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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Grossol from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: In a pair of speech is a day after he

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Speaker 1: was acquitted on charges of abuse of power and obstructing Congress.

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump blasted his political foes, calling the impeachment

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Speaker 1: drama evil and accusing his opponents of corruption and being

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Speaker 1: dirty cops. Adam Schiff is a vicious, horrible person. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Pelosi is a horrible person, and she wanted to impeach

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Speaker 1: a long time ago when she said I pray for

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Speaker 1: the president. I pray for the president. She may pray,

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Speaker 1: but she prays for the opposite. But I doubt she

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Speaker 1: prays it all. And these are vicious people. Joining me

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Speaker 1: is National Security attorney Brad moss, a partner Mark Zaide.

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Speaker 1: Susan Collins and other senators said that, you know, President

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Speaker 1: Trump has learned his lesson after the impeachment, but what

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Speaker 1: does his speech today tell you? Well, the view of

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Speaker 1: Susan Collins and Marco Roumio and Lamar Alexander was all

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Speaker 1: based more on aspiration than anything else. They're hoping that

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Speaker 1: he said the president would take something that they would have,

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Speaker 1: you know, learned a lesson like you would expect the

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Speaker 1: child to learn a lesson after he get slapped on

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Speaker 1: the wrist, and hoping that having gone through this, the

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Speaker 1: president would you know, understand how he had crossed the line.

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Speaker 1: The speech or whatever we're the celebration, whatever we're calling it,

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Speaker 1: that transpired today um in the White House was clearly

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Speaker 1: an indication that as far as the President is concerned,

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Speaker 1: there was no lesson to be learned other than he

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Speaker 1: can get away with it so long as his party

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Speaker 1: will back him and cover things for him. He made

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Speaker 1: no apologies for what he did. He still believes he

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Speaker 1: did nothing wrong. He still believes it was a perfect call.

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Speaker 1: He still believes he should be allowed to do this.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as we're seeing already in reporting his

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Speaker 1: indications that the efforts, both the private ones through rooted

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Speaker 1: Giuliani and then the ones not going through the Senate,

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Speaker 1: are going to ramp back up, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: continue doing exactly what they're doing to dig up dirt

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Speaker 1: on the bidens and try to press foreign parties to

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Speaker 1: provide that information in exchange for official favors. In addition,

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Speaker 1: he offered a new defense, saying that he had to

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Speaker 1: do it basically because there was a treaty signed with

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Speaker 1: Ukraine about corruption. So this was something that even his

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Speaker 1: attorneys didn't bring up. Yes, so he's referencing a mutual

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Speaker 1: legal assistance treaty that had been signed. And this was

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Speaker 1: a lot of various Republican and conservative operatives had mentioned

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Speaker 1: this in passing on Twitter over the last few months.

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Speaker 1: Here was the problem that was designed for existing US

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Speaker 1: government investigations if there was, you know, an ongoing investigation

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Speaker 1: the FBI was looking into potential crimes committed by Hunter Biden,

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Speaker 1: that there was a treaty to elate to enable a

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Speaker 1: mechanism to enable the two countries to exchange information. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: there is no such investigation. The FBI has not investigated,

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Speaker 1: is not investigating, or otherwise having indicted either Hunter Biden

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Speaker 1: or Joe Biden for anything. This was a private scheme

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Speaker 1: being run through Rudy Giuliani, using the connection to the

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Speaker 1: President as the basis to state that absent these investigations

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Speaker 1: being announced, the aid was going to be cut and

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Speaker 1: they were using certain players like Ambassador Sonlin to do it.

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Speaker 1: And of course it all goes without saying that if

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Speaker 1: there was something here, there would be official investigations by

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Government. There are no official investigations. And

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Speaker 1: that's why the Trump lawyers and the you know in

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Speaker 1: the Senatorial never bother bringing this up because they didn't

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Speaker 1: go through any of the official channels that the assistance

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Speaker 1: that the Mutual Systems Treaty considers and contemplates, and that

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Speaker 1: wasn't anything that they ever invoked. This was a private scheme.

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Speaker 1: I read today that the Treasury Department has handed over

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's tax records to a command I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if it was the tax records or if it was

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Speaker 1: travel records from the Secret Service. Wasn't quite sure. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't quite clear what would turned over. But either way,

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Speaker 1: whatever that is, it's amazing how suddenly the executive branch

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Speaker 1: is able to turn over information to Congress, is willing

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Speaker 1: to provide it in a timely fashion. In complete contrast

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Speaker 1: with what we saw over the last few months as

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Speaker 1: this impeach investigation ramped up and led up, led to

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Speaker 1: the ultimate impeachment in the House and then the acquittal

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Speaker 1: in the Senate. All of those categorical refuses to cooperate,

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Speaker 1: all the insistence that no one should be allowed to

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Speaker 1: talk to Congress. Something went out the window now that

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Speaker 1: it is something that helps the president in supports the

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Speaker 1: president's political agenda. So yeah, it's rank hypocrisy. Mitt Romney

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Speaker 1: made history by being the only Senator to vote to

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Speaker 1: impeach a president of his own party, and today President

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Speaker 1: Trump has set his sights, it seems for Mitt Romney,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder if he'll be ostracized in Washington by

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Speaker 1: the Republicans, even though John McCain when he gave that

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Speaker 1: thumbs down vote on Obamacare, was not ostracized. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that Mitt Romney will be completely ostracized by the

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Speaker 1: party for the most part, in the sense that he's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be expelled from the you know, Republican caucus

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Speaker 1: and the setting. He's not going to be pushed out

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Speaker 1: of the Republican Party in general. He's going to be

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Speaker 1: isolated a little bit in terms of some things. There's

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Speaker 1: going to be unending vitriol from the White House against him.

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna get any assistance from them on any

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Speaker 1: of his projects. The Trump family will almost certainly try

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Speaker 1: to help any primary challenge that might be launched against

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Speaker 1: Romney in the future if he runs for re election

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Speaker 1: in a few years. But Mitch McConnell's not going to

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Speaker 1: do anything that jeopardized that seat in Utah. He needs

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Speaker 1: his majority and that was that's one of the critical seats,

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Speaker 1: and he's not going to run any risk. But this

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Speaker 1: is again, this is what we live with in the

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Speaker 1: era of Trump. In this cult of personality, you do

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Speaker 1: not dissent, you do not question dear leader. You must

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Speaker 1: at all times be loyal, even if he's not loyal

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Speaker 1: to you. And it's a rather distressing way to see

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Speaker 1: the Party of Lincoln go in the sense that they

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Speaker 1: are now just unwilling to ever question this cult of

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Speaker 1: personality that has taken over them. How Speaker Nancy Pelosi,

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Speaker 1: who was one of the subjects of President Trump's ire today,

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Speaker 1: says that she'd done her part to be respectful to him.

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Speaker 1: But now I feel very liberated. I feel that I've

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Speaker 1: extended every possible courtesy. I've shown every level of respect.

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Speaker 1: I say to my members all the time, there's no

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Speaker 1: such thing as an eternal animosity. I've been talking to

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Speaker 1: Brad Moss about the President's reaction to his acquittal. So, Brad,

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Speaker 1: the question is whether some of the senators in those

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Speaker 1: swing states will be punished at the ballot box for

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Speaker 1: voting to acquit Trump or whether by the time November

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Speaker 1: comes it will all be forgotten. So, assuming there's nothing

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Speaker 1: more to come in this particular contact between now and November,

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Speaker 1: I think Susan Collins is in serious trouble. I think

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Speaker 1: Corey Gardner is in serious trouble, and I think Tom

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Speaker 1: Tillis in North Carolina isn't serious trouble now. To be sure,

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Speaker 1: all three were facing very serious challenges regardless, and I

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Speaker 1: think for part of for part of the reason they

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Speaker 1: chose to vote the way they did was a political

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Speaker 1: calculation that they would rather risk angering you know, independence

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Speaker 1: and Democrats who likely we're never going to vote for

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Speaker 1: them anyways, and keep the loyalty of the president, keep

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Speaker 1: the President's support, which they'll need to secure reelection. Uh,

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Speaker 1: then going out on a lamb, voting to convict failing,

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Speaker 1: and then having to deal with an angry you know,

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Speaker 1: Republican base and an angry White House. So for them,

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Speaker 1: their only hope was to basically be political opportunists, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to claim that, oh, we hope he'll learn from this,

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Speaker 1: but very much be political opportunists and hold onto power.

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Speaker 1: Simply by you know, covering their eyes and covering their

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Speaker 1: ears and hoping they don't hear anything or see anything.

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Speaker 1: What was surprising to me, in addition to Mitt Romney's vote,

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Speaker 1: what was surprising to me was that the Democratic senators

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Speaker 1: all voted in favor of convicting Trump. And I mean

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Speaker 1: there seemed to be some that are taking a risk

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Speaker 1: by doing that. Yeah, And so the ones who are

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Speaker 1: here probably thinking of so. One would obviously be um

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Speaker 1: Mansion out in West Virginia, which is obviously now become

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Speaker 1: a very deeply read state. Um at least, you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of how they vote for president that ironically

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Speaker 1: has a significant base of registered Democrats, but Democrats who

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Speaker 1: usually tend to actually vote for Republican presidential candidates. Um

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Speaker 1: Mansion is rather popular out there. Presumably if he chooses

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Speaker 1: to run again, this will be a problem for him,

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Speaker 1: but it's unclear that it would be one that would

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Speaker 1: truly stop him from winning. He has his own base

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Speaker 1: of popularity out there long before Donald Trump had presumably

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Speaker 1: will still have it now in the aftermatho Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: The other one, the other senator who might be in trouble,

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Speaker 1: is going to be Um Senator Cinema out in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: But with one thing she has going for her is

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Speaker 1: that the demographics of Arizona have been changing. We saw

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Speaker 1: that with how the you know, her recent election, you know,

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Speaker 1: a Democrat winning in Arizona and not been something that

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Speaker 1: had happened a long time. You've been seeing those demographics change.

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Speaker 1: And so part of her calculation, no doubt, from a

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Speaker 1: political context, was if I don't vote to convict, do

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Speaker 1: I depress my own base and cause problems for myself

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Speaker 1: including a possible primary challenge when I'm up for re elections.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure that was part of it. But in

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Speaker 1: the end, you would hope for most of these senators

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Speaker 1: on both sides of the you would hope that they

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Speaker 1: took their oaths seriously and that they were trying to

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Speaker 1: render impartial justice. And unfortunately, in the context of some

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Speaker 1: of these senators, they chose to take what I would

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Speaker 1: view as the political route to save themselves in November

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Speaker 1: rather than actually render an impartial verdict. And now attention

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Speaker 1: turns back to the House to see whether or not

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Speaker 1: some of the chairs of House committees are going to

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Speaker 1: restart their investigations into President Trump and one of the

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Speaker 1: big things on the line is of course, whether or

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Speaker 1: not the House Judiciary Chair will subpoena John Bolton to testify,

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Speaker 1: and then whether or not Bolton will comply if subpoenaed.

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Speaker 1: So Bolton is obviously, you know, the big shiny object.

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Speaker 1: His book is supposed to come out in March. We're

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Speaker 1: still waiting to see if that's actually going to happen.

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Speaker 1: There's been no word yet on the final review Review

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Speaker 1: approval um through the National Security Council that has to

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Speaker 1: sign off on whether or not this classfied information in

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Speaker 1: his book. Um, but yeah, I think you you can

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Speaker 1: expect to some extent there's going to be a slew

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Speaker 1: of remaining on investigations that will continue on to sort

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Speaker 1: of flesh out the record, not the purpose of an

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Speaker 1: additional impeachment, but soon Sure the public has everything it

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Speaker 1: needs in the run up to November, and I expect

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Speaker 1: that there'll be a supplemental report coming out of various

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Speaker 1: House chairs um in the run up to November of

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Speaker 1: here's the additional information that we were not able to

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Speaker 1: get in time for the impeachment investigation and for the

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Speaker 1: Senate trial. That the White House did everything it could

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Speaker 1: to keep from you. Here's what we've been able to

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Speaker 1: collect there. If your ongoing investigations, you the American voter,

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Speaker 1: you render your own decision whether or not this matters

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Speaker 1: to you. You get to make that ultimate call. And

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Speaker 1: what's your take on whether or not Bolton will testify?

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Speaker 1: If so, that as six to four thousand questions, So

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Speaker 1: you would assume that he will because he said publicly

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Speaker 1: he would. But that was the context of a Senate trial. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's no longer an issue. The Senate trial is over.

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Speaker 1: The president was acquitted. So does does John bolt do

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Speaker 1: John Gon Bolton back down now as he say, well,

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Speaker 1: there's no reason, no longer reason for me to come testify.

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Speaker 1: You can buy my book and read it there. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure he might make that argument. He might rely on

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Speaker 1: some of the defenses he otherwise was going to swear

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Speaker 1: off in the Senate trial. Will have to wait and see,

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Speaker 1: as Donald Trump would say, to find out what John

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Speaker 1: Bolton actually does. If a subpoena is issue, You've a

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Speaker 1: litigated cases I believe where there were questions from the

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Speaker 1: National Security Agency about a book being published. So in

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Speaker 1: this case, is there anything Bolton can do to speed

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Speaker 1: up the process. If he's not getting back from the

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Speaker 1: n s A. What he needs to in order to

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Speaker 1: make changes to the book and to get it moving.

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Speaker 1: Is there anything he can do, So what he's able

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Speaker 1: to do right now, he's able to file lawsuit if

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Speaker 1: you wanted to um under the First Amendment, claiming undue delay,

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Speaker 1: claiming that the review process has been unduly delayed and

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Speaker 1: it's depriving him of the ability to publish unclassified information

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Speaker 1: that is protected by the First Amendment. And to be clear,

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Speaker 1: the case law driving from a Supreme Court case in

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Speaker 1: the eighties make very clear the government may not censor

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Speaker 1: the speech of former government employees in terms of unclassified information.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it was executive privilege issues any

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Speaker 1: of that. The only thing the government can censor in

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Speaker 1: these books of former employees is properly classified information, and

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Speaker 1: the employees have the ability to sue to challenge that,

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Speaker 1: but they have to go through this process and if

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Speaker 1: the government is, you know, drawing it out, there is

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Speaker 1: a means to simply bring the suit early claim undue delayed,

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Speaker 1: which usually just gets the government to finally finish up

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Speaker 1: their decision process, at which point the person can choose

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Speaker 1: whether or not they want to continue with the challenge

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Speaker 1: or if they're satisfied with what they got out of

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Speaker 1: the review. Thanks for being on Bloomberg Law Brad, that's

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Speaker 1: Brad Mall's apartment marks A. I'm June Grosso and this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg