reynolds hid the memo in the stack of papers he 452 00:26:13,911 --> 00:26:14,710 Speaker 1: intended to copy. 453 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:17,830 Speaker 14: You might wonder at this point why North was so 454 00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:20,831 Speaker 14: happy to leave these two folks in his office where 455 00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:23,470 Speaker 14: there was something as explosive as a diversion memo just 456 00:26:23,671 --> 00:26:26,391 Speaker 14: sitting there. The reason was that there being a complete 457 00:26:26,590 --> 00:26:41,511 Speaker 14: orgy of shredding going on in this office. 458 00:26:45,271 --> 00:26:47,750 Speaker 1: Reynolds and Richardson hurried to tell ed Meice what they 459 00:26:47,751 --> 00:26:50,311 Speaker 1: had found. On their way out of the office, they 460 00:26:50,350 --> 00:26:52,911 Speaker 1: ran into Oliver North and told him they were about 461 00:26:52,951 --> 00:26:55,791 Speaker 1: to take a break for lunch. Then they met mess 462 00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:58,390 Speaker 1: and Charles Cooper at the old Ebbitt Grill about a 463 00:26:58,390 --> 00:27:01,191 Speaker 1: block away from the White House. Here's Cooper again. 464 00:27:01,431 --> 00:27:04,831 Speaker 18: We were in a booth, Our voices were lowered. We 465 00:27:05,150 --> 00:27:09,430 Speaker 18: took care to make sure that our conversation wasn't overheard. 466 00:27:10,231 --> 00:27:14,590 Speaker 18: Vividly remember ed Mees's reaction, because as we all listened 467 00:27:14,590 --> 00:27:21,071 Speaker 18: to him, we immediately understood the potential import of what 468 00:27:21,271 --> 00:27:26,150 Speaker 18: Brad was telling us, and so we were all wide 469 00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:32,110 Speaker 18: eyed and jaws dropped. Ed simply said, oh shit. 470 00:27:35,071 --> 00:27:37,870 Speaker 1: The next day, mis met with North the Department of 471 00:27:37,991 --> 00:27:39,951 Speaker 1: Justice to confront him with the smoking gun. 472 00:27:40,271 --> 00:27:42,830 Speaker 14: Meats had been a prosecutor for years and he knew 473 00:27:42,870 --> 00:27:46,191 Speaker 14: how to do this, and so they go all over 474 00:27:46,231 --> 00:27:48,750 Speaker 14: the arms sells and chat about this and that and 475 00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:51,951 Speaker 14: so on. The North he's very relaxed and answering the questions, 476 00:27:52,191 --> 00:27:56,390 Speaker 14: and then miss suddenly says what about this and hands 477 00:27:56,431 --> 00:27:59,111 Speaker 14: him over the diversion memo. 478 00:27:59,590 --> 00:28:03,071 Speaker 18: And Ali was taken aback that Ed knew about it. 479 00:28:03,271 --> 00:28:07,071 Speaker 18: His demeanor just betrayed the fact that he wasn't expecting 480 00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:07,711 Speaker 18: that question. 481 00:28:07,991 --> 00:28:11,911 Speaker 14: He says something like I missed one. So Mey said, 482 00:28:11,911 --> 00:28:14,830 Speaker 14: well did this happen? And all said yes. 483 00:28:15,671 --> 00:28:18,910 Speaker 1: After his meeting with Mees, North tried to call Poindexter 484 00:28:18,991 --> 00:28:22,710 Speaker 1: to tell him the diversion had been discovered, but Poindexter 485 00:28:22,830 --> 00:28:26,150 Speaker 1: wasn't reachable. North then returned to his office, where he 486 00:28:26,150 --> 00:28:30,670 Speaker 1: stayed until four fifteen in the morning, shredding more documents. Meanwhile, 487 00:28:31,071 --> 00:28:33,750 Speaker 1: Ed Mee and Charles Cooper knew they were holding a 488 00:28:33,751 --> 00:28:34,311 Speaker 1: time bomb. 489 00:28:34,830 --> 00:28:40,151 Speaker 18: The most important implication of this, and ed Mees grasped 490 00:28:40,191 --> 00:28:46,391 Speaker 18: it immediately, was that this information is something that the 491 00:28:46,431 --> 00:28:51,311 Speaker 18: president must number one know immediately, and Number two that 492 00:28:51,391 --> 00:28:58,071 Speaker 18: the President must disclose publicly. It was inevitable that something 493 00:28:58,231 --> 00:29:02,351 Speaker 18: like that was going to surface into the public domain 494 00:29:02,591 --> 00:29:05,711 Speaker 18: that this had happened, and if it surfaced through any 495 00:29:05,791 --> 00:29:10,791 Speaker 18: other means other than the president's public disclosure, it would 496 00:29:10,871 --> 00:29:14,551 Speaker 18: be denounced as a cover up, regardless of what the 497 00:29:14,591 --> 00:29:15,551 Speaker 18: real facts were. 498 00:29:16,991 --> 00:29:19,831 Speaker 1: On Monday, November twenty fourth, Mess went to the White 499 00:29:19,831 --> 00:29:22,751 Speaker 1: House to tell Reagan what his weekend investigation had uncovered. 500 00:29:23,831 --> 00:29:26,111 Speaker 1: He told the President that Oliver North had been taking 501 00:29:26,151 --> 00:29:28,591 Speaker 1: money from the Iran weapons sales and giving it to 502 00:29:28,631 --> 00:29:29,471 Speaker 1: the Contras. 503 00:29:29,951 --> 00:29:35,631 Speaker 18: Ed made that report in a very tightly controlled meeting 504 00:29:35,671 --> 00:29:41,031 Speaker 18: with the President and his firm recommendation that this information 505 00:29:41,151 --> 00:29:45,031 Speaker 18: be made public as quickly as it reasonably could be. 506 00:29:46,471 --> 00:29:48,791 Speaker 1: Reagan wrote about the meeting in his diary. That night, 507 00:29:49,711 --> 00:29:52,710 Speaker 1: Ed m told me of a smoking gun our Colonel 508 00:29:52,751 --> 00:29:55,911 Speaker 1: North gave the money to the Contras. North didn't tell 509 00:29:55,911 --> 00:30:00,551 Speaker 1: me about this. This may call for resignations. It soon 510 00:30:00,631 --> 00:30:04,831 Speaker 1: became clear that John Poindexter North, supervisor the National Security Council, 511 00:30:05,031 --> 00:30:08,271 Speaker 1: had been in on the diversion two. Reagan and Mess 512 00:30:08,351 --> 00:30:11,511 Speaker 1: agreed that the situation was so radioactive that the only 513 00:30:11,551 --> 00:30:14,591 Speaker 1: option was to announce it publicly and force Poindexter and 514 00:30:14,631 --> 00:30:17,391 Speaker 1: North out of the White House. It would be a 515 00:30:17,471 --> 00:30:20,511 Speaker 1: huge news story no matter what, but maybe they could 516 00:30:20,551 --> 00:30:24,791 Speaker 1: control the narrative. The next day, John Poindexter was asked 517 00:30:24,831 --> 00:30:25,311 Speaker 1: to resign. 518 00:30:26,111 --> 00:30:31,711 Speaker 17: I knew that it would be controversial that I had 519 00:30:31,751 --> 00:30:37,111 Speaker 17: approved the use of the excess profits without telling the president. 520 00:30:38,111 --> 00:30:41,511 Speaker 17: I wanted him to have some distance from that decision, 521 00:30:42,351 --> 00:30:45,470 Speaker 17: and I thought the way to put emphasis on that 522 00:30:45,751 --> 00:30:48,511 Speaker 17: was to resign. You know, I had taken a risk, 523 00:30:49,391 --> 00:30:50,271 Speaker 17: and I had lost. 524 00:30:53,031 --> 00:30:56,351 Speaker 1: North drafted resignation letter too, but before he could leave 525 00:30:56,391 --> 00:30:58,551 Speaker 1: on his own terms, he was fired from the NSC 526 00:30:58,631 --> 00:31:01,631 Speaker 1: staff and reassigned to another job in the Marine Corps. 527 00:31:02,111 --> 00:31:04,710 Speaker 1: It was decided that Reagan would deliver yet another public 528 00:31:04,751 --> 00:31:07,751 Speaker 1: statement on the scandal that was now being called Iran Gate. 529 00:31:08,871 --> 00:31:11,111 Speaker 1: This time it would be a press conference including both 530 00:31:11,151 --> 00:31:14,271 Speaker 1: Reagan and Mees, and they would disclose the results of 531 00:31:14,311 --> 00:31:19,911 Speaker 1: mesa's weekend investigation. Just before the press conference began, Richard Seacord, 532 00:31:19,951 --> 00:31:22,151 Speaker 1: the retired Air Force general who had worked on both 533 00:31:22,151 --> 00:31:25,551 Speaker 1: the contrary supply effort and the Iran weapons sales, called 534 00:31:25,591 --> 00:31:29,431 Speaker 1: Poindexter on the phone. Seacord begged Poindexter not to give 535 00:31:29,471 --> 00:31:32,111 Speaker 1: up and resign, telling him he should force the President 536 00:31:32,111 --> 00:31:34,270 Speaker 1: to step up to the plate and take responsibility for 537 00:31:34,271 --> 00:31:37,311 Speaker 1: his actions. But Poindexter told him it was all over. 538 00:31:38,111 --> 00:31:40,591 Speaker 1: You don't understand, he said, According to the Sea Coords memoir, 539 00:31:41,151 --> 00:31:43,591 Speaker 1: it's too late. They're building a wall around. 540 00:31:43,391 --> 00:31:48,871 Speaker 17: Him to isolate him from the use of the excess province, 541 00:31:49,471 --> 00:31:53,591 Speaker 17: which again we didn't think there was any illegal about it, 542 00:31:53,871 --> 00:31:57,911 Speaker 17: but it would be controversial. One of the problems that 543 00:31:57,991 --> 00:32:02,631 Speaker 17: I saw at the time was that I was beginning 544 00:32:02,671 --> 00:32:06,471 Speaker 17: to question whether the President could really defend the initiative, 545 00:32:06,711 --> 00:32:09,351 Speaker 17: whether he could explain it to the American public. 546 00:32:15,951 --> 00:32:28,591 Speaker 19: We'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen, the President of 547 00:32:28,631 --> 00:32:29,510 Speaker 19: the United States. 548 00:32:31,391 --> 00:32:35,391 Speaker 1: On November twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, Ronald Reagan gave 549 00:32:35,431 --> 00:32:38,591 Speaker 1: a press conference to make public what he'd learned. He 550 00:32:38,711 --> 00:32:39,951 Speaker 1: kept things pretty vague. 551 00:32:40,911 --> 00:32:45,750 Speaker 11: Last Friday, after becoming concern whether my national security apparatus 552 00:32:45,751 --> 00:32:49,231 Speaker 11: had provided me with a security or a complete factual 553 00:32:49,351 --> 00:32:53,151 Speaker 11: record with respect to the implementation of my policy toward Iran, 554 00:32:53,991 --> 00:32:56,511 Speaker 11: I directed the Attorney General to undertake a review of 555 00:32:56,511 --> 00:32:59,311 Speaker 11: this matter over the weekend and report to me on 556 00:32:59,431 --> 00:33:03,631 Speaker 11: Monday and yesterday Secretary Meice provided me in the White 557 00:33:03,631 --> 00:33:07,311 Speaker 11: House Chief of Staff with a report on his preliminary findings, 558 00:33:07,951 --> 00:33:10,551 Speaker 11: and this report led me to conclude that I was 559 00:33:10,591 --> 00:33:12,671 Speaker 11: not fully informed on the nature of one of the 560 00:33:12,711 --> 00:33:16,911 Speaker 11: activities undertaken in connection with this initiative, This action raises. 561 00:33:16,911 --> 00:33:20,031 Speaker 1: When he was finished speaking, Reagan stepped aside and Edmeese 562 00:33:20,031 --> 00:33:23,831 Speaker 1: took his place at the microphone, why don't. 563 00:33:23,631 --> 00:33:25,311 Speaker 17: I tell you what is the situation? 564 00:33:25,431 --> 00:33:27,470 Speaker 1: And then Jane Mayer was covering the White House for 565 00:33:27,511 --> 00:33:29,751 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal at the time, and she was 566 00:33:29,791 --> 00:33:31,471 Speaker 1: watching the press conference as it happened. 567 00:33:32,271 --> 00:33:35,751 Speaker 7: It was an unusual thing to see this tubby barrel 568 00:33:35,791 --> 00:33:38,151 Speaker 7: of a man come in with his pink face, and 569 00:33:38,231 --> 00:33:40,511 Speaker 7: he goes up to the podium and he kind of 570 00:33:40,631 --> 00:33:46,791 Speaker 7: matter of factly lays out this completely astounding story. 571 00:33:47,231 --> 00:33:53,750 Speaker 13: Certain monies which were received in the transaction were taken 572 00:33:54,151 --> 00:34:01,151 Speaker 13: and made available to the forces in Central America. The 573 00:34:01,191 --> 00:34:04,591 Speaker 13: President knew nothing about it until I reported it to him. 574 00:34:04,591 --> 00:34:07,471 Speaker 13: I alerted him yesterday morning we still had some more 575 00:34:07,511 --> 00:34:09,631 Speaker 13: work to do, and then I gave him the detail 576 00:34:09,631 --> 00:34:11,071 Speaker 13: that we had yesterday afternoon. 577 00:34:12,191 --> 00:34:15,311 Speaker 3: Who in the NSC was aware that this extra amount 578 00:34:15,311 --> 00:34:18,391 Speaker 3: of money was being transferred to the so called contras 579 00:34:18,471 --> 00:34:19,391 Speaker 3: or under their control. 580 00:34:19,831 --> 00:34:23,511 Speaker 13: The only person's in the United States government that knew 581 00:34:24,311 --> 00:34:28,791 Speaker 13: precisely about this, The only person was Lieutenant Colonel North. 582 00:34:30,391 --> 00:34:32,830 Speaker 7: I mean, it was unbelievable. It was the craziest thing, 583 00:34:33,031 --> 00:34:35,231 Speaker 7: and he was just sort of matter of factly running 584 00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:39,071 Speaker 7: through it. We realized that, at least I realized that 585 00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:40,471 Speaker 7: I'd missed the whole story. 586 00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:43,790 Speaker 1: Charles Cooper, the DOJ official who had worked with me 587 00:34:43,951 --> 00:34:46,951 Speaker 1: on the weekend investigation, was watching the press conference with 588 00:34:47,031 --> 00:34:48,711 Speaker 1: Secretary of State George Schultz. 589 00:34:48,991 --> 00:34:51,671 Speaker 18: I was in the kind of the control room, just 590 00:34:51,710 --> 00:34:54,830 Speaker 18: off the briefing room, and I was watching it on 591 00:34:54,911 --> 00:34:59,871 Speaker 18: a monitor in that control room, and I remember vividly 592 00:35:00,551 --> 00:35:05,071 Speaker 18: after that was done, George Schultz basically turning from the 593 00:35:05,230 --> 00:35:09,790 Speaker 18: TV monitors, standing right next to me and looking at 594 00:35:09,831 --> 00:35:13,191 Speaker 18: me and saying good job, and then walking out. 595 00:35:17,631 --> 00:35:22,910 Speaker 1: Things moved very quickly after that. On Thursday, November twenty seventh, Thanksgiving, 596 00:35:23,351 --> 00:35:26,351 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Times reported that Oliver North had shredded 597 00:35:26,431 --> 00:35:28,710 Speaker 1: reams of documents that could have been used as evidence. 598 00:35:29,671 --> 00:35:31,911 Speaker 1: It was starting to feel a lot like Watergate. 599 00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:35,711 Speaker 9: Reporters attempted to ask Oliver North at his home today 600 00:35:35,911 --> 00:35:39,390 Speaker 9: about published stories that he had destroyed documents which may 601 00:35:39,431 --> 00:35:41,471 Speaker 9: have shed light on the Iran arm scandal. 602 00:35:42,111 --> 00:35:44,830 Speaker 20: At the appropriate time and in the appropriate forum, I 603 00:35:44,871 --> 00:35:48,710 Speaker 20: will make a full exposition, and I will do so 604 00:35:48,871 --> 00:35:51,750 Speaker 20: on the advice of my attorney. I would suggest that 605 00:35:51,791 --> 00:35:54,551 Speaker 20: you all go home and thank God for the blessings 606 00:35:54,551 --> 00:35:55,551 Speaker 20: of the beautiful country. 607 00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:57,830 Speaker 9: North later tried to visit the White House, but was 608 00:35:57,871 --> 00:36:00,271 Speaker 9: told he could not enter under any circumstances. 609 00:36:00,551 --> 00:36:04,031 Speaker 1: On December first, Reagan announced the creation of the Tower Commission, 610 00:36:04,511 --> 00:36:07,270 Speaker 1: a group of three former political leaders who would investigate 611 00:36:07,351 --> 00:36:10,430 Speaker 1: what went wrong in the White House chain of command. Then, 612 00:36:10,591 --> 00:36:14,271 Speaker 1: on December twod Reagan convinced Edmeese to request the appointment 613 00:36:14,311 --> 00:36:17,871 Speaker 1: of an independent council, a move enabled by reforms that 614 00:36:17,911 --> 00:36:19,230 Speaker 1: were enacted after Watergate. 615 00:36:19,431 --> 00:36:21,951 Speaker 3: The twenty General Niece's turning over the case to an 616 00:36:21,951 --> 00:36:23,031 Speaker 3: independent council. 617 00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:26,431 Speaker 4: Lawrence Walsh, a former judge and former Deputy Attorney General, 618 00:36:26,791 --> 00:36:29,311 Speaker 4: will be the man to search for any criminal wrongdoing. 619 00:36:29,471 --> 00:36:32,711 Speaker 2: In appointing a special prosecutor and in ordering his senior 620 00:36:32,750 --> 00:36:36,270 Speaker 2: staff members to appear before it or Congress, Reagan was 621 00:36:36,311 --> 00:36:40,231 Speaker 2: doing what President Richard Nixon did not during Watergate, sweeping 622 00:36:40,270 --> 00:36:42,190 Speaker 2: away all suspicion of a cover. 623 00:36:42,071 --> 00:36:47,551 Speaker 1: Up between the Tower Commission and the Independent Council. The 624 00:36:47,551 --> 00:36:51,230 Speaker 1: White House was under scrutiny on multiple fronts. Congress was 625 00:36:51,230 --> 00:36:54,951 Speaker 1: starting up its own investigations too, and reporters were beginning 626 00:36:54,951 --> 00:36:56,591 Speaker 1: to ask questions about Edmee. 627 00:36:57,071 --> 00:36:59,190 Speaker 3: Mees may be the Attorney General, but he is also 628 00:36:59,311 --> 00:37:02,671 Speaker 3: one of President Reagan's oldest and closest associates, and what 629 00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:04,151 Speaker 3: he says will be weighed here. 630 00:37:04,190 --> 00:37:06,750 Speaker 1: With that in mind, one of Mesa's colleagues of the 631 00:37:06,791 --> 00:37:09,631 Speaker 1: Department of Justice complained that the Criminal Division and even 632 00:37:09,671 --> 00:37:13,591 Speaker 1: the FB should have been involved in the fact finding mission. Later, 633 00:37:13,871 --> 00:37:16,511 Speaker 1: Mece would testify that his goal after the Iran story 634 00:37:16,551 --> 00:37:20,390 Speaker 1: broke had been to quote limit the damage. And when 635 00:37:20,391 --> 00:37:22,270 Speaker 1: you look at the way he went about the investigation, 636 00:37:22,911 --> 00:37:25,750 Speaker 1: giving people an opportunity to destroy documents that could never 637 00:37:25,791 --> 00:37:28,991 Speaker 1: be recovered, it's hard to feel like his top priority 638 00:37:29,071 --> 00:37:32,350 Speaker 1: was to get the full truth. I asked Charles Cooper 639 00:37:32,391 --> 00:37:34,910 Speaker 1: about that, whether the inquiry had been a good faith 640 00:37:34,991 --> 00:37:37,751 Speaker 1: effort or just another attempt at damage control. 641 00:37:38,471 --> 00:37:41,591 Speaker 18: I don't think there's a difference between getting to the 642 00:37:41,671 --> 00:37:45,710 Speaker 18: truth and controlling the damage at least in my view, 643 00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:48,270 Speaker 18: and I know ed me shares it. The one thing 644 00:37:48,270 --> 00:37:53,831 Speaker 18: that would be most damaging and most inevitably discovered, would 645 00:37:53,831 --> 00:37:57,871 Speaker 18: be an effort to present a false narrative to Congress 646 00:37:57,911 --> 00:38:01,631 Speaker 18: about something like this. So, to my mind, you know, 647 00:38:01,791 --> 00:38:07,750 Speaker 18: damage control and finding the facts were synonymous. You know, 648 00:38:07,871 --> 00:38:15,270 Speaker 18: I reject very firmly the skepticism about the genuineness I 649 00:38:15,311 --> 00:38:18,910 Speaker 18: guess of an effort to find the truth and to 650 00:38:18,951 --> 00:38:21,871 Speaker 18: disclose the truth. That was our mission. 651 00:38:23,111 --> 00:38:26,391 Speaker 1: In any event, the administration's attempts to minimize the scandal 652 00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:30,270 Speaker 1: seemed to have the opposite effect. Within a month of 653 00:38:30,270 --> 00:38:33,790 Speaker 1: the story becoming public, Reagan's approval rating had dropped by 654 00:38:33,831 --> 00:38:37,591 Speaker 1: twenty one percent. One poll found that ninety percent of 655 00:38:37,591 --> 00:38:42,071 Speaker 1: the American people believed he was lying about what he knew. Meanwhile, 656 00:38:42,190 --> 00:38:44,710 Speaker 1: from his home in Virginia, cut off from the job 657 00:38:44,791 --> 00:38:47,871 Speaker 1: he had loved so much, Oliver North was adjusting to 658 00:38:47,951 --> 00:38:49,390 Speaker 1: life as a public figure. 659 00:38:49,631 --> 00:38:51,830 Speaker 9: Just two blocks from the White House. After meeting with 660 00:38:51,871 --> 00:38:55,351 Speaker 9: his new criminal lawyer, North again refused to answer questions. 661 00:38:55,871 --> 00:38:57,831 Speaker 20: I would refer those questions to my attorney. 662 00:38:57,991 --> 00:39:00,790 Speaker 9: The questions set on reports confirmed by. 663 00:39:00,551 --> 00:39:03,431 Speaker 1: North was optimistic that once everything was out in the open, 664 00:39:03,591 --> 00:39:06,591 Speaker 1: people would see that his actions have been justified, maybe 665 00:39:06,671 --> 00:39:09,431 Speaker 1: even heroic. He said as much in a letter he 666 00:39:09,471 --> 00:39:12,071 Speaker 1: sent to John Poindexter the night before he was fired. 667 00:39:13,031 --> 00:39:15,230 Speaker 1: I remain convinced that what we tried to accomplish was 668 00:39:15,270 --> 00:39:19,390 Speaker 1: worth the risk, he wrote. We nearly succeeded. Hopefully when 669 00:39:19,431 --> 00:39:21,830 Speaker 1: the political fractricide is finished, there will be others who 670 00:39:21,831 --> 00:39:37,830 Speaker 1: will agree warmest reguards Semper Fidelis Oliver North. On the 671 00:39:37,871 --> 00:39:41,311 Speaker 1: next episode of Fiasco, Ali Mania. 672 00:39:41,471 --> 00:39:43,511 Speaker 7: She's coming off great on TV. 673 00:39:43,911 --> 00:39:45,231 Speaker 17: We're getting flooded with calls. 674 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:49,351 Speaker 7: People love him, and that's when they basically stopped asking 675 00:39:49,551 --> 00:39:50,511 Speaker 7: foocal questions. 676 00:39:51,511 --> 00:39:54,310 Speaker 1: For a list of books, articles, and documentaries we used 677 00:39:54,311 --> 00:39:56,751 Speaker 1: in our research, follow the link in the show notes. 678 00:39:57,471 --> 00:40:00,750 Speaker 1: Fiasco is a production of Prologue Projects and it's distributed 679 00:40:00,750 --> 00:40:05,271 Speaker 1: by Pushkin Industries. Shows produced by Andrew Parsons, Madeline Kaplan, 680 00:40:05,551 --> 00:40:09,991 Speaker 1: Ulla Kulpa, and me Leon Mayfock. Our editor was Camilla Hammer. 681 00:40:10,471 --> 00:40:14,991 Speaker 1: Our researcher was Francis Carr. Additional archival research from Caitlin Nicholas. 682 00:40:15,991 --> 00:40:18,750 Speaker 1: Our music is by Nick Filvester. Our theme song is 683 00:40:18,791 --> 00:40:22,151 Speaker 1: by Spatial Relations. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at 684 00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:26,311 Speaker 1: Chips n Y Audio mixed by Rob Buyers, Michael Rayphiel 685 00:40:26,391 --> 00:40:30,391 Speaker 1: and Johnny Vince Evans. Copyright council provided by Peter Yassi 686 00:40:30,511 --> 00:40:35,151 Speaker 1: at Yass Butler Plc. Thanks to Sam Graham Felsen, Sorea, 687 00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:38,871 Speaker 1: Shockley and Katchick and Kova. Special thanks to Luminary and 688 00:40:39,031 --> 00:40:56,671 Speaker 1: thank you for listening. Binge the entire season of Fiasco 689 00:40:56,791 --> 00:41:01,031 Speaker 1: Iran Contra ad free by subscribing to Pushkin Plus, sign 690 00:41:01,111 --> 00:41:03,911 Speaker 1: up on the Fiasco show page on Apple Podcasts or 691 00:41:03,951 --> 00:41:08,270 Speaker 1: at pushkin dot fm slash Plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers can 692 00:41:08,311 --> 00:41:12,591 Speaker 1: access ad free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus 693 00:41:12,631 --> 00:41:14,711 Speaker 1: content for all Pushkin podcasts