1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Null. 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Our compatriot Matt Frederick is on another mission. But don't worry. 6 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: As we said before, all will be revealed in time. 7 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: We promise it will be worth the weight. In the meantime, 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: they call me Ben. You are joined with our super 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: producer Paul mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. 10 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: You are here that makes this stuff they don't want 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: you to know. As you are hearing this, it's twenty nineteen, 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: Happy New Year. As we are recording this, we are 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: on the precipice of eighteen, which is old beings by now. 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: Right for every precipice, I guess the precipice could be 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: the end or the beginning of a thing. Right. Sure? 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: You have in that gray area, the liminal space, That's 17 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: the one I was trying to get Ben for the 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: purposes of this episode. Can I give Paul a slightly 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: different nickname? Sure? Please do? Paul the nature Boy decends. 20 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: All right, Let's see Paul do you approve of that. 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: He's smiling nodded like, and he was like a chip 22 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: or smile. Well, maybe he'll throw in a woo on 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: the sounds cue. So the Moniker Nature Boys appropriate for 24 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: today's episode because Matt and I were talking off air 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 1: a while back, and uh, you know, Matt's a very 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: passionate young man, and he gets he'll get captivated by 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: these certain questions or these ideas. And he asked me 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: earlier about grocery stores, about what the experience when you're 29 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: walking through a grocery store and let's say you're in 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: the serial aisle or something and you see something advertised 31 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: as all natural or natural flavor, and Ben, he said, 32 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: what what does that really mean? And I thought about 33 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: it for a while, and one day I was strolling 34 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: through the aisle of our local grocery store, being subtly 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: mind controlled through our grocers. Yeah, and uh, I noticed 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: that it was one of those things that you cannot unsee. 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: Their various wholesome phrases on everything from dish detergent to 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: breakfast cereal. There're things like all natural or natural flavor. Okay, 39 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: side note, hopefully that does not apply to dish detergent. 40 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: But these phrases adorn all sorts of packaging, and the 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: implication here, obviously is that these products are somehow inherently 42 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: healthier and superior to the run of the General Mills 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: preservative riddled, additive laden junk food masquerading his healthy food 44 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: stuff it. So, but what does that mean exactly? What 45 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: does natural or all natural mean? To answer this, we 46 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: have to introduce you to the f d A. If 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: in fact this is your first time listening to the show, 48 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: it's nice to meet you, f d A. You're doing 49 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 1: good work for the people. So what what is the 50 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: fd anal well, Ben, I'm glad you asked. In the 51 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: United States of these Americas, the Food and Drug Administration, 52 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: or the f d A is responsible for maintaining a 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: certain kind of quality control, let's call it consistency. Um. 54 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: They are responsible for food safety. And we've been through 55 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: this in past episodes where this at one point wasn't 56 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: really a thing and you were sort of on your 57 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,399 Speaker 1: own back in the days of you know, dealing directly 58 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: with farms and there was really no oversight. So on 59 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: one level, the f d A is a great idea 60 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: and a great thing in theory. Some of those episodes 61 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: include terrifying things you just eight um and more. And 62 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: regardless how you may or may not feel about big government. 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: By the way, we have the most adorable email coming 64 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: today where someone said, it's really weird every time you 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: guys do a quote, there's this strange sound that happens. 66 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: Is everything, okay, and Ben very kindly explained that that 67 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: was our our quotation sound effects. It's true. So regardless 68 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: how you feel about big government, almost everyone can agree 69 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: that something like the f d A is, as I 70 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: said before, a fantastic idea on paper, or at very 71 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: least something like it is necessary to keep people from 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: getting poisoned by the food. Yeah, at the very least, 73 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: it's a necessary evil. In eighteen forty eight, the very 74 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: first national law concerned with regulating food came out as 75 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: a result of the Mexican American War, and this law 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: banned the importation of adulterated drugs. Food inspection, as you said, Noel, 77 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: at the time was largely thought to be the duty 78 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: of the consumer, not the duty of the government. So 79 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: the I the idea, you know, it may remind some 80 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: of us of that old colloquialism buying a pig in 81 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: a poke, meaning that you buy or sell something without 82 00:04:55,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: the buyer knowing its true nature or value. And for 83 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: some people, you know, you can see the the sort 84 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: of common sense argument here, but that's not completely fair 85 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: because if you're an average consumer, it's very difficult for 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: you to parse all of the ingredients in a given thing. 87 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: And this meant that in many cases consumers were exposed 88 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: to unsafe additives, counterfeit ingredients, or deceptive packaging. And deceptive 89 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: packaging it still happens today. You may have noticed over 90 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: the years, if you are in your let's see, even 91 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: you were late twenties, you you may have noticed that 92 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: some boxes of certain products have gotten smaller, where the 93 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,679 Speaker 1: bags within the boxes have gotten smaller. The price stayed 94 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: the same, but you get less per ounced, or in 95 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: some cases, the circumference of straws narrowed in fast food places, 96 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: or the bottom of cylindrical containers was raised up and dented, 97 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: so that you are buying something that looks to be 98 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: the same size, but it is not. Possibly even the 99 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: cup like tapers a little bit or something like that, right, absolutely, 100 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: and this is this is a tail as old as 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: American time. Or a tail as old as food manufacturing time, 102 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: but it used to run rampant back in the day, 103 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: and the f DA was formed in large part due 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: to a time when this practice exploded. It was called 105 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: the Era of Adulteration. Consumers across the country began to 106 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: panic over falsely labeled products. You would buy coffee to 107 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: find that it was cut with tree bark and dandelion 108 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: leaves which stick out by the way when you're drinking 109 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. You would buy sugar and say, hey, 110 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: wait is a third a half of this sand? You 111 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: would find margarine that pretended to be butter. And on 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: another show that we do, Cold Ridiculous History available now 113 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: wherever you find your favorite podcast you can listen to. 114 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: Let's see we have we have a couple of episodes 115 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: concerning this, right yeah. One of them in particular that 116 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: came to mind was the one about vitamin donuts and 117 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: the idea of enriched flower. That's a that's a very 118 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: language oriented one, which I think is what we're getting 119 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: into with today's episode about natural flavorings as a buzzword 120 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: or all natural or natural natural means nude. Yes, So 121 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: check those out. The f D a came into effect 122 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: through the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act, which was signed 123 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: by Franklin Roosevelt on June n eight Fast forward to today, 124 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: here in this our modern age, eighteen as we record nineteen. 125 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: As you listen, some estimates, many estimates, report the twenty 126 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: cents out of every dollar Americans spend goes toward a 127 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: product under the regulation of the f d A. We're 128 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: talking one trillion t r i billion dollars in goods 129 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: every year. So this is a big deal. This is 130 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: a big deal, and it's easy for it to get 131 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: ignored in various news reports and stuff because although it's 132 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,119 Speaker 1: a big deal, it can seem like a boring deal 133 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: at times. It's like campaign finance reform. People sort of 134 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: know that it matters, but who wants to Who was 135 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: to sit through that? I'm sorry, man, I tuned out 136 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: completely when you said campaign finance reform, right, right? So back, Yeah, 137 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: we'll count back from ten and then snap our fingers. 138 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: In addition to regulating the types of substances that are 139 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: or are not allowed in food products, the FDA also 140 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: regulates how these foods can be advertised and no, this 141 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: is where we get to that turn of language, right, 142 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: that phrasery, absolutely phrasery. I love that? Is that like 143 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: the study of Frasier. It's it's I'm churchifying these words. 144 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: Just a bit well done, sir, well, thank you man. 145 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: But so, so what is what's the deal? No? What 146 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: what are we talking about here when we talk about 147 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: the phrases approved or not approved by the f d A. 148 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: As it turns out, even a simple, on the surface, 149 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: very straightforward phrase or word like natural or all natural 150 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: h might not be entirely what they seem. So what 151 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: exactly is it that these manufacturers don't want you to know? 152 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Year's 153 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy, great question. What's in a definition? Okay? 154 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: First off, the f d A here in the States 155 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: at least, and and international listeners, this does also apply 156 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: to your home country. We're we're focusing on the US 157 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: because that's one of the ones that gets the most 158 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: ink nowadays. First off, the f d A has spent 159 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: a long long time completely ignoring this issue or trying 160 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: to matrix dodget alah Neo in the trilogy. In the 161 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: early nine nineties, the agencies started working on a formal 162 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: definition of the claim of of the phrase natural, all natural, natural, 163 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: all that slow jazz, but they backed off on account 164 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: of what they called resource limitations and other agency priorities. 165 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: Instead of a binding regulation thou shalt or thou shalt not, 166 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: they released an advisory opinion saying that natural foods are 167 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: those that lack quote artificial or synthetic additives. The agency 168 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: kicked the can down the road again to kick the 169 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: soup can I guess down the road again in two 170 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: thousand seven, in the middle of this fewer or in 171 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: this huge debate over whether high fructose corn syrup was 172 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: an artificial product or just another natural form of sugar, 173 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: a representative for the FDA said, We're not sure how 174 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: high of an issue this is for consumers, as then 175 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: we don't think they care. Therefore we shouldn't worry about it. 176 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: Kind of that was they were, and they were putting 177 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: it on the consumers, which is isn't that kind of 178 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: now with they're supposed to do, it's similupp to look 179 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: out for the consumer. It's similar to when comcasts started 180 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: putting in data caps for all these Internet users and 181 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: they say, we talked to consumers and they want more options. 182 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: None of which are you know, normal internet usage? Right? Um? 183 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: And you know high frictose corn syrup does come from corn, right, 184 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: that's true. And corn does grow in the ground. That's 185 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: also true. Therefore, what what makes natural? That's the question here. 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: That's why I want to know. I don't know. It's 187 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: a prescient question, yeah, and it's a High fructose corn 188 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: syrup was something that was a subject of multiple debates 189 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: here and multiple class action lawsuits as well. Snapple faced 190 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: the lawsuit over high fructose corn syrup in two thousand 191 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 1: and ten and the f d A had another chance 192 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: to tackle this issue, but they failed to offer any 193 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: guidance to the courts, and they said consumers could read 194 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: the ingredients off the pack kitchen decide for themselves whether 195 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: those ingredients were natural. So again, despite the fact that 196 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: the f d A was made to protect consumers from 197 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: this sort of lack of clarity in food products, we 198 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: went back to you know, pre nineteen o six rules, 199 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: and consumers were thought to be responsible for the oversight 200 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: they were buying the pigs in the poke. But despite this, 201 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: despite the fact that they refused to make any lasting 202 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: substance of judgment of this, the f d a does 203 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: have a definition of natural. It's pretty it's pretty weird. 204 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: Uh do you want to do the honors? Oh? Why not? Here? 205 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: It is straight from the agency's horse mouth. The essential 206 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: oil OLEO Harrison, I hope I'm doing that justice essence 207 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: or extraction, protein, hydraulicsate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating, 208 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: or enzyme elysis which contains the flavoring constituents derived from 209 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: a spice, fruit, fruit, juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf, 210 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, 211 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: or fermentation products. Thereof, it's very mellifluous, kind of musical 212 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: cadence whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. 213 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: Huh So. Other than sounded like the beginning of a 214 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: freestyle or the the prelude to an argument about campaign 215 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: finance reform, this seems to be a pretty loosey goosey 216 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: open definition. The concept here is that if it was 217 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: derived from a food, a thing that people would eat, 218 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: and it's added to something to give it some sort 219 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: of flavor profile other than you know, um, a vitamin 220 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: extracted added to a doughnut to make it um ostensibly 221 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: more nutritious. If it's primarily used from flavoring and it 222 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: satisfies any of those above listed origins, then it qualifies 223 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: as natural, and any other added flavor stuff that does 224 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: not fit this definition would therefore be by default artificial. 225 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: Side note, though, any monosodium glutamate a K A M 226 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: s G a K A amazing flavor dust dust. There 227 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: we go. Any MSG that's used to flavor foods has 228 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: to be declared on the label as such, Both artificial 229 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: and natural flavors are made by these people called flavorist 230 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: in laboratories by blending either natural chemicals or synthetic chemicals 231 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: to create different flavor profiles. But it gets pretty tricky 232 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: pretty quickly, because foods that should be vegetarian can include 233 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: flavors that are derived from animals, and foods can have 234 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: flavors that outwardly have nothing to do with the food involved. 235 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: So one example of this incongruity would be wine that 236 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: includes traces of egg or fish doesn't sound particularly appetizing, 237 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: but qualifies as natural or all natural. Interesting, what about gelatine? 238 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: I don't think advertise gelatine is being like vegan or vegetarian. 239 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes yet it will be because gelatine in the past 240 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: was made from boiling hoofs of animals. But isn't it 241 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: still made from pig skins in some way? In a 242 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: lot of ways, Yeah, there are there. It depends on 243 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: which count you buy, right. Uh. There are a few 244 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: reasons that extra flavors might be added to foods. You 245 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: can add it to a place of flavor that is 246 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: removed during food processing or pasteurization, like orange juice, for instance, 247 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: often will have added flavor agents. They also can help 248 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: food taste fresh even when it is very much not 249 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: fresh again see orange juice. They can create a smell 250 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: that will entice someone to eat the product, because we 251 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: have to remember, smell and taste are very very closely related. 252 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: So cheetos, for instance, they smell like cheese even though 253 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: there's laughably little cheese in them, and flavor addom flavors 254 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: can create a more concentrated, short lived flavor that gets 255 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: addictive and leaves you wanting more, like chewing gum. One 256 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: of the worst examples of this would be zebra stripe gum. 257 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: Do you remember that stuff? The fruit stripe gum. Yeah, fruits. Yeah, 258 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: the name was fruit strip remember that stuff. Weird one. Yeah, 259 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: that stuff lasted for maybe like forty five seconds to 260 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: a minute, that's right, And that one did an interesting 261 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: thing that um, some breakfast cereals do too, where it 262 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: purports to have like it's like all the flavors because 263 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: it's got the stripes, but it's really just a single flavor, 264 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: like fruit loops. For example. I recently discovered that apparently 265 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: all the fruit loop colors taste same, but because they 266 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: look different and they're called different things in the marketing materials, 267 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: your brain kind of fills in the gaps and makes 268 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: it like this one tastes more blue, right, hence like 269 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: blueberries or whatever. It's all. It's all elaborate ruse. And 270 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: this also helps explain how you will find it's very 271 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: common in a lot of flavored or fruit inspired beverages 272 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: where the color is the flavor, like arctic blue. Exactly 273 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: what kind of fruit is that? It tastes like ice, 274 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: which is flavorless unless there's something wrong with the ice, 275 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: or I've never had mountain dew, but mountain dew code red, 276 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: code red, is that is that a flavor? Yeah, I 277 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: mean it tastes like that's really funny you should say that. Actually, 278 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: I kind of remember back in the day when that 279 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: came out, people would be trying to put their finger 280 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: on what it tastes like. And someone I remember hearing 281 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: people say, it just tastes red, right, it kind of 282 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: like Hawaiian punch. Okay, that makes sense, So they're is 283 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: another there's another take on this. We would be remiss 284 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: if we didn't put in a positive spin here. A 285 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: guy named Gary Rhynsius, professor in the Department of Food 286 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: Science and Nutrition at the University of Minnesota, says that 287 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: the distinction between natural and artificial flavorings is more based 288 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: on the source of the provenance of chemicals that are identical. 289 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: In fact, he says artificial flavorings may be superior because 290 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: they're simpler in composition. They're potentially safer because the only 291 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: way they're made is in a lab with components that 292 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: have already been tested for safety. And this also includes 293 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: the factor of cost. So do you remember there was 294 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: a long, long time ago there was a Sean Connery 295 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: film called The Medicine Man or something like that, and 296 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: in The Medicine Man Sean Connery goes deep into the 297 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: hearts of the Amazon to try to find naturally occurring 298 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: things that can later be used as medicinal cures or 299 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: treatments for various untreatable conditions. Flavorists do this. They go 300 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: out in the wild and they try to find something 301 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: that has this particular sweet profile or this unique you 302 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: know umami to it or whatever. And that can be 303 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: expensive because you're sending people out into often very remote areas, 304 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: so you have to have a manufacturer go to great 305 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: lengths to identify, find and then um process a naturally 306 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: occurring chemical. And this natural chemical can be identical to 307 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: the version made in an organic chemist laboratory. But it's 308 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: much more expensive to find the natural stuff versus the 309 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: synthetic stuff. So that's one point in favor of I 310 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: almost said in flavor of in favor of artificial flavoring. 311 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: But the conundrum quickly becomes more complex, and will tell you, 312 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: will tell you how how much more complex and bedeviling 313 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: this can become. After a brief word from our sponsor, 314 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: who man, I hope is monsanto or maybe fruit stripe gum. 315 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: Maybe fruit stripe gum, we should write to them and 316 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: we have returned. So we said, this gets a little 317 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: bit more complex and a little bit more frustrating, and 318 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: that is very very true, especially when we encounter We 319 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: all knew this would come up at some point, especially 320 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: when we encounter g m os. But what is a 321 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: GMO exactly? Well, Ben, GMO is one of my favorite 322 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: things in the entire world, which is an acronym, and 323 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: it stands for genetically modified organisms. So these are plant 324 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: or animal products that have been re engineered in a 325 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: laboratory um with the DNA of various bacteria, viruses or 326 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: other plants and animals too. It's it's it's it's essentially 327 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: us to help make more of them yield, yield more crops, right, Okay, 328 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: that makes sense, make make them uh more likely to 329 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: survive pest and pesticides, heartier, Yeah yeah, yeah fortified. There 330 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: we go. There we go like a doughnut and uh. 331 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: This this has been a pretty controversial thing for a 332 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: lot of people who who are concerned about the possibilities 333 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: for long term health effects and then also the possibilities 334 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: for corporate corruption. One of the one of the big 335 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: accusations that we heard when GMO's first hit the scene 336 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: here in the States, or I should say, first hit 337 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: the airwaves was the idea that large agricultural monopolies would 338 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: breed certain seeds to be terminating lines, meaning that they 339 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: you you could buy seeds enough for a season to 340 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: make a seasonal crop, but those crops would be genetically 341 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: modified to not produce more seeds. So then you would 342 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: always have to go back to this company and buy 343 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: seeds again each time you were each time you were 344 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: growing something to harvest. And then of course the other 345 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: thing being that they would say that we're not longitudinal studies. 346 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: We don't know how this will affect our children, our 347 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: children's children, and so on. About nine of the corn, cotton, soybeans, 348 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: and sugar beets that are grown here in the US 349 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: are in some way genetically altered. They're most often used 350 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: in highly processed foods crackers, cookies, cereals. But the question 351 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: here is about their nature. Are they natural? Some people 352 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: would say, well absolutely. Some people would say look at 353 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: the corn that look at the evolution of corn. Look 354 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: at the way Gregor Mendel studied genetics in p plants. 355 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: This is human intervention. We're changing the genetic expression of 356 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 1: these of these organisms. Right, because that's what a plant is. 357 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: But what I really appreciate about the definition you gave us, Noll, 358 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: is that we're talking about inserting other DNA from other 359 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: organisms in here. We're not just evolving something, right. That's 360 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: the primary that's the primary objection, and that's why people 361 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: start to debate, not even whether or not GMOs are 362 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: healthy and right now there's not really any compelling evidence 363 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: that they're terrible for you, but they're debating whether or 364 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: not these things are natural. And there have been multiple 365 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: class action lawsuits concerning this that originate in your local 366 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: grocery store. Do you remember ben pepperage farmer remembers pepperage 367 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: farmer remembers everything. I bet they remember two thousand twelve, especially, 368 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: they sure do, because that's when a Colorado woman sued 369 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: the pants off of these pepperage farmers, calling into question 370 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: the natural nous of their gold face crackers. You know, 371 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: you know the goldfish tagline is let's the gold there's tagline. 372 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: It's the snack that smiles back, which I find morbid 373 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: because it smiles back and then you immediately eat its face. 374 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the piggly wiggly mascot that always 375 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: really bothered me because that thing is a monster to pigs. Oh, 376 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: it really is, because it's a butcher, right, right, it's 377 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: a butcher. It's got a knife in its older in 378 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: its older incarnations, straight upholding a knife. It's right. It 379 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: reminds me of this painting I think you've seen been 380 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: in a local breakfast joint called Homegrown. That's like a 381 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: painting of a pig sort of dissecting its own midsection. 382 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: I think it's obviously a nod to the Piggly Wiggly mascot. 383 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: But yeah. So, Pepperage Farm got sued by a Colorado 384 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: woman claiming that they were in the wrong in saying 385 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 1: that they're goldfish snack crackers were natural, right, because the 386 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: soybean oil used in the snacks is made from a 387 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: genetically modified crop and since those crops quote contain jeans 388 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: door DNA that would not normally be in them. She 389 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: concluded that goldfish are thus unnatural. And this is one 390 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: that we wanna we want to take to take to 391 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: the streets of the internet. What do you all think, 392 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists? Do you think that this means these 393 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: goldfish should not be sold? As natural or all natural. 394 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: In California, there was something called Prop thirty seven Proposition 395 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: thirty seven that would have enshrined this sort of labeling 396 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: into law, but like the lawsuit, it didn't really go anywhere. 397 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: The idea of Prop. Thirty seven was that all foods 398 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: that contained what we would define as GMOs had to 399 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: be labeled as such. And we got a lot of 400 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: feedback on this a few years ago because we heard 401 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: from a lot of folks on both sides. Some people saying, well, 402 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: there's no evidence that GMOs are bad for you, therefore 403 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: it's alarmists to have these labeling things occur. But then 404 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: a lot of people argued, well, if there's no evidence 405 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: that you're bad for you, then what's wrong with being 406 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: transparent about it. I tend to fall more on the 407 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: latter side, you know, let people know. Well, it's interesting 408 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: to this conversation in general, especially given some of the 409 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: things that are happening with gene editing and crisper and 410 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, rogue research. I guess 411 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: that's being done by this Chinese scientist in editing the 412 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: DNA of um twin girls and twins or with his 413 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: sisters there were twins, twin girls um to be resistant 414 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: or immune to the HIV virus. And it's one of 415 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: these things that we've been talking about the debate here. 416 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: And the question is not whether the research itself is 417 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: inherently harmful, like, sure, make more crops, that's great, let's 418 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: have a heartier corn or whatever. But it's the long 419 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: term stuff that we don't necessarily we can't really figure 420 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: out instantly even in a study. Right, that's true, that's true. 421 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: The idea of the longitudinal problem rights something that might 422 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: be excellent. No, of course, it's very difficult to compare 423 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: human experimentation and plant experimentation. But but the concern holds. 424 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: Since a valid concern is there's something that would that 425 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: we would alter in such a way that appears enormously 426 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: beneficial for one to two generations, and then much later 427 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: down the line, four to five generations, ten to twelve generations, 428 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: it turns out that we have painted ourselves into some 429 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: horrific evolutionary corner. Possibly possible. I'm not gonna say probably, 430 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: but possibly. And then there's the organic problem. Food manufacturers 431 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of stuff that's advertised as organic, but 432 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: that probably doesn't mean what you think it means, but 433 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: what it really comes down to is almost a philosophical point. 434 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: The reason that the f d A has continually refused 435 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: to clamp down on this deceptive practice, and therefore the 436 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: reason that so many food manufacturers are able to deceive 437 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: the average consumer uh and maybe make them buy something 438 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: that's less healthy than they might originally have believed, is 439 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: because we have a tough time defining natural it's it's 440 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: it's much more difficult than defining say purity. Purity is 441 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: something you can define in scientific terms. Something is substance A, 442 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 1: and then something else is seven percent substance A. Well, 443 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: that thing that's is therefore two percent more pure. That's 444 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: just a number that doesn't have an opinion. We're not 445 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: remarking on the nature of existence, the future of humanity. 446 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna need everything I consume to be three percent 447 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 1: more pure. There isn't your point band that it's kind 448 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: of arbitrary at that point with those low numbers. Well, 449 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: it more so that it's at least in terms of purity, 450 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: there's quantitative reasoning we can use. In terms of natural 451 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: we're verging into the realm of qualitative So our GMOs natural. 452 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: Because here's the thing that that new chimera that has 453 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: some DNA from another organism clipped into it, it's getting 454 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: DNA from a natural source. We have not at this 455 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: point just manufactured DNA. Right, We're just mix taping a 456 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: little bit. We're doing a little bit of a we're 457 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: doing a little bit of girl talk mash up stuff 458 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: with DNA, right right, and uh that that Those are 459 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: fantastic tracks, by the way, check them out if you 460 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: get a chance. But that's the question. Does does combining 461 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: two natural things in a way that would not occur 462 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: normally make it unnatural? Even though the ingredients are natural? 463 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: Is it natural to take chemicals derived from one plant 464 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: or animal and then to transfer them to another food product? 465 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: I mean, those are both natural things, but they wouldn't 466 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: occur in nature, right, So what what do you think? 467 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: The debate continues today. There's not a universally um agreed 468 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: upon answer, and the f d A announced that it 469 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: was revising its rule on the term natural on food 470 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: labels as recently as but it has yet to issue 471 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: a final rule. It does currently bar the use of 472 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: the term natural for products that contain added color, synthetic 473 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: substances and added synthetic flavors. This means, for now, all 474 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: natural and natural are not the pinned down phrases that 475 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: you can or should instantly trust, and spoiler alert, it 476 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: is probably going to remain this way for the immediate future, because, 477 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: as representatives of the FDA said, we don't think customers 478 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: care right. Who cares right? They're fine, They're fine, just 479 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: leading to their own devices. Yeah, let me And you 480 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: know what, sometimes accidentally, some horse meat horses are natural. 481 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: You know what I named my horse and red dead Redemption? 482 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: What did you name your horse and red dead Redemption? 483 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: Hergus Burgos ergas Burgos? Was that? I don't know. I 484 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: think it was a meme that had like different um 485 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: like fast food chain signs with like absurdist language, and 486 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: one of them was like Wendy's hergus Burgos or something 487 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: like that, Wendy's old fashioned hergus Burgos. I would probably 488 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: eat that. I would just to support the creativity. Unfortunately, 489 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: the best way now for you and I and Paul 490 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: Nature Boys Slash Mission Control TECND and you feel a 491 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: listener to determine how a given manufacturer deems something natural, 492 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: natural or all natural is cartoonishly inconvenient. Get this, You 493 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: have to contact them one by one directly and figure 494 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: out what they actually mean by the phrase. In multiple cases, 495 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: they will not agree with the definitions of another company, 496 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: and in many cases there may be something they don't 497 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: want you to know. So as always, check out that 498 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: ingredient list. Uh. Don't be fooled by the big bold 499 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: print on the front of a box, check the fine 500 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: print on the back, check where it's hidden. And if 501 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: you genuinely have some suspicion, if you genuinely think, well, 502 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: something sounds a little bit off about this strawberry jam 503 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: flavored beef jerky or what right I think people would 504 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: try it? Uh, then you can contact them directly. Speaking 505 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: of contacting people directly, we hope that your twenty nineteen 506 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: is off to an astonishing start. You can talk to 507 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: us directly as well as your fellow listeners. You can 508 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. We highly recommend 509 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: stopping by our community page. Here's where it gets crazy 510 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: when you can talk to some of our favorite people 511 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: on this planet and others your fellow listeners. And if 512 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: you don't want to do any of that stuff, which 513 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: you should shame on you. If you don't know, we 514 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: don't shame people for anything on this show. UM, we 515 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: support you. If you don't, you can send us a 516 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at how stuff 517 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: works dot com.