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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and today in the show, I am joined

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Speaker 1: by legendary big woods tracker Hall Blood to recap my

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Speaker 1: recent hunt in Maine and the lessons I learned about

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Speaker 1: tracking deer in the snow. All right, welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light,

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Speaker 1: and today's episode is one that I have been wanting

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Speaker 1: to share for a long time. This has been a

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Speaker 1: story I've hoped I would get to experience and hoped

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Speaker 1: I get to share someday. For years now, I've talked

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Speaker 1: about going up to Maine or somewhere in the Northeast

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Speaker 1: and trying to track down deer in the snow. Right,

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Speaker 1: This whole idea of finding a big track and walking

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Speaker 1: it down over miles and miles of big woods terrain,

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Speaker 1: this is just it just seemed like one of the

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Speaker 1: coolest ways to hunt ever. I think for two or

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Speaker 1: three years I've been saying, Hey, this year, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do it, and then it fell through, and then the

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Speaker 1: next year I'm like, Okay, this is the year I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do it, and then it fell through. Well, finally

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Speaker 1: it actually happened. I did it. I've had this experience,

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Speaker 1: and today I want to share that story with you,

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Speaker 1: as well as everything I learned about how to do

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Speaker 1: it and help me do it is hell Blood. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you've been listening to the podcast this fall, you

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Speaker 1: probably have an idea of what I've been doing and

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Speaker 1: why I went and visited with somebody like hell Blood.

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Speaker 1: But let me give you the real quick recap. My

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Speaker 1: season this year has been mostly devoted to traveling across

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Speaker 1: the country to hunt in brand new places in brand

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Speaker 1: new ways, and I've been meeting with a local expert

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Speaker 1: in each place to figure out what it is they do.

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Speaker 1: So in this case, I met up with Hail Blood

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Speaker 1: in Maine, and I wanted Hale to show me how

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Speaker 1: he tracks deer down in the snow. So we met up,

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Speaker 1: spent a day together. I've followed in his footsteps, asking

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Speaker 1: him a thousand questions, basically doing a podcast in person

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Speaker 1: while we're out there doing the thing. So I got

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Speaker 1: to see exactly how he tries to track down deer

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Speaker 1: in the snow. And then after that day together, I

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Speaker 1: was going to head out on my own and try

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Speaker 1: to see if I could put it into action, getting

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Speaker 1: pig these ideas and pull off this kind of hunt myself.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I tried to do. Back towards the

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Speaker 1: third third week of November, I think it was. That's

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Speaker 1: when I did it. And Man, without giving away too much,

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Speaker 1: I will tell you this, it was a hell of

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Speaker 1: an experience. I mean learned a ton, I got to

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Speaker 1: spend some really fun days in beautiful country and Uh.

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Speaker 1: In short, I'm definitely going to be using these new

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Speaker 1: tactics in the future. So we've got Hail here on

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Speaker 1: the show. In just a couple of minutes. Hale is

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Speaker 1: gonna help us walk through everything we did, share a

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Speaker 1: lot of insight and strategies and tactics that anyone listening

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Speaker 1: to this will be able to use and put into

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Speaker 1: action in your own neck of the woods. If you

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Speaker 1: have big woods train like this, if you have snow

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Speaker 1: like this, I think you'll be able to learn a lot.

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Speaker 1: I've also got my two cameramen who were following me around, uh,

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Speaker 1: capturing all of this for our new show. So we've

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Speaker 1: got Dylan Lens and Jimmy Michaels, who will be able

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Speaker 1: to add some different perspectives, some look, you know, some context,

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Speaker 1: some color, and fact check me on anything if I

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Speaker 1: miss something. So that's the game plan. I hope you

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Speaker 1: guys enjoy this one. I certainly did. Let's get into

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Speaker 1: my chat with Hail Blood, one of the absolute legends

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Speaker 1: in the Big Woods deer track and world, a registered

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Speaker 1: main guide and one of the best out there. You

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Speaker 1: can also learn more about him. We'll make sure to

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Speaker 1: talk abouts at the end, but I want to say

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Speaker 1: at the beginning to he's the host of the Big

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Speaker 1: Woods Bucks podcast YouTube series. He's got classes, he uh books,

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Speaker 1: guided hunts, he does it all. So if you like

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Speaker 1: what you're here today, there's definitely more out there. So now,

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Speaker 1: for real, without further ado, my chat with Hail, Dylan

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Speaker 1: and Jimmy all right now with me on the line

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Speaker 1: to discuss this, uh, this pretty epic trip. We've got

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Speaker 1: Hell Blood, Dylan Lens and Jimmy Michael's or Jimmer as

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Speaker 1: we like to call him. And uh, rather than rather

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Speaker 1: than doing like the four people kind of beating around

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Speaker 1: the bush and saying hey, it's good to be here,

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Speaker 1: and people talking over each other, I'm just gonna skip

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Speaker 1: that part and I want to jump just right into

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Speaker 1: the really good stuff because there's a lot to talk

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Speaker 1: about on this X. You know, this expedition of sorts

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Speaker 1: um As, as you three already know, and as people

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Speaker 1: listening her just a little bit about as they introduced

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Speaker 1: this whole idea, you know, the gist of what we're

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Speaker 1: hoping to do on this trip was to come and

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Speaker 1: meet up with you, Hal, spend a day, learn about

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Speaker 1: what you do and how you do it when it

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Speaker 1: comes to track and do here, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: take everything I learned from that day and then go

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Speaker 1: out on my own for three more days and try

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Speaker 1: to pull it off myself. That was the hope and

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Speaker 1: the dream, showing up in Maine, praying for snow and

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Speaker 1: hoping we could do this thing. Um Now, where I

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Speaker 1: want to start, Hal, is what you were thinking about

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Speaker 1: leading into the trip, because we kind of told you, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is our dream, this is our idea, this is

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Speaker 1: what we'd like to do, you know, would you help

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Speaker 1: us out? And you were so kind as to agree.

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Speaker 1: But when you looked at the forecast coming up as

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Speaker 1: we were about to get there, when you were out

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Speaker 1: there hunting yourself in those days leading up to it,

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Speaker 1: how were you feeling about things? What were you thinking

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Speaker 1: about our chances and how we were actually going to

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Speaker 1: pull this off when maybe conditions and are it seemingly

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Speaker 1: they're a little a little less than ideal, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot less than ideal. That's really just I was

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Speaker 1: actually even before that week, I was thinking that, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you talked about, you know, the limited time you had.

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Speaker 1: That makes it tough anyways, because I tell people to

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Speaker 1: be Fanny yourself. Coming up here a week is a

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Speaker 1: good start because most people, you know, they get a

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Speaker 1: week maybe to go on a huddle whatever. But in

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Speaker 1: reality up in this country, you know it yourself, take

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Speaker 1: two weeks straight ahead. They have you know, a decent

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Speaker 1: chance of you know, killing a buck, or even a

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Speaker 1: decent chance of having a few days with a good conditions,

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Speaker 1: because that's the reality. I mean, you can have you

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Speaker 1: can have snow, but that doesn't mean it's good tracking snow.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know you've seen some of that. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had a little snow, but it wasn't there wasn't

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Speaker 1: no way is near ideal. So and those are the

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Speaker 1: days that's you know, it's higher a lot higher to

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Speaker 1: the killer Buck on days like that. So that was

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Speaker 1: my first thought was, really, it isn't much time to

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Speaker 1: try to you know, really have a good chance at it.

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Speaker 1: But when we had to try it anyway, so and

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Speaker 1: then when I saw the conditions, I mean we had

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Speaker 1: basically we had pretty pretty dismal conditions the whole season

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Speaker 1: until the end of Thanksgiving week we finally got a

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Speaker 1: nice shot of snow kind of everywhere and it made

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Speaker 1: a Muslo the season week a pretty good week. But

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Speaker 1: going into that week there was only snow and like

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Speaker 1: some of the higher elevations along the borders and you know,

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Speaker 1: places like that. So I had to go try to

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Speaker 1: find a place to take you because what happens when

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Speaker 1: we get those type of conditions with limited snow, it

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Speaker 1: kind of crowds people to those places. In other words,

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Speaker 1: if if you've got two or three mountains it's got

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Speaker 1: snow half way up them, well they're going to have

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Speaker 1: ten times a hunting pressure because people come up here

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Speaker 1: they want to get on snow, so they all run

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Speaker 1: to them mountains. So I don't like to hunt those

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Speaker 1: places like that, you know, when there's other people around,

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Speaker 1: So I went and looked for a place we could

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Speaker 1: go where I felt we probably wouldn't have anybody else around,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't, and I took a chance on a place.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it get some of that early snow, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes it doesn't. But fortunately it it had some, which

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Speaker 1: made it at least we could follow tracks. I can

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Speaker 1: say that way we could follow tracks. Now you talked

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Speaker 1: about how even though we were able to find some snow,

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Speaker 1: you still didn't feel like it was ideal for this

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Speaker 1: kind of hunt, Like, what's the absolute ideal situation? What

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Speaker 1: do you if you could paint the perfect scenario when

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Speaker 1: it came to the conditions, what would that have been. Well,

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Speaker 1: really nice conditions are when you get several inches of

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Speaker 1: snow anyways that that covers the ground enough to make

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Speaker 1: it quiet. So if you get it depends if it's

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Speaker 1: wet snow, damp snow, and dry fluffy snow. You know

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Speaker 1: it takes more of the dry snow to do that

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Speaker 1: than the damp snow because underneath you, you know, you've

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Speaker 1: got all kinds of sticks in the woods, and this

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Speaker 1: because obviously the snow covers the stick so you can't

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Speaker 1: see him. So you're gonna be stepping on a lot

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Speaker 1: of them. So you need enough snow to kind of

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Speaker 1: mufflo sounds. And you know, if it's wet snow, a

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Speaker 1: couple inches will help because of the sticks are damp

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Speaker 1: and they don't make as much noise. But dry snow

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Speaker 1: it's more like four to six inches. You know. If

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Speaker 1: you get four to six inches, it really quiets the

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Speaker 1: woods down. Uh, if it's hanging in the trees, it

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Speaker 1: muffles the sound. The sound doesn't carry through the woods

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Speaker 1: like it would on a you know days when there's

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Speaker 1: no snow on the limbs, clear crisp days. And so

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Speaker 1: that's kind of it. You gotta, you gotta. It's gotta

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Speaker 1: be quiet because you know, one of them ada can

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Speaker 1: hear you for a hundred yards if not, you know,

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Speaker 1: so it's just trying to get near one. It's difficult,

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Speaker 1: you know. And the other part that makes it ideal,

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Speaker 1: especially if you have ma original snow, you know, just

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Speaker 1: a little snow or it's it's uh more noisy as

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Speaker 1: something is wind. So I I call if we get

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Speaker 1: a couple inches of snow and we've got a nice

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Speaker 1: wind with the trees a sway and a little and

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Speaker 1: there's leaves are rattling around, you know, with the dead

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Speaker 1: leaves on the trees, and I call those those are

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Speaker 1: the buck killing days right there, because that is taken

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Speaker 1: away the advantage that that a buck has, you know,

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Speaker 1: because obviously they can hear better than us, they can smell,

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Speaker 1: and they can not that they see great if you

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Speaker 1: don't move, but they pick up movement probably quicker than

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Speaker 1: what you do. So the wind takes care of all

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Speaker 1: of that because if the trees are moving and the

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Speaker 1: leaves are shaken, that puts some movement in the woods,

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Speaker 1: so they don't pick up on your movement as quick

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Speaker 1: it uh. The wind and the things rattling around helps

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Speaker 1: cover your noise and it also makes it so your

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Speaker 1: sense not gonna get anywhere, you know, if it's if

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Speaker 1: it's a windy day, you your scent don't probably get

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Speaker 1: ten feet from you, you know. So that's ideal conditions.

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Speaker 1: That's how you have to paint it out for an

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Speaker 1: ideal day, like I said, a buck killing day. And

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, we don't get very many of those days

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Speaker 1: in a season, even in the season when there's when

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Speaker 1: there is snow, you don't have those ideal conditions at often, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we we never really had quite that set of

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Speaker 1: conditions in the four days. We had another thing though,

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Speaker 1: that I imagine you thought was not ideal. But what

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Speaker 1: did you think when we showed up for day one

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Speaker 1: and you realize there was gonna be four of us

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Speaker 1: trying to do this altogether? So you me and two cameramen?

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Speaker 1: What did you think about that as far as our chances?

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Speaker 1: I thought we're just gonna be taking a walk in

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Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah, yeah, definitely not ideal on that front. Um.

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Speaker 1: So speaking of the camera and uh, Jimmer Dylan, when

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Speaker 1: you we showed up in Maine and you got to

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Speaker 1: see the area we're gonna be hiking around in, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what what were you thinking about this hunt? What were

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Speaker 1: your thoughts? Kind of preliminarily, Jimmy, if you want to

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Speaker 1: start about our chances, about what you thought about what

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Speaker 1: we're getting ourselves into. What was your take? Well, growing

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Speaker 1: up in the Midwest, I was very used to more posting,

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Speaker 1: waiting for the deer to come to us. Um, this

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Speaker 1: is this was brand new, having to stalk a deer

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Speaker 1: basically looking for the tracks and then going after it.

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Speaker 1: I honestly didn't know what to expect. I was somewhat

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Speaker 1: familiar with the terrain and Maine, but not not exactly

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Speaker 1: where we were going. What about you dealing? You know,

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Speaker 1: it was it was beautiful showing up there and you know,

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Speaker 1: hoping we would get more snow, but you know, having

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Speaker 1: to work with the conditions we had made it for obviously,

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Speaker 1: but just you know, the idea was stalking a white

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Speaker 1: tail and then adding a camera person or two camera people,

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Speaker 1: you know, just made it seem like a colossal feat

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Speaker 1: um coming into it, you know, I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: the first time I've ever done a spot and stock

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Speaker 1: white tail hunt, you know, to try and film it.

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Speaker 1: You know, usually if you're doing it for Mule or

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Speaker 1: something like that, you have a lot of terrain to

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Speaker 1: play with where you know, you can hide your sound

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Speaker 1: and your your site a lot better. So just coming

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Speaker 1: into it just seemed like a daunting task. But it

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Speaker 1: was pretty exciting to be there and you're right now,

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Speaker 1: and it was just beautiful, you know, especially that first day,

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Speaker 1: Like we showed up at night the first night and

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Speaker 1: where you know, I don't think there's any snow down

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Speaker 1: at camp, but we were hoping, and how you told

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Speaker 1: us that there was a chance that you know, there

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Speaker 1: should still be snow up to this other area where

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Speaker 1: you had been walking around the previous couple of days.

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Speaker 1: And we showed up there that first morning and it

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Speaker 1: started get the light out and we could see that yes,

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Speaker 1: in fact, there was some snow and you can see

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Speaker 1: the rolling hills and the big timber and I mean

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Speaker 1: it was it was everything as advertised. It was. It

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Speaker 1: was what you dream of when you think of going

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Speaker 1: up into the woods of Maine. Uh, just as a beautiful,

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Speaker 1: beautiful first day. Um. But one thing you know that

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Speaker 1: was interested in me, how was the fact that you know,

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Speaker 1: you chose to drive right to a place and start hiking. Um,

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Speaker 1: and start hiking before he found any tracks. I've talked

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Speaker 1: to some people in the past that prefer driving around

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Speaker 1: until they find tracks crossing the road and then go

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Speaker 1: from there. Can you talk about your preference between you know,

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Speaker 1: driving back roads so you find a track versus hiking

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Speaker 1: to find a track, and what the pros and cons

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Speaker 1: of would be either approached. Yeah. I mean what I

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Speaker 1: tell people is is for every for every buck track

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Speaker 1: you see across the road, there's ten more that didn't

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Speaker 1: cross the road. So your roads are picking up a

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Speaker 1: track in the woods. Uh, basically we ten times better, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's why I do that. I mean just riding

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Speaker 1: around randomly and and for one thing you gotta remember

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Speaker 1: is you got a hundred other people doing the same

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Speaker 1: thing on most of the roads as people. That's that's

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Speaker 1: all they do do. So your odds are getting the

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Speaker 1: track anyway, unless you some of these guys, it's like

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Speaker 1: a it's like off to the races in the morning.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's who who gets say the earliest in

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Speaker 1: driving around. Some guys at four o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 1: a good two hours or more before daylight looking for

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Speaker 1: a track, and you know then if they find one,

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Speaker 1: they camp out on it, I guess. But I just

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Speaker 1: that makes a long day trying to do that. And

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Speaker 1: you know, even if you do find one, So I

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Speaker 1: just I just never do that. It's I can. I

293
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Speaker 1: can almost always find it a good big track that

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Speaker 1: I want to be on in the woods. I really

295
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Speaker 1: rarely find one of those good big ones from the road.

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Speaker 1: It's just a it's an absolute bonus if I do.

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Speaker 1: And if I do, it's just usually because I found

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Speaker 1: one on the way to where I was gonna go anyway.

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Speaker 1: So I just my plan in the morning is is

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Speaker 1: to get where I want to be at daylight and

301
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Speaker 1: head in the woods. So I'll be driving. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I might drive twenty minutes from my house, I might

303
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Speaker 1: drive an hour, but I just plan on being there

304
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Speaker 1: at daylight, and I'll check the tracks on the way.

305
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Speaker 1: If I see a track in the road, I'll get

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Speaker 1: out and size it up. And it's like I said,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a bonus if I find one from

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Speaker 1: the road, uh, that I want to take, you know,

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Speaker 1: A big, big enough one that I want to take. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the only advantage I can see of driving and finding

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Speaker 1: the track driving, there's no advantage because your your odds

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Speaker 1: are a lot less to even finding one. But the

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Speaker 1: one thing is if you do, you're fresh when you

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Speaker 1: get on it, you know, because I might walk half

315
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Speaker 1: the day sometimes finding a track, Well, I've put on

316
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Speaker 1: by six seven miles already, so you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: that fresh when I get on at the start with,

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Speaker 1: you know, And so it makes it, it makes it.

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Speaker 1: H I hired a job to try to catch up

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Speaker 1: to that buck, you know. So, but that's the only

321
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Speaker 1: advantage I could see is that you'd be fresh when

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Speaker 1: you get on it, and maybe it's you could be fresh,

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Speaker 1: but you might not be in shape because I think

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Speaker 1: the guys that go ride the trucks all day long

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Speaker 1: looking for tracks, they don't get any exercise, so they're

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Speaker 1: not ready for the task anyway. You know, Yeah, that

327
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Speaker 1: was that was definitely shocking for me. I definitely thought

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Speaker 1: we were going to be spending a lot more time

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Speaker 1: driving roads in the truck. And then you know, for

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Speaker 1: day one, I think we put on what eight nine miles? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I think nine three quarter miles that we got to

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Speaker 1: my expectation. Yeah, yeah, so hell. One of the things

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Speaker 1: I was curious about when I started taking off on

334
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 1: my own and was interested in when you started on

335
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: that first day with us, was just how you plan

336
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Speaker 1: the route you're gonna take. So you're going in blind

337
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 1: to a place we haven't found a track yet. You

338
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: you picked a destination where you want to park your

339
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Speaker 1: truck and then you said, all right, we're gonna take

340
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Speaker 1: a hike and hope we cross the track. How do

341
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,400
Speaker 1: you plan a route? How do you think through where

342
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: you should go walking around to hopefully pick up a track? Um?

343
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: I always planned my My routes around like a big circle.

344
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: Whether I'm still hunting a track, no matter what I'm doing,

345
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: I make a big circle for the day. I don't.

346
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,400
Speaker 1: I don't say I'm gonna circle here for an hour

347
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Speaker 1: and try something else. Once in a while, I'll go

348
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Speaker 1: in and I'll say I'll spend a half a day

349
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Speaker 1: in this spot, because that's the size it is. You know,

350
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 1: where I think I can find a track, but it's

351
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: usually an all day thing. I'll start out for the

352
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Speaker 1: day and I'll just walk a huge circle, which might

353
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,800
Speaker 1: be a ten mile circle, and it usually consists of

354
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Speaker 1: either side of a mountain, uh all the way around

355
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Speaker 1: a mountain, or maybe it's not a mountain, maybe it's

356
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: just ridges. But I just kind of I just kind

357
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: of want to circle a big area where I think

358
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: a buck might be coming and going from to get

359
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 1: to the dos because during the idea season in November,

360
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: that's basically what they're up to is checking on them does.

361
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: Whether it's just before the rout when we start, or

362
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 1: during the rout, it's gonna their travel patterns that are

363
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: affected by where the does are located. So that's what

364
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,439
Speaker 1: I do. I just make a big circle for the day, okay,

365
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: And I remember that first that first spot we started,

366
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: we kind of walked up old logging road I think

367
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,440
Speaker 1: was gonna take us up towards this ridge. And then,

368
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 1: like you said, you mentioned that we'll just kind of

369
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 1: walk a big loop up around this area. But it

370
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,720
Speaker 1: didn't take too terribly long and we started walking and

371
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: within less than a hundred yards we saw some fawn tracks,

372
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: and then then there was a bigger track, but a

373
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 1: pretty old one, and then I don't know, within a

374
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: half hour of walking, I think maybe we came upon

375
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,879
Speaker 1: a track that you know, you thought, um was interesting.

376
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,080
Speaker 1: But there was one thing that I was curious about

377
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 1: before we got to that point, and it was the

378
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: fact that we were cruising and we're hiking through the

379
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: woods fast, we were making noise um, and I remember

380
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: asking you, Hail, you know, do we need to be

381
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: more quiet? Do we do you want us to be?

382
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: You know, should we be in stealth mode or or

383
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 1: do we just just ram through the woods like this

384
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: not caring? And you gave me your perspective there, but

385
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: could you tell us now, you know, what's your take

386
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: on when you're searching for a track, do you worry

387
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: about making noise or do you just cover ground? No,

388
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: I just cover ground. If you're if you're worried about

389
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: making noise, you can't cover as much ground. So I

390
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: just I'm not worried about making noise until I think

391
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: I'm near a deer anyway, So there's a lot of

392
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: space between the deer up in this country, so I

393
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. Yeah. So then we did find

394
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: that track. Then we were going fast, we're making a racket.

395
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: We found a track and you took a look at

396
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: You kind of walked off the side of the trail,

397
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: looked at a couple of tracks, and you said, I

398
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: think this one's good enough. Um. That moment, this part

399
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: of the hunt was one that I was most interested in,

400
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: maybe of all, which is like the analysis of a track. Um,

401
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: when you were can at that track? Can you walk

402
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: me through? I guess this is this is an interesting

403
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: What do you look at first? Do you look at size?

404
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: Do you try to determinely is this a big enough

405
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: deer first? Or do you look at is this a

406
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: fresh enough track? First? What's the first thing you study

407
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: before you then advanced to the next question. Well, it's

408
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: probably a combination. I mean, it depends if if it's

409
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: a new snow, like if it's just the snow has

410
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: only been made that day or the day before and

411
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: the night it is. To me it is a fresh track,

412
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna I'm gonna size it up. But um,

413
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: basically it's gotta be you know, I like the Even

414
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: if it's a big track, I'm gonna look at it

415
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: and maybe think about how old it has to be

416
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: for him not gonna take it, which is usually two

417
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 1: days old. If it's it's made two nights before, I

418
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: won't take it. I call a fresh track a track

419
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: that's made in the night the previous eight So I'm

420
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: obviously I'm looking in the morning, and if it was

421
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: made sometime in the night, whether it's four hours old

422
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: or twelve hours old, to me, it's still a fresh track.

423
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: And most of the time I can catch that buck

424
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: that day most most of the time, So to me,

425
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: it's a freck crack. And then I I, uh, I

426
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: looked for the size, and I'm I'm more particular than

427
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: most people. So if the people that are listening, don't,

428
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't think, don't don't try to go by my

429
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: expectation of the size of a track, because you'll get

430
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: discouraged because obviously the big old tracks made by the

431
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: big old bucks, and they're the smartest ones to try

432
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: to to try to kill. And that's not the way

433
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: to begin, you know, You've got to begin on, you know,

434
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: a younger buck maybe, uh, you know, to get some

435
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: experience with it. But I look for tracks here and

436
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: and I idea of the northern Borealis and they have

437
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: the biggest, the biggest feet than any of the other

438
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: white tail species, so you know we do have they

439
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: have big, big feet on them. So I'm looking for

440
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: a tract. It's I call them a three by three

441
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: three inches wide by three inches long. But theydn't have

442
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: a square like that. They usually if they're three inches wide,

443
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: they usually at least three and a half long, some

444
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: of them four. I have seen him four and a half.

445
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: So that's the tracks I'm looking for. And they've gotta

446
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: be toes got me around me. You took out of

447
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: your pocket, you just grabbed I think it was like

448
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: the lip bomb, you know, can or you just threw

449
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: that in the track real quick enough the air you

450
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: know here, you know, us new to this area was

451
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: looking at tracks, you know, a foreign language, and you

452
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: basically just read them like, yep, this is a big deal,

453
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: let's follow it. Yeah. Well, I've seen thousands of them,

454
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, and I've studied thousands of them. I followed

455
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: thousands of them, so it's pretty easy to see right off.

456
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: So it's like I said, it's it's the size in

457
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: the shape. A lot of the shape is like I

458
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: said that, I want to see that the toes around it,

459
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: because those are the old bucks, the pointed told bucks

460
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: on old usually unless it's a huge buck that maybe

461
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, I've seen the ones that then well,

462
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: I guess people might call them swamp box, but they

463
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: list live in areas where it's not rugged putting, you know,

464
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: it's not rocks and stuff in the ridges and ledges

465
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: that where their feet. They may have a little more

466
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: pointed toe, but generally those toes are going to be

467
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: arounded off by the time they get you know, five,

468
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: six seventy years old. They're gonna they're gonna be around

469
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: and then the other thing that happens with them where

470
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: their feet is the toes won't won't go together anymore.

471
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: In other words, the print won't be like a hot

472
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: shaped print. There's gonna be a space in between the

473
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: two toes, and the bigger that spaces is usually an

474
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: indication of the older box. And I've seen that space

475
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: between them just in a normal walk, the almost an inch.

476
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: Those are huge bucks, you know. And it's it's because

477
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: their feet uh wearing out, that sprung out, the tendons

478
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: are stretched or whatever it is, and they just don't

479
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: go back together. So I those are ones I call

480
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: square toad box because when you look in the print,

481
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: the print itself looks square instead of pointed because them

482
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: two them two toes are sticking straight ahead. And that's

483
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: the back feet, which when you look at a track

484
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: of a buckets just walking a normal walk, you're looking

485
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: at the rear. The clear print you see is the

486
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: back foot because they, like any of those animals like that,

487
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: they they step for step back foot into their front

488
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: feet when they walk, so you're not getting a clear

489
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: a clear picture of the front foot, which is bigger.

490
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: The front feet are bigger than the back feet on

491
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: any of the day you look at them. The moose

492
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: of the same way, you take the feet and compare

493
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: them in the front feet are much bigger, so the

494
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: back foot is smaller. So when you're looking at that,

495
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: you always keep that in mind that you're looking at

496
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: the smaller the feet anyway, and when you see that

497
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: that is really big. And then you get a look

498
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: at the front foot, like he stops to feed or

499
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: turn or do something. When he sticks a front foot

500
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: out there, you're gonna see how much bigger those feet are.

501
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: You know. Now, what about for someone who's trying to

502
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: do this for the first time, like I was, how

503
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: would you go about identifying the track of a beginner buck,

504
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: let's call it a younger buck. What what does that

505
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: contract look like? And how do you differentiate that from

506
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: a dough? Well, for a new person, it's going to

507
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: be hard to differentiate from a dough because like a

508
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: yelling buck, he doesn't really his new clause pronounced as

509
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: much yet. So I just tell people, when you're new

510
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: at it, if the track is by itself and it's

511
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: as long as it's not a tiny track like those

512
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: on tracks we saw, but if it's a if it's

513
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: a regular sized deer track and it's by itself, just

514
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: follow it because what you're doing is your practice in

515
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: any ways, and if you get a look at it

516
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: and it's a dough, at least you've accomplished pie of

517
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: what you set out to do. You tracked a deer

518
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: and saw it right, so you're getting some practice. Um.

519
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: It might be a yielding bucket, might be a spike, horn, crotch,

520
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: or a little six point or whatever it is. If

521
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: you if you're a new person, if he caught up

522
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: to one of those and could shoot it, it's a

523
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: big accomplishment. You know, You've you've done something that the

524
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: hunters can't do. I wouldn't do. We haven't done, you know.

525
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: So that's how you get started. When you do like

526
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: I said, you don't start out trying to take the

527
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: biggest track in the wood. I mean, I'm not saying

528
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: don't take it if you find it, but but don't

529
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: walk around and whatever all day long just looking for

530
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: the great, biggest track. And sometimes the mother other tracks

531
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: take you to a big track. So if you're on

532
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: a average size track, you might come across the bigger

533
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: one and you can always switch off onto that one,

534
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, it's our day unfold,

535
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, as you go along throughout a day, strange

536
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: things happen the day unfolds, and you never know what's

537
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: gonna happen. When you following a buck, you know, you

538
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: just you don't know where he's gonna take you. You

539
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: don't know what he's gonna do. But at least he's

540
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: showing you all that stuff. That's a that's the fun

541
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: part about track and as you I call it, you

542
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: live in the life of that buck. You're getting to

543
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: see exactly what that buck did. It's written in the

544
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: snow for you. Where he went, what he did, if

545
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,479
Speaker 1: he checked, does he said, if he laid down you

546
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: you get to figure out all the things about what

547
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: he did and trying to figure out why you did him.

548
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, that was one of my favorite things

549
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: was just seeing that story written in the snow and

550
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like pulling a curtain back and

551
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: you get to see behind the scenes of what these

552
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: deer actually do. That was that was fascinating the whole week.

553
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: Getting to walk in the footprints of a deer and

554
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: see see that world was was really cool. Now. One

555
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: of the things though, that I found the toughest to

556
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: figure out was was understanding how fresh was fresh enough,

557
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: Like when I eventually went off on my own. That

558
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 1: was something that kept coming back to. I look at

559
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: a track of like, man, was this last night? Was

560
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: this yesterday? Like that different? I could tell what was

561
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: like really old, and I could tell it was really fresh.

562
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: But there was this middle ground where I would be

563
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: back and forth him and Han on it. And and

564
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: you had talked about when we crossed that first track,

565
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: you said you want a crispy track. Uh, can you

566
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: can you describe again for us what that means, like

567
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: what a crispy track looks like in your eyes, and

568
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: then walk us through anything else that helps you determine

569
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: that the track is fresh enough to go on. Because

570
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: this is easier said than done, I think, yeah, that's

571
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: the highest part. Aging a track is the highest prid

572
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: of tracking. Whether you're trying to age one that's made

573
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: last night of the night before, or you might be

574
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: trying to age one that's fifteen minutes old instead of

575
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: two hours old. You know, that's that's the hardest part

576
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: of track. And then that's that's just takes experience. I

577
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: can tell you what it looks like to me, but

578
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: and guarantee it ain't gonna look like that to you.

579
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because you have to you

580
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: have the first we see enough of them to get

581
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: that information into you, INDI your brain. But a crispy

582
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: track to me, well, first of all, the track changes tracking,

583
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: the snow changes immediately after it's made. It's either it's

584
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: doing two things. It's either let's either melting if it's

585
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: above thirty two, or it's freezing if it's blow thirty two.

586
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: And if it's right at thirty two, that's the only

587
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: time that it stays the same for a long time.

588
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: So either side of that, the track is changing. And

589
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: usually once the snow is on the ground, it's most

590
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: of the time it's freezing. You know, it's below that

591
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: thirty two degree mark. Snow is not mounting or whatever.

592
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: And when you first they the track is first made,

593
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: it's h They'll be dust, you know, there'll be snow

594
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: kicked the pushed up in front of it, you know,

595
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: as they dragged your feet along or whatever. This snow say,

596
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: it's powdery snow and it's fluffed out in the front,

597
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: and that looks That's why I call it's crispy, because

598
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: it looks like it just happened, looks like you just

599
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: throw some sugar on the floor or something, you know,

600
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: and it hasn't changed yet, you know, it hasn't had

601
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: time to. When I say freezing, it's really uh, it's evaporating.

602
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: Like if you if you put a if you have

603
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: one of you know, all the freezes now we're like

604
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: frost frey. You know, if you've got your ice boxes,

605
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: you in your refrigerator, it's if you leave your ice

606
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: cubes in the ice tray so long, what happens to them?

607
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: They just they disappear. I don't think if you left

608
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: them in there for a long time, because they evaporated away. Well,

609
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: it's the same thing happens in the snow when it's

610
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,959
Speaker 1: actually happens quicker and snow than it does in solid ice.

611
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: So it'll start to round out like the edge where

612
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: it steps through the snow. When it's fresh, that edge

613
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: will be real shop like real shop edge. And then

614
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: it's gonna start withering, blending in melt, freezing and and

615
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: just rounding over kind And it's subtle. It's not like

616
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna see it immediately. It's really subtle. And then

617
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: it's a different length of time if it's twenty degrees

618
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: or from if it's zero degrees. So it's almost like

619
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: you've got to have a slide and rule or something

620
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: and calculate that out. But you have to do it

621
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: in your mind, and it's through experience, and that's the

622
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: only way you can do it, is gain that experience.

623
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: So in the beginning, I guess you're gonna asked quite

624
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 1: a bit. So, yeah, the other way. The other way

625
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 1: you can tell a little bit closer, as if if

626
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: it steps in the wet ground, even if it's frozen

627
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: and the snows powder and it's frozen ground, there's a

628
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: lot of in this would see, there's a lot of

629
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: wet ground in the wood. So a little trickles and

630
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: they stepped into water wet ground. You'll see how much

631
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: the ice is made in the track. It might be

632
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: water in the track. How frozen is it? Is it

633
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: half an inch thick? Is it? Uh, sixteenth of an

634
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: inch thick? You know? And then guessed by the temperature,

635
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: hold it might be. You know, it's just a guess. Anyways,

636
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: in the beginning, you just trying to think about it.

637
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: But um, well that's just the thing you have to do. Yeah,

638
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: And like you said, it it seems like just reps

639
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,319
Speaker 1: seems to be the most important thing because I when

640
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: I was starting I I've realized real quickly that I

641
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: had never paid this much attention to a track, just

642
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: to a snowy track before. So I just didn't have

643
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: a set of I didn't have a context to compare

644
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: one too. So I was looking at a track and

645
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, man, this this certainly seems fresh compared to

646
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: the other things we've seen today. But I don't have

647
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: a whole catalog of tracks I can look back through

648
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: over years and think to myself, Okay, I saw this

649
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 1: one and confirmed it was a deer that was there

650
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: that day, and I saw this kind of track and

651
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: this ended up being a deal. It was right in

652
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: front of me, and I didn't have that experience based

653
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: to look back on UM. So to your point, just

654
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: guessing it was guessing and hoping UM and then walking

655
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: it down and seeing if I was writing yeah, yeah.

656
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: The worst thing that can happen is, uh, you were

657
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: wrong and it was two days old, but it took

658
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: you to a fresher one off, or you were right

659
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: and you went two dadds and you jumped at you

660
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's it's at least you're getting

661
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: started somewhere right now. When we found that track, you

662
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: determine that it was big enough and it was fresh

663
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: enough to to go on um, and then we started cruising.

664
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: And one of the first things you told me was

665
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: you don't want to be an Elmer Fudd. Can you

666
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: can you expand on that? Can you talk to me

667
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: a little bit about how fast you go once you

668
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: get on a track, and and how you determine when

669
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: you should be going fast versus when you should slow down. Yeah,

670
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: So with usually when you get on a track, you

671
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: very rarely get on one that's like fresh, like within

672
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: an hour, you know what I mean. I mean that's

673
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: if you do, it's like hitting the lottery kind of,

674
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, right, I just go along and read the tracks. See,

675
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm immediately when I get on that buck, I'm trying

676
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: to figure out what he's up to. So if he's

677
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 1: just walking along steady, I gotta walk along steady, and

678
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: I gotta walk fast because you can't walk as fast

679
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: as a buck can walk. So if you ain't walking fast,

680
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: you're still losing ground. So you've got to try to

681
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 1: gain ground. And usually the way you gain ground is

682
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: when he stops to do something, whether he stops to feed,

683
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: he stops to check on some does make a scrape,

684
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: rob lay down, whatever he did to stop. That's the

685
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: only time you really gaining any time on a buck.

686
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: You're not you're not gaining time other than that. So

687
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: you gotta move along or you'll never catch up anyway,

688
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: unless he happened to lay down. You got lucky that way.

689
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,280
Speaker 1: But you've gotta you've gotta plan you you gotta plan

690
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: on gaining on the buck so you can get to

691
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: where he is and hunt him, you know, and if

692
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: that means jumping him out of his bed, you know,

693
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: bumped him because he was moving too fast, so be it.

694
00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: At least now you know you're right behind him and

695
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,959
Speaker 1: you can you can hunt now if you Elma Fund.

696
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: You know, that's kind of just a cartoon, but you

697
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: always saw Alma Fund. He'd be he'd have both hands

698
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: on his gun and he'd be going along very very quiet.

699
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: And if you do that in the beginning, when you

700
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 1: first dawn one that's made sometimes in the night might

701
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: be two, three, four or five eight hours old, you're

702
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: probably never gonna even get anyway near that buck because

703
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: that buck could be five miles from you when you

704
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: get started, so you've got to make up that that ground.

705
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: Now that brings to mind the next thing, which is

706
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 1: your cruising, your cruising, your cruising. And that's what we did.

707
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: We did a whole bunch of hiking and we followed

708
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: this track. It took us up a big ridge, It

709
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: spun around, it was on some does that seemed like

710
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: it start going back down the ridge. It made kind

711
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: of a wide loop, dropped down back towards where we

712
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: actually had started hiking originally, and you you were wondering, man,

713
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: is he gonna circle back right over our tracks? And

714
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: then he turned again and he started going up a ridge,

715
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: up to the top of a knob of sorts. And

716
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: at this point you said, all right, this buck is

717
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: doing a textbook thing. We need to slow down. Can

718
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: you describe hell kind of what that was that made

719
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: you want to slow down? And what are the what

720
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: are all the things or what are the different things

721
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: that would make you say, okay, it's time to shift

722
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,399
Speaker 1: into a new gear. Let's drop it down, let's creep now.

723
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: We need to be in sneaky mode. What makes you

724
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: shift into that part of the hunt well, that's if

725
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: I think he's laying down. Usually and as the main

726
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: indication if he's laying down is usually that he said,

727
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: because usually they're gonna feed before they take the time

728
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: to lay down. So that's the number one indication, which

729
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 1: that bucket done a little bit of it, not a lot,

730
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: which is it's not unusual for bucking not to feed

731
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: a lot during the rot. And this was when you came.

732
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: It was, uh, you know, probably right during the biggest

733
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: part of the rout, when it was really getting going.

734
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: So that bucket fed a little bit here, and there

735
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: was following does around checking on them, you know, didn't

736
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: get hooked up with one. And then when he he

737
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: went down and then he kind of went along this

738
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 1: hodwood ridge and abruptly turned and went right up right

739
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: up a steep bridge. And that's usually what they do

740
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: when they're gonna lay down, so they can look down

741
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: to where they've been, you know, on their backtrack. That's

742
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: just classic is most of them bucks are always going

743
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: to be looking back where they came from, the something

744
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: following them, and up up here in this woods it's

745
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: they've been addition through being chased by coyotes, so that's

746
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: a that's their only real natural predator. I mean, the

747
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 1: bears will eat the fawns and stuff there, but they're

748
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: not chasing them around in the woods, uh, you know,

749
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: a buck or anything. So they learned to watch for

750
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: kyo coming behind them with something, so they're always watching back.

751
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,280
Speaker 1: So when they when they do that, usually quite often,

752
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: when they do it, it's already too late. By the

753
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: time you get to where they turned and went up

754
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: the ridge, they've already seen here and they're gone. But

755
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: not always. Sometimes they'll get up over the crest where

756
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: they can't see over, and maybe they feed a little

757
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: there and lay down and you might happen to catch

758
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: them or whatever. But that's why we slowed down. I thought,

759
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: probably he was gonna be up there. And again it

760
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: was in one of them places that wasn't much else

761
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: we could do about it, but just kind of ease

762
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: up there and see. So we eased up slow lee

763
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: up over that pressed to that ridge, and he hadn't

764
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: laid down. He was headed for another knob, a green knob,

765
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 1: and then I thought he was probably in there, and

766
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: so he's over there, and and he didn't stop there.

767
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: We actually we had already crossed his tracks, and I

768
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: didn't pick up on it because it come out of

769
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: that little green growth where there wasn't much snow. If

770
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: you remember, there was I don't know, it wasn't even

771
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: an inch of snow. I don't think it just about Bailey.

772
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: The leaves was sticking up through it still, So he

773
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: just he made a funny loop, just kind of circled around.

774
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: He must have thought there was a dough in that

775
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: spot and he made that loop and there wasn't. So

776
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: then he just kept going. Remember from then on, he

777
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: just kind of got on us straight away mission, you know,

778
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: And he kept going along the edge of some water

779
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: for ways and then finally made his way into you

780
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: another thick kind of cedar pine patch with some kind

781
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, and we lost snow

782
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: in there. Uh what do you can you talk about

783
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: what you do in that kind of situation. You know,

784
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 1: in this case, we just decided to pull the plug

785
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: because we've been going a long ways and and we

786
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: lost the track in there. But you there were a

787
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: couple of other places where we had lost the track,

788
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: and you did some different things to try to pick

789
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: it up again. Where you tracked it in the mud.

790
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 1: Can you just talk about the different ways you try

791
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: to pick up a track again when you lose it

792
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: in a spot like that. Yeah, Well, like I said,

793
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: it's it was so maginal snow if you remember under

794
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: the green trees, that was barely any anyway, because you know,

795
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: it catches up in the limbs. In the hydewoods, it

796
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: gets down to the ground, but in the green in

797
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: the green trees, it switched up. Here is spruce and

798
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: fir and cedar and stuff. But but sometimes you get

799
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: in these big patches that there's no snow underneath, and

800
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 1: you just have to circle around. He had to come

801
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: out of there, so you just you circle and pick

802
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: up the track instead of trying to stare at the

803
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: ground and see if you can see the track in

804
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: the leaves of the needles or something. It's easier to

805
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: walk or straight through the way you can see some

806
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: snow and then and then pick it up there. But

807
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: I knew when he headed down into that corner where

808
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: it was all a big, big expanse of that green growth.

809
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: I knew when he got down in there, we were

810
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: going to probably have trouble because there's in there there

811
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: was nothing to go by. It was a huge that

812
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:50,280
Speaker 1: piece of woods. There was probably a half a mile wide,

813
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: probably at least a half a mile by a half

814
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: a mile, and he headed into there and there's no

815
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: way to see. You can't even the ground in on

816
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: beneath the those soft wood trees, cornifer trees, you can't.

817
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: They don't even make a track. It's all just those

818
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: needles from the hundred years worth, the needles stacked up

819
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: like it's it's just hid. It's not like leaves punched

820
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 1: up where you can see believes curled up in the hydewoods.

821
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: It's not like that. So once you get in there,

822
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: I said, we ain't gonna there's no way to try

823
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: to figure out even where he's going in here. And

824
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: it's the other part of it is so thick in there.

825
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: If you remember, you couldn't see twenty feet most places.

826
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: You ain't gonna You're not gonna get him anyway. The

827
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: only thing you can do, I mean, I don't give

828
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: up on a buck that goes into that stuff. There's

829
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: there's snow where I can see where he went. I'll

830
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 1: just try to I'll just jump him and push him

831
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: out of there, and try to get him somewhere else

832
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: where I can get a look at him. But uh,

833
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: there just was no snow to do that. So we

834
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: we turned and went on, figuring maybe he just went

835
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: in and searched around and came back out again. So

836
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: we just stayed in the Hodwoods and ran the Hodwood

837
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: ridge above that green patch, you know, hoping to find

838
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: his track or another track. You know, Dylan, did you

839
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: have a question? So one thing that I'm yeah, I'm

840
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: just curious how you know, when you're closing in and

841
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: you think that you're you know, actually you know, have

842
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 1: a change of spotting this year, what are you imagine

843
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: doing typically? Are you expecting to find him in his bed?

844
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: Are you looking for him up and feating? Are you

845
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: just looking for antlers through the brush? You know, I'm

846
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: just curious to get in your head here and you know,

847
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: imagine what you're expecting. Well, I guess it depends what

848
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,439
Speaker 1: the buck is doing. If if if I know he's

849
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: up on his feet, like I've already jumped him, or

850
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: maybe sometimes you'll come to a bed and he just

851
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: got up on his own and he's he's off again.

852
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm usually in them that case, I'm expecting to see

853
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 1: him on his feet, beating, doing something. And if I

854
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: expect that he's laying down, I play it a little

855
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: different because you've got to usually play it slower. If

856
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: I think if he just fed around a bunch and

857
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: went in on this knoll or something like that, I'll

858
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: go very very slow, and I'll just I might just

859
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 1: take a step, look all around, take one more step,

860
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: scour around behind and around all the blowdowns, and yeah,

861
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking for an antler or an ear patrick brown

862
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: or anything. If he's laying down, if he's done. Are

863
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: you who with them? Are you catching these deer? Are

864
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: you catching them unexpected? You know? Are they ever you know,

865
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: just doing their own thing? Are they typically onto you

866
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 1: as you're closing the distance? Do they know something's after him? Um? Depends.

867
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: Every situation is different. Depends how much you how many

868
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 1: times you've jumped him. If you jumped him a few

869
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: times and they know something's behind him and they're gonna

870
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: be looking all the time, and you just got to

871
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: try to catch them, uh in the right place at

872
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: the right time and see him first, or maybe I mean,

873
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't care. If he's standing, they have broadside chewing

874
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 1: his on a piece of stick or something. I'm not

875
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: looking for that. I'm just looking to get a chance

876
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: a shot. Whether it's he just took off and he's running,

877
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't doesn't make any difference to me, you know,

878
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: I just want to get that shot, you know. I

879
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: mean obviously if he's stand in the air or something

880
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: or laying down, it's gonna be an easier shot. But um,

881
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: when you get used to this type of hunt and

882
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: a running shot is not a big deal to take,

883
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, can you expand on that a little bit? Hell,

884
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: just you know how you prepare yourself to take these

885
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: shots that seem like almost almost always there quick. It's

886
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: a it's a very short window of opportunity when you

887
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: get into I think you called it your death creep,

888
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: when you really think you're getting in close to one

889
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: and you're slipping in real careful, how how ready are you?

890
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: Do you have your are you holding the gun at

891
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: the ready? Are you you know? What are the specifics

892
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: you're doing and what has helped you to improve your

893
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: chances of being able to pull off a shot in

894
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: such a little tight and narrow of time and sometimes

895
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: tight space too. Well, A lot of that is just

896
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: practice and experience. And uh, my practice, quite frankly was

897
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: when I was I started rabbit hunting with my grandfather

898
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: had beagles, and uh I started that when I was

899
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: ten years old and shot thousands of rabbits running and

900
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,680
Speaker 1: they run like a deer kind of you know, they

901
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: just they're they're bounding, you know, dogs are chasing them,

902
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: and you just get experience doing that with you your swing,

903
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: you follow through, you're looking for the openings, and that's experience.

904
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: So but that's I mean, I I was fortunate to

905
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: to grow up in that manner where I had that

906
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: experience already going into it. Most people probably don't have

907
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: that kind of an experience. So but yeah, I go

908
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: into it if I'm if I think one's laying there

909
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get a look at it, or I

910
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: think he's right here, handy, my guns in both hands,

911
00:53:54,480 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: ready to go and U I Usually my rule of

912
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 1: thumb is like if I can if I can see

913
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 1: him for two jumps, I'm probably going to get a shot,

914
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: unless it's just too thick, you know. Usually that if

915
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: I I should say I get two jumps where I

916
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: see him for two jumps. So if I see him

917
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 1: make a jump, I can get my gun in action

918
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: in one jump, and then I can usually get my

919
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: shot off by the time he's made that second jump.

920
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:45,839
Speaker 1: So yes, that's quick. Yeah, so, but it's practice. Yeah.

921
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 1: That was That was definitely one of the things that

922
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: was most concerning for me, as as I don't have

923
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: that experience of running shots. I was kind of raised,

924
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: Um my grandpa viewed that is something that I should

925
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,479
Speaker 1: not do. So I was like, beat with a stick

926
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: if I ever considered that basically metaphorically. Um So, coming

927
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: to this, I was thinking, Man, how am I ever

928
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: going to get a shot in this situation? That seemed

929
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: like that was gonna be the real, real crux, Like

930
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: that was gonna be something to be particularly challenging if

931
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: I ever made it to that point. But there's one

932
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: other thing that we haven't touched on yet that was

933
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: pretty important, it seemed like, which is, let's say you

934
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: go into this death creep, you move into where you

935
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: think he's betted, and you do bump him, but you

936
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: can't get the shot, and he goes running off before

937
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: you see him or before you can get a shot off,

938
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. That buck runs off, Uh you

939
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 1: told us that this is one of the things that

940
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: you do that a lot of people don't that you

941
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: think is particularly important, which is you take a sandwich break.

942
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: Can you talk about your infamous sandwich breaks? Why you

943
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: do that, Why that's important? Um, what you're doing with

944
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: that whole thing. Yeah, So a long time ago, I

945
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: learned through experience that was just chasing bucks around all

946
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: day because I jump them and give you know, keep

947
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: right after him, and they're always looking back, and you'll

948
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: come to a place where the tracks standing there turned

949
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: around looking back at you in the tracks running again.

950
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: So I just thought that I had to outsmile him.

951
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: I had to be a different thing to do. I

952
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 1: could see that they were waiting, so and nine times

953
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: out of ten they do, but one out of ten doesn't.

954
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 1: But I always play the odds. Anyways, So I found

955
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: that when I go right after him, i'd go maybe

956
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: only a hundred yards, maybe three yards whatever it was

957
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: at distance, and there would be tracks right where the

958
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: buck was standing there, turned around facing back where he

959
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: came from, kind of like treading around, kind of waiting.

960
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: So I said, well, that's what they do. They're waiting

961
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: to see if something's coming. After him, so I'm not

962
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 1: gonna come after him. So I tried fifteen minutes and

963
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: that didn't seem to work. So once I started waiting

964
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: a half an hour, it seemed to work pretty well.

965
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,720
Speaker 1: And then that's one thing I wrote my first book.

966
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: I had more people comment on that, more experienced hunters

967
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,919
Speaker 1: that have killed lots of box track and stuff that

968
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: they never thought of it. And and I had a

969
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of people comment to me that

970
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 1: that that's why they killed the first buck tracking was

971
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: because they waited. Because what happens is that buck, usually

972
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: unless you out now, was in their face and and

973
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: really frightened them. That buck probably only heard a stick snap,

974
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: maybe caught a little movement through the through the woods,

975
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: through the limbs of something. He doesn't know what that is.

976
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: He's just gonna get out. He's not gonna stay there.

977
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 1: He's gonna get out of the way and see what happens.

978
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: And he might only go a hundred yards and wait,

979
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: two hundred, five hundred, doesn't matter. He's gonna get off

980
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: where he feels comfortable, and then he's gonna wait and

981
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 1: see if anything's following. Now, if you think about it,

982
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: if a coyotes following him. Usually that's gonna be immediately,

983
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,919
Speaker 1: you know, when they get chased by a kyot, they

984
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: get you know, the coyote is gonna be running after him.

985
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: So if that buck stands there fifteen twenty minutes, half

986
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: hour or whatever and nothing comes along, he just relaxes again.

987
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: He's not afraid. He just he's kind of really basically

988
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: forgot about that experience. There's something bothered him, and he's

989
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: gonna go about his business. Sometimes they lay right back down. Uh.

990
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes if it's later, like it's late morning, early afternoon,

991
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: they won't lay down again. They'll just stop going about

992
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: their business because they've rested enough. They might start checking,

993
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: does might stop feeding. But whatever he's doing, he's just

994
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: start doing it again. That's the best time to kill

995
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: the buck. The first time, laying in his bed is

996
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: not the best time, because he's looking back. He's hard

997
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 1: to you know, he's that it's the hardest time to

998
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: get him. Those are the times. The only time you're

999
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: probably gonna get him that way is on one of

1000
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: those about killing days where you've got some wind and

1001
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,000
Speaker 1: maybe as snow and there's just some action going on

1002
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: with he's blind and usually them kind of days, they

1003
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: don't want to run off as much because they feel

1004
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: vulnerable anyways because of the wind. So that second time

1005
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: I've killed more box after I've jumped them then then

1006
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: killed like when I jumped him, we'll kill them laying

1007
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: in their beds and beginning to something. So that's why

1008
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: I do it. The only exceptions I have to that

1009
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 1: is I only do it once if it's the first time,

1010
01:00:19,480 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: and I make an exception if he's if he's with

1011
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: the dough, if he's laying with the dough. When they

1012
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: take off, I just ease right along after him because

1013
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: he's going to be distracted with her. He's probably sometimes

1014
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: they get split up and he's gonna try to get

1015
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: back with her or something. Uh, So I'll go right

1016
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: after them because he ain't thinking about looking back as

1017
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: much she might be. But he's not interesting. That's very interesting.

1018
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: I encounter something like that, and I guess I didn't

1019
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: think of that aspect of things. But but yeah, I

1020
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: guess I'll wait to dive into that until it's start

1021
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: dive into that particular hunt a couple of days later. Um,

1022
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: I guess from that point, if we jumped back into

1023
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: our day one, we we didn't bump one. We tracked

1024
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 1: one forever and then we walked and walked and walked

1025
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: after we lost that first track to try to find

1026
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: another one, and we never did find another one worth

1027
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: going on. Um, we just cruised for a long time

1028
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: and like Dylan said, we ended up covering almost ten miles. Um.

1029
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: I want to get Jimmer. I want to get Jimmer's

1030
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: perspective on that part of things. Just talk to me,

1031
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: Jimmer about your thoughts on how Hell hikes to the woods,

1032
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: how fast he goes, how far he goes? Like what

1033
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 1: what did you learn about what it takes to walk

1034
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: a buck like this down? After now spending a day

1035
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: falling around one of the best in the business. Oh gosh,

1036
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: Even if I wasn't carrying a camera and a backpack

1037
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,479
Speaker 1: full of camera gear, I still don't think I would

1038
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: have been able to keep up with Hell. That was

1039
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: That was That was impressive and inspirational. Um, he knows

1040
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: what he's looking for. Is it's funny hearing hearing you

1041
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 1: talk right now, how it's like getting the the cliff

1042
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: notes to a really big book. The big book is

1043
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: the is the actual hunt. You have to read the book,

1044
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: you have to go do the hunt. The cliff notes

1045
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: are all the things that you're telling us right now.

1046
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: And I think, like Mark was saying, he'll talk about

1047
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: here in a second, but everything you're saying we ran into.

1048
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 1: Um even the looking at the prints, the what direction

1049
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: are they going? And they are they betting down? Did

1050
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: we spook them? I mean, it's just from a camera

1051
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 1: guy's perspective, trying to tell the story visually. Seeing all

1052
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: those things come together was was truly fascinating. Having experienced

1053
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 1: the first day with you and then we went off

1054
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: on our own for the next three days, but boy,

1055
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: covered that ground. That was I'm glad I had a

1056
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: couple of my own hunts prior in the month prior,

1057
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: and I felt like I was maybe in halfway decent shape,

1058
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: but still um kutous to your hell yeah yeah, I mean,

1059
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: I'll give you kudos as well. Hew. You you can

1060
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 1: put the pedal to the meadow and you can walk

1061
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: a long ways. I consider myself one of the best

1062
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: long distance hiker and walkers in the mountains that I

1063
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: know and that I hang out with, and I think

1064
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: most of my camera crew can attest that I can.

1065
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: I can get after it pretty good. But you were,

1066
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: you were cruising, and I was thinking to myself, I

1067
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: hope I can get around half as well as you do, um,

1068
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: when I have as much experience as you do. Because

1069
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 1: you don't seem to have slowed down one bit. I'm

1070
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: guessing from what you were doing when you were thirty,

1071
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: it's my guess that was a good pace out there

1072
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: in the mountains. Well, in my mind, I'm still thirty.

1073
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: That's my problem. Sometimes like one like that, and in

1074
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: the end of the day you're walking out, I'm like,

1075
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: I pay for it a little bit, But yes, I

1076
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: I still I'm I'm thankful that I'm still able to

1077
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: go like I can at my age. And I can

1078
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 1: tell you know, like I need my rest at night.

1079
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: I gotta rest my legs and stuff. But hey, I'll

1080
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: be sixty five year in in May. So uh, I

1081
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: think I'm doing pretty good for that being that age,

1082
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: I'd say so. So we we we ended that day

1083
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: having covered a bunch of ground, but never did pick

1084
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: up another track. And the plan was the next day,

1085
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: I was going to go back out there on my own,

1086
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: UM and bring Dylan and Jim or with me and

1087
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: see if I couldn't get on another one. Now what

1088
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: I want to do is this Hell, I kind of

1089
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 1: want to walk you through what happened over the next

1090
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: three days, at least the highlights the most important parts,

1091
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: and then kind of picked your brain on you know,

1092
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 1: did I make the right decision here? Did I make

1093
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: a mistake there? Would you have done something differently? I mean,

1094
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: as I described some of these things, feel free to

1095
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: jump through jump in hell if you think I did

1096
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 1: something wrong, or if you want to, you know, share

1097
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: something you might have thought differently in any of this. Um,

1098
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm really curious. It would have been really neat if

1099
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 1: somehow I could have had you just follow me around

1100
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: the next three days and like critique me as I went,

1101
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:07,439
Speaker 1: or be or maybe not even tell me in the moment,

1102
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: but just be taking notes, and then at the end

1103
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: of the day I'd come back and we sit down

1104
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: and you would walk me through all the things I

1105
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 1: screwed up. That would have been the best. But this

1106
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: will have to do as a as the closest way

1107
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: to learn from from what I did right or wrong. Um, So,

1108
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: Dylan and Jimmer in fact, check me here if there's

1109
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,720
Speaker 1: anything I forget to mention if there's anything I should

1110
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 1: have expanded on, if there's anything different, feel free to

1111
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: jump through here or jump in here. As I described

1112
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: at least the main points. So day two. Day two

1113
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: starts off, we start at the same beginning point, and

1114
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: right away one of the first things I was I'm

1115
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: not sure about was what's the route I want to take? Like,

1116
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: how do I how do I want to go through

1117
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: this huge expanse of open land that we have available

1118
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: in front of us. UM. And my initial thought was, Okay,

1119
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: I remember yesterday we had walked a lot of different country.

1120
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: But the very most dear sign just tracks, you know,

1121
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 1: seemed to be up towards the top of these ridges

1122
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: where there seemed to be some old cuts in more

1123
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: hard woods. Um. That just seemed to be more diverse

1124
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: terrain and it seemed to be a lot more tracks.

1125
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: So I thought, let's head up to the tops of

1126
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: these ridges where that most sign was, and then I'll

1127
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 1: take a wide swing to the west which would take

1128
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: us into the new country, while most of the hiking

1129
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: we did the day previous had been to the east. UM.

1130
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 1: So that was my strategy was basically get up high

1131
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: where most of the sign was the day before, and

1132
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: then get into a new section of it and we

1133
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: started hiking, just cruising, covering country, and pretty quickly, within

1134
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: like a half hour, um, we came across a track

1135
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 1: that was like a maybe track and this was one

1136
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: that looked at it and I was thinking two things.

1137
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: It seemed to be and maybe on both fronts. It

1138
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: seemed like this could be fresh this This is probably

1139
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: an overnight track, I thought, But I just didn't know

1140
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: is this a big track? Like is this a buck track?

1141
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: Is this is just like a good dough track. I

1142
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: remember thinking that you can see do clause, but it's

1143
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 1: not big big And I kind of waffled on it

1144
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: and thought, you know, is it big enough? I don't know.

1145
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 1: Is it super duper duper fresh? Not that fresh, but

1146
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: it's probably you know, it was new from when we

1147
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 1: came through their last so it happened at least um

1148
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: because this was still along the trail that we'd walked

1149
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 1: the first day, so I knew it was at least

1150
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: from the night at some point, and ultimately, you know,

1151
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:35,360
Speaker 1: I decided, nah, let's not walk on this first one.

1152
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: It just doesn't knock my socks off. Let's keep going.

1153
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll find something better. And what did we do, Jammer?

1154
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: From there? I mean we hiked I think four miles

1155
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,360
Speaker 1: or something or we had a bunch um and didn't

1156
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: come across a single other new track after that and that, right,

1157
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like we put a bunch of

1158
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: miles on after that. Yeah, and weird, you know, like

1159
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: you said, we went in the same spot the day

1160
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:04,280
Speaker 1: before with how, but we were definitely covering brand new

1161
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: ground um and that yeah, and that first track, Yeah,

1162
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: we just didn't feel it and moved on from there.

1163
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, from there, I think we burned a lot

1164
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 1: of footage of you just walking. That's covering ground, a

1165
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 1: lot of walking footage, a lot of mark walking, and

1166
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: a lot of looking in the snow. You know, it's

1167
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: pretty funny, is we got back one of these nights.

1168
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was day two or what

1169
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 1: day it was, but we got back to our little

1170
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 1: cabin and uh, we have a producer out there with us.

1171
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: It's guy Andreas we all know and love. And Andreas

1172
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: would be waiting at camp all day for us, and

1173
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: then when we get home he'd be asking us, did

1174
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: you talk about this? Did you see this. Did we

1175
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: get coverage of this, Did we make sure to get

1176
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: footage of Mark doing this and this? Blah blah blah,

1177
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,759
Speaker 1: just kind of making sure we checked all the boxes

1178
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 1: that we want to check. And I remember one night

1179
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 1: he's like, do you guys feel like you have enough

1180
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,920
Speaker 1: footage of Mark walking? Do we have good walking mark footage?

1181
01:08:55,000 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: And I think everybody just laughed, just laughed. Mark many, many,

1182
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: many hours of Mark walking. Um. But I'd say I'd

1183
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: say the highlight of day two was four hours later

1184
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: or four miles later, was one of the two I

1185
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: remember seeing four on my track. I was tracking all

1186
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: this on ONYX. We ended up coming across a track

1187
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,720
Speaker 1: that seemed fresh ish enough. And at this point we've

1188
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 1: been walking half the day, hadn't come across anything else

1189
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:28,519
Speaker 1: we want to track. Now I see you when I'm like, man,

1190
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: this is probably a buck and this is probably somewhat fresh.

1191
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: We should start tracking this one. And so we end

1192
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: up tracking this this this deer, and it like looped

1193
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: around a couple of times and went here and there

1194
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 1: and everywhere. And remember thinking, man, this is fun, Like

1195
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: I'm finally on a track on my own, I'm actually

1196
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: tracking one I'm doing the thing. Um, this is pretty cool.

1197
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: You know. The previous day I was following you, Hale,

1198
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: and you were making the decisions, and you were analyzing

1199
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: the tracks and finding it when we lost it, and

1200
01:09:57,360 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: so I didn't have to really work in that way.

1201
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: But now was actually doing all the work, doing all

1202
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: the thinking, picking it up when I get lost in

1203
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: other tracks, kind of sorting through the the puzzle when

1204
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: you see all these different things come together and you're

1205
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: trying to read the story of what actually happened here

1206
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 1: and where did he go? And I'm thinking, this is great.

1207
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna walk down this buck and we're gonna do

1208
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 1: the thing. And then it starts circling back to the

1209
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: west and it keeps going more and more in the

1210
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 1: direction that we started, and I think it was maybe

1211
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: like twenty minutes thirty minutes before we got back to

1212
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: the trail, and I'm thinking, oh, this deer is going

1213
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: right back to where we started. And I started getting

1214
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: this little whisper in the back of my mind saying,

1215
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: what if this is the same track that you saw

1216
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 1: at the very beginning of the day. And sure enough,

1217
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:49,560
Speaker 1: twenty minutes later, this deer ended up being the original

1218
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,440
Speaker 1: track we saw at the very beginning of the day,

1219
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: and now I've followed his track all the way back

1220
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: to the beginning. I wasted two thirds of the day

1221
01:10:57,960 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: and now I'm right back to where I started first

1222
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 1: and realized that this is the buck I passed up on,

1223
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, eight hours earlier or whatever it was. Um, hell,

1224
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: what do you think about that? Because eventually end up

1225
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: when following that track for a while, and then I

1226
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,240
Speaker 1: lost it somewhere and then that was our day, and

1227
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: I was kind of upset at myself that I passed

1228
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: on that one and now wasted the whole day, spent

1229
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: all this time. What do you think about how I

1230
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 1: approached that? Is that something that's ever happened to you? Um?

1231
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: What do you think when you hear that? Funny? You

1232
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,599
Speaker 1: should say that? Because when you get out of that

1233
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,200
Speaker 1: day was a bunch was a law of practice, right,

1234
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you've got you've got your practice in and uh,

1235
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 1: you learned that that can happen and it can happen anybody,

1236
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: because it happened to me. I do that not I

1237
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: don't shouldn't say quite often, but it happened to me

1238
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: again one of the days actually It was the first

1239
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,320
Speaker 1: day a muzzle old the season this year when we

1240
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 1: had the good snow, I was lucky enough. I had

1241
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: my cameraman with me and and I I cut a

1242
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 1: track from the road where I've never cut a track before.

1243
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: I never never really seen a buck track crossing there.

1244
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:23,880
Speaker 1: And Uh it came out in the road and UH

1245
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,759
Speaker 1: walked down the side of the road dragging his feet

1246
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 1: and I could see us another mark in the road,

1247
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 1: and I go, what the heck is going on? I

1248
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: had to look at it when there was a stick

1249
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: laying there. Well, when he come out of the woods,

1250
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: he must have come up through some brush and he

1251
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: snapped the stick off and his aunt was about four

1252
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: ft long, and he dragged it with his aunt was

1253
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 1: down the road about fifty yards for it dropped out

1254
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,240
Speaker 1: of his aunt was so now I'm thinking he must

1255
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:57,160
Speaker 1: have a pretty decent rack to do that. And it

1256
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: was one of them square toad ones. But anyways, we

1257
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: jumped right on it. So we got right on at

1258
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: it pretty much daylight. And when it when it went

1259
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 1: in the woods, it came to us. Well. First, when

1260
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: I first got in there, there was another track coming

1261
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: back almost back on itself. There, and I just in

1262
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: my mind, I just discounted it as being the same one,

1263
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: just just because of the way it came back. And

1264
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I can't think about why I did,

1265
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: but there was a reason that I didn't even I

1266
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 1: think that it could be the same one. But but

1267
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 1: I went a little bit further and I came to

1268
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 1: a kind of an open bowl there and I and

1269
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 1: another track came across, and I looked at that one,

1270
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: and I go, because if you if a track is

1271
01:13:55,479 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: crossing another track, you stopped before it crosses, and you

1272
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 1: sometimes you can see where they where a cross pass

1273
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: the two tracks, which one is fresher by, which which

1274
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: way the snow was dragged into one track of the other.

1275
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,360
Speaker 1: And it didn't drag any snow win so I couldn't tell,

1276
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 1: But I just took a hunch the way it went up.

1277
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 1: It went up and I could visualize that it looped

1278
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: around and it was exactly the same size track, And

1279
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,960
Speaker 1: I said, that's the same buck. I'm pretty sure I'm

1280
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: making a loop. But in any event, it's getting out

1281
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: of this little spot. So I took it and it

1282
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 1: went back across the road about a quarter of a

1283
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: mile above where at parked truck, and it got into

1284
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: completely different piece of woods that went up through some

1285
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: new cots, wandered around, followed the dough and it headed

1286
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 1: up on this mountain. So in my mind, I'm like, yeah,

1287
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 1: he's gonna be up on that mountain somewhere. So he

1288
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:02,439
Speaker 1: kept on it and kept on it, kept on it,

1289
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: and it went up all on the off the end

1290
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: of this mountain, and it still headed and kind of

1291
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:12,880
Speaker 1: a westerly direction, and then all of a sudden it

1292
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 1: got to where there was some more deer in it.

1293
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: It kind of turned back towards the logging road, and

1294
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: the next thing you know, it crossed the logging road

1295
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: and there was a bunch of other deer tracks there

1296
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: and it crossed. So I crossed it and it and

1297
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:37,879
Speaker 1: I'm now I'm probably I'm about a mile. He crosses

1298
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,719
Speaker 1: the road about a mile from the truck, and now

1299
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 1: he's headed back over in the country he was headed

1300
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 1: in the first place. So he goes over on these

1301
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: knobs and heast I can you know what he's doing.

1302
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: He's checking all these green knobs the does and there

1303
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: was I crossed paths with another smaller buck track in

1304
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 1: the handsome does. And he kept going, and that's what

1305
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: he was doing. He was searching, searching, searching. Then then

1306
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:08,559
Speaker 1: he starts to swing back east. And I stopped thinking

1307
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: to myself, could this possibly be the same buck? I

1308
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 1: was thinking it might be where I crossed paths with

1309
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 1: it in that little hidewood bowl. I said, could this

1310
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: be the same buck there? And I go, I can't

1311
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 1: believe it would be, So I stayed on it next, singing, oh,

1312
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 1: I crossed this old we call it a winter road,

1313
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: like a grassy road. And he got down and see

1314
01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 1: these beaver bogs doing the same thing, just doing his thing.

1315
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: But he's all he's headed east, but he's he's a

1316
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:48,640
Speaker 1: half a mile back in there, and all of a

1317
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: sudden he swings back south and now he's making a circle,

1318
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 1: and not like I'm kind of saying to myself, I

1319
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 1: can't believe it is, but there's a good chance this

1320
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 1: is the same buck. And he was. He started chasing

1321
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,760
Speaker 1: the doll around in one place and make a long

1322
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: story short. Four hours later, just like you said, I'm

1323
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 1: right back in I wasn't in that highwood bowl. I

1324
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,840
Speaker 1: was back where I discounted that first track. I hadn't

1325
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:24,000
Speaker 1: been in the woods fifty yards when this other track

1326
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 1: come back across that. I completely discounted that one to one.

1327
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 1: When I made a decision in the bowl. It was

1328
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 1: the right decision, but I just I didn't discount that

1329
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 1: first one where I did discount it. Well, he had

1330
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 1: crossed the road like not even fifty yards from where

1331
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 1: he came out, dragging the stick he'd gone up in,

1332
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 1: he'd come out and made, went back in, made that

1333
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: little loop, went made the whole great big loop, and

1334
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: was back across the road again. And it was eleven

1335
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 1: o'clock when I got back there, from seven to eleven,

1336
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:11,919
Speaker 1: and he went across the stream and upon these other bluffs,

1337
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 1: and I said to myself, well that's a good place.

1338
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 1: He's probably gonna be over there anyway. Well, the time

1339
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: we got across the stream and get over in there,

1340
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:24,280
Speaker 1: there was moose tracks and deer tracks all over his

1341
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: tracks because it had been half the day and the

1342
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:31,760
Speaker 1: moose were feeding all through there. And all I could

1343
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: do was I kept circling successively bigger circles to try

1344
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: to find his track because it would be completely obliterated

1345
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,160
Speaker 1: with other tracks between, mostly moose. But there was some

1346
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 1: deer in there too, stomping around. And I finally picked

1347
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: up a track I thought was his, and I didn't

1348
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 1: go very fire on. It was fresh and I see it,

1349
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,519
Speaker 1: I see it go, but I couldn't see the head.

1350
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: And then I could see where it had been in

1351
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: their feeding and stuff, and it didn't look like I

1352
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,760
Speaker 1: decided it wasn't the same one. It was another one

1353
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 1: pretty much the same size track, because this one I

1354
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,600
Speaker 1: was on, he dragged that stick out there and he

1355
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: didn't go through any narrow openings with his antles. He'd

1356
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 1: walk around narrow stuff, and this other one I jumped

1357
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: was he was just come through some thick stuff, feeding

1358
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 1: and stuff. I go, that ain't the same buck. And

1359
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:33,839
Speaker 1: I made another big circle over half a mile circle

1360
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 1: and couldn't get his track coming out. Now it's three

1361
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 1: o'clock in the afternoon and I'm like, I guess I'm

1362
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 1: done for the day. So same thing. It was like,

1363
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 1: you can't call it a wasted day because you learned

1364
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: some things, you know what I mean? You saw some things,

1365
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: you learned from things, but it does happen, so you

1366
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. But it's actually quite calm, and

1367
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:04,439
Speaker 1: that they make them big oracles and end up back again. Yeah, well,

1368
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 1: you're right about the practice thing. I definitely felt like

1369
01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 1: even while I was doing it and thinking to myself, like,

1370
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 1: after we lost it, picked it up again, when it

1371
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: looped back through, I thought, well, at least this is practice.

1372
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:19,200
Speaker 1: Probably will never catch up with this deer, but just

1373
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:23,320
Speaker 1: doing the thing, interpreting the tracks, following them, getting through

1374
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: tough spots where it disappears or gets confused. I mean,

1375
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 1: I could definitely see how this is a skill that

1376
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: takes a while to develop, and and doing it that

1377
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 1: day felt really good, um, even though we never you know,

1378
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: even came close to anything, Um, but it did set

1379
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: me up a lot better for the next day. On

1380
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 1: day three, UM had been talking to another guy in

1381
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 1: camp and he'd mentioned he was going to go to

1382
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: a new area this day and said we were welcome

1383
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 1: to fill him to drive up to this zone and

1384
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: he could kind of, you know, drive us into a

1385
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 1: general direction where he thought that would be a good

1386
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: idea for us to explore, and then he would keep

1387
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: drying and driving and go find an area he would walk.

1388
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,360
Speaker 1: So we end up driving up to this general area.

1389
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: We get down a logging road. There had been a

1390
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: little fresh coating of snow overnight, and so there's actually

1391
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: some snow on the road. And sure enough he stops.

1392
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: The truck hops out and we look at this track

1393
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,479
Speaker 1: and there's a buck track and a dough track crossing

1394
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: the road seemingly, you know, relatively fresh. Had to be fresh,

1395
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 1: since that snow had just come overnight. And we talked

1396
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: about it and decide, hey, you know what, not a big,

1397
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: big track, but a buck um, let's do it. So

1398
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: he kept going to find a different place, and then

1399
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 1: me and Jimmer, we're gonna get on the track because

1400
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,759
Speaker 1: this day I decided to bring just one cameraman because

1401
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,439
Speaker 1: it seemed pretty impossible to pull it off with two.

1402
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 1: So Dylan, what, you just stayed back at camp and

1403
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:58,599
Speaker 1: slept in and eight pizza and just relaxed all days

1404
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:04,960
Speaker 1: and there, right, Yeah, I was. But but me and

1405
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 1: me and Jimmy we're gonna get after it. So we

1406
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:15,559
Speaker 1: parked the truck. We both were so excited about having

1407
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 1: a fresh buck track that we both needed to use

1408
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 1: the bathroom at the same time. So we're like, all right,

1409
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 1: you go on that side of the road. I go

1410
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Let's take care of that,

1411
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: and then let let's follow this track. So it gets

1412
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:29,479
Speaker 1: light and we get on the track and and really

1413
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 1: it looked really fresh. I mean it was like fresh,

1414
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 1: powdery snow, and the track was crispy. I mean it

1415
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 1: looked it had to be the freshest we'd seen since

1416
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 1: we got there. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Hale, when

1417
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:44,600
Speaker 1: you said it looks like someone through sugar down, it

1418
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: was that kind of thing. Um. And so you know,

1419
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:52,879
Speaker 1: right away we started walking down and and within fifteen

1420
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,920
Speaker 1: minutes of walking, I already started thinking do I need

1421
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 1: to be slowing down? Do I need to Could this

1422
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,719
Speaker 1: deer be right up here? Um? And we we tracked

1423
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 1: it down through an area had been cut a decent bit,

1424
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 1: and it wasn't like they were on a tear. They

1425
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:09,519
Speaker 1: were kind of milling around and then they'd walk straight

1426
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: for ways and then they kind of spin around the mill.

1427
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 1: And there was a different deer that kind of popped

1428
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 1: in and out a couple of different times. Um. But

1429
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:21,000
Speaker 1: we came up over this ridge and we're there was

1430
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 1: a valley down below, and then another ridge that came

1431
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,599
Speaker 1: up the other side, and I remember thinking I wouldn't

1432
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,320
Speaker 1: be shocked if this buck is within view of this Um,

1433
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:31,760
Speaker 1: I don't really know, but it just seems like he

1434
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:34,880
Speaker 1: could be. I could be within side of this buck. Already.

1435
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:36,800
Speaker 1: It just seemed like we weren't very far behind it

1436
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,120
Speaker 1: all based on what we're seeing. I mean, the tracks

1437
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 1: weren't frozen. Um, you know, you're seeing the light tufts

1438
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:44,880
Speaker 1: of snow that it kicked up when he drags his

1439
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: toe and all that kind of stuff. And sure enough

1440
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: we you know, I basically slowed down a decent bit.

1441
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 1: Now I was just kind of ready, um and go

1442
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: down the ridge, dropped down in the valley, follow the

1443
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:59,040
Speaker 1: tracks up the other side of the ridge, and then

1444
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 1: sure enough, there's a bed on that opposite ridge. Now

1445
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 1: there wasn't two beds, there was just one bed. And

1446
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 1: I could see the one bed, and then I could

1447
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: see what looked like a couple jumping, you know, sets

1448
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 1: where they like. The tracks showed that he jumped out

1449
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,400
Speaker 1: of the bed, jumped again, jumped again. Um, And so

1450
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:21,160
Speaker 1: I saw that and thought, okay, we probably bumped this buck.

1451
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 1: And so we decided to sit down and do our

1452
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,000
Speaker 1: sandwich break thing. Now, this hell is a question I

1453
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: have for you. I never did see the dough bed

1454
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,400
Speaker 1: so I could see dough tracks, and I saw the

1455
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:35,680
Speaker 1: buck tracks, and I saw a single bed um, and

1456
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 1: then I assumed that we had bumped him and did

1457
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 1: the sandwich break. But then later in the day I

1458
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: started thinking, did I not bump that buck? Was that

1459
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 1: buck actually did? He lay down for a second, and

1460
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: then the dough kept going, and then he just jumped

1461
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 1: up to go follow the dope and they kept on

1462
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 1: going their merry way. They didn't run a long ways

1463
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: after after that jumping. I remember seeing the jumping tracks,

1464
01:24:57,040 --> 01:24:58,720
Speaker 1: and then there was a little bit of running for

1465
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:03,040
Speaker 1: maybe like I don't know, fifty yards, maybe a hundred yards,

1466
01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: Jim does that something about right? Maybe? And then they

1467
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: were back to just like walking along. What are you? Yeah?

1468
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:12,120
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Hell? Should I have

1469
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 1: taken the break like I did? Or should I have

1470
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 1: kept pushing in that case? I don't know. I wasn't

1471
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: there fair enough. I think more than likely if you saw,

1472
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 1: if the two sets of tracks were running from there,

1473
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 1: that that one of them just got laid down. The

1474
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:37,799
Speaker 1: other one hadn't laid down yet. Maybe it was feeding

1475
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,400
Speaker 1: or whatever it was doing, and you just happened to

1476
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: come along at that minute, you know, before they both

1477
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 1: got laid down. That's what I'm thinking went on there,

1478
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:53,639
Speaker 1: And in which case taking the break was the right move?

1479
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 1: Uh what did they when? They just did? They just

1480
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 1: go about their business and see if you if it's

1481
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: a buck in the doll. Like I said, I wouldn't

1482
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: have taken the break necessarily. Uh, dependent on the time.

1483
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: To a lot of times, I'm like, well it's nine o'clock.

1484
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: I eight o'clock. I'm not going to take a break yet.

1485
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep hunting here and see what happens. But

1486
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:23,160
Speaker 1: sometimes I just take it because it's around ten anyway,

1487
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I mean it was early it we

1488
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: hadn't been going for more. It was an hour or

1489
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: less into the day, and I saw that bump, and

1490
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: so I took the break, not having remembered or known

1491
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 1: about the dough with the buck being a different situation,

1492
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 1: so I just thought, Okay, we bumped the deer. We

1493
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 1: gotta sit down, even though we hadn't been going more

1494
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:44,320
Speaker 1: than an hour. Um, So we took the thirty minute

1495
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 1: break and then picked up the track again. And you know,

1496
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:49,519
Speaker 1: like I said, I think we had like some running

1497
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:52,760
Speaker 1: tracks for a hundred some yards or something like that,

1498
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:55,960
Speaker 1: give or take um. And then they basically were just

1499
01:26:56,040 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 1: walking again, and they were walking on a mostly straight line.

1500
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 1: They kind of did a straight shot and then a

1501
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: little curve, and we followed them. You know, from that

1502
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: they've been on this ridge hill. When they left the bed,

1503
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:14,080
Speaker 1: they went downhill down into a flat like at the

1504
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 1: bottom of the valley, and they walked through a bunch

1505
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 1: of old cuttings, you know, I don't know, a couple

1506
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: of year old cut or something, and a bunch of

1507
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 1: piles of slash and tops and all this kind of stuff,

1508
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:27,759
Speaker 1: and they basically did a long straight shot. They crossed

1509
01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 1: back over the road that we drove into and started

1510
01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:34,479
Speaker 1: heading towards the mountain, towards a big mountain ridge that

1511
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 1: ran along the north section that we were hunting. And

1512
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 1: then they crossed the creek, went up this ridge, and

1513
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: then started going straight up the ridge. They go straight

1514
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: up the ridge, we get to what I think is

1515
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,280
Speaker 1: like two thirds of the way up or something, and

1516
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: then they hooked to the right. They take a hard

1517
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:54,320
Speaker 1: right turn and start side hilling across the ridge. And

1518
01:27:54,360 --> 01:27:58,080
Speaker 1: when that happened, I thought to myself, Okay, this seems

1519
01:27:58,160 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: like this seems like the these deer were heading up

1520
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,439
Speaker 1: the hill and now they turned, they're gonna look for

1521
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:05,680
Speaker 1: somewhere to bed soon. So I started slowing down. I

1522
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,559
Speaker 1: started thinking, I bet you any moment now we're gonna

1523
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:09,840
Speaker 1: come across the bed or we're gonna see these deer run.

1524
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 1: At least we're getting closer to that. But we end

1525
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: up following this. Um, We're up following it, sidehiling for

1526
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 1: longer ways than I was expecting, without them like stopping

1527
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:24,680
Speaker 1: and feeding. I was looking. I was. I kept on

1528
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:27,559
Speaker 1: looking for signs of them stopping and feeding. I kept

1529
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: looking for signs of them stopping and milling around or

1530
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 1: spinning around or changing direction that might indicate like they're

1531
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 1: getting ready to bed or something. UM. So I would

1532
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 1: say at this point, I was like medium pace. I

1533
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: wasn't creeping, but I wasn't cruising either. Um. And what

1534
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:44,600
Speaker 1: they did is they they side hill for ways, and

1535
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 1: they kind of went up a saddle and then turned,

1536
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,760
Speaker 1: and then instead of going over the saddle and down

1537
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 1: the other side, they turned up and continued going higher

1538
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 1: up this ridge. UM. And this is when they got

1539
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 1: into some thick green stuff. And as soon as I

1540
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: saw their going to thick green stuff, now, I thought, okay,

1541
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:06,320
Speaker 1: now they're definitely gonna bed Like this looked like this

1542
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:07,960
Speaker 1: had to be where they're gonna bed. And I remember

1543
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:10,599
Speaker 1: looking at jim Or and saying, Okay, we're gonna slip

1544
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 1: into ultimate death creep mode. They can be anywhere around here. Um,

1545
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: I really believe like they're up here. And just at

1546
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 1: that moment, like a little bit of a breeze started blowing,

1547
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 1: and I thought, this is perfect, Like we couldn't have

1548
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,760
Speaker 1: asked for better timing for this breeze to start, because

1549
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,080
Speaker 1: I've been worried about our sound of course, the whole time,

1550
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 1: and it just seemed ideal. And so I kind of

1551
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:34,599
Speaker 1: was holding the gun at the ready, and we just,

1552
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: I mean acted as if there was a buck within

1553
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 1: fifty yards or within a hundred yards. I was, you know,

1554
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 1: taking just the slowest creeps, and I was crawling underneath branches,

1555
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 1: and we were in some really thick stuff where you

1556
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 1: couldn't see it all unless you were down on your

1557
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 1: knees and looking underneath it. And we were crawling through things,

1558
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: climbing over dead falls, under dead falls, belly crawling under branches, um,

1559
01:29:57,920 --> 01:30:01,920
Speaker 1: going through this stuff that just screamed betting. I mean

1560
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,439
Speaker 1: just absolutely every ounce of my being, all my hairs

1561
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 1: were on edge. It was just like, Okay, it's we're

1562
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 1: gonna see this deer or we're gonna spook this deer.

1563
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 1: But it's happening. Um. Now, before we go any further,

1564
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: Jim or what did you think about this part of

1565
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 1: it when when we slipped into this new mode? What

1566
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 1: were you thinking about what I was doing? What were

1567
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:23,880
Speaker 1: you thinking about the situation? What were your thoughts on that? Yeah,

1568
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:28,400
Speaker 1: I think you're describing it completely accurate. Um. Is it

1569
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:31,639
Speaker 1: healthy to have your adrenaline that high for as long

1570
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 1: as that day? I mean we started the day off

1571
01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:36,679
Speaker 1: on such fresh tracks, and I felt like, like you said,

1572
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,040
Speaker 1: I felt like we were fifty yards behind these deer

1573
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:42,599
Speaker 1: all day. But this specific moment, I mean I just

1574
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 1: went especially at this time. I try to step when

1575
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 1: you step, but boy, that was that was some thick brush. Um.

1576
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, it just felt like this was it. Were

1577
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:56,599
Speaker 1: there there there on this nice ridge overlooking as how says,

1578
01:30:56,680 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 1: looking back from where they came. Uh, it had to

1579
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 1: be that moment. Yeah, And with that kind of situation

1580
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 1: ended up lasting an hour. I think at least at

1581
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,720
Speaker 1: least an hour, if not more, because we kept on

1582
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,280
Speaker 1: slow moving our way through this stuff, and then we

1583
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 1: come over a little like every little new area, could

1584
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 1: see every little rise, we'd peek over. I kept thinking like,

1585
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: we're gonna peek over one of these bits, and we're

1586
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 1: gonna see a beded deer. We're gonna see a back,

1587
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: we'll see an ear twitching, We'll see a little patch

1588
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: of white tail, we'll see an antler. Time moving the sunlight.

1589
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 1: I just kept stopping and looking and glassing and thinking

1590
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 1: like anywhere here it's gonna be. But we never came

1591
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:39,200
Speaker 1: on them, and they just kept We kept being on

1592
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: the tracks and they started doing the thing though that

1593
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 1: again they hooked up to the top. They came up

1594
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:49,080
Speaker 1: this little knob. Now they were milling. They'd stop. You

1595
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: can see where they're feeding and nibbling and stuff. They're

1596
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of spinning around milling. You can see one of

1597
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 1: the deer would kind of loop around the other and

1598
01:31:55,520 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: up and down and around in this little zone, and

1599
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 1: um it just they kept doing that for quite a ways,

1600
01:32:02,479 --> 01:32:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean for at least an hour and I don't

1601
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:06,839
Speaker 1: know how much time that was or how much distance

1602
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: that actually was. I would bet it was at least,

1603
01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:13,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple hundred yards of that kind

1604
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 1: of behavior that we were like slow creeping through. Don't

1605
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: you think something like that? Jim? Yeah. And there was

1606
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,000
Speaker 1: a many moments where we just had to pause and

1607
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:25,519
Speaker 1: maybe even backtrack just to keep track of where their

1608
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:27,960
Speaker 1: their prints were going because they were just kind of

1609
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 1: over the place. Yeah, they'd loop and then we'd be like, oh,

1610
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,080
Speaker 1: did they just come back there we were and then

1611
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:35,680
Speaker 1: come back here and there, and um to to to

1612
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 1: go from there. Basically that was like an hour long

1613
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 1: creep fest thinking we'd find him and and never did

1614
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 1: until we finally went several hundred yards doing that to

1615
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 1: three yards two hundred yards of that something like that,

1616
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,679
Speaker 1: and then um, it kind of opened up a little

1617
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:54,920
Speaker 1: bit more and they're still going and it starts opening up.

1618
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't as thick as it had been. I was thinking, man,

1619
01:32:57,080 --> 01:32:59,760
Speaker 1: are they just gonna keep cruising? And probably just as

1620
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 1: I started having that thought, here's a bed, here's a

1621
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:08,840
Speaker 1: big bed, and it's fresh, like very fresh, and I realized, oh,

1622
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: we just bumped this buck out of here. Um. And

1623
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: so then I'm thinking, well, we've already done a sandwich break.

1624
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:19,240
Speaker 1: Now I just bumped this buck a second time. And

1625
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:21,519
Speaker 1: right as I did that, right as we bumped that deer,

1626
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 1: a snow squall moved through and it starts like dumping

1627
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: snow on us. And I remember being unsure of what

1628
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:31,000
Speaker 1: to do next, because I thought, I remember the sandwich

1629
01:33:31,040 --> 01:33:33,080
Speaker 1: break rule, But at the same time, this is the

1630
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: second time. Does it Does it count on the second

1631
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:37,400
Speaker 1: time or not? I couldn't remember that. And the second

1632
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 1: thing I thought is, Man, if this snow squall keeps

1633
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:43,120
Speaker 1: on going at this rate, well I lose the tracks.

1634
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 1: So I was torn, should I sit? Should I keep going?

1635
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:49,280
Speaker 1: Do I sit for a little while and then keep going? Um?

1636
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 1: What I ended up doing is we ended up stopping,

1637
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: and we took a short break, like a fifteen minute break,

1638
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:56,640
Speaker 1: and then we picked it back up. Hell, what do

1639
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,000
Speaker 1: you think about that piece of what we were doing there?

1640
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:02,800
Speaker 1: Both my my death creep mode there and then secondly

1641
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:08,639
Speaker 1: my decision when it came to that second bump. Yeah, well,

1642
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 1: obviously you knew you had you had an idea he

1643
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:17,920
Speaker 1: might be laying and and he was, So that worked

1644
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:19,640
Speaker 1: for you. He didn't see him, but it worked for

1645
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:23,920
Speaker 1: her anyway. And then, Um I would have used I

1646
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't because I don't, like I said, I only stopped

1647
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,880
Speaker 1: taking break the first time, so I wouldn't have done that.

1648
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:32,839
Speaker 1: Plus combined with the fact that it was snow squall,

1649
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 1: and I'd use the snow squall as my my buck

1650
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: killing time, you know what I mean, it helps your out,

1651
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:43,679
Speaker 1: you know, it blowing around the snow and stuff. You know, Yeah,

1652
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:47,599
Speaker 1: that makes sense, Jimmer, Why don't you tell me do that?

1653
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:52,640
Speaker 1: Just kicking myself right now? Ye could he could? He

1654
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 1: used that nudge. Um, I needed the standard break. So yeah,

1655
01:34:58,120 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: that was. It was good at that break because that

1656
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: was really I mean that hour or two of creep mode.

1657
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: I mean that was that was excruciating. The level of

1658
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: attention to detail I was trying to put into our

1659
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:13,680
Speaker 1: movements there. I mean, that was the sneakiest I've ever

1660
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 1: tried to be, probably for as long of a period

1661
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: of time, and moving slowly and like thick cover like

1662
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 1: that that I can remember. Um, I really thought like

1663
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:24,520
Speaker 1: this is gonna be our one chance, this is it, um,

1664
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:28,120
Speaker 1: But that didn't happen. So we end up getting back

1665
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 1: on the trail and trying to cover ground again. I

1666
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: remember seeing running tracks for a while. We can still

1667
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:40,400
Speaker 1: follow even though it's snowing, And at this point, I'm thinking, Okay,

1668
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:42,439
Speaker 1: he knows we're on him. This is the second time

1669
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,920
Speaker 1: we bumped him. He's moving and I kept thinking to myself, Man,

1670
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: what would Hall do in this situation? I just I

1671
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: couldn't remember getting to this point. In our conversations with you, Haley,

1672
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 1: we talked about if you bump a deer once, I

1673
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:55,559
Speaker 1: didn't really know what do you do when you bump

1674
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:58,080
Speaker 1: about twice or three times? Like what's how's this dear?

1675
01:35:58,160 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 1: Is this deer ever gonna slow down and chill out

1676
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:02,559
Speaker 1: or is he just gonna be really on edge the

1677
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 1: whole time and I'll never be able to catch up

1678
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:06,719
Speaker 1: to him. But I thought to myself, Okay, we bumped

1679
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 1: him twice. I'm just gonna push him at this point

1680
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 1: and and try to try to get lucky. And so

1681
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I need to cover around, take advantage

1682
01:36:14,240 --> 01:36:16,280
Speaker 1: of the snow, and not lose the track. So we

1683
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:18,640
Speaker 1: started moving faster at this point, like right back up

1684
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:23,759
Speaker 1: to full speed probably, and we he went running down.

1685
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:26,560
Speaker 1: If I remember it, he went running side hill on

1686
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: the ridge and then start going down the ridge and

1687
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: then sidehilling more. And then he turned to go back

1688
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:35,400
Speaker 1: down the hill and then looped slightly. It was like

1689
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: it was downhill. And then he started curving to the

1690
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,880
Speaker 1: right and then boom, there's another bed and he was

1691
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,879
Speaker 1: out of that bed. And you could I mean it was,

1692
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:46,160
Speaker 1: this was as fresh as you could possibly possibly. I

1693
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:48,679
Speaker 1: could still see like hair marks from where his tail

1694
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:50,840
Speaker 1: had been laying in the snow. You could see like

1695
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:54,160
Speaker 1: that level of detail. So now I bumped him three

1696
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: times and and now and now I kind of feel like,

1697
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:00,960
Speaker 1: is this a lost cause? Um, this book is just

1698
01:37:01,040 --> 01:37:03,960
Speaker 1: running and running, and so we keep going. And I

1699
01:37:04,040 --> 01:37:06,320
Speaker 1: just look back at Jim and I just said, man,

1700
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 1: we're just gonna we'll probably never see this book, but

1701
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:10,960
Speaker 1: we're just gonna run them down and we're just gonna

1702
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:13,639
Speaker 1: go and go and go. And I remember saying something

1703
01:37:13,680 --> 01:37:16,240
Speaker 1: like this. This reminded me of I don't know if

1704
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: you've heard these stories hell, but there's talk of some

1705
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 1: uh like tribes in Africa and different parts of the

1706
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:26,240
Speaker 1: world where they have historically done something called persistence hunting.

1707
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 1: Where they would just run after an antelope or something

1708
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:31,360
Speaker 1: and they would run for hours and hours and hours

1709
01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:35,840
Speaker 1: and hours, and eventually humans actually have an endurance advantage

1710
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:38,200
Speaker 1: over a lot of animals that can't cool as well

1711
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 1: as we can in the middle of an event like that,

1712
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 1: and they would actually be able to run an animal

1713
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: to exhaustion and then you know, be a spirit or

1714
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,360
Speaker 1: something like that. I remember thinking, am I gonna try

1715
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:51,040
Speaker 1: to do a persistent persistence hunt on this book and

1716
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 1: just keep going and going and going. And I mean, Jim,

1717
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 1: I remember you. I stopped at one point and you

1718
01:37:57,320 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: looked at me, like, dude, you're just running in the woods,

1719
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,719
Speaker 1: and I even it wasn't the were his tracks pretty

1720
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 1: pretty like he was speeding up quite a bit at

1721
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 1: this point, I mean he was. He was basically kept

1722
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:11,559
Speaker 1: on running. And then I was like, well, we needed

1723
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 1: to keep moving, so we were. I was just going

1724
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 1: as quickly as I could through the woods, just on him,

1725
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 1: and we just went and went and went and went,

1726
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:20,640
Speaker 1: and in my head I thought like, we're never going

1727
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:22,840
Speaker 1: to see this deer like he he knows we're behind us.

1728
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:25,640
Speaker 1: And this was my next point in decision where I

1729
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:28,840
Speaker 1: was like Okay, we bumped him three times. I don't

1730
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 1: see any I just couldn't imagine a scenario in which

1731
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 1: we could kill this deer. And I kept wondering, is

1732
01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 1: the is the way to go to just keep going

1733
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 1: and going and going and hope to get lucky, and like,

1734
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:40,559
Speaker 1: I'll just happen to come over a hill one time

1735
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: a little bit faster than he expects. And I get

1736
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: a side of him, like do I need to hope

1737
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:46,800
Speaker 1: for that luck? Or is there some other trick that

1738
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: Hale does you know that I don't know about yet

1739
01:38:49,400 --> 01:38:51,679
Speaker 1: that would allow me to get on this deer? Um.

1740
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:54,920
Speaker 1: I remember reading about you doing like a loop around

1741
01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 1: trick Hall, where sometimes you'll loop around ahead of a buck,

1742
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 1: and I was trying to think, you know, what's the

1743
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 1: scenario that I would do that? How could I loop

1744
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:05,000
Speaker 1: around and try to get ahead of this deers? Do

1745
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 1: I know this area well enough? And I just couldn't.

1746
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:08,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't think they're a way to do it in

1747
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:12,240
Speaker 1: a way that would actually be useful without just being

1748
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:15,519
Speaker 1: like a hail marry in the dark. Um. So we

1749
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:17,840
Speaker 1: just walked and walked and walked until finally it was

1750
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 1: almost the end of the day. My question to you,

1751
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:23,760
Speaker 1: Hall is after that third bump, in this indecision I

1752
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 1: had at that moment, how would you have handled that?

1753
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:28,599
Speaker 1: Is there any other trick in your bag of tools

1754
01:39:28,640 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 1: that you would have pulled out of this point? Or

1755
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:33,160
Speaker 1: is it just walk, keep walking and hope to get luckier?

1756
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:38,840
Speaker 1: Is there something else? Well, there's two kinds of deer

1757
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: uh habits that they do once in a while. I

1758
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 1: think it's about I figure it's probably one out of

1759
01:39:46,160 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 1: ten you'll get these bucks. I call them runners, and

1760
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:52,640
Speaker 1: they will do that from the time you jump on

1761
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:55,120
Speaker 1: the first time. But this one wasn't like that, so

1762
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:58,679
Speaker 1: it's a little different situation. But sometimes you get a runner,

1763
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 1: and that's what he that's how he learned how to

1764
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 1: escape a coyo was he'd run for a mile and

1765
01:40:05,479 --> 01:40:10,120
Speaker 1: then just lay down and watch his track again, and

1766
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:12,639
Speaker 1: if you jumped him again, he'd run another mile. Those

1767
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 1: bucks there are nearly impossible to kill on the track

1768
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:19,960
Speaker 1: because they're gonna just they're gonna just they might just

1769
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 1: drop right in the track somewhere. They might run across

1770
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: and open him and just drop down and watch, so

1771
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: you never get an indication of where they You know

1772
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 1: that they might be laying down. You never get that

1773
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:36,160
Speaker 1: because they just they run and stop and lay down.

1774
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,160
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to kill those bucks like that tracking

1775
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 1: them then. But but you just got this buck frightened

1776
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:47,479
Speaker 1: because you jumped him out of his bed again, and

1777
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:52,880
Speaker 1: you usually by running after him like that, you're not

1778
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 1: gonna get him that way usually because they just wait

1779
01:40:56,160 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 1: when they see movement coming. Now, they're not even gonna

1780
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:02,000
Speaker 1: let you do anything. When they see movement coming, they

1781
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 1: just take off again and keep going. On those, all

1782
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 1: I try to do on those is is um, I

1783
01:41:12,080 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 1: just try to go. It depends what they're doing when

1784
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: they run. If they're running, and they're usually that buck,

1785
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:25,719
Speaker 1: if he runs, slows down, starts walking again, he's gonna

1786
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:30,400
Speaker 1: wait and look again. That's just almost always what they do.

1787
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:33,919
Speaker 1: They're gonna keep They're gonna keep watching because they're alerted

1788
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:38,240
Speaker 1: to something's after him. But all I'm doing is hoping

1789
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:45,840
Speaker 1: that he makes the mistake once and stops where I

1790
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: in a place where I can see him first, So

1791
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 1: I don't run after him because I'm more I'm more

1792
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:58,720
Speaker 1: looking a lot more now, not that I'm going. I

1793
01:41:58,760 --> 01:42:02,160
Speaker 1: don't like slow down to a creep, but I just

1794
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 1: go along. If he's running, I move along. Once he

1795
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:10,400
Speaker 1: stopped running again, I started going easy again because I

1796
01:42:10,439 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 1: know he's gonna be there looking somewhere up and I'm

1797
01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 1: just hoping I can catch him in the right place.

1798
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:21,760
Speaker 1: And and I guess a good good example that you

1799
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 1: can see of that or anybody can is on that

1800
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:28,720
Speaker 1: my brutus film there on YouTube. Is that's all I

1801
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 1: did with that buck was I finally got his m

1802
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: all what he would do. He would run, but he

1803
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:39,240
Speaker 1: didn't run that fire. And then he'd walk. And then

1804
01:42:39,240 --> 01:42:43,000
Speaker 1: when he would be like like quick walking, and then

1805
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 1: when he would start dragging his feet, that man he

1806
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:48,320
Speaker 1: was gonna lay down. Took me a little bit to

1807
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:50,840
Speaker 1: figure that out. But every time he dragged his feet,

1808
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 1: he'd be laying there pretty close watch him back. So

1809
01:42:56,360 --> 01:42:59,639
Speaker 1: when I finally shot him, he had run down off

1810
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:01,880
Speaker 1: this ridge for quite a ways. He just wanted to

1811
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 1: get out of there because I just shot at him.

1812
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: And he crossed the road again, the gravel road, and

1813
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:11,639
Speaker 1: got down into some kind of mixed growth, some green

1814
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:14,800
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then it got into kind of a

1815
01:43:14,880 --> 01:43:18,280
Speaker 1: thick thing, and then he started dragging his feet so

1816
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:20,600
Speaker 1: I said, he's gonna be laying here somewhere. So I

1817
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:26,120
Speaker 1: just started going easy and he kind of cleared up

1818
01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 1: the end of this. He was in a little skin

1819
01:43:28,920 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 1: of trail, and then he turned abruptly to the left

1820
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:34,559
Speaker 1: and I didn't step out. I stopped and I just

1821
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:38,760
Speaker 1: kind of peeked through the limbs of the spruce trees there,

1822
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:42,000
Speaker 1: and I could see him laying there looking back, about

1823
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:48,000
Speaker 1: thirty five old yards maybe thirty five yards, and I

1824
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:52,720
Speaker 1: just got my foot swung around and let him have it,

1825
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 1: laying in his bed there. So if i'd have stepped out,

1826
01:43:57,880 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 1: I was just hurrying too much. He had just jump

1827
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:04,640
Speaker 1: up and took off again, right, So I just I

1828
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:08,160
Speaker 1: guess that's what you call catching him looking. You know,

1829
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:13,040
Speaker 1: he was looking, but I just kind of I anticipated

1830
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:19,120
Speaker 1: that and I saw her him first. You know. Yeah,

1831
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:24,519
Speaker 1: there's definitely a it's a certain artistry to knowing how

1832
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:28,720
Speaker 1: to handle these different moments, these like inflection points with

1833
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:30,880
Speaker 1: an attract job. It feels like you know, like what

1834
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,040
Speaker 1: to do when you catch up, what to do when

1835
01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:36,600
Speaker 1: you see these different behaviors, how to handle different conditions.

1836
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:40,240
Speaker 1: I mean, there's all these different little variables that I

1837
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 1: suppose just with time and experience, you develop an intuition

1838
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 1: for how to deal it um and you know, having

1839
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:52,000
Speaker 1: not done it before. I guess I can't feel I

1840
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:54,280
Speaker 1: don't feel too bad that I didn't know some of

1841
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:57,160
Speaker 1: these things. But I do feel like every one of

1842
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,280
Speaker 1: these experiences you get, we'll certainly change is how you

1843
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 1: approached the next one. I could just see that, even

1844
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,960
Speaker 1: day after daily, each day I'd go along and be like, Okay,

1845
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,200
Speaker 1: I better know how to deal with this. I kind

1846
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,240
Speaker 1: of get what I'm seeing here. I understand this part.

1847
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 1: You could see that rapid accumulation of information happening real time. Yeah.

1848
01:45:17,439 --> 01:45:19,920
Speaker 1: And then the other thing you always got to remember, though,

1849
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:23,840
Speaker 1: is they're all individuals and they don't all do the

1850
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 1: exact same thing. So you've got to try the key on,

1851
01:45:27,439 --> 01:45:30,639
Speaker 1: key in on what your buck that day is doing.

1852
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,760
Speaker 1: What is a little thing that he might do that's

1853
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:39,120
Speaker 1: different that that clues you to how you can react

1854
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:43,559
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah. I had I had one of my

1855
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:46,759
Speaker 1: books saying this story in about this buck for some reason,

1856
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:50,800
Speaker 1: when he was going to lay down, he would he

1857
01:45:50,840 --> 01:45:56,840
Speaker 1: would abruptly turned off his track and take a couple

1858
01:45:56,840 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 1: of jumps and then then go lay down. So I

1859
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:07,680
Speaker 1: just keyed in on that, and uh, I didn't end

1860
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:10,599
Speaker 1: up shooting that Bucky. I knew he was laying down,

1861
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:14,400
Speaker 1: and I circled this piece of woods that he was

1862
01:46:14,439 --> 01:46:16,800
Speaker 1: in and he didn't come out, So I knew he

1863
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:18,960
Speaker 1: was laying there, but I didn't have enough time done

1864
01:46:19,439 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: go back and hunt it. I mean I didn't say

1865
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:24,719
Speaker 1: go back to say it, but I didn't have time

1866
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,840
Speaker 1: too well. Knew what it would have taken to get

1867
01:46:27,920 --> 01:46:29,960
Speaker 1: him because it was too late. I was three o'clock

1868
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:32,519
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, I had an hour to I had

1869
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 1: about five miles to get out of there, and I

1870
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:39,479
Speaker 1: had about an hour left the daylight. So there was

1871
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 1: another one of them long walks out in the dock. Yeah,

1872
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 1: it's uh, it seems like you could do this for

1873
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 1: nearly a lifetime and still sometimes be surprised by things

1874
01:46:51,400 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 1: and find something new. And I think that's what I

1875
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:59,480
Speaker 1: liked about it. Having done it, tried it, um and

1876
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:02,360
Speaker 1: and we're running not time, so I'm gonna really fast

1877
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:05,479
Speaker 1: forward through stuff because I didn't anticipate this taking as

1878
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:09,280
Speaker 1: much time as it has um. But you know, that day,

1879
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:10,960
Speaker 1: it didn't catch up to that buck when the next

1880
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:13,600
Speaker 1: day didn't find a track until the last couple of

1881
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: hours followed one never took us anywhere really, and that

1882
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:20,360
Speaker 1: was it, you know, I we did it. We gave

1883
01:47:20,360 --> 01:47:22,880
Speaker 1: it a good shot. I had a couple tracks to follow.

1884
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:24,760
Speaker 1: I had one really good one that you know, I

1885
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 1: thought we were we could have pulled it off. So

1886
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:29,720
Speaker 1: that was it was really cool to be on that

1887
01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,679
Speaker 1: one and to be that in the moment and feeling

1888
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:34,400
Speaker 1: like he could be just ahead of us at any

1889
01:47:34,439 --> 01:47:37,840
Speaker 1: moment um. That was. That was absolutely high point. Never

1890
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 1: did see one though, um and that was the trip.

1891
01:47:41,200 --> 01:47:44,040
Speaker 1: I remember. One main thing at the end of it

1892
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:49,160
Speaker 1: was that this one left me with like left me

1893
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:52,720
Speaker 1: with like a I don't I don't want to say

1894
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:54,600
Speaker 1: like h that I wanted to scratch, but like a

1895
01:47:55,080 --> 01:47:58,439
Speaker 1: like a clawing desire to get back and pull it off.

1896
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:02,080
Speaker 1: Was basically like this one. I didn't want this idea

1897
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:03,880
Speaker 1: of this type of hunting to defeat me. I don't

1898
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:05,120
Speaker 1: know if that's what I'm trying to say, but I

1899
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:08,240
Speaker 1: want to figure out some way to do it. So

1900
01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm gonna be back, I'm

1901
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:16,640
Speaker 1: gonna be trying this thing again. In one way or another. Um,

1902
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 1: really quick, we just have a couple of minutes for

1903
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:21,839
Speaker 1: I actually have to run too. But Dylan final thoughts

1904
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:24,559
Speaker 1: or impressions. After having gone through all this and seeing

1905
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:28,400
Speaker 1: this yourself real quick, I think I'm in the same

1906
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:31,200
Speaker 1: boat as you in that I really want to see

1907
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:34,360
Speaker 1: success in doing this, you know, whether that's behind the

1908
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:36,600
Speaker 1: camera or you know, someday getting to do it on

1909
01:48:36,640 --> 01:48:39,320
Speaker 1: my own. But you know, just that feeling of following

1910
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:41,559
Speaker 1: an animal and feeling like you know it by the end.

1911
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 1: You know, you follow it for so long you feel

1912
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:49,200
Speaker 1: like you know it's happened, and to catch up to

1913
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,720
Speaker 1: it and finalize, you know, clothes on it. I think

1914
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,960
Speaker 1: it's something that, um, I look forward to trying again

1915
01:48:54,960 --> 01:49:00,720
Speaker 1: in the future. Yeah, what about you, Jimmer. I thought

1916
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:03,479
Speaker 1: it was fascinating how fast time actually went. I mean,

1917
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 1: from first light to last You're so involved in this mystery,

1918
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:13,439
Speaker 1: like Dylan says, learning the patterns of this dear. You've

1919
01:49:13,439 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 1: only you've probably got it only this day, this amount

1920
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 1: of light to figure out this person or this dear,

1921
01:49:19,280 --> 01:49:22,960
Speaker 1: this personality of this deer. Um, it's just amazing how

1922
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:24,600
Speaker 1: fast the time went, because all of a sudden you're like,

1923
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:27,880
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, we're we're an hour till sundown and

1924
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:31,599
Speaker 1: we're still it still feels like we're fifty yards from

1925
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 1: this deer. Yeah, that was something. Hell. I just want

1926
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: to reiterate again what we said when we were down

1927
01:49:40,280 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 1: there with you, and I'll say to you every time

1928
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 1: I see again, which is just thank you, thank you,

1929
01:49:44,960 --> 01:49:47,160
Speaker 1: thank you. Can't tell you how much we appreciate you

1930
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 1: taking the time to to walk around with us out there,

1931
01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:52,240
Speaker 1: to show us what you do to to teach us

1932
01:49:52,360 --> 01:49:56,680
Speaker 1: your ways. Um. It was an absolute blast. Um, And

1933
01:49:56,720 --> 01:49:58,400
Speaker 1: I guess I want to give you an opportunity here

1934
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:00,679
Speaker 1: for people that want to learn more are from you,

1935
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:04,439
Speaker 1: who wanna participate in your classes or read your books,

1936
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:07,280
Speaker 1: or watch your videos or anything. Where should they go

1937
01:50:07,400 --> 01:50:12,280
Speaker 1: to find that stuff and to get more information, Well,

1938
01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:16,000
Speaker 1: you can find everything really at bigwoods bucks dot com.

1939
01:50:16,160 --> 01:50:19,479
Speaker 1: And uh, they want to watch any of the films

1940
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 1: on YouTube, it's the Big Woods Box YouTube channel. Uh,

1941
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:30,080
Speaker 1: the outfitter part of it, the hunts on the same website,

1942
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:33,280
Speaker 1: Big Woods Boxes, just as an outfitter tab they had

1943
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:37,840
Speaker 1: and that that has the classes on it too. You know,

1944
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 1: I do those in the spring. They're actually all booked

1945
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:45,479
Speaker 1: the next spring. But um, I'm just starting to book

1946
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:47,880
Speaker 1: the hunts for next fall, you know, I'm getting to

1947
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:51,520
Speaker 1: return people booked in then whatever I have for openings,

1948
01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 1: I'll fill in with with new people and go from there.

1949
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:03,600
Speaker 1: So but yeah, uh, it's just a different way to

1950
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:06,479
Speaker 1: do things. And like I said, I tell everybody, it's

1951
01:51:06,520 --> 01:51:09,120
Speaker 1: a it's a way of hunt. And you either you

1952
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:11,320
Speaker 1: either love the big woods so you hate it. It

1953
01:51:11,320 --> 01:51:16,920
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be any in between. But I ended

1954
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:19,960
Speaker 1: up loving it when I first started doing it forty

1955
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:24,240
Speaker 1: years ago with forty some old years ago and going

1956
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 1: to hunt somewhere else. Now was you know, like in

1957
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 1: rural farm country. I just can't seem to do it.

1958
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:35,920
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. Hell,

1959
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:38,920
Speaker 1: And I hope that we can get on and do

1960
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:42,080
Speaker 1: another one of these episodes next year or two years

1961
01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:44,960
Speaker 1: from how or whenever it is someday to to talk

1962
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 1: through my first successful track. I am. I'm counting on

1963
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 1: having that conversation with you someday down the road soon.

1964
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 1: Hell sounds good, all right, Dylan, Jimmy, everybody, thanks so

1965
01:51:57,200 --> 01:51:59,360
Speaker 1: much for joining me for this one guys, thank you

1966
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:03,960
Speaker 1: all right, thank you brow or not all right, And

1967
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 1: that is today's episode. Hope you enjoyed this one. Thank

1968
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:11,519
Speaker 1: you for tuning in. If you're still hunting, best of

1969
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:15,479
Speaker 1: luck out there, have some fun, eat some venison. Until

1970
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:18,160
Speaker 1: next time, stay wired,