WEBVTT - What’s Next for Stop Cop City 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:07.880 Cool Media. 0:00:08.480 --> 0:00:11.240 Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.319 is the show where we talk about how everything kind 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.240 of feels like it's falling apart and how we can 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:19.720 perhaps sometimes put some of that back together. In about 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.439 a month's time, there's going to be what's being labeled 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:27.360 a quote unquote mass nonviolent direct action converging on the 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.520 Cop City construction site in Atlanta, Georgia. Now, a few 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:34.560 weeks ago I interviewed the two people going around the 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:39.160 country giving the block Cop City Speaking Tour in preparation 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.479 for this upcoming action next month in Atlanta. Like always, 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.280 the opinions of those interviewed on the show don't necessarily 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.519 reflect the views of the show or myself. And with 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.919 this action in particular, there has been quite the variety 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.880 of opinions regarding its risk level and its ideological and 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.279 tactical validity. But the action is going to happen. It 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:03.760 is going to take place on November thirteenth, no matter 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.319 you know some people disagreeing with aspects of it or 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:09.800 having concerns about aspects of it, it is it is 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.880 going to take place. So my interest in putting out 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:15.480 this episode is to have a very open and clear 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.440 discussion regarding some of the questions people have about this 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:23.040 quote unquote nonviolent action, and also provide enough informations that 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.800 people can make their own informed decision regarding what's going 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.600 to happen next November. So with that, here is my 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.240 conversation with Sam and Jamie from the Block Coop City 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:38.479 speaking tour. Joining me today is Sam from Block Cop 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.600 City and Jamie Peck. Both of you have been going 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.039 around the country I think it's around seventy cities right now, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.760 doing a speaking tour to talk about this upcoming action 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.960 in November to block cop City. Thanks for coming on, guys, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.560 No problem, Yeah, thanks for having us. So I assume 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.520 anyone who's listening to this is already familiar with cop City, 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.559 whether through their own their own keeping up with the news, 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:07.840 or even if they're just even if they just listen 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.639 to the show. We have covered cop City quite extensively 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:16.720 the past like two years. So let's talk about this 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.200 this kind of upcoming action, because it's very different than 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.280 kind of the previous mobilizations that we've seen, which have 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.320 taken form as like weeks of action. We had one 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.640 last last June. We had one the previous march. So 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:36.119 what's different about this new upcoming three day kind of mobilization. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:41.280 So yeah, obviously it's taking place on one day instead 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.520 of a whole week, and there's gonna be two days 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.160 of nonviolent direct action training leading up to the day 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.920 of which would be really important to make sure that 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.280 everybody feels prepared for what we're about to do. It's 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.919 different in a few different ways. I feel like this 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.920 is a passover Mansuri the four questions. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:03.920 How has this action different from all other actions? 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:09.840 Well, it's gonna be like a real centralization of efforts, 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:12.000 right because other weeks of action have been a little 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.000 more diffuse, a little more spread out, And here we're 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.040 sort of bringing to bear the full power of all 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.720 the people coming from all over the country, this in 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.520 the same place at the same time, because there's safety 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.000 in numbers and there's power in numbers. And I feel 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.840 like the June Week of Action, people were kind of 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.480 going all over the place, not. 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:31.800 Really sure what to do when. 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:34.560 And I talked to a lot of people who were like, 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:36.920 just tell us what to do, tell us what the 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.800 move is on this particular day, and we'll be there 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.200 And there is no one to do that, which you 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:46.320 know is sometimes a hazard of sort of anarchistic movements. 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.200 Right, nobody's in charge. 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.280 And we're not in charge right now either, I should 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.320 say everybody is going to have a chance to have 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.600 input on the final plan in a thing called spokes 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.640 councils that we're doing the weekend before the action. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.240 But yeah, I think we're. 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.040 Picking a lane, and we're doing a thing, and this 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:08.839 particular lane has been chosen for a number of different reasons. Right. 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.160 The movement is in an interesting place. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.240 Right now, where more people than ever know about cop City, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.400 more people than ever are opposed to cop City, as 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.480 evidenced by the one hundred and twenty thousand petition signatures 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.480 that the referendum campaign was able to collect to actually 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.119 get a referendum on the ballot to let the people 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.760 of Atlanta actually vote on whether or not they want 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.200 this thing built. Of course, the city is throwing every 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:34.760 trick in the book at them because they do not 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:39.599 want to let the people vote. But on the other hand, right, 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.080 lots of people know about it, lots of people oppose it, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.159 But the number of people who are willing and able 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.720 to show up and do direct action against it has dwindled, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.520 and that's for a few different reasons. Right, there's been 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.160 so much repression of the movement. One hundred people at 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.440 least are now facing charges. We've got people facing domestic 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.920 terrorism charges, We've got people facing RICO charges, just like 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.120 an absurd overreach of the state, even according to mainstream 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.240 legal scholars. So we really need a way for people 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.920 to feel empowered doing direct action again. And this is 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.080 what we've settled upon as a solution, and maybe Sam 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:17.960 can take it from there. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.440 Sure, thanks, yeah, to build upon that, I suppose. Right, 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.360 you were sort of asking why is it that less 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.200 people than ever are taking embodied action in the forest, 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:30.440 And one of those reasons also is people have been 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.679 directing attention to other initiatives. Right, So the one hundred 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.359 and twenty thousand petition signatures is gathered by something like 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:42.920 three thousand volunteers. There's all sorts of different parties throughout 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.960 the movement who have been trying, you know, just another 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.920 diverse tactic. Right, This movement has seen incredibly diverse tactics 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.800 over the last two years, all sort of moving in 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:55.640 unison with one another. And we sort of see block 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:00.760 Cop City as just another type of tactic in a 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:05.599 larger repertoire of a toolkit. You know, we haven't actually 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.080 had an instance of over a thousand people doing embodied 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.680 direct action in the forest, like that's never occurred in 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.200 this campaign. We've had a lot of people during some 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.040 weeks of Action, but this is a little bit different 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:19.359 in the scope. It's a little bit different in flavor. 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.039 I liked what you were saying, Jamie about the sort 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.400 of like a lot of other sort of convergences in 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.919 Atlanta that were called weeks of action where we're distributed, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.800 we're very autonomously organized, and we're sort of treading a 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.279 line between like the main sort of organizing style. You know, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.520 we're on tour right now, right calling in from Vancouver 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.000 and you're over in Maine, vast continental wide tour. One 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.120 of the primary functions of this tour is like the 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.360 activation of affinity groups to sort of catalyze and come 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.280 down to Atlanta so that crews can sort of have 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:56.720 the confidence of flexibility, the warmth and the revelry that 0:06:56.760 --> 0:07:00.320 comes with moving through space with your homies, with your commons, 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.560 while at the same time there's a very large cohort 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.200 of various logistical teams trying to figure out various programming events, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.840 the locations of these trainings, how to feed people, how 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:16.120 to house people, how to keep people entertained, things like that. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:21.920 So it's I think the scope is larger, potentially hitting 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.400 eighty cities if we can finalize a few final requests 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.600 and the sort of the action itself, right, so, as 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.440 Jamie was saying, is sort of confined to one day, right, 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.080 but it's a four day convergence. So the action itself 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.840 is being our goal is to sort of carve out 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:42.800 of space that day of on the morning of Monday, 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.239 November thirteenth, which thousands of people can take embodied action 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:48.360 together in the forest. 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.520 Again, when you say like embodied action, this thing has 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:57.320 been advertised as using quote unquote strategic nonviolence as opposed 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:59.920 to like moralistic non violence, like where you like oppose 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.120 violent direct action on principle. Instead, this has been trying 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.520 to employ nonviolence as a strategic action. Do you want 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.240 to talk a little bit about kind of how that's 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.480 being envisioned, because I know there's certainly, even in Atlanta, 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.920 there's a lot of people who are either skeptical or 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.480 confused or fear that there's like other safety issues with 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:23.160 within action as public as this, right, because you're trying 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.280 to get thousands of people to show up, So this 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.440 is this very publicly announced thing, which also gives the 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.720 police a big heads up. So I know there's been 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:31.520 a lot of you know, there's there's a lot of questions, 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.000 and I feel like, you know, the this this aspect 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.000 of non violence is a very interesting one because the 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.440 Defend the Atlanta Forest movement has been I think very 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:46.400 historically defined by you know, very spontaneous, fiery acts of sabotage. 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.600 So I guess, yeah, just that's I want to kind 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.520 of I'm interested in this kind of strategic non violence aspect. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.400 Well, I don't know that it's been defined by these 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.480 strategic acts of sabotage, which, by the way, I don't 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.800 consider violence against private property to do violence. 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.920 I tend to apply that to human beings only. 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:11.280 But yeah, we certainly we don't disavow violence. We don't 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.959 about any tactics in this fight. I mean that that 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.360 highest level of violence that any activists have even been 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.680 accused of is probably about the same level that you'd 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.360 find if you've ever had a Roman candle fight with 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.160 your friends. Right, you're shooting fireworks in each other's general direction. 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.720 Obviously that wasn't happening for fun when folks did it 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:37.200 in the activism world. But yeah, why non violence? 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:37.640 Why? 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:37.880 Now? 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.880 It's a great question, and I think a lot of 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.679 it has to do with responding to the charges on 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.760 the table. A lot of it has to do with 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.800 wanting to create an easier on ramp for people and 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.800 something that can be openly promoted because, you know, for 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.920 better or for worse, the media has at times portrayed 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.559 certain corners of the movement as these like scary eco 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.839 terrorist and you know, when people are doing a higher 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.480 risk action, it's inherently something that you can't really go 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.640 around the country talking about and engaging groups of people 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.400 that you don't know. So, you know, we wanted to 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.800 strike this balance, right and what are we doing? Well, yes, 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.679 technically it's a crime. So was what Martin Luther King 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.320 did in the nineteen sixties, And we wanted to draw 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.240 on that legacy, right, because the civil rights movement has 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.720 a deep, deep legacy in Atlanta itself. So like we've 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.840 had rallies at the MLK Center and now so okay, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.440 we're doing a thing. Right, there's a thousand people. There, 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.800 there's children, there's clergy, it's in broad daylight. The state 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.280 is sort of caught in a buyant now because Okay, 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.240 it could arrest one thousand people in broad daylight and 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:53.760 charge them with domestic terrorism. That would create a political crisis, 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:56.079 and that would be an international outrage, and I think 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.559 it would also be fairly unprecedented. It's possible that that 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.120 would have although I don't think that's what's going to happen. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:06.600 There was recently a similar kind of direct action on 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.760 the construction site that the Faith Coalition against Cop City did. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:14.120 Actually five people chain themselves to the construction equipment and 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.640 they were arrested. They're all out on misdemeanors now, which 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.760 is what you usually get charged with for a protest 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:25.599 of that nature. Right, So, yeah, the state could hypothetically 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.800 arrest a thousand people and charge them with terrorism. That 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.000 would be an international outrage, that would be a political crisis. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.840 On the other hand, the state could do and there 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.040 are signs that has been pulling back, right because what 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.840 I just said, if the state charges people with misdemeanors 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.319 for doing the exact same thing that people were recently 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.240 charged with terrorism or hit with RICO charges for doing 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.760 that will also serve to further delegitimize these charges for 0:11:52.840 --> 0:12:05.880 the people already facing them. 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.080 Mass arrests are certainly a pretty big concern for people 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.000 when they're deciding if they want to go to such 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.160 an action. And I mean, because this action is happening, 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.679 and you know, one of the most I would say, 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.480 it's probably in like the top five most police areas 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.840 of the country right now is in the South River Forest, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.959 is specifically the cop City construction site. It's certainly a 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.240 concern a lot people have, especially when you know, we're 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.839 talking about possibly police arresting hundreds of people trying to 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.560 kettle them in the site. It's it's certainly a very 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:37.760 very valid concern to have. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:40.920 I'll also add a little bit to that. So for me, 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:46.160 the question of like mass arrest is actually maybe not 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.120 even in the top five reasons why I'm interested in 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.640 doing this campaign. I think it obviously is a possibility, right, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.520 I would say the goal of this action for me 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.600 at least is not to get arrested. Yeah, obviously, Like 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.920 you know, many civil disobedience campaigns, like that's an explicit 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.480 part of their understanding. Yea, like a lot of change. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:10.600 Right, Yeah, A lot of like the extinction rebellion kind 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.120 of tactics, even some of them more kind of Earth 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.000 first tactics kind of revolve around being arrested as a 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.319 part of of of the tactic itself. And there's certainly 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.320 been a lot of pushback towards that type of like 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.840 self sacrificial tactic here in Atlanta the past few years, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:29.240 and kind of in the general kind of anarchistic mill 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.080 you that's kind of been like stewing that you know, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.040 is is this kind of self sacrifice of being arrested 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.440 actually useful in any way? And I'm sure that is 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.520 part of part of some people's thought process going into 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.200 this is is you know, if there's a decent chance 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.400 I am going to get arrested just for walking onto 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.600 a site, is is it worth it? But sorry you 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.080 were I realized I was interrupted you and went on 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:55.800 a short, short rant. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.160 No, that's okay, it's a it's a it's a very 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:04.000 important issue a lot of us, right, So yeah, like 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.920 sort of as I was saying like that, the goal 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.360 of this act is action is not to get arrested. 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.440 But obviously, as you were saying, like we're waltzing onto 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.439 the fucking sorry cops city construction site. It's a very 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:20.720 good chance, to say the least. And but for me, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.160 the other interesting parts about this is right is embodied 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.960 action in the forest has just not felt possible for 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.840 months and months and months. There hasn't been an occupation 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.280 of the forest since the cops killed tort in January 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.880 of this year, except for a couple of days during 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.920 the March Week of Action, But largely speaking, in the 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.440 forests has been held by big scary men with big 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.400 scary guns for many months now, and the horizons feel 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:51.040 incredibly obscured. You know. It's it's it's very unclear what 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.280 the movement could do right now, that could that could 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.160 jump start our energies, that could serve as a container 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.320 for the thousands and thousands and thousands of disillusion and 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.880 disenfranchised folks who have been working tirelessly at other methods 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.640 of change as well. Right so, our sort of theory 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.440 is the most powerful action that we can do is 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:15.240 one that's sort of defined by our by our power 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.760 in numbers, by our power in our unity, by our 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.600 power in sticking together in order. So for me, The 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.640 interesting question isn't even necessarily what happens on November thirteenth 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:27.600 of this year, the day of the action. For me, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.120 the interesting question is like, what new horizons does this 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.720 open up in the movement? How we can reactivate and 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.000 recatalyze our energy and understand and prove to ourselves in 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.840 a collective fashion that embodied action in the forest is 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.600 indeed possible at a math level, and this actually sort 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.840 of seeks to advance the energy and the movement to 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.800 a new height that hasn't actually occurred. What's going to 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.440 happen is more people than ever will be in the 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.960 forest together at the same time, and that right now 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.280 is precisely what's needed in this moment, and the only 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.760 way to do that as we're doing this publicly and 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.560 above ground one to help aid in that sort of 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.320 facilitation of just a numbers game, right, and then two 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.000 is like, we want people to be able to make 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.480 an informed and consensual decision on how they want to engage, 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.160 and the only way that they can do that is 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.240 for them to actually know what the heck is going 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.320 to happen. Right, So we're going around and being incredibly 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.960 clear about what the plan is and how the finalized 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.880 version of the plan will be, as Jamie sort of 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:31.160 opened with, discussed democratically and horizontally at these in person 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.000 outdoor COVID Safe Spokes Council meetings on Saturday, November eleventh 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.880 and Sunday, November twelfth down there in Atlanta, where all 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.680 these affinity groups from around the country, around the state, 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.640 and around the city of Atlanta will sort of elect 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.400 one of their home needs to go to this larger 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:49.320 general assembly type thing that will then sort of democratically 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.880 and horizontally determine what the actual specifics of Monday's plan 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.880 will be. Are there any sort of community agreements that 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.520 we want to that we want to uplift and highlights 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.280 so that we can all sort of know and be 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.480 on the same page and move in a similar way together. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.040 And those could be I don't want to speak for 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:08.960 what there because those will be determined in the Spokes Council, 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.800 but the sort of like there's been questions, I guess lastly, 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.840 there's been questions about well, what does that actually look 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:21.320 like to maintain a level of non violence whatever that 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.400 might actually mean in a space right, So, like I'm 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.320 sure a lot of folks listening, and myself included, probably 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.320 all of us here have witnessed you know, for lack 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.920 of a better word, peace policing or something to that effect. Right, 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.359 Our wager with this, our goal with this, is the 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.879 activation of affinity groups of crews that roll up together 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.440 who enter into this sort of like consensual horizontal decision 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.240 making space where community agreements are explicitly laid out in 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.240 the days leading up to the action. Those specific affinity 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:53.439 groups can hold each other accountable to those norms in 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.639 whatever way that they want, Right, you and your homies 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:01.480 holding it down for one another. In like what we're 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:06.040 calling for, right is non violence. Like that we can debate, 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.760 we can have a heavy political debate about like the 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.399 meaning of violence and the meaning of non violence. But 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.919 like the language of non violence has a rich history 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.160 in American social justice movements, right, Like that term has 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.600 meaning to a lot of people. And that's actually what's 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:24.040 being advocated for on this day, but only on that day. Right, Like, 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:25.880 So what we're talking about is like in this specific 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.560 space that we're going to like create together, this is 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.560 what we're doing, what we're calling for in this moment 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.280 in time, in this specific geography. If people have other 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.439 ways to engage in other spaces or at other times. 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.680 One of the hallmarks of the movement is that by 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.160 all means they should right. That's what's kept this movement 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:44.439 strong and this is no different. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.080 Yeah, I'd like to add that there's definitely a precedent 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.600 for this within the movement. There were probably a number 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.320 of events like this, but this was the one that 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:55.200 I was there for. 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.600 There was a march a rally into March at. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.920 The MLK Center during the March Week of Action, and 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.919 it was put on by Community Movement Builders, which is 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:13.040 a great group, all black group organizing in specifically black 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.600 working class communities in Atlanta, led by Kamal Franklin, and 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.919 he put out a statement before this rally in March saying, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:27.119 you know, attention, comrades, this particular event is going to 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.679 be a low risk event. We've decided that is what 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.040 we need today. We've done a lot of work in 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.520 the community getting community members to come out to this 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:38.960 who maybe haven't been that involved in the past. A 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:42.760 lot of older working class black people are going to 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.160 be there. Please don't do anything that's going to attract 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.960 extra attention from the cops. Don't do anything spicy, you know, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:52.320 don't break windows if they tell you to stay on 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.520 the sidewalk, stay on the sidewalk. Not that there's anything 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.919 wrong with those tactics right in general, And he went 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.280 out of his way to say, we do not denounce 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:02.520 these tactics in general. 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:04.919 It is just not the right thing to do today 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:06.480 at this particular thing. 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:10.520 And everybody pretty much listened, and everybody bathed themselves, and 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.280 I thought it was a really cool example of you know, 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.760 the respect, the mutual respect across different different corners of 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:18.400 this movement. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.879 Yeah, I've definitely been thinking about that action in relation 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.440 to this, to this upcoming kind of event. Yeah, I 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.520 think it was on the Thursday of the fifth Week 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.159 of Action, a few days after there was like the 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.040 mass arrests at at the music festival, because I mean 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.159 there they were in the in the in the lead 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.640 up to that Community Movement Builders march, there were very 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:45.040 similar questions around like, yeah, like who's going to enforce nonviolence, 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:46.879 which really is kind of a silly question, and that 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.200 there is you know, there is precedent absolutely of people 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.320 like peace policing and even turning over people to the cops. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.720 That that that that is a precedent, but in this case, 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.960 like you know, these specific people and community movement builders 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.000 have been pretty down with the more militant aspects of 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.199 this movement for years, and you know, in the in 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.199 the hours before that action, you know, people sought and 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.840 gained more clarification on like no, like we're not gonna 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:15.960 like fuck you over, but like, hey, we're trying to 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.680 like bring our grandmas and our kids to this. And 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.879 not that the police need any excuse to you know, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.520 attack people, but this is you know, it's this is 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:26.800 the thing that we're planning, this is what this is 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:28.680 what we're trying to do. You don't have to come 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.159 if you don't want to, you know, And it's it 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:34.040 is that type of like mutual understanding and agreement that 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.959 actions like this kind of rest on. Because I certainly 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.480 know that there's there's probably a good deal of forest 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:42.920 defenders who you know, would like to jump at the 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:46.160 opportunity to do you know, spicy stuff on the site, 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:48.520 because that's that's a you know, from their perspective, that's 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.000 a very uh, it's a very attractive proposal, which you 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.600 know also as president, in these types of big mass mobilizations, 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.800 there's there's certainly aspects of that that kind of intersect 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.800