WEBVTT - Trump Impeachment Fury

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossol from Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>In a pair of speech is a day after he

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<v Speaker 1>was acquitted on charges of abuse of power and obstructing Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>President Donald Trump blasted his political foes, calling the impeachment

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<v Speaker 1>drama evil and accusing his opponents of corruption and being

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<v Speaker 1>dirty cops. Adam Schiff is a vicious, horrible person. Nancy

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<v Speaker 1>Pelosi is a horrible person, and she wanted to impeach

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<v Speaker 1>a long time ago when she said I pray for

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<v Speaker 1>the president. I pray for the president. She may pray,

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<v Speaker 1>but she prays for the opposite. But I doubt she

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<v Speaker 1>prays it all. And these are vicious people. Joining me

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<v Speaker 1>is National Security attorney Brad moss, a partner Mark Zaide.

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<v Speaker 1>Susan Collins and other senators said that, you know, President

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<v Speaker 1>Trump has learned his lesson after the impeachment, but what

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<v Speaker 1>does his speech today tell you? Well, the view of

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<v Speaker 1>Susan Collins and Marco Roumio and Lamar Alexander was all

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<v Speaker 1>based more on aspiration than anything else. They're hoping that

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<v Speaker 1>he said the president would take something that they would have,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, learned a lesson like you would expect the

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<v Speaker 1>child to learn a lesson after he get slapped on

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<v Speaker 1>the wrist, and hoping that having gone through this, the

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<v Speaker 1>president would you know, understand how he had crossed the line.

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<v Speaker 1>The speech or whatever we're the celebration, whatever we're calling it,

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<v Speaker 1>that transpired today um in the White House was clearly

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<v Speaker 1>an indication that as far as the President is concerned,

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<v Speaker 1>there was no lesson to be learned other than he

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<v Speaker 1>can get away with it so long as his party

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<v Speaker 1>will back him and cover things for him. He made

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<v Speaker 1>no apologies for what he did. He still believes he

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<v Speaker 1>did nothing wrong. He still believes it was a perfect call.

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<v Speaker 1>He still believes he should be allowed to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, as we're seeing already in reporting his

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<v Speaker 1>indications that the efforts, both the private ones through rooted

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<v Speaker 1>Giuliani and then the ones not going through the Senate,

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<v Speaker 1>are going to ramp back up, and they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>continue doing exactly what they're doing to dig up dirt

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<v Speaker 1>on the bidens and try to press foreign parties to

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<v Speaker 1>provide that information in exchange for official favors. In addition,

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<v Speaker 1>he offered a new defense, saying that he had to

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<v Speaker 1>do it basically because there was a treaty signed with

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<v Speaker 1>Ukraine about corruption. So this was something that even his

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<v Speaker 1>attorneys didn't bring up. Yes, so he's referencing a mutual

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<v Speaker 1>legal assistance treaty that had been signed. And this was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of various Republican and conservative operatives had mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>this in passing on Twitter over the last few months.

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<v Speaker 1>Here was the problem that was designed for existing US

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<v Speaker 1>government investigations if there was, you know, an ongoing investigation

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI was looking into potential crimes committed by Hunter Biden,

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<v Speaker 1>that there was a treaty to elate to enable a

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<v Speaker 1>mechanism to enable the two countries to exchange information. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>there is no such investigation. The FBI has not investigated,

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<v Speaker 1>is not investigating, or otherwise having indicted either Hunter Biden

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<v Speaker 1>or Joe Biden for anything. This was a private scheme

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<v Speaker 1>being run through Rudy Giuliani, using the connection to the

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<v Speaker 1>President as the basis to state that absent these investigations

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<v Speaker 1>being announced, the aid was going to be cut and

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<v Speaker 1>they were using certain players like Ambassador Sonlin to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course it all goes without saying that if

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<v Speaker 1>there was something here, there would be official investigations by

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<v Speaker 1>the U. S. Government. There are no official investigations. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's why the Trump lawyers and the you know in

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<v Speaker 1>the Senatorial never bother bringing this up because they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>go through any of the official channels that the assistance

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<v Speaker 1>that the Mutual Systems Treaty considers and contemplates, and that

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't anything that they ever invoked. This was a private scheme.

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<v Speaker 1>I read today that the Treasury Department has handed over

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<v Speaker 1>Hunter Biden's tax records to a command I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>if it was the tax records or if it was

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<v Speaker 1>travel records from the Secret Service. Wasn't quite sure. I

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't quite clear what would turned over. But either way,

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<v Speaker 1>whatever that is, it's amazing how suddenly the executive branch

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<v Speaker 1>is able to turn over information to Congress, is willing

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<v Speaker 1>to provide it in a timely fashion. In complete contrast

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<v Speaker 1>with what we saw over the last few months as

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<v Speaker 1>this impeach investigation ramped up and led up, led to

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<v Speaker 1>the ultimate impeachment in the House and then the acquittal

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<v Speaker 1>in the Senate. All of those categorical refuses to cooperate,

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<v Speaker 1>all the insistence that no one should be allowed to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to Congress. Something went out the window now that

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<v Speaker 1>it is something that helps the president in supports the

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<v Speaker 1>president's political agenda. So yeah, it's rank hypocrisy. Mitt Romney

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<v Speaker 1>made history by being the only Senator to vote to

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<v Speaker 1>impeach a president of his own party, and today President

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<v Speaker 1>Trump has set his sights, it seems for Mitt Romney,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wonder if he'll be ostracized in Washington by

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<v Speaker 1>the Republicans, even though John McCain when he gave that

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<v Speaker 1>thumbs down vote on Obamacare, was not ostracized. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think that Mitt Romney will be completely ostracized by the

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<v Speaker 1>party for the most part, in the sense that he's

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna be expelled from the you know, Republican caucus

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<v Speaker 1>and the setting. He's not going to be pushed out

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<v Speaker 1>of the Republican Party in general. He's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>isolated a little bit in terms of some things. There's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be unending vitriol from the White House against him.

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<v Speaker 1>He's not gonna get any assistance from them on any

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<v Speaker 1>of his projects. The Trump family will almost certainly try

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<v Speaker 1>to help any primary challenge that might be launched against

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<v Speaker 1>Romney in the future if he runs for re election

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<v Speaker 1>in a few years. But Mitch McConnell's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>do anything that jeopardized that seat in Utah. He needs

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<v Speaker 1>his majority and that was that's one of the critical seats,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's not going to run any risk. But this

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<v Speaker 1>is again, this is what we live with in the

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<v Speaker 1>era of Trump. In this cult of personality, you do

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<v Speaker 1>not dissent, you do not question dear leader. You must

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<v Speaker 1>at all times be loyal, even if he's not loyal

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<v Speaker 1>to you. And it's a rather distressing way to see

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<v Speaker 1>the Party of Lincoln go in the sense that they

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<v Speaker 1>are now just unwilling to ever question this cult of

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<v Speaker 1>personality that has taken over them. How Speaker Nancy Pelosi,

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<v Speaker 1>who was one of the subjects of President Trump's ire today,

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<v Speaker 1>says that she'd done her part to be respectful to him.

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<v Speaker 1>But now I feel very liberated. I feel that I've

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<v Speaker 1>extended every possible courtesy. I've shown every level of respect.

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<v Speaker 1>I say to my members all the time, there's no

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<v Speaker 1>such thing as an eternal animosity. I've been talking to

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<v Speaker 1>Brad Moss about the President's reaction to his acquittal. So, Brad,

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<v Speaker 1>the question is whether some of the senators in those

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<v Speaker 1>swing states will be punished at the ballot box for

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<v Speaker 1>voting to acquit Trump or whether by the time November

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<v Speaker 1>comes it will all be forgotten. So, assuming there's nothing

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<v Speaker 1>more to come in this particular contact between now and November,

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<v Speaker 1>I think Susan Collins is in serious trouble. I think

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<v Speaker 1>Corey Gardner is in serious trouble, and I think Tom

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<v Speaker 1>Tillis in North Carolina isn't serious trouble now. To be sure,

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<v Speaker 1>all three were facing very serious challenges regardless, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think for part of for part of the reason they

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<v Speaker 1>chose to vote the way they did was a political

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<v Speaker 1>calculation that they would rather risk angering you know, independence

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<v Speaker 1>and Democrats who likely we're never going to vote for

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<v Speaker 1>them anyways, and keep the loyalty of the president, keep

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<v Speaker 1>the President's support, which they'll need to secure reelection. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>then going out on a lamb, voting to convict failing,

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<v Speaker 1>and then having to deal with an angry you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Republican base and an angry White House. So for them,

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<v Speaker 1>their only hope was to basically be political opportunists, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to claim that, oh, we hope he'll learn from this,

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<v Speaker 1>but very much be political opportunists and hold onto power.

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<v Speaker 1>Simply by you know, covering their eyes and covering their

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<v Speaker 1>ears and hoping they don't hear anything or see anything.

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<v Speaker 1>What was surprising to me, in addition to Mitt Romney's vote,

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<v Speaker 1>what was surprising to me was that the Democratic senators

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<v Speaker 1>all voted in favor of convicting Trump. And I mean

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<v Speaker 1>there seemed to be some that are taking a risk

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<v Speaker 1>by doing that. Yeah, And so the ones who are

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<v Speaker 1>here probably thinking of so. One would obviously be um

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<v Speaker 1>Mansion out in West Virginia, which is obviously now become

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<v Speaker 1>a very deeply read state. Um at least, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of how they vote for president that ironically

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<v Speaker 1>has a significant base of registered Democrats, but Democrats who

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<v Speaker 1>usually tend to actually vote for Republican presidential candidates. Um

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<v Speaker 1>Mansion is rather popular out there. Presumably if he chooses

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<v Speaker 1>to run again, this will be a problem for him,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's unclear that it would be one that would

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<v Speaker 1>truly stop him from winning. He has his own base

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<v Speaker 1>of popularity out there long before Donald Trump had presumably

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<v Speaker 1>will still have it now in the aftermatho Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>The other one, the other senator who might be in trouble,

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be Um Senator Cinema out in Arizona.

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<v Speaker 1>But with one thing she has going for her is

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<v Speaker 1>that the demographics of Arizona have been changing. We saw

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<v Speaker 1>that with how the you know, her recent election, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a Democrat winning in Arizona and not been something that

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<v Speaker 1>had happened a long time. You've been seeing those demographics change.

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<v Speaker 1>And so part of her calculation, no doubt, from a

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<v Speaker 1>political context, was if I don't vote to convict, do

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<v Speaker 1>I depress my own base and cause problems for myself

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<v Speaker 1>including a possible primary challenge when I'm up for re elections.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm sure that was part of it. But in

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<v Speaker 1>the end, you would hope for most of these senators

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<v Speaker 1>on both sides of the you would hope that they

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<v Speaker 1>took their oaths seriously and that they were trying to

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<v Speaker 1>render impartial justice. And unfortunately, in the context of some

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<v Speaker 1>of these senators, they chose to take what I would

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<v Speaker 1>view as the political route to save themselves in November

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<v Speaker 1>rather than actually render an impartial verdict. And now attention

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<v Speaker 1>turns back to the House to see whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>some of the chairs of House committees are going to

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<v Speaker 1>restart their investigations into President Trump and one of the

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<v Speaker 1>big things on the line is of course, whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not the House Judiciary Chair will subpoena John Bolton to testify,

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<v Speaker 1>and then whether or not Bolton will comply if subpoenaed.

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<v Speaker 1>So Bolton is obviously, you know, the big shiny object.

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<v Speaker 1>His book is supposed to come out in March. We're

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<v Speaker 1>still waiting to see if that's actually going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been no word yet on the final review Review

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<v Speaker 1>approval um through the National Security Council that has to

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<v Speaker 1>sign off on whether or not this classfied information in

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<v Speaker 1>his book. Um, but yeah, I think you you can

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<v Speaker 1>expect to some extent there's going to be a slew

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<v Speaker 1>of remaining on investigations that will continue on to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of flesh out the record, not the purpose of an

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<v Speaker 1>additional impeachment, but soon Sure the public has everything it

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<v Speaker 1>needs in the run up to November, and I expect

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<v Speaker 1>that there'll be a supplemental report coming out of various

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<v Speaker 1>House chairs um in the run up to November of

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<v Speaker 1>here's the additional information that we were not able to

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<v Speaker 1>get in time for the impeachment investigation and for the

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<v Speaker 1>Senate trial. That the White House did everything it could

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<v Speaker 1>to keep from you. Here's what we've been able to

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<v Speaker 1>collect there. If your ongoing investigations, you the American voter,

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<v Speaker 1>you render your own decision whether or not this matters

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<v Speaker 1>to you. You get to make that ultimate call. And

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<v Speaker 1>what's your take on whether or not Bolton will testify?

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<v Speaker 1>If so, that as six to four thousand questions, So

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<v Speaker 1>you would assume that he will because he said publicly

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<v Speaker 1>he would. But that was the context of a Senate trial. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's no longer an issue. The Senate trial is over.

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<v Speaker 1>The president was acquitted. So does does John bolt do

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<v Speaker 1>John Gon Bolton back down now as he say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no reason, no longer reason for me to come testify.

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<v Speaker 1>You can buy my book and read it there. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure he might make that argument. He might rely on

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<v Speaker 1>some of the defenses he otherwise was going to swear

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<v Speaker 1>off in the Senate trial. Will have to wait and see,

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<v Speaker 1>as Donald Trump would say, to find out what John

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<v Speaker 1>Bolton actually does. If a subpoena is issue, You've a

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<v Speaker 1>litigated cases I believe where there were questions from the

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<v Speaker 1>National Security Agency about a book being published. So in

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<v Speaker 1>this case, is there anything Bolton can do to speed

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<v Speaker 1>up the process. If he's not getting back from the

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<v Speaker 1>n s A. What he needs to in order to

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<v Speaker 1>make changes to the book and to get it moving.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there anything he can do, So what he's able

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<v Speaker 1>to do right now, he's able to file lawsuit if

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted to um under the First Amendment, claiming undue delay,

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<v Speaker 1>claiming that the review process has been unduly delayed and

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<v Speaker 1>it's depriving him of the ability to publish unclassified information

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<v Speaker 1>that is protected by the First Amendment. And to be clear,

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<v Speaker 1>the case law driving from a Supreme Court case in

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<v Speaker 1>the eighties make very clear the government may not censor

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<v Speaker 1>the speech of former government employees in terms of unclassified information.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter if it was executive privilege issues any

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<v Speaker 1>of that. The only thing the government can censor in

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<v Speaker 1>these books of former employees is properly classified information, and

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<v Speaker 1>the employees have the ability to sue to challenge that,

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<v Speaker 1>but they have to go through this process and if

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<v Speaker 1>the government is, you know, drawing it out, there is

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<v Speaker 1>a means to simply bring the suit early claim undue delayed,

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<v Speaker 1>which usually just gets the government to finally finish up

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<v Speaker 1>their decision process, at which point the person can choose

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not they want to continue with the challenge

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<v Speaker 1>or if they're satisfied with what they got out of

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<v Speaker 1>the review. Thanks for being on Bloomberg Law Brad, that's

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<v Speaker 1>Brad Mall's apartment marks A. I'm June Grosso and this

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<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg