1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Cool Media. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis. This 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 2: is the show where we talk about how everything kind 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: of feels like it's falling apart and how we can 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: perhaps sometimes put some of that back together. In about 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: a month's time, there's going to be what's being labeled 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: a quote unquote mass nonviolent direct action converging on the 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: Cop City construction site in Atlanta, Georgia. Now, a few 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: weeks ago I interviewed the two people going around the 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 2: country giving the block Cop City Speaking Tour in preparation 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: for this upcoming action next month in Atlanta. Like always, 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: the opinions of those interviewed on the show don't necessarily 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 2: reflect the views of the show or myself. And with 14 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 2: this action in particular, there has been quite the variety 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: of opinions regarding its risk level and its ideological and 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 2: tactical validity. But the action is going to happen. It 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: is going to take place on November thirteenth, no matter 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: you know some people disagreeing with aspects of it or 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: having concerns about aspects of it, it is it is 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: going to take place. So my interest in putting out 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: this episode is to have a very open and clear 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: discussion regarding some of the questions people have about this 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: quote unquote nonviolent action, and also provide enough informations that 24 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: people can make their own informed decision regarding what's going 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: to happen next November. So with that, here is my 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: conversation with Sam and Jamie from the Block Coop City 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: speaking tour. Joining me today is Sam from Block Cop 28 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: City and Jamie Peck. Both of you have been going 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: around the country I think it's around seventy cities right now, 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: doing a speaking tour to talk about this upcoming action 31 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: in November to block cop City. Thanks for coming on, guys, 32 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: No problem, Yeah, thanks for having us. So I assume 33 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: anyone who's listening to this is already familiar with cop City, 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,559 Speaker 2: whether through their own their own keeping up with the news, 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: or even if they're just even if they just listen 36 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 2: to the show. We have covered cop City quite extensively 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: the past like two years. So let's talk about this 38 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: this kind of upcoming action, because it's very different than 39 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: kind of the previous mobilizations that we've seen, which have 40 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 2: taken form as like weeks of action. We had one 41 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 2: last last June. We had one the previous march. So 42 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 2: what's different about this new upcoming three day kind of mobilization. 43 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: So yeah, obviously it's taking place on one day instead 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 3: of a whole week, and there's gonna be two days 45 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: of nonviolent direct action training leading up to the day 46 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 3: of which would be really important to make sure that 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: everybody feels prepared for what we're about to do. It's 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: different in a few different ways. I feel like this 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 3: is a passover Mansuri the four questions. 50 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: How has this action different from all other actions? 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 3: Well, it's gonna be like a real centralization of efforts, 52 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 3: right because other weeks of action have been a little 53 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: more diffuse, a little more spread out, And here we're 54 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 3: sort of bringing to bear the full power of all 55 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: the people coming from all over the country, this in 56 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 3: the same place at the same time, because there's safety 57 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 3: in numbers and there's power in numbers. And I feel 58 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: like the June Week of Action, people were kind of 59 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: going all over the place, not. 60 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: Really sure what to do when. 61 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 3: And I talked to a lot of people who were like, 62 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: just tell us what to do, tell us what the 63 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: move is on this particular day, and we'll be there 64 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: And there is no one to do that, which you 65 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: know is sometimes a hazard of sort of anarchistic movements. 66 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: Right, nobody's in charge. 67 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: And we're not in charge right now either, I should 68 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 3: say everybody is going to have a chance to have 69 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: input on the final plan in a thing called spokes 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: councils that we're doing the weekend before the action. 71 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think we're. 72 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: Picking a lane, and we're doing a thing, and this 73 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 3: particular lane has been chosen for a number of different reasons. Right. 74 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: The movement is in an interesting place. 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 3: Right now, where more people than ever know about cop City, 76 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: more people than ever are opposed to cop City, as 77 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 3: evidenced by the one hundred and twenty thousand petition signatures 78 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 3: that the referendum campaign was able to collect to actually 79 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 3: get a referendum on the ballot to let the people 80 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 3: of Atlanta actually vote on whether or not they want 81 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: this thing built. Of course, the city is throwing every 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: trick in the book at them because they do not 83 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 3: want to let the people vote. But on the other hand, right, 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: lots of people know about it, lots of people oppose it, 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 3: But the number of people who are willing and able 86 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 3: to show up and do direct action against it has dwindled, 87 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 3: and that's for a few different reasons. Right, there's been 88 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: so much repression of the movement. One hundred people at 89 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: least are now facing charges. We've got people facing domestic 90 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 3: terrorism charges, We've got people facing RICO charges, just like 91 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 3: an absurd overreach of the state, even according to mainstream 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 3: legal scholars. So we really need a way for people 93 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: to feel empowered doing direct action again. And this is 94 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: what we've settled upon as a solution, and maybe Sam 95 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: can take it from there. 96 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 4: Sure, thanks, yeah, to build upon that, I suppose. Right, 97 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 4: you were sort of asking why is it that less 98 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: people than ever are taking embodied action in the forest, 99 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 4: And one of those reasons also is people have been 100 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,679 Speaker 4: directing attention to other initiatives. Right, So the one hundred 101 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 4: and twenty thousand petition signatures is gathered by something like 102 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 4: three thousand volunteers. There's all sorts of different parties throughout 103 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 4: the movement who have been trying, you know, just another 104 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 4: diverse tactic. Right, This movement has seen incredibly diverse tactics 105 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 4: over the last two years, all sort of moving in 106 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 4: unison with one another. And we sort of see block 107 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: Cop City as just another type of tactic in a 108 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 4: larger repertoire of a toolkit. You know, we haven't actually 109 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 4: had an instance of over a thousand people doing embodied 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: direct action in the forest, like that's never occurred in 111 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 4: this campaign. We've had a lot of people during some 112 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 4: weeks of Action, but this is a little bit different 113 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 4: in the scope. It's a little bit different in flavor. 114 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 4: I liked what you were saying, Jamie about the sort 115 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 4: of like a lot of other sort of convergences in 116 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 4: Atlanta that were called weeks of action where we're distributed, 117 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 4: we're very autonomously organized, and we're sort of treading a 118 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 4: line between like the main sort of organizing style. You know, 119 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: we're on tour right now, right calling in from Vancouver 120 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 4: and you're over in Maine, vast continental wide tour. One 121 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 4: of the primary functions of this tour is like the 122 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 4: activation of affinity groups to sort of catalyze and come 123 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 4: down to Atlanta so that crews can sort of have 124 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 4: the confidence of flexibility, the warmth and the revelry that 125 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 4: comes with moving through space with your homies, with your commons, 126 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: while at the same time there's a very large cohort 127 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 4: of various logistical teams trying to figure out various programming events, 128 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 4: the locations of these trainings, how to feed people, how 129 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: to house people, how to keep people entertained, things like that. 130 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 4: So it's I think the scope is larger, potentially hitting 131 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 4: eighty cities if we can finalize a few final requests 132 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: and the sort of the action itself, right, so, as 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 4: Jamie was saying, is sort of confined to one day, right, 134 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 4: but it's a four day convergence. So the action itself 135 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 4: is being our goal is to sort of carve out 136 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 4: of space that day of on the morning of Monday, 137 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,239 Speaker 4: November thirteenth, which thousands of people can take embodied action 138 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 4: together in the forest. 139 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: Again, when you say like embodied action, this thing has 140 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: been advertised as using quote unquote strategic nonviolence as opposed 141 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: to like moralistic non violence, like where you like oppose 142 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: violent direct action on principle. Instead, this has been trying 143 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: to employ nonviolence as a strategic action. Do you want 144 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about kind of how that's 145 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: being envisioned, because I know there's certainly, even in Atlanta, 146 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: there's a lot of people who are either skeptical or 147 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: confused or fear that there's like other safety issues with 148 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: within action as public as this, right, because you're trying 149 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: to get thousands of people to show up, So this 150 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: is this very publicly announced thing, which also gives the 151 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: police a big heads up. So I know there's been 152 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: a lot of you know, there's there's a lot of questions, 153 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: and I feel like, you know, the this this aspect 154 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: of non violence is a very interesting one because the 155 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 2: Defend the Atlanta Forest movement has been I think very 156 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: historically defined by you know, very spontaneous, fiery acts of sabotage. 157 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: So I guess, yeah, just that's I want to kind 158 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: of I'm interested in this kind of strategic non violence aspect. 159 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that it's been defined by these 160 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 3: strategic acts of sabotage, which, by the way, I don't 161 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 3: consider violence against private property to do violence. 162 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: I tend to apply that to human beings only. 163 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: But yeah, we certainly we don't disavow violence. We don't 164 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 3: about any tactics in this fight. I mean that that 165 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: highest level of violence that any activists have even been 166 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 3: accused of is probably about the same level that you'd 167 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: find if you've ever had a Roman candle fight with 168 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 3: your friends. Right, you're shooting fireworks in each other's general direction. 169 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 3: Obviously that wasn't happening for fun when folks did it 170 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 3: in the activism world. But yeah, why non violence? 171 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 4: Why? 172 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: Now? 173 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: It's a great question, and I think a lot of 174 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 3: it has to do with responding to the charges on 175 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 3: the table. A lot of it has to do with 176 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: wanting to create an easier on ramp for people and 177 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: something that can be openly promoted because, you know, for 178 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 3: better or for worse, the media has at times portrayed 179 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 3: certain corners of the movement as these like scary eco 180 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 3: terrorist and you know, when people are doing a higher 181 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 3: risk action, it's inherently something that you can't really go 182 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 3: around the country talking about and engaging groups of people 183 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 3: that you don't know. So, you know, we wanted to 184 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 3: strike this balance, right and what are we doing? Well, yes, 185 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 3: technically it's a crime. So was what Martin Luther King 186 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 3: did in the nineteen sixties, And we wanted to draw 187 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 3: on that legacy, right, because the civil rights movement has 188 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: a deep, deep legacy in Atlanta itself. So like we've 189 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 3: had rallies at the MLK Center and now so okay, 190 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: we're doing a thing. Right, there's a thousand people. There, 191 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 3: there's children, there's clergy, it's in broad daylight. The state 192 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: is sort of caught in a buyant now because Okay, 193 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: it could arrest one thousand people in broad daylight and 194 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: charge them with domestic terrorism. That would create a political crisis, 195 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 3: and that would be an international outrage, and I think 196 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 3: it would also be fairly unprecedented. It's possible that that 197 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 3: would have although I don't think that's what's going to happen. 198 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: There was recently a similar kind of direct action on 199 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: the construction site that the Faith Coalition against Cop City did. 200 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: Actually five people chain themselves to the construction equipment and 201 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: they were arrested. They're all out on misdemeanors now, which 202 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: is what you usually get charged with for a protest 203 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 3: of that nature. Right, So, yeah, the state could hypothetically 204 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 3: arrest a thousand people and charge them with terrorism. That 205 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: would be an international outrage, that would be a political crisis. 206 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: On the other hand, the state could do and there 207 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 3: are signs that has been pulling back, right because what 208 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: I just said, if the state charges people with misdemeanors 209 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: for doing the exact same thing that people were recently 210 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: charged with terrorism or hit with RICO charges for doing 211 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: that will also serve to further delegitimize these charges for 212 00:11:52,840 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 3: the people already facing them. 213 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 2: Mass arrests are certainly a pretty big concern for people 214 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: when they're deciding if they want to go to such 215 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 2: an action. And I mean, because this action is happening, 216 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 2: and you know, one of the most I would say, 217 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: it's probably in like the top five most police areas 218 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: of the country right now is in the South River Forest, 219 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 2: is specifically the cop City construction site. It's certainly a 220 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: concern a lot people have, especially when you know, we're 221 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 2: talking about possibly police arresting hundreds of people trying to 222 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 2: kettle them in the site. It's it's certainly a very 223 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: very valid concern to have. 224 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: I'll also add a little bit to that. So for me, 225 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 4: the question of like mass arrest is actually maybe not 226 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 4: even in the top five reasons why I'm interested in 227 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 4: doing this campaign. I think it obviously is a possibility, right, 228 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 4: I would say the goal of this action for me 229 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: at least is not to get arrested. Yeah, obviously, Like 230 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 4: you know, many civil disobedience campaigns, like that's an explicit 231 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 4: part of their understanding. Yea, like a lot of change. 232 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, A lot of like the extinction rebellion kind 233 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: of tactics, even some of them more kind of Earth 234 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: first tactics kind of revolve around being arrested as a 235 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 2: part of of of the tactic itself. And there's certainly 236 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: been a lot of pushback towards that type of like 237 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 2: self sacrificial tactic here in Atlanta the past few years, 238 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: and kind of in the general kind of anarchistic mill 239 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: you that's kind of been like stewing that you know, 240 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: is is this kind of self sacrifice of being arrested 241 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 2: actually useful in any way? And I'm sure that is 242 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 2: part of part of some people's thought process going into 243 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: this is is you know, if there's a decent chance 244 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: I am going to get arrested just for walking onto 245 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: a site, is is it worth it? But sorry you 246 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: were I realized I was interrupted you and went on 247 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: a short, short rant. 248 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 4: No, that's okay, it's a it's a it's a very 249 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 4: important issue a lot of us, right, So yeah, like 250 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 4: sort of as I was saying like that, the goal 251 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 4: of this act is action is not to get arrested. 252 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 4: But obviously, as you were saying, like we're waltzing onto 253 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 4: the fucking sorry cops city construction site. It's a very 254 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 4: good chance, to say the least. And but for me, 255 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 4: the other interesting parts about this is right is embodied 256 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 4: action in the forest has just not felt possible for 257 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 4: months and months and months. There hasn't been an occupation 258 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: of the forest since the cops killed tort in January 259 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 4: of this year, except for a couple of days during 260 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 4: the March Week of Action, But largely speaking, in the 261 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 4: forests has been held by big scary men with big 262 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 4: scary guns for many months now, and the horizons feel 263 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 4: incredibly obscured. You know. It's it's it's very unclear what 264 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 4: the movement could do right now, that could that could 265 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 4: jump start our energies, that could serve as a container 266 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 4: for the thousands and thousands and thousands of disillusion and 267 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 4: disenfranchised folks who have been working tirelessly at other methods 268 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 4: of change as well. Right so, our sort of theory 269 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 4: is the most powerful action that we can do is 270 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: one that's sort of defined by our by our power 271 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: in numbers, by our power in our unity, by our 272 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 4: power in sticking together in order. So for me, The 273 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 4: interesting question isn't even necessarily what happens on November thirteenth 274 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 4: of this year, the day of the action. For me, 275 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 4: the interesting question is like, what new horizons does this 276 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 4: open up in the movement? How we can reactivate and 277 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 4: recatalyze our energy and understand and prove to ourselves in 278 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 4: a collective fashion that embodied action in the forest is 279 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 4: indeed possible at a math level, and this actually sort 280 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 4: of seeks to advance the energy and the movement to 281 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 4: a new height that hasn't actually occurred. What's going to 282 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 4: happen is more people than ever will be in the 283 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 4: forest together at the same time, and that right now 284 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 4: is precisely what's needed in this moment, and the only 285 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 4: way to do that as we're doing this publicly and 286 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 4: above ground one to help aid in that sort of 287 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 4: facilitation of just a numbers game, right, and then two 288 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 4: is like, we want people to be able to make 289 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 4: an informed and consensual decision on how they want to engage, 290 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 4: and the only way that they can do that is 291 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 4: for them to actually know what the heck is going 292 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 4: to happen. Right, So we're going around and being incredibly 293 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 4: clear about what the plan is and how the finalized 294 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 4: version of the plan will be, as Jamie sort of 295 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 4: opened with, discussed democratically and horizontally at these in person 296 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 4: outdoor COVID Safe Spokes Council meetings on Saturday, November eleventh 297 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 4: and Sunday, November twelfth down there in Atlanta, where all 298 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 4: these affinity groups from around the country, around the state, 299 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 4: and around the city of Atlanta will sort of elect 300 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 4: one of their home needs to go to this larger 301 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 4: general assembly type thing that will then sort of democratically 302 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 4: and horizontally determine what the actual specifics of Monday's plan 303 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 4: will be. Are there any sort of community agreements that 304 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 4: we want to that we want to uplift and highlights 305 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 4: so that we can all sort of know and be 306 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 4: on the same page and move in a similar way together. 307 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 4: And those could be I don't want to speak for 308 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 4: what there because those will be determined in the Spokes Council, 309 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 4: but the sort of like there's been questions, I guess lastly, 310 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 4: there's been questions about well, what does that actually look 311 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 4: like to maintain a level of non violence whatever that 312 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 4: might actually mean in a space right, So, like I'm 313 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 4: sure a lot of folks listening, and myself included, probably 314 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 4: all of us here have witnessed you know, for lack 315 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 4: of a better word, peace policing or something to that effect. Right, 316 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 4: Our wager with this, our goal with this, is the 317 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: activation of affinity groups of crews that roll up together 318 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 4: who enter into this sort of like consensual horizontal decision 319 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 4: making space where community agreements are explicitly laid out in 320 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 4: the days leading up to the action. Those specific affinity 321 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 4: groups can hold each other accountable to those norms in 322 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 4: whatever way that they want, Right, you and your homies 323 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 4: holding it down for one another. In like what we're 324 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 4: calling for, right is non violence. Like that we can debate, 325 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 4: we can have a heavy political debate about like the 326 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 4: meaning of violence and the meaning of non violence. But 327 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 4: like the language of non violence has a rich history 328 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: in American social justice movements, right, Like that term has 329 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 4: meaning to a lot of people. And that's actually what's 330 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 4: being advocated for on this day, but only on that day. Right, Like, 331 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 4: So what we're talking about is like in this specific 332 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 4: space that we're going to like create together, this is 333 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 4: what we're doing, what we're calling for in this moment 334 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 4: in time, in this specific geography. If people have other 335 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 4: ways to engage in other spaces or at other times. 336 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 4: One of the hallmarks of the movement is that by 337 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 4: all means they should right. That's what's kept this movement 338 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 4: strong and this is no different. 339 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd like to add that there's definitely a precedent 340 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 3: for this within the movement. There were probably a number 341 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 3: of events like this, but this was the one that 342 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 3: I was there for. 343 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: There was a march a rally into March at. 344 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 3: The MLK Center during the March Week of Action, and 345 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 3: it was put on by Community Movement Builders, which is 346 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 3: a great group, all black group organizing in specifically black 347 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: working class communities in Atlanta, led by Kamal Franklin, and 348 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 3: he put out a statement before this rally in March saying, 349 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 3: you know, attention, comrades, this particular event is going to 350 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 3: be a low risk event. We've decided that is what 351 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: we need today. We've done a lot of work in 352 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: the community getting community members to come out to this 353 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 3: who maybe haven't been that involved in the past. A 354 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 3: lot of older working class black people are going to 355 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 3: be there. Please don't do anything that's going to attract 356 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 3: extra attention from the cops. Don't do anything spicy, you know, 357 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 3: don't break windows if they tell you to stay on 358 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 3: the sidewalk, stay on the sidewalk. Not that there's anything 359 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 3: wrong with those tactics right in general, And he went 360 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: out of his way to say, we do not denounce 361 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 3: these tactics in general. 362 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: It is just not the right thing to do today 363 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: at this particular thing. 364 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: And everybody pretty much listened, and everybody bathed themselves, and 365 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: I thought it was a really cool example of you know, 366 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 3: the respect, the mutual respect across different different corners of 367 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 3: this movement. 368 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've definitely been thinking about that action in relation 369 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: to this, to this upcoming kind of event. Yeah, I 370 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: think it was on the Thursday of the fifth Week 371 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: of Action, a few days after there was like the 372 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: mass arrests at at the music festival, because I mean 373 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 2: there they were in the in the in the lead 374 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 2: up to that Community Movement Builders march, there were very 375 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 2: similar questions around like, yeah, like who's going to enforce nonviolence, 376 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 2: which really is kind of a silly question, and that 377 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: there is you know, there is precedent absolutely of people 378 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 2: like peace policing and even turning over people to the cops. 379 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 2: That that that that is a precedent, but in this case, 380 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 2: like you know, these specific people and community movement builders 381 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: have been pretty down with the more militant aspects of 382 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 2: this movement for years, and you know, in the in 383 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 2: the hours before that action, you know, people sought and 384 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: gained more clarification on like no, like we're not gonna 385 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: like fuck you over, but like, hey, we're trying to 386 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: like bring our grandmas and our kids to this. And 387 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: not that the police need any excuse to you know, 388 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: attack people, but this is you know, it's this is 389 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: the thing that we're planning, this is what this is 390 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do. You don't have to come 391 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 2: if you don't want to, you know, And it's it 392 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: is that type of like mutual understanding and agreement that 393 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 2: actions like this kind of rest on. Because I certainly 394 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 2: know that there's there's probably a good deal of forest 395 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: defenders who you know, would like to jump at the 396 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 2: opportunity to do you know, spicy stuff on the site, 397 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: because that's that's a you know, from their perspective, that's 398 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: a very uh, it's a very attractive proposal, which you 399 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: know also as president, in these types of big mass mobilizations, 400 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: there's there's certainly aspects of that that kind of intersect 401 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: with this especially. You know, one concern people may have 402 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: is that this is being pushed as like, hey, we're 403 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: you know, we're going to all these cities, We're trying 404 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: to mobilize all these people, get a thousand people, we're 405 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 2: all planning this thing together. There's a certain risk that 406 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 2: that type of language could be turned against any of 407 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: the possibly hundreds of people arrested on March thirteenth and 408 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: rule these into and have that role in to the 409 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 2: reco charges that people are facing in Georgia. Now, I 410 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: also kind of, from my understanding, part of this action 411 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 2: is to kind of showcase the kind of absurdity of 412 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: these reco charges by by demonstrating this is like very 413 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 2: typical civil rights kind of you know, social movement organizing. 414 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 2: But I think those two things I think can actually 415 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: coexist where yes, this is very typical civil rights organizing. 416 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 2: And also the state specifically, you know, the state that 417 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: you know in Atlanta have been have have not cared 418 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: at all, is very is very willing to use these 419 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: to use charges like this as a chilling tactic to 420 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: suppress any future like protest or mobilization against cop City. 421 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: So this is like, I think one other dynamic that 422 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: people are certainly thinking about in terms of, you know, 423 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: deciding if they want to participate in something like this. 424 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, above all, one of the primary functions of repression, 425 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 4: right is to scare us into inaction, right, And in 426 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 4: the face of that, the worst thing that we can 427 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 4: do is power away and shrink. And precisely, this type 428 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: of mass mobilization is the ultimate show of solidarity with 429 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 4: all people who have been swept up into various trumped 430 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 4: up legal charges related to this movement. And and also 431 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 4: there's you know, throughout the history of American social movements, 432 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 4: there's there's there's president after president after precedent of people 433 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 4: organizing their communities and their friends that they care about 434 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 4: to travel to a place of you know, of injustice 435 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 4: and stand in solidarity together. Right. This is like, this 436 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 4: isn't a classic organizing tactic. It's nothing particularly new. It's 437 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 4: the first time that I've been involved in sort of 438 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 4: this scale of organizing and this sort of specific flavor. 439 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 4: I think with any action, right, just because we call 440 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 4: it non violence doesn't mean that violence won't occur on 441 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 4: the site. Specifically, maybe at the hands of the police 442 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 4: or other law enforcement agencies. Right, just because we call 443 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 4: it non violence doesn't mean that there isn't risk involved. Right, 444 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 4: with any action that we go to, there's risk involved. 445 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 4: But you know, our understanding is that the risk of 446 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 4: inaction far outweighs the risk of action in this moment. 447 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, because they're going to build that thing if nobody 448 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: does anything. They're trying to build it right now. And 449 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: what's going to happen after that, Well, there's going to 450 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 3: be hundreds and hundreds more cops on the streets, trained 451 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 3: in all the latest militarized technological ways to you know, 452 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 3: oppress and terrorize civilian populations and put down the next 453 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 3: big popular uprising, which they've connected it with very explicitly. 454 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: So we should be thinking about it in that way too. 455 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 4: And you know, we're a generation without victories, right. It 456 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 4: just sort of feels like we I don't want to 457 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 4: minimize real tangible wins that do indeed happen, but largely speaking, 458 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 4: it feels like we're a generation without victories. We need 459 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 4: to win social struggles, and tens of thousands of people 460 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 4: from around the world are watching the defend the Atlanta 461 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 4: Forest movement hoping that it wins. Right, So I sort 462 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 4: of asked myself what would have happened if Standing Rock 463 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 4: would have won? Right, Like Standing Rock raised the bar 464 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 4: for what it means to resist a pipeline en camp 465 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 4: in an unseated indigenous territory in this country. It raised 466 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 4: the bar for that right. So the next time that 467 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 4: invariably rules around, hopefully we can begin from that ploy 468 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 4: that point. But the pipeline is built right, oil is 469 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 4: flowing through it, oil is leaking through it. It didn't 470 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 4: win that element of the work, and that's why it's 471 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 4: important that we have victories. And that's why you know, 472 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 4: there's so much, so many people pouring so much energy 473 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 4: into the Defend the Atlanta Forest Stock cop City, No 474 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 4: Hollywoodystopia campaign because we know it's winnable, but we need 475 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 4: to ratchet up. And this is precisely the sort of 476 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 4: level of accessible but also drastically heightened level of ratcheting 477 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 4: up of our intensity of our collective power together that's 478 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 4: possible in this moment. 479 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: One thing that Sam you kind of mentioned earlier in 480 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 2: this conversation is that this plan is really just one 481 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: spear in the many. That's trying to put cracks in 482 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 2: the facade of the Copsity project, and this action is 483 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: really just being put in relation to a whole bunch 484 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: of other things that could have happened that would eventually 485 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 2: lead to cop City being stopped. I think that's a 486 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 2: really important aspect to kind of clarify, because you know, 487 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 2: there is some detractors who are you know, framing this 488 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: action as being like the only you know, path forward 489 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: that organizers are wanting to do, and I don't know, 490 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 2: this is this movement's been very very based on people 491 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: taking their own spontaneous action, and they're being not just 492 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 2: one strategy, not just one plan. There's always a big, 493 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: a big, you know, litany of things that could be 494 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 2: going on, which all kind of starts to put pressure 495 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: on this, on this house of cards, so to speak. 496 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 4: There's a political crisis, a bruin in Atlanta that has 497 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 4: been for a very long time. Right, Andre Dickens, for 498 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 4: some reason, has put all of his chips into this thing, 499 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 4: and he is like hated for it. Right. The Atlanta 500 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 4: Police Foundation has taken out millions and millions and millions 501 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 4: of dollars of loans to build this thing. If they 502 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 4: fail to build cop City, which they will. Then they 503 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 4: will default on those loans and they might go bankrupt. 504 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 4: So this entire project is essentially a house of cards, 505 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 4: and it doesn't really feel that way because it's being 506 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 4: buttressed on all sides by corporations, by crony politicians, by 507 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 4: big men with big guns, you know. But they're doing 508 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 4: so precisely because it's fragile, precisely because it's a house 509 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 4: of cards, and there's zero buy in from the community 510 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 4: and from people and standing in solidarity around the world 511 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: for this project. What could be a fatal death blow 512 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 4: to this movement is a mass quantitative uptick in the 513 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 4: number of people taking action in the forest, and that 514 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 4: would be a new and novel blow to this thing 515 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 4: that it hasn't really seen. 516 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: There really is a battle happening over the like who 517 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 3: gets to use this language of social justice and who 518 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: gets to draw on the legacy of the civil rights movement? Right, 519 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: And there are two really competing narratives right now. You 520 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: have the stop Coop City movement, which has a pretty 521 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 3: complete analysis, i would say, of the ways that racial 522 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 3: oppression and class exploitation power American capitalism, right, and the 523 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 3: ways that copcity feed into and enable. 524 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: Those things with the help of the bourgeois state. 525 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 3: And then you have the cynical take from the City 526 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 3: of Atlanta and from the political class. I'm looking at 527 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 3: a post that just I think just was posted by 528 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 3: the City of Atlanta Twitter account. It says Mayor Andre 529 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 3: for Atlanta welcomed guests to the March on Washington's sixtieth 530 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 3: Dream Youth panel at North. 531 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: Atlanta High School. 532 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: Mayor Dickens highlighted the significance of mlk's nonviolence movement and 533 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: shared his hopes that our youth will work together to 534 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: fulfill Mlk's dream hashtag now sixty. So there we have 535 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 3: a cynical attempt to harness the legacy of the civil 536 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 3: rights movement, right, because what the fuck. 537 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: Is he even talking about? 538 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 3: Like, how are you going to work together to fulfill 539 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: Mlk's dream of you know, freedom equality, Uh, not just 540 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 3: in terms of who gets to buy things at. 541 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: A particular store, but like. 542 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: True economic power and equality for everyone, especially black proletarians 543 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 3: who have served a very specific and important role in 544 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 3: American capitalism. Right, what is he talking about if not 545 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 3: like we're doing exactly what MLK used to do. This 546 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 3: is a non violent act of civil disobedience. So what 547 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 3: could he what else could he mean by that? Does 548 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 3: he mean voting for Democrats? Does he mean, you know, 549 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: working for NGOs? Does he mean joining. 550 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: This political class? 551 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: Because I think like it actually makes me feel better 552 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 3: that the people of Atlanta seem to know that this 553 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 3: is bullshit. Despite all of the propaganda that's been coming 554 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: out from from the state and from the you know, 555 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: the bourgeois media and the mainstream press that just kind 556 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 3: of uncritically reports the things that the mayor says, the 557 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: things that the cops say. The propaganda isn't working. One 558 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand people signed this petition in a 559 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: city of five hundred thousand. I mean, I think they 560 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: can clearly see who's really carrying on this this project 561 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 3: of social justice and equality. 562 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: Great. I always I always love checking up on the 563 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: City of Atlanta Twitter account because at least once a 564 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: day they post some absolutely absurd thing. I guess because 565 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: the last thing I think it's probably worth mentioning is 566 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 2: that like a big part of this plan is trying 567 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: to catalyze affinity groups to come to the city, you know, 568 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: with you know, specifically with the idea of them participating 569 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 2: in this in this action on thirteenth, but you know, 570 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 2: nothing is stopping affinity groups from pursuing other forms of 571 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: direct action during the for the four or so days 572 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: they might be in town. I think it's you know, 573 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 2: a big, a large part of this movement's been very 574 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 2: based on like self determination and radical autonomy, whether that's 575 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: that includes your ability to participate in you know, big 576 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 2: big collective mas, big collective mass actions, or just having 577 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 2: fun with your friends around the city, like what happened 578 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: near the end of the last week of action where 579 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: eight motorcycles mysteriously vanished from the material plane. 580 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 4: So that. 581 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 2: We're we're about a month away from this. If people 582 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: are interested in want to kind of learn more information 583 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 2: about this proposal, where can where can people find as 584 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: said information? 585 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for that. We're currently in the middle of 586 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 4: our Wei Lani worldwide mass action, speaking to our eighty 587 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 4: cities from from Portland main to Portland, Oregon, Vancouver to Tijuana, 588 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 4: and everywhere in between. Jamie and I will also be 589 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 4: co hosting a zoom tour stop on Saturday, October fourteenth 590 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 4: at three pm Eastern time. Check out Blochcopcity dot org 591 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 4: for information on those tour stops, including the ones on Zoom. 592 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 4: There's also going to be a schedule for the weekends 593 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 4: festivities that is coming up quite soon, which could include 594 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 4: several cultural events, welcoming ceremonies to in person spokes, council meetings, 595 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,479 Speaker 4: general direct action, non violent direct action trainings, as well 596 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 4: as other ways to spend time quality time together down 597 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 4: in the forest leading up to the mass action on 598 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 4: the morning of Monday, November thirteenth. If people have resources 599 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 4: they would like to donate to the movement, whether that 600 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 4: be in the form of in person housing. Has helped 601 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 4: with transportation, help with collective cooking processes, help with social 602 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 4: media outreach, journalistic outreach, help with just thinking through this 603 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 4: thing right and how we can make it as empowering 604 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 4: and successful as possible and help sort of allow this 605 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 4: to once again raise the bar for what it means 606 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 4: to fight against deforestation, to fight against over policing in 607 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 4: black and brown communities around the country, to fight against 608 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 4: economic injustice, and the attack on dignified forms of like 609 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,959 Speaker 4: cross social movements and regions. You can contact us via 610 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 4: our contact form on the web page which you can 611 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 4: find on Blockopsity dot org, slash contact and there's a 612 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 4: contact form to fill out. There's also a Gmail block 613 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 4: coopsityat gmail dot com. So if any of those things 614 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 4: are if you want to figure out how to plug in, 615 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 4: feel free to direct your correspondence to one of those channels. 616 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, blockcopcity dot org. You can watch our hype video. 617 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: You can read our invitation to action. Uh, you can. 618 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 3: Well, the tour might be mostly over by then, but 619 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 3: you can look at where the tour has been. Lots 620 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 3: of good information on that website, and there's also lots 621 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 3: of ways to get in touch. So yeah, hope to 622 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 3: see you all in November. 623 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 4: They you're cordially invited to activate an affinity group. Come 624 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 4: down to November between Friday Veterans Day November tenth to 625 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 4: Monday November thirteenth, and then also it's important to note 626 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 4: that probably on the fourteenth and the fifteenth there'll be 627 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,959 Speaker 4: collective days of healing and anti repression work that will 628 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 4: be happening city wide as well. 629 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,760 Speaker 2: That does it for us today on the show. Once again, 630 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 2: thanks to Sam and Jamie for talking with me about 631 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 2: this action. Hopefully you have a little bit more information 632 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 2: about this than you had going into it. You can 633 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 2: certainly find more information about this action and a variety 634 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 2: of other opinions on the scenes. Do Noblog's website and 635 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 2: other kind of anarchistic news websites if you want to 636 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: go seeking out those other opinions. See you on the 637 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: other side. 638 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 639 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 640 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 2: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 641 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 642 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: Listen to podcasts. 643 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 2: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 644 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 2: monthly at Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. 645 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:15,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.