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Speaker 1: Yeah. My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production

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Speaker 1: of the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render,

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Speaker 1: where we render down, dive deeper, and looked behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f

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Speaker 1: HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear

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Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the places we explore.

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Speaker 1: Remember that in Deliverance when I got come around the

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Speaker 1: corner and there he said, who's picking a banger here?

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Speaker 1: No story, You've never seen the movie in my life.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen Deliverance either. I was not allowed

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Speaker 1: to victorious scenes in that movie that I'd want to

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Speaker 1: hear about it. Yeah, did you ever see that movie? Down?

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Speaker 1: When did that come out? Reynolds Probably seventies, Slate seventies,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it. I think it probably? Yes, MT seventy one.

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Speaker 1: It was early s early Okay, yeah, I would say

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Speaker 1: it was pretty early. I don't know what. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a this is an interesting topic of conversation we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have today. Yeah it is. Yeah, listen, I want

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Speaker 1: so what we do on the Bargeras Render. If you're

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Speaker 1: not familiar, if you've just this is your first podcast,

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Speaker 1: we have. There are two styles of podcasts under the

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Speaker 1: Bargrease banner. So we have our what we just call

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Speaker 1: straight up barg Rease, which is our documentary style podcast,

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Speaker 1: which is gonna be multiple interviews telling the story, doctored

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Speaker 1: up music, soundscapes, really polished and produced. That's that. Then

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Speaker 1: we have the Bargrease Render, which is a group of

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Speaker 1: us are five of us here right now that are

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about the previous week's podcast, dissect it, talk

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Speaker 1: about high points, low points, and so that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: So that's what this is. I want to start off

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Speaker 1: with you. Did you know that before Brent got here

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Speaker 1: or when he When he got here, we kind of

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Speaker 1: started talking a little bit and he said, you know, Clay,

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Speaker 1: I kind of d about the podcast and I said,

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Speaker 1: who whoa, whoa, whoa. I said, save that energy for

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Speaker 1: the Render. I'm a whirlwind of emotion right now, really

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. Good. So what I want to say

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Speaker 1: is I want you to be absolutely free to say

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Speaker 1: whatever you think because nobody's gonna judge me. No, this

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Speaker 1: is ah, this is a safe place. Okay, good nobody else.

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Speaker 1: But no, it's not like the other podcast where we

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Speaker 1: were really limited, right, listen, this is what happens inside

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Speaker 1: of social structures. Okay, so this is a social structure.

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Speaker 1: You guys obviously are my friends. Want of you is

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Speaker 1: my wife? Want of you is my father? Prince not

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Speaker 1: related to me? Isn't needed? But you you kind of

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Speaker 1: build a bias of positivity towards something, or you want

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Speaker 1: to spend something so it doesn't hurt somebody's feelings, do you?

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Speaker 1: You guys can't fully be trusted, and people are going

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Speaker 1: to be too nice that they're not if they were inclined,

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Speaker 1: if they were so inclined to be like man Clay,

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Speaker 1: I really think you missed it on this one. Like

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Speaker 1: I would want you to say that and just tell

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Speaker 1: me why. I mean, that does mean no good to

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Speaker 1: have friends that don't tell me the truth. Now all

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Speaker 1: the other people that are listening that are my friends,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. But the wounds of

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Speaker 1: a friend can be trusted, right, I was a joke.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what people think, and I could

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Speaker 1: say things right now. I think that would guide what

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Speaker 1: you're gonna say in ten minutes from now? What do

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Speaker 1: you mean like leading us? I just pe it happens

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Speaker 1: all the time. People just they they are led into

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Speaker 1: a tone of good. Not today, Dad can be can

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Speaker 1: be led like a little sheep. Is sporting his regular gote,

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Speaker 1: but his mustache is missing. Yeah, should he be wearing

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Speaker 1: one of the mustaches? Yeah, yeah, we got of. There's

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Speaker 1: even some gray ones in there. So today on the

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Speaker 1: render we have Brent Reeves. Maybe you look a sharp

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Speaker 1: Brent you got I would say you have on a

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Speaker 1: moderately worn pair of overall stone washedid washed overall. Um.

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Speaker 1: I noticed that you're running your crocs and air conditioned mode,

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Speaker 1: no socks correct, and you have a beautiful bear grease

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Speaker 1: hat on. You actually look really good. I mean it

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Speaker 1: looks good. After after that introduction, I can hardly wait

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Speaker 1: to hear what I've got to say. Hey, let me

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Speaker 1: say I think that Brent might have the shine of

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Speaker 1: a winner. He is that what it is? Well, since

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Speaker 1: you brought that up, Yeah, and tell us would you win? Well,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what It took. Took a whale to

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Speaker 1: a coon hunt over in East Arkansas at Crockett's Bluff,

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Speaker 1: and we went out on his second U K C hunt,

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Speaker 1: And my gosh, we wanted want a cast. He did good,

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Speaker 1: did good, and I got I got pictures from Alexis

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Speaker 1: after the win. So what Brent did is he went

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Speaker 1: to a competition coon hunt, which described the mood, the scene,

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Speaker 1: the vibe. Man, it's a it was a community center

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Speaker 1: over and Crocott's Bluff. It's a real old community and

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Speaker 1: there's there's no township or anything there. It's just a community,

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Speaker 1: a community of people. There's nothing as far as the

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Speaker 1: city or anything like that. But everybody got there. And

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Speaker 1: you registers in uk C event and you have to

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Speaker 1: be there by a certain time. You know, pay you intry,

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Speaker 1: you gotta be a member. You good dogs gotta be registered.

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Speaker 1: And I drew out with another guy, uh hunting a

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Speaker 1: walker dog, and one guy hunting a blue tick and

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Speaker 1: one guy hunting the black and tan and great guys,

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Speaker 1: great fellowship. Sportsmanship was good. I didn't find my coon.

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Speaker 1: One of the guys I was competing against found it.

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Speaker 1: He said, said, there's a coon right there. You know.

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Speaker 1: He he didn't have to say anything. He could have

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Speaker 1: just kept his mouth shut and that tree would have been,

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Speaker 1: according to the rules, would have been a circle tree.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, honesty and integrity prevailed and it was good.

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Speaker 1: That's good. It was really good. So Wayland won his

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Speaker 1: second cast win and and did he win the whole hunter?

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Speaker 1: Just the cast, No, just that cast. There was there

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Speaker 1: was not an overall winter. We had an early round

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Speaker 1: which started around nine o'clock and then in the the late

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Speaker 1: round started at midnight. So it was, you know, a

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Speaker 1: lately long night. But but we had had a great time. Good.

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Speaker 1: I went hunting one time this week and uh it

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Speaker 1: took a fern in my new pup hoot and uh

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Speaker 1: they trede one time. Didn't see the coon. I'm not

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Speaker 1: fully convinced it was there. But we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: try to do a little springtime hunting this year. Oh good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fixing to get really good. The little ones to

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Speaker 1: start when they come down everywhere. Brent saw a deer.

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Speaker 1: He's sent me a video Dad of the deer completely

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Speaker 1: submerged under the water except for its neck and head. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I saw that social media too, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah

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Speaker 1: you think that you think she was do you think

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Speaker 1: she got scared here in whale and tree that close

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Speaker 1: to her and just bedded down? It was Michael's dog

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Speaker 1: actually is right there beside her and no on that.

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Speaker 1: That deer was there ten minutes before the dog came

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Speaker 1: in there. We just happened to be standing there, big.

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Speaker 1: There's a bunch of deer waters up belove there where

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Speaker 1: we hunt where Michael caught that coon and we watched him.

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Speaker 1: That's eight feet underwater right now, well yeah inside that

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Speaker 1: live but there were where we were at. So I've

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Speaker 1: watched our friend Michael Roseman catch two coons by hand. Yeah, carry, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we saw the deer. We actually Michael shouted light up

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Speaker 1: in there and he said, what's that And I said

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Speaker 1: that a coon. He said, no, it's a deer. Look

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Speaker 1: at it and you could see. I mean it was

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Speaker 1: like a periscope death just read it from the neck up,

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Speaker 1: sticking up out of the water and you'd bear to

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Speaker 1: see her hand in But she was bedded right there.

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Speaker 1: There was no mosquitoes, buffalo nets weren't weren't bad. It

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Speaker 1: was cool. So, I mean, I don't know. I haven't

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Speaker 1: decided if I feel like she was hiding because she

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Speaker 1: saw you guys and just hunkered down the water, or

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Speaker 1: if she you think she was actually bedded down. But man,

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Speaker 1: I have you've come, you've walked up on deer before

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Speaker 1: the oaks treat close to h they just they don't

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Speaker 1: do nothing, They just lay there. So I just I

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Speaker 1: have it's hard for me to believe that she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have walked off, that she would have just hunkered down

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Speaker 1: in that water if she hadn't already been there. Weird

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Speaker 1: though it was pretty cool. Well, I was just getting

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Speaker 1: introductions Misty Dookam, Hey, good, Yeah, you haven't done anything

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Speaker 1: like wildly wild in the outdoors, not have you? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I got my garden going. Yeah, mrs Oh.

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Speaker 1: Misty was on the Meat Eat Live show in Billings,

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Speaker 1: Montana last week. It was a big deal. A lot

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Speaker 1: of fun. Yeah, a lot of fun. I saw that

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Speaker 1: on Instagram. That was intriguing. I'd like to have seen more.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately that show won't be broadcast on the Lead Eater

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Speaker 1: podcast feed A live show. That's why you gotta go man. Hey,

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Speaker 1: they were There were at least eleven d people there,

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Speaker 1: as I understood it, maybe more, and everybody that came

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Speaker 1: got one of Steve Ronella's books Raising Kids in the

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Speaker 1: Inside World Indoor World. Yeah, and so the podcast was

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Speaker 1: structured around raising kids and the outdoors to be engaged

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Speaker 1: inside of the outdoor. So it's pretty cool and that's

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Speaker 1: why probably why they had Misty on there. Uh and me.

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Speaker 1: We have kids and uh so that was fun full

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Speaker 1: incredible credentials. Yeah, we have kids. We have produced you

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Speaker 1: want to find it wasn't a podcast. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: It was a live show. It's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: Um Chester Floyd played music at the beginning and end.

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Speaker 1: Seth fleshed I'm just standing there for you. If you

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Speaker 1: got board listen to you could just watch. Oh this

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Speaker 1: is a So after the after the event, there was

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Speaker 1: people that were in this auditorium that worked there and

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Speaker 1: they come in after the show and clean the seats

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Speaker 1: and stuff. And uh, there was an older lady that

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Speaker 1: came up and she said, uh, she said, not to me,

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Speaker 1: but to one of our guys. She said, what was

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Speaker 1: that woman doing with those coon hides? I thought she said,

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Speaker 1: what was that woman doing with all that meat? Well, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what she said. But she thought Seth was a

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Speaker 1: lady because Seth had big not really, but he had

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Speaker 1: this big apron on. It looked like a dress you

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Speaker 1: just walked in and he was wearing a dress. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, We thought that was We thought that was

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Speaker 1: that was funny. Josh, you've been fly fishing a little bit.

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Speaker 1: It's been really really wet here. It has been raining

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Speaker 1: like crazy inches every day, and so I tried to

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Speaker 1: do a little creek fishing yesterday but came up empty handed.

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Speaker 1: But we went a couple of weeks ago to the

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Speaker 1: White River. Christie caught up brown tea, and you caught

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Speaker 1: me some rainbow t cat, Missy some rainbow trout home,

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Speaker 1: so I claimed, Missy grilled him. Dad, you've been doing

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Speaker 1: anything outdoors fun? You know? We took a little four

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Speaker 1: wheeler trip up in northwest Arkansas. I put the old

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Speaker 1: can am on the hill they call Highway to Heaven. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it did pretty good? Was it straight up? Pretty much?

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Speaker 1: We used to This was in Pope County. Uh actually

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Speaker 1: it was in Pope County, but it was a place

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Speaker 1: we used to be. We used well poke what we

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Speaker 1: used to jeep there. And as we were traversing this area,

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Speaker 1: someone said, that's the hill We used to have trouble

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Speaker 1: climbing in jeeps in these new side Besides, I mean

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Speaker 1: they just on a scale of one to tend steepest

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Speaker 1: you've ever done how does it rank? Oh? Um, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't at scary in that when you got to the

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Speaker 1: top there were really big rocks. You know, I thought

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Speaker 1: I'd broke an axle on it, but it didn't. And uh,

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Speaker 1: that's a hard that's a hard question because there's so

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Speaker 1: many different type hills. You know, some hills you've got

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Speaker 1: places where maybe you might flip over. You've got some

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Speaker 1: hills that you hit at a high speed. You got

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Speaker 1: some hills you crawled. This was kind of a all hill,

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Speaker 1: but it was not a big deal. But out of

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Speaker 1: a group of about ten vehicles, there were only two

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Speaker 1: of us that tried it. Oh really yeah, so and

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Speaker 1: we both made it. It was fun. Never come over backwards,

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Speaker 1: have you? No? Never? That's amazing. Well, on a full

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Speaker 1: wheeler one time, just playing around, I had one come over,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't even you know, it was just it

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Speaker 1: was just a freak deal and you got off. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. It was one of the first clutch machines

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Speaker 1: I'd ever driven, and I was just driving up, stopping

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Speaker 1: and then rolling back and somehow I didn't do the

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Speaker 1: clutch right flipped over. I remember, I remember when I

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Speaker 1: first started hunting with y'all. I didn't grow up on

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Speaker 1: four wheelers or anything. And Gary let me take his

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Speaker 1: four wheeler out, and I remember I got I tried

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Speaker 1: to cross the log lengthways and got high centered on

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Speaker 1: the axles and the look of the skull when he

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Speaker 1: came around the court, How could you have even let

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Speaker 1: this happen? And he was like, get off? Did you

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Speaker 1: know that there's some I tried back in the former

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Speaker 1: Bear Hunting Magazine podcast days when we could just we

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Speaker 1: just talked about whatever we wanted. I was gonna have

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Speaker 1: dad and John Mesco, whose dad's best buddy down amna

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Speaker 1: um tell some stories of them. Mesco more than once,

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Speaker 1: like they had the haul him out of the woods

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Speaker 1: and an ambulance or or or I mean he broke

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Speaker 1: his leg one time while y'all are out in his

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Speaker 1: shoulder one time, and his shoulder one time crawling up

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Speaker 1: stuff and Mesco flipped their way. And then I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you remember, but we were riding with some

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Speaker 1: guys one time, and uh, you know, it was pretty

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Speaker 1: it was pretty crazy ride and we just knew somebody

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Speaker 1: was gonna get hurt, and sure enough, this guy did.

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Speaker 1: And when the ambulance came. I went to get the ambulance,

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Speaker 1: and the two ladies were driving the ambulance and they said,

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Speaker 1: you can't drive an ambulance back there, and I go

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Speaker 1: scoot over and they let me drive this brand new

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Speaker 1: you know. But I got in this brand new ambulance

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Speaker 1: and I drove it. If you know Wolfpin Gap. I

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Speaker 1: drove that sucker way back in the Wolfpin Gap and

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Speaker 1: when I stopped, it was just boiling over with smoke.

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Speaker 1: But the guy lived, I mean, he was really What

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Speaker 1: happened on that wreck, Well, he just hit a jump

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Speaker 1: wrong and and the thing flipped on him. Instead of

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Speaker 1: him doing anything to correct it, he just hung onto

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Speaker 1: the handlebars and it just drove his head straight into

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Speaker 1: me and on a side on the four winner. Yeah, wasn't.

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Speaker 1: It's a long time ago, and Mesco knew what to do,

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Speaker 1: and he you know, and I was definitely going to

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Speaker 1: go get the ambulances. You drove that ambulance all the

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Speaker 1: way back in the Yeah. Well, the other time that

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Speaker 1: they are one of the times they were riding and

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Speaker 1: it was just Dad and John and John Flips gets

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Speaker 1: in the rack. You can go into details or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but they had to make a splint and splint John's

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Speaker 1: leg up and interesting him being a doctor, We're going

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Speaker 1: down this steel. It looked like a cow's face. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was just straight down. But we didn't have

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Speaker 1: any choice. We got back in there, the woods got

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Speaker 1: lost and John. I had John right on the back

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Speaker 1: of my I said, John, we both had a brand

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Speaker 1: new side. Besides, we don't have function foilers fowilers, And

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Speaker 1: I said, you right on the back of my rack

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Speaker 1: because this is like driving off of bluff. So he

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Speaker 1: got on my rack road down on. So I started

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Speaker 1: running back up the hill to get on his rack.

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Speaker 1: But he thought I can do this. Well, he got

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Speaker 1: halfway down and it didn't behave the way it was

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Speaker 1: supposed to or the way he thought it was gonna behave,

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Speaker 1: and it just it just like pitched him out into

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Speaker 1: the air fifteen feet up and when he landed, it

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Speaker 1: just snapped his leg. And then that that side beside

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Speaker 1: a four wheeler just kept chasing him down the hill

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Speaker 1: and it went five times. And when it got to

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Speaker 1: the bottom, he's sitting next to a tree in the

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Speaker 1: side besides, like right here, and it never touched him

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Speaker 1: except the rubber. But to get him out of the woods.

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Speaker 1: He goes, okay, cut six little sticks about the size

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Speaker 1: of my thumb, six inches long, get your tarp out

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Speaker 1: of the back, give me your duct tape. I had

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Speaker 1: everything and he just made a cast for it. Was

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Speaker 1: it his lower leg like a sin. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: he rode my side. My wad are out side saddle

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Speaker 1: with all that stuff on. It took us about two hours,

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Speaker 1: three hours to get him to the hospital. When you

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Speaker 1: hear that Endian the Jones music start playing, you need

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Speaker 1: to stop whatever you do. Turn everything office. You can

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Speaker 1: cut that out anyway. That's that's wild man. Um four

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Speaker 1: Weather Stories. I wasn't planning to go there, but we did. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that so this podcast, okay man, it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: Josh and Britain have emotions connected to the podcast that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting Josh coming in and saying, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: a I'm a I'm a whirlwind of emotion. You've got

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Speaker 1: conflicting emotions. Yeah, yeah, Because I think the statement that

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Speaker 1: that caught me the most was Andy Brown when he

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Speaker 1: was talking about Louis Dale and he said he didn't

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Speaker 1: do everything right, but he did a lot of stuff right,

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Speaker 1: and that there's a juxtaposition there. That's like I think

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Speaker 1: I feel the same way that you do, Clay. It's

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Speaker 1: like there's so many good qualities and it's like does

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Speaker 1: one cancel out the other? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: And so it leaves you in this quandary of like

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Speaker 1: and and not that you have to in your life

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Speaker 1: support or not support someone. But you know, I I've

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Speaker 1: known lots of people in my life obviously, as everybody has.

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Speaker 1: But uh, you know I I remember when we first

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Speaker 1: moved to Texas when I was a kid, there was

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Speaker 1: a there was a guy. We we lived in this

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Speaker 1: where we were poor. We lived in this little mobile

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Speaker 1: home outside of this uh Junkyard, and I thought it

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Speaker 1: was the greatest thing in the world because I would

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Speaker 1: go wander around Junkyard. It was like heaven for me.

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Speaker 1: But the guy that owned owned it, his name was

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Speaker 1: von Arney. And I remember von Arnie. You'd go in

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Speaker 1: his house and I remember, and I was like six,

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Speaker 1: maybe six at this time. Well his his daughter with

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Speaker 1: babysitting me while my mom was working and go in

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Speaker 1: the house. And they had to trust your They had

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Speaker 1: they had lots of mechanics and stuff that would come

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Speaker 1: in and like every night they would just have ten

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Speaker 1: fifteen people at the dinner table. His wife would just

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Speaker 1: make enough food for a big group. But I remember

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Speaker 1: von Arnie, and I remember like he was always real

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Speaker 1: kind to me, but then I would see him deal

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Speaker 1: with people, and I knew everybody kind of knew, like

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Speaker 1: you love von but you can't quite trust Vaughan, you know,

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Speaker 1: and everybody called him von Arni, von Arni, Hey, von Arni. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, but I remember that same kind of feeling

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Speaker 1: about this guy, like I really like him, but there's

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Speaker 1: something about him that's like you just can't get settled

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Speaker 1: about it. And I, you know, listening to the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it kind of made me think of those kind of

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Speaker 1: feelings about about Louis Dellen. Von Arney was a crook.

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Speaker 1: He was a con man. I think the thing about

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Speaker 1: these two guys, you don't condone what they did. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just wrong, period. There's just no two ways to

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Speaker 1: skin that cat. But they did so many good things

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Speaker 1: that the good people didn't even do. I mean, they

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Speaker 1: helped people that no one even knew about until the funeral.

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Speaker 1: They did things that were way beyond the normal human activities.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were just so you can't spend it

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Speaker 1: where what they did was right. It's just not. But

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Speaker 1: but why do we like them? And the reason we

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Speaker 1: like them is because they love people. They helped people,

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Speaker 1: they treated people right. I would I would come completely

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Speaker 1: agree with you because I think that that in a sense,

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Speaker 1: some of the like the specifically the poaching, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of that was probably cultural. You know, from

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Speaker 1: the way they grew up. You know, they took meat,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you know there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: distrust of the government, so you know, game and fish.

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Speaker 1: Coming in and saying you can harvest x number of

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Speaker 1: deer and x number of turkeys is like, this is

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Speaker 1: my my country. You know, you don't you can't tell

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Speaker 1: me what to do in my country. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I totally agree. You know, it made me think about

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Speaker 1: the scripture where it talks about when you give, you know,

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Speaker 1: don't don't need to be recognized for giving. And you know,

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Speaker 1: thinking about all the people that they helped that nobody

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Speaker 1: knew about but them until the funeral, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think those are there's some very commendable traits. It

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Speaker 1: didn't do everything right, but they did a lot of

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Speaker 1: things right. What do you think, Brent. It was a

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Speaker 1: struggle for me. You know, I've been a in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement for thirty one years and I have all has

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Speaker 1: had the mindset that if I cla if I arrested

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Speaker 1: you for something and you played not guilty and we

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Speaker 1: went to trial and you were found guilty, I always thought, well,

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Speaker 1: let's go back and charging perjury because he's obviously lying

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Speaker 1: because he did it. Twelve people said he did. I

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Speaker 1: found it very intriguing. I did not find him endearing

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Speaker 1: at all, but no, not even a little bit. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I also don't know him. I don't have the

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Speaker 1: background that that Gary has, that Clay has, that you

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Speaker 1: have from from being around these folks. But it was, um.

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Speaker 1: It's hard for me, having been in situations where people

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Speaker 1: were good, people make poor decisions in the heat of

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Speaker 1: the moment. It's hard for me to find an endearing

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Speaker 1: quality in someone who leaves the house with the purpose

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Speaker 1: of doing something that ain't right. So the confrontation and

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Speaker 1: and you know, I've said it on here before. If

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Speaker 1: you want two different stories about an incident, get two

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Speaker 1: people who said they were eyewitnesses to it, because people

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Speaker 1: see things different. But to have uh, the internet, where

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Speaker 1: the where it was a game warden or park ranger

401
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: or whatever it was who was threatened over over the dog.

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Speaker 1: When you put on when you put someone's you point

403
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Speaker 1: a weapon at somebody there, you put someone's life equal

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Speaker 1: to that of an animal. You know, it's life is precious, man.

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Speaker 1: And I have seen so much stuff that people wished

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Speaker 1: and that he's the moment they wished they hadn't hadn't done.

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Speaker 1: And I can't imagine taking someone's life over an animal

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Speaker 1: like that, if it ever happened, if it happened, if

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Speaker 1: that's the way it happened, you know it was. It

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Speaker 1: was just a struggle for me to to see that

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Speaker 1: or to try to rationalize. That's why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on it, because your worldview would be

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Speaker 1: coming from a career of law enforcement. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: the one place. What you wouldn't know is that I

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Speaker 1: went to multiple people not to get permission. I got

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Speaker 1: permission and the blessing from the family. That's who I

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Speaker 1: went and said, hey, I'm gonna do this. I bounced

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Speaker 1: this off many people, um law enforcement people to some

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Speaker 1: of them people in in uh in government positions, just

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Speaker 1: kind of like, Hey, what what would you think if

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Speaker 1: I did this and it You know, you couldn't tell

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Speaker 1: the whole story, and you couldn't. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: exactly what the story was. I mean I kind of

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Speaker 1: grew up around these guys, but I didn't know the

425
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: full story like I do now or more of the

426
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: full story. Did you meet them clear? Oh yeah, I

427
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 1: would have known them. I would have just been a kid.

428
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: Uh uh. And I'll reveal later in the podcast and

429
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: I might tell you now because I don't think I'm

430
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: gonna include it. But like the times I met them,

431
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: like we went to a we went to Louis Dell's

432
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: catfish shootout body. I remember going to their house and fish.

433
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: They hosted a big bowshoot and Louis Dell had a

434
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: catfish farm. Um, and then you would just see him around.

435
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: I knew who they were, and I knew Stony and

436
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: I worked with Charlie's son once for several months on

437
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: a Weldon gig um. When you're when you're a builder, yeah,

438
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: when I was a builder. I think the story was

439
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: I think the telling the story is important for people

440
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: to know, and I think it was. It was good.

441
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: There was another thing that bothered me a little bit,

442
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: and it was some folks that commented after you've released

443
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: it on social media of that even after I know

444
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: of twice, if not three times, you said this is

445
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: not glorifying or condoning what they did, and they were that,

446
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, we're kind of taking a back that you

447
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: would would talk about this. You know that they kind

448
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: of tried to throw some shade on you. And I

449
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: want to say this right now, I don't know anybody

450
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: then the last couple of years, during deer season, if

451
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: it was this year or last year, whenever it was,

452
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: they had a world class whitetail and not one for Arkansas,

453
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: but won a world class whitetail in this part of

454
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: the world. There was only a few feet inside a

455
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: piece of property that Clay didn't have permission to hunt,

456
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: and he let that deer walk off and he never

457
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: seen him since, and he was by hisself, and there

458
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: was no camera and there was no witness. Those guys

459
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: would have shot that, dear, I don't know, and I'm

460
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 1: not saying that I would have either, but I know

461
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: that you didn't, and I know the purpose behind this

462
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: was not to glorify what they were doing, but tell

463
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: a good story, and it is an incredible story that

464
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: and that brings up a great point for me to

465
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: and you can help me work through this, because for real,

466
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't entirely have it all worked out exactly why

467
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell this story other than much of

468
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: the well, all the topics in this podcast are going

469
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: to be things that I am deeply intrigued by. I

470
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: mean that that's that's the barometer, like where is my interest?

471
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: Me and Dad and Scott Brown and and everybody that's

472
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: down in Mina. Oh, all you gotta do to strike

473
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: up a conversation with somebody is say something about Louis

474
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Dell and Charlie. We all want to talk about them,

475
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: we all. I mean, I have no shame in saying

476
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm deeply intrigued by these guys and not. And it

477
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: wasn't because they were outlaws. It was the paradox that

478
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: they were outlaws with with with game Warden. And you're

479
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: gonna see, you know, Louis Dell was a moonshiner, illegally

480
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: making moonshine and stuff. But even inside of that, you'll

481
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: hear the story and you'll kind of be like, Okay,

482
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: but they were, and the way Dad said it was,

483
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: they did a lot of things that the squeaky clean

484
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: people that never killed an illegal turkey wouldn't do. And

485
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: and that's where, well there's value in that well and

486
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: and it doesn't. It's so it's not it's just the

487
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: story I was interested in telling. And that's why in

488
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: the very beginning I said, don't blame me if you're

489
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: endeared to these guys. But also you get to make

490
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: a choice. And I totally respect what you're saying, Brant,

491
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: because it's not like I mean, yeah, we I mean

492
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: truly disdain breaking game laws. I'll turn you in and

493
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: a flash for bake breaking a game law, you know,

494
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it gets it's it's um. I don't know

495
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: if it's if it's braggadocious or or or what it

496
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: is to be able to if they killed a quarter

497
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: of what they were accused of, but you know, it's

498
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: a selfish way to look at it, you know, because

499
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: they're the game laws are set there for everybody, and

500
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: when they if they don't apply to everybody, that they

501
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: don't work, you know. And I mean you look at

502
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: where we are right now, Mr Charlie and Mr Louis

503
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: Dale didn't cause us to you know, have low Turkey

504
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: numbers now, But what would that be down there if

505
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: if that hadn't taken place. Who knows. That's a micro

506
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: way to look at that as far as that area

507
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: that that they're from. But it was just, um, I

508
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: just think it was a selfish way to look at it.

509
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: You know, I agree with everything you're saying, uh, but

510
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: there's another side you being law enforcement. I came into

511
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: the hunting world where all I knew was quill hunting

512
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: from my dad, and I do I didn't like it

513
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: because he was such a crazy I mean, he just

514
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: hunted all the time. I mean, you know, he just

515
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: he not all the time, but when he went, it

516
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: was it was work. I go, man, I don't want

517
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 1: any part of this. So I had nothing to do

518
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: with a hunting world until I got twenty six, and

519
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: so I was introduced to bow hunting and I immediately

520
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: fell in love with it. And I got to watching

521
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: people and I saw nobody. Now take this literal, I'm

522
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: telling you like I saw it. I knew nobody that

523
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't kill an illegal deer, and I'm like in a

524
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: state of shock. I'm not gonna do that. I didn't

525
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: have uncles that taught me that. I didn't have a

526
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: dad that taught me that. Now, if you run up

527
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: against Josh, he's a city boy out enjoying honting, you know,

528
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: two or three times a year. Now, he's not gonna

529
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: kill anything illegal. He read the regulations and just did

530
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: what it said. Yeah. Yeah, But the die hard hunters,

531
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm telling you from my perspective, you got to keep

532
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: that in mind. My perspective, they all killed illegal stuff.

533
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: So where do you draw the line. I killed one person,

534
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: I kill fifty people. I mean, you're killing stuff. It's illegal,

535
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: And where is it bad. It's bad with one, it's

536
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: bad with ten, it's bad with thirty. These guys took

537
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: their bad ways and turn it in into a game.

538
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, you know whether you like

539
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: that or not. But but a lot of people, well

540
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are real hardcore kill stuff.

541
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: So when I was talking to one of the law

542
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: enforcement guys, and I won't say his name, but he

543
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: kind of dissected a little bit of me with with

544
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: of the podcast, and he said, he said, Clay, there

545
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: are not old time poachers like there used to be,

546
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Martin said it too, there's a little bit

547
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: of a potential. Well, I'm not justifying and I don't

548
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: have to qualify that I'm not justifying their actions. But

549
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,479
Speaker 1: every time we look into history and see something that

550
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: went on and then put today's value system on that thing,

551
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that what they did was right. Then

552
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm saying. But it is different. And

553
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: what what Dad's saying compares to what Jimmy Martin said

554
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: and what this other law enforcement guy that I said

555
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: that I spoke with, he said, Clay, things are not

556
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: like they used to be. He said, the old time

557
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: poachers are are pretty much gone. And and what he

558
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: meant by that was used to you could go poaching,

559
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: or you can you go hunting and illegally kill something

560
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: and you had to go home to a landline phone

561
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: to call in the game warden. Anymore, we have cell phones,

562
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: we have self service. It's just much more difficult to

563
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: hide stuff. You send a picture. So partly law enforcement

564
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: methods I think have gotten better, but also it's just

565
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: culturally not except there's the exception. You know there's somebody

566
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 1: out there and probably like, yeah, I used to do that.

567
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: But these character character types like Loui, Dell and Charlie,

568
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: actually we're fairly common. Like I was talking to my friend, Um,

569
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: I'll say his name, and he said that he knew

570
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: some guys in a state and he said, Clay, they

571
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: tried to kill a turkey for every year of their age,

572
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: and they did it till they were forty. Oh my gosh,

573
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: every season. So I was kind of surprised by that

574
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 1: because you know, you kind of think that, oh, these

575
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: outlaws are probably as good as they come, or you know,

576
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: is is notorious as they come, kill as much. And

577
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: I told you it's the story. He listened to it

578
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: and he was like, yeah, I knew some guys like that.

579
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: And it was in a state that had incredible turkey populations,

580
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: and it was in the a part of the world

581
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: that revers turkey hunting and um, and these guys were

582
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: just wearing them out and they were basically doing the

583
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: same thing as lou and Charley. They were. They were

584
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: getting dropped off and hiding guns. I mean, that's kind

585
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: of the norm. Um. The other reason that I did

586
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: this is I part of what makes um light bright

587
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: is darkness. I mean it's like we have built such

588
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: a system and it's so deeply ingrained inside of me.

589
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: Not that I do everything perfect, I've I've broke game

590
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: laws before, but there and I'm gonna tell at him

591
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: on the next party. They can go back to the

592
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: Arkansas Journal. Yeah you find original, Yeah yeah, yeah, um.

593
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: But I think it helps to see the big picture,

594
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: and like I envisioned maybe some people new to hunting,

595
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: like like you Dad, that you said when you first

596
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: started big game hunting, you'd You've grown up doing some hunting,

597
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: but big game hunting, and you were like, well, those

598
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: are the regulations. Everybody obeys the rules, right, And then

599
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: you got in there and we're like nobody okay, And

600
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: that's just the way it was. I like the way

601
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: Andy said it at one time when he said Louis

602
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: Delle turned his dogs out in October one. He was

603
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: like he was like, he's like laying out of his

604
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: chair and he said, that's just the way it happened. Okay,

605
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was right, you know. Anyway, point being,

606
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: this is part of the culture that we're coming out

607
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: of that I think we're doing a good job of

608
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: saying we shouldn't do. Well, I'll tell you what this

609
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: what this law enforcement guy told me. He said, the

610
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: big time poachers of today. He said, there ultra secret

611
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: you don't see him on the internet. Guy's posting stuff

612
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: on the internet. Get caught. They're gonna get caught. But

613
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 1: there are some people that are like high level, high

614
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,959
Speaker 1: level poachers that you just don't hear about, you don't

615
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: know about, but are killing an incredible amount of stuff. So, Misty,

616
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: what did you think. Well, it's it's so interesting to

617
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: hear people, I mean to hear different perspectives, to even

618
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: here that there are different perspectives. I'm just listening to y'all,

619
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: and I'm I have a lot of thoughts. I was

620
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: raised around outlaws. Do you know that Britain like bikers,

621
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: And so my my dad was a minister and he'd

622
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: go out to pretty rough places and you know, built

623
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of try So we would get invited to

624
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: you know, funerals and weddings and all sorts of things

625
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 1: in some pretty messed up places. And those men were

626
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: so nice to me as a little girl. I wouldn't

627
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: have told you that, you know. So, and so I

628
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: I felt real comfortable and and like these were my

629
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: grandparents or my my uncle's theo. So those are the

630
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: people that I was raised around. So I think I

631
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: have a predisposition to see the soft, the kind side

632
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: inside of pretty rough, rough characters, and to to like that,

633
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: to to like people like that, just to feel safe

634
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: with people who are you know, maybe weapons on on people.

635
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: But I was just thinking about, like, you know, if

636
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: you were to ask me, if if if you would

637
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: ask me who those people were, I would give you

638
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: a description of really nice people. People that always kept

639
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: candy in their pockets and gave it to me, People

640
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: who you know, just treated me real yeah and real,

641
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: we're real nice to me. But I guess if you

642
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: were to ask, you know, I'm sure the victims of

643
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: their their crimes, like the guy he pulled the gun on,

644
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: I would imagine he would not have a nice who's

645
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: to say perspective? Yeah, who's to say what they really were?

646
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 1: And I think that one of the things that we

647
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: do a lot is we judge people based off of

648
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: these really bad things they do in reality. You know,

649
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: I've I've I work in kind of a different circle

650
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 1: now then that I grew up in. And there's a

651
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: lot of people that I trust, that looked really nice

652
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: and that would never probably pull a gun on someone

653
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: over a dog or for whatever reason. But I don't

654
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: trust them at all. I don't and I don't think

655
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: they're good people, and I don't feel safe around them,

656
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: and I don't I don't trust them at all. And

657
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: they can walk into a bank and get alone and

658
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: be treated and I don't like them, and I don't

659
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: feel I don't feel safe around those kind of people.

660
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: And and I'm just thinking, like what makes a person?

661
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: When Andy Brown at the very and said they were

662
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: just so pure, I thought that is such an interesting,

663
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 1: such an interesting way to describe them. They were just

664
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: so pure, because it's this is the last thing I

665
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: thought he was gonna say, Yeah, who who are we really?

666
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: And you I think you see, in general, we want

667
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: to be we want to be interpreted by our best attributes,

668
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: by our And I think the reason that Clay and

669
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: his dad have respect for these guys and I actually

670
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: didn't know that my mom did, but I didn't, but

671
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: they they have heard these other this other side of them.

672
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 1: I just think people are so complex. And that's why

673
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: the story Clay would come home and talk to me

674
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: about these interviews. He was doing it about these stories,

675
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed the stories because I think it

676
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: really shows the complexity of people. And I think this

677
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: day and age, we look at people and we say

678
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: that person did this one time. And I'm not saying

679
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: that's what you're doing, Britt, but I'm just saying, like

680
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: in cultural today, we look at things that people did, mistakes,

681
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: they made things law times that have changed, and we

682
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: say that was evil and that person is evil. In reality,

683
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: people do all sorts of crazy things. You know, if

684
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: you even biblically, if you look at people like that

685
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: God love, they did some really really crazy stuff. And

686
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: I kind of I kind of feel some sort of

687
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: comfort in the sense that you're not judged by those

688
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: by your worst actions. Who you are is not is

689
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: the sum of you know, kind of more the core

690
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: of you then and the worst things you've done. And

691
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the story of the podcast kind

692
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: of tells at Yeah, I just want to make absolutely clear,

693
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:36,479
Speaker 1: I'm not saying these folks for bad people. Yeah, And

694
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: I you know, I said in the beginning that I

695
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: set out to resolve inner conflict, which is just the

696
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: truth inner conflict of why do I why do I

697
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: like these guys? But they but they what they did

698
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: I would absolutely not stand for. Like if I was

699
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: in that if I Turkey hunted then saw him walk

700
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: out of the woods with a gobbler two days before season,

701
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: I would be chasing them down in the truck to

702
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 1: turn them in. And then when I figured out who

703
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 1: it was, maybe I you know, I think I think

704
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: almost everybody has the feelings that Brent has, but not

705
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: not the depth and you know you've got experience. But

706
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: it's like it's like me, uh hey, I was for

707
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: the game. I was for the game Wardens. I'll be

708
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: honest with you. I love Charlie and Louis deal, but

709
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: there's no way that uh I was for for what

710
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 1: they were doing. And here's another thought, is I knew

711
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: Charlie and Louis Deal as humans. I mean they when

712
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: I saw Charlie and Louis Dell, I didn't think of

713
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: Turkey poor poachers, even though it probably really did. But

714
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: trying to make a point that they were they were

715
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: hard working people that I enjoyed being around. I enjoyed

716
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: talking to them and had come in my office and

717
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: sat down and tell stories that they were just they

718
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: were just good, good folks. Now they were Turkey poachers secondly,

719
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: so you know we're looking at almost turkey poachers and

720
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: then these people, but they were these people that poached.

721
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that yeah, well what what?

722
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: What it says is that everything is complex. I mean,

723
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, like I saw some comment where just somebody

724
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: said I don't revere these scumbags, and they were using

725
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: my words because I said I revered him. And it's

726
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: just like, I get it. If you there are places

727
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,439
Speaker 1: in that guy's life where I guarantee you he does

728
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: revere somebody that if it was someone far off, he

729
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: would say they're a scumbag. Point being, we it's just

730
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: a complex story being a human. Yeah, what we're gonna say, Josh, Well,

731
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: I was just thinking because I was thinking, you know,

732
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: there is a there's a dichotomy here that that you know,

733
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: we revere him and we don't like what they do. You.

734
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: But I think I think a lot of times in

735
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: situations like this, when you're talking about, for instance, poaching, um,

736
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: there is a there's got to be the thought in

737
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: the back of a man's mind that this isn't really

738
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: hurting anyone, you know what I mean, there's and I

739
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: think that's kind of a dividing line of what what

740
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: you say, what's a bad person, what's a good person.

741
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: I think in the back of their mind they're thinking,

742
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 1: nobody's really getting hurt by this. It's just a law

743
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: to try to keep you know whatever. But I'm not

744
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: hurting anybody by doing it. And I think that that

745
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: can that can be easily justified away by the good

746
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: things that you do, you know what I mean, because

747
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: you care about people and you know you look out

748
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: for him, and you know, I'm just killing a few

749
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,959
Speaker 1: extra deer if you're killing a few extra turkeys. Now,

750
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: when we take into consideration, you know, pointing a gun

751
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: at a out an officer, that's that's well, let me

752
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: tell you what. And this is kind of deep, deeper

753
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: nuance inside of the takeaway from it, and I hope

754
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: us was maybe portrayed at the end of the podcast

755
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: when I gave my summary more than that part you

756
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: don't listen to. If you could take the mold of

757
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: those guys a mold and put something else different, maybe

758
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: a little a little different concoction inside of it, I

759
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: said that those guys could have given a master class

760
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 1: on identity and being genuine, which are two things that

761
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: are massively, massively in the mix in the fight for

762
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: every person on planet Earth, every person in this room.

763
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: Like we're kind, I mean the struggle of human nature

764
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: is who are we? And I mean if you don't,

765
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: if you don't identify with that statement, it's just because

766
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: I didn't say it in your language the way that

767
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 1: you would. Because you are you. You are trying to

768
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: find who you are? Who? Who are you supposed to be?

769
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,240
Speaker 1: How are you supposed to act? What are you supposed

770
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: to value? What do you supposed to say? Who you're

771
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: supposed to love? Where? Where are you supposed to work?

772
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: Where you supposed to put your energy? Where do you

773
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: get your validation? Who do you want to say that

774
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: you're good? Who do you want to you know? The

775
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: identity and most of us and I'm I'm putting me

776
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 1: inside of there are are? Our identity is shaped often

777
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: in the negative space of I don't want to be

778
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: like that, I don't want to be perceived this way.

779
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: I'm afraid of this, I'm afraid of that, And so

780
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: a lot of identities built out of insecurity and what

781
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: I saw inside of interview and Charlie and loudl and I,

782
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, I was just a kid with these guys,

783
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: so it's not like I had personal adult interaction. You know.

784
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: Knew knowing them was that they really didn't care a

785
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: lot about what people thought. They had this shape of

786
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: who they were, they weren't ashamed of it. And Neil

787
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,720
Speaker 1: Taylor said it so well. He said they were content

788
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: with who they were. They didn't want to be anything

789
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: that they weren't, and they had a value system that

790
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: they kept their whole life. And they were the same

791
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: way with the game warden as they were with their

792
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: best buddy down the street. It's like, what has value

793
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: as a human the guy that you know? Let me

794
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: ask every person that's ever that's listening to this right now,

795
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 1: have you broken the game law? Have you killed one

796
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: more than you're supposed to? Miss Nucam is the only

797
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: angel here? Maybe Josh too, you accidentally? Okay, well you're

798
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: a poacher? Um No, I can't even believe you. Listen.

799
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: Here's here's my point is that Charlie and Louis Dell

800
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: broke game laws and hid stuff, but they were they

801
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: were upfront about it. They just war They knew it.

802
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: Everybody knew it. We all knew it. People gravitate to

803
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: someone that you can trust, even if you can trust

804
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: them to be a poacher, you know what I mean.

805
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: And that comes into play with the identity. It's like,

806
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the thing that makes people feel unsure

807
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: is when you have someone that you don't think can't

808
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: get to read exactly. I mean, what makes you more

809
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: uncomfortable than meeting someone and thinking, I have no idea

810
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: what's going on inside of I don't know if they

811
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: like me or they hate me, or if they want

812
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: to steal my money or stab me in the back

813
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: or want to Andy said that, he said, he said,

814
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: Louis Edwards didn't beat around the bush with anybody. He

815
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: was just up front. Do you have an example of

816
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: the way he would have been. No, not really. I

817
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: didn't know him as well as Andy, but I knew

818
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: him pretty well. I mean we shot bows together, and uh,

819
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: he'd stopped by the bank occasionally and just visit. But

820
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: I really can't elaborate on what he said. I can't

821
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: give you a story, but uh, I agreed with it.

822
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't put up any facades. I mean,

823
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 1: if you didn't like your bow hunter, and you don't

824
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 1: like the kind of bow he uses, you know how

825
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: we do. If I if you gotta recurve, if you

826
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: don't like my compound, if I got a compound, I

827
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: don't like your gun. I mean, he didn't care anything

828
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: about that kind of stuff. I mean, just you know,

829
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: he he had dogs. If you don't like dogs, that's tough.

830
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: You don't like my big guns, that's tough. Yeah. Uh,

831
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: But you know, I just resect a certainty of it.

832
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: I just do. I mean, and and and what we

833
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: we've got to build is people that have a value

834
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: system that's really good, have that kind of certainty, that

835
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: have that kind of That's what I want. I mean,

836
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: I and and Man, if there's one thing that I

837
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: value inside of what I'm doing is that when I

838
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: interact with people, and especially on something like this, when

839
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm really researching somebody, whether it's Warren or Glenn or

840
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: Daniel Boone or Louis Dell and Charlie Edwards, which is

841
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 1: wild that's probably never broken a game off. Oh come on, now,

842
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: well since he was fourteen, Um, I know you're joking.

843
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: He wouldn't he's a very he's a very good feller.

844
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: The one thing about these guys too, Uh see, I

845
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: was brought up in a home where, you know, it's

846
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: pretty sterile, pretty pure, and in a way, Clay Nukelen

847
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: was brought up in a home like that and missed

848
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: he was and probably uh a lot of you guys

849
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: listened pointed at Brent and then kind of turned the Strea.

850
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: But dad's dad was a preacher. My grandfather was a preacher.

851
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 1: So dad is a preacher's kid. So you know, hey,

852
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: we're not all dealt the same hand. I mean, these

853
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: guys were brought up by moonshiners that when they got

854
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: up in the morning, their daddy's and mama's were going, now,

855
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: you guys study hard at school and don't be getting

856
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: in trouble, and these are our rules, and be good boys.

857
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: Uh But they come home and they're making moonshine and

858
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: the little kids are going, why are the cops gotta surrounded?

859
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,439
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're brought up if they see

860
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: their heroes and their mentors and their leaders and and

861
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: they're all a bunch of criminals. And so you got

862
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: these little guys growing up in that environment and when

863
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: they break out on their own, you see this kind

864
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: of like Andy said, pure. I mean I don't necessarily

865
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: agree with that word pure, but in a sense, you

866
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: see this pure human that you're He's got honesty, integrity, handshakes.

867
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: All you need. You just keep going on and on.

868
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: You need help. He's there, just bam, bam bam, and

869
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: you're going wow. And the guy killed a few extra turkeys. Now,

870
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: which way am I gonna go with this guy? You know?

871
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: And uh so they were brought up in an environment

872
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: that you know, they were making a living illegally. Man,

873
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 1: the I thought the I didn't know what I was

874
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: getting into when I talked to Stony. They they literally

875
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: just put out this three ring binder where they had

876
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: laminated newspaper clippings from ninety six and it and it

877
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: was all this stuff about the moonshine and getting you know,

878
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: basically the police, you know where they were acquitted of

879
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,479
Speaker 1: murder and we don't know the whole story, but man

880
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: was killed. Police were six police when we put on

881
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: trial for murder. All of them were acquitted and a

882
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: man and his coon dog were dead. Yeah, and it's

883
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: in it point being just you know that the story

884
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: lines up. You know, the story lines up. There's a

885
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: trajectory there, there is you know this, this probably get

886
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: me a lot of trouble, so you can cut this out.

887
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: But I've always said the mafia, when they tell you

888
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: they're gonna kill you, they're gonna kill you. You know,

889
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: in other words, you can trust them. I mean that

890
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: there's there's an integrity inside of every little system that

891
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: if it's dealt off of honesty, it usually works. And

892
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: they only honesty the Mafia has is if you disagree

893
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: with him, you're probably gonna die. But you know, I mean,

894
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Charlie's little group. I mean,

895
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: all they're doing is killing turkeys, but they had this

896
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: integrity that meant a lot to them, and they lived

897
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: within those boundaries. I think what Misty said, and Brent,

898
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: I want to hear your real thoughts, because I would

899
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: love it if you just want. You guys are full

900
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: of this philosophy stuff. But let me let me say this.

901
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: What Misty said. When she said that, I was like, yeah,

902
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: and I think this would be pretty deep. Inside of

903
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: Missing in particular, is that there is a whitewashed righteousness

904
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,760
Speaker 1: that is just malarkey in the world where you see

905
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 1: people that have a glimmer a shine of being perfect

906
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 1: and they're not at all. And I mean, that's part

907
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 1: of what is so intriguing to me about rural culture

908
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: and poor people and all this stuff is that the

909
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: world has said these people are not a value I

910
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 1: mean essentially in some bigger macro picture of of of

911
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 1: where value is. And that is something that from a lot,

912
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: I mean just from birth. I kind of keyed in

913
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,479
Speaker 1: on that that that guy may look pretty, but he's

914
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: a bad guy. That guy may have some rough edges,

915
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: but he's a good guy. And that's like real strong

916
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 1: inside of me, like I would rather well. And there's

917
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: there's all kind of there's all kind of proverbs about

918
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know better to better to say

919
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do it and then do it. Then

920
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: to say you're gonna do it and not do it.

921
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,920
Speaker 1: You know, so might as well just portray yourself as

922
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: whatever you want to portray yourself. A lot of that

923
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: comes with the unknown. In other words, if I know

924
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: Brent and I know what to expect, he can you know,

925
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: he can do a couple of little goofy things and

926
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: it's okay, I know what's going on. But if he's

927
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: all polished and shined and trying to sell me a

928
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 1: bill of goods and he's a cold man, like I

929
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't adjudged your old buddy like I did. It made

930
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 1: the point, you know, a guy like that, where you're going,

931
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: wait a minute, he treats me like a king, and

932
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 1: then he's he's like, given this guy raw bill. But yeah, yeah,

933
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: it's it's it's you're getting something that you don't see

934
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 1: with your eyes. You know. I want to see the

935
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: whole guy. Then I can deal with it, even you know,

936
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: go back to the mafia, which kind of stupid. All

937
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: I know is I don't know a couple of things.

938
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: They're not gonna kill me, you know. Yeah, so at

939
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: least I know where I stand. I don't want to

940
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: be around these people. Yeah. But uh, but a lot

941
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: of most folks, a lot of folks around you know,

942
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: we don't know what we're getting. Well, you think, well,

943
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity to make good choices and bad choices,

944
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: and there's always circumstances for that. The incident with the

945
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: dog true or not. But I'm sure there's other things

946
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: that have happened like that, not just to them, to

947
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You put your that they were

948
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: out there breaking the law, and so they put themselves

949
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: in that position. You know, nobody had told them to

950
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: go run dogs on October the one. That may be

951
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: what they did, but that doesn't make it right. And

952
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: and it it brings up a a incident or an

953
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: opportunity or something tragic to happen. Tragic, something tragic did

954
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: happen when the guy and the coon dog got killed.

955
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: You know Number one, why right around in a car.

956
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 1: They ain't got no breaks in the mountains. That that

957
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: was one thing I took away from that. Yeah, that

958
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: was you know, if if he couldn't stop, why was

959
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: he out there driving that thing? Anyway? That could have

960
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: been a family spin the moon shin the you know,

961
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 1: making moonshine. They wouldn't have been after him if they

962
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: had not been making moonshin Now. You know, my dad,

963
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: when before I was born, couldn't find a job in

964
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: Southeast Arkansas. He went to Ipsilanti, Michigan and worked for

965
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: Forward Motor Company up there on this Semon land because

966
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: that's how he had to feed his family. He didn't

967
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 1: he didn't stay at home and poached Yeah, in my

968
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: or magic moonshine. That's a great love it brow. That's good.

969
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: That's a good example. Your dad would have been about

970
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: probably about in the same era as these guys. And

971
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: but he which But my father had an absolute disdain

972
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: for authority. He didn't like the police, and he got

973
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: a whole family full of them. But which is another story.

974
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: But I mean, you say, you you put yourself, you

975
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: you put yourself in those kind of positions, and if

976
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: you don't, a lot of that badness goes away. You know,

977
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: I see some in my career. I've seen a lot

978
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: of sadness and a lot of things that I wish

979
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: I could I could not remember, but I know that

980
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: they were the majority of the people that I saw

981
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: do the most hideous things were also done some good

982
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,439
Speaker 1: in their life, you know, and they just got caught

983
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 1: up in in a bad deal, in a bad situation

984
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: and it didn't see a way out. And we're talking

985
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: we're not talking about murdering folks were talking about killing turkeys,

986
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I realized there's a heck of

987
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: a difference. But right is right and wrong is wrong,

988
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: And you make a choice and you put yourself there

989
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: and they say the old saying is if you play

990
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: stupid games, you'll win stupid prizes. So yeah, that's about

991
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 1: my take on it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. I

992
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: think it's a really strong point what she said that

993
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: uh and and it and it's apples to apples saying

994
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: my dad didn't have a job and he moved to

995
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: Michigan and worked at the forward line. He didn't stay

996
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: home and make moonshine and kill turkeys. I mean that

997
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a valid point, you know. So

998
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: everything that's been said is right, and that's exactly why

999
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to tell the story because it's it's an

1000
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: interesting human story and if nothing else, it'll make us

1001
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: have discussions like this, which I think are valuable and

1002
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 1: it'll bring some you know there there there are there's

1003
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: value in looking back. I mean, like, if it was

1004
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 1: wrong to talk about bad stuff that happened, then we

1005
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: would have to shut down the entire century between eighteen

1006
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: hundred and nineteen hundred on every level of human life,

1007
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't talk about it. Well, that happens to

1008
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: be one of my favorite periods of American history. I mean,

1009
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, I mean the market hunting and all the

1010
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 1: wild stuff that happened, And so we can look back

1011
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: in history and we can see stuff and we can

1012
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 1: learn from it. And this one it's a simple learn

1013
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we're not condoned. And anybody go kill

1014
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of turkeys and if you do your stupid Yeah,

1015
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: and if a guy did that today, I would, I

1016
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: mean I would, I mean out right just would be

1017
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: a selfish, egotistical jerk. I mean like there would be

1018
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: no place if a guy today. But but and again,

1019
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: this was a long time ago, and maybe that is

1020
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: fariseical of me to say that, but um, and I'm

1021
01:00:58,120 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: not condoned. I'm not saying that was good. I'm just

1022
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: saying and these guys had character traits that were valuable,

1023
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm interested in looking at, because man,

1024
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: you can look at a bunch of people that did

1025
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff right all the time and not

1026
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: have the tools that you need to be successful. Like

1027
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: we gotta look at a whole bunch of stuff. Everybody

1028
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: messed up, did stupid stuff, you know what I mean?

1029
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. People are complex. I mean, that's the I

1030
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: think to me, that's the takeaway from that people and

1031
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: the whole story is that man, people are complex and

1032
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,439
Speaker 1: they pull out complex emotions out of us. I mean,

1033
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 1: I think about all the the different people that I mean,

1034
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: even think about your dad, like you probably have all

1035
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: sorts of complicated feelings about him. You know, I'm just

1036
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: calling your dad out because he's not in the room.

1037
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: But think about your you know, like you probably have

1038
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: really positive feelings about him and really really negative ones

1039
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: as well. And you could say, my dad built this

1040
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: stuff in me and that was really good, and my

1041
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: dad built this stuff in me that it wasn't. And

1042
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: I think we've got a utrue right now that says, well,

1043
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: if there's anything bad, we're going to cancel the whole person.

1044
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: And I don't like that. I don't like that. I

1045
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: think that's really unhealthy. And I think the value of

1046
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: of what you did in this story. One of the

1047
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: things I appreciated about it is that you you kind

1048
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: of showed this complex picture of these people. He'll pull

1049
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: a gun on someone, and I don't feel like he

1050
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,479
Speaker 1: told the best stories I've heard about them. I feel

1051
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: like I'm talking about positive stories. I think there's some

1052
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: really good stories about these guys that didn't get told

1053
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 1: because they're kind of hard to trace back and tell,

1054
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: you know. And I think some of the reason that

1055
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: I find these men endearing is because some of those stories,

1056
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: and those are the first stories I heard, and like

1057
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: I didn't hear about the Turkey poach, and I just

1058
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: heard about this other stuff and those some of those

1059
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: are going to come out and the second podcast, So

1060
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 1: just just for those following along, there's there was a

1061
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: Genuine Outlaws Part one. There's gonna be a Genuine Outlaws

1062
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: Part two, which is going to be another biopiece on

1063
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: Louie Dell and Charlie. So it's just gonna be more stories,

1064
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 1: except this one they get it. It's it's less poaching

1065
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: and more just some kind of wild stories about these guys,

1066
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,680
Speaker 1: which in some ways is just entertaining to hear. And

1067
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: it just paints a colorful picture. And I think that

1068
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: it it shows an image of this part of the world,

1069
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: and and and I just want to tell that story.

1070
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:30,439
Speaker 1: The third podcast in Genuine Outlaws Part three is gonna

1071
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: be I don't want to say, because I'm uncertain who

1072
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 1: I've got. What happens in part four I've gotten three

1073
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:44,479
Speaker 1: three people that are willing to talk and uh man,

1074
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: they're they're like high level people that want to comment

1075
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: on this very particular thing. Yeah, and I think that

1076
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: that's part of the interesting part about this is that

1077
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: there are people who want to talk who our position

1078
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: to be against these people, even even Jimmy, I mean

1079
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: the game Warton's were I was shocked at what Jimmy

1080
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: Marton says. And they will not talk to Clay unless

1081
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: they're like, well, we want to know that the family,

1082
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: these are good people. We want to know the family

1083
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: supportive of it. And it's just it speaks to their

1084
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: character that people care about what what they think. You know,

1085
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 1: one thing Jimmy said that I might have misunderstood it,

1086
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: and I didn't agree with it. I don't think Louis

1087
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:28,320
Speaker 1: Dill and Charlie built this myth. They told facts. Yeah,

1088
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: I think it's like Bonnie and Clyde every bank robber,

1089
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: that every bank that was robbed was done by Bonnie

1090
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: and Clyde, so the story got bigger than it really was.

1091
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that's kind of what he meant, because well, Charlie,

1092
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: for sure, he was kind of a humble guy. A

1093
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: little bit I knew about him. I mean, he wouldn't

1094
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: he wasn't gonna go in lime Tree and Ragabat killing

1095
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of turkeys at Well, I'm glad you said

1096
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: that because when I when I as soon as the

1097
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: podcast came out, Neil Taylor texted me and he said, uh,

1098
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: he said, Clay, they killed every turkey they ever claimed

1099
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: to have killed. He said, they liked to talk about it.

1100
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: They would like to brag a little bit, he said,

1101
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: but they were not liars. I felt like there was

1102
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,920
Speaker 1: a u some journalistic integrity and me putting that in

1103
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: just because Jimmy Martin that's what he thought, and he

1104
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: had a right to have an opinion of whether they

1105
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: really killed as many as they did, and the tendency

1106
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: would be for the story to grow. Even though when

1107
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,120
Speaker 1: he said it, I was thinking they killed every turkey

1108
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:42,000
Speaker 1: they said. I really, I really believed it. But I

1109
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: want I felt like I owed it to Jimmy to

1110
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: put that in. That he did such a great job,

1111
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it was he just made the story.

1112
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: But I think that one particular place, people like Andy

1113
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: and myself and other people would go no, if they

1114
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 1: told you they kill old thirty six turkeys. They killed

1115
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: thirty six turkeys. I mean that was part of the

1116
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 1: beauty of these guys. Yeah, yeah, I'm really glad you

1117
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: Just just for the listeners, can you guys tell us

1118
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: what the Lime Tree is? Landmark? Landmark restaurant. It used

1119
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: to be the Holland House. Andy Brown mentioned the halland

1120
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 1: now he said they need to go down to the

1121
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: Holland House. So we're gonna end this podcast on a

1122
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: high note. Okay, Gary Nucom hunted with Charlie Edwards one

1123
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: time when he first came into Mina. And I'll te

1124
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 1: you up a little bit with a little drama. So

1125
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 1: dad was a banker, a young banker and a small

1126
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 1: town with a bunch of little rug rat kids and

1127
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 1: came into Mina and uh, you know he was and

1128
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: he's got his reasons for why he went hunting with

1129
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: a guy. But you do know the full story of

1130
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: who this guy was. He was your customer, and and

1131
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,479
Speaker 1: he invited you turkey hunting, and you're like, I'm gonna

1132
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: go turkey. No, don't don't get too carried away turkey

1133
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: hunting in early March. I invited myself. Okay, well, tell

1134
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: the story. Well, uh I turkey hunting for about ten years,

1135
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,000
Speaker 1: and I didn't you know, I killed a few turkeys,

1136
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: but I just wasn't getting it, you know. And uh

1137
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: I didn't want anybody to call a bird it. I

1138
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: just kind of wanted to do it on my own.

1139
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 1: And finally I just told a friend of mine, I said,

1140
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: you know, I think I need to go out with

1141
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: a really good turkey hunter. And he said, well, I'm

1142
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: hunting with Charlie. I'm on hunting this group with Charlie

1143
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: Edwards Saturday if you want to come home. And so, anyway,

1144
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: I talked to Charlie and he said, yeah, come on,

1145
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: I'll take you hunting. Had you met him up, Yeah, yeah,

1146
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 1: yeah I knew him. I knew him, but I can't

1147
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 1: get all those details exactly right. But there was a

1148
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: third guy in Bobe, a realtor. And uh So, anyway,

1149
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: friend of mine called me and said, uh, man, you

1150
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,959
Speaker 1: can't go hunt with these guys and game wardens. They're

1151
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: gonna be think as thieves out there after him, and

1152
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: I go, well, I'm not gonna do anything wrong, which

1153
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:12,840
Speaker 1: might have been stupid, I don't know, but I said,

1154
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do anything wrong. So I'm going and

1155
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: so I went, and we ended up killing three birds,

1156
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 1: and uh, one big bird gobbled, which I just thought

1157
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: about this on the way up here. One big bird

1158
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: gobbled and we didn't go after it, and I thought,

1159
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 1: why aren't we going after that bird? I'm thinking he

1160
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: was saving it. So we go over here where there's

1161
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of younger birds and he calls in a

1162
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: whole flock, you know, and uh end up killing three

1163
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: of them. He does, he did, he did. They were

1164
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 1: killing on his side. Actually he killed two, and he

1165
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 1: was wanting me to kill him, and I go, you know,

1166
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: they're on your side. I can't get around, you know,

1167
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 1: blah blah, And so he goes, okay, bam bam, kills

1168
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: two and then uh, he goes, you may call him

1169
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: back in again. I go yeah, And so we moved

1170
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,679
Speaker 1: about ten or fifteen yards on this knob. He calls again.

1171
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: Here they come again, and they come up on his side,

1172
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: and um, anyway, he goes, shoot. I go, man, I can't.

1173
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: I can't get a beat on him. And bam. So

1174
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: he's got three. There's a three bird limit in Arkansas.

1175
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: So you know, I go, you're gonna tag those birds

1176
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: and he goes, nah, and so I didn't want to

1177
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: be accomplished to some major crimes. I didn't say anything,

1178
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 1: but we went to the whichish so so anyway, I

1179
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 1: mean I just said, okay, you know, that's your your choice,

1180
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: and we go to the store to check it in

1181
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: there big fork and he, uh, he didn't sign them in,

1182
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't have him tagged, had him in the back of

1183
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: the truck right in front of the store. In a

1184
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 1: game warden pulls up right at the front door. I mean,

1185
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, as much as I like Charlie, I'm like,

1186
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm kind of for the game wardens, you know what

1187
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 1: I mean. I want to know, I want some of

1188
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 1: these birds for myself. And uh so guy comes in

1189
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: and Charlie just starts signing these birds in. Hey, how

1190
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 1: you doing there, game warden. And you know, meet my

1191
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: best friend here, Gary Nukeleman. This this realtort. You played interference,

1192
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: and you know, we just got the talk and the

1193
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:28,800
Speaker 1: guy never went out and looked at the back of

1194
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: that truck and uh but it was just real fun.

1195
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: Charlie was real nice and polite, and you know, he

1196
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 1: could call like a crazy man. And I mean he

1197
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: had that big long, what thirty two inch barrel on

1198
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 1: that gun? Yeah, thirty, I asked Stony, it's thirty uh,

1199
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: thirty six maybe thirty six. I mean it's he called

1200
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: it a long time, long time. I mean that sucked.

1201
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: Will beat way out there. But the point of it,

1202
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: and the way I remember Dad telling that so many times,

1203
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: was that the game wardens could have caught him. The

1204
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 1: game warden didn't do and it wasn't Jimmy Markin it was.

1205
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't Jimmy. It was a different game warden. And

1206
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: he just pulled right up in front, right close to

1207
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,680
Speaker 1: Louis Delle's Charlie's truck and walked in and Charlie saw him.

1208
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: And if the game warden had just walked over to

1209
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 1: the back of the truck, he just would have seen

1210
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: untagged birds, not signed in because back then you had

1211
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 1: put a tag on it and signing in and so

1212
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: just the way it worked like it was just no

1213
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: big deal and it was kind of a fumble. It

1214
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: felt like, if they're trying to catch them, is that

1215
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: That's the way it appeared to me. So all the

1216
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: years they never got busted. Well wait till episode two

1217
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: wait till episode to Turkey, Honey, I don't think maybe earlier,

1218
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: well I will foreshadow they they have been, but they

1219
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: did get busted with the legal turkey getting early on

1220
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 1: when they were young. Why did you just that's not foreshadowing,

1221
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: that's like that's like jump there, like well, I mean

1222
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: I pretty much said it in the podcast, didn't it. Yeah,

1223
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: I think it's good. Or Isaac could just beat that

1224
01:12:10,439 --> 01:12:19,559
Speaker 1: whole thing out like three always everybody always got a

1225
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: big kick out of that story and they still do

1226
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,320
Speaker 1: and mean that today that Gary knucoln went hunting with

1227
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: Charlie Edwards, okay kill and Charlie Kilter. Let me tell

1228
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: you well, and right here, the one interaction that I

1229
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: had with Charlie Edwards, like face to face, like where

1230
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 1: we're talking. The only time I remember talking to him.

1231
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,640
Speaker 1: I must have been a teenager and I was at

1232
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:45,600
Speaker 1: Big Fork and I was I cannot remember who I

1233
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 1: was hunting with. I was hunting somebody. We pull up

1234
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: to the Big Fork store and we're in our camo

1235
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 1: and it's Turkey season, and well there's Charlie Edwards and

1236
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 1: he's just we just kind of meet him and he's

1237
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,759
Speaker 1: like I assume I do not remember this. I assume

1238
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 1: he's said, well, y'all do any good. And we talked

1239
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 1: about turkey hunting. And he has the long Tim in

1240
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:09,240
Speaker 1: his truck, which is this giant gun. It's spray painted

1241
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 1: green when I when I saw it, it it was spray

1242
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 1: painted like a like a like a spring green. And

1243
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: he pulls the gun out and he says, look at this,

1244
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: and he hands me the long Tim and I'm holding

1245
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 1: it in the parking lot and he goes look down

1246
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: the barrel of that thing clay and the phraseology of it.

1247
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: And my young, non abstract thinking, childhood mind thought that

1248
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: was an odd way. Like I said, look down the

1249
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: barrel and he said yeah, And I says it loaded,

1250
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: and he said yeah, don't pull the trigger. He for

1251
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 1: real said that the gun was loaded, which was would

1252
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: have been illegal to driver, but he he said, and

1253
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: what he wanted me to do was just shoulder the

1254
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: gun and looked down the barrel. Well, I took the

1255
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: shot on the ground and look down the barrel. He's like,

1256
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 1: he's what he never said anything, but he had to

1257
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: have been just like kid. But I remember really question him.

1258
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: I said, look down there, just look down the barrel

1259
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 1: is it loaded? There's psychological studies that have been done

1260
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 1: on this phenomenon where you do something you know you

1261
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: shouldn't do just because someone say, yeah, he would have

1262
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: been like jump off the cliff would have been like

1263
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: really I was? I mean it was probably do that

1264
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: was I have a look down the barrel time like

1265
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: many a gobbler. You may be the only thing with

1266
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:53,559
Speaker 1: a beard that lived through this. Oh hey, while we're closing. Um,

1267
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: Bargera's merch is all over. Bargery's hats are like for

1268
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: real in right now you can order real bar grease hats.

1269
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: I can stop getting them from China now. Yeah. That

1270
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: somebody ordered one of those knockoffs and it was pretty rough. Um.

1271
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: There's also the Acorn burgera shirt, which is my favorite.

1272
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 1: There's also an owl looks a whole lot like a

1273
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: land Bridge mustache. If you haven't seen this shirt, acre

1274
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: I was I was going to talk about. Um. It

1275
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: says a k E r in as an acorn the

1276
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:35,960
Speaker 1: way that the country pronounces it. And there's a big,

1277
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: beautiful acren that's the shape of a man's head. Acorn

1278
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: has a beard and a giant mustache that says bear grease.

1279
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: This is an epic T shirt design it um, so

1280
01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: you can get that. And then there's another cool T shirt.

1281
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: Saw that T shirt design scribbled on a legal pad

1282
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 1: at one point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is I design this,

1283
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: I design this. Do me a favorite, Go buy one

1284
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: where it proudly. Then there's a there's another shirt of

1285
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: a barred owl, a beautiful rendition of a barred owl,

1286
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 1: full eagle, spread eagle, um spread owl, and it and

1287
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 1: it and it says like a quote and it says

1288
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,000
Speaker 1: barred owl. You know. I love it, like someone said

1289
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: something and you put their names. Yeah, and it says

1290
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: it pronounces it phonetically. And then there's another beautiful shirt

1291
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: of a jar of bear grease that says bear grease

1292
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: and the lists all the different uh uses of bear

1293
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: grease underneath it. So it's pretty cool shirts. So, and

1294
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 1: then there's the Gary Newcomb Believer hats. Dad's name is

1295
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: actually on the web site signature. It says inspired by

1296
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:49,920
Speaker 1: Gary Newcomb hat. They sold those. They sold out of

1297
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 1: those in like a day, but I think they're getting

1298
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 1: them back. Um. So hey, great conversation, Thank you all

1299
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:01,640
Speaker 1: so much. You're welcome. Two th