1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is all. They call 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you, 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: You are here and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's our listener male segment, and 10 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: we have some doozies for you who as always, we 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: have picked three today. Uh, and we've been we've been 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: chipping away at this stuff, you know, like like some 13 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: kind of conspiracy Santa Claus making a list, checking it twice. 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: And we do have one surprise for you, a special 15 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: shout out at the end of today's show. So stay tuned. 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: But first, uh, let's see, let's see. We've got some 17 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: music conspiracies, We've got some photographs, we've got some codes 18 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: to crack. Where do you say we begetting today? Gents? Uh, 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, Matt, I'm tempted because you know, I'm I'm 20 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of this one. So I'm tempted to, 21 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: uh to defer to you. Alright, Yeah, let's let's let's 22 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: get our unidentified aerial phenomena on. It's been a running 23 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: thing on these episodes and our strange news episodes recently, 24 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: and uh spoiler alert, we had a phone call with 25 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: a celebrity and we talked specifically about the thing that 26 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: we're about to talk about right now before it happened. 27 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: So crazy times. Let's let's jump into this. We got 28 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: a message from another Matt, so let's hear it. Hey, guys, 29 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: this is Matt in Arizona. I just want to say 30 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: that I love the show and I was reading an 31 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: article yesterday about um an object to being cited by 32 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: a pilot who's like a floating black cube. There's just 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: been a lot of UFO news recently, and I wanted 34 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: to know what you guys thought of it. And if 35 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: you think disclosure is coming soon? All right, thanks, bye 36 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: bye boom. Disclosure is it coming soon? That was literally 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: the discussion that we had just the other day. And 38 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: that's not just a veiled flex on Matt's part, by 39 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: the way, that we had a conversation about disclosure with 40 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: a celebrity that's going to come around and benefit you 41 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: the audience on a podcast feed near you very soon. 42 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: It will be one of the weirdest things you've heard 43 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: in some time, just as this was. Sorry, I thought 44 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: that was a Transformers reference. I know what you guys 45 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: are talking about. Back, I'm back back in, I'm back in, 46 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm back on Lord. Okay, let's go back in the game. 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: Back in the game. Okay. So uh I, Matt, thank 48 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: you so much for calling. First of all, we appreciate 49 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: your kind words, and uh we also appreciate that disclosure 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: has been on our minds a lot recently, as all 51 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: kinds of reports have been coming out recently. Um, this one, 52 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: I think this is the one you're speaking about. It's 53 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: a report from Popular Mechanics that I stumbled upon and 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: actually sent to the guys. I think I think they 55 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: probably saw it independently before I sent it to them, 56 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: but we had a quick discussion about it. This is 57 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: the title leaked government photo shows motionless cube shaped UFO 58 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: and motionless cube shaped is in quotations. Now, there are 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: photos of this supposed UFO that you can find on 60 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: that Popular Mechanics site, as well as a couple other places. 61 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: I believe the Debris had one of the first pieces 62 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: of reporting on this back in early December, and they've 63 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: got the great it's a really great wide photo of 64 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: it right at the top of their page on the debrief, 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: and then a zoomed in picture as well. We'll talk 66 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: about it a little bit, but I would just say 67 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: the first thing that strikes me here Ben and Noll 68 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: is the similarities of this thing to the Black Night satellite. 69 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: Do you do you remember that? Just in shape and form, 70 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: it feels very similar to me. Uh In looking at 71 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: the image, it does not look cube shaped at all 72 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: to me, but I can I guess imagine how it 73 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: could be cube shaped. Um, it doesn't feel that way 74 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: to me at all. But let's just let's go through 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: this on the popular mechanics side. So this is an 76 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: unclassified image that has been going around US intelligence agencies 77 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: for a while. It claims to show this thing unidentified 78 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: aerial phenomena. Um it is. It has been described by 79 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: US officials as silver and cube shaped, and that is 80 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: from the reporting on the debrief. Looks like we're like 81 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: a like a shield or something. It's almost like triangular. 82 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: It's like con concave at the top and then comes 83 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: down to a point. I don't see the cubeness of it. Yeah, 84 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: that that's that's essentially what I was saying it to me. 85 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: It more resembles the Black Knight satellite and not so 86 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: much a cube shape. But you know, this is a 87 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: single still image, and the report is going off of 88 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: what these pilots experienced. Um, and then what you know, 89 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: the images that we're there and we're only getting one 90 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: still image essentially. So and a quick interjection here for 91 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: anybody I'm familiar. Uh, the Black Knight satellites, according to 92 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,119 Speaker 1: the true believers, is a satellite that's in a near 93 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: polar orbit of Earth and it's extraterrestrial origin. And the 94 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: idea is that NASA is for one reason or another 95 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: covering up its existence. Uh, there is space debris that 96 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: might have been mis identified as that stuff. But as 97 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: we I think we I think this is related to 98 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: our Corona or Key episodes where we look at the 99 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: main flaw of putting satellites in space, which is that 100 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to keep them secret because the technology 101 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 1: you need to see most satellites is not out of 102 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: the reach of the common person. Of their focus. But 103 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: but this is different, as you were saying, Matt, because 104 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: this is it is one still image, but it is Um, 105 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: it is pretty clear, and I think the main conversation 106 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: now is, well, without getting too far ahead of ourselves, 107 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: what the hell is it? Well, yeah, there are a 108 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: lot of possibilities. UM. One of the one of the 109 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: primary writers there from the debrief that's been speaking about 110 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: this is a guy named Tim McMillan who also contributes 111 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: to Popular Mechanics, and uh, he's done a pretty great 112 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: job of, you know, writing about this thing. And then 113 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: several other people have been doing some great reporting. But 114 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: they're just saying that there are um, multiple people confirming 115 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: that this thing was a part of the Unidentified Aerial 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Phenomenon task Forces efforts to look at things. It was 117 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: classified in that way it comes from. UM, I don't 118 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: know what it is, but there's a lot of conjecture 119 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: about that. Let's see, it was encountered by a pilot 120 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: flying over the Atlantic Ocean on the East coast of 121 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: the United States in that year. And the image that 122 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: we're seeing that if you look on any of these websites, 123 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: it was captured on a cell phone. It's not as 124 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: though it was part of the onboard systems of that 125 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: that fighter jet. The I think it's an f A 126 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: eight ten F super hornet Um. It was just a 127 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: cell phone image. It was snapped from from inside the cockpit, 128 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: which is crazy to think about. And this guy that 129 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: I was mentioning, the writer Timmillan, he describes it as 130 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: inverted and bell shaped and having ridges or other protrusions 131 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: along its lateral edges extending towards its base, kind of 132 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: the way Noll you're describing it there. It's really interesting 133 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: because the possibilities are all over the place. One of 134 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: the major ones that that Popular Mechanics is pointing to 135 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: is a GPS drop sand at the end. Yeah, d 136 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: R O P S O N D e uh. And 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: essentially what you were the theory there is that what 138 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: you're seeing is actually a parachute um that has been 139 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: deployed to one of these things. That makes a lot 140 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: of sense actually looking at it. Yeah, it's possible that 141 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: it could be that, but the issue is that the 142 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: actual mechanical thing that is attached to that parachute doesn't 143 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: appear to be in the photograph. And just to be clear, 144 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: like if it were a GPS drops on a conventional one, 145 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: then it would have that cylinder hanging down from that 146 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: that parachute, and and it doesn't. It doesn't have that 147 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: piece of it. Also, Matt, when you originally said that 148 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: you objected to the idea of it being described as 149 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: looking tube shaped. I think I think part of it 150 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: is down to the distance and the perspective. It looks 151 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: like the person in the back seat. There's a two 152 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: seater fighter. It looks like a person in back seat 153 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: is taking this photograph over someone's shoulder, as you said, 154 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: from a cell phone as they're flying, and from that 155 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: distance without zooming in, it would look cube shaped. So 156 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: I think we're we've got the benefit of analysis here. 157 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: But I did notice the same thing when you mentioned that. Yeah, no, 158 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: for sure, and and again we only have the image 159 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: and then what the fighter pilots had to say about it, um, 160 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: And here is just another extra piece of information from 161 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: that writer. McMillan says, quote pilots who encounter the object 162 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: described that unlike a balloon under similar conditions, or perhaps 163 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: even you know, a parachute of some sort, the object 164 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: was completely motionless and seemingly unaffected by ambient air currents, 165 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: which would you know, would speak to it having some 166 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: kind of propulsion system that's allowing it to stay in 167 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: one place rather than being taken just you know by 168 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: the air current, right. Yeah, because the GPS drops on 169 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: is like it's it's dropping the whole time. That's that's 170 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: a it's a parachute. It's just kind of slows it down. 171 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't stop it in the middle of the air. 172 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: And I always think about this, is it possible maybe 173 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: the it given the rate of descent, if this were 174 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: just a parachute and the angle and speed of the plane, 175 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: is it possible that it could have appeared to be motionless? 176 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: But if that feels like some of the pilots would 177 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: already have known how to suss out, right, because they 178 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: fly for a living. Yeah, for sure. You know. The 179 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: only other thing I can imagine is that the if 180 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: it was it drops on or something like this that's 181 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: really heavy, somehow the parachute itself is actually being pushed 182 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: towards so the air current is moving towards the pilots 183 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: to where at such a rate that it's actually the 184 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: drops on is obscured out of view on the other side, 185 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: like away from the pilots. But then again they're they're 186 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: passing by it, so they would see it on the 187 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 1: other side. Then it would just be on the pilots too, 188 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: look back, I guess, and check it out on the 189 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: other side. But again I don't think that's physically possible, 190 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: at least at the altitude where it was, where it 191 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: was found, um, in the conditions, the air conditions. I 192 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's definitely weird, right it's in 193 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: Just chalk it up to another very strange aerial phenomena 194 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: that has been recorded and officially was in the on 195 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: the books of the government program that's been out there 196 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: looking at it since two thousand twelve, at least according 197 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: to the official story. I don't know. I don't know 198 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: what else to say about this guy's I just know 199 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep looking for news on it, and I 200 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: think we're gonna keep seeing stories like this. I think 201 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep It's like like we've said in the 202 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: call we were talking about just in general on the 203 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 1: show as who who was it the gentleman that was 204 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: the head of the Israeli space program who came out 205 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: and made some pretty extreme statements um about disclosure level events, 206 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: and it just feels like the facade is cracking a 207 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: little bit, and we're gonna keep seeing a little drips 208 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: and drafts and stories like the don't make the news 209 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: as much anymore, which I think is really telling. I 210 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: don't know how you guys feel about that fact that 211 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: these stories aren't like front page news is because everything 212 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: else is so left up that like this is just 213 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,599 Speaker 1: sort of a drop in the bucket. Or I was 214 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: in in conversation with a friend of mine about the 215 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: idea of these sort of reports being just delegitimized over time, 216 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: just the whole idea of them, or of the discussion 217 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: even like not having a place in public discourse, it 218 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: just being inherently fringe because of terms of abuse like 219 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and you know all that stuff. UM, I'm 220 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: wondering what your thoughts are man been on on why 221 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: this stuff doesn't crack through when it clearly is legitimate news, 222 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: especially the Israeli UM, you know, space program ahead and 223 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: some of the things that we've been seeing coming out 224 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: of retired Air Force people and and you know, these 225 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: these footage from pilots and the like. There's a lot 226 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: to say about all of that well, but there's no 227 00:13:55,679 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: way currently to prove any of the statements that were 228 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: made by or at least too publicly, too anyway to 229 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: any I would say, actively working researcher that is not 230 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: under some kind of gag order or you know, working 231 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: on some kind of classified program to come out and 232 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: verify any of the things that were stated by h 233 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: Oh goodness Ben what was his name, former general in 234 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: Israeli forces as well, even someone with those kind of credentials, 235 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: there's no way to prove what he's saying. And the 236 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: only thing that could be said is you deny that 237 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: there's some classified material. You can't say yes or no 238 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: to it. You just say we can't confirm or deny this. Um. 239 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: There's no good way to address it, I don't think 240 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: unless unless you come out and you just say, yes, 241 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: what he's saying is true. Yeah, get ready held under 242 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: your butts. Um. It's like the you know, there's a 243 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: similar phenomenon we see in the debriefs report on this 244 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: this photograph. Because they reached out to Uncle Sam and 245 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: the official like the Pentagon's response was we can't give 246 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: you any more details other than it was somewhere east 247 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: of this one continent, and it was over the ocean. 248 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: We can't say anything else because it might what what 249 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: is it like? It might compromise our operations. They don't 250 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: want to give enemy information. Uh So, so that kind 251 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: of obstucation, even if necessary, does lend itself to speculation. 252 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: And I will say that we live in a time 253 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: and the culture now where we are all encouraged to 254 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: believe in like instant gratification, or that things play out 255 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: like a things play out the way that our favorite 256 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: televised dramas or films do. There's not life does not 257 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: bay a three act structure, right they are These reports 258 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: may be increasing in frequency, but it is somewhat self 259 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: centered to like it's the way that doomsday cults work 260 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: because people like to think, naturally, I will be alive 261 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: during this hugely important events. You know what I mean? 262 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: Just because we feel that there's nothing wrong with having 263 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: feelings here, they're great. But just because people feel that 264 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: way doesn't automatically, uh make it true. You know what 265 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: I mean? I do see an increase frequency, but I 266 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: don't know what that means. Matt. I mean you think 267 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: I think you make one of the most important points here, 268 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: which is that if this were a magic eight ball, 269 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: we would need the answer would be asked again later 270 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: right now. And look, I really want there to be extraterrestrials, 271 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: and I really want them to be like out in 272 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: the open in my lifetime. That's fine. If it leads 273 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: to my painful death, I don't care of how to 274 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: come for a while. It'll just be willing to live 275 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: in that time. I want them to be cool and 276 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: smarter than us, but like willing to share and be 277 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: chill and like make make life better. And that's my 278 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: like benevolent uh you know, optimistic view of disclosure. I 279 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: know the reality is it will probably be like we 280 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: we are a cancerous plague upon the universe, and they're 281 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: going to exterminate us, probably with good reason. But you know, 282 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm holding out hope for the at least somewhere in 283 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: the middle of those two they we had a rough year, Aliens, 284 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, come come hang with us, share your wisdom. 285 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: Want the galactic federations. I want the galactic Federation. What 286 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna get are the borg And that's just how 287 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: it's going to be. Right, Well, we won't know what 288 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: we're getting the concept of it being anything remotely like 289 00:17:54,320 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: us is incredibly uh incredibly anthrocentric. So we that's what 290 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying. It's going to be the board. It's it's 291 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: gonna be a thing that takes all the biological material 292 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: around it and turns it into itself. Maybe maybe it'll 293 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: be Maybe it'll be one of those happy accidents where 294 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: like the extraterrestrial forces consider plastic and microplastics the most 295 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: important like rare commodity, and then the pollution, and then 296 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: they eat up the pollution to finish brilliant ben that 297 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: is brilliant. Well, let us know what what you think 298 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: about all of this, and I'm gonna leave us with 299 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: a message from Pentagon spokeswoman Susan go Ready. To maintain 300 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: operations security and to avoid disclosing information that may be 301 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: useful to potential adversaries, d o D does not discuss 302 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: publicly the details of reports, observations, or examinations of reported 303 00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: incursions into our training ranges or designated airspace, and including 304 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: those incursions initially designated as unidentified aerial phenomena. I hope 305 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: that helps everyone's sleep, put me to sleep, and uh, 306 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: look if they're aliots. We're not gonna tell you if 307 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: you parted the sentence, which is all right. Thank you 308 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: so much Matt for giving us a call. We will 309 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: be right back after a word from our sponsor, and 310 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: we're back, um, And we've got a little update to 311 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: a story that I think has been on the minds 312 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: of conspiracy realists and theorists and true crime junkies alike 313 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: for many many years. And it's something very near and 314 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: dear to our compatriot Matt Frederick's heart, in the form 315 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: of a fantastic podcast series that he executive produced called 316 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: Monster Colin The Zodiac Killer, Um. And it's something I 317 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: think it's been just like in the zeitgeist as long 318 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: as I've been thinking about crime and and and serial killers. 319 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: And it is that for a reason, because it's largely 320 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: I mean not largely, it's remained unsolved, and it's a 321 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: real mystery. There's a lot of weird inconsistencies about it 322 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: and the mode of victim choosing and all of that 323 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: that's really baffled UM detectives and investigators for many many years. 324 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: It's the subject of a fabulous David Fincher films called Zodiac, 325 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: which I love because it's sort of slow, but it 326 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: harkens back to like a kind of a Scorsese sort 327 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 1: of seventies kind of now it's less it's it's more 328 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: seventies than Scorsese. It's got a lot of like plotting 329 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: kind of moments and then punctuated by bursts of stabbings 330 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: and like violence, and then it goes back to being 331 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: very placid and kind of cerebral. I'm a big fan 332 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: of the film, even though it's not for everybody, but 333 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: if you haven't seen, highly recommended. And a big part 334 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac Killer was his or there I guess 335 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: fixation on taunting and communicating with the press and the government. Matt, 336 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: you want to talk a little bit about that aspect 337 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: of it, And that's my favorite part. And I think, 338 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: what um and so intriguing one of the parts that's 339 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: so intriguing about it. Sure. Yeah. The killer or alleged 340 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: killer or a person impersonating the killer would often call 341 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: the police departments. Um many times he did that. One 342 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: of his favorite things to do was to send messages 343 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: written handwritten messages to the San Francisco Chronicle and a 344 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: couple like local papers out there in Valleo and a 345 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: couple of other towns, and he would yeah, like you said, 346 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: taunt them with written English words. But then he would 347 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 1: also include things called the cipher's uh or you know, 348 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: we're referred to as cipher's there, like codes essentially encrypted 349 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: messages that he would then further taunt these publications and 350 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: the police to try and solve it. Basically, UM, I 351 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: bet you can't solve You're not smart enough, essentially, um. 352 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: And several had been have been solved in the past. 353 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: One was solved very early by a teacher and her husband. 354 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: UM I believe, forgive me if I'm incorrect there, but 355 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: it was solved very early, just by a couple of amateur, 356 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: amateur people who were interested in it and they spent 357 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 1: some time on it. But there was one called the 358 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: three forty cipher that for fifty one years was unsolved. Um. 359 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: And it's something that you know, it was frustrating and 360 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: making that show just still not to have answers to it. I, 361 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, was very surprised to all out of the 362 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: blue see see that it had been solved. Ben and 363 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: I were texting, and I was very skeptical. I was 364 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: just like, oh, yeah, Okay, there's nothing new here. It's 365 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: just him boasting again being an a hole or who 366 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: this person, whoever Zodiac was or claimed to be um. 367 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: But there's some interesting stuff in there. I looked in 368 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: at further be and you're right in what you were saying. Well, 369 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: it is a little fascinating, and sorry, no, not to 370 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: get in front of This is a listener mail show. 371 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: We are getting to a piece of listener mail at 372 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: some point. But it is um fascinating and it's uh 373 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: tantalizing in the most the most tragic way. Because I 374 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: whenever we talk about these things, I wanna make sure 375 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 1: that people know we are well aware that real, innocent 376 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: people died, and I hate how exploitative some of that 377 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: stuff can become. I want to praise Monster because it 378 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: is the opposite of that, and it is very smart 379 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: and very well done. I don't want to put you 380 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: on the spot or blow you up, Matt, but it's true. 381 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: It's not a compliment or criticism, it's observation. It's very 382 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: well done. And the thing about the thing about this 383 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: this case is that at some points there was this 384 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: huge belief. Correct me if I'm off base here, guys, 385 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: but there was this huge belief that the zodiac disc 386 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: closed their real name or a real clue to their 387 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: identity one of these ciphers, and so that's that's part 388 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: of why there's so much energy put into solving them 389 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: even decades later. And this, uh, well he said, he 390 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: said as much. He said, solve this one essentially, and 391 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 1: you'll find out who I really am. And there's this 392 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: one line of code that's supposedly his name. But if 393 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: you speak with the experts who've been working on this 394 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: for a long time, it's almost impossible to solve for 395 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: that one line of code because you don't have enough 396 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: information essentially to figure out what all the characters mean. 397 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: That that's one of the big things with solving the 398 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: original ciphers that were solved by those amateurs. There was 399 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: so much there that they could just do kind of 400 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: substitution and they were able to figure it out. It's 401 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: also funny, like not to get too caught up in 402 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: the pop culture side of them, but like I think 403 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that this case was a big influence 404 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: on a lot of serial killer type fiction, especially Seven, 405 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: which is Dave A. Fincher's first big, very interesting movie. 406 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: Because a feature of that killer was also taunting the detectives, 407 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: you know that we're on the hunt for this killer. 408 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: And I think that's also probably something that even goes 409 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: back to like Hitchcock and older tropes and in this 410 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: kind of storytelling. But this modern version of that, to me, 411 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: a lot of that comes from the Zodiac. Um. So 412 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: back to the listener male aspect of it all, only 413 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: to say it was as a listener named Dan that 414 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: just sent us a link to this article about uh 415 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: Zodiac killer code breakers solved San Francisco killers cipher. Uh 416 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: just said, on the off chance you guys didn't see 417 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: this yet, So thanks Dan, We had seen it, we 418 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: were chatting about it, but this gave us a great 419 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about it on the show outside of 420 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: listener mail. Um. So the bad news is, I don't 421 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: know if it's even considered bad news. Is it's It's 422 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: not like this is some sort of game changer for 423 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: the case. It's not like there was some hidden message 424 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: in the cipher that is going to really crack the 425 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: thing wide open to let people know who of the 426 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: Zodiac killer was. It's a lot of the same kind 427 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: of egotistical taunting that that the killer was already doing. 428 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: Would you agree with you? That is that fair to say? Matt? 429 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: That was my initial reaction to seeing the solution that 430 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: David ran Chat came back with somebody we we spoke 431 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: with on the podcast. By the way, I didn't know that. 432 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: That's awesome. UM So let you decide for yourselves. Here 433 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: is the full message that ourran check posted in the 434 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: metadata for a YouTube video that's sort of like, Uh, 435 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: I guess the scoop on this? Uh? Is this announcement 436 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: Let's Crack the Zodiac episode five? I guess it's a 437 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: podcast or what is it? It's just like a YouTube 438 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: channel to YouTube series. Yeah, so right now it has 439 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: one point four million views, get approaching one point five. Um, 440 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: and here is what it says. I hope you're having 441 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: lots of fun and trying to catch me. That wasn't 442 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: me on the TV show, which brings up a point 443 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: about me. I'm not afraid the gas chamber because it 444 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: will send me to Paradise all the sooner because I 445 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: now have enough slaves to work for me where everyone 446 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: else has nothing. When they reach Paradise, keep spelling paradise 447 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: with a sea at the end, which is interesting. Yeah, 448 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: so they are afraid of death. I am not afraid 449 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: because I know that my new life is um lit 450 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: some like you know, weird anachronistic grammar and spellings all 451 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: throughout this life will be an easy one in paradise death. Yeah, 452 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: I yes, interesting stuff, right, I mean he's talked about, 453 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: at least in previous communications, z or Zodiac talked about 454 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: gathering slaves and his belief, at least his stated belief 455 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: that when he kills an individual, they become his slave 456 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: in the afterlife. Talked about that a lot, and that 457 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: was at least what he claimed. That was one of 458 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: his motivations that he claimed. Um Again, it's hard to 459 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: know because all we have are these messages that are 460 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: essentially taunts. Right that he could be really what he thinks, 461 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: really what he means, or he could just be talking 462 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff, or he might not have that 463 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: line of consistency, which is something we see happen pretty often. Right, 464 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: people's stated motivations for doing something will change, and they 465 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: don't feel like they're lying because they're already so unstable 466 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: that whatever feels like the truth to them at that 467 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: moment is the truth. Very possibly but the coolest things 468 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: about this that you know on further looking at it, 469 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: because I didn't see the thing about the TV show 470 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: that's that's a huge standout. Uh. There was an incident 471 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: on this this show called the Jim Dunbar Show where 472 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: an attorney named Melvin bell I went on there and 473 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: they were taking calls essentially trying to get Zodiac to 474 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: call into the show, and someone called in claiming to 475 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: be Zodiac and they specifically mentioned that they were afraid 476 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: they didn't want to go to the gas chamber essentially, 477 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: So this in the timeline matches up by the way, 478 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: for this to be sent pretty soon after that incident 479 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: on the Jim Dunbar Show. So the concept here that 480 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: the Zodiac is replying to that instance saying that's not me. 481 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: I'm not afraid of the gas chamber. It wasn't me 482 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: on the TV show. That is fascinating and it further 483 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: solidifies that this is the actual Zodiac. Why do that, 484 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: particularly in such a difficult to crack code. If you're 485 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: if you're trying to respond to something that you see 486 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: as like an affront to your whole thing, Well, in 487 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: a weird way, it's it's an intellectual game that's being 488 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: played here. There's time like the amount of time that 489 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: it would take to solve this. Even if you were 490 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: successful at solving it's going to take you a lot 491 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: longer to do that. Um. It speaks to your the 492 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: character that you are building as this your real killer 493 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: because really, if if I learned anything about Zodiac, it's 494 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: that it's a person who needed attention terribly, like craved 495 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: it and needed it even when they're killing people. Yeah, 496 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: can we really quickly talk about why ciphers like this 497 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: are so difficult to decode? Um? Because because I mean, 498 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: what ended up happening I believe was a combination of 499 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: algorithmic technology and human U involvement. And you know, we 500 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about things like this on the show plenty 501 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: um and they're just not easy. And I guess it's 502 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: because each set of characters is generated by an individual, 503 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: and so it's difficult to you know, there's there's like 504 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: so many combinations and potential possibilities that it's difficult. It's 505 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: like running, it's like doing a brute force attack on 506 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 1: a password or something like. It's not easy, but it's 507 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: even more difficult than that. Well, there are a couple 508 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: of aspects here. First, I want to get back to um, 509 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: Sorry I should have been more clear. I want to 510 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: get back to what I was saying. The there's to 511 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: add to your point, Matt, because I don't want to 512 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: lose it. Uh. There's also a mark of authenticity that 513 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: comes through in these ciphers, which is very big. Right 514 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: for the question or the remarks you're you're having to 515 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: about the cipher. What's what's fascinating is not just the 516 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: process of cracking it, but how like the questions about 517 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: the typos are they a are they themselves and encoding 518 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: error on the on the side of zodiac or are 519 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: they purposefully meant to make the code more difficult? Uh? 520 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: And also process aside. One of the one of the 521 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: most amazing things, at least to me about this is 522 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: that they were able to not just cracked the cipher 523 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: and this something I want to throw to you, Matt, 524 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: is but they were also able to find an example 525 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: of something like this cipher in a military man Wolf 526 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: from the nineteen fifties. Yes, but they did that after 527 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: they cracked the code, right m hm. Yes, but it 528 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: was kind of known for a while there that it 529 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: was military encryption that was being used as one of 530 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: the main things. There was also connection to military boots 531 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: of a couple other connections to someone possibly being former 532 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: military in the military or at least an enthusiast of 533 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: some kind of post you know, post use military store 534 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: or something like that. Who knows. But yeah, the encryption 535 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: was this one in particular did end up going back there. 536 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: And again it's a credit to David Ranshack and a 537 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: couple of their guys, Sam Blake, I think it's Yarrel 538 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: van Ike. That's another person from Belgium. They all worked 539 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: really really hard on this and the encryption is crazy. 540 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: The way they solved it. No, if I would just 541 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: recommend because I can't explain it to you right now 542 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: it's too difficult. But if you go and watch Let's 543 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: Crack Zodiac episode five on YouTube right now, David lays 544 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: out exactly what the algorithm is doing, what the human 545 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: input was like, how they actually changed a couple of things. 546 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: They did some cribbing on their own and then had 547 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: to manipulate the code itself to get to the right thing. 548 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: Because it's crazy, it's crazy, I will and I've been 549 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: um your point. I think it's really interesting. So you're saying, 550 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: perhaps the zodiac made those end uh typos on purpose 551 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: to throw off an algorithm or to throw off like 552 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: pattern recognition, because we wouldn't read as a certain word 553 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: anymore or a certain sequence. I've said, it's it's possible. Uh, 554 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: it's just one of the many things I learned from 555 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: checking out monster. It's true, like, uh, yeah, that's one thing. 556 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: But then the reason that stays in the realm of 557 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: speculation is because we would have to some degree gauge intent. 558 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: So it could be a purposeful kind of red airring 559 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: to throw a little obstacle to bake into the labyrinth there, 560 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: or it could be an honest mistake because these are 561 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: pretty complex ciphers, you know what I mean. This is 562 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: big pay at and lay Well, it does seem that 563 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: that there was one line that was shifted over by 564 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: a character, and that seemed I don't know if that 565 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: was done in error. Maybe it was again another booby 566 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: trap essentially, um, but that could have been a mistake. UM. 567 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: And he misspelled things in his regular correspondence all the time, 568 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: whoever zodiac was. But Christmas with two s is like 569 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: the Paradise thing was spelled with a ce a ton 570 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: and when he's actually writing it out, so you know, misspelling, 571 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: I think is a common thing for whoever this person 572 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: was um and either being a terrible speller or doing 573 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: it on purpose, I don't know. A lot of the 574 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: experts pointed to to the belief that he was doing 575 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: it on purpose. Oh, and the FBI is fully acknowledged this, uh, 576 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: this cracking of the code and made a statement the 577 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: San Francisco Division of the FBI. The FBI is aware 578 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: that a cipher attributed to the Zodiac Killer was recently 579 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: solved by private citizens. The Zodiac Killer case remains on 580 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation for the FBI San Francisco Division and 581 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: our local law enforcement partners. The Zodiac Killer terrorized multiple 582 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: communities across northern California, and even though decades have gone by, 583 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: we continue to see justice for the victims of these 584 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: brutal crimes. Due to the ongoing nature of the investigation 585 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 1: and out of respect for the victims and their families, 586 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,479 Speaker 1: we will not be providing further comment at this time. Yeah, 587 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: it's true, it's an ongoing case and if you try 588 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: and talk to the San Francisco Police department as there 589 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,879 Speaker 1: the whole injustice. They're just like, nah, no, we can't 590 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: talk about it. Sorry, And then you past them for 591 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: a long time and they're like nah, because there's there's 592 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: a possibility, you know, that there are other murders that 593 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: might eventually be tied in with it might be the 594 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: person's work, and there's of course the possibility that that 595 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: person uh may still somehow you alive. There is a possibility, 596 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: but it's like not a major possibility, right, but it's 597 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: but it's cool to because there is, right, I mean, 598 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: we can't discount it. A lot of the major, the 599 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: major people who would have been considered suspects have passed already. Um, 600 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,800 Speaker 1: just so you guys know, right before this recording, I 601 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: talked to Michael Butterfield, uh, the our zodiac expert that 602 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: we talked to for a monster, the Zodiac Killer, and 603 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: he had just spoken with with David ran Chack, and 604 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: he did some great writing on Zodiac killer facts dot com. Uh, 605 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: there's a huge article on there where he goes over 606 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the details and if anybody's interested, you 607 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: can basically click through links for a long time on 608 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: that and see everything you'd want to find out about it, 609 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: and big, big shout out to Michael Butterfield for always 610 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: being right on the money with his his writing and research. Um. 611 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean this time obviously goes without saying, 612 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: but there is no statute of limitation Zonne murder. So 613 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: the SFPD will I'm sorry that whatever, yeah to them, 614 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: but also the PI will continue to not talk about 615 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: this until there's a break in the case, and even 616 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: if that person is dead, you know, they will contend. 617 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's fascinating that aspect of detective 618 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: work and law enforcement, that like that doggedness that was requires, 619 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: like you understand why they want to check off cases 620 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: and close cases and and and pin things on people 621 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: because otherwise it's just out there. You know, everybody wants closure. 622 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, you're so right. Can I can I 623 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: just just say one more thing, you guys in the 624 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: in the actual written out portion that was solved thereby 625 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: Ranchack and the fellows, so they had to transpose the 626 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: characters before they actually then tried to solve it. So 627 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: there's a multi part there's a multi step way to 628 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,760 Speaker 1: solve this thing. They found that life is was written 629 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: out on the top right hand side of the thing, 630 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: and they just excluded that from the rest of the 631 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: solve that they put through for the cipher, and David's 632 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: initial concept was to put it after that my new 633 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: and then they just inserted life is there. I think 634 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: that's incorrect. I think it should say I am not 635 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: afraid because I know that my new and then it 636 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: would go to the next line, life will be an 637 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: easy one in Paradise. Then that life is would be 638 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: inserted there where it is. That's the end um life 639 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: will be an easy one in Paradise. New line life 640 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: is death. That's I think what it would because I 641 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: think what it was, because that is what is it now. 642 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: It's just is death, right. It says that my new 643 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: life is life will be an easy one in Paradise 644 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: death in Paradise death. That's right. I thought. I remember 645 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: that feeling anachronistic there at the end, like there was 646 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: something missing. That's that's that's good. He he would do 647 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: that all the time, and the other ones that were solved, 648 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: it just it felt like that's not the end of 649 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: a sentence. That's like a whole new thought, and he 650 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 1: would just put him in weird places. So just a 651 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: concept I'm may be wrong. No, that sense makes a 652 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: lot of sense to me. Um And and kudos to 653 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: the team behind this for for cracking this obviously fascinating 654 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: to a lot of people that have been following this 655 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: case for so long. Um And who knows, maybe there 656 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: could be more breaks, but um, I think it's time 657 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: to take another break of our own. Huh. And then 658 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:39,919 Speaker 1: we'll be back with more listener mail. And we have returned. 659 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: This is this is a fascinating one. It's one that's 660 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: a Matt and I were gosh, Matt, you you say 661 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: that we touched on this at some points, uh? And 662 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: I honestly I don't remember whether we did or not, 663 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: but I thought this would be interesting to our sound nerds, 664 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: our conspiracy realist and our our our hurts fans in 665 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: the why why not? I think I think no one 666 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: might recall it better even than us, just because I 667 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: called it something wrong? What did I call this something wrong? Ben? What? 668 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: What is it? The Devil's try tone, Devil's interval? But 669 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: here's no spoilers. I don't want to give everybody along prologue. OK, 670 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: let's let's go ahead and play it. Please, let's hear 671 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: this one Yo, what's up, Fellas. My name is Keith. 672 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: I'm calling from Chicago, musician out here and Matt said 673 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: something on the air the other day about pop ps 674 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: in the microphone and I left it on the review. 675 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: But those are called plosives. Cool term I learned when 676 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: I was studying music in college. Anyways, UM, the other 677 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to know is if you guys have 678 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: ever done a show on the conspiracy that we tune 679 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,759 Speaker 1: the pitch of A to four hundred and forty hurts 680 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: and there is, you know, conspiracy theories that the Nazis 681 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: wanted that to be the tone because it causes a 682 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: little more dissonance between the animals. Now, UM, a lot 683 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: of the time, people you'll see videos on YouTube and 684 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: such that if you tune to four three to thirty 685 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 1: two hurts, that you get a much calmer and cleaner tone. UM. 686 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: I have honestly not done much for research into this, 687 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,000 Speaker 1: but I do find it interesting because comparatively, when you 688 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: play two different pieces at those different tunings, you notice 689 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: a sound. UM. I think it's a cool concept. I 690 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have touched on it. Once again, man, 691 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: my name is Keith, calling from Chicago. You guys are 692 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: great from Chicago, So Keith Uh, first off, thank you 693 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: so much. We are in the world of podcasting. We're 694 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: very well aware of closives, the popped pas and the 695 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: bupped bees. Bupped is a word I just made up 696 00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: that will work, But sure, and the UH. The thing 697 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,439 Speaker 1: that's interesting about this is we've there's there are quite 698 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: a few conspiracies in the world of sound, Matt Miell. 699 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I wanted to share this 700 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: hall with you today. We've talked about the brown note 701 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: in the past, and we've talked about the ways in 702 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: which sound and frequencies can uh you can influence the 703 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: human mind and past a certain threshold, do physiological damage 704 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: to people. But but at this point, what's fascinating about 705 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: this is that this is a tremendously like popular conspiracy 706 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: UH theory, and it ties into a couple of different things. 707 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: I believe Keith that you said tuning was it for 708 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: I think you've been to say four D and forty 709 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: the standard for middle A. Yeah, and then you'll see 710 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: these You'll see tons of if you just a cursory 711 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: search on YouTube, you'll see tons of things about tuning 712 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: a to order in thirty two hurts gives it some 713 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,719 Speaker 1: sort of assumed uh medicinal properties like healing or soothing properties, 714 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 1: and that the entire reason we have four dred and 715 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,720 Speaker 1: forty hurts is because of Joseph Garbel's, the Nazi Minister 716 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: of propaganda. So first questions for you guys on you 717 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: heard it before, Uh, to where do you think it 718 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: comes from? I had not heard this before, but in 719 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: listening to Keith, I immediately started googling it and found 720 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: a great article um from Global News dot c A 721 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: about the great four or forty Hurts conspiracy. And uh, 722 00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: this is right at my alley because I'm really in 723 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 1: particular into synthesis and like electronic music, and so the 724 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: idea of like hurts and tuning is really fascinating because 725 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: you can, like, if you play two tones that are 726 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: just slightly de tuned by the intervals that we're talking about. 727 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: These aren't even whole step intervals. These are like micro 728 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: tones basically, So like you can play four forty along 729 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: with like a four four thirty seven and you'll get 730 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of phasing and this sentence and kind 731 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: of like almost a CHORUSI effect. But they're not like 732 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: two completely different notes. They're like almost the notes in 733 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: between the notes. And we can talk more about microtones 734 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: and stuff as we go. But I think this is fascinating, 735 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,400 Speaker 1: and it's the idea, the notion that Girbel's had is 736 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: that it would make people more aggressive. Isn't that right? Yeah, yeah, 737 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,319 Speaker 1: let's dig into it. Matt. You've said, however, that you 738 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: had heard, you had heard something like this before. This 739 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 1: is not something I've delved very deeply into. I had 740 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: heard the rumors online, usually on message boards where I've 741 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: seen it where somebody is, you know, purporting to or 742 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: claiming that the four or forty thing was a sinister 743 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 1: move um tim to make things more minor and to 744 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 1: put more tension just in the public sphere, essentially to 745 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: make things just more overly sinister. Yeah, but but again 746 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: it didn't feel it never felt like, I don't know 747 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,479 Speaker 1: a way to make any change. I guess like, let's 748 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: d tune these things a little bit. Yeah, like it's 749 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: it's weaponizing music. Right to your point, Noll, there's this 750 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: the So the conspiracy lore is that once upon a 751 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 1: very dark time, then Nazi Minister of Propaganda Joseph Garrible's said, 752 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,239 Speaker 1: we are gonna tune everything to four forty hurts because 753 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,919 Speaker 1: this makes them a prisoner of their consciousness. And then 754 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: later in line with this story, there's the idea that 755 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: the Rockefeller Foundation forced the US overall, every part of 756 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: the US to adopt the four forty hurt standard in 757 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 1: to lead to a musical cult controls. So the ideas 758 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: that you can you can turn up the notch on 759 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: people's agitation in their mental state through this very subtle way, uh, 760 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 1: this subtle thing that they won't notice, but it will 761 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,799 Speaker 1: change their their behavior. We do know that music can 762 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: be used to uh well sometimes it's called a prime 763 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: people to make them more likely to do or not 764 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:14,160 Speaker 1: to do certain things. But it seems, I mean, Keith, 765 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: this is fascinating to me. But it seems it seems 766 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: a little um God who is true would be incredibly complicated, 767 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: wouldn't it or would it be complicated? Well, I want 768 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: to just clarify something I said at the top. I 769 00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: said that the difference between like say, four forty and 770 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: four thirty eight isn't as perceptible to the ear as 771 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: as like four forty and four thirty two. For example, 772 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,960 Speaker 1: but that's not entirely true. It's sort of like overstating 773 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: the case because but when you're talking about hurts and 774 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: and tonal scales, they're divided up into micro tones, and 775 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,360 Speaker 1: there's twelve I'm sorry, semi tones, and and an octave 776 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: is a range of twelve semi tones in between two 777 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: steps in a scale, and that is divided into one 778 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: hundred songs, which is like a smaller unit of measurement 779 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,839 Speaker 1: between those scales. So the difference between four forty and 780 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: four thirty two is actually thirty two songs. So a 781 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: single salt D tuning between two notes would create more 782 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: of that phasey kind of cool effect that I was 783 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: talking about. But thirty two songs is gonna be like 784 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,919 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of a couple of whole steps are 785 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: like you know, it's it's two completely different tuning standards. 786 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: So I don't want to overstate the case there with 787 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: what I said you want to clarify. But I think 788 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,919 Speaker 1: the reason this is interesting to me is because it's 789 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,799 Speaker 1: changing the foundation, so everything else changes around it. Right, 790 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: So it's it's not changing the relationship between notes, it's 791 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,319 Speaker 1: just changing the like um standard around which every other 792 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: interval is based, so four thirty two would actually be 793 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,120 Speaker 1: lower in pitch than four forty, but that just means 794 00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: that the whole thing is lower and the standard is lower, 795 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,880 Speaker 1: so you can still play every note in the scale 796 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,480 Speaker 1: as high as you want to go. So that's why 797 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,400 Speaker 1: the idea of this having some sort of like, I mean, 798 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,840 Speaker 1: I can understand different intervals make you feel things like 799 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: the idea of a blue note and a scale makes 800 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,279 Speaker 1: you feel sad, or there are things in music that 801 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 1: can communicate ideas um like you know, the hero's victory 802 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: and using different numerology and having them built up. But 803 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: that has to be built into intervals, not just a 804 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:30,359 Speaker 1: single standardized fundamental that everything else is built around. So 805 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: that part confuses me a little bit as a musician. 806 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: I would love to hear Keith's perspective on that how 807 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: that you know works because it gets so nuts, because 808 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 1: the reasoning behind this will also bring in numerology, saying that, 809 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,080 Speaker 1: for instance, the number four and in thirty two itself 810 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: has special properties because it is the some of four 811 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,359 Speaker 1: consecutive prime numbers one oh three, one oh seven, one 812 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: oh nine, one one three. For anybody interested in that, uh, 813 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 1: and then there's the idea that it is somehow operating 814 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: on a different chakra that for forty works on the 815 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,359 Speaker 1: third eye chakra, the thinking chakra, and four thirty two 816 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: simulates what's called the heart or the feeling chakra. However, 817 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,919 Speaker 1: I should say before you get to however, you will 818 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:25,600 Speaker 1: also see people arguing that, uh, there should be a 819 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,360 Speaker 1: different It shouldn't be four thirty two at all, that 820 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: the healthy setting should actually be five eight. And it's 821 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 1: also based on these things you're a little bit difficult 822 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: to prove. I found this show called Exposing pseudo Astronomy 823 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,319 Speaker 1: podcast which I thought was really interesting. In episode one 824 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,439 Speaker 1: forty one, they dive into this and Keith I would 825 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,080 Speaker 1: recommend I tend to read things more than I listened 826 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,880 Speaker 1: to them. So there there's great writing about this. But 827 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 1: if you're looking for stuff, I would recommend checking out 828 00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,879 Speaker 1: the podcast, give us a call back. Let's no weight 829 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: think of it. But this this person reads into this 830 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,080 Speaker 1: and they pointed out something that I think a lot 831 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: escapes a lot of us, which is first just science 832 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: aside when we exercise our critical thinking here, wouldn't this 833 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: mainly only apply to Western music? So wouldn't would it 834 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 1: be somewhat kind of uh eurocentric there, like this conspiracy 835 00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,560 Speaker 1: couldn't even if the Nazis did it, he couldn't work 836 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,600 Speaker 1: in other areas of the world. Right, not to mention this. 837 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: I was reading on message board, and there's a lot 838 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,720 Speaker 1: of things to consider us to which UM tuning standard 839 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:40,759 Speaker 1: works best, and a lot of it is practical things 840 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,480 Speaker 1: like violins only have four strings, and if you started, 841 00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,200 Speaker 1: like changing the standard of tuning to be much higher, 842 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: those strings are going to be too tight and they're 843 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: not going to generate the proper freedom of vibration to 844 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: get the purest tone. So like, if you had to 845 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: tune a violin up, you're tuning it to tighten the 846 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,080 Speaker 1: string and it's not going to vibrate as freely and 847 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: it's not going to be as pleasing to listen. To 848 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: say the same with the guitar, like you can use 849 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: a capo, which like literally bars over the fret to 850 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 1: make it tire, But when you start tuning a guitar 851 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 1: up by actually tightening the strings, it changes the fundamental 852 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:22,240 Speaker 1: quality of the strings and how they interact scientifically. So uh, 853 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: it matters, right, And I think that's where the big 854 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: argument was between like France and and uh in different 855 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: parts of In Austria, for example, there was a disagreement 856 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,680 Speaker 1: between the French and the Austrians as to the standard 857 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,239 Speaker 1: and it came down to the fundamentals of like how 858 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,840 Speaker 1: a string actually vibrates, the optimum condition for the string 859 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: to give the best sound. There are other things we could, 860 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 1: like let's look at it from all angles. So there's 861 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,760 Speaker 1: another scientific aspect here. The idea that a vibration could 862 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: the main argument is that affects the mind. Right, that's 863 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,440 Speaker 1: the that there is some insidious plan to me. People 864 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 1: just kind of uptight, antsy and ready to tangle, right, 865 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,080 Speaker 1: give them that late night at a bar on during 866 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:12,120 Speaker 1: Marty Gras energy. So wait, now, that's unfair to Marty 867 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,239 Speaker 1: Gras late night at a bar at the end of 868 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,440 Speaker 1: a punk show energy. That's what they're saying. This this 869 00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: will do. But the human body is huge, and it's 870 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: composed of tiny molecules in different arrangements, different sizes, and 871 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:34,480 Speaker 1: a vibration, a single vibration, if it could affect the 872 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,759 Speaker 1: at least the human body at a profound level like this, 873 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: then we would be going crazy all of the time 874 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: because we are around so many sounds and vibrations that 875 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,879 Speaker 1: we do not often consciously register, right, So that's that's 876 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: fascinating to me here. But there's also a study I 877 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 1: checked out that you might find interesting, Keith. It was 878 00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,000 Speaker 1: published in the National Library of Medicine. You can find 879 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: in a pub med dot gov so scientific papers. So 880 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,359 Speaker 1: the title is super Sexy Right music tuned to four 881 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,560 Speaker 1: forty hurts versus four thirty two and the Health Effects 882 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: Colan a double blind crossover pilots study. Here's what they did. 883 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 1: They took thirty three volunteers with no pre existing conditions, 884 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:24,680 Speaker 1: no acute UH and or chronic diseases, right, and they 885 00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: had them each to two sessions of music listening on 886 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:32,239 Speaker 1: different days. Both used the same music movie soundtracks, but 887 00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,720 Speaker 1: one day it was tuned to four forty and another 888 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: day to four thirty two. And this these sessions were 889 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: twenty minutes long. And what they found is the data 890 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: suggests quote that four hundred and thirty two hurts tuned 891 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,640 Speaker 1: music can decrease heart rate more than four forty hurts 892 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: tuned music. The study results suggest repeating the experiment with 893 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:57,840 Speaker 1: a larger sample pool and introducing randomized controlled trials covering 894 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: more clinical parameters. So at least one studies said there 895 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,239 Speaker 1: might be something nicer about four thirty two, although you 896 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: can see a lot of problems with that study to 897 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: it and I while we were talking, I just found 898 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: a site, all right. It was on the same article 899 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: that we were referencing, the Global News site, and it 900 00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,799 Speaker 1: has two versions of the song the Scientists by cold Play, 901 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: one of them out standard for forty and one of 902 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,480 Speaker 1: them at four thirty two. If this is correct, then 903 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,680 Speaker 1: the difference between four forty and four thirty two is 904 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 1: much more subtle. It's more like what I was originally 905 00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,759 Speaker 1: saying than what I backtracked on the second time, because 906 00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,359 Speaker 1: when you play them at the same time, it gives 907 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,560 Speaker 1: this nice, gentle phasing effect. And if you play them 908 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,160 Speaker 1: one after the other, one just sounds ever so slightly 909 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,960 Speaker 1: lower than the other, and it doesn't like change the 910 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: whole tuning or the whole like feel of the thing. 911 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: But if you play them at the same time, they're 912 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,920 Speaker 1: just fairly different to the point where they still can 913 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,160 Speaker 1: coexist and just create this kind of warm phasing effect. 914 00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,560 Speaker 1: And that's actually something that we do in music production 915 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,479 Speaker 1: a lot, or in synthesis if you have two synth 916 00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,280 Speaker 1: tones playing at the same time, if you de tune 917 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,640 Speaker 1: one of them slightly, you keep playing them at the 918 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:08,160 Speaker 1: same time. It just makes it sound fatter, it makes 919 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,520 Speaker 1: it sound more lush, and it almost has this like that. 920 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 1: We call it a chorusing effect um and it's something 921 00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: that's that's applied in music production a lot. So UM. 922 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,399 Speaker 1: I really would recommend listeners check out this Global News 923 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,560 Speaker 1: article of a great four or forty hurts conspiracy and 924 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:25,839 Speaker 1: why All Our Music is Wrong by Alan Cross because 925 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,320 Speaker 1: it's got some good Uh, it's got some good examples 926 00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,920 Speaker 1: on there that we can't afford to play on the podcast. 927 00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,200 Speaker 1: Oh I should, yeah, I should mention the authors of 928 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:39,080 Speaker 1: that study too. That's the Letta Calabossi and John Paolo Pomponium. 929 00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: So what I was asking about that study is what 930 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,200 Speaker 1: do you guys think about that? Like do you feel 931 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:46,760 Speaker 1: I mean, their problems with it, but do you think 932 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,719 Speaker 1: that it's there's something inherent to those tones that makes 933 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,840 Speaker 1: people have a lower heart rate or is it just 934 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,200 Speaker 1: something else that happened in the course of the study. 935 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,520 Speaker 1: It's the golden ratio. I would think something else likely 936 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,320 Speaker 1: everything that I've seen tends to categorize this as pseudo 937 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,759 Speaker 1: science a little bit um, but that's just no. What No, 938 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: the golden ratio, nol. I do love that aspect of it, 939 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,120 Speaker 1: which which one is is for forty the golden ratio 940 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,000 Speaker 1: or no. That's fascinating and I do love that, and 941 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:18,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't make me think, like, why why did we 942 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: pick for forty if thirty two is present in nature? 943 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,560 Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, it was to throw off 944 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,239 Speaker 1: the balance and only those in the know would use 945 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: four thirty two so they could create the pyramids. Yeah, yeah, 946 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,359 Speaker 1: that's right, But I mean this gosh, man, to think 947 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,759 Speaker 1: about that. Imagine if the actual tones of music were 948 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,480 Speaker 1: being hidden from us, Like it's just you know what 949 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's so tantalizing. It's like that, it's 950 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,960 Speaker 1: the thing you said before. It's just very good conspiracy, 951 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 1: like grade a choice meat, that kind of concept. Yeah. 952 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,759 Speaker 1: I can't believe it was so often thinking that we've 953 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 1: discussed this before, but I think it came back to 954 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,799 Speaker 1: the human residents. You guys, remember that the concept of 955 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: the heartbeat of the earth. It was super low frequency 956 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,680 Speaker 1: thing that we apparently can detect because of thunderstorms, of 957 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:22,080 Speaker 1: all things um, because they're sentient. Got you there, we 958 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: are there. It is um. But but some of the 959 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 1: mathematics I think are the most fascinating to the mathematics 960 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,640 Speaker 1: of it are fascinating to me. The being able to 961 00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 1: divide these frequencies in specific ways that are going to 962 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,440 Speaker 1: get you back down to this thing that feels to 963 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,200 Speaker 1: being more natural, I think for the for the Earth's patterns. Yeah, 964 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,000 Speaker 1: so this is I mean, Keith, you set us on 965 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,960 Speaker 1: a journey here. Massively appreciate it, and also massively appreciate 966 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:59,160 Speaker 1: Matt uh for oh that one, massively appreciate every match, 967 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,920 Speaker 1: say hi Matt in your lives, and massive things to 968 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 1: Dan for leading us through these are these are rabbit holes, 969 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,560 Speaker 1: were unraveling things that are still technically continually with without 970 00:58:11,640 --> 00:58:14,720 Speaker 1: the uh. The instrument conspiracy, I guess if it's real, 971 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: is still continuing. But totally can said one last tiny 972 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,400 Speaker 1: thing on the instrument stuff, only just a recommendation if 973 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,760 Speaker 1: listeners are interested. Um. There is something called microtonal music 974 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 1: which doesn't have the same like rigid like step adheration 975 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,240 Speaker 1: between notes. So there's a band that I love and 976 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:35,840 Speaker 1: I think I've talked about on the show called King 977 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Uh. And they have a 978 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,479 Speaker 1: record called Flying microtonal Banana where they essentially every song 979 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,360 Speaker 1: on it uses microtnes, which just means that instead of 980 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,920 Speaker 1: a whole step or a half step, it's every possible 981 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,560 Speaker 1: micro step in between. And it can make you feel different. 982 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: And it has sort of a Middle Eastern quality to 983 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,360 Speaker 1: it because sit ours, for example, have microtnes and a 984 00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: lot of Eastern instruments use microtones. So this idea of 985 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,400 Speaker 1: like standardization and tuning to your point band is very 986 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,280 Speaker 1: much a Western thing. But absolutely that's that was absolute 987 00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,120 Speaker 1: ball for me, that discussion, So thank you very much 988 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: to the listener that sent that in. But we have 989 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,760 Speaker 1: one more surprise. We promised it at the top. We 990 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,040 Speaker 1: want to deliver you see, folks, as we were heading 991 00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: in to record listener mail today, we realized that we 992 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:27,520 Speaker 1: owe a huge shout out to the Bacologists on Instagram, 993 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: the proprietor of Atlanta's own Bacology Cookies and Cakes. I'm 994 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,800 Speaker 1: showing you guys the box. Uh. A few months or 995 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,200 Speaker 1: a few months or weeks ago, sorry sorry Bay College. 996 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,320 Speaker 1: You had you had contacted me to ask if we 997 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: had some sort of mailing address, and you know, typically said, well, 998 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,640 Speaker 1: you can send stuff to our office, but never feel obligated. 999 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,400 Speaker 1: And so we got these cookies from the bacologists themselves 1000 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: that are absolute works of art. We were talking about this. 1001 00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't even want to eat any of these, but 1002 00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:01,760 Speaker 1: we gotta figure out how to divvy these up, guys. 1003 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,480 Speaker 1: So here's the first one. Can see. It's an chas 1004 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,280 Speaker 1: h if you didn't already use your imagination to put 1005 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,720 Speaker 1: that together, it's a Christmas tree where the top is 1006 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,840 Speaker 1: an eye y'all seeing Illuminati I. And then next we 1007 01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:23,720 Speaker 1: have this, uh, we have this fantastic Happy Holidays, which 1008 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:26,240 Speaker 1: appears let me try to get the light here better. Okay, 1009 01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:31,560 Speaker 1: it appears to be some sort of kim trail sprouting plane, 1010 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,760 Speaker 1: which is perfect. Sky Blue got of course the stuff 1011 01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,280 Speaker 1: they don't want you to your logo on this cookie. 1012 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: These are all these are all pretty amazing. And then 1013 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:47,520 Speaker 1: I got this UFO thing. I thought like that, like, 1014 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,600 Speaker 1: these are works of art, and then a Q and on, 1015 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:51,959 Speaker 1: a very classy Q and on. This is the most 1016 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,560 Speaker 1: classy thing to happen to qu on on Ever, it's 1017 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:56,440 Speaker 1: a Christmas cue though it's guy, it's like a candy 1018 01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 1: striped candy Kane. And then and then I got a 1019 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,520 Speaker 1: and then we got a big Foot cookie, which is 1020 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:10,720 Speaker 1: just like classic side profile. I don't think any of 1021 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,840 Speaker 1: us want to eat eat these. And we were talking 1022 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,120 Speaker 1: off Mike about how isn't there a thing you can 1023 01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,480 Speaker 1: do to like preserve a cookie and make it a 1024 01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,040 Speaker 1: Christmas ornament. Matt, you chime to you seem to think 1025 01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:22,760 Speaker 1: the answer is yes, yeah, sure, you cover anything with 1026 01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, certain clearer substances that are very hard, you 1027 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,080 Speaker 1: can you can preserve it enough. No ding on your 1028 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:32,720 Speaker 1: baking skills in terms of the taste. But these are 1029 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,880 Speaker 1: absolutely works of art and I think we would all 1030 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,680 Speaker 1: benefit from the much more as a as as tree ornaments. 1031 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,960 Speaker 1: Then I'm going to eat at least two. Okay, sorry, 1032 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:43,360 Speaker 1: well we are. We're going to call it a day 1033 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,280 Speaker 1: because we have to divvy up these cookies for posterity. 1034 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,200 Speaker 1: But thank you so much to the bacologists. Thank you 1035 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,760 Speaker 1: so much to everybody who takes time out of the 1036 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 1: day to check out the show, to write to us, 1037 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,480 Speaker 1: to share stories with fellow listeners. If you want to 1038 01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,919 Speaker 1: be part of the conversation, find us on Instagram, find 1039 01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,120 Speaker 1: us on Facebook, find us on Twitter. I love to 1040 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,400 Speaker 1: recommend here's where it gets crazy. That's where you can 1041 01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 1: continue the conversation after the episode ends and we'll we'll 1042 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,560 Speaker 1: pop in there occasionally you might see us. Yeah, you 1043 01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,440 Speaker 1: can do that. You can also find uh us as 1044 01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,800 Speaker 1: individuals if you wish. I'm on Instagram at how Now, 1045 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, I am Matt and Bat Frederick Underscore iHeart. 1046 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,720 Speaker 1: Maybe that's the one. If you want to uh, if 1047 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:32,040 Speaker 1: you want to see my hot takes on relatively irrelevant things, 1048 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,120 Speaker 1: you can find me at ben Bullet h s W 1049 01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter. UH. If you want to write me directly 1050 01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,760 Speaker 1: with questions, then just give just shoot me a line 1051 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 1: on Instagram where I'm at ben Bullet. Hey, if you 1052 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,800 Speaker 1: want to contact us via phone, like several other people 1053 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:52,280 Speaker 1: did on this episode, please call one eight three three 1054 01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:57,200 Speaker 1: st d w y t K and we're happy to 1055 01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:01,840 Speaker 1: report that people continue to call include this person. My 1056 01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:05,800 Speaker 1: name is Optimus Tribe, leader of the Autobox from the 1057 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:11,360 Speaker 1: planet Cubertron. Yes, we are here and we're studying your 1058 01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,720 Speaker 1: culture to learn more about show. We've been listening to 1059 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:22,520 Speaker 1: your podcast. We approve auto Box, Transform and roll out 1060 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,120 Speaker 1: This is the kind of disclosure that I'm talking about, 1061 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,439 Speaker 1: really appreciated optimist Prime, How could you say no? Put 1062 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,760 Speaker 1: that in the reviews, Leave us a review if you want. 1063 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,680 Speaker 1: On Apple podcast. Every every little bit helps and we 1064 01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,280 Speaker 1: sure appreciate it. If none of that quite primes your optimists, 1065 01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:46,560 Speaker 1: then there's one way you can always know Matt saying yes, 1066 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,600 Speaker 1: we're going with it. There's one way you can always 1067 01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,000 Speaker 1: contact us wherever you are, whatever time it is. That 1068 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,120 Speaker 1: is our email address where we are conspiracy at iHeart 1069 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:17,760 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Yeah, stuff they don't want you to 1070 01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,600 Speaker 1: know is a production of I heart Radio. For more 1071 01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,400 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 1072 01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:26,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.