Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: A production of Iheartrading.
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. We're still humans. We're
Speaker 3: still humans.
Speaker 4: Going to say the way.
Speaker 5: Your phone, this is your found and my name is Matt.
Speaker 5: My name is Noah.
Speaker 2: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 2: super producer Alexis code named dot Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,
Speaker 2: you are you. You are here, and that makes this
Speaker 2: the stuff they don't want you to know. Big, big
Speaker 2: thank you to our fellow conspiracy realist who reached out
Speaker 2: all across the Internet through so many different platforms with
Speaker 2: some news of the strange variety that we're excited to
Speaker 2: explore with you this year. We're going to learn about
Speaker 2: alien corpses displayed to the lawmakers of Mexico. True story.
Speaker 2: We're going to catch you up on an upcoming memoir
Speaker 2: from a former secret Service agent around during the assassination
Speaker 2: of JFK. We're going to talk about nasal d congestion,
Speaker 2: which is a promised more interesting than it sounds, but
Speaker 2: we thought for this evening, we would open up with
Speaker 2: the JFK story. Assassination of JFK and anything related to
Speaker 2: it remains one of the most prevalent subjects of conspiracy
Speaker 2: theories in the world today, so it's no surprise that
Speaker 2: the latest news is of great, great interest.
Speaker 6: Did y'all read or watch The eleven twenty two sixty
Speaker 6: three by Stephen King?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, both both?
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 6: I did the audiobook of the book and then I
Speaker 6: watched the series about maybe three weeks ago.
Speaker 5: The series was fantastic.
Speaker 6: I know, James Franco is kind of like canceled, but
Speaker 6: I thought he's good when he's good man. When he's
Speaker 6: cast as sort of like an everyman, he fits the bill.
Speaker 6: He does a fine job, and I thought the things
Speaker 6: that I thought were heartwarming from the book they translated
Speaker 6: beautifully into the series. One thing I love about Stephen King,
Speaker 6: not to get too sidetracked, is that he just sets
Speaker 6: rules and doesn't explain himself. He's like, there's a portal
Speaker 6: in the closet, and that's that's just what it is.
Speaker 5: And I'm not going to tell you how.
Speaker 6: It got there or why it's there, but here's how
Speaker 6: it interfaces with the story, and I love it, and
Speaker 6: he's so entertaining that you never really questioned that. But
Speaker 6: I have a hard time remembering dates, So whenever I'm
Speaker 6: trying to describe this movie or series slash book to somebody,
Speaker 6: I have to google it. Eleven twenty two, sixty three
Speaker 6: is the day that John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas.
Speaker 6: And you're right, Ben, it really has been sort of
Speaker 6: like this high water mark, you know, American conspiracy about
Speaker 6: the Grassy Knoll. I get that a lot, and like
Speaker 6: the Second Shooter, the magic bullet theory, that's what we're
Speaker 6: talking about today, the idea that a single bullet ripped
Speaker 6: through JFK exited him, and then I believe entered the
Speaker 6: governor like through the wrists, and then somehow ended up,
Speaker 6: you know, out of their bodies, and you know, they
Speaker 6: captured it. But today we're talking about an update that's
Speaker 6: taken place sixty years later from a former Secret Service agent,
Speaker 6: You're right, Ben, by the name of Paul Landis, who
Speaker 6: I'm just gonna go ahead and lead with it.
Speaker 5: Somewhat suspiciously, has just come out with the book.
Speaker 6: So whenever someone's doing revelations about something that happened a
Speaker 6: long time ago, and they're coming out with a book.
Speaker 6: I'm always a little bit kind of hesitant to, oh,
Speaker 6: you're doing this out of the kindness of your heart.
Speaker 6: But this guy I heard an interview with him a
Speaker 6: couple of sources, and he essentially was one of the
Speaker 6: main Secret Service agents who was you know, the ones
Speaker 6: that are like running alongside, like jogging alongside the president motorcade.
Speaker 6: And he just flew into action when the shots were fired.
Speaker 6: It was obviously, if you were in that situation, a
Speaker 6: very traumatic, very very aggressively chaotic experience, You're not always
Speaker 6: going to be on your a game, you know, but
Speaker 6: these Secret Service agents is what they're trained to do.
Speaker 6: And he basically was one of the ones who shielded
Speaker 6: Jackie O.
Speaker 5: NASAs Kennedy.
Speaker 6: And he also realized that she wanted to stay with
Speaker 6: the president after he had been shot. But he realized
Speaker 6: that she had covered him because she didn't want anyone
Speaker 6: to see that he had been shot in the head.
Speaker 6: Like she really was clearly very concerned with people seeing this.
Speaker 6: And he told her, you can go, you can like
Speaker 6: take care of yourself. I'll do it, and he put
Speaker 6: his jacket over it. And he talks about all of
Speaker 6: this in these interviews surrounding the book, and he also
Speaker 6: talks about the fact that he found a bullet after
Speaker 6: all of the chaos of the event, they get to
Speaker 6: the emergency room. Right when they're loading the pre president
Speaker 6: and the governor onto gurney's, he finds lodged in the
Speaker 6: leather of the presidential limousine an unexploded bullet. And I
Speaker 6: want to ask you guys about this whole, like the
Speaker 6: state of the bullet. He acknowledges that it had rifle
Speaker 6: striations on it, which is one way they can match
Speaker 6: a bullet, you know, to a gun, because it has
Speaker 6: these like rifling marks on the side. And he, in
Speaker 6: his mind at the time, according to him now sixty
Speaker 6: years later, didn't want it to get lost, didn't want
Speaker 6: it to fall out of the car, so he put
Speaker 6: it in his pocket. And then here's where it gets
Speaker 6: really interesting. He says he was so kind of traumatized
Speaker 6: in the moment, this is a you know, a highly
Speaker 6: trained secret service agent, that he didn't tell anybody about it.
Speaker 6: He just placed it on the president's gurney and then
Speaker 6: never told.
Speaker 5: Anybody about it.
Speaker 6: And he said he was, he had nightmares about it.
Speaker 6: He intentionally didn't read anything about the theories or about
Speaker 6: the coverage or whatever, and he, I believe work with
Speaker 6: his partner for about six more months. I don't think
Speaker 6: he retired, but I can't really speak to that part
Speaker 6: of it. But he didn't tell anybody. I think that's
Speaker 6: so fascinating. And now sixty years later he's saying he
Speaker 6: found this bullet. He realized after the fact, not until
Speaker 6: I think twenty fourteen when he decided I'm gonna Someone
Speaker 6: gave him I think a book about all of the
Speaker 6: theories and he read it and he was like, oh no,
Speaker 6: they got it totally wrong, this magic bullet theory. There
Speaker 6: was another bullet and it was found on the Governor
Speaker 6: of Texas's gurney, and he feels like it rolled off
Speaker 6: of JFK's gurney onto the governor's gurney, and he feels
Speaker 6: like it was this whole kind of lynch pin in
Speaker 6: these incorrect theories.
Speaker 5: And I just think that's so yeah, please.
Speaker 3: Okay, So the co I just want to make sure
Speaker 3: I'm understanding it correctly. The magic bullet, right, is the
Speaker 3: concept that we've discussed for a long time on this show,
Speaker 3: that one single bullet, one magic bullet, is the one
Speaker 3: that represents the first time the president in the Zapruder
Speaker 3: film kind of leans down. Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you're right, Matt.
Speaker 3: Okay, And then there's a second bullet that killed John F.
Speaker 3: Kennedy when it hit him in the head.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, a head SHOT's got to be
Speaker 6: a direct shot. You're not going to get a head shot.
Speaker 5: From a bounce.
Speaker 6: You know, you might get injured or get some shrapnel
Speaker 6: or like a flesh wound, but a head shot, which
Speaker 6: is clearly what killed the president, has to be a
Speaker 6: very direct shot. And for a long time, you know,
Speaker 6: the War and Commission, which was the official party line
Speaker 6: on what happened, has been questioned because of what you're
Speaker 6: talking about, Matt, this magic bullet theory, that it doesn't
Speaker 6: make sense, and there have been, you know, many folks
Speaker 6: who have conjectured that there had to have been a
Speaker 6: second shooter for these trajectories to make.
Speaker 2: Sense, like ballistic lead I guess speaking.
Speaker 6: And now all of a sudden there's this other bullet,
Speaker 6: which again I'm not an expert on this. I'm not
Speaker 6: an expert in ballistics. I don't quite understand what it means.
Speaker 6: But I think what people are implying that it means,
Speaker 6: or will, at least the New York Times and Vanity
Speaker 6: Fair and this memoir are implying, is that it it
Speaker 6: sort of explains the magic bullet theory, that there was
Speaker 6: this other bullet that did a lot of those things,
Speaker 6: or did it in combination with a first shot. So
Speaker 6: this guy Landis who wrote the memoir and is now
Speaker 6: making the interview rounds. And I'm sorry, I don't mean
Speaker 6: to sound skeptical. He's an older He's an older man.
Speaker 6: He must be in his eighties now. He's in the Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 6: He's in the twilight of his life. He's decided he
Speaker 6: wants to tell his story. It just so happens that
Speaker 6: his story involves one of the most you know, insane
Speaker 6: conspiratorial events in American history. But understandably, what a lot
Speaker 6: of people who are interviewing him are asking is, why
Speaker 6: didn't you say anything at the time this second bullet
Speaker 6: or this other bullet that he found lodged in the seat.
Speaker 6: He said it was again unexploded.
Speaker 5: What does that mean? By the way, I mean, I
Speaker 5: sort of tease that.
Speaker 6: So like you have a shell casing, right, and then
Speaker 6: you have the bullet. But to find a completely intact bullet,
Speaker 6: isn't that sort of unusual?
Speaker 3: Well, it means the I whatever it impacted right after
Speaker 3: it's fired, it flies through the air, whatever it impacts,
Speaker 3: you didn't shatter it. Yeah, you think about when let's
Speaker 3: say law enforcement uses the ballistic gel right to test
Speaker 3: out the rifling or something like that on a bullet,
Speaker 3: Often that bullet isn't exploded, like it isn't turned into
Speaker 3: shrapnel metal, it is still intact somewhat.
Speaker 6: Ago would explode a bullet right ben a direct hit
Speaker 6: with like bone.
Speaker 2: So for this kind of the one that Land has
Speaker 2: found or says he found sixty years ago, it's it's
Speaker 2: like a it's got a copper jacket. I also don't
Speaker 2: I'm not tuned in enough to the ballistics to know
Speaker 2: what exactly they mean by an exploded bullet, because a
Speaker 2: lot of small arms ammunition doesn't really contain an explosive
Speaker 2: that would to the point where it be unexploded ordinance
Speaker 2: like you would say see in a military grade stuff.
Speaker 2: But I think you guys have a good lay of
Speaker 2: the land with the mystery, and I think there's also
Speaker 2: you know, tad On, just in full disclosure, I pre
Speaker 2: ordered this memoir a while back. It comes out in October,
Speaker 2: so well, hopefully we'll get a deep dive into it.
Speaker 2: But in addition to the idea, you're right to be
Speaker 2: skeptical about the concept of a We always have to
Speaker 2: ask the question, is this person just trying to sell
Speaker 2: a book in this case, I don't think so. Just
Speaker 2: the sense I get from you know, some of the
Speaker 2: articles you talked about, some of the interviews that I've
Speaker 2: heard shout out to Peter Baker at NYT the What
Speaker 2: what gets me is the problem of eyewitness recollection, even
Speaker 2: just two weeks after something happens versus you know, many decades.
Speaker 2: Because there's a moment where he talks about moving the
Speaker 2: bullet that he finds lodged in the back seat of
Speaker 2: the limo, correct in the backseat of that Lincoln Continental,
Speaker 2: and then he puts it on we get this right,
Speaker 2: puts it on Kennedy's stretcher, and so he's got shaken
Speaker 2: around and moved to uh, the Governor's stretcher. It's it's
Speaker 2: a pickle, but it's worth it's worth learning. Now, I
Speaker 2: don't know additional Could you tell me do they have
Speaker 2: the bullet?
Speaker 6: You know, I haven't actually heard anybody unequivocally say that
Speaker 6: they would have to have. His whole point was he
Speaker 6: slipped it in his pocket. He said he want he
Speaker 6: knew it was evidence, and he didn't want it to like,
Speaker 6: you know, in all of the hubbub fall out of
Speaker 6: the limo and like end up, you know. But again,
Speaker 6: it's weird, weird hearing him say that, because protocol would
Speaker 6: be they would have searched high and low for anything
Speaker 6: in that area.
Speaker 2: He also says he did this for reasons that are
Speaker 2: fuzzy even to himself at.
Speaker 6: This and he gave it an inaccurate account at the
Speaker 6: time that he has since recanted, and and said he
Speaker 6: heard three shots.
Speaker 5: In his original report.
Speaker 6: He said he never went into the not operating room
Speaker 6: or whatever the area where he could have put it
Speaker 6: on Kennedy's gurney. He says he never did that, but
Speaker 6: he now sixty years later, says he was under duress.
Speaker 6: He was again traumatized. I heard him interviewed on NBC
Speaker 6: or something, and he said, I thought it was very interesting.
Speaker 6: He said, I knew that if I looked at Kennedy's
Speaker 6: head wound that I would pass out. And I just
Speaker 6: thought that was a very interesting thing to say for
Speaker 6: someone who's so highly trained like that, you know, not
Speaker 6: that they're showing you all kinds of horrific you know,
Speaker 6: faces of death kind of thing to make sure you're
Speaker 6: not going to pass out, but you are trained to
Speaker 6: kind of be you know, made of sterner stuff. So
Speaker 6: for him to say that so many years later, I
Speaker 6: thought was interesting. He was he wouldn't look at the body,
Speaker 6: and he was looking he was thinking mainly of missus Kennedy.
Speaker 6: And he even talked about how he found a lighter,
Speaker 6: a Zippo lighter that had that was covered in blood
Speaker 6: and that had the presidential seal on it, and he thought, okay,
Speaker 6: this probably belonged to Jackie Kennedy, And he said, I
Speaker 6: don't think she would have wanted to see that, like
Speaker 6: her personal Zippo lighter covered in the blood of her husband,
Speaker 6: so she slipped that in his pocket too. But in
Speaker 6: everything I've read, and again you know, to your point, Bend,
Speaker 6: the memoir is not out yet, but in everything I've
Speaker 6: read and in the interview that I heard, he doesn't
Speaker 6: talk about who he.
Speaker 5: Gave that to. Maybe maybe he did say he.
Speaker 6: I just think it's weird that he put it on
Speaker 6: the gurney and didn't keep it in his pocket and
Speaker 6: then give it to investigators directly. I moved it because
Speaker 6: he shouldn't have moved it exactly to my point, they
Speaker 6: would have found it on the concrete ben That is
Speaker 6: a really good point. And I didn't fully even think
Speaker 6: about that he technically tampered with.
Speaker 5: A crime scene. I think that's very unusual.
Speaker 2: And to exercise, you know, just some empathy from his perspective.
Speaker 2: We haven't spoken to mister Landis herselves at this point.
Speaker 2: You know, imagine you're the Secret Service. Your entire job
Speaker 2: is to preserve the presidency. So there's not really way
Speaker 2: to articulate how crazy that must feel when things go
Speaker 2: so tragically wrong. No. One thing that stood out to
Speaker 2: me reading about this is that some historians and assassination
Speaker 2: I don't want to say enthusiast, that's good, people who've
Speaker 2: read widely about it. They're saying that if some of
Speaker 2: these statements are true, it reopens the question of a
Speaker 2: second shooter.
Speaker 5: That's right.
Speaker 6: I'm having a hard time remembering the gentleman's name, but
Speaker 6: a journalist who wrote a piece for Vanity Fair about
Speaker 6: this topic. He met with mister Landis. He said no
Speaker 6: less than fifteen times, because he realized that this guy
Speaker 6: is going to be the subject of intense questioning. You
Speaker 6: know at this point coming out with this information. I
Speaker 6: need to help him. Interesting this guy James Robinault's I
Speaker 6: just looked it up in the article from the New
Speaker 6: York Times. He I think he reached out to Landis
Speaker 6: and said, hey, man, you need a little media schooling,
Speaker 6: and I'm going to help you do that. And then
Speaker 6: he I think the memoir was already done. This guy
Speaker 6: didn't write the memoir.
Speaker 5: He just like, yeah, he.
Speaker 6: Wrote a profile of the memoir in Vanity Fair.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's a he's a Robinoults attorney. He's also
Speaker 2: written several books, not all necessarily about JFK. But I
Speaker 2: think the way I hear it most often described is
Speaker 2: he helped Landis process his memories is the word there's
Speaker 2: the phrase you'll see you'll see coming up a lot.
Speaker 2: I think it's It is fascinating because the majority of
Speaker 2: the US public to this day does not accept the
Speaker 2: official narrative here, and you can check out our earlier
Speaker 2: episodes to see why it is reasonable to question the
Speaker 2: you know, not just that assassination, but the series of
Speaker 2: assassinations that occurred immediately in the wake of it.
Speaker 6: So I guess my question to you, then, Ben, is
Speaker 6: this revelation if they did find the bullet, which they
Speaker 6: should have, but yet they found it on the governor's gurney,
Speaker 6: how does that change anything. Doesn't that mean there was
Speaker 6: a third shot, because that was one thing that landis
Speaker 6: In his original statement he said he heard two shots,
Speaker 6: but then later he was like in these interviews he's
Speaker 6: doing now at eighty eight years old, saying I heard
Speaker 6: three shots.
Speaker 5: And that's a big deal.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: Hearing three shots is like a big change in the narrative,
Speaker 6: I believe. But the fact that this bullet was in
Speaker 6: some way to your question, Ben, do they have the
Speaker 6: bullet or maybe Matt you asked that surely they do
Speaker 6: if it was found, and then that was entered into
Speaker 6: part of the narrative, Right, how does this really change anything?
Speaker 3: It would just potentially contradict the Warren Commission, and we're
Speaker 3: not allowed to contradict the Warren Commission. Guys, that's a
Speaker 3: conspiracy theory. Come on, we've learned that over time. Can
Speaker 3: I read a tiny, tiny paragraph from that Vanity Fair article,
Speaker 3: It just leaves it's something I didn't know. And this
Speaker 3: is when we're talking about how did Landis's recollections of
Speaker 3: what occurred? How did they get written down right?
Speaker 5: And that's what I'm asking exactly.
Speaker 6: Okay, so how was this entered into evidence? Including what
Speaker 6: happened with the bullet?
Speaker 3: So this is what James Robinaald is saying for Vanity Fair.
Speaker 3: The sad fact is that Landis, though required to provide
Speaker 3: his version of events to the Secret Service and in
Speaker 3: a second report to what would become the Warren Commission,
Speaker 3: he never sat for an interview before the FBI, and
Speaker 3: he never testified before the commission itself. He left the
Speaker 3: Secret Service months after the assassination and before the panel
Speaker 3: finished its work and issued its report. So he like,
Speaker 3: that is weird to me that he got out in between, right.
Speaker 6: And the statement that he did give was very procedural
Speaker 6: and not like a deep It wasn't someone really grilling him.
Speaker 6: It was just sort of like if you're a cop
Speaker 6: and you shoot somebody, they do a panel to determine
Speaker 6: whether it was like a legitimate shooting or not. And
Speaker 6: again that even probably involved more grilling than this did.
Speaker 6: This seemed to be procedural. He didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 6: He was just asked to make his statement so they
Speaker 6: could place it in the pile of statements about the event.
Speaker 3: And to your point, Ben, he was experiencing intense PTSD,
Speaker 3: at least according to his own account, which you can
Speaker 3: only imagine would be true.
Speaker 2: So the book is called The Final Witness, A Kennedy's
Speaker 2: Secret Service agent breaks his silence after sixty years. I'll
Speaker 2: dive in and you know, off air, give the scuty
Speaker 2: in the scoop right, and we'll see. We'll see. But
Speaker 2: it's an important story, I think, to your point, Noel,
Speaker 2: there's a reason that so many people still have so
Speaker 2: many questions, and it's not wrong to ask those questions.
Speaker 2: I would argue that it is the ethically correct thing
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 6: And I just want to add before we move on
Speaker 6: that his partner, who I mentioned earlier, Clint Hill, fully
Speaker 6: rejects his news story says it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 6: Clint Hill was the one who famously was photographed jumping
Speaker 6: onto the back of the limousine. He's like in like
Speaker 6: these iconic photos of the whole thing, and he now
Speaker 6: you know, also up there in age is saying, nah,
Speaker 6: none of that makes any sense. So that to me,
Speaker 6: in addition to the whole thing that he didn't say anything.
Speaker 6: I don't know what his motivation would be other than
Speaker 6: to sell books, but I think that's too ghost. That
Speaker 6: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 5: Usually, these people that we.
Speaker 6: Know that are lifelong public servants or people that are
Speaker 6: you know, put their life on the line to protect
Speaker 6: someone in power, you know, in American government, They're not
Speaker 6: going to just all of a sudden become gold diggers.
Speaker 6: Doesn't make sense to me. I just don't buy it.
Speaker 6: So maybe he's experiencing some dementia or something brought on
Speaker 6: by old age, and maybe there are some publishers that
Speaker 6: are taking advantage of that. There is part of me
Speaker 6: that thinks maybe that's true. But the PTSD angle is
Speaker 6: very interesting.
Speaker 5: All of this is very interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have to stay tuned.
Speaker 6: I guess it's may well once you've read the book
Speaker 6: then and again, I'm going to order rate as well,
Speaker 6: maybe worth a full episode. I'm interested to see what
Speaker 6: constitutes an entire book on this topic. But in any case,
Speaker 6: let's take a break, hear a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 6: and then come back with another piece of strange news.
Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone. It is September, mid of the septembers
Speaker 3: as we record this, the.
Speaker 5: Multiple septembers.
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know if anyone else is experiencing you know,
Speaker 3: a little, a little stuffiness. Yes, my family certainly is.
Speaker 3: And when my family is experiencing those kinds of things,
Speaker 3: we reach out well to the counter. We reach out
Speaker 3: to the counter, whatever pharmacy we find ourselves in over
Speaker 3: the counterpass it to you over the counter. No note,
Speaker 3: we reached directly to the counter, and the counter provides.
Speaker 3: That's what I always say, The counter provides.
Speaker 6: The counter given you've never said that, man says, I'm yes,
Speaker 6: and I'd be really silly.
Speaker 3: But the point is, when somebody in my family is
Speaker 3: feeling a little sick, we go out and we get
Speaker 3: something you can get over the counter, just that's sitting
Speaker 3: there on the shelf. You pick it up and it says, hey,
Speaker 3: this helps with making your nose less stuffy, and it
Speaker 3: helps you feel less bad when you got a little
Speaker 3: cold or show.
Speaker 6: It has a graphic on the front of it that's
Speaker 6: got like predator like vision, you know, like the you know,
Speaker 6: heat seeking kind of vision where it's like targets.
Speaker 5: Your nasal cavity. He's like, this is what his pill will.
Speaker 3: Do for you.
Speaker 6: This is what this is gonna do. You're fine, look
Speaker 6: at the picture.
Speaker 5: Believe us.
Speaker 3: Yes, And since, guys, since I've been an adult, I've
Speaker 3: been using pretty much the same ones. Oh, pretty much
Speaker 3: the same ones, I think. Yeah, right after college, right
Speaker 3: around that time, been using the things that they'll put
Speaker 3: pe at the end. If it's like a pseudo fed
Speaker 3: or just a standard day quill niquill.
Speaker 5: What is P stand for?
Speaker 2: Uh, well, finnling? Is that correct?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Is that the math stuff?
Speaker 3: No, it is not.
Speaker 5: It is in some of some.
Speaker 6: Of these drugs are now you have to like show
Speaker 6: your ID to get them because they have some what
Speaker 6: do they call it pseudo pseudoaphagrine?
Speaker 2: I believe pseudophedrine is another one.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes, we are going to get to all that stuff. Boys.
Speaker 3: So let's tell the story.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 3: It goes right now as we record this, the day
Speaker 3: before the FDA has come out and they've made an
Speaker 3: announcement that their advisors have declared again side advisors, the
Speaker 3: little board they put together when they want to make
Speaker 3: a big decision, they have decided that the leading active
Speaker 3: ingredient in leading nasal d congestants that are used by
Speaker 3: millions of Americans every day are basically placebos.
Speaker 2: Oh, nice snake oil.
Speaker 3: Huh, snake oil, it's pretty powerful, or sugar pills. But
Speaker 3: but here's the crazy thing, the one that you mentioned,
Speaker 3: ben pennilefern. That is the particular drug, the thing, the
Speaker 3: chemical that is in question here, and it is something
Speaker 3: that has been in question since it became an active
Speaker 3: ingredient in over the counter nasal decongestics. Literally the same
Speaker 3: year that it got pushed as a major ingredient and
Speaker 3: active ingredient in these things, it was questioned by scientists
Speaker 3: across the globe, and since that day in two thousand
Speaker 3: and six, by the way, the FDA has just said, no,
Speaker 3: this is fine. And drug manufacturers, the major ones, all
Speaker 3: the ones you're thinking about right now head when you
Speaker 3: think of a drug manufacturer, they've been putting out drugs,
Speaker 3: over the counter medicines that use this thing as the
Speaker 3: primary nasal decongestin ingredient. This is one of the craziest things.
Speaker 5: I'm annoyed. I'm personally annoyed.
Speaker 3: Well, I think maybe we all are. I think. Let
Speaker 3: me read a bit from this AP article. It's titled
Speaker 3: popular nasal decongestin doesn't actually relieve congestion, FDA advisors say.
Speaker 3: It's written by Matthew Perone for AP News, and it
Speaker 3: is saying, well, let's just read it this way. Advisors
Speaker 3: of the FDA voted unanimously on Tuesday, that's literally yesterday
Speaker 3: as we record this against the effectiveness of the key
Speaker 3: drug found in popular versions of pseudofed dequil and other
Speaker 3: medications stocked on store shelves. And here's a quote. Modern studies,
Speaker 3: when well conducted, are not showing any improvement in congestion
Speaker 3: with phenyl ephrine, right, And that's from an allergy specialist
Speaker 3: from Saint Louis University School of Medicine. Guys, because of
Speaker 3: these findings from the FDA, it is highly likely that
Speaker 3: Jaye and j Johnson and Johnson Bear and pretty much
Speaker 3: everybody else who make drugs are going to have to
Speaker 3: pull these things that we've all been using for almost
Speaker 3: two decades off the shelves.
Speaker 6: It was occurring to me that an alternative could be.
Speaker 6: They would just like, like what the cigarette companies do.
Speaker 6: It's like, this stuff is very bad for you and
Speaker 6: very addictive. Maybe they would just put this doesn't work
Speaker 6: very well, like as a big sticker on the FA.
Speaker 2: The main ingredient is officially vibes. It appears. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know what's next. They're going to get into Nettie pots.
Speaker 3: Hey, that's the thing, because that's one of the alternatives
Speaker 3: that's recommended if you got a stuff he knows, Nettie pot.
Speaker 3: But we also know there's a very low chance that
Speaker 3: you can get some crazy infections in your nasal cavity
Speaker 3: if you use one of those very little, tiny little chants.
Speaker 3: But it's possible.
Speaker 6: Well, this might be another story we should cover at
Speaker 6: some point. But I don't mean to be too confessional.
Speaker 6: But I recently started taking a new, a relatively new
Speaker 6: drug called manjarro that's like for weight loss, and my
Speaker 6: doctor prescribed it to me, but my insurance wouldn't cover it.
Speaker 6: And if the insurance isn't cover it, it's like thirteen
Speaker 6: hundred dollars a month for these injections. So I was
Speaker 6: like that, so I had a friend that told me, well,
Speaker 6: there's there are these like diet dietitians and weight loss
Speaker 6: clinics that can get it for you at half the cost,
Speaker 6: but it's compounded, and I didn't realize that that was
Speaker 6: a different thing. I did notice that the manjarro you
Speaker 6: get prescribed comes in a cool, fancy little thing like
Speaker 6: a pen, you know, and the ones that I got
Speaker 6: came in an envelope full of syringes and like a
Speaker 6: little bottle. And I only just recently started googling it
Speaker 6: compounded Munjarro versus you know, prescription Manjarro, and all this
Speaker 6: stuff came up saying like, Munjarro is intellectual property that
Speaker 6: is owned by Novo Nordisk, and they have not let
Speaker 6: that out to like anybody else. So whatever these dieticians
Speaker 6: are saying they have, it's not exactly the same thing,
Speaker 6: but it probably is close.
Speaker 5: It's called a try trezeptide, is what it's called.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I don't mean to derail, but really quickly
Speaker 6: I was all of a sudden really freaked out. I
Speaker 6: was like, you know, it's not twelve hundred dollars, but
Speaker 6: it's not cheap, and I felt like it was really
Speaker 6: working for me. I was like, my appetite has decreased
Speaker 6: and I've lost about thirteen pounds in the last couple
Speaker 6: of months. But I've also been like exercising and seeing
Speaker 6: a trainer a bunch. So I was like, am I
Speaker 6: full of Am I entirely the victim of placebo? That
Speaker 6: really occurred to me because I'd read all this stuff
Speaker 6: about how this drug is like a miracle drug, and
Speaker 6: I all of a sudden was like, am I just
Speaker 6: totally experiencing the placebo effect?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Man, Noel, that's crazy that you're going through that, because
Speaker 3: it is. I mean, it's shown now that this is
Speaker 3: what everyone's been doing every time you took day quill
Speaker 3: or been niquill, even with Honey. Now we've read ads
Speaker 3: for that product. We have been giving ourselves that placebo effects.
Speaker 3: But it's not entirely true because there are other active
Speaker 3: ingredients in every one of those medicines, right, just not
Speaker 3: a not another primary nasal decongestin, which is one of
Speaker 3: the big issues here. That's really nol. I can't believe
Speaker 3: that I haven't been through anything like that. So you're
Speaker 3: gonna have to report back to this way you find
Speaker 3: really quickly.
Speaker 6: What I did find was that what a lot of
Speaker 6: these compounding pharmacies do.
Speaker 5: Is it's like B twelve.
Speaker 6: It's like a ton of B twelve, or like something
Speaker 6: that makes you feel a thing, but isn't the thing.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Well, in the case of this medicine, you're
Speaker 3: not feeling the fenyl eferne at all. If the only
Speaker 3: way to feel the effects of fenyl eferne, well, actually
Speaker 3: there are a couple of different ways, but the primary one,
Speaker 3: if you want to actually use it as a nasal decongestant,
Speaker 3: is to snort it, to shoot it into your nose instantly, right, yes, exactly,
Speaker 3: I think that's right. Then it is highly effective. It's
Speaker 3: it does exactly what it says as on all of
Speaker 3: those bottles.
Speaker 6: There's times of little snooter like you know, decongested things
Speaker 6: like Vicks, little things that you shoot up your nosey.
Speaker 6: Why don't they release it in that form to make
Speaker 6: it more effective?
Speaker 3: It is, It is released in that form. It's available
Speaker 3: in that form. It's just Americans especially, but many human
Speaker 3: beings across the world like to take their drugs orally
Speaker 3: it's just an easier task, and especially since like little
Speaker 3: kids often will take a little sippy cup basically of
Speaker 3: medicine rather and they like that better than getting stuff
Speaker 3: shut up their shoes. Sure, that's one of the primary
Speaker 3: reasons why it became a take your pill medicine rather
Speaker 3: than shoot it up your nose medicine marketing. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: So the other thing is the reason why this is
Speaker 3: very similar to your story, nol is because phenylephrine as
Speaker 3: an active ingredient in those take a pill or drink
Speaker 3: it down drugs is because of a law that got
Speaker 3: passed in two thousand and six associated with methamphetamine production.
Speaker 3: With the other drug that we mentioned at the top
Speaker 3: of this, pseudo afedrin. Pseudo a fedrin was the active
Speaker 3: ingredient in things like dequill and niquil and pseudo actually sudou. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's because exactly, and those drugs are still available. You
Speaker 3: just have to go to the pharmacist and ask them
Speaker 3: for them. Then you have to in this country at least,
Speaker 3: and also in the UK, I believe, you have to
Speaker 3: sign a log book basically show your ID and you.
Speaker 2: Can only get by a certain amount. Right.
Speaker 6: That came up in the plot of Breaking Bad. They
Speaker 6: call them smurfs, people that go and buy the pseudo
Speaker 6: and like have like a whole team that like divvies
Speaker 6: it up so they can get enough to make a
Speaker 6: batch of crystal meth. Because one person can't get enough
Speaker 6: in one purchase to do that, so they have to
Speaker 6: like have these little smurfs they call them exactly.
Speaker 3: And I would highly recommend everyone read the New Scientist
Speaker 3: article from May twenty sixteen, breaking bad sniffles colon crystal
Speaker 3: meth made cold medicine rubbish. That is a twenty sixteen
Speaker 3: article talking about how the active ingredient in most nasal
Speaker 3: decongestins doesn't work bulls.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's fascinating. I remember, I, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a bit of a square in that sphere of vice.
Speaker 2: I remember I had to I picked up no Dose
Speaker 2: or something like that, which is basically mainly caffeine, right,
Speaker 2: But then there was some other thing. When I was
Speaker 2: on the road a lot more often domestically, there would
Speaker 2: be those that little aisle or that little display by
Speaker 2: the cashier stand of all the pressed pills that were
Speaker 2: like truck er crack and then white crosses, the jackets
Speaker 2: stream games. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I remember one
Speaker 2: time I thought the coffee's just not cutting it. You know,
Speaker 2: I have to be in a different part of the
Speaker 2: continent in a few hours. I can't sleep. And so
Speaker 2: for the first time ever, I was gonna buy some
Speaker 2: of this and the cashier at the time, I think
Speaker 2: it was like a flying j or a pilot or
Speaker 2: a quick trip or something. The cashier said, yeah, buddy,
Speaker 2: hurry up, because uh, they're gonna be a lot harder
Speaker 2: to find in a while. And then he asked me
Speaker 2: if I was sure. I didn't want to buy more
Speaker 2: while I could, and so I just got one pack.
Speaker 2: I decided not to try, and I sat in my
Speaker 2: car and did, like, uh, who am I inventory? I
Speaker 2: was like, I look like I do.
Speaker 5: He was trying to give you some good intel man.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably not the first time he had a conversation.
Speaker 5: That he was trying to move their their units.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: I was in a punk band when I was younger,
Speaker 6: and there we had a song called Mini Things and
Speaker 6: Many Things were a street name for these kind of
Speaker 6: trucker pills, and the lyric was effhagrine. Effhagrine shrinks your
Speaker 6: penis makes it hard to pee, because apparently efhagrine does
Speaker 6: like cause like shrinkings or whatever. But that was the
Speaker 6: first time I heard of efhagrine. And we're talking about now,
Speaker 6: Matt is pseudoefi dream. So does that mean it's like
Speaker 6: a like a different formulation of efidream, Like what is pseudoefidrin?
Speaker 3: Oh, God, pseudoephidrin U. We can get into that. I
Speaker 3: would recommend the article from Science titled the Uselessness of
Speaker 3: Phenylephrine that's from May thirtieth, twenty twenty two. In that
Speaker 3: article you can learn all about how these drugs actually
Speaker 3: interact with the body, with some things that I can't
Speaker 3: really understand. I'll read this a little excerpt. Why is
Speaker 3: oral phenylefrine so useless? It is extensively metabolized starting in
Speaker 3: the gut wall. You can find a bioavailability figure of
Speaker 3: thirty eight percent in the literature, but that appears to
Speaker 3: be the most optimistic number possible, and it goes I mean,
Speaker 3: it's kind of tough to get through in that way,
Speaker 3: but it does go into the one you're talking about
Speaker 3: nol and like why how that drug actually breaks down.
Speaker 5: Breaks through that wall?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 6: It is metabolized correctly, like certain drugs, to your point,
Speaker 6: they break down beyond the point of efficacy by the
Speaker 6: time they actually reach the part of your body that
Speaker 6: needs to be tweaked or whatever.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, exactly, guys. We we're gonna end this in
Speaker 3: just one moment. Here I have to do. You have
Speaker 3: to say one last thing. There is another article everybody
Speaker 3: needs to read right now. It is from the Journal
Speaker 3: of Allergy and Clinical Immunology. It's titled oral fenyle Effering
Speaker 3: and Ineffective replacement for pseudoephedrin, and that is from May first,
Speaker 3: two thousand and six, and it goes exactly the look
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. Well, it goes into the nineteen seventy six
Speaker 3: FDA review panel that concluded oral, I'm gonna read these out.
Speaker 3: This is gonna be tough. But here he goes oral
Speaker 3: fenyl pro penulummin oral propanolamine. That's what it is. Pseudoinether
Speaker 3: and fenylephyrine are safe and effective for non prescription relief
Speaker 3: of nasal congestion caused by the common cold. Okay, that
Speaker 3: happened in nineteen seventy six. Then in two thousand, that
Speaker 3: crazy one that I read a fenyl propylanomane.
Speaker 2: It was every time, man.
Speaker 6: Like a fine wine like a fine wine.
Speaker 3: It was voluntarily removed from all products because of hemorrhagic strokes.
Speaker 3: They were so sweet with.
Speaker 5: Sorry drug, I'm sorry you buried the lead there.
Speaker 6: You're saying the active ingredient they are now touting and
Speaker 6: pushing is the thing that gives you morrhagic strokes. No,
Speaker 6: that is one three.
Speaker 3: That's one of the three that was approved back in
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six. Then pseudoephedrin, the one that's used to
Speaker 3: cook meth, went out of style in two thousand and
Speaker 3: six because of an amendment to the Patriot Act. By
Speaker 3: the way, that's that's why it came out. That's when
Speaker 3: it got put behind the counter. And it is still
Speaker 3: purchased by a lot of US adults, but not as
Speaker 3: many when in proportion now the fenel efrene products are
Speaker 3: purchased way, way, way more.
Speaker 6: But doesn't it just go to show that, like, despite
Speaker 6: FDA approvals, quote unquote, medicine is bulls, Like doesn't it
Speaker 6: kind of like just in general point to that, Like
Speaker 6: we were talking recently on an episode about the whole
Speaker 6: thing with artificial sweeteners.
Speaker 5: How it took the FDA.
Speaker 6: They already knew when the thing came out that it
Speaker 6: wasn't good for you. But now, however, many fifty years later,
Speaker 6: they're like, actually, we finally got done with our book
Speaker 6: report and we think it's actually we're gonna come out
Speaker 6: and say it's not great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, FDA is garbage man, Well, but check this out.
Speaker 3: It's not just the FDA, because there are powerful forces
Speaker 3: at play. Because of that change in the Patriot Act
Speaker 3: of two thousand and six, finel Efrene came out and
Speaker 3: it was Peiser that introduced pseudo fed pe which was
Speaker 3: the original one. Because you can't use that active ingredient
Speaker 3: to make meth. Right, and it was only a marketing
Speaker 3: it was only a ten milligram dose. It was marketing.
Speaker 3: You're right, but it was known at the time. It
Speaker 3: was known then that it had poor bioavailability.
Speaker 2: Also, we got to point out, Matt, I don't want
Speaker 2: to take up too. And seven We've got to point
Speaker 2: out though that this is another example of legislation lagging
Speaker 2: behind technology because because the problem is, if you are
Speaker 2: a legislator, you are playing a very rigged game of
Speaker 2: whack a mole. It is is super easy to make
Speaker 2: a drug that is well, what's the word, uh not
Speaker 2: parasympathetic simply yes, yes, like a cousin of it. That
Speaker 2: is to say, change is one little factor, one little molecule, sympathomemetic,
Speaker 2: so it has the same effect, but it is just
Speaker 2: a kissing cousin of the thing. And so now you
Speaker 2: can say this is not technically the thing that's and
Speaker 2: you know what Pfizer does it as well as your
Speaker 2: local mad chemist from out of the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 6: Well, it's the same with all of those like quote
Speaker 6: unquote lab chemicals like bath salts and like you know
Speaker 6: a THCHC that isn't technically the molecule that is scheduled
Speaker 6: by the government, Like THHC is one particular molecule. Then
Speaker 6: there's something called like Delta eight that's like one molecule different.
Speaker 6: But that means they can sell it at the gas station.
Speaker 6: That means they can sell it at the head shop
Speaker 6: quote unquote. And it takes that they get it gets targeted.
Speaker 6: But that requires debates in the halls of government. You know,
Speaker 6: somebody has to like die and someone has to get
Speaker 6: mad and like write a letter to their congressman or
Speaker 6: like create them all this stuff.
Speaker 5: Like what you're saying, man is actually absolutely right.
Speaker 3: We're talking about sales. I just have to give two figures.
Speaker 3: And this is it. When we're talking about taking these
Speaker 3: drugs off the shelves and not selling them anymore, we're
Speaker 3: talking about a major hit to major drug manufacturing BILLI yeah, billion,
Speaker 3: because in twenty twenty two, according to CBS News and
Speaker 3: the FDA report itself, there were two hundred and forty
Speaker 3: two million bottles, packages, units, or whatever of this cold
Speaker 3: and allergy medication sold.
Speaker 6: And that stuff's like thirty five bucks a pop, like
Speaker 6: each one of those, Like they're very pricey, you know
Speaker 6: that that type of medication over the counter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it depending I don't have I don't know
Speaker 3: if that's just in the US or international league guys,
Speaker 3: but that seems like a large number. The money number
Speaker 3: associated with that is roughly Penelefrene products make up an
Speaker 3: annual sales amount of one point eight billion dollars. So
Speaker 3: that's a huge hit to the bottom line if you
Speaker 3: take those off.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also quick correction, sympathommetic is those are those are
Speaker 2: drugs like pe that that mimic certain effects on the
Speaker 2: sympathetic nervous system. The better general term is just analog drug,
Speaker 2: but the what we're is still accurate ed. It's whenever
Speaker 2: there's a billions of dollars on the line, things get
Speaker 2: ugly so quick because the pharmaceutical lobbies are best in class,
Speaker 2: to be quite honest.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, well, and just to put a cap on it.
Speaker 6: From my end, the thing that I was talking about
Speaker 6: earlier with the Munjarro is what I did look up
Speaker 6: is there's probably some of that in there, but it's
Speaker 6: not FDA tested.
Speaker 5: Or approved, and proceed at your own risk.
Speaker 6: The reason I even found this out was I had
Speaker 6: a physical and I told my doctor, who prescribed me
Speaker 6: the Manjarro, but it was like thirteen hundred dollars. And
Speaker 6: then I found this dietitian. I told him, Oh, I've
Speaker 6: been taking this Manjaro.
Speaker 5: It's great. He's like, wait, you got it for us.
Speaker 5: I'm like, nope, I got it from this dietitian.
Speaker 6: He's like, ooh hmm, not sure about that. These compounding pharmacies,
Speaker 6: you'd really never really know what you're gonna get. I
Speaker 6: thought that was very because again I looked it up FDA.
Speaker 6: But to my previous statement, and then I'm done, FDA
Speaker 6: approval is bullsh who cares well.
Speaker 3: I mean to some extent. That's what we've been finding
Speaker 3: out right. No, to everyone listening, you are not going
Speaker 3: to get sick. You're not going to get your kids
Speaker 3: sick from using these drugs. They are just not going
Speaker 3: to be effective at doing the thing they say they
Speaker 3: do on the box. That's it.
Speaker 4: We'll be back with more strange news, and we have returned.
Speaker 2: Folks. If you are a longtime conspiracy realist, there is
Speaker 2: little doubt that you have heard a bit about UAPs, UFOs, aliens, extraterrestrials,
Speaker 2: non human intelligence, especially in the past few months or
Speaker 2: the past few years. Our last story today bit of
Speaker 2: a combo meal. We've got a palate cleanser for you
Speaker 2: at the end. I hope it's a pallet cleanser. Comes
Speaker 2: to us from North America, which is absolutely blowing up
Speaker 2: with alleged UAP news. Quite recently, the Congress of Mexico
Speaker 2: had an amazing experience. I think it's an amazing experience.
Speaker 2: We'll see. I wasn't there in person. Lawmakers of Mexico
Speaker 2: got together and convened a session wherein they were shown
Speaker 2: allegedly alien corpses retrieved from Peru that's our first clue.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, that's our first clue. The guys running the
Speaker 2: running point on this is a journalist and ufologist named
Speaker 2: Jamie Mawson m aussa n and took an oath and said,
Speaker 2: you know, these mummified specimens are not part of quote
Speaker 2: our terrestrial evolution now that a third of their DNA
Speaker 2: is unknown.
Speaker 6: Doesn't it feel like these kinds of stories are starting
Speaker 6: to get printed in more and more prestigious publications Like sure,
Speaker 6: it used to be that this kind of story would
Speaker 6: be in like the Daily Mail or like the Sun
Speaker 6: or whatever, the National Inquirer. But now we've got like
Speaker 6: experts saying, Yep, there was definitely a mummified corpse an
Speaker 6: alien autopsy situation that I've never seen before.
Speaker 5: That's wild.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because Peru does subconsciously make most people think
Speaker 2: of mummies when you say there's an ancient corpse found there.
Speaker 2: That's that's part of the debate. That's a good point too,
Speaker 2: because one of the biggest Western sources reporting this is
Speaker 2: The Independent. So shout out to Tara Cobham, who wrote
Speaker 2: a great story here that you can read. Now alien
Speaker 2: corpse has shown to Congress as UFO expert is forced
Speaker 2: to testify under oath. I think it's a little bit
Speaker 2: of editorialization to say forced to testify because a guy
Speaker 2: totally volunteered. But you can look at pictures of these
Speaker 2: things on the independent there. I want to shout out
Speaker 2: everybody reached out on Instagram and various social meds to
Speaker 2: point this story out the pictures themselves, and be honest
Speaker 2: with you, not super duper impressive. The skeptics are already
Speaker 2: having a field day, as are of course, the true believers.
Speaker 2: But what did they talk about? So it's you can
Speaker 2: watch the entirety of the hearing. It is in Spanish,
Speaker 2: but you can also find some pretty good English transcriptions
Speaker 2: if you're not if you're not feeling super duper confident
Speaker 2: in you're Spanish. And we know that they did radiocarbon
Speaker 2: dating per what they say. We know that they did
Speaker 2: DNA testing. We know that they took X rays, and
Speaker 2: the X rays are interesting because it appears that one
Speaker 2: of these two corpses has what are being described as
Speaker 2: eggs inside inside wear metal metal eggs in their bodies,
Speaker 2: god made of stuff like osmium.
Speaker 6: Dude, Okay, I mean the first image in the Independent
Speaker 6: piece looks like Yoda. I just want to say that
Speaker 6: right now, and like fully looks like Yoda. He's got
Speaker 6: like a law or et. He's got like an elongated
Speaker 6: head that is like a hammer. It's interesting immediately if
Speaker 6: this is real, looks unlike any mummy I've ever seen.
Speaker 6: It's not shrunken in the same way that a human
Speaker 6: specimen would be shrunken in the way mummification occurs.
Speaker 3: I I'm sorry, I'm flabbergasted here. Okay, So I'm looking
Speaker 3: at the images Ben from the Independent that we're talking about.
Speaker 3: I'm looking at a thing specifically. Gosh, this thing it's everything,
Speaker 3: is what you're talking about. No, it's the shoulders. For me,
Speaker 3: I don't understand where they're classical particulation.
Speaker 2: It looks like your kid made one.
Speaker 6: I was about to say, it looks like a mud sculpture,
Speaker 6: like a like a paper machet, like dummy.
Speaker 5: It's weird.
Speaker 3: But again, like I don't want to completely discount it
Speaker 3: because there it's striking. It's just I don't know, man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he uh. This guy claims Jamie claims they were
Speaker 2: These two corpses were found in gru in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: And he also there's something interesting in some of these statements.
Speaker 2: The folks who are saying that this is unusual and
Speaker 2: not just a typical Peruvian mummified human corpse. They're saying, look,
Speaker 2: we want to publish the science. We want to get
Speaker 2: this out come disprove us. Look, this is how science works.
Speaker 2: Look into what we're doing right now. We think these
Speaker 2: are anywhere between seven hundred to eighteen hundred years old.
Speaker 2: And they have weirdly elongated heads. They only got three
Speaker 2: fingers on each hand. That's what they're trying to demonstrate.
Speaker 2: And it does come upon the hills of the UAP
Speaker 2: statement to US Congress with you know, of course Grush, Travlor,
Speaker 2: Ryan Graves and so on. And it's nuts to see
Speaker 2: how this. So I started digging into the story a little.
Speaker 2: And the first thing you want to do on these things,
Speaker 2: you want to read the official statements. You want to
Speaker 2: learn about the source of the statement. Right, who is
Speaker 2: saying this and do they have any sort of motivation?
Speaker 2: Do they have a book coming out? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Do they own a for profit entity that
Speaker 2: publicizes putting osmium eggs in your body or something like
Speaker 2: that in and again I don't want to cast dispersion here,
Speaker 2: but it is proven that this is not our guy's
Speaker 2: first rodeo. He has previously been associated with claims of
Speaker 2: extraterrestrial or non human intelligence discoveries that had later been debunked,
Speaker 2: including five mummies also found in Peru in twenty seventeen
Speaker 2: that were later shown to be human children.
Speaker 5: See, there we go.
Speaker 6: And I did just look up The Independent on a
Speaker 6: site that scores reliability and the Independent gets forty point
Speaker 6: three to two on the reliability scale negative seven point
Speaker 6: five to four, by which I don't quite understand the
Speaker 6: scale of this, but I do think The Independent is
Speaker 6: sort of a old school British sort of tabloid kind
Speaker 6: of thing to a degree.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I call it a tablet.
Speaker 5: No, I've always signed exactly.
Speaker 6: But even the Mirror of the Sun by some journalist
Speaker 6: type folks are considered to be not as you know,
Speaker 6: Oh that's.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying. Yeah, those are trash. The Independents more
Speaker 2: like the Telegraph.
Speaker 5: And there you go.
Speaker 6: So my point is like, this is the kind of
Speaker 6: story that you used to see on papers in the
Speaker 6: grocery store. Bat Boy things like that. Now we have
Speaker 6: too much information. We can't be fooled by that stuff anymore.
Speaker 6: We have to be fed more data to be like
Speaker 6: maybe maybe this is an alien mummy, but this is
Speaker 6: the type of paper that would print a bogus story.
Speaker 6: That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. Uh there, And of course
Speaker 2: uh this one journalist who has been associated with previously
Speaker 2: debunked claims he's not the only person who spoke with
Speaker 2: Congress there in Mexico. I want to shout out Jose Dijesuslt. Benitez,
Speaker 2: who is a forensic sciences specialist, and he's got his
Speaker 2: bona fides. You can read his full statement in Spanish
Speaker 2: and English. And he talks in detail, kind of similar
Speaker 2: to some previous reports we saw to US Congress. He
Speaker 2: talks in detail about different things. One thing to your
Speaker 2: earlier question, Matt, one thing you spend some time on
Speaker 2: is articulation points. You know, you look at it and
Speaker 2: you're like, Wow, this is a crappy g I Joe,
Speaker 2: it's elbows.
Speaker 5: Don't bend, yeah, doesn't you know? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And so he talks through, he talks through the anatomy
Speaker 2: of these corpses. He talks through unusual developments, like how
Speaker 2: it has in the thorax. There's a structure similar to
Speaker 2: that of birds, and he says, the thorax structure that
Speaker 2: is kind of like a bird. It kind of avian
Speaker 2: allows those shoulder joints to continue and move very well,
Speaker 2: so at the very least, if it's a cod. He
Speaker 2: he was up at night saying, I know that Matt
Speaker 2: Frederick's gonna ask about the shoulders, so let me get
Speaker 2: my work in.
Speaker 3: Now, got stick and move on this guy.
Speaker 5: Can we talk about the hips though?
Speaker 6: The hips are aggressive, I mean they are jutting.
Speaker 5: They are They're like a shelf, and then the and
Speaker 5: the butt.
Speaker 6: It's clearly laying flat on a flat surface and there's
Speaker 6: no nothing poking out.
Speaker 5: The back of the hips are protruding like three four inches.
Speaker 3: It's crazy because the hips look like bones to me, right,
Speaker 3: the weavers are, but then the arms. I think that's
Speaker 3: what's making maybe tripping up my mind.
Speaker 5: It looks phony, man, it looks phony.
Speaker 3: Well because the shoulders don't look bony to me. It
Speaker 3: looks like musculature or something that would make it look
Speaker 3: more smooth. Sorry, which is weird.
Speaker 2: It is a very strange thing too. And you know,
Speaker 2: I would say, in all fairness, if you have looked
Speaker 2: at mummified remains in the past for animals as well
Speaker 2: as humans, they could look at hokey a little bit
Speaker 2: hokey as well. You know, I hate to look at
Speaker 2: these remnants of ancient, amazing civilizations and think their production
Speaker 2: value wasn't where I wanted it to be.
Speaker 6: Is this a fossil that we're looking at like or like,
Speaker 6: what are we Is this like a fossilized skeleton that
Speaker 6: is you know, we're looking at the shape that was
Speaker 6: made by rock intrusions into where it left the hole
Speaker 6: in the fossilt, just making sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a so whatever it is, it definitely
Speaker 2: at least appears to hold up the scans. The big
Speaker 2: extraordinary claim is that it's not human, and that needs
Speaker 2: to be verified by multiple people. But also you have
Speaker 2: part of that verification is looking at the track record
Speaker 2: of the person who is making these claims. And this
Speaker 2: person apparently has attempted to or has made similar claims
Speaker 2: in the past. That doesn't mean what they're saying now
Speaker 2: is not true. That just means we've got to think
Speaker 2: about it. We've got to think through what their motivations
Speaker 2: could be. And you can, of course you can find
Speaker 2: again the transcripts here, which seem to be made in
Speaker 2: good faith. You can watch the entire hearing and espanel
Speaker 2: on any number of video platforms. Of course, Twitter loves
Speaker 2: this or x loves this, and I gotta say it's
Speaker 2: been really interesting to get into the weeds and read
Speaker 2: the back and forth of what they're saying, because if
Speaker 2: you listen to the folks who are saying this is extraordinary,
Speaker 2: they've got specialist and metallurgy radiologists, geneticis.
Speaker 6: The interior eggs. That's fascinating. That's a real eyebrow raiser
Speaker 6: for me. The idea of metal eggs is interesting.
Speaker 3: Ben, did you give a length or like a height
Speaker 3: or just a size?
Speaker 2: No, not yet, not yet. That's good.
Speaker 6: Let's it's in a drawer. It looks like in the image,
Speaker 6: it's like in a drawer. It's like a velvety kind
Speaker 6: of you know, sunken thing like you would present a
Speaker 6: king's crown. You know, it's very unusual.
Speaker 2: They're a little oshkosh bagosh caskets basically because there it is. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna be. They're not gonna be point guards
Speaker 2: in the NBA. You know what I mean that that
Speaker 2: part is true? Uh, they are. The thing that's strange
Speaker 2: is they fit a lot of the popular description of
Speaker 2: little green men, you know, create heads, somewhat vestigial noses,
Speaker 2: a lower number of flangies or whatever, and much smaller
Speaker 2: heights or toes as well. I guess this is yeah,
Speaker 2: this like we I was talking with some Mexican contacts
Speaker 2: who are also UFO fans about this, and even the
Speaker 2: guys that I thought would be super on board, like
Speaker 2: super yes, tell us more, even they were saying, yeah.
Speaker 2: Even they were saying, I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: because they all knew about this guy previously. I did not.
Speaker 5: I didn't either.
Speaker 6: But isn't it funny that like the mainstream relatively quote
Speaker 6: unquote mainstream press is picking up this story that was
Speaker 6: you know, how.
Speaker 5: Did this come up? Again?
Speaker 6: It was presented before Mexican lawmakers kind of like how
Speaker 6: was there an official panel about this? Like it was
Speaker 6: kind of official. That's why they picked it up over here,
Speaker 6: I think right.
Speaker 3: It was a congressional hearing understanding Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 6: So that's enough to make a quote unquote reputable American
Speaker 6: journalist agency be like, we're going to report on this.
Speaker 6: We also know it's gonna get us click because you know,
Speaker 6: disclosure it's happening, like like, come on, we're going to
Speaker 6: get clicks.
Speaker 3: Ben, Who else was that that? Hearing Lindsey?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there were there were some greatest hits. I
Speaker 2: think Graves was there, right.
Speaker 3: Uh, Look, we mentioned recently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do the big reveal man, Mister.
Speaker 3: Lob we just talked about.
Speaker 6: I don't know who that is.
Speaker 2: Abby Lobe is a storied Harvard astrophysicist that I had
Speaker 2: mentioned in previous Strange News last week who discovered some
Speaker 2: fascinating ferials we're calling them off the coast of New Guinea.
Speaker 2: And if you would if you had asked me, if
Speaker 2: you had been like, hey, Ben, I'm the editor of
Speaker 2: the Independent. I need to do a show to get
Speaker 2: I need to do an article to get some clicks.
Speaker 2: And if you asked me off record, I would say, UFOs.
Speaker 2: That's what the point I'm making to the you know,
Speaker 2: to the question you asked, there has to be some
Speaker 2: skepticism there and that that means that, once again, I
Speaker 2: don't know about you guys, I'm putting on my foxmoulder
Speaker 2: hat I want to believe so badly though you know no,
Speaker 2: But indeed so they do have, but they do have
Speaker 2: appeal to us. I think in modern folklore there's this
Speaker 2: this concept that there are inexplicable things about the world,
Speaker 2: or there is some mystery to decode, and the question
Speaker 2: always becomes one of good versus bad faith actors. Do
Speaker 2: these folks really believe what they're saying or is it
Speaker 2: a cynical grift in order to make some sort of profit,
Speaker 2: And that can be a difficult question to answer when
Speaker 2: you are living in history as it's being written. Before
Speaker 2: we move on, to be absolutely clear, I am personally
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent sure these purported alien bodies
Speaker 2: are absolutely a hoax. In fact, I would advance to
Speaker 2: you the idea that they are a modern version of P. T.
Speaker 2: Barnum's famous Fiji mermaid. These are absolutely debunked, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: they are part of a scam. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: if you look at several articles around this, including the
Speaker 2: Vox article by Aja Romano, you will find that there
Speaker 2: is in fact a crowdfunding project over on ulula dot
Speaker 2: com which is entirely about constructing these things. So our
Speaker 2: big question, our big conspiracy now is why did the
Speaker 2: Mexican Congress agree to play these reindeer games in the
Speaker 2: first place. Curiouser and curiouser, so would love to hear
Speaker 2: your thoughts on that. Folks, tell you how to get
Speaker 2: in touch with us at the end as a palate
Speaker 2: cleanser here or a very worrying thing. Your mileage may vary.
Speaker 2: I want to give a special shout out to Joseph
Speaker 2: s on Instagram hipped us to this story. Speaking of tabloids,
Speaker 2: this is from the Mirror in the UK. The first
Speaker 2: red heifer in two thousand years fulfills the biblical prophecies
Speaker 2: and signals the quote end of days.
Speaker 5: Okay, what tell no more?
Speaker 2: Murder not with a bang, but with some cattle. Apparently,
Speaker 2: in Christianity and Judaism, red heifers show up in stories
Speaker 2: about the end times, and the birth and sacrifice of
Speaker 2: a red cow is said to proceed the construction of
Speaker 2: the Third Temple in Jerusalem, and then in Orthodox Judaism,
Speaker 2: rebuilding that temple happens before the Jewish Messiah arrives.
Speaker 6: Isn't that fascinating that the cow is a big deal
Speaker 6: in Hinduism, the sacred cow. It's a big deal in
Speaker 6: the golden calf, the idol that you worship and all
Speaker 6: of that stuff. It's a very like it comes up
Speaker 6: a lot in all of these various religious iconographies.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 3: Okay, now this is a weird one for me. This
Speaker 3: is really weird one for me. And I was a
Speaker 3: Bible boy for a long time, but this I don't.
Speaker 3: I didn't know a lot about this. The red heifer
Speaker 3: of that concept looks to me and I may be
Speaker 3: completely wrong to be associated with almost a virginal human.
Speaker 3: Its a bovine, a female bovine which has never been
Speaker 3: pregnant or milked or yoked.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think the specific line is something like, to
Speaker 2: your point, Matt, speak unto the children of Israel, the
Speaker 2: Lord commanded that they bring the red heifer without spot,
Speaker 2: wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came a yoke.
Speaker 6: Isn't that asking for a sacrifice?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 3: Sort of it is. It was for sacrificial purposes. That's
Speaker 3: the virginals.
Speaker 6: Sacrifices are like a thing, you know.
Speaker 5: It's very interesting.
Speaker 3: Maybe I just don't understand the significance of this one
Speaker 3: perfectly spotless whatever, whatever the criterias.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's so many little mentions, and I think
Speaker 6: it's actually sort of been debunked that like six sixty
Speaker 6: six is mentioned in revelations. I think that's not true, right,
Speaker 6: and like there right, the number of the beasts. But
Speaker 6: there are things in the Bible that portent an end
Speaker 6: of times thing, and anybody that wants to interpret it
Speaker 6: and spit it out to their followers can flip it
Speaker 6: and do whatever they want with it.
Speaker 2: And the director of the Temple Institute, Rabbi Chai Richmond,
Speaker 2: spoke about this and said, we have we and several
Speaker 2: other rabbinical experts have examined this cow, and it is
Speaker 2: indeed a viable candidate for the biblical red heifer. I
Speaker 2: had no idea that they were so candidingly rare. And
Speaker 2: as someone you know who has a color blindness or
Speaker 2: color deficiency, if there were people like me on the far,
Speaker 2: we would have never known in the world with just.
Speaker 6: Event, but that they have criteria ready like for the thing, like, oh,
Speaker 6: here it is, let's check the boxes.
Speaker 5: You know, that's wild to me.
Speaker 3: Red is also a translated color. Remember this is man.
Speaker 3: Red doesn't mean red necessarily, it could mean yellow, eric
Speaker 3: could be yellowish, like check it out. There's there are
Speaker 3: translation differences that have been associated with this thing and
Speaker 3: what it actually means or would look like.
Speaker 6: Well, to the point then of someone with colorblindness, color.
Speaker 5: Is all relative.
Speaker 6: It's all about like what you ascribe that color to be,
Speaker 6: and then you know the word you choose to use
Speaker 6: to like describe it to other people. That is usually
Speaker 6: pretty irrelevant.
Speaker 2: Well, it seems, of course in this case, to both
Speaker 2: your points, this seems extremely relevant to some people. Again,
Speaker 2: not not everyone of these faiths is agreeing with this
Speaker 2: to I think one of the big takeaways here is
Speaker 2: that apparently that's a very rare type of cow and
Speaker 2: will it lead to huge revelations to apocalyptic times? Well,
Speaker 2: you can make the argument that we live in those
Speaker 2: and already have. So we would love to hear your
Speaker 2: take on this, folks. Biblical prophecy is just so unundingly fascinating.
Speaker 3: Give it to us, Matt, We've got to talk about one.
Speaker 3: This episode is coming out on September eighteenth, twenty twenty three. Okay,
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, you guys, we made an episode titled
Speaker 3: will the or will the world end tomorrow or today
Speaker 3: or something like that. Do you remember this, Yeah, it
Speaker 3: was September twenty third, twenty seventeen. There are a ton
Speaker 3: of rumors circulating right now that the world is going
Speaker 3: to end this year. I guess on Saturday, as you're
Speaker 3: hearing this episode on September two, twenty third, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: So everybody get ready. I guess for either nothing or
Speaker 3: the end of the world.
Speaker 2: I guess, And we'll be here until the lights go out.
Speaker 2: Your mileage may vary. The world is ending for someone
Speaker 2: somewhere every day, hopefully not you. We can't wait to
Speaker 2: hear your thoughts on this. Let us know what you think.
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