WEBVTT - Bob DiPiero 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:14.880 Carola. She's the queen of talking. He was sown, you man. 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:18.239 She's only is side. She got the snoop on the 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:28.360 on the ones to side. No one can do with clide, Carola, Carola. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:36.320 No one can do with clid like Carola Tile. Caroline. Hey, y'all, 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.800 welcome to Hyper Caroline Hobby. I am your host, Caroline Hobby. 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:42.519 I know music, I know people, and I know the 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.440 questions do you want to ask? So let's get hyper 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.479 heads up. These are adults having adult conversations, so there 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:54.160 could be adult content. Today. We have bobbed up Hero. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.400 He is one of the most amazing songwriters in Nashville. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.800 He's written over fift number one hits, He's written over 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.560 ten top ten hits, and then over a thousand songs 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.120 he has written have been cut for other artists. He 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.840 also happens to be one of the funniest, most endearing, 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.959 charming men ever, and he talks all about his journey 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:18.040 to Nashville from Ohio. So interesting. Here he is welcome 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:24.400 Bob to Bureau. Hello Bob ro Hello Caroline Hobby. You 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.600 got it right because you knew he was Caroline cut Berth. 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.200 I did know he was Caroline cut Berth and now 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.920 I know he was Caroline cut birth Hobbies, correct, Demondo. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.119 So this is a fun day and a fun way 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.440 to start this interview because I got to hear this 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.800 song you just wrote with Fancy, with Fancy and Ian Keggy, 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:51.240 and it's called dirty Love, Dirty Love, and it lives 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.400 up to that time. Actually it's just called dirty. It's 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.840 basically like, don't love me unless it's dirty, don't watch 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:02.400 your love unless it's dirty. Hook up song. Well, yeah 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.800 it is, but it's also I don't know, you know, 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.560 it's a very sexual song, but it's also about I 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.440 just want it all right? Where do you get your inspiration? 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.160 Like where does the song like that come up? Do 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:16.680 you do you walk in and be like, okay, I 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.440 want to walk up. I want to write about hooking up, 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:24.560 but you don't have a stick around, you know, it 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.760 would it would surprise you where that came from. It 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.840 came from some deep conversation that I was having. You 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:37.360 know that happens with Leslie, when my wife Leslie, and 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:43.639 it was a very serious conversation. And what was it about. Well, 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:49.160 it was about being honest with each other and uh 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:57.800 being just letting it out, like sexually everything. Hi, Leslie? 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.400 Oh sorry, Leslie? Comes, say how we're talking about you? 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.840 Come on, we're talking about on this podcast. We're talking 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.280 about how dirty was inspired by you guys. Well, I 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:12.760 was telling her it was inspired by a conversation we 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.400 had that was not It was serious. It was a 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.639 serious conversation. Yes, I'm not a dirty girl, adventurous girl, 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.680 but listen, to keep a marriage spicy, you have to 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.200 stay at venturous. Well, I get out, by the way, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:32.800 anyone listening Leslie Thomasina. Her name is Leslie Thomasina. Dapiro 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:37.120 no is smoking hot. Bob has a rocking hot wife. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.880 And she was just in the Vagina Monologues in Nashville. 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.560 You were there, and you were in the vagina audience, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.680 and I was laughing. I was, I was, I was 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:47.760 in the vagina. I never knew how much I loved 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.000 vaginas until I saw you in it. All vaginas. We 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.040 have vagina crushes on each other. There you go. Do 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.000 you need to tell Bob something? Well I was going 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.600 to tell him. I gotta go running over the other clients. Well, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:04.200 see you get home. Look how cute you guys are? 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:11.880 We okay, get that dirty love ready for when he's home. Okay, 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.880 So it's inspired by a conversation. Yeah, And songs are 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.159 usually to come about you have to get really deep. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:23.280 But that's I mean, what's interesting about co writing is 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:28.640 that the subject matter might mean something to me that's 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.159 totally different from what it means to my co writer. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.839 You know, where maybe Fancy was just thinking about some 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.760 dirty love, but I was thinking about this other thing. 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:47.000 But you know, you put the minds together and something 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.279 bigger shows up, you know. So we're sitting here in 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.080 this room we're calling it the Bunker, which is your studio, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:57.080 and literally wall to wall of songs that you have written, 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:02.159 like huge freaking hits. You've had fifteen number one, fifteen 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:03.920 number one songs. Let me throw some of those out there. 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.520 American made by oak Ridge Boys. That was your first 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.240 number one song, first number one song in nine three. 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:19.520 I was wow you were born, then I'm sold. Okay. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:26.440 You're from a steel manufacturing center of Youngstown, Youngstown, Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:30.120 which used to be Did your family work in steel? No, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.240 believe it or not, there were. We were one of 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:36.279 the very few families who didn't. My my dad actually 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:42.160 was a foot doctor, a pediatrist. Yes, he was a 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:46.520 foot doctor. And my mom was a housewife. She was 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.000 a stay at home housewife. Okay, so how did you 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:51.960 discover this love of music because you also went to 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.359 music college, I did you know, and you were in 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:01.200 hard rock bands, yes, or bands that I mean. I 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.640 went through a series of bands, you know. But it 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:10.560 started out, you know, like so many people of my age, 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:16.520 my vintage, Uh, seeing the Beatles on TV for the 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:21.159 first time, that was it. I was blinded by the light. 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:24.680 I mean, it was just like, okay, I want to 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:30.760 do that. What about that excited you? Well, the music 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.920 was more like magic to me at the time. You know, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.800 it's just how do they do that? And they were 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:43.560 smiling and girls were screaming at them of course of 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:50.120 course blooded American male, Yes, and uh, it was it 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.039 was that. And so, like everybody else, I bought a 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.960 guitar and went into the garage with my brother and 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.640 some of his friends, and we had this not really 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.400 good band, you know, and we played Beatles songs and 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:12.720 and I it just never stopped for me. Yeah, I sang. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.160 I started out I'm going to tell you something you 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:20.040 don't know. I started out as a ROADI. I think 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:25.240 I was the first official ROADI really for your for 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:31.720 your brother's bandy my brother's band. Uh. They had gotten 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.520 a New Year's Eve gig. I wasn't playing in that band, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:40.840 but I so wanted and and we were so young 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:45.920 that none of us drove. So the drummer's dad came 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.360 over to pick my brother up, and while we were 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:51.120 waiting for him to show up, my brother was like, 0:07:52.080 --> 0:08:00.120 you can't go. He's really like, that's so it got 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.040 You can't You're not gonna go. You're not gonna go. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:08.560 And and Ralph Desimon was the drummer's name. His dad 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.080 showed up and he opened the door, came in the 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.280 house and goes ready to do. Yeah, how about you, Bobby? 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:19.600 You ready? I'm not going? Well why not? Well, Don 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.240 said I couldn't go. Of course you can go, come on, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:28.160 and my brother's like dash. I just Thenity took the 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.120 open opportunity and I just jumped in there and she 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.160 started being the ROADI eventually got asked to be in 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:39.319 the man No I. Eventually, while I was a roady, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.760 I eventually picked up a tambourine and I would kind 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.480 of play it off to the side, you know, and 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.360 I'd inch up a little bit more. I totally it's 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:52.040 my way in the story of my life. Hey, but 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.080 I mean, Bob, it's not like there's a whole lot 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:58.400 of options in the steel town of Ohio, right. No, 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.360 there wasn't. But I was just in this. You're the 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.000 I'm the younger brother, and I just I just had 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.840 to be involved. I just had to be involved. So 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:12.480 I was practicing guitar and doing all this stuff, and 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.040 I just had to be involved. And that was so 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.600 I got into a band. I got into that band, 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.959 and and then he went to the music college. Did 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:23.960 the band ever getting success? Or was that just like 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.920 the gateway drug into the world? It was. It was 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.680 kind of a gateway drug. But that band went through 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:36.640 several incarnations, and my brother and I were playing together, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:42.120 and then we started yet another band with the same 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.840 Ralph I was telling you about, and another Ralph. We 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:49.280 had Ralph and Ralph. Did you we should have? Oh 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:53.840 we weren't smarter? That so much smarter? So you go 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.600 to college, go to college after this band, and do 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.760 you start really studying music? Yes, I mean the band. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.720 You asked me if we had any success? We got 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.160 hooked up with a lead singer who was also from 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.520 the next time, but he was older than us, and 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.240 somehow he had gotten some kind of for cocta record 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:19.880 deal from from this very unknown label called Paula Records 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:24.120 in Shreveport, Louisiana, and so somehow they didn't want a 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.880 solo singer. They wanted a band. So he said, you're 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.120 my band, and so we flew down to Shreveport, Louisiana 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:34.440 and started recording, and nothing really came of it, excepted 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:40.040 I started to see a scratch. Oh man, I got 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.280 a big old dose of it, and I loved every 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:47.959 minute of it. So came back and and Youngstown State University, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.520 which is where I went and where I graduated from, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.560 had a small part of that school called the Danas 0:10:55.600 --> 0:11:00.720 School of Music and it and I was, I was just, 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:03.920 to be honest, I was just trying to stay out 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.600 of the army because they had the draft back then, 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.280 and I was I was not into what was happening, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.160 you know. So I just hung onto my draft deferment 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.440 by going to school and I'm going, well, I'm here. 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.840 I love music, and so I started taking music courses 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.240 and I I was like so many musicians. I couldn't 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.240 really read music hardly at all, but I had a 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:31.840 really good I had developed an ear so that I 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.000 could hear something, I could play it back, so I 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.720 would fake a lot of but I just heard it, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.880 you know, and I could get pretty close to it. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.320 And so yeah, I went there and I started taking 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:49.040 really traditional theory and harmony. It's not like what we 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:56.280 know today like Belmont offers here, just very contemporary music business, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:59.600 recording arts, all that stuff. It was just a real 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.760 bag that traditional theory and harmony course. And I played 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.000 in the jazz Man there, and I studied classical guitar, 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.760 and I sucked at classical guitar because I'd sit there 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.959 and start practicing these studies, and about twenty minutes in 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:21.800 I'd be writing a song. So that's when you discovered songwriting. Yeah, 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:26.320 I mean songwriting came from for me being in a band. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.520 Everything sprung from being in a band because my heroes 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:33.240 at the time were the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:37.040 and I'd read all their their album covers and I'd 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.520 look and it was Lenna McCartney, Lenna McCartney, Jagger Richards, 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.840 Jagger Richards, and these guys write their own songs. So, well, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.840 if you're in a band, you write your own songs. Okay, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.320 I'm gonna write my songs. Were you good at writing 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.240 songs in the beginning, I don't know. I know, I 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.640 mean I was. I guess I could see that, I knew, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.040 I knew how it went, I knew how how the 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:06.440 structure went, and I was I was really good at 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:12.920 seeing images in my head, well just stories in your 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.319 head kind of sort of or or to me, I 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.559 always described as like a piece of d N A, 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.360 you know, like what they do now they can clone 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.679 as sheep from one little piece of d N as 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:29.160 Like if I just got a title, that's somewhere that 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.960 I can grow the song from. Or if I just 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:35.080 got a little guitar part, well that's another part I 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.880 can grow the song from. Or we're talking about something 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.480 and I get a feeling, well that's another piece of 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.360 DNA that can grow a song. Imagination. I have a 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.720 wild amagage very well, But you can grow a whole 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.280 song from a tiny little nugget. I guess that's the 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.880 best way to describe it. Yeah, I guess it is 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.480 inspiration that you can grow it. Yes, I always say 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.840 I I pray. When I pray, I don't pray for 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.520 a hit song. I pray for inspiration. Ohays, say, God, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.520 just give me the inspiration. I'll do all the heavy lifting. 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.640 That's amazing. It's it's what I've done all this time. 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.680 And I have friends and and they've got like the 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.120 they've got like the secret recipe to coke that they 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:29.520 just keep churning an app But for me, it's always 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.360 I'm looking around. I think you have that sec your recipe. 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.080 I guess. I don't know. It doesn't feel like that. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.800 It's always a new new feeling. I think that's the 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.760 sign of a true person who's not You're not. You're 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.480 not satisfied as all you've accomplished, like you're still hungry 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.920 for it. Like even though you are in the Songwriters 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.280 Hall of Fame, which is huge, you've had fifteen number ones. Like, 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.280 how many top tens did you have? I don't know, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.960 Honest to god, I don't know. You've written over a 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.360 thousand songs that have been cut by Yeah, that's crazy, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:06.280 that's stupid. I've written too many songs. No, that's crazy. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.479 You have your you have a star on the Songwriters 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.680 Walk of Fame, Nashville's Walk of Fame in between Jimi 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.880 Hendrix and Barbara Mandrell, which I always said pretty much 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.600 is exactly where I'm at, somewhere between Jimmy Andricks and Barbara. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.920 I love that. Well, So, Okay, you're in this band, 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.960 you start writing songs, you go to school, you keep 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.560 continuing your craft. What is a moment where you're like, 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.400 I'm moving to Nashville to be a songwriter. I was 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.680 in college, I was playing in bands at night. I 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.280 was given guitar lessons in the late afternoon to pay 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:49.440 the rent. And uh. I had some neighbors who lived 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.040 in an apartment where I was living, and they were 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:57.280 also songwriters, and but they were really and then they 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:02.520 were really songwriters. And they started talking about going to Nashville. 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:05.440 So I heard this week, why would you go to Nashville? 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.200 Not at all? I mean I knew zero minus zero 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:15.160 about country music, honest honestly, there were I don't remember 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.760 any country radio stations up there, or maybe I just 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:24.120 didn't want to hear. I only listen to Top forty 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.160 radio and rock and roll. You know, That's that's what 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.080 I listened to, you know. And and so to make 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.480 a living. I would sometimes I go to the only 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.040 recording studio in Youngstown, which was this Polkas Studio. Youngstown 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.400 is very well known for their polka bands, if I 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.080 had to, I mean, I'm not saying that I don't 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.440 like polka, but actually there's many Grammy winners come from Youngstound, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:56.280 Ohio because it's doing polka. So fact, there's a fun 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:01.280 fact right there, Like rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.480 Oh yeah, that's like trickling down in the Ohio area. 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.760 Oh absolutely absolutely trickled down. And during all this time, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.800 I would go out to the bars at night and 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.480 listen to the rock and roll bands, and I saw 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.679 Bob Seger playing in clubs, and I would see the 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.560 James Gang with Joe Walsh playing in clubs. And I'd 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.439 come home and I go, I'm so screwed. If every 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.520 little talent Youngstown has got guys like that, I got 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:37.040 no chance. But it really informed me what excellent really was. 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.080 Started off seeing great right away, yeah I did, and 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.560 it really was well and and me and me thinks 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.760 you're really good, you know, but and that makes you 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:50.240 feel good, But what is good? You know? And even 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:57.159 going to school and learning the true theory of harmony 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.679 inform me what was really exceptional. So I got that 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.440 in my head. Okay, that's that's what exceptional is. Joe 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:11.520 Walsh is exceptional. You know. Bob Seeger is really really good. 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.760 You know, did you from the beginning put pressure on 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.760 yourself to be one of the greats? Like? Is that 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.080 the category that you were striving for? Is that the 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.880 company that you like? Nothing below that great status would work? 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.000 Is that where you set your bar? You know? I 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.320 wish I would say yes, but I was just floating 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.800 in the music I didn't have. I'm going to be 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.040 Elvis Presley. It really wasn't like that. I just wanted 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.639 to play music, and I wanted to be in a band, 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.600 and I saw those guys and and all I would 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:50.120 think was, Man, wouldn't it be great to be like that? 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.320 You know what? It would be so great? And I 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.680 would just get this in my mind and think about 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.399 it and dream it. So I guess I dreamed it. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:01.200 And my my dad always said and I had delusions 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.120 of grandear. He would he you know, I'd say, Dad, 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.960 and I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna write these songs, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.320 and and he's going you have delusions of grandear. You know, 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.160 this is gonna burn out and you're gonna finally get 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.439 a job. What are you talking about? You know? And 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:21.200 as time went on, these delusions of grand ear became reality. So, okay, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.960 speaking of that, you your friends are in college. They're saying, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:25.879 we're going to Nashville. You're like, what the heck is Nashville? 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.639 What's country music? You start hearing about it, You're like, okay, 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:32.360 I'm coming with you. I didn't they moved, Okay, they 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.560 said we're going. They weren't college guys, they were just 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.480 street guys, and they said, we're moving to Nashville to 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.840 the songwriters and artists. They wanted if there were two guys, 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.119 and they wanted to be a duo. They wanted to 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.760 be the Everly Brothers or something. And so I kept 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:54.000 in contact with him, and I decided, and I honestly 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.679 say this, I knew my car would not make it 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:01.000 to l A, but I knew it could make NATS. Phil, 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.879 you should write that song, I know. Actually that's a 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:09.480 great visual. You need inspirations. I mean, I had gone 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.920 to New York City to try and peddle this album 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.960 we made, and it just I'm not being honest. It 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:23.479 just totally overwhelmed me and NWY it was just like 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:28.640 whoa I was. I wasn't ready for it. But uh, 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.920 and then in the meantime, I had started writing songs, 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:36.040 you know, and Uh, I would trade out time with 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.760 the only studio in Youngstown. I would. I would say, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.000 you have a bread commercial, Okay, I'll write your bread commercial, 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.760 and you give me the studio from ten o'clock at 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.000 night till six o'clock in the morning. And that's what 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.119 I would do. I'd go in there and record these 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.639 record as bread commercial and then I'd record these songs 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.840 I was writing. And those were the songs that I 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.439 brought to Nashville. Was American made in that batch? It 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:07.560 was not in that batch. No, none of those songs, 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:10.240 none of the songs you're describing, was in that batch. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:12.280 Let me give you a little rundown really fastest. Some 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.800 of the number one songs that Bob Papiro has written 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.880 American made. Oakridge Boys, Wink, Neil McCoy, I love that song, 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:22.639 Blue Clear Sky, George Straight, Oh my God, love it, 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.640 Daddy's Money, Ricochet, World's Apart, Vince Gill, that rock Won't Roll, 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.800 Restless Heart, Little Rock by Reba, Do You Love Me 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:34.640 Just Say Yes? Highway one oh one, Church on Cumberland Road, 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.960 Shannon Doah, Money in the Bank, John Anderson, Take Me 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:39.719 As I Am, Faith Hill, Oh my gosh, I love 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.080 that song Till You Love Me Reba, their Planner Song, 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.359 Neil McCoy, If you ever stopped loving me, begun, re 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:48.040 Gentry Southern Voice, timor Gal. I mean number one songs. 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:49.959 You've had fifteen number one songs. That's not even your 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.760 top ten songs, which I won't even go through all those, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.200 because I think you have over like how many top 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.639 tens do you have? How many Top Caroline? I couldn't 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.800 tell you. I'm not that kind of guy that goes, well, 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.800 you know what, I have thirty Top twenties, i have 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.600 twenty two Top eight teams, I've got seven Top five. 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.360 I know how many number ones I have and after that, 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.879 I don't. I'm not counting. It's it's like, yes, I 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.320 like number one songs. Number one songs are great. I 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.120 love to get more of them, you know, But I'm 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:30.800 just just inspiration for inspiration every day. Yeah, yeah, it's 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.800 not about counting the number ones or what and it's 0:22:33.840 --> 0:22:38.119 not about what happened. It's to me, it's always about 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.480 what's going to happen. So you do not live in 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.840 the past. No, And it really pains me when I 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.360 see a lot of my contemporaries who do living off 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.760 their past achievements. Well yeah, not that that they shouldn't 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:57.680 be saluted. No, they should be saluted. But I mean, well, 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.919 back when I was having my big success, music was 0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.880 so much better. This music sucks now, you know. It's like, 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.960 come on, man, you know there's good. You know, there's 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.480 good everywhere, and there's bad everywhere, you know, and and 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.399 they kind of get caught in that space, you know. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.800 But I've always wanted to just move forward. And I 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.240 saw that you said you always want to stay relevant, 0:23:22.400 --> 0:23:25.800 And what how do you do that? Because you have, 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:28.960 how have you done that? And what is your secret 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:33.120 for staying relevant? I just try to keep a student's heart. 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.400 You know, A student is always learning and just when 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.320 I when, if I ever think I know it, then 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:45.600 I'm screwed. Because to me, to be relevant, you have 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:50.199 to always be learning. Everything is, everything's always changing. The 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:55.000 language changes, you know, how we speak today. In two 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.240 thousand and sixteen, is not how we spoke in nineteen 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:05.240 three or nineties or two thousands career since well, actually, 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.480 my first song I ever had entered the charts was 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.480 Reba McIntyre song called I Can See Forever in Your 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:15.600 Eyes that I wrote by myself, and it was like 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:22.919 en eighty two or and yeah, it surprises me, but 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:28.800 you know, you you learn the language of music. In music, 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.120 there's only so many chords, especially in country music. It's 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:37.760 like primary colors as far as the harmony and the melodies. 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:40.480 You know, you get to other types of music and 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:47.360 there's pale blue, there's smoky, dusty roads, youngstound, I mean 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:52.000 youngstanding country music. They're very primary. But within those primary 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:56.639 colors are so many alternatives. And that's what keeps it 0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:02.200 fresh for me. And also love working with the new 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:08.879 kids in town. I love it. It's it informs my 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:13.719 mind and informs my brain and informs my musicianship, it 0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:19.320 informs my tech brain. You know, it's just Okay, that's 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.400 what these guys are thinking about, and okay, that's how 0:25:22.680 --> 0:25:26.040 that's how we're speaking now, and oh, this is a 0:25:26.119 --> 0:25:32.520 gear that's really working. You know. Although I still if 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:36.320 I followed everybody, I would wouldn't be here. You know, 0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:43.160 I follow myself. Yeah, I learned, you know, I write 0:25:43.200 --> 0:25:46.320 with Craig Wiseman, I'm learning, you know, if I write 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.480 with Fancy, I'm learning, you know, if I write with 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:54.560 someone of that stature, I'm learning what I'm right? How 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:57.199 amazing because a lot of people with your kind of success, 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:01.280 I feel like I'm the big wig. I'm the alpha 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:05.560 of this co write and as you are. And it 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:09.879 works for that for those people, and that's cool. But 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:16.000 I've always tried to offer writers who might look upon 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:23.280 me as the big kna a welcoming space. Look, we're 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.399 both staring at the same blank page here, you know, 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:33.199 we're both starting nowhere. Let's go somewhere together. So you 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.520 come in with just no ego, and I try not to. 0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:41.399 You know, if someone starts egoing out on me, and 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:45.520 it really rarely happens. I can be a big ego 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:49.320 to jerk if I need to be, I can, But 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:53.320 I don't like me as that, and I don't choose 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:57.040 to be that. Okay, so you got to Nashville because 0:26:57.080 --> 0:27:00.119 your car wouldn't make it to California. How long when 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.200 did you show up in Nashville? I started making trips. 0:27:03.720 --> 0:27:08.879 I started making trips to Nashville. Like two years before 0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:11.520 I moved to Nashville, I came down to visit my buddies. 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:14.639 Then I came down again, and I brought some songs 0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:18.440 with me, and I started just what everybody else who 0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:21.240 has ever made it or who's ever gotten the music 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:27.080 business does, knocked on doors. You knocked on doors literally 0:27:28.600 --> 0:27:33.280 embarrassed or scared I was going to be in the 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:39.920 music bus. You had no like nervousness about that. No, Honestly, 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:47.280 after after getting through music school, which I had no 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:51.520 business being in, and actually graduating, and being under that 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:55.640 much pressure and that much scrutiny, and after seeing all 0:27:55.680 --> 0:27:59.720 these great artists who went on to become icons, I 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:05.359 was isn't afraid. I was like, I want this, you 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.359 gotta go. I just I was thrilled just to be here. 0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.439 But I had to get somewhere. So, you know, nobody 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:17.760 sent for me. You know, people say, you know, Jed 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:20.800 Atkins didn't call me up and say, Bob, we really 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:24.760 need an Italian hillbilly down here. You know, I just 0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:26.879 I just showed up. And I was a rock and 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:32.239 roll guitar player, and I literally had zero knowledge of 0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:36.440 country music. You know, so many people say, oh, well, 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:38.720 look at all these guys today moving here from l 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:42.200 A and other pop guys. They're just track guys, and 0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:44.240 I wonder if they're gonna have a track guy hall 0:28:44.280 --> 0:28:47.720 of fame, you know. And they're just these young guys 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.040 and they think they know everything. Well, I was that 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:53.560 young guy who thought I knew everything, and I was 0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.240 I was a rock guy, and they needed some rock. 0:28:57.120 --> 0:29:00.480 They needed some life in country music, and I was 0:29:00.560 --> 0:29:05.400 the guy to bring it, you know. So so I 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.560 just I did. I would literally walk up and down 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.960 the street. Do you think you dazzle people with your confidence? 0:29:11.520 --> 0:29:13.120 Do you think they gave you a shot because you 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:17.480 were so confident? I don't know. I wasn't like get 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:19.920 a lot of this. You know. It's like, wow, am 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:21.840 I glad to be here? And man, I am I 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:24.280 glad you're talking to me? And here are some songs 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:28.520 I really like? And I was being honest. So how 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:31.240 did you get your first big break before the cut, 0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:33.240 first big number one? How did you get your break 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:38.440 into the country music industry? Well, I had moved here 0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:42.680 and I was making my living in Nashville, being a 0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:49.480 guitar teacher, teaching guitar two kids after school, you know, 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.400 and uh, you know, they show up, I want to 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:57.120 learn back in black, and I teach it back in 0:29:57.160 --> 0:30:00.400 black or I want to learn. So that's what I 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:03.720 was doing to make a living. But then I got 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:09.640 hold of a billboard magazine that said Combine Music looking 0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:15.600 to expand its pop arm and I went, oh, I'm pop. 0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:22.920 You know. So I was not affiliate with bm I, 0:30:24.040 --> 0:30:27.560 but I had met someone from bm I, Jerry Smith, 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.160 and so I called him up and I said, hey, Jerry, 0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:33.600 I'd really like to talk to somebody at Combine Music 0:30:34.200 --> 0:30:36.960 because it says right here in the magazine that they're 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.760 they're looking to expand their their industry bigger than country. 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:46.440 And so Jerry made an introduction to Al Cooley, who 0:30:46.600 --> 0:30:51.560 was the song plugger, the general manager at Combine Music, 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:55.600 home of Chris Christofferson at the time and Larry Gatlin 0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:59.360 and blah blah, Dolly part and blah blah blah. Very 0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:03.680 small independent company, was not a corporation, And so he 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:08.880 made me this this appointment, and I showed up with 0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:13.760 my tape and I gave it to Al Cooley and 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:17.320 I'm sitting there and he plays it and he goes, 0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:19.800 hold on hold of state right here, and he runs upstairs. 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:22.800 I don't know where he's going, comes back downstairs and 0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:25.080 he says, all right, come upstairs with me, and he 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:29.040 takes me upstairs and he takes me in this big office. 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:32.840 And there is this guy named Bob Beckham who was 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:39.680 the publisher, the main guy of this publishing and Combine music. 0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:44.200 And he kind of had his own language. You know. 0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:47.160 He was from Oklahoma. I never met anybody from Oklahoma 0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:50.120 from Ohio, you know. And he's, ah'm I shtaying the 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:53.480 sun fire are all I could all I could make 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:56.800 out that what he was saying was and and we're 0:31:56.840 --> 0:32:02.920 gonna make a lot of money. And he dismissed. He 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.080 heard it, and so he thought you had something. He 0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.080 thought I had something, And so did he sign you 0:32:07.240 --> 0:32:12.360 to publishing. He said, you're welcome to come here. You're 0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:15.000 welcome to come here. Any time you want to drink 0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:18.680 the coffee, hang out, You're welcome to come here. So 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.719 I was the quintessential hair and a biscuit man. I 0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:26.600 was there and I was hanging and I was drinking 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:32.440 the coffee, and yeah, I was you couldn't get me 0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:36.480 out of it, man, he said, you said, yes, sir, yeah, 0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:41.000 You're welcome to hang out. And and luckily at the 0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:44.920 time there were guys like me, guys who had come 0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:48.320 from different parts of the country who were trying to 0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.000 do a similar thing. They were trying to write. They 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.200 were trying to figure out my artist and my writer. 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:56.000 What am I? All I know is that I love music, 0:32:56.040 --> 0:32:59.920 and I met like minded guys. You know. I met 0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.160 Steve Earle there, who has just come to Texas, and 0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:06.520 he played me Devil's right hand right after he wrote it. 0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:10.400 And I'm like, oh, it's screwed I write that, you know, 0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:15.360 but it once again, it informed me about that's what 0:33:15.600 --> 0:33:19.440 is excellent. I know that I feel that you can 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.040 tell an excellent song because I feel like I've been 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.000 a song pucker and listening to hear what hits are. 0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:30.520 Sometimes I cannot tell what I Honestly, I can't tell 0:33:30.560 --> 0:33:33.720 all the time. When I wrote Blue Clear Sky, I 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:37.200 liked it, I didn't think, yeah, I didn't think it 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:40.240 would ever go to somebody like George Strait, and I 0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:44.000 never thought it would be be the title track of 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:47.360 the c M A album of the year. I liked it, 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:49.880 you know, and I remember pulling the faders. I'm going, wow, 0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:52.720 this is a good song. But it never occurred to 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:55.680 me this is the number one smash, you know, because 0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:59.240 I had other songs I thought were much better and 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:02.760 no one even responded to. But there were certain songs 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:07.600 that would just oh man, that is such a hit 0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:15.600 that it's once again, it's hard. It's hard for me 0:34:15.640 --> 0:34:22.520 to say. Uh. I thought Southern Voice that I wrote 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:29.239 with Tom Douglas was crazy good, not good. I thought 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:32.200 it was as good a song as I could humanly 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:36.120 right at that point. And I thought it said something 0:34:38.000 --> 0:34:42.000 that meant something but had been said differently in a 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.400 way that had not been said before. And I thought 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:51.160 that's really unique and different and I think it's excellent 0:34:51.200 --> 0:34:55.440 and I and then we can translate that into music. 0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:59.840 Row language was that's a hit, you know. So I 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:04.239 was pretty certain that was a hit song. Yeah, And 0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.840 and there have been others. I mean, I really loved 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:10.799 the song you mentioned really early in my career that 0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:14.319 rock Won't Roll. It was just like, oh man, this 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:17.040 is so cool. What a good idea. Yeah, it was 0:35:17.080 --> 0:35:22.759 a great idea, and it's a perfect example of Keith 0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:26.320 Digging because I wrote that with John Scott Cheryl and 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:31.719 we had written this song called that Rock Won't Roll. 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:39.080 The whole song finished done, and we went back and 0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:42.520 listen to it and said, man, there's nothing good about 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:47.799 this song except the title. So we just scrapped that 0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:52.080 whole song. And because once you built this little creature 0:35:52.160 --> 0:35:56.719 that is a song, well it is scary, but I 0:35:56.760 --> 0:36:01.600 think it's it's prageous. You have to know when to 0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:06.359 hold them. Yeah, there's a difference between stupidity and fearlessness. 0:36:06.440 --> 0:36:10.319 I don't know what we're that like, truly, truly, but 0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:12.680 I mean I think we both felt as such a 0:36:12.760 --> 0:36:17.040 cool idea that we just scrapped that whole song and 0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:21.279 started over, and thank god we did. Yeah, I think 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.520 we once again, I wrote a song about love but 0:36:25.760 --> 0:36:29.200 wrote it in a way that may not have exactly 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:32.880 been said like that before. And you you make me 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:36.000 think of something interesting. I feel like sometimes on music 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:39.040 Row people can get into the habit of just showing 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:41.960 up with their co write, working for four or five hours, 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:43.920 calling it a day, and just like, oh, that's okay, 0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:48.000 that's that's good, that's a fine song. But really, sometimes 0:36:48.000 --> 0:36:50.359 you do have to put in the extra effort and 0:36:50.400 --> 0:36:53.439 really like work harder because you can't get into an 0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.120 easy routine. I felt, not you a particular but songwriter. Yeah, 0:36:57.360 --> 0:36:59.520 And and there's a lot to be said for that. 0:36:59.640 --> 0:37:03.880 I mean, writers that hit that sweet spot in their career, 0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:08.200 it's like they can do no wrong. Everything they're writing 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:13.600 is getting recorded or getting listened to, and it's like, oh, yeah, okay, 0:37:14.040 --> 0:37:17.560 it's five o'clock, I'm leaving now and fully expecting the 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:20.680 song to be recorded or looked at, you know. And 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:25.759 that's a portion of a career right there. But I 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:30.280 know what you're saying, but I think some songs don't 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:35.439 need to be reworked or rewritten. They're just blue Curt 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:38.760 I mean, yeah, blue clear Sky. We never changed the word, 0:37:39.120 --> 0:37:43.399 never changed the note of melody. It was as it 0:37:43.480 --> 0:37:49.960 was written. Oh shoot, yeah, absolutely. I think I think 0:37:49.960 --> 0:37:56.960 in the creative process there's there's talent that's involved, and 0:37:57.000 --> 0:38:01.719 there's when you become you know. I always said that 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:07.799 a trained seal can write one number one song, but 0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:14.879 to write three, four, five and beyond, something's going on, 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:21.800 and I think that is talent. I think it's just perseverance, 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:26.319 you know. I think it's expecting a miracle, you know, 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:33.919 and luck is involved. Cannot say that that's not part 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:36.560 of it, or some people might call it my better 0:38:36.600 --> 0:38:42.279 angels or it's my luck. But something helps. Do you 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:43.960 feel like you have to be open to receiving that 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:49.520 extra help? Oh? Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah, 0:38:49.640 --> 0:38:52.480 I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a very I'm a 0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:57.759 spiritual person of a problem with organized religion, but I 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:02.440 feel it. I believe, and songs are magical. Yeah, and 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:06.040 it really I think Keith Richards in his book really 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:08.880 described at least to me, it made sense where he 0:39:08.920 --> 0:39:13.960 said that he feels like an antenna and he's just 0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:18.400 got it up there and he's just waiting to receive 0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:21.799 and it's like a radio and sometimes you can't get 0:39:21.840 --> 0:39:24.400 the station, and sometimes you can hear parts of it, 0:39:24.480 --> 0:39:28.719 and sometimes it's loud and clear, you know, and just 0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:32.839 I just try to be open, you know. Oh, it's 0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:36.319 a great book on for creative people too. I mean, 0:39:36.360 --> 0:39:40.239 it's his version. There's no one way, there is no 0:39:40.280 --> 0:39:43.160 one that is the truth. And actually, like talking to 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:45.680 people like I've gotten to do with the podcast, you 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:48.960 hear their stories and it's all over all over the map, 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:52.319 and that's good. It is because there is no one way. 0:39:52.840 --> 0:39:55.560 Perseverance I think. Yeah, I think somebody said, you know, 0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:59.000 if you want to get to California, you can walk 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.120 and take a bus, you take a jet, you take 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:06.840 a private jet. You could back, you could you could drive, 0:40:07.600 --> 0:40:10.200 and you'll get there. But there are just so many 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.160 different ways to get there as long as you get 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:16.120 to California. About your car breaking down in Nashville, I mean, 0:40:16.160 --> 0:40:20.280 you got that's your next infiration, Bob. I just like, Okay, 0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:22.080 so you're the hair in the biscuit. That's where we stopped. 0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:24.839 I kind of your hair in a biscuits. So I'm 0:40:24.880 --> 0:40:30.120 hanging out this and I'm I'm running into guys like me. 0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:33.600 But when you're much younger and hadn't started, Yeah, you know, 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:38.360 twentysomething guys that come from all different parts of the country. 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:42.359 And it's the first time I really met guys from 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:46.120 the South. Like, I'm from Mississippi, I'm from Atlanta, I'm 0:40:46.160 --> 0:40:51.400 from I'm from Oklahoma, I'm from Texas. I'm from Florida. Well, 0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:56.880 I thought Florida was Miami Beach. No, Florida is deep country, 0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:01.880 you know. And but they all had the same passion 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:05.879 I had, and so it was easy to connect with 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:09.640 them and we both we all wanted to write something, 0:41:10.680 --> 0:41:13.520 whether it was for our solo projects or we wanted 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:17.120 to have songs to be recorded by the artists of 0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:20.560 the day. And so I fell in with these people 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:24.840 and started writing with them, and I guess I turned 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:28.439 in and those songs that finally this Bob Beckham said, 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:30.880 I want to sign you to a deal, son, And 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:33.080 I love that you're turning in songs that you don't 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.759 even have a publishing deal. Oh no, that your heart, 0:41:37.040 --> 0:41:39.120 the eager heart. You wanted it. Well. I wanted to 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:42.200 show them. I wanted to show them how serious I 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:46.920 was and and that I'm going to do this and 0:41:47.040 --> 0:41:49.680 if you're with me, cool, and if you're not with me, 0:41:49.719 --> 0:41:52.840 I'm gonna do it somewhere else. But it was in 0:41:52.920 --> 0:41:54.799 my heart to write these songs, you know. And so 0:41:54.880 --> 0:41:57.879 finally said I'm gonna give you a deal, son. Yeah, 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:00.959 I'm gonna give you a seventy five dollars a week 0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:05.839 every week. I'm like to me, it was because someone 0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:10.799 was actually gonna pay me to write songs. That's a yeah. 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.360 I'm this guy from Young side Ohio. It was getting paid, 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:16.839 you know, five dollars a night and all the beer 0:42:16.880 --> 0:42:20.600 I could drink in a bar band playing brown Sugar 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:23.719 or whatever, the songs of the day word, you know, 0:42:23.840 --> 0:42:28.759 and this guy's paying me to write songs. So it 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.920 was huge. And and and that's what I That's what 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:36.000 I did. And I told you I was teaching guitar 0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.960 when I first moved to Nashville. So I would show 0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:45.160 up there on o'clock and I just hang out and 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:49.880 and then i'd start making writer appointments and i'd write 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:54.480 with my writer friends until about three o'clock. And then 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:57.359 i'd have to go all the way up to Rivergate Mall, 0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:01.320 which is where I taught guitar in this real little 0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:04.920 music store, and I would teach guitar to all the 0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:08.800 kids from like three thirty two whenever they stopped coming, 0:43:09.560 --> 0:43:13.319 you know. And then I'd come home and I right 0:43:13.400 --> 0:43:16.600 by Combine to see if anybody was there, and if 0:43:16.640 --> 0:43:19.239 they were there, I was there, you know, And I 0:43:19.360 --> 0:43:22.600 just I just did that. But you have such an 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:28.320 infectious personality to that that must have really shown how 0:43:28.360 --> 0:43:30.359 badly you wanted this. You know, he's got to love 0:43:30.400 --> 0:43:35.960 your perseverance. Well, I'm you know, Bob Beckham was an 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:40.480 old school publisher, but a publisher nonetheless, just like I 0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:44.680 don't know Detroit Thomlinson is today a great publisher in 0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:49.160 our town right now? Or Mark Brown? You know, Uh, 0:43:49.880 --> 0:43:56.920 they recognize, they recognized talent and drive. They recognized the package. 0:43:57.239 --> 0:44:01.080 Talent is no good about d They recognize it's the package. 0:44:01.560 --> 0:44:05.839 He's got, the talent, he's got the drive. Doesn't look 0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:08.120 like he's taken over Nancy. And I think he's got 0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:14.280 delusions of great You know, when I first moved to town, 0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:18.400 I always felt like, how will people know that I 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:21.160 want to be here? You know? And I do agree 0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:22.960 with what you're saying. Now that I've been here for 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:27.000 almost twelve years, you can tell when someone wants it. 0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:29.640 It's not it's not it's not a regular thing. Not 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:34.240 everyone has the drive. I think that's a key ingredient. Yeah, 0:44:34.400 --> 0:44:38.280 I think it is too. And I think it's it's 0:44:39.080 --> 0:44:44.200 how you present yourself, you know. I mean, I think 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.560 I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I never showed 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:51.480 up with the attitude. Is I'm really hot shot? Elect 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:55.000 a guitar player? Get ready for this? You know or 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:58.040 someone I mean and honestly I'm not this is what 0:44:58.120 --> 0:45:03.000 I think, or someone like you. You're very beautiful woman, 0:45:03.600 --> 0:45:07.279 but you do not lead with that. You don't lead 0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.359 with it, whereas a lot of women lead with that, 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:15.240 they lead with the sexual that last five seconds last. Yeah, 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:19.239 but you lead with your heart. I feel, you know, 0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:21.920 and I think that's why you're here and where you 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:24.799 are right now, you know, and and all the other 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.240 stuff kition whenever you not just all this extra stuff 0:45:28.280 --> 0:45:30.440 you got to use, you know. But I think you 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:33.080 lead with your heart, and I think I lead with 0:45:33.120 --> 0:45:35.120 my art, and you can, and you can get hurt, 0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:39.040 you can, But why why why not put yourself out 0:45:39.080 --> 0:45:43.000 there so you can also get grandiose, grandiose life visions 0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:47.080 of grandiose. Yeah, that's that. And yeah, so I just 0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:49.319 kept working so you got the publishing. How did it 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:52.120 feel when you got inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame? 0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:54.719 Starting from this whole journey. Now you've had your all, 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:56.680 your number ones, all your success, and now you're getting 0:45:56.680 --> 0:46:00.200 inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. I mean, 0:46:00.239 --> 0:46:08.640 are you like freaking out? Yes? It really was like otherworldly. 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:12.239 It was like a dream. It's like you dream of 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:14.719 since you were a kid. Yeah, it's like I'm watching 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:18.919 it happen from somewhere up here or something. Wow. Look 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:23.120 there's Bob and they're walking up and people are standing 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:27.560 up and clapping. And I wasn't necessarily in the moment 0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:30.279 of Okay, I'm feeling this, I'm seeing this. It's just 0:46:30.360 --> 0:46:34.719 like it was almost an out of body experience, you know. 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:38.880 And to see my peers and to see people like 0:46:39.440 --> 0:46:43.880 whoever was in the audience, Vince gil Garth Brooks acknowledging 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:47.960 my work and a lot of them have both of 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:54.000 them have both of those guys, and and so it 0:46:54.520 --> 0:47:01.279 felt they felt otherworldly. But I didn't feel like I 0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:04.680 shouldn't be there. You felt like you deserved it. I 0:47:04.719 --> 0:47:10.160 had worked, I know, the the time I put in there, 0:47:10.239 --> 0:47:13.240 and I I always tried to do my best work, 0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:17.919 and they were honoring me for my best work. What's 0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:21.680 your motto a song writing? What's my motto? Yeah? Like 0:47:21.760 --> 0:47:23.799 what you're like, go to what gets you up to 0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:26.840 do it? Every day? Get up and put your pants on? 0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:33.400 Show up, show up? Show up? Does somebody wants to 0:47:33.400 --> 0:47:37.280 know the secret? That's the secret? Show up? Are you, okay, 0:47:37.280 --> 0:47:38.600 if you have a day where you write a song 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:40.120 that you don't feel like it's great or does that 0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:43.600 bump you out? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm a 0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:48.279 competitive creature, just like praying, but everybody else on music grow. 0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:51.880 I want to write a great song. But as time 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:55.600 has gone on, I've learned to accept that. I mean, 0:47:55.640 --> 0:48:01.600 it's like an athlete. Athletes don't have old metal performances 0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:05.640 every day, you know. Football players don't kill it. Cam 0:48:05.760 --> 0:48:09.160 Newton kind of sucked in Super Bowl, you know, but 0:48:09.280 --> 0:48:11.359 I'm sure he's gonna show up and play again and 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:15.480 make great plays. But it's just part of the deal, 0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:22.960 you know. I hate it when that happens, but I mean, yeah, 0:48:23.160 --> 0:48:26.840 just show up and just do that be. I really 0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:31.120 have never felt that I've competed with. I want to 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:36.400 be just like whoever Rodney Clawson. I want to be 0:48:36.520 --> 0:48:41.040 just like Mark Sanders. You know. I've always tried to 0:48:41.120 --> 0:48:46.080 just be the best Bob Depiro and mostly I compete 0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:52.680 with myself. Yeah, and while being aware of what's around me. 0:48:52.880 --> 0:48:56.399 And I think songwriters are like reporters, you know, we're 0:48:56.480 --> 0:48:59.919 just reporting on on what we've seen and what we've 0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:02.799 you and what we hear and what we think. You know, 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:08.040 we're this is the daily news. Okay. So in the 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:11.080 middle of all this, you had there was a moment 0:49:11.120 --> 0:49:15.600 where you were the songwriter of the Year multiple times. 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:17.759 What songs were a songwriter of the Year for which 0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:20.080 is a huge procetious honor for Nashville to be honored 0:49:20.080 --> 0:49:26.280 by the entire community of songwriters, all of like the artists, 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:30.000 it's the whole the whole town. And you were the 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.560 songwriter of the Year. I can't be honest, I can't 0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:36.239 even tell you what those songs were. I knew. I 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:38.440 know during that period of time there were songs like 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:41.919 Blue Clear Sky and Daddy's Money and World's a Park 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.920 I had written with Vince. And you also got the 0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:48.719 Triple Play Award for a couple of times during this 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:53.759 which is where you have three number ones within one year, 0:49:53.800 --> 0:49:55.600 And I think, did you have a double triple play? 0:49:55.880 --> 0:49:59.680 I had two, had earned to Triple Play awards. So 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:03.520 in two separate years, you've had three number one. That's 0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:06.239 a big freaking deal. It was a big freaking deal 0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:13.000 for me, for anyone. Yeah, I mean yeah, And you 0:50:13.040 --> 0:50:17.800 know these days guys are getting multiple number multiple triple 0:50:17.880 --> 0:50:21.960 plays a lot. But I think that's a that's the 0:50:22.040 --> 0:50:26.080 result of the fact that our whole life is sped up. 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:30.759 You know that that our whole media wheel, our whole 0:50:30.920 --> 0:50:34.440 radio wheel has just sped up, and they're just spitting 0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:39.479 them out as soon as they get to number one, next, next, next, next, next, 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:42.399 and the guys that are in the golden circle, or 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:45.440 it's time for me to get them, you know. But 0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:48.160 I was, I mean I never I never had it 0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:50.680 in my mind that I was gonna get three number 0:50:50.719 --> 0:50:53.640 one records in a year, or do it twice. I mean, 0:50:53.680 --> 0:50:56.480 that's insane. Okay, So I'm looking at Cleopatrick Lean Denial. 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:59.359 I love that song from Pam tell us you guys 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:02.719 were married from we were married for it was seven years. 0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:05.680 Were did you just write songs all the time when 0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.680 we were around? I mean, when we were in songwriting mode. 0:51:09.520 --> 0:51:14.440 Was that harving marriage an artist who's traveling all the time. Well, 0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:21.560 I can only speak to my experience, and my experience 0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:27.480 was that when Pam's career as an artist started, I mean, 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:30.960 she had really been at it trying to become an artist, 0:51:31.000 --> 0:51:33.439 and she got out to l A for a rock 0:51:33.640 --> 0:51:37.920 pop Madonna type deal at the time that didn't work, 0:51:38.000 --> 0:51:40.280 and so she had been at it. She'd been knocking 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:43.400 at it. But when but when she started dating, she 0:51:43.600 --> 0:51:48.400 was not quote unquote famous. She was mel Tillius's daughter. 0:51:48.640 --> 0:51:52.840 That's that was the extent of her fame. And I 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:57.480 was already in my role as a songwriter of note, 0:51:57.680 --> 0:52:02.040 you know. But Pam has always been a great songwriter, 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:07.560 you know. So as soon as we got married. The 0:52:07.640 --> 0:52:13.319 day we got married, her first single, Uh, Don't tell 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:16.680 Me what to Do went number one. Yeah, I mean 0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:22.759 too wish I had written it. And and immediately we 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:26.120 she was shot out of a kid. She's on a 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:31.680 rocket and she's starting out. So her hubby, Bobby is 0:52:32.320 --> 0:52:37.560 playing in the band. I played guitar in the band. 0:52:38.360 --> 0:52:41.840 We travel on the road. Melt Tillis for his wedding, 0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.239 President Us gave us, gave us one of his old 0:52:44.239 --> 0:52:52.040 tour bus, and it's a it was a old tour 0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:54.120 of us and its still had bus seats in it, 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:57.040 you know. But we have a bus, you know. So 0:52:57.080 --> 0:52:59.760 we just took off and and all of a sudden 0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:01.680 we were on the road more than we were home. 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:08.480 It was fun until it wasn't fun, you know. Yeah, 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:12.320 I mean there was a time when we were really 0:53:12.960 --> 0:53:17.040 killing it as a couple, but there was always this 0:53:17.480 --> 0:53:20.680 competition thing going on that I was always I'm not 0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:25.799 saying anything bad, but I was always like, hey, we're 0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:28.319 a team. Isn't it a great gay for us? You know? 0:53:28.400 --> 0:53:31.920 And the h and we were killing it, you know. 0:53:31.960 --> 0:53:34.640 I think at one time two of us had half 0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:39.920 of the top ten with her stuff with my stuff, 0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:45.479 with our stuff together. Uh and uh, like I said, 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:47.560 it was a lot of fun until it wasn't fun anymore. 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:53.400 And and just what happens, you know, there's it's not 0:53:53.480 --> 0:53:57.840 a cliche that people break up that are in show business. 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:04.400 I mean there's sometimes there's it's just impossible situations you 0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:06.680 find yourself in. Why is that that so many people 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:08.960 break up and show business? But I think that's just 0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:12.320 the same because people just break up in general. People 0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:14.600 do break up in general. And I think you're right, 0:54:14.719 --> 0:54:19.040 and I think it's just because they're famous and people 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:25.320 love to follow people who work not even famous, but celebrities, 0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:29.439 and they get invited in their relationship like the Kardashians 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:32.839 and celebrities. You know, they they don't do anything but 0:54:32.880 --> 0:54:35.920 they're they're celebrities people though they are, you know, and 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:43.000 I think that kind of spotlight on you personally in 0:54:43.040 --> 0:54:47.480 your life. I mean, being married is hard enough without 0:54:47.640 --> 0:54:52.160 somebody looking through your windows while you're being married, truly, 0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:56.200 you know, and that at least this is my experience. 0:54:56.239 --> 0:55:01.920 I'm not Dr Phil or anything, just my experience that 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:07.080 added to the insanity and the success we were having 0:55:07.560 --> 0:55:13.680 was just just beyond beyond, you know, and all that 0:55:14.000 --> 0:55:18.080 rolled into one and all the all the little devils 0:55:18.160 --> 0:55:23.440 that come out from that, you know, envy and oh 0:55:23.520 --> 0:55:26.440 look at that pretty women, look at that pretty guy, 0:55:26.760 --> 0:55:30.319 all that stuff. Yeah, when you're on top, everyone wants 0:55:30.680 --> 0:55:34.319 everyone watch every and everybody is in your ear, and 0:55:34.360 --> 0:55:40.280 all of a sudden, sometimes the voices start screaming. I guess, well, 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:43.600 sometimes you start listening to them more than you listen 0:55:43.680 --> 0:55:48.920 to your wife, or you start listening to your husband. 0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:53.879 You're listening outside of the marriage, and you're putting more 0:55:54.000 --> 0:56:00.319 weight on those voices rather than your own voices as 0:56:00.360 --> 0:56:02.920 a couple. In a married couple, you know, well, I 0:56:02.960 --> 0:56:05.040 guess it's easy to get lost in that big fog 0:56:05.239 --> 0:56:10.279 because so many people are involved with you as a 0:56:10.320 --> 0:56:14.439 brand and a product, and yeah, you're invested in your life. Yeah, 0:56:14.520 --> 0:56:19.239 and it's it's such a it's it's it throws you off. 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:24.600 It threw me off balance, you know, because all these 0:56:24.640 --> 0:56:27.320 people are invested in your life and all of a sudden, 0:56:28.120 --> 0:56:37.239 it's just overwhelming, you know. And you know, drugs and 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:42.319 alcohol didn't help. So was that happening? Oh yeah. Do 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:45.520 you think there's a way to be moderate or is it? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, 0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:48.239 it's hard to be moderate sometimes because it's don't you 0:56:48.280 --> 0:56:51.160 feel like, in a way in this industry it's okay 0:56:51.200 --> 0:56:53.839 to like And I'm not talking about Pam, I'm talking 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:56.480 about me, right, right, right. Don't you think it's sort 0:56:56.520 --> 0:56:58.959 of like okay to drink every day? And well that's 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.120 the deal. I mean, that's you are right, you know. 0:57:04.200 --> 0:57:09.720 You know in corporate America you have to take piss 0:57:09.760 --> 0:57:12.640 tests and and they check you to see if you're high. 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:16.200 And here it's almost like you gotta mark against you 0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:19.800 if you don't drink. You know. I remember going to 0:57:19.880 --> 0:57:25.680 my later later publisher and telling her, listen, I've got it. 0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:28.040 I've got to check out. I'm I've got to go 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:30.760 to rehab. I'm really in trouble and I'm gonna go 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:33.760 to rehab to deal with this. And and she was 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:36.320 like on the phone and hang her phone up, putting 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:42.480 her leash on her dog, and she goes, oh, that's great. Uh. Tommy, 0:57:42.760 --> 0:57:44.960 someone who's the head of a record label in New York, 0:57:45.240 --> 0:57:46.720 he just went to one and he said he had 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:49.320 a great time. I'll see when you get back. And 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:55.360 she just walk out and tell her I'm I'm spiraling 0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:58.919 out to get and she goes, okay, bye. Or I've 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:02.320 heard people say I love to sign a writer if 0:58:02.320 --> 0:58:06.120 they're going through a divorce because the inspiration is the 0:58:06.200 --> 0:58:10.640 chance the pain. So yeah, and I haven't you had 0:58:10.680 --> 0:58:15.400 another old publisher just had this this slogan of pain 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:19.880 and beauty. It's pain and beauty. Be upset? Yeah? Yeah 0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:24.760 are you? Are you really upset? Book yourself today? Yeah. 0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:28.880 So anyway, I'm not blaming anybody but me, you know, 0:58:29.000 --> 0:58:32.680 but that's that's involved. So, so you decided to cut 0:58:32.760 --> 0:58:34.520 drugs and anocohol out of your life at some point, 0:58:34.680 --> 0:58:37.920 that's right. When did you decide? When did you decide 0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:42.840 it was time to like xanay that when I felt 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:47.560 that I was dying. Yeah, I had gotten that bad. 0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:50.680 It's not like I woke up from a hangover one 0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:53.960 day and said, I don't want to feel like this anymore. No, 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:58.680 it was bad. It was bad, bad. You know, all 0:58:58.720 --> 0:59:02.960 of the major food groups. I loved them all, Like marijuana. 0:59:03.040 --> 0:59:06.280 I was awakened, bake kind of guy. Did that help 0:59:06.280 --> 0:59:13.840 you write songs? No? I thought I did. And and 0:59:13.920 --> 0:59:19.880 to me, cocaine was this was this exotic, taboo drug. 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:23.080 But that Dwayne Almand did a lot of cocaine, and 0:59:23.120 --> 0:59:26.880 I loved Dwayne Almand, Keith Richards feel a lot of cocaine, 0:59:26.920 --> 0:59:29.600 and so I want to be like them. So I 0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:31.760 guess I'm gonna do cocaine, you know. And I did it, 0:59:31.720 --> 0:59:35.760 and I liked it and everything else that was there, 0:59:35.920 --> 0:59:42.080 and of course alcohol was always there. And so at 0:59:42.080 --> 0:59:47.000 the end of my marriage to Pam Uh, as soon 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:50.640 as we got divorced, all of a sudden, I was 0:59:50.840 --> 0:59:54.720 partners in an independent publishing company called Little Big Town, 0:59:55.200 --> 0:59:57.680 which is where a Little Big Town got their name 0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:01.240 from our publishing company because it came and asked us, well, 1:00:01.280 --> 1:00:03.440 you're not using your name and where can we use it? 1:00:04.120 --> 1:00:10.520 Which I came up was I came on, and so 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:15.120 we had sold this company to Sony a TV, like 1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:19.720 so many corporations gobble up companies. And I just got 1:00:19.880 --> 1:00:24.200 dumped on this gigantic mountain of money. And I'd just 1:00:24.320 --> 1:00:28.840 gone through a divorce, and I was nuts, and I 1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:32.680 had nobody to be accountable to. I was living here, 1:00:32.760 --> 1:00:37.120 my family was in Ohio, and I just went down 1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:42.160 the rabbit hole and I, you know, I had a 1:00:42.160 --> 1:00:45.040 housekeeper tell me that. You know, I was always afraid 1:00:45.040 --> 1:00:46.800 I was going to come to clean your house and 1:00:46.840 --> 1:00:51.320 find you in your bed dead. Yes, and and so 1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:57.040 thank god I recognized that. And and so I didn't 1:00:57.040 --> 1:01:00.560 know what to do about it. And so I called 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:07.320 my old friend Steve Earle full Circle, who I knew 1:01:07.360 --> 1:01:13.000 it had gone through this and more. But I called 1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:15.720 him up and I said, Steve, Man, I'm I think 1:01:15.720 --> 1:01:18.400 I'm in really deep trouble. I think I said something 1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:22.000 funny like I'm surrounded by the Prudian Army or something 1:01:22.040 --> 1:01:24.320 like that. You know, I can always make fun of anything. 1:01:25.440 --> 1:01:27.000 And I said, but I don't know what to do. 1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:31.600 And he said, well, man, I wasn't just you go 1:01:31.680 --> 1:01:35.440 to rehab. And there's this place in Minnesota called a 1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:38.880 Handley Hazelton and that's a great place. And I went there, 1:01:39.840 --> 1:01:43.160 but still in my brain at the time, I was going, 1:01:43.200 --> 1:01:47.680 I'm not calling to Minnesota in February hitting me. So 1:01:47.720 --> 1:01:50.520 I started looking around, you know what. I found a 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:54.520 branch of Amiston in West Palm Beach, Florida. So I 1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:56.960 think I'll go there. You know, I had nothing to 1:01:57.000 --> 1:02:01.720 do and help. I'm in trouble. But where's yeah, I mean, 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:03.600 where's the sun? I want to go there. You know. 1:02:03.600 --> 1:02:07.920 If I would have known about Eric Clapton's rehab place 1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:12.080 in the Caribbean Islands, I would have gone there, you know, 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:15.600 But I didn't. I showed up there and and did 1:02:15.600 --> 1:02:17.240 you get it right the first time? I got it 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:20.040 right the first time. I have no idea why. Well, 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:22.360 I think they isn't it part of the saying that 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:25.439 you have to want it yourself? Yeah? I think they 1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:30.160 say you have to be willing. Is only the dying 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:34.440 can be to want it, you know. And I was willing, 1:02:35.120 --> 1:02:40.320 and I was willing to do anything. Are you just 1:02:40.360 --> 1:02:43.800 so ready? I was just so ready? I was. I 1:02:43.840 --> 1:02:49.440 had scared myself sober, and I knew I couldn't do 1:02:49.480 --> 1:02:51.600 it myself. And so I went there and I was 1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:54.880 still an asshole. When I first got there, a bunch 1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:57.920 of bullshit Psycho Babbo. I think this is a cult. 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.760 It sucks, you know. And then one day while I 1:03:02.840 --> 1:03:06.720 was there, I just woke up and I was like, wow, 1:03:06.800 --> 1:03:08.680 I think this can help me, you know. And I 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:11.120 just and I have no idea why I've been sober 1:03:11.200 --> 1:03:13.600 this long? How many years have you been sober? A 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:20.000 couple of weeks ago was fourteen years. Knowing that I 1:03:20.040 --> 1:03:26.480 could leave this interview and go jump off, that's the thing. 1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:30.560 It's a daily every day. Some days it's so easy, 1:03:30.640 --> 1:03:33.560 I never think about it. And some days it's not 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:36.640 so easy. But that's part of the deal. But I 1:03:36.720 --> 1:03:42.840 know this. I know that had I continued on h 1:03:43.400 --> 1:03:48.520 I would have probably died and I would never have 1:03:48.680 --> 1:03:51.760 met Leslie. Who's your wife? Now? Who's my wife? Now? 1:03:51.760 --> 1:03:56.000 It's probably my first sober relationship, it's probably since high school. 1:03:56.240 --> 1:04:00.720 And she's like beyond, I don't deserve her, you know, 1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:04.360 But I was. I was clear headed, and I was sober. 1:04:04.400 --> 1:04:06.440 I'd been sober for a couple of years before I 1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:10.600 had ever met her. And that's when I found that. 1:04:12.280 --> 1:04:15.720 I always thought that I wrote all these songs because 1:04:15.760 --> 1:04:18.760 I did drugs. But what I came to find out 1:04:18.880 --> 1:04:21.640 was I wrote all these songs in spite of doing 1:04:21.680 --> 1:04:24.680 all these drugs, because after I got clean and sober, 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:28.880 I went on having kept having hits, kept having the 1:04:29.360 --> 1:04:32.360 you know if you ever stopped loving me? And and 1:04:32.880 --> 1:04:36.840 Southern voice and on and on and on. So it's 1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:39.680 got a huge moment of like relief in a way, 1:04:39.720 --> 1:04:45.840 and then also like freedom. It's it's a feeling of 1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:52.440 awakening and knowing something I didn't know. You didn't have 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:57.080 to depend on anything anymore. Yeah, and just I had 1:04:57.080 --> 1:05:00.240 this all wrong? Really, what did you have wrong? I 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:03.280 thought that if I got high that it was cool 1:05:03.440 --> 1:05:06.880 and and it helped me be here. And all my 1:05:06.960 --> 1:05:10.600 friends drink until they fall over, and I want to 1:05:10.640 --> 1:05:12.680 hang out with them, and so I'm going to drink 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:15.960 until I fall over. Well, some of my friends can 1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:18.320 do that and then go home and they're over it. 1:05:18.400 --> 1:05:24.680 But me, I keep going, you know. So I figured 1:05:24.680 --> 1:05:30.560 that out about myself and uh to do something about it. Yeah, 1:05:30.600 --> 1:05:33.160 but I'm not strong enough that I can pull this 1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:36.400 off myself, you know. So I do all to do. 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:41.000 I go to the meetings, and thankfully my wife has 1:05:41.040 --> 1:05:45.080 been a great help. You know, she gets it. She said, 1:05:45.120 --> 1:05:49.280 what I call a civilian she doesn't have this is 1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:55.480 um and uh, you know, and most of my friends 1:05:57.520 --> 1:06:01.320 get it. They all get it, and I'm don't and 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:04.360 I'm not that good of friends with them anymore. Yeah, 1:06:06.400 --> 1:06:10.240 that's amazing. I mean, that's almost probably it's big of 1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:14.040 accomplishment as these songs on your wall. It is to 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:18.800 me knowing what I know now. I mean, I get this, 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:24.240 I get this. I know it's amazing. Literally has like 1:06:24.280 --> 1:06:27.280 fifty number one time. I really I get this, and 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:30.200 I'm now able to take in or before I didn't 1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:32.120 know what I was taking it. You're just in it. 1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:36.440 I was just high. I was high and I was 1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:39.880 in it, you know. So here we are, sixteen and 1:06:39.920 --> 1:06:42.360 I just got done writing a really good song today 1:06:42.520 --> 1:06:44.760 called dirty Love. Okay, so we gotta wrap up, even 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:46.360 though it's been an hour. I want to talk to 1:06:46.360 --> 1:06:48.640 you forever because you probably are one of the most 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:52.720 interesting humans on earth. Your story is so colorful. Yes, 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:55.880 I'm a colorful guy. You are a colorful guy. Look 1:06:55.920 --> 1:07:02.640 at my phone. It's colorful. So I like to end 1:07:02.840 --> 1:07:06.960 all of my interviews with something I call leave your Light. 1:07:07.800 --> 1:07:11.439 So leave me some inspiration, like inspire us with something 1:07:11.480 --> 1:07:14.120 that means something to you or has inspired you, or 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:19.919 that you want to inspire on others. I think if 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:26.640 you want a life in the creative arts, especially in 1:07:26.680 --> 1:07:31.320 the entertainment business, whether you're a songwriter or or an entertainer, 1:07:32.320 --> 1:07:36.040 always have the heart of a student. Be willing to learn, 1:07:37.040 --> 1:07:40.560 be willing to try stuff that you've never tried, you know, 1:07:40.680 --> 1:07:43.920 be open to it. And have fun while you're doing it, 1:07:43.920 --> 1:07:45.960 because sometimes that fun is all you're going to get 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:49.160 out of it. So have you know, have a good 1:07:49.160 --> 1:07:52.720 time while you're doing this. Have fun. I love that, 1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:55.640 even if funds all that it is, yeah, because there's 1:07:55.640 --> 1:07:58.200 a lot of times, you know, write a great song, man, 1:07:58.240 --> 1:08:01.000 we had a great time and nothing ever comes to 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:03.240 the song, but we had a good time while we're 1:08:03.280 --> 1:08:06.480 doing it, you know. But go after what you want, 1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:09.160 go after your dreams. Don't be afraid to ask for 1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:12.040 what you want, and be the hair and somebody's biscuit. 1:08:12.200 --> 1:08:15.520 Be the hair and somebody's biscuit. Just show up. And 1:08:15.640 --> 1:08:19.200 I will say that there's a fine line between stalking 1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:24.360 and networking, and you need to find out where your 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:29.320 line is. That line between being a pest and pestering 1:08:30.040 --> 1:08:34.240 and networking, or how to speak to somebody or how 1:08:34.280 --> 1:08:37.559 to show up just enough or at the right time. 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:41.479 That is an art. It's it's very much part of 1:08:42.800 --> 1:08:47.960 being in the music business and you can figure it out, 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:50.800 but you have to know who you are, so if 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:57.719 you don't find out. Thank you so much for interview. 1:08:58.040 --> 1:09:02.960 Thank you, Caroline. I enjoyed every month. Carol Love. She's 1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:19.440 a queen of talking. No one can Carol Love. Carola. 1:09:21.720 --> 1:09:24.439 Thank you all so much for tuning into hyper Caroline Hobby, 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:26.720 I hope you loved hearing from Bob to Piro. He 1:09:26.840 --> 1:09:28.640 is one of my favorite humans on Earth, and I 1:09:28.800 --> 1:09:31.560 just loved having him as a guest. Next week, I 1:09:31.680 --> 1:09:35.400 am freaking thrilled because I have the o G, the original, 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.960 the one and only Cody Allen. He host on CMT 1:09:39.160 --> 1:09:41.600 and I have loved him and looked up to him forever, 1:09:42.479 --> 1:09:44.920 and he gives me lessons on how to host and 1:09:45.000 --> 1:09:47.320 it's so fun. And then we hear his whole story 1:09:47.400 --> 1:09:49.360 on how he got into hosting and how he became 1:09:49.880 --> 1:09:52.519 the household name that he is in the CMT sensation, 1:09:52.600 --> 1:09:55.479 So y'all get excited for Cody Allen and please tune 1:09:55.520 --> 1:09:59.679 in every week and subscribe on iTunes and leave some comments. 1:10:00.080 --> 1:10:01.679 Thank you guys so much, See you next week. Bye 1:10:11.280 --> 1:10:11.760 mm hmm