Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production
Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,
Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the
Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f
Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.
Speaker 1: Remember that in Deliverance when I got come around the
Speaker 1: corner and there he said, who's picking a banger here?
Speaker 1: No story, You've never seen the movie in my life.
Speaker 1: I have not seen Deliverance either. I was not allowed
Speaker 1: to victorious scenes in that movie that I'd want to
Speaker 1: hear about it. Yeah, did you ever see that movie? Down?
Speaker 1: When did that come out? Reynolds Probably seventies, Slate seventies,
Speaker 1: wasn't it. I think it probably? Yes, MT seventy one.
Speaker 1: It was early s early Okay, yeah, I would say
Speaker 1: it was pretty early. I don't know what. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is a this is an interesting topic of conversation we're
Speaker 1: gonna have today. Yeah it is. Yeah, listen, I want
Speaker 1: so what we do on the Bargeras Render. If you're
Speaker 1: not familiar, if you've just this is your first podcast,
Speaker 1: we have. There are two styles of podcasts under the
Speaker 1: Bargrease banner. So we have our what we just call
Speaker 1: straight up barg Rease, which is our documentary style podcast,
Speaker 1: which is gonna be multiple interviews telling the story, doctored
Speaker 1: up music, soundscapes, really polished and produced. That's that. Then
Speaker 1: we have the Bargrease Render, which is a group of
Speaker 1: us are five of us here right now that are
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the previous week's podcast, dissect it, talk
Speaker 1: about high points, low points, and so that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1: So that's what this is. I want to start off
Speaker 1: with you. Did you know that before Brent got here
Speaker 1: or when he When he got here, we kind of
Speaker 1: started talking a little bit and he said, you know, Clay,
Speaker 1: I kind of d about the podcast and I said,
Speaker 1: who whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, save that energy for
Speaker 1: the Render. I'm a whirlwind of emotion right now, really
Speaker 1: to the podcast. Good. So what I want to say
Speaker 1: is I want you to be absolutely free to say
Speaker 1: whatever you think because nobody's gonna judge me. No, this
Speaker 1: is ah, this is a safe place. Okay, good nobody else.
Speaker 1: But no, it's not like the other podcast where we
Speaker 1: were really limited, right, listen, this is what happens inside
Speaker 1: of social structures. Okay, so this is a social structure.
Speaker 1: You guys obviously are my friends. Want of you is
Speaker 1: my wife? Want of you is my father? Prince not
Speaker 1: related to me? Isn't needed? But you you kind of
Speaker 1: build a bias of positivity towards something, or you want
Speaker 1: to spend something so it doesn't hurt somebody's feelings, do you?
Speaker 1: You guys can't fully be trusted, and people are going
Speaker 1: to be too nice that they're not if they were inclined,
Speaker 1: if they were so inclined to be like man Clay,
Speaker 1: I really think you missed it on this one. Like
Speaker 1: I would want you to say that and just tell
Speaker 1: me why. I mean, that does mean no good to
Speaker 1: have friends that don't tell me the truth. Now all
Speaker 1: the other people that are listening that are my friends,
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. But the wounds of
Speaker 1: a friend can be trusted, right, I was a joke.
Speaker 1: I want to hear what people think, and I could
Speaker 1: say things right now. I think that would guide what
Speaker 1: you're gonna say in ten minutes from now? What do
Speaker 1: you mean like leading us? I just pe it happens
Speaker 1: all the time. People just they they are led into
Speaker 1: a tone of good. Not today, Dad can be can
Speaker 1: be led like a little sheep. Is sporting his regular gote,
Speaker 1: but his mustache is missing. Yeah, should he be wearing
Speaker 1: one of the mustaches? Yeah, yeah, we got of. There's
Speaker 1: even some gray ones in there. So today on the
Speaker 1: render we have Brent Reeves. Maybe you look a sharp
Speaker 1: Brent you got I would say you have on a
Speaker 1: moderately worn pair of overall stone washedid washed overall. Um.
Speaker 1: I noticed that you're running your crocs and air conditioned mode,
Speaker 1: no socks correct, and you have a beautiful bear grease
Speaker 1: hat on. You actually look really good. I mean it
Speaker 1: looks good. After after that introduction, I can hardly wait
Speaker 1: to hear what I've got to say. Hey, let me
Speaker 1: say I think that Brent might have the shine of
Speaker 1: a winner. He is that what it is? Well, since
Speaker 1: you brought that up, Yeah, and tell us would you win? Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what It took. Took a whale to
Speaker 1: a coon hunt over in East Arkansas at Crockett's Bluff,
Speaker 1: and we went out on his second U K C hunt,
Speaker 1: And my gosh, we wanted want a cast. He did good,
Speaker 1: did good, and I got I got pictures from Alexis
Speaker 1: after the win. So what Brent did is he went
Speaker 1: to a competition coon hunt, which described the mood, the scene,
Speaker 1: the vibe. Man, it's a it was a community center
Speaker 1: over and Crocott's Bluff. It's a real old community and
Speaker 1: there's there's no township or anything there. It's just a community,
Speaker 1: a community of people. There's nothing as far as the
Speaker 1: city or anything like that. But everybody got there. And
Speaker 1: you registers in uk C event and you have to
Speaker 1: be there by a certain time. You know, pay you intry,
Speaker 1: you gotta be a member. You good dogs gotta be registered.
Speaker 1: And I drew out with another guy, uh hunting a
Speaker 1: walker dog, and one guy hunting a blue tick and
Speaker 1: one guy hunting the black and tan and great guys,
Speaker 1: great fellowship. Sportsmanship was good. I didn't find my coon.
Speaker 1: One of the guys I was competing against found it.
Speaker 1: He said, said, there's a coon right there. You know.
Speaker 1: He he didn't have to say anything. He could have
Speaker 1: just kept his mouth shut and that tree would have been,
Speaker 1: according to the rules, would have been a circle tree.
Speaker 1: But yeah, honesty and integrity prevailed and it was good.
Speaker 1: That's good. It was really good. So Wayland won his
Speaker 1: second cast win and and did he win the whole hunter?
Speaker 1: Just the cast, No, just that cast. There was there
Speaker 1: was not an overall winter. We had an early round
Speaker 1: which started around nine o'clock and then in the the late
Speaker 1: round started at midnight. So it was, you know, a
Speaker 1: lately long night. But but we had had a great time. Good.
Speaker 1: I went hunting one time this week and uh it
Speaker 1: took a fern in my new pup hoot and uh
Speaker 1: they trede one time. Didn't see the coon. I'm not
Speaker 1: fully convinced it was there. But we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: try to do a little springtime hunting this year. Oh good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fixing to get really good. The little ones to
Speaker 1: start when they come down everywhere. Brent saw a deer.
Speaker 1: He's sent me a video Dad of the deer completely
Speaker 1: submerged under the water except for its neck and head. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw that social media too, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: you think that you think she was do you think
Speaker 1: she got scared here in whale and tree that close
Speaker 1: to her and just bedded down? It was Michael's dog
Speaker 1: actually is right there beside her and no on that.
Speaker 1: That deer was there ten minutes before the dog came
Speaker 1: in there. We just happened to be standing there, big.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of deer waters up belove there where
Speaker 1: we hunt where Michael caught that coon and we watched him.
Speaker 1: That's eight feet underwater right now, well yeah inside that
Speaker 1: live but there were where we were at. So I've
Speaker 1: watched our friend Michael Roseman catch two coons by hand. Yeah, carry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we saw the deer. We actually Michael shouted light up
Speaker 1: in there and he said, what's that And I said
Speaker 1: that a coon. He said, no, it's a deer. Look
Speaker 1: at it and you could see. I mean it was
Speaker 1: like a periscope death just read it from the neck up,
Speaker 1: sticking up out of the water and you'd bear to
Speaker 1: see her hand in But she was bedded right there.
Speaker 1: There was no mosquitoes, buffalo nets weren't weren't bad. It
Speaker 1: was cool. So, I mean, I don't know. I haven't
Speaker 1: decided if I feel like she was hiding because she
Speaker 1: saw you guys and just hunkered down the water, or
Speaker 1: if she you think she was actually bedded down. But man,
Speaker 1: I have you've come, you've walked up on deer before
Speaker 1: the oaks treat close to h they just they don't
Speaker 1: do nothing, They just lay there. So I just I
Speaker 1: have it's hard for me to believe that she wouldn't
Speaker 1: have walked off, that she would have just hunkered down
Speaker 1: in that water if she hadn't already been there. Weird
Speaker 1: though it was pretty cool. Well, I was just getting
Speaker 1: introductions Misty Dookam, Hey, good, Yeah, you haven't done anything
Speaker 1: like wildly wild in the outdoors, not have you? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I got my garden going. Yeah, mrs Oh.
Speaker 1: Misty was on the Meat Eat Live show in Billings,
Speaker 1: Montana last week. It was a big deal. A lot
Speaker 1: of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. I saw that
Speaker 1: on Instagram. That was intriguing. I'd like to have seen more.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately that show won't be broadcast on the Lead Eater
Speaker 1: podcast feed A live show. That's why you gotta go man. Hey,
Speaker 1: they were There were at least eleven d people there,
Speaker 1: as I understood it, maybe more, and everybody that came
Speaker 1: got one of Steve Ronella's books Raising Kids in the
Speaker 1: Inside World Indoor World. Yeah, and so the podcast was
Speaker 1: structured around raising kids and the outdoors to be engaged
Speaker 1: inside of the outdoor. So it's pretty cool and that's
Speaker 1: why probably why they had Misty on there. Uh and me.
Speaker 1: We have kids and uh so that was fun full
Speaker 1: incredible credentials. Yeah, we have kids. We have produced you
Speaker 1: want to find it wasn't a podcast. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: It was a live show. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Um Chester Floyd played music at the beginning and end.
Speaker 1: Seth fleshed I'm just standing there for you. If you
Speaker 1: got board listen to you could just watch. Oh this
Speaker 1: is a So after the after the event, there was
Speaker 1: people that were in this auditorium that worked there and
Speaker 1: they come in after the show and clean the seats
Speaker 1: and stuff. And uh, there was an older lady that
Speaker 1: came up and she said, uh, she said, not to me,
Speaker 1: but to one of our guys. She said, what was
Speaker 1: that woman doing with those coon hides? I thought she said,
Speaker 1: what was that woman doing with all that meat? Well, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what she said. But she thought Seth was a
Speaker 1: lady because Seth had big not really, but he had
Speaker 1: this big apron on. It looked like a dress you
Speaker 1: just walked in and he was wearing a dress. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, We thought that was We thought that was
Speaker 1: that was funny. Josh, you've been fly fishing a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's been really really wet here. It has been raining
Speaker 1: like crazy inches every day, and so I tried to
Speaker 1: do a little creek fishing yesterday but came up empty handed.
Speaker 1: But we went a couple of weeks ago to the
Speaker 1: White River. Christie caught up brown tea, and you caught
Speaker 1: me some rainbow t cat, Missy some rainbow trout home,
Speaker 1: so I claimed, Missy grilled him. Dad, you've been doing
Speaker 1: anything outdoors fun? You know? We took a little four
Speaker 1: wheeler trip up in northwest Arkansas. I put the old
Speaker 1: can am on the hill they call Highway to Heaven. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it did pretty good? Was it straight up? Pretty much?
Speaker 1: We used to This was in Pope County. Uh actually
Speaker 1: it was in Pope County, but it was a place
Speaker 1: we used to be. We used well poke what we
Speaker 1: used to jeep there. And as we were traversing this area,
Speaker 1: someone said, that's the hill We used to have trouble
Speaker 1: climbing in jeeps in these new side Besides, I mean
Speaker 1: they just on a scale of one to tend steepest
Speaker 1: you've ever done how does it rank? Oh? Um, it
Speaker 1: doesn't at scary in that when you got to the
Speaker 1: top there were really big rocks. You know, I thought
Speaker 1: I'd broke an axle on it, but it didn't. And uh,
Speaker 1: that's a hard that's a hard question because there's so
Speaker 1: many different type hills. You know, some hills you've got
Speaker 1: places where maybe you might flip over. You've got some
Speaker 1: hills that you hit at a high speed. You got
Speaker 1: some hills you crawled. This was kind of a all hill,
Speaker 1: but it was not a big deal. But out of
Speaker 1: a group of about ten vehicles, there were only two
Speaker 1: of us that tried it. Oh really yeah, so and
Speaker 1: we both made it. It was fun. Never come over backwards,
Speaker 1: have you? No? Never? That's amazing. Well, on a full
Speaker 1: wheeler one time, just playing around, I had one come over,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't even you know, it was just it
Speaker 1: was just a freak deal and you got off. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It was one of the first clutch machines
Speaker 1: I'd ever driven, and I was just driving up, stopping
Speaker 1: and then rolling back and somehow I didn't do the
Speaker 1: clutch right flipped over. I remember, I remember when I
Speaker 1: first started hunting with y'all. I didn't grow up on
Speaker 1: four wheelers or anything. And Gary let me take his
Speaker 1: four wheeler out, and I remember I got I tried
Speaker 1: to cross the log lengthways and got high centered on
Speaker 1: the axles and the look of the skull when he
Speaker 1: came around the court, How could you have even let
Speaker 1: this happen? And he was like, get off? Did you
Speaker 1: know that there's some I tried back in the former
Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast days when we could just we
Speaker 1: just talked about whatever we wanted. I was gonna have
Speaker 1: dad and John Mesco, whose dad's best buddy down amna
Speaker 1: um tell some stories of them. Mesco more than once,
Speaker 1: like they had the haul him out of the woods
Speaker 1: and an ambulance or or or I mean he broke
Speaker 1: his leg one time while y'all are out in his
Speaker 1: shoulder one time, and his shoulder one time crawling up
Speaker 1: stuff and Mesco flipped their way. And then I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember, but we were riding with some
Speaker 1: guys one time, and uh, you know, it was pretty
Speaker 1: it was pretty crazy ride and we just knew somebody
Speaker 1: was gonna get hurt, and sure enough, this guy did.
Speaker 1: And when the ambulance came. I went to get the ambulance,
Speaker 1: and the two ladies were driving the ambulance and they said,
Speaker 1: you can't drive an ambulance back there, and I go
Speaker 1: scoot over and they let me drive this brand new
Speaker 1: you know. But I got in this brand new ambulance
Speaker 1: and I drove it. If you know Wolfpin Gap. I
Speaker 1: drove that sucker way back in the Wolfpin Gap and
Speaker 1: when I stopped, it was just boiling over with smoke.
Speaker 1: But the guy lived, I mean, he was really What
Speaker 1: happened on that wreck, Well, he just hit a jump
Speaker 1: wrong and and the thing flipped on him. Instead of
Speaker 1: him doing anything to correct it, he just hung onto
Speaker 1: the handlebars and it just drove his head straight into
Speaker 1: me and on a side on the four winner. Yeah, wasn't.
Speaker 1: It's a long time ago, and Mesco knew what to do,
Speaker 1: and he you know, and I was definitely going to
Speaker 1: go get the ambulances. You drove that ambulance all the
Speaker 1: way back in the Yeah. Well, the other time that
Speaker 1: they are one of the times they were riding and
Speaker 1: it was just Dad and John and John Flips gets
Speaker 1: in the rack. You can go into details or whatever,
Speaker 1: but they had to make a splint and splint John's
Speaker 1: leg up and interesting him being a doctor, We're going
Speaker 1: down this steel. It looked like a cow's face. I
Speaker 1: mean it was just straight down. But we didn't have
Speaker 1: any choice. We got back in there, the woods got
Speaker 1: lost and John. I had John right on the back
Speaker 1: of my I said, John, we both had a brand
Speaker 1: new side. Besides, we don't have function foilers fowilers, And
Speaker 1: I said, you right on the back of my rack
Speaker 1: because this is like driving off of bluff. So he
Speaker 1: got on my rack road down on. So I started
Speaker 1: running back up the hill to get on his rack.
Speaker 1: But he thought I can do this. Well, he got
Speaker 1: halfway down and it didn't behave the way it was
Speaker 1: supposed to or the way he thought it was gonna behave,
Speaker 1: and it just it just like pitched him out into
Speaker 1: the air fifteen feet up and when he landed, it
Speaker 1: just snapped his leg. And then that that side beside
Speaker 1: a four wheeler just kept chasing him down the hill
Speaker 1: and it went five times. And when it got to
Speaker 1: the bottom, he's sitting next to a tree in the
Speaker 1: side besides, like right here, and it never touched him
Speaker 1: except the rubber. But to get him out of the woods.
Speaker 1: He goes, okay, cut six little sticks about the size
Speaker 1: of my thumb, six inches long, get your tarp out
Speaker 1: of the back, give me your duct tape. I had
Speaker 1: everything and he just made a cast for it. Was
Speaker 1: it his lower leg like a sin. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: he rode my side. My wad are out side saddle
Speaker 1: with all that stuff on. It took us about two hours,
Speaker 1: three hours to get him to the hospital. When you
Speaker 1: hear that Endian the Jones music start playing, you need
Speaker 1: to stop whatever you do. Turn everything office. You can
Speaker 1: cut that out anyway. That's that's wild man. Um four
Speaker 1: Weather Stories. I wasn't planning to go there, but we did. Um.
Speaker 1: But that so this podcast, okay man, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: Josh and Britain have emotions connected to the podcast that
Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting Josh coming in and saying, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: a I'm a I'm a whirlwind of emotion. You've got
Speaker 1: conflicting emotions. Yeah, yeah, Because I think the statement that
Speaker 1: that caught me the most was Andy Brown when he
Speaker 1: was talking about Louis Dale and he said he didn't
Speaker 1: do everything right, but he did a lot of stuff right,
Speaker 1: and that there's a juxtaposition there. That's like I think
Speaker 1: I feel the same way that you do, Clay. It's
Speaker 1: like there's so many good qualities and it's like does
Speaker 1: one cancel out the other? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And so it leaves you in this quandary of like
Speaker 1: and and not that you have to in your life
Speaker 1: support or not support someone. But you know, I I've
Speaker 1: known lots of people in my life obviously, as everybody has.
Speaker 1: But uh, you know I I remember when we first
Speaker 1: moved to Texas when I was a kid, there was
Speaker 1: a there was a guy. We we lived in this
Speaker 1: where we were poor. We lived in this little mobile
Speaker 1: home outside of this uh Junkyard, and I thought it
Speaker 1: was the greatest thing in the world because I would
Speaker 1: go wander around Junkyard. It was like heaven for me.
Speaker 1: But the guy that owned owned it, his name was
Speaker 1: von Arney. And I remember von Arnie. You'd go in
Speaker 1: his house and I remember, and I was like six,
Speaker 1: maybe six at this time. Well his his daughter with
Speaker 1: babysitting me while my mom was working and go in
Speaker 1: the house. And they had to trust your They had
Speaker 1: they had lots of mechanics and stuff that would come
Speaker 1: in and like every night they would just have ten
Speaker 1: fifteen people at the dinner table. His wife would just
Speaker 1: make enough food for a big group. But I remember
Speaker 1: von Arnie, and I remember like he was always real
Speaker 1: kind to me, but then I would see him deal
Speaker 1: with people, and I knew everybody kind of knew, like
Speaker 1: you love von but you can't quite trust Vaughan, you know,
Speaker 1: and everybody called him von Arni, von Arni, Hey, von Arni. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, but I remember that same kind of feeling
Speaker 1: about this guy, like I really like him, but there's
Speaker 1: something about him that's like you just can't get settled
Speaker 1: about it. And I, you know, listening to the podcast,
Speaker 1: it kind of made me think of those kind of
Speaker 1: feelings about about Louis Dellen. Von Arney was a crook.
Speaker 1: He was a con man. I think the thing about
Speaker 1: these two guys, you don't condone what they did. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just wrong, period. There's just no two ways to
Speaker 1: skin that cat. But they did so many good things
Speaker 1: that the good people didn't even do. I mean, they
Speaker 1: helped people that no one even knew about until the funeral.
Speaker 1: They did things that were way beyond the normal human activities.
Speaker 1: I mean, they were just so you can't spend it
Speaker 1: where what they did was right. It's just not. But
Speaker 1: but why do we like them? And the reason we
Speaker 1: like them is because they love people. They helped people,
Speaker 1: they treated people right. I would I would come completely
Speaker 1: agree with you because I think that that in a sense,
Speaker 1: some of the like the specifically the poaching, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of that was probably cultural. You know, from
Speaker 1: the way they grew up. You know, they took meat,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know there was a lot of
Speaker 1: distrust of the government, so you know, game and fish.
Speaker 1: Coming in and saying you can harvest x number of
Speaker 1: deer and x number of turkeys is like, this is
Speaker 1: my my country. You know, you don't you can't tell
Speaker 1: me what to do in my country. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I totally agree. You know, it made me think about
Speaker 1: the scripture where it talks about when you give, you know,
Speaker 1: don't don't need to be recognized for giving. And you know,
Speaker 1: thinking about all the people that they helped that nobody
Speaker 1: knew about but them until the funeral, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I think those are there's some very commendable traits. It
Speaker 1: didn't do everything right, but they did a lot of
Speaker 1: things right. What do you think, Brent. It was a
Speaker 1: struggle for me. You know, I've been a in law
Speaker 1: enforcement for thirty one years and I have all has
Speaker 1: had the mindset that if I cla if I arrested
Speaker 1: you for something and you played not guilty and we
Speaker 1: went to trial and you were found guilty, I always thought, well,
Speaker 1: let's go back and charging perjury because he's obviously lying
Speaker 1: because he did it. Twelve people said he did. I
Speaker 1: found it very intriguing. I did not find him endearing
Speaker 1: at all, but no, not even a little bit. Um.
Speaker 1: But I also don't know him. I don't have the
Speaker 1: background that that Gary has, that Clay has, that you
Speaker 1: have from from being around these folks. But it was, um.
Speaker 1: It's hard for me, having been in situations where people
Speaker 1: were good, people make poor decisions in the heat of
Speaker 1: the moment. It's hard for me to find an endearing
Speaker 1: quality in someone who leaves the house with the purpose
Speaker 1: of doing something that ain't right. So the confrontation and
Speaker 1: and you know, I've said it on here before. If
Speaker 1: you want two different stories about an incident, get two
Speaker 1: people who said they were eyewitnesses to it, because people
Speaker 1: see things different. But to have uh, the internet, where
Speaker 1: the where it was a game warden or park ranger
Speaker 1: or whatever it was who was threatened over over the dog.
Speaker 1: When you put on when you put someone's you point
Speaker 1: a weapon at somebody there, you put someone's life equal
Speaker 1: to that of an animal. You know, it's life is precious, man.
Speaker 1: And I have seen so much stuff that people wished
Speaker 1: and that he's the moment they wished they hadn't hadn't done.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine taking someone's life over an animal
Speaker 1: like that, if it ever happened, if it happened, if
Speaker 1: that's the way it happened, you know it was. It
Speaker 1: was just a struggle for me to to see that
Speaker 1: or to try to rationalize. That's why I wanted to
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on it, because your worldview would be
Speaker 1: coming from a career of law enforcement. And that's that's
Speaker 1: the one place. What you wouldn't know is that I
Speaker 1: went to multiple people not to get permission. I got
Speaker 1: permission and the blessing from the family. That's who I
Speaker 1: went and said, hey, I'm gonna do this. I bounced
Speaker 1: this off many people, um law enforcement people to some
Speaker 1: of them people in in uh in government positions, just
Speaker 1: kind of like, Hey, what what would you think if
Speaker 1: I did this and it You know, you couldn't tell
Speaker 1: the whole story, and you couldn't. I didn't even know
Speaker 1: exactly what the story was. I mean I kind of
Speaker 1: grew up around these guys, but I didn't know the
Speaker 1: full story like I do now or more of the
Speaker 1: full story. Did you meet them clear? Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: would have known them. I would have just been a kid.
Speaker 1: Uh uh. And I'll reveal later in the podcast and
Speaker 1: I might tell you now because I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna include it. But like the times I met them,
Speaker 1: like we went to a we went to Louis Dell's
Speaker 1: catfish shootout body. I remember going to their house and fish.
Speaker 1: They hosted a big bowshoot and Louis Dell had a
Speaker 1: catfish farm. Um, and then you would just see him around.
Speaker 1: I knew who they were, and I knew Stony and
Speaker 1: I worked with Charlie's son once for several months on
Speaker 1: a Weldon gig um. When you're when you're a builder, yeah,
Speaker 1: when I was a builder. I think the story was
Speaker 1: I think the telling the story is important for people
Speaker 1: to know, and I think it was. It was good.
Speaker 1: There was another thing that bothered me a little bit,
Speaker 1: and it was some folks that commented after you've released
Speaker 1: it on social media of that even after I know
Speaker 1: of twice, if not three times, you said this is
Speaker 1: not glorifying or condoning what they did, and they were that,
Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of taking a back that you
Speaker 1: would would talk about this. You know that they kind
Speaker 1: of tried to throw some shade on you. And I
Speaker 1: want to say this right now, I don't know anybody
Speaker 1: then the last couple of years, during deer season, if
Speaker 1: it was this year or last year, whenever it was,
Speaker 1: they had a world class whitetail and not one for Arkansas,
Speaker 1: but won a world class whitetail in this part of
Speaker 1: the world. There was only a few feet inside a
Speaker 1: piece of property that Clay didn't have permission to hunt,
Speaker 1: and he let that deer walk off and he never
Speaker 1: seen him since, and he was by hisself, and there
Speaker 1: was no camera and there was no witness. Those guys
Speaker 1: would have shot that, dear, I don't know, and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that I would have either, but I know
Speaker 1: that you didn't, and I know the purpose behind this
Speaker 1: was not to glorify what they were doing, but tell
Speaker 1: a good story, and it is an incredible story that
Speaker 1: and that brings up a great point for me to
Speaker 1: and you can help me work through this, because for real,
Speaker 1: I don't entirely have it all worked out exactly why
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell this story other than much of
Speaker 1: the well, all the topics in this podcast are going
Speaker 1: to be things that I am deeply intrigued by. I
Speaker 1: mean that that's that's the barometer, like where is my interest?
Speaker 1: Me and Dad and Scott Brown and and everybody that's
Speaker 1: down in Mina. Oh, all you gotta do to strike
Speaker 1: up a conversation with somebody is say something about Louis
Speaker 1: Dell and Charlie. We all want to talk about them,
Speaker 1: we all. I mean, I have no shame in saying
Speaker 1: I'm deeply intrigued by these guys and not. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't because they were outlaws. It was the paradox that
Speaker 1: they were outlaws with with with game Warden. And you're
Speaker 1: gonna see, you know, Louis Dell was a moonshiner, illegally
Speaker 1: making moonshine and stuff. But even inside of that, you'll
Speaker 1: hear the story and you'll kind of be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: but they were, and the way Dad said it was,
Speaker 1: they did a lot of things that the squeaky clean
Speaker 1: people that never killed an illegal turkey wouldn't do. And
Speaker 1: and that's where, well there's value in that well and
Speaker 1: and it doesn't. It's so it's not it's just the
Speaker 1: story I was interested in telling. And that's why in
Speaker 1: the very beginning I said, don't blame me if you're
Speaker 1: endeared to these guys. But also you get to make
Speaker 1: a choice. And I totally respect what you're saying, Brant,
Speaker 1: because it's not like I mean, yeah, we I mean
Speaker 1: truly disdain breaking game laws. I'll turn you in and
Speaker 1: a flash for bake breaking a game law, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, it gets it's it's um. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's if it's braggadocious or or or what it
Speaker 1: is to be able to if they killed a quarter
Speaker 1: of what they were accused of, but you know, it's
Speaker 1: a selfish way to look at it, you know, because
Speaker 1: they're the game laws are set there for everybody, and
Speaker 1: when they if they don't apply to everybody, that they
Speaker 1: don't work, you know. And I mean you look at
Speaker 1: where we are right now, Mr Charlie and Mr Louis
Speaker 1: Dale didn't cause us to you know, have low Turkey
Speaker 1: numbers now, But what would that be down there if
Speaker 1: if that hadn't taken place. Who knows. That's a micro
Speaker 1: way to look at that as far as that area
Speaker 1: that that they're from. But it was just, um, I
Speaker 1: just think it was a selfish way to look at it.
Speaker 1: You know, I agree with everything you're saying, uh, but
Speaker 1: there's another side you being law enforcement. I came into
Speaker 1: the hunting world where all I knew was quill hunting
Speaker 1: from my dad, and I do I didn't like it
Speaker 1: because he was such a crazy I mean, he just
Speaker 1: hunted all the time. I mean, you know, he just
Speaker 1: he not all the time, but when he went, it
Speaker 1: was it was work. I go, man, I don't want
Speaker 1: any part of this. So I had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with a hunting world until I got twenty six, and
Speaker 1: so I was introduced to bow hunting and I immediately
Speaker 1: fell in love with it. And I got to watching
Speaker 1: people and I saw nobody. Now take this literal, I'm
Speaker 1: telling you like I saw it. I knew nobody that
Speaker 1: wouldn't kill an illegal deer, and I'm like in a
Speaker 1: state of shock. I'm not gonna do that. I didn't
Speaker 1: have uncles that taught me that. I didn't have a
Speaker 1: dad that taught me that. Now, if you run up
Speaker 1: against Josh, he's a city boy out enjoying honting, you know,
Speaker 1: two or three times a year. Now, he's not gonna
Speaker 1: kill anything illegal. He read the regulations and just did
Speaker 1: what it said. Yeah. Yeah, But the die hard hunters,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you from my perspective, you got to keep
Speaker 1: that in mind. My perspective, they all killed illegal stuff.
Speaker 1: So where do you draw the line. I killed one person,
Speaker 1: I kill fifty people. I mean, you're killing stuff. It's illegal,
Speaker 1: And where is it bad. It's bad with one, it's
Speaker 1: bad with ten, it's bad with thirty. These guys took
Speaker 1: their bad ways and turn it in into a game.
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, you know whether you like
Speaker 1: that or not. But but a lot of people, well
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are real hardcore kill stuff.
Speaker 1: So when I was talking to one of the law
Speaker 1: enforcement guys, and I won't say his name, but he
Speaker 1: kind of dissected a little bit of me with with
Speaker 1: of the podcast, and he said, he said, Clay, there
Speaker 1: are not old time poachers like there used to be,
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Martin said it too, there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a potential. Well, I'm not justifying and I don't
Speaker 1: have to qualify that I'm not justifying their actions. But
Speaker 1: every time we look into history and see something that
Speaker 1: went on and then put today's value system on that thing,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that what they did was right. Then
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying. But it is different. And
Speaker 1: what what Dad's saying compares to what Jimmy Martin said
Speaker 1: and what this other law enforcement guy that I said
Speaker 1: that I spoke with, he said, Clay, things are not
Speaker 1: like they used to be. He said, the old time
Speaker 1: poachers are are pretty much gone. And and what he
Speaker 1: meant by that was used to you could go poaching,
Speaker 1: or you can you go hunting and illegally kill something
Speaker 1: and you had to go home to a landline phone
Speaker 1: to call in the game warden. Anymore, we have cell phones,
Speaker 1: we have self service. It's just much more difficult to
Speaker 1: hide stuff. You send a picture. So partly law enforcement
Speaker 1: methods I think have gotten better, but also it's just
Speaker 1: culturally not except there's the exception. You know there's somebody
Speaker 1: out there and probably like, yeah, I used to do that.
Speaker 1: But these character character types like Loui, Dell and Charlie,
Speaker 1: actually we're fairly common. Like I was talking to my friend, Um,
Speaker 1: I'll say his name, and he said that he knew
Speaker 1: some guys in a state and he said, Clay, they
Speaker 1: tried to kill a turkey for every year of their age,
Speaker 1: and they did it till they were forty. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: every season. So I was kind of surprised by that
Speaker 1: because you know, you kind of think that, oh, these
Speaker 1: outlaws are probably as good as they come, or you know,
Speaker 1: is is notorious as they come, kill as much. And
Speaker 1: I told you it's the story. He listened to it
Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, I knew some guys like that.
Speaker 1: And it was in a state that had incredible turkey populations,
Speaker 1: and it was in the a part of the world
Speaker 1: that revers turkey hunting and um, and these guys were
Speaker 1: just wearing them out and they were basically doing the
Speaker 1: same thing as lou and Charley. They were. They were
Speaker 1: getting dropped off and hiding guns. I mean, that's kind
Speaker 1: of the norm. Um. The other reason that I did
Speaker 1: this is I part of what makes um light bright
Speaker 1: is darkness. I mean it's like we have built such
Speaker 1: a system and it's so deeply ingrained inside of me.
Speaker 1: Not that I do everything perfect, I've I've broke game
Speaker 1: laws before, but there and I'm gonna tell at him
Speaker 1: on the next party. They can go back to the
Speaker 1: Arkansas Journal. Yeah you find original, Yeah yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1: But I think it helps to see the big picture,
Speaker 1: and like I envisioned maybe some people new to hunting,
Speaker 1: like like you Dad, that you said when you first
Speaker 1: started big game hunting, you'd You've grown up doing some hunting,
Speaker 1: but big game hunting, and you were like, well, those
Speaker 1: are the regulations. Everybody obeys the rules, right, And then
Speaker 1: you got in there and we're like nobody okay, And
Speaker 1: that's just the way it was. I like the way
Speaker 1: Andy said it at one time when he said Louis
Speaker 1: Delle turned his dogs out in October one. He was
Speaker 1: like he was like, he's like laying out of his
Speaker 1: chair and he said, that's just the way it happened. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was right, you know. Anyway, point being,
Speaker 1: this is part of the culture that we're coming out
Speaker 1: of that I think we're doing a good job of
Speaker 1: saying we shouldn't do. Well, I'll tell you what this
Speaker 1: what this law enforcement guy told me. He said, the
Speaker 1: big time poachers of today. He said, there ultra secret
Speaker 1: you don't see him on the internet. Guy's posting stuff
Speaker 1: on the internet. Get caught. They're gonna get caught. But
Speaker 1: there are some people that are like high level, high
Speaker 1: level poachers that you just don't hear about, you don't
Speaker 1: know about, but are killing an incredible amount of stuff. So, Misty,
Speaker 1: what did you think. Well, it's it's so interesting to
Speaker 1: hear people, I mean to hear different perspectives, to even
Speaker 1: here that there are different perspectives. I'm just listening to y'all,
Speaker 1: and I'm I have a lot of thoughts. I was
Speaker 1: raised around outlaws. Do you know that Britain like bikers,
Speaker 1: And so my my dad was a minister and he'd
Speaker 1: go out to pretty rough places and you know, built
Speaker 1: a lot of try So we would get invited to
Speaker 1: you know, funerals and weddings and all sorts of things
Speaker 1: in some pretty messed up places. And those men were
Speaker 1: so nice to me as a little girl. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have told you that, you know. So, and so I
Speaker 1: I felt real comfortable and and like these were my
Speaker 1: grandparents or my my uncle's theo. So those are the
Speaker 1: people that I was raised around. So I think I
Speaker 1: have a predisposition to see the soft, the kind side
Speaker 1: inside of pretty rough, rough characters, and to to like that,
Speaker 1: to to like people like that, just to feel safe
Speaker 1: with people who are you know, maybe weapons on on people.
Speaker 1: But I was just thinking about, like, you know, if
Speaker 1: you were to ask me, if if if you would
Speaker 1: ask me who those people were, I would give you
Speaker 1: a description of really nice people. People that always kept
Speaker 1: candy in their pockets and gave it to me, People
Speaker 1: who you know, just treated me real yeah and real,
Speaker 1: we're real nice to me. But I guess if you
Speaker 1: were to ask, you know, I'm sure the victims of
Speaker 1: their their crimes, like the guy he pulled the gun on,
Speaker 1: I would imagine he would not have a nice who's
Speaker 1: to say perspective? Yeah, who's to say what they really were?
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things that we
Speaker 1: do a lot is we judge people based off of
Speaker 1: these really bad things they do in reality. You know,
Speaker 1: I've I've I work in kind of a different circle
Speaker 1: now then that I grew up in. And there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that I trust, that looked really nice
Speaker 1: and that would never probably pull a gun on someone
Speaker 1: over a dog or for whatever reason. But I don't
Speaker 1: trust them at all. I don't and I don't think
Speaker 1: they're good people, and I don't feel safe around them,
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't trust them at all. And
Speaker 1: they can walk into a bank and get alone and
Speaker 1: be treated and I don't like them, and I don't
Speaker 1: feel I don't feel safe around those kind of people.
Speaker 1: And and I'm just thinking, like what makes a person?
Speaker 1: When Andy Brown at the very and said they were
Speaker 1: just so pure, I thought that is such an interesting,
Speaker 1: such an interesting way to describe them. They were just
Speaker 1: so pure, because it's this is the last thing I
Speaker 1: thought he was gonna say, Yeah, who who are we really?
Speaker 1: And you I think you see, in general, we want
Speaker 1: to be we want to be interpreted by our best attributes,
Speaker 1: by our And I think the reason that Clay and
Speaker 1: his dad have respect for these guys and I actually
Speaker 1: didn't know that my mom did, but I didn't, but
Speaker 1: they they have heard these other this other side of them.
Speaker 1: I just think people are so complex. And that's why
Speaker 1: the story Clay would come home and talk to me
Speaker 1: about these interviews. He was doing it about these stories,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed the stories because I think it
Speaker 1: really shows the complexity of people. And I think this
Speaker 1: day and age, we look at people and we say
Speaker 1: that person did this one time. And I'm not saying
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing, Britt, but I'm just saying, like
Speaker 1: in cultural today, we look at things that people did, mistakes,
Speaker 1: they made things law times that have changed, and we
Speaker 1: say that was evil and that person is evil. In reality,
Speaker 1: people do all sorts of crazy things. You know, if
Speaker 1: you even biblically, if you look at people like that
Speaker 1: God love, they did some really really crazy stuff. And
Speaker 1: I kind of I kind of feel some sort of
Speaker 1: comfort in the sense that you're not judged by those
Speaker 1: by your worst actions. Who you are is not is
Speaker 1: the sum of you know, kind of more the core
Speaker 1: of you then and the worst things you've done. And
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the story of the podcast kind
Speaker 1: of tells at Yeah, I just want to make absolutely clear,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying these folks for bad people. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I you know, I said in the beginning that I
Speaker 1: set out to resolve inner conflict, which is just the
Speaker 1: truth inner conflict of why do I why do I
Speaker 1: like these guys? But they but they what they did
Speaker 1: I would absolutely not stand for. Like if I was
Speaker 1: in that if I Turkey hunted then saw him walk
Speaker 1: out of the woods with a gobbler two days before season,
Speaker 1: I would be chasing them down in the truck to
Speaker 1: turn them in. And then when I figured out who
Speaker 1: it was, maybe I you know, I think I think
Speaker 1: almost everybody has the feelings that Brent has, but not
Speaker 1: not the depth and you know you've got experience. But
Speaker 1: it's like it's like me, uh hey, I was for
Speaker 1: the game. I was for the game Wardens. I'll be
Speaker 1: honest with you. I love Charlie and Louis deal, but
Speaker 1: there's no way that uh I was for for what
Speaker 1: they were doing. And here's another thought, is I knew
Speaker 1: Charlie and Louis Deal as humans. I mean they when
Speaker 1: I saw Charlie and Louis Dell, I didn't think of
Speaker 1: Turkey poor poachers, even though it probably really did. But
Speaker 1: trying to make a point that they were they were
Speaker 1: hard working people that I enjoyed being around. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: talking to them and had come in my office and
Speaker 1: sat down and tell stories that they were just they
Speaker 1: were just good, good folks. Now they were Turkey poachers secondly,
Speaker 1: so you know we're looking at almost turkey poachers and
Speaker 1: then these people, but they were these people that poached.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that yeah, well what what?
Speaker 1: What it says is that everything is complex. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like I saw some comment where just somebody
Speaker 1: said I don't revere these scumbags, and they were using
Speaker 1: my words because I said I revered him. And it's
Speaker 1: just like, I get it. If you there are places
Speaker 1: in that guy's life where I guarantee you he does
Speaker 1: revere somebody that if it was someone far off, he
Speaker 1: would say they're a scumbag. Point being, we it's just
Speaker 1: a complex story being a human. Yeah, what we're gonna say, Josh, Well,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking because I was thinking, you know,
Speaker 1: there is a there's a dichotomy here that that you know,
Speaker 1: we revere him and we don't like what they do. You.
Speaker 1: But I think I think a lot of times in
Speaker 1: situations like this, when you're talking about, for instance, poaching, um,
Speaker 1: there is a there's got to be the thought in
Speaker 1: the back of a man's mind that this isn't really
Speaker 1: hurting anyone, you know what I mean, there's and I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of a dividing line of what what
Speaker 1: you say, what's a bad person, what's a good person.
Speaker 1: I think in the back of their mind they're thinking,
Speaker 1: nobody's really getting hurt by this. It's just a law
Speaker 1: to try to keep you know whatever. But I'm not
Speaker 1: hurting anybody by doing it. And I think that that
Speaker 1: can that can be easily justified away by the good
Speaker 1: things that you do, you know what I mean, because
Speaker 1: you care about people and you know you look out
Speaker 1: for him, and you know, I'm just killing a few
Speaker 1: extra deer if you're killing a few extra turkeys. Now,
Speaker 1: when we take into consideration, you know, pointing a gun
Speaker 1: at a out an officer, that's that's well, let me
Speaker 1: tell you what. And this is kind of deep, deeper
Speaker 1: nuance inside of the takeaway from it, and I hope
Speaker 1: us was maybe portrayed at the end of the podcast
Speaker 1: when I gave my summary more than that part you
Speaker 1: don't listen to. If you could take the mold of
Speaker 1: those guys a mold and put something else different, maybe
Speaker 1: a little a little different concoction inside of it, I
Speaker 1: said that those guys could have given a master class
Speaker 1: on identity and being genuine, which are two things that
Speaker 1: are massively, massively in the mix in the fight for
Speaker 1: every person on planet Earth, every person in this room.
Speaker 1: Like we're kind, I mean the struggle of human nature
Speaker 1: is who are we? And I mean if you don't,
Speaker 1: if you don't identify with that statement, it's just because
Speaker 1: I didn't say it in your language the way that
Speaker 1: you would. Because you are you. You are trying to
Speaker 1: find who you are? Who? Who are you supposed to be?
Speaker 1: How are you supposed to act? What are you supposed
Speaker 1: to value? What do you supposed to say? Who you're
Speaker 1: supposed to love? Where? Where are you supposed to work?
Speaker 1: Where you supposed to put your energy? Where do you
Speaker 1: get your validation? Who do you want to say that
Speaker 1: you're good? Who do you want to you know? The
Speaker 1: identity and most of us and I'm I'm putting me
Speaker 1: inside of there are are? Our identity is shaped often
Speaker 1: in the negative space of I don't want to be
Speaker 1: like that, I don't want to be perceived this way.
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of this, I'm afraid of that, And so
Speaker 1: a lot of identities built out of insecurity and what
Speaker 1: I saw inside of interview and Charlie and loudl and I,
Speaker 1: you know, I was just a kid with these guys,
Speaker 1: so it's not like I had personal adult interaction. You know.
Speaker 1: Knew knowing them was that they really didn't care a
Speaker 1: lot about what people thought. They had this shape of
Speaker 1: who they were, they weren't ashamed of it. And Neil
Speaker 1: Taylor said it so well. He said they were content
Speaker 1: with who they were. They didn't want to be anything
Speaker 1: that they weren't, and they had a value system that
Speaker 1: they kept their whole life. And they were the same
Speaker 1: way with the game warden as they were with their
Speaker 1: best buddy down the street. It's like, what has value
Speaker 1: as a human the guy that you know? Let me
Speaker 1: ask every person that's ever that's listening to this right now,
Speaker 1: have you broken the game law? Have you killed one
Speaker 1: more than you're supposed to? Miss Nucam is the only
Speaker 1: angel here? Maybe Josh too, you accidentally? Okay, well you're
Speaker 1: a poacher? Um No, I can't even believe you. Listen.
Speaker 1: Here's here's my point is that Charlie and Louis Dell
Speaker 1: broke game laws and hid stuff, but they were they
Speaker 1: were upfront about it. They just war They knew it.
Speaker 1: Everybody knew it. We all knew it. People gravitate to
Speaker 1: someone that you can trust, even if you can trust
Speaker 1: them to be a poacher, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And that comes into play with the identity. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the thing that makes people feel unsure
Speaker 1: is when you have someone that you don't think can't
Speaker 1: get to read exactly. I mean, what makes you more
Speaker 1: uncomfortable than meeting someone and thinking, I have no idea
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of I don't know if they
Speaker 1: like me or they hate me, or if they want
Speaker 1: to steal my money or stab me in the back
Speaker 1: or want to Andy said that, he said, he said,
Speaker 1: Louis Edwards didn't beat around the bush with anybody. He
Speaker 1: was just up front. Do you have an example of
Speaker 1: the way he would have been. No, not really. I
Speaker 1: didn't know him as well as Andy, but I knew
Speaker 1: him pretty well. I mean we shot bows together, and uh,
Speaker 1: he'd stopped by the bank occasionally and just visit. But
Speaker 1: I really can't elaborate on what he said. I can't
Speaker 1: give you a story, but uh, I agreed with it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't put up any facades. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you didn't like your bow hunter, and you don't
Speaker 1: like the kind of bow he uses, you know how
Speaker 1: we do. If I if you gotta recurve, if you
Speaker 1: don't like my compound, if I got a compound, I
Speaker 1: don't like your gun. I mean, he didn't care anything
Speaker 1: about that kind of stuff. I mean, just you know,
Speaker 1: he he had dogs. If you don't like dogs, that's tough.
Speaker 1: You don't like my big guns, that's tough. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: But you know, I just resect a certainty of it.
Speaker 1: I just do. I mean, and and and what we
Speaker 1: we've got to build is people that have a value
Speaker 1: system that's really good, have that kind of certainty, that
Speaker 1: have that kind of That's what I want. I mean,
Speaker 1: I and and Man, if there's one thing that I
Speaker 1: value inside of what I'm doing is that when I
Speaker 1: interact with people, and especially on something like this, when
Speaker 1: I'm really researching somebody, whether it's Warren or Glenn or
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone or Louis Dell and Charlie Edwards, which is
Speaker 1: wild that's probably never broken a game off. Oh come on, now,
Speaker 1: well since he was fourteen, Um, I know you're joking.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't he's a very he's a very good feller.
Speaker 1: The one thing about these guys too, Uh see, I
Speaker 1: was brought up in a home where, you know, it's
Speaker 1: pretty sterile, pretty pure, and in a way, Clay Nukelen
Speaker 1: was brought up in a home like that and missed
Speaker 1: he was and probably uh a lot of you guys
Speaker 1: listened pointed at Brent and then kind of turned the Strea.
Speaker 1: But dad's dad was a preacher. My grandfather was a preacher.
Speaker 1: So dad is a preacher's kid. So you know, hey,
Speaker 1: we're not all dealt the same hand. I mean, these
Speaker 1: guys were brought up by moonshiners that when they got
Speaker 1: up in the morning, their daddy's and mama's were going, now,
Speaker 1: you guys study hard at school and don't be getting
Speaker 1: in trouble, and these are our rules, and be good boys.
Speaker 1: Uh But they come home and they're making moonshine and
Speaker 1: the little kids are going, why are the cops gotta surrounded?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're brought up if they see
Speaker 1: their heroes and their mentors and their leaders and and
Speaker 1: they're all a bunch of criminals. And so you got
Speaker 1: these little guys growing up in that environment and when
Speaker 1: they break out on their own, you see this kind
Speaker 1: of like Andy said, pure. I mean I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: agree with that word pure, but in a sense, you
Speaker 1: see this pure human that you're He's got honesty, integrity, handshakes.
Speaker 1: All you need. You just keep going on and on.
Speaker 1: You need help. He's there, just bam, bam bam, and
Speaker 1: you're going wow. And the guy killed a few extra turkeys. Now,
Speaker 1: which way am I gonna go with this guy? You know?
Speaker 1: And uh so they were brought up in an environment
Speaker 1: that you know, they were making a living illegally. Man,
Speaker 1: the I thought the I didn't know what I was
Speaker 1: getting into when I talked to Stony. They they literally
Speaker 1: just put out this three ring binder where they had
Speaker 1: laminated newspaper clippings from ninety six and it and it
Speaker 1: was all this stuff about the moonshine and getting you know,
Speaker 1: basically the police, you know where they were acquitted of
Speaker 1: murder and we don't know the whole story, but man
Speaker 1: was killed. Police were six police when we put on
Speaker 1: trial for murder. All of them were acquitted and a
Speaker 1: man and his coon dog were dead. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: in it point being just you know that the story
Speaker 1: lines up. You know, the story lines up. There's a
Speaker 1: trajectory there, there is you know this, this probably get
Speaker 1: me a lot of trouble, so you can cut this out.
Speaker 1: But I've always said the mafia, when they tell you
Speaker 1: they're gonna kill you, they're gonna kill you. You know,
Speaker 1: in other words, you can trust them. I mean that
Speaker 1: there's there's an integrity inside of every little system that
Speaker 1: if it's dealt off of honesty, it usually works. And
Speaker 1: they only honesty the Mafia has is if you disagree
Speaker 1: with him, you're probably gonna die. But you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Charlie's little group. I mean,
Speaker 1: all they're doing is killing turkeys, but they had this
Speaker 1: integrity that meant a lot to them, and they lived
Speaker 1: within those boundaries. I think what Misty said, and Brent,
Speaker 1: I want to hear your real thoughts, because I would
Speaker 1: love it if you just want. You guys are full
Speaker 1: of this philosophy stuff. But let me let me say this.
Speaker 1: What Misty said. When she said that, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think this would be pretty deep. Inside of
Speaker 1: Missing in particular, is that there is a whitewashed righteousness
Speaker 1: that is just malarkey in the world where you see
Speaker 1: people that have a glimmer a shine of being perfect
Speaker 1: and they're not at all. And I mean, that's part
Speaker 1: of what is so intriguing to me about rural culture
Speaker 1: and poor people and all this stuff is that the
Speaker 1: world has said these people are not a value I
Speaker 1: mean essentially in some bigger macro picture of of of
Speaker 1: where value is. And that is something that from a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean just from birth. I kind of keyed in
Speaker 1: on that that that guy may look pretty, but he's
Speaker 1: a bad guy. That guy may have some rough edges,
Speaker 1: but he's a good guy. And that's like real strong
Speaker 1: inside of me, like I would rather well. And there's
Speaker 1: there's all kind of there's all kind of proverbs about
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know better to better to say
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do it and then do it. Then
Speaker 1: to say you're gonna do it and not do it.
Speaker 1: You know, so might as well just portray yourself as
Speaker 1: whatever you want to portray yourself. A lot of that
Speaker 1: comes with the unknown. In other words, if I know
Speaker 1: Brent and I know what to expect, he can you know,
Speaker 1: he can do a couple of little goofy things and
Speaker 1: it's okay, I know what's going on. But if he's
Speaker 1: all polished and shined and trying to sell me a
Speaker 1: bill of goods and he's a cold man, like I
Speaker 1: shouldn't adjudged your old buddy like I did. It made
Speaker 1: the point, you know, a guy like that, where you're going,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, he treats me like a king, and
Speaker 1: then he's he's like, given this guy raw bill. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's you're getting something that you don't see
Speaker 1: with your eyes. You know. I want to see the
Speaker 1: whole guy. Then I can deal with it, even you know,
Speaker 1: go back to the mafia, which kind of stupid. All
Speaker 1: I know is I don't know a couple of things.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna kill me, you know. Yeah, so at
Speaker 1: least I know where I stand. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be around these people. Yeah. But uh, but a lot
Speaker 1: of most folks, a lot of folks around you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know what we're getting. Well, you think, well,
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to make good choices and bad choices,
Speaker 1: and there's always circumstances for that. The incident with the
Speaker 1: dog true or not. But I'm sure there's other things
Speaker 1: that have happened like that, not just to them, to
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You put your that they were
Speaker 1: out there breaking the law, and so they put themselves
Speaker 1: in that position. You know, nobody had told them to
Speaker 1: go run dogs on October the one. That may be
Speaker 1: what they did, but that doesn't make it right. And
Speaker 1: and it it brings up a a incident or an
Speaker 1: opportunity or something tragic to happen. Tragic, something tragic did
Speaker 1: happen when the guy and the coon dog got killed.
Speaker 1: You know Number one, why right around in a car.
Speaker 1: They ain't got no breaks in the mountains. That that
Speaker 1: was one thing I took away from that. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was you know, if if he couldn't stop, why was
Speaker 1: he out there driving that thing? Anyway? That could have
Speaker 1: been a family spin the moon shin the you know,
Speaker 1: making moonshine. They wouldn't have been after him if they
Speaker 1: had not been making moonshin Now. You know, my dad,
Speaker 1: when before I was born, couldn't find a job in
Speaker 1: Southeast Arkansas. He went to Ipsilanti, Michigan and worked for
Speaker 1: Forward Motor Company up there on this Semon land because
Speaker 1: that's how he had to feed his family. He didn't
Speaker 1: he didn't stay at home and poached Yeah, in my
Speaker 1: or magic moonshine. That's a great love it brow. That's good.
Speaker 1: That's a good example. Your dad would have been about
Speaker 1: probably about in the same era as these guys. And
Speaker 1: but he which But my father had an absolute disdain
Speaker 1: for authority. He didn't like the police, and he got
Speaker 1: a whole family full of them. But which is another story.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you say, you you put yourself, you
Speaker 1: you put yourself in those kind of positions, and if
Speaker 1: you don't, a lot of that badness goes away. You know,
Speaker 1: I see some in my career. I've seen a lot
Speaker 1: of sadness and a lot of things that I wish
Speaker 1: I could I could not remember, but I know that
Speaker 1: they were the majority of the people that I saw
Speaker 1: do the most hideous things were also done some good
Speaker 1: in their life, you know, and they just got caught
Speaker 1: up in in a bad deal, in a bad situation
Speaker 1: and it didn't see a way out. And we're talking
Speaker 1: we're not talking about murdering folks were talking about killing turkeys,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I realized there's a heck of
Speaker 1: a difference. But right is right and wrong is wrong,
Speaker 1: And you make a choice and you put yourself there
Speaker 1: and they say the old saying is if you play
Speaker 1: stupid games, you'll win stupid prizes. So yeah, that's about
Speaker 1: my take on it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. I
Speaker 1: think it's a really strong point what she said that
Speaker 1: uh and and it and it's apples to apples saying
Speaker 1: my dad didn't have a job and he moved to
Speaker 1: Michigan and worked at the forward line. He didn't stay
Speaker 1: home and make moonshine and kill turkeys. I mean that
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a valid point, you know. So
Speaker 1: everything that's been said is right, and that's exactly why
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell the story because it's it's an
Speaker 1: interesting human story and if nothing else, it'll make us
Speaker 1: have discussions like this, which I think are valuable and
Speaker 1: it'll bring some you know there there there are there's
Speaker 1: value in looking back. I mean, like, if it was
Speaker 1: wrong to talk about bad stuff that happened, then we
Speaker 1: would have to shut down the entire century between eighteen
Speaker 1: hundred and nineteen hundred on every level of human life,
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't talk about it. Well, that happens to
Speaker 1: be one of my favorite periods of American history. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the market hunting and all the
Speaker 1: wild stuff that happened, And so we can look back
Speaker 1: in history and we can see stuff and we can
Speaker 1: learn from it. And this one it's a simple learn
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we're not condoned. And anybody go kill
Speaker 1: a bunch of turkeys and if you do your stupid Yeah,
Speaker 1: and if a guy did that today, I would, I
Speaker 1: mean I would, I mean out right just would be
Speaker 1: a selfish, egotistical jerk. I mean like there would be
Speaker 1: no place if a guy today. But but and again,
Speaker 1: this was a long time ago, and maybe that is
Speaker 1: fariseical of me to say that, but um, and I'm
Speaker 1: not condoned. I'm not saying that was good. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying and these guys had character traits that were valuable,
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm interested in looking at, because man,
Speaker 1: you can look at a bunch of people that did
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff right all the time and not
Speaker 1: have the tools that you need to be successful. Like
Speaker 1: we gotta look at a whole bunch of stuff. Everybody
Speaker 1: messed up, did stupid stuff, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. People are complex. I mean, that's the I
Speaker 1: think to me, that's the takeaway from that people and
Speaker 1: the whole story is that man, people are complex and
Speaker 1: they pull out complex emotions out of us. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think about all the the different people that I mean,
Speaker 1: even think about your dad, like you probably have all
Speaker 1: sorts of complicated feelings about him. You know, I'm just
Speaker 1: calling your dad out because he's not in the room.
Speaker 1: But think about your you know, like you probably have
Speaker 1: really positive feelings about him and really really negative ones
Speaker 1: as well. And you could say, my dad built this
Speaker 1: stuff in me and that was really good, and my
Speaker 1: dad built this stuff in me that it wasn't. And
Speaker 1: I think we've got a utrue right now that says, well,
Speaker 1: if there's anything bad, we're going to cancel the whole person.
Speaker 1: And I don't like that. I don't like that. I
Speaker 1: think that's really unhealthy. And I think the value of
Speaker 1: of what you did in this story. One of the
Speaker 1: things I appreciated about it is that you you kind
Speaker 1: of showed this complex picture of these people. He'll pull
Speaker 1: a gun on someone, and I don't feel like he
Speaker 1: told the best stories I've heard about them. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm talking about positive stories. I think there's some
Speaker 1: really good stories about these guys that didn't get told
Speaker 1: because they're kind of hard to trace back and tell,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think some of the reason that
Speaker 1: I find these men endearing is because some of those stories,
Speaker 1: and those are the first stories I heard, and like
Speaker 1: I didn't hear about the Turkey poach, and I just
Speaker 1: heard about this other stuff and those some of those
Speaker 1: are going to come out and the second podcast, So
Speaker 1: just just for those following along, there's there was a
Speaker 1: Genuine Outlaws Part one. There's gonna be a Genuine Outlaws
Speaker 1: Part two, which is going to be another biopiece on
Speaker 1: Louie Dell and Charlie. So it's just gonna be more stories,
Speaker 1: except this one they get it. It's it's less poaching
Speaker 1: and more just some kind of wild stories about these guys,
Speaker 1: which in some ways is just entertaining to hear. And
Speaker 1: it just paints a colorful picture. And I think that
Speaker 1: it it shows an image of this part of the world,
Speaker 1: and and and I just want to tell that story.
Speaker 1: The third podcast in Genuine Outlaws Part three is gonna
Speaker 1: be I don't want to say, because I'm uncertain who
Speaker 1: I've got. What happens in part four I've gotten three
Speaker 1: three people that are willing to talk and uh man,
Speaker 1: they're they're like high level people that want to comment
Speaker 1: on this very particular thing. Yeah, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's part of the interesting part about this is that
Speaker 1: there are people who want to talk who our position
Speaker 1: to be against these people, even even Jimmy, I mean
Speaker 1: the game Warton's were I was shocked at what Jimmy
Speaker 1: Marton says. And they will not talk to Clay unless
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we want to know that the family,
Speaker 1: these are good people. We want to know the family
Speaker 1: supportive of it. And it's just it speaks to their
Speaker 1: character that people care about what what they think. You know,
Speaker 1: one thing Jimmy said that I might have misunderstood it,
Speaker 1: and I didn't agree with it. I don't think Louis
Speaker 1: Dill and Charlie built this myth. They told facts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's like Bonnie and Clyde every bank robber,
Speaker 1: that every bank that was robbed was done by Bonnie
Speaker 1: and Clyde, so the story got bigger than it really was.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that's kind of what he meant, because well, Charlie,
Speaker 1: for sure, he was kind of a humble guy. A
Speaker 1: little bit I knew about him. I mean, he wouldn't
Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna go in lime Tree and Ragabat killing
Speaker 1: a bunch of turkeys at Well, I'm glad you said
Speaker 1: that because when I when I as soon as the
Speaker 1: podcast came out, Neil Taylor texted me and he said, uh,
Speaker 1: he said, Clay, they killed every turkey they ever claimed
Speaker 1: to have killed. He said, they liked to talk about it.
Speaker 1: They would like to brag a little bit, he said,
Speaker 1: but they were not liars. I felt like there was
Speaker 1: a u some journalistic integrity and me putting that in
Speaker 1: just because Jimmy Martin that's what he thought, and he
Speaker 1: had a right to have an opinion of whether they
Speaker 1: really killed as many as they did, and the tendency
Speaker 1: would be for the story to grow. Even though when
Speaker 1: he said it, I was thinking they killed every turkey
Speaker 1: they said. I really, I really believed it. But I
Speaker 1: want I felt like I owed it to Jimmy to
Speaker 1: put that in. That he did such a great job,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was he just made the story.
Speaker 1: But I think that one particular place, people like Andy
Speaker 1: and myself and other people would go no, if they
Speaker 1: told you they kill old thirty six turkeys. They killed
Speaker 1: thirty six turkeys. I mean that was part of the
Speaker 1: beauty of these guys. Yeah, yeah, I'm really glad you
Speaker 1: Just just for the listeners, can you guys tell us
Speaker 1: what the Lime Tree is? Landmark? Landmark restaurant. It used
Speaker 1: to be the Holland House. Andy Brown mentioned the halland
Speaker 1: now he said they need to go down to the
Speaker 1: Holland House. So we're gonna end this podcast on a
Speaker 1: high note. Okay, Gary Nucom hunted with Charlie Edwards one
Speaker 1: time when he first came into Mina. And I'll te
Speaker 1: you up a little bit with a little drama. So
Speaker 1: dad was a banker, a young banker and a small
Speaker 1: town with a bunch of little rug rat kids and
Speaker 1: came into Mina and uh, you know he was and
Speaker 1: he's got his reasons for why he went hunting with
Speaker 1: a guy. But you do know the full story of
Speaker 1: who this guy was. He was your customer, and and
Speaker 1: he invited you turkey hunting, and you're like, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go turkey. No, don't don't get too carried away turkey
Speaker 1: hunting in early March. I invited myself. Okay, well, tell
Speaker 1: the story. Well, uh I turkey hunting for about ten years,
Speaker 1: and I didn't you know, I killed a few turkeys,
Speaker 1: but I just wasn't getting it, you know. And uh
Speaker 1: I didn't want anybody to call a bird it. I
Speaker 1: just kind of wanted to do it on my own.
Speaker 1: And finally I just told a friend of mine, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, I think I need to go out with
Speaker 1: a really good turkey hunter. And he said, well, I'm
Speaker 1: hunting with Charlie. I'm on hunting this group with Charlie
Speaker 1: Edwards Saturday if you want to come home. And so, anyway,
Speaker 1: I talked to Charlie and he said, yeah, come on,
Speaker 1: I'll take you hunting. Had you met him up, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah I knew him. I knew him, but I can't
Speaker 1: get all those details exactly right. But there was a
Speaker 1: third guy in Bobe, a realtor. And uh So, anyway,
Speaker 1: friend of mine called me and said, uh, man, you
Speaker 1: can't go hunt with these guys and game wardens. They're
Speaker 1: gonna be think as thieves out there after him, and
Speaker 1: I go, well, I'm not gonna do anything wrong, which
Speaker 1: might have been stupid, I don't know, but I said,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do anything wrong. So I'm going and
Speaker 1: so I went, and we ended up killing three birds,
Speaker 1: and uh, one big bird gobbled, which I just thought
Speaker 1: about this on the way up here. One big bird
Speaker 1: gobbled and we didn't go after it, and I thought,
Speaker 1: why aren't we going after that bird? I'm thinking he
Speaker 1: was saving it. So we go over here where there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of younger birds and he calls in a
Speaker 1: whole flock, you know, and uh end up killing three
Speaker 1: of them. He does, he did, he did. They were
Speaker 1: killing on his side. Actually he killed two, and he
Speaker 1: was wanting me to kill him, and I go, you know,
Speaker 1: they're on your side. I can't get around, you know,
Speaker 1: blah blah, And so he goes, okay, bam bam, kills
Speaker 1: two and then uh, he goes, you may call him
Speaker 1: back in again. I go yeah, And so we moved
Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen yards on this knob. He calls again.
Speaker 1: Here they come again, and they come up on his side,
Speaker 1: and um, anyway, he goes, shoot. I go, man, I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't get a beat on him. And bam. So
Speaker 1: he's got three. There's a three bird limit in Arkansas.
Speaker 1: So you know, I go, you're gonna tag those birds
Speaker 1: and he goes, nah, and so I didn't want to
Speaker 1: be accomplished to some major crimes. I didn't say anything,
Speaker 1: but we went to the whichish so so anyway, I
Speaker 1: mean I just said, okay, you know, that's your your choice,
Speaker 1: and we go to the store to check it in
Speaker 1: there big fork and he, uh, he didn't sign them in,
Speaker 1: didn't have him tagged, had him in the back of
Speaker 1: the truck right in front of the store. In a
Speaker 1: game warden pulls up right at the front door. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm like, as much as I like Charlie, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of for the game wardens, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. I want to know, I want some of
Speaker 1: these birds for myself. And uh so guy comes in
Speaker 1: and Charlie just starts signing these birds in. Hey, how
Speaker 1: you doing there, game warden. And you know, meet my
Speaker 1: best friend here, Gary Nukeleman. This this realtort. You played interference,
Speaker 1: and you know, we just got the talk and the
Speaker 1: guy never went out and looked at the back of
Speaker 1: that truck and uh but it was just real fun.
Speaker 1: Charlie was real nice and polite, and you know, he
Speaker 1: could call like a crazy man. And I mean he
Speaker 1: had that big long, what thirty two inch barrel on
Speaker 1: that gun? Yeah, thirty, I asked Stony, it's thirty uh,
Speaker 1: thirty six maybe thirty six. I mean it's he called
Speaker 1: it a long time, long time. I mean that sucked.
Speaker 1: Will beat way out there. But the point of it,
Speaker 1: and the way I remember Dad telling that so many times,
Speaker 1: was that the game wardens could have caught him. The
Speaker 1: game warden didn't do and it wasn't Jimmy Markin it was.
Speaker 1: It wasn't Jimmy. It was a different game warden. And
Speaker 1: he just pulled right up in front, right close to
Speaker 1: Louis Delle's Charlie's truck and walked in and Charlie saw him.
Speaker 1: And if the game warden had just walked over to
Speaker 1: the back of the truck, he just would have seen
Speaker 1: untagged birds, not signed in because back then you had
Speaker 1: put a tag on it and signing in and so
Speaker 1: just the way it worked like it was just no
Speaker 1: big deal and it was kind of a fumble. It
Speaker 1: felt like, if they're trying to catch them, is that
Speaker 1: That's the way it appeared to me. So all the
Speaker 1: years they never got busted. Well wait till episode two
Speaker 1: wait till episode to Turkey, Honey, I don't think maybe earlier,
Speaker 1: well I will foreshadow they they have been, but they
Speaker 1: did get busted with the legal turkey getting early on
Speaker 1: when they were young. Why did you just that's not foreshadowing,
Speaker 1: that's like that's like jump there, like well, I mean
Speaker 1: I pretty much said it in the podcast, didn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's good. Or Isaac could just beat that
Speaker 1: whole thing out like three always everybody always got a
Speaker 1: big kick out of that story and they still do
Speaker 1: and mean that today that Gary knucoln went hunting with
Speaker 1: Charlie Edwards, okay kill and Charlie Kilter. Let me tell
Speaker 1: you well, and right here, the one interaction that I
Speaker 1: had with Charlie Edwards, like face to face, like where
Speaker 1: we're talking. The only time I remember talking to him.
Speaker 1: I must have been a teenager and I was at
Speaker 1: Big Fork and I was I cannot remember who I
Speaker 1: was hunting with. I was hunting somebody. We pull up
Speaker 1: to the Big Fork store and we're in our camo
Speaker 1: and it's Turkey season, and well there's Charlie Edwards and
Speaker 1: he's just we just kind of meet him and he's
Speaker 1: like I assume I do not remember this. I assume
Speaker 1: he's said, well, y'all do any good. And we talked
Speaker 1: about turkey hunting. And he has the long Tim in
Speaker 1: his truck, which is this giant gun. It's spray painted
Speaker 1: green when I when I saw it, it it was spray
Speaker 1: painted like a like a like a spring green. And
Speaker 1: he pulls the gun out and he says, look at this,
Speaker 1: and he hands me the long Tim and I'm holding
Speaker 1: it in the parking lot and he goes look down
Speaker 1: the barrel of that thing clay and the phraseology of it.
Speaker 1: And my young, non abstract thinking, childhood mind thought that
Speaker 1: was an odd way. Like I said, look down the
Speaker 1: barrel and he said yeah, And I says it loaded,
Speaker 1: and he said yeah, don't pull the trigger. He for
Speaker 1: real said that the gun was loaded, which was would
Speaker 1: have been illegal to driver, but he he said, and
Speaker 1: what he wanted me to do was just shoulder the
Speaker 1: gun and looked down the barrel. Well, I took the
Speaker 1: shot on the ground and look down the barrel. He's like,
Speaker 1: he's what he never said anything, but he had to
Speaker 1: have been just like kid. But I remember really question him.
Speaker 1: I said, look down there, just look down the barrel
Speaker 1: is it loaded? There's psychological studies that have been done
Speaker 1: on this phenomenon where you do something you know you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do just because someone say, yeah, he would have
Speaker 1: been like jump off the cliff would have been like
Speaker 1: really I was? I mean it was probably do that
Speaker 1: was I have a look down the barrel time like
Speaker 1: many a gobbler. You may be the only thing with
Speaker 1: a beard that lived through this. Oh hey, while we're closing. Um,
Speaker 1: Bargera's merch is all over. Bargery's hats are like for
Speaker 1: real in right now you can order real bar grease hats.
Speaker 1: I can stop getting them from China now. Yeah. That
Speaker 1: somebody ordered one of those knockoffs and it was pretty rough. Um.
Speaker 1: There's also the Acorn burgera shirt, which is my favorite.
Speaker 1: There's also an owl looks a whole lot like a
Speaker 1: land Bridge mustache. If you haven't seen this shirt, acre
Speaker 1: I was I was going to talk about. Um. It
Speaker 1: says a k E r in as an acorn the
Speaker 1: way that the country pronounces it. And there's a big,
Speaker 1: beautiful acren that's the shape of a man's head. Acorn
Speaker 1: has a beard and a giant mustache that says bear grease.
Speaker 1: This is an epic T shirt design it um, so
Speaker 1: you can get that. And then there's another cool T shirt.
Speaker 1: Saw that T shirt design scribbled on a legal pad
Speaker 1: at one point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is I design this,
Speaker 1: I design this. Do me a favorite, Go buy one
Speaker 1: where it proudly. Then there's a there's another shirt of
Speaker 1: a barred owl, a beautiful rendition of a barred owl,
Speaker 1: full eagle, spread eagle, um spread owl, and it and
Speaker 1: it and it says like a quote and it says
Speaker 1: barred owl. You know. I love it, like someone said
Speaker 1: something and you put their names. Yeah, and it says
Speaker 1: it pronounces it phonetically. And then there's another beautiful shirt
Speaker 1: of a jar of bear grease that says bear grease
Speaker 1: and the lists all the different uh uses of bear
Speaker 1: grease underneath it. So it's pretty cool shirts. So, and
Speaker 1: then there's the Gary Newcomb Believer hats. Dad's name is
Speaker 1: actually on the web site signature. It says inspired by
Speaker 1: Gary Newcomb hat. They sold those. They sold out of
Speaker 1: those in like a day, but I think they're getting
Speaker 1: them back. Um. So hey, great conversation, Thank you all
Speaker 1: so much. You're welcome. Two th