1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question, you know, 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: having a podcast on happiness, teaching a whole classed Ivy 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: League students, generation after generation. Yeah, I mean, I think 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: that we get happiness wrong. Happiness, that feeling of joy 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: or contentment that we all seem to crave can also 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: seem totally unattainable in this day and age. In fact, 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: maybe we need to replace the word happiness altogether. True 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: flourishing is taking on challenges, embracing failure, you know, navigating 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: these negative emotions that might be normative. And so I think, 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, it would be better to have a different word, 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: But in some ways we're stuck with happiness. Doctor Laurie 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: Santos is a cognitive scientist who's been studying happiness in 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: the lab as well as through the class she teaches 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: at Yale. But she's the first to admit even she 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: isn't happy all the time. Some of us are kind 16 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: of genetically lucky to have a little bit of a 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: predisposition and happiness. I'm probably the opposite. I think I 18 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: was born on a rainy like loudry mixed kind of day. 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: So what do we need to understand about happiness, Why 20 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: is it so difficult to come by? And why is 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: true happiness such freaking hard work. By the way, if 22 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown 23 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: Up Call by going to Katiecurrek dot com. Are you 26 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: or a loved one battling cancer? I'm passionate about raising 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: awareness about the importance of early detection and for patients 28 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: and their caregivers to fully understand all available treatment options, 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: especially those that have meaningful impact to extending survival and 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: improving quality of life. You know, too often the length 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: of treatment, recovery period, and debilitating side effects can be 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: difficult to cope with. Our partners at view Ray have 33 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: reinvented cancer treatment with Meridian MRI guided radiation therapy for 34 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: those who qualify. Around eighty percent of patients complete treatment 35 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: and as few as five sessions, often with little or 36 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: no side effects. Viewray is working to educate patients about 37 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: this life changing cancer treatment and where patients can find 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: a Meridian treatment center. Innovation like Meridian gives me hope 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: for the millions of people around the world currently battling cancer. 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: So talk to your doctor. To find hospitals where Meridian 41 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: is available, visit viewray dot com. Laurie Santos, come on down. 42 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be talking to you. Ditto, Ditto. 43 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: Let's start with the basics. What exactly is happiness? We 44 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: do a very long time answering that, kat So. Social 45 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: scientists tend to think of happiness as being happy in 46 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: your life and being happy with your life. So being 47 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: happy in your life is like you've just got lots 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: of positive emotions. There's like joy and smiling and laughter 49 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to kind of negative emotions like sadness, anger 50 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: and saying. It's not saying you have no negative emotions, 51 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: it's just that the ratio is pretty good. That's being 52 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: happy in your life. But being happy with your life 53 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: is how you think about your life. Is the answer 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: to your question, like all things considered, how satisfied are 55 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: you with your life? And if you say yes, then 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. And I love this definition because you know, 57 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: we all know that there are times that those two 58 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: things dissociate, right that you know you're doing something that's 59 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: making you incredibly satisfied with your life. You know, maybe 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: you have a new baby or a new job, but 61 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: it's hard, you know, in your life there's a lot 62 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 1: of stress and things like that. And I think we've 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: all met people, you especially being you know, with the 64 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: rich and famous folks where no no in their life, 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: like you know, you're flying first class and great food, 66 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: but with your life there's a real sense of emptiness 67 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: and a lack of meaning. And so we have these 68 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: misconceptions when it comes to the things that make guess happy. 69 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Are we using the wrong word? Should it be contentment? 70 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: Should it be fulfillment? I think the Greeks, you know, 71 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: and the ancients as usual, had it right. You know, 72 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: they talked about you diamondia flourishing, and that I think 73 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: would be a better word, because to have true flourishing, 74 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: it's not like you're happy all the time. Like true 75 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: flourishing isn't toxic positivity where you're like smiling like some 76 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: terrible yellow emojing where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm 77 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: happy all the time. And so what I try to 78 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: do is to explain to folks that true happiness allows 79 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: for the normal kinds of spots where you're not going 80 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: to feel great, like, that's typical, that's normal, that's what 81 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: you need for a good, ultimately happy life. But people 82 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 1: probably should think about the word flourishing or fulfillment, contentment. 83 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: It just seems much more stable. Happiness seems like at 84 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: the high end of the emotional scale, right, and that's 85 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: unattainable because nobody's happy all the time. Yeah. My colleague 86 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: Dan Gilbert, professor at Harvard, who comes a lot on 87 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: my podcast, Dan's vond of saying that you know, happily 88 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 1: ever after only exists if you have like three minutes 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: left to live, like, it's just not a destination. And 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: I think that's another thing we get wrong. We think 91 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: I'm going to do something and get there. You know, 92 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: I'll get married and I will be happy. Or I'll 93 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: get this new raise and I will be happy. Or 94 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, my college students, I'll get into the perfect 95 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: medical school or get the perfect rates and I will 96 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: be happy. And that's just not how it works. My 97 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: late husband used to say that I was born on 98 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: a sunny day, which I thought was such a nice compliment, 99 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: and it made me wonder if some people are hardwired 100 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: for happiness. Is there a happiness set point that varies 101 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: from person to person, from biology to biology. Yeah, there's 102 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: some evidence that that might be at least partly the case. 103 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: And the evidence comes from these studies on what's called heritability. Right, 104 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: what is it called heritability? It's just not irritability irritability. Heritability, 105 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: which is this like big word of saying, you know, 106 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: how much of the variance that we see in the population. 107 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: You know, some people are happy, not so happy. How 108 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: much of that is do to your biology? How much 109 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: of that is due to kind of how you grow up? Right? 110 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: And the way we test heritability is to look at twins. Right, 111 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: Some twins are identical. That means they're genetically exactly the same, 112 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: the same way, raise the same way. Right. Some are fraternal, 113 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: which means they're genetically different, Like they're just as similar 114 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: as regular brothers and sisters. And so if happiness is 115 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: really built in, then identical twins should be much more 116 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: similar in their happiness level than regular brothers and sisters. 117 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: Tons of studies have looked at this, and what you 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: find is that's true, but a little bit. Heritability estimates 119 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: are at about thirty percent, and that's like, you know, 120 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: it's there, but scientifically speaking, it's kind of small. What 121 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: does that mean? It means there's something to be said for, 122 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, being born on a sunny day. Some of 123 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: us are kind of genetically lucky to have a little 124 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: bit of a predisposition to happiness, but it's not as 125 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: much as we, I think assume. So it sounds like 126 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: nurture is more important than nature when it comes to happiness. 127 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, and I think it's important not to 128 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: discount nature, right. There are some people who have a 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: harder than others because they've got to put more work in, 130 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: but everybody can put the right work in to change things. Well, 131 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you what sets you up for happiness? 132 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: I mean, is it a secure home, life, loving parents, 133 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: financial security, positive affirmation, success, and however you define it. 134 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm really lucky, honestly, Laurie, in all 135 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: those categories. I think of people who have parents who 136 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: didn't give them unconditional love and how that really kind 137 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: of reverberates throughout their lives. Yeah, I mean, obviously those 138 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: things have an impact, right. You know, trauma, which is 139 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: the kind of thing you're talking about right where parents, 140 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, your abusive parents or with whole scene or 141 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: exactly or you know, they could even be affluent, you know, 142 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: successful parents, just very distant or really harsh, right, I 143 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: mean we all kind of grow up with different levels 144 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: of that, and you can look at levels are pretty extreme, 145 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: and scientists do that, right. This is a lot of 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: the work on trauma and what's often called post traumatic 147 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: stress disorder. You many of us have heard about that, right, 148 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: And it comes from the fact that when you experience 149 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: trauma sometimes that can have a longstanding effect. But even 150 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: though you know post traumatic stress disorder PTSD gets a 151 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: lot of airtime, scientists have also looked at what you 152 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: might consider the opposite, which is called post traumatic growth. Right, 153 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: you go through an awful, terrible incident that you never 154 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: would have wished on yourself or anyone else, and some 155 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: good comes from that. You feel like you come out stronger, 156 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: you feel like you come out more resilient, you feel 157 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: like you come out more socially connected to the people 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: you really care about. And this is what's called post 159 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: traumatic growth. And I'm kind of curious. I mean, you know, 160 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: you and I are talking after you've been so helpfully 161 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: public about your breast cancer diagnosis. That could be a 162 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: trauma that leads to PTSD. You know, individuals who experience 163 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: cancer diagnosis and have to go through the process, you know, 164 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: terrible and awfully traumatic, but you kind of resonate with that, 165 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: this idea of the post traumatic growth a bit. I mean, 166 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: I think because I've had so much experience witnessing cancer 167 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: much more severely in both my late husband and my 168 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: sister who also passed away, and I became so knowledgeable 169 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: about cancer. I have a very really healthy and solid 170 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: understanding about my particular situation, and instead of being traumatized, 171 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: it actually increased my gratitude because I know, unlike them, 172 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: both my husband and sister were diagnosed with stage four cancer. 173 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: Mine was discovered early, when it's not only treatable but curable, 174 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: and so if anything, it wasn't traumatic. It was actually 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: weirdly life affirming. It was a death sentence for my 176 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: husband and my sister when they were diagnosed, and the 177 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: fact that it was twenty twenty two, the fact that 178 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: science has really progressed, I felt grateful. And so this 179 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: is what we hear a lot, both with kind of 180 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: diagnoses like yours, but even cases where individuals find out 181 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: they have a terminal situation or things that you couldn't 182 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: even imagine. You're There are accounts of parents who've lost 183 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: young children who obviously, you know, the most traumatic thing 184 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: any parent could imagine. You know, obviously they're not happy 185 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: about it, they wouldn't wish it again, but they'll say 186 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: on mass more good things came of it than I expected, right, 187 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: And that is a profound thing about human psychology and 188 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: human nature. The worst thing possible that we could ever 189 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: imagine happens, and we say there are parts of this 190 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: at least that I'm grateful for, or there's parts of 191 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: this that I wouldn't change. I've grown from this. This 192 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest mistakes that we make about happiness. 193 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: We think it's only our circumstances. If things go well, 194 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: I'll be great, and God forbid things go badly. But 195 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: in practice, when these things actually happen to people were 196 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: much more resilient, and we often take much more meaning 197 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: and purpose from those events than we often expect. I 198 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: think my resilience you mentioned going public, just as I 199 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: try to spread awareness and educate people about calling cancer 200 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: prevention and encourage them to get colonoscopies, and got one 201 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: on television myself, I knew that by being a public 202 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: figure and talking about it, I have the potential to 203 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: actually save lives. And so for me translating it into 204 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: I don't mean to sound cheesy, but some form of service, 205 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: it actually is very grounding and satisfying and fulfilling for me. 206 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: And that's what I think. Sometimes we get wrong about happiness. 207 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: I think resilious it's finding strength with them. So sometimes 208 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: we are in a situation that we're unprepared for and 209 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: you find yourself digging deeper into something that you didn't 210 00:11:54,360 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: even know you possessed more after the break. I'm an 211 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: artist in New York City, so when I'm creating or discovering, 212 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: that's where I find my happiness usually most of the time. 213 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: So happiness, you can try and find it, you can 214 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: try to inspire it. I also think you got to 215 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: give energy to get energy, So do that you can 216 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: find a lot of happiness. We're back with Lorie Santos. 217 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: All this focus on quote unquote self care, which I 218 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: think to a certain extent, we need to focus and 219 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: take care of ourselves. And the oxygen mask and all 220 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: that jazz. On the other hand, it seems like we 221 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: have become so self focused that we're missing the point 222 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: about serving others, being kind to others. Those things are 223 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: proven to increase your happiness, right, Lorie. Yeah, I mean 224 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: one of the biggest cross cultural universals in happiness science 225 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: right now is that doing nice things for other people 226 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: makes you happier. If you look at people who are 227 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: controlled for the level of income they have, people who 228 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: donate more of their money to charity are happier. People 229 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: who just tend to just be more self focused are 230 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: less happy than the people who are out there doing 231 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: stuff for other people. And even if you force people 232 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: to do nice stuff for others, they wind up feeling happier. 233 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: And do you think this whole emphasis on self care 234 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: and wellness has had the adverse effect in some ways? 235 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,599 Speaker 1: Have you looked at that? Yeah? Definitely. It's a relatively 236 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: new phenomenon, isn't it. I mean I feel like sort 237 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: of the self care wellness industry has really blossomed and 238 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: just the last five years. Yeah, I think it's problematic 239 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: in two ways. Again, One is this focus on the self, right, 240 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: you know, me, me me, when again, all the data 241 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: suggest that doing for others would be better. I think 242 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: another problem is it like reflects this notion that we 243 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: have that like our circumstances matter for happiness. Right, if 244 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: I could just like have it be you know, bubble 245 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: bats and rainbows and first class flights, then my life 246 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: would be great. And it's really missing out on the 247 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: things that can actually matter for our happiness. Were in 248 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: some ways even just a simple act of spending our money, 249 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 1: We're doing it wrong. Spending on things that we think 250 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: are going to make us feel good, I think aren't 251 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: going to bring us joy, and they might not bring 252 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: us the joy we think. We're in New York City, 253 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: the epicenter of type A strivers, right, and I think 254 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: if there's one thing that has hurt my happiness quotient, 255 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: if you will, is always striving, because once you get something, 256 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, what am I going to do next? 257 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: Where am I going to go? How am I going 258 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: to achieve something? More? Talk about how these type A 259 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of super driven people, because I'm transitioning to you 260 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: your Yale class where you at them in droves, how 261 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: that impacts your happiness. I mean, it's sometimes funny to 262 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: people when they hear I teach this class unhappiness to 263 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: Yale students, because the lay person's assumption is like Yale 264 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: students haven't made they're nineteen, you know, many of them 265 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: are wealthy or at least well connect. Did yet you 266 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: know one fourth of them decided to take a class 267 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: on happiness. What year did you start teaching it? First? 268 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, and it was It became the largest 269 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: class ever in Yale's history, and one quarter of the 270 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: students enrolled, right, And I ken that tells you that 271 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: these you know type A, you know, very driven Yale 272 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: students are voting with their feet. They've especially at Yale, 273 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: they've gotten everything they've wanted. You know, probably since these 274 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: kids were twelve years old, they dreamed of getting into 275 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: an Ivy League school, and now they're there and it's 276 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: still not doing what they expect, which only proves like 277 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: all these things that we talked about are not necessarily 278 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: the key. What's missing for them? Yeah, I mean it's 279 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: often the things that they are having an opportunity cost 280 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: on because they're so driven at their academics. It's simple 281 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: things like sleep and taking care of their physical health. 282 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: It's often social connection. Right. These are students who are 283 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: working on homework into the night. They're not getting the 284 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: same social connection that you expect, And honestly, it's just 285 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: having this kind of mistaken idea that more and more 286 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: and more is going to be good. Right. It's not 287 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: stopic to kind of you smell the roses and reflect 288 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: on the accomplishments you've gotten, because they're thinking about what 289 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: grades are going to make, and how are they going 290 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: to get into a good law school, and how are 291 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: they going to get that job at Goldman Sachs or 292 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, all those things that I would imagine detract 293 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: from just being present and enjoying the moment exactly. There's 294 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: work on what's known as journey mindset, right, which is 295 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: this idea that you're not kind of going for the 296 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: next thing, you're not looking at what you're arriving towards. 297 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: The goal is not then it's not law school or 298 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: Goldman Sacks, we're even getting into Yale. It's kind of 299 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: what you're going to learn and get along the way. 300 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: It's really being present across that, and I think that 301 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: we've raised, honestly, not just my Yale students, but a 302 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: generation of young people that have dropped the journey mindset right. 303 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: They are careerists from as early as we can detect, 304 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: and that means that they're just going to jump to 305 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: the next accolade. How can we tamp down this tremendous 306 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: pressure that's really detracting from being a happy, whole person. 307 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: You imagine if Yale and Harvard and Stafford, all big 308 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: schools got together, like a nuclear d escalation, and we 309 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: all said, you know what, here the minimum standards you 310 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: need to be a good Yale student. Once you meet 311 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: this minimum standard, you go into a lottery and you'll 312 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: might get in or you might not. I think this 313 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: would be first of all, I think you'd be accurate, 314 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: But I think it would also allow students to see that, like, 315 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to keep hustling, and I 316 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: think the hustle starts earlier and earlier. I think you 317 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: know what you said is correct. I think parents really 318 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: have a role to kind of scale this back. And 319 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: I think you know, it can sometimes be really tough 320 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: for parents because they obviously want what's best for their kids. 321 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: You know, if there's a kind of accolade out there 322 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: that your child doesn't have, it so easy to kind 323 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: of want them to strive for it. I think working 324 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: with your kids to kind of back them up, talk 325 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: to them about what they're learning along the journey, make 326 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: it clear that you're going to love them no matter what, 327 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: and don't push them just because you want that Yale 328 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: sticker on the back of your car. You can buy 329 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,920 Speaker 1: one even if your kid doesn't go to Yale. Dirty. So, 330 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious what you heard from your students. You talked 331 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: to so many of these kids. I mean, you had 332 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: a whole case study every semester. What did they talk 333 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: about and why were they taking your class? There's lots 334 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: of evidence that this generation, and this is true at 335 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: Yell too, is just facing the biggest mental health crisis 336 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: that we've seen in the history of the human species. Like, 337 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: right now, there's race of depression nationally at colleges are 338 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: at levels like forty percent of students report being too 339 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: depressed to function most days. Over sixty percent say they're 340 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly anxious. More than one in ten has seriously considered suicide. 341 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: So if you're looking at a group of ten college students, 342 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: one of them might be contemplating taking their own life, right, Like, 343 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: that's really how bad the mental health situation has gone 344 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: on campus. But that doesn't even tell you what you're 345 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: just seeing in the low grade kind of stress and 346 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: disappointment these students are facing. You know, I'll run into 347 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: a student in the courtyard and be like, hey, how's 348 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: it going, And they'd be like, oh, if I could 349 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: only get to mid terms or if I could only 350 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: fast forward to the summer to get out of this. 351 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: And I would have kind of two reactions to that 352 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: of like what college is so precious since so short, 353 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: Like how can you be fast forwarding this? But then 354 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: my other reactions like oh, yeah, we could only get 355 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: to mid terms, you know. So I was like realizing like, wow, 356 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, these are misconceptions that I was having too. 357 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: You know, even though it was so acute in my 358 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: students that kind of overwhelm and stress they were facing, 359 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: I kind of saw it in myself too. You know. 360 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 1: I'm worried that we weren't being good mentors for them 361 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: to help them out of this. You know. I guess 362 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: maybe because I'm I'm a big fan of self flagellation, 363 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: but I do wonder if people of my generation parents 364 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: fucked up well it's hay, you know, yeah, yeah, blah blah, 365 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: And I wonder I wonder if my generation style of 366 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: parenting has contributed to this, because you know that everybody 367 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: gets a trophy. You have to fix things for your kids. 368 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: You can't have them suffer because it's too painful for you. 369 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: You can't have them be disappointed. And are the chickens 370 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: coming home to roost? I think so, although I think 371 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: there's also lots of evidence that, you know, society, a 372 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: lot of these structures changed, right. You know, the last 373 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: twenty years were also the time when the news was 374 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: talking a lot about stranger danger. You know, you wouldn't 375 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: be seen as a good parent unless you were trying 376 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: to protect your children. Again, I think institutions like mine, 377 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, like focused on meritocracy in a way that's great. 378 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: You know, anyone can get into Yale now, anyone can 379 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: get into you. Oh why aren't you giving your child 380 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 1: the resources they need to do that? And I think 381 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: that that focus on higher education in these next steps 382 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: made it so that failure seemed scary. But I think 383 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: that that did mean that the kids today are growing 384 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: up with different kinds of norms when it comes to failures, 385 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: different kinds of norms when it comes to parental involvement. 386 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: Different kinds of norms when it comes to what they're 387 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: expected to know, just at different ages. We have college 388 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: students who have never used an alarm clock. Their parents 389 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: are their alarm clock. They call, you know, to make 390 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: sure their child gets up in the morning, you know, 391 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: at nineteen twenty one years old. Lily from New York. 392 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: I'm a teacher. I think the pandemic really affected kids negatively, 393 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: and they're having a really hard time figuring out how 394 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: to socialize in the way that we did when we 395 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: were kids, when life was quote unquote normal. So I 396 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: think the socializing, the lack of social skills is we're 397 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: finding kids like really inverting and struggling to reach out 398 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: to people. We'll be right back. There's things within your 399 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 1: control and there's things outside, and focus on those things 400 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: that are within your control and you'll do better and 401 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: we're back. You have just started an online course that's 402 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: free to teenagers. It's called the Science of Well Being. 403 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: What prompted you to do that, Laurie, Well, it had 404 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: done this class, you know, live on Yale's campus, and 405 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: we got tons and tons of press for it. But 406 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the emails I was getting from parents 407 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: was saying, you know, could you make this available? Was 408 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: there any way I could see the syllabus. I want 409 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: my daughter who's in middle school, I want my son 410 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: who's any school to get this content. And it made 411 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: me realize that, you know, a lot of the skills 412 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: I was teaching Yale students. We want kids who are 413 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: younger than that to learn these things. So is it 414 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: different teaching teens than it is teaching college students. Yeah, 415 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: yes and no. Yes in the sense that you know, 416 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: teens face different kinds of contexts where these kinds of 417 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: principles and these misconceptions come up. Right, They're not worried 418 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: about salary and you know, getting married. They're worried about, 419 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, getting good grades and thinking about colleges and 420 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: navigating how they're portrayed on social media rights. In some ways, 421 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: there are lots of similar stressors, but they kind of 422 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: play out in different ways. And so the new class 423 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: really uses the same kind of science concepts. Those things 424 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 1: are the same, but we're kind of talking about them 425 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: in a context that teens can really relate to them. 426 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: You know, So if we're talking about your circumstances don't matter. 427 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: We're not using examples of like getting promotions at work. 428 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: We're using examples of like, you know, the grade that 429 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: you got on your homework lass Thursday. We're sort of 430 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: talking about the kinds of things that are on teens minds. 431 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: Are there some basic skills that you're really trying to 432 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: give both the kids in college and also teenagers. One 433 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: of the great things that I've seen with the Yale 434 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: students in so far, with the teens who have taken 435 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: the classes, they want an evidence based approach. They don't 436 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: want to hear a bunch of platitudes about what they 437 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: should do. They like, what does the science say, because 438 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: that's great. But then we just walk through just really 439 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: simple behavior thought pattern changes that you can engage with 440 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: when a stressor comes up. You know, so if you're 441 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: feeling stressed, what are good behaviors? You know, maybe spending 442 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: more time on TikTok not as good the evidence suggests, 443 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: but if you can move your body a little bit more, 444 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: if you can contact a friend, if you take a sleep, 445 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 1: maybe take a walk, or even you know, think about 446 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: what you could do for someone else, you know, getting 447 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: back to this idea of being other oriented. These behaviors 448 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: that you could use in the moment to fix this. 449 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: We also spend a lot of time on changing your 450 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: thought patterns. I think we think we are our thoughts, 451 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: like you know, they just pop up and that's reality. 452 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: But there's so much evidence to say, no, that's just 453 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: the voice in our head, and there are simple techniques 454 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: we can use to change our thought patterns. You know. 455 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: A big one for teenagers is trying to sort of 456 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: shut off that self critic in your head. You know that, Yeah, 457 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: why started out for teenagers? I mean I do negative 458 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: self talk all the time, and some of my friends 459 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: here at Katie Kirk Media say, you know you are 460 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: what you say, and that actually is scientifically proven right totally. 461 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much evidence that what you're saying 462 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: to yourself is affecting how you perform. For example, if 463 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,880 Speaker 1: you're really self critical, it's very easy to procrastinate because 464 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: you're screaming yourself. You can have set up this fear 465 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: in your own mind. There's also lots of evidence at 466 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: what you say it to yourself can affect your physiology. 467 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: The best advice is to talk to yourself like you 468 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: would a friend. If your best friend was really screwing up, 469 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: you wouldn't be like, oh, it's fine. You know, it's great, 470 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,239 Speaker 1: You're wonderful, everybody loves you. You'd be like, you know, 471 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: we need to deal with this, like what's going on? 472 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: Like I love you and I really care about you. 473 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: And you wouldn't be like you suck, like why are 474 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: you wouldn't scream at your best friend and be great 475 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: him or her, but you would, you know, call a 476 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: spade a spade and say, hey, we got we gotta 477 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: deal with this. This isn't going well, And you would 478 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: be curious. You'd be like, what's going on? Like why 479 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: are you doing this? Like how can we fix this? 480 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: You'd be you'd be gentle, you'd be proactive, you'd be 481 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: problem solving oriented. But you wouldn't scream. You wouldn't be mean. 482 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: And that's the kind of voice we're trying to kind 483 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: of cultivate. But the evidence suggests that these practices really work. 484 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: So what can we do with social media? I means 485 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: the genie out of the bottle. How are you talking 486 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: to teens and to ladies like me about kind of 487 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: monitoring it and moderating it? Yeah, well, in some sense, 488 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: the genie is out of the bottle, right, We're not 489 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: ever going to go back to, you know, the way 490 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: we were, you know, when you and I were in college. 491 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: We're always going to have probably these devices in our 492 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: pockets that have the temptation of comparison, that have these 493 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: technologies available. I think what we can do, though, is 494 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: that we can be a little bit more mindful about 495 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: how these things are making us feel. And I think 496 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: that that's important, right, because we don't want to deny 497 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: the benefits of these things. One of the strategies I 498 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: teach my students comes from the journalist Catherine Price, who 499 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: is this lovely book called How to Break Up with 500 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: Your Phone, which she argues, you don't have to break 501 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: up your phone, but like couples, counseling probably required, you know, 502 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: for the relationship. And she has this acronym that she 503 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: uses called WWW to help you be more mindful. It 504 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: stands for what for, why now? And what else? And 505 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: so she argues, whenever you find your phone in your hand, 506 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: you should think, oh, www, like what for? Was was 507 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: there a purpose? Like I was checking my email or 508 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: I was going to text a friend? You know, maybe 509 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: it's just my addictive go to right? Why now? Right? 510 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: What was the trigger. You know, maybe again you had 511 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: something to do, but maybe it was I was feeling anxious, 512 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: or I was feeling bored, or you know, for my students, 513 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: often it's I was feeling a little bit scared about 514 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: engaging in real life social connection talking to someone in 515 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: the dining hall, so I just, you know, picked up 516 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: my phone. But the biggest one I think is what else, right? 517 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: What's the opportunity cost? What else could you be doing? 518 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: Could you be just like taking a deep breath, talking 519 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: to a friend, sleeping right? What are you not doing 520 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: because you're on your phone? And what are you missing? 521 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: You know? Sometimes if I land in a new city, 522 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: I am going to the hotel, and I realized I 523 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: didn't even look around at this new place and take 524 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: in being in a totally different environment because I've had 525 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: my face and my phone, and I think this is 526 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: so dumb. Why am I doing this? It is such 527 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: a default, though, Lorie, you know now, yeah, I think 528 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: it's a default. And often the thing we're missing is 529 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: other people. That's right, because it's distracting. It's very presence 530 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: is distracting. It also prevents you to engage in deep 531 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: thinking because it's interrupting you all the time, right, and 532 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: it makes sense, right because our brains aren't stupid, like 533 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: they know on the other end of this device, you know, imagine, 534 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, we're having this lovely conversation here and it's 535 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: very fun. But imagine if to the conversation I brought 536 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: this big wheelbarrow, and in the wheelbarrow I had like 537 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: my photo album since like nineteen ninety two and print 538 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 1: outs of everything every politician or you know, Kardashian has said. 539 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: And the last week there was like cat video is imporn, 540 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: just like this huge pile of stuff in the wheelbar 541 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: and sort of food that you could learn to make. Like, 542 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: our brain isn't stupid. It knows that all that stuff 543 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: is right next to you. But it's having a huge 544 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: effect on our attention and our performance and our social connection. 545 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: Let's talk about global happiness because I mean, look what 546 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: you started, laurining. Now there then these worldwide surveys about happiness, 547 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: and what are we learning about those? I think so 548 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: many interesting things. I mean, first, I think we're learning 549 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: that just having a metric is powerful. Right. This is 550 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: the World Happiness survey that goes around globally and tries 551 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: to measure happiness using the sort of standard survey tools 552 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: that we have, and then they rank countries. What we've 553 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: learned from the metrics so far, though, is that there 554 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: are differences. There are countries that since this survey has 555 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: been out there have standardly been around the top, places 556 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: like Denmark, Norway, you know, these Scandinavian countries. And there 557 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: are otherwise very wealthy countries like the US that have 558 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: been surprisingly low on the list, like sixteenth. Yeah, not 559 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: at the bottom, but like not as high as we 560 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: would expect given that, you know, the pursuit of happiness 561 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: is like literally in our Declaration of Independence. And I 562 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: think that can be powerful because we can start to 563 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: ask questions about like, Okay, what are those nations that 564 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: are doing well doing well? And what are we missing 565 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: out on? And have you learned anything? I mean, is 566 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: it sort of quality of life? Is it providing you know, 567 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: parental leave and accessible childcare, things that reduce stressors for people? 568 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: It's all of those things. I mean, I think it's 569 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: it's actually having access to you know, those sorts of 570 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: things that we know mean for a good life. And 571 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: so I think what these countries do well is that 572 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: they build things into the structure of how they live 573 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: their lives that make it easier to get things like 574 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: social connection, presence, exercise, and so on, and what you 575 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: have is a lot more equality. Surprisingly, COVID did not 576 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: decrease the happiness metric in many of these countries, which 577 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: says a lot about our resilience. And in fact, I 578 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: think the pandemic in some ways was a reset for us. 579 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: I think so. I think there was a little bit 580 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: of this idea of post at at growth that we 581 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: talked about before right where you know. It caused us 582 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,239 Speaker 1: to socially connect more. It caused us to recognize our 583 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: own resilience. It's sort of brought back our gratitude for 584 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: simple things. I think it also really taught us to 585 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: reevaluate what we were doing with our lives. I think 586 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: many people during the pandemic thought a little bit more 587 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: critically about the hustle culture that they might have been 588 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: engaged in, about what it was for. We saw that 589 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: there was a path when we could work at home 590 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: and spend more time with our families, and I think 591 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: that's what's leading to this so called great resignation, things 592 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: like quiet quitting. Right now, I think people are reevaluating 593 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: their relationship with work and are maybe considering some kind 594 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: of patterns that might be healthier. I think many people 595 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: are starting to realize that they're frantically climbing up this 596 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: ladder that they might not even want to be on 597 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: in the first place, and they're burning out before they 598 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: even graduate from college. And it's even affecting college professors 599 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: like you, because you took a sabbatical because you were 600 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: afraid you were going to totally burn yourself out. So 601 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: did taking a step back. I know you're still working, 602 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: but getting a change of scenery, etc. Didn't make you happier? 603 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: Oh definitely. I mean, and I'm a nerd, right, so 604 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: I take, you know, like literally data on this. I've 605 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: gone up about a point on a ten point happiness scale. Yeah, 606 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I was really I really started to notice 607 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: in the midst of this pandemic all the classic signs 608 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: of early burnout. Right. I was emotionally exhausted, not just 609 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: physically exhausted. It was just like kind of tired, like 610 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 1: if one more email came like I was gonna, you know, 611 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: just lose it. It It was just like too much. I 612 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: was feeling really cynical, right, my fuse was really short 613 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,719 Speaker 1: with the people around me, especially my students. That that 614 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 1: was the thing that affected me most. That's not normal 615 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 1: for me, and that was really big. But the biggest 616 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: thing I think I experienced during COVID on college campuses 617 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: was the third kind of symptom of burnout, which is 618 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: a sense of personal ineffectiveness, like even if you did 619 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: your job the best that you possibly could, it wouldn't 620 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: be good enough. And I was like, wait, you know, 621 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: I've read the papers. I know where this leads. I 622 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: need to make some changes. Good news is I think, 623 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: you know, for me, at least, the changes have been great. 624 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: Actually made the very difficult decision to step down as 625 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: a head of college on campus in part because I 626 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 1: was realizing that, you know, to do that job as 627 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: well as I wanted to, I just didn't have the 628 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: bandwidth anymore. Have you regained your happiness equilibrium as a 629 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: result of stepping back? And you know, will it change 630 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: when you re enter the Yale campus? Will it change me? Yeah? 631 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: I think I'll make, you know, some big changes. You know, 632 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: stepping down from this role has been a big one. 633 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: You know, I'm already sort of thinking about how I 634 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: can have a better balance with some of the stuff 635 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing. There Again, you have to remember, happiness isn't 636 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: this destination. This is going to keep and taking a constant. 637 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: It's not a constant. Let's close this out with some 638 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: Laurie Santo's happiness tidbits. One is, as you mentioned, it 639 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: takes work. So what does that mean, Like if you 640 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: were saying, Katie, if you want to be happy and happier, 641 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: this is what you should do. What kind of work 642 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: do I have to do? I think the first piece 643 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: of work is just recognizing that your intuitions are off right, 644 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: that you just have these normal things that you think, Oh, 645 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: i've had a bad day, I'll you know, I'll get 646 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: a manicure. Oh you know, this is what I'll do, 647 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: or I'll keep pushing at work. You know, for X, Y, 648 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: and Z, we have these intuitions about the things that 649 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: we should be doing, that we're supposed to be doing. 650 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: I think you have to realize that those intuitions are wrong. Right, 651 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: you have to say the science says do something else 652 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: in really simple domains, right. You know, if you have 653 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: a long day at work, you might have the intuition 654 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: of like, oh, I just want to PLoP down and 655 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: just like glass of wine, which is a depressant, by 656 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: the way, exactly when you know so much. Science suggests 657 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: that if you instead called a friend, went for a walk, 658 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: you know, just try to engage in something that was 659 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: a little bit more challenging of a form of leisure 660 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: than plopping down to watch that. Take a pickle ball 661 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: lesson you know, just like on your phone, do a 662 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: lingo something right like that would be better. Text a 663 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: friend that you're a little bit worried about, right, Become 664 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more other oriented. When we're in these 665 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: moments where we're feeling stressed, we're feeling overwhelmed, we're feeling 666 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: a little sad. They are just simple behaviors we can 667 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: engage in that are going to work better than what 668 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: our natural intuition is. Laurie Santos, this has been so fun. 669 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for spending so much time with me. I 670 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: feel like I just went to therapist and I owe 671 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 1: you whatever a lot. Thank you, Laurie, Thanks so much. 672 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for 673 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: me or want to share your thoughts about how you 674 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: navigate this crazy world, reach out. You can leave a 675 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: short message at six o nine five one two five 676 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: five oh five, or you can send me a DM 677 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next 678 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kurik Media. 679 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Met Katie Kurik and Courtney Litz. 680 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adriana 681 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: Fasio and Catherine Law. Our audio engineer is Matt Russell, 682 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: who also composed our theme music. For more information about 683 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter wake 684 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, 685 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: or visit us at katiecurreic dot com. You can also 686 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. 687 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 688 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Are you 689 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: Battling Cancer? I'm passionate about raising awareness about early detection, 690 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: and it's also critical to understand all treatment options, especially 691 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: their impact on survival and quality of life. View Ray 692 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: has reinvented cancer treatment with Meridian MRI guided radiation therapy. 693 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: We're nearly eighty percent of patients complete treatment and as 694 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,240 Speaker 1: few as five sessions, often with little or no side effects. 695 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: Innovation like Meridian gives hope to millions of people around 696 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: the world. Locate a Meridian atviewray dot com.