WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Michael Meiring—Treasure Hunter or Terrorist? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.560 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:06.440 by Kittenman's One Size Fits All. Instead, it's brought to 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:10.520 you by crime Con. That's right, crime Con. We're gonna 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:12.960 be there. We really want to meet you and see 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:17.040 you and provide you with amazing programming and I don't 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.880 know whatever. Anyway, it's in Nashville this year, and if 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.440 you want tickets, please go to crime con dot com 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.720 and use the promo code sideways for ten PC off 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.480 your purchase, which is amazing. It's good. It's a good 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.280 deal and we really look forward to seeing you guys there. Um, 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.400 I know it sounds like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm not. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.640 I really want to meet you guys and have fun 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:57.200 with you, guys. Crime con dot Com promo code sideways. Yeah, 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.920 hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:12.319 am Joe Joint as always, by and Steve and uh. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.720 This week it's time for another fascinating mystery. We're going 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.080 to talk about what they call in the Philippines. See 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.920 Michael my Ring Mystery. Michael Myering was a shadowy person 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.560 and uh, well, nobody knows exactly what he was or 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.480 because he claimed to be a treasure hunter. Some people 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.960 thought he might have been something else, like maybe a 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.000 terrorist or a CIA operative. Well, we'll tell you everything 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:35.720 you need to know and you can make up your 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.120 own mind. Well, by the way, I want to quick aside, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.720 I want to thank Landon who suggested this. Thanks dude, 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.920 appreciate it if you are a dude. By the way, 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:49.360 that anyway, but thanks Landing. So let me let's start 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.560 from the beginning here. The date was May sixteen, two 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.840 thousand two. So, yeah, there's an old turn of the 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.280 century story. Uh. Yeah, remember the turn of the century. Yeah, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.560 things are a lot different. Cars looked a little different. 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.160 Hair was longer or maybe shorter. I don't remember it. Both. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.360 Cellphones was different. Yeah, hair, it was different. Cell phones 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:13.280 remember cellphones that they were big? Uh they were big. 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.440 This started kind of big, okay. Um. So May sixteen, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.239 two thousand two, there was an explosion in room three 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.919 oh five at the Evergreen Hotel in Davo. Mend to 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.960 now the Philippines. So as you know, men and now 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.840 is that big island at the south end of the 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.480 archipelago that is the Philippines. Uh, and it was a 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.359 big city there, and uh, there have been other terrorist 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.880 bombings which had recently been taking place across the Philippines. Uh, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.600 and there was a big one just three weeks before. 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.799 They killed fifteen people wounded fifty five. So a while 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.600 bombing going on, people are a little bit on edge, understandably, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.560 So there's an explosion in room three oh five at 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.120 the hotel was occupied by a band named Michael Terrence 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.960 my Ring, who was an American oncologist that's a cancer 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.720 doctor for those who them. Now. He'd been a regular 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.200 guest at this hotel for the past eight to ten years. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.040 He's been spending a lot of time in the Philippines, 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.680 says the early nineteen nineties, and on his most recent visit, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.560 he checked into the Evergreen Hotel December fourteen, two thousand one. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.480 Several months before that's yeah, it's like six months before. 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.400 Four months before, yeah, I guess six months. He seemed 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.959 to frequent the same hotels. There was I think it 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.160 was like three different hotels that he liked to stay at, 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.640 depending on where he was. Yeah, and he spent like 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.079 somewhere from six to eight months a year in the Philippines, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.760 so he was a regular at these places. I'm surprised 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.160 he didn't try to find time shares. I was just 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:41.160 going to even just buy a house, yeah, rent an apartment, yeah, 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.520 for the exchange rate from what I know, the exchange 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.040 rate in the Philippines. Like you can it doesn't take 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.080 very much American dollars to live like a king in 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.240 the Philippines. So I don't know why buiep. I mean, 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:55.200 you can hire a housekeeper for pretty cheap there. Oh, 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.040 I'm just I'm guessing maybe he just decided it was 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.440 easier not to and why he was doing it this 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:03.160 way might have been a commitment fobe. Yeah, yeah, it 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:04.680 might have been. It might have been one of these 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:06.240 people like my dad was kind of this way. He 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.160 just didn't want to buy into real estate because he 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.600 was sure the bubble was going to burst. My dad 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.320 was totally right about that. He was just stopped by 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.960 several decades. I mean, if you maintain that for long enough, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.039 it will eventually be true. Oh, totally true. Yeah. Well, 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.800 whatever the reasons he was staying at this hotel. Uh, so, 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.640 of course there had been a big kaboom. The police, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.640 paramedics show up. They found that Myering was pretty mangled. 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.960 His legs were really badly mangled. Unfortunately they had to 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.920 be amputated. So they were amputated because some of the 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.679 stories just talked about how they were he was wounded 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.120 and messed up. Yeah. Once the one version I read 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.719 that only one leg was amputated, but most, mostly the 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.240 more authoritative ones like in the Manila Times, etcetera, said 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.440 both legs were amputad. Okay, so we'll go with that, 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.039 all right. I just want to clarify because I was 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.479 I was never sure. No, it is hard to tell. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.720 Was it just his legs that were injured or was 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.120 the rest of his body injured. He got yeah, some 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.279 some big third degree burns over a lot of the 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:58.800 rest of his body. So pretty much what you would 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.480 expect by somebody being hot off guard by their room exploding. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.560 Uh yeah, pretty much. Yeah. So he was taken to 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.200 the Davo Doctors Hospital, which is where his legs were amputated. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.160 But before he lost consciousness, he told police that somebody 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.560 had lobbed a grenade into his room. But then later 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:16.920 on with the police, bomb experts took a close look 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.080 at the scene. Well, the evidence to them looked like 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.560 the blast was from a bomb and not a grenade, 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.839 and Miring had had two metal boxes that he kept 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.279 in his room, and it looked like the bomb had 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.960 actually been inside one of those boxes. So I'm curious, right, 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.080 And but here's where the story thickens a little bit. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.040 While my Ring was in the hospital in Davos and 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.200 FBI agents came by to ask him some questions. This 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.080 is where it gets controversial. According to some sources, local 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.159 police who were there guarding Meyring tried to stop the 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.200 FBI from getting into his room, but the FBI guy, 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.720 the FBI guys apparently were kind of bullying and they 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.360 just basically insisted on going in and talking to him. Uh. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.160 And then they took my Ring out of the hospital, 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:58.960 flew into another hospital in Manila, which is of course 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.960 at the far other end of the Philippines, of course, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.560 of course, yeah, yeah. And then after I don't know, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.840 I'm not sure exactly when this happened, he Ring left 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.240 the country. Apparently, according to some people, the FBI spirit 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.599 Admiring out of the Philippines and back to the U S. 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:17.840 Apparently he was taken to San Diego. Ostensibly, to quote 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.400 a famous podcaster person, uh, it was for more advanced 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.680 treatments than what you could get in the Philippines. So 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.200 here's the But Okay, when I read this stuff about this, 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.640 and I was reading the stuff that, oh, gosh, which 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:33.480 US government organs? I want to say it's the State Department, 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:35.760 but it probably is. And whoever it was, they were like, 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:40.119 oh yeah, no, they went there with police officers, local 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.000 police officers in tow to comply with the rules, like 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.120 they they you know, they're accounting of it is that 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.080 they followed the book and the locals were with them. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.560 And the US government says yeah as well. And so 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.720 there's a there's a lot of conflicting accounts in this one. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.320 I think they probably they did. They did obey the rules. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.240 You know, the FBI that says that they had a 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.159 liaison with the Philippine National Police. They totally cooperated and 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:08.839 coordinated with them. So that's what that's how they put it. 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:14.480 Um not to disparage the Philippine police is something you 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.960 always say before you're gonna disparase someone exactly. But you know, 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.080 I in my talkings with people from the Philippines, which 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.360 I've had actually haven't had extensive talkings with people from 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:29.320 the Philippines, um most of their citizens generally feel like 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.040 the police are pretty corrupt and it doesn't take very 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.080 much to get them to do what you want. So 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.160 you know, whether or not the FBI or you know, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.840 the US officials were complying, or they had paid them off, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:42.960 or maybe they hadn't paid them off, and so the 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:47.480 police were like, hey, you didn't follow a protocol, you 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.920 didn't pay us off. What's going on? And you know, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.840 later reported that they had had been done without their consent. 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:56.080 There's just so much to not know about it. Yeah, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.760 there is. That's just that's there's once again something that 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.040 we said for impartial, law abiding law enforcement. And I'll 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.280 just add that if I had gotten my legs blown 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.440 off and third degree burns all over my body in 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.920 a foreign country, I would be super thankful for my 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.840 government coming and taking me home. Yeah, that's a good point, 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.840 you know. So you know, it's a whole question. The 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:19.160 whole question here is not so much that they did it, 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.800 but why they did it. You could ask for it. Yeah, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.240 it might have been um but but back to the 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.040 bomb scene, it looked like the bomb, according to the 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.360 Philippine police, was mostly most likely an improvised type. Initially, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.760 they concluded dynamite, but that they decided it was some 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.440 other higher tech explosive like ammoni nitrate, which had ammonium 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.600 nitratee in if they found traces of ammonium nitride, isn't 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.319 that the same thing that was in Oklahoma City in 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.319 the same kind of bomb essentially, Yeah, I mean that's 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:52.160 that's one way to get your ammonium nitrate. You don't 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.760 have to use fertilized they did there. You can actually 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:56.679 get more purified versions of it. But yeah, you can 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.679 bind your ammonium nitrate with some fuel oil vaida you've 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.240 got a nice unstable explosive. My My reason for saying 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.760 it was kind of like I was thinking that it 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.280 had to be something akin to a fertilizer bomb. Is 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.760 he is in the Philippines, and fertilizer is probably easy 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.760 to get. Ahold of the higher tech stuff maybe not 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.079 so much. Yeah, and there are and this is the 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.760 whole range. You can improvise something with fertilizer and diesel 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.400 or there's some more higher tech stuff that also uses 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.679 his ammonium nitrate, same kind of similar thing or refined 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.439 process and it's a it's a better explosive. But you know, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.480 but as far as what he had there, was it 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.400 improvised or was it you know, high tech stuff. I'm 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:37.760 not totally sure, but of course, uh, if Myron did 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.840 have himself a bomb, which appeared that he did, that's 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.719 illegal in the Philippines. Even so that made him kind 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.400 of a wanted man of course at this but by 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.200 this point he's out of the Philippines. They wanted him back. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.760 They they actually filed charges against him in the the Philippines, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.199 but the U. S Government did nothing to return him. Instead, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.400 Byron lives out the rest of his days here in 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.160 the US, maybe at his hometown of out of Mesa, California, 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.320 although there was one report that he'd been seeing in Texas. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.160 But it doesn't really matter because apparently he's died since 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.360 I think he died in two thousand twelve, because I 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.520 believe he was about sixty six when this bombing happened. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.640 So you know, seventy six, you know, plus take off 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.680 a couple of years for having your body burned and 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.880 you're blown off, you know, you know, so that's not outrageous. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.440 The controversy didn't die. Two weeks after the bombing, the 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.079 mayor of Davo Rodrigo dore tab a guy who likes 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.400 to scream. Yeah, he's kind of he's he's kind of bombastic, 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.199 I would say the one way of putting it. He 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:36.679 reminds me of another certain politician in our country a 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.959 little bit, but a lot worse in my opinion. Yeah, well, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.360 I'm talking to me. I'm gonna make judgments. Yeah. But 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.920 he went public and blasted the U. S Government for 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.280 taking my Ring out of the country. He accused of 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.520 see I of conducting a false flag operation in the Philippines. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.000 Explain to folks, what's the false flag operation? Yeah? A 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.920 false flag is where you uh commit some sort of 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.800 usually some sort of a crime or an operation, but 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.040 you make it look like some other country has done it. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.120 So the idea is here would be like, well, okay, 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.840 we'll playing some bombs, will blame it on some Muslim 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:10.720 separatist group, and then if we do that in public 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.640 opinion and the Philippines will turn against these guys, and 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.839 then the national government will adopt a policy that's more 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:22.240 anti Muslim, which is well engineering okay. And so in 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.400 this telling, my Ring was an agent of the CIA. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.080 He was running this operation, which is why the US 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:30.000 got him out. Of the country so quickly DETERCTI was 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.400 very angry about this situation. He threatened unspecified violence towards 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.199 the FBI if he they ever came back to Dabo again. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.360 I know he's that's the kind of guy he is. Actually, 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.680 he's actually he actually claims to have killed people in 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.000 his drug wards. This is the same guy he's obviously 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.680 president of the Philippines today. If you don't know that 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.680 he does. He just claim in the past to have 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.800 actually summarily executed people who were caught with drugs. Oh yeah, 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.679 I know they had. I can't remember who it is. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.760 Some humans rights group is totally in arms because you 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.760 get caught with drugs, essentially they're they're just taking you out. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.840 And the number of deaths capital punishment style deaths had 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.240 just skyrocket. And once he came into office, like to 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.319 an absurd rate. Well, it began long before he was president. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.360 I mean, when he was mayor of Dabo, he cleaned 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.160 up quote unquote the situation down there, and the same 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.560 thing happened. They were they were what they called death squads. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.719 At least there were some accusations that there were death 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.640 squads killing people outright all over the place then, and 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.440 and apparently the Philippine people liked his style of after 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.120 they went ahead and made him president. You know, um, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.240 so whatever, you know, they're they're tied up to elect 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.679 whoever they want. But this might explain while U. S. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.600 Philippines relations have gone downhill. If this particular incident is 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.800 what sour Detarty so much on the United States and 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.959 our relationship with the Philippines. Um, I'm not sure if 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.040 it's not. Maybe he was already kind of anti American 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.280 and this was just an excuse. I don't know, and 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:56.880 I don't know when he's made his speeches. Was May thirty, 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.160 two thousand to just two weeks after the explosion. I 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.200 don't know if he had any any special knowledge of 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.000 the situation or if he had just been reading the 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.840 newspapers like everybody else. But he wasn't mad. I mean 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.480 you read that article, right, did he strike you as angry? 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.640 He strikes me as angry constantly. Well, there's that. That's 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:18.240 that's why he's yeah. But but that's why this is 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.680 still controversial and still a mystery because who exactly was 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.840 Michael Myering and just what exactly was he up to? 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.640 So that's what we're going to figure out here. Ostensibly there, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.280 I know, he was a citizen of South Africa who 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.600 emigrated to the U S. And was naturalized towards the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.520 end of the apartheid era. As I said before, he 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.720 was not colleges. He was Caucasian, Yeah, he was. And 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:44.680 supposedly he was affiliated with the African National Congress, although 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.880 I'm not too sure about that. I mean, there's in 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:48.840 this story you read that he was affiliated with all 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:53.319 kinds of groups. That's I'm sure you're aware, very disparate groups. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.679 I would say he's also been accused of being affiliated 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.000 with another group of people who are like white supremacists 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.120 and Nazis back in the U S. Which is aththetical 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.559 the whole African National Congress thing. What do you think 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.400 about it? But there is one story that was told 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.800 by as a friend of his name David Hawthorne, who 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.920 said that my Ring told him once that he'd given 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.520 a box of old US federal notes to the South 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.600 African government after apartheime. So this is after Nelson Mandela 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.520 became president of South Africa. He made them a gift 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.240 of this box of notes had, according to my Iring, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.160 five million dollars in it. I know a lot of money, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.040 that's whole bank notes. I don't know how big the 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.720 denominations were. I did a little checking, and I know 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:32.360 back on the day they used to print bills as 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.200 large as ten thousand dollars and denominations. Wait, where where's 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.760 my ring saying he got the money from? Well, that's 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.360 a little hazy. This is he's a get a treasure hunter, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.840 because I see you've got information here about dates and 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.600 types of bills, and so I'm trying to figure out 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.560 it's not like he just went down to the bank 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.600 and made a cash withdrawal. No, no, got at all, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.720 not at all. These were These were old bank notes. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.640 Of course, since I don't I'm not sure what the 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.880 biggest the biggest denomination is today's a five d. They're 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.240 still making it. They're still making a five dollar bill, right, 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.520 I'm not sure I do. None of us are rich 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.880 enough to know that. But just opened my wallet. I 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.440 know it's But but again, back in the day, they 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.960 used to make him a lot bigger. Ten thousand bush 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.600 was the biggest one. Yeah, So assuming that this box 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.640 with five million bucks in it was in ten thousand dollars, denominations. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:25.040 My back of the envelope calculation is that that would 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.000 be a hundred ten pounds. Well that's a lot of bucks, 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:33.280 and of course you know it's you know, yeah, My 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.520 calculation is that if if it was a hundred dollar bills, 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.680 it would weigh a little over a ton. Soy box. 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:41.520 But asked as for where he got these, well, this 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.120 is the Philippines, you know, ohmishly just gold and all 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.560 that stuff. You pronounced it right this time, I don't know, 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.440 but this is this box was one of twelve, which 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:52.960 would mean about six billion dollars. Again, as you ask 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.560 where did you get it? Well, it could have been 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.120 from ships, I mean because my ron of course was 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.920 looking for yamash she is gold. And uh if what 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.160 he said about those twelve boxes of cash, it's true 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.880 that it sounds like he found part of it. Because 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.000 as they all know, the Japanese and World War two 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.760 and before World War two were looting East Asia of everything. 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.080 They would go to the banks and I'm sure carry 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.560 away all the bank notes. They all everybody's jewelry, their 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.600 silver candelabra and you know, their rings and gold coins, 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.640 silver coins, everything, jewels, And that was Yamashita's gold and 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.680 supposedly just about all of it wound up in the Philippines. 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.520 And we've actually covered that story, talked about this story, 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.600 yeah years ago, actually was it was a couple of 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.040 years ago. Yeah. Uh. And of course, as if you 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.720 listen to that episodes, you know, towards the end of 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.680 the war, there was some efforts to transport all that 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.160 stuff back to Japan because it did look like the 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.880 Philippines were going to fall to the to the Allies, 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.000 and so, uh, it had to be transported back to Japan. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.960 So what to set it on? Walships and submarines of course, 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.560 and they're apparently around Menta now there are a lot 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.920 of sunken ships and submarines, so it's kind of uh 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.600 worth taking a look at them, I suppose. So that 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:01.160 might be where I found it. If they if they 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.520 got a ship or something that's got these crates of cash, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.119 and he's found this thing and salvage these crates. Okay, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.760 that could be one potential source of it, or maybe 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.800 he was just b sing. I don't know, it could 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.720 be that too. In fact, I'm kind of betting on that. 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.720 But yeah, that would be sealed really well, to have 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.520 survived underwater, not necessarily. My understanding about the way things 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.280 work is underwater is that you can leave it down 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.880 there as long as you want. It's the process when 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:31.680 you bring it back to the surface. You've got to 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:38.919 manage that process kind of carefully. Sinization and separation and 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:44.800 drying is time consumer expensive. Otherwise it just it turns 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.240 to dust. Yeah, and so that's why I'm that's why 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.639 I'm curious about that part. But well, it might have 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.080 been something else too. I mean, there's not just on ships. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.120 It could have been buried in a a cave somewhere. Yeah. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.920 It also could have explained why maybe you know, maybe 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.080 he knew where it was. He had you know, a 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.520 friend who was guarding it, lived on a boat above 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.640 it or something like that. He brought you know, one 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.320 box up at a time. Yeah, and it was a 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.840 very slow process. It would explain why he was staying 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.119 at kind of a crappy hotel. Actually have the money yet, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.919 you know, Okay, I can behind that. Yeah, maybe that's it. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.000 I don't know, um, but that's our that's so far 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:22.520 that the only treasure we know for sure that he 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.160 found it. We're pretty sure he didn't actually find that 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.159 he also had supposed to supposedly partnered up with the 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.239 Manila based group of people. That's you see a lot 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:33.000 of this in a story. There's this shadowy group of 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.840 people who aren't exactly named, and you don't exactly find out. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:37.680 But these are the ones that I said had links 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.879 to this white supremacist group back in the US and 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.240 also to the neo Nazi Party of the United States. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.639 And I'm not sure why he joined up with these people. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.119 Um it might be needed capital, or maybe they just 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.320 had information that they needed, or maybe they just were 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.400 like the mob and they just muscled in on the operation. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:54.919 Maybe they were the only ones who know how to 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:57.280 desalinate money. They could be that too. They might have 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:59.680 had some skills that didn't get a lot of experience. Well, 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.800 there was you know, another thing, there was some some 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.960 some messages between him and his demolition experts where the 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.880 demolition experts was talking about him the handling this situation. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.439 He described what sounds to me like the guy was 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.679 talking about maybe unexploded dealing with unexploded ordinance, which if 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.919 you're salvaging a warship that's sunken, there's probably gonna be 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.040 some bombs in our chillery shows and stuff like that 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.160 on board of that ship. Hell, to this day, they're 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:31.160 still finding minds in Britain in backyards. But yeah, but 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.840 unexploded bombs, Oh yeah, they find them all the time, 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.639 I mean still and uh, and so you've gotta be 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.720 real careful with that stuff, obviously. According to the same 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.240 guy I mentioned, David Hawthorne before it was a friend 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:45.280 of my Rings. My Ring was afraid of his new partners, 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:48.919 these shadowy Minila based people. He said to Hawthorne that 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.600 his life was in danger, and that's my Ring's life, 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.600 and that it had something to do with the treasure. 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.399 That kind of vague stuff. But so the question, of 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.400 course is why didn't he leave the country. Well, apparently 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.600 wanted you get a stranger before he left the country. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.600 Maybe too, I don't know, Yeah, me too. Yeah, I 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.480 suppose i'd risk my life for that kind of cash 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.640 and why not. Yeah I probably would, or at risk 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:14.120