1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for our own commander 4 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: in chief production wise, mister Max Williams. 5 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 2: Hodda, what's the big boss? Yea, hey you guys, I 6 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: wrote a campaign song. You want to hear it? Hell, 7 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: let's hear it. 8 00:00:52,840 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 3: He's the man man who is named John Tyler and 9 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 3: Jewish presidents, but we may. 10 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: That's all. I think it's there. I think it's great. 11 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 4: No, I think if it just kind of goes for 12 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 4: a little bit and stops and never achieves anything in 13 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 4: the song, it's very adequate to describe John Tyler. 14 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: Well, Max, though, I feel like that's a that's a 15 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: bit judgy. We're in the brainstorming portion of the songwriting. 16 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: I am Ben, you are Noll, and we are here, 17 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: indeed to explore the life and time of John Tyler, 18 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: who is unanimously praised as a person who is at 19 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: one point president. 20 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: So it took the canoe and Tyler too, how about that? 21 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Also, old Kindercoll, You know, debatable etymology of the world's 22 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: most popular word, which is okay, that's nuts. We could 23 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: I want to doogy so I'm sort of an all 24 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: right kind of guy. I want to do an etymology show, 25 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: so bad. 26 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: Just if you could just do a series, man, who 27 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: knew you? Anyway, we already got a show. Yeah. 28 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny because people are people are 29 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: always attempting to rank the best presidents, and it's a 30 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: small sample size. There aren't that many presidents yet because 31 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: the United States is a relatively young country in the 32 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: grand scheme of things. But as our research associate, also 33 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: named Max Williams, points out at the very top of 34 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: our show today, John Tyler is not going to be 35 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: in the top ten best president's list anywhere. 36 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 5: Well, unless you're talking about the top ten forgettable presidents 37 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 5: from Time magazine. 38 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where it's going. 39 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: Yeah he makes that he makes that list. 40 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: I forgot about that list. 41 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he makes that list with a plum. 42 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 5: He's what you might call a bit of a do nothing, 43 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 5: sort of an outfielder type president. 44 00:02:58,160 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: Okay, let me let me rephrase that. 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 5: I don't mean to mili professional outfielders, but you know, 46 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 5: I was made an outfielder in Little league. 47 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: That's usually where they put the turds. You know, they 48 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: don't really do anything. 49 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 4: I was an outfield as well, so I got told, yeah, 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 4: it gets hit to you in right field, Max, They're 51 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 4: they're going to reach base no matter what your hand. 52 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: I was. 53 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: I was left field and it was awesome. I learned 54 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: a lot in ecology. Yeah, I learned a lot about 55 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: the local ecology of the ballfield. 56 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: And you know, there's. 57 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: An argument that John Tyler was maybe that way. He 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: did earn his vice presidency based almost entirely on the 59 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: word of mouth campaign slogan tip a Canoe and Tyler too. 60 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: And when William Henry Harrison passed away, folks started calling 61 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: Tyler his accidency. 62 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, even in the little jingle, 63 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 5: he's an afterthought. But any inside, and know what the 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 5: hell Tip a Canoe comes from? What kind of nickname 65 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 5: is that I've never fully understood. I'm sure a cursory 66 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 5: Google would answer the question, but I prefer to ask 67 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 5: it in an analog fashion. 68 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 4: It was a battle that William Henry Harrison had fought 69 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 4: against a local native tribal and you know one of 70 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 4: these things where they massacred like hundreds of. 71 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 5: Natives, Digitople killer yeah, exactly. 72 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 4: Let's put that in the slogan that was a winning 73 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 4: issue in eighteen forty. 74 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 2: Let's just say, yeah, it sure was. 75 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of ridiculous things about John Tyler. 76 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: He was the first president in history to become president 77 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: without a general election to that position. His own party 78 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: also really didn't like him, sort of the way that 79 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party a few decades back didn't care for 80 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: Ralph Nader, and mostly his own party thought he was 81 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: too heavy with the vetos. They thought he had a 82 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: lead foot for the vetos, and eventually almost everybody, everybody 83 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: except for one person in his presidential cabinet resigned. For 84 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: any fans of Bill Clinton, Tyler was the first president 85 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: to have articles of impeachment filed against him, and they 86 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: did not come from his political opponents. They came from 87 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: his own party. Wow, it'll be your own people. 88 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: A bit of an encomposition. 89 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 5: He also annexed Texas, which is a bit of a 90 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 5: move right. 91 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, he really did, he did that thing, He annexed Texas. 92 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Af However, that's not even the most ridiculous nor especially 93 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: notable stuff about the guy. This episode is about something 94 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: much more bizarre, and so maybe we open it up 95 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: by learning a little bit more about John Tyler before 96 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: he becomes potus. 97 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, he was born with a spoon made of 98 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 5: some precious metal firmly in his mouth. Can't speak to 99 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 5: the actual medal, but definitely a bit of a one 100 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 5: percenter throwing off some serious landed gentry vibes. He led 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 5: a life that kind of blazed the trail towards this 102 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 5: level of political influence. There's a quote from William Freeling 103 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 5: in his biography of John Tyler called Life Before the 104 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 5: Presidency where he said John Tyler's rise to the highest 105 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 5: office in the nation signaled the last gasp of old 106 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 5: Virginia aristocracy in the White House. So maybe that's good 107 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 5: that it was the last gasp, because it does feel 108 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 5: like he was a bit of an incompetent to some degree, 109 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 5: and that usually happens when things are not a meritocracy 110 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 5: rather but a what do you call that cacristocracy? Sure, 111 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 5: just political dynasties and just kind of like these certain 112 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 5: colleges and certain types of social circles that lead to 113 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 5: folks pursuing these types of offices, and it's not necessarily 114 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 5: that they actually their hearts and minds are in the 115 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 5: right place. 116 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, So there is an oligarchical, heavily hierarchical nature to this. 117 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: His family is old, old, old for Americans, at least 118 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: they go back to the sixteen fifties. And so this 119 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: guy has a weird coincidence in retrospect. His buddy William 120 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: Henry Harrison was born in that same county, and both 121 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: of their fathers at one point served as governors of Virginia. 122 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: So John the Elder, John Tyler's dad, the President's dad, 123 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: and Mary Armistead Tyler raised eight kids, and they raised 124 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: them in that narrow, oligarchical way. You are meant to 125 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: be the upper class. John Tyler, by the way, was 126 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: a homie of Thomas Jefferson, who would later also be 127 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: famous in American history, and John Tyler the Patriarch. He 128 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: owned a tobacco plantation, and he owned a lot of 129 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: enslaved people, dozens of enslaved people. When he wasn't enslaving people, 130 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: he was also a judge at the US Circuit Court 131 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: there in Richmond. 132 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 5: Wow, he was, as you might imagine, a big fan 133 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: of states rights, but not human rights, well exactly, but 134 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 5: states rights. I don't know that seems to be the 135 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 5: rally and cry in these days of the folks who ended. 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 2: Up on the wrong side of history. I mean it's 137 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: hardcore loss cause narrative, states rights. That's right, that's. 138 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 5: Right, And I mean, you know, look at it, looking 139 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 5: at it now through a modern lens, I think there 140 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,719 Speaker 5: are obviously certain things that are better determined on a 141 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 5: state level rather than like a broad strokes approach federal stuff. 142 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 5: But I mean, in general, this is like a dog 143 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 5: whistle the states right stuff at the time, For like. 144 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: We want to keep slaves. 145 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: He was mad about the Constitution. The President's dad was 146 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: mad that the Constitution was going to be a thing. 147 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: He was worried it might give the hoi polloi the 148 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: proletariat rights that he thought should be preserved for the 149 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: upper echalons of society. 150 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 5: So not only did he want to hold on to 151 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 5: with an iron fist, his you know, human capital, his slaves, 152 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 5: but he also wanted to disempower as much as possible 153 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 5: anybody that he saw as beneath him. 154 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: I bet he would have a lively conversation about whether 155 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: or not the Irish were fully human. 156 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 2: Ways. 157 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, so John obviously grew up surrounded by this kind 158 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 5: of talk. And when he was just seven, his mom, 159 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 5: who I'm presuming was the good influence, you know, the 160 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 5: better angel, passed away from a stroke. 161 00:09:59,040 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: Probably not. 162 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 5: She was terrible too, who knows. I'm just trying to 163 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 5: editorialize year a little bit. But he went to local schools, 164 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 5: as was the custom. At the age of twelve, he 165 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 5: entered a I guess what you would call like a 166 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 5: prep school, but this was a division of the College 167 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 5: of William and Mary, which I think is still very 168 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 5: much a well regarded university. 169 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 2: Oldest college in the United States. 170 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: Again, and they're still doing good work. 171 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 172 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: He So he goes to College of William and Mary 173 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: and eventually he graduates when he's only seventeen. It's eighteen 174 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: oh seven. Now he gets admitted to the Virginia bar 175 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: in eighteen oh nine. The same year his father, famously 176 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: a man of the people, becomes the governor of Virginia. 177 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: So he and his dad, his power familius, moved to Richmond, 178 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: and of course you got connections, you got nepotism, you 179 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: got networking. He immediately gets a job. John Tyler, the 180 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: younger call him junior in this why not it'll get confusing. 181 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 4: We definitely are going to have more John Tyler's than 182 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 4: we don't to do with this episode. 183 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: It's gonna be like a Gabriel Garcia Marquez novel. Shout 184 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: out one hundred years of Solitude, all right. So anyway, 185 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,599 Speaker 1: he gets this job. The nation's first attorney general is 186 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: a dude named Edmund Randolph, and he hires John Tyler 187 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: the younger, quick, fast, and in a hurry. And immediately 188 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: everybody says, guys, he doesn't just want to be a lawyer. 189 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: He wants to enter the world of politics. 190 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 191 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 5: I mean again, that's sort of like the what you 192 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 5: shoot for if you want to go beyond lawyer. 193 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: That's sort of the prerequisite, right. 194 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 5: It seems like most of the folks that enter civil 195 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 5: service quote unquote do have some sort of background in 196 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 5: the law, or at least at the levels of that 197 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 5: service that allows you to kind of feather your nest 198 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 5: and the nests of your old money cronies. 199 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it came to pass that after just 200 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: two years at the law firm, Tyler uses his boss's 201 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: connections to get a seat in state government. He joins 202 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: the Virginia House of Delegates, he is twenty one years old. 203 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: And then immediately he leads a campaign to I guess, 204 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: sort of admonish or shame other legislators who supported the 205 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: Bank of the United States. And he said, this is 206 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: too much power, it's too much nationalism. We are all 207 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: about states' rights. And unfortunately, you know, his father passed 208 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: away at this time, and so Tyler inherited a lot 209 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: of the estate, including enslaved people. 210 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: That's right, he inherited. 211 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 5: Also, it seems his father's ideas about states rights and 212 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 5: also about holding slaves. He had a weird thing that 213 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 5: he did where he wanted to outlaw slave trade in 214 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 5: the district of Columbia, but opposed abolishing it without the 215 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 5: consent of Maryland and Virginia. 216 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: Kind of a half measures behind them, you know. And 217 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: and also the whole time, you guys, I'm sure have 218 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: we've all heard the myth about the seventh son of 219 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: a seventh son. I have a cousin like that, and 220 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: he's insufferable. I hope you're listening. And so this so 221 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: Tyler is he comes from a family of eight children. 222 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: He himself is going to go on and have seven children. 223 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: They're they're doing a lot reproduction wise and his wife, 224 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: Letitia Christian she is more of an introvert, and she's 225 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: more of a homemaker and so as as she's raising 226 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: these seven kids, as her husband is making all sorts 227 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: of policy that will affect people for generations, he's just 228 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: kind of not at home. Actually, it's like logistically interesting 229 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: that they had seven kids. 230 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like he's like a you're like one of 231 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 5: those cops. It's always on the case. You know, I can't. 232 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 5: I can't come home, Honey, I can't. I won't be 233 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 5: home for dinner tonight. I got to catch the bad guys. 234 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. 235 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 5: I've been rewatching The Shield, which I think is a 236 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 5: really great show that really holds up with Michael Chickliss. 237 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 5: He's in a similar situation. Totally bad guy, different flavor 238 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 5: of bad than John Tyler. But yeah, I mean he 239 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 5: really is well for better or for worse. Spending a 240 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 5: lot of time at the office. One would hope for 241 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 5: better that he would become like better at his job, 242 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 5: but it would seem not. 243 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: It would seem not, so he just maybe didn't want 244 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: to go home. 245 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: He also liked the wheeling. He liked the dealing, you know, 246 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: I love that you're pointing out his odd stance on DC, 247 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: you know, in Maryland and Virginia being part of that. 248 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: He also was voting against tariffs, and then he voted 249 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: against South Carolina trying to nullify terrorists. 250 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: He was just sort of he. 251 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: Was one of those. He wasn't a yes and dude. 252 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: He was a no but dude, an obstructivist, and he 253 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: appears to have had some crises of conscience. In eighteen 254 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: thirty six, the Senate asked him to change his vote 255 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: on some resolutions that were censoring President Jackson for removing 256 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: money from the Bank of the United States. And they said, 257 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: reverse your vote. Yeah, they said, revers your vote, John, 258 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: And he said I will not, and they said yeah, 259 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: you should though, and he said I quit. So he 260 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: quit the Senate, one of the most prestigious jobs in 261 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: the United States then and today. 262 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: Well, yes, yes, that's right. 263 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 5: Whether he knew it or not, though it would seem 264 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 5: that dying on this particular hill was a positive for 265 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 5: him and earned him some street crowd with the opposing party, 266 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 5: the Whig Party, which in the year eighteen forty shot 267 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 5: him over a sweet nomination for Vice president in the 268 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 5: hopes that his southern charms and Wiles might attract some 269 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 5: of that voter block. 270 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about it's all about unifying that voting 271 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: block right, getting as many people as possible to vote 272 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: for your ticket. We might not ordinarily like this president, 273 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: but we do love the VP. We don't like this 274 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: VP necessarily, but it's an acceptable compromise because we love 275 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: the president. 276 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 2: And this works. 277 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: Harrison and Tyler defeat Martin Van Buren and his vice president, 278 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: Richard M. Johnson. I gotta tell you too, it's it's 279 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: endlessly funny to me when you meet presidential history buffs. 280 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: Max is one. I'm one as well. Most of us 281 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: don't know the vice presidents. I'm just gonna be honest, 282 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: we just don't know. 283 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: Max. 284 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: You can name all the presidents, as can I, but 285 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: can you name all the vice presidents? 286 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: Oh? Definitely not. 287 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 4: I mean there's so many of these turrets that were 288 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 4: just so forgettable. And I mean, here's the thing. It's important. 289 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 1: Ben. 290 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: You know this too. 291 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 4: The majority, like, especially pre nineteen hundred, most presidents were 292 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 4: just like. 293 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 2: They didn't do anything. 294 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: A lot of these guys did nothing, and so they're 295 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 4: pretty forgettable, and thus their vice presidents are very forgata, 296 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 4: especially once get into the Gilded Age, because they're just 297 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 4: changing out vps all the time because they're always getting 298 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 4: charged with some sort of corruption charge, especially grant vps. 299 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 4: Grants VP's changed. 300 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 2: It a lot. Yeah. 301 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: Also, let's say the quiet part out loud. For a 302 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: lot of early American history, a lot of these pos 303 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: peticians were kind of drunk. 304 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 5: Oh so drunk shot mad men rules, but like even 305 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 5: even more so. Yeah, I mean, we we've seen George 306 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 5: Washington's agnog recipe. Those guys were blasted. 307 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 4: Mad Men would look at these dudes and say, calm down, guys, 308 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 4: It's it's only eleven am. 309 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 310 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: Breaks, So we also know that slogan Typicalanoe and Tyler 311 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: too because of the cadence and the rhyming. Uh it 312 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: it became contagious in the American zeitgeist. Uh this does 313 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: refer to this river in Indiana where Harrison massacred Shawning population. 314 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: And then you know, Harrison is probably most famous for 315 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: dying a month into becoming president. No one knew what 316 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: to do. This was and I'm not proud of it, folks, 317 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: unprecedented long The Constitution didn't say anything about it. No 318 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: one had any idea, They said, what happens when the 319 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: president dies? Does the vice president automatically get the job? 320 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: Or are they just sort of the substitute teacher for 321 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: a while. 322 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. 323 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 5: It's sort of like we see a lot of flaws 324 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 5: in our government and the way things are run when 325 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 5: we start to realize that oftentimes things are just kind 326 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 5: of a product of decorum in sort of a sense 327 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 5: of like tradition, I guess. And when you have folks 328 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 5: that pay that no attention and just you know, crap 329 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 5: all over it like we've seen in recent times, you 330 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 5: realize there's no actual laws backing up a lot of 331 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 5: these things. It's just kind of the way things have 332 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 5: been done, or a situation that has yet to present itself. 333 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You cannot predict everything. And because of this, 334 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: Tyler's opponents, folks like John Quincy Adams start calling him 335 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 1: his accidency. You know, like, you didn't earn your spot here. 336 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: No one really voted for you, bro, We all know 337 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: how vice presidents work. Anyway, Tyler said, forget you guys, 338 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm the president. I was next in line. Moves into 339 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: the White House and nobody manages to successfully overturn that decision. 340 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: While he's there, he stays old school. He goes back 341 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: to his Richmond days. Someone tries to establish a national 342 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: bank twice, and he vetos at both times. That's when 343 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: everybody from his cabinet except for one guy, resigns. 344 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 5: Guys like Vito Corleone over here. Am I right, you 345 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 5: are correct sir, I'm sorry, little drum kit. So obviously 346 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 5: we can understand the decision of Tyler's cabinet now. And 347 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 5: they're like, hey, we came up because we all liked 348 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: our boss, and a month later he died. 349 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: We did not agree with you. We did not sign 350 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: up for this job. The only guy who stays is 351 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: Secretary of State Daniel Webster, which could be an episode 352 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: of his own anyway. Two days later, after everybody resigns, 353 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: the congressional reps in the Whig Party say, also, screw you, buddy, 354 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: we are not fans of Johnny t Well. 355 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 5: You know we know that the president. While they are 356 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 5: bestowed with numerous unilateral powers, there is a little something 357 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 5: that seems to also kind of work, based more on 358 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 5: decorum than anything called checks and balances that does require 359 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 5: you to have some support from other wings of the government. 360 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 2: They're obviously the veto. 361 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 5: Thing is very unilateral, but if you don't have any 362 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 5: support that, it's also going to be really hard for 363 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 5: you to push through any of your policies, of which 364 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 5: it seems many of his were based in those southern 365 00:21:54,280 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 5: ways that his papa kind of hipped into growing up. 366 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: This the excellent points you've made here. His administration does 367 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,640 Speaker 1: manage to get stuff done. They reorganized the Navy, they 368 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: begin the United States Weather Bureau, thank you for that. 369 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: They end a war in Florida, the Second Seminole War 370 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: it's called. And then they put down they put down 371 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: a rebellion in Rhode Island. Now, I know we don't 372 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: all think of Rhode Island as the seat of secessionism 373 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 1: these days, but you know, in eighteen forty two it 374 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: was a very different place, and they maintained order. 375 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 5: Now, but taken as a list of accomplishments we just read, 376 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 5: that doesn't seem too terribly shabby, you know, especially given 377 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 5: that the deck was stacked against him. Why do people 378 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 5: hate this guy so much? I imagine we're going to 379 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 5: get to that. 380 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: That's part of it. 381 00:22:54,440 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: I think history doesn't look back kindly on the narchical 382 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: aspect of Tyler's ideology, and they don't like the racism 383 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be. 384 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,679 Speaker 2: That's sure, that people. 385 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 5: It's just surprising to me that despite having very little 386 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 5: support from his party and from the legislature, that he 387 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 5: was able to get so much done. I mean, in 388 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 5: modern time, we've certainly seen presidents that were absolutely hamstrung 389 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 5: by activist kind of you know, behavior from the opposing party, 390 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 5: just trying to hold up every bit of an agenda 391 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 5: as possible just to make the president look bad. I'm 392 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 5: just wondering if maybe things were a little differently and 393 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 5: he was able to operate a little more unilaterally or 394 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 5: like in a kingly fashion. 395 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 4: I mean, I think an important note about this period 396 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 4: of time is to understand what the Whig Party was, 397 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 4: which was we don't like Andrew Jackson and nothing more 398 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 4: than that. 399 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: That was it. 400 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 4: His whole thing was he was a Democrat who didn't 401 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 4: like Andrew Jackson. And so the wags are go, come 402 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 4: on over with us, you can be our VP and stuff, 403 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 4: and like, you know, we talked about it with uh, 404 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: Henry Clay, because Henry Clay was like the one true 405 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 4: Wig it felt like nobody else was a wig, and 406 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 4: so a lot of the stuff he was doing was 407 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 4: probably very popular with the opposition party, Like he was 408 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 4: always doing things with the devocrats like yeah, and the 409 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 4: whigs like half of them work yeah, and half of 410 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 4: them work no. And then somehow a third half of 411 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 4: them was like, I don't know, like licking glue. 412 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 2: Who knows. Wigs did not see. 413 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 4: The wigs were not around for very long for very 414 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 4: obvious reasons, because Andrew Jackson eventually. 415 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: Died and they had no way forward. They had no 416 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: real core policy of tricky Screw Jackson. 417 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 5: When you make your whole thing just based around hating 418 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 5: a person, and then you lose the object of your hatred, 419 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 5: it's your kind of rudderless at that point. 420 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: It's sort of funny if you think. 421 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: About, well, it's it's the same reason why beginning something, 422 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: any great endeavor with a negative aspect baked into the core, 423 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: they're usually not sustainable, you know. And so at this 424 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: same time, with great tragedy, seven children are left without 425 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: a mother because Letitia dies in eighteen forty two. This 426 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: is the first time an acting president's wife has passed 427 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: away in the White House. Tyler marries another person two 428 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: years later, Julia Gardner, in eighteen forty four, and so 429 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: he also becomes the first active president to marry while 430 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: in office. And like you were saying, Max, the Whigs 431 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: agree with him on some things, reject him on others. 432 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: The Democrats are very much not super fans of John Tyler. 433 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: And so this guy, you gotta admire the hutsba. This 434 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: guy goes into the presidential election in eighteen forty four 435 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: as the candidate of his own party. He made up 436 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: his own party, he found like the six people in 437 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: Washington who would hang out with him, and then said, 438 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: everybody hates me. Make the president again. It didn't work. 439 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean once again, he was kind of what 440 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 5: do you call it? He had some just guy. He 441 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 5: was left with some hanging out in the breeze, you know, 442 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 5: he was. 443 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 2: He was alone. 444 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 5: Nobody wanted to back him. He had a very difficult 445 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 5: time getting any support, to the point that in August 446 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,479 Speaker 5: eighteen forty four, he actually took his name out of 447 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 5: the hat, the conceptual hat, and instead decided to throw 448 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 5: his support behind the Democratic nominee, James K. 449 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: Polk. 450 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 5: And after he left office, he did continue to be 451 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 5: something of a social activist or he you know, he 452 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 5: maintained a voice in public of fails, you know, and 453 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 5: he of course maintained that beaten of that. 454 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 2: That's so and drum he loved so well. 455 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: Hm and uh, let me let me amend this. He 456 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: had eight children. I believe I may have said seven earlier, 457 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: so let's be clear there. That's why we're talking about 458 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: this episode. America's tenth president had a grandchild that lived 459 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: well into the modern age. It is absolutely bizarre. Shout 460 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: out again to Sherwood Forrest, home of President Tyler. You 461 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: can learn more information about this. 462 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 2: He had. 463 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: So, he had eight kids with his first wife, Letitia 464 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: Mary Robert and John, Letitia Elizabeth Alice and of course 465 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: Max's favorite Taze. Well, Taz Well, that's a ribulous name. 466 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: Where did that come from? 467 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 5: Now i'minna determinism there means this person's going to become 468 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 5: like a security guard or the inventor of the taser, 469 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 5: which has it's literally spelled that way. I've never seen that. 470 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 5: It does seem kind of like a Southern name like 471 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 5: mister Tay's. 472 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I just. 473 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 5: Picture that, and can I also just say that when 474 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 5: people on YouTube who are like coastal, kind of like 475 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 5: California types mock the South as an overarching thing. I 476 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 5: want to punch them. I hate it because we you know, 477 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 5: we live here. We can make fun of it. But 478 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 5: when you do that voice and you're from like California 479 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 5: or something like that in New York, it almost good 480 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 5: burns me up, burns me up. 481 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, isn't that what British people think about when we 482 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 4: do British commonly? 483 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 5: So I'm trying to be self aware about all of this, 484 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 5: but I'm saying also, like or Georgia is a complex state, 485 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 5: just like anywhere else. You know, you've got your redneck 486 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 5: contingents in California, you've got bad people and lazy, good 487 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 5: for nothing, uneducated, you know, dingbats everywhere. 488 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: It's just really annoying to me. 489 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 5: I think that lazy when people focus in on the 490 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 5: South and act like it's. 491 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: All just you know, people marrying their cousins or something 492 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: like that. Well, that's which we have an episode about. 493 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: That's the word. That's the word lazy. 494 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: You know. 495 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: I love I love a good Cartoonish accent, obviously, and 496 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: I love it when it's well intentioned in good fun. 497 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: But when it's lazy writing, then it's just a case 498 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: of do better, you know what I mean. And here's 499 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: the deal with the children. So you'll find some sources 500 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: saying seven children with the first wife, some saying eight. 501 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: The truth of it is that unfortunately one of those 502 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: kids died at birth and that's why the source is different. 503 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: Little and so when he real it doesn't stop there, 504 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: as Billy Mays was wont to say, wait, there's more. 505 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: When he marries Julia Gardner Tyler, who is thirty years 506 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: younger than him, they have more kids. 507 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 5: Again, no judgment here, but I would say that goes 508 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 5: against the whole age appropriate formula that we've talked about 509 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 5: on the show. 510 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 4: I think, yes, indeed, fight it by Yeah, it's actually 511 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 4: not as far off as you thanks. 512 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 5: Not so bad, okay, Okay, get yeah, Because it does 513 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 5: have to do with the age that the the. 514 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: That's the one, isn't it? Okay? So what so that 515 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 2: would be. 516 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 4: Forty two if he was seventy I don't remember exactly 517 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 4: how old he was when he. 518 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 5: Married her, well, probably about sixty nine. Let's just make 519 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 5: it the naughty number and call it sixty nine. 520 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: Nice, So she would have been thirty nine. I feel 521 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 2: like she was in her Yeah, I don't know. It's 522 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 2: pushing it, Yes. 523 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 5: It's pushing it. But whatever, we're not here to judge 524 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 5: it was. It was a different time. But yeah, they 525 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 5: did have a child. His youngest, Shell Pearl, was born 526 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 5: at the right old age of seventy. Yeah, not the 527 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 5: child instantly seventy. That'd be interesting. That makes some Benjamin 528 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 5: Button stuff. Now, Tyler was seventy when he his wife 529 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 5: gave birth to their youngest child. 530 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: Happens a lot these days as well. You know, I 531 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: think Robert de Niro notable actor, and Mick Jagger, notable musician, 532 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: both had some kids pretty lately. 533 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 5: It looks like he lost more than just one child though, right, 534 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 5: they had four tragic. 535 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 4: Two actually kind of juman backtrack because actually child were following, 536 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 4: So he had seven more children with this woman. 537 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, the one child he lost was from the first man, 538 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: that's right. 539 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 4: But then, but so the joke of it is like, 540 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 4: there's four children who died before the birth of his 541 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 4: last child. 542 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 5: That was in the what was going on? That sounds 543 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 5: that's unlikely. Yeah, I mean again, there's a different time. 544 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 5: Medical technology wasn't where it is, but that just seems 545 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 5: like real ron luck there. 546 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 547 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: He had a total of fifteen children, fifteen legitimate children 548 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: that we know of, with two spouses, eight boys, seven girls, 549 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: and as you point out, Max, four of his children 550 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: had already passed away by the time he had his 551 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: last child, Pearl that you mentioned, Noel and Pearl. Let's 552 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: trace the line a bit. Pearl lives until nineteen forty seven. Pearl, 553 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: she's born in eighteen sixty. She lives long enough to 554 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: see World War two, World War One, the Civil War. 555 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: It's nuts. 556 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to use the phrase Max, you wrote this, 557 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: and I just want to give credit where it's due. 558 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: You could say a hyper virulent sperm. 559 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 2: The seed is strong. Yeah, that was a Game of Thrones. 560 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 5: There is another well known book I believe you reference 561 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 5: already been, which was called Sherwood Forest, Home of President 562 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 5: John Tyler, in which they make notes that he had 563 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 5: forty four grandchildren, five of which were named John. And 564 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 5: I just having just recently rewatched the nineteen seventies Disney 565 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 5: Robin Hood, I love the idea of living in Sherwood Forest. 566 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 5: It seems like a place for the proletariat, you know, 567 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 5: it seems like a place where like a band of 568 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 5: mary you know, ruffians hang out and have their fort 569 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 5: and steal from the rich. 570 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: But not this Sherwood forrest. It would seem no. 571 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: And this all leads us to the grand mathematical oddity. 572 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: If we're playing along at home ridiculous historians, fifteen children. 573 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: Those fifteen children make forty four grandchildren, and five of 574 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: those are confusingly named John. This means that up until 575 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: just three years ago, two of the tenth president's grandchildren 576 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: were alive. They were alive while we were doing this show. 577 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 2: That's wild man, the tenth President. That's a long time ago. 578 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: I don't understand. We're in seventeen ninety. 579 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's pretty insane. Is that strong sperm? That's what 580 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 5: did it? It has life giving powers. You know, it's 581 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 5: that strong math too, So it obviously sperm in general 582 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 5: has life giving powers. That's sort of what it is, 583 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 5: but mystical imbued with a little more rutzba. 584 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's give you the names. Lyon Gardner Tyler, Junior, 585 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: grandson of the tenth President, Johnny T, passed away on 586 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: September twenty sixth, twenty twenty at the heartbreakingly young age 587 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: of ninety five. 588 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 5: Ninety five years young and gone too soon. Lyon's brother, 589 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 5: Harrison Ruffin Taylor, I love the name. Ruffin, by the way, 590 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 5: was born in nineteen twenty eight. Is still living, that's 591 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 5: right to this day, still living. 592 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: He is ninety five years old. 593 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly ninety five years young, ripe old age. But 594 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 5: he's still gets out there and mall walks. You know, 595 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 5: I'm sure, what is this guy up to? I'm intrigued, 596 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 5: really wild. 597 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: He does a lot of a lot of EDM, a 598 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: lot of DJing, He's got some deep house, a little 599 00:34:58,680 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: bit of jungle, you. 600 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 2: Know, really into VR rhythm games. That's his whole thing. 601 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: And so we're going to call it a day, but 602 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: we want you to know, fellow ridiculous historians, Noel Max 603 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: and I went through more research we had compiled for this, 604 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: and we we're gonna bring it back in our continuing 605 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: clip show, which so far has ended up with us 606 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: doing like one piece of stuff we didn't get to 607 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: and I'm happy with that. I thought the nukes episode 608 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: was good. 609 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: Oh totally. And it's fine. 610 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 5: We've got stuff that like ends up kind of clustered 611 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 5: around sort of themes, so it'll be really fun to 612 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:38,960 Speaker 5: do this. I would love to add one last little 613 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 5: bit of trivia. I just found this before we took 614 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 5: a little off Mike moment. We mentioned the tagline Tippecanoe 615 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 5: and Tyler too, and we're talking about that this was 616 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 5: an egregious act of war criminality by the US and 617 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 5: defeating indigenous people and dare we say slaughtering them? 618 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: We do say. 619 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 5: But apparently there's a thing called the Typeic Canoe curse 620 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 5: or Tecumsa's curse, which is an urban legend that cursed 621 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 5: United States presidents voted into office in years that end 622 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 5: with zero that can be divided by twenty. Eighteen forty 623 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 5: President Harrison died in office from elling this. Eighteen sixty, 624 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 5: Lincoln assassinated, eighteen eighty, Garfield assassinated nineteen twenty. Harding died 625 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 5: in office after suffering a heart attack. Nineteen forty. Roosevelt 626 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,280 Speaker 5: died during his fourth term. Nineteen sixty. Kennedy assassinated. Interesting, 627 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 5: didn't know about this, thought it worth mentioning, But yeah, man. 628 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 2: Kind of an ornery, you. 629 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 5: Know, spoiled brat type figure in politics. But I think 630 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 5: the lineage is interesting and I'll honestly how he came 631 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 5: to be in power is also interesting. The whole thing, 632 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 5: you know, I think it fits the bill for ridiculous history. 633 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 4: Also, one last thing I do want to point out. 634 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 4: It seems like the two grandchildren Lion Harrison, seemed to 635 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 4: be alright, dude, So it looks like, you know, it 636 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 4: seems like the terribleness has knock all of you down. 637 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 2: Their father as much. If you're interested in learning more about. 638 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,800 Speaker 4: Him, find his William and Mary page that talks about 639 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 4: his time as president of the College of William Mary. 640 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 4: By the way, they all went to college with William 641 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 4: and Mary, very that old old. 642 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: Old dominion, because of course they did. And it's important 643 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: to know the sins of the parents, you're not the 644 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: sins of the child, right, So we're going to end 645 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: it there. Thank you as always, folks, so much for 646 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: tuning in. Thanks to our super producer and research associate 647 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,000 Speaker 1: for this episode, mister Max Williams, as well as his 648 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: own brothers still alive Alex Williams, who composed this track. 649 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 5: Huge thanks to Chris frosciotis here in spirit. He's Jeff Coates. 650 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 5: Jonathan Strickland ever made the curse of strickland. 651 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: Rain in any year that ends with a number exactly. 652 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. 653 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 654 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 5: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.