1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you missed in history class from 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: I'm Chacy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Today we 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: are drawing straight from the listener requests again. So is 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: another one that has been requested many, many, many times. 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: It is orphan trains. If you have never heard of 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: orphan trains before, this probably sounds to you like trains 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: full of orphans being taken to new homes. Just kind 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: of correct. Between eighteen fifty four and ninety nine, about 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand children were taken to new 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: families by train, except they weren't really called orphan trains 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: at all at the time. A lot of the children 13 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: were not actually orphans, and a lot of times these 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: families who were taking them in were more like employers. 15 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: So that is a story that we're going to tell today. Uh, 16 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: And to get kind of some groundwork, lad We're going 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: to start with the context of the situation. After the 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: end of the War of eighteen twelve, the population of 19 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: the United States, and particularly in the eastern ports cities, 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: really exploded. For example, about forty thou people lived in 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: New York and eighteen hundred and by nineteen hundreds, of 22 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: just a hundred years later, it was close to a 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: million and a half. So many of these new residents 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: were desperately poor and very sick, having arrived with basically 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: nothing from wherever they were immigrating from. UH and depending 26 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: on where they were immigrating from, they often faced a 27 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: lot of prejudice and discrimination, which made it harder for 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: them to find work and get on their feet. As 29 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: a consequence of this influx of people and poverty, the 30 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: US saw the rise of its first slums. Poverty has 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: had always existed, but now there were entire neighborhood that 32 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: were really destitute. They had high crime rates, the buildings 33 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: were deteriorating, and the circumstances were just apparently hopeless. And 34 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 1: that was the prevailing scenario, and an alarming number of 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: the people who lived in these neighborhoods were children. Some 36 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: of the children really were orphans uh some had at 37 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: least one living parent who for whatever reason couldn't or 38 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: didn't support them, but regardless, by the mid eighteen hundreds, 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: there were somewhere between ten thousand and thirty thousand homeless 40 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: children living in the slums of New York City, which 41 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: at that point only had the whole city only had 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: a total population of five hundred thousand people, so that's 43 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: a pretty significant chunk of the population that are homeless 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: street children. In New York and other cities, children formed 45 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: gangs to try to keep themselves safe and supported themselves 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: through petty theft and other crime, or even through begging. 47 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Others would find work in fact trees or as newsboys 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: or shoeshine boys, and some sold matches or rags on 49 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: street corners and in some cases became prostitutes because they 50 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: kind of wandered like nomads through the city. People referred 51 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: to these children often as street arabs, and this all 52 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 1: kind of calls up images of like scrooges, street urgins 53 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: or Oliver twist Um, and for a lot of children, 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: that's pretty much how it really was. And when then 55 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: were the resources to handle them, cities resorted to incarcerating 56 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: children in workhouses and prisons that had been meant for adults, 57 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: but eventually they would build prisons and asylums for juveniles, 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: which were really not much better. The field of social 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: work also barely, if at all, existed at this point. 60 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: We've done a previous series of podcasts on Jane Adams, 61 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: who thought of as the mother of social work. She 62 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: started doing her groundbreaking work kind of in the middle 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: of when all of this was going on. So there 64 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: was you know, if if law enforcement found a child 65 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: who was in danger, there it wasn't like there was 66 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: a social worker or a department of social services they 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: could call for help. There was also no foster care system. 68 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: Foster care itself did exist, but it was in a 69 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: very informal way, with individual families taking on children in need, 70 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: and in that sense, fostering has really existed for as 71 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: long as families have. But there was no organized system 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: for placing children in foster families or for screening potential 73 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: foster parents. And there were also virtually no adoption laws 74 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: in the United States at this point. The first adoption 75 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: law passed in the US was in Massachusetts and that 76 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: was past an eighteen fifty one. But other than that, 77 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: there was, you know, before that point, there was no 78 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: legal governance about how one made it official that this 79 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: child was now part of your family. So, as a 80 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: result of all of this and all of these sort 81 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: of gaps in uh a social way to deal with 82 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: all these children. Homeless children were a huge issue in 83 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: many cities, particularly port cities, and the government's in question 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: just didn't have the resources or programs that they would 85 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: need to do much about it. This brings us to 86 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: Charles Loring Brace of Hartford, Connecticut. He was a Presbyterian 87 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: from a middle class family, and he moved to New 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: York City in eighteen forty eight so he could go 89 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: to seminary. He was really horrified at this situation with 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: homeless and orphaned children. And it was not just because 91 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: what was happening to these children was horrifying. It was 92 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: also because he thought that these hordes of unsupervised, marauding 93 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: children were a threat to the social order. His opinion 94 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: was that these kids who didn't have families and were 95 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: kind of left up to their own devices and were 96 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: often making ends meet for themselves through petty theft and 97 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: other crime. Uh, he just thought they were gonna gonna 98 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: grow up into hardened criminal adults, and he became really 99 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: fixated on them. He would go exploring through the city's 100 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: poorest neighborhoods and interview them and record their conversations in 101 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: a journal, and he became really motivated to try to 102 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: find some way to take care of this problem of 103 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: homeless children left alone to do as they will. In 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: March of eighteen fifty three, he started the Children's Aid Society, 105 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 1: and the first programs of the Children's Aid Society were 106 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: Sunday School and vocational training, and the society also started 107 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: the United States first home for runaways, the Newsboys Lodging House. 108 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: Almost immediately though, the Children's Aid Society was just overrun 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: with demand. There were not enough jobs or enough money 110 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: to provide the services that these children really needed. Um. 111 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: You know, at this point in history, it was pretty 112 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: normal for children to work in some way. And while 113 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: they were trying to match up children with jobs, the 114 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: children vastly outnumbered the jobs. Uh. And they did not 115 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,559 Speaker 1: have the funding to to do more to really help. 116 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: And Brace wanted to do more, But he didn't just 117 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: want to build more facilities to handle more children. He 118 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: thought prisons and asylums were the wrong approach. In his words, quote, 119 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: the best of all asylums for the outcast child is 120 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: the farmers home. The great duty is to get these 121 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: children of unhappy fortune utterly out of their surroundings and 122 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: to send them away. To kind Christian homes in the country. 123 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: This is kind of alludes to the plan that Brace 124 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: came up with, which he called the Immigration Plan. This 125 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: was that they would gather up children from New York 126 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: who were homeless or whose parents couldn't care for them, 127 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: and they would send them west to work on farms. 128 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: This became known as outplacement. So you're placing children out 129 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: versus placing them into an orphanage or an institution. He 130 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: didn't exactly invent the idea of outplacement, uh. The This 131 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: act of like placing children out with other families existed before, 132 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: but the Children's Aid Society and Brace's influence on it 133 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: really became the biggest and most well known outplacement effort. 134 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: So the Children's Aid Society turned its focus to raising 135 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: money and working through all of the legal requirements involved 136 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: in finding new homes for children, and to finding the 137 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: children to send, sometimes working directly with the birth parents themselves. 138 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: As the Children's Aid Society started sending the children out 139 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: on trains and the program really started to take off, 140 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: other agencies followed suit and they placed children from other 141 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: major cities in the Northeast elsewhere in the United States 142 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: and Before we talk about what exactly was happening with 143 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: these trains, let's take a moment for a brief word 144 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: from a sponsor. So let's take a look at what 145 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: was going on with the orphans and the trains. So, 146 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: before being put on the trains, these children would be 147 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: given new clothes or put into their best clothes if 148 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: they had clothes that were serviceable. Often this meant that 149 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: they were in a new outfit that had been provided 150 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: to them by charity. They were meant to look their best, 151 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: but depending on how long and difficult the journey was, 152 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: sometimes what really happened was by the time they arrived 153 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: they were filthy and sick. Someone representing the agency usually 154 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: went on the train with them, and often another agent 155 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: had gone ahead to spread the word and begin screening 156 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: potential parents and assembling a committee of local people, which 157 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: usually included doctors and clergy to help with the approvals. 158 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: Agencies would also distribute leaflets and place advertisements about the children. 159 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: Here's an example of an ad that ran in Nebraska. 160 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: In all children received under the care of this association 161 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: are of special promise in intelligence and health, and are 162 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: in age from one month to twelve years and are 163 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: sent free to those receiving them on ninety days trial 164 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: unless a special contract as otherwise made. Homes are wanted 165 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: for the following children. Eight boys, ages ten, six and 166 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: four years English parents. Blondes very promising two years old, blonde, 167 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: fine looking, healthy American, has had his foot straightened, walks 168 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: now okay. Six years old, dark hair and eyes, good looking, 169 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: at intelligent American. Ten babies boys and girls from one 170 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: month to three months. One boy. Baby has fine head 171 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: and face, black eyes and hair, fat and pretty three 172 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: months old. Agencies also had rules for the placements themselves. 173 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: Here's the Children's Aid Society rule for the placement of boys. 174 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: Applications must be endorsed by the local committee. Boys under 175 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: fifteen years of age, if not legally adopted, must be 176 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: retained as members of the family and sent to school 177 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: according to the educational laws of the state until they 178 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: are eighteen years old. Suitable provisions must then be made 179 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: for their future. Boys between fifteen and sixteen years of 180 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: age must be retained as members of the family and 181 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: sent to school during the winter months until they're seventeen 182 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: years old, when a mutual arrangement may be made. Boys 183 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: over sixteen years of age must be retained as members 184 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: of the family for one year, after which a mutual 185 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: arrangement may be made. Parties taking boys agree to write 186 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: to the society at least once a year, or to 187 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: have the boys do so. Removals of boys providing unsatisfactory 188 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: can be arranged through the local committee or an agent 189 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: of the society, the party agreeing to retain the boy 190 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: a reasonable length of time after notifying the society of 191 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: the desired change. This kind of reminds me of, uh, 192 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: when you get a pet through pet rescue, Like yeah, yeah. 193 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: And obviously this particular set of rules is from after 194 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: states that started to pass abaction laws, which was actually 195 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: done in part to kind of curtail the more willy 196 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: nilly aspects of this placement of children that was going on. Um. 197 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: When the train arrived at a town, the children would 198 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: be taken to a playhouse or a theater or some 199 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: other suitable gathering place that had places for spectators and 200 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: places to display the children, and the children will be 201 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: paraded across the stage for the families to inspect. And 202 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: so the term up for adoption purportedly comes from this 203 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: practice of literally putting the children up on stage, and 204 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: often the whole town would come to watch whether they 205 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: wanted a child or not. Sometimes the children would be 206 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: asked to say something or perform in some way, and 207 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: the prospective families would ask questions of them and sometimes 208 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: inspect them in a way that was more reminiscent of 209 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: buying a horse or a slave. In some towns, demand 210 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 1: for these children was really huge, and families would almost 211 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: come to blows over who could pick from the limited 212 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: number of children. Foster families were supposed to have references 213 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: from their pastor or the justice of the peace attesting 214 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: to their character, but if none was available, the agent 215 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: in charge would often just judge based on their appearance, 216 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: their dress, and their demeanor. Children who couldn't find a 217 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: placement would be put back on the train to be 218 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: sent on to the next town, or, failing that, would 219 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: wind up in a local orphanage or some other local 220 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: facility for homeless children. For most agencies, the record keeping 221 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: was pretty lax um, The screening was pretty minimal, and 222 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: depending on who you asked, these people taking in children 223 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: could be considered parents or they could be considered more 224 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: like employers. There was also not a lot of follow 225 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: up after the facts. Travel was really difficult and expensive 226 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: at this point, which became a big deterrent against sending 227 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: representatives from the agencies to check up on people. Uh. 228 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Some of them, like the Children's Aid Society, had planned 229 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: initially to do in person follow ups on a regular basis, 230 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: but that never really came to fruition uh. And that 231 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: pretty much meant that they were relying on the families 232 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: or the childre are in to send letters back to 233 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: the agency, which also sometimes happened and sometimes not. And 234 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: although most of the agencies that were kind of doing 235 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: these sorts of projects of out placing children followed similar methods, 236 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: the Children's Aid Society really got some particular criticisms, and 237 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about those after we have a 238 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: quick word from our sponsor. So a lot of agencies, 239 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: not just the Children's Aid Society, got involved in sending 240 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: children out west or to some other place by train. Um. 241 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: Charles Loring Brace in particular, though, had some aspects to 242 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: what he was doing in his philosophy that are kind 243 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: of problematic. He was really sure that farms were the 244 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: best places for New York's impoverished children. They would get 245 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,119 Speaker 1: used to doing honest work there, and they would ideally 246 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: have the affection and support of a family. And this 247 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like an at least well meaning 248 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: plan on the surface, but there are aspects of it 249 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: that are pretty problematic. Fewer than half of the children 250 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: that were sent on the trains by the Children's Aid 251 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: Society were actually orphans. Roughly a quarter of them had 252 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: one living parent, and about a quarter had both parents 253 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: still living, so fifty of them had some parents in 254 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: the mix. Arguably the living parents couldn't afford to or 255 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: didn't want to raise their children, or the children were 256 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: being abused, neglected, or mishandled in some way. Some were 257 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: also teenagers who were making the step to leave home 258 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: themselves with the aid of this free passage and clothing 259 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: and work help that would come without placements. Yeah. I 260 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: did not find horror stories of like children being taken 261 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: with no regard to their parents, but I did find 262 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: ones where the parents were pressured pretty extensively to give 263 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: up their children for their better good, you know, based 264 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: on the person who was speaking to them's idea of 265 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: what would be best for them. Um. His critics argued 266 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: that Brace was really taking it upon himself to dictate 267 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: what was best for these children, regardless of the parents 268 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: feelings or their actual situation. And as a side note, 269 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: the existence of parents for about half of these children 270 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: is one reason why the phrase orphan trains wasn't really 271 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: used at the time. The more common terms for the 272 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: setup were mercy trains and even baby trains. So one 273 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: of brace's actual stated goals was also to provide labor 274 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: and the less popular populated regions of the United States 275 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: where people were moving. Uh you know, there were new 276 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: families who were getting out to somewhere in the West, 277 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, in a typical situation, they probably 278 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: would eventually have children, and the children were eventually helped 279 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: them on the fire. But they needed that child like 280 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: that child help now. Um. So for this reason, most 281 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: of the Children's Eights Society's children were between six and fourteen, 282 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: so they were old enough to do work, but young 283 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: enough to still be like trained and educated and maybe 284 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: not so said in their ways and and obstinate as 285 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: to cause problems for their new families. BRACE also definitely 286 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: had some monetary motivations, pointing out how much cheaper it 287 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: was to place children out than to put them into institutions. 288 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: And the last one is something that he denied, but 289 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people pointed out a lot of the 290 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: children who went on Children's Aid Society trains were Catholic 291 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: or Jewish, and a lot of them were also Italian, 292 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: Polish or Irish, and these were all groups who faced 293 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: massive amounts of prejudice and discrimination. Um, Italian, Polish and 294 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,239 Speaker 1: Irish people were all viewed as like second class and 295 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: inferior citizens. The families who received these children were mostly Protestant, 296 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: and they were mostly not Italian or Polish or Irish, 297 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: and so critics argued that Brace was trying to kind 298 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: of strip these children of their religion and their heritage 299 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: and to force them to assimilate to the culture that 300 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: he thought was the best one. Um. His like this 301 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: was sort of the response of him being like nah, 302 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: and his critics being like, yuh huh, Like it does 303 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: seem a little uh, a little problematic. That that was 304 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: that was generally how it went. He would say, well, 305 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: but they're they're just aren't as many you know, non 306 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: Protestant people out west, That's why. And people would say, 307 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: I don't really buy your argument. It definitely, like the 308 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: data set does sort of support a certain prejudice going 309 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: into it. The Children's Aid Society also did not work 310 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: with African American children, although exactly why this is the 311 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: case is not really clear. There were definitely fewer African 312 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: American homes in the West that could have taken the children. 313 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: But it's also possible that this whole exercise looked way 314 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: too much like slavery for anybody to be comfortable sending 315 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: black children. Or it's also very possible that racists did 316 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: not want that to be part of the system. Yeah, 317 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: nobody really clearly said why they were not working with 318 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: African American children. Some of the other outplacement organizations, seeing 319 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: what Brace was doing and seeing the flaws that people 320 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: were pointing out in his plan, tried to avoid the 321 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: controversies that he was generating. So, for example, the New 322 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: York Foundling Hospital was a Catholic organization, and it's since children, 323 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: including babies and toddlers, a lot of babies and toddler's 324 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: actually exclusively to Catholic homes. The Boston Home for a 325 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: Little Wanderers also claims that it's screening and follow up 326 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: processes were much more exact and stringent than BRACES. Were 327 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: so um. While the Children's Aid Society was the most 328 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: well known, there were a lot of other organizations that 329 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: were into this whole practice, and some of them, either 330 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: by their own claims or by actual documentation, seemed to 331 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: have taken more deliberate care with the whole process. Yeah, 332 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: and while the Children's Aid Society was mostly sending children 333 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: out to rural farming communities, the New York Foundling Hospital 334 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: and other agencies replacing children much closer to home. So 335 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: many of the children who were placed during this time 336 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: actually stayed in New York, contrary to the perception that 337 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: they all went west. And some of the other agencies 338 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: were definitely more oriented towards children's welfare and not so 339 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: much with the providing labor aspect of it. So this 340 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 1: whole phenomenon of the trains and outplacement it really hinged 341 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: upon assuming the best in people. So everybody was assuming 342 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: that the parents who were surrendering their children generally were 343 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: doing so because they thought it was in the children's 344 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: best interests uh. And everybody sort of assumed that the 345 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: parents who were taking in these children really were doing 346 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: so out of love and charity and not just to 347 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: get free labor. But in reality, of course, people are 348 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: not always doing their best, and when it comes to 349 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: what happened to the children that were involved, it's really 350 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: something of a mixed bag. Some found themselves genuinely in 351 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: happy homes, when they were loved and cared for, as 352 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: though they were a member of the family, working alongside 353 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: other siblings on farms or in family businesses. The whole 354 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: practice had its share of horror stories too, though they 355 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: were definitely children who were abused, one whose foster families 356 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: took them on strictly to act as unpaid manual labor. 357 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: There were family members who were separated one another, separated 358 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: from one another, and and the like. There are lots 359 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: and lots of surviving letters and diaries that tell of 360 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: children whose parents sent of a way with notes that 361 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: contained their names and their addresses so that they could 362 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: come back home eventually and stay in touch, only for 363 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: these notes to be taken away from the children by 364 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: placement agents as they slept on the trains. That's so heartbreaking, uh. 365 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: There are also many, many first person accounts of children 366 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: who just did not know or understand what was happening 367 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: to them. Some were too young to really grasp the situation, 368 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: and others were simply never told what was going on, 369 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: and in at least some cases, parents seem to have 370 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: been pressured, as Tracy mentioned earlier, into surrendering their children 371 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: when they didn't really want or possibly even need to. 372 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: Outplaced children also did not necessarily get a warm welcome 373 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: in their new communities. A lot of people viewed the 374 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: trained children as they were called, with suspicions. Surely they 375 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: must have been of poor character or have come from 376 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: bad families. There were also religious and cultural tensions as 377 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: Catholic children were placed with Protestant families, and as we 378 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: were speaking earlier speaking about earlier ethnic tensions with Irish 379 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: and Polish and Italian children who were placed into communities 380 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: that carried prejudices against all of these people, all of 381 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: these nationalities. So sometimes, you know, somebody, a child would 382 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: leave a situation where they were homeless and begging out 383 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: the streets, and they would wind up in the situation 384 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: where they had food and shelter, but were outcast and 385 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: faced derision from the community. And there were also cases 386 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: where foster parents had taken in these children and they 387 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: truly loved them and you know, raised them as their own, 388 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: and they lived in this sort of constant fear that 389 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: someone was going to come and take their child away 390 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: from them someday. There was finally an independent investigation of 391 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: the Children's Aid Society in eighteen eighty three, and it 392 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: found that there was very little screening of the prospective 393 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: parents and very little supervision of the overall process. A 394 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: significant number of the older boys who had been outplaced 395 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: had later run away from home, But overall, the investigators 396 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: found that for the most part, the children under the 397 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: age of fourteen who had been outplaced by the Children's 398 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: Aid Society we're doing okay. Outplaced as a child. Andrew 399 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: Burke became governor of North Dakota and John Brady became 400 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: governor of Alaska. They had both been sent to the 401 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: same town in Indiana on the same day, and the 402 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: man who adopted John Brady had actually been a judge there. 403 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: Because records weren't kept very well, while we do have, 404 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: you know, stories about what some of his children grew 405 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 1: up to be, a lot of times the children who 406 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: had been placed out lost all track of their birth 407 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: families if those families still lived, and so in you know, 408 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: more recent years, their children and grandchildren have been trying 409 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: to trace down the family genealogy and just have been 410 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: unable to figure out where their parents or grandparents came 411 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: from before they got on the train. The last train 412 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: ran on May thirty one, nine, carrying three children to 413 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: Sulfur Springs, Texas. And there were several things that kind 414 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: of worked altogether to really bring an end to this 415 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: UH approach to outplacement. One was at the Great Depression 416 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: made the trains financially unsustainable UH, and people began to 417 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: focus more on local outplacement of children. Prior to that, 418 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: the trains had gone nearly to every state included in 419 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: as well as Canada in Mexico. But also a big 420 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: factor in it was that social agencies had started focusing 421 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: on trying to keep children with their birth families wherever 422 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: that was possible. The agencies that had been part of 423 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: the orphan train movement later morphed into adoption and foster 424 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: care agencies as we think of them today, and Brace's 425 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: idea that children are better off in homes than in 426 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: institutions continues to be at the heart of today's foster 427 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: care programs. This movement is often credited for spawning the 428 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: foster care system as we know it today, and many 429 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: states adoption laws were put on the books in an 430 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: effort to rain in Brace's seemingly haphazard placement of children 431 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: with families. A lot of the news articles that you 432 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: will see about the Orphan Trains the American Heritage series 433 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: that was are the American Heritage uh TV show installment 434 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: that was about the Orphan Trains. Most of these are 435 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: from the mid nineties nineties, as the last writers of 436 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: the Orphan Trains were getting into their eighties and nineties, 437 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: so very few, if any, of the people who were 438 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: placed out on the trains survived today. But fortunately in 439 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties, people did a lot of 440 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: documentation of like oral histories and first person accounts and 441 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: talking to people who had ridden on the trains and 442 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: been placed with the new family about their experiences. Today, 443 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: the Orphan Train Complex and other Orphan Train historical and 444 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: heritage societies trying to keep the movement documented and help 445 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: the descendants of children's who road to trains connect to 446 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: one another. So a whole lot of people have asked 447 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: us to talk about orphan trains. It's fascinating it well, 448 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a whole lot more 449 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: layered than what I knew of it going into it. 450 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: I basically knew the orphan trains. They took orphans on 451 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: trains to get new families, and that is pretty reductive. Yeah. Well, 452 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: and it's one of those things that there are a 453 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: lot of complex angles to it, Like wow, the initial 454 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: impetus for it was surely like a good intent, you 455 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: know it it ended up doing some not so great things, 456 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: but also had some legacies that were good. Yeah. Well, 457 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: and I think one of the things that uh may 458 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: not have occurred to anyone, or it might not have 459 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: been nearly as much common knowledge at the time, there 460 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: have definitely been efforts in multiple places in the world 461 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 1: two place minority children with majority families in an effort 462 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: to make them assimilate. Um. And while that was not 463 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: the like specified intention of any of the agencies that 464 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: were running orphan trains, it did have a little bit 465 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: of that flavor, which is troubling. Yeah, it's a like 466 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: I said, good and bad, some good legacy, some very 467 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: unfortunate circumstances. But do you have a spot of listener 468 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: mail for us? It is from Valerie. Valerie says hey, 469 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy. I was so excited to hear the 470 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: Pueblo Revolt episode. I, along with others, I am sure, 471 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: sent in a request for so long ago. I spent 472 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: a lot of time as a kid learning about that 473 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: time period outside of school. Growing up in Santa Fe 474 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: with my dad. Curating a Navajo museum has affected my 475 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: life in so many ways. Things like spending a couple 476 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: of weeks one winter living in a hogan is not 477 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: part of everyone's childhood. There's a favorite story that my 478 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: friend of my dad's told us that I thought you 479 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: guys might enjoy. Two of the artists my dad met 480 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: through the museum used to give tours around the Peblos 481 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: around Arizona and New Mexico. They were getting off the 482 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: bus with a group at a Hopie village. They walked 483 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: up to the village and there was a large sign 484 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: asking the visitors to respect the laws of this area 485 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: since it is an independent nation. The first on the 486 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: list was no photography. A lady in the group was 487 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: taking pictures of the sign, saying photography wasn't allowed. They 488 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: asked her to stop and not take any pictures. The 489 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: woman responded that they should have told her if they 490 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: really meant it. I wonder if they put up a 491 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: secondary part of the sign that said no, we really 492 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: mean it. Oh yeah, so that's that's a gonna get to. 493 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: This was so surprising to them that it became kind 494 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: of a joke phrase ending states, statements and requests with 495 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: and I really mean it. They even began to use 496 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: the acronym A W R M I and we really 497 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: mean it etched into the jury they made as part 498 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: of the identification marks. Uh. That cracked me up. That 499 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: is so every few podcast there's one that I know 500 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: some of the basic information because of a board game 501 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: I had played based on that time period. Most recently, 502 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,479 Speaker 1: I played a game themed to being dressmakers in the 503 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: French Court a little before the time period of Rose Berton. 504 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: I ended up winning the game, and like the thing, 505 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: knowing about Rose gave me an edge. I also have 506 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: a game called voc about running ships as the Dutch 507 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: East India Company. I think that if I studied all 508 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: the themes of the games I played, I could probably 509 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: become a history buff. And then Valerie has an episode suggestion. 510 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to read this in part because the the 511 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: and I really mean its story made me laugh so hard. Uh, 512 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: And because I love having board games that have some 513 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: kind of nod to history somehow or tie into history 514 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: in subway. Um, we have a giant board game closet, 515 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: several of which have some kind of historical high end 516 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: or theme. UM like Carcasson is one where you make 517 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: a French town. It's pretty awesome. So thank you, Valerie. 518 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can. 519 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: We're at History Podcast at Discovery dot com. Our Facebook 520 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: is Facebook dot com slash miss in history, and our 521 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: Twitter is miss in History. Our tumbler is mrs in 522 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: history dot tumbler dot com, and we're also on pinterrestt 523 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: pinterest dot com slash missed in History. Our very own 524 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: website is that missed in history dot com. And if 525 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: you would like to learn more about what we've talked 526 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: about today, you can come to our parent website, how 527 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com, and you can put in the 528 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: word adoption in the search bar and you will find 529 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: how adoption works. You can learn all about that and 530 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: a whole lot more at our website, which is how 531 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for moralness and thousands of other topics. 532 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: Because of how stuff Works dot com in