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Speaker 2: twenty twenty the roughing before the Stuff. Welcome to the
Speaker 2: Data Show. Everybody, Thank you so much for tunity in.
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming out live.
Speaker 4: At eleventh p m. Take a seat, let's do this thing.
Speaker 5: I'm Trevoranoa the Democratic presidential debate and A just moments ago,
Speaker 5: and we are coming to you live. That's right, we
Speaker 5: are live, people, and I'll prove it. The New York
Speaker 5: Knicks lost tonight. How could I possibly know that if
Speaker 5: we weren't live now, on a normal nights, the debates
Speaker 5: would be the only news anyone will be talking about.
Speaker 5: But since Trump became present, there has been no normal nights.
Speaker 5: So today we're going to be covering the debates, and
Speaker 5: we're gonna be covering the blockbuster impeachment hearing that rocked Washington,
Speaker 5: d C.
Speaker 3: So first up, let's get into it.
Speaker 5: Tonight was the fifth Democratic Debates and it took place
Speaker 5: down in Atlanta, Georgia, at Tyler Perry Studios, where they
Speaker 5: filmed numerous movies and TV shows, and I'll be honest,
Speaker 5: I'm just glad Joe Biden finally made it to the
Speaker 5: right sound stage because for a while today he was
Speaker 5: just wandering around in the background of other movies.
Speaker 3: It was really awkward.
Speaker 5: Medea was like, give me one of those famous massages.
Speaker 1: Why are you here?
Speaker 3: I'm tight as hell Joe Biden.
Speaker 5: Now, at the last debates in October, they had twelve
Speaker 5: Democrats crammed on stage. It was so tight people could
Speaker 5: barely move. But then Spirit Airlines was like, hey, that's
Speaker 5: our thing. So this time the Democrats scaled it back
Speaker 5: down to an even ten and the candidates were joined
Speaker 5: by four moderators, who, for the first time this campaign
Speaker 5: season were all women, which personally I didn't even notice. Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's amazing, but I didn't even notice because I don't
Speaker 5: see color.
Speaker 3: Now the major change, the.
Speaker 5: Major change from the last debate is the rise of
Speaker 5: Pete Budajes, right mayor of South Bend, Indiana and the
Speaker 5: only adult Michael Jackson would be into.
Speaker 3: Over the past few weeks, he.
Speaker 5: Has surged from the middle of the pack to take
Speaker 5: the lead in Iowa and New Hampshire. So now between Buddhajeg, Biden, Warren,
Speaker 5: and Bernie. This has become a four way race, and
Speaker 5: if you include Corey Booker, it's still a four way race.
Speaker 5: So with Buddhajet's writing and rising in the polls tonight,
Speaker 5: the moderates has asked him something a lot of people
Speaker 5: are wondering, Why should a teenage mayor from South Bend,
Speaker 5: Indiana become President of the United States.
Speaker 6: Mayor bootaj Edge, let's talk about your record as a candidate.
Speaker 7: Why should Democrats take the risk of betting on you in.
Speaker 8: Order to defeat this president. We need somebody who can
Speaker 8: go toe to toe, who actually comes from the kinds
Speaker 8: of communities that he's been appealing to. I don't talk
Speaker 8: a big game about helping the working class while helicoptering
Speaker 8: between golf courses with.
Speaker 4: My name on him.
Speaker 3: I don't even golf.
Speaker 8: As a matter of fact, I never thought I'd be
Speaker 8: on a Forbes magazine list, but they did one of
Speaker 8: all the candidates by wealth, and I am literally the
Speaker 8: least wealthy person on this stage.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Pete Budages maybe the poorest person on that stage.
Speaker 3: But Bernie was like, yes, but I look the poorest
Speaker 3: and that should cout for something.
Speaker 5: You know, it's actually funny how running for president is
Speaker 5: the only time people brag about how much money they
Speaker 5: don't have.
Speaker 3: Right, It's like they're all bizarro rappers.
Speaker 5: You know, started from the bottom, never left, started from
Speaker 5: the bottom, And my whole team is in the exact
Speaker 5: same place because there's been no upward mobidity for the
Speaker 5: last thirty forty years in this country.
Speaker 4: And I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 5: A lot of too nice debate sounded exactly like what
Speaker 5: we've heard in the previous four you know, Medicare for
Speaker 5: role versus a public option, pragmatism versus revolution, Joe Biden
Speaker 5: versus his own mouth. But one new thing we did
Speaker 5: see tonight with some brand new beefs like Elizabeth Warren
Speaker 5: versus Corey Booka on the wealth tax.
Speaker 9: I have proposed a two cent wealth tax. That is
Speaker 9: a tax for everybody who has more than fifty billion
Speaker 9: dollars in assets. Your first fifty billion is free and clear,
Speaker 9: but you're fifty billions and first dollar you got to
Speaker 9: pitch in two cents.
Speaker 10: I don't agree with the wealth tax the way that
Speaker 10: Elizabeth Warren puts it.
Speaker 9: The top one tenth of one percent that I want
Speaker 9: to say, pay two cents more. Phil paid three point
Speaker 9: two percent in America.
Speaker 10: The tax the way we're putting it forward right now,
Speaker 10: the wealth tax, I'm sorry, it's cumbersome.
Speaker 3: Has been tried by the nation's two.
Speaker 9: Cent wealth tax, and we can invest in an entire
Speaker 9: generation in the future.
Speaker 10: We Democrats also have to talk about how to grow
Speaker 10: wealth as well. When I stood in church recently and
Speaker 10: asked folks in the Black church, how many people here
Speaker 10: want to be entrepreneurs? Have the church raise their hands yeah?
Speaker 5: And one guy in the back was like, Nigga, wasn't entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: It's French for a businessman. Well, I don't want to
Speaker 3: be a French businessman. I want to be an American businessman.
Speaker 3: It's got a whole lot more to say.
Speaker 4: Why.
Speaker 5: So that was Warren and Booka arguing about wealth text.
Speaker 5: Then there was a beef that really came out of nowhere,
Speaker 5: Kamala Harris versus Telsey Gabbett.
Speaker 7: We have someone on the stage who is attempting to
Speaker 7: be the Democratic nominee for President of the United States, who,
Speaker 7: during the Obama administration, spent four years full time on
Speaker 7: Fox News criticizing President Obama budied up to Steve Bannon
Speaker 7: to get a meeting with Donald Trump in the Trump Tower.
Speaker 11: What Senator Harris is doing is unfortunately continuing to traffic
Speaker 11: in lies and smears and innuendos because she cannot challenge
Speaker 11: the substance of the argument that I'm making people.
Speaker 3: Please stop fighting, it's not worth it. Neither of you
Speaker 3: are going to be president.
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 5: That was the most intense argument I've seen in Atlanta
Speaker 5: that didn't involve Nane. That was really intense. I also
Speaker 5: love how they're doing it with smiles.
Speaker 3: In their faces.
Speaker 5: Ah well, the thing about you're someone to break your face.
Speaker 5: But please, please don't get me wrong, tonight wasn't all
Speaker 5: about beefs right. In fact, there was one moment between
Speaker 5: the candidates that was actually kind of sweet.
Speaker 8: First, let's just want to stick up for Tom. We
Speaker 8: have a broken campaign finance system, but Tom's been spending
Speaker 8: his own money fighting climate change. You can knock someone
Speaker 8: for having money and spending it in the right way
Speaker 8: my opinion.
Speaker 4: Thanks Andrew will.
Speaker 5: Problem ah Yang twenty twenty. Everyone gets a thousand dollars
Speaker 5: and the compliments. I love it like Andrew Yang.
Speaker 3: Is so nice.
Speaker 5: I bet he would have the best concession speech ever.
Speaker 5: He'd be like, I may not have won the presidency,
Speaker 5: but I won something more important, a friend.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Now, Just like in previous debates, one of the most
Speaker 5: awkward moments of the night came courtesy of the original
Speaker 5: gaff machine when he was talking about domestic violence.
Speaker 9: Joe Biden, no man has a right to raise a
Speaker 9: hand to a woman in anger other than in self defense, and.
Speaker 3: That's rarely ever occurs.
Speaker 9: And so we have to just change the culture, period
Speaker 9: and keep punching at it and punching at it and punching.
Speaker 3: Out there will be a big talkingly meaning it.
Speaker 12: Make it's a gigantic issue.
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: What are you doing? Joe?
Speaker 5: The only way he can recover from that is if
Speaker 5: he just starts making bad word choices his thing. You know,
Speaker 5: he just needs to dig deeper and just be like,
Speaker 5: we need to get right to the heart of the
Speaker 5: drug epidemic.
Speaker 3: I'm saying it.
Speaker 5: Deep in the veins of the drug problem.
Speaker 3: And when we do it, it's gonna feel so good.
Speaker 5: So the candidate once again spent two hours and not
Speaker 5: trying to show votes is what separated them from.
Speaker 3: The other people on the stage.
Speaker 5: But when it came to Trump, they were all trying
Speaker 5: to show that they were the same.
Speaker 9: We have a president who is not only a pathological liar,
Speaker 9: he is likely the most corrupt president in the modern
Speaker 9: history of America. Breath the Maler Report, all four hundred
Speaker 9: and forty two pages of it that showed how the
Speaker 9: president tried to obstruct justice.
Speaker 8: Sucking up to Vladimir Putin every.
Speaker 3: Minute of the day.
Speaker 8: The President had to confess in writing in court to
Speaker 8: illegally diverting charitable contributions that were supposed to go to veterans.
Speaker 7: First of all, we have a criminal living in the
Speaker 7: White House.
Speaker 3: A criminal in the White House. Someone needs to tell
Speaker 3: Donald Trump.
Speaker 5: I bet he was watching this at home terrified, like.
Speaker 3: Oh no, a criminal. I hope he doesn't steal all
Speaker 3: this stuff.
Speaker 4: I already know.
Speaker 5: But look, it was no surprise that at a democratic
Speaker 5: debate they were talking impeachment tonight, because you see, the
Speaker 5: biggest political story today was a blockbuster hearing in Congress
Speaker 5: where we heard testimony from Gordon Sonland, Trump's ambassador to
Speaker 5: the EU and Homer Simpson's body double he's the first
Speaker 5: witness to testify who spoke directly to President Trump about
Speaker 5: what he wanted from Ukraine, and today he admitted it.
Speaker 5: He admitted that, yes, Trump demanded a quid pro quote. Specifically,
Speaker 5: if Ukraine's president got dirt on Joe Biden, Trump would
Speaker 5: have a meeting with Zelensky in the White House.
Speaker 3: Which shows you.
Speaker 5: How bad Trump wanted dirt on Joe Biden, because usually
Speaker 5: Trump will do anything to get out of a meeting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one time he even called in a bumb threat.
Speaker 3: It was like, hello, White House, this is mister el Kaieda.
Speaker 5: I'm calling in a bumb threat between three and four
Speaker 5: pm in the conference room.
Speaker 3: But keep the doughnuts there.
Speaker 4: I'll eat them later.
Speaker 3: And here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Speaker 5: Not only did Sonland testify that Trump ordered a quid
Speaker 5: pro quo, he testified that basically everyone in the administration
Speaker 5: knew about it.
Speaker 3: Everyone Seriously, he threw everybody under the.
Speaker 5: Bus, Mike Mayo, Mike Pence, Mick Mulvaney, John Bolton, John
Speaker 5: Bolton's mustache, even John Bolton's mustache is mustache. But there's
Speaker 5: one man in particular that Somolond put at the center
Speaker 5: of the whole scandal, Rudy Giuliani.
Speaker 13: Secretary Perry, Ambassador Vulkar and I worked with mister Rudy
Speaker 13: Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the express direction of the
Speaker 13: President of the United States. We did not want to
Speaker 13: work with mister Guliani. We worked with mister Giuliani because
Speaker 13: the President directed us to do so. President Trump directed
Speaker 13: us to quote talk with Rudy. Let me say again,
Speaker 13: we weren't happy with the President's directive to talk with Rudy.
Speaker 13: We did not want to involve mister Julian.
Speaker 5: Oh God, damn. Nobody wanted to work with Rudy Giuliani.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: Sunland was talking about Rudy like he was like that
Speaker 5: weird kid that your mom made you play with. Remember
Speaker 5: that kid? Yeah, and then that kid willys get you
Speaker 5: in trouble, and you'd be like, Mom, I didn't want
Speaker 5: to play with Rudy in the first place, you said
Speaker 5: I have to. Then he wanted to microwave a dead pigeon.
Speaker 3: That's not my fault, Like I would have loved to
Speaker 3: be a fly on the wall.
Speaker 5: When Rudy Giuliani watched that testimony, Although if there was
Speaker 5: a fly on Rudy's wall.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure he eats it.
Speaker 5: So maybe not exactly, but but you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean.
Speaker 5: So today's hearing was very bad for President Trump, so
Speaker 5: much so that he came out of the White House
Speaker 5: before the hearing was even over to defend himself.
Speaker 3: And I gotta say he seemed a little shook.
Speaker 12: Here's the quick comment on what's going on in terms
Speaker 12: of testimony with Ambassador Silence. And I just noticed one thing,
Speaker 12: and I would say that means it's all over. What
Speaker 12: do you want from Ukraine? He asks me, screaming, what
Speaker 12: do you want from Ukraine? What do you want from Ukraine?
Speaker 12: I keep clearing all these different ideas and theories.
Speaker 4: What do you want? What do you want? And now
Speaker 4: here's my response that he gave. Just gag. Ready, you
Speaker 4: have the cameras rolling. I want nothing. That's what I
Speaker 4: want from Ukraine. That's what I said. I want nothing.
Speaker 3: What is Trump doing?
Speaker 5: That was one of the least presidential things I've ever seen.
Speaker 5: He just looked like that crazy dude in the neighborhood
Speaker 5: is yelling at everybody on his front lawn. If I
Speaker 5: find out who's been taking my newspaper. I swear to
Speaker 5: God like Trump is the only president to bring down
Speaker 5: the property value around the White House.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: You can see even the white people next door came.
Speaker 3: Out to see what the commotion, of course all about.
Speaker 3: You can see in their.
Speaker 5: Faces like, oh my god, Donald is out there again,
Speaker 5: Like I don't know, I missed that lovely black family
Speaker 5: who used to live here.
Speaker 3: This this guy is a problems. Here's a problem.
Speaker 5: And you realize the worst part is that Trump was
Speaker 5: reading all of that from notes, Like that wasn't Trump freestatic,
Speaker 5: that was Trump prepared. Now, look, I'm no trained lawyer.
Speaker 5: I'm no trained lawyer, but I feel like innocent people
Speaker 5: don't need notes to remind themselves that they're innocent. Like
Speaker 5: you never see defendants in a courtroom, like can I
Speaker 5: just say your ana, I did not murder my wife.
Speaker 5: So look, this didn't make Trump look good or innocence.
Speaker 5: In fact, he said the same lines so many times
Speaker 5: in so many different ways. It almost felt like he
Speaker 5: wasn't be presidential. It felt like Trump was auditioning to
Speaker 5: play the character president who is innocent.
Speaker 4: Ready, you have the.
Speaker 12: Camera's rolling, What do you want from your brain? What
Speaker 12: do you want from your brain? What do you want
Speaker 12: from your brain? I keep hearing all these different ideas
Speaker 12: and theories.
Speaker 4: What do you want? What do you want? What do
Speaker 4: you want? What do you want? I hear all these theories.
Speaker 4: What do you want? Right?
Speaker 6: I want nothing? I want nothing. I want nothing. I
Speaker 6: want nothing. I want no quid pro quo. I want
Speaker 6: no quid pro quo. I want nothing. I want nothing.
Speaker 6: I want nothing. Thank you, folks.
Speaker 3: I think he nailed the people. He's getting the job.
Speaker 4: He'll be right back.
Speaker 13: Talk about for the day show.
Speaker 5: As we said earlier, tonight's debate was held at Tyler
Speaker 5: Perry's studios in Atlanta, a choice, some believe is about
Speaker 5: sending a message to a very specific.
Speaker 3: Group of voters.
Speaker 5: So we sent Roywood Junior down to Atlanta to investigates.
Speaker 1: Atlanta, the capital of Georgia and blackness. Democrats are here
Speaker 1: to appeal to black voters. But what do black voters want?
Speaker 1: I'm here to find out the first waffle house as
Speaker 1: the Democrats prepare for the debate at Tyler Perry's gated community.
Speaker 1: That's some of the panel of voters, all with one
Speaker 1: thing in common, all right, who voted for Obama? In
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, I was too young. So which candidate do
Speaker 1: you think best understands the needs of the black voter?
Speaker 2: I think Elizabeth Warren.
Speaker 3: Bernie, I want to go Bernie, Chris.
Speaker 1: Who do you think that understands the needs of the
Speaker 1: black voter? Donald Trump?
Speaker 4: Huh?
Speaker 1: Explain some of.
Speaker 2: The stuff I've heard he's already doing is like present refs.
Speaker 2: He's been hanging around black people as long as I
Speaker 2: can remember.
Speaker 10: They loved him Philly ran for president as a Republican.
Speaker 4: Trump was the man.
Speaker 1: Raise your hand if you remember when Donald Trump was
Speaker 1: the man.
Speaker 4: The man as in the man but not the man.
Speaker 10: He wouldn't let.
Speaker 14: Black people into his apartment.
Speaker 2: Roy know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he's talking about, but maybe some
Speaker 1: word association will show us what they think of the
Speaker 1: other candidates.
Speaker 3: Joe Biden gas touching women?
Speaker 1: Alright, so nothing positive? Okay, next candidate, Okay, serve as
Speaker 1: a leader. It thinks well on your feet. Warren is
Speaker 1: discussed giving black people reparations? Is that a campaign promise
Speaker 1: you believe she could fulfill?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No, no. Instead of calling it reparations, what if they
Speaker 1: called it back pay?
Speaker 3: No, that sounds even worse.
Speaker 1: Al right, next candidate, that's the man right now.
Speaker 15: Ran he was with Martin Luther King, but uh he
Speaker 15: just had a heart attime.
Speaker 1: So no, somebody you love Bernie Jessica im cause.
Speaker 3: He gonna walk it like he talking.
Speaker 1: He gonna come. He gonna be out there with us
Speaker 1: if he can. If he can, if he's na, I'll.
Speaker 4: Put him in a wheelchair.
Speaker 3: I'll be right there behind Thom.
Speaker 1: What do we feel about Pete Boudhagic. Oh, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: that's not Pete Bootage, that's theius. But just look you
Speaker 1: can see the similarities.
Speaker 14: Nice show he got the ooh his hairline is like
Speaker 14: the bread they could you know, and these siblings.
Speaker 1: But he's polling terribly with black people right now.
Speaker 3: Exactly we don't know him.
Speaker 1: He went up to Harlem, sit down with our shop
Speaker 1: and has some soul food at Sylvia's. Is that pandering
Speaker 1: or outreach? What did he order?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 3: So if you saw him.
Speaker 1: Crumbla the corn beard on top of the Bran's real, right,
Speaker 1: I mighta be you, you might be alright? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris police.
Speaker 3: There there's a lot of people who look like me
Speaker 3: locked up under her watch.
Speaker 1: So Kamala's campaign released a video of her dancing to
Speaker 1: Cardi b that's Pandora. So then what is Kamala supposed
Speaker 1: to do when you out and you black and a
Speaker 1: band plays? Do you not do a little dance while
Speaker 1: you walking?
Speaker 2: Along?
Speaker 3: With the second line, I think we're harder on the black.
Speaker 5: Candidates, to be honest, I think it's difficult for for
Speaker 5: black people like her, even even Corey, to to be
Speaker 5: themselves when the spotlight is on them.
Speaker 1: Corey Booker told Joe Biden that he diffing in the
Speaker 1: kool aid and don't know the flavor. How did that
Speaker 1: make you feel as a black person?
Speaker 14: Corny?
Speaker 3: I know we we've all said something like that.
Speaker 14: Oh yeah, he allowed, He just said it in a
Speaker 14: corny way.
Speaker 1: Is their behavioral expectation on black candidates that's not put
Speaker 1: on white candidates?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, Why do you think that is? For black voters?
Speaker 1: Why do you think we do that?
Speaker 14: Because we see ourselves in them, and if they're acting
Speaker 14: a certain way, then we're like mm no.
Speaker 1: Mm, white people are watching. Don't act like that exactly.
Speaker 14: We expect them to represent all the different types of
Speaker 14: flex the spectrum.
Speaker 1: Yes, so we've talked about a lot of stuff tonight.
Speaker 1: Having said all of that about all of the Democratic candidates,
Speaker 1: how many of you all still think Trump will win
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty? Do you honestly think that any of
Speaker 1: these Democrats could beat Trump if they've.
Speaker 3: All rallied for one. There's so many people running.
Speaker 1: So we all need to agree on who that one
Speaker 1: candidate is and then all the other candidate support them.
Speaker 1: Tell me who's that candidate.
Speaker 10: Trump twenty twenty?
Speaker 1: Baby, hold on, hold on, I said, And there's a
Speaker 1: lesson for Democrats. You can't win the black vote by pandering,
Speaker 1: because black people are as complex as any other voter base.
Speaker 1: If you want our trust, make promises you can keep
Speaker 1: walk it like you talk it, and above all, keep
Speaker 1: the faith. Father, God, we call on you right now
Speaker 1: to pray for Chris closure eyes. We're praying. We ask
Speaker 1: you for the God to help Christopher Lord if we
Speaker 1: respect Christs of voter load.
Speaker 15: But we're just hope us check engine like come on
Speaker 15: and November Lord on the legendary. It doesn't make sure
Speaker 15: that his truck does not start leaving many other bleasures.
Speaker 1: We asked the old name gang got name. Amen's good talk,
Speaker 1: good talking to y'all. Good time.
Speaker 16: Where would you and everybody, We'll be right back. Welcome
Speaker 16: back to the Daily Show.
Speaker 5: My guest tonight is an MSNBC anchor, host of the
Speaker 5: Latina to Latina podcast and author of the new book
Speaker 5: The Likability Trap. Please welcome, Alicia. I'm Menendez.
Speaker 3: So this book, I.
Speaker 5: Feel speaks perfectly to what we are subconsciously deal with
Speaker 5: in every single debate.
Speaker 3: The Likability Trap.
Speaker 5: How do you become likable as a candidate whilst at
Speaker 5: the same time still being yourself as a person.
Speaker 3: Why is that so difficult to achieve?
Speaker 17: It's difficult to achieve across the board because likability is
Speaker 17: so wildly subjective, but it's particularly challenging for women. If
Speaker 17: you're a woman who strives to lead, you are told one.
Speaker 3: Of two things.
Speaker 17: You're either told you're too much, too assertive, too aggressive,
Speaker 17: you need to tone it down. Or you're told you're
Speaker 17: not enough. You don't take up enough space, you don't
Speaker 17: take up enough oxygen, you don't have what it takes
Speaker 17: to lead. So women are told they can either be
Speaker 17: likable or they can be a leader, but there's almost
Speaker 17: no way for them to be both. And when you
Speaker 17: talk about women candidates. What makes that so complicated is
Speaker 17: that voters will vote for a man candidate even if
Speaker 17: they don't like him, so long as they think he's competent.
Speaker 17: For women candidates, they have to clear both hurdles. Voters
Speaker 17: have to like them and they have to believe that
Speaker 17: they're competent.
Speaker 5: It's interesting because in this race specifically, a lot of
Speaker 5: media coverage has been geared towards discussing Elizabeth Warren's likability.
Speaker 5: You know, whereas people before, like let's say, when Trump
Speaker 5: was running, they said, well, you know, I don't like him,
Speaker 5: but I think you can get the job done, and
Speaker 5: that was a common thread that went through the election.
Speaker 5: In the book, you say something that's really interesting you
Speaker 5: talk about Hillary Clinton in particular, where you know, you
Speaker 5: talk about something that I didn't really pay attention to,
Speaker 5: and that was when she was just doing.
Speaker 17: It for the country she a secretary of State.
Speaker 5: When she was secretary of State, its people liked her,
Speaker 5: independence like to her, Republicans liked her, Democrats liked her.
Speaker 5: And then immediately when she ran, people perceived it as
Speaker 5: now she was doing it for herself, and her likability dropped.
Speaker 17: Why do you think that is well with men. We
Speaker 17: presume that it's in men's nature to want power and
Speaker 17: to grab for power. When women do that, it violates
Speaker 17: this expectation we have of women that they are communal,
Speaker 17: that they'll act communally. I mean there's an irony in that, right,
Speaker 17: which is most women run for office because they want
Speaker 17: to do something that benefits their community at large. But
Speaker 17: they're seen as it being a power grab, right because
Speaker 17: it's their name at the top of a ticket, and
Speaker 17: so it's seen as this singular act. And so just
Speaker 17: the act of saying I am a woman and I
Speaker 17: believe that I am worthy of power immediately makes a
Speaker 17: woman less likable. Chris Quinn, who'd run for the mayor
Speaker 17: of New York, said to me, the day you declare
Speaker 17: you have a new negative, that's.
Speaker 5: An interesting place to be in as a woman who
Speaker 5: is a candidate, because you're in a race where people
Speaker 5: are looking at your likability, but then they also looking
Speaker 5: at your track record, which as you've seen, you know,
Speaker 5: people spoke about on the debate tonight. Ammy clobershaw I said, Look,
Speaker 5: I think there is a double stand for how much
Speaker 5: you have to have achieved as a woman to be
Speaker 5: on the stage, whereas the men can just come in
Speaker 5: with like, I have a few good ideas, and this
Speaker 5: is why I think I should be here.
Speaker 3: When you look at the trap, how.
Speaker 5: Do you think people can escape the trap? How can
Speaker 5: a woman be likable if that is something that someone
Speaker 5: needs to strive towards but then still achieve or be
Speaker 5: the best, or be the leader, etc.
Speaker 17: You are doing such a good job of articulating how
Speaker 17: complicated this is. And women have been given two paths right.
Speaker 17: We've either been told we can do this gender correcting
Speaker 17: performance where we like sit in our chairs and are
Speaker 17: cautious about how we use our hands and how we
Speaker 17: use our voice, or we can just let it go.
Speaker 17: We can just choose not to care about likability. I
Speaker 17: don't think either of those paths work right, because if
Speaker 17: you do the first one, then you put the responsibility
Speaker 17: of likability back on women. If you do the latter,
Speaker 17: you don't you're not being honest about how important likability
Speaker 17: really is. And what I think we need to do
Speaker 17: is push back on likability as what it really is,
Speaker 17: a cover for bias, and say enough with it, once
Speaker 17: and for all.
Speaker 5: It's a powerful stance to make, and you make a
Speaker 5: good pace for it in the book, Thank you so
Speaker 5: much for joining us on the show. A really fascinating
Speaker 5: look into the world of likability, The Likability Trap, is
Speaker 5: available now.
Speaker 3: Alicia m and end As Everybody. We'll be right back.
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