1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Up next, out WOUD with Joanno called part of the 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: gig which switch Actually Derek Chauvin has found guilty in 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: the death of George Floyd. A police officer shoots a 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: black teenager who was trying to stab another black teenager, 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: and supporters of the Black Lives Matter movement continue to 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: say America is systematically racist today and we discussed all 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: these topics and more with the Black Lives Matter activists 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: and the former police chief. This is Outlied with Gianna 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: called Welcome back to Outlive with Gianno called Brow I've 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: got an important and timely show for you guys this week. 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: My guests are Zelli Amani and Clarence Cox the third. 12 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: Zelli is a community organizer and Black Lives Matter activists 13 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: who founded the Black Lives Matter Liberation Collective, a group 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: of black students dedicated to transforming higher education. Clarence as 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: the former president of the National Organization of Black Law 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: Enforcement Executives. A veteran of law enforcement for more than 17 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: thirty years, he served as the chief of police for 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Clayton County Public Schools in Georgia. On today's show, Zeali 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: and Clarence and I discussed race and policing in America. 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: Let's go. We know what just happened this past week 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: with verdict Derek Chauvin, and I wanted to get the 22 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: reaction from both of you guys. The jury found the 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: former Indianapolis police officer Derek show And guilty on all 24 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: counts and the death of George Floyd. What was your 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: reaction to that? Wow? For myself, UM, when I heard 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: the reaction, I lit out like a deep sigh and 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: I didn't even know that I was holding my breath, 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, during the whole or deal. So I think 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: for me it was something that took me by surprise, 30 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: but also at the same time didn't give me the 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: same since assess actually not thought it would have. Well, 32 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: I kind of got the Zelie saying as far as 33 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: far as the satisfaction piece. But for me, I wasn't 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: surprised because I watched the prosecutor UM really dive down 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: and do a really good job meticulously to lay out 36 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: that evidence. And uh, you know, I remarked to one 37 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: of my friends, I said, you know, Ray Charles can 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: see this because it's so obvious and he's blind and dead. 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: So at these jurors don't get it. We've got a 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: major problem here in our country. But you know, as 41 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: Zelie just said, I don't know if I was as 42 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: satisfied as I wanted to be, because that's just the 43 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: beginning of a continuation of work to be done. I 44 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: think that, you know, while Keith Ellison and his group 45 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: did a great job on that, it's a broader problem. 46 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: And you know, if we can't identify these kinds of 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: offices earlier on, we got you know, a lot of 48 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: work to do and and and we identify his problems 49 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: and his his I guess demeanor in his his culture 50 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: earlier George Floyd wouldn't have been murdered and he'd still 51 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: be here and we'd be living happily ever after. Well, 52 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: thank you for that reaction, and I truly agree. I 53 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: do think that there's reformed this absolutely necessities, and you 54 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: have to continue to push the ball forward so we 55 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: can identify the bad officers. But understanding that we know 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority of officers are honorable people who serve 57 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis basis to protect us all. Now, 58 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: there's been some conversation in the pressed um just areas 59 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: of the press who have said that they believe that 60 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: drewors made a particular decision because they were concerned about 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: threats of rioting and looting if they didn't make a 62 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: particular decision. I reject that personally, because juries have convicted mobsters, terrorists, 63 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: gang members, all kinds of folks who would literally target 64 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: their families for making a decision against them. Did you 65 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: all think that any of those threats of rioting had 66 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: any impact on the jury's deliberation and conviction? Personally, I didn't. 67 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: I think that during the Voordir process of selection, you 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: could listen to the response from some of those jurors 69 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: and you can tell that they were very intelligent people 70 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: or people that got it. But also you if you 71 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: look back to what I just said about the way 72 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: the prosecution laid it out, I think the most compelling 73 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: I guess uh testimony came from one the chief of 74 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: police and several um officers from that department. But then 75 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: the doctor who you know, laid out the exam piece 76 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: and showed that there was no other cause for the 77 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: death other than the affhixiation where this guy was on 78 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: his stomach with a knee on his neck. Um, you know, 79 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: it was no way in the world that they could 80 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: have come with another thing. And in this, in my mind, 81 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: is an applaud to a breakdown of the thin blue 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: wall that people refer too. Oftentimes when the police chief 83 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: of the department and several members of the department can 84 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,799 Speaker 1: talk about what they had been trained and and and 85 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: there have been trained the same way, and they talked 86 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: about the failure of him to do his job. I mean, 87 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, what else do you need? We agree, especially 88 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: with your sentiment where there's been historical incidences where jurors 89 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: are actually threatened with their lives and still make the 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: right decision UM. And we're also seen where and other 91 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: incidences in other towns where UM officers were indicted and 92 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: charged and there was still threats of rebellions or uprisings 93 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: in Ferguson or Baltimore, those jurors still chose to you know, 94 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: find them and the officer UM not guilty, or in 95 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: some cases where it comes to like a grand jury 96 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: that to choose not to indict the officers. So there's 97 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: been many, many different cases, right and when you look 98 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: at it, only seven officers since two thousand and five 99 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: have ever been convicted for a lot of these police 100 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: involved UM shootings. So it's a very very very very 101 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: very small number of officers who have been charged or 102 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: even indicted and convicted for incidences, and jurors always in 103 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: those cases tend to, you know, find the officers guilty 104 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: or innocent. Rather, Zelie, I want to ask you this 105 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: question because there's been a lot of conversation about the 106 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: Derek Shechlvin and George Floyd um Chauvin trial. Of course, 107 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: he killed George Floyd, but people have said that this 108 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: conviction isn't simply about Derek Shelvin. It's a conviction of 109 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: America as a racist system. And I know there's been 110 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: members of the Black Lives Matter movement who who have 111 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: echoed those sentiments. Do you believe that the system of 112 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: policing is a racist system? Yeah? Um, personally, I do 113 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: believe that the system of policing is racist system from 114 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: its origins, and you know, all throughout American history, UM, 115 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: it has been proven to be a racist institution. Now, 116 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: does this necessarily mean that every single person that's employed 117 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: by the police department is someone that is racist? I 118 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: don't necessarily believe that, right what, they are all working 119 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: in a racist institution. Right, and the same thing goes 120 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: for our public education system. I'm an educator. I know 121 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: the anti blackness that happens in our education system. Am 122 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: I going to say that every single teacher in the 123 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: education system is racist? No, but I know that they 124 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: are in the system and unfortunately are perpetuating the anti 125 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: blackness and the mask incarceration of our youth. So when 126 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: I say that something is you know, racist, it doesn't 127 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: mean that those individuals are out there, you know, saying 128 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: the in word or have a clue Klux Klan outfit 129 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: in their in their closet. But uh, we're saying that 130 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: they are perpetuating something that is um m harming Black 131 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: communities instead of helping them. Now, Chief Cox, you've been 132 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: in law enforcement for many, many years. You ran one 133 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: of the largest police organizations with the executive leaderships, and 134 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: we're talking police chiefs in Chicago, New York and many 135 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: other places. Do you believe that you've been a part 136 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: of a racist system of policing? Well, what I would say, 137 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: I would go even further than that, Uh, Giano, I 138 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: think the criminal justice system has systemic racism components throughout 139 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: and much like what Zelli saying that does not mean 140 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: that we're saying every police officer is a racist or 141 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: has racist practices. I think there's a culture that I 142 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: guess fosters that racism. UH. In dealing with UH communities 143 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: of code, I think that we police, and unfortunately, I've 144 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: seen some of my African American brothers police our own 145 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: communities differently than we should, um you know. And a 146 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: lot of that is not a police matter. A lot 147 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: of it's uh because of our socio economic situations. UM 148 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: you know. You find a lot of poverty in our neighborhoods, 149 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: you find a lot of lack of health care and 150 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: other things. And I think until this country gets really 151 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: serious about addressing those needs, we're gonna have this continuation. Unfortunately, 152 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: because when people find that they are somewhat a minority 153 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: in all aspects of life, they get you know, less 154 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: than UH favorable healthcare, less than favorable attention unless there's 155 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, uh an effect on the other side of 156 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: the tracks, I like to call it. So, there's been 157 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: a drug problem in this country for many, many years, 158 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: and being that a good bit of my career was 159 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: in drug law enforcement. I saw in the early eighties 160 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: with the crack epidemic and we just fondled it in 161 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: and we called it the War on drugs. So now 162 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 1: that there is a opioid problem and prescription drugs are 163 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: being abused, it's now a health crisis, and it's being 164 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: police totally different. And when you have these types of 165 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: things over and over again, and brown and black people 166 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: are the I guess the guinea pigs of that, then 167 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: you have these type of issues. So I would say, yeah, 168 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: there has been systemic racism throughout. I mean, you look 169 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: at the minimum mandatory sentences that put a lot of 170 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: people in jail in the eighties with the crack epidemic, 171 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you look at Barney made Off and 172 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:53,119 Speaker 1: others who have destroyed you know, rich or affluent families 173 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: and then got less than than those type sentences. So, 174 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,599 Speaker 1: I mean, we could go on and on about the 175 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: racism examples in the criminal justice system. Now, of course 176 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: there's been instances of racism, We've seen that, but you 177 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: believe it to be systematic in the way that just 178 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: about every police department is touched, you know, talking to you, uh, 179 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: President Cox, every just about every police department that has 180 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: been touched has has some areas that they need to 181 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: improve around race. It's not just one bad police department 182 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: or maybe three police officers in a particular department, which 183 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: we've seen. Um. You look at Ferguson, you look at 184 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: even Minneapolis, they've had a number of complaint stylesands of complaints, 185 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: and there's not been much of anything done into recently 186 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: when they after George Floyd. So you're thinking that this 187 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: is across the board I do, and with eighteen thousand 188 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: police ages is around the country. There is an immediate 189 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: need for some standards that would be applicable in every 190 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: every agency because you don't know what you're gonna get 191 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: from New York to South Georgia when it comes to 192 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: law enforcement, because they're all made up with different policies, 193 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: different standards, different cultures. Um. You know, for an example, 194 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: when you talk about racial profiling. You know, just this 195 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: past week, we had a young rapper in Atlanta who 196 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: accused the Atlanta Police Department of racial profiling him while 197 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: traveling through the harsh Phield Jackson Airport. UM. And it 198 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: turned out not to be the Atlanta Police Department but 199 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: the Clayton County Police Department. So what I'm saying to 200 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: you is as long as money is associated with policing, 201 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: it's gonna be those kinds of problems as well, because 202 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: a lot of agencies can't don't have the budgets of 203 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: a New York or l A p D. But they 204 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: make their money by doing other things, you know, drug interdiction, 205 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: traffic stops, um, those kinds of things. And you get 206 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: to think when a lot of these enforcement efforts are conducted, 207 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: they're actually in the black and brown communities, and they 208 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: get a different set of policing versus you know, on 209 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: the other side of the tracks, where you know, Mrs 210 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: Mrs Jones runs a light, we stop and tell her, Okay, 211 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: Mrs Jones, next time, you gotta be very careful. But 212 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: Bobo comes through the light on the other side of 213 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: the tracks. He's playing his music loud. He asked the 214 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: officer why did he stop him? And before you know it, 215 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: he's got a citation and he's off on his way. 216 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: That's so what I'm saying, Yes, there is a very 217 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: very different approach and and and and you know President 218 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: Obama tried to address it in the twenty one Century 219 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: Policing Document when he said that, you know, agencies should 220 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: have the hiring makeup that reflect the demographics of their community. 221 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: If you bring a guy into a poverty struck in 222 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: black community who has never seen an African American, he's 223 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: probably not gonna know how to deal with that person 224 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: and know our cultural habits, and therefore it's gonna be 225 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: a miscommunication at some point. Okay. So we've also seen 226 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: other elements of black law enforcement officers who might have 227 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: grown up in the same community, that's u Chicago as 228 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: an example, in Inglewood as an example, and they know 229 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: the cultural habits of the individuals and someone still dies 230 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: at the hand of the police. Does that make it 231 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: a racist incident? Does that make it? I mean, obviously 232 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: it depends on the what actually happened, But you still 233 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: kind of see the same approaches no matter if the 234 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: cop is black or white. So is it a matter 235 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: of um people talking to officers different showing a particular 236 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: set of respect for officers. As I was talking when 237 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: I was growing up, you gotta respect police officers, yes 238 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: or no, sir. What's what's the what's the distinction here? 239 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: That's no longer applicable with today's culture. And I think 240 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: again that's the culture of the agency and the what's 241 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: what's allowed. Okay, so you know, every chief, if he's honest, 242 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: will tell you he knows has a good idea. Who's 243 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: these problem kids, problem problem officers are. But at two 244 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, when guys are standing on the corner, 245 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: Mrs Jones is blowing the chief's phone up or writing emails. 246 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: I want to say, I want this corner clear to 247 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: they're breaking in cars. The Chief's gonna send that message 248 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: back down stream and tell you know, his subordinates. I 249 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: want something done about it. He didn't at that point 250 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: care how it's done. He just wants it cleaned up, 251 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: and he's gonna send that message. And how they interpret 252 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: it could be something totally different. I'm not saying that 253 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: there are chiefs who are out here instructing these officers 254 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: to go do rogue things by no means. But I'm 255 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: saying that if you are worth your assault as an administrator, 256 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: you kind of know who's on your team and what's 257 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: going on. If you don't, you know, if you you 258 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: turn your head and have a blind eye to it, 259 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: that's your fault and you should be liable some kind 260 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: of civil cifically uh civilly um. If you don't do 261 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: something thing about it, because we should be asking our 262 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: community what do they expect from policing, and we should 263 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: be able to give it to him in the right way. 264 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: You don't walk in the walmart and they tell you 265 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: what you want to buy today. You go in there 266 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: and you buy what you want or what you need. 267 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 1: And that's how policing should be in my mind, in 268 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: our communities, because you can't police every community is saying, 269 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: but you can have policies that would be applicable to 270 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: protect the sanctity of the community. And I think that's 271 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: where we gotta go. Okay, I want to direct my 272 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: next question is Zelie and if you would Chief Cox 273 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: to to follow up after that. By now, I'm sure 274 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: you've both seen the video of the white police officer 275 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: at Columbus, Ohio who responded to the call about someone 276 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: armed with a knife. The officer arrived at the scene 277 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: and shot a black female teenager who was trying to 278 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: stab another black female teenager. Do you think the police 279 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: officer acted correctly and save the life or do you 280 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: think he should have tried something else to deescalate the situation? Yeah, right, 281 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: so I think that's um a great question. And it's 282 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: one that a lot of people are having right now, 283 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: this whole bit conflict about you know, police violence, if 284 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: that was an incident of police violence, and I personally 285 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: would say, like, yes, it was an incident of police violence. 286 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: And the way the reason why I say that is 287 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm an educator, all right. I teach in the classroom. Unfortunately, 288 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: I have to break up fights sometimes sometimes those kids 289 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: have weapons. Sometimes those kids have you know, things that 290 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: can seriously injure someone. And if I say, for example, 291 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: if I lived in a town or or a state 292 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: that allowed teachers to carry guns, and if I pull 293 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: out a gun to like shoot down a student, everyone 294 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: would look at me like like I did something something wrong. 295 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: And teachers all across America are pretty much expected to 296 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 1: you know, protect their students even if a student has 297 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: um a weapon, and in many instances people teachers are 298 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: able to disarm those individuals. And I think that instead 299 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: of us thinking in a way that you know, the 300 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: officer was correct and what they did and that he 301 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: saved their life, at this same time, he took a life, 302 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: So it was a life really saved in any of 303 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: those equations, and we need to think about what what 304 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: ways if there was possible that that could have ended differently, 305 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: And think about how can we change the thinking of 306 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: police officers where instead of thinking that, you know, um, 307 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: firing a lethal weapon is the way to disfuse that 308 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: situation in that moment, what other ways could that have 309 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: been handled? All right? And I think when we start 310 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: having those conversations, we can start to say to ourselves, like, 311 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: maybe that situation could have been uh de escalated in 312 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: a much faster way, and both of those lives may 313 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: have been saved. Even if the young woman was stabbed, 314 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: she could have been stabbed and saved. But I think 315 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: that the shooting just us just ultimately took someone's life 316 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: that didn't need to be taken. So let me ask 317 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: you this question as a follow up, Zli. So, if 318 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: this was your daughter, your sister, and I'm referring to 319 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: the young lady who was not behind the knife, but 320 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: the one who almost became a victim to to the knife, 321 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 1: and if she would have successfully cut that young lady's 322 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: throat and killed her, and it was a police officer 323 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: on the scene who could have stopped the situation, would 324 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: you have rather your sister or your daughter had died 325 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: just to prevent a shooting in that situation, you know, 326 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: like thankfully, uh, you know, I would say that the 327 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: officer had decent aim, right, because he could have shot 328 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: the people next to him, right the girl next to her, 329 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: So we don't know what would have happened, right, So 330 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: how would I would have felt if I was in 331 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: that situation and he ended up shooting not just the 332 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: girl but also an innocent bystandard? What if the bullet 333 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: went through someplace else and shot somebody else? Um, So 334 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: we have to think about like the whole community there 335 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: that's literally been traumatized from that incident. And I think 336 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: about the girl that was even um saved. If we 337 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: interviewed her, like what she think to herself right now, 338 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: that she would what would she rather have? What she 339 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: had rather have that girl alive? I think that she 340 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: would rather have that girl alive, you know, and if 341 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: there was any other option, she would have hoped that 342 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: officer would have been able to take that one. Do 343 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: you think that was a racist cop killing someone in 344 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: that situation because people have been on on social media 345 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: saying that there was another instance of a racist police 346 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: officer murdering a young black person. Do you agree with 347 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: that assessment, I wouldn't necessarily say that they're racist, because 348 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: I don't know what's in their hearts and minds, right, 349 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: But when we look at so many different instances of 350 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: individuals who were armed and who were white, and who 351 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: were able to leave with their lives, I think that 352 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: sometimes when we think about racism, it's not necessarily about 353 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: if that cop ever call someone inward. It's about does 354 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: he value that humans that that other person's life. And 355 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: I don't think that he valued her life to the 356 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: point where he was willing to do anything, you know, 357 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: in order to save her life. Chief, did this officer 358 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: performed correctly in your view? So thank you? And I respectfully, 359 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: um uh, you know, entertain Zelie's comments, but I disagree. Um. 360 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: And then the thing about this is, as I viewed 361 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: this over and over and and I've listened to various commentaries, 362 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: and I've even gone to the Chicago website of Accountability 363 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: for Policing and they have a couple of different versions 364 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: of the video. I'm sorry I'm mixing too. I'm sorry 365 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: I've looked at so many shootings lately. I'm sorry I'm 366 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: confusing to Chicago with the Columbus but on the Columbus shooting, 367 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 1: I think that was a justified shooting, and that when 368 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: he also got out of the vehicle, he was already 369 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: giving commands and that's part of the use of force 370 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: continued and nobody was following the commands as this young 371 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: man was given. And in this situation, I've heard many 372 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: folks say, well, why didn't he deploy a taser? I 373 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: think America is expecting tasers to be the magic one 374 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 1: in a lot of these instances right now. Tases embody 375 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: cameras that are most wanted things from our citizens. Ury 376 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: and every agency, first of all, don't have tasers. Every 377 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: agency don't have bloody cameras, unfortunately. But this young lady 378 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: failed to follow any of the commands, and this officer 379 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: had nothing else in my mind, that he could have 380 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: done in that short length of time that he had. 381 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: This was a split second decision. And actually I claused 382 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: that officers response because had he not, um, you know, 383 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: protected the life of the young lady who was about 384 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: to be a victim, um, then he would have been 385 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: criticized for not doing his job and he would have 386 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: violated his oath of office. One the other piece to it, 387 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: is just like you know, ZELI just referred this guy 388 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: had some extreme marchmanship capabilities because I know in my 389 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: mind as I watched him go down range with those rounds, 390 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, this guy is is pretty proficient with 391 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: his firearm. And that's a good professional officer in my mind, 392 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: because that's what we're taught in the academy. We're taught. 393 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: You know, so many people have said, you know, why 394 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: did he shooting in the chest? Why didn't the shooter 395 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: in their leg? What did he we as a police officer, 396 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: if you don't shoot in the chest during your qualifications 397 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: period in training, you're not allowed to care a firearm. 398 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: There's no other acceptable points of injury, so to speak, 399 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: with a firearm other than center mass we call it, 400 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: and that's right in the middle of the chest, because 401 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: that's uh most likely going to put you down. Um So, 402 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: in my mind and based on what I've seen so far, 403 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: this is a justified shooting. And I don't appreciate um 404 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: O our country putting all these in one bag. And 405 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: and and I think a lot of people because of 406 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: the tension that's going on with other shootings, and there's 407 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: some bad ones out there, and I'll be first to 408 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: tell you we cannot put this Columbus shooting in the 409 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: same bag as we can put this is not like 410 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: a little Kwan McDonald type shooting in Chicago. And I'm 411 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: still looking at the one in North Carolina. I'm not 412 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: really sure on that one. It's as well. Yeah, um, 413 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: but you know, it's unfortunate that we keep having these. 414 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: We're talking to Zeali Amani and Claren Scott's the third 415 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: of Black Lives Matter activists and a former police chief. 416 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: We've gotten much more with them after a quick way 417 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: in terms of putting all the shootings in one bag. 418 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: And we've seen time and time again and there's a 419 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: right officer involved, and there was a shooting w black person, 420 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: no matter that they're young, old man, woman, whatever, there 421 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: is deemed racist in my concern, especially being someone who 422 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: comes from a very dangerous area on the South side 423 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: of Chicago, and having just three years ago Memorial Day weekend, 424 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: my younger brother in the car with two of his friends, 425 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: and two men walked up shot the car twenty five times. 426 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: He lived, but his best friend died in his arms. 427 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: So considering the environment that we're in now, when it 428 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: comes to police again America. If every police involved shooting 429 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: with the African American is deemed racest, what if it 430 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: happened tomorrow where my little brother, that situation that happened 431 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: three years ago, and a white officer was around the corner, 432 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: heard the call, and he found out that the suspects 433 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: were black, and there's a shooting going on that he 434 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 1: can possibly save a life. But hell, i don't want 435 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: to be called a racist, so I'm not gonna get involved. 436 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: I'm gonna way to the bullets fly and they get away, 437 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: and then maybe I'll get around to get the ambulance. 438 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: When is it that we begin to have a really 439 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: honest dialogue about policing in America. We're doing that right now, 440 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: but we've seen it become so politicized. We've seen with 441 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter, Democrats have gotten in alved and they've 442 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: made it more about their appeal to the black community 443 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: versus real, real policy changes. We saw what Tim Scott 444 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: did last year when he was trying to pass the 445 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: police reform bill, and he offered Democrats an opportunity, a 446 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: manager's amendment, to put whatever they wanted in the build, 447 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: and they walked away from the table because they wanted 448 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: it to be about politics. They wanted to win elections 449 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: off of it. And it's been my saying black lives 450 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: don't matter the Democrats black boats do. So with that 451 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: consideration in mind, especially, use that lead because you're you're 452 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: a part of the movement, you're an organizer, you run 453 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: a chapter. What is it we can do to take 454 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: politics out of these discussions and talk more about policy? Yeah, 455 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: I don't think that you can um separate the two, right. Um. 456 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: I think what Clarence was saying earlier in the broadcast 457 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: was really really phenomenal because when we talk about the 458 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: issues of why we have policing or why our areas 459 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: are heavily policed in the first place. When you think 460 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: about the safest communities in your state, the safest community, 461 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: um that you know off the most safest communities don't 462 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: have more police officers, right, they usually have less police officers. 463 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: Was made a community safer is they have access to 464 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: more resources. They don't have more cops, they have more 465 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: they have better jobs, better healthcare, better better educational system, 466 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: have better quality food, better recreation services. Those are the 467 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: things that make communities safer and stronger. So when the 468 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: urban communities want to be safe, Why instead of giving 469 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: us jobs and better quality education, you give us more 470 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: police officers, right, And that that's the disconnect that's going 471 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: on right there when we say that in order to 472 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: fight crime, um, it's not by hiring more police officers. 473 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: You fight crime by fighting poverty, and we're not doing that, 474 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: We're not doing at all. And instead, by putting more 475 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: police officers, you're actually increasing the proximity to police officers 476 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: and uh the black community which is already strained, and 477 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: creating these in these interactions which can be volent or 478 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: whereas Clarence point out, can be predatory, where these officers 479 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 1: are now just on certain communities over for various um infractions. 480 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: And to really really really get into these conversations is 481 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: really important because we really need to understand the role 482 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: of policing in this country and really think about how 483 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: can we re reimagine public safety? How can we reimagine 484 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: public safety? So we hear the cries of defunding the police, 485 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: it's not about like getting rid of public safety, It's 486 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: about how can we reimagine public safety? Because domestic violence 487 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: is happening in our neighborhoods, child abuse, and sexual saul 488 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: is happening in our neighborhoods. You can hire seven hundred cops, 489 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: eight hundred cops. Domestic violence is still happening. People are 490 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: still not safe. So how then can we use the 491 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: little mental money that we do have to allocate it 492 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: in other areas that can actually make people safer. And 493 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: these are the conversations that we really do have to 494 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: start having, Like our police always effective doing every single job, 495 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: because police do so many different roles that they may 496 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: not be necessarily be you know, necessary in that if 497 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: I got into a minor car accident, do I really 498 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: need an armed police officer there at that moment just 499 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: to take a report? The officer could be doing something 500 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: much more you know serious. He could be out you know, 501 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: uh responding to a robbery or shooting, but right now 502 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 1: he's you know, taking notes or buying a report. Or 503 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,719 Speaker 1: if I uh come into my house and it's already 504 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: got broken into, I don't really need an armed police 505 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 1: officer there. I just need someone to take the report, 506 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: and that doesn't necessarily have to be an officer. So 507 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: how can we reimagine the roles and the duties of 508 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: police officers and kind of like break it down and 509 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: see like where do we need them and where do 510 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: we not need them, and how do we minimize the 511 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: interactions with individuals? And that is why we need to 512 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: have these conversations about politics and policy. To Zeli's point, 513 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: I agree, Uh, And it's funny you you talk about that. 514 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: I just co chaired a task force called Reimagining Public 515 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: Safety along with my colleague, doctor sed Alexander, were both 516 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: past presidents of Noble National Organization Black Law Enforcement and 517 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: and and you're right, we've got the first defined public safety. 518 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: That's the first piece. Because public safety could also be 519 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: you know, lead in water, in in in Michigan, because 520 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: that's a safety issue. Public safety is a lot of things. 521 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: And I think what has happened is over a period 522 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: of time we've segued from just being the police to 523 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: being as you say, uh, you know, the counselors and 524 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: mental health coordinators and all of these things. And we 525 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: we we don't have the toolbox of the capacity to 526 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: band with to perform all these things. But you know, 527 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: in every community across this country, if you have an emergency, 528 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: whatever the emergency it is, you din nine one one. 529 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: And when you down nine one one you expect some response. 530 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: The majority of the time that's a law enforcement officer 531 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: police officer. So we've got the first in public safety. 532 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: What is public safety? And when we talk about defunding, 533 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: I don't agree with the defunding mechanism, but I do 534 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: agree that if we have agencies that cannot comply to 535 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: a certain set of standards, a certain than a certain 536 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: set of of goals and commissions, then they should not 537 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: be able to receive money from the federal government for funding. 538 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: They should not be able to participate in the asset 539 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: forfeit your program where if an officer stops a drug 540 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: dealing with a car full of money, they can no 541 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: longer see that money and sees that car and put 542 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: it into an operational budget. It should go into maybe 543 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: a federal budget or a state budget, because then that 544 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: gives them an incentive to do right. So if we're 545 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: going to get this thing right, and you talk Giano 546 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: about the politics and the policing, it's going to be 547 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: there as long as people continue to have some sort 548 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: of money at the at the bottom of everything, almost 549 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: as money. And I think as long as these folks 550 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: don't feel the pinch from the money and it's popular. 551 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: You know, everybody's out now with a sound bite saying, 552 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, we need to do this, We need to 553 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: do that. There's more practitioners in law enforcement there and 554 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: then there is in any other profession. If you think 555 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: about it, if a doctor botches a surgery, he pays 556 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: the insurance, go plays golf until they pay it off, 557 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: and these back on the operating room tomorrow. If we 558 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: were to put those same type of standards in law enforcement, 559 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: you have to have a certain certification. If you screw up, 560 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: you get put on a list, and then you are 561 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: not able to go from one agency to another. We 562 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: can stop this, but this is a growing cancer across 563 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: the country because if I screw up at this agency 564 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: and it doesn't make the news, and sometimes even if 565 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: it makes the news, I'm able to go get a 566 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: job somewhere else until somebody figure it out. You know. 567 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: So I think we've we've got a long way to go. 568 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: But these kinds of conversations are the healthy conversations, because 569 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: we're sitting here of an adult conversation on how to 570 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: work this out. The people that UH really empower to 571 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: do these things are not doing them because nobody wants 572 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: to lose. It's not about winning and losing. It's about 573 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: what's best for the American public. These people in our 574 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: communities demand more, and until we can build trust and 575 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: legitimacy in our law enforcement agencies, we're not going to 576 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: get the respect that we used to get. You know, 577 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: I heard one of you guys said minute ago, when 578 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: you were growing up, everybody respected police and all that. 579 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: You know, my first call, I knocked on the door 580 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: and lady says, who is it? I said, police? Lady said, 581 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: police poets paid at least thought about. I will never 582 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: forget that because what she said it stays in my head. 583 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: Most officers don't make the money that they want to 584 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: make or should make for the job that they do, 585 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: and nobody respects us, and a lot of that is 586 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: our fault because of some things like what deare chevling 587 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,479 Speaker 1: just did? You know? So it's it's not all. Everybody 588 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: has skin in this game, and I think until everybody 589 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: takes a role, in active role in trying to correct 590 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: this and not playing the blame game, pointing fingers, Oh, 591 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: it's no, it's you. It's as you as you, we're 592 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: not going to solve this. We can have conversations all 593 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: day long, was Zalie. I wanted to follow up on 594 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: something you mentioned in terms of defunding the police. Now 595 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: I've seen on your Twitter you've mentioned defunding the police 596 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: on a number of occasions is something you clearly believe in. 597 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: And to be honest, there's been a number of police 598 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: organizations that have been defunded across the country, to the 599 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: tune of almost nine hundred million dollars in police funding 600 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: in some of the most major jurisdictions across the country. 601 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,959 Speaker 1: Not with that being the case, we saw a thirty 602 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: three percent increase in homicide last year UM for sixty 603 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: two or sixty six of the largest police jurisdiction saw 604 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: increases and at least one category of violent crime in 605 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: and we continue to see crime go up in a 606 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: number of these areas. Police officers are leaving their positions 607 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: at alarming rates for a number of police departments. Police 608 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: departments are being defunded. But who is it Who is 609 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: it hurting more? Is it? Is it hurting the officers 610 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: who decided to just give up the career. Maybe you 611 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: get a bad officer off the street, Maybe you get 612 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: a good officer off the street. But isn't that making 613 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: our our communities more vulnerable to violence and crime? Not necessarily, 614 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: I think that we shouldn't be always conflating about the 615 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: rise and violent crimes at the same time. Where we 616 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: see a rise in COVID nineteen cases, right, we see 617 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: a rise of unemployment in a lot of the same 618 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: urban areas. So a lot of these urban areas, um 619 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: some people haven't been to work since the pandemics has started. 620 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: So we see increase in a lot of these violent 621 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: crimes and a lot of these situations. So I wouldn't 622 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: necessarily say that the rise of violent crime has anything 623 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: to do with defunding the police departments or uh police 624 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: department apathy. I think is there zat exact opposite. Going 625 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: back to defunding the police, right, A lot of people 626 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: are scared when they hear the term defunding police again 627 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: because they think of it as what is going to happen, 628 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: Who's going to keep us safe? Where Again, where Clarence 629 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: was saying, it's not about defunding or getting rid of 630 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: public safety, is about reimagining public safety. And what we 631 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: see right now is happening where many of these towns 632 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: are defunding the police, they're actually funding other initiatives like 633 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: anti violence initiatives. We see that anti violence initiatives like 634 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: violence interrupters have UM significant um um improvements in Chicago 635 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: and the Bronx where they're able to use their violence 636 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: interrupters to reduce retaliations and UM do ceasefires and really 637 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: work with these at risk communities to prevent gun violence. 638 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,719 Speaker 1: These are the types of things that we need to 639 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: be UM focusing on. One of the things UM I 640 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: talk all the time. To give an example, when we 641 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: knock on doors to talk to many community members and 642 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: ask them with some of the wrong things that the 643 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,439 Speaker 1: city needs improvement. They always mentioned recreation, right, They always mentioned, 644 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: our kids have nothing to do out here in the streets. 645 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: There's no football programs, no more, there's no basketball programs, 646 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: there's no recreation centers. And I tell them that the 647 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: city's budget is two hundred million dollars and forty million 648 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: dollars goes to the police department salaries. That's almost a 649 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: quarter million, quarter percent, but only two million dollars goes 650 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: to the recreation department. Only two million dollars to fund 651 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: the activities for the use. And then when people hear 652 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: that they're saying, you know, like you know, maybe we 653 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,919 Speaker 1: can like you know, shift or allocate some money from 654 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: the police department, which has the largest budget, and put 655 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: it someplace else into the kids. And again, we look 656 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: at the demographies of our police department. Majority of our 657 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: police do not even live in our communities. So you 658 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: think about that's forty million dollars that's not going into 659 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: our urban areas. That's forty million dollars going into the 660 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: suburbs and surrounding towns. So what happens if we actually 661 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: invest ten million dollars or five million dollars, even forty 662 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: million dollars into people who actually live here, who actually 663 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 1: need the money. And I think with those types of thinking, 664 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: it's how we are able to drastically improve our neighborhoods 665 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: when we think about money and who we are investing into. Now, 666 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 1: you mentioned the COVID nineteen, the rise in the COVID 667 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: nineteen cases, and I'm assuming that you're saying that because 668 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: of COVID nineteen, a lot of people were laid off 669 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: their jobs. Is that right? Most Definitely a lot of 670 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: people were laid off that wasn't able to to work. 671 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: And then we also see people um, you know, suffering 672 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: from depression and turn into drugs. So there's a lot 673 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: of reasons for um this COVID nineteen uh rise with 674 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: violence as well, and it's very sad to see. But 675 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: I think it's not impossible to be and it has 676 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: to be not through more policing, but how can we 677 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: invest in other alternatives that keep people safe. But if 678 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: we take into account the fact that when COVID nineteen happened, 679 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: the unemployment rate did go up, of course, but there 680 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: was a lot of government programs in which people were 681 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: in the bottom rung actually ended up making more money 682 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: from unemployment programs than they did in their normal day 683 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: to day jobs. So could that really be the reason 684 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: for the rise and violent crime or right after we 685 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 1: saw like when you think about the rioting and a 686 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: looting under behind George Floyd, that wasn't because of COVID nineteen, 687 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: people were rioting and looting. People in the Black Lives 688 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: Niner movement in Chicago specifically said that it was reparations 689 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: for black people going into black neighborhoods, uh, smashing those 690 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: stories and stealing things out of that. Is that really 691 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: the reason COVID nineteen is really the reason why a 692 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: lot of these crimes took place. I think that COVID 693 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: nineteen was a reason why a lot of crimes in general. 694 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: When I say COVID nineteen, I don't mean like COVID 695 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 1: nineteen the exact virus is the reason why. But the 696 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: conditions and the hardships that COVID nineteen um calls for 697 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: a lot of our communities can be contributed to a 698 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: lot of the rising crimes. Chief so most a major 699 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: cities right now. Gianno, as you said, spike in a 700 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: take of crime. But I think to kind of address 701 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: with Elie saying about the defunding and putting money into recreation, 702 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily agree with the way you're talking about it, 703 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: but I do agree that there instead of defunding, I 704 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: would like to see reallocations some some kind of way 705 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,439 Speaker 1: of some of the funding in that rather than trying 706 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 1: to put a civilian in the police officers capacity um 707 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: to put them in harm's way. You know, I'd like 708 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: to maybe see UH funding for some mental health counselors 709 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: that are sworn so they can carry a dual road. 710 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: You know, you have a police officer that's specifically trained 711 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 1: in mental health that could respond to some of these calls. 712 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: I speak with sheriffs from across the country on a 713 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: regular basis who share with me that the majority of 714 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: their population are mental health patients and doing a Reagan administration, 715 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: and Jean, I know you may remember that most of 716 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: those major health mental health facilities were shut down and 717 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: so now there's no real place to put them so 718 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: to speak, to seek any treatment, and now they're being 719 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,319 Speaker 1: wide were housed in UH jails across this country. So 720 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to see any money taken away, but 721 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: I'd like to see money maybe added or reallocate it. Okay, So, 722 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 1: as we talked about the recreation issues with the young folks, UM, 723 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: a lot of major cities have police athletic leagues where 724 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: young kids are able to participate in organize in amurial 725 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: sports and it's kind of led by that police agency. 726 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: I think that's a plus plus because a lot of kids, 727 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: the images that they have law enforcement is a negative 728 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: image and most of it comes from TV and the 729 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 1: other comes from the crazy things that they see UH 730 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 1: officers do. But you know, I know, when I ran 731 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: a school resource program, some of the greatest UH interactions 732 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: with the young people came came from my school resource 733 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: officers because they were in the schools having those interactions 734 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: with those young folks, and they were providing counseling, so 735 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: to speak, not formal counseling, but the relationships and the 736 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: dialogues that they created also created something that carried on. 737 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: I can remember several occasions where I had an interaction 738 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: with a young person and later on it meant something 739 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: to them. And to this day, I have young folks 740 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,879 Speaker 1: to come up to me all the time, Hey, Chief, 741 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm doing this, I'm doing it, you know, proud that 742 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: they've got a job, or proud that they got in 743 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: some college. You know that they didn't think they could 744 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: get into UM. So I think we could do both. 745 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: I think we can UM reallocate some funding and put 746 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: it in the right place. And and the only way 747 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this again is we've got to have 748 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: a commission. And and the only mission or possibility of 749 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: a commission on law enforcement of public safety right now 750 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,840 Speaker 1: that's being offered is this George Floord UH law that 751 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: they're trying to pass UH right now that nobody is 752 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: really moving on. And I think guys is that we 753 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: talk about removing funding most caught, uh, I mean most 754 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: agencies or so screwstrap right now. They don't have the 755 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: funding to form the duties that they are prescribed to 756 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: do right now. So until we you know, this country 757 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: has way too many police departments as it is, but 758 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: until we can get it all under one umbrella, so 759 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,280 Speaker 1: to speak, and get the same standards across the board, 760 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: same type policies, those kind of things, I'll keep preaching that, Uh, 761 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna have these issues. So consistency and uniformity is 762 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,839 Speaker 1: what you're saying across the board nationally, is what's necessities 763 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: in order to improve policing in the country. Before we 764 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: move on, let's take a quick break back in the 765 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:09,280 Speaker 1: second Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation received about ninety 766 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: million dollars in corporate donations last year from various corporations. 767 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,600 Speaker 1: After the death of George Floyd, there's been a number 768 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 1: of chapters. Michael Brown Senior, for example, requested twenty million 769 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: dollars from the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, which 770 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,359 Speaker 1: I don't believe they've received. There's been people like Samir Rights, 771 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: Tamer Rights's mother who, of course her son died I 772 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: think he was ten or eleven years old. He was 773 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: shot by a police officer. He had a toy gun 774 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: on a playground and they just pulled up and shot him. 775 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: There's been a number of other people who have criticized 776 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: people like to Tamika Maori um and others for using 777 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: black deaths to advance uh their profit structure, if you will. 778 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,319 Speaker 1: And these are things that are people have stated in 779 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: reporting and on social media. There's been a lot of 780 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: folks who who said that the organization, the head of 781 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,800 Speaker 1: the organization, has disenfranchised a lot of the local chapters. 782 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 1: You run a local chapter, have you seen any money 783 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,359 Speaker 1: from the from the foundation, from the head of your 784 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: your group, right, Um, so I'm part of the Black 785 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: Lives Better on Patterson and UM, I would say maybe 786 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,399 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, UM, a group of Black 787 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 1: Lives Matter chapters called Black Lives Matter ten had released 788 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,160 Speaker 1: a statement UM initially talking about some of these issues. 789 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: Once they found out that uh, like ninety million dollars 790 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: was nine I forgot how much money it was. It 791 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: was nine email a lot of months and it cost 792 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,080 Speaker 1: a lot of problems because ever since the George Floyd, 793 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,719 Speaker 1: even before George Floyd. Many chapters were trying to get 794 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: more transparency and accountability UM from Black Lives Matter Global, 795 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,200 Speaker 1: right UM, And there's a lot of issues around that 796 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: and all a lot of the chapters really wanted with 797 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 1: some type of accountability and some type of support that 798 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 1: a lot of chapters we're doing fantastic sick work in 799 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,240 Speaker 1: their communities, but they knew that they could do even 800 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: more if they had financial support from Black Lives Matter Global. 801 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 1: So a lot of people were very upset that UM 802 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: the Global Network was sitting on this much money and 803 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,920 Speaker 1: wasn't distributing it to UM the chapters so that they 804 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: can support the communities. UM I personally stand in solidarity 805 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: with Tamar and mother's Rice and Mike Brown Senior and 806 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,480 Speaker 1: all the other families that UM I feel slided by 807 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,560 Speaker 1: UM black Lives Matter Global. I really do think that 808 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter Global Network needs to really address these concerns. 809 00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 1: It really needs to address these grievances to really support 810 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,919 Speaker 1: these families, families that they say they are supporting, Because 811 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 1: when you're saying you're fighting for Black Lives Matter, it's 812 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,760 Speaker 1: just not about fighting for the people whom were killed 813 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: by police. But it's also about fighting for the Black 814 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,279 Speaker 1: lives that are still here. Need to be able to 815 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: be supporting UM these black families that are still grieving. 816 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,800 Speaker 1: You need to be also supporting to the best billy 817 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: Black communities nationwide and supporting your your local chapters. So 818 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: I hope that with all this criticism that the Black 819 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,600 Speaker 1: Lives Matter Global will turn a new leaf and you know, 820 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: UM change some of their processes or support UM these 821 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: families that have been asking for monetary support. Now we 822 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: know some of the Black Lives Matter co founders have 823 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: described themselves as trained Marxists. As the Black Lives Matter 824 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,879 Speaker 1: movement of trained, is it a Marxist movement? I want 825 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,920 Speaker 1: to say that the Black Lives Matter movement is um 826 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 1: a Marxist movement at all. I would definitely say that 827 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: there's many people within Black Lives Matter UM the movement 828 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,759 Speaker 1: who are potentially Marxist. And it's also people who are 829 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, just just have no label for themselves. They 830 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,640 Speaker 1: just want to see, you know, a change in America. UM. 831 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 1: I personally don't think that you know, Marxism is necessarily 832 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,760 Speaker 1: like a negative word. It's just UM, a person who 833 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,840 Speaker 1: had a strong critique of capitalism and really made a 834 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: lot of people understand what capitalism was, and that is 835 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: a hierarchy. It's it's like an upside down try and go. 836 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: There's people on the top, and many of us are 837 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: going to be on the bottom. And for many of us, 838 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,800 Speaker 1: being on the bottom is mostly black and brown people. 839 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: So for a lot of Marxists it means that we 840 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: don't want to live in a society where, um, there's 841 00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,320 Speaker 1: only one option or two options, either stay in the 842 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: bottom or go to the top, and meaning that there's 843 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,160 Speaker 1: not allow of room on the top in the first place, 844 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,959 Speaker 1: and there'll never be a lot of room at the top. 845 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,879 Speaker 1: Just like as you as you're a kid, you all 846 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,800 Speaker 1: we all had our dreams of being in the NBA 847 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: or NFL, and our teachers had to tell us, like, yo, 848 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: there's not a chance you're gonna be in the NFL 849 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,879 Speaker 1: and the NBA, no matter how good you are. There's 850 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,839 Speaker 1: only a certain amount of people who are ever making 851 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,440 Speaker 1: into the NBA. And that's unfortunately how it is when 852 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: it comes to being rich or wealthy. We all like 853 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: to think that we could all have the chance to 854 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: be billionaires and millionaires, but the actuality it's not and 855 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: we need to be able to change that system so 856 00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,879 Speaker 1: that everyone has access to the same resorts and has 857 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,319 Speaker 1: the ability to live for fruitful life. So talking about Marxism, 858 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter organization deleted to pay saying disrupting 859 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,839 Speaker 1: the Western prescribed nuclear family structure is one of its 860 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,399 Speaker 1: core principles. Now we're talking about Black Lives Matter here. 861 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:15,759 Speaker 1: We know that about seventy percent of Black babies are 862 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,400 Speaker 1: born out of wedlock, and the collapse of the black 863 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: family has this devested our community. So how is destroying 864 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: the black family is supposed to have black help black people. 865 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,359 Speaker 1: I think it's mostly about when we talk about white supremacy, 866 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,600 Speaker 1: it's the whole idea that the nuclear family is the 867 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 1: type of household that should be m adhere to and 868 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:44,240 Speaker 1: anything else is like demonized, right, And that is something 869 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: that you know, I don't necessarily agree with, you know. 870 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 1: And when I say that is when we look back 871 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,560 Speaker 1: in our own history, whether it's pre you know, child slavery, 872 00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: we live in mostly extended families. It was nothing wrong 873 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,680 Speaker 1: with having an extended family, but now for some reason 874 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,319 Speaker 1: it's like frowned upon. And I think that we talk 875 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,960 Speaker 1: about that is about um not always saying that having 876 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,200 Speaker 1: a nuclear family is the goal, but being able to say, like, 877 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: all right, we welcome all types of families. You know, 878 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: as long as a strong family and a strong, healthy family, 879 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: then it shouldn't be to not we need to be 880 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 1: able to have strong families. If it is a new 881 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: great you know, if it's extended family, live with grandma live, 882 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,280 Speaker 1: you know, great grandma. Great. That's not the stated purpose 883 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 1: of Marxism though, like that, I feel as though the 884 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,240 Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter movement is uh, there's a difference between 885 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: the movement and the organization certainly, And we see what's 886 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: going on in the organization. You just mentioned it yourself. 887 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: How they're collecting all these millions of dollars, they're not 888 00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,279 Speaker 1: necessarily distributing to the trapters, which you all are saying 889 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: that you do really good work. It should be conversations 890 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,960 Speaker 1: with law enforcement daily, talking about policy initiatives, et cetera. 891 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,960 Speaker 1: We're not necessarily seeing that they're keeping the money seemingly 892 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 1: for themselves and maybe selectively poor it into different organizations. 893 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: So this is something that obviously needs to change with 894 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,320 Speaker 1: you guys, And how could you be associated with global 895 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: organization like that, It's not necessarily caring about black lives, 896 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: if you will, because they're not pouring in the money 897 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:22,120 Speaker 1: that they're they've collectively received from corporations to enhance the 898 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 1: lives of black people. Black folks aren't seeing that money. 899 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: I agree, like black people aren't seeing those those funds. 900 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 1: Chapters aren't seeing those funds. But it's going to be 901 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: up to myself and other leaders of various chapters to 902 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:39,319 Speaker 1: hold on the leadership account to make sure that from 903 00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,759 Speaker 1: now on, individuals and communities need to be supported with 904 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 1: any money that is being distributed to global network. And 905 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,600 Speaker 1: that's part of the fight. And unfortunately sometimes you have 906 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,719 Speaker 1: to fight internally as well, and that doesn't necessarily have 907 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,319 Speaker 1: to always be a negative thing. Okay, And my my 908 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: last question to you on this front, do you believe 909 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: the members of the Democratic Party and white liberals specifically 910 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,600 Speaker 1: are trying to co opt your movement for their own 911 00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:09,120 Speaker 1: purposes political and otherwise. Oh, of course I definitely do 912 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:14,480 Speaker 1: agree that. You know, um, there's always been instances where democratics, 913 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, Democratic Party or Democratic leadership wants to co opt, 914 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,879 Speaker 1: you know, the Black Lives Matter movement because it is 915 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: a popular movement and it has a base of black people. 916 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: So to align themselves they think that they can, you know, 917 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 1: allign themselves with black voters as well. Um, And I 918 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,799 Speaker 1: frowned upon that, and I don't agree with that. I 919 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: don't think that we should align ourselves with the Democratic 920 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: Party at all. That we should be independent, that we 921 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 1: should you know, fight for what we fight for. If 922 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party agrees with what we're doing, then great. 923 00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: The Republican Party agrees with some of the things that 924 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: we're doing, great, whoever agrees with what we're doing and 925 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: work wants to work for our same goals, that's good. 926 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 1: But we shouldn't allign ourselves with the Democratic Party or 927 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,440 Speaker 1: any party um to take advantage of us or just 928 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,240 Speaker 1: use us for for votes and not give us things 929 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,759 Speaker 1: that we need. So, in other words, black lives no 930 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:11,239 Speaker 1: matter the Democrats, black votes do definitely all right. So 931 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: if I can get you just your final thoughts, will 932 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,080 Speaker 1: race relations get worse and better over the next few years? 933 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,960 Speaker 1: Chief Cox? What are your what are your thoughts? Well, 934 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,880 Speaker 1: I'm prayerful and hopeful that they will get better in 935 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: the next uh several years. And it's all kind of 936 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 1: depending on the way President Biden leaves this country. Um, 937 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:34,319 Speaker 1: we lost a lot of ground in my mind with 938 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: the last administration and a lot of the rhetoric that 939 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: came out of the White House. And I think that 940 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: now is an opportunity in the next four years, hopefully 941 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,600 Speaker 1: and actually the next two years, because we know we 942 00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: don't have no idea what's gonna happen in the midterm elections. Um, 943 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: that we're leading the right way and people learn to 944 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,960 Speaker 1: love each other again. I mean, it's it's simple for me. 945 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,000 Speaker 1: I think right now our biggest issue is we don't 946 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:05,799 Speaker 1: communicate effectively and we're relying on guns to do our 947 00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:10,839 Speaker 1: communicating for us, and there's no real push to you know, 948 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,680 Speaker 1: I guess do something about the guns on the streets. 949 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,839 Speaker 1: So you know, we've got a long road ahead of us. 950 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: And I'm certainly for a gun ownership. I'm just for 951 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,520 Speaker 1: a responsible gun own the ship. And right now I'm 952 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,719 Speaker 1: seeing way too many homicides and way too many black 953 00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: on black killings and communities across this country. And uh, 954 00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,640 Speaker 1: until we can kind of rope that up wrote that 955 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: in Um, I just I'm just prayerful every day and 956 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,760 Speaker 1: every night that we learned to love each other again 957 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,799 Speaker 1: and respect each other again, because there's a lot of 958 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: lack of respect. And over the past four years, I 959 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: think I've encountered some conversations with my brother's on of 960 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: another race that I probably wouldn't have done before because 961 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,480 Speaker 1: I thinks sometimes people have become more emboldened and decided 962 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,680 Speaker 1: that they would, you know, make challenges that they would 963 00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: not have normally made. You know. So, yes, all right, Zelie, Yeah, 964 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 1: I definitely agree with um Clarence. UM. I do think 965 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:18,440 Speaker 1: that we may have some rough spots for a while 966 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,160 Speaker 1: before we get to like a broader tomorrow. UM. I 967 00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,920 Speaker 1: do have hope, especially with the youth. UM. They've been watching, 968 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: they've been learning, they've seen what was wrong, and they 969 00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,439 Speaker 1: have ideas of how to make things going forward. I'm 970 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,160 Speaker 1: also hopeful because with this conversation with Clarence kind of 971 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,680 Speaker 1: shows like maybe like five or ten years ago, UM, 972 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: a lot of police departments wouldn't have been open to 973 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:45,719 Speaker 1: the idea of you know, allocating money tours, um um, 974 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,640 Speaker 1: other initiatives to keep communities safe. But now it's like, 975 00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, there's other initiatives to keep community safe, then 976 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,560 Speaker 1: it's a no brainer now for us to fund so 977 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,600 Speaker 1: by continue to have these conversations and continue to have 978 00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,439 Speaker 1: these rough conversations you need if you disagree, is key 979 00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,279 Speaker 1: to moving forward. And I'm hopeful because all of us 980 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,720 Speaker 1: want to be loved, all of us wants to be accepted, 981 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,120 Speaker 1: all of us want to um live free. It's all 982 00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,240 Speaker 1: a matter of how do we come together and create 983 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,600 Speaker 1: the system, create this world where that could be possible. 984 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank Zeliamani and Clarence Cox the Third 985 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: again for a great interview. If you're enjoying the show, 986 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,320 Speaker 1: please leave us a review. Will you rate us with 987 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,160 Speaker 1: five stars on Apple Podcast. If you have any questions 988 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,120 Speaker 1: for me, please email me at out lout the Ginglish 989 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:28,799 Speaker 1: Street sixty and I'll try to answer them in our 990 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,760 Speaker 1: future episodes. And please sign up for my monthly newsletter 991 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,360 Speaker 1: at Ginglige three sixt dot com slash out Loud. You 992 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:36,800 Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor 993 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,560 Speaker 1: at Giano called Blow. If you're interested in learning more 994 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,520 Speaker 1: about my story, please pick up a copy of my 995 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,960 Speaker 1: bestselling book title Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win 996 00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,799 Speaker 1: Back the American City Liberalism Failed. Special Thanks to our 997 00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 1: producer John Cassio, We says You're Aaron Klingman and executive 998 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,200 Speaker 1: producers Debbie Myers and speaker New Gingridge, all part of 999 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,560 Speaker 1: the Ginglish to the sixty network