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Speaker 1: hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I
Speaker 1: am Joe Joint as always, by and Steve and uh.
Speaker 1: This week it's time for another fascinating mystery. We're going
Speaker 1: to talk about what they call in the Philippines. See
Speaker 1: Michael my Ring Mystery. Michael Myering was a shadowy person
Speaker 1: and uh, well, nobody knows exactly what he was or
Speaker 1: because he claimed to be a treasure hunter. Some people
Speaker 1: thought he might have been something else, like maybe a
Speaker 1: terrorist or a CIA operative. Well, we'll tell you everything
Speaker 1: you need to know and you can make up your
Speaker 1: own mind. Well, by the way, I want to quick aside,
Speaker 1: I want to thank Landon who suggested this. Thanks dude,
Speaker 1: appreciate it if you are a dude. By the way,
Speaker 1: that anyway, but thanks Landing. So let me let's start
Speaker 1: from the beginning here. The date was May sixteen, two
Speaker 1: thousand two. So, yeah, there's an old turn of the
Speaker 1: century story. Uh. Yeah, remember the turn of the century. Yeah,
Speaker 1: things are a lot different. Cars looked a little different.
Speaker 1: Hair was longer or maybe shorter. I don't remember it. Both.
Speaker 1: Cellphones was different. Yeah, hair, it was different. Cell phones
Speaker 1: remember cellphones that they were big? Uh they were big.
Speaker 1: This started kind of big, okay. Um. So May sixteen,
Speaker 1: two thousand two, there was an explosion in room three
Speaker 1: oh five at the Evergreen Hotel in Davo. Mend to
Speaker 1: now the Philippines. So as you know, men and now
Speaker 1: is that big island at the south end of the
Speaker 1: archipelago that is the Philippines. Uh, and it was a
Speaker 1: big city there, and uh, there have been other terrorist
Speaker 1: bombings which had recently been taking place across the Philippines. Uh,
Speaker 1: and there was a big one just three weeks before.
Speaker 1: They killed fifteen people wounded fifty five. So a while
Speaker 1: bombing going on, people are a little bit on edge, understandably,
Speaker 1: So there's an explosion in room three oh five at
Speaker 1: the hotel was occupied by a band named Michael Terrence
Speaker 1: my Ring, who was an American oncologist that's a cancer
Speaker 1: doctor for those who them. Now. He'd been a regular
Speaker 1: guest at this hotel for the past eight to ten years.
Speaker 1: He's been spending a lot of time in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: says the early nineteen nineties, and on his most recent visit,
Speaker 1: he checked into the Evergreen Hotel December fourteen, two thousand one.
Speaker 1: Several months before that's yeah, it's like six months before.
Speaker 1: Four months before, yeah, I guess six months. He seemed
Speaker 1: to frequent the same hotels. There was I think it
Speaker 1: was like three different hotels that he liked to stay at,
Speaker 1: depending on where he was. Yeah, and he spent like
Speaker 1: somewhere from six to eight months a year in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: so he was a regular at these places. I'm surprised
Speaker 1: he didn't try to find time shares. I was just
Speaker 1: going to even just buy a house, yeah, rent an apartment, yeah,
Speaker 1: for the exchange rate from what I know, the exchange
Speaker 1: rate in the Philippines. Like you can it doesn't take
Speaker 1: very much American dollars to live like a king in
Speaker 1: the Philippines. So I don't know why buiep. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can hire a housekeeper for pretty cheap there. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm guessing maybe he just decided it was
Speaker 1: easier not to and why he was doing it this
Speaker 1: way might have been a commitment fobe. Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: might have been. It might have been one of these
Speaker 1: people like my dad was kind of this way. He
Speaker 1: just didn't want to buy into real estate because he
Speaker 1: was sure the bubble was going to burst. My dad
Speaker 1: was totally right about that. He was just stopped by
Speaker 1: several decades. I mean, if you maintain that for long enough,
Speaker 1: it will eventually be true. Oh, totally true. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: whatever the reasons he was staying at this hotel. Uh, so,
Speaker 1: of course there had been a big kaboom. The police,
Speaker 1: paramedics show up. They found that Myering was pretty mangled.
Speaker 1: His legs were really badly mangled. Unfortunately they had to
Speaker 1: be amputated. So they were amputated because some of the
Speaker 1: stories just talked about how they were he was wounded
Speaker 1: and messed up. Yeah. Once the one version I read
Speaker 1: that only one leg was amputated, but most, mostly the
Speaker 1: more authoritative ones like in the Manila Times, etcetera, said
Speaker 1: both legs were amputad. Okay, so we'll go with that,
Speaker 1: all right. I just want to clarify because I was
Speaker 1: I was never sure. No, it is hard to tell.
Speaker 1: Was it just his legs that were injured or was
Speaker 1: the rest of his body injured. He got yeah, some
Speaker 1: some big third degree burns over a lot of the
Speaker 1: rest of his body. So pretty much what you would
Speaker 1: expect by somebody being hot off guard by their room exploding.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So he was taken to
Speaker 1: the Davo Doctors Hospital, which is where his legs were amputated.
Speaker 1: But before he lost consciousness, he told police that somebody
Speaker 1: had lobbed a grenade into his room. But then later
Speaker 1: on with the police, bomb experts took a close look
Speaker 1: at the scene. Well, the evidence to them looked like
Speaker 1: the blast was from a bomb and not a grenade,
Speaker 1: and Miring had had two metal boxes that he kept
Speaker 1: in his room, and it looked like the bomb had
Speaker 1: actually been inside one of those boxes. So I'm curious, right,
Speaker 1: And but here's where the story thickens a little bit.
Speaker 1: While my Ring was in the hospital in Davos and
Speaker 1: FBI agents came by to ask him some questions. This
Speaker 1: is where it gets controversial. According to some sources, local
Speaker 1: police who were there guarding Meyring tried to stop the
Speaker 1: FBI from getting into his room, but the FBI guy,
Speaker 1: the FBI guys apparently were kind of bullying and they
Speaker 1: just basically insisted on going in and talking to him. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then they took my Ring out of the hospital,
Speaker 1: flew into another hospital in Manila, which is of course
Speaker 1: at the far other end of the Philippines, of course,
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, yeah. And then after I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly when this happened, he Ring left
Speaker 1: the country. Apparently, according to some people, the FBI spirit
Speaker 1: Admiring out of the Philippines and back to the U S.
Speaker 1: Apparently he was taken to San Diego. Ostensibly, to quote
Speaker 1: a famous podcaster person, uh, it was for more advanced
Speaker 1: treatments than what you could get in the Philippines. So
Speaker 1: here's the But Okay, when I read this stuff about this,
Speaker 1: and I was reading the stuff that, oh, gosh, which
Speaker 1: US government organs? I want to say it's the State Department,
Speaker 1: but it probably is. And whoever it was, they were like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, they went there with police officers, local
Speaker 1: police officers in tow to comply with the rules, like
Speaker 1: they they you know, they're accounting of it is that
Speaker 1: they followed the book and the locals were with them.
Speaker 1: And the US government says yeah as well. And so
Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of conflicting accounts in this one.
Speaker 1: I think they probably they did. They did obey the rules.
Speaker 1: You know, the FBI that says that they had a
Speaker 1: liaison with the Philippine National Police. They totally cooperated and
Speaker 1: coordinated with them. So that's what that's how they put it.
Speaker 1: Um not to disparage the Philippine police is something you
Speaker 1: always say before you're gonna disparase someone exactly. But you know,
Speaker 1: I in my talkings with people from the Philippines, which
Speaker 1: I've had actually haven't had extensive talkings with people from
Speaker 1: the Philippines, um most of their citizens generally feel like
Speaker 1: the police are pretty corrupt and it doesn't take very
Speaker 1: much to get them to do what you want. So
Speaker 1: you know, whether or not the FBI or you know,
Speaker 1: the US officials were complying, or they had paid them off,
Speaker 1: or maybe they hadn't paid them off, and so the
Speaker 1: police were like, hey, you didn't follow a protocol, you
Speaker 1: didn't pay us off. What's going on? And you know,
Speaker 1: later reported that they had had been done without their consent.
Speaker 1: There's just so much to not know about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there is. That's just that's there's once again something that
Speaker 1: we said for impartial, law abiding law enforcement. And I'll
Speaker 1: just add that if I had gotten my legs blown
Speaker 1: off and third degree burns all over my body in
Speaker 1: a foreign country, I would be super thankful for my
Speaker 1: government coming and taking me home. Yeah, that's a good point,
Speaker 1: you know. So you know, it's a whole question. The
Speaker 1: whole question here is not so much that they did it,
Speaker 1: but why they did it. You could ask for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might have been um but but back to the
Speaker 1: bomb scene, it looked like the bomb, according to the
Speaker 1: Philippine police, was mostly most likely an improvised type. Initially,
Speaker 1: they concluded dynamite, but that they decided it was some
Speaker 1: other higher tech explosive like ammoni nitrate, which had ammonium
Speaker 1: nitratee in if they found traces of ammonium nitride, isn't
Speaker 1: that the same thing that was in Oklahoma City in
Speaker 1: the same kind of bomb essentially, Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: that's one way to get your ammonium nitrate. You don't
Speaker 1: have to use fertilized they did there. You can actually
Speaker 1: get more purified versions of it. But yeah, you can
Speaker 1: bind your ammonium nitrate with some fuel oil vaida you've
Speaker 1: got a nice unstable explosive. My My reason for saying
Speaker 1: it was kind of like I was thinking that it
Speaker 1: had to be something akin to a fertilizer bomb. Is
Speaker 1: he is in the Philippines, and fertilizer is probably easy
Speaker 1: to get. Ahold of the higher tech stuff maybe not
Speaker 1: so much. Yeah, and there are and this is the
Speaker 1: whole range. You can improvise something with fertilizer and diesel
Speaker 1: or there's some more higher tech stuff that also uses
Speaker 1: his ammonium nitrate, same kind of similar thing or refined
Speaker 1: process and it's a it's a better explosive. But you know,
Speaker 1: but as far as what he had there, was it
Speaker 1: improvised or was it you know, high tech stuff. I'm
Speaker 1: not totally sure, but of course, uh, if Myron did
Speaker 1: have himself a bomb, which appeared that he did, that's
Speaker 1: illegal in the Philippines. Even so that made him kind
Speaker 1: of a wanted man of course at this but by
Speaker 1: this point he's out of the Philippines. They wanted him back.
Speaker 1: They they actually filed charges against him in the the Philippines,
Speaker 1: but the U. S Government did nothing to return him. Instead,
Speaker 1: Byron lives out the rest of his days here in
Speaker 1: the US, maybe at his hometown of out of Mesa, California,
Speaker 1: although there was one report that he'd been seeing in Texas.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't really matter because apparently he's died since
Speaker 1: I think he died in two thousand twelve, because I
Speaker 1: believe he was about sixty six when this bombing happened.
Speaker 1: So you know, seventy six, you know, plus take off
Speaker 1: a couple of years for having your body burned and
Speaker 1: you're blown off, you know, you know, so that's not outrageous.
Speaker 1: The controversy didn't die. Two weeks after the bombing, the
Speaker 1: mayor of Davo Rodrigo dore tab a guy who likes
Speaker 1: to scream. Yeah, he's kind of he's he's kind of bombastic,
Speaker 1: I would say the one way of putting it. He
Speaker 1: reminds me of another certain politician in our country a
Speaker 1: little bit, but a lot worse in my opinion. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to me. I'm gonna make judgments. Yeah. But
Speaker 1: he went public and blasted the U. S Government for
Speaker 1: taking my Ring out of the country. He accused of
Speaker 1: see I of conducting a false flag operation in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: Explain to folks, what's the false flag operation? Yeah? A
Speaker 1: false flag is where you uh commit some sort of
Speaker 1: usually some sort of a crime or an operation, but
Speaker 1: you make it look like some other country has done it.
Speaker 1: So the idea is here would be like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll playing some bombs, will blame it on some Muslim
Speaker 1: separatist group, and then if we do that in public
Speaker 1: opinion and the Philippines will turn against these guys, and
Speaker 1: then the national government will adopt a policy that's more
Speaker 1: anti Muslim, which is well engineering okay. And so in
Speaker 1: this telling, my Ring was an agent of the CIA.
Speaker 1: He was running this operation, which is why the US
Speaker 1: got him out. Of the country so quickly DETERCTI was
Speaker 1: very angry about this situation. He threatened unspecified violence towards
Speaker 1: the FBI if he they ever came back to Dabo again.
Speaker 1: I know he's that's the kind of guy he is. Actually,
Speaker 1: he's actually he actually claims to have killed people in
Speaker 1: his drug wards. This is the same guy he's obviously
Speaker 1: president of the Philippines today. If you don't know that
Speaker 1: he does. He just claim in the past to have
Speaker 1: actually summarily executed people who were caught with drugs. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I know they had. I can't remember who it is.
Speaker 1: Some humans rights group is totally in arms because you
Speaker 1: get caught with drugs, essentially they're they're just taking you out.
Speaker 1: And the number of deaths capital punishment style deaths had
Speaker 1: just skyrocket. And once he came into office, like to
Speaker 1: an absurd rate. Well, it began long before he was president.
Speaker 1: I mean, when he was mayor of Dabo, he cleaned
Speaker 1: up quote unquote the situation down there, and the same
Speaker 1: thing happened. They were they were what they called death squads.
Speaker 1: At least there were some accusations that there were death
Speaker 1: squads killing people outright all over the place then, and
Speaker 1: and apparently the Philippine people liked his style of after
Speaker 1: they went ahead and made him president. You know, um,
Speaker 1: so whatever, you know, they're they're tied up to elect
Speaker 1: whoever they want. But this might explain while U. S.
Speaker 1: Philippines relations have gone downhill. If this particular incident is
Speaker 1: what sour Detarty so much on the United States and
Speaker 1: our relationship with the Philippines. Um, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: it's not. Maybe he was already kind of anti American
Speaker 1: and this was just an excuse. I don't know, and
Speaker 1: I don't know when he's made his speeches. Was May thirty,
Speaker 1: two thousand to just two weeks after the explosion. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he had any any special knowledge of
Speaker 1: the situation or if he had just been reading the
Speaker 1: newspapers like everybody else. But he wasn't mad. I mean
Speaker 1: you read that article, right, did he strike you as angry?
Speaker 1: He strikes me as angry constantly. Well, there's that. That's
Speaker 1: that's why he's yeah. But but that's why this is
Speaker 1: still controversial and still a mystery because who exactly was
Speaker 1: Michael Myering and just what exactly was he up to?
Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to figure out here. Ostensibly there,
Speaker 1: I know, he was a citizen of South Africa who
Speaker 1: emigrated to the U S. And was naturalized towards the
Speaker 1: end of the apartheid era. As I said before, he
Speaker 1: was not colleges. He was Caucasian, Yeah, he was. And
Speaker 1: supposedly he was affiliated with the African National Congress, although
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure about that. I mean, there's in
Speaker 1: this story you read that he was affiliated with all
Speaker 1: kinds of groups. That's I'm sure you're aware, very disparate groups.
Speaker 1: I would say he's also been accused of being affiliated
Speaker 1: with another group of people who are like white supremacists
Speaker 1: and Nazis back in the U S. Which is aththetical
Speaker 1: the whole African National Congress thing. What do you think
Speaker 1: about it? But there is one story that was told
Speaker 1: by as a friend of his name David Hawthorne, who
Speaker 1: said that my Ring told him once that he'd given
Speaker 1: a box of old US federal notes to the South
Speaker 1: African government after apartheime. So this is after Nelson Mandela
Speaker 1: became president of South Africa. He made them a gift
Speaker 1: of this box of notes had, according to my Iring,
Speaker 1: five million dollars in it. I know a lot of money,
Speaker 1: that's whole bank notes. I don't know how big the
Speaker 1: denominations were. I did a little checking, and I know
Speaker 1: back on the day they used to print bills as
Speaker 1: large as ten thousand dollars and denominations. Wait, where where's
Speaker 1: my ring saying he got the money from? Well, that's
Speaker 1: a little hazy. This is he's a get a treasure hunter,
Speaker 1: because I see you've got information here about dates and
Speaker 1: types of bills, and so I'm trying to figure out
Speaker 1: it's not like he just went down to the bank
Speaker 1: and made a cash withdrawal. No, no, got at all,
Speaker 1: not at all. These were These were old bank notes.
Speaker 1: Of course, since I don't I'm not sure what the
Speaker 1: biggest the biggest denomination is today's a five d. They're
Speaker 1: still making it. They're still making a five dollar bill, right,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I do. None of us are rich
Speaker 1: enough to know that. But just opened my wallet. I
Speaker 1: know it's But but again, back in the day, they
Speaker 1: used to make him a lot bigger. Ten thousand bush
Speaker 1: was the biggest one. Yeah, So assuming that this box
Speaker 1: with five million bucks in it was in ten thousand dollars, denominations.
Speaker 1: My back of the envelope calculation is that that would
Speaker 1: be a hundred ten pounds. Well that's a lot of bucks,
Speaker 1: and of course you know it's you know, yeah, My
Speaker 1: calculation is that if if it was a hundred dollar bills,
Speaker 1: it would weigh a little over a ton. Soy box.
Speaker 1: But asked as for where he got these, well, this
Speaker 1: is the Philippines, you know, ohmishly just gold and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. You pronounced it right this time, I don't know,
Speaker 1: but this is this box was one of twelve, which
Speaker 1: would mean about six billion dollars. Again, as you ask
Speaker 1: where did you get it? Well, it could have been
Speaker 1: from ships, I mean because my ron of course was
Speaker 1: looking for yamash she is gold. And uh if what
Speaker 1: he said about those twelve boxes of cash, it's true
Speaker 1: that it sounds like he found part of it. Because
Speaker 1: as they all know, the Japanese and World War two
Speaker 1: and before World War two were looting East Asia of everything.
Speaker 1: They would go to the banks and I'm sure carry
Speaker 1: away all the bank notes. They all everybody's jewelry, their
Speaker 1: silver candelabra and you know, their rings and gold coins,
Speaker 1: silver coins, everything, jewels, And that was Yamashita's gold and
Speaker 1: supposedly just about all of it wound up in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: And we've actually covered that story, talked about this story,
Speaker 1: yeah years ago, actually was it was a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah. Uh. And of course, as if you
Speaker 1: listen to that episodes, you know, towards the end of
Speaker 1: the war, there was some efforts to transport all that
Speaker 1: stuff back to Japan because it did look like the
Speaker 1: Philippines were going to fall to the to the Allies,
Speaker 1: and so, uh, it had to be transported back to Japan.
Speaker 1: So what to set it on? Walships and submarines of course,
Speaker 1: and they're apparently around Menta now there are a lot
Speaker 1: of sunken ships and submarines, so it's kind of uh
Speaker 1: worth taking a look at them, I suppose. So that
Speaker 1: might be where I found it. If they if they
Speaker 1: got a ship or something that's got these crates of cash,
Speaker 1: and he's found this thing and salvage these crates. Okay,
Speaker 1: that could be one potential source of it, or maybe
Speaker 1: he was just b sing. I don't know, it could
Speaker 1: be that too. In fact, I'm kind of betting on that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that would be sealed really well, to have
Speaker 1: survived underwater, not necessarily. My understanding about the way things
Speaker 1: work is underwater is that you can leave it down
Speaker 1: there as long as you want. It's the process when
Speaker 1: you bring it back to the surface. You've got to
Speaker 1: manage that process kind of carefully. Sinization and separation and
Speaker 1: drying is time consumer expensive. Otherwise it just it turns
Speaker 1: to dust. Yeah, and so that's why I'm that's why
Speaker 1: I'm curious about that part. But well, it might have
Speaker 1: been something else too. I mean, there's not just on ships.
Speaker 1: It could have been buried in a a cave somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It also could have explained why maybe you know, maybe
Speaker 1: he knew where it was. He had you know, a
Speaker 1: friend who was guarding it, lived on a boat above
Speaker 1: it or something like that. He brought you know, one
Speaker 1: box up at a time. Yeah, and it was a
Speaker 1: very slow process. It would explain why he was staying
Speaker 1: at kind of a crappy hotel. Actually have the money yet,
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, I can behind that. Yeah, maybe that's it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, um, but that's our that's so far
Speaker 1: that the only treasure we know for sure that he
Speaker 1: found it. We're pretty sure he didn't actually find that
Speaker 1: he also had supposed to supposedly partnered up with the
Speaker 1: Manila based group of people. That's you see a lot
Speaker 1: of this in a story. There's this shadowy group of
Speaker 1: people who aren't exactly named, and you don't exactly find out.
Speaker 1: But these are the ones that I said had links
Speaker 1: to this white supremacist group back in the US and
Speaker 1: also to the neo Nazi Party of the United States.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure why he joined up with these people.
Speaker 1: Um it might be needed capital, or maybe they just
Speaker 1: had information that they needed, or maybe they just were
Speaker 1: like the mob and they just muscled in on the operation.
Speaker 1: Maybe they were the only ones who know how to
Speaker 1: desalinate money. They could be that too. They might have
Speaker 1: had some skills that didn't get a lot of experience. Well,
Speaker 1: there was you know, another thing, there was some some
Speaker 1: some messages between him and his demolition experts where the
Speaker 1: demolition experts was talking about him the handling this situation.
Speaker 1: He described what sounds to me like the guy was
Speaker 1: talking about maybe unexploded dealing with unexploded ordinance, which if
Speaker 1: you're salvaging a warship that's sunken, there's probably gonna be
Speaker 1: some bombs in our chillery shows and stuff like that
Speaker 1: on board of that ship. Hell, to this day, they're
Speaker 1: still finding minds in Britain in backyards. But yeah, but
Speaker 1: unexploded bombs, Oh yeah, they find them all the time,
Speaker 1: I mean still and uh, and so you've gotta be
Speaker 1: real careful with that stuff, obviously. According to the same
Speaker 1: guy I mentioned, David Hawthorne before it was a friend
Speaker 1: of my Rings. My Ring was afraid of his new partners,
Speaker 1: these shadowy Minila based people. He said to Hawthorne that
Speaker 1: his life was in danger, and that's my Ring's life,
Speaker 1: and that it had something to do with the treasure.
Speaker 1: That kind of vague stuff. But so the question, of
Speaker 1: course is why didn't he leave the country. Well, apparently
Speaker 1: wanted you get a stranger before he left the country.
Speaker 1: Maybe too, I don't know, Yeah, me too. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: suppose i'd risk my life for that kind of cash
Speaker 1: and why not. Yeah I probably would, or at risk
Speaker 1: somebody's life. Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely your life, for sure,
Speaker 1: I know you would. That's that's okay, I don't mind.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't make sense though, what's that this this
Speaker 1: whole he's recovering all of this treasure, because why he
Speaker 1: was he giving it away? Well, that's it. I mean,
Speaker 1: why would you if you've only recovered one crate of
Speaker 1: cash and turn around and you give it to Nelson Mandela.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that it was a great guy, by the way,
Speaker 1: deserved it. But if it's all your money, you're operating capital,
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Does not make a lot of sense
Speaker 1: to me either. I'm sorry. I'm a selfish guy. I
Speaker 1: would keep it for me. Of course, maybe it was
Speaker 1: a bad batch. You know, we brought this up wrong
Speaker 1: and it's it's all turned to crap. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: generously give it to some of the else maybe look
Speaker 1: at all this. Yeah, yeah, so that's when he's supposedly doing.
Speaker 1: He's looking for treasure and came back, like I said
Speaker 1: to Dabo in mid December two thousand one, and uh,
Speaker 1: as I said before, he always did. At the ever
Speaker 1: Being hotel. When he showed up the last time I
Speaker 1: checked in, he brought these two large metal boxes with him.
Speaker 1: When we're talking large, I don't know how large. Bigger
Speaker 1: than a bread box, a little bigger than a bread box,
Speaker 1: I think, but still smaller than a refrigerator. Still big
Speaker 1: enough or small enough that somebody could carry it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so, Yeah, they were. I got the impression
Speaker 1: that he kept files in there, like like information on
Speaker 1: it was like bankers boxes. I'm thinking about that size,
Speaker 1: but I've never seen a picture of them, so I
Speaker 1: can't tell you. Actually, they kind of got blown up anyway.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but these were padlocked, and they were He
Speaker 1: told three different hotel employees that the boxes should not
Speaker 1: be touched, not at all. These must have been the
Speaker 1: room cleaners, and apparently he said that to them repeatedly,
Speaker 1: said hey, whatever you do, don't touch those boxes. Don't
Speaker 1: even touch them. And and actually I think that this
Speaker 1: is not a rumor because these three people actually signed
Speaker 1: AFFI David stating this. So and that's probably one of
Speaker 1: the few solid pieces of information we've got to work
Speaker 1: with here. So there's something about them boxes that was important.
Speaker 1: Other than that, we don't know much about what he
Speaker 1: was doing. My Ring was busted about a week before
Speaker 1: the bomb went off for passing counterfeit US cash and
Speaker 1: as a result of this, his hotel room was searched
Speaker 1: by police, and in another telling the story, Philippine intelligence
Speaker 1: had an eyem because they were suspicious because he kept
Speaker 1: bringing in these metal boxes into his hotel, so so
Speaker 1: there were a lot more. I don't know if he
Speaker 1: was bringing them and then taking him out and bringing
Speaker 1: them back or what they were, like the equivalent of
Speaker 1: his briefcases. Yeah, he didn't have enough. I don't think
Speaker 1: more than two at a time, and they were probably
Speaker 1: the same ones. But maybe he was swapping him. But
Speaker 1: but again, we don't know that this is true either
Speaker 1: that either the part about his arrest or them, well,
Speaker 1: part about him getting caught with the counterfeits and the
Speaker 1: police coming by and looking over his place apparently is true.
Speaker 1: That seems to be documented, but I'm not a hundred
Speaker 1: percent even sure about even that. And then I said
Speaker 1: Doty did complain about the search because apparently Michael Myering
Speaker 1: was not totally operative when the police showed up the
Speaker 1: searches room. Most people aren't, though, yeah, I wouldn't be. Well, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: they searches room. Apparently they didn't find the steel boxes,
Speaker 1: so he must have booed them. He might have moved
Speaker 1: into the bathroom because apparently he wouldn't let the police
Speaker 1: search the bathroom when the police expressed an interest in
Speaker 1: the bathroom he said, no, you can't go in there.
Speaker 1: It's out of order. I've got a red north Face
Speaker 1: bag in there. Yeah. Well the corps said it, and
Speaker 1: you can't go in Yeah. I love I love it
Speaker 1: chili last night. You don't want to go in there.
Speaker 1: It's out of order. Yeah, I know whatever. Whatever. Apparently
Speaker 1: that maybe he slipped in somebody. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: I do know where I'm keeping my murder weapons and
Speaker 1: all my contraband. I'm keeping it in my bathroom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, at least if I'm living in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: And as we all know, about a week after that,
Speaker 1: he was nearly killed in that explosion in his room. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some of the things they found in the wreckage, besides
Speaker 1: bits and pieces of the bomb, uh, they also found
Speaker 1: some pieces of old U s currency, kind of like
Speaker 1: those old banknotes we were talking about. Was there all?
Speaker 1: This is? This is where I want to ask a
Speaker 1: question about counterfeit money, because I thought that counterfeit cash
Speaker 1: or remnants of counterfeit cash had also been found in
Speaker 1: the room post explosion. Am I correcting that? Or am
Speaker 1: I there's some accounts about that it was red remnants
Speaker 1: of account Okay, again, the reporting on this one is
Speaker 1: just so slapdash. Uh. They also found an ID card
Speaker 1: from the Moral National Liberation Front AC. Sure you've heard
Speaker 1: of those guys, If we haven't, well, if you haven't, well,
Speaker 1: the MML office a group that's they're part of the
Speaker 1: Muslim separatist movement in the Philippines. Okay, Yeah, so they're
Speaker 1: as a group that's part of the Muslim separatist movement
Speaker 1: in the Philippines. This ID card had Michael Mariray's name
Speaker 1: and photograph on it, along with the birthday September seven, teenth,
Speaker 1: nine five, which would make him about sixty six when
Speaker 1: he got blown up. And what was he doing with
Speaker 1: that card? Do you ask? Well, I don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: my question is why do they even make ID cards
Speaker 1: that I don't know either. That's a good question, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Isn't it kind of like a class fed as a
Speaker 1: terrorist organization? Well, they're not. They weren't. They weren't covert. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they weren't as extreme as some of the other organizations.
Speaker 1: Like there's a few others like another ABUSA is another
Speaker 1: group that's sort of advocating for a separate Muslim state
Speaker 1: in the Philippines and they are classified as a terrorist
Speaker 1: organization because well, they use a lot of violence for
Speaker 1: one thing, and they're advocating actual separatism, and that's true
Speaker 1: re estate and everything. There's a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of acronyms things in this story. So sorry, I didn't
Speaker 1: mean to say that they were terrorists, but but I
Speaker 1: I still don't understand necessarily why. Yeah. They Well, actually
Speaker 1: the government signed a peace agreement with the separatists, and
Speaker 1: I think and they establish essentially established gave them some
Speaker 1: limited regional autonomy. I see, and uh, and so they
Speaker 1: were more or less it was probably the equivalent of,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like a passport to get into
Speaker 1: their territory. Well it might it might have been a
Speaker 1: way to, yeah, to be in the territory at least unmolested,
Speaker 1: you know, travel. You know, this certifies that, you know,
Speaker 1: the local government knows you're there and it's okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're equivalent of the t s A has said, this
Speaker 1: guy's fine, he's good, let him in and out and
Speaker 1: as he pleases. That could be what it was, And
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure he could have just gone out
Speaker 1: of the local quickie. Martin got himself a fake I
Speaker 1: d I don't know. But but but also besides this,
Speaker 1: this did raise a few eyebrows, of course, but apparently
Speaker 1: this came out in the press. Apparently my Ring had
Speaker 1: some shitty connections to some other groups as well. According
Speaker 1: to the Middle of Times, he had ties with of course,
Speaker 1: all sorts of government officials in Minda now, which is
Speaker 1: where Davo is of course, and also the Philippine National Police.
Speaker 1: It was a kind of like their FBI, I guess, uh.
Speaker 1: And of course the MNL, as I said, but also
Speaker 1: the MILF, the m I l L, the m I
Speaker 1: l F, which is the Moral Islamic Liberation Front. They
Speaker 1: like the MLF, but they're they're actually more religious versus secular.
Speaker 1: And of course obviously I have as I said, we
Speaker 1: are hardcore. These guys are affiliated with ISIS considered the
Speaker 1: Filipino chapter of ISIS uh. And of course also the
Speaker 1: New People's Arming, which is the communist guy that the
Speaker 1: communist insurgency in the Philippines. So all these different things,
Speaker 1: it's like alphabet soup. And I would have never guessed
Speaker 1: that the Philippines was such a hotbed of activity with
Speaker 1: all these different organizations fighting for control. Yeah, it kind
Speaker 1: of is, and it feels very nineteen fifties nineteen sixties
Speaker 1: to me with all of this, all of these groups
Speaker 1: battling for control. Aren't the Philippines pretty strategic? They're like
Speaker 1: a pretty good spot to be if you want to
Speaker 1: do anything in the world, Right, Yeah, they're kind of are.
Speaker 1: They're down there close to all the shipping lanes and
Speaker 1: you know, so in East Asia and all these things.
Speaker 1: That's why we have this relationship with us and with them.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's because you know, they're they're valuable allies
Speaker 1: in other ways, but also they're just a great land
Speaker 1: based to base our fighters and our ships and everything else.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's kind of a key strategic area. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is one of the reasons I kind of
Speaker 1: questioned the false flag operation because it's like, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: so US we're gonna go in there, We're gonna plant
Speaker 1: some bombs, We're gonna just stir up this hornet's nest
Speaker 1: even more. Now, is that really a good idea in
Speaker 1: a place like this place where you want to have
Speaker 1: a foothold a place where you know, do you really
Speaker 1: want to stir that hornet's nest anymore? But maybe I
Speaker 1: will talk about that a little bit more to the theories.
Speaker 1: But as it's pretty obvious so and not all these
Speaker 1: groups that he's supposedly had all these shadowy ties to
Speaker 1: are necessarily compatible. Uh. And also none of these connections
Speaker 1: was really well documented. They're just basically hearsay, loose talk
Speaker 1: that's printed in the paper. So I have no idea.
Speaker 1: If it's true he was really seriously connected to all
Speaker 1: these groups, then this mystery may be significant, especially when
Speaker 1: you consider the potential possible involvement of the U. S. Government.
Speaker 1: The question is is we don't know if any of
Speaker 1: this stuff is really true. You have to be kind
Speaker 1: of a mastermind level negotiator to have INDs and friendships
Speaker 1: with all of these groups and not have them all
Speaker 1: mad at him for being associated with the others, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Uh? Well, I mean, and it
Speaker 1: could have been something that's obviously maybe he had contacts
Speaker 1: with them in order. Well, I'm going to be like,
Speaker 1: this is territory that you guys kind of considered to
Speaker 1: be your territory, So I'm going to be looking for
Speaker 1: sucking treasure kind of a very think is yours. So
Speaker 1: I just want to know who to bribe, making sure
Speaker 1: he's not trespassing, Yeah, making sure just sort of want
Speaker 1: to clear out with the locals. It could have been
Speaker 1: as simple as that, And maybe he did have some
Speaker 1: sort of contacts along those those lines, maybe because I'm
Speaker 1: sure in some of these countries, I'm sure we would
Speaker 1: look at it as well. I want to look for
Speaker 1: sucking treasure out the U. S. Coast. I'll talk to
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government about it, and that's that. Well,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work that way in the rest of the
Speaker 1: world when there's seven organizations claiming the same hunker ground. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it turns out even in America, it doesn't always work
Speaker 1: that way, you know, they really doesn't. Actually, just in
Speaker 1: the federal government itself, you'll probably have to negotiate with
Speaker 1: seventeen other organisms and then you probably you know, state
Speaker 1: in local governments as well, and then some other things too,
Speaker 1: and probably you and probably any probably some local Indian
Speaker 1: tribes and you know who knows. But yeah, So what
Speaker 1: exactly was my Michael Myering up to? That is why
Speaker 1: we call this is a Michael Myering mystery. That's what
Speaker 1: it's called. In the Philippines. As I said, was he
Speaker 1: just looking for Yamashita's gold or was he really working
Speaker 1: for the CIA or with some terror risk groups or
Speaker 1: was he a master bombmaker or was he just a
Speaker 1: mule or maybe a handler for covert sources and what
Speaker 1: was he doing there? That's our story. Now it's time
Speaker 1: for some theories, all right. Theory number one, Michael Myrin
Speaker 1: was a CIA agent part of a false flag operation,
Speaker 1: as do tear Take claims. I think we kind of
Speaker 1: covered this a little bit, well a little bit, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, you know was as we know, the Abbi
Speaker 1: morxteriously showed up. They flew him out of Davo three
Speaker 1: days after the explosion, and later on you get him
Speaker 1: out of the country and they allowed him to live.
Speaker 1: I'm molested in the United States for years afterwards. Right,
Speaker 1: as a citizen, even a naturalized citizen, is still a citizen.
Speaker 1: He's still a citizen. I still got rights. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't raise a finger to do anything about him
Speaker 1: or send him back to the Philippines to face justice.
Speaker 1: It might have been a good reason for well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that the Philippines justice maybe is
Speaker 1: not percent in line with what like you would think
Speaker 1: American justice, maybe especially in these days human rights violations. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: especially these days, you know, with all the death squads
Speaker 1: you keep hearing about, you know, and uh. But of course,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, myring was a US citizen who've
Speaker 1: been injured in something that looked like a terrorist bombing.
Speaker 1: And you forget this is only months after Night eleven, right, Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: like I said, I would assume that my government would
Speaker 1: come get me. You would assume that they would at
Speaker 1: least come in and ask a few questions. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so that's why the FBI showed up and uh,
Speaker 1: and and showing up at the hospital too, doesn't seem
Speaker 1: too outrageous to me. And as far as moving him
Speaker 1: to the hospital Manila, well, one of the reasons apparently
Speaker 1: is a hospital and Dabo was not an approved provider
Speaker 1: under under Miring's insurance. Oh yeah, you don't want to
Speaker 1: be out of network when you've got a catastrophic injuries
Speaker 1: that I would imagine like that that you know, spending
Speaker 1: a bunch of time in the burning, it's probably very spending. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It could also be that Manila hospital maybe had a
Speaker 1: better burning. It might be that the hospital back in
Speaker 1: San Diego had an even better burn unite. Likely yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: But according to the US ambassador who gave an interview,
Speaker 1: I think in two thousand five or some time, the
Speaker 1: movie was made on the advice of his doctors and Dabo.
Speaker 1: The master also said the local police at that time
Speaker 1: it actually showed no interest in Miiring. No matter what
Speaker 1: do Terrte is actually saying. All that stuff really showed
Speaker 1: up in the press later. This is again according to
Speaker 1: the ambassador, it wasn't happening at the time. This just
Speaker 1: showed up in the press later. It's kind of a snowball.
Speaker 1: Longer the story goes on, the bigger it gets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, what a big a big name like de Tarty,
Speaker 1: it gets involved in it. Then it gets bigger still
Speaker 1: because that's a that's a news story in and of itself,
Speaker 1: and all that stuff gets recycled again through the news cycle.
Speaker 1: And there might have been an ulterior motive too. Maybe
Speaker 1: the embassy felt that if he was suspected of wrongdoing
Speaker 1: or lawbreaking, that it would be best to get him
Speaker 1: out of Dabo and away from du Terte, because, let's
Speaker 1: face it, his his due process. His consideration for the
Speaker 1: idea of due process is not very strong. I was
Speaker 1: going to say, his burden of proof seems way it does,
Speaker 1: and so maybe that's what it was. And they felt
Speaker 1: that he'd get better do process somewhere else in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: And of course they couldn't publicly say that, and that's
Speaker 1: not his athlete that kind of thing. It's not diplomatic
Speaker 1: to say that sort of really, but as far as also,
Speaker 1: but then there's that whole thing about getting him out
Speaker 1: of the country. And again I saw this in an
Speaker 1: interview with the U. S Ambassador's name is France's uh
Speaker 1: Rickie alone, you're the Italian here, Devon, what do you think? Okay,
Speaker 1: that was in the minda news. I guess that's shut
Speaker 1: from Minta. Now. The ambassador said that my Ring actually
Speaker 1: left the Philippines in a bow board way. He was
Speaker 1: stamped out by the Bureau of Immigration. Those are the
Speaker 1: guys at the airport. I don't know if you've been
Speaker 1: to the countries where you have to be stamped out.
Speaker 1: Some of them you have to be stamped out and
Speaker 1: they stamp you in and out. They do, and they're
Speaker 1: the guys that they checked. They check the list to
Speaker 1: make sure that you're on the do not let them
Speaker 1: leave lists. You know you're not on that list, And yeah,
Speaker 1: they check to make sure you're not on that list.
Speaker 1: And according to the ambassador, the authorities stamped them out
Speaker 1: and had no issue with him leaving the country. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine, right, You've got a guy on a stretcher
Speaker 1: or something. He's got no legs, bandaged that from recent amputation.
Speaker 1: His body is totally wrapped up because he's got third
Speaker 1: degree burns everywhere, he's you know, drugged up, and you're like,
Speaker 1: we need to do an interview with this guy for
Speaker 1: business or pleasure. Yeah, yeah, I think you're going to
Speaker 1: stamp him out probably probably you know, let him be
Speaker 1: somebody else's you know, doctor expenses. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But yeah,
Speaker 1: So apparently the charges weren't filed until after he had left,
Speaker 1: or if they were filed before he had left, apparently,
Speaker 1: and this happens a lot in the government. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's like in the Philippines. Often one hand doesn't
Speaker 1: know what the other hand is doing. May well be
Speaker 1: that they just hadn't quite got a run and notifying
Speaker 1: the guys at the airport that this guy was not
Speaker 1: supposed to leave the country, or maybe somebody just got bribed.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Apparently, the Philippine government didn't actually officially
Speaker 1: notify the US government of these charges against Michael Myering
Speaker 1: until January two thousand five. Wait, wait when did the
Speaker 1: explosion take place? And May two thousand two, almost three
Speaker 1: years later, they they finally notified because there was a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff in the papers. It was a big controversy.
Speaker 1: But as far as I guess, as far as the
Speaker 1: government goes, they can't just say, hey, you know, the
Speaker 1: US citizen, we're reading some bad stuff about you in
Speaker 1: the papers in the Philippines, so we're gonna put you
Speaker 1: on the next plane, and you've got you better go
Speaker 1: back there and sort that stuff out. That's not the
Speaker 1: way it works, really. Yeah, And it's hard to tell,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I couldn't tell, but maybe you
Speaker 1: guys could. What the status of his health was for
Speaker 1: the remainder of his life and injuries like that, sometimes
Speaker 1: you can just be in bad health until the end.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't live too terribly. I mean it
Speaker 1: was ten years longer or something like that. I have heard.
Speaker 1: Also alternatively he died in two thousand six and two
Speaker 1: thousand tens yeah, he could have died, so he essentially
Speaker 1: fell off the radar. And so I can imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: also that like, you know, unless you can really prove
Speaker 1: that this citizen of the United States is really guilty
Speaker 1: of something, we're not gonna send him. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to get him on a plane for all
Speaker 1: this emotional stress. That's ridiculous. Yeah and so so, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna have a physical toll on him. Oh yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: flying flying from the US clear that side of the world,
Speaker 1: it does take a toll on even if you're healthy,
Speaker 1: that long plane flight. Oh my god. Yeah. So that's
Speaker 1: These are some of the reasons I'm a little skeptical
Speaker 1: about this whole CIA shadowy US government involvement sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Another problem I have with this idea is just the
Speaker 1: way admiring what about things. I mean, he kept a
Speaker 1: bomb in his frigging hotel room. It does not make
Speaker 1: a lot of sense because I saw not only in safe,
Speaker 1: but it's not good operational security. For one thing, it's
Speaker 1: very damning evidence. If you get caught has been all
Speaker 1: these bombings and suddenly you're caught with a bomb that
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. Yeah, and so I can't believe that
Speaker 1: somebody who's with the CIA would do something that ridiculous. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, it's unclear what would have set it off
Speaker 1: if it were just so unstable. But that's another good
Speaker 1: reason to not keep a bomb in your room, is
Speaker 1: that it might go off and you might lose your legs.
Speaker 1: That's a good reason. And well, the other thing is
Speaker 1: that age CIA agents, if he was, don't go around
Speaker 1: telling people their CIA agents, which he did. Was he
Speaker 1: said it was they were Christians and christ in Action
Speaker 1: or something what it stood for. No, no, no salt
Speaker 1: would do you know what? That's just like those guys
Speaker 1: who are the FBI shirts the female body inspector, the
Speaker 1: same thing, and they're like, oh yeah, I'm in the FBI,
Speaker 1: Like Chris, Yeah, it's the same. I need to get
Speaker 1: me one of them. No, well, actually, joke you like
Speaker 1: to get punched in the face because that might happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I really kind of questioned about this.
Speaker 1: If he was a super secret agent with bomb bomb
Speaker 1: making materials in his room, he went out of his
Speaker 1: way to call attention to those boxes to at least
Speaker 1: three hotel employees, which also doesn't seem like a breadcast.
Speaker 1: What you're really doing is you're really letting those guys
Speaker 1: know that there's either something dangerous or something really really
Speaker 1: valuable inside those boxes, which guys kind of increases the
Speaker 1: likelihood they're gonna get stolen. You to distract people or
Speaker 1: divert people from your thing of important not pointed out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that that kind of flies in the face of
Speaker 1: reason to keep secret stuff in your room to begin with,
Speaker 1: but then also to call so much attention to it
Speaker 1: just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And
Speaker 1: then and then last of all, of course, what was
Speaker 1: the purpose? As I already said, you know, the purpose
Speaker 1: was to genna public antagonism towards certain groups. Well maybe,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't make any sense though. Well, yeah, like
Speaker 1: we said, if if the US wants to be there,
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to just get everybody hot under
Speaker 1: the collar and and try and tip over whatever regimes
Speaker 1: are in place. Because I disagree with that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like a really great way to destabilize an
Speaker 1: area is to really bring the heat on a bunch
Speaker 1: of you know, get a bunch of organizations really really
Speaker 1: mad at each other, and then somehow come in and
Speaker 1: say like, whoa, well, we're peacekeepers. Let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: this and bring it back down. Get that going. That's
Speaker 1: a great it's a great theory and great I like
Speaker 1: that idea, except I don't think we would be accepted
Speaker 1: as an honest broker in the Philips from Oh No,
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with that. I'm just saying as a
Speaker 1: general theory of coming into a place like we've done
Speaker 1: that other places. I know we've done that a lot,
Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that it doesn't appear that
Speaker 1: we would get any benefit from doing that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's well, it's one of those things in this particular location,
Speaker 1: it's one of the well, it's one of those things too,
Speaker 1: where unforeseen consequences and all that. You go, you go
Speaker 1: stare on the pot like that things might turn out
Speaker 1: the way you want to, but there's a lot of
Speaker 1: variables and things might turn out way way worse than
Speaker 1: you want them to be, so you know, probably best
Speaker 1: to keep your hands off. So again, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: this is impossible, but I really have a hard time
Speaker 1: buying this theory. I would be wholeheartedly being this. Okay, see,
Speaker 1: I see, I operated we're gonna rule that out. Okay,
Speaker 1: what else? Uh? Next theory number two, he was a
Speaker 1: freelance terrorist doing it for his own reason, or maybe
Speaker 1: he was under the pay of some terrorist group which
Speaker 1: would name some of these things. I really don't see
Speaker 1: a motive except for maybe sheer union bomb er fun.
Speaker 1: Maybe just maybe he liked to do this kind of thing,
Speaker 1: although it seems like got to be smart to carry
Speaker 1: out a bombing campaign like in your own home country
Speaker 1: where you blend in a lot better, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean it does you know, unless Michael Myron really hated
Speaker 1: Filipinos and he really wanted to blow a lot of
Speaker 1: Filipinos up. Maybe that was saying it's kind of a
Speaker 1: racist action. Could be that it's part Yeah, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: some Filipino was, you know, like like beat up his
Speaker 1: dad when he was a kid and he's hated him
Speaker 1: ever since. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's stretching. Well it is. And also there's lots
Speaker 1: of if you want to stay in the US, there's
Speaker 1: lots of Filipinos living here, so there wouldn't mean a
Speaker 1: shortage of targets really. So as far as him doing
Speaker 1: it for his own reasons. I can't really see that
Speaker 1: working for some shadowy group. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: shadowy groups there, but really, why would they hire him.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't have any special skills as far
Speaker 1: as I know, unless it wasn't a retired spy now
Speaker 1: and he didn't have judgment. What I see it is
Speaker 1: his bomb making skills were not that fat. Well he
Speaker 1: blew himself up. Yeah, yeah, And so the only thing,
Speaker 1: the only thing I could see where he would be
Speaker 1: useful to them would be as a useful idiot. And
Speaker 1: there are such people out there. Maybe he was the
Speaker 1: useful idiots. Guys are really into your cause. What could
Speaker 1: I do and say, dude, yeah that's okay, that make
Speaker 1: some bombs and blow blow some people here, here, here,
Speaker 1: and here. Maybe that's possible. He could have been a
Speaker 1: useful idiot. Well, and that ends up kind of being
Speaker 1: its own false flag thing, right, because you've got this
Speaker 1: like dumb American, he's making bombs, and then you can
Speaker 1: come in and say, look at what the Americans are doing.
Speaker 1: It could have been that got to get him out.
Speaker 1: That would be That would be the best part about
Speaker 1: it is if you are one of these shadowy groups
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, and you want to you know,
Speaker 1: have you know, have a cut out. He'd be the
Speaker 1: perfect cutout because you could just say, like you said, oh,
Speaker 1: he's an American obviously, C I A and the CIA
Speaker 1: is like, you know, they're don't get me started on
Speaker 1: these guys, because I've got my own differences with these guys,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure we all do. But they are sort
Speaker 1: of the handy, the handy, just all around bad guy.
Speaker 1: You know, they're kind of like in the movies. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: C oil companies to farmer companies to C I A.
Speaker 1: You know, it's always you know, it always is you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's kind of almost insulting to your intelligence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't really see him being involved with these people
Speaker 1: because I don't know why they would want him, why
Speaker 1: they would need him. I mean, these are these again,
Speaker 1: these are people who are perfectly capable of making their
Speaker 1: own bombs. So I don't really get it. And as
Speaker 1: far as the m L M MLF card that he had, again,
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, that could have just been a
Speaker 1: fake idea that he got somewhere or or had a
Speaker 1: very very standard reason for having it. Sure might have
Speaker 1: made travel in that part of the country more easier.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: kick that one of the curb and say that there
Speaker 1: is no good either. Let's go to another one here. Okay,
Speaker 1: theory number three. Uh, he was a treasure hunter, but
Speaker 1: uh and he actually did have something valuable, like say,
Speaker 1: treasure maps or something in those boxes, but he booby
Speaker 1: trapped them and accudentally boot flew himself up, you know.
Speaker 1: And are they possible? Yeah? Why why why would you
Speaker 1: booby trap something like that instead of hiding it somewhere,
Speaker 1: you know, rather than carrying a booby trapped thing that
Speaker 1: could go off on you at any time. Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you just dig a secret hole under the third tree
Speaker 1: to the right, and there's that I uh, well, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's that makes more sense to me. Why I
Speaker 1: keep that stuff like in a safe deposit box at
Speaker 1: the bank, you know, although maybe that's what he was doing,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean maybe, and this could be why
Speaker 1: he kept calling attention to those boxes that had patent
Speaker 1: bocks and everything, you know, because and like you say,
Speaker 1: to what the other things about about having that is,
Speaker 1: you know, if it does work, then you come on
Speaker 1: one day and somebody's trying to break into your box
Speaker 1: and there's this huge, bloody mess in your room. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta clean that up. Oh yeah, and plus the
Speaker 1: police might show up too, and then the whole thing
Speaker 1: is literally no pun intended, blown. Yeah, but yeah, really serious.
Speaker 1: But maybe he kept he actually did keep his secret
Speaker 1: documents and whatever somewhere else, and the boxes were just
Speaker 1: a decoy and you thought, well, I'll just put a
Speaker 1: bomb in there because and think, if you think about it,
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna come in there and cut the locks off
Speaker 1: the boxes and open the boxes in the room. Not likely.
Speaker 1: Probably they got to steal the boxes, take them back
Speaker 1: to their place, and then cut the locks off, and
Speaker 1: then in that case they blow themselves up. So maybe
Speaker 1: that was kind of it. Maybe he just saw ha
Speaker 1: ha ha. Yeah, it's it's somebody that somebody get blown up,
Speaker 1: you know, by my bomb, by stealing my stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's that That would that would make more sense. Although
Speaker 1: you know, even then, of course, you still have a problem,
Speaker 1: which is that if you've got a bomb, and especially
Speaker 1: if your bomb making skills are not at the highest
Speaker 1: order and maybe made yourself an ammonium nitrate fuel oil bomb,
Speaker 1: and you're thinking that the explosive in there is more
Speaker 1: stable than it actually is, you know, and then one day,
Speaker 1: you know, just accidentally, you want your box and co
Speaker 1: bluely off it goes correct me if I'm wrong, but
Speaker 1: if not made well, it's a rather volatile mix and
Speaker 1: temperature and humidity and static electricity apparently can even or shock,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's actually one of the theories that
Speaker 1: the police had is that is that the two boxes
Speaker 1: were side by side and he might have flipped open
Speaker 1: the cover on the middle cover on the one box
Speaker 1: and it banged down on the cover on the other
Speaker 1: box and had the bomb in it, and that was
Speaker 1: enough to set it off. Yeah, so you know, it
Speaker 1: could be that he had a bomb in there and
Speaker 1: it just was a little more unstable than he realized.
Speaker 1: And so let's see. So I'm kind of like in
Speaker 1: that theory a little better than the first two. Um,
Speaker 1: still it's got some issues. Yeah, or another one another
Speaker 1: possibility is a theory number four is he was a
Speaker 1: treasure hunter, but he blew himself up opening a treasure
Speaker 1: box that he had found that had been booby trapped
Speaker 1: by somebody else badly attempted, poor, poor attempt to diffuse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is possible if he truly was a treasure hunter.
Speaker 1: That the only issues I have with this I think,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, he had already had some talk about
Speaker 1: hiring some demos and experts to help him with issues
Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, so I'm kind of questioning why he
Speaker 1: would bring a box back to his hotel room. Well,
Speaker 1: just by the way, this is a legitimate theory that's
Speaker 1: been been put forth by people like in the press,
Speaker 1: So I'm not just making this up. I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, I don't think I see it in here.
Speaker 1: Is there there's not the theory that the boxes were
Speaker 1: indeed bombs, but that he was trying he was like
Speaker 1: keeping them to go use them on a cave or
Speaker 1: something like that. And he had taken the boxes, you know,
Speaker 1: to his demolition expert and said, Okay, rig me a
Speaker 1: bomb and then I'll take it to the cave and
Speaker 1: then I'll blow it because I don't want anybody to
Speaker 1: know where my cave is, right, so I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: by myself. So I'll take these, I'll take him back
Speaker 1: to my room. Then i'll take them and then he
Speaker 1: I don't know, accidentally blew himself up somehow. That is
Speaker 1: a possibility to Yeah, but that you know, he didn't
Speaker 1: make the bomb, he didn't really know how unstable it was.
Speaker 1: He went to fuss with it, but he was going
Speaker 1: to use it for a legitimate demolition purpose. Yeah, possible. Um.
Speaker 1: I still if it were me, I would go rent
Speaker 1: a storage unity. If it were me, I would too,
Speaker 1: But that's what I would do. You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: a dummy if he was going to use it too.
Speaker 1: Is you're saying devon do demolition on a site to
Speaker 1: recover something. I would think that it would be much
Speaker 1: simpler to just go acquired dynamite rather than some kind
Speaker 1: of what appears to be a home assembled bomb. I
Speaker 1: don't know what this guy was doing, or I'm just
Speaker 1: saying it out there as a thing in an illogical theory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: none of this is really logical though. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: no real good reason for this to have happened, so
Speaker 1: just adding another one to the pile. Yeah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to really make total sense of this story,
Speaker 1: honest with you. The but your theory is it works
Speaker 1: except for me, it doesn't really make sense to me
Speaker 1: that somebody would make a bomb and arm the bomb
Speaker 1: and then stash it away into their bed or something.
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense. But again, maybe this guy was
Speaker 1: complete well, he might not have really known. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess in my in my mind it's
Speaker 1: you know, he gets the bomb from the demolitions expert
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, how do I arm it?
Speaker 1: And he says, oh, yeah, you do it like this,
Speaker 1: and he was okay, cool, and then he's sitting in
Speaker 1: his room and he's like, I don't I think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just try it, and maybe he's maybe it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, if I wait until I'm actually out there
Speaker 1: to arm it, I will have forgotten. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to do one of them, yeah, or like okay, I
Speaker 1: think it's this and then accidentally did it and was
Speaker 1: like oh lips. And then there's that's why if you're
Speaker 1: not the explosives expert, you hire the guy and you
Speaker 1: bring him along in your little and then you pay
Speaker 1: him really well, and it's well yeah, yeah, and so
Speaker 1: that's but that is a possibility yet that he had
Speaker 1: some legitimate purpose for them, but he was just a
Speaker 1: screw up in the hand I don't know that there's
Speaker 1: like a legitimate purpose for a bomb like this. Sometimes
Speaker 1: there are certain certain civilian to have a bomb like this. Well,
Speaker 1: that might have been one reason he needed to like,
Speaker 1: you know, do it on the on the d L. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But back to the theory that he was opening up
Speaker 1: a treasure chest, that's fine. This gets back again to
Speaker 1: our demolition experts. He was he was talking about tracting
Speaker 1: with these guys to have them handle these delicate operations.
Speaker 1: What's you know, having to do with ordnance, And you
Speaker 1: would think that those would be the guys that you
Speaker 1: would task with opening up these boxes that potentially have
Speaker 1: been booby trapped, because, let's let's face it, that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be a shock. You know that Japanese had had left
Speaker 1: these crates in a cave somewhere. You would expect them
Speaker 1: to be booby trapped, wouldn't you. Yeah? I sure would so,
Speaker 1: and I but still, why do you take it back
Speaker 1: to your hotel and probably the box open there a
Speaker 1: little continental breakfast, the mooby trapped bob. It sounds like
Speaker 1: a normal morning to me. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess part of this could be, but um, he thought
Speaker 1: they were diffused or maybe or maybe he actually had
Speaker 1: watched them do it enough he thought, hey, I can
Speaker 1: do this piece of cake. Yeah. Still, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: grossly irresponsible to take it back to your hotel to
Speaker 1: do it, and you want to do it somewhere a
Speaker 1: little more isolated than that, I would. Yeah, although you know,
Speaker 1: well he's going to blow himself up either way, right right,
Speaker 1: pretty much, Actually it works out better for him because
Speaker 1: if it's somewhere more isolated, he probably just bleeds to
Speaker 1: death before the paramedics show up. So you know, then
Speaker 1: maybe that's why he did maybe Yeah, but yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: an hard time believing that he would actually be dumb
Speaker 1: enough I mean that to do this. Again, I didn't
Speaker 1: really know the guy. Maybe he was just that time.
Speaker 1: But the guy was an oncologist. This is not a
Speaker 1: low i Q person. Although there are there's book smarts
Speaker 1: in their street smarts. There's all between the two. Well,
Speaker 1: I know, I know there are definitely people out there
Speaker 1: higher high high i Q with not a lick of sense.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really really true. Uh So that's yet
Speaker 1: another theory down. Let's go to another theory here, which
Speaker 1: is that he was indeed a treasure hunter. But as
Speaker 1: we all know, he kind of fell in with that crowd,
Speaker 1: the shadow Evenola group. Whichever one of the seven there are,
Speaker 1: whichever one of these what these people they were, I mean, again,
Speaker 1: this is more potentially BS, I don't know, But this
Speaker 1: is the thing about this about this story is that
Speaker 1: it's about the treasure. And as you all know, whenever
Speaker 1: the word treasure comes up, immediately clouds of BS immediately
Speaker 1: rise up out of the round to surround the entire story. Right,
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that makes them so fun,
Speaker 1: I mean, because you hear these really fun, cool theories
Speaker 1: about it. But so later on sorting out the weeks
Speaker 1: from the chap makes it really really hard. But this
Speaker 1: this group of people, for reasons unbeknownst, decided that they
Speaker 1: would just you know, double across him and plant Obama's room.
Speaker 1: So maybe that's maybe that's what happened. Again, and you know,
Speaker 1: the absence of any evidence, and we don't even know
Speaker 1: who these people were, if they even exist, it's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to credit this theory. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: if he had a shadow organization partner, they figure, all right,
Speaker 1: he's the treasure hunter. He can find the treasure. And finally,
Speaker 1: you know, on this day he finds a treasure and
Speaker 1: they say, okay, well you take these two boxes as
Speaker 1: your finder's fee. Right there. You know, they all look
Speaker 1: the same, right He opens one and it's got millions
Speaker 1: of dollars, and he says, okay, I'll take two boxes
Speaker 1: in my finder's fee, no problem, And they hand him
Speaker 1: one that's a bomb, so that he can't ever, so
Speaker 1: they can double cross him. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: so that they know ostensibly get rid of him, get
Speaker 1: rid of any evidence, and also they are free to
Speaker 1: just do whatever they want with the money, and there's
Speaker 1: no one who's not part of the organization who knows
Speaker 1: about it or where it was or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And then he you know, sitting in his hotel room
Speaker 1: thinking oh yeah, I have this money, and go to
Speaker 1: open this box that opens it into the bomb and
Speaker 1: blows him up but doesn't actually quite do his job,
Speaker 1: doesn't quite kill him that but at least in that
Speaker 1: case of with the fear of God, and because he
Speaker 1: didn't squeal on anybody, not that we know of, you
Speaker 1: think could have a motive, because i mean, obviously this
Speaker 1: cost him pretty dearly. Although you know, it is. It
Speaker 1: is entirely possible that let's just presume for a second
Speaker 1: that the scenario that Devon just ran through is what happened.
Speaker 1: It's entirely possible that he squealed, but he did it
Speaker 1: to the US government and they used that information in
Speaker 1: some manner for the manner you know, then we don't
Speaker 1: you know, we're like, oh, he obviously didn't squeal because
Speaker 1: nothing happened. Maybe stuff did happen, Yeah, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's never been informed about. It's clever enough that we
Speaker 1: never knew. Yeah, it's entirely possible. It might be that
Speaker 1: they were actually able to sus out a connection between
Speaker 1: the previous bombings in the Philippines and the bomb makings
Speaker 1: that were found, the fragments that were left found. Maybe
Speaker 1: and maybe the Philippines and the US government just sort
Speaker 1: of quietly worked it up behind the scenes and everybody
Speaker 1: was satisfied, and they just didn't tell the president. Well,
Speaker 1: he wasn't the president at that time, you know that,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't until fairly recently he became president.
Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, and so, and I got a feeling
Speaker 1: that he's got a kind of a big ego, and
Speaker 1: that part of it is his outrage was just his
Speaker 1: feeling that he'd been left out of the loop. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say, but all I canna say is
Speaker 1: that he's duly elected at the Filipino people want him,
Speaker 1: then more power to him. So let's come down to
Speaker 1: our bottom line here on this story. Whatever it is
Speaker 1: about this bomb, wherever it came from, I think he
Speaker 1: had some guilty knowledge of it, because you were, as
Speaker 1: you were recalled, he did reportedly at least tell the
Speaker 1: police while he was still bleeding and being taken from
Speaker 1: the room, say, oh, somebody through a grenade in here?
Speaker 1: Is there any chance that there could have been a
Speaker 1: grenade that set off a bomb? Yeah? Good question. But
Speaker 1: I tend to think that these guys, I mean, these
Speaker 1: these demolitions experts, these guys are kind of like cs
Speaker 1: I for bomb scenes. And there's a lot of bombs
Speaker 1: that go off in the Philippines, so you guys probably
Speaker 1: know their stuff. I just wonder if there was a
Speaker 1: bomb in his room, and I see what you're saying,
Speaker 1: that somebody lobbed a grenade in there. I don't know,
Speaker 1: if I don't know if the bigger bomb would cover
Speaker 1: up all evidence that a grenade even was in there
Speaker 1: or what. I don't know. Sec Yeah, I see what
Speaker 1: you're saying. But grenades, like they create their own special
Speaker 1: kind of shrapnel, you know, And so I would think
Speaker 1: they would have been finding all these pieces of shrapnel
Speaker 1: in his body and around the room and stuff. That
Speaker 1: would be different. Was that what floor was here? I
Speaker 1: assume the third floor, room three oh five, but I
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe and maybe in the Philippines, and I
Speaker 1: mean some places I hear they number them from the
Speaker 1: top floor down. So well, I mean I'm just thinking, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: that's why I was asking. I'm like, if he's on
Speaker 1: the third floor, you got a hell of an arm
Speaker 1: to throw. Unless somebody opened up the door to his
Speaker 1: room and chucked it in from the hallway, I I
Speaker 1: automatically assumed they threw it through the window. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: could have been that. It could have been you know,
Speaker 1: you get the room next door and you just like
Speaker 1: sort of lean way out the window and fling it
Speaker 1: in the window next door. Now, I you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I know how I would do it. I
Speaker 1: would get the room next door. The subtle guy that
Speaker 1: I am, and I get a saws all and I
Speaker 1: would saw it. I would sade grenade sized hole through
Speaker 1: that connecting door and then just push a grenade or
Speaker 1: two through there, you know, And yeah, it would totally
Speaker 1: catch them off guard. They'd just be going, what's that?
Speaker 1: And then then hear this, they said, oh my god, grandad.
Speaker 1: Now just kidding anyway, they probably Honestly, I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think that was a great and I think that
Speaker 1: I think that he was trying to mislead the police,
Speaker 1: which indicates to me that that he probably was blown
Speaker 1: up by his own bomb. But I don't think he
Speaker 1: was doing it for the CIA or some local terrorist group.
Speaker 1: And I don't think he was a master bomb maker,
Speaker 1: So maybe he was just playing with bombs for his
Speaker 1: own ends. I mean, there are people who do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I knew a kid in high school who
Speaker 1: blew himself up making a bomb. Yeah, I knew a
Speaker 1: kid who all the serious damage to his hand. All
Speaker 1: of us knew somebody in high school to blew himself up,
Speaker 1: don't we. I mean, maybe you don't know. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: more of an older generation thing and kids today aren't
Speaker 1: so much into that stuff. But when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: It just seemed like every class had had a dead
Speaker 1: kid from a bomb. Yeah, he did kids from other stuff. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the one I knew didn't die,
Speaker 1: but he end up pretty good. Yeah, that's why I
Speaker 1: stay away from that stuff. Good idea, and all our listeners,
Speaker 1: you guys should do that too, So stay away from
Speaker 1: the bombs. Uh. So. Yeah, I think that he knew
Speaker 1: something about that bomb, But beyond that, I just can't say.
Speaker 1: I don't think he was a super secret spy. I
Speaker 1: yea mystery to me, but yeah, so I think we
Speaker 1: can put that part of it to rest. He was
Speaker 1: not with the CIA. I don't know what the heck
Speaker 1: he was doing. I mean, there's just the reporting on
Speaker 1: this just makes it so tough. The Philippine reporting gets
Speaker 1: more and more inflammatory, to the point that I can't
Speaker 1: help but question every single statement that's made. Yeah, I know, so,
Speaker 1: I I really I don't know where I stand on
Speaker 1: this other than I feel bad that the guy was
Speaker 1: in the middle of an explosion. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: the but like you said, the reporting on it is
Speaker 1: such and I'm not saying that Filipino reporters are any
Speaker 1: worse than American, but they just went out and found
Speaker 1: some people who claimed to know this guy and just
Speaker 1: basically printed whatever bs these guys told him. And of course,
Speaker 1: Meiring himself might have been probably was a total BS
Speaker 1: artist himself, if he they did say all the things
Speaker 1: that he said, these things that he said to people,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he was kind of yeah, and
Speaker 1: so it's kind of amazing this guy was telling these
Speaker 1: tall tales and then it turns into this international incident.
Speaker 1: Now our relationship with the Philippines is seriously kind of
Speaker 1: in question. It's like really, uh So, anyway, hopefully Rodrigo
Speaker 1: do Teritory, if you are listening to this episode, first
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Speaker 1: you know, take take this all to heart. All right,
Speaker 1: that's about it. Um any any more theories on your
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Speaker 1: Ignore those guys. So that's about it for this week
Speaker 1: until next week whatever they still in say in the Philippines.
Speaker 1: This one was a blast. Bye, guys, dudes,