1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcasts, a 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session fifty nine 11 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: of the podcast. Today, we're back with another on the 12 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Couch episode. I know we haven't had one in a while, 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: but I'm very excited to share this one with you. 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: For this conversation, I'm Joe By, licensed professional counselor Shena Tubbs, 15 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: and we're talking all about Nova boord, a Law, one 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: of the characters from Ava du Vernaise hit series on 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: Own Queens Sugar. I'm such a fan of Queen Sugar. 18 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: For one, it's set in the sugar cane fields of Louisiana, 19 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: which is definitely home for me, as I grew up 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: right across the street from a sugar cane field. But 21 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: it's also some of the most beautifully shot work and 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: well written stories that I think you'll find anywhere on 23 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: TV today. So I'm excited to dig into more about 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: Nova's character and some of the concerns that might bring 25 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: her to therapy. A little bit more about our guest, 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: Sheina Tubbs is a licensed professional counselor and certified sex 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: Addiction Therapist candidate in Houston, Texas. Shena specializes in treating 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: women with intimacy disorders, trauma, and sexually compulsive behaviors are addictions. 29 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: She is also old trained in some of the leading 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: models for trauma and emotion regulation such as E M, 31 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: d R and Dialectical behavior Therapy. When not seeing clients, 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: Sheina can be found hosting her podcasts Love Junkie, which 33 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: focuses on healing and recovery from sexual addictions and co dependency, 34 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: and managing the Black Girl's Heel Group, a community focused 35 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: on offering tools for Black women to heal from unhealthy relationships, 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: low self esteem, and trauma. If you hear something you 37 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: want to share with others while you're listening, be sure 38 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: to share it on social media using the hashtag TBG 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: in Session. Here's our conversation. So, thank you so much 40 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: for being with us today, sheina, thank you. I'm happy 41 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: to be here. So I am very excited about talking 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: about your character. So who did you choose to talk 43 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: about with us today? I chose to do Nova Borda 44 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: from the show Queen Sugar, one of my favorite favorite shows. 45 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: I love everything Eva Duverne. So can you give us 46 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of background for people who may not 47 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: be familiar with Queen Sugar who don't um watch the show, 48 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: give us a little bit of background about Nova. Yeah, 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: so just Queen Sugar. Um. It's set a Louisiana and 50 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: it follows the lives of three siblings who inherit a 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: sugar king farm from their father. And the show follows 52 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: the lives of each of the siblings and how they 53 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: intertwine in the line and match up with the lives 54 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: that they had before and the new life they have 55 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: now and then also come to grips with the things 56 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: that their father dealt with with having the farm. And 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: Nova is the oldest of the three and she is 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: a journalist and a Black Lives Matter activists, a community 59 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: leave leader, and an herbalist. And she's soulful, a lover. 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: She's a great character. I think she's a very compelling 61 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: character to like. It feels like there are a lot 62 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: of layers to her, which I'm sure we will get into. 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 1: Um So, what als of of the things that you 64 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: have seen Nova kind of go through on Queen Sugar 65 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: or struggle with that you think might lead her into therapy. Yeah, 66 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: so it's interesting and thinking about Nova think I was 67 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: able to think of two things that might bring her 68 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: into therapy, even though there are probably other issues underneath 69 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: those that would she would find out about or gain 70 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: awareness of when she got there. So the two things 71 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: that I thought that she would come for are this 72 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: series of failed relationships and wanting to be able to 73 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: find a partner that doesn't end um with a lot 74 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: of conflict. And then also just seeing her progression. I 75 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: was thinking that maybe needing to find her voice or 76 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: needing to have a safe space to find her voice 77 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: as it changes in her activism work. Um um as 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: it's it's grown based on the needs of the community. 79 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: Guarant you Okay, so talk to me more about like 80 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: the relationship A piece like, what what have you seen 81 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: that you feel like would be something that would bring 82 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: her into therapy related to the relationships. Yeah, so she 83 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: we've seen her have three significant relationships and in spite 84 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: of great initial chemistry, they all end up ending and 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: we see that either from the start they're either not 86 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: good fits or maybe they are good fits, but she 87 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: finds conflicts with each of them, and you even seeing 88 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: no but talk about this and she says that in 89 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: all of her relationships she was looking for the end 90 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: before it even starts. And with du Bas, which who 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: was our latest love interests, she talked about how she 92 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: didn't see the end and it was scary to her, 93 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: and sure enough, at the first sign of conflict, even 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: though there was a it was a legitimate one. Instead 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: of her engaging moving closer to it, she ran and 96 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: she ran really hard. Okay, so that was the most 97 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: recent um love interests, like you mentioned, but the other 98 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: two relationships, would do you see um kind of had 99 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: that happened there? Yeah? So um Nova was initially UM 100 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: involved with Calmen who it was a white cop who 101 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: was married and so he just seemed like as if 102 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: he would be then tithesis of what she's looking for 103 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: as a Black Lives Matter activists and then also just 104 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: someone who was married. And so from the beginning there's 105 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: already a wall to intimacy, and there's a wall to 106 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: getting getting closer. And then the second love interest that 107 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of is Sean Tal And I can't remember 108 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: if Seantal was another journalist but or another activist. I 109 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: think he was an activist. She was an activist, and 110 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: so and them clashing on on their viewpoints and not 111 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: being able to rectify it and communicate. And so I 112 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: see this this trend in Nova's relationships where there is conflict, 113 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: there is tension, and instead of moving closer to see 114 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: if there's a way to compromise and work through it, 115 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: there's an immediate cut off and there's an immediate exit 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: of the relationship. Okay, So that that sounds like a 117 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: great conceptualization. Um, and do you think that we have 118 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: seen anything from UM like the history perspective that kind 119 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: of gives you some insight into like why she might 120 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: be behaving this way in her relationships? Yeah, Um, well yes, 121 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: and no, so no restricts me as someone who has 122 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: UM an avoidance attachment style, meaning that it's really difficult 123 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: for her to make close relationships. Now, this doesn't mean 124 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: that you can't have friends. Actually, people who are avoidance 125 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: may have lots of friends, be really popular. But it's 126 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: really the definition is really about how many people they 127 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: intimately let into their lives. Um, and those that they 128 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: are vulnerable with and let see them quote unquote and um. 129 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: So as far as where this might have come from, 130 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: we see that her that their mother died when they 131 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: were younger, and I want to say that she was 132 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: old enough to to exit, because Ralph Angel talks about 133 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: when their mom died that she immediately left New Orleans. 134 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: And so I wonder about just the nature of the 135 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: relationships in the house, Um, how close we're parents, how 136 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: close were parents to each of them? Because typically children 137 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: when they were born, they they tend to be more 138 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 1: dependent or more open to relationship. Is really a learned 139 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: behavior to say, Okay, I can't really trust you. I'm 140 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: going to do this all of myself because if I 141 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: depend on anyone then I'm going to be failed. And 142 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: so we're getting little glimpses on things that happened, and 143 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking about this. I was like, how 144 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: much do I spoil of the season. I just have 145 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: to say, you know, like we see in season two 146 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: that there is some infidelity concerns um and in their 147 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: parents relationship and so and dad wasn't there for a 148 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: while Alan, So how much of the abandonment or maybe 149 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: the sense the felt sense of abandonment comes into play 150 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: with her saying I'll leave you before you leave me. Yeah, 151 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: I definitely was picking up on that. And I don't 152 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: think we have to worry about spoilers because the season 153 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: has ended, UM, but I will issue a spoiler alert 154 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode just in case anyone 155 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: has not heard it. But I do think I think 156 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,199 Speaker 1: this season is when we saw UM, you know, the 157 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: whole issue of infidelity, infidelity between her parents come out, 158 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: and I do think that that shed a lot of 159 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: light on UM the way that she shows up in relationships, 160 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: because it sounds like there was some modeling of like 161 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: not being able to trust that went on between mom 162 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: and dad. So the second issue that you mentioned UM 163 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: that might bring her into therapy is related to kind 164 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: of finding her voice in terms of activism. So can 165 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: you say more about that. Yeah, So in her work, 166 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: she she really advocation works for the Lower Night, Lower 167 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: Nights Lord and then beyond, and she's always really pride 168 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: of herself and speaking the truth about injustice, and she 169 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: does so directly and plainly and fearlessly and um, just 170 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: really calling things as they are and not sure recoating them. 171 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: And also she's very she's always been very vocal whenever 172 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: people try to pathologize black people and demonize them with 173 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: racist systemic practices. And so you watch her um kind 174 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: of hit these different roadblocks and her activism work, which 175 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: she takes with stride, but then she meets someone who 176 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: gives her advice to exploit the racism of the people 177 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: that they're fighting against, and so in doing so, it 178 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: seems like to others that she's going to the other 179 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: side because she has to adopt some of the language. 180 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: And so as a result, you see her get a 181 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: lot of backlash and a lot of resistance from people 182 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: who firmly consider her a hero and UM and how 183 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: this really communal field feel. And then there's all this animosity, 184 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: and so I would imagine that there would be a 185 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: lot of grief and losing these connections with people she 186 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: has considered family. UM. And also I think in the 187 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: activistsm world, or at least what I've seen, and and 188 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: her UM part is that there's a lot of polarizing 189 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: views on each side, and so being able to come 190 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: to therapy and have a neutral space to talk out 191 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: what she might be thinking and the pros and the 192 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: cons and what how would I feel if I say this, 193 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: If it's okay for me to say this, do I 194 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: feel like I'm actually compromising my values? Would be really 195 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: beneficial for her. Yeah. And I also think that there 196 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: may be something related to UM, you know, like an 197 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: identity piece, right, Like if you kind of visualize and like, 198 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: if it's core to her identity that she identified as 199 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: an activist and now it feels like people are turning 200 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: against her, um, would there be maybe some identity pieces 201 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: that would be a challenge for her. Now Absolutely it's 202 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: it's she actually selling out or she's still the same. No, 203 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: but it looks front in a way, and it's not 204 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: okay for it to look differently. Yeah, And it feels 205 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: like this issue kind of clashed with the first issue, 206 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: So the relationship piece kind of clash with the owning 207 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: her voice piece in the ending of the relationship with 208 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: her in Dubois. Did you say more about that? Yeah, So, um, 209 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: it feels like so she broke off the relationship, right, 210 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: and then he it looks like there was some time 211 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: that passed and they hadn't spoken, and then he showed 212 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: up at the Sugarcane Festival I believe is where he 213 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 1: showed up right, Um, And it looks like there was 214 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: a conversation around um. You know, like really like he 215 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: didn't see her in the way that she saw herself. 216 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: And so you know, it feels like she was really 217 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: kind of honing into um, like owning her voice as 218 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: an activist and not kind of wanting to be who 219 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: he thought that she was, like really wanting to kind 220 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: of say, no, this is actually who I am and 221 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: I don't think you really see me. Yeah, And you know, 222 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: I I think that's absolutely true, and there's a lot 223 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: of value and I think that's something that's a really 224 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: powerful quality that she has. But also when I think 225 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: about just her consistent failed relationships, just the ability or 226 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: the tendency to find a criticism in each of the 227 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: relationships and for all the relationships or something that's wrong 228 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: with them and correct me if you if you've seen 229 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: something differently, but there's something wrong with the other person, 230 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: and that's her way to exit the relationship. And so 231 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: I'm all for only your voice and not changing to 232 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: compromise to be in a relationship if it compromises your values. 233 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: I just wonder if there is any space for any 234 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: more dialogue, um, other than the ones that we saw 235 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: on the screen, because they were they were very heated 236 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: and they were very reactionary versus this is what I believe, 237 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: this is what you believe. Is there any overlapping or 238 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: common ground that we can work together on? Yeah, I mean, 239 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: and of course that would be the beauty of having 240 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: an actual real life client. Not we'll be able to 241 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: see more of that, I mean, but definitely you know 242 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: with his name is Clayton, you said, the police officer, Uh, 243 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: Calvin Calvin Um. Yeah, So it feels like that relationship 244 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: really was not gonna go anywhere anyway, because, like you said, 245 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: there was always the wall to intimacy because he was 246 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: already married. So I mean, in some ways you she 247 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: kind of entered that with like knowing that it couldn't 248 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: go too far because he's already committed in another relationship, 249 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: or at least in the other relationship, um. And then 250 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: it feels like the relationship with her and the other 251 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: activists was was kind of short lived and we didn't 252 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: see very much of it. So it feels like the 253 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: relationship that played out the most on screen was the 254 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: one between her and Duvoy, and it did feel like 255 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: there was a very real connection, but she was afraid 256 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: of it, which is kind of like what you mentioned. 257 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: And so her way of kind of um, kind of 258 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: avoiding those feelings and getting too close to those feelings 259 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: may have been to kind of bolt at the first 260 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: sign of trouble, which is what you said. And there's 261 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: also something else that I would want to explore with Nova, 262 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: and just in the aspect of her her and the 263 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: role of sex in her relationships, you know, just watching her. 264 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: And this could just be based on what what I do, 265 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: And so my ears are more pert tonight and I 266 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: might look for it more. But I just think about 267 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: when she broke up with Calvin Um the first time 268 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: you saw that there was a series of white men 269 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: that she was sleeping with, and kind of this kind 270 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: of conquer and discard pattern. And sometimes the folks that 271 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: I work with, they present with something called eroticized rage 272 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: where you you look for partners to where you can 273 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: kind of have this power and control um and subconsciously 274 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: or even sometimes consciously, is because you're trying to not 275 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: be hurt in the same way you were hurt before 276 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: by someone who might remind you of them. And so 277 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,479 Speaker 1: I was just wondering, what the what the significance of 278 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: her being with these men, especially the type of men 279 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: she was with. And then also I was thinking, well, 280 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: am I if I'm overthinking that, then is it just 281 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: because she broke up with someone and she was looking 282 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: for a rebound? But even then it seemed problematic because 283 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: she didn't seem like she was happy at the end 284 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: of any of these accounters, and she seemed like she 285 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: was more ashamed or she was very irritable with them 286 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: and kind of hiding from other people, hiding from ourselves. 287 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: And so I would just I would be curious about 288 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: the role of sex as far as a coping or 289 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: a self student technique that's not really helping her and 290 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: the way she was intending for it to do. So, yeah, 291 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: it definitely seems like that would be something to further 292 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: explore if you were actually working with somebody like her. 293 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: For sure, UM. So so you're already kind of leading 294 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: into my next question, which which is, UM, like, what 295 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: kinds of strategies or techniques would you use with somebody 296 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: like Nova to maybe work through some of these concerns. 297 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: So with Nova, she takes a lot of pride and 298 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: her self reliance and confidence, and I would want to 299 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: make sure that I'm validating that and making meaning with that. However, 300 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: with that and seeming like it's a very tender place, 301 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: we would still I was still want to go to 302 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: looking at the family of origin history and see where 303 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: in her childhood that did she learn that it was 304 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: safer to do things herself, um, that she it was 305 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: difficult for her to commit to other people. We already 306 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: talked about the abandonment on what role that her father 307 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: is leaving played into that and any other family history 308 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: of secrets that we don't know about yet, um, And 309 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: then learning to walk through if it is if these 310 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: techniques that these avoidance techniques are ways to protect herself 311 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: from being heard in the same way again, are there 312 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: other ways to engage and communicate other than fleeing or 313 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: cutting people off? And so there's that, and then also 314 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: I think probably um, some role playing to get pre 315 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: actice in that communication UM, and also not being as 316 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: reactive UM when she's feeling triggered. I I like to 317 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: talk with my clients about how if their actions are hysterical, 318 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: then that means it's historical and so hysterical, meaning that 319 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: if they have this exaggerated or extreme reaction to something 320 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: that might not be on a related scale of the events, 321 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: like it doesn't match an intensity, then it might be 322 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: because it might be because you're reacting to something that 323 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: doesn't really have anything to do with the person in 324 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: front of you, but more because of a childhood or 325 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: a woan from earlier, and so UM, you know, going 326 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: back to Davos UM the where she would when they 327 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: went to the show and she felt like he put 328 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: her own blast and wasn't there for her. UM. She 329 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: kept repeating a few times that they were supposed to 330 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 1: be on the same team, and I think and then 331 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: she went back to Haisiana, and so I would want 332 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: to spend time with her talking about when was the 333 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: first time that she felt abandoned someone wasn't on her team, 334 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: how that was painful for her, UM, how does she 335 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: take steps now to make sure people don't do that 336 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: to her, and are those steps actually helping her towards 337 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: her goals of intimacy and connection, which I'm assuming is 338 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: why she would be there in the room. And if 339 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: it's not helping her, then how can we both validate 340 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: that pain and hurt without pushing away other people who 341 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: might be good partners and good loved ones to keep 342 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: into our lives. That sounds awesome. So what do you think, 343 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: UM would be some strategies that you would use around 344 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: like the owning her voice and the identity piece related 345 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: to activism. UM for owning your voice, I think just honestly, 346 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: I think it would just be providing a listening an 347 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: ear for her to play out all of the different 348 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: variations without feeling to need to choose. I think. I 349 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: think again, in her world, she there's a lot of absolutes. 350 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: Either you're with us, you're against us, And so for 351 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: her to just have the opportunity just to say whatever 352 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: and to be wrong and to do that self discovery. 353 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: Just offering a space for her to a nonnger's mental space, 354 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: it would be my best technique for her because I 355 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: feel like nova she she's already she's already very decisive 356 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, she doesn't have the problem of what do 357 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: I say? What do I do? It's just um, if 358 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: there's any guilt surrounding it, I would I would be 359 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: concerned about. And so something that you kind of touched 360 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: on that I think, UM likely a lot of listeners 361 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: struggle with and maybe don't even know what they that 362 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: they're struggling with or don't know the terminology for it. 363 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: Um you mentioned this whole um avoidant attachment style. Can 364 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: you say more about that and like what that looks 365 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: like in relationships or just in real life? Like how 366 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: would somebody know that they had an avoidant attachment style? Yeah, 367 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: So attachment styles UM are very own, very between people. 368 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: They is on how they grow up and the idea 369 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: of being that depending on what your relationship was like 370 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: with your primary caregiver, that's what shapes how you see 371 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: the world. So if I had a caregiver who was 372 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: there for me, who provide emotional encouragement whenever I needed it, 373 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: who kissed my boo boo when I got hurt, then 374 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: I grew up with a mindset or a perspective that 375 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: the world is safe, that I can trusted, that people 376 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: love me, that I can love myself. If I grew 377 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: up in a family where my caregivers are sometimes there 378 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: are not there where they might shame me for my feelings, 379 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 1: where I feel like I have to do things by myself, 380 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: where I UM I am treated as a burden, then 381 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have an attachment style that is called insecure. Now, 382 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: within that there's different variations. So with avoid it um, 383 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: people who are avoided, they learn basically to avoid relationships 384 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: is within the name. And so it's difficult getting close 385 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: to people, it's difficult trusting others. Um Uh. The way 386 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: that self protection works is to um criticize, which is 387 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: UM part of what I mentioned earlier. So and all 388 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: of the pop problems and conflicts that you have, you say, well, 389 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: I can't trust this person because of what they did here, 390 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: and I can't trust her because what she did there. 391 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: And you're seeing as a person who doesn't really have 392 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,680 Speaker 1: any other problems. And because of that, you can move 393 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: from relationships relationship to relationship without really having to look 394 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: at yourself. Um. And what's really um ironic about it 395 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: is at the same time that someone is pushing away 396 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: relationships UM. In the avoidance style, there also might be 397 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: this yearning for a relationship. There is this and that's 398 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: kind of what I see in Novo. She's not adverse 399 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: to being in a relationship. It's just it's hard for 400 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: her to be intimate and vulnerable and engage in that 401 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: conflict because what if I stay there and I try 402 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: to trust you, and then you hurt me again and 403 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: I ra They're just exit and get away from there, 404 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: um before you have the chance to do so. Yeah, 405 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: And it seems like maybe some of that is also 406 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: playing out in the relationship between her and Charlie. UM. 407 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: So we haven't talked a lot about that, and that 408 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: might not necessarily bring her into therapy because she likely 409 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: doesn't see a problem with the relationship she and Charlie have, UM. 410 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: But it does feel like there's some of that attachment 411 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: style stuff playing out in the relationship she has with 412 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: her sister. Yeah. Yeah, going back to one of your 413 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: original questions about things that happened in the past, I mean, 414 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: I wonder about if there was any competition between her 415 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: and Charlie as far as who's the most love and 416 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: who's not the most love and um. Also the dynamics 417 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: we saw with Charlie's mother being the one who she 418 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: felt stole her father from the family, you know, and 419 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: just all the unseid and unresolved issues that they They're 420 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: better than they were at the beginning of the show, 421 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: for sure. But um, I wonder if a lot of 422 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: the conversations they need to have having occourage yet, right, 423 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: I mean, because just kind of at the end of 424 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 1: last season we saw Nova have like when the mom 425 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 1: was able to say, like, actually, what you thought all 426 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: along was not the truth. It does feel like there 427 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: was a softening to her, like, oh my goodness, I 428 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: didn't know the whole story kind of thing. So I 429 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: think it will be interesting when it comes back for 430 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: the new season to kind of see where she is 431 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: with some of that and if that changes in any 432 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: way her relationship with Charlie for sure. Yeah. So for 433 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: any of our listeners who may be struggling with things 434 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,919 Speaker 1: that are similar to the kinds of things that um 435 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: nobody is struggling with, what kinds of tips or strategies 436 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: would you offer them to kind of, you know, maybe 437 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: make some progress in their own relationships. Yeah, So as 438 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: far as relationships, I would say to pay attention to 439 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: things if if you relate to a Nova in the 440 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: way of being avoided. I would pay attention to, how 441 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: do you avoid our exit? Um? One, are the ways 442 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: that you've find yourself leaving? Is it that? Or is 443 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: it romains relationships and you see that you're breaking up? 444 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: Is it that whenever you're get in a fight with 445 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: someone you just cut them off and move um? And 446 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: that's important to find the pattern and so that you 447 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: can change it. And then the second thing that I 448 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: would encourage you to pay attention to are the triggers 449 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: that lead you to that point, which which are the 450 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: conflicts that cause so much pain and distress inside of 451 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: you to where you're like, I don't want to deal 452 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: with this person or anyone like this person ever again, 453 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: because from there, I think you'll be able to find 454 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: your pain point if you already don't know what the 455 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: pain point is. And then once you're able to externalize 456 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: that in a way. And I think I'm starting to 457 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: get into some therapist talk, but it's like when you're 458 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: able to get to a place where you can say, Okay, 459 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: it's not really this person that's hurting me. I'm really 460 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: hurt and upset about this thing that happened to me 461 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: in the past. You're able to tolerate the conflict and 462 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: the stress and that relationship more because you realize it's 463 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: more about you then more about them. And from there, Um, 464 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: I would practice some communication techniques and learning how to 465 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: tell people what you need versus assuming that they know. 466 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: You know, people are mind readers, and just quickly to 467 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: go back to Nova, we see that a lot. She 468 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: gets hurt and she goes instead of telling people what 469 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: she needs. Yeah. I think that's one of the really 470 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: cool things about therapy, shea is this whole idea of 471 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: like being able to kind of go back in time 472 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: to kind of see how somebody's current behavior is really 473 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: a reaction to something that may have happened like twenty 474 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: years ago, and you just you have no awareness of it. 475 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: So talking with a good therapist who can kind of 476 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: connect those doubts where you really can make some huge 477 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: changes in how you show up in the world. Absolutely, 478 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: And I think also for anyone, UM, going back to 479 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: the relationships, I think, Um, you know with Nova you 480 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: have mentioned that this earlier too, just finding her voice 481 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: and finding out what works for her and what doesn't. 482 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: I wonder if Nova's clear on that herself. For as 483 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: strong enough decisive as she is that she actually knows 484 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: what she wants in a partner, what she does, and 485 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: which is why she'll engage in this relationship with the 486 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: white Mary cop and why she'll engage in this relationship 487 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: with this um intellectual um activists who has beliefs that 488 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: are contrary to her. So, I think if you're listening 489 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: and you keep finding partners who don't align with you, 490 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: is stopping and figure out what are my values? What 491 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 1: is it that I truly want? What are the actual 492 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: deal breakers? Um? Because you're not gonna find someone who's perfect, 493 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: because we all have our baguges and issues. But what 494 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: are the things that I know for share would be 495 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: a compromise of my value and my integrity and then 496 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: go going from there and that being the template that 497 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: you use for these relationships versus I like how this 498 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: person makes me feel in the moment. Those are some 499 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: really great tupes. So do you have any um like 500 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: resources that you would suggest for people who want to 501 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: learn more about what talking about or that would help 502 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: to to really deal with more of these, Like any 503 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: books or podcasts or websites that you really like that 504 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: you would suggest. Yeah, one of the first book is 505 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: a book that's actually already been recommended on your podcast before. 506 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: In that book is called Attached by a Mirror Lovine. 507 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: I'm only vest this last night, and the reason why 508 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: I really loved that book more than any of the 509 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: other books is because he really breaks down. I talked 510 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: about the avoid it and then I talked to I 511 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: didn't talk about but there's another UM type in this 512 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: book that calls kind of this love addiction, and that's 513 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: where you UM. Instead of you pushing people away, it's 514 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: the opposite. You run towards people who are not healthy 515 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: for you, and you try to cling onto them and 516 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: get them to love you. But I love this book 517 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: because it actually tells you practical steps that you can 518 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: engage in to UM to break that cycle and start 519 00:28:54,520 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: new new UM tips or new pathways UM. I didn't 520 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: get to mention earlier, but I still wanted to say. 521 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: One of the things that I think we're bringing over 522 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: into therapy, or one thing that she might actually UM 523 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: uncovered during her time, is just any unresolved grief with UM, 524 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: the passing of her mother and her father, which doesn't 525 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: seem like she's actually dealt with yet, and so UM 526 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: I was gonna recommend one of your earlier episodes about 527 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: managing grief with Dr Gita Robinson that was really great 528 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: and UM she talked about some tools with how to 529 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: manage grief UM and then other tools And this is 530 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: again based on just my lens with what I do 531 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: with relationships and people who are attracted to impossible partners 532 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: and people and sexualizing your pain UM. I I wanted 533 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: to recommend there's a there's a website called Suddenly Celibate 534 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: and dot com and there's this woman called James. Her 535 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: name is jas Downey and she talks about how she 536 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: would sexualize her pain and see partners to self suit 537 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: and how it wasn't good for her relationships and her 538 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: intimacy and the states the stuff she took to get better. 539 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: And so I think having someone share their story UM 540 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: and and learning from that would be really great. And 541 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: then also I have a podcast called Love Junkie and 542 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: I have an episode that talks about intimacy disorders and 543 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: love avoidance and love addiction UM for folks to check out. 544 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: And the last thing I would recommend is UM. I 545 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: also have a course called the Freedom Course and it's 546 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: it's it's of course, that helps you look at what 547 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: brings you to a place where you accept partners who 548 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: might not give you the love you deserve. And UM, 549 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: there's different activities where you look at your family life 550 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: patterns and the connections with the partners you choose, and 551 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: then also replacement skills UM instead of acting out in 552 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: those ways. And so that's also on my website at 553 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: Sina the Therapist dot com. So so you already jumped 554 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: the gun on Mechina, So I was gonna ask about any, um, 555 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: any like cool activities or things that you're doing as 556 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: a part of your practice and a part of your 557 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: work that you think people should check out. Yeah, so 558 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: definitely the Freedom course I think. I think for those 559 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: who might online more with their avoidance, UM is really 560 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: good because again you're looking at those family life patterns 561 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: and where it might be coming from, UM to help 562 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: you build some awareness around it. UM. Another cool thing 563 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: that I'm working on right now is I just started 564 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: a project called Black Girls Hell and UM. It's a 565 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: online community that is offering self help tools for women 566 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: for black women to help from unhealthy relationships and most 567 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: self esteem and trauma and a self paced kind of 568 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: coaching fashion and UM, and it's attached to Facebook group 569 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: that has weekly exercises for folks to do as well, 570 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: and so UM if anyone's interested. That um website is 571 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: called black Girls Hell dot org and it has all 572 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: the links to get to the Facebook group and um 573 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: different activities that will be posted. Very cool. So you 574 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: already mentioned the Black Girls Heal dot org. UM, but 575 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,479 Speaker 1: are there other websites that we can check out for 576 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: you and any social media handles that you want to share? Yeah, 577 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and give them all in order. 578 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: So my website is Shena the Therapist dot com and 579 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: that Shena with one E, and on that website there's 580 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: thanks to my podcast, the Love Junkie Podcast, and then 581 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: also um, there's different free workbooks on if you do 582 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: feel like you struggle with sexually compulsive behaviors or some 583 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: people call it a sex addiction, there's a free work 584 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: book for you to look at their on Instagram, I 585 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: am at Shena the Therapist dot com, Facebook Shena the 586 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: Therapist and my Twitter is Shena Therapy and then for 587 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: black girls he'll is black Girls Heill dot org and 588 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: the Instagram and Facebook name are both black Girls. He'll 589 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: but if you're looking for the Facebook group um that 590 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: titles black Girls Hill Group Perfect And of course all 591 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: of this information will be included in the shows. For 592 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: anybody who may be driving and can't take notes on 593 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: all of that, you can find all of that information 594 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: in the show notes for the episode. Well, thank you 595 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: so much for sharing your expertise with us today, Shena. 596 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thanks Joy for having me. This 597 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: is fun. You're welcome. Thank you didn't Shena share some 598 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: great information that helps you to think about Nova a 599 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: little deeper. If you aren't already watching that, definitely hope 600 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: you'll tune in. We're right in the middle of the 601 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: two days season three premiere, so you still have a 602 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: little bit of time to catch up. If you've been 603 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: missing out. To check out all the amazing resources she shared, 604 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot 605 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: com slash Session fifty nine, and please be sure to 606 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: share your thoughts about the episode with us on social media. 607 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: You can use the hashtag tv G in session and 608 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: you can also tag our accounts. You can find us 609 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Therapy for the Number four be Girls, 610 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: and you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at 611 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls. If you're looking for a therapist 612 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: in your area, visit the therapist directory at Therapy for 613 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want 614 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: to continue this conversation and join a community of other 615 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: sisters who listen to the podcast, join us over in 616 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 1: the Thrive tribe at Therapy for Black Girls dot com 617 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: slash tribe. Make sure that you answer the three questions 618 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: it has to gain injury. Thank y'all again for joining 619 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: me this week, and I look forward to continue in 620 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. Take it care, 621 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: Actor I, Actor doctor doctor Actor Ott